##VIDEO ID:lMJSxC_UhOM## of meetings of the B Council of the B Mor PL for the year 2023 this resolution was adopted by the Bal Council on January 5th 2023 and published in the Morris newsby and Daily Record and by the posting of such resolution on the bulleon board in the Burl Hall all the above actions being appointed with njsa 10 4-6 set roll call please mayor pres Mr Mr Mr yes so uh tonight at our conference session we're going to be talking about um proposed permitted uses in non-residential zones at Morris Plains um this is not a master plan Amendment or reexamination but a recommendation that's already in the master plan this is mayor and Count Council ordinance the planning board will make sure this ordinance is not inconsistent with the master plan this a council discussion and public comment on ordinance can be heard at the second reading of the ordinance I'd like to thank members of the master plan committee chaired by uh Frank dretler Frank if you'd like to introduce the members of your committee here tonight the members of the committee are Ron Kelly Sue mclusky and S Cortez and also we have our planner Liz langy here with us tonight and our engineer Leon Hall um maybe we'll start off with you Liz if you want to give an overview yes can you hear can you hear me yeah can everyone hear me okay so I just I actually before I get into while here I want to um admit that I screwed something up and I'm gonna pass out a corrected page um there was a typo that had Warehouse as a per in the B2 Zone that was not supposed to be there so um if you could pass out this corrected and it's pretty clear it's it shouldn't be a permitted use there um but the the reason that we are here is because the master plan re-examination in 2018 uh partly you know the planning board at the time was concerned about the impacts that e-commerce was having on the on the buroughs commercial areas uh and also I think out of the public Outreach process we had a a public meeting that the you know the uses in the non-residential zones people didn't think that they there was enough they wanted more variety in the downtown areas they wanted different types of uses um and there was a recommendation to look at all of the non-residential zones and the non-residential uses and see if there was any way we could recommend New Uses or update what the was in the um existing ordinance to make Morris planes more attractive to potential users potential tenants to come in so in starting to do that what we found was that there were a lot of uses that were not defined in the ordinance and U but are permitted and typically in a zoning ordinance you want to have what what are the permitted uses you want to have definitions for them so it's clear what is being permitted um there were other uh def there were things that were there was a definition for them but they weren't permitted anywhere um and so it was sort of like what's what's the definition doing here uh and then there were some other uses like for example that were just obsolete or out of date meaning like there's a stenographer Services um there's printing establishments um computer processing uh Billiards you know and they were things that we thought well okay people still play Billiards but maybe we could Encompass this all into a definition which we have in this draft of indoor commercial recreation so that includes Billiards includes bowling but it also includes climbing gyms it includes indoor soccer um bat and cages that sort of thing so it was sort of a more Modern Way of of uh permitting that use um we also you know broke out some uses um into a little bit more fine-tuned so there was a use for health clubs and ret clubs or whatever and we split it up into there being health clubs and then we have instructional schools which could include music schools but it also includes yoga studios Pilates dance studios um essentially you know trying to get out what might be what people might want to see in the burrow and also in some instances what exists in the world and um you know and actually putting it on the list of permitted uses uh so another one is restaurants you know that that was something that we thought needed to be teased out a little bit because you know you have a what we think of as a restaurant perhaps where you're go and sit down but then there's drive-thru restaurant there are um what else did we have we have places you know like a bakery where you might go in and you might actually have whatever you buy you might sit there it's not quite a restaurant sort of its own little category um so we tried to tease those things out we also did the same with senior housing you know it's we have different uh types of senior housing that would be permitted in addition to Assisted Living including Independent Living um you know nursing homes uh continuing care communities um there was also some uses that were totally new and um I actually give credit to council person verga for coming up with a lot of these but there was you know for example pop-up retail you know that something might uh tenant a downtown space that's vacant for a short period of time you know at the holidays or Halloween or or whatever but that that could be um a potential use uh we had already added micro breweries last year you know that the the council did but we have distilleries and I know counc B told me about even two more uses yesterday um having to do with wine and some um we had viran care you know that's something that obviously there's one going up at the uh barcliff Commons shopping center um but that is a relatively new use even though they they are proliferating every um co-working spaces you know not um that that be something that would be particularly in light of the pandemic that it be um permitted use if some people who are working from home don't want to be working from home but don't want to be in New York City at an office you know they want to be outside of their their um their house but not too far away that that might be a potential um and there there were some other uses like gas station with convenience that's something that was added it's only permitted in one area which is at Route 10 and um and Johnson Road but you get a sense of what we were trying to do and trying to sort of broaden the uses and uh in a sense make moris planes more open to different types of businesses and different types of retail talents just let me add keep short though that U this this is a huge undertaking by by the burrow one that hasn't been done in over 20 years probably and we looking at every non-residential Zone um this has been over a year uh while this working group's been working over a year on it and this is still a working an in progress a working document this is uh this will go back to we'll get recommendations from from the planning board the council have some questions here tonight I'm sure the planning board will maybe some other recommendations so this is uh again a huge document uh something that we everybody here will be working hard on and uh we're all here to better the bur with all these uses so that's the ultimate goal here U Frank is Mayor I would have to say that other than some spots in the burrow uh it's been probably a long longer than that that anyone's ever gone over the non-uses nonresidential uses and this was a request to the planning board from the council to go through them um I don't think the members the six members thought this was as big a project as it's turned out to be uh because there was a lot of internal debate uh sometimes we came with a we left and we had an idea and when we came back we didn't like the idea uh so there's a lot of and this was the process really uh when we distributed these documents to the rest of the planning board and uh the council in November uh the idea was to have a discussion to see what other people thought uh so it wasn't just the six of us determining those things um uh so but during the process that we looked at this and Liz alluded to it um we did we did tell ask the governing body to uh do an outdoor dining ordinance to recommend the the change of the uh ordinance to allow micro breweries and I think the be uh a one and four Zone and also out on Route 10 and so we had to change uh we the B1 Zone over at Styles and Hanover to B5 there's only two buildings there and we did not think that uh allowing a micro Brewery uh there amongst the people now you got to remember uh especially downtown all zones are are bordered by residents and and uh uh there's always conflict between residential and Commercial so planning boards have to be uh very uh judicious in trying to ease that conflict uh or make sure that the residents uh uh are looked out for that's the goal here so uh we spent a lot of time on definitions a lot a lot of time other different definitions here um and then we went into the bulk standards the distances and on also parking recommendations and uh so uh this is the goal tonight to listen to uh any ideas uh that the uh or or suggestions or comments from the uh from the council and then when we have our next planning Bo meeting we'll listen to uh the rest of the planning board uh we asked them in January and they didn't feel that they were prepared to have that discussion so uh and we didn't have a February meeting so we'll be doing it in March so that's about uh where we are I mean Ron or sue you have anything to add or S no we're right there good um I'll start off with questions from the council s working on this document I you've been very close to this document but do you have any comments or suggestions it was amazing how when you really look in detail to to to see what we had we ended up with and uh I guess you know more planes involved there's a lot of uses a lot of stuff came out um very little you know some some went in but just a little bit of tweaking to adapt to you know 2023 um it was a lot of work and I I agree with Frank about sometimes we left there we thought we're do something and uh and we did something else and like just I remember just bringing up the change like that quick check area to make that its own area because it's not really uh like the rest of the Zone it's very unique to have like a brewery there but where where we do allow the breweries it's it's okay I'm about 10 areas or other areas so um it was a lot of work I I I thank everyone Leon Liz everyone working together we we had some times where we weren't 100% sure relied a lot on the professionals and uh we did the best we could and uh that's about it this the final product and uh yeah that's all I have to say may I just want I I I forgot two things U one the the zone out on the uh on the highway is the scene one zone U and well nobody remembers the old bowling alley but that's where was is in other words between Harrison Headley and those block of stores that's where that's going we also um the the council uh uh had uh met with wer and they uh have suggested and we we looked at it and felt it was a good thing and recommended approval of an overlay Zone at the corner of Johnson Road and Route 10 on the wer property which is the building on the corner and that big building on 202 and as uh there is also uh alluded to we've done a lot of work on our shopping center and one of those requests was an urg Care Facility so that's what's going up there um City MD and there's a supposed facility also in in the C1 zone so sorry thank you Mar you know I'm happy to see the uh work that was done in terms of updating our verbage um you know it's over 20 years it's a long time and things change as you as everyone knows so I do appreciate that that's that is a lot of big undertaking to just buy to sift through the data that was in there um I did like you know the P one I I appreciate I don't live there but I do appreciate I used to live on M way so I did back up to uh the bank and it wasn't very loud but I appreciate the concerns that you mentioned that it's a sensitive area to be putting different types of business there but um being that Collins and Arthurs were there forever you know I think the breweries were a good idea because it's a limited hours um so it might be not as effect hopefully not affect the residents but I think it' be more of a positive so I do appreciate all that you guys have done to concern citizens uh you know living standards and then to bring down possibly newer exciting businesses hopefully bring more people in I I don't really have any questions but do you have any other recommendations with this document at all I mean it's pretty thorough so like I said I'm not as smart as Leon Liz but I don't have any other recommendations at this point questions Yeah question ideas does does the document allow for two primary uses in the same space or how would that work if somebody like a coffee a coffee book shop or coffee record store yeah so it's a good question and I know you and I talked about it and I tryed to find examples like somebody else that's the first thing I always do well had someone else do it and I think what may be the best way actually is and I think with this language does exist in the ordinance which is any anything that's customarily incidental and accessory because I think and that instance let's say a bookstore that also serves coffee it's probably primarily a bookstore or primarily you know and that you could say well that they're they sort of are customarily accessory to one another or that sort of thing I think you know I think that that's the way it could be permitted or having I know we talked about um let's say that you wanted a not I don't want to use the word performance space but let's say you you wanted to have somebody who comes in and plays music in a in a cafe or in a restaurant you know if there was um you know again that could be something that maybe would be considered customarily right what about something like Chelsea Marcus or like Italy where you have one space but it's divided up into separate like retailers so there's nothing in the ordinance now actually that prohibits multiple principle uses okay yeah that's great um so there's a lot of examples of uses that were not proposed in the highway zones like the C1 the OB um even the l153 ex sort of um examples include like nursing homes um Retail Nursery vocational schools and others so maybe it has to do with the bul singers I don't know if that's a leon question or if that's for the committee but I just um a question like why were those things not included in some of those those locations in terms of nursing homes I don't know if we gave any thought to that along rout um and I'll be honest with you I'm not sure if it's really appropriate for Comm a long time what your thoughts on that I think we did consider it and we decided not to and I'm trying to remember exactly what our rash now was but it was it was considered and we decided against it um I don't know can any I'm just not remembering all right um all right so and then um so limited limited manufacturing so this is kind of question like we're adding a lot of uses that we didn't currently we don't currently have as permitted some of the newer ones that you mentioned but something like limited manufacturing that you know I think there a lot of people don't think should be near residential it's already permitted in those zones so that's not I know you and I discuss this but that's something that is not easy to remove from from those well it's permitted in two zones right it's permitted in the L1 which is you know for anybody who doesn't know is on Taber road across from the affordable you know the Eminem we call it the Eminem development but the big development on the west um and then it's also permitted in the the I Zone which is on the American Road and I think when we were doing this document the L1 Zone had received an approval which in their approval they were allowed to do limited manufacturing and we didn't touch it because we didn't want to mess we didn't want to inadvertently create a lawsuit you know but that's changed um and you know it has a different um approval on it right now but I think with the eyesone and really this is in some regards a policy decision for the council is that you you do have some existing Manufacturing the eyes Zone um and whether you want to continue to promote it or you know permit it which would in a sense promote it um or that's something you would like to change so that's something the council can discuss yes um we talked about micro breweries but I didn't see it in the B4 which is another part of downtown I guess this can you define that goes from the gas station to yeah okay so let me I because I went specifically so essentially you know you just so for everybody's benefit you got the B1 which is really right across from the train station and those are the sort of buildings you know that have they're very close to the um the street line and they're very close to one another and in some instances there's absolutely no setback between them um and then you have the B2 which is sort of down like the Acme property the gas station across from it Terrace the laundromat the former Friendly's property those are all in the B2 and everything else between that B1 and that B2 is in the B4 and um essentially so I was looking just now so you have a lot of actually government or or buildings you you have the municipal building you have the post office you have the school um you also have the Pres not that the Presbyterian Church is a a government building but it it you know you have a a nonr a non-commercial use um and then you also have Chase investor Bank TV bank got some Law Offices CPA you have the funeral home and so I was going through the old Master plans sort of understanding what what is this song you know and and I understand that it was created in the 80s and one of the reasons they it it offers a lot of it permits a lot of office and non in commercial uses but no retail and no restaurants and primarily the exam the reasons given at the time were that the Lots were small and there was a concern that you wouldn't be able to accommodate uh Reta um you know like a retail and a restaurant use and and off street parking so you know then the other thing was that they were close to Residents and there was a concern that those types of uses would potentially adversely impact the nearby residents and then I think the third thing was you do have along there particularly on the West Side speed well uh buildings that were at one time single family residents or you know were were used primarily for residential which have been converted uh in some cases to offices or you know professional office and I think that that was considered less um impactful I don't you know there would be fewer adverse impacts on Neighbors from those types of office us just like like law office or you know CPA um but it was also a way to maintain those buildings as as residents you know that they wouldn't be well sorry in their residential conf you know uh setting setting thank you you know that they would look residential they wouldn't be torn down and and redeveloped if if I could just talk about the B4 Zone uh I uh I just became mayor and uh there was a proposal at danglers where dangler is today to have a strip mall and the people were not in favor of a strip mall okay uh and it was in the B1 Zone and uh I spoke to the planner at that time Mr ogrady and uh I said uh Bob I said uh how about a study of speed will Avenue and I'm just going to read a sentence or two of what he said on speed whe avue you found the here are three somewhat distinct areas in that length of the Avenue the Northern Area is the older established shopping area intense commercial development predominantly retail stores and shops the southerly end that of strip has larger larger Lots again retail use area in between is a mixture of uses public semi-public church municipal offices few retail offices Mr orady suggested an office business Zone and that's what the governing body did at that time because it definitely Bel look it's those buildings are all abutted and a lot of them in that middle section were houses and uh which lo and behold the strip mall all disappeared and everybody was happy at that time and I think they're still happy but when danglers came in there was some people that weren't so happy but uh they are they are that's part of a community just like you need a police department a post office you're going to die someday you know so I think that's that's the story uh of that I and today if you look there I mean it's been redeveloped a few spots still has the residence there and I would say to you every time there is a proposal along that Avenue there is always citizens come out and are very concerned because they don't want something negative to be done so I I think it's pretty good and I'm just going to throw something out uh you know it's good I guess in a way to identify everything but I'm not so sure about that because if you don't identify something that means they have to get go before the board of adjustment and get a variance and it's a lot harder to get approval before the board of adjustment that it is get approval before the planning board so sometimes you want to make a TP that's my two cents anyway so m in the I mean I I think we were in keeping with retail and restaurants aren't currently permitted I mean if that's something again you know you guys adopt the zoning and if that's something that you would want in the B4 there certainly you could put you know you could put it in or or discuss it as as a counil um yeah the other the were similar to The Brewery Distillery the wineries ceries meeries those are the that's kind of like similar uses that could probably stick them all in the same another use that I saw that I don't know if it's new but research design and Testing Laboratories I don't think it's new I think we had we've always had it but um it looks like it's allowed in the V2 and I just I need to little understand a little bit more about that like what would be an example of that Does it include chemicals or other like biologic substances or anything like that research design laboratory I know I know what it is I'm just trying to understand remember why it would have been establishment engaged in industrial or scientific research and product design administrative services um you know what's the question I'm just B2 L1 L2 and Industrial and the I right it doesn't I wondering why that was in the B2 I think uh initially the direction we had gotten I thought from the council was to sort of make the B2 the most permissive in some ways um and that may be a hold over I I don't unless the commit de strongly I don't necessarily think it would be a bad thing to take it out of the de but was there a reason for that do you remember I know I don't remember and I don't particularly care for it myself yeah I I there was a big push to put everything in yeah we want to try to welc right but but I think that is probably more appropriate in those other zones where it's currently permitted which is the L1 the L2 so restaurants and restaurants bars and taverns are not in um are not in certain zones like we can expand the L1 and the L2 and the OB it's restricting that I guess is a little more challenging to take away a use but especially was it the C1 restaurant bars and taverns just tell us what page you on I'm on page eight P eight yeah C1 and OB are not that those weren't permitted restaurant bar in the C1 and the OB because there are restur currently in the C1 so it should prob already multiple restaurants so why don't you just touch on that there a little bit uh uses that are already permitted I know you kind of touched on it a little bit so does this include um uses that are already permitted that that are still I'll say modern yes yes it should I mean it should are you if it's not in there it should be permitted in the C1 absolutely maybe because this one this particular one includes alcohol is that why okay no it should be that's good where is that one uh page restaurant bar or Tavern right B1 B2 B3 B4 yeah I don't know about the OB what's what do we know what the current OB is it the Harley and the gas station three no that's strip mall there and there are restaurants in that St but that application got a use VAR for the har Davidson and for the strip Mo because some of those uses Ines so also you havea sweets hotel which is also in that and the sesta Suites obviously doesn't have Route 10 Frontage so it may make sense something we can talk about a little bit more is to separate that out from you know businesses that would benefit from being 10 like like a restaurant yeah so you want to add that to just Z1 or the OB I mean if I don't think they should have to go for a VAR to get a restaurant to open a restaurant in the C1 or the OB really on the high I would be a little hesitant on the OB Zone only because that rear lot in the back um I just think that needs a little closer look than just to say go ahead and do the OB Z that just c1s C1 is I the alternative would be to take those two lots that are on Route 10 and put them on the let me let me just interject this and we all think about it uh C1 is between Harrison Headley you have the micro Brewery in there when you had the bowling alley in there you got a lot of complaints from Neighbors okay CU there's not enough parking then you got have a micro brewery probably popular a restaurant also a lot of traffic usually so U and you got a couple other uh things in there have to be a little bit look at that a little hard also to to keep in mind that that parcel is dual zoned it's in the C1 and the rear habits in the R2 so uh that alone uh would generate I say more specific interest and concern because any type of use put in you put in that parcel the fact that split zoning I think that was prot protect the resents to and the potential for more house you know additional housing to the rear go back to what Frank said areas you back up and you're P to Res dental and the purpose of of of the committee was to make more more marketable bring it more modern at the same time protect the town that we have the values that we have and U even though we might not have allowed something it doesn't stop someone from seeking that certain thing at the board of adjustment and let theard that's the purpose to see is it unique is it will it really fit and no matter what you do here what we do tonight it's never going to be 100% uh perfect and there might be one of those things that might not be allowed but might really fit that we don't think about as time evolved and there's demand for different markets but um you know when we look at the master plan it's like you know anywhere you look you back up residential and you got to take traffic parking into into lights times peak times so the spirit of whole thing was just to be a little bit moreful the same time keep the quality of life I don't want it's not written in stone here there's there's there's a little bit of latitude in every Zone and the bo of adjustment is set up for that purpose we have that for that purpose because no matter what we do here it'll never be 100% perfect 100% marketable and definitely we don't lower any standards and if anything a little bit more restrictive on certain things because of we do back up to residential so always keep that in the back of your mind when you have these you're looking at the you know the B1 B2 B3 and know and the OB and all that um you know Isaac Newton's law every reaction has the same and opposite Rea every action stay opposite reaction this this is happening a lot so it's juggling that and that's all I have to say Thank you so retail popup the definition says up to several weeks is that a standard definition several weeks because that seems kind of short well seven weeks could be two months I mean I you know I just don't want to be limited to yeah do all that work and that's three weeks right right I think um is that the definition it was it was a it was a definition it doesn't mean that it can't be tweaked thing yeah's over pretty much right maybe you should put it up to but inad of several weeks you can put up to I don't something exactly um self storage facility not in the OB zone out on the highway um it might work there or I know it used to be an office building zone right that's why it was OB right but I don't know what it we have that down on the wer property so yes and you have assisting buildings that are there now ex build yes there's existing building I don't know where would have I'm just I'm not zoning it for what we have today I'm zoning it for what happens if somebody buys the property 5 years from now and they want to do something different you know I want I'd like to take a look at it because I think those two properties up front are actually on the smaller side but I just want we should take a look at it same thing with wholesale there were a lot of things that just weren't offered in the OB so just to take a look at some of those things that we didn't include there is that something that we could consider or should consider if not if it's not viable or we don't think it's ever going to happen or what's there is going to be there comfort then there was there's a footnote on page seven in the back 13 exercise St Studios only permitted but I'm not sure if that's like a hold over that's not ignore that yeah okay so just for now I'm not GNA the footnotes and the bul standards are that's fine okay yeah oh media production facilities is that something we talked you talked about as a group including not including yeah it just seemed like something that um was very modern in certain respects and that that could be something that could be included um yeah I know the film industry New Jersey really doing more it is so you know be nice to show that we're we're here we're welcome right welcoming to that industry yep you guys have any comments on Nancy's questions or comments at all or few of them I I did comment and we'll look at everything I mean that's what we're here to have a conversation see what we do we may say yes or we may say no I I have a comment um sure regarding limiting limited manufacturing I know that's a that's a tough one because there's always potential for impacts to the public but um I know the council's aware of this the public should be aware of that I four or five years ago we did a major overhaul to our performance standards and our ordinance it went from about a paragraph to about four pages now and there's a lot of things in there that take jurisdiction over not only limited manufacturing but any commercial use in terms of noise light odor all the potential environmental and quality of life impacts that's uh a resident could feel or experience as a result of commercial use so it's it's important to notice to note that um we do have a beefed up a rather robust performance standard sections in our ordinance and every approval of the planning board grants I.E like the latest one we did up on rout 53 requires a demonstration of compliance with those performance standards prior to co and those performance standards they don't go away at Co they're there forever and subject to enforcement I think that gives the burrow and its residents some some degree of safy just thank appreciate you all being here um especially so many members of the public um I got I have a couple demographic questions I I didn't I didn't hear this but I know sesta swets um that's that's OB correct yes OB okay and then adjacent to the left there uh is R2 an R2 Zone um it looks like it's in front of um Foxwoods there what what is that what is what is in that I had a hard time trying to figure out just below the C1 there it says R2 Fox it's across from Foxwood it's correct that's the one house in that Island between tab Road Route 53 and 10 one there I know it okay um so that property okay so that land owner he owns that entire that entire area and that is his sheep sheep okay um I that's my assumption yeah there's one land owner as one house is one problem it shows that on the tax map okay okay great rental a rental okay um and then another question I had there are two two properties um just north of Chase Bank um and if I'm correct they're in the B4 zone is that correct which two properties like that's that's the point looks like one is uh a rental and the other one is a a white freestanding building with blue with blue accents right next to Chase I believe you're correct North Chase is that south of place of it is it is in the a res it's a resident and I think the the next one is the kns of Columbus [Music] Columbus Smith lives there okay um next question question uh the in the B2 Zone um it looks like in health or fitness center would that include like a crunch or a Planet Fitness there should yes it would right okay uh and then any businesses that uh Nancy may have touched on this any businesses that we don't see listed here um are they would they have to automatically for a variance if it's if we don't put it in here yeah I think that there is well there there's a section in the ordinance now that explicitly lists prohibited uses I think it's our I won't speak really hon it would be my recommendation there is also language in there that says anything not expressly permitted is prohibited I think that language that's pretty common in ordinances and I think that's a good language because you're always going to I guess you're going to miss something if you try to prohibit if you try to pinpoint what you want to prohibit you'll miss something so you might as well just say listen if we haven't identified it as a permitted use and you want it you have to get a variance okay I mean I didn't two came to mind I didn't see very many very many others looking through it quickly but um okay I was thinking of vet veterinarian services or tattoo B tto Ty Place yeah we we had talked about the tattoo parlers and our I I think as a committee we talked about it a little bit and the recommendation was let someone get a you experience and and not that because and this is true with massage parlors too right there are different types meaning there's going to be maybe a higher end one and maybe a less reputable one and you if you blanket permit them you you kind of don't have that option to um perhaps keep out what you would want at the same time you can't make it prohibitive because they have massage and you have massage that use Town that's any element element they had to get Varan that's that's the you're not going to cover 100% doesn't go for that's adjustment is there you know yeah no I get it I mean I like I said this covers so many businesses and I I I thought of those two real quickly I mean I I know there's more I just personally we want to be open for business and we want to be you know that's that that that step for a variant for something that might fit really well out there on route 10 and you know in the C1 and the C1 as those businesses continue to turn over um anyway that's that's fine and I I had checks in other uh other boxes where I thought something might fit but then as I read more and understood the whole process more I get that it's uh probably has to do with both variants requirements and setbacks and MoDOT size um so I'm I'm I'm good right now but I might I may continue through and think of something else but I'm good Kathy I may continue through when I read it a couple more times it's fascinating thank you all for working on this I cannot believe that you could have done this in a year it looks like it took way more than that I really don't have any specific questions but um I like reading about the uses and then you have put the definitions for all of those uses with so many things in them it it's fascinating um I remember early on when I started working in Morris point there was a gas station where oh near where GPS is there was also Frank do you remember that and there was also a car dealership across the street where B my first car there oh did you where now moris but that was where um near where Morris lickers is now was right and I remember those things being here and the thought of this document is so much more than what it was in town a few years ago I'm fascinated and I know it's going to take more for me to grasp it all but thank you okay thank you um I do have quite a few questions don't we'll get to them all but um just the idea of a veterinarian I know there's history with with vets um uh in the center of town here um but these these pet spas and these the veterinarians and the overnight where would you want a good place where do you think the neighbors would embrace it let me tell you in the center of town the reason no I wouldn't I wouldn't suggest a center of town at all because they walk the dogs all over the place you know somewhere out further on new 10 or something like that you know it's like a City MD kind of thing I would think except that you know dogs don't don't observe sanitary practices like people at City MD but I'm just I'm throwing it out there and just asking for the reasons really why not out somewhere else because I think we looked at all different places okay and and I'm not saying you people can't find one but it all they all seem to be in either a high traffic area or near residences you know and and where they would walk the dogs and down the street and but boom uh I don't think people want that I'm sorry you can find a place you can find a place we'll cly put it in and if somebody wants to do that they can come in and ask for a variance I understand that I'm just wondering the thought behind it we did talk about that though some something in my mind as I had experience with these um a veterinarian vet shock is one thing but you have to be very careful about these doggy d d d doggy daycare facilities or these pet Spas that's 24 an hour care and those become problematic so you have to make a distinction you're going to think about a bed shop versus Doggy Daycare or doggy Spa you have to separate those in terms of definition I'm Affiliated doggy hotels I can tell you one thing want start barking they all start barking one one we have a tenant we have both standards we took precaution to put insulated walls and everything in the roof whatever we could when they bark you can hear from about I don't know if it would meet your 50 foot what it 50 5050 decimal at at that range so it would need some space again it's doable but it's a something to consider um the data centers there's nothing listed in in L1 or L2 um also the isone for data centers just 60 East Handover that zone is what that occupi you know quite a few of these um uses so you suggesting on the eyesone and possibly I'm just again asking for a reasoning why you know was it yes no I don't know so what uses you talk a data center yeah data center I know we can't cover everything I'm not trying to cover everything because that'll never happen and even data processing I think could be done in the in the I Zone too and the L1 and L2 or just the I I I I have I but okay for that of processing but something for people to look at being is a commercial profession wouldn't that be already permitted l or no no a question on page three with Finance Insurance real estate offices um in the L2 don't we have that listed in the overlay yes it should be let me double it's for sure in in the overlay but let me just make sure see what it now they currently thanks you're right yeah it should say overlay okay um I also have finance and trans real estate you know 6 oh okay something um indoor commercial recreation facility in the in L2 those are usually big large spaces again I don't know it was thought about the reasoning behind that just throwing that out [Music] there l so so you say consider L1 and L2 for that maybe you know again these are things that I came up with and have everybody take a look at big demand for that does happen um again nonprofit clubs on page six nonpr lodes I I would hesitate on that one only because you're talking out there yeah that existing very popular in our shopping center I don't know if those two uses mixed together but we can think about it I know you you said you you made a mistake here for warehousing can I just read that definition that we have here yes um a building in which Goods suppes equipments materials and merchandise are stored where no physical change in such articles takes place and where no and where such articles are not otherwise used on premises such as in storage areas when part of a retail establishment or manufacturing plant off the space is NE necessary to the principal Warehouse use is permitted Warehouse use does not include self storage facility Warehouse use uh house does include fulfillment does include fulfillment center it does it does okay which are part of the supply chain delivering online orders to customers in a time and fashion so an example of this definition would that be General pling I don't think so I do but they they have retail in the OR wholesale really in the front right and then that is a warehouse for um Supply that sell only distinction there General Supply is both it's it's retail and warehouse but um a showroom in a showroom right so it's it's kind of a multi-use commercial use um but this definition is just trying to isolate specifically the warehouse shoes so so I need just an example of this of a warehouse based on this definition on this definition yeah what just got approved on the vision that that was a straight up Warehouse use with 5% office in terms of the existing facility I don't know if we have an existing Warehouse in the burrow that I can think of of pure Warehouse use I can't think so even if a company Supply goes under contractor service okay that was my question so we have a few minutes left before our regular meeting anybody in CL no this was very helpful and I you know I think I just want to emphasize this is the first step you know this is this is not a done document and it's not ready for adoption at all um but it is this was very useful tonight so thank you for your time thank you that's a question I have what happened now after all these comment well we have to go back and discuss but we also we uh are going to hear for the plan at the next planning board meeting who I'm sure will have comments their own comments um and then I think we'll well sure this this body has to whatever we put together is the ultimate adopter so um you know I'm sure we'll be back somebody mentioned about uh massage parlors and we have two um don't ever put them in as a permitted use even though those two went before Board of adjustment so did another one and uh thank God we got the cooperation of the landlord and the police chief Jason Co and got rid of them because there were more activities going on than just massages uh and when I complained to a few Mayors they said oh you only got one of those in here Town well we have none now so that's good anybody else yeah B standards you didn't touch right you didn't change any standards we didn't and and partly I think is that we wanted to sort of focus on the uses first you know and then I think that especially after um our conversation yesterday you know I thought about it a little bit more and think that we could specifically there are certain places that there may be some obvious tweaks you know like we were talking about the B1 um right uh and then there are other types of bul standard changes that we could make but if the governing body wanted to um affect a certain vision for their downtown and by that I mean if you wanted to bring build closer to the street that kind of thing that would be um that ever involved changes the V standards I I don't think there are any perfect V standards and anybody that comes in is always asking uh for some accommodation variance because it doesn't quite fit and they'll never in my mind ever get the perfect there's no perfect everybody is different a little different or a different idea which uh especially as you allow more and more uses in zones to come up with a perfect set of bulk standards per Zone with all these additional uses is is impossible it can't be done um I know Li I I gave a lot of thought to the F uh number and the building he number as it relates to these new uses that you don't on your Zone and I think the I both agree at this point we felt was best not to change those and not to be more restricted at this point because the whole purpose of this is TOC commercial downtown in so to me let it's like let's take a wait and see approach and it becomes an issue then we'll change it but let's not make it more restrictive in terms of Standards now we did do a deep dive on the parking standards uh last couple of pages that's from Liz and I in the committee and you'll see there that there's a lot of detail and revision to the parking standards as there should be because there's data out there that supports the just in case people don't know both standards are like Frontage rear side yard square footage on our lot those are the type talking about okay I'd like to thank everybody for their time thank you very much forut the we're always welcome to uh to get any other suggestions that you may think of we got a ways to go good enough thank you everybody do I he have a motion to adjourn the conference move second second second by Kathy um we're going to do our regular meeting now welcome to stay I thank everybody for coming out tonight [Music] there L you [Music] [Music] you doing yeah I mean I just said unless you want to continue than