WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=1yohlkHKhRY

Part: 1

1
00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:23.840
To the flag of the stands, one nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all. >> I hereby announce that this meeting is being held in accordance with chapter

2
00:00:23.840 --> 00:00:40.800
231 of the open public meeting act. Proper notice of meeting dates has been given to the Morris County Morris news and Morris County Ded. This meeting is a judicial proceeding. Any questions or comments must be limited to issues that are relevant to

3
00:00:40.800 --> 00:01:04.640
what the board may consider reaching the city forum. A reminder notice to members of the planning board and the federal staff use during the meeting shall be used solely for the purp >> here. >> Mr.

4
00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:20.640
>> Here >> Mrs. Mr. >> here >> Mr. Houston >> present >> mayor car >> present >> mask >> here >> and Mr.

5
00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:36.960
>> President. >> Okay. Before we start, I want to make mention that at least Hubard is sitting in for Andy Brewer tonight. >> You're welcome. >> Uh our first item on the agenda tonight is the approval of meeting minutes for

6
00:01:36.960 --> 00:01:56.799
March 16, 2026. Each board member received a copy. Does anyone have any comments or corrections? Okay, I have a motion to approve these meeting minutes. So move a second. >> Second roll call.

7
00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:14.239
>> Okay. I just wanted to make sure. And first >> first was the mayor. Second was myself. >> Okay. All right. >> Mr. Wolf. >> Yes. >> Mr. Bezel. >> Yes. >> Mr.

8
00:02:14.239 --> 00:02:35.400
>> Yes. >> Mr. Houston. >> Yes. Yes. >> Mrs. McClki, >> yes. >> And Mr. >> Yes. >> Okay. Our next item on the agenda are comments from the public. >> One quick thing. >> Yeah.

9
00:02:35.760 --> 00:02:49.920
Um I don't even know if this was the forum that I heard today, but there was some talk of um the timing for the traffic lights getting looked at. County. Okay. >> That got taken care of probably about

10
00:02:49.920 --> 00:03:10.319
two weeks ago along here. It seems >> I was going to say because it's been worse. I mean, we couldn't even move on Avenue now Saturday and Sunday this week. >> When I came home, I couldn't even get

11
00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:34.040
down the street. So, whatever. Thank you. only so much you can do. >> As part of the agenda, committee reports, minor site plan committee, >> then the master plan committee.

12
00:03:37.760 --> 00:03:58.640
>> Um, correspondence and bills. Karen, are there any correspondences this month? No bills. >> Yes. App number 20260563 from March 23rd 26.

13
00:03:58.640 --> 00:04:23.600
Falcon LLP legal services 33250 number 2026040 30th of March 26 Phillips free affordable housing another $7,210

14
00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:53.120
even number 20260662 the 7th of April for Anderson Benler Engineering Services $96.70 PO number 20260706 the 10th of April for May Falcon for

15
00:04:53.120 --> 00:05:13.840
legal services $1,960 $60 even. Last one is number 20260707 on the 10th of April again for Mayor Zin the amount of $1,120

16
00:05:13.840 --> 00:05:30.720
for general legal services. Move that we approve these. Is there a second? >> Second roll. >> Mr. Wolf. >> Yes. >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Mr.

17
00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:49.120
>> Yes. >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Mr. Houston. >> Yes. >> May. >> Yes. >> Mr. Mr. >> Yes. >> Okay. Next item on our agenda is business. This is the revised

18
00:05:49.120 --> 00:06:18.560
application process. So tonight will edits comments. Those those items were so >> those are the items that were added based on the comments that we received

19
00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:44.800
in the last >> I um I went through them the other day. I thought they were pretty good. I asked about the glossery that I thought was going to come forward and then Mlesky said one as well. I think there's a couple things still that we could add

20
00:06:44.800 --> 00:07:02.000
to the philos. Um there's some minor points, things like you want to be really specific about percentage or whatever goes into the escrow. Don't know question.

21
00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:20.400
Um would be good to just a say NA instead of N for not applicable on the list. It's easier to see when you're scrolling down. Um the final thing I would say is we go through the

22
00:07:20.400 --> 00:07:50.960
process in words. be really nice to have a real simple flowchart that just says like otherwise I'd have the same com. So I don't have as many written notes as as Andy here actually appreciated being

23
00:07:50.960 --> 00:08:09.280
able to go through the email you guys sent that for one I want to be a living dock as things need to get there >> actually not >> well it would have to be open for

24
00:08:09.280 --> 00:08:26.960
>> no no actually that's part of the code >> okay so it has to be done understand. >> Yeah. >> So, >> okay. Then I think we just need to really ensure it's as all-encompassing as possible. >> I agree. But but without things that

25
00:08:26.960 --> 00:08:42.959
aren't necessary. I mean, frankly, I don't think that that people need to know uh the 20 pages. >> Yeah. >> In the in the I don't think we need that. But I also don't think that people need to have to find out what an art

26
00:08:42.959 --> 00:09:00.800
studio how cery and metery are when they all they want to know is what's a sideyard and what's a backyard you know I mean that's I think what we all agreed was in four >> yeah no and I agree with you and that's where I think as you know simplicity is

27
00:09:00.800 --> 00:09:15.680
sort of key my mind went to a flowchart too maybe there's you know some sort of future state where there's I think we talked about a clickable PDF you can say hey I'm looking at this >> about you have to speak to >> my apologies So maybe something that you could click

28
00:09:15.680 --> 00:09:32.399
into to say I'm doing this project. This is where it takes you sort of something interactive a little bit and I can understand that was a future state to get to just because 20 pages of papers scare people off you know and don't too far. I think a flowchart would be a

29
00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:56.320
great starting point. >> Um just just to the point of um online kind of direct guiding people that's that's the intent right is when it is online right you would click down into what type first of all you would have um you saw like the cover sheet guide right

30
00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:11.920
that I that we we put together right it would explain what type of you're going for and then when you click into it, it'll give you the appropriate forms and all that stuff that you can do online. You fill them out online, right? As opposed to now where you just download this entire package, you're like, "What do I do?"

31
00:10:11.920 --> 00:10:29.040
>> Right? So, the whole point of this is that it's much easier to guide you to what type of application you build. So, that >> I think the timeline is submit before, you know, 14 days before 120 whatever, right? I think some of those

32
00:10:29.040 --> 00:10:50.079
>> people residents don't have any idea how >> they don't they don't understand now because now >> but yeah >> durations

33
00:10:50.079 --> 00:11:14.240
point the information that's necessary here that's the right package of information for you and get you I think the lawyer is a great addition and I had the same comment about the dates which I think is critically important for people to know because we

34
00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:30.720
have to basically address their expectations. How quick do they expect? So I got questions directly myself if we if we file something with the board of justice how long take and so on and so forth. I think that's really important to clarify exactly what what time what time

35
00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:48.160
frame they're looking especially when you're talking about personal res idea of how long it's going to take to get through the process and then start their construction uh process just a comment if we do go with an interactive type of

36
00:11:48.160 --> 00:12:05.519
uh internet application to facilitate the building of the application I think it to look around various towns already have that set up because I think I looked at Mount Oliver and I think they have one online as well

37
00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:22.760
and it probably would help us jump a few steps and move into the process much much easier. So to that end, we we uh we've done that as part of our research. We looked at other towns and the intent is to is to model that model ours.

38
00:12:22.880 --> 00:12:46.399
So that's a good suggestion. >> So if I could just go page by page here on each board. So this is the checklist of submission requirements. It's page 202 number 834.

39
00:12:46.399 --> 00:13:10.600
So it says provide any and all we have to put prior and or current or does that and all that? >> I'm on page 202 of the checklist of submission requirements.

40
00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:47.120
Yage. >> So you're looking at A7 >> resolution would be a prior, right? So I would say all prior resolutions would probably be more proper than any and all. Yes. So that's what I have. I have prior and or current.

41
00:13:47.120 --> 00:14:09.519
>> What current resolutions? >> That's fine. >> I would think it should say provide all prior resolutions for the second property. >> And then we have to add 35. I'll say restrictions on that.

42
00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:47.760
>> Yeah. Existing or proposed restrictions. What's the exact verbage? >> Existing and or somewhere. >> All right. So, And so that's page 202. The other thing I would suggest, >> one second. I think you should add easements.

43
00:14:47.760 --> 00:15:04.000
>> Uh I didn't see >> location A7 location size right away. That's there. Okay. And I would suggest if we're going to do

44
00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:26.600
NA or whatever, you're going to make that little box that precedes the number. >> Sure. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's that's a format that's easy. So on subdivision checklist H23

45
00:15:34.079 --> 00:16:16.240
is the one I have a question. Yeah. B3 is that drilling well or we need that in there. >> I don't think anybody's going to be putting in a system. No, they're not permitted.

46
00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:33.320
>> I'm just I I was going to say if there's if there's possibility that there's a remote property that's not accessible to the water system or the sewer system, then what this if there's not

47
00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:50.399
I mean, forgive me, I don't remember where did it come from. >> It says public sword disposal system is not available. you know then they'll have to do curb test to see whether you know they could do a septic system I mean we have a

48
00:16:50.399 --> 00:17:07.760
public disposal system available >> I think >> and we don't want people >> want to know >> there's a system >> but if there's like I said I'm not familiar with every property in town

49
00:17:07.760 --> 00:17:22.959
fringe area that don't have a sewer system then you can't >> so would that be auh that say variance or what you know >> what about language that just says that you need to show proof of supply I mean if you're tying

50
00:17:22.959 --> 00:17:41.039
it to the sewer system then you need right capacity >> I think detail submission >> I don't have any more solution that that could go away if you like but you know that that's always the one

51
00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:59.320
thing that I don't come up 10 years from now, but if we have some kind of language >> that just requires that they show that they have capacity available for service or alternatively I guess they do. >> So what would the verbiage be then?

52
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:20.840
>> I mean that's something they can work on later. I don't know. >> I'd like to get the verbs done so we can we can finalize this going on for a while. Andy's after sewer sewage system

53
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:48.080
isn't >> available. Yeah, it is a bit. >> Yeah. >> Like Bill says, you know, >> they don't know that they're not. The sewer ordinance requires that a property that's runs on a sewer must connect to

54
00:18:48.080 --> 00:19:05.120
the sew. But if there's a property somewhere that is not accessible to a sewer, they're allowed to put a septic system. No prohibition. >> I I don't think there's any property like that. >> Well, I don't know every every property

55
00:19:05.120 --> 00:19:25.919
in town. There's areas that that are outside of source. They're not developed, but time they might be developed and they they either have to extend the source system or this was There there could be the eventuality

56
00:19:25.919 --> 00:19:40.400
that there is some property. >> I think you should just >> I think that could be addressed enough. If it's not here, it doesn't matter. It doesn't change. >> They're required to to hook up to the public >> if it's available to the school. What would your

57
00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:55.919
>> um they have to show from whatever the authority is of their capacity available for >> they don't have to capacity. They have to demonstrate that there's a school available for >> Okay. >> Yeah. Because a single family home,

58
00:19:55.919 --> 00:20:17.760
>> this is a subdivision, I guess. >> Okay. >> Or or maybe some some wording that that is like uh why you can't and and I don't know that there's any possibility why you >> can't. I mean the fact that it might be

59
00:20:17.760 --> 00:20:32.960
expensive but hey >> are we 100% sure that the ordinance is there is no prohibition for >> I don't know that it uses those words but the sewer ordinance requires hook up if there's if there's sewer fronting or

60
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:49.320
available there's not >> but there are places in town where you have to go through the backyards. >> No that's fine. >> Yeah. So we can't say if it fronts honor. >> I said fronts on or has availability.

61
00:20:50.799 --> 00:21:06.559
>> Excuse me. Can I say something? >> Sure. >> Every permit for a new home or anything that we have ever issued, we need a water service and a sewer. So I have not as long as I've been here had anyone

62
00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:23.039
that the only ones that I know of was some of them that weren't connected. Okay. when the sewers came through and the problem was when they went to sell their house they had to connect to the sewers and to the service that but

63
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:55.039
that's you know so wouldn't this be done is what I'm saying when they apply for >> that's what I think I think they have to double check our So we are we striking V3.

64
00:21:55.039 --> 00:22:19.840
I don't know if I want to strike it. So you were you were saying something before about what language could be in there. >> I can I can you want to wait? I can work with Andy and explain the conversation that we had here so he can draft

65
00:22:19.840 --> 00:22:54.320
something that's appropriate. >> Right. So I think in my next comment went over the days before meetings that sort of stuff but this is the plan board zoning board of adjustment

66
00:22:54.320 --> 00:23:17.679
subdivision application checklist cover sheet guide. In case you all >> on the second page, it says application and hearing process brief summary number one presubmission meeting

67
00:23:17.679 --> 00:23:47.159
optional applicants may meet with burl or with board staff for guidance. I think that should be specific maybe attorney again. Okay.

68
00:23:54.480 --> 00:24:13.120
You said page two. >> Page two. Sorry, Jason. >> Page two, number one. >> Yep. Applicants been meeting with board staff for guidance. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think we got to be a little bit more specific, but it's not board members. It should be profession board

69
00:24:13.120 --> 00:24:33.919
professionals maybe. >> I don't think we should >> not for the profession. We don't have we we should not deal with a pre the staff and their staff. That's fine.

70
00:24:33.919 --> 00:24:51.360
I I don't want to see every reaching out looking for advice from the engineers, >> but it's saying it says May. >> Well, May is permissive. I think they can call. >> We're trying to make it easy for the

71
00:24:51.360 --> 00:26:10.240
>> to have a question by professional body. I don't believe that's the right way to go. Did you have prescription? staff. >> You're not staff. >> No, I know. But I'm saying the only

72
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:39.600
stat. could be planning board secretary that >> but it's not a meeting there that's not a meeting just request guidance is that >> that's >> no because she can't give guidance either for that >> what she should be discussing

73
00:26:39.600 --> 00:26:55.360
>> she can't recommend this or recommend that you know I I think they should seek advice of their own professional self right here. >> Yeah, but wait a minute. Everybody, you don't have to have an attorney. >> No, I understand. But they shouldn't be consulting our

74
00:26:55.360 --> 00:27:11.840
>> Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I I >> But staff is just striking. It's optional anyway. And if we're just saying, >> was that in there before? >> No, this is the cover sheet. So, this is

75
00:27:11.840 --> 00:27:34.799
just didn't exist. >> It didn't exist before. >> Before Jason goes on, I have a one on page one of that same document. Okay. Where it says administrative items, checklist includes

76
00:27:34.799 --> 00:28:16.279
administrative items, tax certification, draft, public notice, and it should say somewhere in here escro. Yeah. >> Pardon me. >> Yeah. other certific cific

77
00:28:33.760 --> 00:28:49.279
and if they email me a PDF file I can only have it I can't get a big PDF file. You say the amounts are wrong. >> Amounts. Okay. Like number two, submit 10. >> What's the What's the top heading of the paper?

78
00:28:49.279 --> 00:29:05.200
>> The one that we were just doing. >> Okay. Mars planning boarding board adjustment. >> Okay. What number? >> Okay. It would be number two. Have to complete an application. >> Okay. Carrie, you're So you're on the subdivision application checklist.

79
00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:25.600
You're on the subdivision site plan review application. >> That's what I'm doing. subdivision application check >> still on. I'm sorry. >> Yeah. >> We'll come back to your comments. >> All right. >> Okay. So, moving on to

80
00:29:25.600 --> 00:29:58.960
subdivision site planning review application. >> That's the cover sheet. So in authorization es second page. >> Okay. Yep. >> Signing application grants board and its

81
00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:19.279
professionals permission to respect the property. Board members. >> Board members. Board members. >> Yep. And professionals. >> That's also there's something thatffect >> but this is an explanation.

82
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:54.600
>> Yeah. Again here you have the going down the application process. You have pre submission. Um number six I think it should should be resto Number seven. Number seven.

83
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:30.000
>> I just made a note. >> Yeah. Resolution will be prepared for adoption at the following meeting. Something like that. >> The next schedule. Karen, you had something for this one. Now on page one, >> I'm just trying to say like I don't know

84
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:48.640
if it's true everywhere, but the amount of copies is wrong and a PDF I don't have a I don't have the ability to do a big PDF. I can do the day by >> I don't know. Usually they give me a PDF

85
00:31:48.640 --> 00:32:07.519
file that's bigger. People can look at it. Some people be fine with it, but they can blow it up. But I can't do that. I can't make copies of >> they're very small. They're going to be very small. >> So, uh,

86
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:23.039
>> number two, submit required copies for both minor and major applications. >> Right. >> So, Karen has two questions. The second question has to do with the PDF, >> right? >> Her her concern is that if she gets a

87
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:38.960
PDF, she can't blow it up. But >> but she's getting 10 hard copies. >> Correct. >> But I need more than the board members. There's nine board members and there's three professionals. >> Make it 15.

88
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:53.679
>> Okay. And I need 15 or more. But a lot of times there could be the traffic guy. And there's also sometimes I have to to the fire department. And I also have >> How many do you want? >> I want the same amount that I normally get. >> What is that?

89
00:32:53.679 --> 00:33:10.399
>> 19 and one original. >> Okay. Sometimes I have some left over. I mean, it's not every single application, but I every the police chief gets a copy, but you know what I'm saying? There's a lot of people that get copies.

90
00:33:10.399 --> 00:33:27.760
The only officer gets a copy. >> PDS should still be required because That's some people like to see you can distribute it to the board members. Correct. >> Okay. So item PDF everybody wants copy of that

91
00:33:27.760 --> 00:33:42.960
but >> yeah you'll get your 20. >> Okay. So on that second page where it says zoning and definitions reference see attached definitions or glossery or

92
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:58.720
whatever you want to call it. But I think we agreed at the last meeting and through our discussions tonight, we want a glossery for for everyone. >> And whatever verbage that you use, I'm just whatever verbiage that you use in that zone in the definition. Wherever these

93
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:18.560
>> this is reference, it should all stay the same. >> What's that? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. This this whatever reference it is, we carry through forms, but this reference references back >> to the glossery that already exists, >> but it doesn't. It actually doesn't. You

94
00:34:18.560 --> 00:34:35.440
need people to go on Mars Plains website. Okay? And then they have to go on to the government and then they have to go on to uh zoning or whatever. I think I put it on here. Uh there there are many many many things that they have

95
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:50.560
to government. Then you have to click on ordinances and code. So just eliminate that. Say we're attaching the um But if but if the glossery changes, >> which which it will, but it needs to refer back to the ordinance, which is what this does.

96
00:34:50.560 --> 00:35:06.400
>> Correct. Okay. But it can't change until you It can't change except by ordinance. >> Correct. >> You can't just slip another word in there. >> Nobody's slipping anything. >> So, I'm saying it should say click on government >> ordinances code, then click on Burrow of

97
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:22.800
Mars Plains, New Jersey code book uh via ecode 360. then click on chapter 13 land development and then click on article two definitions and I'd like to know that everybody on this board has done

98
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:38.880
that >> there's a page on your website >> that's what this can >> yes if you're going to list all of these and you're just going to click on subdivision site plan review application after all this can't you just have the ordinance there >> correct that's what it's

99
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:54.560
>> no because I don't think the the members of the general public know how to get there. I don't think members of the application. >> That's right. >> Pardon me. >> That's how they get the application. >> That's right. >> They call Karen and ask for the application. That's what they're going to do. >> No, they're going to go online and they're going to

100
00:35:54.560 --> 00:36:11.400
>> They're going to call Karen first >> and she's going to direct it to the website. >> She's going to tell them, right? Okay. >> But I also can give them an application. I believe I should be able to do that if they want to come in and I should be able to give them a check.

101
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:28.320
You can have that available as well. If it's on the website, the link that goes to that if it's a paper copy, she should have a list of definitions. >> Yeah, that's >> that goes with something that she hands out. >> So, you can't see it because this is a

102
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:44.960
paper copy, but this what's in bold is a link. So, you would click on and it would take you to the definitions and then if Carrie clicks on it, she can print out those definitions and name it. >> But it shouldn't be the the definitions that are in the code. It should be these definitions because like I said, there's

103
00:36:44.960 --> 00:37:02.000
20 pages in the code. There's 20 pages of definition. >> Why would these definitions be different than what's in code? >> Because the code is 20 pages. I took these definitions out of the code because we don't need to know what a metery is. These people are looking to

104
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:16.560
see what what's a sideyard. >> What if somebody wants to know a definition that's not on that? >> What if it's right there, >> right? That's my that's my point. Yeah, >> they can go and click on the website. It's right there and they can read it. We don't need to attach something that's not already.

105
00:37:16.560 --> 00:37:36.560
>> We do need to attach a velocity >> which is already included in the code. I think we can attach for a lack of better term. >> That's that's fine. That's I mean >> it's a definition of a glossery. When you read through a dictionary, you don't

106
00:37:36.560 --> 00:37:51.440
just pull out the one word that you need and hand it to somebody. You read through the entire >> We're trying to make it work. >> We're trying to make it easy for the >> not for the attorneys because the attorneys can figure it out. >> Yeah. I I I think that people are smart enough to read through a glossery and figure out what definitions they're

107
00:37:51.440 --> 00:38:07.599
looking for. How many How many people on this planning board have looked through the whole code? >> I'll bet not everybody. >> Is you is this definition section within zoning? >> Yes. >> So, it's just specific to what the >> But there's 20 pages. >> They're always big. They're always

108
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:23.520
>> But what I'm saying is people do not need to know the definition of automotive repair shop when they're trying to do an application for a simple subdivision. I just struggle with having a separate document that might be

109
00:38:23.520 --> 00:38:39.440
different than what's in your code. >> It says right on here a list of complete definitions C and then it just has the ones that might be applicable to a subdivision. >> You could always just put the noted, you

110
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:55.280
know, whatever you guys >> Yeah, I don't know if you have that. >> I do. I do. I I would just I would hesitate to If if if whether it's an an attorney or an engineer or a resident who just needs

111
00:38:55.280 --> 00:39:11.040
to find a definition, I think it's easier to just have your whole code there. So that I I strongly strongly disagree. >> And I don't make decisions here. >> Well, we could ask the rest. >> Well, I think the way a glossy normally works is you're reading through the

112
00:39:11.040 --> 00:39:26.640
application, you see something, a word you don't understand or need more description, you look it up, gloss So that's where it doesn't kill me to have it be 20 pages or so just because I think they're looking for the specific word that they don't understand and they're going to look through

113
00:39:26.640 --> 00:39:41.440
alphabetically and probably be able to find it. You know, I think you want it more open than closed just because if they don't understand something, that's what they're going to be looking for understanding or they're going to jump to Google. >> Well, Google doesn't help them in Mars

114
00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:57.200
plans. Well, no, it might give them some directions that what the language is for planning in general, but that that's that's sort of what my comment earlier was about, you know, ensuring that it is broad enough because that's just how I would use the glossery is I don't look

115
00:39:57.200 --> 00:40:12.720
at it until there's something I don't understand, then I'm looking for, you know, then I look for it. >> Well, I think you could structure a search. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> But it should reference the entire not just What you put here is not

116
00:40:12.720 --> 00:40:28.240
referencing how to get there. >> It is terminology shall be interpreted in accordance with code 360 article 2.1 definitions. It's exactly the same thing that you're referencing. >> Oh, so you'll click on it. >> Okay.

117
00:40:28.240 --> 00:41:01.640
>> Okay. >> Yeah. Um again the variance application checklist I'm on now the pre submission should be out of there we'll add also that one mayor administrative items

118
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:57.920
>> right fees and escro >> yeah everything's going to have to be consistent >> correct I'm Go on to somebody else. I have one other thing. number. >> Uh so just for the record, you're you're referencing uh the sheet with Yep. with all the

119
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:16.800
comments and the certification notoriized signature for owner or owner consent to applicant review and adise. Oh yeah. So right um so at the end of this right we we the comment was made to

120
00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:32.000
add a we get to get to one applicant certification. So if you look at any of the PDFs or any of the documents in the very end it's highlighted in yellow, right? I think

121
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:49.040
the the question there was um we wanted the attorney to take a look at that because we don't to my knowledge we don't currently require notoriization uh of these documents. So now we're adding that but once we put once we make

122
00:42:49.040 --> 00:43:03.520
this a electronic file I don't know if that's even possible to notoriize something. So we don't do it now. We don't do it now. We are we the request was to add it in

123
00:43:03.520 --> 00:43:18.800
but then during the um committee's discussion we we um stated that because it's an online PDF there is no way to notoriize a document that's that's digital >> but the original document has to be submitted

124
00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:35.920
>> submitted yes but you but not notorized >> absolutely it's not notorized now >> absolutely And Andy spoke about it. He said, "You know, >> I'm not comfortable not having the owner and

125
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:54.079
sign off and have that." >> That means a tenant can do an application at at some res. >> Yeah. >> And the owner has no idea that that's happening. >> So the notoriization is

126
00:43:54.079 --> 00:44:10.400
solves that problem. How? >> Well, it's a testament that that's the applicant and then that's the property owner whoever that may be may not be the same person. >> So this is what the notoriization is. I bring my document in Karen and I say Karen I am so and so and she says let me

127
00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:27.119
see your proof of who you are. >> Okay. And she and she you you show her proof that you are Bill Houston. Okay. And then she can notoriize that Bill Houston signed this application. An attorney is also

128
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:42.240
>> attorney anyway. >> Well, an attorney is is another >> excuse me, but it does come in most times notorized. I mean, I I've never really notoriized it. >> Okay. It's notorized when it comes in

129
00:44:42.240 --> 00:44:59.760
>> and you know, and sometimes they'll come in and they'll say the owner is coming in to sign it. You know what I'm saying? And then have it. >> Okay. So then then if that's the case and it then If somebody fills this out online then before the application I'm

130
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:16.480
talking about not the checklist right talking about the mort adjustment application variance relief but any of these applications right what I'm understanding is that if they fill it out online they can do that then they have to print it out and actually get notoriized absolutely >> right but they could do that at the same

131
00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:32.880
time they bring it in because you can notoriize it >> I can notoriize but >> okay my situation I think a lot of times There is like I get a lot of plans now with a black seal. >> Okay. On them and that's the seal that's

132
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:48.560
legitimate is if it was, you know, a regular, >> right? But that's an engineering seal. >> Yeah, it's an engineer, >> right? That's different than a >> I don't know if you know maybe have that or something. >> That's a that's different than a notization, right? So, I guess what I'm what I'm saying is just thinking about

133
00:45:48.560 --> 00:46:05.040
the process, right? They don't. It's still >> it's still it's still easy for people to do this online. Right. They they would still have to print it out and bring it into you anyway. >> Correct. >> Right. When they do that, they have to get it notorized at that point. So, we can So, we leave the notoriization on

134
00:46:05.040 --> 00:46:21.200
there. They just have to get it notorized. >> Of course. >> Right. And maybe you want to put something in there explaining that an application that's been submitted online is not

135
00:46:21.200 --> 00:46:38.880
effective until it's submitted in person. So I can't submit this application and uh you know two days before the hearing bring sign it. It's got >> so I I think all we need to do is in the

136
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:55.119
we'll just take one of the the checklist the cover sheets rather how to complete the application right we add a step five right that says that the the application uh trying to figure out how to

137
00:46:55.119 --> 00:47:13.079
>> you could make it a checklist item >> where that applicant signature and the owner signature because they both >> the owner probably >> because they're typically not the ones that come

138
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:30.400
check >> and you probably put in a completed application which has been signed and notoriized by the applicant but but maybe say something that it's not I'm printing this out at home. I'm

139
00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:45.839
having Jason it and I'm going to send it in. It needs to be brought in in person. >> Doesn't have to be. I mean, you can mail it as long as you have original. >> Yeah, that's what I mean. >> So, it shouldn't even be reviewed for completeness unless it's signed by the

140
00:47:45.839 --> 00:48:01.520
applicant owner >> and the original signature. >> That should be where it's a completed. >> So, it's a checklist item, right? Then and anytime you >> Oh, it's the application right now. The final part of the application calls for

141
00:48:01.520 --> 00:48:17.680
the applicant signature, the owner signature, and the applicant certification by notary. So, we can put a second >> notary. >> We can put owner certification. That's it. >> That's it. But to make sure it's done

142
00:48:17.680 --> 00:48:35.119
doesn't have to be. >> No, or he had it in the instructions. That's fine, too. the instruction. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> When you get to the signature page, you sign.

143
00:48:35.119 --> 00:48:55.960
>> Yeah. And notoriize >> still required. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, we'll say >> so we'll add owners. We have applicant certification. We'll add owner certification >> and they both have to be Most

144
00:48:56.960 --> 00:49:12.640
important is the same. It's the same. >> Yeah, sometimes it is. I >> said most. >> Yeah, I understand the point there. But then I think on the u the cover sheet guide we just we should just point out and we can come up with verbage that we should come we should uh come up with

145
00:49:12.640 --> 00:49:30.640
verbies that says that the the applicants and the owner's certification is required something effective but needs to be signed in front cannot be signed needs to be signary. >> Okay. Okay. And the original

146
00:49:30.640 --> 00:50:19.839
has to be the original. >> Yes. the original must be >> doesn't have to send a letter anymore. We aren't changing any of that. >> All right. Number number nine brief explanation of application hearing

147
00:50:19.839 --> 00:50:39.440
process discussed as part of glossery. Then you guys committee does not see this as part of the check process but we'll outline it as part of planning for by the law. >> Well, I think I think we actually

148
00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:54.880
application hearing process we actually do that in this cover sheet. >> So, I think we can actually answer. >> Yeah, but the law doesn't >> No, I'm saying okay, I I understand your point, Jason, and I I think you're you're you're correct in you're

149
00:50:54.880 --> 00:51:11.599
responding to what we wrote here in red, >> right? But I think that's kind of negated by the fact that we actually have an application hearing process in the cover sheet. So we can basically just kind of cross that. >> I mean that's it's not this isn't really this is just a a working document. It's

150
00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:29.280
not nothing that would be part of the application. >> So is this number 11? Is that what we discussed first discussion? >> Correct. >> Yep. And we and we changed you talking about rewarding the public request. >> Yeah, we we did that. that was done

151
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:45.760
in the updated. >> That's so that's what >> the ordinance first. >> No, that's not what this is in reference to. This is in reference to the

152
00:51:45.760 --> 00:52:03.119
uh there there was a um there was a there was verbiage in here that mentioned uh public sewer which we don't have. So we we removed that from the checklist you're talking about earlier.

153
00:52:03.119 --> 00:52:48.480
>> Sorry. Sorry. All homes are or should be public school. >> Correct. So planes board uh or zoning board of adjustment application for subdivision. Let's take

154
00:52:48.480 --> 00:53:20.880
that as an example. Page 405, item number 13, which is highlighted. >> So, is the property question served by public water system? Is the property question served by public sewer system? So, that's what that number 11 is is related to because before I believe it

155
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:36.880
just said um is there public order? >> It didn't even say that. It just said public water yes or no. >> All right. >> And you check yes or no. >> Right. Right. Right. So should it say is it served or should be used like what you said before. Is it available?

156
00:53:36.880 --> 00:54:03.559
>> Well, I think that's that's the definition or the terminology used in served the property served whether it's connected or not service. So that that's what that number 11. >> Okay.

157
00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:26.960
>> Well, you know, for the rest of this landscape, we have to figure out where that goes. >> So, document we were just on board planning board zone board adjustment page 405 item uh

158
00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:43.680
uh 14F landscaping plan required >> so and that's true for all these other documents >> and then the scale >> yep so on the very front of the page uh

159
00:54:43.680 --> 00:55:07.760
if you take page 105 plan scale shall be such that all information and details are clear and legible. But in no case shall the scope be smaller than 1 in= 50 or 1 in >> I that that gives that gives me as a

160
00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:24.160
reviewer checklist to determine if the scale is appropriate and legible and size enough to be And and then the range as I said 50 that is the the small scale

161
00:55:24.160 --> 00:55:42.960
that's for the engineering plans for the architectural plan the 8 scale. >> Okay. I mean you know I just always have that big concern about about when >> I think that that would be a problem. >> Okay. Yeah. And and it wasn't the

162
00:55:42.960 --> 00:56:05.359
engineering it was the it was the architect. at the middle of the school. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Did we talk about how the explanation of how the escrow is determined?

163
00:56:05.359 --> 00:56:20.640
Is there some explanation on there of how they know how they can figure out how it will be? >> It's in the schedule. in these >> in these documents. >> Um

164
00:56:20.640 --> 00:56:41.119
what what specifically >> how the escrow is determined. >> Yeah. >> So u to Karen's point right it would be determined period. >> I'll tell you how it's done now. Everybody that comes in with an

165
00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:57.200
application they call me. They're going to ask me They send me the front page of their application >> telling me exactly what they're doing, what it's about, and I do it on another sheet. I break everything down, the

166
00:56:57.200 --> 00:57:13.760
escro through the application fees and the escrow. >> I put it on the their sheet, email it back to them, but they have the whole breakdown that I how I figured it out. That's how I do it now. >> Okay. >> You have never the applicant never figures out. Yes.

167
00:57:13.760 --> 00:57:30.799
Right. Right. >> And they never figure out the application fee either. >> So you can say in there secretary. >> Okay. >> In accordance with the >> I was say you should refer to the ordinance so that they take a look at it

168
00:57:30.799 --> 00:57:48.280
get an idea. >> Well sometimes they do you know they basically a lot of the attorneys may do that. >> I usually figure it out. Yeah. Yeah. But not >> not the home. >> It should be simplified.

169
00:57:57.599 --> 00:59:09.520
>> Yeah, that's what I was going to say. >> Escro is determined by the correct secretary. She references So, um, Well, no. It would just reference back to the link back to

170
00:59:09.520 --> 00:59:25.839
>> correct correct because we don't want to get tied in suggesting. >> Okay. >> Okay. and with the application and hearing process brief summary and I think we covered it somewhere else but I think it

171
00:59:25.839 --> 00:59:41.359
should be on everywhere that there should be a number seven after decision that the attorney Okay, so that has to be consistent on everything. >> Sorry, what was the number seven? >> Yeah, I think we were >> Yeah, we put that in somewhere but

172
00:59:41.359 --> 00:59:57.520
>> resolution prepared an a regular schedule meeting. So that'll be the suspension. >> Yeah, but the resolution is prepared by the attorney by the board attorney. >> I mean, yeah, but you know, the public doesn't know that and maybe they think

173
00:59:57.520 --> 01:00:40.079
their attorney prepares it. >> Yeah, I think it's part of that. I make one comment or recommendation >> in your discussing that owner certification with the applicant or signing. >> Yes. >> The owner should consent and they're consenting giving permission for people

174
01:00:40.079 --> 01:00:56.319
to enter the They should consent to the application and I've actually had that be a problem where the owner didn't sign a consent as you mentioned the tenant >> that approval without the owner's consent. >> Does notoriization

175
01:00:56.319 --> 01:01:11.680
>> but this just doesn't say it. It should just say that they're consenting to the application. They're just consenting. You're saying >> well by filing and signing of this application the owner get gives permission to the bian professionals and board members to come upon and inspect

176
01:01:11.680 --> 01:01:27.040
the premises. Does that not cover it? >> I think they should be consenting to the actual application to that. >> This is typically two different certifications. you kind to edit, but the owner should be

177
01:01:27.040 --> 01:01:43.520
consenting. >> So, just separate that paragraph. Be a separate paragraph that says the owner's doing. >> Yeah, I would I keep it separate from that first. >> Okay. So, >> yeah. >> No, I'm just agree. I'm just curious.

178
01:01:43.520 --> 01:02:00.160
Would it would it be similar to the verbiage in that first paragraph or be completely different? >> It could be similar, but it would probably say by by filing or by signing this application because the owner's problem if the owner did

179
01:02:00.160 --> 01:02:15.760
different, right? So you think about situations where like say your supermarket is owned by >> sure >> a big group but the applicant coming in is the actual supermarket. But the owner should be consenting if you're changes on the property. So she'll probably say

180
01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:32.559
something by signing up this application in order consents to the application material. >> Okay. Um about we can I guess send Andy

181
01:02:32.559 --> 01:02:48.319
>> I so there's actual language in Cox but now that Cox is online you have to go online to get any attachments anymore. So >> shocking. >> That's why I was flipping through it to see what the actual language is, but I

182
01:02:48.319 --> 01:03:13.040
don't give it to Andy to send. >> Okay. So just add >> But then the owner and the applicant are both >> right. Not only >> I mean that

183
01:03:13.040 --> 01:03:33.200
they want to say more specific that's why I said but I think it should say >> yeah okay >> I mean she's doing her job protecting the world I get that just scare

184
01:03:34.480 --> 01:03:52.559
All right. Okay. >> I'll talk to Andy final. >> All right. >> Anything else? >> Yeah, but we'll go through this all again this exercise again. >> All right. So, that's that's my question. So, we have so we have

185
01:03:52.559 --> 01:04:21.760
several items that need to get updated, moved around, whatever it is. And then we also have some legal I mean speak >> on a highale it's not a month >> okay >> because the May meeting is very early

186
01:04:21.760 --> 01:04:40.480
because and all that kind of stuff >> okay I will talk to him again right now I know he's in commissioner hearings which is why he's not here but I will We can get you something next week. >> Yeah, we'll we'll send over what we'll do is we'll

187
01:04:40.480 --> 01:04:58.240
we'll talk to >> I expect to see him tomorrow. I think >> you know in fairness there's no rush. >> I mean we'd like to get it we'd like to get it done as soon as possible but

188
01:04:58.240 --> 01:05:12.319
we'd like to get it right. That's the main thing is getting it right not getting it done soon. So >> so document that we review in May

189
01:05:12.319 --> 01:05:54.079
highlight changes that are If you could make a note >> put it in blue and put underline >> guess I'll close this part of the agenda. Do we have any new business tonight? Okay. Our next

190
01:05:54.079 --> 01:06:11.480
meeting is on May 11th. So it is early. So second. All in favor? Any oppos?