I'd like to call to order the regular meeting of the uh Board of adjustment for Mars Township for February 24th 2025 the legal notices required in accordance with the open public meeting act have been satisfied and the statement certifying same will be
executed please join me in the pledge of allegiance of the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liy and justice for all okay Miss Santiago roll call yes Mr
chairman Mr Goldberg here Mr tractenberg here Mr Williams here Mr Schuster here Mr Beno here M Simmons here miss polara Mr Woodford here Mr oler here Mr Hansen here Andia Santiago here okay we
have some Oaths to administer Mr Kramer's not here we got Mr Shuster for I go to the office yeah you got go sorry give me a minute got to get one piece of paper two pieces of paper that
are important to be signed yeah front row ni I finish with my phone good friend of years old a day okay Mr Shuster sure don't you join me
over here thanks you raise your right hand repeat after me I do solemly swear I Solly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States I will support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and I will bear
faith and allegiance to the same and I will bear faith and allegiance to the same and to the governments established in the United States the government's establish in the United States and in this state and in the state under the authority of the people people so help me gu and the both of
office I do solemnly swear I do Solly swear that I will Faithfully I will faithfully and partially and partially and justly perform and justly perform all the duties all the duties of the office of the board of adjustment of the office of the board of adjustment regular member regular member according to the best of my ability according to
the best of my ability congratulations oh thank you for nobody else thank you y all right thank you
everyone like to thank my agent thank you okay next we have two resolutions uh the first being ba-1 16-24 Mr oler thank you Mr chairman this is a
memorial iing resolution with respect to the application filed by Todd Goldberg who appli to the board for permission to modify an existing non-conforming dwelling by constructing a second story over an existing one story section of his dwelling and the single story addition to the rear of the house which
required variance relief for uh sidey yard setback combined sidey yard and expansion of a non-conforming structure for the reason set forth in the resolution that application was conditionally granted with our standard conditions okay board members any
comments if not I'll entertain a motion second hello uh David you can Dave can he wasn't here oh I'll move it I'll unve it moveed by who Mr Williams Mr Williams
please state your name please sorry second Mr benah Mr Beno thank you hey Mr goldber yes Mr tractenberg yes Mr Williams yes Mr
Simmons yes Miss POA yes Mr Beno yes Mr Woodford yes some and um also have a resolution with respect to an application filed by Daniel valano who applied to the board for permission
to modify an existing non-conforming dwelling by constructing a portico at the front entrance of the dwelling and a dormer on the roof of a one-story section of the dwelling which required varant Rel for front yard setback side yard setback combined sidey yard and expansion of a non-conforming structure
and for the reason set forth in the resolution that application was conditionally granted with our standard conditions as well okay board members any questions if not I'll entertain a motion Mr
Williams Miss Simmons seconds thank you m Santiago Mr Goldberg yes Mr tractenberg yes Mr Williams yes Miss Simmons yes Miss polara yes Mr benoa yes Mr Woodford
yes so move next we move into our public hearings the first one is b-01 d25 M Santiago yes Mr chairman this is ba1 d25 Anthony deito uh block 204 lot 60 145 Lake
Valley Road in the ra15 zone section c applicant proposes the construction of a two-story Edition creating a front yard setback of 11 ft where 50 ft is required a left side yard setback of 14.67% back of 10 ft where 30 ft is
required and a combined sard setback of 24.6 7 ft where 50 is required applicant will also seek a variance relief for a maximum building coverage of 23.875-in forming
structure thank you your appearances please can you please press that button on that microphone until until the light goes green thank you Ryder architect thank you would you both
please stand and raise your right hands please you solemly swear that the testimony you'll give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God thank you so which of you are going to speak first
okay Mr D good evening um yeah I'm hoping to have the variances branded so I can put this addition on um I can put the addition on and then sell the house to my son and my daughter-in-law in the back after seeing what they've been
experiencing in the in today's housing market I I offer okay and can you just uh give us a rough overview this property is adjacent the ball field on Lake Valley Road correct it's the first one as you're going towards Handover it's the first
one past the ball field yes on the right hand side okay and uh what is the reason for the expansion so I could put two bedrooms well make it a three bedroom and multi bath so my son and my daughter-in-law could purchase the house and start a
family in Mars Township um okay anything else board members any questions how is the house being used right now I live in it it's yeah it's a one bedroom it's a total of like 720 Square fet it's a
small house it looks small very small it is small and how close is it to the to the ball field um right now on the
probably structure I can look on my because the the house the property line yeah the back of the house is here now right the existing house is
51 property line the proposed addition with the garage is going to make it uh and there's a a request to move the garage or storage facility that you have from one side to the other is that what the shed will be pushed into the back
there's an existing shed that hand the driveway now it'll be pushed back to the right thank you you're welcome what's the size of the of the shed uh 8 by 12 okay so it's under the 100 yeah 5 by five is 5T to the rear
line 5 feet to the side line all right and we're good you're good all right board members any other questions any members of the public with any questions of this Witness seeing none hearing none close the public portion M Ryder can you give us
the benefit of your credentials I a LIC architect okay license is in good standing yes and where's your education thank you except you as an expert in architecture please
proceed um I just want to give you a little bit of background about the design of the property because they like the character of the house but it's just too small and they like toand it so that they can move here and have
family here um as he mentioned the township property is to the right and behind the property and then there's a neighbor to the left on that side we're extending the house but not coming closer to the property line and um the
initial idea was to try and do a two bedroom uh two additional bedrooms two car garage and the constraints of the site and also budget we really have you know done our best to
consolidate you know what their needs were in the house in this plan so we've um you know tried to streamline the best we could we' move the front entry to the side
because it is close to the road so we created a front door in the addition um the the two bedrooms that were existing we couldn't really get
um and it to attach to the house with circulation without being another position on and we were trying to keep the book minimal so we created a master suite there we um like I said intentionally
our original intentions were do a four bedroom instead we made a master suite the two additional the try to keep it consistent you know with what they the
neighborhood model made efforts to break down the scale so that it's not a big box or overwhelmingly big for the record we're going to mark that is a exhibit A1 okay so a1's a model of
is it two scale yes it is two scale model of the proposed home you know it's it's a massing model to just show the how the original blends with the new proposed design so um but we've you know
kept it the plate height in the main house is located with and we Tred to keep and keep everything low so it doesn't overwhelm the existing so we've um we were proposing
to expand it but keep it character with the neighborhood um there's no detriment to um the neighbors or the master plan I think it adds to the functionality of the house and the
curve appeal of the house and um you makes it more of a house that would be able to so um I'm looking at the U the numbers here and this lot is
8,966 square feet where 15,000 ft is required is that corre and the house on it is preexisting nonconforming as far as the location because it's closer 20 ft to the property line
so what we've done is expand the house you know going straight back the house actually you know pivots somewhat so it's actually a more so it's mean maining it distance
from this property line and this property line3 13 or it looks like is it 10 on them um on our plants I'm looking at maybe got something got the wrong
one it 13 okay I looking front yard back have 1.75 which is existing it's the front
porch we haven't changed that we haven't done any changes here except move the front St back middle the side main entrance what's up here I have a question Mr Hansen is it
is the um I notice on the uh you're looking at the house the left property line it looks like it's slightly goes from 118 to 12 to 128 is that same hold true on the other side is that is there
any variation in there is 13 to Clos this point uh well the front the the back I'm looking at the Ser that I it's just that side going that's bouncing from 118 to 12 to
1208 um I just want to make sure we don't have it's just the inconsistencies of the construction back then there's probably things out there that aren't Square um I think the point is the 13 Feet's the closest point right that's
what I'm saying I don't want to say 13 ft but it ends up being 12 I don't see 13 ft on my plan on the on the right side on the right side yeah yes that's the closest point that be the closest point all right I don't want to have a
oversight I think the original house is off I'm sure it is yeah okay and town doesn't have any objection I assume Mr H right board members any questions members of the public any
questions on this application is that anything else uh Mr CH there's no additional lighting or what have you on the property some lighting right somewhere and no more in the front of the
house now I like to applaud you 20 years I've been here I've never seen a model it's very helpful it is really is so no extra lighting interfering with traffic or anything like that no the the lighting that's existing now landscap
ligh no landscape it would just be the porch lighting that's existing now there's four lights under the wraparound porch that would say okay any other questions from board members any any members of the public with any questions of either witness not
close the public portion well I've been by this house about thousands and thousands of times and I know how small it is and I think it really deserves to be expanded and I know it's a small lot
it's two-thirds less than two-thirds the size of the required lot so therefore you're really constrained by the setbacks and I'd be in favor of this uh application I'll hear anybody else I agree Mr
chair can I have a motion then the application I think the only condition if there's a motion to approve is that the shed would be relocated to a conforming location and I also will need a grading permit and storm water mitigation
okay Mr chairman yes how many variances are we looking at here I'm looking at this sheet it says five yeah so there's a yard that's um 11t where 50 is required the 11t is what's existing right um it
just that it goes up above right in the front so that's why two side yards yeah and then the sidey yard uh you know I have 1467 report I don't think that's right the original yeah I see it's a little
different yeah but site plan so we got to done and lo and behold the house is was mislocated on the plan it was actually you know
further away from the sidey yard than this showed but the initial site plan um review right was off of this okay that's what caused the confusion so the dimensions that are on
your plan are what's correct so it's not 11 yeah go ahead tell us what they are what's the front then the front is 13.75 and the side your
11.8 on the left and 13 on the right and you have combined right 24.8 and we also have an expansion of a non-conforming um structure and what about building coverage then what is that and the
building coverage is 23. 72 72 okay number 20 is uh the maximum right yes right impervious coverage was was the road cuts into the property by
154 square feet that affects perious but not the building so can all the appropriate information and Dave has been updated that it's in the ra 15 not 13 yeah yep that was just in this title well the numbers were
corrected it's just it was 13 on the plan it's 15 okay so those are the six all right so Mr Ben you move to appr I'll move that as corrected thank you do I have a second second thank you m
Santiago roll call Mr Goldberg yes Mr tractenberg yes Mr Williams yes Mr Sher yes Mr Ben yes M Simmons yes Mr wer yes so move thank you I'll have a resolution for you at
the next meeting okay so in the March you're if you're moving that fast you can your building plan and as soon as the resolution gets um read at the next meeting I will have
done my completeness review and I can give it to the building department then at that point so it'll save you it'll save you some time if you can get the building plan okay thank you all right okay next application is ba-
02-2 Miss sanago yes Mr chairman this is ba225 block 303 L 7 15 watman Road R7 Zone section c Kelly and Brandon carry applicant proposes the
construction of a front entrance ptical and a second story Edition creating a front yard setback of 19 ft where 25 ft is required a left side yard set back of 9 ft where 10 feet is required a right side yard setback of 6 feet where 10
feet is required and a combined side yard setback of 15 ft where 20 ft is required applicant will also seek a variance relief for the building coverage of 32% where 30% is allowed and expansion of a non-conforming
structure okay your appearances please your name hi Brandon and Kelly Carrie okay um would you both raise your uh yeah would you both stand and raise your right hands please you Solly swear that the testimony you
will give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God thank you you can be seated thank you okay who's going to testify first I will
okay um yeah so we're here for uh four different variances okay um I have five five five different varant here um so we we've lived in a house since 17 and um we're a growing family uh we love
our neighborhood so uh we want to stay in it um the home currently uh sits is about 12 to 1300 square fet and um we're looking to expand um pushed off the back uh and um above the existing
non-conforming structure um yeah uh that's sort of the gist of it um we tried to keep the the the envelope of the home consistent with uh the
neighborhood um and uh we try to draw the plans in a way in which doesn't really impact our our neighbors too much we're kind of pushing straight back okay that's it the Portico is for uh so nobody gets wet standing at the front
door yeah um they keep I off the steps correct yeah um if you're familiar with uh with watnong um we we don't have anything um at the front of our home so our guests get wet our packages get wet um everyone gets
wet they um M Mr Hanson is there any problems with the uh the garage where it's located um garage is obviously pre-existing uh that should be
um 10 ft off the right property line 25 ft off the rear property line when you say it's pre-existing it's been there for a long long time yeah as long as the existing house was the existing house was built in 1937 the uh garage looks like it's dated
right around that time period so it predates the zoning ordinance yes okay and interior-wise what do you hope to accomplish yeah sure um we have uh uh one growing boy um he turns two in a couple weeks um and uh we're plan we
hope to have more children um so we currently have two bedrooms we're looking to expand to four we currently have two full bathrooms and we're hoping to expand to three um as well as a more open floor plan
um uh boys are crazy and uh right now the house was the yeah the house was uh was uh built in the 30s so it's very compart compartmentalized um small rooms U you can close off every room and um uh so
the addition has a more open open concept uh to it thank you board members any questions open up the public any member of the public with any questions
yes you need to come to the microphone please this you could come to this one if you like the one at the desk that uh yes is yeah that is the
question um hi my name is Karen hasell I live right next door I live in number 11 what on and I certainly I I'm not here to say no but I am here just to I'm a first- time homeowner this
the first time I've had to sort of you know work with something like this it's also the first time I've seen the plans and the the side the difference in the existing house to the size of the proposed house
seems like a huge increase one of the appealing things about my house is the backyard feels quite private it's it's very small but it feels quite private this this addition feels like it's going to dwarf the side of my house and and
just Loom over the backyard so we're really just doing questions right now you'll have an opportunity to come up and give statements but do you have any questions to what they said um I mean I guess I'm just trying to understand the different variances
and well I guess I don't know if I do or not because I don't like I said this I'm new to this process um right so I guess I'm just not sure so let me go over what the variances are okay I know the board's going to have that question later as well so um
there's five variances right yep so uh one is for the front yard setback they're requesting 19 feet where 25 ft's what's required in the zone and um about 23 and a half feet is what's existing right now so it's not really conforming
currently so you're going to invade that front yard a little bit more um they're requesting a sidey yard variance of 9 ft 10 ft is what's required in the zone and currently it's 9.82 feet on which
side the South Side okay um the town has a combined sidey yard requirement so you kind of add up the two sides and the two sides combined should be 20 ft and here it'll be 15.82% and they're requesting a variance
for building coverage which they're seeking 32% where 30% Maxes the ordinance and the fourth variance is to expand the non-conforming structure and from what I see Dave uh looks like impervious is uh compliant
right yes what does that mean impervious coverages the amount of land that they can cover is uh they're compliant with that requirement so do you have any question questions to that um not questions I mean comments
but not questions okay so let me so let me SAR you in you can do comments okay right now so would you raise your right hand you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give to this Bo will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you got sure okay go for it um I think the front
I agree I mean that I that a portico is a great idea um I've seen the Soggy packages I get it um I think the FR it would improve the look of the front of the house and I think overall the structure from the front it it does conform to the neighborhood my concern
as I said before is is the length and height of the back it's because the houses are so close together their driveway there's their driveway and then a fence a wooden fence and then there's like a 3ot w wide is gravel pathway that
runs along my house my right so if we're standing in the street looking at their house you're to the right yes corre okay drive yeah the driveway is kind of whoever their house their driveway then your house yes and yes and so there's
not a lot there wouldn't be room to put anything I don't there wouldn't be room to plant anything there wouldn't be room to sort of in any way kind of add some privacy I don't think I could put Arbor V I don't think I could put green Giants there certainly couldn't put a fence so I just feel like well is
there a fence now it's about four and a half five feet tall okay it's on your it's their your fence yeah it's on their side it was there when you got there yeah it was there one yeah they they live they've lived here longer than I
have okay um so again like Brandon and Kelly I don't want I'm not here being like this is terrible I just I guess I just want to know if there's any compromise to be made with I'm afraid that if I walked into the backyard of that house the way it is now with this
size of a structure I feel like it would I don't I don't know if it would reduce the property value or not but that's certainly my fear or one of my concerns so is the addition that you're looking to do on her side of that your house or on the opposite
side straight back so the house is actually built um once again in the 30s they just they didn't build it perfectly straight so that's the reason why while we're building back we're actually drifting facing the house atut the street we're drifting a little bit more
to the left um so that's why it becomes that 9 ft um we would obviously want to just build straight back and um that's just the existing condition that we're dealing with so we're actually getting further further away from from Karen's
home um yeah a little bit right and then 9 FTS for the deck right that on the opposite side correct is the deck correct yes I think what should be noted is a portion of the back of the house that
currently exists is going to be taken off the house um and then it's there's going to be an addition that's I'm going to put like the second floor on the front of the house and the expansion
uh the expansion backwards only looks like it goes back about five or six feet you know yeah in six feet further back than what it is right now correct but it's going from one story to two stories in the back right okay and then the deck
that's proposed on the back is on the opposite side of the yes the back of the house then the the driveway side let's put it that way yeah I don't feel like the deck isn't so much the concern it's it's it's just this yes it's only six
feet longer than it currently is but it's it's just the difference it's a it's a big difference in height all right but the height is conforming Dave yeah Miss hll is your is your home a twostory property it is and so looking
at their home and looking at your home um I noticed in the on Google Maps that you have the garage yes the single car garage is facing right and then your your actual home is it's its up high so
and how far back does your home go in comparison to where theirs if if I ently their house is further than ours a little bit Yeah if I stand there's so there was an addition to my house when I moved in three years ago and so there's
this if I if I'm in my kitchen and I look toward their house there's a side door and if I look out that side door I can I'm looking directly at the existing addition which is a little bit lower just because of where my house is so if
this is so my side door faces here so my side door is going to face the whole side um so there's the the back of my house there was a I guess a a p room and a sort of an office not really a bedroom
but pushed out on the back and then there's a deck as well was there when I got there and do you have any trees or shrubs or anything that separates your two properties beyond that fence that's there there were there are two CH two cherry trees there's a couple there's some um I can't figure what they're
called in the back but in between the houses there's two cherry trees that um actually Brandon and Kelly have done some work on because they really tend to grow toward their house toward the South um they were sort of poorly maintained when I had bought the house um probably
the work that they've done to them has probably helped them but so at the moment it feels very open um it's just it's lost a lot of the sort of the what felt very private I I didn't oppose to any of the tree work please let me be clear about that I'm all for it for it
was for the health of the trees and also for their own safety because the branches were quite heavy growing over um but there's not like I said there's not really room but especially where the fence is because it the pathway is right up against their driveway to add
anything that I can think of there might be a solution that I'm just not aware of and I'm open to that I'm open to I'm open to the whole conversation like I said I'm not not saying they're awesome neighbors we have a great neighborhood it's very quiet I totally understand why they want to stay
there um it's just a very quiet um just just it's a nice safe place to be it's a great place for kids it's a it's not a dead end street but it's not a it's not really right G any other questions of this witness I just have a a question on the
uh the garage um on the renderings of the if the project were to be approved and completed the if you're facing the house the second garage to the left is there enough width there to make that a usable garage once I mean it looks like it's a little tight in terms of the the to be ability to use it so will that be
able to still be a functioning garage no um in terms of car in and out no um is it currently able to be used as a garage if we put our mirrors in and prayed we could get the car in Kelly has a new tell ride so that
doesn't fit the garage made in the the 30s it's very small and there's no proposed work on that no no existing to remain um and that those numbers also kind of uh hinder uh the the sidey guard
setbacks because we're going off of you know those numbers that are there um if that was conforming the combined would be in a better better better spot thank you any other board members with
questions okay anything else I think sir okay thank you thank you very much do either of you have anything to add okay board members any comments because I I'm I'm looking at
this and this property is what 2third of the required size of a lot so it's impossible to put anything on this house without getting a the necess necessity of a variance and it is a very small house and I can see why you want to
expand it so um I would be in favor of this application but I'd like to hear other views so Mr chair um I too am in in favor of this um I'm very familiar with the neighborhood and it is a really nice neighborhood it's a quiet neighborhood
um younger families are moving in so you want to keep um the residents that are here in the township uh I am sensitive to miss Haskell's concern and it appears that there's a good relationship between the neighbors and perhaps there's some sort of a a compromise that can become that you all can come to that would
ensure the Privacy that that you're speaking of um while still um honoring what you all would like to see with your property and and it might be you know maybe just some foliage or something just to to guarantee that um I think it's a a wonderful project and um I wish
you all bless with it can I have a motion then I will make that motion to um approve this application with the um variances that have been outlined thank you second thank you who second Mr
sheer miss sanago Mr Goldberg yes Mr tackenberg yes Mr Williams yes Mr Schuster yes Mr benois yes M Simmons yes Mr wford yes so Mo I will have a resolution for you at
the next meeting luck next we have the continuation on ba-1 17-23 40 Springbrook Road Mr Santiago yes Mr chairman this is application ba 1723 Michael
Yan block 6503 5440 Springbrook Road in the ra15 zone 4 section c this is a continuation from December 11 of 2023 March 25th June 10th and December 9th of
2024 public hearings the applicant proposes the construction of a two-story Edition creating a side setback on the right side of 1544 ft in on the left side yard of 14
.25 ft where 20 ft is required and creating a combined s setback of 29.690510 uh Mr chairman David Brady Brady and Cory Al on behalf of the applicant um that's what struck me as we were going through this modified several of those
variances now we're really down to two variances that actually relate to construction and by that I mean attached garage is going to get a little closer to the left sideline of the property so that
we work a little better um and the uh it will be 17.78 ft uh now 14 fet that's for the usach garage then we have the garagecar Carriage House in the
back and that'll be 14.25 ft from the sideline that together that kind of generates a third variance which is the combined right you're supposed to have 50 ft you have 33.2 two now where we're going to 29.4 44 but
there's nothing happening on the right side of the house any longer that generates a variance we moved away from that after comments from the public um and doing some of the other changes after comments other variances have dropped off too two those two addition
do those two things the addition of the garage and the new garage in the back right as I recall as I looked at my notes um finished our affirmative case right I had one more variant and that is in the front yard the attached garage is
within the setback line uh is not within the entirely within the setback line going to the front is that correct it's like 49 or something uh the 49 something actually I forgot about that is the Portico it's supposed to be 50 and it's something like
49 the Portico is 50.2 yeah the uh corner of the garage corner of the garage is 49.89 and since you're going up from there that's just like an expansion along that line is that correct well there's two is there a second floor over
that no there's two there's two setbacks on the what would be the uh easterly side of the garage where they're putting the addition on it's going to be 50.1 feet and on the house side of the garage
Edition it's 49.89 you average those two out you come very close to f 50 but it's less than 50 okay yeah so Dave the 49 Dave Hansen the
49.89 Ft right to that point right that brings us to that X that shows a 95.7 that spot right yeah so is there that's to the existing garage right okay is that going straight up from there is
there a vertical addition at that point um straight up there okay so then there's a I mean that that one's pretty di Minimus but that's going to be a few inches there for that right one inch my definition ofous but yes you can
get another surveyor out there to do the same survey and he'll come up with a different number because it's where you hold the rod and take consideration for the sighting on the house too all right so but right now with the plan we have here we're showing basically a one inch front yard setback
right to to that Second Story stand correct it's not just two because of that addition of Second Story on top of a pre-existing one inch deviation right right um my not toate my recollection is
last time we finished our case in Chief um public I believe actually gave testimony in addition some questions I don't think they had any did we have any testimony yes okay I think we were coming back for one particular member of
the public who's represented by Mr ersen for Mr 's obor's case after that I may or may not have uh ble case and put on I like to see what we okay Mr chair where um what should the
witness testify from here bring them here I think microphone because someone keep going off yes Mr chairman uh this is just a paper copy of what we submitted electronically
sure yeah sure did you send that out give you a head up I don't think anybody saw this yet NOP right I know I did I we we emailed it twice okay okay I'm certain email twice read once but
read it right now email to theard thank you and I think someone brought up this old sales brochure before I think that's been marked right I da mark this whole thing
here Mar yeah I don't see this we haven't seen this before no okay no there's an 01 already which I think is the brochure which you have marked in this booklet is
01 okay but I'm going to Mark the whole and I hate to do that maybe because you have each one separately marked as we go right right he has 02 03 yeah so so um we'll just use your markings on each
successive page for 02 through 07 that appear in this book okay we'll refer to them with those numbers is it possible to get the plans back up on the screen
okay be with me okay than sure sh you want the site plan the architect oh the architect freaking original so so again just for the record I didn't want I want to wait
for Sonia so um we've accepted exhibits 02 through 07 that are all in this booklet and a copy of 01 is also in the book the previously marked okay thank you a just so I don't have to ask I think I
think I want keep going I think I want five the Left sided elevation 16 s so what's on the screen sheet five you go backward F thank you all right thank you so can you just I can't read it from here which sheet is up there that's uh a
2.4 a 2.4 cor okay thank you yes please would you stand raise your right hand do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth so help you God yes and your full name please Margaret
sers did you spell your name by Maggie uh m a r g a r e t I meant your last name oh sorry s e l l e RS like Peter no relation thank you okay U Miss sers uh could you first tell
the board uh where you live I live at 42 Spring Brook Road and you live uh on this application you live in the house adjacent to this the applicant's property on the Left Right the east side and how long have you lived there just
over 21 years and uh so the board understands your background uh tell tell the board what you do for a living I'm a licensed realtor uh been in real estate full-time in Morris Town
area almost 30 Years it'll be 30 years in May and uh would you consider that you have a specialty in uh the area around Spring Brook over the years they' sold many homes in there some two and three times and you including this one and so
you had the house that the applicant now owns you had had that as a listing and you've shown it as a real estate broker yes I've sold that one three times and rented it once so four transactions and so uh tell the board a
little bit about your uh your vision of Springbrook and your house and the neighbor's house tell tell the board a little bit about how you feel about the character of these particular homes in this particular Street Spring Brook's very special um we all know it well we
maybe don't all know but they started developing it in the early late teens early 20s around the golf course our stretch of homes for the most part of some of the original homes in the neighborhood the applicant's home was built in 30 mine was built in 1938 and when we get to the Spring Brook brochure
my house is actually in the original 1938 Spring Brook brochure which talks about the beauty of the neighborhood and the peace and tranquility and the trees and mature trees in the area it's all all written out from the original brochure which for the most part still EX and we don't want to lose that okay
so in an effort to keep moving be respectful of the board's time why don't we just Dive Right into our exhibits okay so under under tab one uh you have attached tell tell the board what what tab one exhibit 01 is this is the
original uh sales brochure for the Spring Brook neighborhood and from 1938 and the the first page is the first page of that brochure and the second page you you have highlighted some language there m uh why don't you read the part when you
answer can you say yes instead of I'm sorry yes so we don't know sorry get closer apologize um so the second page of O exhibit 0-1 what why did you include that or perhaps just read it and tell the board
what the importance is to you yeah that'll tell it I think uh the many fine homes that have been erected in Spring Brook estate have contributed toward uh toward forming a mature firmly rooted Community the feeling of spaciousness conveyed by wide treelined roads is
enhanced by the houses which because of the large plots maintain a respectful distance from the road and from each other and then the next sentence goes on to talk about uh peace privacy and contentment in the neighborhood is that
right yes and do you feel this is this is an old brochure 1938 yes right but do you feel that the neighborhood is maintained how would you describe it has the the neighborhood maintained that
that that character over the years yes there's many original homes in the house in the neighborhood that are beautiful manicured properly beautifully maintained um yes I think everything is still as it was back then and F to flip to the third page
of-1 again being respectful of the board's time we're not going to read this but you highlighted some language and you were focused on the trees why because I think that's a very important part of the Spring Brook Community the beauty of the very old mature trees that
give us the privacy and it's just it's the beautiful beautiful setting um and this no let's not read everything the board the board can certainly read along as we're we're testifying um and you the fourth page of
-1 that's actually your residence that you highlighted yes and is there anything else in 01 that you wanted to highlight to the board now I think the first couple of pages that we read from kind of summarize what I'm trying to get across
the beauty of the neighborhood and we don't want to lose that by allowing this kind of overdevelopment okay okay so let's uh flip to exhibit o-2 is this a picture of your house no this is a picture of the applicant's house
yes and the uh tell the board what's important to you in this picture well that's an aerial view of the property currently um there was an addition put on the home in 20110 so this shows current status and size of the home but it shows open area and it trees on each
side that buffer the new Jen's property at 38 buffer my property looking at this angle on the right hand side on the eastbound side um big beautiful open backyard um spectacular patio it's been mentioned that that patio was not
functional I've been to many parties on that patio it's a beautiful patio um for the board's understanding in o-2 where where was the addition oh uh just you could say left or right side yeah the left side there four vertical Windows
above that that is now the master bedroom suite and do you know when that addition was done 2010 and for the purposes uh of looking at O2 and we're going to go over this a few times I would say um the portion of
the applicant's current property that's closest to your home could you point that out for the board in O2 yes just you have to describe it because they can't see your picture well in the right side of the the building and the structure is the current driveway and you can see the back of the two-car
garage um and then to the right there's trees and a the driveway goes up to the road okay so the right of the picture shows the trees that provide privacy to your property correct and the uh the garage that's pictured to the right of
the building with the four Windows that's the portion of the current residence that comes closest to your property correct and it's just a garage nothing above the garage but attic space currently and that's that's the part that currently encroaches on the sidey guard setback already Yes okay and
currently uh the portion that is closest to your property and encroaches on the setback that's just a garage with no living space correct okay so heated garage okay so the the uh it's one story with no
living space windows that face your property correct okay let's move to O3 can you say something about the garage height of cars that sure we can we'll get there okay okay uh could you tell the board
what 03 is yes that's an aerial uh photo these were taken from one of the times that I had the house listed for sale uh the subject property the applicant's property is in the middle my home is to the right the nents are at 38 that's home is showing to the left okay and
you're is is the purpose of showing this property to show how much uh tree screening there is between the two properties that and also I think it's good to see a um example of size of the three homes together they're talking about almost doubling what's there now
and it's going to look completely out of scope but between the other homes around it and this also show allows the board to see another picture of the garage that's encroaching on the sidey yard setback and the minimal impact on your property because it's only one story
right all right let's keep moving uh in 04 you have attached uh the 40 Spring Brook Road existing floor plan correct and is the purpose in showing the existing Flor plan simply to show that it was four bedrooms
upstairs well I think yeah four bedrooms upstairs and just to show what the layout is currently of of the first floor and the basement okay which is just finished walk out and you actually marketed this house a number of times yes including the last time it was sold
correct and when you marketed it did as as as someone in the profession did you have any observations as to whether it was undersized or didn't have utility or wasn't desirable undersiz no no the first time
I had it on the market was 2008 uh that time there was a family of parents three kids and a part-time Nanny and the home had one single bathroom and a powder room in the first floor they all live there like that um that was sold in 2008
uh to the family that did the addition in 2010 um so this is this is a a floor plan obviously current current uh design of the home so after the addition was done in 2010 but it's I think it's important to see the flow it's a classic
flow similar to every home in Springbrook and the second page of 04 two of three that shows the four bedrooms on the second floor yes and then the third page also shows the basement and the basement uh had a room that was listed
as officebedroom it's not listed on the floor plan as officebedroom the nanny I think when uh previous owner went they were there they they stay down there okay it's also a walk out basement and there is a mudroom there I think it uh the June meeting it
was mentioned that there was no mud room there is a mudroom you go up five or six steps that you can see on the floor plan at the top left of it um I think it was also mentioned that there was no drainage there there is a drain there it probably just hasn't been flushed if it's flooding down there the drain needs to be flushed okay let's look at
05 um tell the board what 05 is this is the right side of my home looking toward 40 Springbrook and that big beautiful tree is on my property um and it's in Jeopardy here
okay and the next page of 05 uh looking I stepped up in my driveway a little bit closer to the road looking back towards what where that tree is you can see the back left portion of the current home and if this
addition were to be added on that's all I'd see back there fre St reason and let just for the board's illustration currently in the picture uh we're looking at uh a 2.4 of the architect's drawings and currently in
the picture you can see this window yes right there okay that's the white window the the one that's showing yes the one that's showing and you're trying to show in this picture that if that tree is gone and this addition showing the lower
uh proposed elevation that you'll see all of this with no screening Mr chairman that's not the left elevation that she will see proposed left elevation there's another one that's longer though another one that has the entire whole thing that only has the
dining room there's another one that shows can we flip ahead yeah I mean it's almost it's about double the size of what's there now okay that's a lot worse yes um
so what I was so referencing I'm sorry I don't there's hard to compare now's no marking on this so is it possible to reduce that so we can see the Architects page number we let scroll down would the uh 2.5
okay thank you thanks so uh again miss sers uh referencing the architect drawing 2.5 um I'm pointing for the board's reference I'm pointing at the window that is depicted in the picture on your 0-5 right and what you're trying to show
is that you would see the proposed left elevation addition if uh that tree was not there or was comom yeah that and the other uh rubbery and things that are going to be jeopardized so that's almost double the length of the home that's
there now all right let's keep let's keep moving to the board's the board's time the next picture in o-5 okay that's standing in my front walkway looking straight across to the
existing home okay and this is showing that the closest part of that home to you is the one-story garage part yes and you can't see the one window of the garage you could see the other window of
the garage a little bit but it's not living space right not from this angle you can't see it right and again referencing back 2.5 that's on the screen uh that window it shows the board how high that window would appear above what's currently
there yes yeah because they're talking about raising the garage and putting a bedroom up there the height of the garage with Windows looking in the board knows the uh the plans by now y sorry uh 05 you
tell us the last page of 05 H that's standing uh back left of my house sort of the left part of the grassy area of my yard looking straight up towards the road you can see the top of my driveway which is a circular driveway okay and I
see in that picture I see some structure um the structure on the right like for want of a better description the sun's shining on that's your house yes okay and then from your backyard it's showing how little of the applicant's house you can see on the
left of this picture correct okay thank you okay let's keep moving 06 okay that's a front yard little different season um more of a view of what's there now with leaves of ler trees on that property okay and again I
don't want to be redundant so we keep moving for the board but showing the garage with only partial views out the window and uh the windows that would be facing your house are set back the full length of the garage the ones that are there now yes yes
correct okay now let's move to 07 okay that stop stop standing at the road looking down my home's on the left the applicant's home is on the right now my property line is almost to the Belgian
block on the right hand side kind of swerves in as you go down I think you've seen the surveys um looking straight down between the two driveways okay and this this picture shows the vegetation between the houses y those are red maple trees right there but it also shows how
close the houses are yes and it also shows once again Mr chairman Mr B tends to testify on behalf of his Cent and she says yes I understand it let's let her answer the questions okay trying to save the board some time I understand I
understand he's objecting to the leading nature of the question does this picture depict how close the houses are yes okay and does this picture depict the uh the portion of the applicant's house that's closest to your house yes and how would you
describe that uh it's it's a d a garage been used by every it's garage no living space there so what is closest to my property line and my home doesn't have actual living space it's just the garage thank uh
eight that's the existing pointing to the existing garage where they're hoping to push almost four feet closer to my property line at a second floor there with a bedroom with Windows looking
right into my yard like a fishbowl Let's uh let's look at 09 tell the board what 09 shows okay that's a picture of that one is from my master bedroom looking out into my
backyard over my lower patio in the upper patio towards 40 Springbrook the applicant's property so his the applicant's property is on the right of this photo yes okay and what does it show lots of trees and
privacy go to the second page of 09 tell the board why you included that picture that's a picture from my master bathroom and what does the picture show with respect to privacy 100% privacy all trees and and uh
green which I would lose let's move to 10 oh no Okay can question the fence that's shown in there whose uh fence is that that's on the applicant's property was put in by the people in 2010 that did the
addition uh 010 tell the board what1 shows okay this is a picture from my guest bedroom on the second floor okay same thing looking towards the applicant's property yes and what's what's the point of showing the picture just to show the green and privacy that I have
currently oh you know what sorry the fence in the back left that is the neighbor behind I was looking right but I'm talking about the fence that's uh looking to the it's like in the middle just above the roof line oh that's the that's
40's uh that's what I was referring to thank you okay let's keep moving let's go to 11 okay this is this is a picture uh from my my guest from on the second floor is in the corner so this is from the window that immediately faces 40's
um property so it's overlooking the current driveway see the garage kind of in the middle of that second window you're looking straight across to uh 40's house currently and the point is to show the proximity of the houses proximity and to
show the Privacy that's there thank um second page of 11 let's see oh this is from the other guest room window the one in the back of the house looking straight back again showing the
trees and the green that's there and the Privacy all right let's move to 02 okay I so first of all where's this picture taken from that's taken from that's taken from the uh my family
room it's Up Above This slate patio that you see okay and in this picture you put out some yellow marker what what does what was the yellow marker supposed to I did I did a rough walk out of the depth
of get up in point yeah stand stand stand up and point to the board what you were trying to illustrate from there to there approximate on on a 2.5 yes where that's marked out with the red ribbons that's what is going to my direct view is going to be
of that between those two ribbons and do you know what time of the year this picture was taken that was I think that was before the October meeting while on this Mr chairman just so I'm clear ribbon is on your property yes okay oh
yes you just just so we're clear with the board you were trying to to not show the exact location of the point of 2.5 you pointed out you were just trying to show the measurement of that section of the house yes the approximate location
and from there up I'd be seeing that three-story building my yard is lower so it's going to seem even taller Topography of the street why don't we turn to 13 03 that'll that'll also
illustrate okay same thing just a different angle just marked out um approximates CU I walked it and got a tape measure where that building would be if it and I'd be looking at straight back that's in the middle of my backyard the upper part of my backyard okay and
so this shows the elevation change so you're looking up at that property yes yeah the whole street we all know now from all the testimony but the street tapers down and uh 04
ah this was the first marketing BR Shure that I prepared when I put the house on the market in 2008 when it had one full bathroom Okay was it was 2008 Market wasn't as strong as it is now sold it for 9.98 with one bathroom and a half
bathroom in the first floor okay let's uh the board can take a peek at that but we won't spend more time on that let's look at 05 okay this is a brochure that I prepared in 2016 when I marketed the home at that
point after the addition had been done in 2010 so that's a view from the street of the front yard and and uh just for the board's understanding there's there's pictures of the house in 2016 in 05 yes in the
subsequent Pages yeah the rest of this is was my complete marketing brochure shows the the second page of that brochure you can see the master suite that was put on with the high ceiling um a second bathroom all the bathrooms were redone in this house in 2010 think at some point the architect said they
were original they are not they were all redone in 2010 um and the people that put the addition on pushed out as we talked about over that patio and made the master suite with a beautiful second full bathroom up there it's got radiant
heat flooring it's got a jacuzzi tub steam shower it's beautiful it was beautiful okay um o 16 is uh you uh retained a Forester to look at the Trees of the property yes can I ask a question
is that is that Forester gonna testify yes I'm skip past it because he's here he's here okay and then uh 07 which we've left in the back of the brochure we've left loose because it's a larger
piece did you tell the board this is uh this is an aerial plot map um yellow highlight is 40 Springbrook my home on this is to the right I'm lot 55 nents are lot 53 on the other side okay and could you uh tell
the board uh what this shows about the size of the houses on the property on the street I'm sorry they're all consistent with the lot sizes that are there um I think that's important and uh across the street it looks like most of
those lots are4 something Acres up to.5 yeah there's some bigger ones down next to me is 1.17 Acres Richard Wade's on the other side of that he's got a bigger lot and then 50's got 1.81 I think Acres that came up at some point in someone's testimony too it's
got a three car garage it's got a lot size four times what the applicant has okay almost and um again the board can visually look at this but in the houses that you've depicted which is U either uh maybe 10 or 11 of them what's what's
the range of the the square footage of the houses they're all pretty similar none of them are near what is being proposed but what's what's the what's the range on the on the low end it looks like that's me I'm 2969 and I have 087
acres and on the high end let's see we've got uh looks like 44 4400 square feet yeah that's uh that's uh lot 18 I think that was 30 I think it was
35 okay so miss sers you're um so those are the exhibits you want to present to the board so that the board can understand the impact of what's proposed on you person yes and this is um this is not just very sentimental to you it's
very emotional to you it is emotional I've worked tell the board be happy to I've worked very hard my whole life to be able to afford a beautiful home If This Were to be passed it's going to jeopardize my property value it's going to ruin my quality of life in the backyard because I'll be looking like
I'm living in a fishbowl with all those windows looking into my backyard I'm a realtor almost 30 years people look in Spring Brook they don't want to look at houses three-story houses and it is a three-story house because it's a walk out basement and my yard just for the record you pointing
again at a 2.5 yes so let's say there's that part of the their backyard I'm down here so it's going to look even bigger I can tell you as a realtor showing homes in very well vers in the springb neighborhood obviously have so many
homes in there multiple times if I had a buyer looking at I said look at how close that is next door you look like a fish pull they can look right in your backyard they can look right in your front yard 14 or so feet from the property line and uh I'm going to ask you to uh
in illustrating that I'm going to ask you to flip back to 03 and uh you can put this in your own words but in 03 part of what it illustrates is that there's uh that that 40 Spring Brook Road has quite a bit of
backyard yes yeah and would you have objected as strenuously if the addition went back into that yard rather than towards your property no okay well elaborate on that so you tell the board how you feel about that if the addition
had come towards the backyard more rather than coming into the sidey yard setback how would that be different for you it wouldn't be so close to my property line I'm going to lose my privacy I'm going to lose the buffer of the tree lines that are there I mean they were talking about 15ot Arbor VY to
cover this up this is a 40 and a half story a 40 and A2 foot building they're talking about and again my yard is lower so it's going to seem even taller there's no Ary that's going to grow that tall that the deer aren't going to eat first to cover that up what else what else do you want the
board to know about how you feel about the addition it's too big for the neighborhood it doesn't fit in the scale of the homes around it on that lot size it's less than a half an acre of property I mean the um Architects Architects assistant in the June 10th meeting said that the total
square footage first floor second floor and the finished lower level both of which are walk out 6916 Square ft my home's 2900 plus Square F feet it's too big it doesn't fit in with the scale of the homes around it and it's going to jeopardize
the beauty of our neighborhood and you uh the applicant uh architect and maybe his planner spoke about the need for more garage space could you uh testify as to what you've seen as to the parking requirements of that house oh yeah
everybody that's lived there since I've been involved with that or to live next door to that house and that's three families and renters you don't have to show the paper just tell them I just going to look at this height um the last people that were in that house were were tenants they didn't use
the garage for their parking they used it for storage because they come from two big houses excuse me I'm this to miss sellers qualifications testified a parking need how many garages should be
I I think she's she's a familiar with the neighborhood um I'm G to let her testify thank you um the garage is 8 feet tall right so that's well yeah and I I don't want to
get into the the specifics of it because it's it's not important for my question but you've lived next to this property you've seen the neighbors yes over the 21 years you've lived there you've seen the neighbors park there everybody's used that garage with the exception of the tenants because they only use it for store
two owners ago had a Jeep Cherokee 2016 Jeep Cherokee on one side while for a year they built a 7 foot wide 16 foot hovercraft so they had enough room for that Jeep Cherokee and enough room for the father and son to work and build that hovercraft it's not a tiny garage
and have you seen the neighbors uh that have lived at 40 park on the driveway sure yes have you seen Neighbors in your neighborhood also use street parking absolutely for Gatherings and absolutely there were Christmas parties holiday
parties this year um cars up and down the street you want to tell the board anything else about about the application about how you feel about it I think you're I think you've given them an organized picture as to why you think it would impact you and how you feel
about it check my notes hang on oh excuse me I think I covered everything but I think we have to protect the Integrity of our beautiful neighborhood this is it's too big for the lot it's going to jeopardize my property value as I've said it's going to jeopardize the Neighbors on the other side the nen's property value though
they're not as close as I am to what's being proposed um people don't come to Spring Brook to look at these mcmansions which is what I would call this it's a beautiful home but it needs to be on three acres in mendum or Harding not on less than a half an acre in Springbrook Mr chairman that's all I have for this witness
I okay I'll follow whatever procedure you like follow Council 04 is the sales grocer put together in 2008 is thaty yes yes s for that no it sold for $9.98
had one bathroom upstairs and it sold for 9.98 in 2008 and then brochure that's 05 I had two notes first I had was 2010 then I had was 2015 no it was 2016 201 yes and 2010 date is when the owners at
that time did the big addition and remodeled all the bathrooms oh let's talk about heating there's been it's come up about the multi zones of heating in the home there's another question for this is 2016 I don't see on
that a million 250 we got a yes got a million 250 which was the sale price when Mr euwing bought it also I talk about the heat though was it too late it's been brought can I go
ahead good it's been brought up that there are seven heating systems in this home the first floor has Radiator heating system the second floor entire heating system was redone in this 2010 Edition that's a for aair system set separate air
conditioning there and on the first floor there's radiant heat flooring which is an upgrade in the kitchen in the office in the master bathroom and in the um Hall bathroom upstairs so it's not an inefficient heating system when you've got radiant heat floor which in
any standards of real estate today is considered an upgrade board members any questions chairman I have a question sure I'm I'm looking at um the picture in exhibit 3 03 I'm looking at your house next to on
the right correct your house is on the right yes and it looks to me like you have addition on that house was that all original or were the additions I think the sun was probably put on uh sometime in the 80s if I remember correctly when I bought the house I was told that by
the um building office that's on the right side of the house that's on the left side of the house on the right side of the house that you see there on the back right that was actually the original Garage in my home and at some point since 1938 someone converted that
to be a family room and added a garage on the front of the home um which is not obviously in the picture in the original brochure I didn't do any additions so thinking of the brochure because this
was part of the testimony several times um have there been a lot of these were homes that were advertised in 1938 um my first thought is most of the township wasn't even developed 1938 so there's lot of what used to be very
pristine places that are no longer pristine places there's homes so that's typical of the township the last 90 years that what used to be nice forest or nice pastures or whatever are no h no homes
so I'm not that convinced about that but I've driven through the neighborhood quite a bit and there are a lot of homes there that are not original 1938 homes maybe their 60s maybe they 70s maybe they 40s or 70s or 80s I'm not even sure what years they were
so to to get the picture right of the neighborhood it may have originally been beautiful 1910 1920 1930s but things change over time and it's not all 1938 you know stock homes and there have
been additions there have been tear Downs perhaps and new H homes built so it's not all that that original type of development am I correct say the upper end of Spring Brook from you know my house across the street and up for the most part those are old
original homes as you say up you got to say decide say which way you're going on up drive I guess up out of my driveway left heading up towards the golf course that's the older more original part of Spring Brook there are some tear Downs like 50 Spring Brook was a tear down but
that's on one point something8 Acres got a three car garage but it's and it's 4200 and something square feet but it's on a almost four times or so what what uh the applicant has and that's in scale for that lot size in my opinion this is
not question have Mr any other questions I just have a a question about as we went through the tabs the um pictures that were shown were mostly in the summer showing the privacy and the screening and all that
with the exceptions of 12 tabs 12 and 13 which seem to be taken I guess more in a I think they took those in the fall before without the foliage on the trees so um so just interested in your comments if if for 12 and 13 had that
been taken in the middle of the Summer with the full trees and Bloom and foliage would you agree that the what we're seeing there in terms of your view shed would be drastically different yes i' see trees not you know bare trees for the
fall I I think I took in October I didn't date them unfortunately thank you followup to that I'm sorry um the applicant is proposing to plant trees on that side right 15 foot Arbor VY that's not going to cover that is is that the
starting height or is that the final height 15 to 25 foot Arbor VY hold on I listen to that meeting this morning and then she was talking about 12T double file VI Burnham pring that right 12 foot in front of somewhere in
front of the three- LEL building that's not going to cover that from my yard it'll be beautiful but it's not going to cover it I'm going to be seeing a 40 and A2 foot building and again my yard is lower so it's going to seem even taller from from my perspective and they're going to be
looking right into my backyard right into the back of my house and and I'm not sure Mr chairman if this is a question for um this witness or um your agricultural person but what if anything do you believe is going to be destroyed on your property
in terms of trees the tree um person's going to talk there's a big Maple that's been big Jeopardy and I'd like to let him talk about that yeah we'll we'll get that okay thank you thank you okay one more question yes so your
biggest complaint is that uh he wants to take down on his property correct no that's not my biggest complaint my biggest complaint is that this what's being proposed here is too big for the lot size it's going to be too close to my property way too close to my
property um I'll have Windows looking in my backyard I think the architect made a comment at the first meeting about and I can quote it I wrote it down well it's not like you'll be looking in her bedroom it's going to look right up at that back of my house so it will be and the rest of the rooms in the back of my house my my mistake cuz I just see
pictures of trees in here no no no problem that's one of them but that's not the biggest the biggest is it's too big for that lot so when you're I have a question when you're um sitting out on your patio will that be direct uh your your back patio will
that be like directly if you look out towards the uh the Ying property would you be looking right at the uh the proposed Edition yes I have three patios and I'd be looking at it from all three patios
and with is the the lower patio uh below the level of the uh ground uh on the uh at 40 Spring Brook um both of the properties slope back but mine is lower so it slopes back
I don't know five or six feet lower than what 40's Topography is um right now it's I think that's a brick patio the lower one and I I think it's it's currently lower it's definitely now it's lower than what's over there now so I
would be looking up at that it would seem even taller than the 40.5 Ft um any members of the public have any questions of this witness yes m n there questions it is a question good I just state your name for the record
please Leanne new Jan 38 Spring Brook Road Maggie you mentioned that the overall house with the addition would be 696 square feet of finished space that
was a I have that in my notes as well we're uh where did we both get that from we got that from the architect's assistant in the June 10th meeting okay wonderful I thought that was the same but yet I don't see it anywhere on the
plans so I so that's what I wanted to verify um also since you are a realtor and know the neighborhood so well are there any other homes of that size on this
especially well just on that size there are homes in the neighborhood on that size lot but not the size that they're proposing to build the square footage is my question there's a home on uh 16 Hilltop that's under contract now that's on over 2 acres and that was uh
the exact square footage hold on oh yeah 50 Spring Brook is 4782 we're going about square footage that's on 1.85 Acres that was a tear down um and rebuilt in uh not sure I
remember um will ly did that so that's 4782 Square ft it's on 1.85 Acres I think that's the biggest lot on Spring Brook 60 in Hilltop Circle which now under contract that's 6276 square feet still smaller that's on 2.19 Acres almost five times what the
applicant has okay great so there's nothing even of this size no not that size lot okay any other members of the public with questions seeing none hearing none close the public portion councel call your
next witness um Art Smith please thank you I mean the um landscape Mr I will give me one second oh sorry
yeah Mr Smith would you stand and raise your right hand please do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you back yes thank you uh Mr Smith uh tell the uh board who you're employed by and what your
profession is I'm a State Certified residential real estate appraiser I'm self-employed by Arthur J Smith appraisals and how long have you been doing it I've been appraising residential real estate in Mars County since
1985 and uh what licenses you hold I have the state certification okay and just describe for the board what what level of license the state certification uh state certification allows you to pra appraise up to and over a million residential
real estate up to and over what does that mean if you have residential license you're only C uh licens to praise properties up to a million dollars and certification allows you to praise over a million dollars okay so no limit not okay correct and Mr Smith you
have a a geographic area that you uh specialize in I limit myself to Mars County uh Livingston Short Hills Burns Phil and Baskin Ridge that way I have a local knowledge of the real estate market and I can provide an accurate opinion of value and uh with respect to this
application uh would you tell the board what you were asked to uh observe and uh make some analysis I was asked to observe the uh proposed addition to
this property at 40 Springbrook and to determine if it have any impact on the marketability of the surrounding properties excuse me can you speak into the microphone sure thank you I was uh
requested to observe or look at the proposed addition for the uh property at 40 Springbrook and give my opinion as to if there's any impact on the marketability and value of the surrounding property
and with a focus on Miss sell's property correct okay and uh tell tell the board what you observed and uh what your opinion is uh I observed uh that the violation of the
setbacks to the rear and side lines would uh limit the rear yard privacy to the surrounding properties and therefore would have a negative impact on the marketability and the value of this the surrounding properties and why is that
because market value lies that a typical buyer would pay for a home all things being considered and the typical buyer that would be looking at the Springbrook neighborhood would place a high value on rear yard privacy and utility and if you
were appraising 42 Spring Book now would you be uh placing value uh on the setback in the Privacy yes because it's typical for the neighborhood and what uh is your opinion
if this uh application was approved what is your opinion about what it would do to the market value of this seller's property it would probably or most likely extend the marketing time and impact the
marketability and therefore value in a negative what and are you able to calculate with Precision an estimate as to what the the reduction in value would be uh I was not able to find any
comparable sales or information of similar situations in the Springbrook area in uh Mars Township or surrounding neighborhoods within the municipality so it' be very uh difficult to measure the
impact of the uh proposed addition on the the value of the sub of the seller's property I again explain why you couldn't find a comparable situation because in my travels through
the municipality over the last 40 years I have not run into a property that sold with a a similar addition or a neighbor with an addition that goes extends into the backyard and limits the privacy of the subject
property to this magnitude correct okay is there anything else so your your testimony is that you believe that it will impact the uh fair market value of the seller's home and perhaps the
neighborhood uh but you we can't do we can't do perhaps we got to do probable so you give the board your conclusion one more time so I I don't say that the addition would most likely have a negative impact on the market
marketability and therefore value of the surrounding properties and so you said property is floral but testify adjacent to the rear uh as far as the street itself possibly uh throughout the excuse me you can't
say possibly it's got to be it's got to be probably it's going to be more likely than not if not it's not admissible Pro uh probably um would limit it to the street surrounding immediate streets but the would would your testimony be
that and the reason you're here is that would have the most effect on Miss seller's property correct I don't have any further questions and you said you can't when you say you couldn't put a value on uh
the prop uh on the uh appraisal of um Miss seller's property uh with this addition uh put in place because there's no similar situation anywhere you could find in the township or the surrounding neighborhoods nothing I could find okay
where where it the neighboring property extends as far back into the rear yard of the subject property or Miss sell's property so you couldn't find anything that you could use as a comp correct or derive a paired sales analysis out of
it but uh correct me if I'm wrong but you're saying that if this uh addition was put in place it would have some negative effect on the salability of the seller's property right would have and how would you characterize that uh
impact on her property it would be negative and can you give any kind of degree as to negativity again without a paired sales or Market or marketing analysis and lack of sales of homes that
have taken place recently or in the past couple years years uh with similar situations I have not I have not seen that in the Spring Brook neighborhood or surrounding neighborhoods within the municipality okay so you're basing your opinion on your experience yes
okay any other board members with questions Mr Smith given consideration to the proposed um renovations to the 40 Springbrook property what would your opinion be about the value of that property going forward should
Mr if should the the property owner decide to sell that property after I have not been prepared a a formal opinion of value or researched any comparable sales on that so I would not be able to to render an opinion of value at but you've
seen the proposed renovations right and I've seen the existing but I I have not prepared a formal uh appraisal in in which I could give a an opinion value
okay any other questions from board members yeah what's the apprais value of uh 42 Spring Brook right now again I was not commissioned to do a market appraisal just to give my opinion on the impact of the proposed addition
on so you don't know you don't know what it is now but you know it's going to be less if this project goes forward right if they were for an example if they were going to put a a highway behind your house that would have a negative impact on your value yeah so or you know a
commercial building thank you any other questions just a couple Mr chairman what did you do to prepare for the test well I drove through the
neighborhood looking for properties with similar situations I went through the tax records looked at square footage of living area of surrounding properties on the street um acreage of surrounding properties on the street I looked
through the MLS for uh properties with similar situations it was not able to find any there plans on screen you look plans yes I did uh when I was here with the uh
for the past two or three meetings and they were uh they were uh provided to me by Miss sellers did you see the landscape plan I did did you take that into consideration yes Mr you had a question yeah I have a question so you indicated that um
there's a negative impact because of the length of that rear addition is that right I mean it it it could impact the the amount of sunlight in the rear yard impact rear yard privacy
um but do you have that opinion because it violates the sidey guard setback and the rear setback it doesn't violate it doesn't violate but it does extend back yeah so if he if he didn't violate the side yard setback right if he moved
this over 10 feet and wasn't in violation would you have the same opinion the height of the building the height is conforming to the Zone well would also packed so you think it would be neg
negative to miss seller's property if he built the fully conforming addition yes or no yes okay thank you okay any other questions no board members any other questions no any members I do have I'm sorry I I do have
a question because we have another we received another evaluation of the value of the home that's from uh applicants Council right so I'm wondering whether you've read that whether you could comment on it it was an appraisal on it wasn't an
appraisal it was it was assessment as to whether it would increase or decrease the value of the property and the surrounding areas no I was not pro that we I I just got that today St got went over I think it was early in
the morning it was 9:37 um okay uh any members of the public with questions of this witness seeing none hearing none close the public portion any other Witnesses yes call Mr
Linson you need you need five minutes we're going to take five minute recess then we'll be back this she these additions on her house Santiago roll call right Mr goldber here Mr jaberg here Mr
Williams here Mr Sher here Mr here M Simmons here Mr Woodford here Mr Ola here Mr Hansen here and Miss Sorry Miss okay you hiding
behind counselor uh Mr Linson perhaps you should stand yes would you raise your right hand please do you sol we swear that the testimony you will give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God would you say your full name please spell your last name uh John Dale Linson
Ln s o thank you you can be seated Mr Linson uh would you tell the board what your profession is um I'm a New Jersey licensed tree expert um New Jersey uh approved Forester and
international Society of Arbor culture uh certified Arborist how uh who do you work for um I have my own consulting firm um previous to that I worked for Milbourne Township for 25 years and retired in the last 20 years I've been
uh serving as a consultant uh I've consulted with over 45 municipalities and and Three Counties and Mr Linson just very briefly what's what's give the board the background of your educational experience um I I have a bachelor's degree in forestry from um ruter
University and do you hold licenses in New Jersey yes um I'm a New Jersey licens tree expert and um I'm a approved Forester with the D and have you testified before boards before yes I have about how many
times over the last 40 40 years 45 years uh many times um more more than 50 yes okay yes Mr chairman I would offer Mr Linson as uh an expert in uh the field
of uh trees Landscaping arboris in general so I have a question first archit landscape architect I didn't hear any I'm not a landscape architect okay so as a tree expert and Forester yes
okay you have a question I I do because this is the first time I've seen this actually a New Jersey licensed tree expert how how do you become a tree expert and licensed um it's it well when I passed it in 197 it was a a lot harder
because they didn't have courses to prep you for it uh but at that time it was a one day um exam given once a year as a both a field field test and uh and a written test um and you needed five
years experience in the trade before you could take it are there classes associated with it too I'm I'm sorry are there classes Associated there are now uh back then um there were not so um I it it took me two two tries to get
through okay I had never seen that before I just curious about that yeah are we accepting that yes okay U Mr Linson would you uh tell the board how you were engaged uh by
Miss um well um Miss sers um was concerned about uh the loss of of of trees with the this proposed um development next door and um she uh contacted me uh and asked me to prepare
a report and what did you do to familiarize yourself with the project and to analyze the situation um I went to the site and um she um was able to provide me with some some background information on the proposal um we did
not have you know complete um and this is going back a year year almost a year now um but we we were able to um we're able to find the U the property corners and
um uh and and uh determine um where where the trees were in relation to the proposed project and did you make some uh observations or conclusions about the
trees that form the for lack of a better term the HED Ro between the the two properties uh um yes I was um starting um back in this area okay so you're pointing just for the record you're pointing again to a 2.5 Mr chairman
that's not a survey of the property or the plan of the property he's saying setting a relationship there's no I think well we can we can bring that out in uh there's testimony and you can bring it certainly bring it out in Cross examination well true but then it takes
us longer inight I understand that but him Sago might be able to put up the plan that shows from above and then he well let him let let let counselor present his case and then we'll go from there uh back in this in approximately this position there's a um when you say
this position you're talking about the proposed edition first set of Windows is a um 25 in diameter yellow popler and uh pursuant to uh the mors township zoning ordinance 25 in tree uh qualifies as a
specimen tree which um is that on which whose property is that on it it's on it's on 40 42 on 42 41 40 I'm sorry 40 so on Mr Ewing's property yeah all of these trees that we'll be talking about
are except for one um are on the on the 40 Spring Brook um so that that um that yellow popper tree um basically qualifies as a specimen Tre which
according to your zoning ordinance it is designed to protect older specimen trees and encourage Carefree site design and Grading to promote the preservation of existing trees so is that is that the environmental regulations or the zoning that's this that's this this
environmental that's in um article 34 under 57- 162 tree conservation and protection yeah so let me just stop you there for a second that's not the zoning ordinance right that's our land use but it's not zoning so and I saw parts of your report
that's so it's not a variance and the um it's a homestead lot so Homestead lots are exempt from this ordinance okay um that's a nice tree it might but it's not protected by that or all right next to that tree is a Norway spru and next to
that tree is a Norway maple um out here at near toward the front of the house yeah at toward the front of the house there's three Japanese maples and the the most uh
um concerning tree is a u Norway maple that is um 22 in in diameter and it appears to be on the property line with the center of the tree on uh the seller's property
um so that that tree um would be basically be in the middle of of the wall the 3-ft wall that is proposed um the the landscape plan is a little
disturbing and just go go back to so the 22 inch U diameter uh nor nor Maple that would be between the two driveways or between now Jason um not two driveways between the driveway and the seller's home
okay and so the board can follow along your on your March 11 2024 report you have a diagram of the trees that you're discussing correct so the um so and John just so the board can look at this that's 06 in
the handout you gave out before right y okay I guess towards the middle of 06 I don't know how many pages in it is but there's is that the diagram you're talking about Mr linon why don't since the board
it's my fault that I should have alerted the board that that diagram was available so rather than you pointing at a 2.5 why don't you just go right down the property line you start from where you want start from the street or in the back and and tell the board what trees
are at issue for you okay I'm I'm not licensed land surveyor but I had a 100t long tape and um so I was able to measure in from the street curb and that's where you find these three
Japanese maples that are healthy and in good condition um going from the curb um 10.75 ft we we come to the center of
this 22in diameter Norway maple tree um and it's it's it appears to be on the line with the center of the tree on the sell's property so then proceeding um further to the far Corner uh that's
where we intersect with the uh Norway maple the Norway spruce and the yellow palper um so in and in between it's a hedge row of mixed vegetation um not
really form but um effective effectively screening uh between the two existing houses the um the landscape plan is a little disturbing and chman he's not a
landscape architect he can he can he can talk about the trees talk about the trees in the lands right so he he can then he can talk about the characteristics of the trees and how they may affect other the uh
I don't have any objection to trees about the landscape plan I have concern if he goes into well he's got these trees and I'm I'm um we didn't he is an arbor licensed arborist
and I don't know exactly what that encompasses but we can ask I want to talk about a species particular species of tree that is listed on the landscape plant okay um and that and that is uh the emerald green Arbor VY that is
proposed as a hedge between um the driveway on the wall um along the sellers property line now ruter puts out a brochure saying landscape plants rated by deer
resistance now interestingly enough um the the emerald green Arbor VY is listed um as a u let's see here it is right there they call it frequently severely
damaged that means that if you plant it the deer will come so it's really not an appropriate species to plant for for screening purposes and also that particular area um it's only about 3
foot wide between the driveway and the wall the Wall's 3 foot high you would be planting maybe in gravel uh but emerald green Arbor is very sensitive to drought and
uh and winter damage so it's it's it's a highly um exposed location for that species of of tree um I'm not aware of anything that really is going to be able to be planted in that very narrow area
uh to provide the existing uh screening to the existing level that we have at this time so um basically that that pretty much covers my my critique of the of the uh
proposal um you know it's just the um there's there's no way that you can plant landscaping that's going to provide uh the degree of screening that that presently exists between the two properties landscaping and screening not
Tre well screening it with the AR gets eaten away that's screening that's true but what but blanket statement of there's no way well you can bring that out on Cross examination I hear his uh contesting of
my credentials but uh I currently uh review all the landscape plans for the city of summit and Nutley Township and I've seen you at BMS uh seen you in action at BMS so um at any rate
um I'm not a landscape architect but I know what works in the real world and um not all Landscape Architects understand that trees need soil you're not just buying a a
container of detergent off off the shelf you have to know what works in the real world and um I don't I don't believe that this this hedge of emerald grin aror VY it's going to going to function in the real world and Mr Linson you um
in your March 11 2024 report uh We've referenced this diagram that you did and you you listed the trees that were along that property line some on the applicant side and and at least one rate on the
property line and will any of these trees um survive uh the the the construction of the addition and the construction not as is proposed um the uh they would all have to go and there was some talk with uh
respect to one of the larger trees that somehow the root system would be protected with uh building a wall in some specific fashion do you recall that testimony um you're referring to the the installation of a lentil uh in that wall
which would not require excavation for a footing um that can work in some situations uh we do it a lot with curving um on public streets but you have to realize there's three foot of fill going to go on top of that the U I
measured the the width of the um which tree are we talking about we're talking about the 22in diameter Norway maple that's on the property line so I I measured the uh the crown spread of that tree uh the the furthest extent of the
branches and it's 57 ft which puts 28 ft you know onto the 40 Springbrook Road property and and and 28 ft onto the seller's property so essentially 50% of the root system even with a lentil would
would be covered by three foot of fill there are aerification systems that can go in but um in my mind um you know this tree U is not going to survive you you know you would have to build a u you
know semicircular uh wall around the tree uh staying away from the trunk of the tree um it's not a real likely candidate for uh surviving that intense uh grading and anything else you want to
add about your examination of the trees uh on the property line well um if there were no development uh proposed uh the trees might last another 75 years but um
they they really U um it's it's sort of All or Nothing um if if if this proposal is is approved then all of the trees have to go but uh what you just said and Mr Schuster asked a question of the last
witness it's not the development going towards the backyard that's the problem no no it's it's the side yard that that encroaches um on the seller's property no no further questions Mr chairman board members any
questions Mr chairman I guess I'm just a little confused because we're looking yeah the the Landscaping is one thing and the construction of the
home is something else so the home the garage it's what is it six feet closer to the property line than the Zone allows and then the
homeowner um wiing is proposing barriers and trees and whatever along the property Lane line to help screen the sell's home from the new
construction so I certainly agree that we would like to make sure that whatever's built there survives um and the screening exists um maybe there's alternatives to what's existing proposed now I don't
know that the screening itself um I guess it could be a detrimental part I'm trying to figure out whether to what extent the screen issue affects the whole application I guess I'd be willing to I mean to ask you that question and to pose that to
the other board members as well I don't know if this is a time for that the screening uh of the garage and pool house there there will be sufficient soil Mass to support landscape material and 15 to 20 years
from now um they'll provide some decent screening of of that facility uh the problem is that the Hedge between the driveway and the wall um is uh the soil area is so small that uh it's such an
adverse environment um for for almost anything to grow so um that's that's my concern if the if the um applicant were able to pack enough soil in that part of the
property um to do exactly what you're saying um any type of tree could survive it what what from your professional opinion is there a particular type of tree or well generally uh you want to
stay um about 15 feet away from a tree uh in terms of grade changes um just because of the spreading of the of the roots so so could be some encroachment within the drip line of the tree uh but
uh not not 50% and so the the tree that sits smack dab in the middle according to to your yeah it's right on the line it's right it's right on the line yeah um and you you write the words here it's in Jeopardy there is no plan right now to
remove that tree is that correct that you know of I I I don't see how that tree could survive um I didn't see an x on it on the plans but it uh you really can't can't build a wall on so your
opinion is even though it appears that the tree is not going to be removed it may not survive the type of construction that's going to occur on well the thing is to that tree you know Mrs mellers has um uh depends on the shade of that tree
she has her landscape material is shade shade tolerant uh that that uh that tree shades the the sun room so her her her AC courses uh costs in the summer would be would be higher uh to uh to to cool
that room um so it just um it's an adverse effect on the seller's property is it 100% guaranteed that that tree will not survive nothing's
100% um there are extenuating ways of of preserving trees um when they're younger and and um uh this tree is it's it's mature um you know it still has a has a
life to it it doesn't warrant removal um but um you know trees there are aerification systems that can be installed um and and uh it's it is possible to to do grade changes the but
the least amount of grade changes you in know you can do but is the best um but using gravel and sand and uh aerification pipes uh radiating out from the trunk of the tree which would be under the driveway and under under
traffic um so it's it's um it it it's it's a big risk to try to save that train isn't that under the driveway now what was the question is it under the driveway now it uh the the root
system of the tree um does extend under the existing driveway it's acclimated over the years right but you know they would be adding adding more fill on top of that adding more fill because there's going to be a
fence along there as well I have to look at the drawing he's asking why there's going to be more fill because of you're build they're building a three-foot retaining wall on the property line so that's why there're why
there would be fill and I I I presume it's to provide a more even access to the the the Garage pool house to meet that elevation requirement but let me ask you this so you said you know there the probability
is that there is 52 feet of of root structure going right it's a it's a m a mature healthy tree so if part of that is destroyed right there's still enough root system in there to keep the tree
thriving yes cuz under we're not going to take away all extenuating circumstances I mean um I I've designed a system where where we put two foot of fill around a tree and you know 15 years later the
stre is doing fine but um you need you need expertise to uh Implement that okay and would you be able to design a similar structure for this tree we don't could you could you design
a system could you design a system for this trade well um would you just say that you shouldn't encroach so much into the sidey yard let the question I I would I would rather see see the um the driveway
stay further away from the tree well of course I think we probably all would um you know because if if the applicant were not seeking a variant on the side yard setback they'd still be facing this tree they would
have got theyd get their construction permit for constructing the home and they'd want to put this retaining wall up and it would be doing something with the tree and the owner's the owner's landscaper didn't
raise this issue this issue and so this is sort of the first we're hearing of it and so if they weren't seeking a Varian for anything else but they still were building the project would there be a way to save that tree it's not impossible to save that
tree uh it's it's just you know it's it's a mature tree old trees don't like change um and old people don't like change I've become very grouchy at 73
years old um and I short tempered um my family U has noticed that um that but that tree U it's not a real you know if if it was 20 years younger it would have a much better chance the the issue is
what happens five years from now when the tree dies that's that's the issue uh we we we could extend the life of the tree by doing some ex extenuating things but you know trees are factories and you know you're cutting down on on the
supply system uh you're you're you're reducing the the the water capacity and the nutrient capacity so you can you can supplement that through feeding and watering during the the hot the the hot months of the summer but um it's not an
exact science you know we we can't take the uh the red or white blood cell uh in in the veins of a tree and so a tree can look great and two weeks later it's brown um you know so it's just you know
there there are certain signs there are certain things we can try to do it's just not a wise investment on that particular tree thank you so to follow up on that what could be done though what what would
have to happen to to try to save this tree um the best thing would be to reduce the width of the driveway and stay at least 10 15 feet away from it if that could be done um the tree has a
much better chance of survival do you know how old the tree is I I would say it's about 60 I'm not sure uh probably somewhere near the age of the homes in the neighborhood and what's the average
lifespan um a Norway maple um can go 100 uh not much more than that of sugar maple a little longer but um you know they're they're basically it's pretty much uh at the nearing the end of its
life normal normal life so put additional stress on it is just going to accelerate its its decline I have a question about sort of additional stress that bring that up you indicate earlier in your testimony that
27% of the crown of the Norway maple extends over 42 Spring Brook Road so there's 27 feet of the canopy that goes yeah we you know we we talk about the drip line of the tree being where the active Ro roots are you know sometimes
they go beyond sometimes they're restricted by by uh by by rock or wall or or gravel um so whatever the soil conditions are but you know just theoretically we look at the the
furthest extent of the branches and go straight down and measure that distance and say that's that is the area where the most active root system is and in terms of the life that's going on up in the can if there's 27 ft that's extending over onto
42 of the applicant's property and the based on where the the proposed construction is going to be wouldn't some of that canopy have to be sheared off anyway to support the implementation of the propos you know again the um there there may be low
branches that that would be interfering with with uh passage on the on the on the driveway I I didn't actually look at that but um you don't want to do a whole lot of CR Crown reduction PR you can cut back
branches by about 20% uh to make the the tree more compact but more more excessively than that then and you're really U cutting into the the trees ability to survive because when I heard that so you
don't want to cut all the branches off on one side of the tree I would imagine not but when I heard about the 27 ft of the cranic standing over above the applicants where I was assuming that some of that is going to have to be sheared off to sort of some of those branches will have to come off I would I
would I presume but I haven't didn't look at it from that perspective I didn't I didn't go on to the the 40 Springbrook Road property itself and that just raises a question just for my maybe the board members in my own education because I've often wondered about this so when trees are extending over the property line the air rights so
to speak like who can the applicants can he decide to bring in someone to cut the what's the order of operations not but I can tell you from my experience um to the fact that it's only his experience he's not a lawyer or let the
board hear right um if you cut a tree back so severely that it dies then you know you're liable for the value of that tree and it could be a lawsuit between two neighbors so we we we have stand
standards and um pruning standards and basically in in one pruning session you can prune back the length of a branch by 20% and then wait another 10 years and you can cut it back again but um I I
have I'm involved in litigation in several instances right now where a neighbor came in and they cut everything on one side of the tree and and everybody's upset um so it just it getss nasty it
gets nasty but uh there are uh the American National Standard a3300 uh has has pruning standards and if you stay within that you're you're fine you know there's no reason why uh one neighbor can't cut back the branches
of his of his neighbor's tree but only to the extent where he's not um not actually killing the tree or or causing it you know causing it into shock thank you so I have a question for da was that okay legally no
no I was trying to get some free advice so Dave if if this came into your off into your office and or I don't know if you can ask for construction but let's say there were no variances associated with an addition and someone wanted to to do something here and put a
wall in this situation on the property line or just inside the property line and there's kind of it's going to impact this tree what happens in your office we would step back and tell them to get professionals and that if there's an
issue with the tree to contact their attorneys we don't get involved with trees okay so would you not issue the permit for the construction of the wall most likely in in that instance yes I would say unless relocate the the wall
to not impact the tree and there's a possibility with this instead of putting two walls to the property line combine it and give the tree four or five more feet and you'll make the inside wall
that's holding up the driveway a little bit higher but it's still less than six feet high so it still conforms you're going to have the variance anyway for the fence on top of the wall but at we you we I think we got rid of that because you changed it for the fence on
top of the wall by going with a fence was basically that's right the transparent right right and I'm not 100% but I agree with Mr Hansen that if you make it one wall that you don't have a variance yeah i' have to look at that
mull here to check it but I thought for some reason it was going to be seven feet yeah one wall one wall is three feet at that just before that tree and the other one is a foot and a half so you're looking at the than 5 foot at that point which is still acceptable
because we have walls up to six feet behind the face of the house so is that a way to address this problem could be well the issue I think becomes Mr Hansen would take a look as you get closer to the carriage house I
think if you combine the bottom of the wall along the property line the top of the second wall you're maybe you're not more than S ft you might be good okay six feet six feet okay but
that's something the board at the end of the hearing and we get approval and board want have go in that direction we can have a single one okay hopefully math we're doing is correct it's not a variance or is then
I'd ask VAR be granted i' let Kathy look at the numbers but uh the numbers are on the plan so okay and would that be the case because you said there were there's more than just the maple tree down that sideline that's a pretty large tree are there
other large trees that are similarly impacted by the wall proposed wall was that question I'm sorry I I left my hearing aids home the attorney is asking you that if they move the wall back a little bit would it have an effect on preserving
these trees I don't know that the applicant is suggesting that they're going to preserve the trees that are listed in your diagram in your March 11 2024 report um you you possibly could save some of
those Japanese maples um which out out by the street uh but I think um you know the the larger trees at the rear of the property um um I I I don't think
um you know again you'd have to stay 15 fet away from them uh to make a difference we understand that tree the Norway problematic in the sense that
according to Mr lindom it's it's on the property line according to Miss Miller Mueller's diagram it looks like it's on Miss seller's property and we can deal with that by changing that wall but the trees that are on my client's property
there's a plan to take them down it's a homestead lot it's not subject to uh tree uh you know restrictions on taking them down and there's a planed and heavily landscape for that so
it's it's an easy answer on that Norway M and the others I don't think especially without the landscape architect here that we would consent to changing anything else because we have a plan to repopulate that
entire the proper okay any other board members with questions to this witness any members of the public with questions of this witness if so come up to the microphone let's Miss Nan go first oh
she's deferred um just a question to the arbor can we have your name please first John mandelli address 11 carton Road okay um just the viability of all trees considering the
reduced sunlight in that area a 40ft structure structure right next to it could anything grad that would provide adequate screening excuse me can I have your address again please 11 carton Road thank
you well um if you're looking for trees that are going to be 50 ft tall um that's one thing but there there are many species that are shade tolerant um that provide screening and
um and then I mean there's deciduous trees and there's other green trees that are that are shade tolerant so um there there there's wiggle room um in answering that question there should be trees that uh a species that would be
comparable to the shade of a a building and I I believe um we're we're talking about early morning sun on the seller side um of of the um of the property so uh there there there there
should be a number of hours of daylight that would that would support trees 38 spring so we're on the other side of the property um of the things that the landscape architect has proposed on our side is
also uh emerald green arid 12 12 of them that she claims will give us privacy screen from the pool but that also is susceptible then to the deer what will that do to the
Privacy Screen um well with with deer you would you would be losing the the lower branches on those trees for the first six feet um they would and they're only she claims they're going to be sheared
to maintain 6 well there would need to be fencing to protect them from the deer the deer can be very resourceful they climb stairs they go through Gates um so when you're when they're hungry they'll they'll find a way uh I I think I think
it would be better if they explored a different spe species that the the deer would be less likely to to browse on okay thank you and then she also proposed five Green Giant AR are they
also the the deer um are less likely to to be a problem with them and they grow pretty fast and that's the um there's green Giants are the are the the fade The Fad tree of of of choice right now now and I'm
waiting for the bottom to fall out 20 years from now when some insect or disease uh problem is introduced into the country but people are planting them like crazy it's it's the it's the rage if you go back in time you know
flowering pear was supposed to be the you know the the the perfect tree then we found out it had weak crotches and it was invasive U so whenever you plant a monoculture but if planting three three green Giants would would be would be
fine she has five and then she said she's planting already starting at a height of 15 how wide would those be and then growing to 25t how wide would that be well green Giants will will grow to
be about 20 feet wide normally uh so I mean that's that's the danger uh people plant them 5 feet apart and they they want to be 20 foot wide so um a 20 foot from the fence to the to
the well they'll be they'll be growing into your your your your yard before you know it um but they they will provide some pretty thorough screening and they and they very often on the landscape plans you'll notice you know to be Field located so they they
may show three trees in a row or a staggered pattern but uh in reality um they may they may be the pattern could could vary uh in actuality so there's not even room for them then planting all these right on
our property line we have two very old established cherry trees very May one foot what will that well uh trees compete with each
other so if your tree Tre could be shading out the uh the newly planted trees uh they they're going to the roots are going to be competing for the same soil uh and and they may damage some of the roots when they're planting the new
trees that's so so it just has to be you know if they're hand digging that's one thing you know you can work your way around the roots but if you got a machine in there and they're just ripping uh they could do do damage cuz
you're I mean your roots are are on are on the 40 40s uh property okay thank you very much I don't know that we know that for sure right when you say that her roots
are on number 40s property walk you through how close well I'm I'm trying to understand that actually because I'm looking at the don't even think that accurate that you're looking at yeah it's on land is
definitely more than a foot away I do not think that is accurate is literally from our fence right the fence is not what this plan shows right is your fence fence is
in because it is our fence it's not a problem but just I'm just saying there's your fence and then to your side of the fence is your tree and then and there's more space between the fence and their proposed fence than what's between your
fence and your trie right so it's it looks longer on this plan yes right on that plan it does and you don't think this is accurate I don't I was going to get out there's so there are two trees I
can show you our photos that there's this large um Evergreen at the end of M eings in our corner and it says it's six foot wide well this tree wide first of all there
are two Evergreens back there and there's it it's massive it's not six feet wide there there's just discrepancies six in to six inch does it say six right six inches six does that
say 6 in yeah yeah 6 in that's 6 feet that's the trunk one that's the trunk that's a trunk diameter the diameter there are two there I mean there's just discrepancies well the plant shows two at 8 inch and then one to his back right
cornered at six inches right but that's the diameter of the tree not thees there so there are discrepancies there there's a six foot and then there's 28 feet no 6 inch and 6 in and 28 I'm sorry I'm getting confused
myself so adjacent to where the proposed pool is going to be is two uh 8T 8 in 8 in sorry right okay know I've just been assured nothing's going to happen nothing's
going to happen um any other questions from MERS of the public close the public portion counselor any other no Mr chairman okay Mr chairman I just wanted to ask one question just so I'm 100% clear this
all the trees oh sorry come on back I no come on back why don't we let the witness testify yeah nice try clear all the trees except one yes
one the other one that one the Norway maple is either on the line there is a an iron Stak um that's right up against the tree that is um I I mean I I assume a surveyor put it
in I don't I don't know I didn't put it in but uh it you know it looks to me like it's like 6040 or 55 45 um but it's it appears that the center of the tree is on the seller's property
and if Miss Mueller located that tree the center of the tree on Miss s's property being that she is in this surveying engineering field not unlike you would you defer to that conclusion Mrs oh Muller is the um
landscape architect she's the engineer yeah um again I'm I'm not a surveyor but um wherever the center of the tree is it is you know whether whether she's not a surveyor
either she's a landscape architect no she not oh oh she's oh she oh oh that's right engine okay all right well she might be a surveyor no yeah I heard you talk before about you found out that flowering pears were
invasive isn't Norway map in yes it is anybody else has any questions seeing none hearing none okay I'm going to make another run for it thank you so Dave what do you have left I
don't know Mr Mr Ur are you arrested okay what do you have like we have Josh maof our appraiser that's it it's almost five to 10 are we gonna finish this tonight I don't think so we got public comment
yeah we G have public comment which might take a while discuss it we're gon discuss get because cou here have com we get him inair we have to come back
so if we get if we get the appraiser in then you guys would be in position to sum up right and we'll do whatever public there might be and that would be the next meeting the public already gave they did but we've heard additional testimony so you know they can kind of
have a second bite a little bit so you know we'd have some public testimony perhaps we'd have you two guys Su up and vote at the next meeting right all right so why don't we put the put on and let's get going okay thank
you okay would you raise your right hand please you Solly swear that the testimony you give to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God okay and your name for the record please uh my name is Josh
moff tell your last name please m a c k FF thank you Mr moff Mr maof Could you um the board on your experience in fact I realiz CV CV yes it
is okay it's going to be a13 thanks thank thank you Mr M the board has CV they have every detail but you could hit the highlights so speak I am a uh State Certified General real estate appraiser
I have been for close to 30 years I hold an MA designation which is presented by the appraisal Institute which is an advanced degree in real estate appraisal um I'm experienced in appraisal of all types of properties I
have appeared before boards and testified in court we will accept your credentials we're an expert and real State appr appraise thank you board what you did to prepare to appear
here tonight um I have attended uh this is my third hearing on this matter so I have uh been witness to the um Engineers presentation the architect's presentation uh the planner's
presentation I have um seen the exterior of the subject property and uh I have done some research into the uh more recent sales of homes in the spring grub neighborhood
area did you look around the neighborhood yes I'm familiar with neighborhood both from recent inspection and uh living in the area for over 30 years you been summarized for the board
in terms of the house and the neighborhood What You observe uh spr Brook is a wellestablished neighborhood it's a very desirable neighborhood the homes are lovely um they're all
generally in good condition or or above average condition um the values in the neighborhood seem to be um well established through uh a fairly active uh Market over the past few
years um most of the homes that have sold over the past two years have sold quickly and for more than the listing price um some of that is obviously because of the neighborhood's desirability and a lot of that is just in this current market there's such an
imbalance between supply and demand that there's just far more demand than there is Supply and the reality is there's no new homes being built in this area so I don't foresee that changing in the near future I think it'll continue to be a
strong market and values of homes will continue to increase um when it comes to uh the subject here and it's U um Remodel and enlargement I think that a home that is
90 years old is probably you know nearing the end of its economic life and it's in need of updating and both to meet Market standards and just to maintain the H's value uh as is probably so with many of the homes in the neighborhood um it's a typical cycle in
real estate uh as far as how it will affect the neighborhood uh I believe that the upgrade of this home will bring up the value of all the homes in the neighborhood and that goes because the way homes are typically valued is by
comparison uh when they sell and they're compared to on a square footage basis um so a newer updated home will sell at a higher price and probably at a higher price per square foot which would then be reflected in the sales of other homes in the neighborhood
um the uh the argument that the enlargement of this home would be detrimental to the value of the neighboring homes I personally I don't agree with it I think think that the main criteria when homes are valued are location age condition uh number of
rooms its functionality those are the issues that I think buyers look for the is those are what appraisers look at when they value homes and make adjustments for things that are above or below what we would consider the normal Market the
typical Market um in this case uh I I don't think the uh view of a neighbor's home is detrimental uh to to a home I think it's fairly typical in most neighborhoods where you see the neighbors houses uh so I do not believe
there's an adjustment that could be applied to the neighboring homes for the expansion of uh the subject home um and then I would go back to in this particular Market I think that prices keep going up and I imagine they
continue to go up for the foreseeable future and uh there will be great demand for any home that comes out on the market in this neighborhood so then your conclusion with regard to the effect on the value of homes on the
neighborhood is that there will be no negative effect no I don't see any negative effect in fact I predict a somewhat positive effect just by upgrade of the neighborhood in general and the the appraiser that uh testified earlier regarding the seller's
home what's your conclusion with regard to the effect if any uh there would be uh I think that that the upgrade of 40 Spring Book will ref will reflect well on on her home uh you know as the
hes become more valuable it's sort of a rising tide lifts all boats and I think that as one home is improved it raises the value of the home next door because there's potential there um again I think that the most important factors in
valuing residential real estate are location condition age number of rooms functionality you know those issues it's not uh it's not view of the neighbor's house I I do not know of any way to a
that an appraiser could adjust for that uh just uh it isn't typical so um I think that by up up grading this this home the neighboring homes will will benefit from I have nothing further M
if let me see if I can get this stated correctly um so you're saying that uh even putting this EXT uh this addition to the rear of the house putting it
within 14 and2 14 and a/4 feet of her property line so that when she has in her backyard and looking towards 40 uh Springbrook and she sees this almost towards the rear of that uh
the extension almost 40 feet or almost 45 ft uh above her because if you follow the roof line out it's 40t and she said she's down about another 5T so she would be looking up at something that's 45 ft above her you're saying that's not going
to have an effect on the salability of her house I don't believe it will and you're saying it's not going to affect the price of the house I don't believe it will and you don't think it would uh have some potential buyers look elsewhere because they don't want to have that structure next to them I can't
speak for those buyers okay but in your experience some people will not want to live next to a house like that I have no experience with that so I don't know um if she put an addition on her house and put it within 14 ft of the property
line and built a similar structure would it have an effect on uh Mr Ying's property I think it would have the same effect that I described it would have his expansion will have on her property so you don't think it'll have any negative effect whatsoever on her
property in fact be a positive effect yes okay anybody any else with questions counselor any questions Mr mov your testimony is largely based upon the fact that in your profession um you use
comparable sales in order to judge the value of property yes and in a neighborhood if a house is upgraded and has Fine finishes and is top of the line uh it'll get a higher value per square
foot okay so um your opinion about the higher per square foot value may be generally good for the neighborhood yes okay but the question that the chairman was asking you that's where you don't have any evidence you can't site any
example any any analysis any calculation where a significant encroachment into a sidey yard has no impact on the value of the house no I can't okay and uh just by Common Sense if uh if Miss sellers was
marketing her house at 42 and advertising one of the features as private backyard then uh the distance to the neighboring house would be relevant I don't think I can answer that uh well
why wouldn't her yard still be play uh because of that uh because but why would that be different from the other side of her house where she has another neighbor yeah it's a good question and here's Here's the the the question and answer all at once so what I'm just trying to
ask you and I to be fair I don't think I don't think there's a way to calculate it but if that uh I'll just called elevation so I don't characterize it if it was 50 ft away from her house or 30 ft away from her house or 14 or one foot away from a
house you would have to acknowledge that it would make some difference on the privacy of the backyard yes okay and eventually the the a the characteristics of the privacy of the backyard could be a factor in attracting a buyer could be
an a factor yes fair enough that's fair testimony thank you board memb any questions Mr chairman I do have a question Mr Smith um was unable to identify a similar
situation where there would be a larger extension of a house next to another house in order to to opine as to whether that affected the the
value of the house are you familiar with where there might be homes that are longer than other homes and what effect that might have had on the the shorter home I think that's a great question but the answer is no I'm not and I doubt if that information actually exists you
it's just needle and a hay stack I think one of the complicating factors which is part of the answer is that in this market where prices keep Rising it would be very hard to discern any detrimental effect uh you know to to actually
isolate any detrimental effect in in a situation like that so it sounds to me like what you're saying because I remember when I bought my house it was like if I don't put an offer on it today I'm not going to get it and so the market and in the end I'm very happy I
got my house but the market determined whether or not I could get that house not how much I like the neighborhood how much I like this so so I think you're right when you say you may not know
individuals who could be offut by something but the greater Market would still provide buyers yes so I want to put words in your mouth but it sounds to me like what I did say is I
I think in this market there is such a imbalance that there are buyers and there will always be buyers as long as the market continues to experience its current situation um you know it's
uh and and homes are more valuable now than they were a year ago or 10 years ago or 30 years ago there's there's nobody doubts that um and unfortunately for people buying homes they seem to keep going up in value and uh um I think
that's again the case for Springbrook neighborhood and uh and for these homes that that we're we're speaking about too okay thank you any other board members with questions any any me do you have a
question yes thank you Mr chairman when you um go through the process of appraising of property um do you also look at the quality of life or the quality of the culture if you will of the neighborhood and how does that factor into the value of the property or does
it I think the um the appraisal answer is no but the Practical answer is yes you do consider that you know the overall quality of the neighborhood so if there's one property that just happens to be Mr Ying's property and it
looks a little bit different than some of the other structures within the neighborhood in your opinion is that going to devalue the overall essence of the neighborhood and the value of the other homes in the neighborhood no quite the opp I think that that the Improvement of
this house will make the rest of the neighborhood look more valuable also and think about the opposite situation if Mr Ying's house were derel um I think we'd be having the opposite conversation people would want
it to be fixed and upgraded and brought up to to date you know because it was affecting the neighborhood uh in a negative way but in this case I I believe that his plans are positive and that over time uh you've seen we see
neighborhoods like this that are older where house by house they they get upgraded you know as people buy them and um make changes to their taste any other questions board members any members of the public with questions of this
witness hello and your name please my name is uh Carrie Matthews uh I'm the resident at 15 windway directly behind Michael's home um one of the things about owning a home
as I've always learned was that my mom told me you could always have a roof over your head here in home ownership in the capacity that I now kind of fears me in terms of it seeing this a business expenses and Market vales um one other
thing is question question has anything been considered in terms of the taxes of homeowners specifically uh retirement people that lives in a neighborhood on retirement
income in terms of preserving their place in the community have we looked out for other people instead of prices of homes and home values decrease decreasing and increasing for people that May cannot afford our taxes on
property I don't know how unfortunately I'm not an assess and that's not really his testimony you can ask questions about what he testified about so you you talk about Market uh uh values prices and of homes and things like that what
happened to the taxes if someone builds a home Milli do my taxes go up or stays the same again I'm not a tax assessor I really not qualified to answer that I cannot ask the question so
okay all right any other members of the public with questions Mr Nan again name for the record please Anthony n 3 Joshua
Mr M um so your appra doing appraising for 30 years done yes I have recently yes I have how recently uh last fall where uh
Blackberry Lane okay how big is the house I 33300 ft and how much prop I don't recall you did appraisal the fall 3000t on yes it's
number um I don't recall okay how many houses of you traed 42 Acres 6,916 I don't recall you don't I just you know over the years I've appraised okay many houses and
buildings I just don't remember so in Mars Township you praised the house on black Lane 3000t with the uh Aces there it's little more than 42 if I'm looking for a house I've look
in Five homes now if I'm looking for a house today I don't want to live next door to an Asos that's 6900 sare ft 42 so you're telling me that my value is going to go up
because a 6900 ft home or I'm going to have a buyer who's going to be willing to pay more than I think my house is I I don't think that's a fair question uh I can't answer whether you're going to pay more than you think
your house is worth um I I don't think that's a fair question ask me okay give you another how many residential appraises have you done the past 12 months uh six six not in the industry uh I I've done
six I don't really know what El uh Mars Township uh mendum Burnsville um uh and Hardy well resident yes so only done
one lane so have you traveled through the springb neighborhood Spring Brook and armr Road yes I have many times yes many times so familiar that the houses are
basically half look in E Truck and think biggest uh50 1.85 Acres that's about 4400 Square people a little
less yes yeah so Mr is trying to shoe 6900 feet Mr Nan questions only no opinions you think 6900 sare feet fits on 42 Acres Mr chairman I don't think Mr
maof expertise in fitting right okay SOA again you've never praised a house 42 Acres 6900 Square ft so from appraisal
stpoint this doesn't fit so I guess I don't have any more questions to so you've done six appraises and 3,000 foot house on black probably C
okay all right um any any other questions yes one more okay your name again sir John mandelli 11 um in your business what's your percentage of actually doing appraisals versus expert
testimony um percentage wise 9010 90 appraisal 10 exra you need to come to the microphone in Lang 52 Spring Brook Road so my question is this um as an appraiser and if everybody does this
kind of thing with their yard you walk into have this large portion of the property covered with house stuff does the property value start to go down because to me that starts looking like that what do you
think um in this market no thank you what about in a different Market I mean you know the Market's not always doing what it did in the last three years right so what about a more C normal Market or even a down Market what
happens then I I again I I believe that the upgrading of the neighborhood would would create value for the neighborhood um I I mean I could give you examples of other neighborhoods that have gone through extensive you upgrades and remodels I
mean not I don't know their specific names but Floren Park is if you drive through there there's just you know they've torn down tons of homes and built very large homes almost property line to property line and they're they're very valuable and Summit is
similar to that too um I think that spring roke is is a neighborhood that I think is very desirable and would maintain its value even in a in a in a market it's not as strong as this
okay any other questions seeing none hearing none oh wait we got one more your name sir alex2 so I heard you say earlier that at home is um older and it's now end of
life is that correct it's nearing the end of its economic life it's nearing the end of its economic life and yet it had an addition about 12 13 14 years ago yes have you examined the house in detail inside no have you looked at the outside yes have you looked at the
pictures before the house was owned by the current owner yes would you say all things being equal taking a part the the market changes would you say the house is worth more now than it was before this current owner bought
it uh do I think the house today is worth more than when he bought it yes under his ownership if you take away the market conditions the condition of the house compared to when this person bought it what is your opinion of the
home and I can give you specific examples while I'm asking this question I I'm not sure I understand the question okay well before this current purchased the home the slate roof was immaculate it was changed frequently every year Somebody went up to that
house and changed out the Slate these shutters are falling off they are completely destroyed now they were the house was in ex well he's setting the predicate for the question so I'm gate it's all in predicate so you said you were aware of
the house before he purchased it and it's now is did this under this person's ownership has the value of the house gone up or down taking away the market if you saw a house without shutters that were ripped apart or a roof that's been clearly
neglected for four or five years what would you say I'd say I can't really answer that without doing the proper research but the house is end of life after an addition 14 years later thank you okay any other questions from members of the
public close the public portion can anything else no Mr chairman anything okay um so we got to get a new date and you're going to be away on April right what have we got in
March only have one minor application so so what's that dat what's that Mar 24th yeah be saying four weeks February so you can make the announcement okay all right so for
members of the public um this this here well let me ask if the attorneys are going to be available March 24th does that work for you guys yes okay thank you yes okay so for members of the public this hearing is concluding for this evening it will continue on March 24th in this room at 700 p.m. there will
be no further notices from the applicant and just have we get an extension of time please yes and just to confirm so where we're at is if there's public uh and then John you would go and then
Dave right and then we'll be done and we'll vote that night there's one other thing on the agenda right now it's a really small thing so okay think we conclude okay oh we're going to be without Mr Hans no we'll still have Mr Hans no we'll still have Mr
yeah he's good through April yeah I'll come back from Pennsylvania for the April me okay is there anything else we needed yes report oh I threw it in there are there any comments any
additions uh excuse me excuse excuse me we're still in session here we're still in section here please take it pleas go outside go find where I put it one this so the UN Cas is the only want from
2023 the UN Cas is the only want from 2023 going yeah I did read it all right got anybody have any additions to right any additions modifications alterations supplementations
recommendations yeah we did make that one change about the uh experts but other than that I think it looks good hold on go ahead if uh eight cases were concluded in
2024 I'm sorry uh where are you number one okay at the conclusion there were nine pending cases filed in 2023 five for C variance and four for D variance eight were concluded in 2024 so
of the number we had nine cases those were concluded then we have bullet point number four says uing from 2023 is still going so I mean we could move that up if you wanted to into that
paragraph yeah so if you took that sentence number four number four just omit the number and put it up at the end of the of number one number one yeah at the end of number one yes yep just part of that paragraph all right and eliminate number four
okay 8 + 7 and 17 new cases were just uh those are brand new fil so there so how many do we have hold over 2024 to 2025 what how many do we have left oh cared over from
24 to 25 that's not on this report so we had 17 this is from 23 right right right no 20 this is the report for 202 right number one is from 2023 saying
that there's there's nine holdovers and we got rid of eight of them the other one is Mr yings 17 new cases were filed so does that mean there were two holdovers from 2024 no eight were concluded so we had
one hold over from 2023 and that Mr Ying his application was filed in 2023 I understand okay let go back the 20 23 we had nine pending cases that were carried
in 2024 into 2024 right eight eight of them were concluded in 2024 okay so we only have one which is the UN application from 2023 okay we receiv received 20 17 cases
in 2024 so that's a total of 18 with the 2023 application that was well no we 17 plus the nine so that's 26 and 23 cases were disposed of so we have basically had three cases
held over from 2024 and 2023 into 2025 sounds yeah sounds like three cases yeah yeah I got more toes and fingers yes that's correct okay okay
the other purpose of this letter is if there were any recommendations to the council about you know zone changes modifications of things right does anybody have any that they want to add did we make some bylaws change though
working on them okay didn't we make that change for the expert testimony we did planners reports have to be provided in advance we could say that in here that the the board has uh the board has amended it was actually
an amended rule yes it was an amended rules and regulations to uh require the reports to be S Planner reports to be provided in advance bylaws right I have a recommendation what's that if by law to
I'm waiting for I'm sorry hold on require to require to require that professional plannner reports be provided in advance professional planner report it didn't say
allert provided even yeah in advance in advance all right days yeah we don't we don't have to put that but in advance very interested they'll find out okay so but I'll add that up there
okay anything else Mr Schuster so if any cases come to this board because they existing non-conforming and it pertains solely to setbacks if they're not infringing on those setbacks any more than the
existing I don't see why it has to come before this board because it further infringes by going up so this case that we just heard of is the perfect example right they're complaining that it's going to be 40 feet I'm going to look at a 40 foot wall
instead of a 15ot wall right so now you know let's say that's already existing let's say you had a first floor at 15 feet now he wants to put a second third floor whatever the height the maximum he could go and so from her perspective it's 40 ft you're going to say you don't
have to come back and get a variance for that okay but if if if that individual was in a conforming structure and they went further out back up whatever yeah because it's conforming
then it's okay right it's not okay because you're people can just complain about it they have no recourse you're inside the required side yard okay so it'ses uh 29 to allow if the addition is being put
put on a non-conforming structure but the addition complies to the zoning it can get approved doesn't have to come here okay so all right thank you for the clarification what is a non-conforming structure so it's already this this one
is a perfect example too again right so his garage is already in violation of the required sidey setback right and now he wants to go up above the garage right so it's a it's non-conforming because he's
at 14 feet instead of at the required 25 feet right so now he wants to go up to be whatever height is at that Second Story it's variance because he's um he's uh modifying that non-conforming
structure so could we have a Zone that's for non-conforming a noning Zone a non-conforming Zone doesn't fit any of those squares and rectangles and therefore if it's non-conforming and it stays non-conforming within those
existing non-conformities you'd have to have an ordinance yeah that says something along those lines right so if you have an existing nonconforming home inside of a setback and you want to add a second story that complies with
everything else yeah then the ordinance can say that it's okay because most of what we look at is stuff like yeah yeah but the exception is one we have right now well this is not an exception because they're adding he's going further down he's
going further out right but but but U well Richard's example about uh if somebody had like just the garage back there and suddenly they want to put the uh Taj Mahal back there yeah I know I I just bring it up
because I I hate when people come here and they they put all this effort and money into the fact they they bought a a one-story house that's non that's existing non-conforming and they want to put a second story on right on top of it and they have to go through all these hoops just for us to say okay and it's
going to be a r stamp right that's that's what I'm getting at I don't think it's fair to them and I and I don't think it's fair for everyone that's waiting for for an opportunity to be in front of this this panel you could put a recommendation in this annual report to
you know recommend an ordinance modific right an ordinance change that would address that to to make it um you know a legal modification if you will right as long as it's within the four corners of the structure but you know still there's
always that issue of what is the effect going to be on the neighborhood because some neighborhoods like uh everybody's non-conforming and you know all you're doing is putting putting something on that everybody else has on there
other times you're going to be putting something out there that might be completely out of character with the neighborhood and therefore we should retain that right I mean it is an inconvenience to these people it does cost them some money but you know they're they're putting the money it's a
small drop compared to the I I just think it's going to continue to get worse because you have small homes and and there's a shortage of of inventory and people are going to continue to come in buy small homes and want to make them bigger right and we understand that so
maybe we should have two separate boards that can uh that can uh meet every every two weeks and we can get through everything quicker that's volunte you gonna volunteer from both oh absolutely as long as they're not special meetings I'm good even it's
like we see an occasional just they adding a portico that's the whole application is you know like if it was a way to FastTrack that you actually have something in the ordinance right or is it just to cover stairs like he was just talking about porticos yeah Portico we
gave the five foot waiver to because we had a run of porticos that were 48t 47 foot where 50 foot was required and you guys passed a uh a 5 foot exemption ordinance yeah okay not you guys Cil but
yeah 45 feet if the house is at 50 they don't have to come in for a variance for the 5 foot Portico like we had one earlier today where he wanted a portico but he also wanted to extend the back of the house out that's got a bunch of stuff going on so he just wanted the Portico he wouldn't have been here that
was just one of like five varant that house if that house that we heard today had been put on that lot Square you wouldn't have heard it yeah really oh fact that that house was skewed on the property through everything off
everything off because everything was either 3 4 in under or three or 4 in over on setx that house could have been Square up would have been fine I'm thinking they the minor changes on the on the front
porch you know moving the stairs maybe wouldn't have issued a it wouldn't have required a variance at that point because it was part of a repair and an upgrade do you agree yeah remember a distance but if it
you know there's the five foot exception you're saying it falls within that yeah yeah yeah okay okay all right see you next month motion to adjourn is that appropriate right now yeah second more than appr yes we're
jour