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I now call to order the regular meeting of the Township of Morris Planning Board for June 1st, 2026. Um, the legal notice required in accordance with the Open Public Meetings Act has been satisfied and a statement certifying the same will be executed. Can you please rise and

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join me for the Pledge of Allegiance? I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

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>> You okay, Ron, could you take the roll call, please? >> Mr. Allesa, >> here. >> Miss Vaner >> here. >> Mr. Nun >> here. >> Mr. Rabbits >> here. Miss Murphy >> here. >> Mr. Benois >> here. Mr. Bone >> here,

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>> Miss Grigglia >> here, >> Mr. Bry >> here. >> We have our township engineer, Joe Voyage, >> here. >> Our board attorney, Mr. Warner, >> here, >> and our board planner, Miss Laney, >> here. >> And I'm Ryan Kerpat, board secretary.

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>> Thank you. Okay, first item is the uh a rather brief agenda tonight would be the consideration of the meeting, the meeting minutes for the March 16th meeting. Any comments on the minutes? >> Mr. Mr. Chairman, I just said one comment. The the one there's two bullets

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that have the names of people that participate in the meeting from the applicant and a third bullet where there's nothing there. I'm thinking either we should have three names or two names or two bullets. >> What? >> Third um third professional end up

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testifying. So, I'll remove that bullet. >> Yeah. That way nobody says, "Oh, well that third person in there and I didn't remove the >> I thought maybe you couldn't think of the name or something." >> Oh, okay. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh, any other comments or corrections?

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>> I had to compete with George, so I had >> Well, yeah, I was surprised it came up from somebody other than George or you just beat him to it. I guess >> George is upset. >> Maybe that. >> Yeah, he was ready. He was ready. if it helps. I also count I caught a formatting error with my page numbers in

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the header, so I'll adjust that as well. >> Oh, okay. Thank you. I'll entertain a motion to accept the minutes. >> I move we accept the minutes. >> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I >> Thank you. minutes. Thank you.

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>> Okay, moving on. Our other matters. Now, we don't have any applications uh before tonight, but I did want to hold a meeting, right? So that we could talk a little bit about the master plan since uh and I want to we've had the three sessions so far, public four sessions, and many of you who have participated,

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which is good. But at this point, I wanted Liz to uh kind of summarize for those who haven't been there or those who didn't make all three sessions, many people, um summarize what happened and where we are and briefly where we're going to go and get some thoughts from

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the planning board on on uh on you where we're going from here. So, >> right. Thank you. Up to you. >> Thank you. So, as noted, we had three meetings and some people were at all three, some people came to two, and some people, you know, came to one. So, we

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appreciate everybody who came out. Um, I think it's refreshing for all of the professionals to be working on anything aside from affordable housing and it's nice to Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. Um, and it gives us an opportunity to focus,

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you know, on on other issues. Um, and writeups and um, of the meetings and videos have been uploaded and are in the process of being uploaded for all three. We are also going to do a more thorough sort of bulletointed write up, but um

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Nikquille, my colleague, is out of town, so he's g I'm going to enlist him to do it when he gets back. Um but I wanted to talk today just a little bit on the sort of what I've been calling macro topics, which are sort of very broad terms of things that came up repeatedly. So this

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is not an exhaustive list of everything we heard. we do have that categorized and that'll be you know acknowledged but it this isn't everything. Um and I'm also going to read them and they're in no particular order. So it doesn't mean that I mention because I am going to

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mention mobility first that that is the most important issue. It's just how I happen to reflect on it today. Um and a couple of caveats that I I think certainly the subcommittee recognized which is that the attendance skewed

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older and I think that that is a bias that we are trying to we're going to have to try to engage with some of the younger families, younger residents just to make sure that we are hearing from everybody um and not you know any one

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segment of the population has more sort of weight um than others. Um but the first sort of macro topic that came up repeatedly was mobility and connectivity. Um people want alternatives to driving. They want to be able to feel that they can safely walk

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and bike um to places, you know, including from neighborhood to neighborhood, from their house to parks and open spaces, from their house to commercial areas, schools, other destinations, other towns specifically, well, Morristown and Morris Plains were

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specifically mentioned. Um and so I think that's something clearly that the master plan is going to have to take a very careful close look at. Um certainly the the trails system and the sidewalk connection. I know the transportation advisory committee has worked on these

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issues and probably has a lot of good research already. Um but we'll, you know, look at identifying gaps and potential connections. Um and you know, of course, there's always multiple aspects of this issue. Um, you know, for

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example, when the um affordable housing development on Southgate Parkway, that ordinance was before the TC, a lot of residents who live near there were complaining that congestion has gotten so bad because of the bike lanes. But if you were to believe everybody who came to the public meetings, they love the

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bike lanes park, right? So, you know, you just you can never please everyone, I guess, is the point. And similarly with sidewalks, I know that a lot of people wanted better sidewalks, more sidewalks, and then there are people say, "I don't want to have to maintain the sidewalk in front of my house." So,

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there's always just this balancing of the equities that we're going to have to be careful, you know, to to to consider. Um, another thing that was mentioned repeatedly was some sort of a hop on hop off bus, particularly for seniors. Um,

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you know, it it was called a trolley system. something that where people could circulate within the town or circulate maybe to to downtown well Morristown um center without having to drive themselves.

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Um the second macro topic was improvement to commercial corridors. Um upgrading existing commercial corridors, Madison Avenue, Speedwell, Mount Kimell, Handover. We're going to need to delve into these, you know, these corridors.

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take a close look at them, what the trends are, the vacancies. I think we'll have to revisit the Madison Avenue corridor plan that was done. Um there's also, for example, in on Madison Avenue, I mean there are these um soft sites that we really need to take a look at.

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Metife, Madison Hotel, the medical office park. Um and I think one of the questions that was raised, and I think it's a really good one, is what types of businesses can we reasonably attract in the township? you know, where somebody would choose to be in the

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township rather than in Morristown, you know, because Morristown, I think, was cited repeatedly as an asset. It's nice. It's so nice to have that that vibrant sort of downtown so close, but it could also be a competitor for attracting

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people to locate here, not, you know, businesses. Um, but a lot of people said they wanted to walk to to be able to walk to stores and restaurants, which I think something that we are going to have to look at again is the B11 zoning, which is sort

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of closer to some of those residential neighborhoods. Um, branding came up more than once that people were saying, you know, we don't know, not who we are, but it's it just that we don't have a a brand. um the township doesn't as maybe

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other other um you know maybe Montlair does or Morristown or some of these other communities. They did people did talk though about the rich historic stock and of places and buildings and that that could perhaps help. Um, another issue and and

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Linda Murphy has brought this up um, a couple times which is these large corporate office parks and office obviously we found that in this most recent round of affordable housing they were ripe for redevelopment because they're not many of them are not fully

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tenanted and um I think that is going to be an important aspect too that what other you know if office parks are not you know not I shouldn't say a thing of the past So that's not true. But if they're waning, what is else can they

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become aside from housing because there's got to be other alternatives. And I think that's something that we really should take a close look at. And that's not unrelated to architectural design and aesthetics of new development. And that was also brought up repeatedly and including the

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enforcement of the existing standards. Um sustainability uh trees and preservation of the tree canopy. uh composting. This is on three sustain sorry three my macro topic three sustainability and

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climate preparing for the climate preparing for climate change. I think people talked a lot about flooding. There were a lot of concerns about infrastructure, the um electric grid, storm water management, roadways,

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um you know, and it was kind of intertwined climate change with we've had so much development, how are we going to be able to handle this going forward? So, they're they're sort of go hand in hand actually. Um but I the the

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concerns about the electric grid were interesting to me. I just had that is something that's sort of a thing that people now are talking about a lot not just in Morris Township. So I thought that was interesting. Um the four the fourth macro topic

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housing diversity that people um want opportunities for young families or younger people to move into town that they are not priced out especially people who may have grown up here as well as seniors to be able to stay in the community um without having to

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leave the area uh in order to afford to stay. And one particular thing that was brought up is accessory dwelling units which is something certainly on a state level the state has been talking about for a few years. um traffic that is a a obviously

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congestion, traffic safety, people mentioned specific intersections. There was a concern, you know, and I think in the age of GPS that we all have, bypass routes are are so easy now because your phone will tell you, oh, there's this

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traffic, just take a, you know, go down these local roads. And so what people are finding is, you know, they're going through residential neighborhoods and people were would like to see some traffic calming or or something so that there's not traffic that was intended for major

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corridors is is is being sort of rerooed through residential neighborhoods. Um macro topic six, uh diversity, um diversity of population, um neighborhoods, uh building stock were all cited. And the concept of each

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neighborhood having its own sort of identity and I, for lack of a better word, brand was sort of interesting to me that people identify perhaps with their neighborhood more than anything else, which I thought was a an a very interesting aspect to to Morris Township

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and maybe something that should be sort of highlighted in the plan. Um, that those are the main topics. Um, I'm sure I missed something, but I think that was kind of the the big ones.

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>> Any thoughts on from on from those of you who attended or didn't attend? And and one question I would ask is, is there anything that any the ones that did attend? Anything that surprised you in particular that when that came up? >> I think the trolley was the biggest surprise.

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>> Hop on, hop on, hop off. Uh that one I hadn't heard before and you know and it from a broad perspective it's you know it sounds wonderful but I I think the devil is in the details with that. Some of the other things that I I thought uh I heard multiple times because I was at

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all three. I I did hear u um people didn't want those large data centers in the town and they didn't want any ice facilities in the town. So I we that did come up multiple times. So, um, I don't

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think there was anything else, Liz, that you missed. Mobility, I think, was far and away, even though it was your number one, I think, was the far and away the biggest one for for folks and and and traffic common. >> Mhm. >> Was was there >> Yeah, Joe. >> I I wasn't at any of the sessions. Um,

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was one of the things that caught my ear was the idea that Mars Township wants to be Mars Town. I mean like like we're in my mind a bedroom community like we're not a city is there like we're not are people suggesting that we turn into

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>> No, I don't think so. I think the idea >> to get to walk to Mortown everybody was pretty common people like the fact that one of the things they like about that we're close to Morristown. >> Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. And then but I've heard several people say specifically we don't want to be

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Morristown. But yet but but no there also were people who said we should look at merging with Marstown. >> Yes. >> So there there was both. I >> I don't mean the merging so much as like turning Mars Township into Marstown would >> No. No. There was definitely probably

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even I think even those who wanted to you were advocating possibly looking at merging with Morristown didn't want to be like Morristown. They wanted to retain the residential kind of that the feel that that's >> Was there any suggestions on how we would accomplish housing? I mean other

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than building multi-story apartment complexes. >> Uh generally I think that people did not want they were saying they didn't want multi multi multi multi-story complexes. >> You talk about condos so that you know affordability for younger families. I'm indicating

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>> the only thing the the only the only specifics that I heard as Liz mentioned were the ADUs. Other than that, they didn't I don't I didn't hear any specific >> I think they're looking for affordable single family home >> but they didn't want high density housing. >> Right.

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>> So there was that >> that's a little bit of a challenge. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Right. >> Unless they could create more land that we didn't know we had. >> Mr. chairman. I I was at all three and was in fact a facilitator um of the three different groups. They they presented us with a bit of a dichotomy

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as Joe points out because they want more u mobility and walkability with conveniences along the way. In other words, I want to walk down the street, maybe pop in and get a cup of coffee and then continue my walk. uh how do you zone for a you know a B11 business in

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the in the middle or in proximity to a residential area? And and the thought was they they generally were okay with the affordable housing plan but would like to see more single family homes developed. There's

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really it's a challenge for us because our zoning is such now that you we have some really large lot areas 5 acres, 3 acres, 2 acres even where I am is a 8 acre that's a pretty good size lot and

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but um but we're out of land essentially unless we do something different with the zoning. So, it we we're going to have to put some more thought and perhaps a deeper dive topic >> uh to follow with um more input from the public on those subjects.

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>> Folks who have the large lots sometimes love them and sometimes they want to subdivide them. So, we're getting, you know, we get a lot of applications coming here where people want to subdivide um a larger lot for a variety of reasons. could be that they want a family member to live next door or

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they're trying to, you know, fund their piggy bank for retirement or, you know, any other number of reasons. And so we're we're in the middle of a uh of a planning challenge to try to accommodate as many of those wishlist

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items as we can while still maintaining the suburban nature of our community and the fact that it's largely single family homes. even now with all the affordable housing that's gone in. >> And if I could add to that, um

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I think people generally understood high density housing is coming and they understood that the projects that we have are coming already are coming to you. >> Sorry. But I think they have a hard time

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envisioning what that's going to look like because it's still a few years down the road. So on the one hand, they want to continue the residential nature. Then they want to be able to have um you know um single family homes or

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affordable homes for new families. what's coming, I think, was hard for them to realize and to to assimilate into what their thoughts could be from the future. I have a hard time with that as well. You know, we've approved projects for Madison Avenue and Columbia

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Turnpike and over by the over by the highway and I just envisioned this project that I'm not going to like, but we're going to have them. And so what we do around that coming up, I think people had a hard

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time trying to assimilate into what their vision is of the township. That made any sense? >> Yeah. >> Well, I was just going to say, Joe, on the whole issue of in almost every session, everybody loved the fact that

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we have Marstown, but it did come through about the branding or our own identity. And I've been hearing that since I got on the committee. You know, who is Mars Township? And we all know when they do the like when Marstown gets named one of the top five best

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communities, you know, on the east coast, a big part of that is due to the township. So, it's it's kind of this tug at we want to be we want our own identity, but we do kind of like the stuff that we get from Marstown. And

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we've never yet on the township committee kind of taken that step of saying well who is Mars Township and there are re there are positive things about it but there are also other pieces to that that having an area like Marstown help enhances our residents

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with a lot of stuff. So there was a lot of discussion on that. We're you know trying to figure that piece out. you know, to the mayor's point and because as long as I've been on the committee, that's something that's been near and dear to me is is, you know, how do we put Mars Township on the map when

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everybody knows from grade school historic Marstown? And I think that the the um looking at the new master plan, it would be an excellent opportunity to go out to the residents to find, you know, what is it? What do we want to be?

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And I think if we can incorporate that into the new master plan, I think that'll go a long way to helping the township committee and future governing bodies to devise something and and and move us in that direction. So I think that that's a very key issue.

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>> Another interesting thing just that we learned because at one of the tables they asked is how did Mars Township become this big circle around Marstown? Like why who would have done that? and and even I was new to me the real reason

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um thank god Tim Quinn was there because it's from the like 1800s or whatever it was all Mars Township it was all the Mars Plains Marstown Mars Township and it was a water issue >> it was over water that Mars Town seceded

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from Mars Township so that was interesting for people to hear but a question I heard a couple times is we always talk about it but it is odd like who developed this big circle that touches 10 different other municipalities. >> I have a couple of things.

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>> Yeah, let's go. >> Um, one is about single family housing for um, younger people uh, who can't afford a typical new house as they're currently being constructed in Mars Township. I feel like this is something

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we need to think about. Um, when a developer takes over a lot nowadays, they build the largest house they can uh that will fit uh on the lot and u meet our zoning requirements or

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um get approved by the zoning board uh for a couple variances perhaps. Um, so they're building, you know, 3,500T homes, 4,000 foot homes. Um, when I first got married, um, I moved to a house in Madison that was under 2,000

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square ft. I think a lot of people, younger people, that's what they want. They want a smaller house. And, uh, it would be nice to try to figure out a way to increase the stock of smaller houses in Mars Township for people um, who are

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starting out. um rather than encouraging um larger homes um so that um we have the diversity of population that we want. So that's one

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comment I wanted to make. And then another one is about traffic. I think traffic is a good example of something which um we need to think about whether there's a way we can increase our influence to allow us to have some control over our

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situation. When there's a development that um will increase traffic on a on a particular roadway, uh we're usually given a traffic study that shows, you know, there might be an additional

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um 20 cars an hour uh that are coming uh in peak time onto the roadway from this new development. And we're told, well, that's not a significant increase in the traffic. and it's probably not a significant increase in the traffic. But

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when you do that 10 times, then suddenly you've got a problem. And it's a problem over which we have no control at all. So, uh, if there were some way for our planning board and other planning boards

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in New Jersey to, uh, um, get some kind of method for giving us some power to deny or modify applications based on traffic

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uh, outside of the uh, developed area. I think that would be a big step forward. Controversial, but something that would be popular with our residents and would um would help the maintain the quality of life in our township.

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>> Yeah, I just wanted to add that and I I should have added this earlier was this concept of things happening regionally. And so let's say Morris Township has a moratorum. I just doing something extreme. Well, it doesn't matter if the neighboring towns don't, you know,

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because that means all the traffic is going to come. And I think >> traffic is one. I think storm water, you know, certainly Joe can speak to this better than I, but there are a few things that I think really can't be done in isolation, you know, because if you

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can do what you can do, but if everyone around you is doing something, you know, not doing what you're doing, then it's it's going to be not as effective. And so I thought that there actually was almost a request whether people actually explicitly said it or not, but that

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there be more regional uh examination of some of those issues. >> That's what they would ask for if they knew to ask for that. >> Exactly. Yeah. But similarly, they they did talk about that just with the addition of

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new homes and expansion of population in the township on infrastructure in general that's already passed a use for life. So I think the issue that George raised on on on

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the traffic studies that came up I think on both of my groups um yeah we only look at the instantaneous effects of traffic not the long range effects of traffic. So I think that is something

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that that um on the one hand people see it's coming on the other hand we also see the fact that we don't have sufficient infrastructure for today's population let alone what it might be in in 20 years. If I might build on um the

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infrastructure thing, one of the things that came up in at least one of my sessions and maybe maybe more than one, the idea of us planning infrastructure changes around basically around each application. >> So we do it in the moment. It's current

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for the application in front of us. But if we know for example longer term that things are coming at us, we could foresee that. Is there a way for us to plan infrastructure with a longer horizon? So, for example,

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um allowing for a left turn lane off of a road, even though it's not application specific, to do that in advance and plan plan it out in a way that uh prepares so that we're not caught short um with a with a real traffic situation that's

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driven by a particular application. So, so I think there's a there might be a way we could do that within the guidelines of the of the municipal land use law, but u I think it's going to require us to do something a little bit different than we've done in the past.

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>> Some of that is being done now, not necessarily for traffic, but certainly you look at what the county has done in many of the road projects, >> right? Y and it looks kind of funny now with the intersections where they have uh they have crosswalks and re and crosswalks and sidewalk landings and

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everything and no sidewalks >> but they have done that so they don't have to go back sometime in the future. So that is being you know that are being done. Some things are being >> and the point about some things just are regional in nature >> because if if your neighbor Joe does

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something >> uh that impacts you, you need to know that and be prepared to deal with that without it coming to you as a surprise later on and that often happens. I would love for our plan to say that

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we're going to um we're going to comment uh we're going to try to improve communication with the state on traffic issues and on communication on particular uh intersections and roadways. I remember the first time I got a visit

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at my house from an elected official years ago. Peter Manuso came to my house um campaigning for office and and asked if there was anything I wanted to talk about and I said, "Yes, there's a traffic light out here at the intersection uh nearest us and when the

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light turns green, my wife can't walk across the road fast enough before the light turns red again and cars um want to drive um across where she's walking." And he said, "Oh, well, that's a state road, so I can't do anything about that.

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Um and um that really um annoyed me. Uh and I felt like for a for a local official to say I have no power and I can't even talk, you know, to imply I can't even talk to the folks down in Trenton about this. Um

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uh I I think we need to do better than that and we need to have some kind of process and we need to say in our plan we're going to try to establish a process um that involves um getting the state to pay attention to us.

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>> You'll put it more tactfully. I'm sure >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um I went to the one in Freeling Hives in the first one and um first I just want to commend the subcommittee and you Liz at really I think managing a really nice process that um you know

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gave the folks that the the residents that were participating um you know real sense of real control over what was being um what was being recorded, how it was reported back. I thought it was a good process. Um I heard in my group and I think I heard it

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in the other groups and I was only in that one group almost I mean all the things that you said so maybe the same people just kept coming back but um there was a lot about safety. >> Safety was really kind of echoed a lot uh and and we did have one younger

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person in our group. but was one of the few, you know, one of the very few younger people in the in the assembly that we had there. And um and safety was a really big concern. Uh and also not just again, this is a little bit to George's point, um not just in I mean we

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we access things that are owned and and operated and controlled by the county too, you know, safety and parks. So I can walk to Lanica Park from where I live. That's one of the really nice features about where I live. But if I'm going to get mowed down by somebody who's on, you know, going too fast on a

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scooter or I'm so concerned about my grandchildren, you know, getting hit, like that communication around that and the whole issue of safety, I think is is really important. Um, not just to me, but to the to the voices that I that I was listening to. Um, you know, and similar to what you said, and I don't know how to um I don't know how this

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gets corrected, but you know, long before I was on on planning board, I had contacted the township and said, "Wow, you know, I live in the neighborhood of Ginty Pool, and I just cannot understand why it's like not a priority to put a it's an easiest thing. You just a sidewalk you, you know, right down to get to on South Street to get to the

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Lanica Park. You see kids all the time on that, you know, on that road. Cars go very fast on that road. That's the county road, you know. So, it seems like we could as a township find out, you know, even have like a

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wish list for the county. I mean, I know obviously they're going to have to come in with the funding, the engineering, and all that stuff, but what I was advised at that time was that I contact the county to talk about it. And that felt a little overwhelming to me at that time uh to do. So, you know, I just

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wanted to lift that up as well. No, not the South Street. The connect this the where the pool is to Lana on South Street. Monica Park the entrance there. >> So you're talking about South Street, >> right? By seat hackne >> in front of seat hackne right.

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>> Anything else? Right. >> Well, I think Liz had one one question for us that she wanted answered before we left. >> Oh yeah. Okay. Uh the one question I wanted to go around and I know we didn't give anybody any forewarning but it's the one

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>> issue that you must see addressed in the master plan. >> So give you two minutes go first >> appropriate setbacks on Madison Avenue so that it doesn't turn into a canyon. >> Okay. If you're going to build

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affordable housing at the JCPNL site, which I think is a piece of this, maybe that's what's driving that. We're going to also have market rate residential. >> I think there's a good opportunity for us to be able to work with the setbacks, condemn old turnpike road, push the

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community back, and this way it's not on top of Madison Avenue, and then we don't lose our residential feel and get high density housing. Is it too late to make that kind of change on that project?

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>> I I don't know. Is it? >> Well, there's an or >> doesn't change anything. There's an ordinance in place, but there's a land use board process to come. So, I think it's uh I would never say everything's too late.

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>> Well, for vacating a road, for example. >> Okay, then that's different. How about the setbacks? The setback in the ordinance or the whatever was 20 ft. >> Now, >> I don't think you could change the setback without the the land. >> There's a certain amount of density that

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they've designed. >> And only where that density works is if the building's on top of the road. >> Mhm. >> So, in order to >> unless we increase the height of the building, >> unless we increase the height of the building, >> but I don't know if stacked town houses can go up another story because then they wouldn't be stacked town houses anymore.

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Well, we it would have been nice to have these discussions before the plan was approved. >> So, you know, >> beyond my purview. >> I just Liz asked the question, I just answered. >> Yeah. Okay. >> We'll have an opportunity. >> So, my my question is, is it too late?

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It sounds to me like yes, it's too late but within the confines of the of the um of the word >> whatever we can we can move things around but the big the big part it's too

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late. >> All right. So that's your that's your >> that's my one suggestion for what it's worth. >> Okay. >> Are we going to go in this order? I guess. Yeah. >> I I'm not the a person that can just >> Okay, you want this?

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>> I'll hold this for a moment and I'll continue. >> Okay, >> I'll pass. >> Okay. >> He wants more fire engines. Okay. >> One of the things that that >> tell me another time. >> Yeah. >> One of one of the things that I think we

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heard a lot of and I think it's because the um demographics were a little skewed to you know to older people of which oh my god I'm one of them um is people wanted to ret be able to retire here in the township. So I think that if the

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master plan addresses um senior services I think that that would be uh very beneficial. Just a quick question just on that topic. Just >> do we have the ability to zone areas for

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senior housing? I I don't know that we have like a retirement like like I think Havni off the top of my head. >> It was real popular for a while but then they all had to come back. They couldn't sell them. So they had to get them like resow and park

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>> besides that multigenerational is more popular. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true. That's Yeah. The other thing that came up often was that people wanted multigener multigenerational housing. >> Like they wanted all >> So I just tagg.

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>> So we used we used they call them CDC's, right? There's what was it what used to be called something to deal with >> the we had the 55 plus applications a couple of times >> but I don't think they ever >> no they all fell through or

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>> had to be re re >> well the market turned away from it so >> right >> um well a couple things I would you have to say we have to address traffic somehow but I thought you know specific you know

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that the housing stock would the um the mix of housing, the the missing middle, the uh um looking at the zoning around um they say ADUs were mentioned and not specifically, but you know, we talked and then George talked about, you know,

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encouraging, you know, smaller houses, but that would also possibly include the um more we have some very confined areas that are zoned for like um duplexes or triplexes, multif family, single lot

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multi multif family um things that that we'd probably look at. Um cuz you know if you look at uh you know the townhouse development you know five that was five units an acre that's those you know in terms of density that's less

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dense than our whatever the 7500 foot minimum >> but nobody seems I mean people obviously like town houses because they move into them but aesthetically people not but you know would >> move out >> you know small individual houses at that

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same density would that be more acceptable? So Liz, I think what I take from this whole discussion um what an important thing to me too is when I heard about how important it was about the safety and as we do the master plan that we

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kind of have that consideration and to Mr. Rabbits's point and I think it's very important to take care of our aging population but just as importantly to me we and this is I'm going we're going to try to get more young people because I

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think as you're doing a new master plan that's a really important piece. I would love to see the township remain this community for young families. We have so many great stuff, such great stuff in the township that's available, recreation,

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pools, all kinds of activities. And I think that that's something that we have to make sure um just having a new community center at some point, which will be, you know, within the next 10 years hopefully. But I think that's a focus that we need to get young people

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involved and make sure that's part of our vision over the next 10 years. >> Thank you. I both Tanya and Donna's comments, you know, there were concerns about safety, but safety was one of the things that people mentioned is one of the things they liked about the town that, you

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know, they do feel safe. It is safe. They just wanted to make sure that it >> stayed that way and got better. It wasn't they were, you know, feeling unsafe at the time. >> Was it when they were talking about safety, were they talking about from a traffic perspective or crime? >> No, not crime. >> Both. >> Both. >> Yeah. They said they like that they feel

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safe from a crime perspective >> and that they would prefer, you know, that all developments keep in consideration especially the needs of children >> um pedestrians. Yeah. >> So I've already made a couple of

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suggestions. I guess my um the other one that I can think of is even vagger than the others which is uh I wish that under the land use law we had more freedom to try to shape the nature of our commercial developments so that um we

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encourage the kind of commercial commercial development we like and discourage the kind of commercial development we don't like so much. But the law tends to forbid that. You can't, you know, you can't exclude a business that you it's just a, you know, a business that you don't like. You know,

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if you've got um a couple of Subway shops and a Dunkin Donuts and another similar type of business wants to move in next door and you'd rather have something else, you can't say, "I'd rather have something else." Um, but somehow it would be nice

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to have a little bit of power there more than what we have. An example that I think of is um along the Madison Avenue Carter, we have three gas stations. Do we need three gas stations there? I I wish that instead we had something else.

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>> So sort of attracting part of that is marketing our image. >> That's what I'm wondering. So it's it's sort of making a greater outreach potentially to the kinds of maybe different potential commercial tenants.

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Right. But also having within the master plan and within the the legal structure that we've established something that gives us some authority to guide how things um develop over time and that may be very difficult under the

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current state law. >> Yeah. save it for later. So, I don't have one overriding issue um at this point, but my takeaway from the two sessions I went to is that we're

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going to be having a community survey. And maybe at that time it'd be nice to include some sort of visioning board concept where like if you know if you're familiar with visioning boards you know say you want to buy a house well you you

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go around take pictures out of magazines whatever of what you want and eventually you buy the house you can you can envision the house you want by looking at your visioning board throughout time. So we could as a group, as a committee, we could

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welcome it onto the onto the um the uh survey site, welcome pictures or statements of what we would like the community to look like. >> Maybe things we don't want >> and things we do want. You know, we had

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a quick conversation a while ago about how do you get nice looking affordable housing? you know, well, if you drive around and you look at affordable housing, you like this one, this one, and this one, you can put those on there and say, well, the and those three that I don't like. We don't want affordable housing

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look like that, >> you know, because we welcome affordable housing. We want to be included into the rest of the housing that we have, but we don't want a developer, and I think we're protected somewhat by ordinance now, to say, okay, well, this portion is

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what? So whether it's the tree canopy, the parks, the sidewalks, um the playgrounds, we're talking verbally about things that are important to us and what we would

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like. But I think it's really really helpful if we could look at it visually and become a part of our vision for the master plan. particularly then it could be included in the vision statement of

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the master plan which would be the very first chapter anyway >> so it would help inform what it is that we're really looking for in the future and I think visually it's really important to do that >> does that make sense >> it does I mean there they have visual

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preference surveys you know where people and we've thought about it internally at my office about doing you can do it uh pretty effectively now using online tools, you know, so that people can Anyway, that's something I think we should look into. Yes.

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>> Yeah. Because we don't want people throwing in I mean, we'd have to screen stuff before it gets put to the website or something that we want. >> Oh, no. I'm not going to do it without the idea. Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah. >> So, uh I'm going to say a couple of

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things. Um, at the heart of the matter for us, I think our challenge is being creative and um, and that leads us to looking really hard at zoning from two perspectives. If we want the diversity of housing stock, we have to set the

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stage for that to happen. Um, our current zoning is uh, prohibiting us from building affordable single family homes, for example. Um, I don't know if it's so popular here, but I've lived in other states where affordable homes for

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young people are often uh cluster homes. They still have a backyard. It's a single family home and then they have some common areas, playgrounds and whatnot for the kids. We would have to change our zoning to accommodate something like that because we can't do it under our current conditions. The

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same thing is true of our office parks which are challenged with increasing vacancies and lack of tenants. Uh we have some good buildings that maybe we just need to be creative about how we purpose those. We instead of having a lot, you know, and they're pretty

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restrictive in zoning now, too. What can go in those buildings? Maybe what we do is we have smaller businesses that are vertical. Instead of having a um strip mall, maybe the maybe a commercial building converts to a series of small

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businesses within the envelope of an existing office only becomes different. It comes along with adequate parking. It's already, you know, set up in a way that it can support business um activities with u um where they drop things off in the back, you know, for

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inventory and whatnot. So, so I think we're just limited by our creativity and thinking. And then once we get our creative juices going, we have to take a hard look at the zoning that would allow those kinds of things to happen. >> Okay.

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>> Thank you very much. We'll close out that discussion for now. Oh, do you want to just briefly run over what the what's coming up down the >> Yeah, sure. The upcoming things will be a community survey. Um, as well as I think the subcommittee or

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representatives of the subcommittee are going to be meeting with the different uh advisory committees and other sort of I don't want to call them focus groups but but just sort of other people who have a certain expertise or certain uh interest in in um that we want to make

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sure that we have reached out and discussed and and gotten input from. So that's like the environmental commission, TAC, EDAC, it's a place um you know organizations like that. >> And correct me if I'm wrong, Liz, but we have members or at least one member of

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many of those stakeholder agency organizations as part of this the national plan. >> They are they are so that that there's outreach there. We >> running out to their groups. Um, we're

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going to be doing informational interviews particularly with people who um work in the in in the town in the this building as well as as people like the planning board chair, the zoning board chair, HBC, that sort of thing that um

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to get certain sort of input that kind of forms and emergency services um etc. people in schools, you know, just to get make sure that we have sort of covered our bases and and got as much sort of

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groundwork as we can. Um, and then in the fall, I think we're going to be working over the summer to kind of finalize what these macro topics are, finalize how we're going to potentially focus certain aspects of the plan. And then we will what we anticipate doing in

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September October is having topical workshops that are really devoted to very you know a more limited this these public forums or public or visioning workshops were open-ended and these would be more um focused on a specific

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what I'm calling macro topics for right now but you know let's say it's on sidewalks or connectivity or bike lanes that sort of thing mobility let's say Um, so we would be doing that in the fall. Uh, and then I think, you know, as it goes forward, we would be formulating

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goals and objectives and policies with this board. You know, the subcommittee I think would maybe take the first draft and then come and and and sort of flesh these out uh in a public planning board meeting uh in the late winter, early

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sorry, late fall, early winter. Uh and then um certainly by you know April we're hoping to have public hearings on the full draft but by that point hopefully you've seen it so many times

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that you none none of it will be new um and of course those are public hearings. >> I have a question. >> I didn't compare there there's lots of elements in the master plan. I don't know whether all of our

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discussion what was discussed in the groups touch on each element. >> We do not >> or whether they should or what needs to be done to make sure that all the elements are adequately addressed. >> Well, first example there there is um

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one is on sorry Leah let me look at the elements just to remember I was just thinking of one I want to get the right title. Um, for example, the historic preservation plan element that is really going to be heavily influenced by whatever conversations and input we have from

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HPC. Um, you know, we wouldn't want to do anything or make any recommendations that they didn't >> support, you know. So, and and there wasn't all that much that came out in these in the workshops on that. Um, so for example, that's a good one. another

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utility service plan. I think that was that was touched on that people didn't >> call it that, >> but yeah. But had concerns, but that some of that is more technical um and would involve probably Joe um and the same community facilities to a certain

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degree. Again, that's touched on, let's say, community center. But there's certain aspects that let's say for emergency services or, you know, let's say police and fire things that we maybe no one really here is going to know what

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recommendations they would like to see, but that would come from from those >> people really like our police and fire. >> Well, they might need more they might need more facilities. We we just have to find out. So, but that kind of stuff, you know, isn't probably going to come

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out of a public process so much as it's going to come from people who have a specific expertise and knowledge of those topics. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, anything from the legislative

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committee? >> Nothing. >> Okay. Well, that's next. And then Okay. And then I will now open up to public comments since we actually have some people. Do you have anything any comments, questions?

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>> Actually, could you come up to the mic? Yeah. >> We'll just need name and address. >> Yes, sure. >> Pauly Antonio 10 crest. >> Uh, so I've been a resident for 35 plus years. Yes. we're in a fortunate

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position that you want a house that's probably five we're five time old at this point and I understand the concern about you know affordability uh but it was raised several times as far as traffic is concerned and as much

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as ideas of more density uh the affordable housing and yes the JCPNL is going to be an eyesore with the setback that it is You're adding traffic in all of those scenarios, potential scenarios for some.

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And until that's addressed, the B11 zone on Madison Avenue, would you like more retail restaurant that people could walk to? I'm sure that's being mentioned, but again, that's all heavy traffic in and out, in and out, accessibility. Uh we

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have punch bowl and I'm going to speak to the convent side because that's where I'm from. Uh you have punch bowl the roads misaligned. You know restoration hardware is supposed to fix that misalignment. It's a it's stupid to to

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you know sum it up. So these are all great ideas and and it's good that that you're focusing on that. Uh but if you're adding incrementally each of these ideas and you add it up in in a

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big picture perspective, if the road stays the same and then trying to appease bicycle lanes, it's going to get 10 times worse, whatever times worse. So, um it's a

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challenge in front of you and it can't be done without that in mind. uh or it it's not going to resolve. Uh everyone else who's always been there is going to be even more miserable in trying to address some of these concerns

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that we have. Um affordability is yeah an issue. Um and I'm sure if my parents when my parents bought their house um and when I bought mine it was six times what they bought it for. So, so we

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all go through these cycles and that unfortunately maybe some of our kids are experiencing the event of the moment. So, so maybe affects us, you know, resonates more at the moment. Uh, but it's not something that hasn't not

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occurred in the past. So, and you know, if my parents were alive and they think of where our houses were or where theirs was, you know, they they'd be rolling over again. So, uh, so yeah, it it it does it does happen unfortunately. Um,

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and one last comment, Forest Township is the neighborhoods and and we do have distinctly different neighborhoods. I mean, Convent is its own deal. Fairchild is its own deal and and the people do

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reflect the neighborhood. Um, and and part of that is because there's ownership. And one thing about Morristown, and I can understand the demographics of the young people wanting to move there or whatever, um, is that no one owns them. You know, they don't

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have the ownership, and we do have the ownership. And that's why your neighborhood reflects that and and you know, people have have find comfort in that. Our our neighborhood is is is a great neighborhood and anyone who's ever

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moved to it from out of state, you know, they think New Jerseyians have three heads, you know, but maybe it's only two on average, but but they walk away from the neighborhood or very, you know, they're they're they're surprised. So, that's what the township is. And

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Morristown is a great it's a it's great auction to have. Um, but it's because we do have ownership. So, uh, from a marketing point of view, it's the donut, you know, and everyone wants to eat a donut. Everyone wants to LIVE

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to work on that idea of >> I think that might be our new phrase. >> Any any other comments from the public? Then then we will go ahead and close the public session, public comment session. And >> thank you for having >> Yeah. No, thank you for coming. It's

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nice to get some people here. Um, so okay, I guess that's that's it then, right? Oh, we don't no reason for close session. I nothing there. So Mr. >> Motion to adjourn. Thank you for your second.

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>> Thank you Paul. Uh >> and there was a second. >> All in favor? >> I Okay. Okay.