I now call to order the regular meeting of the Township of Morris County Planning Board for November 17, 2025. The legal notice required in accordance with the Open Public Meetings Act has been satisfied and a statement certifying same will be executed. You please rise and join me in the pledge of
allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Thank you to call the role. >> Here >> Mr. Rabbit >> here. Miss Murphy >> here. Mr. Benois >> here. >> Mr. >> here. >> Mr. B >> here. >> Mr. Warner >> here.
>> Mr. V >> here. Mr. Warner, you want to >> certainly chairman have to >> uh this will be capital project review night, I guess. Uh this was a capital
project review for the township of Mars. Uh involved a project at a certain address that we're very familiar with and currently located at ourselves, uh 50 Woodland Avenue. It was an installation of a temporary storage pod. Uh and uh the uh board did find
unanimously uh that the uh project was not inconsistent with the master plan, a reasonable exercise at the township's legal authority and actually did not have a single recommendation. Uh so with respect to the installation
of that uh storage p. So hopefully it's an accurate memorialization of the board's determination on review and we'll find out momentarily. Well, George isn't here. >> Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Has anyone else found anything?
>> Okay. Can I uh accept I'll have to entertain a motion to >> I'll move. >> Is there a second? >> I'll I'll move that we um that we accept this. Oh, it was okay. >> Second. >> Oh, I'll second them. >> I'll just vote if you want me to. Whatever.
>> Do you call the roles? >> Is there in order? >> Uh yes, >> Mr. Flowers. >> Yes. >> Murphy. >> Yes. >> Mr. Benis. >> Yes. >> Migia. >> Yes. >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Okay.
Moving on to our public hearing. So, we have another courtesy review. >> Yes. This is a uh as stated capital C capital project review night. Uh this is the Mars County Park Commission. And
just a reminder for the board uh that the capital project review is a function of the planning board whenever the governing body or any other public agency having jurisdiction uh over the uh location character or extent of a
capital project. Uh before any action taken necessitating the expenses or public funds, uh we as a planning board are given an opportunity uh to review the project, make recommendations if any in conjunction with the master plan uh
and uh that applies to all public agencies as well as the state, county, uh and our municipalities. So hence the Mars County planning to meet Mars County Park Commission is here this evening to make a presentation for our review. It
is a public hearing. So I will go through the formalities of swearing in our witness or witnesses but maybe we can hear from them first and I'll also swear in our engineers as well. >> Thank you.
>> So go ahead swear them in. Oh. Oh. Are you both going to be testifying? >> We could. I might be. >> You might. Okay. Just in case if you both raise your right hand as well as our engineer, do all of you swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and and nothing but the truth.
>> I do. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Back to you, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay. Uh do you want to proceed because we're ready to start? >> Sure. Um just give ourselves a quick intro. >> Yes. Thank you. >> I'm Dave Elmer, executive director of the Morris County Court Commission. uh and working with Morris County. Uh my
name is Steve Fong from Canal Engineering. >> Um and if I just your your license in the state of New Jersey as an as a civil engineer. >> That's correct. >> Okay. And your license is in good standing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. And I'm suspected. Okay.
>> I will accept your credentials. Go ahead. >> Thank you. Please proceed. >> Yeah. Um, so let me just go over this project here and show you guys up copy of the plan. But, um, we're working at Morris County Park. Um, Morris Town.
>> Um, could you use the microphone? It's not that I think we can hear you, but that it is being recorded. So, >> okay. Yeah. Um, yeah. So the Louiswis Morris Park um most of the work is being done near
Menum Road um at the at the cultural center the uh maintenance building and the Sunrise Lake B house which is Menum Township and if I may this is a a set of plans uh
that is the last revised date September 24th 2025 >> on the right there top right >> 24 >> yes okay So that the board does have uh these plans and they were provided
we'll uh uh I guess we've only had them less than 10 days. So >> we we'll refer to these plans as A1. >> Okay. >> And then if you if you go through the sheets just reference which sheet you're at. >> Do we not have an easel for them to use? >> What's that?
>> Don't we have an eel for them to use? >> It's okay. >> Okay. probably not going to be true. I just >> Yeah. Yeah. I hope not. Um yeah, so we have a couple sites. Um the original project covered five different sites,
but we only moved forward with three. Um two of which are in Morris Township and under your jurisdiction. >> And this is a septic system replacement project. Correct. >> That's correct. Septic it's a septic system replacement project. Um and we'll get into the details as we flip to
through the next two sheets. number sepic plan two number >> the drawing name is sheet sepic plan two sheet sheet nine of 25 >> so as we're And there's a we're
replacing the septic system. The existing existing septic system is further down the hillside over here, which we're going to uh demolish at the end of this construction. But as part of this construction for the new septic system, there's two main components. Um we have the disposal fields, which is
where all the um cleaned water will be pumped to and infiltrated into the ground after being treated. And then we have the actual treatment system. Um the treatment system contains three separate uh septic tanks. Um and then there's one reactor which does most of the filtering
and treatment. Um and associated with that septic system is a shed um that is required by the manufacturer. Um it contains some electrical equipment um blowers um pumps and then it also has um
sodium bicarbonate which they use to to treat the uh the septic. Um and then associated with that we're just you know running electrical lines to and from the from the tanks out to the field. And that's pretty much the gist of the
design. Uh the location of the cultural center, it is set back over 400 ft from Menum Road. Um and the distance between the shed and the building right now is approximately 50 ft. It's just under um
are there any questions on this plan for the area? >> Uh just maybe a question for Mr. Warner. I much of the emphasis is as I read the the materials that we got the maps and the and the TCC report dealt with the shed, but we're really looking at the
entire septic replacement plan and the shed is part of that. The shed is the accessory structure being added site plan component um which to obtain building permits for the sub code
officials with various purchases >> uh requires engineering signoff that being zoning and engineering and so that appropriate mechanism was to do the courtesy review okay on the the capital improvement side of things here in front of you tonight. So yes, we are talking
about the whole project, but had there not been an accessory structure of the shed, it just as easily could have probably worked through construction uh permits without needing to see this light of day. >> Just out of curiosity, how old is the
existing septic system that is being replaced? >> So the building is built in 1929. Okay. We've been still trying to find what may have taken place between 29 and now. >> Okay. Um, there are no other locations around the cultural center where a
septic could have been placed other than actually we're replacing the new one. >> It's in a very odd spot off the side of the hill. So, if you looked up from Mendum Road looking up at the cultural center, you wouldn't have placed that. You probably could never have placed that in this day and age. >> Yeah. >> Uh, so we haven't found any other type
of system. Um, the building was built as a spa in 1929 >> for certain ailments of the time. Um there was 34 individual rooms. We don't know the capacity at that point in time. >> That's the cultural center. >> That's the cultural center. Right.
>> Okay. >> So you're pumping from these tanks that you're installing into the field. >> That's right. >> And then the field, you said treatment. It's just dispersal, right? Or do you have to treat it before it even gets to the field? >> It's treated at the tanks that are
located >> Oh, it is. >> Yeah. >> Okay. It's not like your home septic system. >> No, no, no. There it's being stored in these first two tanks to separate out the solids. And then this middle system here is called a amphome reactor. Um,
and then it's filtering through and that's how it's being treated with bacteria and also through filtering through little air and then it's being pumped from this last tank out to the fields. >> It's what we consider an advanced wastewater technology for a septic system. >> Yeah. So you you would see it on
commercial grade installations or um larger residential that would be at a max capacity of say 2,000 gallons per day. >> U so so you're you're you're removing those solids and then you're taking that
pre-treated ephilin running it through a biological process to treat it before it becomes a post post-treated effic. >> Yeah. So, it's not unlike the sewer system, right? >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's a boiled down
version and the intent is that it's still a septic system, so it's not a full sanitary processing plant, but you're you're potentially going to see higher loads in peak in certain peaks. And this type of uh technology allows you to ensure that you don't have an
effluent that has too much of that waste product in it. >> Yeah. So some of the chemicals or whatever is needed for that treatment will be in the shed. >> Yeah. So the the shred the shed is I believe primarily electrical components and other perturances that make sure that that operates properly dosing and
other things. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. And just I guess to add on to that, we did go through the New Jersey DP treatment works application approval. So we have that permanent hand if you guys need it as well.
Is there a lighting and security on the shed or there doesn't need to be because there's it's it's within the within the park? >> Well, and it's within the footprint of the building as well. So, this is a back parking area. So, there's lights on the
building itself and then internally there's lighting of course, you know, treatment, but >> the building is not going to be lit up or anything. >> Oh, no, no, no. It's with all the existing building lights that we have now. >> Okay. Yeah. Any other questions?
>> I just want to make sure uh we've covered the uh memo all the questions and potential recommendations made. >> Uh since my colleague is not seated to my right, >> she uh >> she she said she figured you could
handle it. >> She gave me a chance to talk. >> She should have known better by now. I'll have to give her some legal advice never to rely on me again because that must be confusing. Um the the uh reason for the proposed shed we have as well as the reason for the proposed location. I
think I guess we got that as well. Uh present the elevation drawings of potential colors. Maybe you could someone can address that. So uh I mean I I think I have it memorized. The shed is a 10 x 12. I call it an Away shed but
not coming from a way. Roof shingles are 20-year life expectancy. Uh roof shingles brown color brown and the building itself is a beige color almost to match the existing cultural center building which you know
looks like it's stucco and and ba beige at that that deep darkness. Um the roof load is uh loaded for snow load in in this area. Um there are um louvers
and fans to keep air flowing through the space. Uh it's on a 12 in concrete slab. Um it has I think it's four uh 4x4 pressuret treated foundation runners. Um uh and it's insulated as well.
and provide information on other equipment that may be any other equipment that may be located above ground. Yeah, there'll be a junction box um between the reactor and the the shed
that's more just for controls and um it's really for I believe they explain it to me as like an explosion proof method to to break the two systems. >> Any ballards for protection purposes parking lot? Um mainly in front of the
shed. Um and there might be a couple above the tanks. >> I'm sorry above >> actually sorry there will be none above the tanks. The all the tanks are u have h20 loaded um arrated covers. So there you can park on top of them. So
>> so just it's a one-way traffic around the front of the building and the back of the building. The ballers will be as you're coming around the side of the building before you pass the 10lex walk. So at this location >> yeah we also yeah we also have it near
the reactor as you mentioned the other above ground features there will be one spot that we won't be taking away one parking spot for that um that will be the control uh junction box and then there also be a a vent for air
ventilation >> and the one parking spot that will be lost I'm assuming be relocated elsewhere but I don't We put it >> some folks will have to look for a wall for a park system. So that's a good
thing. >> You're on the record saying that. >> And any noise related to the uh post construction, >> you'll you'll hear hear the pumps come on. Um obviously with the park and it
being a county system, we're also insulated by a number of trees around the area. Um, but you you'll hear the pumps and we'll come on very infrequently only for a couple hours just to pump it out to the field. But >> that's not that's an onsite sound evaluation.
>> Yeah. >> Right. And that covers I believe the uh TTC memo. I don't think there's any other reports or memos. I >> did have one question is another
question. Is this being done to just replace and upgrade the existing septum system or are you expecting some enhanced usage and increased use of >> It's a great question. So actually the funding for this project the other two at in the park one of our parks in Jefferson and one
more park in the pinnon were American recovery program funding uh for wastewater treatment enhancements. We had a study done a number of years ago on half of our 54 septics in the park system and we identified um septics that we were pumping more frequently. Uh and
this happens to be one of the six that we were pumping more frequently. The c the use of the cultural center is remaining the same. It's our commission's headquarters. I don't foresee us moving another time during my lifetime at least. We've moved from the failing to arburetum. Um, as you're probably aware, we do have an auditorium, but it's already currently
rented out kind of in a in a peace bill fashion, but we don't see any additional increased uh use for the site. Okay. >> Even though we had to build a 30,000 gallon. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. The the other sheet, I guess,
>> yeah, I guess we'll we'll go over the other side as well. So, is that the uh Morris County's um Lewis Morris maintenance yard maintenance building? >> That's sheet 11. >> Sheet 11 and 25.
>> Okay. >> Um pretty much the same setup, but it it's a smaller system. And at uh for this system, we don't need a shed. Mainly due to the equipment, the size of the equipment. Um
in this system it's two underground tanks, one reactor um and then a much smaller disposable field associated with it. Um we still will we will still have the air vent and the junction box um out here um closer close to one of the uh
fences surrounding the property. Um so as a point of reference, the entrance to the park is here. Route 24 road is here. And this is the maintenance shop that you can see just off of Menum Road on your way into the main entrance more
park. >> And then we're drawing electric from the existing uh electrical power for the maintenance yard. Um and the control panel will be just outside of the maintenance building, but all right next
to the building. No additional structures. No operational conflicts with the location. >> We can believe this is a 1977 >> septic replacement. That's the original maintenance shop that was constructed on site.
>> No increased use or capacity or you know increase any other than it is at this point in time. >> Um just a quick question. Is this the maintenance uh uh shop that's on the way up to the dog park? You pass on the right hand side. Just trying to get my
mental model. >> Any other questions? >> No. >> Yeah. Okay. I guess we're okay. I uh >> since it's a public uh hearing, notwithstanding, >> right, >> the der of the uh we should open and close the
question, >> right? Okay. >> Okay. I move we open public hearing testimony. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I move we close the public.
>> All in favor? >> We have a lot of fun up here. >> Fair opportunity for questioning and comment has taken place. >> Okay. the the the um if uh nothing further further and uh somewhat interesting not
having my colleague to my right because uh the uh part of the determination to be made is is it not inconsistent with the master plan. If I recall correctly, uh the master plan certainly speaks to um having appropriate infrastructure and
facilities, utilities, etc., septic uh sewer, what have you. So I I would imagine uh that my colleague to my right would advise you that there's nothing in with respect to this project that would be inconsistent and therefore
the project is not inconsistent with the master plan. Um and uh it is up to you uh to advise whether you have any recommendations that might make it even further consistent with the master plan or not.
and I'll await your deliberations. >> Well, I guess from my point of view, I without being able to cite specific parts of the master plan, certainly the environmental aspects improving old septic systems are certainly consistent with, you know, not only not inconsistent, but consistent with the
master plan. And a small shed added as an accessory structure is a very small price to pay for improving or small additions for improving that that whole septic design. So I would certainly agree that it would be not inconsistent with the with the master plan
and I can't think of any other recommendations seem to have covered it. The colors and the I think it's sounds great. >> Sounds it sounds like a big improvement particularly the cultural center. >> Yes. >> It's appropriate to make a motion to
approve this and to recommend that it is not inconsistent with the master. >> No recommendations. No further recommendation. >> I'll second. >> She's writing names. >> Roll call. >> Mr. Alleso. >> Yes. >> Miss Van order. >> Yes. >> Mr. Flowers.
>> Yes. >> Mr. Rabbit. >> Good use of the ARP money. Yes. >> Miss Murphy. >> Yes. >> Mr. Ben. >> Yes. >> Mr. Ria. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Thank you very much. Thank you for luck. >> Thank you. Resolution for the next meeting. >> Right. >> And just memorialize that determination. >> I did. I believe we can move on. >> Okay. Um anything from the legislative
committee? Nothing. Okay. >> Uh uh again we see no public for public comments. So we don't >> Can we go back to the legislative question for a minute? Sure. >> There was a proposal some years ago made
by Kathy Wilson to change the notification period and I I think that's kind of been in oance forever. I don't know if that is something that's ever going to come up again or if there's something that needs to be done as a result. Um it came up when we were doing
the uh actually doing the catch road. Um and there was some I don't want to say disagreement. there was some information as to exactly who had to be noticed at that time and that was a re that was a redevelopment which was different. So um we have had that discussion and we again
would like to see the state I don't know if you saw Kathy Wilson's oped in the paper about it. >> Yes. No but I think that's what you're referring to a few years ago there was a push for the change in the state >> but again so it's something that we will continue to try to get the state we do feel that it >> well it's not something we can do
independently. >> We we have done it independently. We sorry >> we have done some things independently in terms of notifications and and SP and >> so we are we do more notification than the state requires. >> Yes. >> Well >> in that one instance
>> we acting at the plan acquiring other private applic >> so so uh the answer is it's still in the bands at the state level as far as we know. But we're still >> it's yeah we're still trying to get it through and I think it's instead of 10
days it's 21 days >> I believe that was >> and what was the other piece it was notification >> the 200 ft to 400 ft notification that's a lot >> y I disagree with that one >> right so that that's why there were certain things that came up and it was
not >> sounds like a lot of state everybody's time >> yeah we probably will never go for it actually Okay. >> And I guess we have no need for a close session at this point. >> No need for
>> I am looking over I have one other question if I may. >> Um >> nobody second that motion. >> Second voted on something. Uh my question has to do with uh master
planning which is due in 2027. >> Uh here we are at the end of 2025. Um and we've talked from time to time about do getting started and doing certain segments ahead of others and whatnot. I just I just want to ask a
general question of the of the planning board. you know, we wanted to do a complete redo and not keep referring back to 1994. >> Um, so my my thought is we could do it a number of ways. We could take it section
by section. We could spin off little subcommittees to look at certain sections. We could do a whole bunch of things that would get us started down the road or we could just defer everything until 2027. So my question is, are there any opinions on how we
might want to do that? It does require funding from the township. So, there's that. Has to go into a budget. >> Y >> um but I'm I'm a little bit antsy about getting it off the ground. And there are we did agree that we were going to add some new sections like sustainability
and you know there were a couple >> on the climate >> there were a couple there were a couple of other things that were new categories. >> Um some of those can probably be written in advance almost with standard largely standard boiler plate to be
tweaked a little bit. So, I'm just I'm just curious to know what everybody's thought is about that. >> Well, I had hoped by this time I talked about it, a couple months ago, several weeks ago that we'd start to get together and ask Liz and others, but to
get a plan for plan for the plan. And then we've had additional Yeah. Well, no, not a concept, a plan for a plan for how we come up with the plan. Yeah. Anyways, uh you know and then with the you know things have come up including with the affordable housing and we haven't had a chance but I'm
>> hoping before the end of the year then I will get chance to meet with with Tim and our staff and and Liz and everyone and and kind of an idea of what they think might be the process should be and then we can discuss that as we go into >> it. Just seems like we have a a bit of a
lull. I mean we're not really busy. We could be knocking some of this stuff out uh if we had a plan for the plan, >> right? But I think you know like a schedule for what we want to do what we want to do and you know roughly you know the schedule for how we want to do it which I think you know as you said as we
talked about last year it should get kicked off get started in 2026. Yeah, >> because that gives us what 18 months if you know, >> right? >> I'm willing to be on a subcommittee. >> What? >> I'm willing to be on a subcommittee. >> That's Yeah, that would be >> Well, that is one approach. We could
certainly do that. >> Yeah. And I >> um could I just say I think that um probably the very first step is to just confirm with the uh with the administ you know with the town committee and
uh with Tim Quinn that this is a finan that that the basically there's a scope of service that's going to be required. It's probably going to be an RFP and all these other things. So I mean it has to be budgeted and I assume it is budgeted and I think that's you know that's the first question is is it budgeted? What's
the timeline on getting that moving? Because we could do a lot of little committee work and it might be kind of busy work, but really my understanding is it's going to be a professional planner that manages all aspects of this, right? And we might want to just >> get the confirmation that that the
township is planning to do this and get a confirmation of what the timeline is for getting that planner designated and moving. >> Right. Well, there is an advantage if you spread it out over time. You don't have anything coming in one >> budget year. You can spread it out over
a couple of years and then it's a little less painful overall. Still cost the same amount, one assumes, but >> but it doesn't have to be all in one fell swoop. So, I just don't I I'm hoping that we don't decide to wait until January 27 to figure out that we >> No, we're definitely We've talked about
that. We're not waiting. >> Yeah. >> I think as as Rick had said that the intention all along was to start the process in 26. >> Yeah. Okay, >> I'll second the motion. All >> in favor?
Thank you. >> All right, we're out of here.