##VIDEO ID:tOmO7SpboVI## e everyone I'll give everyone a second to settle all right this is a regular meeting of the Zoning Board of adjustment for Wednesday February 5th 20125 notice has been given in accordance with the open public meetings act by posting a copy of the notice on the first floor of the municipal building and sending a copy to the Montclair times Star Ledger and Herald news this is a public Hearing in which any members of the public are welcome to attend the meeting agenda is available on the Montclair website as as a link to the Township's YouTube channel where the hearing can be viewed live or after the fact the hearing is also being televised on Channel 34 and I will call the role uh chair Harrison here Vice chair Mulla is not present but will be joining us Mr Coffield here Mr church here Miss Harris is not present Mr Moore is not present Mr Simon is not present Mr Vier here uh Miss Grant is not present Mr Griffith here Mr Cruz here and Mr nce did I pronounce that correctly n yeah okay okay we have the minutes of the January 15th meeting I just have one change on page 5 uh line 152 my name is misspelled I noticed that after printing oh I also have one change I forgot to include the election of officers so I'll include the S section for that okay um okay anyone else with any changes to those minutes if not someone want to move the minutes with those changes I'll move the minutes Mr chair with the changes second all in favor say I I any opposed any extensions okay and we have the resolution for the property at 6-10 Eerie Street um I don't have any changes the resolution does anyone else have any changes if not someone want to move the resolution I'll move the resolution Mr chairman second all in favor say I I I I any opposed any extensions abstain okay um first applications out of Jeff carry for property at 140 Gordon Hurst Avenue this is an application for variances to replace the existing non-conforming detached garage property is located in the R11 family Zone district and is designated on the Township tax maps as lot four block 2556 variant is requested from Monclair code section 34746 a28 permit a side yard setback of 3 ft for accessory structures where 6 fet is the required minimum of variance is also requested from mon cler code section 37-46 A3 to permit a rear yard setback of 3 feet for accessory structures where 6 feet is required are taxes paid and is a notice in order yes okay okay Mr Carrie one okay we have to swear you both in gentlemen do you Solly swear the testimony about it will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth would you please State separately your full names for the record Jeffrey Cary John ryit and Mr ryit I believe you're an architect that's correct could you provide your place of business for the record it's 105 Grove Street Montclair New Jersey thank you um good evening um my wife Liz and I have lived in Montclair for 28 years uh we purchased the uh the subject uh 1916 era house in mid July of this year as we were transitioning from full-time careers to some part-time Consulting and eventual retirement like many biders in the competitive Montclair Market we purchased a few components of the house as is including the detached garage unfortunately the 1930s Eric garage was more more as is than we first realized uh after we moved in we assembled some shelving and made as efficient uh storage use of the garage is possible giving uh the existing conditions this past fall we began to work with John as our architect to consider our options to repair uh or replace the garage as well as address some other house issues uh constrained by a relatively tight and narrow driveway access and a small backyard we're seeking the board's approval of side and rear yard variances to be able to demolish the existing garage uh and build a replacement as John will detail the proposed replacement garage will be a little over 5 ft uh wider than the existing structure and a little under 7 ft taller with an upper Storage level we plan to use the additional room for a ping area workbench bench parking for our mini and better organized more Ample Storage we proposed to marginally increase our side and rear setbacks to five to pardon me to 3 feet each and limit the overall height to 15 fet we've worked with John on proposed design features for the garage including an eyebrow overhang in the front to complement some of the historic features of our house in addition to soften the enlarged garage we plan to work uh with our NE one of our neighbors to plant additional tall conifers Norway spruce on the rear property line and have discussed replacing the existing 6- foot wooden fence along the southern border of our backyard with our neighbors I'll I'll now turn it over to John to run through the details of our just for the record Mr Moore has arrived at uh arrived in the beginning stages of the presentation of the application and you can take off your code unless you got to R out in a minute you want me to hand that out me what she has to say we want to submit some more photographs we have something for everyone did we just distribute it distrib I can I'll do one there you go there you go uh we have some more photographs that describe the existing conditions that we distributed we Mark those A1 a 1 A2 um I'll go ahead just make a quick statement and then I'm going to go to the slide projector and just run you through some things uh the work basically is to it it's it's on you can't am I not sitting close enough okay uh the application is basically to uh to remove the existing accessory structure on the site that is deteriorated to a point where it cannot be simply fixed in its existing condition condition it does not function as a garage and is little more than a shed um because it's so small um and in addition it has no Foundation uh which the whole thing is is uh compromised to some degree um with that I'll just okay so I got it um so essentially the existing shed sits down in the corner of uh the rear yard on this site uh the driveway is very tight coming in here coming down the side and it makes this really tight turn at this point to try to get into the garage door um it's difficult at best uh presently um the uh existing uh side Lot line is 2.1 feet and the rear uh lot line is uh to the accessory structure is 2.8 ft um I'm going to first maybe run through some of the slides um which um so here's the existing house uh when we first started looking at this house we asked the uh the consultant to the HPC what he thought about this house and the only reason I bring it up is because we're going to take some of the features of it and apply it to the garage and uh he said it's overall a vernacular colonial revival style house with shingle and maybe even Craftsman arts and crafts influences cemetry Dormer and side gable roof are all Colonial while the curved rake overhangs and staggered alternating shingle courses are influences from the shingle style and he went on to say interesting composition so uh but some of those features are ones that we are applying to the garage with the intent to tie the garage at least from the view from the street to the house and in fact we're doing a version of uh the overhang uh over the garage doors uh that exist over the entry door with the brackets um this is this is obviously the existing garage it's listing a little bit to one side um and again and this is an 8ft door the overall depth of the existing garage is 18 fo4 in these days when we do garages we're on the order of 22 feet okay so you can imagine 18 feet may have been made for the model T's that were parked in there I I don't know but it doesn't really work for uh to in today's world for and on top of it when you get in there it's not wide enough to open the doors out and and get around the overall the overall width is 12 feet including the including the walls um on the second second page of photographs uh just a little bit more about uh this garage sits directly next to a garage on its neighbor to the right which is this um uh structure here uh I took a photograph between these two garages and what you see in the distance is a garage on the adjoint property in the back um if you walk down the alley between these two garages this is what you see in terms of the there's the backyard of a house on Fullerton and the house on the next you know I don't know what the next street is there uh took some photographs of the sill condition around the garage it's all rotting it's rotting inside the slab inside is all cracked and you can imagine it's it's uh u u settled so uh so that just gives you a little bit more information about what's going on there on the third page of of the photographs there's some photographs looking from the house to the rear yard where uh my client has already planted uh a screen of trees here and in fact you see how this house overlooks uh his property here's a view tilted slightly to the right where you pick up the garage and um here we're proposing to make this not quite 7 feet taller this view on the right is standing uh in the the neighbor's backyard and looking down the the uh fence in the backyard towards the garage you can sort of see it behind the trees over here uh this is standing on the other end of the backyard of the neighbor looking towards the house and you see the garage here again and then there's some more photographs here in here the back of the garage and in fact this garage had been structured in such a way that it dumped all the water off the back so you can see the damage that's been done along the face uh Mr McCulla arrived at 7:52 p.m. okay um so uh that's sort of the existing conditions um uh it may not show up in one of these photographs let me just see here yeah okay so just another little feature here is just to point out the alternating coursing of the shingles and this sort of uh interesting cornice here made up of flat facia board a drip edge and 2x4s that stick out the the side um so those are the existing conditions so um go back to here so the existing garage is this smaller rectangle in this drawing where proposing to expand the garage 5T to the right or to the East and we're proposing to take the 2.1 setback and make it a three foot setback on the side and take the 2.8 foot set back in the rear and also make it three we're really constrained by we're not able to move this over to be 6 feet if you look at how you would come you could not make this turn to get into the garage um even giving up this foot on this side is a little tight but we're we're suggesting we'll move it so it's a minimum of 3 feet um part of making it wider and we we didn't want to go any wider than this either because we start eating up the backyard so this is really uh we're trying to put in a 9-ft door in this facade to help the car get into the garage a little bit easier um and create a little storage room on uh the garage uh on the concrete floor level uh the the client is proposing like a little potting shed inside and some gardening stuff and shelving uh which then will he can access the backyard from that that location um so this is this drawing is just a comparison of what is existing and what's proposed uh the dotted line in this uh proposed is is the existing uh this is the existing roof uh it's a posed a proposed roof with a that little eyebrow roof over the uh garage door that I suggested matches the eyebrow roof over the entry to the house um we decided to make this a flat roof okay uh without as opposed to a uh for couple different reasons one it was to get as much space above where the car is for additional storage this is not a two-car garage and what we're trying to do here is squeeze as much stuff into this garage as possible we did a flat roof to create as much space as we could up there and it's hard to do an eve roof because any overhang we're so tight here already any overhang impinges on that three foot or or whatever Dimension so um the idea here was to take the features some of the features of the house the alternating th this is the approach to to the garage it's going to be a 9- foot door we have this eyebrow roof and the alternating coursing of the shingles and we're proposing to re create that uh cornice that exists now on the garage uh up here um this is the side elevation that faces the Carry's backyard and these two elevations face the side and rear yard uh lot lines um I think that's the the what we were trying to do was comp trying to soften the height of this uh structure by doing this eyebrow roof uh another thing that uh uh the owner is proposing is to continue these 15 foot um uh Evergreen he calls him conifers okay okay Norway spruce and to bring them all the way down and uh additionally soften the the uh the view from this backyard of this garage and also proposing to run it down the alley between the two garages um I think that's my testimony any members of the board with questions Mr Church yeah uh I see you want to make this a flat roof garage and I I wonder about how you're going to drain off of that these plans are showing draining fourways okay so the actual structure around the perimeter will be a little bit short drain it four ways to a drip edge down to a bed of gravel that runs around this garage so it's not going to be uh channeled the water off the roof isn't going to be channeled it's just going to come off it's drip off the edge um there's no there's no crawl space there's no Li basement space it's just and I wonder also about the um uh the effect this would have uh runoff would have on your neighbor's yard well right now I drew the existing roof as draining fourways but really all the existing one drains all the way to the back so right now more water is is draining towards the rear yard that will be in the future we're going to drain towards the front the rear yard of the applicants what's that the rear yard of the applicant's property it drains to the back of his property doesn't go on the neighbor's property not that we're aware of no we we don't currently have a drainage issue um we haven't seen HD and and in your professional opinion this this change won't cause any drainage problems for the Neighbors no with with a a bed of gravel so there's a way for it to percolate down into the ground uh from the the edge of the roof is a better situation than it has that exists now okay thank you any other board members with questions Mr corfield is there going to be Lighting on this garage on the garage uh we don't show any but I can imagine that um ultimately we'll put a a scon next to this door on either side of the garage door facing the street okay I recommend not putting the the bushes down that Alleyway just to keep that open between you and your neighbor yeah that that makes sense to us I think our original plan was to work with the actually our we're fortunate that our adjacent neighbor um is in the landscaping and arbory busy so he's already helped us put some tall trees in around our porch and we anti working with them to put additional trees in the back on to rear property correct okay thank you Mr Vieira thank you Mr chairman um good evening I have a quick question so you mentioned that the the driveway is very narrow correct it is it reduces almost to 7 it does reduce exactly to 7 and2 ft a little Bay that projects off the side of the house this right so right here yeah that's the bump out's this is 7 and 1/2 ft at this point so and here you may have 17 ft as you turn this corner to try to get into this garage it's just not he has a little mini that he's been using to park in there but in fact um you could never Park this that's his manyi you could never Park that car in the garage so okay and the the proposed uh garage will move um away from the property line so it will not create a a pinch point or you know you will have difficulties maneuvering um the car into the the idea is that that that we're increasing the width of the the actual garage door Itself by 1 foot which will give us a better access but the additional 5 ft will be mostly the potting shed area into our into into our backyard area and not only that that 5 feet takes care of some of the Swinging Doors when you open the garage doors it's you just can't right now in the in the existing structure right thank you Mr Cruz um I just had one question with the uh shallowness of the roof um do you think you'll experience like an over accumulation of leaves or snow an over accumulation of leaves or snow or we we haven't had we have leaves that that come from the I'm sorry I meant uh leaves oh no I heard I was I heard you but uh we haven't had an issue with leaves I guess they blow off there also not any trees right over the current garage so we haven't had any yeah I I would to think that that's a problem you know generally that collects in valleys of roofs and and so where it can collect and drift over an edge of something but the wind just was going to blow across that roof so I don't I don't see it accumulating maybe it'll stick in rain actually break the leaves and and haven't seen that there's been an issue on thank you Mr Moore so my colleagues somewhat touched on uh drainage around the area you know it looks both garages are very close to each other so um have you considered having a leader um to the garage so that there's some type of controlled run run off um or you know have you considered a leader coming off the garage or some type of runoff where it won't put back from a gutter and a leader and dumping it all in one area or connecting it to a dry well which is another possibility I guess but we were trying to create this cornis condition around the top of the garage that reflected what was there before and a gutter just doesn't do that but you know I I think about all of our drainage issues that we're having nowadays um that we didn't have before um and so I could just kind of see it pulling but uh I'm sure it's not a big structure so okay you've thought about that I think the bed of gravel M you know one foot deep twoot wide it becomes a dry well in of itself for just the dripping off the side of the Dr that's the intent okay the other thing that I wanted to mention that we're examining with John's he is using semi permeable Turf blocks or uh Paving blocks in front of the garage between the garage and the um the foundation line of the rear of the house okay um we're we're looking at this area right here which is existing asphalt and trying to make it feel more Incorporated with the backyard so we're looking at making getting the fence to run around this way and make this a permeable kind of surface that can be driven over but also doesn't feel like asphalt also responds to your question about drainage in the future climate change things like that okay and with the sidey yard you mentioned that you were considering putting Evergreens or you I don't know if that area will you know it may encroach over the property line well yeah and obviously uh we'll work with our neighbor to put those in he lives on that property line um and will'll help us with the trees um and what we're really talking about is push the butt is is using the trees here along the rear line the rear as as your colleague asked about not having okay so it would be on the inside of the fence in the rear on the inside of the fence okay uh and we've also discussed with our neighbors to the rear replacing the the wood fence along this line which extends all the way here to the house on North Fullerton is an old 6ot fence old wooden 6ot fence and we talked about replacing that working with our neighbor replace that new thank you Mr Griffith do you have any questions uh yes um so you show 15 ft as a dimension on the side of the house 15 ft is the maximum height for for accessory structure you say the roof is sloped you need to lower the 15 ft in order to accommodate for the slope um well it'll be 15 ft to the peak of the slope which is the dimension I I can only look at what's on the drawings I can only look what is on the drawings the drawings show a dimension line to the side wall of a house and so that's not the peak of the roof so I believe you want to correct that okay the intent is the overall height to the peak of the roof will not exceed 15t I understand okay um I'm going to ask this question I think it's been asked before but I want to be really clear about this so I understand this correctly the water on your lot the water that comes down sheds to the front to the street um there's there's a differential in the back uh from our experience understood yes the homeowner I'll just speak understand our experience is that uh there is well first we have a problem that we're going to address once the construction is done on the garage which is they repaved the the asphalt driveway has been repaved too many times so it's it's not Crown it's not sloping properly and it's it's too hot so uh we have a w you know a door here that was a little warp because the drivewood just grown to be too high there's too many lers of as uh we're proposing to grind this down the current grade appears to be um there's this it drains from about this point down the driveway uh and then from about here back into so the high the high point is approximately where the house is yes okay understood so the front sheds to the street and the back sheds back back here something yeah and again we haven't seen any Cooling even with some of the heavier R understood um uh did you consider doing a renovation of the existing garage at renovation Edition and I assume you obviously you chose not to do it could you explain why U uh the uh before we hired John we because we lived in the community we had some of our friends who were General Contractors come over and a I'm sorry and ask them to evaluate what our options might be from their perspective um what ensued with at least two of their explanations was uh trying to preserve some of the walls jacking it up because there's no Foundation they'd have to uh be able to raise the structure support it somehow try to dig a foundation around the bottom uh repair the walls which which are in incredibly deteriorated replaced the concrete pad and one of them joked with us so you'll spend close to twice as much money to renovate what's there and you'll still have a substandard garage it still won't fit your car it still won't store a lot of stuff um so that's when we uh took this route to to look at it and then to by by making this whole effort we want to better be able to to enjoy it with some area to PO pot plants and have our landscaping equipment we mow our own lawn have our lawn mower um and preferably store uh the the car which uh particularly during the winter yeah I I am I understand and appreciate your points the um and the addition as I look at it seems to make sense I'm still somewhat baffled by the height and so inside the garage you'll have approximately 14t clear ceiling height in there no the go ahead no the intent is to put a platform in there above the cars just just create more storage so a mezzanine for storage mezzanine we may fill in the whole level there it will not be tall enough for habitable space uh it will have either a drop down ladder or just a convenience way to get up to that level would it be the full floor or just partial or and what would be the dimension of the me space the whole floor at the the whole level at the moment above the cars so there'd be a crawl space what I'll call a crawl space attic yeah I would you know yeah is the intent yeah we in the in the past when we did this in a prior house in CLA we used the attic pull down stairs uh I was 20 years younger then and I could get stuff up an attic pull down stair I think we're looking at trying to put some some more structured stair up there that's still a convenience stair not a um not not using it for occupancy it's not a code ER stair it's just a convenience stair which is safer than the fold down yeah we a little worried about using the the traditional attic pull downstair for that level but it's to to uh uh for storage use yeah I I find it curious I i' I've just never seen such a thing in a in a garage like this and the scale of that addition at 15 ft in the backyard is going to Tower over your neighbor's garage right you know that that's why you put the big dber over the garage door correct um I can't speak to the height of the garage of the the uh house at uh 364 North Fullerton it appears to be 15 ft from my street view but I I haven't measured it so I you you say it Towers over their garage I can't say that for as I can't make that observation just I don't I say that just because you you Dimension the height of your existing garage and I think it's 8' 3 in high and then you show a photograph of your garage in the adjacent garage and they're about the same height so I'm thinking that your new garage would I'm sorry I'm misunderstood I thought you meant the house behind us not the house next yes I I yes I I agree with your statement Michael's garage next to us yes that's correct thank you Mr mccullock do you have any questions yes and I apologize for not being here to hear your full presentation so if I'm asking a question that you've addressed uh please feel free just a couple of questions for you um the the pavers that separate the the the two driveways to whom does that belong that predates us um um perhaps um our neighbor who's in the audience can answer that question uh I I would I guess I'm guessing that they were put in at one of the research surfacing by a prior owner of the of our driveway okay given that they sort of look similar to the Pavers that align the side of the house your house I guess I'm wondering if those pavers belong to your property as opposed to your neighbor's property may I ask my neighbor who's here if she comes in be and just you want to talk to her and you'll tell you the answer yeah the reason why I asked that question is is because um you made reference to the fact that the garage itself can really only accommodate a a mini um but um I would presume that a a car the size of the one that's in your neighbor yard could also fit in this driveway I guess oh I'm sorry he changed the DI the the there's a choke point in the driveway where the um staircase of the of our house extends into the driveway yes that's the very narrow part right I'm very reluctant to drive a larger car a larger car beyond that point and and so that's the part of the reason why I asked the question is because if the I mean if the pavers weren't there then it and and there was an agreement between the two neighbors then it would allow more proximity but that's a different that's just a question that you know just looking at what you're what you presented to us um as part of this this uh overall plan the the the next question I have is relative to when I look at the uh uh picture uh on page three with a lot of the materials that are in the neighbors's driveway and then some that are in your driveway way what's what's the intent around all of that can you speak to that I can I can speak to the the picture that shows the wood in our uh driveway which is no longer there it's actually in the talking about no there's another picture yes that that picture in the upper left upper left cor would speak to that yes two photos the the the the wood of on um that was on our driveway was related to emergency repairs on our front step where we had a problem this winter with our front steps that the remainder of that is is now jammed into our existing garage um I can't speak to I would I'm reluctant to speak to to in as far as your neighbors okay my neighbor use all right um and then I guess the last question I have is is um you had initially made the recommendation of putting some planting between the two garages uh and based on the comments from this board perhaps um you'll move in a different direction but I guess the question I have is sort of looking at at uh again pictures the picture on page five which shows the um garbage cans uh and I see two different colors of garbage cans so I'm assuming that that represents garbage can cans that belong to your property and garbage cans that may belong to your neighbor's property split yes these yes and then so I I'm wondering if you have considered the possibility of putting a structure not a big structure but a structure in between the two garages that you and your neighbor could share in order to idea enclose the garbage can so that those would not be exposed to the street um we certainly can consider that and and uh would would work cooperatively with our neighbors we've had in as we've done in the past okay it's it's a good that's a good idea from the street I want to follow up on the storm water and and partially on the landcaping so you indicated that you were going to put gravel a foot deep and 2 feet wide is that correct that's correct okay and I think my concern was with with the runoff coming from a higher height that I would have an impact but I think that's deep enough for the gravel that it's not going to cause a problem but then my concern on the rear property is how are you going to plant the trees when you're going to have the gravel there you know covering 2third of the area well the the gravel is permeable number one well I understand that that's why you're doing I I will defer to the arborist who's going to come up here and suggest how they can survive along their work for us no our neighbor's here but I'm not I don't want to put our neighbor on the spot okay okay uh conceptually we're we're thinking that it's permeable enough that the the the trees will get water it's I'm not concerned about they're getting water it's the I'm more concerned if the root layer is going to be in that foot of gravel of it with it drying out when it's not raining and you're not going to be able to easily water back there is um you know and or is it going to be feasible to plant it deep enough so the roots will be in the dirt versus in the gravel I can't answer that question at this point in time all I can say is we worked um uh earlier this fall with with our neighbor to plant some uh column colum or uh deciduous trees around our porch and we created a cup around it uh to uh to hold water I manually went out and watered them particularly because of the drought by hand each day and and we were able to get them well established so we would be prepared to do the same thing for these okay uh any other questions from members of the board are there any members of the audience who either have questions about the application statements about the application comments anything you want to say about the application this is your time Mr mck and if you're going to give testimony we have to swear you in good yes Arthur thank you sir you soundly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to get will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I I do would you please State your full name and address uh Richard mck 141 gordonhurst Avenue good proed first of all I want to thank everyone I um I I haven't been here for quite some time and and and I thank you for all the hard work that you do um I'm right across the street I am not the garage that's next door um and and I welcome my new neighbors and I and I thank them for replacing this garage because I've been looking at it for 28 years and and and I think any any um um any improvements and they've done quite a few improvements with the landscaping and I thank them uh it's a beautiful house and I um agree with the with the project and and I'm I'm hoping that the board agrees with the project also because I'm I'm really happy that um we're here tonight in which to talk about it um any questions to me Bill no have a great day you too okay one more question yeah oh what do I have to do sir do you somly swear the testimony you're about to give the the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do would you please State your full name and address to the record Michael D burn 142 Gordon Hurst Avenue speak at Liberty um I uh I've been there 45 years and um um support the application whatever uh Jeff and Liz want to do is fine um there are no drainage issues there uh I've worked in the yard for four uh owners of the property so drainage is not an issue the um gravel will not be an issue we'll work that out and uh uh anything that needs to be done will be worked out um easily I think any questions okay thank you this is old friends coming to the board tonight is that what we're also apologize to Mr Coffield for not planting those private hedges in his yard five years ago you Solly swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do would you please take your full name and address for that uh yes Becky coach 138 Gordon Hurst Avenue I'm um the property to the um east of um Jeff and lizz's house so I'm on the corner um and we share um a fence that we replaced um a few years ago but we will certainly be happy to work with you to replace the older fence along the back line um since Jeff and Liz moved in they've done a fantastic job of upgrading um some of their Landscaping we share privit and so and and my Laurels go into their yard and so they've been very cooperative and communicative around you know maintaining the property um I think that the proposed um eyebrow is that what you call it um looks beautiful and that will be a really nice Improvement um I also see the garage a lot because I'm right in the neighborhood and um it is currently very unattractive and so anything that they do to upgrade um the um you know the front with with a wider door will look more attractive um and I'm I'm just supportive of the application thank you any other members of the audience with questions statements any comments on the application Mr Griffith I wanted to ask about the um the fence is that your fence in the backyard yes okay and looking at the survey it's 2.2 ft from the existing garage to the face of the fence and am I understanding it correctly that you propos to put plants between the existing structure in the fence uh increasing the set back 3et yes we do increasing it from two it 2.8 2.8 to three hold on let me look I'm sorry I see you have three fet so so you're going to put plants between the 3 ft between the fence and the house and the structure yeah that's um okay thank you okay anything further either of you want to add before we discuss and vote on the application okay we'll start with Mr Church uh the application uh it the garage leaves you the property leaves you little room to do much with that garage only thing I would concerned with I would be concerned with is the drainage uh we've I've we've sat here and seen this happen with other applications where drainage became a issue because of the the amount of rain we're getting now and so forth um I would be in favor of the application but I'd like to see a modification to the drainage problem rather than just have it come off the roof into a gravel I would like to see some sort of a uh system whereby it would go into the ground uh and rather than just spill into a gravel uh thing I think that would cause problems in the future because gravel shifts we have an excavator there anyway excuse me we're going to have an excavator digging holes there any way we canate I think that would be a good a storage system underground for can age that other than that I would be in favor of the application Mr corfield um I'm I'm okay with the gravel idea for your runoff at this at this stage um I think you're going to have to sell your Mini Cooper for this house when you leave because once you build this because you can't get to the backyard Al you know in that sense um thank you for keeping it 3T clear of the property line that that would that's that's a very good thing that we all talk about here and I'm in favor good luck Mr Vieira thank you Mr chairman I'm also in favor of this application I think I do share um the concern on the drainage especially with uh what we have seen in the I guess in the 10 years recent the intensity of the um storm so I think perhaps looking a little deeper into managing the the storm water will be a good idea thank you Mr Cruz um I'm also in support of the application um I do think that the quantity of gravel you're putting would be adequate to store uh the rain for what you're proposing I'm not sure what Gordon Hurst soils are like but since your neighbor's testimony suggests you haven't seen any flooding or drainage issues before um I think the gravel should be sufficient as long as the borders getting from the garage to to the gravel Mr Moore I'm in favor of the application I don't see it as a detriment uh to the area um certainly will enhance uh the existing garage and the house um to my colleague's point I also think I think that there should be some type of a you know more sophisticated drainage whether there be a leader um so thank you for agreeing to that with a three foot setback and climate change and all that um you don't want to you know on a icy day well on a very cold day after it's rained someone someone may slip since you have your trash cans over there so just being mindful of that and and of course you know we think about we think about us living in our own home but you know one day someone else may live in it right so um just making sure that uh we take that into consideration with the drainage um okay uh I do think that if this will be 15 feet and your neighbor's garage is seven uh 8 feet tall assuming that that they're at the same height as they are now there a little bit of of a not so much similarity as I'd like to see but um it will it'll certainly enhance and I think it's a great addition Mr Griffith um I find the scale of it a little unsettling relative to your neighbors and within the traditional garage and backyard um and I'm curious as to what goes on inside with the attic or the the mezanine that you talk about but I see no reason not to approve this with regard to what it is we have a jurisdiction over we're the same age I just got these they're still working I understand I have I have no comment other than what I've already uh inquired about and and I think it's sounds like a good project I think it's important to make sure that whatever you do as we've heard from the neighbors is sightly um because it will enhance the uh the neighborhood um I'm also in favor of the application I think the given the location of the existing garage and more importantly the driveway and the choke point going past the house they can't move the garage over to be fully conforming to the side and move it forward to be fully conforming to the rear and have a car be able to even a small car be able to access the um garage so you know I think they've Justified are granting the variance for the side and rear yard meeting our typical 3 feet in this type of situations I um I certainly don't think this will be a detriment to the public good or substantial impairment to the Zone plan this will be much more attractive than the current garage I you know the ordinance allows 15 feet structures and I'll leave it there I think the conditions I think any lighting that's installed should conform to the ordinance um that the garage not exceed the 15 ft in height is measured to the top of the roof um that gravel at least one feet deep and two feet wide be placed at least along the Westerly side yard and the southernly rear yard um I am not I my instinct is the same as Mr Cruz is anything beyond that's not necessary that doing um gutters and leaders you have the problem with and that's encroaching further into the sidey yard and or rear yard depending how you do it and I think the gravel is sufficient to contain the storm water during a storm event um coming off in four directions of from the roof um that you know there' be no trees installed along the west side of the garage um and that you consult a landscaper uh about placing the trees to the rear with the understanding that if you're doing any vegetation back there the gravel one foot deep two fet wide takes precedence over anything you're doing with Landscaping that that has to be there um so don't say well we need dirt around the tree so this 4ot square area is not going to have the gravel is not going to be a valid excuse um okay any other comments from members of the board if not someone want to make a motion to approve it um I thought the suggestion of putting a gate between the two garages to obstruct the view of the trash cans between the garages was a really good idea though not something that we could require I don't think I would get messy with a variety of issues that okay it's a good idea I think talk and talk to your neighbor and okay we did it okay um sure okay so I make a motion to approve it with those conditions I make a motion to approve um with the uh statements um from the chair is there a second second all in favor say I I I was wondering when we got the application as to which of the neighbors would come since you have very some famous neighbors and you I'm glad they came all the neighbors are equal in our minds and and I I did Mr chairman I did want to thank our and recognize and thank Ras of neighbors uh and the one across the street for attending this hearing we very much appreciate it I make sure thank you the next application is that of the Pavel Group LLC for property located 627-6258 Valley Road this is an application for preliminary and final site plan approval to convert the existing ground floor commercial space to a restaurant and conduct a two-story addition to create a total of six dwelling units um the property is located in the NC neighborhood commercial zone is designated on the M Monclair tax map says block 2,62 lot 3 the applicant is also requesting variances from mon from to allow six dwelling units on the property whereas the mon code section 34791 provides for a maximum density of two dwelling units a variance for moner code section P 47-11 to permit zero onsite parking whereas the ordinance requires greater number of parking spaces a variance from Anor code section 347-9561 to permit a rear yard setback of 9.3 ft whereas the ordinance requires a minimum rear yard setback of 20 ft and a variance from Monclair code section 347-9405 okay are the taxes paid and is the notice in order yes okay Mr tulac want I give your appearance and Pur sure uh good evening everyone Alan tulac appearing on behalf of the applic at the Pavel Group LLC um the chair has already indicated um from reading the legal notice this application is for site plan approval in several variances relating to the property located at 627 Valley Road um this property uh was occupied for many many years uh by the Saunders hardware store a fixture in the Upper Montclair business District um the hardware store closed uh I believe in 2024 and the property was subsequently purchased by the applicant the uh Pavel Group LLC which is a company uh owned by Michael Pavel who owns a number of properties in the Upper Montclair uh business district including several other buildings uh on this block of Valley Road uh as well as the uh building around the corner at 237 Lorraine Avenue which is the Keller Williams building um contains Keller Williams obviously uh and other uh office and re and some smaller retail uh uses um Mr Pavel is proposing to make some very dramatic significant uh uh changes to this building uh respecting its historic uh uh character um this building was built in 1912 it's um located in the Upper Montclair uh uh business district historic district under the monair historic preservation ordinance it's uh uh a contributing uh building in the district it's currently a one-story building and what uh what we're proposing is to convert the first floor the hard formerly the hardware store uh to a restaurant which would contain uh 45 seats um and to construct a two-story addition to the building um which would contain a total of six Apartments three uh six two bedroom apartments three on each floor including one apartment which would be uh designated uh as a u deed restricted affordable housing unit which if approved I believe would be the first affordable housing unit in the upper mon in Upper Monclair and the first affordable housing unit in the First Ward of this town uh which I think is significant we actually previously approved one other but it didn't get built as of yet but hopefully this one will get built good to know um it's good to know or on a on a roll there and the First Ward which uh is important for the town um you know and this is a relatively small lot it's only about 4,300 square feet uh the the site is 100% impervious currently we're not changing that obviously it's going to remain 100% impious that is one of the uh variances uh that we're seeking but again it's that's a pre-existing condition um there's a very small area behind the building which will be U significantly improved uh as you'll see from the testimony um there's there is no parking available on this property there never has been to my knowledge there zero parking spaces uh currently and we're not able to add any parking spaces you know we do have an obligation under the zoning ordinance because we're adding additional uh um space and two additional floors that we've got to provide parking for the additional um space that we're creating namely the six uh Apartments um you know based upon our understanding of the parking requirements that translates to an obligation to provide We Believe 10 parking spaces we can't provide them on site uh but we can provide them otherwise specifically what we're proposing as I said Mr Pavel owns a number of properties um in the Upper Montclair business district and as a result he has I believe at least 40 parking permits for the uh daytime parking permits for for the parking lots in Upper Montclair in the in the business district um he has I believe 10 he has I know at least 10 permits that are not being utilized and that are available and that would be dedicated um to this building and and and the residential tenants living in these six Apartments would um would H would have those uh parking permits uh available for their use and those permits are good from 7:00 a.m. to 700 p.m. um in addition as I indicated earlier Mr Pavel owns the property at 237 Lorraine Avenue where Keller Williams is located that which is literally around the corner um that property has 60 parking spaces and you know we're proposing to uh per an arrangement which would allow the residential tenants in this building to park in that lot um uh at night after 7:00 uh and on weekends um so that would between the parking permits and the ability to utilize the Keller Williams parking lot that would basically provide 24 hours parking seven days a week for the tenants living in this building um that's one of the variances that we're seeking for parking um we have variants already mentioned for the imperious there's another setback variant for the new stair uh stairway that's going to be built in the rear of the building and perhaps more significantly we we are seeking a D2 uh density variance um which is why this application is before this board as opposed to the planning board um as I indicated it's a relatively small property and um under the zoning ordinance um we were allowed I believe approximately 2.9 uh dwelling units we're proposing six dwelling units including the one affordable um so those are the variances that we're seeking in addition to uh preliminary and final site plan approval I I'm planning to present three Witnesses this evening my first witness will be the project architect sitting to my right John lerro um follow Follow by Kalisto Burton the site engineer and then lastly Peter St to provide planning testimony in support of the variances um Mr pavl is also here and available to answer any questions that might arise during the hearing so uh if I might I would proceed I would uh call my first witness John leiro after he be sworn sir do you somly swear or affirm that the test you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do would you please State your full name and business affiliation for the record I'm John leero I'm the owner of leero architecture loaded uh land um located in Oakland New Jersey okay John you can have a seat um John I think you're new to this board so why don't you begin by um reviewing your educational background and your professional qualifications for the board of course um I graduated from Pratt Institute in 1980 um I started my career in Manhattan spent 22 years in Manhattan uh building and designing commercial space I I did uh very large commercial spaces and then I started getting into uh the high-end residential Market which is what I'm situated in right now I do a lot of high-end housing and I'm also doing a lot of Apartments um there's a a great need for a lot of apartments right now in New Jersey and it's a it's been a a great experience for me so I've done a lot of construction as well before I went to college I was a union carpenter I spent uh three four years before college and then during college that's how I supported myself so um I've done a lot of construction management building large malls before I situated my practice and I've been in practice probably uh I'd say uh 30 years now okay are you a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey yes I am any other states yes I'm licensed in Florida Maryland Pennsylvania Ohio New York uh I think that's that's enough okay is your New Jersey license at least in good standing yes it is okay have you appeared before other planning boards and zoning boards in the state of New Jersey yes I have and all those applications that you've been qualified as a as an architect yes okay Mr chairman offer we accept him as an expert architect thank you all right uh John you prepared the architectural drawings for this project correct yes I did okay um and those plans I know were revised several times I think the last revision date just so we're all clear is uh December 23rd 2024 is that right that's correct that's revision number four all right would you review the plans for the board using either the exhibit boards that you brought with you or the projecting screen and just walk the board through the set of plans you prepared okay um the first thing to we appeared in front of HPC and um it was very valuable uh they were very helpful in guiding us on how to alter because initially we had a canopy um and there was a lot of things we were doing that we thought were correct but um HPC really helped us shape the building and it's very appreciated so the the first thing to recognize with our building is that this section here is the original building that Saunders is in um we originally had we're going to put a canopy but with HPC we decided to leave it so that these these elements here these arches and this work up here this facade work this recesses that go in and out like that thing I can go here can you guys see this so all okay thank you Zan that's not good tripping Hazard so uh this this this part of the building here we're leaving pretty much intact we're going to leave the original uh glass we're going to put a new glazing on it an application to make it tempered um we plan on Le replacing brick that's damaged and we want to match the existing brick as best we possibly can we have some brick lined up that we found in Virginia that almost matches it exactly um we were going to have doors situated differently but through HPC it made sense for us to put leave the door as they are now so there's one door there and there's another door right there those doors are going to remain as they are we're going to replace those doors but this is in you know to respect the building and leave it as it is the transoms that are above the glass we also going to re repair as best we can and rep at minimum if during the repair process we find out that we can't we're going to replace them and make them exactly as they are now the same goes for the panels that are in the bul head the bulkheads on either side are pretty rotted out right now we're going to have to replace those but we're going to match what was there originally and and make it uh look as as good as it did as it did when it was originally constructed another great recommendation from um the historical group was to set back the upper addition now these two are the added floors that we've got on top we're going to set those back about 3 ft from the facade to create create some distinction between the existing facade and the new facade um a thing I think that's very important about this building is to know that all of the structural work we're doing is going to be supported independently in other words we have a new superstructure that we're bringing up through the floor new steel that's going to start in the basement with new footings and Foundations and pass through the existing roof and through the existing wooden structure the origin original structure is all wood um it's got a a very shallow basement that's about 6' 6'5 6'8 it varies a little bit um but the floor structure is in really great shape so we're um we're going to pass new steel up through and create a platform and then stick frame it on top of that in other words all wooden structure on top of the concrete platform um we don't want to touch the building at all um the first floor is going to be the restaurant dedicated to the restaurant the door on the left is the stair that takes you up to the apartments and the door in the center where it s situated now that's the door that gets you into the restaurant um we were going to place three trees in the front but we have a utility issue in here we have utilities coming out of the building right there which make it impossible to put a tree right there so we're putting trees flanking the building left and right uh we tried to keep the windows uh 6 over 6 which are historically correct um and we selected lighting that we thought was period lighting that worked with uh with this this whole building the the Brick in the front is is again is in surprisingly good shape but we think we can save it and bring it around uh let me advance this can't remember how to do this the mouse the mouse oh this one lost cuz I touched it is it okay if I use these the pictures I the uh boards I brought just be careful okay be careful there yeah I will okay this this is the right side elevation this is the right side elevation um you can see where we stepped back the building right there um we carried up the brick on the outside to kind of so your as your eye passes you can see the brick going up now our building is on a lot line on the on the long uh facades so we can't put Windows on those sides but HPC came up with a great idea and said why don't you consider doing something that looks decorative along the side of the building so we took the brick and we did this banding and we inter played it with uh stucco uh panels so that's what that would be doing there another thing to note is that the the rooftop equipment is mounted in the Cent towards the center of the building and more towards the back so you can't see it from the street level um this is our egress stair that we put on the outside we put a roof over it um we we uh made it uh recommend recommendation from HPC to consider doing um cast steel so that's cast iron so that's what we're doing this facade is very similar to the other side the same you can see the uh you can see the tree over here it's about the proper size that we'd have with it um the other elevation is very is exactly the same and this is the rear elevation did you want that so so I'm doing this so here's our stair going up here um there are two entrances we have uh to the back and here's our trash container on this on this side where our trash room I'll show you on the plan and this is our stack that's going up that has the kitchen exhaust and the makeup air we have a parit in the front and we're going to we're going to hook up to the existing drainage there's a new drainage connection connection that the civil engineer will talk about but we're going to do internal dra drainage on the roof so that we get all that storm drainage off and connect it into uh into the connections that are on the street um we also have well we have two we have one entrance for customers here and then this would be the employees entrance here now the back of the building is painted right now brick uh we think that we we're going to be able to chemically remove the paint and um The Brick should it looks as if it's very similar to The Brick that's on the front it's a little bit older but it has a red Hue to it so if we bring that brick around that we're doing in the front and on the sides it should match the same uh we're adding a little Landscaping feature over here and we put two uh little roofs over the uh stairs that take you downstairs or steps down into the um into the first floor so here's the mouse that okay um this is the existing basement plan um we're pretty much leaving it as it is we've got structural work we're doing in the front here to fix the bulkheads there is current over here a conveyor that we're going to use for deliveries uh we're going to keep that right there and this is uh an old opening and we're going to get rid of that we have one stair here uh that's going to be used for the restaurant to do storage and things like that um here's here is the first the first floor so our kitchen is in the back there's that stair that takes you down into the basement here's the stair that takes you upstairs to the first floor to the uh second floor Apartments this is all seating out here there's a beautiful brick wall That's dividing these two spaces we're going to enhance that a little bit and make them a little bit nice openings arched openings but we're going to keep the existing brick that's there the this end wall here and this end wall here are also the same sort of brick so we're we're going to leave that we're not going to build over that we're going to kind of create an atmosphere in the restaurant there's the entrance the restaurant there we're adding two bathrooms uh men's and ladies room on this side over here this is the stair for customers that'll come in and this is the stair again for the employees they have our trash storage over here which is in in in the enclosure you can see on the elevation and this is that stair that we're the uh bco that we're going to use for deliveries into the basement we have another storage bin over here that's going to be used for recyclables and that sort of thing um this is where we have our encroachment on the back because of our egress stair taking us out how we use this area here because we added a little Landscaping in here we're not sure yet um but I know we're definitely going to do plantings on on that in that little area there between the two doors this is the second floor so the way the second floor works there's two floors with three Apartments this stair comes up communicates through and then it accesses you to this egress stair and then it also connects to another stair that can take you up to the third floor again this wasn't ideal this wasn't ideal for our layout but in order to keep the doors and and understand what the the message HPC was given us it we had to move that door over and we had to dedicate that to the entrance for for the apartments it eats up a little bit of our space but it it it's the it's the right thing to do um yeah that's our roof below third floor it should be the same oh damn thing froze oh there it is third floor is the same basically the same layout again no windows on the end in the on the on the two ends because they're lot lines and of course when I say that we're worried about Future Property Owners building a building right next to our building and then having those windows which would change the uh whole configuration we certainly couldn't make those eress windows and this is the roof so with the roof you can see where we're placing our mechanical equipment in the middle um we have a roof hatch here and from the third floor which is accessible from the third floor to get up and service the equipment and those are our chimneys and uh again you can't the the rooftop equipment will not be visible from the street either from the front or the back so that's pretty much it couple of questions uh John how many seats are proposed for the restaurant um I think we're talking 43 okay and with respect to the apartments are they all two bedroom units yes they are and what are the square footages of those um roughly there are have them exactly rather than guess they're on the 700 753 ft 707 ft 757 ft they'll be the same on the all three floors on all two floors okay um now the entrance there's an entrance to the SEC to the upper floors in the front of the building you indicated the door to the left and and then there's also an entrance in the rear the new staircase is that correct yes there is um from the back through the uh the cast uh stair that we have back here I'm let me go back to the yes that's this stair right here okay all right and um deliveries to the restaurant would they be from the rear all yes okay all deliveries will all deliveries will be through the rear okay and they'll either come in through the bulkhead over here or they'll come in through the uh the separate door that we have right there okay I I should note for the board um and I have document to present um there's an easement for what's essentially a driveway that runs um from Lorraine Avenue to the rear of this property it was um created in 1935 so I believe it's 12T um again it runs behind the Valley Road buildings and to the rear of this property which of course the Hardware St use store use that for deliveries and we intend to continue to use it for deliveries as well as for um trash and recycling pickup as well correct okay so if I might um I've got several copies of this e like them more one I know we've talked about possibly putting outdoor eating out here a few tables again that's why we have a little bit of landscaping here right now um the back is there's a roof that goes from here through through here and the structure that's there now is kind of decrepit we want to get rid of that and and create a nice enclosure uh with a gate on it so that you don't see the uh you don't see the trash cans uh and that's why we're also putting a fence around these okay um you indicated that you spent some time with the store preservation commission certainly I think you were complimentary to the role that they played absolutely arriving at the ultimate design for this building yeah um very helpful have you um had an opportunity to review the memorandum from the HPC to the zoning board dated December 20th 2024 yes I did um okay do the plans that you've just described for the board um address or incorporate all of the comments and recommendations contained in that three-page memorandum from the HPC yes we we used them as our road map there was not a single uh recommendation that we ignored or we didn't address and we we hit I'd say every single one that item that was on the list okay because they were all very helpful okay all right that that's all I have Mr chairman yes thank you Mr chairman good evening Mr legero good evening um I have a variety of questions um and I I think I'm going to try to work from the basement work all the way up okay I'm want to try to to be disciplined in terms of doing that but we'll see so uh first of all can you would you please um talk about this basement floor I'm I'm I'm assuming that it's the original basement floor or what what do you know about from what we can see it looks like there was a basement floor there that was probably 4 in or so north of where it is now um because where the existing columns are I could see that's it was was cut and it was the the original columns that were there are still sitting there but the floor is down about 4 in the concrete slab so the slab that's there now is in pretty good condition M um it doesn't vary it doesn't move uh um there are some issues with water infiltration down there which we're addressing with our Engineers but uh the slab itself is in very good condition so we'll hear from the engineers in terms of what the intent is in terms of dealing with the water issue absolutely okay yes um so as far as you're concerned um though as as the as the uh architect that the basement floor as it currently exists is sufficient for this type of project that you're talking about it is but remember we're building a new structure so in fact that's I think you can see it on the basement plan you can see the size of the footings we're putting in um that that means that the existing slab is going to get cut up pretty pretty good so we have a big we have a structural engineer uh and we've sized the sizable pads to that peers that are going to take the Super structure that's going to come up and pass up in front of those brick walls on the on the flanking the building and go through through the roof we're going to leave the existing roof actually and build over it because older buildings like this it's not good to just start tearing them apart it's it's better to reinforce things as they are uh we have a nice high ceiling inside it's about I think it's about 12 feet or so something like that it's going to work out great with our plans for the restaurant the seating and the kitchen and so forth so we're leaving that structure we're passing through it and um we've got these steel pads so it's it's going to it's as much as I like the slab it's going to get cut up and we're going to pour new slabs that'll the new peers that'll top out and be flush with the uh the slab M so the the the the how how many of these steel beams do you anticipate columns yeah the columns columns probably I I think uh I think we've got like five on each side and we've got a couple in the middle I've got it if if you look at the basement plan uh drawing first floor yeah no I brought it I got it what the number five oh it's right here I hit it sorry yeah look at draw drawing A5 so if you look at drawing A5 you can see we've got use the screen or no okay one two 3 four five we've got six on the uh Northern side these are these little black boxes yes okay thank you and on the southern side we've got 1 two 3 4 five in the center we've got uh one two 3 and then one over by the stair now those dashed lines that you see on the plan those are the size of the per years so you can see they're taking up a lot of space um but you know it's appropriate and these will these will run from the basement all the way up to the roof to the second no no to the second floor to the second floor to the floor of the second floor exactly okay to to that that that that second floor and then we're buil we're pouring a concrete slab and then on top of that will be wood just typical wood framing okay and that that all sits over on top of the roof because where you see the columns that we've got we're we're running steel intermittently which will and then we'll have shorter members in between that'll support all of this again it doesn't it's there's a lot to go through to save the building but that's what we we thought was really critical and and are you um sufficiently uh convinced that what is being proposed by the engineer to address water will prevent um the rotting of these steel um pillars oh absolutely okay the first of all the the steel that's in the piers will be completely enclosed in concrete with about a 3-in clearance so um the problem we have in the basement now is we have a bit of groundwater so the groundwater is going to be dealt with by this the new sump pumps we're putting in there we're going to discharge and uh we're going to get it out of the building so um and as for I I this the steel quite honestly doesn't even get exposed to the elements going up through the building cuz it's all internal mhh okay and the building of these of these uh steel uh peers will not uh have any negative impact on the existing uh brick walls the external walls no that's we all we you know we talked about that and we decided that it's again cannot touch the existing building that's why if you look at the drawing these peers are in front of the face of the brick wall okay there's nothing passing through the brick uh we want it to all go in front of it and um that's why these peers are so big too they're they're kind of a what you would call A A Canal levered kind of Pier because ordinarily you have a a load that comes down in the center of a pier but because we've got these dynamics that are altering where we're putting The Columns the the engineer sized the steel and that's inside the reinforcement steel that's inside the piers uh to accommodate the the load coming down kind of on an off-balance sort of way but there would have to be some kind of drilling in order to to be able to put the the steel in there right is that no no uh what has to happen is the the the only violent work if you will is when you cut the slab you're going to saw cut the slab that's a saw cut process and then you'll hand excavate the Earth that's there and dig down to the depth of the footing that's a defined by the engineer I think it's I think it's like 2 feet or something like that okay uh and then what happens is the iron workers come in and they do steel reinforcement bars and they're all tied together and they have clearances from the edge of where the pier is going to go of about 3 in so there'll be layers of that they're they're set like this like one layer goes that way another layer goes that way so they're they're two directions and they size to accommodate the load and then once they're done there's actually there's a building inspection that comes and they inspect the footing bottom to make sure that the steel is all tied together and it's not halfhazard uh and then once we get those approvals we pour the concrete and there'll be stub ups and plates to accept the steel columns which will bear on top of it m so it's a very methodical uh process that's controlled by inspections uh and the engineers that that will do basically controlled inspections while we're going through the buildout okay um just one other question about the basement and then we'll move on to the to the first floor okay and and that is about uh ventilation in the basement what do how you how do you intend to address that since I'm assuming that there'll be food storage down there and I mean there'll be there'll probably be a refrigerator down there but mostly Dry Goods will be down there um they'll be we have a we have an engineer that's doing all the mechanical so we're not you know playing around with it a restaurant like this requires uh topf flight me mechanical electrical and plumbing engineering um sometimes um you'll see a lot of restaurants will just rely on the trades people and I don't I'm not knocking the trades people but this sort of thing has to be fully engineered with makeup air and all the things that you're talking about okay that's why we have a we have a number of pieces we actually have more pieces on the roof than I thought we were going to have but there's a that that that's a big deal we've got the drawings that are just about ready to go in into um hard construction documents but we we don't want to go too far until we find out how we do here this evening okay uh but there will absolutely be a air both delivered and makeup air that has to get um an exhaust that has to be dealt with down there and we I've seen the plans we have it already yeah so let's move to the first floor then and uh uh talk a little bit about the uh the the flooring that currently exists okay the cor the floor that's there now um is is is in surprisingly great shape there are essentially one two three four there are five bearing points um if we if you stay on drawing A5 there's the colonade that's in the middle there is the bearing walls on the outside there is the brick wall that's in the middle and then there's another column column line that's divide div divides the uh the upper section um that floor is not at all depressed or deflected I uh I you know if you guys have ever been into saunders's hardware store it's it was always a nice wood floor in fact we're going to keep a lot of that wood floor wasn't always easy to see it because very distracting there's so much going on you have to write make a list before you go in because you'll forget someone like me that's what happens you there's so much in there but the floors we're going to keep the floors we're going to refinish those floors um as we are the brick and and that was a plus because um building of this Age It's Not Unusual to find all kinds of deflection and chips and chunks and things falling apart but the only floor displacement that we have is in the front around the bulkheads because and that is only because the way the building was was constructed they have the inserts where you come into the store and the that actually is the basement underneath so the concrete when you walked into that store and you go through those little portals that's actually basement space underneath the building line is out here but those where the door is was over here so you have you know you had a lot of water infiltration that came in there m so our Engineers have come up with great plans to replace all that stuff okay uh I thought I heard you mention in your presentation about uh some kind of a stairwell for the customers towards the rear of the first floor yes explain that please yes sure okay so there's there's an access point right there and that's where if we had outdoor eating customers could sit out here or if a customer was eating here it goes to the bathroom uh restroom would like to go you know go out from there and exit through the alleyway they could do that um if apartment dwellers want to come in through this stair they could they could go up this stair and get into the uh apartments up above um customers again the entrance way is over here and those are those recesses right there where I talked about where they were exposed to the elements which are going to be fixed in our in our in our plan um the O the other access into the restaurant is right here which is a a new stairwell that we're making and again there's about a I think it's about I think it's 18 or 20 Ines that se that that this this part of the grade is higher here as opposed to the front where entrance is at the the grade level is is Right level with the street and the entire floor is level with the street but as you go to the back of the building grade lifts up over here so we have a few steps that come in and out and then this was the delivery over here to the basement and the corner there was an that's an existing bulkhead or I'm sorry um Bilco it's all rotted out but we're going to get rid of it and we we uh have a conveyor that we're putting in there to be able to sh get boxes and that sort of thing in and out okay and it shares the space with the uh trash bins but we we're going to we're going to maintain these trash bins as as frequently as we have to restaurants generate a lot of uh debris a lot of uh garbage and whatever it takes to maintain those that's what we're going to do to keep this uh to keep it clean it's got to be it's it's imperative that this all be kept clean particularly if we're considering doing some eating outside yeah so it is anticipated that there could be dining in that patio area in back is it also anticipated that there could potentially be dining on the sidewalk in the front no I we haven't at least I haven't spoken about that my my client hasn't mentioned that I don't think I don't know there I know there are some places in town that have that I don't know guess uh I know have you thought about that Michael I don't know okay I mean there are some establishments in that area that and we've got enough room there's enough room there to do it yeah I just wanted to know all right so um then uh the the roof uh for this what is currently now the roof of this building um you said it's going to be maintained is that correct the new roof or the existing roof the existing roof the existing roof is going to be covered over what does that mean so explain that to us there's a new structure that's going to come over it right I know there's going to be two stories put over there but I mean that what is currently the roof is that still going to remain or is that going to be removed no again we don't want to remove it because we don't want to we we we don't want to mess with the structure and start pulling it apart right you see a lot of this structure is into the brick buildings of this age they would use um they'd use the brick which is a brick a bearing brick wall and they'd make little car outes and that's where they'd bear their post into when you start messing with older buildings like that and start pulling stuff apart it just starts it just it goes on and on and on and it could loosen a lot of the brick and create a lot of problems for us so we decided to maintain the roof do the repairs necessary that there's some minor repairs we have to do to hold it together there's a couple of loose areas where skylights used to be um Saunders put a a as acoustical tile ceiling in so you can't see it but there's old skylights up there so we're tying that all up to make sure it's nice and stable then we're bringing our structure up through and we're If This Were the If This Were the existing roof right here we're coming up over and this is the new platform it's about 2 feet north of the existing roof so the one will not touch the other is what you're saying no no no touching and no bearing down on the existing building any at any point okay so uh take us into I mean as as you worked with your client U uh cuz now we're moving up to the to the the two levels above uh and um take us into sort of what what was the vision for for this project uh in terms of putting residential space above this this structure that's different than I think what exists on that stretch of of that block yeah um I I found that I again I mentioned earlier uh when I was describing the work I do I'm finding that a lot of CLI want like the mixed use um model where you have retail of some sort on the ground floor and then you have um dwelling units Apartments there's a great need for apartments for some reason probably because everything's so expensive uh uh on the Upper Floor it's good for business um in this case this is a great retail center it's such a beautiful strip um it makes great sense to create another source of Revenue uh and to to enhance the community with you know more great housing for people to access the Wonder the wonderful retail strips that are there the street that's there now so it was a mix it was a mix of enhancing the neighborhood and uh creating another Revenue stream I know that you know I mean that's a fairly common uh reality along Bloomfield Avenue um and um but is that is that common along the stretch of Valley Road on either side of the street yeah I think um I think Michael did a building right across the street uh that has housing uh has apartments above it there are a few buildings um so each of the the the floors above will have three um units correct and are all three units fairly comparable in size about the same yeah six to they're different uh seven let me read this Bo again yeah the third floor is a little bit bigger uh the third flare units are 816 809 and 812 the third floor is bigger cuz we don't have that hallway going through it okay and is it is it the the the units that are to the rear of the building those are the larger of the units no on the floor we tried to keep them pretty much the same there's not that much of a difference between 816 809 and 812 okay I think it was important to keep them the same the thing that was challenging is to create uh egress paths oops doing it again to create paths for Comm moving through and also providing uh daylight for the uh for the bedrooms we couldn't put the bedrooms on the side because of the uh the lot lines so we have to put the the bedroom the units again for the egress windows on the on the west and on the uh Eastern side of the building that's the primary criteria okay and has there been any determination as to uh the affordable uh unit uh which when it is no I haven't spoken to Michael about that yet I'm not sure okay but I think again it's important to know that the Departments are all pretty much the same size again the ones on the second floor are in the 700s 750 that sort of thing but uh I mean out of the six units we're talking about one affordable unit is that correct um and then um uh the I'm almost there that's okay I I got all night just I think it's just two more two more questions uh I'm I'm trying to stimulate my col U just on the um so you then have uh you mentioned uh that there is um uh way for ventilation from the restaurant on the rear of the building going up to the roof and can you speak about that and what is your intent or how do you see that um ventilation happening in a way that would not have an impact on the residence on those upper two levels yes that's a good question let me I'll get to the roof plan and show you all right okay so first thing to notice as it ties into the restaurant is this these two stacks right here one is a makeup air and one is the kitchen exhaust that's on the outside of the building we're going to enclose that if you look at the rear elevation that's a stack right there we're going to enclose it with brick mhm so so it's going up and then it's going to have a I I don't show it on this image cuz I wasn't sure what type they were using but there'll be a head on top of that that takes the uh the air as it's leaving the uh the exhaust from the kitchen it'll be it'll be pushing it in a direction away from all of the the back of the back of the building where the windows are so it's it's already taking it from down there and bringing it up and it's got it up on the roof um these units here are all handling all of that air I'm you know I'm not an engineer but I know that we have um makeup air we have fresh air we have air conditioning and heating all of that sort of thing it's all being mounted up here but the exhaust for the kitchen and stuff is being um ending right over in here up on the roof it's away from the street uh and and it's three stories up that should be sufficient to keep it moving out of the area then uh just staying on the rear you talked about the U the stairwell um for um access for the apartments uh and uh in terms of the material of those steps uh what is the material and how do you anticipate addressing issues like ice and snow on those stairs well we have let me uh get to the back elevation oops sorry okay so the the the stairs will be all steel um they'll have diamond plate Treads uh closed risers it also be diamond plate um all painted black steel uh we have a roof over here um in terms of the uh ice and the snow and the that sort of thing the inclimate weather we we probably should extend that roof out farther um I just I'm seeing that now but on the inside we have we have two stairs on the inside of that building we're actually almost providing a third stair that's like a third stair almost um although that interconnecting stair really doesn't count so it's only the two the one in the rear and one in the front so the the the construction of this will be ample enough to withstand the elements and stuff it's just the roof we we probably have to extend it out to cover it up okay all right okay and then my last my last question uh is um since you have that drawing up there uh helps is the stuckle yes um so um that is uh is is your presentation intended to communicate to us that the Stucker will be sort of this yellowish sort of color and is that is that painted stucco or is that tell us about so the stucco is a synthetic stucco it's not the uh hard true not the uh the traditional the older the new stucco that's got the styrofoam and that sort of thing this is a real stucco that's going to be attached onto the building with welded wire mesh galvanized welded wire mesh um it'll have Expansion Joints uh as to the color right now we just wanted to pick a light color that that works that compl the brick so we picked it's the it's not quite that yellowy color but it's it really is pretty close but we were looking for something that's creamy light colored um that reflects a lot okay and but it's a hard coat stucco it's not the uh Stow or one of those time of type of products that are that just get eaten up by birds and don't hold up well so you you talked about you know going at length to to find the the right brick that would complement uh the original structure and uh can we assume then that the material that you're you're proposing in terms of the stucco would also have a great durability great durability that absolutely we you know we want to build at once we don't want to have to come back and and Michael has built a number of things he's a very uh he wants it built right the first time and that's that's what we're going to do make sure that it's a especially getting to the side of these building you know you don't want to have to ever get on the side and have to worry about coming back because of shotty construction so we've got good people lined up to build this and uh we want to make sure that it's a good hard quat of stucko okay thank you for your patience you you're welcome Mr Church you have any questions um sorry has um you has any uh was any thought given to the uh idea that there'd be less than six units at the up there uh and make what you have architecturally drawn make those apartments bigger or was this the plan as it went sorry no we originally did have four that was my thought four to me makes sense yeah but we I the for different reasons we ended up with six and um that's that's the so you there's no plan there's no idea to reduce Well we'd like to we would like to advance six that's what we're going for if it would the build if your question is would the building still work with four it absolutely would yeah that's I saw yeah I thought was that um the other question I had I forgot I'll uh that's all I have okay Mr Crawfield did you um think of maybe making one of them a duplex one of the units maybe you could lessen to five and so my client hasn't asked for that but anything's possible it could be I don't know what that does for marketing if that enhances that's a whole another question but architecturally and what we have in our the footprint of our building we could do that um the trash containers there's one for the restaurant I guess the bigger one and the other one that's by the stairs going down by the fire escape deck area in the back is for the residents is that correct well I'm not sure I'm not trying to push it on the civil engineer but he's got it defined on his drawing exactly he's going to render his testimony after myself um but I I think the build the the trash cans and I may be mistaken that's why I'm checking myself the can the the uh the trash can cans that we have towards the stair are for recyclables perhaps I think that's what it is and the two that are in the enclosure one is for the rest probably one will be for the restaurant and one will be for the residents okay and again the management of that has to be really on they have to be on top of that make sure they're constantly being emptied okay um the plants now um you have you have plants on the back line there uh what are those plants do you and the height of those plants d i don't are you if it's for the engineer just say that yes it's for the engineer okay I feel I don't want to push it on him he's got enough things to talk about sorry kisto show the plantscape gotcha it's true I got them mixed up um but they are I can tell you they're low shrubs um okay uh the restaurant is just one restaurant it's not two restaurants correct no it's going to be a very high-end Michelin restaurant um and that is one with a very special Chef uh from Europe and uh my client can't wait to get it going okay um let's see residents can use the back fire escapes to get in and out of the building yeah I don't see why not okay the only thing about that is I I see I think we have to extend that roof out for the uh for the stair yeah um it looks like on the survey that the back corner is higher and that when the water is in the back there it usually comes down the driveway and goes out to Lorraine do you think that that feature will happen again I mean I know you have some I'll ask the the engineer's got that covered I know we spent a lot of time talking about it I'm sure he's got it covered okay thank you you're welcome Mr Vieira yeah thank you Mr chairman um I do have a few questions so in the basement um you've talked about a a new structure that will be built um inside of the building do you have to cut or remove existing brick walls that's part no nothing you're not touching not touching the brick wall that's the most important part of again that's the reason we did it because we didn't want to take things apart um digging the holes down there is going to be enough but it's away from you know the major elements um and I would say while we're digging those elements well those peers uh just to be on the safe side that brick will be um shorted up just in case you never know where older buildings things start moving so when that work is being done the existing structure will be very positively short up and held together temporarily until our new super structure P work is completed okay uh the other question I had uh was um I guess the existing roof in the building you mentioned that you will keep that existing roof how does the fire rating separation between the business and the uh I guess the uh if anything it enhances it enhances it because it creates greater distance um and the other thing that creates a great fire separation for us is the concrete floor so when you see this building get built the first thing you'll see is the steel stubbed up then you'll see the entire from front to back will be one flat plane of concrete so that's a great fire separation between the what's going on on the first floor and the upper floors the both floors yeah essentially separating the the kitchen with the residential completely it's a I don't know what the rating is but I would I would I would bet it's in the three four hour yeah at least two hours somewhere in there more than absolutely yeah okay so and the other question I had was on the third floor um you've talked about uh uh roof hatch access to to the roof or uh the rooftop equipment uh will there be a fixed ladder how does the access yes there's a fixed ladder to the it's a ships ladder if you you'll see it on drawing A8 and it's a it's a lock lockable fixed ladder so that you know Wise Guys can't climb up there and party up on the roof so what it is it's a l it's a ship's ladder that's attached to the wall it's got a cover that goes over it so no one can access it and climb up and then it's got a hydraulic uh roof hatch that you hit a button and the thing Springs open uh it'll spring open against the outside of the building for a safety Factor actually and then that'll be access um when we build the building they'll they'll probably break uh the Rooftop and so forth will probably come up in pieces um it'll all be broken down so it's a good size hatch too and it's in a an area that's good for service because it's by the stair the rear stair so service people can get in that way and go down that hallway and get up to the roof pretty pretty quickly okay and and then moving on to the to the rooftop so you're uh proposing a parit in the front is that correct yes yeah and but around the building and the perimeter there's no parit no uh what we're doing with the parit is the existing building has uh what we call Camelback uh camel camel Camelback Stones if you look at the existing building now it's got those stones that are period and they they're uh like ceramic and they're set on top of one another they're overlapping so we're going to do that on the lower roof if you'll see on the drawing that those little indications we have there but along the sides again because it's the side we brought back the camel backs in the front of the street coming in maybe 3 or 4 feet and then we go to an aluminum copi that's just about six seven inches above the surface of the roof okay all right thank you you're welcome Mr Cruz uh no questions okay Mr Moore thank you chair so regarding the Mechanicals the HVAC system that's on the roof have you done a a sound study so that it does not so that the noise isn't too loud for I have not good question but I have not um but again we have Engineers that did it and I could get that information for you um but I'm sure they have I'm sure they have given the situation that are there someone over there is he the engineer oh no he's a civil engineer but he also is doing the mechanical but I don't oh my off yeah not not okay you know just want to be mindful of our neighbors um I can get that answer for with that type of you know it'll be running a lot absolutely so we just want to take but I believe I believe it's it's pretty the equipment that's going up there is housed in um really great enclosures I've seen the list of the equipment and it it runs PR the equipment that we they make today runs pretty low the for the acoustical problems that can come about with that okay we we I ran into a lot of that in my days 22 years I spent in Manhattan so I'm very sensitive to that the other thing that you have to be cognizant of when it comes to Rooftop equipment is the vibration right so there are two issues sometimes the vibration is more disconcerning than the sound so we're we're on that I mean that's a I I don't have the data to give you the numbers but we could get that for you okay thank you and you know just make sure you take it into consideration when no I think it's a great consideration I think it's important so this building was built in what year do you know the build 19 1912 according to 1912 historic Consultants report okay so I know that you're saying that there will be like minimal um disruption of the building but there still will be some oh you of course you have to you know it wasn't my first choice to leave that existing plate glass there um I would preferred to see nice muttons on there and a little bit more Housey but HPC uh kind of U made us realize the importance of keeping everything as close as we can to what it once was so a good example for that is we're going to have to put a film on top of that to keep it so that it can't shatter so it's a it's it's a safe on both sides um and and that's what we're going to have to do the the transom work above some of it is not salvageable but we're going to make it look exactly as it looks now and it'll look even better the bulkhead underneath which is the knee wall that supports the glass that is completely almost rotted out and we're going to have to we're going to have to build it and reconfigure it as it was in its original day which was this this thing I've been carrying around with me these these little panels underneath I don't think we're going to make them white but we're going to replace these panels just like they were which will add a nice touch to it okay how about uh have you tested for hazardous materials yeah we we that's the first thing Michael did when he purchase the building okay so we're fortunately we're clean it's a very very good thing that we're there's nothing there that was uh you know that would expose this in any way okay which is great you know I think one of the reasons is because typically in buildings of that age asbest well you know what it is it's the the tile particles yes especially on the tile because that's was the little 9x9 tiles absolutely and it's it's it's not even the tiles it's more the adhesive that's got the asbestos in it so fortunately it's a nice hardware store with those beautiful wood floors we didn't get any of that so no tile in there and the other place that just you sometimes run into it is with the plaster but it came up clean or the windows The Brick windows so sometimes in the windows there may be like non Frable yes this so I I've done work on projects like this so just be mindful of that yeah because you know the neighbors are breathing this in oh yeah okay um okay we're this is a very precious building and we want to treat it with the respect that it deserves and that's why we we really altered the building tremendously to make sure that it that we did just that okay from our original design all right um regarding drainage and I know everyone's kind of touched on that um what are you looking to uh put into the basement um you know are there will there be French drainings are there existing French drainings will there be a sup pump that runs off not into the street but there's some type of proper Channel yes uh Kalisto will be speaking to that um but we're definitely there's a there's a situation down there now that is not correct and we're going to fix it okay uh we're going to do proper drainage there and make sure that we get the two big things for us is getting the roof dra the roof storm drainage away from the building and the groundwater um the roof the roof again we're putting internal drains up on the roof and then we're going to connect it to uh the existing um we're putting some new components in which Kalisto will speak to but we're going to make it all go into the street into the existing drainage system in the street nice yeah um six units right yes I think I I saw on the application it has it as four units yeah as I said earlier that's what was the original but um we thought it might work better with six okay so I guess we'll just need to modify that right if that's an application that was submitted right yeah okay did you and um I know that we and this may be a question for the chair um um I know that we had talked about um if you own a certain amount of uh units within Monclair uh that there at some point there's a threshold that factors in affordable housing well they under the existing ordinance they're required to have one unit as affordable and they for the sixth unit they will have to do a contribution to the affordable housing fund okay so one is compliant or two one is compliant okay with a contribution for having six units I think it's a a u a wonderful project oh thank you we put a lot into we've been working on it for a long time okay thank you okay thank you Mr Griffith um I'm probably going to repeat a number of questions and things that we've talked about I'll try and be quick that's okay um I do appreciate the attention that you put into the work that you presented thank you um I'm just going to go through this list it's not organized in any horri okay uh well fought um order um you're reusing the existing glass as you pointed out and you're putting the film on it so it's not dangerous which is right we're basically were making it tempered I understand well if you put a film on it it's going to hold it together you're making laminated not tempered but let's not let not parse right yes okay let's Okay okay so it's uninsulated and so I just question and this you you will figure this out because you'll have to are you going to you have to comply with the energy code the energy code is not going to be sympathetic to masses like that you uh also there's thermal heat Comfort thermal comfort that you have to comply with you put seats up by that window do you have fin tube underneath the window we're again the engineers have done that and that's that's what we're absolutely we're going to have to we have to your your point is well taken we absolutely have to listen again that wasn't my first choice it's I understand it's just you know um this is a minor point but the soldier course that you show above the windows stops at the window Jam but the steel lentil continues on usually the soldier CH course goes to the end of the steel LEL you don't have to respond to this that's okay cuz it's not okay you're referring to the above the windows right there in the soldier above the windows the vertical brick which I refer to as a soldier course and I'm saying that traditionally it usually goes to the end of the steel lentil on either side and it stops at the window opening which is somewhat unusual and I worry about cracking in the other at the brick that's not Soldier coursed I could I was I I hear what you're saying I was trying to stay historically correct and I I I I'm thinking of the same thing I could run a couple courses B past I suggest running the soldier course further would be more historically correct but you look into that and you can do the right thing thank you yes great great Point are the windows double hung yes they are and obviously you're providing egress windows with a low sill and the appropriate area right absolutely all those windows are egress yep the the Le glass that you have over the windows down below on the ground floor it is the existing is Leed glass is the new Leed glass that's we're trying to restore the exist as much of it as we can and then whatever is new we're going to have to do we're going to have to match it we can't stick aluminum in there or something we're going to have to do something that matches let glass is good I like that that's a good answer I like it thank you um the rooftop equipment you don't have parapets on the side you have equipment on the roof show me the OSHA railing railing yes what I know I know it's not drawn no it's not nobody else saw it to comment on it no but I was thinking about it I'm thinking no no because these are not such a good job with the drawings come on don't don't get me I'm thinking about it what about raising the parit higher and then you don't have to have the oer railing we could do that I know it costs more money we I ask you to consider that it's a it's I will I absolutely will um access to the roof the hatch you say it's a ship's ladder but it's a vertical ladder it's not a ship ladder and it's a hatch so I don't understand understand how I get a new compressor up to the roof or I take an old one down from the roof let alone just me getting up there with a toolbox I know that I could probably figure it out it looks very very difficult but to put it another way if it's difficult to get to it usually isn't maintained very well well you know I spent a lot of time in Manhattan with access problems and we would break equipment down that's how it would come it would come in component parts and bring it up through the the whatever access points we had so I've got to get into it with the engineer again I appreciate your point and I'm not pushing it off because I've been thinking about it these aren't construction documents yet but pretty close but I have to worry about that and I I will absolutely address so you have you have two options that would that are somewhat easy uh somewhat painful uh less painful is extending the stair at the back your basically your steel steel stair at the back yeah um we can do that there's objections to that I'm sure cuz it'll get start to look high uh but that stair that goes up to the roof doesn't have to have a cover over it only the stair below the roof wherever you have a egress path for the apartments that has to be covered from the elements and you have to cover that whole stair right absolutely and I would suggest that you put something up on the sides to keep the wind driven snow and rain off of that surface just so that the ownership isn't burdened with having to send somebody up there to clean it every time it snows I had something there but HPC thought it would look better like this so safety comes first safety comes first it's just a point to think about but y i i want I would like you to register and consider it um so help me out here on the old bricks are you reusing existing bricks or leaving existing bricks in place both we're using on the ground floor in the front facade we're keeping all of that brick as it is and and we're going to repoint it restore it and spot unfortunately it doesn't need much restoring it's it's a lot that takes you up to the setback yeah so that's all existing brick that you're just cleaning up and reusing and repointing and then the new brick is on the setback second and third floor which I'm I'm I'm a huge fan of the setback really nice yeah uh and the rendering shows the brick above matching the brick below that's the point w you know I found it in Virginia if you found it did okay great I I wanted to go buy it but it's it's very hard to do sometimes so congratulations and that's great it's a big country I got a lot of access points um we're getting there you can put Windows and lot lines right no you can you have to if they build a new building there you have to break it up but you can put in uh what wire wire glass right I I guess from my time in man it just rub it just doesn't make sense to do it I can't I would never do it for egress but not for ESS I I know just for daylight and different places I guess you could and then it would have to be if someone does add to it you'd have to I understand there's a consideration I have no basis to ask you to do this yeah I understand all right um basement ESS the basement has one way in and one way out is that really legal and on the ground floor you have a stair that goes up to the second floor from the street and you could have a stair that goes down to the basement underneath that stair so you could have a second means of ESS and access to the basement from the restaurant floor without any compromise to the usable space we could and I wonder why you don't consider that I I certainly will the front St the front stair you're talking about the front stair on the Northern section S I think the restaurant people would appreciate more direct access to the basement as well um ventilation in the basement we talked about that that's important ster of the roof we talked about uh this will be me me quibbling and I apologize it's okay but the you're leaving the roof structure in place the existing roof structure you're going to take the material the water perfect Material off yes okay yes absolutely the structure is what we don't want on the roof there's a kitchen there's a kitchen kitchen Hood vent right next to the makeup air kitchen Hood vent you and I both know is not nice no right it's full of oil and grease and it has to be clean vigorously every year y it's it's not a nice thing and that makeup air next to it is probably just make up air for the kitchen hood is that correct correct so the riddle is where's your air for the ground floor restaurant coming from I appreciate the point again I have to get the mechanical and the drawings to I can't wait to meet meet your mechanical yeah I know um and you just just to clarify to be very really clear the the Stu out on the sides of the building it's it's real cementitious stucco like 3/4 of an inch it has a it has a rough coat a top coat unwelded wire excellent yep thank you very much you're welcome okay um I think I can do this quickly um the can you just go over the doors front and back as to what's staying in place what's going where and just do that quickly sure and let me maybe simplify this CU we just kind of covered it in the front the door on the Northern side of the building is for the goes to the apart will now go to the apartment is that correct that is correct and the the door on the southern side of the front facade is going for the restaurant that's correct okay so go through what's happening in the rear okay sorry it's not moving okay all right so um this is the stair that goes up to the apartments this is also to your point sir the stair that we might we might add another stair underneath here this is the door that leads you into the apartments this this back here right now is an existing access point that we're going to enhance with new stairs new door and that's intended for customers going in and out uh through the back and also um I guess anyone can go through and it's it's another means of eress out uh there's a bulkhead door there that we're getting rid of an ex a bill code door that's there now we're getting rid of and we're going to close that that open opening up inside so that these stairs still you know will work this is the new stair we're putting in here and this is intended solely for the employees and the access point in and out of the kitchen this bulk head that's over here or this bill Co that's here we're just going to leave the stairs there's a nice set of concrete stairs there that takes you into the basement with a conveyor on it we're going to keep that and put a new bill Cod door on top of it okay so that that's where the conveyor the Bilco in the center that's being closed off and leveled and would become part of the patio is that's where the plantings are going okay there's actually this whole area right in here is going to have all planting beds and and when we think about eating area we're talking about this area right in here yeah you know maybe four three four tables maybe five okay it wasn't just pattio wasn't distinguishing plants versus people just yeah what will now be a prettyl looking area in the back versus what is now a singular unattractive yes it is um okay the the other question I have in the rear is the the existing shed that's there is that remaining no okay that's being totally removed and just what you're showing in terms of the garbage recycling containers yeah this we're doing a new brick enclosure uh keep want to go to my drawings uh we're doing a new brick enclosure uh that I think is pretty attractive with a nice gate in front of it an open gate this thing doesn't ever cooperate with me oh there we go I'm G to go to my picture okay I'm I'm I'm not that I I've seen your drawings I'm I'm okay I'm just confirming the existing structures going away and being replaced by this new structure somewhat different Lo somewhat move yep okay um the historic preservation commission I understand you're following that but one thing was not clear to me and I just want to confirm that they had a preference for schematic 2 since we didn't see schematic 1 versus schematic 2 do your plans reflect schematic too yes okay yes um the will the equipment on the roof be visible from the street or from the parking area not at all okay and the the the most thing you'll see is the chimney going up and the how we deal with the rest of it from that point on will not be visible okay okay now when you're building the addition how are you going to access the area for construction through the alleyway all deliveries everything's going to have to come from the back and there's going to be enough room to yes we we thought about we actually thought about maybe doing modular at one point but because of the logistical issues and everything we would need to get in there we're not going to do that it's it's much better for the area to stick build the structure just like you would a conventional home or it's I mean my my concern and your this I should ask so there'll be no need for any concern construction equipment in the front of the building no no need for scaffolding anything of that well we might put we'll put protection up we'll probably have to while that's the right thing to do during construction to put a a scaffold there to make sure that there's no debris or anything that falls out but that would be on a temporary basis about how long do you think it would have to be there um I think I don't know maybe three four four months maybe something like that 3 to four months we could we could stage the construction so that that front end stuff the stuff that's dangerous would get done first and then work our way to the back I think just you know coordinating with the other merchants in the area to when they would prefer to have sidewalk access restricted um you know we may end up doing something uh because we have the setback we may end up coming up with some creative way to scaffold it and put a catch all uh from the second floor and extend it out and candle it out somehow that's another way to get around that because it's only two floors I understand it's just I I understand surprised how excited people geted something new appears on their sidewalk I again the 22 years I spent in Manhattan the sidewalk scaffolding because of the local LA 10 was a windfall for sidewalk scaffolding people but the the scaffolding had to go 20 feet left and right into the adjoining Merchants it was horrible okay anyone else with questions any questions from members of the public for this witness you want to call your next witness yes cicio Burton please thank you guys okay sir do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do would you please State your full name and business affiliation for the record sure it's Kalisto Burton c a l i s t o Burton b r t i n I'm the principal of Burton engineering and we're at 66 Glenn Avenue and Glenn Rock Burton I I know you've appeared before the boards in Montclair in the past but probably not in recent memory at least for me so why don't you just uh briefly U provide the board with your education background and your I qualification degree in civil engineering from Villanova University a master's degree in engineering from renier poly Technic Institute that was a long time ago um I've been licensed in New Jersey since 19 1984 and New York in 1983 I'm also licensed in Massachusetts Rhode Island and New Hampshire and I have an office up in Massachusetts so um I my my main field of of expertise is civil engineering but the office also does structural engineering and me engineering and we're doing the me for this building okay when you're test testifying tonight as a civil engineer as a civil engineer yes you accept those qualifications your LIC current yes yes yes it's current yes we accept him all right um pleas so you prepared the site plan submitted with this application correct yes would you um review the plan for the board sure using whatever exhibits you prefer now if I go like this will this all right so um the first sheet have here is C 1.1 oh it's dated 12 23 24 um so we have the site plan you could see on the top of the page is Lorraine Avenue and that Alleyway that was discussed before that comes back to 12T Alleyway that comes back to the area behind the building because we're the third building from Line Avenue from the intersection all right so um the building is there it occupies most of the lot we have a about a 27t setback uh in the rear line area um let's see we propose as as discussed before to replace the shed for the uh trash and recycling um my understanding is that we'll do the recycling in this building for the apartments but the trash for the apartments would be in this little Trash area back here we'll have three um containers with covers on them and that's an offens in area um what we proposed here was we were asked to dress up the rear of the property and the area here you can see it's hatched was perious pavers we were also asked to look at drainage and so what happens is these perious pavers allow water to penetrate through and they hold a 100-year storm so we actually reduce runoff from the back right now runoff um it's it's very flat but it does flow towards the rain Avenue so this area here will absorb the water that falls on it um we have I'm going to go to the next sheet okay I'm going to C 1.3 which shows our Landscaping plan so we have a row of arborite 4 to 6 feet high planting it'll go to 12 feet or so um along the rear property line because right now this is open to the next property there's no curb there there's there's curb along most of the alleyway but at this area there isn't so we're going to put a curb and we'll we'll plant that so that's that's three foot wide planter and then up against the building we'll have arborite up against the building with aelas in front of that right and so this way we've now kind of U made this area here a little bit more wholesome um whether they use it for outdoor seating or not we'll H we'll we'll find out but anyway we we've done that and we have this area again as perious pavers to help uh draw in the uh the drainage now we did not want to do a dry well because that goes down too deep and it could affect the basements this is now it's only 12 in thick so it'll it'll stay on the surface um in the front yard there is one tree there now I think we were asked to put in three trees but our utilities come through the middle so we could put in two trees so we could take out the tree that's there and put in two new trees or we could leave the tree that's there so I I just because it's it's it's a substantial tree uh that's that's there now but we were planning on putting in two again in the middle there's utilities so we can't we can't plant it um right now the drainage for the roof is collected in a pipe that's along this South Wall it's behind the wall it comes through the underneath the sidewalk and out through the curb I think it's it's a 3-in pipe that's how drainage is now um that drainage was blocked when PSC and G did some work that's would caus the water problem in the basement that's been corrected we don't really have that issue now um but there will be a sum pump in the basement but we now we don't have a drainage issue in the basement so what we propos to do is now with a new roof we will come out in roughly the same area but we were going to put a 6in PVC pipe and tie into the storm drain that's out in the middle of Valley Road so it'll be a it'll be a saddle connection like a sewer connection normally you do a manhole but we'll see what the county wants but right now we have as a saddle connection like a sewer going into the storm drain out in it's it's in the northbound lane of Valley Road so that that that's how we'll take the roof drainage um we mentioned that the the two stairs in the back you step down three steps or so to get down because the grade in the back is a foot and a half higher than the grade in the front so we'll have um drains at the bottom and that'll be connected to a sum pump which will then connect it to the the roof discharge and it's it's not going to be that much water but if you don't have a sum pump it's a pain in the neck so anyway we'll we'll do that and that'll connect to the drain that comes out to the front um the site has a 2-in water line which is good for domestic but the building will be sprinklered it wasn't discussed before but they'll the whole building will have to be sprinklered because we got residential over commercial and that that interstitial space between the roof two roofs the new floor and the roof that has to be sprinklered too so we're going to bring a 4-in water line in for the sprinkler system um I did not look at the mechanical plans I know my office is working on them they're nearly done but the rooftop units will also provide air air conditioning for the uh restaurant so we'll have shafts coming down and the basement will be air conditioned as well okay um the rooftop units will be either enclosed but they are um the the the sound is not such that they'll they have a we will not we will not break the sound requirements at the property line right okay can continue uh let's see I I I'm trying to hit the points that you were asking questions about and and anyway so um we do have lighting um we you show the lighting was shown it's it's a globe in the front we were using the same light in the rear and you could see these lines here are the isolux lines so that's one foot candle and that's a half a foot candle I think the limit at the back property line supposed to be. 3 so the only way to do that is we'll change the lighting in the back to wall pack units I don't know that it's so important that we have the decorative globe lights in in the back right so they'll they'll be in the front and you can see the one foot candle line does go out beyond the sidewalk and the half a foot candle is in the street but it's supposed to be that's you're supposed to light up that sidewalk okay it's just the back we'll change that yeah here's the globe light there's not lot to the site so I I'm going to end there and you can I'm sure you'll have questions um let me uh that's some follow-up questions um I I think this is a minor point but it was referenced in the engineer's letter um in the front of the building you know proposing the new trees tree or trees and you're also proposing to relocate a trash can public you know in the on the sidewalk the engineer had an issue with that is that is that a problem no um what happens is there's a there's a trash can um that's right in front of the building we just we were replacing the sidewalk we just moved the trash can down here we'll put it back it's it's a it's a large trash I think it's multiple Recycling and garbage so we'll just move it back in front of the building yeah that's another point I'm not sure you mentioned that earlier but the replacing the the entire sidewalk yes yes and and curbs curbs and sidewalk will be replaced in the front County will make us do it anyway okay okay yeah um I know when you submitted the plans you you also provided a letter uh responding to the board engineer initial report correct and then he responded with a u updated report January 11 2005 correct have you had a chance to review that report yes I have and I specifically want to direct your attention to section six of that report which includes uh a number of comments um from the engineer relating to drainage uh yes um did you have a chance to review those comments and can you indicate whether you're willing and able to comply with those comments specifically uh yeah he asked for a couple of comments that we're going to connect the sum pumps to that the the drain pipe and we'll just put notes on the plan they're already on the mechanical drawings but we'll put notes on the site plan to address that what about his comments in section 6.13 A and B regarding testing requirements design requirements okay so um that we have to do if you're going to put an infiltration system you have to test the ground to make sure it can percolate and we have to be 2 feet from the groundwater I believe that's not going to be a problem but we'll do those testing he also mentions that we're not supposed to have infiltration within 10 ft of the S of property line so um the system we propose is 3 feet from the back line and against the the house the the building next door so what we'll have to do is we'll leave the pavers there we'll just take the infiltration and move it back so we're 10 ft away he also says we don't need to do this but we're doing it out of you know out of out of uh uh just trying to be good neighbors okay I mean this meaning the infiltration system it's not required that we do storm water reduction but we're doing it as we can okay and I think already mentioned with respect to his comment in section 8.1 regarding the lighting that you're going to revise the lighting right we'll revise the lighting fixtures in the back so we don't uh go over the property line we'll work with the architect because if we are going to do outdoor seating you need proper lighting back there but we don't want it to extend onto the we may put a u an areal light or low area light okay okay are there any you know any comment um in the engineers revised report from January 11th that you're unable no he asked us to TV the sewer line which we will we got to make sure that's good because that Line's been there since 1916 it's probably need to be lined or cleaned out okay all right um I think that's all I have Mr chairman yeah thank you Mr Burton just a couple of questions for you so uh just going back to uh my earlier line of questioning about the water in the basement you mentioned uh sump pumps um tell us a little bit more in terms of what the plan is and also do you know what is the source of the water that is well the the water was coming because there was a clog on the roof drain and that was backed up because these are old pipes so it came backed up through a joint and got into the basement that's been corrected so we don't have that water problem but you know there's always a chance you can have groundwater come up during heavy storms and um so we have a sum pump and the under under the uh under the concrete slab it's it's granular material so it'll na naturally navig gate to the sum pump so we don't have to put a a trench drain around the prop around the building okay uh then you also mentioned uh in your presentation you talked about air conditioning for the restaurant uh is the air conditioning also being provided for the apartments yes yes the rooftop units will provide air conditioning for the apartments okay yeah because we're not going to do Pacs or through the wall units keep you didn't mention that that's why right right right it'll be rooftop for the apartments okay and then uh finally in just in terms of the new sidewalk uh I mean is this going to be something different in terms of the sidewalk or is it going to be uh is it merely a sort of a refresh of what is the existing style of the sidewalk um what we were planning was just to do concrete because that's what it's in the area if there was a design you wanted to do I don't know I mean we could do it here but um we were just going to replace the concrete yeah I wasn't asking for a design I just wanted to know what what refreshment okay so the whole whole Frontage will be brand new okay thank you Mr CH yeah uh you mentioned the uh the trees in the front of the building now the tree yes there's one tree sort of in the middle okay and and you still you going to leave that tree or you going to uh and add two to the side or does that tree have to come out well that tree was going to come out to replace to put the two trees in six and one Haven yeah yeah yeah okay cuz you know why take down to one tree but I think the request was for Three Trees we just can't get three trees in um that tree in the in the front now is that a a a cherry blossom tree or but my point is can it be matched it's a um a Princeton Sentry okay Ginko Bova okay that's I guess I think that's where we tried to match the trees that are there okay the tree that's there is a spring flowering tree I'm not sure exactly what it is but it's spring flowers yes he he was proposing the Ginko to for the two trees on the site on the site could they could you get match him uh yes I would I would like to see him matched I just aesthetically sure I I walk there you done I'm done I'm done Mr callfield um s quick question um on the list of documents there's something about a Wi-Fi server letter request addressed water Bureau and Sewer facilities is that we we we we sent out we were asked to get will serve letters from all the utilities and we got will serve letters okay sorry I didn't see that um across the street is a taller building that has a lot of um I guess um cellular collection data stuff on it would that be something that would happen here or no probably not if it's across the street they they're not going to want to put it here um okay so my question to you is the the Shrubbery that we have that's going to grow 3 to 4 feet in the back well it's planted the it's planted four to six feet but it'll grow to 12 12 feet in the back the arbor yeah yeah 12et okay along the back the the the trees these along here I have them in my backyard they'll grow about 12T tall that's a right NE right behind that is a parking lot I feel like they're going to just eat that Shrubbery up when they make their turns what's the what's the story of someone like having a heart attack and running their car right into the you know the the people that are eating dinner out there well we we are putting a curve up there but it's a good point we could put a couple of ballards um either on the curb line or on the inside of the shrubs just to protect them are you concerned of like uh people that have been eating at the restaurant going down that driveway to Lorraine just the the condition of that driveway is is that a concern for you at all or no um my recollection it's in decent shape um I don't know that I I think it's just a mean a second means of egress I guess if people park in the parking lot in the back oh you can't get to that Park lot from here can't get there from here no you can't so I don't know why they would go out lra I could see the residents going out to lra if they're if they're walking to the train station or parking in the the other building in L rain okay if residents come into the back and people are eating is is there going to be ways for them to get in there or is that just going to be like join the party type of bit join the party walk through thank you Mr viea thank you Mr chairman I think it's taking notes good evening good evening um uh regarding fire protection you you mentioned there will be sprinklers in all four correct um there will be a new connection yeah new 4in water line has to come in okay individual to what's a what's existing to the existing is for domestic domes and that's fine for the domestic but for the fire we need a new 4in line that we checked out and I I was involved in that right away all right um I guess the other question in the alleyway is the the the plan to to get the uh the garbage truck all the way to the to the back of the well that's apparently what happens now the the the vehicles would back down from Lorraine and come down here oops I'm sorry it's over here they would come down here and then they could these cans are all rollable um the the the cans for the uh residents are the large cans that you just you pull out and bring to the truck and then they take the the trash out of that but um what's in the shed in the in the enclosure that would be something you could pull out and then the truck could hook up to it as a matter of fact I think the the building next door I have seen the a dumpster along the side of the rear of the building here yeah especially yeah I'm looking at uh Google Maps and there's a small dumpster and that won't provide enough space I guess for well we'll have to work with the neighbor and you know I mean we have an easement to use it so I mean as long as he keeps it parallel and up against the building we can get by it okay all right thank you Mr Cruz thank you um I guess I just had a question about the the porest pavers um since you're trying to utilize infiltration and I do understand that doing recharge isn't a requirement um had you considered it all sumping the water instead of into the municipal drain into the porest pavement and allowing for it to just infiltrate that way well what goes into the poorest pavement will will infiltrate we're not going to put that into the municipal drainage no I meant the the building oh the sum pumps yeah you know the the the sum pump in the back those two little stairs it's so little B of water we could discharge that um maybe I'd put a what they call a ctech unit a little Galley underneath there to take that water it's not much water so I could see taking the the Run from those stairs and putting in a ctech or um that's just a brand a galley okay uh thank you Mr Moore will the residents have access to the easement area is that where they'll be putting their garbage or um is it right on the back side of the will they be taking a garbage to the back side of the building and that new my Envision is that the the residents will come out and use this for their garbage and they can put their recycling in the shed um we just don't have enough room to put all that there you know with six Apartments three cans will be enough because they're pretty big cans but can can you show me where the easeman is and eement this is the easement okay that 12T wide driveway well it's 12 and 1/2 ft WI wide and so um but the residents will come down the stairs in the back to throw out their garbage okay um so they're not walking uh in that easement area towards the what is that Lorraine are they walking in that area or no um they they could there's nothing to stop them I mean if if they throw their garbage out and then they're walking to the train station they might just do that rather than go through the restaurant because the restaurant will be you know closed in the mornings do you have lighting proposed yes for that well I I said that before yeah these are the isolux patterns here we have a light here and three lights on the building here and there'll be lights in the roof of the uh stairwell because there'll be there'll be lights there but but the outdoor lighting we have here so this is all well lit for people to walk yes my other questions have been answered okay thanks Mr Griffin Mr Griffin um do you answer mechanical questions or not well if if if I can I'll let you know okay uh the exhaust hood for the the exhaust for the stove hood on the roof just shows a round circle it's got to come up and goose neck down at the very least there needs to be more drawn on that so that everybody knows what we're talking about yes well the architect just just showed the shafts because we wanted to make sure we had the shafts but yes that'll all be detailed it's on the it's on the mechanical plants now and and it's typically how it's done where you have the return air and then you have a heat exchanger in there as well good so it's somewhat sizable and it requires access for repair correct yeah so it'd be good for the architect to draw it so that the uh preservation group can see it and everybody else can see it so that there aren't any surprises that's all um I see the fence in the back and I look I look at the plan I'm just looking at C11 and the lower right hand corner of the backyard there's a trash containers and appears to the chain link sense around the trash comp containers is that right oh that's his where's Mine mine's here what drawing do you have I mean number it is it it is a chain link fence well we we would have slats so it's up against an existing brick wall I so that's going to stay right and then uh to the right to the east I guess that would be is that a chain link vents facing the the drive um yes well and that line the property line there there's no demarcation between that's a driveway there right directly J on the other side yes there's a driveway there have you considered putting some kind of fence there somewhat other than a chain link fence we could we could put a a solid fence I think your restaurant tour would be very appreciative a solid vinyl type fence with the gate talk to your talk to your owner uh it says LS in a 3 foot wide piece of something from the property line moving in and I don't know what that is LS that that symbol is landscaping and then on the landscape plan we showed the Landscaping unless so there's it's a planter it's flat and there's dirt or what right no there's a curb on one side there's the edge of the the pavers on the other side so it's a flat it's a flat area that's open for planting 3 ft wide okay so that Landscaping that that LS whatever that is serves as your separation of the cars going by and these people dining correct okay um I have no other questions thank you just just a couple of things is the um trash collection going to be by a private hauler for both the restaurant which I assume and the residents yes okay um and when you're connecting to the storms in the road or you going to have to dig up a portion of Valley Road yes we have to go to the county for that yes okay so so in addition to you'll be replacing the sidewalk but you also have to repair the road whatever the county requires um okay are there any members of the public who have questions for this witness okay want to call your next witness uh Peter stack oh wait I I forgot one thing you're you're showing I don't have an issue with the arbor vary along the rear property line the the two Arbor VY you have three R to dendron and then two Arbor next to the building and they they seem to be rather big they're proposed the same size that seems to be a little big for next to the building and they're kind of overwhelmed the road to dendron I not sure why those are necessary um you're right I guess we were just trying to soften the the wall and if you just have the rooted not Ro the aelas they're only you know 30 in tall and then you got this big wall behind it but you know something growing 12 to 14 feet tall is a little I would seem little out of place and I'm worried that the the Zas are going to be no well it's it's it's over six feet wide so the the arbor only grows 2 feet wide okay but it but well I will argue based on what I've seen them that that um you come up with something that'll be tall but not that big the arting gets wide you just let it water it and let it grow and it will grow wider too it's not just one it is you know the emal greens are wide but the other the ones like to eat I don't think we're going to have a deer problem here they're nice and narrow the road ofine will grow big too I mean the ENT going be 6 or 8 ft high I'll agree you can get them somewhat cular but it's two even if they're managed to stay only 2 feet wide that's still going to take up a lot of the area and I think yeah yeah we I'll I'll challenge my landscape architect any members of the public who have questions when to call Mr St Peter St sir do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do would you please State your full name and business affiliation for the record uh Peter G St yes Teck uh ad Maplewood Avenue Maplewood New Jersey testifying as a planner Mr chair we accept Mr SE qualifications been here many times all right and it and it's still good this evening so far yeah all right Mr Ste you're familiar with the uh with the application that's before the board as well as the property that's involved yes all right you want to begin you know providing background regarding the these property itself and the surrounding area um yes I have a um handout that might be helpful that uh Works use of the thank you Mark this is A2 someday Peter we're going to bring you into the technological age he's getting I'm doing this for your convenience that you st close anyway um so to to lay some Foundation um uh this is uh the Saunders Hardware building it's a handsome building uh one story uh it its last day was uh June 16th 2024 um the applicant uh wants to uh convert the downstairs into a restaurant with 45 seats and wants to add two stories uh to the building uh a total of six dwelling units uh one of them being an affordable dwelling unit uh as you know the the affordable requirement kicks in uh once you have five dwelling units uh that if you had four dwelling units uh a Mount Laurel contribution is not required uh once you hit five uh you must have one uh low and moderate income unit uh so the applicant is proposing one of the units to be affordable and because there's one extra unit uh that'd be a cash uh contribution uh part of my analysis was to look at the surrounding area and I'm sure the board is very familiar with it but uh on the first page of my handout and did we mark it yes A2 okay so these are photographs from Google Earth Pro and on the upper half uh I have a kind of a regional view of where the property is with PQ and the upper Center portion uh and a uh more focused view on the lower section uh as you're familiar uh this is a uh Corridor commercial area focused on Valley Road uh buildings typically one to three stories although uh across the street there is a four-story building uh almost every building uh in this every commercial building in this area doesn't have uh on-site parking that complies with the code as if it were built new uh frankly the only building probably in that upper picture that has enough uh parking is uh Mr pellville building the so-called Keller William building that has 60 parking spaces uh for the a long time uh parking largely is either on Street metered or the Belleview Lorraine lot um which is uh behind the building or the Belleview lot uh which is uh on the other side of Valley uh on the second page uh you have pictures of uh the front and back of the building and uh again we're sandwiched between two one-story buildings and then those are framed by two three-story buildings and as indicated earlier on the lower so these photographs were taken by me on December 17th of last year and they uh depict the conditions as I saw them there uh part of my analysis was to uh look at the master plan and uh this is uh your your master plan has been updated to 2023 and I'll just invite you to flip to the fourth page of the A2 where I've clipped some sections of the master plan and I'll I'll return to this in a moment but I'll just give you a summary uh uh this is in a Upper Montclair Edge C4 District in the master plan um and it is described as a small scale but dense area as you can see in the upper leftand excerpt from uh the master plan uh it endorses is the current zoning which is up to 28 units an acre uh three stories are permitted um building coverage of 65% uh it's hard it um this lot because of its size would be permitted to have by right 2.9 dwelling units or just two dwelling units um I'll talk about this later but um in the disc discussion of density and that's one of the variances we need um the master plan says that uh it's reasonable to have bonus densities if you're doing certain things and one of those things is uh improving within the right of way uh one of them is to encourage affordable housing uh the master plan also spent a fair amount of time talking about parking uh it recognized that this uh upper Monclair district is within a five minute walk of the Montclair Upper Montclair train station uh it encouraged uh shared parking uh and it also said on the right hand side that uh Monclair should aim to provide a mix of housing types that work for smaller household sizes as well as for non-family households and and especially true when you're close to a u Transit Point like the train station uh this is in the NC Zone um which uh requires 4,000 square ft which we have at uh with existing buildings a 40t lot width which we have uh you want buildings to be up at the front property line uh you can be at the side property line uh there's a rear setback of 20 ft required uh we already uh are in violation of that uh by the shed that exists that's going to be reconstructed but uh the applicant is adding the stair Tower in the back and so that's going to be excluding the last few stairs uh 9.3 ft I believe from the rear property line so that's a dimensional variance that we need um there's a maximum impervious coverage that we exceed there's going to be no change to that except for the fact that functionally we are adding some Landscaping uh and we do have the uh perious pavers in the back so despite the fact that we're still covering the whole lot technically um there is more pervious um area than a currently exist this is approved uh the variance that brings us before this board is the D5 variance uh density variance uh we're permitted a maximum based on the size of the property and maximum of 28 units an acre 2.9 dwelling unit so you don't round up uh we permitted two dwelling units by right uh we are proposing four additional uh dwelling units um right now uh I think the best thing to do is to go to the third page of my exhibit and I have what I'll call Four development SC uh scenarios so uh to the left a uh is the existing condition uh this it was a retail use uh it could be reoccupied as a retail use use doesn't require any board approval any variances uh technically because of the square footage 1 per 200 we would be required 17 parking spaces however it's an existing condition uh again another retail uh could go in there uh with no change uh the second scenario is one that the applicant initially looked at uh the applicant is uh eager to convert this building uh as into a restaurant um there doesn't have to be uh to to do that you don't need two stories above it you can just convert it and uh this might not even require uh site plan approval uh but the answer is by having 45 seats one space per three seats um actually the required amount of parking would go down from 17 spaces to 15 spaces so these are those two scenarios are as of right scenarios we can just do it and and call it a day um without exceeding the density uh you could look at uh version C so we could add two stories on top of this because we conform to all the setbacks conformed to the height uh we could have one apartment on the second floor and one apartment on the third floor two rather large Apartments uh we wouldn't have to extend to the back because we could have an interior stairway for the U required second means of egress and uh that would be uh a permitted configuration except that because you would be expanding the building all of a sudden all the parking standards kick in now I would suggest to you it's kind of unreasonable to require parking for the first floor because it is what it is and in fact the parking demand technically is going down uh the reason uh the applicant would like more dwelling units is as you've heard over the last couple hours uh this building is being treated with kid gloves uh there's a lot that's going on to help preserve this building and the applicant has gone a long way uh agreeing what the suggestions were of the historic preservation commit uh commission uh that involves a lot of I'm trying to think of the word cost I mean this is this is a very expensive building because of the way it's being uh treated the other issue is um the town uh is interested at least from the planning department of having low and moderate income housing uh the chairman mentioned that apparently there was approval but if this there right now is no low and moderate income housing unit um in uh this Ward or the Upper Montclair uh area and uh the theory of the law is that uh you need it you don't you don't just come into the developer and say okay you want to build 12 units uh automatically uh you know 20% have to be low and moderate income the idea is there should be some incentive uh so that a developer has a reason uh to uh produce that low and moderate income unit that's why the applicant wants to do six units three per floor uh first of all if this were one unit per floor again we wouldn't exceed the density that'd be tremendous units whatever three or four bedroom units this is not a an area where you really want large families simply because there's not a lot of open space right here um the applicant wants to do six units all two-bedroom apartments one of them to be low and moderate income and the uh the applicant is Con is comfortable with the economics that make this work because as I've indicated this is a very expensive project because of the kid gloves approach uh to the building while it's true that this could be built with four units um from the applicant's point of view there's not an economic incentive to provide an affordable unit the applicant would like to do the six units wants to do one affordable and and pay the difference the fractional difference uh for the fifth units uh and again uh while as the applicant said you could certainly do this two units per floor and call it a day uh it wouldn't we wouldn't hit the five unit minimum to hit a Mount Laurel requirement uh but the applicant based on urging of the planning department wanted to produce a unit and this again may be one of the only units in the Upper Montclair area or one of only two units um let me go to my conclusions so the reason we're before you is because of a density variance this is a D5 variance it's it's not a so-called medich case because this Zone permits multif family but we have to address the problems that arise from those four extra dwelling units that that we exceed the density so what are the problems that arise from those four extra dwelling units um they uh we meet all the setbacks um except for the stair Tower in the rear um so it's not an issue of height or bulk of the of the building uh one could argue well it's a parking issue uh those extra units uh require parking and we don't have any parking on the site um that's the in my opinion the prime impact from the overage in density uh there are public benefits uh low and moderate income unit having smaller units in in a set setting that's appropriate uh the applicant as indicated uh has permits that he can allocate for uh daytime parking 10 permits he can allocate to this building and the applicant has another building in the area is indicated that has 60 parking spaces that is clearly not used on the weekend or in the evenings so from a functional point of view in my opinion the negative that arises from the extra four units is essentially a parking issue and I think the applicant has reasonably uh satisfy that so let me go back uh to the statutory criteria this is a so-called Coventry case that that controls this um in my opinion there are uh several purposes of the Miss Banus law that are Advanced and uh this is njsa 4 55 d-2 and I'm going to reference purposes a g i j and M A talks about promoting the general welfare and that clearly is uh the provision of a low and moderate income unit uh g talks about sufficient space in an appropriate location uh this is a mixed use area and there are relatively few buildings um that have mixed uses in this business area uh but it's a uh I think it's architecturally appropriate um and this is a good area for smaller Apartments purpose I talks about a desirable visual environment and purpose J talks about the cons conservation of historic sites uh clearly this building is not only being improved uh visually but it's being improved VIs usually uh in a historic district and there's been a lot of discussion about how the uh applicant has been very sensitive to that and has complied with the uh requests of the historic commission purpose M talks about lessening the cost of development and again rather than tearing down part of the building and putting parking in the back uh the applicant is doing what is the logical thing to do and again in a very sensitive way structurally putting this on top of the existing uh structure uh there's a lot of Steel involved here but the applicant wants to do the right thing the rear yard setback is a minor issue it's largely an open structure the it it it's not closer to the rear property line than the shed that's already there uh it clearly has a public purpose in terms of uh emergency access um and uh going back to the master plan um this in my opinion is not doesn't substantially impair of your master plan your master plan talks about uh the need to have shared parking it recognizes that that that's an efficient way to do things and again the applicant is intending to use public parking uh for the daytime and his Lorraine building for Saturdays um and and evenings um your master plan says you can exceed the density if you're accomplishing some public purposes uh here we are doing a substantial uh rework of the public RightWay uh but more importantly we're providing uh one of the few low and moderate income units uh in the upper m CL area um and your master plan says that smaller units are appropriate um in a setting like this that's close to mass transit uh so um I think that in my opinion the applicant has met the standards of the Coventry case addressing the problems that arise from the additional four units largely issues of parking and I I think we have a a sound solution U and again there's he the applicant has the only other property that really has enough parking it's it's the Lorraine building with 60 parking spaces every other building in this immediate area doesn't have virtually any on-site parking and frankly you don't want it if every building had code compliant on site parking you would have like a Route 22 buildings would be separated it would wouldn't be a walkable environment this frankly is what you want um so I think the applicant meets the Coventry standards I think the rear setback is a minor issue because it's only a small component of the building and it's largely an open structure um I think that is uh consistent with the master plan um and I think that um you you shouldn't be involved with costs but obviously the applicant has uh paid a lot of attention to the Aesthetics and the historic preservation of the existing building uh from his point of view uh he needs the six units to do that level of work and to provide a a low and moderate income unit and uh in my opinion if you approve this it can be approved without substantial detriment to the public good and without substantial impairment to the Zone plan and zoning okay no further questions Mr mccullock do you have any questions thank you Mrs St it's good to see you in the new year thank thank you um just a couple of questions for you since you know the focus is on density here um with your exhibit on page one um it it becomes fairly obvious to me that if we approve this project um this would become the tallest building on this on that side of the block would that be your assessment as well well it would read as a three-story building uh I didn't you know I don't know the exact linear footage of the other buildings but again it we're between one-story buildings that you know might would have the right to go potentially to three-story buildings and then that's framed by three story buildings one over one at lra and one in the other direction I would be uncomfortable with a four-story building here because it would stick out but the answer is if you look at the pattern of buildings in the area uh right across the street uh Mr Pavel did that building and that's a three story building the top story is masked by you know the roof surfaces right but this is not unusual and I think what is uh compensates for that is the level of detail of the window and the bricks I mean I think it'll look like it was always there is what I'm saying mhh okay yeah I mean I I notice that you know the the other two buildings in your in your uh uh Google Earth photo um the the second floors you know are they they are sort of halfway uh to the what is the current roof level of the Saunders building um so that's what you know when you're putting two more levels on top of obviously it becomes it looks now again uh because the parapets are involved I don't know exactly where so we're looking on the second page of my exhibit is the best best way to look at it and and you're right I don't know the linear height of the adjacent buildings uh this might be uh slightly taller of them and again because we're we're not taking off the roof of our existing building we're building on top of it so you may be right that it's slightly taller but in my opinion it's going to read as a three-story building and that's not unusual in the district okay so from your I mean your part of the assessment that you're bringing to us is that um this is a good project and it should be approved that it doesn't uh significantly increased density of this of this area I mean that's basically you read my mind okay so let me let me challenge you a little bit just in terms of of sort of stepping out of what is sort of the immediate or the specific project and taking more of a forward look okay which is to say that you have buildings on either side of this um that obviously are one-story buildings um and and if if the owners of those buildings decided that they also wanted to put apartment buildings uh two level apartment buildings on that on those buildings would your assessment of the density be the same or would it sort of be a more challenged well I think uh first of all this this is those other buildings seem to be less historic the way they've been treated so the question is are those owners willing to go up a little higher you know do the work that we're doing uh do those owners have a parking solution that we have and if they don't you know it's less of a strong application I I think there is a a constellation of features here that make this a comfortable approval I don't want to tell you that someone couldn't present a a building and one thing that's U concerning on on the the building to the east of us that three-story buildings has Windows on the side and they would lose their Windows the and that's why this applicant is looking ahead and and understands that that's a possibility again I think there's a constellation of features here um the architecture the amount of work that they're doing the fact that he's got you know what's the negative it's largely a parking issue he's got the answer okay yeah I mean the reason why I really sort of asked the the that sort of forward-looking question is is because um uh you know both in terms of the the the master plan but but also just in terms of the character you know of this neighborhood and and and and I'm sure I mean that you know we obviously have an investment uh both in terms of maintaining the master plan but then also or staying in in accord with it but also in terms of just maintaining the character yeah not not you know sort of venturing into um a development project that ultimately is going to lead to that character being changed dramatically potentially changed dramatically and that's that's sort of reason why I post I know that the master plan expressed a concern about tall buildings in the central business district that is clearly a a concern and they wanted to ratchet back um this is a comfortable scale here I again I would be a lot of people do like to do three stories stick over like a parking level and stuff a four-story building doesn't fit in here right the other the other question I have and this it's this my last question really and that is um you know this you know what's this project has been I mean the first floor the restaurant has been has been uh presented to us as a Michelin uh level uh facility uh and and uh we know what that is so um and and of course and and the intent is for it to be for evening dining so it's not a breakfast or a lunch necessarily kind of facility it's it's well I'm guessing it's lunch and dinner but um okay so the the question I would have is is um uh sometimes for for this level of restaurant um there is an expectation by the clientele to have certain privileges which may or may not work well in this area for example valet parking um so so if if um for this type of facility uh the the owner of this restaurant would want to have um the facility of valet parking such as which happens on Church Street for for example um how would that sort of change uh or would it change your sense of the issue or the question of density in terms of this particular location first of all obviously you can't condition approval on based on one type of restaurant or another I can tell you that that's the applicant's intent that's why he bought this building he's very much interested in it um to have Valley parking you have to have some place that you drive the car to um I can the bottom line is I don't think the applicant is anticipating that and the answer is the the the one good thing is at least on the weekends he does have a property with 60 parking spaces that's in convenient walking distance but that's not part of the application we're we're not anticipating um you know this is a walkable business district uh there is parking in the in uh very often in the evenings here so I don't anticipate the need for that okay good thank you Mr church I have no questions Mr corfield does Monclair have a Zone 4 Village in their Zone a yeah on your thing here you have like a Zone C4 Village that's not a Zone that's a master plan category okay but does Monclair have that in their c in there in their master plan yes they do this this but it's not a zone that we deal with right well the the master plan recommends use districts and and uh uh building format districts and so they labeled it a C4 District but that's transl it's implemented through the NC Zone how do we get here I mean the Zone was created because it saw you know it's saw a parking issue technically right in this whole thing the density aspect of it and 24 units whatever to towards Acres like how do we get here as like what are they trying to protect in that sense well um my my recollection uh is that the 28 unit an acre May reference another Zone like the R4 Zone and I I again I didn't study that but the answer is it is what it is and it it has as you know caused a lot of new development this this is this this District hasn't flowered as a mixed use District uh so I I I can't answer that but my recollection is that might reflect a density in a pure residential Zone like the R4 Zone but I have to look that up okay um the the the applicant has has talked not necessarily him has talked but you've talked about he's got a smatter of different paring schemes that he has um it's kind of hard you know being on this side to be rubber stamping on something that might be available on Saturday between 1 and two and you know not available during the weekdays or something that that that's kind of like it makes the water kind of murky well first of all while you might say you know the total parking requirement is uh what did I say 12 plus 15 yeah there's one small point I want to mention and it's just your ordinance says well first of all we're functionally talking about just the residential units because we you know we could go to a restaurant tomorrow and that's the end of it yeah absolutely what is uh the resident and in your ordinance says for residential units you look to the RSI as residential site Improvement standards the state law they amended the state law that said uh we're going to recommend a number of units and that's two parking spaces per two-bedroom apartment so technically for the six units we would need 12 parking spaces but they amended the law to say that's the maximum you can't require more than that and they also changed the law that says you don't need an exception to do less than that okay and that reflects a state policy that we shouldn't confin we we shouldn't regulate housing density necessarily based on a full complement of parking and that's not I mean because you reference the state law that's a theme Here the answer is the applicant has to address those six units he has 10 permits he's willing to commit to this building and frankly this is a little bit self- policing I don't think someone's going to rent a two-bedroom apartment here necessarily not first of all use both bedrooms but the answer is they're going to know what the parking situation is because there isn't a spot on this property the to me the comforting is this is an applicant that has a number of properties in town he's handled residential units before he knows how to manage them and he has the permits today and he has overflow within a block I I just feel just just a thing just a kind of like contract a little bit go back on that I think the reason why the zone is put together is is is is to avoid density Mr mullo has brought up the situation that if this building goes other buildings next to they might go there and there might be some things that stop them because they don't have the parking regiment like our client does but there will be a push for those other properties to be developed and stuff like that and then we have to get back to the beginning of all these conversations of what density is and can this area sustain density again I I think the the the protection here is that we're you're complying with the bulk standards except for that stair Tower in the rear this building is not too big no so again we could put in two dwelling units they'd be monster dwelling units and I don't think that's good for the area mhm yeah I agree it's got to be uh it's got to be a gentle mix yes in some way okay thank you um thank you Mr chairman um quick question you've mentioned the 10 permits uh for dat parking is that in the um where do that you know uh I it's in it's in the public Lots during the daytime and I'm I'm not it's not confined to aace it's just that the applicant because he owns I think this is his fourth property in town and some of them are dwelling units and some of them are uh you know offices and uh retail uses uh that he's held these perits for a long time and and I think it's it's either um it's I mean the convenient lots are the bellw with the bellw Lorraine Lots the public parking and then the I guess overnight parking and weekend parking that's in the other prop in the private property he can he can I mean you can get overnight parking permits also and there's you know they're vacant Lots in the public Lots overnight but he uh he has a special resource because he has this property with 60 spaces that's virtually not used in the weekend so why not do a shared parking parking approach as his theme okay all right thank you Mr Cruz um good evening uh is that section classified as a Transit Village well this is this would be a Transit Village uh but I don't think we have a formal State designation we haven't applied for that but this would be eligible as a Transit Village cuz we're actually you know that goes up to a half mile from a train station we're yeah certainly within within public transit meet this would meet the standards okay um and then you said that the uh the 60 lot parking is was with about a block away uh you could if you look at uh A2 the upper photo has a uh building in the lower left quadrant M it it there's it it references um no well it's it there's a a big parking area and a two-story building in the lower left hand quadrant and that's that's his building okay and that that's one of the few in the area that didn't require a parking variance right um and then also then uh with uh with your professional experience using the six uh Unit Model uh what kinds of people would you say would typically move into a um an apartment like that someone that loves be a being able to forget about their car every once in a while you can walk to Food Stores restaurants the train station um this is a nice area for someone that's not car oriented in my opinion um so so like you could see like a family moving into you know it it clearly doesn't lend you can't restrict you know someone that has you know there could be uh there could be a household with one individual and a child you can't restrict that but the applicant's experience in my recollection is it tends to be singles or small households again just because it's a two bedroom unit doesn't mean I mean you have a home office you have an exercise room you don't necessarily fill up both bedrooms right um and then you uh you mentioned that um so while whilst this is in the NC zoning area it's in the zone for uh in terms of like use from the master plan uh yes it's clearly a it's a mixed use area and the master plan encourages it to be a mixed use area Okay um and then just just uh could you just um repeat your argument again as to why you feel that the density uh variances is warranted so again the standard is the Coventry standard where we have to address what are the problems that arise from those extra four four dwelling units MH and it doesn't make this building any taller any wider it it fits within the Box except for the stair Tower in the back and the real land use impact is one of parking and I think we have the solution to that um and then you also mentioned earlier though that um uh to do it without the variant you would have to do the the one apartment on the second floor and one on on the third floor that well it would still require a variance because we're expanding the building so in theory all the parking kicks in even though you can't fit it on the property but we would be before the planning board then because we would comply with the density gotcha um um okay no more questions thank you Mr Moore are any of these apartments handicap accessible uh you have to ask the I know the I the the interior I believe the Interiors have to be uh I don't think this is required to have be an elevator building right I think that's four stories than it requires it's it's numbers of units and stories uh but that was a question that we faced early on right if someone's on a wheelchair and they were be is um not accessible to that degree but I think within the within the units they're all designed to be adaptable for handicapped individuals okay all my questions have been answered Mr Griffith I understand and appreciate your presentation I have no questions I have a couple cuz you'd be disappointed if I didn't you were going to ask me about the Michelin uh tire sales on the first floor retail uh the um um I guess you know one of your comments was it's not near Parks but this is a this same basic walk to the train station as to Anderson Park and it's this unit is much closer to Anderson Park than my house and a lot of other houses in my neighborhood are to Brookdale Parks I don't know if that's justification um you know the Curious Thing about first I just to um you know the ordinance it the 28 units per acre is for this Zone it's not a referencing another Zone yeah it's right it's it's right in the zone you're right okay and and then the ordinance in the zone makes a um distinction as to the height of the building where it allows three stories for mixed use buildings and residential buildings but limits um commercial buildings to two stories so is that a justification at least to get to the three stories is that is what the Zone specifically allows for this type of building well it specifically allows three stories for this proposal um then the the question and I think the affordable unit you know actually makes a better case for five units than the original what they originally submitted to the planning department and development Review Committee for four units which um but how do we get to the six unit I I don't think the contribution for the extra unit can does that what what is the justification for doing the I think it's efficient use of land it fits within the building you know again while the upper third floor the units are slightly larger um these are reasonable size units for an urbanized environment 700 to 800 square ft the answer is it fits within the building you know I I suppose you could Bine the two of of the units go down to five and have like a three-bedroom unit but but that's this is not an appropriate area for a large family in my opinion um the you know you you know normally um the cost for the applicant is not something we consider but um Is this different here where the applicant the the building is an historic district the applicant went to the historic preservation commission and they required a number of modifications um to the building which I'm sure increased the applicant's cost and you have the fact that in order to preserve the existing building that is certainly added to the applicants cost can that be a basis for our uh uh not so much the dollar amount but I think the Practical again the the I I think the applicant has gone above and beyond what a normal applicant would do in treating this building carefully you know he's structurally doing gymnastics um getting bricks from Virginia it seems to me that that because the promotion of Aesthetics and especially Aesthetics a historic district that's a public purpose okay so um then my my issue on the parking and you know we had another application recently and you know I think you would con seeed that what the restaurant becomes we're approving a restaurant and whether it's open 247 only evenings 3 days a week we have no control over that and article we could but I don't think we want to have any control over type of restaurant hours of operation so the the issue on the parking then is and we had another applicant that was where there was a restaurant on the property and the applicant said I will just be open evening so some parking concerns we had and within a month of opening it started serving brunch on weekends which was one of our parking day issues we won't mention who or why but anyway um you know but I'm I'm assuming that overtime this will be open you know Saturday days and um parking is full in Upper Monclair Center on Saturday days my only response is that and and the focus of this I think the applicant's original purchase was was the restaurant the answer is the a 45 seat restaurant could go in tomorrow with just building permits and and actually the parking demand would go down from 17 to 15 spaces so what I'm suggesting is that while there are certainly concerns let me do my concern I I understand the restaurant you know it's they you know can be there and we're going a lot of people went to Saunders Hardware on Saturdays during the day no question um the the issue is the likelihood is um the resident of the apartment and all agree they're not going to have two cars each and but many of them are going to at least have one car and they're going to be home Saturday's day because they can walk to shopping walk to that restaurant or another restaurant go to the grocery store go to a bank you know everything you can do in Upper Monclair um you know it's a um and I'm going to get to my questions on the permit spaces it's it's the the question I have is at some point you know and we reached this point in downtown Montclair before the parking decks were built there's just was too much going on and there just wasn't parking and people weren't coming because they couldn't find parking spaces and when do we know when we reach that point um that's a global issue that uh your planning board ought to address but this is a situation where this applicant is somewhat unique and that within I guess 300 ft he has a building with 60 parking spaces that are just not used during the weekend okay but the um or in the evening okay let me first and I don't know if Mr tulac you know the 10 permit spaces which do you know which lot they're located in there there the the permit allows parking in the what they call the U parking lots which is the it's it's allowed in all all three lots the three here that there's actually five but the three relevant ones are bellw Avenue the Belleville arain lot and then the Upper Montclair Plaza lot yeah where the movie theater okay um the um okay um because I um H how would people know I I'm going to do a condition that those permits go to Residents or employee and if the residents don't need all 10 permits that they go to employees or the owner of the restaurant um but the question is the I think the issue is customers of the restaurant how are they going to know that they can park in the building that's caddy corner across it that's not for them I mean there there could be an informal way of doing it but uh you know they're going to be like any business in the in the neighborhood commercial area they they have to you know we don't know how many customers they're they're going to be here uh but that again that that's kind of the the as of right part of this application I I could put saying they're available people have to know they can that they are entitled to use it cuz normally I see a parking lot on a private business I don't go and park there right no that that's a that's a I think a management issue with uh how the applicant wants to run and manage the restaurant but I don't think it's and it's certainly helpful but I don't think it's a land use issue because it's it's really not a requirement again the the restaurant is a well we had all this you know testimony is all this and you had testimony there are these spaces over there again the the focus is the the is the added burden is from the six residential units because the applicant can tomorrow put in the restaurant or a tire store on the first floor just needs building permits the the the focus of the of the density variance is not the commercial use the restaurant the focus of the density variant is the dwelling units that's why it's a d variance okay but I agree with you wearing some I otherwise wear my life but you know I think the issue and well I agree ultimately it's for the governing body and the planning board to address I think we can't put on blinders and ignore there's a significant parking deficiency I'm sure the well I'm not sure I I believe that the applicant wants to make its restaurant customers happy and if that means to make sure they were aware that there is parking at his Lorraine building he can do that that that's in his own best interest to do that can we require that he you know I mean I'm assuming you know if it's a quality restaurant people will not be eating there just once and never coming back okay I'm is that something the board can appropriately do would you ask that again can we say that they have a notice that parking is available at whatever the address is on line and you know I don't know well the answer is I I'm sure that the app well I don't I can't speak for the applicant I believe the applicant would be willing to do that because it's his own best interest I'm not sure it's appropriate to be part of a resolution well but we've imposed conditions saying and we're going to impose here that parking permits be available with you know sometimes it's employees sometimes it's residents and we've done that any number of times and that's that's reasonable to me because that focuses on the new construction and and and and and again if if if they don't need the 10 permits for the residential units it makes perfect sense that employees get some of the 10 okay any other questions from members of the board just a quick question I mean I for the restaurant like I know it's not part of the deal but if they do become like selling retail stuff out of that that that would be something that we like you know it's not going to happen but just in the general well it would be a different well we're we're proposing a sit down Restaurant period any other question members of the board any members of the public who have any questions for this witness any testimony about the application anything you want to say about the application okay Mr Trac you want to sum up yeah I'm going to try to you I'm going to be brief given given the hour and the fact that you've heard all the you know arguments and support of the variances from Mr St and I don't want to repeat them all but just with respect to the parking our Our intention as Mr SE indicated was to provide parking for the tenants uh and we're doing that with the permit uh parking spaces that cover daytime and Our intention was to uh for Mr Pavel to allow the residential tenants to park nights and weekends uh at the Keller Williams building 237 Lorraine um but I just talked to Mr Pavel he has no problem allowing the um 237 Lorrain parking to be utilized you know for people going to the restaurant um we he would certainly make that available and certainly the restaurant tour would I'm sure readily uh be happy to inform customers that there is available parking in that lot so that would be made available so you know I think you know we we've covered the additional parking demand um that we're creating by adding the six Apartments to this building and I think that you know we're obligated to do that I think we have done it I think you know it's Unique that this applicant is is able to satisfy that parking demand uh for those additional units um and certainly the conditions that you're suggesting Mr chairman regarding parking are are are more than acceptable I I mean you know the the density variance again I don't want to repeat everything that Mr St just said but you know we're allowed you know the use that we're proposing mixed use permitted um if if not desirable in a business district but it's a permitted use the height permitted the number of stories permitted we meet all the bulk requirements except for the rear staircase so you can you know we can have this building there um with three stories and two floors with four units or six units um what's what's the difference um between four and six the bulk you know the building is still going to be the same is it better to have larger apartments in this area I think it's better to have smaller apartments and um you know you're not you we're talking 700 800 square foot uh Apartments as you already indicated not unlikely that tenants are going to have uh more than one car but you're not going to have families there um and you're going to have smaller units and and Mr St has pointed out you know in the master plan um there's recommendations that monair provide a mix of appropriate household topologies to meet changing and aging demographics Monclair should aim to provide a mix of housing types that work for smaller household sizes as well as for non-family households have lower square footages and are accessible for seniors and special needs uh residents um smaller is better here um the only negative thing about additional density as Mr St pointed out is that it typically would mean more of a parking demand but that's not the case here given the location um and um um I lost my train of thought but um you know and and and and we have the parking we have enough parking um and you know it's already been pointed out I mean this I think is is a beautifully designed building substantial improvements and the applicants going to you know a very long way at significant cost I know the cost isn't important but it's the preservation of the historic building and meeting all of the HB HPC requirements you know that creates an a need to have uh some additional revenue from this project um um I I don't think anyone can argue with how beautiful this building looks substantial improvements maintaining you know preserving the historic building also adding improving the front of the building you know the the public sidewalk additional trees the rear uh substantial improve Improvement um you know all of those things when you take everything into account obviously the provision of the affordable housing unit is I think a a big public benefit and all of those things taken together I I think justify you know granting the density variance for this location for this unique property um as well as the other variances which we've requested so thank the board for its time and consideration start with Mr mullik yeah I'm I'm in favor of this project Mr Church yeah I am also in favor Mr cawfield um I I'm still um like making some making I'm still undecided in the sense of like you know if you look through the Zone this um this density thing it's you know it's made for properties that are 200x 200 for the 24 acres and stuff like that and that that it's written in such a way that it it looks to the fact of like wanting to discriminate against these types of things um I I could say I could see myself saying yes let's do this and then one Saturday coming can't find any parking I get to see that happening as well um I do see the benefits there is benefits as Mr St said there are benefits here um and so I'm on the fence I'll wait and see okay Mr Vieira I'm in favor of this project Mr Cruz I'm also a little bit similar on the fence um I I do think the parking is an issue now although I do think at a later point in time there may be some remedies to parking I think this is a very very well prepared presentation and I think this is one of the few cases in which I mean with all the adherence to the Post toric preservation with staying within the height staying within the bulk you know this could be an example of what it looks like to get a more dense building you know adhering to these uh these rules um and I'm also trying to think about in terms of like the two-bedroom apartments you know the types of people that would be going to two-bedroom apartmentment whether it's like a you know a single parent with kids or maybe like two working professionals or like an uh like a married couple with no kids but I think anybody with like two kids or more probably wouldn't be living in a two-bedroom apartment maybe in a three-bedroom apartment but not two so um but I think with all the pros and cons and everything like that if if the applicant is asking for six and with everything he's adhering to then then I would be in favor of it Mr Moore I'm in favor of the application I think that uh this particular um application has a it has a it fills a need where you have parking and um so the the residents would have a place uh to park and not all of our um residential uh owners are able to provide that in a city like Montclair where that's it's very limited I also think that um you know it's great use of satisfying our um land use uh recommendation of providing more affordable housing um it's very clear that this is in a Transit oriented environment so um residents it it gives an opportunity for residents to take the train to work and they may work in New York or somewhere in New Jersey a long rail um it satisfies a lot because we have mon Clair has a lot of houses um and so um to the point of providing more homes uh with a smaller footprint this satisfies that and I think that it is is a great way to preserve um the historic charm that it has and uh I'm in favor of the application I think you did a wonderful job with incorporating um low and moderate income Mr Griffith um I'm in favor as presented um I would like to say that I like the number of units and the small units because it encourages uh it enables people with lower income and smaller groups and a broader range of age group in the in the area which is uh would help the area I think um I am I am uh generally happy to not have any parking for anybody and encourage them to use the mass transit that is directly available right across the street and right here that's what things like uh leadership and energy and environmental design encourage with points and performance points I think it's a good thing and I do think that the municipal end use encourages sustainability so there's a little bit of a conflict in a rub there between their requiring parking and not requiring parking and I support not having parking if we do have parking that's going to get required I would feel much more comfortable if it was only assigned to the residential units and not to to the restaurant okay um I'm in favor to so no one panics um the um let me do a couple of things I think um you know as I indicated in my question Mr St I think it's um providing the fifth unit is certainly creates a situation um that is better than if there were four units having an affordable unit I think one of the things that this town has struggled with is to have affordable housing spread throughout the town and you know the unit we approved previously I suspect is not going to be built um that project if it was going to happen I'd be very surprised if it came back to life um but who knows it's all Al in the upper monair business district um you know but hopefully this will go forward the sixth unit I think is a little you know I don't think that can be is affordable housing can't be the basis for that but I think um the you know and you know going somewhat beyond what confort Tre Square requires but I think it can still be a basis for approving the variance is the fact that historic preservation which is one of the purposes of the municipal land use law um you know the U you know facilit you know having development near a train station um is important I um struggle um with the 28 units per acre as to as Mr Coffield said it's it's one thing when you're talking about a big parcel but there are not a lot of big Parcels in the neighborhood commercial Zone and you get some weird results I'm not quite sure what the solution to that is cuz not sure I want to if someone magically assembled the large parcel you know the Bank of America building that's probably the easiest example of a parcel that's sitting there that not sure I would want more than 28 units per acre there but it does lead to uh this board contrary to how I voted uh denied a similar application in Wang Plaza because it exceeded the 28 units per acre many years ago which I struggled with that denial but a majority of the board felt the ordinance says this and we should follow what the ordinance says and wasn't enough justification to Grant the variance but here you know and and of you know there were no it was an no affordable units for that and there was no historic preservation issues for that so I think this makes this very different from that decision um you know I you know the the presence of the two three-story buildings one building away on either side I think you know helps justify show it's not going to be a substantial impairment to the Zone plan the zoning allows the three stories it allows the 36 ft which the building can forms too so you know as I said it it's consistent with his own plan now he not sub impair it's certainly not going to um be a substantial detriment to the public good I think providing the affordable housing and providing additional housing near the train stations are are both positives to the public good um let me um go through conditions and I first you know that the 10 permit spaces for the upper Monclair be made available to the residents I understand what you're saying about the but on the other hand I'm concerned he's sitting there with 10 unused permits and given the pity of parking INB Clair I'd rather they be used than sit there of course the other thing is we say and so I I think I think um if there any unused I think they should go to either the owner if you know or employees but in the event new tenants move in and they need the parking permits that they should then be removed from the employees um that the building be the two upper floors be set back three F feet from the front facade as was indicated that the applicant adhered to the architectural plans that were last revised on December 23rd 2024 um unless for any reason they were inconsistent with what's in the HBC memo dated December 20th 2024 the testimony was they're consistent I did not want to go through each and every comment and verify exact consist consistency but you know the testimony was they intended to adhere to those and um um that the affordable unit conformed to the ordinance I don't think that's an issue because all the units seem to be comparable but if for some reason when they're doing the actual fit out of the units there's some distinction among them it has to be comparable to most of the units um that um then I need some guidance on the is that the roof be of the rear exterior stairs be extended over the full stairs I don't know how far you want to go down with side protection or just leave it that the roof covers it and okay um that the rooftop equipment be tested after installation to confirm that there it conforms to the noise ordinance um that uh oosha rules be adhere to in terms of railing or powerit on the rooftop a parit would be visually preferable but not going to mandate that um the street trees that the applicant consult with an arborist the township arborist as to the condition of the existing Street tree uh if it's in good condition it stays if it's not in good condition um it be replaced by two flowering trees comparable to what was there unless the existing tree is a calorie pair which you are not going to put in more calorie pairs um the um that um to some extent this is going to be redundant where I'm get to that um the sidewalk be in front of the building be replaced and any um that the applicant adhered to the re requirements of Essex County and both as to that and any road repair that will have to be done um for the installation of Utilities in the storm water um that the lighting and the rear conformed to the ordinance that um the Bold comments in the engineers review letter of January 11th 2025 the following comments be adhered to 5.10 6.1 6.2 6.7 6.8 6.12 6.14 6.16 and 8.1 um that a private huler be responsible for um the garbage from both the commercial use and the residential uses and the and last the trash enclosure for the residential use conform to the ordinance anyone else anything further I make a motion oh go ahead commissioner Griffin um I'd like to see two means of erress from the basement and uh the mechanical systems I'd like to see a accurate representation of what the mechanical duct work looks like at the top of the building and I'd like to see where the air intake and exhaust is on the facade uh I think this is all for the historic commission to see but it shouldn't be a secret okay I'll put that in a slightly better worded condition that the applicant uh present the final drawings including complete drawings of the mechanical equipment on the roof and the parit Andor railing that is installed so to the historic preservation commission for their review okay anything further okay I I make a motion to approve the conditions stated by the chair is there a second second any discussion and Mr Cruz you're the low man on the totem poll tonight so I guess call the role just for safety sake uh chair Harrison yes Vice chair Mulla yes Mr Coffield yes Mr Church yes Mr Mo yes Mr Vieira yes Mr Griffith yes all right go Peter I've never seen you in one room for this many hours without having to deal with another hearing okay is there a motion uh just for the board knowledge we we're almost there with getting rid of our backlog is uh good news and I'm hoping by April we'll be down to once a month and that'll be good okay is there a motion to adjourn so move second all in favor say I I thank you