Sounds like a plan. Casmir recording on my sister. All right. Good evening everyone and welcome to the June 16, 2025 regular meeting of the Township of Montlair Planning Board. In accordance with the New Jersey Open
Public Meetings Act, adequate notice of this meeting has been provided by posting a copy of the notice on the first floor of the municipal building and by sending a copy to the newspaper designated by the township for notices. This meeting is being broadcast live on channel 34 and is streaming live and
will be available on demand on YouTube. This meeting is a quasi judicial proceeding, meaning that the board has powers and procedures resembling a court of law, and we're obligated to objectively determine facts and draw conclusions from them in order to provide the basis of an official action.
Any questions or comments must be limited to the issues of what the board may legally consider in reaching a decision and the decorum appropriate to a judicial to a judicial hearing must be maintained at all times. Fire exits are to my right, which is your left, and also at the back of the room where you
entered. As to the order of the evening, each application hearing begins with the applicant or their attorney given o giving an overview of the application and the variances that are required, if any. We then hear from any expert witnesses. The applicant may have to
help explain the application and why variances are required. The board members may ask questions of the applicant at that time, the attorney, and also of their expert witnesses. If you're a member of the interested public but not a witness in the case, you will have two opportunities to speak for each
of the applications. At the end of each witness's testimony, you'll be given the opportunity to ask the witness questions about his or her testimony. And that's not the time to tell the board what you think of the application. That'll actually come later. Um, when you're when you're asking questions of the
witnesses, um, you'll have to come to the front of the room, give us your name and address, come up to the lect turn here, and then ask your questions related to the witness's testimony only. After the applicant's witnesses and any objector or objector witnesses have been heard, members of the audience will have
their second opportunity to step forward. And at that time, you may express your opinions, positive or negative, about the application. And generally, comments are limited to three minutes per person. And then after the completion of the applicant's case and the public comment,
the public hearing is then closed and the board members deliberate and discuss the case and vote. At that time, you'll be able to listen to our discussion, but you will not be able to participate. And with that, let's go to roll call. All right. Thank you. Uh, Mayor Baskerville.
Chair Broaddock. I'm here. Vice Chair uh Graham here. Mr. Borchoff here. Mr. Campbell may be here. Mr. Yanwali here. Miss Lman here. Uh, councelor Lman. Apologies. It's actually it's lock
command. Lock command. I'm sorry. Yeah. Mr. Files here. Miss Willis here. Mr. Neman here. And Mr. Nice here. And Mr. Hernandez here. Okay. Next up, we have the swearing in of the board
professionals. I think it's just Mr. Hernandez at this point. Are you going to Are you going to speak to No, I probably won't. Sir, do you solemnly swear the testimony you may give tonight will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Would you please state your full
name for the record? Norberto Hernandez. Is your Is your microphone on, Mr. Hernandez? Now it is. Okay. Norberto Hernandez. Great. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Next up, we have our minutes from the meeting of May 19th.
Motion to adopt as amended. As amended. I think Ms. Councelor Lochman and myself, you know, circulated some comments and second. Perfect. All those in favor?
I opposed extensions. Anybody who wasn't here on May 19th, Mr. Cample with three. Okay. Next up, we have the resolution
for adopting the fourth round housing element and fair share plan. Mayor. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I would like to ask please that uh before we adopt this, we remove the Martins home for services
from the fourth round housing element. the owners of this property said that they have been gravely inconvenienced that people as a result of having their name there. They're getting phone calls from people that are asking um if
they're interested in selling and and numerous other things that have cost them immensely. Um, and because of this inconvenience and because I do remember that they came in and presented that before that, I'd like to ask that we
amend this before we vote on this and remove them from the U fourth round housing element. I'd like to speak in um favor of that request. Um, I think it has been um an error to have put them in
it because it implies that they're going out of business, which of course they're not. And I I really support that we would try to correct that to the extent possible. I I don't know. Is that something that we can do, Mr. Nice? I mean, I would
think that would require public notice and reopening the hearing in order to change the text of the plan. Is that I'm afraid so. Um because it's a master plan amendment, notice of any change to it
would be required. And to my knowledge, no notice of that potential change was given uh in anticipation of tonight's meeting. So I'm afraid that's not going to be possible. If uh if the board in the future wishes to do that, um I would
say that uh take that up with Janice, allow her to make notice or to provide notice uh in accordance with the MLUL and uh perhaps that's something that could be done at that point in time. And I I in fact did take this up with um
planner Tally at the council meeting when we were asked to um vote. uh we voted, but I asked her beforehand if uh we would have an opportunity here to um amend that and she said yes, we would,
but we would have to do what what you said. We would have to re notice that. So, what is the process to renotice that? Can we renotice it? How many days do we have to give for a renotice? And um yeah, what is that process? Or should I be asking you, chair? You probably
know. I'm sorry. Just because you could ask council. I mean that's either either way. Yeah. Council, can you please tell us tell me what is that process? It it it's somewhat involved because the notice that is necessary for master plan
amendments is a little bit different than notice that's required for applications and the like here. Um neighboring towns, the clerks of neighboring towns have to be notified. Um we don't have any military bases nearby, but uh those folks would need to
be notified as well if we did. Um it really is a process of publication and mailing and it's a it's involved. Um, as to the number of days, I'll I I'd have to check the statute, but I think it's
uh, you know, certain I I don't know that it could be done before our next meeting, which I think is in two weeks. We have a special meeting in two weeks, correct? Yeah. I I'm I'm not sure about that. I'll while this meeting goes on, I will confirm that, but it does take some
time and it is a process. So, could it could it could it happen before the next meeting? I'll let you know. I'll look right now. Thank you. Sure, counselor. Uh, chair, I'd also like to say that not only would that process need to take place, but the council then would have to endorse it, right, as we did with
this plan. So, we'd have to have a meeting where the council would endorse that this also if there were a change. And I'm not sure the council has meeting dates set up that would allow that as well. Well, it wouldn't because we're meeting on the last day of the month. So, and it needs to be done by June
30th. So, I don't think it's possible, right? And I it may see I and this is this is where, you know, having Miss Tally's opinion on this from reading the new regulations, but we have a version that, you know,
this this body will have, you know, has passed and I assume the council and the council endorsed it, so it's ready to go. That may statutoily you know, fulfill our obligations and then anything after that, you know, could be submitted at a later date
perhaps and that's where at this point I think we're bound to this plan that this council has voted on and that the I mean sorry that this body has voted on and that the council has endorsed and which has to be done into the state by June 30th.
I I I'm aware of that and this all sounds um like like it's something but the reason that you know we've we've had special meetings before we've called special meetings it's a matter of if anybody else on this body feels as I do that there's been a grave inconvenience
on someone who has been here and celebrated in the community for a long time and as a result of something that we did that we should consider having a special meeting and moving forward. I certainly wouldn't want to be in that position, you know, where people are
calling and coming by the property and and other things. It's an inconvenience. And the fact that that she mentioned that to us even before we voted on it and I think, you know, maybe we weren't just focusing in on that because by the time we got the whole thing, I
personally was voting so that we can have a plan in there. But now that it's been brought to my attention what's happening with the resident that's in there, you know, if other people feel that we should correct it, then I'm sure we could find out a way to correct it.
10 days publication in a newspaper at least 10 days before the hearing and service on neighboring municipalities and the office of public advocacy. There's a there's a process, but it is as long as it's 10 days, it is
possible to at least amend it. Would the council then require notice of 10 days as well or so or are we talking 20 days notice or are we talking 10 days notice? Uh we would need we would need 10 days. Yeah. But then the council would also
have and then I I I'm hesitant to tread into the municipal uh into the governing body's uh purview without consulting with its council as well to see what how they would view it because that would
put us uh past the deadline unfortunately and they require a notice as well. Um I think it certainly makes sense to amend it after we're done. I I am concerned about having time to get this in under the statuto statutory requirement.
Yeah. And the question also is would we amend it just for this one property owner for all the other non-conforming uses that were identified in the plan? Well, I I don't recall um anyone else that came before us before we voted on
this and asked us to remove it and let us know then why. I guess since that time it's gotten, you know, worse and the um people that are coming towards her property and inconveniencing them has multiplied. Um and then the fact that the council move forward, although
our planner did let us know that if the um council does not vote, then we can move forward because we're not really doing much other than codifying a spending plan. So, I'm not that concerned about whether we can do it or not. I just think it's a matter of, you
know, the will of this council to correct the mistake that we made and I would like to just hear from, you know, the other um members of the commission about, you know, what your thoughts are. I'll be in favor just notice it. I just do it. I mean, it's not it maybe takes a little bit of time. Notice it, reopen
it. numerous cases it you know and I think that including other properties you know you you did hear from one but there may be others that might Applegate farm did talk to but they were okay just go through the go through the um just advertise it have
a meeting and whenever the meeting falls I'm not sure we do a special meeting but just fold it into a fold it into a meeting that's appropriately um later than the notice but we would need clarity quickly if that would impact the um submission before the deadline,
right? We would need to know that. I I think as described, it'd be adopting the plan, but then immediately or as promptly as reasonable, making notice that we were going to amend the plan. So, still having the plan adopted as is, but making clear quickly that we're
intending to change that. So, we'd still be in compliance because we'd have adopted the plan, but we would then be moving to make an amendment. Do we know what the status of the submission is going to be on the governing body side? Have they've not yet the governing body?
We've endorsed it already. Yeah, I'm sorry. We endorsed it already at the last endorse it. We endorsed the plan and we and we approve the spending plan. Do you know whether or not it has actually been submitted? Well, that would be Janet. Yeah, I don't know. I
don't know if planner tally had actually submitted it, but I know before I voted, I spoke with her and so she is aware of the fact that at least one person there uh intended on asking for an amendment because she was a person that told me this process is available. And I
understand that you're saying, you know, we can just go ahead and pass it. And I'm saying, hey, we have 10 days, so why don't we have a special meeting, get it in on the 10 days, and then go ahead and submit it on time. But we just have a special meeting. Well, it takes it takes some time to, you know, simply because
you send something to a newspaper doesn't mean that it gets published right away. There's a there is a lag sometimes. Arthur, are we the right body to I mean, if it's been if it's been approved by the council after we referred it to them, wouldn't they have to I mean, are we we have to reopen it?
No, because that's what Janice said. She said there was absolutely nothing that the council could before I voted. She told me specifically that there's absolutely nothing that the council can do. We would have to come back to the planning board. So based on what she
said and I understood it to mean that we could do that and and that she's aware that that was something I was interested in that we would bring it here and see where it falls. So if if the planning board were to amend properly with notice, etc. amend that document. Um,
would the would the council immediately act to do so? I have no idea because you already endorsed, right, a document, right? And so, you would have to endorse a new or amended document. Yeah. That
comes from this board. And I'm not sure the time frame for council to notice a new meeting to go. I don't know. council really needs to notice for this. I think um this is something that council can
simply adopt or endorse I guess is the term that has been thrown around. But we have to it's really up to this board to adopt that plan. It is a master plan amendment. I mean why couldn't we just do this on the first meeting uh the next
meeting of the planning board? what you know what's the urgency except I know we want if if the Martin knows that we're going to do this but we're not going to do it before June 30th there's not that much you know time what difference does it make I think the inconvenience of
having people call for the next two weeks trying to buy it and do various things is something that if we can prevent that happening would be worth doing. I would sus suggest that we begin
the process immediately and try to to if it goes forward as it is because we did not change it. We we can change it any time, right? So that if we start and have it waiting to
be changed or whatever um as long as we give the proper notice and we make our decision then with the process continues in its usual fashion right and it it's not like what you're proposing here is a substant substitute precisely it's
really you know it just I don't think too many people would be concerned but we must do it properly. I'm not suggesting that we don't, but I would think that just moving forward and getting it started would be the best thing to do as long as it's not a problem. Can you discuss with Janice
tomorrow and figure out the timing of the issue? She's she really coordinates the notice and sends out the mailings and publications and uh so she really is the person who's best situated to address it. Right. And so it would be
good to get plannerally's feedback on that. I mean, as I'm looking at a calendar, let's just say we started the process tomorrow and somehow everything fell into place. Tomorrow is day one. The earliest we could have a meeting is the 27th, which is a Friday, and we're
already meeting that next Monday. So I my general sense would be let's if this can happen quickly we add this to our agenda on the 30th because I'm I'm sensitive to you know the the um owner of the property and having more days of
harassment engagement whatever it is um and harassing others and and whatnot. So I I really don't want to just sit around and have to endure that for any longer than I have to. So I would think that I would like to move it forward however
however we can do it most expeditiously. Yeah I would think the 30th I mean but then what about the planning boards I mean sorry what about the council's endorsement that that I can't answer that's but does that have to be in by June 30th as I understood it did. So,
but if has to be in correct, it's in, but it could be in on the plan that this body adopted and that we will formalize through a resolution tonight. Yes. I mean, what what we are what you
are memorializing is what happened two weeks ago. Correct. So, then we would need subsequent resolution. I would prepare. I mean, if if the board was of that mind, I would uh I not my favorite practice, but I would prepare an amended
resolution so that if you vote favorably on that uh it it could be the resolution could be uh adopted that evening, the same evening. What that means in the bigger scheme of things though, I'm not really sure. Right. And I don't I mean
unless the council were also to have a meeting on the 30th, which I don't see happening, but I won't speak for the council and the mayor. I think that would be challenging. But I think at least from my perspective, you know, if we if we move forward with it, you with the resolution tonight, the council's
already endorsed that plan. We have something that can go to the state by the 30th to meet the statutory deadline. And that that's what we were all trying to do for the last, you know, four months in this process is make sure we hit that deadline. This next step, while important, I don't
think has to hit that deadline. That's what I'm wondering. I think that's probably right. But I understand the urgency in wanting to expeditiously move forward with the amendment. Yeah. And and and I think we should. I just I don't think
there's the the deadline of having the council have any sort of endorsement on this by the 30th. I wouldn't think so, but that's the question. So, yeah. And I have another question, right? Is it is the statutory deadline, you know, just something that can't be changed? Like if
we needed a week more, then they couldn't give us a week if we wrote them a letter and let them know that we needed a week more. I honestly don't know the answer to that. I do know that every town that has part of this has
been laboring uh heavily to comply with the June 30, but as they say, stuff happens. So there may be a mechanism for that. I'm just not aware of it. Thank you. Okay. So I think we have a path forward.
We'll get some more information in the next day or so. Um, for now, there was a resolution put forward to formalize and memorialize our action on this element. I know I
circulated a couple of red line changes. If anybody else had any other changes or comments on it. Nope. I had uh just one comment and uh one potential change. So on page two the second whereas clause where we talked about present need of
132 units and also on the be it further resolved page three 132 units. Do we need to clarify that those are rehabilitation units. We don't need to do that. I don't I don't believe we do because the present need and rehabilitation units are I think basically interchangeable terms. Okay.
Because the future need would be the prospective need and and present need is not prospective need. Okay. Arthur, you agree? Thank you, council. You're welcome. But I have a comment about that. I don't believe that that's true. I believe the credits that we have from
the prior rounds wipe out that perspective need, that current need. That that doesn't mean the need doesn't exist. That means we've satisfied the need. Correct me if I'm wrong. Should we say that though? It makes it seem like the need exists. And but I think we for
resolution. I think we're acknowledging Yeah. I think we're acknowledging that the state has said we have this need. We should acknowledge what the state says. But should we also say that the town does not have an obligation to rehabilitate 132 units because it's
satisfied by the credits that we've banked with the state. You're not given the full picture. those credits are not really of record as far as I know. We can utilize them and we will utilize them, but it's not part of a resolution that way. We're
complying with the state requirement that I'm just trying to, you know, have clarity about the whole process and issue yet. I think the plan is what satisi is what says we're using the credits. It's not the resolution saying we're using the credits. It's the plan itself. Well, actually the plan doesn't
say that we have 132 prescriptive uh you know need. It says that it's satisfied by these credits. I believe that's what the plan says. I mean I look it up. I think it's in the plan that we've satisfied the Is it Do you have I think it's in the I don't have it in front of
me. I think it's in the plan but if not we're we're talking about amending it very soon. So that's something I think it's in the plan because I think it is in the plan. Yeah. Okay. Oh, but I this but the res the resolution is is fine as is. Yeah, correct. And this specific paragraph is actually talking about what
the mayor and council did with their resolution about uh the need. That's what this that's what this paragraph speaks to. So that I I think should stay the way it is because that's you know just just commenting on what you all did. Yeah. I just like the full
picture and this the way it is isn't the full picture. M any other I just had one more thing I noticed on page three the third whereas clause I don't know if it was my PDF or what but affordable the Fs were missing uh each time affordable housing was uh
written in the indented clause I'm looking at it says affordable to me so you have it on then it must have been my PDF reader so that's just an odd quirk I suppose oh I'm seeing that too you're seeing it too you're seeing it online yeah I think
maybe you have one. Yeah, it's the reader. It's a different So maybe it's the reader. Okay. Just wanted to make sure that was uh not a not in the document itself. All right. Thank you, Arthur. Not this. I see I see it as uh two ads. Okay.
Any other changes to the resolution? No. With that, I would move that we adopt this resolution as amended. Second. All those in favor? I I opposed. I and
abstensions. Okay. Motion carries. Okay. That brings us to application 2915 117 Wong Avenue. [Music] [Music]
Thank you. Are you looking for the handheld mic? Oh, thank you. Okay. Wow. This is can't be all one. It is two.
Whenever you're ready. Waiting. Waiting for the signal. Oh, whenever you're ready. Sorry. I'm sorry. Good evening everyone. Alan Tremulac appearing on behalf of the uh applicant 117 Santrom LLC. Uh this is a fairly simple application
for site plan approval for property located at 117 Wong Avenue. Properties located in the Wong Plaza business district. also located in the NC neighborhood commercial uh zone district. You know um for this property
you know for many many years was the home of the watch deli Montlair Institution um which you know when my kids were young they used to refer to as the skinny deli to you know to distinguish it from the larger deli that had been
located a few doors down. And when you look at this property, it's, you know, the deli was very skinny and the property is very skinny or narrow. It's not even 15 feet wide. Um, and the bu existing building covers the entirety of
the of the property. So there's 100% impervious coverage. Um, which is by the way one of the variances we're seeking simply to continue a pre-existing nonconformity. Um,
so the property currently contains a uh Thai restaurant uh on the first floor and a small one-bedroom apartment on the second floor which is actually parked it's part of the second floor which is to the rear of the building adjacent to
the uh municipal parking lot to the rear. Um my client intends to perform a number of improvements uh to the building. Um, and those improvements would include an expansion of the second floor apartment from a
one-bedroom apartment to a two-bedroom apartment. It's a modest expansion as part of overall facade improvements and just generally enhancing improving the appearance of the building in general. Um, I should point out because I think
it's somewhat significant that my clients who own uh 117 Watch Plaza also own the adjacent property at 115 Wong Avenue, which is where the townhouse liquor store is located. Uh, they've
owned that property for quite a while. They also own the liquor store. And as some of you may recall, um I'm not sure how long ago it is at this point, uh but we appeared before this board 10 years.
Okay. About 10 years ago for approval to construct a second story addition to 115 Wong. Um uh and that was approved by the board. Two residential apartments uh included along with uh parking
varants. um you know this application um um and and of course that work was completed. This application is somewhat similar although smaller in scope um where we're seeking you know we're only seeking to
enlarge the second floor apartment. Um, and as I think you'll see from the from the uh drawings that the building is somewhat compatible with the building next door in its improved condition. And
um, you know, this was uh this these plans were reviewed uh and approved by the uh historic preservation commission uh with a couple of comments that we'll address tonight. Um so there's two
variances involved. One is the uh variance to maintain the existing non-conforming 100% impervious coverage which we really can't do anything about. Um and the second is a parking variance. By
increasing the one-bedroom apartment to a two-bedroom apartment, it results in a 0.2 two uh or to increase in the required parking or oneifth of a parking space. Um you know, there's never been
any parking on this property. Um and there's no ability to provide any parking and again we're we're increasing the parking demand by one of of a space. Um, and we intend to meet that by
obtaining uh and obtaining and maintaining a uh night permit from the town for the uh for the tenant who would occupy that second floor apartment. So, I have two witnesses tonight. Uh first witness will be Ryan Robertson of
Gregory Schwitzer Architecture formerly Sionis Architecture um who will discuss the plans and then my second witness will be a representative of the applicant Amit Patel. Stop.
Before we begin, I know you you're just want to be sworn. I know that you're chomping at that. I'm chomping at a bit, but let's just review what the uh what we've already marked. All right. A1 we have application. A2 certification of taxes paid. Exhibit A3
is the certification of publication. A4 the affidavit of service. A5 is the survey prepared by Richard Jhingos dated uh December 21st, 2015. Then we have architectural drawings by
Gregory Switzer dated November 14th, 2024 and revised on April 8th, 2025. The engineer report is A7 dated uh February 2nd, 2025.
A8 is the HPC report from the historic preservation commission February 26, 2025. Then the development review committee from that is A9 uh March 27th, 2025.
A10 is the planning report dated April 15, 2025. And A1 is the planning board presentation that was handed out just now dated um May 19th, 2025. Okay. So now I'm going to make you
happy. Sir, do you solemnly uh swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Would you please state your full name and business affiliation for the record? Ryan Robertson from Gregory Schwitzer
Architects uh located at 7 Oak Place in Montlair. So Chairman, I believe Mr. Robertson has appeared before this board on prior applications and been accepted as an architect. Um I'd ask you to if you would stipulate to his qualifications as
an architect, we're happy to have him recite his qualifications. the board. As long as his license is still current. Yes. Yes. Yeah, we'll accept him. Thank you. We'd throw you out of here if that wasn't the case. He He wouldn't be here if that were I was say we wouldn't
accept him if that were the case. Um um Ryan, you've prepared the plans that have been submitted to the board uh for this application. That's right. All right. And you've prepared uh your typical PowerPoint presentation to assist you in discussing the plans this
evening. And again, that's been marked as exhibit A1. So, why don't you proceed and take the board through the plans uh okay for this project. Thank you. Uh this is uh the PowerPoint presentation
for 117 Wong Avenue. It's in the NC neighborhood commercial zone and the Wong Plaza Historic District. Um you can see here the the shape of the lot. As Allan, as Mr. Trenilac said, it's very narrow. It's less than 15 ft wide, 85 ft
deep. It's 00 29 acres or 1,248 square ft. It's located on the south side of Wong Avenue between Wong Plaza to the west and North Fullerton to the east. This is north is at the top of the page on this slide here. The lot is currently improved with an existing two-story
building. The front two/3s, you can see my dashed line here indicating roughly 1/3 and 2/3. The front two/3s is a one-story concrete block building and the rear is two stories. It has the same concrete block on the first floor and then it's a wood frame on the second
floor which Mr. Trenilac u mentioned is the existing apartment. The first floor is a um Thai Indian restaurant as he said. The second floor um is that apartment. It's accessed from the rear. There's a door right here which you'll see in subsequent slides.
And the existing building meets the property lines at the north, east, and west, but at the rear there's a 10- foot wide um area with right of access abudding the municipal parking lot. Next slide, please. And so here you can see um what do you
call the skinny deli? It is a very narrow lot. It's right here located next to Mr. Dino's Pizza to the left and 115 Wong, which is also owned by the applicant to the right. Here is the addition that um was mentioned that we got approval for 10 years ago. Townhouse
Liquor, uh Boho Cafe, and a hair salon are all located in 115. And um one thing that we we did for this property at 115, this was before my time with the office, but I know for a fact
they wanted to keep everything under operation while they did construction. So the floor joists were constructed on top of the existing roof and they successfully pulled it off to build this second story without having to close down any of the businesses and we are proposing to do the same here which
you'll see some of the approach how we're planning to do that in subsequent slides. Um and the exist okay that's here's the rear view um from seen from the municipal parking lot. This is the building right here this skinny one right here. And on the first floor,
there's a textured masonry block. And you see a slight shed roof leading to the woodframe second floor apartment. Behind this van, there's double doors that are the um delivery doors for the restaurant. And the white door you see here is the entrance for the apartment.
And also, you'll see the UPS store to the left here, which is going to be a part of my testimony. So, um, flag in your mind where this is located in the rear parking lot. Next slide please. So these are the um existing plans.
Basement first floor and second floor. The basement is 736 ft with um 609 ft uh square feet of crawl space in the front. The first floor is all restaurant not counting this stairway that leads up to
the apartment. That's uh 1,32 ft. And the apartment up above is 444 square ft. You can see it has a full bath, a small bedroom, but it doesn't really have a kitchen or a living room. It's just this L-shaped space. So, um, part
of the motivation for this application is to get an apartment that's much more livable. Next slide. Here are the existing elevations and you see the the front facade. This is the Wong Avenue facade. What exists is a
stone veneer on the front and the textured block at the rear. Um and then the apartment itself is u vinyl siding with asphalt shingle roof and an existing um awning and existing sign for the restaurant.
Paul here's an aerial image giving some site context. Watch Avenue right here. Park Street right here. Watch Plaza, North Fullerton, and the municipal parking lot. And here again is the UPS store, which is um the location of an existing
dumpster that's owned by the applicant and share it among um some of the other businesses, which I'll enumerate. Um and we propose to enclose the dumpster that's there at the request of the planning board or uh the planner. Um more information on that upcoming slide.
Next slide, please. So, what we are proposing is um the second floor addition to enlarge the existing one-bedroom, one bath dwelling to be a two-bedroom, two bath dwelling. There'll be front and rear terraces which you'll see on the second floor
plan in more detail. The rooftop mechanical equipment will be behind an equipment screen and there'll be modifications to the front and rear facade. And here's just the list of all the variances which Mr. Trim already talked about the one thing he didn't mention is the waiver request for the
200 cubic feet of storage in a convenient centrallylo area in the basement or ground floor and you'll see in the proposed floor um there is no room for that. So we that's why we need to request that waiver. Um next slide please.
So, here is the first floor plan and here is where I was talking about the entrance into the apartment. Um, does not leave room for 200 cubic square ft of of storage that's required in the ordinance, but it's only one tenant and as soon as you go up there's there's
plenty of storage that we've provided for them within the unit. Um, you can see this is the layout of the restaurant. There's a backup of house area with the stairs that go down. Um, a sink area here, a walk-in cooler, existing kitchen area, the public
bathroom. This is kind of like a a staging area for um the weight staff, and this is the the pay area, an existing um glass storefront to remain. And no, no changes are proposed at the restaurant itself. Uh we do propose to
reconstruct the partition here to give it um adequate fire separation where none exists right now. Uh next slide please. Here's our proposed second floor plan. Uh again it's to create two bedrooms,
two bathrooms with um front and rear terraces. So as you come up the stairs, you land here into an open living room, dining room, kitchen area. We've provided shafts um to handle some of the uh mechanical needs from the restaurant below.
Um we've got a utility closet. You go towards the rear, you go down a couple steps to a a full bath and a bedroom here with reutilizing some of the existing closets and adding new and a 5ft deep terrace at the rear. If you go
to the front, you pass through a little hallway towards another utility closet for the water heater and washerdryer into the primary bedroom which has um its own onsuite bathroom, a larger closet and its own private terrace.
Again, 5 ft deep. Um both terraces have um single leaf French doors and new windows. Next slide, please. Here's the roof plan. Um, you could see the outline where I'm outlining right
here is the location of the equipment, rooftop equipment, which we would screen with a wood enclosure. Um, we're proposing four skylights. Right here, two are two. And here are the other two. And we're proposing these sun tunnels to the bathrooms, which can't have a
window, but they bring in good light into an interior bathroom. So, there's where one bathroom is below, and here's where the other is below. We have a gable roof that is mimicking the pitch of 115 watch 115 is right here and that was an HPC comment. Um we
originally had kind of our own roof pitches going on here but we were asked to match. So this front end of the gable now matches the 115 roof pitch and then it pitches back to a flat area. And
um the reason the reason this roof is laid out the way it is is because right here roughly is the rear third and then the front 2/3. This is to replicate the the drainage that's currently existing. Whereas right now the rear third had the one apartment and all that water went
back and was emptied onto the municipal parking lot. The design of this roof will ensure that the same proportion of water would go back to the municipal parking lot and then the other two/3s would go to this roof drain which could you go back two slides?
This roof drain leads right there. This enclosure in the um in the restaurant there's a bump out which is where the water is drained down out under the sidewalk and on to watch Avenue. you can go to the next. So, this is the proposed um front
elevation. I'll read all these notes um from top to bottom here. We're proposing a a synthetic slate or fiberglass asphalt composition roof shingles. Um a proposed aluminum gutter and aluminum roof leader that I'm talking about up here
below that. um proposed woodclad casement windows, two of them shown, and the single leaf French door right here. We're proposing a wall sconce, typical of two. I'll show you a detail on that, but there's one at both terraces.
This is the line of the um the coping cap, which is seen in the rendering here. So, the terrace is fully screened, 42 in high above the the pavers. And below that we've got gooseeneck lighting
for this sign which is existing wall sign to remain. It's 16 square ft and we are just raising it I think a little bit to balance this. This is the existing awning to remain. And
um it's a 4ft projection is what exists. And this is the existing storefront and existing door. Um the hardware, the door pole on this door is the only thing that wasn't updated. Um years ago, the tenant updated their storefront. It was a bronze color and now it's black, but the
handle is still bronze. So, we we're proposing to change that to black. Next slide, please. And the rear is similar um in some respects, but here you're seeing the flat roof, and this is way off in the distance. remember about a third of the
way back where you're seeing the the um wood equipment screen. The note here, the note in your drawing says metal, but it's a typo. It's a wood equipment screen, which you'll see in the detail later. And it's the same aluminum gutter and roof leader leading on this side.
115 watt chunk for reference is over here. And this is the back of 115, which is townhouse liquors. Um we have soldier course and the thin brick. um soldier courses above the casement window and French door. Here's that
other sconce. And this is I'll move to the bottom here. This is that um that block wall that is to remain. And we decided to break this up with Stuckco because the side which you can kind of see in this rendering will just be stuck. So we're
wrapping that around here but created a little uh bump out to separate the textured block from the stucco. We are also proposing this awning to um sort of match the one in the front but only a three-foot projection just so this tenant has um
can be protected from rain and snow when trying to enter the apartment. There was a flood light that was kind of right where this left side of the awning is. We're proposing to relocate that you'll see in the elevation to this side of the door so that it sensor will capture any
movements. Um there's an existing concrete ramp right here. And there's room right here for this is where the roof leader currently empties onto the parking lot. And there's room right here for um
recycling bins, which is um has been part of the uh discussion from the DRC to the HPC till now. So we'll show you some information on that. Next slide. And so the the top is showing the east elevation. Um we're we're not allowed to
put any windows here. We're right at the property line. So it's a stucco um face, which is basically what 115 looks like now. Um but now it'll be the side of 117. And here you see the the rooftop equipment enclosure. Here you see the
red line of 115's roof. So you can see how we're trying to line up with that and have ease of construction and ease of flashing. And um good thing is it's the the same applicant owns that building. So this is
just kind of a diagrammatic section to show how this roof existing roof goes all the way to here. So this was our starting point for where we had to do framing. So this establishes our second floor height and we had to add some steps. And then um yeah, you can see the
roof pitch now matches 115. Um anything else more to say here? Next slide, please. These are the existing and proposed streetscapes. First, we'll do the the front and then we'll we have streetcapes of the rear as well. So here you can see
115 Wong, Townhouse Liquor, and the Boho Cafe. Here's the existing Basil restaurant with that's back in the distance, the apartment. And here's Mr. Dino's Pizza. And you can see what we're proposing. Um, similar in height to one
115. Uh, yeah. Next slide. And at the rear um what exists this was that little shed roof we saw in one of the first slides and a window in the apartment that would be removed and it would be raised a little bit for a
terrace parapit wall and then 5 ft back would be this face of the apartment. And here's the uh wood equipment screen. Next slide please. some information on the proposed site improvements. Uh so we're proposing new
lighting at the signage. These are the gooseeneck lights. Um three of them will be above the existing externally illuminated restaurant sign. Here are the wall sconces. Uh both of these will be black. Um these are at the terrace doors. And here's the equipment screen
detail. Um it's wood that's 42 in high. Um that can be modified as needed for the height of the actual equipment. Um, and can't quite read that master signage
plan. I'll look at my notes here. Um, so for the master signage plan, there's the existing business sign. Um, which we are we are locating the bottom of the sign at 12'4. Um
and that will that will be the existing new remain. The other two signs are the fabric awning identification um on both awnings. Um one would say 117 that's on the watch side and it would also have the phone number of the restaurant and the other sign is just
says 117A at the rear awning. Next slide please. So, here's the um UPS store that I mentioned earlier. This is the entrance to that store. Um this is the dumpster that the applicant owns and it's surrounded by
ballards. And here's a a power pole right here. Um we were asked to tidy this up and make a wood enclosure around this. Uh the township requires that you have a roof on the wood enclosure, but we reviewed with Miss Tally that it
would this isn't even our building and it would it would um obstruct the windows. So she agreed that we should try to um get a waiver for not putting a roof. So you'll see the details on this trash enclosure coming up. Next slide, please. And here's the power pole I mentioned.
Here's the existing ballards and AC unit. Here's the size of the existing dumpster. and the um proposed wood enclosure which would be 4'9 deep by 7 foot 8 wide um right next to the the rear door
entrance into the UPS store. It's 5 ft tall again with no roof and it's proposed to be 1x6 cedar with chamfered top corners on a concrete pad. Um, this is just a reference photo of a a
board- on board cedar fence, so you could imagine what it would look like. Um, and then this is also a little diagram showing the distance from the rear of the restaurant, which is this rect rectangle right here, to the dumpster is 49t 10. And so the trash and
recycling plan is such that this dumpster which we would propose to enclose would now be shared by the UPS store, the townhouse liquor and wine and the apartments above at 115 Wam and it would be also used by the BA Thai Basil
restaurant and our proposed two-bedroom um two bath apartment. townhouse uh and Tai Basil are to provide new plastic bins at their respective rear elevations, which I have a picture of coming up. And uh trash pickup is twice a week on Tuesdays and
Fridays. Recycling pickup is once a week on Wednesdays. And that be private trash pickup? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Recycling by the town. Recycling is by the town. Yes, by the town. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Next slide,
please. Another um requirement from the town is to designate indoor area to keep um your recycling so that it's not such a mess. And I know that has been a problem in this lot. So we um at 115. This is a
excerpt from a drawing we did a while ago again 10 years ago showing the designated area right here. It's this rectangle right by the rear dumpster or rear doors, which would be in this photo would be further to your left, but there's a um a large area there for them
to to keep their cardboard and not store it outside and then only bring it out on recycling day and put it in the bins. Um as a liquor store, you can imagine they get a lot of cardboard. The the restaurant gets a little less. It gets produce and cardboard, so we don't have
as much of a need. So, we are only proposing a six square ft area right here. We have room and that would be the staging area for the recyclables. And then here are um since the HPC meeting, the applicant has purchased these two bins and we placed them on site and took
a photo to show how that'll fit. And next slide, please. So, that's the presentation. Um just in summary that as Alan as Mr. So Tremilac said the site does have an existing parking deficiency. Uh the dwelling dwelling unit change only is an increase
of 0.2 spaces or 1/5if of a space and the impervious coverage is a pre-existing nonconformity that we are not exacerbating. Um and the other thing was that that waiver about the the storage is there's no way to have it on the first floor. The or
the wording of the ordinance also said it could be in a basement, but the tenant would have no way to access the basement. There would be room down there, but there's just no path for them to get to the basement. So, we required the word on that. And I'm not sure when you were reviewing the proposed floor
plan whether you identified the storage space that's provided, you know, for the second floor apartment within the unit. Oh, I think you said there was adequate storage within the unit. Yeah, there's more than 200 cubic feet within the unit. Okay. Did you
indicate where that's located shown on the plans? Well, I didn't indicate it. No, because it's just any any of the closets. Really? Okay. So, you believe there's adequate storage place provided? Correct. Within the unit for a two-bedroom apartment?
Correct. Okay. A quick question about the trash plane. Um, is it assumed that the tenant is going to have access to the restaurant to store their recycling? No, they would store their their cans and cardboard in
in their own unit and they would bring it out. So, if the um if the blue bin was outside, it's it's theirs to use. So, okay. I I was thinking about the staging area inside that appears to be inside the restaurant. Yeah. or like broken down cardboard stack specifically
for the restaurant even though the Okay, understand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just um final question I have is just refer making reference to the report from the historic preservation commission where they indicated support for the project with two comments and
you already talked about the roof pitch and that you've adjusted the roof pitch uh as per the HPC's request and then there was a second comment about examining the condition of the brick beneath the stone veneer. That's right. So, the existing first floor has a a
stone veneer that's been painted white that doesn't have any of its historical context anymore, but the HPC was curious to know if underneath that cladding there was something interesting, something wonderful that we would want to preserve. Um, we agreed with to the
HBC that when we demolish, we would take a look and reconsider what this is because right now what we're proposing is thin brick and um, Mr. Smallen, the um the HPC consultant at that meeting, he expressed doubt that it would really
actually be salvageable because how that how that stone would have been adhered back in the 50s was through masonry spikes and it probably damaged whatever's behind it. But the applicant does agree that if we find anything that's in really great shape, it's really just kind of this area. But if there's anything really great there, if
there's some really great brick that exists or something else, we would look at um salvaging it and restoring it. Yes. Just since you're looking at that picture is you mentioned that the frame around the window is black. Yes. Could that be
bronze underneath it? It's existing bronze and I don't know if it was painted or replaced. I have to ask the applicant. Um, so would there be any point in removing the paint and exposing the bronze like like there was um a building on Church Street where that happened? And it's Diesel and Duke.
Diesel and Duke. And it really turned out really beautiful. I'm just just curious really. Oh, it was an aluminum that was a bronze color. So that's why they painted it. I think that sounds right. Okay. I I believe
I believe HBC would have asked about and I don't recall it being bronze. I believe it was aluminum we determined. Yeah. A couple other questions. Should I continue? Yeah, I've completed my examination. Should I continue? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, um speaking about storage, uh you mentioned um
you know all the storage that's within the unit. Is it possible the tenant has their own entrance uh going into their unit, right? Yes. Yes. Is it possible to Is there enough room to store a stroller or a bike or anything there? Not at that
rear entry. Um, no. It's only It's only about 4t wide. I would say it's the width of the stairway. Okay. Just asking. Um, the other thing is what is the length of I know you said it's 15t wide. What is
the length of the finished unit? The length of the lot? No, the length of the unit. Of the unit. Okay. Um, looks like it's about maybe 60 feet or so. Well, it's 85 minus 10. So, I think 75
ft. 75 ft. Okay. And so, when I look at this, there's only windows in the front and in the back. And then you have a skylight and you have a sun tunnel. Four skylights and two sun tunnels. Yeah. So it seems it's going to be and then you said that there would be space for a
window but windows are prohibited on the property line. Yeah. Now is there space for a window there if we were to give you a variance to add another window? I mean well that is I don't think you could I don't think we're able to. No. Okay. It just looks like the interior
space could be pretty dark and so I was wondering if there's any way to solve that. I know you've tried the skylights and the sun tunnel, right? Um yeah, we did um one of the I think it was at the HPC somebody had a comment about natural light and ventilation
requirements. We looked into that and we're meeting the code minimum for natural light and ventilation and um we're doing that through Yeah. through the skylights and Okay. Um is the skylight open? No. No, it it isn't
required to by code. So we weren't supposed to. Okay. Um, just a kind of a design question. So, it it strikes me you put both of the bedrooms next to terraces terraces. Why would you do that and not put the bedrooms in the middle where you really don't need a whole lot
of light or whatever necessarily and the public space that would be used, the kitchen, the living room would open onto a terrace. That would seem to me a more, you know, a happier way to live in this apartment rather than the bedrooms on the outside where you hear the noise in
the back by the parking and you hear the noise in the front by Wong Avenue and then you have the living space in the middle. It's I'm I know you're not going to change this, but I'm just curious why would you do that? Well, the bedrooms are required to have egress requirements and a living room. Yeah. So, you you I
think the way you would have to be, you'd have a an internal bedroom with no windows. And I I don't know that we would meet egress, but you have a kitchen and you have a living room with basically no windows. Yeah, bedrooms are required. So that's the issue is egress here. And
then beyond that to try to lay it out that way, you'd kind of have railroad bedrooms cuz you'd have to go through the bedroom to get to another bedroom unless you pushed it, you know, at least you'd have maybe the living space could be in the front or the back together in the two bedrooms. Yeah. And what's wrong with the railroad apartment? I It's just
not not contemporarily desirable. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, um Okay. I just was curious about that. I just want to see if I have anything more, but people jump in. Mayor, thank you. I have a question. Um
regarding the variance for parking. Um is there an opportunity to purchase a parking spot from either across the street or behind the area? I I heard the part about getting a night uh permit, but that's not always available. And I
like to know, you know, that people have places to park before we add things because then um the council is hit very very hard with what do we do? And then we start giving people permission to park on street and then other people want on street. So, have you checked to
see if you know there's an opportunity to actually purchase a spot so we don't have to hope that there's always going to be um you know one overnight parking permit, right? You're talking about purchasing a spot in a spot some across
the street or Yeah. behind it, you know, any any of those lots that are in there, you know, down Well, the only lot that I'm aware of is sort of directly across the street in front of the fitness center. Mhm. But um that property owner
has become very protective. It used to not you know there used to be no nothing done to you know that's a private lot that's owned by that property owner and it used to be made available to you know people. I used to park there all the time when I
went to the old skinny deli. Um, but now they have basically a full-time attendant there that prevents anyone from parking there. And I don't believe that we haven't approached the property owner. Um, but from what I know, he's
not really agreeable to sharing parking. I mean, we the board required we, you know, be happy to make an inquiry. Uh but we have it then I I would be optimistic. I don't think there's really
anything else available other than the you know the municipal lots which I guess there are three if you include the small lot behind Sam's garage. You know I don't I I just think it might be
worthwhile to ask them to purchase it. I'm not talking about share because if the person's working in the city and they have a car, right, and they want to have it somewhere rather than just leave it taking up a parking space for someone else, it'd be nice if it was included or
they paid an extra price for a parking space that belonged to the expanded uh project that we're doing here. Other questions from the board? Yes, Mr. Nice. Uh, I have a couple questions. Uh,
the applicant does not own the property, uh, the UPS store property, only the the dumpster, correct? But has an agreement with the owner of that property that the dumpster can remain there. there's been an an unwritten agreement
um that's been in existence for a while. We would formalize that and certainly, you know, provide that to the board as a condition of approval. Okay? You know, indicating that because that's not on our property, but it would
be utilized by us as well as 115 Wong and the UPS store. Uh do you think that's going to be a problem, an issue formalizing that? No. No, not at all. In fact, we'd be happy to include that as a condition of approval. I would expect it to be. Yes.
Next. Um, I think you testified that the drain from the roof will come down through a portion of the restaurant, obviously, shielded or not, but where does it go? Is does it go out onto the sidewalk? Is that what I heard you to say? The
enclosure that I mentioned in the floor plan is right behind this wall. And so behind there there's an existing pipe and then it goes under the sidewalk under. The rendering doesn't show it, but there's a little PVC outlet you would see emptying onto the road. Okay. Yeah. And we're reutilizing that
existing infrastructure. All right. I just didn't want it going onto the sidewalk. Yeah. Next. Uh well, if we let we stay on drainage for a moment. Where does it drain in the rear? In the rear. Um the slides the rear. Oh, that was
fine. Yeah, behind behind these recycling bins, there's a roof leader you see right here that just empties right onto asphalt. It does not go underground. It doesn't have a splash block. It just um empties onto the municipal lot. Can it go underground?
Um and the reason I ask is because you've got delivery persons, you've got tenants, you know, you've got people bringing refues, recycling over to the UPS store. And you know what we've seen a lot in the winter is you get the snow melt up
top, hits the cold ground, freezes, and becomes a sheet of ice. And I' I've got some concerns about that. Yeah. Yeah. I I guess my answer is I do not know if there's a um a storm water drain anywhere back here. Um we could or even
dry well. I mean, is there a possibility of a dry well if there's no drain back there? I don't know if Mr. Hernandez knows if there's any sort of storm water infrastructure in the rear. The one issue is that that is township owned property back there. So that would require approval from the uh parking
utility to do any kind of excavation within uh the parking lot. Um I'm not 100% certain if there's any existing um storm water infrastructure back there, but I can take a look at my mapping here and confirm that for you shortly. Okay.
Even if it was a drywall, Mr. Pernetas, wouldn't it still need to tie into existing infrastructure anyway? It wouldn't just be a drywall that's just buried and not connected to anything. Not necessarily. I mean, we could um install an open grate at the surface so
that if in the event it did fill up, it would just spill out and then essentially function as it does today, spill out onto the asphalt surface. But, um, and I think even that would be preferable to me because it's usually not the heavy rain events that we're worried about. It's usually it's snowed.
Like I say, there's a little bit of snow melt. It's not a lot, but it's enough that it just spreads out onto the cold asphalt and then it's ice. Yes. So, if it were going underground, you know, that'd be preferable. And then if there was a rain event or something else that would cause a lot more precipitation,
chances are it's not going to freeze immediately. And if it is, it's happening townwide, not just in that one space. Yeah. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about the neighboring properties, what their storm water solutions are, if they're just also emptying onto the lot. I don't know if
that's true or not. You should be able to find out for 115, I would imagine. Yeah, I could ask if he knows. Yeah, 115's down in the parking lot, too. Okay. If that's something you can look into and perhaps work with Mr.
Hernandez to try and get that in some fashion underground, whether it's hooking up to existing infrastructure or a small dry well that would capture, you know, a reasonable amount of storm water or uh ice melt. I think that'd be helpful. Yeah, we would work with them. Of course, we would need township
approval. Of course. Of course. And obviously if you couldn't get that, you know, not much this board can do about that, but you know, I think it's it enhances public safety. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. My question is also regarding the um
storm water. So is it allowable for people to just dump their storm water on other folks property because I read somewhere I don't know in there that you have to have your storm water drainage from say my property to the neighbor property. It has to be x number of feet.
I can't just scoot it on over to the property next door. Yeah, I'm sure that's true in like a residential context. I know in the commercial it's not rare to see it emptying under the sidewalk and onto the street. I don't know about the municipal um lot. I don't
know the answer to your question how it applies to the municipal lot, but I would imagine it's it's they treat it the same as the street. I guess I don't know why. No. Oh, okay. because I understand if it's going underneath and going that way, but since it's coming a
different way and it may cause a health hazard or worse, then I guess I'm just wondering if it's the same consideration. Um, you know, when you do that. So, there are laws that say it's fine to do that. I'm just not I don't know, you
know, I'm just asking. Well, okay. I mean, I I think I can't say for sure, mayor, but I believe the condition exists for probably all the buildings in watch plaza that drain onto the to the uh into the parking lot. And again, this
has existed like just not changing this and we're not adding to it because all the new drainage uh resulting from the addition will go to the front and go out. We're happy to if we can improve it. with the assistance of the town and
cooperation of the town um you know we're happy to try to make a better condition. My client's trying to improve the property and that would also be a additional improvement. Thank you. Another question.
So I wanted to talk to you about the um the garbage containers by the UPS building. So there you're going to put bins in a little corral with board and board on concrete. The one one dumpster the existing one
dumpster the existing metal dumpster will be there. Okay. Cuz I'm concerned about rats. You know we have a rat problem. And this is a uh restaurant. You'll have restaurant garbage as well. So, and the dumpster will have a lid on it and it will be solid metal on the
bottom and on the sides and it's going to be on a concrete slab. Yes. So, we think this addresses any kind of issue and the the board on board is basically cosmetic. Yep. It's just for screening, right? Yeah. Okay. Do you know how many
cubic yards that will be? I don't um [Music] two cubic feet. Two cubic for the for the for outside the UPS store. Yeah. And one more question. Um, concerning
the trash and recycling uh area, the entities that you described that would be using that enclosure already currently use that area for disposal of trash. Yep. The only additional um load on that dumpster is is changing to a
twobedroom. So if if the onebedroom apartment had more people living in it, that would be an increase in load. But yeah, no one else uses it except for everyone at 115, everyone at 117, the UPS store. Okay. And in your professional opinion, it's sufficiently
sized to accommodate that that load. Um I don't know if I have a professional opinion about it. Uh that's more personal. You probably have experience. Yeah. Why why don't why don't you come up and
momentarily and may as well come up come up now. But before you do speak, sir, do you do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth? Yes, sir. Can you please identify yourself for the record? Amit Patel. Amit Patel. Uh, owner of 117 Central. Okay. So you were talking about the dumpster
right? Yeah. So right now existing uh common is green container is 2 cubic yard and they pick up twice a week and if we nearly need it they can do it at three times a week but right now it's sufficient as what we use all four of
us. So you would increase the the the frequency needed always. Yeah. Okay. I No, go ahead. No, just one more thing about picking up dumpsters. They're very
those heavy metal things are noisy when they pick them up. And you have tenants. You're going to have tenants and I guess there's tenants that exist already. So you know that you're not able to pick up garbage before 7:00. That is true. You know that and that happens. Okay. Yeah. It's a problem around me. So that's why
I'm very focused on that. Uh I have one other question. Um before I ask the question, I will just, you know, for the sake of full transparency tell you that my son very much likes basil.
But the reason I preface that is because the food at Basil is rather pungent. And I'm wondering whether or not the people upstairs are going to be affected by the cooking downstairs. Well, we go to slide 10.
[Music] I didn't go into this in maybe enough detail, but on slide 10 here inside this trash enclosure or not trash enclosure um equipment enclosure, we have two kind of split system units for the apartment. One would service this apartment, this
rear area of the apartment. This split system would service this. And then if you recall on the second floor, I have a shaft designed right here to relocate their existing um RTU rooftop unit. These ducts go down right now into the bathroom of the
restaurant. And then there's um there's sophets where those ducts go out. But the other piece of equipment the restaurant has is a a large fan right here. And so we've routed this, this is an exhaust fan which will pull up kitchen um kitchen
grease and and fumes and smells. So that's the purpose of this unit here. So I think I don't think that it would be all that stuff will be getting extracted up to the roof, I think, rather than
into the second floor. Um the floor assembly also maybe we could go to Slide 13. The floor assembly is quite thick here. This is the existing roof, but we're
going to be building all this area that's hatched in. And so, we can do certain things. I'm not quite sure what they are um off the top of my head, but I can look into what those would be. Um, you know, there's sound transmission things you can do, but I don't know about smell. I can we can look into that
for sure as part of a um Yeah. So those RTUs that are on the roof, those don't have any fresh air intake. Correct. The the rooftop unit would have a fresh air intake. It has a supply and a return. And the two split systems
wouldn't be. Those would be compressor units. Okay. So the splits for the apartment, right, aren't going to bring in odors or whatnot from the restaurant, at least through that that means. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Okay. How
close So I think this is to the east. How close are any operable windows or on the adjacent property near where you're going to exhaust the restaurant at 115? No. Oh, at the other the other
way. The other way. Right. Because you're moving the restaurant exhaust stack from the rear of the property to roughly the middle of the property and elevating them. Slide two shows a picture of the other. So we're
talking back here. Um that from my recollection of being on the roof to measure this is set back about as far as the existing apartment was I believe. So that would be back in the the one/ird the rear third of the
property. And sorry it's a multi-art answer. I'm just looking. Take your time. It's hard to say. I guess I can't say. Um the the exhaust would be somewhere in
the middle of this depth of the lot. And this window that we're seeing right here is about the rear third. And then it's that's giving us one dimension away from the fan. This dimension I can't really say. I don't know the width of this lot
and I don't know if that's dead center from there, but it's a certain distance away, you know, um east and west as well. Um, I'd hesitate to give an estimation on how far it is. Can you can you look into
that? Yeah. And and then work with our engineer and decide if that's an appropriate distance. Sure. And whether there needs to be any sort of odor mitigation installed on it if it happens to be too close or you can't rearrange it to be further away. Yep. No problem.
Thank you. And I think, you know, um maybe could you go to slide 10 again? I think we have some flexibility where I said I I designed the shafts a certain way. So this would be where it is, but
where the actual fan is, I think we could it could be ducted to be closer to the front, you know, so we can move it away. There's some flexibility there. Yeah. And just, you know, same with 115. Make sure it's not too close to anything over 115, whether it's the front terrace, rear terrace. Yeah, I know
there's no windows along 115 anywhere here. And there is a terrace right here. So, this would be this would be the closest window. Okay. Just counselor. So, um you have duckless splits, right? Yes. Yeah. So, where does the drainage from the splits go that are
in the in the apartment? You know, there's a, you know, a hose usually that goes like the condensation. Yeah. Because it's not outside, right? They're on, they're not on an outside wall. They'd be on an inside wall, right? Well, the compressor units are what gets the Yeah, the compressor units, but no,
I think the other things strip as well. Oh. Um, well, I mean, we we haven't designed a mechanical system. Someone would do that. And I'm I don't know for certain, but I don't know for certain how those get drained, but it would be no different than it would be in your house. You
know, well, usually in the house, usually it's on an outside wall, but they're not gonna But it's routing somewhere probably to It's just routed outside. No, just drips outside. You can put just a tube directly. You can put a high, right?
So, you're going to have to figure that out. I guess that's all I'm saying. Yeah. And one more point on the drainage. Um, we talked about it a little earlier. I looked on the mapping that I have available. Um doesn't there's not appear to be any storm sewer uh at least
municipally owned in the parking lot. So if there was to be there's no drainage provided it would have to be in the form of a privately owned drywall. Okay. Thank you. Mhm. Other questions from the board. Are there any questions from the public
for this witness about his testimony tonight? Problem doing the drywall. I see none. All right. I just would like to um have Mr. Patel, if you could come up. Um might as well stand at the podium, I
guess. I just have a few questions. Um I think some of which have already been answered. Um Okay. Um just with respect to the the restaurant um on the first floor of the bu building um what are the hours of the restaurant? Do
you know? So they open uh 11 to 10 uh for lunch and dinner. Okay. And do you do you know how many employees they have? uh three full-time and two part-time. Okay. And do you know um
whether those employees uh drive to work and if so where they park? As far as I know, they all come in a train. I think I'm not I have not seen uh they have they do bring one car for delivery because they personally deliver
but I don't know who drives or anything. Okay. But all the employee usually comes in a train uh from I think they live in Queens or something. Okay. Um and with respect to the existing uh apartment on the second floor, is there someone occupying that
apartment today? Yes. Right now the single guy living in there, he he works in city and he doesn't have car. Doesn't have a car. Yeah, we don't have parking. Okay. Rented yet. And um what about the just for comparison
purposes, you've got two apartments above uh the liquor store, correct? And are those both two-bedroom apartments? I don't Yes. And and how many vehicles do each of those tenants have? Do you know? Uh one car each. One car each. Do you
know where they park? So we uh same like we had a buy the night permit. So we have two night permited to them. Okay. And the daytime they work so I guess they take the car with them but they don't park like in weekend plus night
permit is a you can park Friday to Monday in a municipal lot. Mhm. So they weekend their cars are there but weekdays I have not seen. Okay. And do you intend to purchase an additional night permit for uh the expanded second
floor apartment at 17? For sure. Yes. And you and you agree to maintain that permit. Yes. Continuously and renew it. So it's Yes. always enforce and available for whatever tenant would be occupying that space. Okay. Um that's
all I have. Mr. Chairman, question from the board for this witness. That permit is an evening permit. That's the that you're talking about even permit. Night permit. Doesn't take it doesn't take spaces from daytime.
Correct. correct to have to the permit is from 5:00 at night or 7 o'clock 7 to morning 7 to 8 in the morning. So if one point is available
yes night permit is available uh like we always have somebody coming and night night permit is definitely available for day permit there is a 12 12 year wait period in a watching plaza right for sure right that's why I was wondering
about the possibility of going across the street and making a new friend we have tried numerous time and he won't not. Okay. And the township won't sell you one either. No. Township already has like I think
13 spots for day permit and if there's no more available period. Thank you. You're welcome. Other questions from the board? Any questions from the public for this witness?
I see none. We have no further witnesses or evidence to present. So, okay. Um, any comments from the public on this application as a whole? I see none.
Well, very briefly, Mr. chairman, I think, you know, you see clients are intending to spend some money to improve this property similar to what they've done to the adjacent property. Um, and um the only variances that are needed,
again, we have a pre-existing condition, which we can't do anything about with the 100% impervious. uh the additional apartment or the additional bedroom creates the additional parking demand or parking requirement of 1/5if of a parking space.
Um you know it's unfortunate but you know just the way that the watch plaza was developed there's just no um you know parking available but we're purchasing an additional night permit um which should be adequate. I think the
likelihood is that anybody living in this location, although the requirement of the ordinance I think is two parking spaces, I think the more likely requirement is, you know, or more likely demand would be one car for someone choosing to live in that location. So,
um, you know, I think, um, we're we're doing the best we can, um, to, uh, to meet the parking requirement and, um, you know, I think we've indicated a willingness to work with the engineer regarding the drainage concerns and and
the odor mitigation and, uh, anything else that would have any potential, you know, adverse impact on the neighbors. So, and my clients have been property owners and and business owners in Wong Plaza for quite a long time. They have
an interest in maintaining the quality down there and in this case improving um the uh you know the environment for the community. So, I would hope that the board would look favorably on this application. Thank you.
Thoughts from the board? I think overall it's an improvement uh to the property. I appreciate um taking into consideration the HPC's comments. Um and uh I do agree with councelor Lachman
about concerns about the light, but it's meeting code. Um and I think overall it's uh again it's an improvement. I'm generally supportive. I'm enthusiastically supportive. I think you're doing a a nice job with the
property. It will blend in with the other bu businesses there, the other buildings. Um it's nice to have a bigger unit. We need more space in our housing. I think at times I think that uh I would happily support this.
Mayor, um I agree that I think it's um a wonderful improvement and I'm going to support it, but I I would really like to find out if there's a way that you can write in to the lease that the people won't have a car because while we sit
here, I'm so familiar with what it is and it continues. And so we leave here and even if they get a night permit, that car is going to have to park somewhere during the day. And then the council is the one that has to bear that responsibility of trying to find um a
problem, you know, trying to find a parking space for that individual. And I'm wondering if you can write something that the person cannot have a car because whoever comes in there people I remember 208 when I first came on the council, right? And we were
starting to look at the um transit villages and places that were near train stations and people kept saying, "Well, nobody will have a car." Well, since that time, we know that that's not true. You know, mostly people do have cars. So, it might be helpful if your tenant
does not have a car so that we don't have to then try to figure out what to do with your tenants's car. Not to defend parking. Um, cuz that would really ruin my reputation in this place. Um, but I I I
think I'm in favor of not making any requirement in either direction. Right. So, so while I I don't see any need for mandating a parking requirement, I also wouldn't see any need for mandating that parking not be provided. Um because
that's up to the property owner and the tenant to figure out and and and so long as in the township is in the business of offering permits period, right? Like that is going to be a problem the township faces. Um whether it wants to make that easier or more difficult is something within the purview of the
council and the administration. and I, you know, welcome any and all parking discussions happening at that level. Um, but I wouldn't I wouldn't be in favor of any sort of requirement in either direction, though. Otherwise, I I'm a big fan of the application. So, Mr.
Tremulac, does the applicant have any position in that regard? Well, I don't I don't know how you enforce the requirement that a tenant doesn't have a car. I mean, any tenant is going to know that if they have a car, they're going to have to make arrangements as to where they park it, you know, and, you know,
maybe they rent a a spot, you know, on a private property, you know, somewhere in the immediate vicinity. Um, you know, but they're going to know, you know, when they when they come to lease the property, do I have a parking spot? The
answer is no, except you'll have a night permit, but otherwise you'll have to make make your own arrangements. I understand that, Attorney Trimolac, and I appreciate that. Um, and maybe if that's in writing, because what we get is all the people that move into places
and know that they have no parking. As soon as they're in there, they come running in here and demand that we find parking. And then they Nobody ever told me. That's what they like to say. Nobody ever told me I didn't have a parking space. So perhaps if you would put in writing that parking does not come with
that and no. So right now for 115 we have all our both lease says we don't provide day parking. We only give them one night permit for one car. And so that's in writing in the le. It's that's
how it is written. That's uh they basically each tenant I seen them take car before 8 to go somewhere. I'm not 100% sure where they work or anything, but I have not. And also other
thing the township does now lately. It's on app. So they can purchase the whole day spot, right? I'm not sure how it works, but they if they want to leave the car, they go to the meter and I think they pay through the app for whatever $10 a day or something. And
then I seen people do it like even people go to Wang Plaza and take a train they park in our park back parking and they literally use the car and they go to Manhattan or wherever they go but car is still there all day. So there is a way I don't know how old days used to be
meter so people have to literally come not anymore but the tenant that we have it's written in a lease that we don't provide any day parking. No I and I appreciate that. So I a a great note of gratitude for you for putting that in
there because that way if they come to me as soon as they get into your very lovely apartment here and tell me I didn't know I can ask them to bring the lease in and and I can show them right here where it says that. So thank you so very much. I really like this um a lot
and I'm sure it's going to improve and enhance the neighborhood. I also like the restaurant there. This is good information to get. I mean, the parking utility should take note of this that those um those parking spaces should not be reservable on an app all
day long. That should No. So, whoever is in charge of that um should stop that because that's exactly that's not the purpose of that of that. It's for shoppers. I think the app does limit. Well, he just said they're there all
day. We lately I seen they still have to move it around. I I Oh, I don't know that. Yeah. Okay. The app does limit like when you maxim when you max out on parking, it will not let you extend, but it can't let you it can't stop anybody
from like not extending, going to another spot, maxing out if it's a different spot. It just conflicts with he he he indicated that that go to Manhattan. I was reacting to that lately after the app. We seen car park all day in watching plaza parking. I don't know
how they do it. Either they have two different app and some there's some technique but we seen car park you might have people just nearby plugging the meter right it might not even be through the app which is something that you can't actually prevent anyway right
unless you know I you can if you have a patrol person right going around all the time I think we need to look into this because you might be correct there might be two different naps and so they could 100 so they could do one for a couple hours that came in system but it isn't
It it isn't how it's structured as opposed to loving but they help finding they're finding loopholes in some way. Let's get them. Well, I don't think that's our perview, but
[Laughter] but you know, our town officials have taken note. So, so noted. Anyone else want to be heard? noted and forgotten. Um I think it's pretty straightforward and suggest that
we vote on it. Yeah. So I make a motion. Yeah, I'll make a motion to um approve this application. Second with the conditions that we've already discussed with the applicant and they've agreed to which is uh evaluating the rear rear storm water at least the ones I have and you correct me Mr. Nice or anybody else
if I missed these. evaluating the rear storm water, you know, including putting in a dry well. Uh looking at the kitchen exhaust and distance to operable windows and nearby folks. Um you're going to purchase that overnight parking pass. You're going to formalize your dumpster agreement with the UPS store and all the
folks that use it. What other uh there was a at least the uh looking into the possibility of some sort of mitigation for smell smells. feeling anxious. Yes. Yes.
Okay. So, that's the motion, I guess. And that's the motion. Thank you. Is there a second for that motion? Yes. Second by the mayor? Yes. Any discussion? No. All those in favor? I opposed.
Extensions. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Mr. Chair, can we take a short break? I would say let's take a five minute break. Application. 5 minutes is more than free. Okay. Rest. Sorry,
done that. Too old for that. Still the previous application. All right, everybody. Still previous application. Let's let's get back here and I was gonna say that continue moving. those two things. I just wanted to He's
tired. Good. Anyway, welcome, Miss Tally. He's here again. Um, I think we need to swear you in as a board professional. Okay. Miss Tally, do you solemnly swear or
affirm that the testimony that you may give during this hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Would you please state your full name for the record? Uh Janice Tally, I work at 205.
Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so next up we have the application 2919225 Lorraine Avenue. Okay, good evening again. Uh same same parties for a different application.
You too. Okay. Same road show and and it's similar application in many respects. So again, for the record, Alan Tremulac appearing on behalf of the applicants, Marello and Patricia Rodeo, who are the
owners of 220 225 Lorraine Avenue. Um I think some of you at least will remember we were before this board about a year and a half ago. This is the Malign Malign Chromeberg property. Um
again Lraine A 225 Lraine Avenue. Um the clients have owned this property for a number of years. The business has been there for a very long time. Um, we came before the board, like I said, about a year and a half ago. Memorializing
resolution was February of last year. Um, and we obtained site plan approval to add a second floor addition above the uh the cleaners. Um, clients have decided, well,
we're going to do that. you know, they'd like to add a third floor um which would contain one additional two-bedroom apartment. So, we're here tonight basically seeking uh an amendment to the previously
approved uh site plan again to simply add a third floor with a two-bedroom apartment. Um, as I think you'll hear, there are really no other changes proposed whatsoever to the plan that was approved by the board. Um, and of
course, you know, we have a parking variance, but I think we've, you know, you'll hear that we've, um, uh, you know, we're able to satisfy the increased parking demand created by this additional um, uh, apartment. So, um,
and there's another pre-existing variance for pre-existing set, uh, non-conforming setback, which we're not changing. We're just adding additional height to the building. Um, so that's the nature of the application. Um, and
um, similar to the last application, we have Ryan Robertson uh, to take you through his presentation and then some brief testimony from uh, one of my clients. So, I guess Ryan, you need to be sworn in again for this application.
Fast applic Oh, yeah. I'm going to do the exhibits first. Mark the exhibits. A1 is the application. A2 is the certification of taxes paid. A3 is the proof of
publication. A4 is the affidavit of service. A5 is the architectural drawings prepared by GSAPC revised April 8th, 2025. A6 is a survey prepared by Richard Hingo
Incorporated dated June 3rd, 2019. A7 is the report from the HPC dated April 4th, 2025. A8 is the report from the development review committee and dated June 11th, 2025.
A9 is the planning report from the planning department dated June 11th, 2025. And I guess this presentation we can mark as A10. Now, sir, do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth? I do. Would you please state your full name and business affiliation for the record? Ryan Robertson from Gregory Schwitzer Architects um 7 Oak Place Monlair. Ryan, is it safe to assume that your
license hasn't been revoked or suspended in the last hour and a half? You've been testifying. That being the case, I would offer him as an expert in the field of architecture. Mr. We'll accept him. Thank you. All right,
Ryan. Um, you know, you've prepared a J. Did you mark the um I'm sorry, got distracted. The PowerPoint, right? It's A10. It's A10. Thank you. All right, Ryan. Um, would you walk the board through the plan similar to what you
just did in the prior application utilizing the uh PowerPoint presentation on the screen? Thank you. Yep. Uh this is the presentation for 225 Lraine Avenue in Montlair. The applicant is Marchello Rodeo sitting behind me here.
Uh he's owned this business since 1990 and as Mr. Trenilak said, we were here a year and a half ago in January of 2024 and received approval um for a very similar presentation. So as I move through um I'll be mindful to state what
slides are basically what has been already approved just so that to keep in your mind. And I know there's some people that weren't weren't here at the time, so I will give some detail. Um, but there'll be probably more detail on the slide than I'll mention, so we can come back if they're during the questioning portion if we need to. Um,
here is the site survey. Um, one of the exhibits was the property survey by Richard Ingos, June 3rd, 2019. Here's the property on the corner of Valley near the corner of Valley Road in Lraine Avenue. It's a 66 ft x 59 ft trapezoidal
shaped lot. This is the extents over here. And this is an open parking lot. This is the out outline of the building. It's located on the north side of Lraine Avenue between Valley Road. It's 70 ft from the corner and Valley Road to our property. And the lot is currently
improved with a one-story brick and stuckle building and this paved parking area right here. the existing parking um partially extends into the ride ofway right here. You'll see on a future slide here. It's pretty terrible and our application fixes that. The parking
configuration hasn't changed from what we presented before and what was approved. Um there is an increase in demand though. Uh next down arrow. There you go. So, here is um a Google Street View
image taken from October 2021. This was part of our previous presentation. And you'll notice there was a tree right here. If you go to the next slide, a more recent Google Street View. That tree has since been removed. So, this is a much more recent image. Um it's taken in September 2024.
You can see uh our neighbor here is um the veggie heaven restaurant and there's a little alley here which is part of the subject properties property. So um the application is to infill this area with a stairwell um to get the second second
floor apartment and third floor apartment. That was ex that was what we proposed before and to improve this um parking area right here. You can see it's diagonal. Um it's really hard to back out onto Lraine. you got to kind of do a 270°ree turn. And we'll look at
that when we see the um the next uh slide. Other thing I'll say here is um this property right here is a um two and a half story woodframe building that's a dental office. And then beyond that to
the east is the residential zone. Um of course to the to the west is valley. And uh the subject building is brick and stuckco with a wood shingle mans roof concealing the flat roof. And so here are some rear views and the
alley view. This is the alley I just pointed out on the last slide. But standing at the rear of the property looking out towards Lraine. This is the rear looking west. And this was taken quite some time ago, 2019. This tree has also since been removed and that was an
important part of our application. Um the property line at this part right here is important to note. This corner to the property line is 2 foot n and then behind me where we're standing, the corner of the building would be somewhere right here. It's 2'11 from the
property line. Next slide. Here's an aerial context image showing um the surrounding area. This is a Bing satellite 3D view from 2023. Um I should have mentioned the block and lot. number. It's block 1809, lot 2. Um
here's Veggie Haven, which which we saw in the other photos, Valley Road, the William Sonoma building, Kitty Corner from Veggie Heaven, and the um A Toz Auto Service and Tire Shop. And right around the corner on Valley is the previous Saunders Hardware, the former
location, um which was the previous location of Mullan Cronberg. um that happened actually I have that information that was um Mullen Crowberg was located right here at Saunders Hardware in 1911
and it moved to 225 in 1940. Next slide. The previous application was to construct the second story addition with the one dwelling unit as we mentioned. Um this amended application being presented as a third story for another dwelling unit and a a partial roof
terrace. Um these this info I'm about to mention is info carried over from the previous application. We had proposed one electric vehicle charging station which is right here that is to remain in our new proposal. The uh trash and recycling
enclosure was located here and we are not proposing any change to that. It's underneath a second story overhang. Um we are repaving the parking lot and restriping for six tandem spaces. This whole parking configuration as I said did not change. You can see the dotted
lines of the of the old um diagonal parking and a partial partial stripe that goes onto the rightway onto the sidewalk. As I said, it's really bad for parking and it's it's difficult for people to come in and out. And what we
proposed um will greatly improve the traffic flow in this area and will help with things on Lraine as well. Um the six parking spaces shown here. Um I numbered them 1 2 3 in the rear. 456
right here. 16.13 spaces are required by the ordinance. Um existing there is four striped and three unmarked spaces and we're proposing these six but with one credit for the EV. So seven.
Uh the applicant will purchase two or I believe has purchased two overnight parking permits for the new apartments. Um the intended use of these three rear spaces is different than it was in the previous application. Before we had
talked about um there's a delivery van that was going to be kept right here and then this was going to be for apartment or employees and um tenants. But now the this space is now opened up. The delivery van is no longer going to be stored here. It's going to be parked
offsite at all times. It comes and picks up items to deliver and leaves and goes on its route throughout the day. Um, so these three spaces will be for one for the second floor tenant, the middle one for the top floor tenant, and then reserving a third one for
family use. U Marello Rodeo behind me, and his son Leonardo isn't sitting in front of him. He's going to take over the business someday. works on the business and so this would kind of be a flex flexible space for their family to use. The three that we proposed in the front the same as the previous
application will be for people coming and going quickly stopping in to drop off their dry cleaning and quickly leaving. Um this is similar to the um similar to the other application that we just heard where we are also planning on
framing over top of the existing roof. It's important for this applicant as well to make sure we keep the dry cleaner operational at all times. So we're confident we can do that as well here. Um, and there there's a dashed line right
here of the existing rear yard setback. So, this portion right here is not in compliance. We're proposing to build on on the footprint below. So, it's a it's a continuation of the um variance. Next slide, please.
This slide shows all all information that was part of the previous application as well. So, I'll go over it very quickly. Um, we have new planting area proposed along the right here. Um, there's going to be new signage and new
sight lighting, new peak area back here for snow storage and for a a kind of emergency path because we're closing off this area as is our right on our property line. There is a rear back of house area in these two restaurants. And so, as a courtesy, we'd like to give
them a place to escape in case they ever needed to. So part of it was to remove that tree which was already gone now. It's to relevel the grade back here and have a peg gravel path to get someone to safety if they needed it. Um there's some existing um arborites in the back and we're
removing a few of them and we're adding um plantings over here which I can go over in more detail later. Um the planting strip area is 3 foot five and a half inches right here. And it's
um I'll just go over it real quickly. It's five Carolina rose shrubs which are deciduous. They only grow to 3 ft tall. That's to help with visibility as you come in and out of the parking space. These are evergreen shrubs which are um shamrock ink berries. 18 of them in
total. They grow a little taller, 42 in to 48 in and spaced 3 foot wide. The red dots you see here are that pedestrian I'm sorry, the red arrows are intended for tenants and employees to use. Um the
green arrows are intended for the um pedestrian traffic coming in and out from a parking sp space to drop off your dry cleaning and the red dots are for that emergency path that I just said. Um, one change on this slide here that
is a change from the previous application and it was mentioned in Miss Tally's memo um was to remove remove what we had proposed out at the front. We were painting some curbs for for um drop off delivery and a
curb for handicap parking and it was recommended to not move forward with that. So that is not part of the application anymore. um that was going to have to go through the um city council. And another thing that has not changed
is the impervious coverage. Um the previous application, we increased the um the condition a little bit. Only 80% is allowed and we dropped it from an existing 94.6 impervious to 94.33 and there's no change in what you're seeing here from
what was previously approved. Next Next, we'll move to the floor plans. I think you want one. There we go. I'm sorry. Can you go back? I I didn't c catch what you said about the curving that was part of the original
application and now is gone. Sure. So, can you go back one slide? The previous site plan, right where this tree well is, we had designated a a spot here. We also had some some signage proposed for um no parking loading zone only, that
kind of signage to go right here. And the other one was a handicap parking space. Um I don't remember which order it was. One, it was one or the other. So one curb was painted blue and one was painted yellow. Um we were told that that would have to go
before was it the mayor and the city council? Yeah, this was dealt with at the prior application where the you know there's a footnote in the approval resolution, Mr. Nice, that uh that the striped loading area was proposed, but given the constraints of Lorraine Avenue, it was deemed unlikely the
council would create either a loading zone or a handicap parking space there. So the comment that is actually I think in the uh oh memo DRC from the development review committee just requesting that that be removed from the
plan since it's no longer part of the plan after the last application. Thank you. So on the floor plans here this is um this slide is unchanged from what was approved uh but I'll go over it quickly.
It's the existing drag cleaning area. The only change we propose is kind of the um cabinetry in the front to create a sales area. And this is currently the tailoring area. It's it's inadequate because one, it's too small. Two, you're
on display. Like it's just storefront windows right there. So, it's not great. The part of the original application was to move tailoring up to the second floor. That was the whole the main driver of the last application. And then there was room for an apartment that was all approved. And now that remains actually the second floor is is the same
as the last application just as the first floor is. The third floor is really the big change that we're presenting to you today. But I'll just go over what we've got here um in a little more detail. This is the trash and recycling area that we had proposed previously. No change uh reconfigured customer service area. No change to the
previous new storefront system. Uh the first floor is 1,818 square ft. Um, and the the dry cleaner itself is 1,690 uh with the 128 ft addition. The
addition right here is that infill in the um alley which again was part of the last application getting you up to the second floor. Next slide. The second floor again here is unchanged from the previous approval with a couple minor adjustments. Uh the stairwell here
used to wrap around and go up to a green roof. Now it will go up to a third floor apartment with its own private terrace. Um and at the request of the HPC, we had we had a pretty unattractive rear elevation because because of those
distances I gave you when we were in the alley u less than 3 ft to the property line, you're not allowed to have windows. And so it was kind of a blank stuckle facade and the HPC urged us to try to do something more about it. So when you see the rear elevation um
you'll see that we found a way to be able to meet code and add some windows. So we have some windows, we have some brick banding now and the rear is a lot more attractive than it was when we presented to the HPC a few months ago. Um that was a change and
the only other change was yeah I guess where the stairwell is leading but other than that this is remains what we showed before. This is a tailoring area with um a place for sewing, a little changing room, a little
um kitchenet and a private washroom for the patrons who are coming for tailoring services. Marella would have a private office with his own washroom and then the remainder is a one-bedroom, one bath apartment with a den. The den's located
back here. Next slide. That last floor was 224 ft. And this third floor is new. This is not what was the board has seen yet. Um the stairwell comes up to a landing where we have a roof hatch. um and a
ladder getting you up to the roof. You enter into a open living dining area with a kitchen. And we've we have a a bedroom similar to the layout below, a bedroom located right here with its own onsuite bathroom. Um I believe Miss
Tally told us to change this to a bedroom. We were calling this a den just like the room below, but in actuality, this this apartment unit has its own second bathroom. So, I think she's right. this will most definitely be used as a bedroom. So, and that that was reflected
in the parking demand calculation to call this a two-bedroom. So, that changes it from like a 1.8 space is needed to 2.0. And um just off of the kitchen is a little pantry area.
And then um the this unit has its own kind of private terrace. Um we have a brick parapit wall that's 42 inches and it's interrupted by metal railings where we would have some decorative plantings and then um two potted trees the species
to be determined. Everything would be secured to the roof so nothing can blow off in a storm and um this third floor dwelling unit is 1,29 ft and the total third floor is 1443 ft.
Yeah. And on the roof, the next slide, we have that roof hatch right here that leads to the equipment area which is screened with a um this detail right here, which is an inverted aluminum louver fin system that will be
approximately 42 in tall. And u you're just seeing the terrace below right here. Next slide. The next slides are our proposed elevations. So, these look quite a bit different than what was presented last time. Um,
just because when you're adding the third floor, it's going to look a lot different. And then some back and forth with the HPC. Um, changes in materiality. And we changed the window configurations, which later on I'll have a slide, a comparative slide, so you can see what was approved and what we're
presenting. And I think it's um, we all think it's an improvement what you're seeing here, and I think the HPC did too. The materials are a red brick to match the existing. Um there's like brick right here on either side and we're going to try to match that color. Um we
have stucco accents in a light brown beige color which is at the windows on the third floor and this entrance the to the third floor apartment. We propose um brownstone lentils and sills which I'll show you an image of
that and black windows, black storefront, black metal railing at the roof. And on this south elevation, you see the top of these potted trees right in this area. Uh you see the decorative plantings behind the metal railing. The upper floor, this face of the wall
is set back maybe about 10 feet and then this face is set back even further. And we have proposed LED sign lights. It's an unilluminated sign, but these are three kind of modern gooseenecks shining onto that sign. On the other
facade, which you'll see later, facing the parking lot, there's a smaller sign that has two of the same lights. And uh that's all exactly as proposed before. There's a fabric awning that was proposed before. The signage is the same as proposed. The lighting is the same. Two wall sconces, those are the same as
proposed before. I have images of those um coming up. The storefront system and configuration has not changed either. What has changed is how much of the brick is here and the level of detailing. Previously, this was brick that just kind of ended and it was a
stucco kind of simple um austere kind of look with some seams and now it's got more detail and I think it it fits in more with the u neighborhood. Um the top of the parapit here is um
33.9 ft. I'm sorry that's to the top of the the roof which is slightly below that parapit and that was lowered at the request of the HPC. We were showing this I think 18 in higher and we just reduced the ceiling height and did some other tweaks to get it down to uh 33.9.
And then this is a rendered view of the southwest corner. Seeing what you're seeing. And next slide, please. This is the east elevation coming up. And here again, you see the potted trees in the distance back here. The metal
railing, the brick parapit. You see the dash line of the AC units, air conditioner units up on the roof hidden behind that screen. The signage. Again, this is what we proposed. Everything on the first floor right here is what was approved before. It was the brick facade
with the soldier course leading to this uh metal enclosure for the recessed area and the trash enclosure that all remains. These windows the locations are roughly the same, but we've kind of changed how they look and changed it to brick. And then when we originally
presented to the HPC, the third floor was going to be stuckco and we were urged to change it to brick. So that's what we see now. It's a much more cohesive um facade design. And I think uh the trash enclosure is located under
this overhang. And the height from that to the bottom of that is 7 foot6 unchanged from previously presented. And next slide please. Should be the rear elevation that I was talking about. This was presented. this the bottom is
exactly as it is currently exists with the three windows. Um and then we had just presented basically all stuckco because we weren't allowed to put these windows in but because of the thickness of the wall we're able to get to the code required minimum to allow a certain
size window opening and so we are able to provide these three windows which helps with the uh elevation a lot. It was pretty blank before. Just a question. Yes. What's behind uh each of these windows? The building. No, no, the building. Is that somebody's Is that a
residential home that's right there? What's behind right here? It's a It's a multifamily. Yeah, multif family home. What do you mean? Like the What can see this? Yeah. What can see that? It's a multif family and it's also an office
mixed use. It's got office and is that the realtor's security? What is it? security. PE security. Okay. Um let's see.
Then also we we had this diagram that we showed previously um that showed how here we're looking at the u it would be the west facade and showing how the path how they would um escape from the back of house areas and these two restaurants. The red is veggie heaven
and you would go out through here behind our building. Next slide, please. The west facade um shows the dotted lines of those two adjoiners that we just saw in this diagram here. Those are um 361 and 3 I'm sorry, 631 and 631A
Valley Road. um exiting underneath our new proposed stair and through the to the rear. This facade has not changed except for the addition of the third floor and the brick banding that you see that goes horizontally. Next slide.
And this page shows certain site improvements all of which were part of the the prior approval. These are the two wall sconces on the first floor flanking the storefront entrance. These are the external um down lighting for signage. There would be three on the front, two facing
on the sign that faces the parking lot. One EV charging station and the perimeter, I'm sorry, the perimeter uh plantings I already talked about. And the trash enclosure detail um talked briefly about in the elevations, but this hasn't changed from what we
presented. It's aluminum. And next slide. This is the previously approved signage. Um, we can go over these signs uh if we need to during the questions. They they're in compliance now. And here's just what
they look like in the context of the southwest view. Next slide. This is just a slide that we presented to the HPC talking about our um proposed materials. We used this image here of
the beveled stucco recess at the openings as a reference for what we were trying to do on the third floor. We were asked to change it to um brick the third floor. So we are we are doing brick but we are still going to do a bevel in stucco as you see in this
rendering this section of the rendering. Uh next slide. It's a good design. Oh it didn't print. I was going to say that one didn't print at all. Yeah. Yeah. Um, did this one print? This one prints. What? Can you go back to the other one?
Because I was trying to figure out if I missed 18, right? Yeah. 18. Yeah. 18. Okay. Yeah, that's the one that didn't print. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. These are just kind of diagrammatic models showing how this recess looks for these two windows
which show up in the rendering. This is a better image of how it's recessed in, but it's a lot like this. Instead of this outside face being stuck, the outside face we're proposing is brick. And um here, this would be brick. This recess here comes to like a knife's
edge, and that would be stuckle. But everything else in this model here is brick. So, what's the depth of the recess? 4 in. Pardon me? 4 in. 4 in. So, that allows you to get windows in. Uh I this this thickness right here is 4
in. So instead of a woodframe wall with brick, instead of brick, it would be packed out for stucco and then a a bevel, a 4-in bevel back to the window. You know how like how a window would how
a window in a brick facade would show this depth of a shadow line. We're trying to do that with stucco. Next slide. This was our um design inspiration for how to treat the tops and bottoms of the windows. We looked um in the area for
context. Right across the street from us is 629 Valley Road and they have these kind of lentils um which we didn't like how high contrast they were in color. Further down on Valley 621 Valley has
this kind of cream colored brick with a a grayish lentil. And so we were trying to do something here with um caststone lentils and sills in a brown color to complement the red brick. Next slide. And other brick detailing. I mentioned
that Mullan Croninberg was previously located in the Saunders hardware building which is here. And they had some that building has some interesting brick detailing up at the cornice. It's a a recess with herring bone pattern and then corbling out to a cornice. And we
decided to try to pay a little homage to the original home by treating our corner condition in a similar way just as a architectural reference. Next slide. This is the proposed streetscape.
Um, and you could see uh 36 ft three stories is what's allowed. We're proposing three stories but 34 1/2 ft to the top. And here is the uh the parking lot. Here's Veggie Heaven. And here's that dental office.
And next slide, please. These next three slides are really just for comparative analysis. So you can see um Oh, wait. What's it here? Maybe not this one. Can you go to the next slide? Yeah, I have one out of order. I'll go
back to that 22 in a second. Stay here. This was um just to compare your south elevation, what what was approved a year and a half ago to what we're presenting here left to right. So you could see the difference. I think it's a vast improvement. It is a little taller, but
it seems more applicable to the neighborhood. And then you can also see the east elevation, the difference between what was approved a year and a half ago to what we're proposing now. I mentioned that the second floor windows are in the same location, but just treated a little differently. The first floor remains the
same essentially and the third floor we squatten things down as much as we could and uh took the HPC's recommendation to do it it all in brick. And next slide. This is a comparison of the renderings.
On the left is the previously approved rendering from the southwest corner and the newly proposed rendering of the three-story building from the southwest corner. And it it is taller, but I think it it looks somehow almost not taller. Um, next
slide. Maybe actually we'll go back to to 22. Yeah, I think I just had this one out of order from what I was going to say. This is a um a photo our office took just the other day of the southwest corner. So
you can see the proposed rendering in good context with what exists right now and go to the final slide. We'll just end on the final slide which is just a an enlarged rendering and then we'll turn over to Mr.
Trembleac to discuss the variance requests. Um well before you do that uh you made reference to the HPC report and one of the comments I guess there were two comments in the report. One was to consider lowering the height of the third floor which you've done. Yes. And
then uh can you address the other comment in the HBC report? That was the uh to change the the third floor from we had presented stuckco. I don't have an image of what we presented to HBC, but it was brick first floor, brick second floor, stuck on the third floor with those
those bevels, right? And they requested we make it more consistent throughout the three floors. So, changing it to brick. Okay. So, you've addressed both of the comments in the HPC report, correct? Okay. Um, you already talked about the development review committee
report. Um I don't know that you need to discuss the variances and skeptic you've already indicated the parking variance and then um the other variance maybe you can just remind the board what that is is for the rear yard setback. Rear setback. Yeah. Could you go through? I
can. Sure. Yeah, we mentioned it briefly on this slide. Slide six on your handout, you'll be able to see the the dotted line of the rear yard setback. Um, which I don't remember. I think it's 25 ft. It probably says on the drawing, you have a
non existing building has a non-conforming setback of what is it 2.9 ft something like? Say again. The the existing one-story building has a nonconforming setback. of the building is of this entire depth
right here, right? Yeah. Right. So, the existing building is set back how far from the rear property line. Oh, it was um it was two 2 foot n here and 2 foot 11 here. Okay. Yeah. And you're proposing to maintain that same distance for the second and the third floor. Not
not encroaching any further um but maintaining the same non-conforming setback. That's right. Okay. Okay. And that and the parking variance are the only two variances that are required. Right. Okay. Um
I think that's all I have for Mr. Robertson. Mr. Chair. Questions from the board? Councelor. Yeah, I have a question. So, is there a wall behind where on the property line by your property? There's
no wall, right? Um, where can you explain where you're talking? On the north side. On the north side of your building. On the north side. Um, yeah, in the rear. Oh, yeah. In the rear. In the rear. A fence. Yeah, there's a fence. There's a fence, but there's not a wall, right?
Okay, right here. There's a good photo. So, that's the photo to the right is the rear wall. Okay. So, and this is a wood fence that is not on the the applicant's property. It's on the other property. Okay. So, I was just on Google and when
I go around the corner and I look at the property that I think your property of butts on the north side and you said it's a multif family house. It's a white building. It's a mixed use. So, there's also office. Yeah, an office. And then so and right now there's a lot of trees that separate
um that property from your rear side. But if there were no trees there, you're still looking at a pretty, you know, the the the rear facade without anything but stucco to me looks kind of drab. You wouldn't think about putting brick there.
Um, well, we because you can see it. I'll tell you why. You can see the house is set back. The the multif family house and business is set back. So, if the trees weren't there and you were walking along Valley Road, it strikes me that you could easily see the rear side of your property, the north side of it. And
it I don't know, to me, I don't like the idea that it's not dressed up at all. You could go on Google and you could see what I'm talking about. I think they actually put a sketch of what would be able to be seen on Valley
Road in their package. That's right. It's in the drawings. It's not in the presentation. Correct. So, so if you're going down the line of questioning, I also had similar question of what is what? Yeah. What does that look like? How much is visible? And then I also want to, you know, kind of tie that
together with the HPC's recommendation. You know, what do they mean by in case the third floor? I don't know, vice chair if you unfortunately I missed that meeting so I don't know what was discussed there because I I read in case I think all four sides
was would be you know the pen site meetings where they talked about wrapping it around but I don't recall the rear uh what we talked about for back there. So you're with you're with me on that. Yeah. That side should also be the same brick. I I mean because you're you're
entering you know the uh uptown as you're coming into that and you know you look up and as as I'm staring at what says what diagrams valley road from southbound lane you're going to see this building. Well, could if I could explain the three images on that sheet, please.
Detail three on A 103. The image to the left car reference. The blue car is parked right in front of the um the house that Miss Lachland is talking about. And it when we're right here, when the car, this is a Google Street View image. When you're right
here, you cannot see this addition at all. All you could see moving to the next. This is an estimation. Of course, I couldn't have really drawn accurately what it is, but that's an estimation of how much of the building you'll see. And you can see the blue car for reference in the corner there. We just passed that
blue car. And you're just catching a glimpse of it for a second because behind the blue car is an empty spot and a gray pickup. When you get to the gray pickup, you can see now you're in front of this restaurant. You can only just see the top of the parapit. So, I believe as you're driving, if you're
driving at 25 mph, you're only going to see this for a second. And really what you're seeing in that middle image is not so much the rear. It's the side more than the rear, right? No, I think you're seeing both. Yeah. I mean, I think the issue on Google is there's trees there,
so you can't really see it. Now, if that tree was not there, you could see it. That's true. And that's And if you're walking, yeah, you drive, you only see anything for a second, but if you're walking, and you know, a lot of people, it's a very walkable uptown. So I I I
don't understand why you wouldn't clad the back in the same brick as well just for visual interest and to be consistent. I mean even if you just did the second story because you can't see the first stories, you know, but or you mean you mean the third story? Sorry,
the second and third whatever. Yeah, you can't see Well, that that'd be a question. You know, in your estimation, Mr. Robertson, how much of that building do you see in that second detail? Is that just the third floor? Is that a little second and third floor too close
to tell? I I think it's too hard to tell, but I think in this image, if it's correct, I think you're seeing up to the the brick banding that I show in the west elevation. So, you're seeing the just the top of the second floor, but mostly you're seeing the third floor. And that's if this estimation is
correct, but So, it' be fair to say it's probably you're going to see some parts of the second and third floor. Yes, mostly third floor. just a little bit of the second floor, I would say. And also, this these cameras are mounted
on top of the on top of the Google car at I don't know what height. So, your your vantage point is lower than what we're seeing here, too. Well, I'm going off of what you provided. Yeah. So, you know, I I agree with what you said, but what you drew is kind of what I'm going right off of.
I don't know if we want to be a stickler about that, but Well, I'm curious. I mean, what color is that stuckco going to be? Is that something you would consider is putting brick around that? Um, we instead of the stucco. We can check with the applicant. I know I know our
office has learned recently that stucco is surprisingly expensive. Just as expensive as brick, we heard recently. There you go. So maybe maybe we could get pricing on that and look at it, but I don't I would maybe want to check with him before we would agree that it's condition. I mean, even if you did
something more attractive than a you know, a blank stuckle wall because it does look fairly plain, I have to say. Soviet housing. I don't know if I would go that far personally, but on the back it it does
look plain. One thing I would say is, well, maybe I shouldn't say it, but there are some very plain looking buildings right next to ours and across the street. Well, yeah, but have no charm or character or value. And, you know, we're creating a
much nicer building and this is our opportunity to get the best building possible. Can you do anything with the veggie heaven building while we're at it? It might not always be Veggie Heaven, though. If I recall the last hearing, they were unresponsive to all of your
letters. So, yeah, probably not. But, you know, that that being said, yes, maybe some of the other buildings are not as attractive, but you know, you're coming here looking for some approvals and you Well, and you also showed us, I mean, if
we didn't catch it on on our own, but you also showed us what this is going to look like from one of the main streets in that area. and stand a reason you want to make it look attractive similar to the rest of the building and the treatments that you're putting on the
front of it. I mean, maybe we could do a more precise study as well because this was just an ill for illust illustrative purposes to show I was trying to show for how quickly you would even see this with that middle image and using those
other cars as a reference. But I think it's deceptive. The um Google Street View cameras are deceptive. They're fisheyed. So, I could do a real study from the opposite side and take angles and see how much you would actually see. Um
might be might be cheaper for them just to do the brick. That's what I was wondering. I was like, how does that you know, not that cost is our consideration, but right. Okay. He's happy to do the brick. Okay. There you go.
Okay. I I assume that rear tree will be removed, right? That it has since been removed. Yep. And then how come the um the street tree was removed? Did it die or just the That's what I was going to ask about both of them. Why were both of them
gone? Yeah, it just died. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know what year? Last year it died. Any other question? Go. Mayor. Yes. Um, do you know how close the nearest handicap parking spaces to this location?
We had looked um during a prep call. There's no there's no handic handicap spaces on Lraine. Um, but right around the corner on Lraine is is the first like street parking space. The handicap the closest handicap space was in the
municipal parking lot kind of behind like Marcato, I think. Um, and I don't know the distance, but that's the closest one we could find on aerial maps. I'm just wondering if if you had any um
idea about why they they they chose not to to have one there. I mean, people, we really like to have accessibility in our township and if there's not a handicap parking space that's near to that location. Did they give you any indication, you know, why they didn't
want to have a handicap parking space there? Well, we would we would lose two parking spaces to do that were already deficient in parking. So, those first three spaces in the tandem space, we would have to make one of them a access aisle and one of them a handicap spot. So, you'd be losing two. you'd only have
one place for someone coming in for pickup, right? Because they can't use the access aisle or the handicap spot. And right now, how he operates, if he has someone that has disabilities or other physical conditions, they do kind of curbside. People will pull in and
call ahead and they can bring them in and out cuz they're really not coming in to enjoy the little lobby there anyway. So, um Oh, I thought that I thought the handicap spot was was going to be in front of the building there. So that was the 80s. Yeah. Oh that's that's what we
had proposed but I think Roberto I think you were here had some concerns or thought that that was to let me whether I believe avenue was not wide enough or andor it was too close to the valley road intersection. So we were not representing the board as board engineer
at the time when this application was previously heard. But I believe the question was raised at the DRC. We we looked at it. Yeah. So the so the code uh for on street handicap parking spaces requires that an on-site driveway and
parking lot not be available. So in this case because the application the property does have access to an on street parking lot. Uh they would be ineligible for an on street parking space because you should be able to provide that on street that that uh handicap accessible space within the lot
itself the parking lot. But the town could always create handicap. Absolutely. That's exactly what I'm thinking. Absolutely. Downtown and otherwise. Yeah. Yeah. I think the issue I think the issue though is that an on street handicap parking
space can be used by anybody doesn't necessarily serve the site itself. Correct. No, I and I think that's a good idea. We have um ad hoc committee that looks at parking and um so that might be something very interesting to look into
if there's no handicap parking on Lorraine um and if it could be utilized by anyone. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thanks. I believe we we did look in we did. Yeah. The part that having the proposal was to have handicap parking right in front of the
building and it was also too close to the intersection at that time. So maybe farther down on the Yeah, maybe like back in front of the dental building or somewhere. Okay. I mean, it's just something to think about. I mean, it's hard to see the sight line anyway
because it's very there's a short sight line and then I know this just from driving. It's you can't see. And people do park in front of the place illegally, you know, and Amazon and UPS, they park wherever they want. There's no parking. So, if you're going No, there isn't. They wanted a loading dock there
originally, and we said no, cuz you can't you can't drive and make the turn. It's really hard. Other questions from the board? Are there any questions from the public of this witness regarding their testimony tonight?
I see none. Thank you. All right. I'd like to call Marello Rodeo for some brief testimony. Can you do it? Shows the party. Good evening. Yeah. Good evening, sir. Do you solemnly swear or affirm
that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Would you please state your full name and your business affiliation for the record? Marello Rodeo. I own uh the property 225 Lin Avenue and I own also the business
at 225 Lin Avenue. Put your hand. Okay. Just in case, you testified at the uh before this board for the prior application for the approval of the second floor edition, correct? Yes. Okay. And you
talked about the parking at that time, right? Yes. By by the way, I think um you also indicated that there was a good chance that your son might actually rent the second floor apartment and he's involved in the business. Correct. Yes.
Is that still the expectation? Yeah. He liked the third floor if he could because it's a little better. But one of Yeah, the third floor will be better for him. Okay. He said that's what he says anyway. and and he he works at the store on a daily basis. Yes, he
does. And again, he's likely to occupy one of the apartments. Yes. Okay. So, um you see on the screen there, it shows the six parking spaces. Um and if you recall,
um as part of the prior application, we had indicated that one of those spaces would be utilized by the van that um is owned by the store to make deliveries. Correct? Yes. Okay. Now, since that
time, you've made alternative arrangements for that van to park in another location. Yes. Okay. And so the band currently right now is is not parking on the property. So that's he will not be there when Okay. So that space would be available for someone
else. Yes. Okay. Um and you tend to make that space available to one of the tenants. That's why. Okay. Yes. And you indicated that one of the other spaces in the the rear of the tandem spaces
would be utilized by either you, your wife, or your son, one of you, as a parking space for Yes. basically staff at the store, if you will. Mhm. And the prior application indicated that the third space would would be dedicated to
this at the time the second floor tenant. Right. Yes. Right. And then the three spaces towards the street would be reserved for customer park customer in and out. Okay. So now you're um we're proposing instead of having one on-site
parking space for uh tenants, you're going to have two two. Okay. Um and one would be for each of the two tenants. Correct. Each apartment. Okay. Each apartment. Um and um have you also made
arrangements to obtain night permits from the town to be We already have them. You have? Yes. And how many? Two. Two. Okay. Yes. And um you do you agree to u maintain those permits going forward? Renew them and maintain them
and reserve you so that they're available for your two tenants. Yes. Building. Yes. All right. Um, attorney, I just have a question. I'm not understanding why if they have parking spaces, why they need night
permits. Um, well, because well, technically two spaces are required for each of the two apartments. Okay. All right. So, they need to come up with a few more. Well, we're we're trying to provide the two spaces even though again
given the location, given the size. Um, you know, it's more than likely that people renting there would not have two cars, but we're providing the two cars basically. You know, spaces, one on-site and one offsite for each of the two.
Okay, good. Apartments. So, that's the intention. I think that's all I have for Mr. Rodeo. Questions from the board. Questions from the public about this
witness's testimony? I see none. Okay, that's all we have, Mr. Chairman. No further witnesses. Does anybody from the public wish to make a comment on this application? Positive or negative? I see no one. Okay. Well, again, similar
to the last application, I you see I substantial improvements to this building approved by HBC. We've addressed incorporated all of HBC's comments. It's a very attractive building. Um, you know, for a business that's been there for a very long time,
almost a hundred years at this location and more than 100 years in the in the upper Montlair. Um and um you know I think you know as with the prior application with the night permits and then making arrangements for that van to
be located elsewhere we've freed up parking and made parking available for the tenants. Um and again the only other variance is a pre-existing condition. And again the applicant uh I think has agreed to uh uh you know all incorporate
all the comments we've previously received from the town and the town staff and also the comments tonight most significantly significantly uh you know providing for brick in the rear of the building as requested. So, um, you know, again, I think it's a good application
that, um, not only enhances this property, but enhances the upper Montlair business district. And, uh, I would hope the board would approve it. Okay. What does the board think?
Comments, thoughts? Uh, one, I'm curious if we approve it if in a year and a half we'll be back for a fourth story. Um, that would be the zoning board zoning, not us. Um, but I also I I think this application is an interesting touching on the mayor's point about the
night permits. Um, uh, it gives some context to our master plan statement about our parking minimums being more in line with those of a a car dependent suburb rather than the Montlair that exists. The the technical requirement here is 16 spaces, which I think the board would agree is kind of an
astronomical number um, for the use. And so just something to put out there as we discuss our land use and circulation element. Um, but I think it's a beautiful building. I like the thoughts of the brick. I'm not dying on that hill, but adding some beautifification there, whether it be the brick or maybe
a mural, depending on how, uh, on how visible it is, I think could be a lot of fun. But uh yeah, I would say I really uh appreciate the design and the call out, especially to the Saunders Hardware building and some
of the other um buildings you used for reference. I thought you did a beautiful job um with the facade. So, thank you for that consideration. Um I am slightly more concerned than Mr. name it about the uh parking. Um but considering this
business has operated there for 85 years and as Mr. Trem pointed out over 100 years in the neighborhood, uh they they know how to make uh the parking work for the business and I think um there's a reasonable solution in place for um the
tenants. So I'm generally supportive of this and I I really uh really like this design very much. Thank you. Go ahead, Mayor. Yeah, I just have um one more question. So, the three spots that are on this side that are reserved
for the people that will be coming to the business during the daytime, are they empty at night so that if the people in the apartments had another car, someone they could park there? Yes. At night time? Yes. Yes. So you So each
one of the apartments would have two parking spaces at nighttime, night time, presumably. Yes. Okay. Then then I'm um good with this. I really like it. I um agree with councelor Lachman and chair that I would I would like to see the
brick there. I think it would, you know, such a magnificent look in the front and I think that it would be great, especially if the cost is about the same to go ahead and put the brick all the way around it. But I like this Thank you. I do have one question I should have
asked before. Do you do deliveries? You deliver people's clean cleaning. So people aren't always coming to your store. So you bring stuff to them. So another reason why you probably don't need 16 parking spots. Okay. Yeah. I
like this very much. I'm not into murals. I uh think the brick if you do it all around especially if there's not so much of a cost differential it'll be nice because someday you might be able to see that a bit more um bit easier from Valley Road and people walk they do
not drive around that area anyway. So but thank you very much. It's a really nice application. I wish you luck with it. Thank you. I feel similarly. I mean I think it I think it makes sense the way you've outlined the parking and and how that would be accommodated. it makes sense
for this increased use. And I agree. I mean, I would imagine it's mostly short-term drop offs, you know, pickups and drop offs and also hearing that you all have delivery makes sense to, you know, there's not necessarily need for 16 parking spaces here. That does seem
astronomical to me. And I appreciate your flexibility on the the brick front because I think that is going to look a lot nicer as people are walking around uptown. Yeah. So, with that, I would move to Do you want to? No. Okay. I would move to
approve the application. I want a second with with the uh with the conditions that we've uh outlined here today, which is I think just the brick around the second and third floor on the back side. That's all I have. Okay. And with all
our our other normal conditions. Sure. Yeah. And there's a second by Councelor Lachman. Okay. All those in favor I opposed. Extensions approved. Thank you very much. Way to
go. Thank you board. Welcome. You're welcome. Yes. Good job. All right. Next up, we have a new business proposed amendment to chapter 347 zoning regarding ADUs. So I think Thanks.
Yeah. Yeah. So I think I think most board members are very familiar with this ordinance. Oh, my pleasure. There's a further further iteration that's been proposed for this ADU ordinance. I can't hear you
at all. [Applause] Hey folks, folks, folks in the audience, if you could continue your conversations out there, we still have some business to take care of. Mr. Trumbulac,
Mr. Trumbulac, I think he's trying to If you could take your conversations out back, we still have business we got to take care of. Thank you. So, so I understand most board members are very familiar with this ordinance.
Um, we recently amended it. This is a further amendment. It came as from the recommendation of one of the members of of the board of adjustment. Um, it also went through the economic development committee for a brief discussion and
simply it's to eliminate the maximum length uh for ADUs on any one side. As long as we have the maximum size of 800 square feet, by eliminating that 30 30 feet on any one side in length or width,
it gives a little bit more flexibility in terms of designing these ADUs without really increasing the without actually without any increasing the bulk. But is there any concern about abnormally shaped uh ADUs? I mean, could we have an
80 by10? Yes. Right. I mean, you could have a real uh odd design. Maybe you even have um a twostory, you know, 40 by 10, right? You can't have you can't have a twotory because the maximum height is still uh 16 ft. Okay. Well, you could have a
story and a half, right? Or am I wrong about that? It would still be one. It would be a one story with a small roof. It's not even a half a story at 16 ft. But you could have an 80 foot long with a peaked roof looking into a backyard.
just but it would have to comply with setbacks, right? I mean, it still wouldn't be able to get around any spacing that's already Well, that's what I'm asking. Like, I'm I'm wondering if somebody has a a normal footprint right now for a garage and they're going to
turn it into an ATDU, can they then do they have to still comply with all the setbacks? And they have to comply with the setbacks, but it's the setbacks for an accessory structure, which in most zones is 6 feet. Okay. It's not for a principal structure, but
if their garage is six feet away from the property line, then you could have one of these really long designs. But how does that But how does that function as a building? That's part of it, too. This was proposed by an
architect who on his own property and he's he designed a um ADU and he realized you know he's not in conformance with the whatever is it 20 by 30 but he's in conformance with the 800 square ft and it's just a little bit
maybe longer than it than the 30s 32 or something right I'm not anti that um but uh you know you read about spite buildings all the time right so um I just I think uh if we don't put any uh restriction on the conformity on the um
on the length, you might end up with some of that throughout the town. I just I think we need to be careful about just this blanket approval. I agree with you there. And I don't I don't know I don't know what the magic number is if it should be 40 or 50 feet instead of 30,
but it just seems to leave it open-ended. But it still has to be 800 square feet no matter all together. Still, right? But it it's 40. Huh? It's 20 feet. Like the death of Mar. I think we have an interesting pairing of the apartment that we just approved. That's
on what? A 12 foot wide lot. 15 foot wide lot. And so like that's that they were able to make Yeah. 15 by 75 which you know is somewhere in the ballpark of 800 probably a bit bigger. No. I don't know what. Um, and so you know, like if
we're comfortable with a 15t wide dwelling, m maybe the answer isn't, sorry, maybe the answer isn't to do a maximum of anyone length, but a minimum size, right? Where you can't be narrower, have anyone side that's less than 8 feet, for example, or something
like that because that protects against having an incredibly narrow structure. I I think isn't the concern, Michael? the basically you're establishing a very long wall adjacent to a a single family home. I I think that's what that's part
of it. Also, if you do have these windows up top, you're you know, now peering into people's backyards. It's just the comfort since it's a one-story structure. You can't get a roof pitch and you know with a window. I don't know. I just think it's you could see I'm just imagining some very weird buildings, you know, that could pop up
here if we're having no control other than it's got to be 800 ft. So Mike has some intense neighbors. By the way, no comment. No comment. 75 by 15 is 1125. Yeah. So that's, you know, large larger than 800. Yeah. To to
be clear, I think I think having no minimum is the or maximum is the right way to go. I think giving the flexibility to to come up with an ADU that fits the property is is the way to handle it. But, you know, I I I understand where the concern's coming from, but I think with various zoning
setbacks and all that, I think we're we're well protected from anything, particularly anything that's going to be of of concern. I think we need to put some limits on it. I really do. I do. Well, what's what's our role here? Is our role consistency with the master plan? But so we're we're being asked to
evaluate this as to whether or not it's consistent with the master plan and then we can offer any other comments that we would like. So how is this inconsistent with the master plan? I'm I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying our job is to evaluate this for consistency or
inconsistency with the master plan and then provide any other comments. But the master parable of speaking on it. I'm I'm listening on this because I've always, you know, the experience with historical um preservation,
you never know because if you wanted to do something, you could get a variance. It was really a problem. I was I don't know what the answer is in terms of the maximum number of square of of feet long or wide, but I do think that perhaps it
might be good to have something if it's in the setbacks of the existing lot. You're not doing anything that is otherwise not approvable. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't I mean you can build a threetory or you can build a two and a half story build structure within an ADU though a a
living a living well you can build expand your house. I mean whatever. If the question is building walls if we're doing something within the existing setbacks we're not granting any more um walls around property that could
otherwise be built by right. Well, I think one difference is a principal structure has a much larger setback requirement. Okay? So, a principal structure is 25% of the depth of the lot. So, 30 40 ft. This is an accessory
structure and the setbacks are only six feet. Okay. So, just bear that in mind. Right. You could have moved the principal structure to six feet within, right? It just wouldn't work. It just wouldn't really work. You could six and 10 but not to the rear. Okay. In
in theory though, would this create a different requirement for an ADU compared to say a garage? Could someone have a very long detached garage? Our the issue is in our accessory structure ordinance, we have a maximum length for an accessory structure because there was
an issue any accessory structure, not just ADUs. that came up where somebody put in a garage and it was very long and the neighbors objected because it was uh it impacted their their property. It was a very it was very long. So that's when
we came up with the maximum length of a side of an accessory structure which at that point was 24 feet for certain districts and 30 feet for other districts. So but it doesn't work remember it doesn't work for ADUs. Yeah. it was too
limiting. So that's why we we amended it and that's where we are today. How does this compare to other municipalities that have I I can't hear you. There aren't any many. There's only there's only Maplewood and Princeton, I think, and maybe West Orange or
something. There's like three other municipalities. So, we're like the test case, I think, for a limit on the size. They don't in those two. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, that's good. Or at least last time I checked, they didn't. Janice, how many how many ADUs? Yeah, we're not even getting that many at this
point. The ordinance has been around what? Two two three years. Three years, I think. Three years. I think we're up to about 20. Wow. We have 20 built ADUs. We have 20 built. No, they're not built. Yeah. Uh but they've received zoning
approval. They have Okay. So, this is in three or four years. We've got 20. So, well, one of the things not that many. Not everyone who wants an ADU wants to build one. There are existing buildings in which people would like to have an ADU in a pre-existing structure and
we've already I think have a very strict rule on those in terms of you know can't be more than 40% of the one part of the building the main unit which seems to me much more restrictive than what we've already got on the building a new
structure. So I think we should handle both of those at the same time. M this idea is never ending. Well, it's never being built because of the kinds of things we say about them and the restrictions we put. Maybe maybe we we
should go back if if the proposed increase to 30 feet is too still too limiting is how how does the board feel if it was 40 feet which would give a little bit more flexibility in design instead of the 30 ft. So 40 by say 15.
So you get 40 by 20 which 40 structure by 20. Yeah, that's 800. Yeah, that's a substantial structure actually. Yeah, it gives you more flexibility, but you don't get it's a more you're not creating a wall. Yeah. Right. Okay.
Yeah. Okay. I think that the way the ordinance was written, the length and width never got in. It says in any direction or something, right? So, do you want to make it length and width or because there was that confusion about what about the what about the diagonal? That's in the ordinance right now in any
direction. Yeah, I know. But length and width never made it in. So, do you want to put length and width into the We discussed putting length and width in, but it never made it into the ordinance. It just stayed as any direction. So, if you um if you were thinking about this in terms of length and width, then I'd
suggest put it in the terms length and width. Otherwise, you could say, well, is it on the diagonal? Is that the longest? Is it 40T? I thought we had length or I thought we put the in any direction because there was a concern that it might go down,
right? Yeah. Talk about the basement. The basement. Yeah, the basement was my area. Yeah. Okay. Take that. Yeah. I'd go with the 20 by 40 just for ease. It's a very simple. It's simple. Yeah. And I it shouldn't overwhelm a lot and
you know if if they don't like it they can go for a variance if they have some strange design. Right. Right. So I think that allows some leeway. I was say and I think you know the idea of this is also to take you know in an effort to create more affordable housing
existing structures and turn them into legal units. A standard garage detached is going to be 20 by 20. Right. So you've got that structure of 20 ft width regardless and they'll build onto it but it would
effectively you know mitigate the larger concern which I agree is like a valid concern and spite buildings I'm sure are real for the people who can afford them. That's exactly what we're seeing. People are expanding their existing garages to make them into usable usable ADUs and
that's so that's your 20 ft width regardless. Right. So I think that kind of fits within that framework. Yeah. Framework. Get it? Okay. So, can I make a motion? Should we need a motion? We'll need a motion. Yeah. So, I make a motion to amend the
ADU ordinance to have a um a length and a width of 20 by 40 or whatever max. Are we apologies? Let let her finish her motion and we'll that's not well our primary job is to
evaluate this and and determine whether it's consistent or inconsistent with the master plan and then we can provide any other recommendations we would like to go back to the council so is my mo and why don't you make the motion go
ahead so you know my view of this is that having ADUs is certainly consistent with our master plan and so I I feel like This amendment is consistent with the master plan. So I move and make a motion that we conclude that this change
is consistent with the master plan. However, this board has recommendations that rather than eliminate the 30 ft in any one direction, we would change that to 40 ft. I' I'd push for a little bigger, maybe like 45 or 50 just to give
it flexibility. I would want to I would I mean if we're doubling garages at this point, you know, I'm now I have a good reference point, I would be more comfortable sticking with that and if we have to amend later, I mean, look, this is a work in progress. As you know, councelor Lachman said, we're we're the test case right now. I I would I would
advise caution at this point. Um, and I would also ask if we say that this is consistent with the master plan, yet we think the 80 uh 800 square ft is eliminating the 30 whatever it was. If we think that's consistent uh with the
master plan, um wouldn't we think that's inconsistent if we're saying no uh to that um uh to those parameters? We're saying it's inconsistent. Our parameters would be consistent. You mean the the the no limitation is
inconsistent of the master with the master plan? No limitation. Thank you. Yes. Because because the master plan emphasizes neighborhood character. That's I will withdraw my motion. I'll let the vice chair make a motion. Okay. Uh this is like motion. Uh I think Miss
Tally said it best quite honestly. I don't think she can make she can't make the motion. So I'll do my best to repeat what uh Janice said. Uh but uh motion to find the amendment inconsistent with the master plan uh and
recommend um maintaining um neighborhood character neighborhood character by um adjusting
by not eliminating by not or affirming the pre-existing 30 foot. No, I think no. Oh, okay. That's um by affirming limitations
to the footprint and uh making said footprint 40 by 20 maximum. I have a concern and I'm just trying to articulate that concern. But it seems to me that
in our present description of ADUs, is it not in the master plan that if you have a two family home or and you wanted to make an ADU that the ADU could not be
bigger than 40% of the larger unit. So therefore, you this resolution would seem to be in conflict with that section of the master plan because a person who has a house and wants to put an ADU in
that house is not allowed to get his 800 square ft because the main unit of the house is not going to permit that to happen. only the person with who builds a garage
or does something outside would be permitted. And in fact, you get more success in supporting ADUs if you allowed the some flexibility on people who have a already house
where we're saying they can't have an ADU because all the house all the other portions of the house are will not allow them to have it. So, can I make a com? That's a very good point. And number one, this is not coming from
the council. So, it's not a referral. This is really This is Oh, this isn't a referral from the council. It's not a Did I saw it? Show it as a referral on the Oh, I just I just wrote proposed amendment zoning. I thought this was coming from the council. So, it's really I think So,
this is informal. It's informal. Yes. Oh, yeah. So, Carol, you rais a very good point and I think it's something that the planning board should consider because for a single family house, it's the size of the ADU is relative to the size of the house, right? Why don't we
most of our two family houses are similar in size to a single family house. So, your suggestion is to eliminate the current provision that limits the size of the ADU to the size of the larger struct. Why not just relate it to the entire
size of the two family house, right? Thank you very much. So, I understand where that's coming from and I don't know how the rest of the planning board feels about basically um uh regulating ADUs on a lot with a two family structure in a similar way as
you regulate it for a single family structure. So uh just just to clarify, so you would take both um units of the two family structure of the two family home and base the ADU and could you have two ADUs
at that point? Just one just related to the size of the whole structure and not to the size of the larger apartment which yeah you have appointments to the 800 40% is it to 40% of the entire area of the two family house. So
if you have two apartments at 2,000 ft it would be 4,000 ft times 40. So it would be 80 40 to 32. Right now it's 40% of the larger apartment. That's right. There's the problem. That's the problem. doesn't make much sense. It never did make that neighborhood character. Let's
get in there. Is that in case of two owners? That's already there. You don't have to build anything. You don't have to to worry about that. I'm guessing we missed. It's all there. Are you sure that's in there? Yeah. Well, that's what I the way I read it and I think I
confirmed it with Janice that is correct. I don't remember when we worked on this that Well, I look at the regulation. Okay. probably didn't talk about it in that. This is one thing we probably didn't talk about. So, so do we want to make that recommendation as well? So, do we need a motion? I mean,
you you've got several thoughts and recommendations. We can do is um the planning board can set can can recommend the change to the council. My suggestion is why don't we take Carol's suggestion,
rework this at the next meeting. I'll I'll keep it on the agenda and maybe then the planning board can recommend an you know an ordinance with both issues to the council. Okay. And by it coming from the planning board to the council, it doesn't have to get referred back to the planning board once when it's
introduced. So Okay. Okay. Makes sense to me. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to come up with these motions at 10:30. So I agree. I agree with that. Okay. Do we have any committee reports?
Um, I think we need another person Philippy on the on the revisions committee. I don't know if this is the time to bring it up, but we have a vacancy on the revisions committee. So, if there's
anybody who's wants to be on a committee, it does not it meet uh at all regularly. Only we only meet when we have to. Usually we do the the business through emails or Zoom meetings. What does the committee do? If somebody comes in with a revision to an
approved site plan that doesn't trigger an amendment, the revisions committee looks at those revisions um and says yes or no or how they should be handled. Who's on the committee now? Uh Mike Graham and Jake Neman.
So I'll do it. Jeff, was that you? That was me. Okay. Welcome aboard. I've been consulted once and I'm I'm shooting to try to get our second alternate position filled
if we can. Okay. Next up is bills. Yeah. Is there a motion to pay the bills? Motion to pay the bills. All in fa uh opposed or second? in favor. Is there a second?
I think Miss Willis second skip there. Okay. All right. All in favor? Any opposed? Abstensions. Okay. Move to adjourn. Motion. Oh, second. Second.
All in favor? Opposed? Abstensions. Have a good night, everyone. All right.