##VIDEO ID:VQffqBeVp5Q## all right good evening everybody it is Thursday October 17th at 6:32 we will get started with the city white Council on special educations calendar meeting so Rose can we have roll call please oh I'm sorry first of all um can we have the interpreters please introduce yourself let our um let our guests uh know about your service so they can uh hear it in your in their um ideal language gracias thank you um and bangala could you please introduce yourself angala good evening uh the following message will be in Bang confence ID thanks bang thank you very much and Mandarin please could you introduce yourself in your service thank you very much okay Rose can we please have roll call hello Dr saai Carolyn Castro Heather Daly Mark gonzalves present Lupe Hernandez here shamain Keenan here Sam Reed moisis Rosario Maggie Sanchez here Esa rases Maggie cancel I'm sorry Moss okay thank you we do have a quorum thank you Rose okay does someone would someone like to be a timekeeper for tonight lies great thank you okay um tonight's presentation is on early intervention and prek support um doe leadership um will be presenting Johanna would you like to start her off hi everyone thank you Mark hi everyone my name is Johanna Rodriguez I'm the central parent advocate here at the special education office I'm joined here by our interim Chief Suzanne chanchez and we have our team tonight presenting as Mark said on early intervention and transition to preschool but before our presenters present I wanted to mention three things that we've been working on and we're really excited um to launch so yesterday we had an amazing launch of our inclusive clubs which are clubs that schools uh students can request from their schools to join that should foster um dis PRI disabilities Pride inclusion things like that so if you are interested your students are interested there's a link on our Instagram post um with a registration where students can request their schools to have these clubs um another project we've been working on is inclusive an inclusive mural project which we're really really excited about um It Is by a muralist Kyle we're partnering with him where there's five murals across the cities in five different schools that should capture um picture um inclusivity of our students in our schools um so five schools will be creating this mural next week actually or they're actually working on it um now um so really really excited about um having inclusivity be our our our priority this year um and lastly on Sunday October 20th we will be Marching In the NYC parade uh Pride Parade um which will start in Madison Square Park at 10: a.m. and it ends in Union Square Park at where a festival will take place from 12 p.m. to 3 p.m. so we're really excited we hope to see you guys there we'll be there um joining and um putting our best foot forward um so without further Ado I'll have um Jessica wallenstein our uh executive director of committees on special education um do her presentation and introduce her team so Jessica take it away I'm sorry guys this is from interpreters could you please uh remember that you have a simultaneous interpretation here so just to uh go slow with your presentations we will appreciate that thank you thank you absolutely thanks Johanna a good evening everyone as Johanna said I'm Jessica wallenstein I'm the senior executive director for the Committees on special education which includes the Committees on preschool special education where we'll be focusing today um and I'll be presenting today with tamy fooy our um newly appointed wonderful uh Citywide cpsc chairperson um and we'll be uh passing the mic a little bit later on um we also have some partners with us to help answer questions in the chat and and uh depending on how this goes uh they'll join the discussion we have an David a cpsc administrator from uh cpsc 8 in Brooklyn um and we also have maril Lou Johnson um a representative from the Department of Health and mental hygiene's Early Intervention Program um today's presentation is going to focus on um navigating through the cpsc process for families coming from early I'm so sorry again uh Miss Jessica could you please load down your speed thank you so much sure thank you for the reminder I'm GNA work on thank you um we're going to be focusing on the cpsc process for families who are coming from early intervention that being said if if folks would like to know more about early intervention by all means put questions in the chat chat and we'll slow down and talk more about EI um since we have Mary Lou here um partnering with us okay so here's our agenda for today I will give a brief overview of um the services families can access birth to five we'll talk about how families prepare for the transition from early intervention to preschool including preschool special education services we'll talk about the cpse process um and then we'll talk about programs and services and end with some resources I will um go through these slides um fairly quickly and that I'm not going to go through each and every detail um but if anyone would like more information on any aspect let us know in the chat and we can dive into more detail all right overview of services birth to five this is the time when we know um development um and growth is happening quickly um and it is so important that we are giving students um and young children the supports they need during these years if we're suspecting any um velmental delay or concerns and for children between the ages of birth and three those services are provided by the department of health and mental hygiene's Early Intervention Program for CH once children turn three um we transfer agencies and the New York City Public Schools committees on preschool special education are responsible for the special education process and arranging services for children 3 to five so we'll be talking about how families can navigate between these two systems today in addition um children um of all ages are eligible for Early Childhood programs and the New York City Public Schools offers some infant and toddler programs and of course our 3K and prek forall um programs which are open to students with disabilities um and uh we'll talk a little bit about how the cpsc process intersects with um accessing 3K and prek options all right I'm going to just give a brief overview of of who the cpses are um so the Committees on preschool special education again support families through the special education process for children aged 3 to five we now have 11 cpsc offices across the city at least one in every burrow um more in our larger Burrows um to figure out what cpsc uh would support your child it is based on the district in which your child lives regardless of where they're going to school or getting services each cpsc office is led by a chairperson who oversees the entire csse including the cpsc and then there are cpsc administrators who are the main points of contact for families with students who have disabilities there's also Community coordinators who work in the cpsd who are there to help families who need support in navigating through the process there are inboxes email inboxes for each region that are available on this website and I've also put them on this slide it's just C PSC the region number support at schools and you can see the district breakdown um we will be sharing these slides I believe so you'll have this and again it's on our website okay I'm going to go over some similarities and differences between early intervention the department of Health's program and cpsc services and this is um useful information to think about as families are getting ready to transition as their children are getting closer to 3 years old so families know what to expect as they're going from one agency's program to another so in early intervention um when fam when children are being evaluated the focus really is on Child Development and seeing if there's a delay in child development when we move on to cpsc the eval the criteria used in the evaluations is looking at how um suspected delays or disabilities are impacting learning when it comes to classification in EI the classifications are based on medical diagnosis or developmental delay whereas in cpsc all preschool students who are classified are considered a preschool student with a disability it's only in kindergarten where we start looking at um the different classification categories as far as the services that are received the name of the service plan in EI is individualized family service plan for cpsc we move on to individualized education programs or IEPs that lay out lay out what supports and services students will receive in preschool as far as parents involvement parents are meant to be actively involved in the entire process in both systems when it comes to arranging Services families work with their early intervention official design and they have EI service coordinators in the cpse is the cpsc administrator as well as a child's Early Childhood Program if they are attending um An Early Childhood Program that work together to arrange services in early intervention services are often Prov provided um at home or if a child's in a daycare An Early Childhood Program um where it's more common in cpsc for those services to be provided in a school setting and I'm seeing a a comment from Kelly will there be an opportunity for parents to voice questions concerns yes our goal is to leave time um for uh questions and concerns and by all means as questions come to you while we speak go ahead and drop them in the chat and we'll try to answer them as we go so um when it comes to the timing when it for early intervention services are offered throughout the calendar year um when it comes to cpsc for most students services are offered during the school year for 10 months and summer services are only offered for students who qualify and need them and then in both scenarios services are free of charge for eligible Children and Families okay so when do families begin transition planning this is for families who are who are currently in early intervention um we strongly encourage that families begin talking to their service coordinator um close to the second birthday that's really when the process should begin in terms of thinking about whether or not and and and when to refer to uh cpsc in addition families are entitled to what's called a transition conference which would be arranged by the service coordinator and in this scenario if the family would like it they can actually invite the cpsc administrator truthfully this does not happen very often but there have been cases um where C cpsc administrators are invited and do attend okay we're now going to talk a little bit about the steps in the cpsc process and these begin with the step of notification that is unique to EI families and then we're going to talk about referral evaluation the cpsc meeting and arranging programs and services which are relevant to families coming from eii as well as all families who um go through the cpsc process whether they come from EI or not so no notification as part of a child's transition plan the early intervention service coordinator will talk to the parents about their interests in submitting what is called notification of potential eligibility um this is an optional step and if families uh agree to it this document gets sent to the cpsc office um we in the doe or New York City Public Schools I should say encourage families to opt into notification as it gives us information about who will be coming into our system um it is a passive um optin if as long as a family does not opt out of notification this information will be sent to the cpsc between 90 and 120 days before a child is first eligible for preschool special education services and we're going to talk a lot more about eligibility and timelines for both um referral and all other steps along the process really important point is that families understand that when a notification is submitted that is not the same as a referral it is a notification of potentially being eligible and it's really to help um the two systems coordinate and plan um but a referral is a separate document get that gets submitted a little bit later and it's um the same document that is submitted for students coming from EI as well as those um who are not coming from EI so as we get go through the rest of these steps um please keep in mind that this is relevant to All Families not just those coming from EI um as far as age eligibility age eligibility is a term we use to refer to the first date that a child could begin receiving services from the cpsc and that is determined by a child's birth date um it's important to know that we're talking about um age eligibility in terms of when a child can begin um receiving Services it is not so much about a child's age so for children born between January and June referrals can first be submitted in September of the year the child turns three and then they are first age eligible in January for children born between July and December referral can be submitted as early as March 4th and then they are age eligible July 1st sorry about the formatting on this slide um referrals should absolute absolutely be submitted no later than 90 days before your child's third birth date and this is so so important particularly for families who may want to continue EI Services past age three we want to make sure that there is time for evaluations and for the IEP meeting to be held before children age out of early intervention um and we encourage that referrals are submitted on the earliest date which is 120 days before age eligibility and all of these timelines are in published literature on the Doe's website you don't have to feel like you need to memorize it right now all right for referral I'm actually going to pass it off to um tamy fooy or cpfd um chairperson to to talk through these next few steps and again these steps are relevant um to families whether they're coming from E EI or not but tamy will give specific notes um that are helpful for EI families all right tamy I'll pass it to you thank you Jessica good evening everyone again if your child you believe your child um should go through the process for a cpsc evaluation you're encouraged to submit a referral form directly through to the cpsc or through your EI service coordinator you may also submit a referral uh in uh handwritten typed or emailed email will uh be fantastic and and move through the process much more quickly um if you did it that way uh besides um doing a walk into the C PSC if you chose um and if you're requesting a preschool special education evaluation you want to ensure under information you present Your Child's full legal name and date of birth is there describe any um specific concerns um that are uh inducing you to put in the referral process and if needed you can also um speak with your child's program or have your service coordinator support you um with this information if you're not so sure list um make sure that your cpsc knows that your child is receiving currently early intervention services and we want your full contact information your name your address the best telephone number to reach you um and an email address as best as possible any combination of this information the more that you give the cpsc the better able they'll be they'll be able to support you with this process and do followup and also always have your preferred language written on the form and any other constraints or concerns if your hearing paired uh if if there is any um anything barring you you from being able to follow up readily with the cpsc after the referral is processed the cpsc will send a packet of documents by mail or by email and they may Reach Out out to you to um again if a email address hasn't been issued they may be calling you but if one has they will be emailing you the cpsc will request for your consent to use electronic email to um if you have not given it already in your referral and um once you respond to that they will send all that information via email for followup on your referral or evaluation packet you want to contact the cpsc and again that contact information can be found on the New York City Public Schools websites for committees on special education and Jessica already reviewed previously um the inboxes for all the cpsc's your EI service coordinator can also reach out to the cpsc by sharing the confirmation document they received when you submitted your EI referral or your cpsc referral before reaching out to the cpsc we strongly encourage you to check your email including spam junk u mail and folders for the following the request to use electronic mail and a important reminder if you do not refer your child to the cpsc or if your child is not found eligible for preschool special education services your EI services will end on the day before your child's third birthday so if you want to extend their early intervention service is please submit a referral to the cpsc and for your child before turning three and if you decide not to refer to the cpsc you can apply for the 3K for all um programs whether you decide to refer your child to the cpsc or not if you change your mind later you can always um put in a new referral um process for your child yeah and I just want to really emphasize um that if a family is considering extending EI Services it's so so important to submit that referral the the 120 days before age eligibility because it is a process that takes time um particularly the you know going through the evaluations and scheduling that evaluation appointment um so we are really looking at a a four-month time frame um so we absolutely don't want to wait till till the birthday is coming up to ensure there are no age outs all right evaluation this cpsc packet that families um receive include live upto-date list of state approved evaluation sites a multi-disciplinary evaluation sites that can complete your child's preschool special education evaluation you should review this list of evaluation sites choose one and call to schedule an appointment as soon as possible these assessments may require more than one appointment so you want to ensure that you're looking um at this timeline if if you would like help with choosing or contacting an evaluation site you can reach out to the cpsc all evaluations must be done in person and conducting evaluations face Toof face is always the best way to find out about how your child is progressing if there are no barriers to doing an in-person assessment you or the evaluation agency may contact the cpsc to discuss if there's a concern please do not sign the consent for evaluation form called the c1p that comes in your cpsc packet you will sign this at the time of your meeting at the evaluation site what happens at the evaluation evaluations can include exams such as the psychological evaluation that looks at what your child knows and at all their various cognitive abilities a social history interview which provides background on your child's Developmental and family history often from birth to present a physical evaluation this is the health examination form that you would receive from your pediatrician on your yearly visit for your child an observation of your child in their current educational setting or Child Care location and any other appropriate assessment as necessary to determine the physical mental behavioral and emotional factors that contributes to your child's suspected disability and as the parent you will be informed throughout as to what process is occurring some children require bilingual evaluation which is conducted in both English and the child's home or native language the need for bilingual evaluation is determined by the Home language survey which you will complete at the beginning of the evaluation licensed bilingual professionals should conduct the evaluation of culturally and linguistically diverse children the use of an interpreter is permitted only when licensed professionals cannot be obtained notes on EI documents and recent evaluations your child's EI service plan evaluations and progress reports may be very helpful as the cpsc is planning for your child's preschool evaluation with your consent EI evaluations completed within the past six months can be used by the cpsc to help establish eligibility for preschool special education services these can be transmitted along with a referral by your service coordinator you should also inform the evalu evaluation agency you selected about these recent evaluations this this may reduce the number of appointments you need going through the cpsc process after the evaluations are completed the results will be sent to you and the cpsc administrator this will also include a preschool student evaluation summary this will summarize all the various evaluations that took place for your child and give you a nice snapshot of any and all um concerns and the shrink uh for your child in the midst of evaluation and you can riew this before your cpsc meeting at this step four the cpsc meeting once the evaluations are received by the cpsc they will schedule a meeting with you to determine if your child needs or is found eligible for preschool special education services CP PC meeting participants can include you as the parent or of Guardians you're a very important member of this um Team a District representative which will be the cpsc administrator a representative from the evaluation team the site that completed the evaluation and other part participants that could be part uh be involved are your child's teacher others with knowledge about your child or have special expertise such as related service providers um your EI service coordinator at your request a New York City Public Schools parent member at your request and anyone else who you feel could really um provide information on your child's um educational needs um overall and now I'm going to give this over to uh oh sorry Jessica one more eligibility for preschool special education programs and services um to be found eligible for preschool uh cpsc Services your child is must have a determination to be a preschool student with a disability this determination is based on evaluation showing that your child has a significant delay in development educational disability or delay or disability that affects learning your child may be eligible for preschool special education programs and services if they are showing substantial delays in any of the following areas in their cognitive the way they think and they learn their language of communication both understanding and using the language um the Adaptive skills self-help skills such as toileting eating and dressing their social emotional uh Behavior such as getting along with others and expressing their feelings motor development there such delays in um disorders involving Vision hearing and movement the IEP which stands for the individualized education program if your child meets the eligibility criteria the cpsc will work with you to develop a written document called the individualized education program IEP and IEP is a plan that discusses your child's ability and outlines the services that the New York City Public Schools will provide free of charge to meet your child's educational needs just really crucial understand this is a plan and things may fluctuate for your child and you always have the availability of being able to communicate with your cpsc administrator if your child is found to require services this document includes many sections including your child's present level of performance measurable annual goals their recommended preschool special education programs and services and any accommodations and modifications they may need the IEP will recommend an education program that is appropriate to meet your child's needs in the least restrictive environment we want your child to be in environment as best as possible that they can be there with their peers this means your child will receive their programs and services and settings with non-disabled peers to the greatest extent appropriate and as close as possible to your child's home if you applied or received an offer to 3K program tell let your cpsc administrator know this at the IEP meeting so they can work with you to recommend appropriate programs and services on the IEP that can support your child in the program you choose extending EI services if the cpsc holds a meeting before your child turns three and finds your child eligible for services you can choose to either end e services and begin preschool special education services at that time or extend your child's EI Services depending on your child's date of birth if they turn three before January 1st and August 31st August 31st of the year they turn three um turn three between September 1st and December 31st December 31st of the year they turn three that's when the extension of these Services would be eligible this will require you to sign a D1 form um otherwise known as an extension form for those early intervention services you must immediately send this document with the IEP summary page and the attendance sheet to your service coordinator your service coordinator must submit these forms to your EOD before your child turns three in order to authorize the extension of EI Services after your child turns three informed consent very very important after the IEPs developed the cpsc will ask you for written permission to start services this is called the infirmed consent for services after the receive your written consent the cpsc will arrange for services on your child's IEP to be provided if you do not respond to the request for consent or If you deny consent for special education services the cpsc will not arrange for these services to be provided and no further action will be taken it is crucial that if you want your child to receive their services once cpsc services are slated to begin this information will be on the IEP documents that you give informed consent and now I will be passing this back to Jessica to talk to you about programs and services thank you tamy thank you for bearing with my clicking with all the animation on these slides um so programs and services uh there is a range of services available to support preschool students with disabilities and I'm going to talk about them um thinking uh about the services that we tend to view as being less restrictive to those that are more so starting with related Services these are services like Physical Therapy occupational therapy speech and language therapy assistive technology um and if a student has a disability the cpsc will will first consider can we provide only related services in the setting where the child currently is which might be a 3K or prek program if a student's needs are more intensive then the P PSC might consider a special education itinerant teacher or a theat theat is a special ed teacher working closely with the student to assist them in accessing um learning with their peers um this is a service that can be provided one-on-one for a child who needs that but often it's provided in a group um for children whose needs um are more intensive that they that these itinerant services that follow a child to wherever they are during their three and four year-old years they might need then a special education program and we have integrated special education programs um in preschool they're called special class in an integrated setting and this is a classroom where students with and without IEPs are educated together um we offer skis classes in New York City public school settings as well as in contracted settings um and then there's special classes and these are self-contained they only include students with IEPs and we only consider a special class when a student's needs cannot be met in one of the less restrictive environments with additional AIDS and supports excuse me Jessica can I interrupt for a minute can I have one of the Spanish interpreters repeat the information again please thank you sure graas thank you thank you thank you Jessica course okay so how do we go about arranging programs and services so for those those itinerant Services special education itinerant teacher it and the related Services again these are services that follow a student where they are so we're not arranging um this when I say we the cpsc is not arranging for placement in general education programs um these services are again following the student wherever they happen to be whether it is a 3K or prek program contracted offered by New York City Public Schools or if those children are at home uh under certain circumstances were able to provide services at home um putting in a note that if anyone is interested in applying to Early Childhood programs they can apply for 3K as well as prek um and as tamy said if a student is attending a 3K or prek program the cpsc will work to provide services at that program it's quite different for children whose IEPs recommend giz or special class the cpsc in this case is arrange placement um in these programs we have these classes in many different settings um in New York City public school operated settings including prek centers um and District 1 through 32 elementary schools as well as at contracted community-based special education programs um that are often called 4410 and for children recommended to skiz in special class um they are entitled to busing um on their IEP if the family is interested in transportation services all right what should we do um when children are not found eligible for cpsc um so again um if a child does not meet eligibility criteria um then they would work with their early intervention service coordinator to figure out when the last day of of early intervention services would be um and the latest day that would be would be the third birthday um if any family does not agree with the determination made by the CP PC they can of course exercise their due process rights and whether or not um a child is found eligible um they are welcome to apply to Early Childhood programs including 3K and prek for all that have pre-referral supports that can help students whether they have an iot or not and then of course um if a student begins preschool um they were found ineligible by cpsc if concerns persist families can always re-refer at any time between the ages of three and five and if a child ages out of EI for whatever reason the referral was submitted late to cpsc um or the evaluation process was delayed um then of course a cpsc meeting can still happen even if there is a gap I'm so sorry uh so sorry but you you're going really really fast so we need to make sure that people understand everything you saying thank you no thank you for the reminder so if a CH if a child ages out of EI um for whatever reason um if they were late in referring to this bpsc or because the evaluation process took a while and then a family does experience a gap in service we will still work to get that IEP me meeting scheduled as fast as possible and initiate Services as fast as po possible and again we encourage families to concurrently pursue um accessing early childood programs like 3K and prek while also going through the cpsc process for consideration um they are they are two processes that can happen concurrently you don't need to first um figure out what kind of IEP a student might get before considering applying to gened all right gonna end with some reminders and then we could open it up to any additional questions anyone has on early intervention or cpsc so I think we've we've drilled this point home quite a bit um to refer Services particularly for families interested in extending EI um children must be found eligible which means they have to have their preschool IEP meeting before they turn three so submit those referrals as early as possible as much as 120 days before age eligibility and then for children who are um found eligible keep in mind um the important tenant of the least restrictive environment um we know that inclusive environments are beneficial to all children those with and without disabilities um we're doing a lot of work with the cps's to promote inclusion and ensure that we are only considering recommendations for more restrictive settings if it is absolutely necessary for individual students and then of course children with IEPs can have choose to have their children attend 3K programs if a child is already attending a 3K or a prek student and they're going through this process the cpsc will work to recommend um services that support the child in that setting we never want a child to have to change programs unnecessarily and then of course if at any point a family or program staff believe a child needs more support that's a conversation with the CPS and we can always reassess okay couple of resources again our contacts our inboxes for each cpsc um and Ann thank you for dropping in the chat a link to our guide um from going from early intervention to preschool I think that might be it oh and then we have our hello there was yeah you know uh we had a little bit of a glitch there um so we had just finished up on the slide and I guess this is our vantage point to have questions asked yes uh Jessica had a a pure shutdown of her computer so she'll be joining us in a few and are there any questions related to this topic thank you ladies for that presentation it was really helpful thank you okay Dr kanton Dr Dr K you have to put that push the button please oh I gota hold it okay so um you stated that 3K programs offer children with disabilities regardless to what their variation is my question to the Department of Education is the CBO programs that you fund with 3K prek as well as New York City Department of Education schools that service kids with 3K prek how do you support the staff who are not trained to necessarily meet these children needs that's the first question I don't know if you want me if you want to answer them separately because I got about six so just tell me how you want me to do this because I think it's fine that you say even if a child has a variation they can apply to a 3K prek program but for General Ed programs with teaching staff are not equipped to support children with autism with special needs or different variations and the funding does not allow those programs to get additional support and cpsc unfortunately has a longer process for the for those kids to get Services my question to the Department of Education is how are you supporting these doe funded 3K prek programs who you are saying families you're welcome to come apply even if your kid have a disability and that these programs are supposed to accept them in and support their needs even though the teachers and the staff is not equipped to do do so so that one I need answered so for that first question that you have asked I just want to make clear in our presentation we have not um shared information about the three Cas centers being the experts on the supports that's needed for the child we have discussed clearly that we want as much as possible if a child can be in their least restrictive environment and I definitely empathize um with families who want that and I I hear in your voice you would want that for the child but you're concerned about what happens if a child is presenting and needs more in that environment and then the program can't support the child how and how best do we move forward there I do want to say and newly appointed into this role I have seen that some of these scenarios do show and our CPS administrators and um have a coordinated effort with our team here to ensure that these programs have support as soon as possible given how busy we all are but we do work on a timeline with them I do keep in contact with the cpsc teams to support the programs as best as possible and we have resources from our preschool assessment teams who may also be able to reach out earlier to support the process of evaluation for our students and I think just to add on there um one second I just want to address something she said so is it possible you can send us a copy of these resources that you give because I run one of those programs and you do not provide resources to programs like mine that service those kids right and so if you have resources as you stated I would really like for you maybe to email our Council so that other programs can be able to tap into those resources or know where to find those resources because at this present moment so the resources I was referring to is are internal with our preschool assessment teams who can support earlier maybe than a contracted agency to be able to go into have the evaluation completed and it sounds like you know I think that it would that there's some real challenges you're experiencing at the program level and um I would be very happy to follow up with our partners in the division of early childhood education who do have staff that can go on site so I'm going to drop my email into the chat and by all means if you if you'd be comfortable sharing more information about your program and we can work with Early Childhood to to get some supports on site okay next question what is your office doing to shorten in the time you stated earlier that the EI process and the cpsc process when children are two about to turn three that if their families um speak with a coordinator that assist them as we know New York State those agencies often are open baren and sometimes families fall through the crack so how is your office you stated earlier that even if someone misses the deadline they don't get the the time frame to apply for extended services that you work with those families to still get an IEP what I've witnessed is that the IEP or the I ifsp will say that the child needs Services um the family had not had the connection but they enter into 3K prek programs with no services and what is often told from your cpsc office is that oh well they have to wait till the child turns three and then they start the process over so my question to you is how is your office shortening that process so that families who fall through the cracks can still get service because you stated that they do my question is how do you provide those Services what are the steps you take for a family who has fell through the cracks other than having to reapply and wait for a new um form and then they have to wait to find an agency they have to go through the regular process that any other family who is three year old who child is three goes through but if they had EI before how do you bridge that Gap that you claimed a minute ago that you said that you guys do so if you can give me an example how you bridge that Gap that would be helpful yeah thanks for that question um and I think you know for unfortunately when when families um turn three coming from EI and they've not yet submitted a referral um it is it is so challenging for those families who have to experience the Gap in service and in those cases um as soon as they submit that referral um we're going to support the family in in moving ahead in the process if the if their time in EI was somewhat recent and the evaluations were within the last six months the cpsc can absolutely look at them and and use those evaluations so that it's a little bit more expedited in some cases the cpsc might determine based on what those evaluations say or do not say that we do need additional um and then we would work to get evaluation scheduled as quickly as possible and if ever you hear um of you know a cpsc administrator um not considering recent EI evaluations um that's wrong um and I want you all to be aware of some escalation Pathways that we've been able to establish since um tamy fooy joined our team very recently um so if reaching out to those inboxes or the individual administrator the family's already working one is working with one is not getting you what you need then you can reach out to the chairperson and you can also reach out directly to tamy who can follow up and support um I'd be the first to say that we have a tremendous amount of work to do to keep moving towards consistency across all of our office and ensuring that all of our staff are doing what they need for families and we welcome the feedback and the escalations if you're ever experiencing anything different um what will you do to improve the process for children receiving sorry once a family is given this packet they're then on their own required to find an agency to get services over the past six months I've assisted about 26 families the list that you give how are you how are you vetting that list because most of those places either have sometimes stopped giving the evaluation services or they have a wait list anywhere from six months to eight months for an evaluation but these children are then stuck in programs with no Services even though we already knew they had EI services and that the kid needed Services how is your office you send packing in an email to families but how is your office supporting those families and finding a viable place to actually do the evaluation and when that's not possible why is there wait for your office six months to a year before they can actually get an evaluation done thanks for that question as well um so when we send the packet we we attempt to send it over email um for families that can sent to email communication and right now we are sending um a live list and as far as how we update it this is something that just started in the past year uh we survey all of the evaluation agencies quarterly to get updated information on whether they're still functioning what their contact information is and what languages they're supporting and so I just dropped the link to that live list um I I am sure that the old PDF that is so so out of date is still in circulation but it is not what cpses should be sent anymore so that's one thing for families who are not using email we print out this live list um so that families get the most up to date I'm well aware that even with that you know we send out the survey not every evaluation agency responds so I'm sure there's still information here that is out of date and when families need support um our community coordinators in hcpc can help call agencies and we also try to schedule we have 21 in-house evaluation teams um that that we um you know also have waiting lists um to be perfectly Frank um but we do try to squeeze emergency cases in whenever possible we have a little more control over the ones that are offered by the doe um and we are always exploring ways to add evaluation capacity um but our our largest challenge in this realm is that um there is there's a shortage of evaluators and so we do our very best in getting as upto-date information as we can and connecting families to agencies and squeezing them in um with our teams when possible um but complet completely recognize that there's more work to do and none of us are okay with the 3 to six month weight at certain times in the year especially for families who need bilingual evaluations okay my my last um my last question to you is the store man the state mandate that you give children who have early intervention who has an active ifsp evaluation services once they've gotten through your process and have received an IEP um currently I know in Harlem we've been surveying dayc carees in schools at service three and four year two three and four year olds in particularly um and what has been said is either a 4410 school is not available at the time so families are then stuck in the General Air program where their child services are not being met or you are H you lack providers for speech OT and related services so my question to you is how is your office now providing those families outside support because the lore mandates that the kids get the support often these kids sit in these seats waiting for a year to get into a proper pement but they've missed out on a year of service so what is your office doing to make sure that those families whether get that service privately or what what systems do you have in place when the family doesn't get the service because there's no seat where do they go and how do they get the recourse that they're supposed to get by law that they're eligible for yeah absolutely first and foremost what we're doing is um working as hard as we possibly can to ensure that we do have seats for every every child um we got um an investment um from from our partners in City Hall um of a significant amount of funding that enabled us to open about 400 seats in September so we were able to open the year um having many more seats available than we have in past years we are currently working to open even more seats in the coming months so our goal is to really ensure that we do have seats for all children um that was that's wonderful news it's not going to fully solve our problems because I know you also mentioned there's a wait for services um the division of inclusive and accessible learning is also putting out a request for proposals um for related service agencies and we hope that in the way that this new RFP is structured we will be be able to reimagine our related service contracts in a way where we're in incentivizing providers to work with preschoolers there's a real focus on preschoolers in the way we're thinking about reforms to those contracts so um it's it's long-term work and it's going to take a a while but we are so focused on both ensuring that we have the seats available and the services available because we do know that many children unfortunately are having to wait I hear what you're saying but you to answer my question what is the inm thing you have put in place for those kids who have an IEP but cannot get their services I know that in elementary school kids can get it privately you will give a voucher what do you have in place for children who are two to five years old who currently have a i AP but can't get a seat in the 44 C program or can't get related Services due to your lack of providers what can a family do to still get services and where do they go to get that information please just question um don't have anything in place that's okay too but just say that I hear you I I wanted to make it clear that we are trying to like eliminate even the need for that by opening classes and acknowledge that we don't have nearly as many of students in that position as we have in the past while students are waiting for seats cpss will absolutely work to arrange partial services so if we're able to find a related service that is on the IEP we will absolutely provide that while searching for a seat um even if a student is not recommended for SE it if the cpsc administrator deems that as an appropriate interim service they will look to secure that when they can't um they don't just say we're done they keep searching because we know that related service providers and seats their case loads are changing and when no one is available in the Bronx today maybe in a week someone will be available so what we can commit to is continuing to search um and try to find providers uh in an ongoing Manner and giving families updates on our progress um but we recognize that there are absolutely moments where we're stud students are waiting and we don't yet have services in place um so parents allow to get private services and you pay for it if you can't find it families can always you know file complaints and and try to request uh you know a payment for service providers that they find um but that is not something that we would authorize proactively thanks Jessica are there any other questions um um Suzanne wants to to say something hi good evening uh everyone Suzanne Sanchez here interim acting chief of special education New York City Public Schools um I just wanted to address some of the uh one or two of the questions that are coming through in the chat about iesp services and concerns around that really important topic some of you may have um heard uh from this group uh last month on this topic as well but I will reshare and reiterate here that New York City Public Schools the special education office as well as Jessica wallin's team of the Committees on special education are following the directives and guidance of the legal office of general counsel the office of general counsel for New York City Public Schools is leading and guiding the work and policies and procedures around IP Service delivery and um we are eager to resolve these issues alongside the office of general counsel csse families and external partners that said we are required to follow the guidance of the office of general counsel and while we do not have specific answers to specific inquiries on the IES top IC this evening no one here is seeking to evade or be vague or not provide information uh we want to ensure that families who are in this process receive the most current and accurate information therefore any inquiries on this topic should be sent directly to IP inquiry at schools.nyc.gov we understand and feel the frustration on this topic and want to ensure families and their Partners receive the most current and accurate information and that is from the group managing and leading this work iesp inquiry schools.nyc.gov Johanna Rodriguez will put that address in the chat thank you very much for your time this evening use his hand so are there any other questions related to EI and prek 34 Maggie you have a question hi good evening um thank you uh fellow council member um Dr siai for those questions because a lot of them were my questions that I had in my mind and I was I was thankful that that they were being asked um so eloquently I think that one of the things that is is that I would like to know is how many EI EI uh students and cpsc students are on the waiting list currently um and I also want to let the public know that the reason why there's not a lot of placements in 4410 programs which is the preschool special education programs um that are not prek they are not Public Schools they're nonpublic schools programs is because of um the in inability for New York State and New York City to fund to have the funds for those those programs so we have to do uh a lot of push a lot of advocacy towards making sure that those programs are adequately funded thanks to a lot of the advocacy groups um nonprofit organizations and Grassroots organizations the cuts that were going to that were going to take place um for preschool special education did not go through um but nevertheless the amount that was approved in the budget was not sufficient and will not be sufficient so the public really needs to push their your legislators in the state the governor's office and and the city council to to do their jobs um because special education students and especially um early intervention um you know basically babies toddlers um are going months on end without their services so yeah just on the on the waiting wait how many are in the waiting list right now thanks for that question and thank you for your advocacy um uh both the city and the state level um so so appreciate that um right now I can say that cpsc's are in the process of finding placements for children who require a special ed program for about a hundred students Citywide they're still in process um and part of that is because there are some districts where we are are seeing already that we are running low on seats for particular ratios and in other cases it's because you know uh there's a lot of back and forth happening between the cpsc and a family um about what is the appropriate placement and and it is a process that takes time um 100 is is much less than than what it is usually for this time of year and that's thanks to the fact that we the the funding that that was committed to to New York City Public Schools enabled us to open about 400 seats in September and for those districts where we're already starting to see some serious shortages those are where we're we're hopeful that we will be able to open additional seats is there a number uh is there a number of the of kids that are in the waiting list and how that's broken down per burrow or per District if if you know if that could be outlined somewhere either in the web page or or you know where where is that data and where can we find it so we don't publicly release District level data um on in a real time moment um it changes every single day because as I said you know cps's every day are working with families to secure placements but our city council report is posted publicly and that talks about a number of preschool special education outcomes including students in need of programs and services by District um last year's report is on um uh the web now and the report the most recent report for the most recent school year will be published in the coming um weeks where can we find that again it's in it's it's it's on the doe website um if you go to reports and then you go to special education you will see all of the city council reports for K through 12 as well as preschool if I can if I can find it while if I can find it while we're talking I'm gonna Google get it I'll drop I'll drop it in the chat it's in infohub oh hello um I just wanted to respond quickly on the uh comment on the data the data is actually not up currently we've already asked about that and we were told that it's the end of the month so for families uh the info Hub check at the end of the month the reports have not been updated as of today can I ask my one question hi um in your response to Maggie council member Maggie you said that you knew or you're already seeing data of districts that are showing less volume or challenges and that it then changes by day but historically I would imagine there are regions that have shown shortages or lack of services so I'm wondering if you could possibly give us information to that outside of this meeting but what is the thought in approaching these districts that have historically been disenfranchised in providing services to students in this area yeah where we where we continually see great need is where we are focusing our efforts for opening more programs for sure so you you mentioned that there's a hundred students waiting for seats approximately right now there's 100 students that the cps's are currently working with to identify seats that are not yet placed about and again that's a number that changes every day and I want to be very careful about how these numbers are in flux moment of Moment In Time y so do you have enough funds to open 100 seats if necessary um Citywide I understand it's District by District but Citywide do you have enough money to open 100 seats tomorrow if you had the Staffing um thanks to the the funding committed um through our partners in in City Hall we do we do have enough funding to add a 100 more seats um it's not something we can can do you know that quickly it it requires identifying the space and getting State approval and hiring but that is the work we are doing right now and what's the maximum number of seats with the funding you could open with all those things you you detailed yeah 500 more seats how many I don't have that information exactly right now because it it actually depends a bit on where we open where we open seats specifically um so I can't I can't give you a number right now but you have more than a 100 seats in theory that you could build as long as you got approval and all the steps you mentioned earlier all right are there any other Heather you have a question so I just want to make a comment to the um prek for all where some of these students end up without their services um it really puts the uh people who operate these prek programs in a very precarious situation um and kind and for some forces them to violate the civil rights of these children because they don't have the support to support these students so they often get um asked to leave the program or they can't they don't even get enrolled because they know that they can't support them um and when you deny a student um who is eligible for these Services um they could file a civil rights complaint um for being denied um and so that's just something to think about when this takes forever to get and these are like the private prek programs that get the prek for all money there's in my neighborhood even that have difficulty serving some of our students um because they just can't get the supports and then they have to deny a seat to that child um which is not okay Lupe you have your hand up hi good evening can you hear me yes okay thank you um I I want to come from a space as a parent of a prek student that is going through the process with cpsc and identifying where we will be placing him um where I've toured already two schools and have a tour lined up for next week um and just want to speak to that because of the three different places I did have a question in here and just a comment on I will say in these past three four months it has been um probably the most responsive I've ever got from cpsc in this process and and the kids that I've had go through this process and my other one went through eii through cpsc into into very much what you described this evening but in my youngest now coming in um already in the 3K system so already in 3K identified um the three different places both all ICT and that's what I'm finding you guys definitely opened up a lot more ICT 3K and um 3K classrooms which was great and so with that being said it was like I got a chance to tour a a school that has been doing it I think a little bit longer and then one that it's their first year right so the principal was very open and transparent and saying listen this is our first time we you know we're doing this with Fidelity we hope to to to be able to implement this well but we want to be upfront this is our first time um and that's in a in a public school setting prek through 8 and then next week I'm going to be touring something that's all the way I live in lower Manhattan and I'm going all the way to 155th um to tour a site and um originally my thought process was I don't want to visit this because it's too far um but I was very interested in the makeup that I was hoping maybe you guys can share a little bit tonight because it's a makeup I've never heard um it was 20 kids ICT 10 general education um prek and 10 special education prek students with four teachers two certified special education teachers and two general certified general education teachers and it was the first time I've heard of this skid makeup and so just curious is if this is new and and and how this came about and if you could share anything more about it because it was it has intrigued me enough to for me to go visit the school um and bring him next week so L thank you for sharing a little bit of um some positive experiences I'm not actually familiar with with which school that is so if you're comfortable sending me the info I'd actually love to to learn more about that model thank you okay thank you everybody really appreciate your time it was a great presentation on um EI and and the cpsc uh process thank you so much thanks for having us we're gonna we'll open it up yeah okay we are now going to transition to public comment so if Heather are there anyone is there anyone signed up or we're just going to open it okay aelia you are first for public comment please um unmute yourself and and it's time is yours all right thank you I appreciate everyone as always um I find it interesting that I'm about to speak to the ISP and it seems as though is that Miss Sanchez who just left the table thank you Miss Sanchez for coming I appreciate that and for being there and respecting my voice today my daughter is now going almost 6 weeks 7 weeks without iesp Services because the Department of Education c31 am I borrowing you I'm sorry am I boring you I hope not because the cc31 has sorry I didn't hear what you just said can you repeat that yes the cc31 has unilaterally without notice took my daughter's IES Services away from her so you say you are guard you're the what was it the uh general counsel's office is that who's guarding you or guiding you throughout this process well I received the general counsel's office letter to my complaint to them and they've essentially said that I don't have a right to bring this about I don't have a right to assert my daughters do process claims I do so the New York City Department of Education through general counsel's office through the through the special education department through dial or whatever your new acronym may be you are purposefully intentionally taking my daughter's set Services away from her and it's not just me it's a thousand other children and you should all be collectively ashamed of yourselves but I'm sure you're not so my question for you is where's the $39 million that's going because it's not going to the Thousand students out there who are currently without services so where's the money going to I want to know who exactly is receiving this money because it's not my daughter I unfortunately have to pay right now for her to receive at least two hours of Matt Services I just need to know what's going on with her services and please don't tell me to email IES help they don't do anything they don't do anything all I'm doing is I'm getting the same can responses and may I add I did a fur request and I will tell you what I did find I found zero notice prior to September so the Department of Education Without notice of intent and direct direct violation of the 14th Amendment the Fifth Amendment the American Disability Act the ID in direct violation of federal and state regulations took my daughter set Services away from her and you should all be ashamed of yourselves thank you thank you Miss appreciate it all right um Heather who is next on the list Peter please Peter you are up next please oh oh ke I'm sorry Peter Kell Kelly was next signed up I apologize Peter we will get to you right after oh Peter I guess we'll still have it open for you Peter after but Kelly please hi yes hi yes thank you for your time I really appreciate it um I I will I'm going to piggyback on everything as Alia just said um New York City Public Schools without notice discontinued my daughter's services for this entire school year I have been given the runaround oh no no update no update my daughter has a hearing disability a part of her IES is an FM system and hearing Education Services New York City public school Central staff sent a message audiologists back in September to not speak with us or engage with us regarding FM systems so I am asking you why is my daughter's FM CI system sitting in a closet collecting dust or sitting in a car of the audiologist that is assigned to her and not being given to her that is a outright like blatant I mean attack on my daughter and it's not fair it's not right I don't how you can all sit there and listen to these stories I'm just one of many um and and not take action you're all hiding behind now legal staff um it's always the blame game it's always the blame game and who is getting hurt here our children my daughter my daughter has among hearing among hearing loss she has other disabilities then she has speech regression so much speech regression since not being able to get speech services for the last two months because she can't hear she can't hear her teacher so that she can learn it's not fair it's not right something has to be done and soon like it has to be done now thank you for your time KY I I appreciate you you bringing that forward and I'm as a parent I'm I'm horrified um it it's I'm not going to speak on on behalf of the council but the council did did pass a resolution earlier this term against moral control this is clearly the mayor and his office that are involved in this let's be blatantly clear um not the special education office that is is pushing this it is well above the special education office um I know you don't get to see the pain in their their their eyes and and and their voices we we talked to them extensively about this it's not their call um You can call it hiid behind the lawyers but they are being dictated what they're allowed to say and it's BS it's absolute garbage but that's the problem when you got mayor all control bottom line it's Adams and his minion it is number two in the doe right now but I'll leave it there thank you thank you for that uh thank you for that response I I appreciate that response and that you know honesty and I will share that my you know we I listened to a lot of conversation this evening about early interventions P PSA and my daughter was a part of that whole process and she was two months old she and it's been and she is flourishing at you know through those processes but now because of this she's regressing and it's it's it's a shame so I I appreciate your response thank you no thank you Kell I I I appreciate what you're doing to help her and uh you know please feel free to reach out to us um CCSC schools.nyc.gov um we are continuing to to push doe Central um but again the special education hands are completely tied and they don't get a say in this it's well above them so but I hear you loud and clear and there's way too many cases there shouldn't be any cases of this but thank you Kelly and Asel as well thank you Peter um do you have any anything you'd like to add we've seen your your chats um and we we acknowledge and I appreciate that I just want to thank you guys for taking the time tonight uh and I apologize for any chaos that I've caused on your end uh but we've been at this with the doe now for uh over a month this is since before uh since before Labor Day so I hope you understand and it seems like everyone does why we're equally frustrated here uh the assembly member wanted to be on tonight and unfortunately had a conflict so you got the second best thing uh but I uh but I really do appre appreciate that you guys are giving parents the opportunity to speak tonight I wish that Suzanne would have stayed so she could have heard from some of the other parents uh beyond the first one that spoke uh but it is uh it is good to see that parents are engaged on this issue uh and I I just urge everybody to continue contacting uh not just the doe but their elected officials as well uh because you know I'm coming to you guys from a Staten Island perspective here but I know that it is a Citywide issue uh and there has to be other elected officials that are talking about this whether it's your council member your assembly member or your Senator uh but thank you for the time tonight guys yeah Peter you're not you and and and the assemblymen Are Not Alone um we've had other members from from Albany also um involved in this the council at our last meeting um did present on the is IES topic we sent out a survey and received quite a few responses from the public because we we were hearing it's um prior to Labor Day um we were getting a lot of Buzz over the summer about this and the noise got louder and louder as we got to the start of the school year um and obviously it's still continuing but uh we we will continue on this but again real world it's the special education office their hands are tied and they're being dictated what they're allowed to say and not allowed to say um it's it's something they don't like but you know that's the reality of marrow control yeah I'm sorry I would like I'm so sorry Tam I didn't know uh I just wanted to quickly reiterate you know what council member Gonzalez was saying we as parent Advocates on this Council have really pushed over the years for services for all of the matters that we hear for students with disabilities and this will this is the one time that I can say that uh the office of special education it appears to be out of their hands and I'm saying that uh in response to a lot of the comments that I'm seeing in the chat uh I think some of you have known me and know me for a long time and when I hear of things I'm I'm very I can be very pushy to make sure that our students are well represented but I but this is the one time that it just seems to be out of their hands and we have been hearing about it we have been faing it for over a month now and we just want families to feel comfortable and continue to bring their voices forward so that we can help Advocate on your behalf I was going to say the same thing but I I'm think we're all as frustrated as you are um we're all at different places with our kids right in their in their Journey some of us have you know prek kids students some are in elementary schools some are in Middle School some are in high school some are transitioning to college and I know how freaking crucial those early years are and I don't know where my kid would be right now if he didn't have that Continuum of services from prek and you know a a center based preschool and then mainstreaming to you know a public school with an ICT you know every single year there but that crucial crucial development and then to like start that work and then have it dropped it just goes away it's not okay you know and and Carolyn is right like we've all been on this for a long time and we hear you you know and it's there's literally nothing that can be done that we're not like we haven't tried or we're not trying to do but having you here means everything right and there's so many of you um and we're here for you and we'll fight for you we'll push we just have to figure out where to push now that it's not necessarily Central right but I hear you here you go if I can make a comment on if you can help me with this because I I'm I'm looking and looking for it but I can't find it um before they did this before the uh doe made this move or the the attorneys whatever the legal department did this move they specifically changed the sopm yes in order to prevent like what aelia was speaking to to say that the parents don't have those is IES parents don't have that right for due process which I mean federally it is just a violation so uh um I don't know Mark if if if you can guide us through this how else we can escalate how else we can escalate the the matter Federal either federally or through the state for for those families that are being denied their due process um because apparently the sopm can just be changed on a whim during the business meeting I'm going to propose an adjustment to the agenda to add on a discussion about OCR the office of civil rights we Carolyn and I were discussing that yesterday um there's some problems with related Services throughout um and that's IPS it's IEPs it's it's kids and all all sorts of um placements and we obviously have this issue as well and so there's and and other issues we got the busing no CR that's still ongoing so it's something we're we're going to propose to be added to the agenda tonight I have a comment yes this Council it um yes families arebi and I du process I'm working with 20 daycares Up In Harlem in the Bronx who have this issue of no related Services kids have an IEPs um while we know that we can't necessarily um deal with the Mayo control issue because that's really a state issue and that takes time is there any way that this Council can be of support or figure out a way to support these programs and families right because these kids are in these building whether they're waiting for 4410 seed or they're just related waiting for speech or OT because by law they're they're supposed to be able to get these Services um holding doe accountable to a leas provide them with vouchers to get private Services because there are families who will find a speech pathologist to do it but then they're paying out of their pocket to do it and doe doesn't want to pay so while we understand that there's a bigger broader issue that may need a longer remedy what about the immediate for families who may find services but doe refus to pay them because they can't go through due process which as you know and I impartial hearing takes months so is there a way that we as a council can probably have a conversation with doe to negotiate that at least if family finds private services that you you by law you're required to pay for them um or at least have have a conversation with the families at this point families are not even allowed to have conversation um and so I think whether it's male control or whether it's um whoever running this and I I get you know I empa ovize with the committee on special education and that office but at the end of the day they work for the system and so while legal is the big bad wolf here they're still a part of that system and our kids every day are coming in these buildings and what is not fair is 3K and prek for all is supposed to be open to all children but it is not feir for institutions like the one that I run and so many others that cannot support kids and then kids get injured or get hurt and it it poses threats to those very programs staying open so I don't know what we can do as a council but maybe there's some way that we can support it because bringing them here tonight is useless to say all these different things when we know families like young lady speaking is not getting the services that they need what are they doing to respond to that or allowing those families to get private service if anything thank you Dr Kenton we we'll certainly talk about it during the business meeting because I think there there are a couple of options and certainly we'll discuss them and any other ideas that come up at that time are there any other public comments please um yes I put 504 in the Box for you to consider um because although they are a lot of work and they have to be really comprehensive and filled out correctly they do work and what happens is there's no money with a 504 so they automatically have to put what ever is appropriately and completely requested by a medical doctor they end up putting it on an IEP and so when you mention the office of civil rights they oversee 504s and you know I'm just wondering um and I'm sure you'll discuss it in the next section of this meeting but I I spend most of my time with doctors filling out Bible boards for my students especially who have complex needs because I can't go back and forth I can't go back and forth with New York City Public Schools when I have a child that has juvenile rheumatoid arthritis who takes chemo for that condition and they're in a school building where they're walking up six flights of stairs in the morning down to the third floor back up to the sixth down to the bottom for lunch and then back up I don't have time for that and and I won't I won't discuss my age because you know I I'm not going to go back and forth so I always but my second question or third question to families are who are the doctors in your life but the doctors don't know how to fill out a 504 for them so you know I have to always you know talk to them about the intent of this document and you know go through it so that they can submit it and fill it out okay and we submit it through the 504 Channel and there's no money with 504 so they automatically have to put it on an IEP and I just think um you know that that is one of the best ways to go and it might be something that OCR would recommend to to um these parents but I think rather than approaching OCR and outside of but rather than approaching OCR in the beginning it might be best to try compreh I'm saying comprehensive 50 Force well filled out documents and then and then and and if those get rejected then you know then it's obvious viously an OCR complaint under cuz all B fors are under OCR anyway so anyway sorry to be so niely no thank you now want to I just placed the post for the New York State um Department of education's Complaint Form um last year I believe they had under 400 complaints Statewide and so they've got plenty of people to handle very few complaints it's a 60-day process you have to actually mail a letter um not an email but if you mailed a letter they will get back within 60 days um it's a tool that the state actually encourages people to use um and so I was in a meeting with with the state Ed um earlier this summer and they were complaining about the fact that they're not getting enough complaints go figure that one out but I think that's really a solution as well um to move the D New York City doe Alon is filling out the state complaint because anything when you're dealing with ocrs as we're fine with the busing complaint and we I think we passed it back in October of last year and we're still waiting on that um and with the state complaints 60 days at most so I would encourage families impacted um to to think about really filling out one of these State complaints and the link is is attached it's it's a good explanation of how to go through the process I do want to highlight that I'm I'm I'm sorry guys can I just I'm sorry Soria I apologize one moment I just want to speak to you Mark about that that's all yeah one moment okay just one minute I just wanted to remind the council that we are overtime we are very overtime so I think we can allow as Alia to speak and then we have to wrap it up and close this meeting out I appreciate that really briefly I did send out to n uh nce said a complaint the the problem is and I I'll just briefly State this is if you're going to send a complaint out T I said please make it abundantly clear that this is not about payment because this is what New York City doe is telling nid and as well as the general counsel they're saying that this is about payment because n said back in the summer said that payment or an RSA is no longer a hearable issue so when you do make a complaint it has to specifically state that the Department of Education Without notice of intent discontinued your child services otherwise n said's going to throw it right out thank you thank you sorry about that guys thank you soar meetings I make a motion to adjourn hi Rose are you there Rose e e all right it is now 8:16 on Thursday October 17th it is now the business meeting for the Citywide Council on special education we'll call to order Rose can we have a roll call I know we'll be back me sign a sheet all right we'll get roll call started in a moment Dr saai Carolyn Castro Heather Dy Mark alvz present Hernandez here Tam Reed moisis Rosario yeah Maggie Sanchez she'll be back Esther is excused I apologized MOS preson all right everyone's here okay great thank you all right um Moises would you like to be a timekeeper again all right thank you all right um I would like to add on to the agenda we need a resolution on this to talk about discuss I'm sorry a motion we have a motion my apologies um to add to the agenda um to talk about um IPS and related Services as one of the new the fifth new business topic item I cannot yes thank you is there a motion to add for new business a fifth topic there a second I second thank you all in favor post no say something yes can I I would like to yield my uh we have co-president report we have um we don't need to vote for the co-president correct but we have Lupe on yeah you're right we have five I would like to yield my uh president's report I will be sending it to you in Maggie Rose so that way we can add more time uh I also want to highlight that Milagros is here and if she has um if she would like to share or something from cchn I just wanna I'm flagging she's here because I always forget to look to see who's in the virtual care I did mentioned to her that if she had a report tonight to let us know when we come to that part of the program so that one of the two of you can talk to the interpreters all right um so since we can't approve the meeting well we don't have quum so we can't approve the meeting minutes right this second so I will do a quick co-president report um so I was at the doe inclusivity event yesterday um it was on 50th Street um in Manhattan very nice event um lot of students who came in from all five buroughs um really really nice to see um they had a speaker from um actually the school down the street um where they've got 53 members of their inclusivity Club including students with IEPs and students without IEPs and really a really powerful presentation from Dena um who was who was leading that um club and it was it was nice to see um a focus on inclusivity in the doe and student leg clubs so very very nice event very glad to see that that's the direction that we're headed um with that we had a new Chancellor start yesterday her first official School visit was to anest school which was also nice to see um that she visit a n school here in in the city um and that was a very nice I think a very powerful statement from the mayor that that was her very first visit um and and I'm very happy to see that um as we heard there is a disability Pride Parade coming up this Sunday really encourage everyone to attend if they can again starts at 12:00 noon at Madison Square Park um and then earlier this week the UFT did release a message which was very concerning it was related to school funding actually and students with disabilities and the dewe is pleading that they don't have enough money to fully fund and support students with disabilities which was a new thing to hear um with 20 28 billion plus dollars in the budget and they can't find enough money to do their federally mandated Services which is mindboggling to me where all the money is going um but that's that's what was said apparently State Department of Education is going to get involved now um and and very pleased to see the state Ed um is going to get in involved in this because it's outrageous that we're we as a city are claiming poverty with a rainy day fund of over5 billion um and knowing that there's 28 billion budget and they can't fund the simple things like otpt speech busing and as we have heard I esps well yeah I think it I I think it's a big change from David Banks who his first visit was not to a a a school with a a program that focuses on students with disabilities so I think you know image does matter and your comments about the budget are 100% correct that being said the new Chancellor hasn't had a chance to deal with the budget um it's her second day now and she's got to deal with the mayor obviously you know concerning when she said in her initial introductory press conference that she's got the mayor's back not the students back that being said she made it clear in a message yesterday to families that she has focused on the students um so I will I will be optimistic on this Chancellor um I will be optimistic on this Chancellor um and you know actions will speak louder than words but but effort does matter and her going to this program is a big statement to me and I my apologies I don't mean to talk out of order mark But I just want to flag that we didn't hear anything that whoever was speaking that you're talking to or you're commenting about was not heard so like it was just dead silence and then you started responding to whoever spoke but we couldn't hear and so I'm assuming that means interpretation we're kind of lost I apologize I apologize Lupe so Tam Tam was making sorry this is from the interpretation side um yes no it was no problem it was a silence so we couldn't interpret anything it was me sorry I didn't yeah thank you I was just pointing out um I guess the irony or maybe hypocrisy of visiting a nest program on the first day which I think is wonderful but at the same time announcing sped cuts and not having money to support our students um and I and Mark was you know talking about how the new Chancellor definitely has her mayor back like she she said that and then second to that she said that she's here for the students so I'm excited to work with her I'm just wondering how fast we can get this town hall going which I don't know if we have on the agenda today or that's number six on the agenda all right um we will move on um we now have quum in person so the next thing after the time keeper was approval of the meeting minutes Rose did provide the minutes in email and in physical form are there any changes or adjustments to the minutes as presented okay if there are no changes or adjustments to the minutes then they are approved thank you next on the topic is member reports I'm sorry I don't mean to cut up to cut in you were doing a motion before Oh yes to change the agenda thank you um the the mo the comment was adding a fifth topic for new business and that was related to the UFT letter related services and OCR go ahead we we well we're no we're not there yet we were when you stepped out we were passing a motion and we realized we didn't have enough members so that's so I reminded him to go back to that you were absent for the meeting you sent a note it's it's a non- excused absence you sent an email at 10 p.m. when we were still having an actual meeting at that time if it was emergency you did not make that clear in the letter I apologize okay you said you had a fever and you went home from work I I don't need that but I did not understand an emergency and we had to follow Chancellor's reg so if it's emergency the Chancellor's regs make it there are very specific that allow for an excused absence right our by our our bylaws are to let us know before 10: a.m. with the exception the chancellor does have some things and an emergency does count as an excuse absence so if it's an ex if this is emergency then it's an excuse absence so is there a a motion to adjust your the meeting minutes to say that it's an excused absence is there a second okay all in favor opposed I'm sorry what what is the motion and again we could not hear on the virtual end what was happening it was a one-sided conversation so I stated that it says I'm absent but I needed to Clarity if it was excuse or non- excuse I sent an email because I was in the emergency and I was asking and he said that it was non excused and I said to him what you need for me to make it excused um and then he went on to say that we should readjust that the chanc of Regulation says it's excused so I guess at this point is an excus absence am I correct you said it was an emergency so Chancellor's regulations D I'll send you the paperwork Mark let's not play these games I'm not trying to play games I'm trying to be very clear that we have a bylaw that says that you have we have to notify 5 before 10:00 a.m. the day of a council mean for a sickness but that is superseded by Chancellor's regulations d150 it says the following constitute valid excuses for absence death of a relative or attendance at a relative's funeral Serious injury or serious illness or injury and that's what you just explained today that you had a serious illness and that was not clear in the email you sent you explained it now Dr Canton and so the resol the motion was to make it a excused absence and not an absence there was a motion there was a second we had an all in favor there was all eyes I said any Nays and there was none and abstain there was none so it is listed officially as an excused absence okay okay is there anything else with the meeting minutes any other changes okay MOS you have your hand up is that for member report or is that for the meeting minutes interpreters can you please check with malagos if she has any comments on the minutes MOS no no okay thank you you're wel okay so then the me minuts are approved with the change for Dr siai beckles Canton to be excused absence okay next is member reports are there any member reports Spanish interpreter can you ask mogas if she has a member report yes good evening to everyone the the report that I'm going to be giving you is in reference to the buses is the and that the the problem with the buses is actually really a crisis okay okay uh so we really need to make a solution to this in a very short uh time period um I have a resolution in mind and I'm going to be asking for your help and to be a to be able to help the children with uh special needs uh in the buses okay thank you and I also want to make a comment about the problem uh that the parents brought up tonight it's a violation of everyone's rights uh that the Department of Education that doesn't that the Department of Education doesn't provide services for prek kids with special needs or with special educa yeah special education it's a crisis with so much money that the Department of Education has the kids don't have education this is sad H the parents are um uh out of um oh my goodness um desperate desperate thank you the parents are desperate and all and the parents and all the people that hear these um violations of the uh what is it Ada right yes there should be an emergency resol resolution um and that this situation shouldn't be continuing on that's everything thank you gracias are there any other member reports for tonight I I'm sorry I'm going to revise what I said earlier I would like to give a small portion of my member of my president's report um because it is um because I wanted to share with the council since the council members have been reaching out um we have been getting questions from the council members to support Milagros in her transition into cchs we have been getting questions about the quality of the interpretation services that she is being provided in the assistance and setup when she attends the cchs meetings so I just wanted to let everybody here know that we have I'm so sorry uh could you please speak a little loud because we getting the lot of background noise and U it's hard for my partner to understand without a microphone sure I will thank you so much can you hear me better much better thank you okay so what I was saying was I was going to give a small portion of my co-president report because council members have been asking and reaching out to both Mark and I to provide meos services and supports as she transitions into the cchs and I want to let the council know that Mark and I and Maggie have been supporting Milagros to make make sure that her interpretations are set up at the meetings um to field any questions that she has with her role in the cchs and to let everyone know that this is not a one-time event we will continue to support Milagros as needed and to thank all of the council members who are showing up to the cchs meetings because I haven't been able to uh to provide her support and to make sure that she is transitioning in and has everything that she needs I'm yielding the rest of my time any other member reports okay no yes sorry very briefly I just wanted to um inform the public that there was I attended a uh blue rib the the Blue Ribbon Commission amb ambassadors public forums they um the the blue Riven commission um that these forms Citywide and um they were in regards to um the regions um so they're taking input from from you know Statewide um families providers you name it um on you know the path to um High School to path to a diploma what those different paths will look like um and so this is an area that focuses a lot on students with disabilities because as we know um it's you know the region uh become uh or having a Region's diploma becomes a big challenge for students graduating from high school and um students with disabilities that you know don't really do well on tests um for X Y andz so um there was a lot of input a lot of good input from a lot of the members um that attended I will share the link for the thought exchange survey on thoughts um that the uh blue Riven commission is asking from the public um I think the dates for that are are completely I think they're they're done but um they should have the recordings available in their website so I will you know look for that and share that as well um I also want to point out that there will be a um city council uh hearing coming up on on on the on Youth and some um let uh regul um resolutions or regulations um that they will be trying to pass um and on summarising so um I will show that share that as well I just wanted to highlight that that's coming up and just so everyone's aware the state Regents meet again on November 4th and is expected they will vote on the 4th to change the Regent requirements and the pathways to graduate at that time um they certainly gave plenty of hints at the last um regions meeting but we'll see again November 4th I don't know if you know Maggie or anybody else knows but if there's been a date set yet for was city council um Rita forget her last name yeah Joseph and Michael Mulgrew of UFT were looking at the side cuts um and the lack the deficit of actual spread supports and services missing Services focusing on related Services specifically but also some sets and um classroom designation so I know there's going to be a hearing and so I think that we need to know when and I don't know if they've scheduled it I know this memo this letter from Rita Joseph just went out on the 15th um so we should keep our eye on it and see if we can show up and give testimony or work on an a written testimony together once that date set but we might want to start brainstorming and looking at what they're looking at just to get ahead of it a little bit yeah thank you any other member reports okay let's move on um number six on the agenda is the face update um Anthony is out of town we were going to get an update on the town hall which was supposed to have been a week ago obviously they cancelled with the change of leadership that happened yesterday um we have been in contact with PA trying to get a new date and we'll we'll let the council know as soon as we get date options so we can vote as a council on the next date it gives sorry Mark what what was the change of leadership just so well we have a new Chancellor right and that's what effective today she started yesterday so the new Chancellor um and that's presumably why they postponed the Hall was supposed to have been a week ago today um they never gave an official reason but I presume that's what it was um so as soon as we hear from face or Anthony we will we will get a message out to everybody and then at our next meeting we can we can vote on the date options they give if they give options um or just one date which normally I mean they gave us last time I think what two or two dates to choose from so um committee reports any committee reports for tonight I know we're running late so I know this is going to come up in in new business but um um I need to put a busing and transportation committee meeting on the calendar uh so I was looking at either Monday October 28th or Tuesday October 29th which will give us enough time to kind of discuss potentially putting a survey just AB busing like what's going on since the school year started um so we can have some data to present at that meeting uh so uh I don't know which day works best either is okay for me um I just know that if malagos is going to come we're going to want to make sure we have Spanish interpreter um and then I guess then because we won't meet again until November I probably should motion to um make a motion to create a survey about the status state of busing uh that we can send out second okay so the motion is to create a survey on busing um for the committee meeting we have a second send out before our next meeting yeah to to our community of parents and families that'd be an update for the next for the November 17th it'd be similar to what we said November 21st okay um all in favor I I any opposed was that I okay and any extensions yeah I I'm more than happy to send like the questions to the council to look at in between um um but I guess asking folks to trust me to put the survey together and send it out the motion passed we one had one day just ask so there was I don't know if you can put this on the survey or if this you're just like the person I think of when I think of all of the busing issues um in Lupe all of you but yeah um there was outside of cchs which I know we're going to speak to later I don't want to forget this and I I think I might have shared it with um some people but there was a a dad at the cc20 meeting which was the same night as a cc HS meeting who was bringing up like the itemization of certain accommodations like trying to find bus related accommodations in somewhere to be able to justify it for it to get done by the office of by opt and the doe and the accommodation was for a seat belt buckle cover and apparently there are a lot of parents who need these for their for their children for physical safety reasons um so I just wanted to highlight that I know that you already know all these things but I just wanted to elevate what he said you know so I would say if you hear that from parents and groups and whatever just tell them to email our inbox and then um we can we can follow up um I my neighbor's kids got out of his seat belt and tried to open the back door of the bus while it was moving so that he definitely needed a different kind of seat belt and seat belt covers so that they can't open their the seat belt latch um and it shouldn't shouldn't be hard to get and I hear people passing it like they ask the bus company bus company says ask doe and doe says the bus company is supposed to provide it and then it just goes back and forth so I you're not the first I've heard this from um all also in addition to um the busing survey we actually created a busing stories form um I'm going to post the link in the chat and then I'm going to blast it out everywhere and I'm going to have Rose send it out too and this form is just so parents are aware is really um just to get the experiences and stories of parents uh through summer in this school year with busing problems so that it can be um sent to the legal people who help put together the OCR complaint um and they can follow up with families and and it's really um meant to be forwarded to OCR um to try and encourage them and show evidence that this persistent continue so that they're more likely to open an off an official investigation which they have not done as of yet um so any parent you can submit the form a bunch of times every time you have a new a new busing story please send it to us um and I'll I'll make sure to regularly post it in all the communities I send surveys out to on a fairly regular basis um it's just going to remain open all the time we'll now move on to unfinished business um Cel has requested a joint meeting with us um it looks like a date in febru well we're trying to figure out but it looks like the month of February would make the most sense makes a lot of sense there's obviously a tremendous overlap between students with disabilities and non-english language uh a first language being English speakers um and obviously with dial um living straddling Both Worlds and having both worlds under them it makes a lot of sense so they actually reached out out to us and Bros has been working um with their team as well to try to find a date in February my guess is we'll we'll lock down a date and then lock down a date and then vote be able to vote on it at the November meeting or I hope at least is that Rose is there anything you like to add and share yes I believe I believe that the cell meets the first week in the month and CCSC meets the third week in the month I thought that maybe the second week of the month would be perfect to meet um have that joint meeting y'all can vote on that tonight and I'll just present it to them then find out if they're interested in doing the second week would anyone like to place a motion to hold the me a joint meeting with Cecil for the second week in February 2025 thank you you so Moises placed the motion and Tam second the motion all in favor I I hi sh um can we clarify shamim which position I yes yes yes thank you shim is on record saying yes the motion passes um can I just add the seat um while we're on the topic of working with other citywides uh thank you to Milagros for raising issues on bus for busing for high school students uh we received an email from cchs asking to identify what we have been doing with the uh busing issues and how they're being handled and Heather has shared with them the um the OCR complaint right well we've shared information I don't remember what it is up the top of my head and we've also invited uh cchs to our November meeting with opt and they've responded today saying that they I believe the president will be in attendance um in support of students with disabilities who are experiencing busing issues at the high school level we can't hear I I finished what I was saying did you hear what I said Lupe we heard you I just see we heard you Carolyn but if anyone else was it sounded like someone else was talking no one else okay um so now we're moving on to nine new business so recap meeting with Ola that was me um it's not really a recap I just wanted to um say to the council members that we've invited bangala and Mandarin for over a year and a half now with no one using the service I just thought we need to stop you know you know cancel those those two languages and put on our flyer that if anyone needs interpretation to get back to a you know request that interpretation and you know I have a a copy of a sample U meeting notice that you can see the information I put at the bottom regarding um interpretation so if um the council will agree on that we'll just you know stop requesting bangala and Mandarin continue to bring in Spanish because we do have Spanish um speakers as well as our two members who um need interpretation Spanish interpretation as well and since we are starting to get on having our meetings and topics well in events we can submit the translation in time and get that back so that we can send it out to the public and then they can get back to us and then timely on whether or not the need interpretation request request interpretation Lupe you have your hand up I will say to that Rose um I strongly disagree age and I only say that because I know that we as CC SE teamed up on the bus Town Hall where there were hundreds of participants and we helped in providing the interpretation and there were several families that needed Mandarin and we didn't request Mandarin I think based off of our maybe our our past Year's worth of meetings but if we want to start collaborating with citywides like Citywide English language Learners um we we we need to be able to provide those Services fam a lot of times families don't know about the meetings and may find out the day of and would not give them the opportunity to participate if they found out within the 10 days that's required to request those services and we know as parents that have found this space we found it because there was a problem and sometimes you know this is the only space you have to come and get answers to those problems or at least get guidance on how to address those issues and having language access for them I think in this space is like super important because we represent Citywide students with disabilities AC acoss the five burrows not just in public schools but Charters and and and your 4410 and 853s so I I really think that it doesn't harm us to have interpretation available and and releasing them as we have um so that any family member that does choose to join us has that ability to participate may I say something I say something I I see both points um what I would like to see is if is there a way where if if interpretation has been requested is there a way that we can go back and capture because we're I like data and if we have evidence that people are asking or requesting certain languages then I would say yes let's hold on to it for every meeting but if we are continuously having interpretation for a language and there are no audience members and it's not being utilized and I think we need to look at that and pivot to something that may be more useful so my happy medium is do we have a policy in place or is there a process in place for interpretation being requested is that like when they register they click a button or something that could go into the um meeting request in Zoom but it's also going to go on the flyer and as long as we get the flyer out in time and manner then they can get back to us with the request but again we've over a year and a half now both those two if you want we can change up the languages because we haven't had anyone the only time we had mandarins when we had a member that was it I think the challenge with the flyer is are we hitting all the community that we need to be hitting right are we getting it out to the mandering community is our mailing list good enough right I hate to exclude unless we feel 100% confidence that our mailing list is hitting the banga Community appropriately the mandering community appropriately now if you want to say maybe we need to change up the languages because there's a different language out there that's certainly something to think about but I I think another thing is we talked about the town hall having sign language because it's not just during that meeting it's the video after and so I hate to restrict if we think that the town hall there might be a view after it's the same thing for our regular means but I also don't want to be wasting money if if we're not if the service isn't being provided we got to look at what are we doing internally to make sure that those communities are hearing about the meetings and I'm not sure frankly that I have done a good enough job um of making sure we're engaging with those communities and those PE and the communities that speak those languages I think there may there there's there's more we need to look at internally before we turn off anything um but I'm open to suggestions because I don't have a I just want to suggest a year and a half is clear history we haven't used it we're definitely not going to use it um I would say I would suggest we cancel it and then if we we commit to an Outreach in the community in whatever language then we will add that service at the same time we do the Outreach and see see what happens but to to just continue paying for this without the Outreach we're going to get the same results so I would say cancel it plan an outreach program and then bring it back can can we consider we are in October can we consider for the next two months and I think Mark and I can help you um identifying districts and maybe Cecil AA to um get the ward out we I think if we make an attempt from now until the end of the year we really try to push it out and we get no interpretation requests in January we should have this conversation again and it'll be a different conversation but I I I see see everyone's point so it's hard to take one position but I do think that we should attempt to reach more people and we have a joint meeting coming up and we have the cchs people coming into one of our meetings so it will open up who's going to attend our meeting so let's keep some data on what type of requests and uh translation services are being asked of us in the next two months is everybody okay with that can I also request these notifications to be sent out in these dialects so that they know and can can actually consume the information to be able to put in a request um I know that we had a meeting with Ola earlier this year Lupe and I I believe you were on that meeting I was but the my point is that we can't like there has to be a both and here like you can't cut off a community without being able to communicate to them what that process is and and our notification is not efficient if the person does not possibly read English like if it's not in their native language and so now we're now Pro not providing something and also not giving them access to know how to to be able to provide that service right and I'm not disagreeing with you I'm just saying that I was bringing up the fact that we had the meeting with Ola because they gave us some clear deadlines and I have to go back and check my notes but there is a time frame to provide all this information so um you know I think that's something we can continue talking about after this meeting but I know we all did the due diligence of meeting to see how we could go about that and we just have to refresh to know what those deadlines are so I put this in the chat but this may be a solution if we can figure out how to make it happen on the website so so the website could have a drop- down language selector similar to what's on the doe website we could do like a boilerplate message for the email that's translated into all of the languages that says there's an important message um on our website please follow the link to check it and then that link can just go to the page that has the information and then they can use the drop- down to select their language that might be a way to improve the communication with having to get every single email translated oh I'm so sorry this actually came up um regarding all of the languages I can only do what I can do for our two Spanish speaking members when you want to add all of the other languages in that's when Ola that's when Ola has to come in and then that's not my responsibility Ola would have to take care of all of the languages no so what I'm proposing is is that you would only have to get that one email like the boiler plate translated and you would just copy and paste that every time and it would link to the the website so they would see that in their language there's important information about upcoming stuff on ccsse or whatever we want to phrase it and then the link would go in and then when they got to the website they could choose their language and it would translate it okay can I just add on really quickly I think that's a good idea I think that um whatever we do it's not going to be fixed in the shortterm but it's a longer term goal and I was thinking about you know that relies or that assumes a certain level of digital literacy which not all our families have right so what are we doing as a Citywide to connect with District superintendence right there's there's many of us we can start that process and build those relationships cuz they have relationships with principles there's communities within those districts that we could be doing a lot of Outreach to but thinking about it strategically and like step by step and having goals set right for each district each superintendent and so they can help like we can partner with districts with schools to reach those communities because what we're doing isn't working for for some right we're not getting it out there um in the way that we're trying to do it it's just not working so I'm I agree with Lupe that I don't want to cut off that that connection right and I don't I know none of us want to waste money but I don't think that access being offered is is a waste you know even if one person shows up but I do think that January would be a good deadline right but I don't realistically see what we could do in three months to to change anything that's the problem and I I think part of it's you know we we'll we'll talk to Cil I I think January is probably not the right month because we have the meeting with cell the very next month I would think it's really March um but I will reach out this next between this next this week and next week I'll reach out to Cel get some ideas see what their stats look like for for Mandarin bengala and the other languages to see what what they're getting interpretation on um because that one that Citywide should have the broadest reach um for multilanguage Learners and families who speak multiple languages and so I think you know I'll reach out to them and see what what they have going on what their data looks like because I think they may have some suggestions on how they go about reaching out or we may able to see what mailing lists or who they're targeting as well for each of these languages so let me let me do some some work on my side um and then I will certainly get back to everybody and if you if you got any ideas please reach out and Lupe you had a good chat um comment in there as well thank you yeah no more more thought I've had my hand up so I just I was going to ask you may I be recognized um to to that point I just want to I think again it's a both end because um Ola can be used to it was very frustrating honestly being in that meeting because it's all information they went over several times over and over and um deadlines are very hard and they can be met because other ccs are doing it and it's Bangla and and you know Mandarin they have it in in many different it it can be done it's not and it's not our budget guys this is not our money I don't know why all of a sudden um this is a it's called access it's open meetings law it is actually required that families have access to this space I can't believe that we are actually considering cutting off where I know some districts are having a hard time um being able to secure the interpretation and we are a Citywide it it doesn't make sense um on a Citywide level that any person can decide to join our meeting at the day of and just not have access to it because we're choosing not to provide it can I can I just comment um one idea that comes to mind is that if we could just meet the the communities where they are like maybe some of them don't have um they're not as sex savy so is there is there a way for either us as individuals or us as a counsil to be able to do that Outreach to those communities um in person or connect with other organizations to spread the word whether it's through WhatsApp whether it's through other means um where they where they are because I think that's where the Gap is it's not that they don't have anything to say or they don't want to come it's just the fact that we're not reaching them there's a there's a barrier there we're not reaching those communities and so believe me there are students with disabilities that are um that have families with that are banga speakers that are mentoring speakers so and they are the the ones that are either getting the less of the services because providers are hard to get or you know um they just are UND go undiagnosed for year and so as a Citywide we have a responsibility to those communities as well so if we could think outside the box again um you know we in Queens we have a lot of banga uh uh speakers you know the I don't know I'm just I volunteer to to do that Outreach um if anyone wants to help but I I really think that this is an outside of the box kind of thinking point I didn't get to make before was like as far as it go ahead Rose I apologize wasn't saying anything it it wasn't Rose it was oh shamine I'm sorry shamine no it's okay um I just want to also say that I um would like to volunteer on any um committee for outreach and um just as a related note I was just talking with um I met up with an um colleague and he told me I don't know about the other burs but the Brooklyn um Public Library um there's like a grant funded program um at all of the Brooklyn Public Libraries where they help um people who come to the libraries you know to become more tech savvy and navigate so it's you even other partners outside of um the districts but I'd be more than happy to you know go to superintendence Etc whatever needs to be done but you know there are um ways for us to help spread the word and help just want to add that thank you and Heather what I just Lupe I I had not finished I apologize I there was a point that I had wanted to make as far as we fought for that contract for Ola we fought for translation services we got the funding we need to utilize it Ola is available to do our notifications in every language yes to the widget but don't restrict our notifications in other languages especially if we are in the future I hope ever going to be just not ordering these Services if it's not requested these notifications then need to go out in every language Ola can do it okay thank you um we so I heard Maggie and I heard shamine thank you for offering your support to putting actions forward um you I just want to add we we're not going to discontinu it we just eliminating the language you're not using we can always add a new one if someone else comes in that speaks a different language that's not mentioned or you know bring back the languages when it is needed so if you look at it as just these two languages I think you're you're locking yourself into uh eliminating other ones I say eliminate what's not being used and bring in what's being used be it French tomorrow be it Italian the day after or Mandarin next month and just bring it when we need it rather than pay for it for a year and a half unused we still have the service we just need to request it when we need it what happens if a person sees out flyer decides the day of I want to come to the meeting but I'm Mandarin or I'm from one of these communities we discontinue is there a way we can still get an interpreter the that's that's the challenge that we're that's you're hitting you're hitting it that's that's the great challenge right the other challenge is there's 170 other languages being spoken in New York City we're not covering and that's that's the other big challenge but I'm just asking a question if if that's the case and they have to do it in advance is there is there a time frame do I got to do it in three days Advance do I got to do it in 10 days and are we going to put that on the notice that if you speak a language you have to notify Us in seven days now then the question becomes if I can't get interpretation but I still want to inter be a part of the meeting is there a way for us to then if they if we know that that person is in a meeting and say we don't have interpretation that we can get our minutes or get whatever we have translated because I might be in a meeting right and I I can't say I do it the day of but there's some things that was said that I want to know is there a way that I know we put our minutes or whatever up if you knew that there was people in that audience that spoke those languages making sure that we get at least get our minutes translated so that they'll least know what was said that's what I was thinking so they would have to make that request as well they would have to let us know that they need the minutes translated even if it's a I'm sorry what no I'm just saying that they would have to request the minutes I've had people outside after our meeting is over with they wanted to request something now we're just now starting to do our minutes because that is not one of the documents that oh Ola translates for CC's we had to put a special request in for that and this is the first one I haven't received it back yet it takes 10 days 10 15 days for the translation of the minutes but um I'm sorry we canot hear you if we get rid of the service if it just so happen that somebody wants the information is there a way for us to just provide the information that's all I'm asking short answer is yes and the in the mean with Ola they they made it clear there's date and time issues but absolutely and as Rose just said they agreed to do the minutes for CCSC as a I'll call it a off and so if we need translation of the meeting minutes or other documents they were willing to do that with I'll call it within reason they're not going to translate a 60-page document but the meeting minutes Rose showed an example in the meeting of what was it two two the four pages on average for meeting minutes they were comfortable doing that within the 10 15 days um so there was that's about our member that's because that's for our member so that really does not is that's for the public as well if there is re request from the public then we can have it translated into whichever language the individual requests that that's what they said in the meeting is as long as we request it that they are capable of doing it for us hi I don't mean interrupt but it has become my role every meeting to remind people that we are very well over time so I see that Maggie shamine and I see Lupe thank you to the three of you for volunteering we will connect with you after this meeting with rose to start strategizing a greater Outreach in relation to language judices you want to continue mark under new business um there is a document in the packet that Rose provided with a new proposed budget um Rose would you mind going over the adjustments that you're that are being proposed please no adjustments this is just to let you know what's in the um the line item we have to take money from we started out at 3500 we used 600 already so there's 2900 left and right now I would say the last laptop I purchased was um $995 we can move out maybe $1,200 because I have to buy other equipment for that laptop as well we can move um $1,200 out of that account into a line for equipment you want to move 1,200 out of and expenses I'm sorry okay so we motion so I just Lupe can I before you motion so 3500 we would take 1,200 out and be at 2,300 for mean expenses is a new budget I'm sorry the balance right now is 2900 in the med expenses line if we take 1,200 out of that that leaves um what 15 yes but we have to take it out of the budget amount right it's out of budget amount so we'd be at 2,300 there and then we'd add in a line item for equipment for 1,200 that's what you're saying no what are you saying you want to take 1,200 out of meain expenses budget amount and move it to which line item equipment I have to add new line item equipment okay I have a question uh Rose have you have you assessed the cost to B 1200 what if it's more do you need more money no my computer no I'm just I before we go into that I just want to make sure that 1,200 is sufficient have you had a chance to to make sure can maybe we can how can we hit I mean for for from a you have to purchase to a d purchasing system correct yeah I mean there's we can get a computer for Sub sub 1200 no problem I guess the question is what else do you need you need a new printer or what are we what are we talking about that's already taken care of in that line for supplies but for I will need headphones 1500 I think well I think it's a fair assessment I think why don't we do this can we do we need to vote I hope we don't yeah we need to vote it's no what I was gonna say was do do if we go a little higher and you don't spend as much we can reallocate that I would rather give you sufficient then give you not enough oh yeah you can well the one I had two years old you get a Mac the only thing they offer now a Mac so I'm gonna have to wait until January for them put PC we have till March I believe to amend the budget yes lupy you're 100% correct Black Friday it doesn't matter doe overspends on everything that's Cyber Monday but it it doesn't matter doe over ends on everything well no no I still have to go through doe system so yeah have to go through right I'm sorry I'm making way with the one that's here we can't he we can't hear the other just asking there's it seems like she needs we should get moving on purchasing it so we should vote because she needs and just put more money than we think she actually needs so that there's a little bit of a cushion so you can get everything you need right so is there a motion to reduce mean expenses by $1,500 and add a line item of equipment for $1,500 there a motion for that I motion to take, 1500 from the meeting line item and move it to the device Electronics line item is there a second second all in favor of moving $1,500 from mean expenses to line item equipment and as L stated hi hi hi any extensions okay all right motion passes thank you thank you Rose Mark before you move on from the budget I just wanted to ask a like an an aside question about the food um about the food yeah um how do I ask this um can we get different food that it's cheaper you know that's because it's you sign me please yes yeah I just but keep keep in mind that we can only pay one spend $150 and that would include delivery per meal or or a year sorry a year or per meal no each month each each month month M if anyone wants to talk to Rose about food I mean Ro Rose is all knowledgeable on that okay next is the d210 discussion okay the d210 so that Lupe hears me that d210 uh was on the agenda for the meeting that has now been cancelled okay and fourth is the cchs busing Carolyn spoke about that earlier the d210 meeting was a meeting sent by face to the co-presidents and the presidents throughout the whole city and that meeting was cancelled by face um members of the council who were aware of the meeting asked and we asked advocated for them to be included in the meeting as well and face decline that because they well they stated that it was really only for presidents and a designate but that has since been cancelled so they they have not given us a date for you guys to meet again okay thank you for the clarity okay and then we talked about the cchs busing already so the actually I want to I want to before we talk about the fifth item um remember Lera submitted her resignation yesterday to to the council so want everyone to be aware um she had personal um issues and family um that she had to focus on and so she did have to resign I'm sad sad to see L Tera leave but you know family's got to come first and she's got to come first for herself um but we really appreciate the time she gave to the council and I know she's she wants to stay involved but uh thank you L Tera so that being said we need to open up uh the seat rows if we can please post that opening we also need the posting for the student member we have one me we have an individual who has a child who is interested but we have not received the application so those are two positions we can't post that though we can't post I'm sorry I'm updating without telling you to post it yeah that's open as well so on our website for the student member what I did before when we did had a vacancy is I just said vacancy and then I put the link to the application which tells them to send it to face we're not allowed to do that that's no that's definitely absolutely we just can't we don't get to say in the individual that's all doe Central okay now did we talk about cchs we what did we say because I missed it I reported when we were talking about Cecil that cchs had reached out to us and that they want that we invited them to the November meeting do you remember me saying that no because it was wrapped up in your seel or whatever you were talking about so no I thought it was separate I thought you touched on it and we were going to actually really discuss it but if that's Ted for later I mean I didn't hear much except what you just said and there was a lot to say after being at that meeting and I spoke to both of the chairs of the meeting and some other members um and wanted to bring that here right as part of that conversation um so yeah I missed I missed that completely I mean well it doesn't seem like people have time so there was a lot I mean this goes into the conversation about how we can support Moss right and that's how it started and I know I've talked to other people and other members about what I see in those meetings um I know L and you know all of us that can we we go to support mogr I don't know if you're still on the call but we're there and I also know that we can't text you or talk to you during the meeting because um there's no computer right or you know for for her to use so we go through the transl lator to let them know that we're there to let her know that we're there and listening supporting her there's a whole conversation to be had about that part of it um and it seems like I know you've already done a lot on that end but there's a lot more that I think we can do that I saw and I think it's a a great idea for the two of you to meet with cchs and with you know the the interpreters or what do you call it the office of translation face to let cchs also know how to run translation and live interpretation in a meeting and what the expectations are so that our members is not excluded from participating in that meeting okay moving on because I know that's a separate thing it's just very important and I just want to talk about that but like this is cchs right so the busing issue was brought up um it was stated to me that it's not a civil rights violation for students with mandated busing not to get their busing and to miss school so there was just a lot of misinformation like lack of General understanding around mandated busing and the fact that high schoolers have that and they asked what we had done on the issue when I brought it up told them about the OCR told them about piss told them about about every everything else that we've done there was a question if we've ever written any resolution if we write resolutions in said we've written many check them out and then there was a big push to collaborate with ccsse to work on a resolution of some sort to work on the busing situation and to get the two councils together so that's why I was curious about just that piece of it like how that's going to work out but I know it's long it's it's multifaceted so I think we should both answer so I will since I'm more the administrative part of it I'll answer that part and then he can talk about policies and all that on the administrative part yes we have and I think I've reported that already we met with face we had uh Milagros and the face reps Mark and I to go over specifically how the cchs is supposed to function and provide services from a Ross we went over with milross what her role is in that when she needs support when to flag for support now I think you said something about telling cchs and if I said if I'm interpreting this wrong correctly but you said something along the lines of interpreting how cchs is supposed to manage their meetings that is not something we can do okay so this is a I mean this is for everybody every Council that deals with membership right it's Robert's Rules it's governance it's it's basic structure and bylaws so it's not like they don't want to or they're just in violation of something it's what are the expectations for membership for Access for each member and it should look the same you can't have the president of a council translating should have a translator at all times it should be live trans ation you shouldn't have the option of having it what's said in Spanish by Our member translated into English it's not optional you have to what's the point and this isn't happening so it's just that that bylaws the rules the laws that govern all of us right it's not just cchs it might just be a learning curve so when I say meet with them it's like it's not like for instance it's not optional when morros is in the in the room and she makes a report and it's like oh do you want to translate that or not have that translated into English so that everybody can hear what she said yeah they literally actually tried to bypass the interpreter from translating what it was that she said because they heard busing and they essentially tried to minimize her report or comment and just say oh she's talking about busing again we don't need that interpreted that was extremely wrong um and I am very thankful for The Interpreter who was online who stepped in and but even it was sad because The Interpreter asked the chair would you like me to interpret and I I put in the chat no Please interpret that's wrong for the chair to try to bypass interpretation for Milagros as a member um and I will state that when brought up the busing maybe the second time and this was the time they tried to bypass her comment um it was then an attack on ccsse as if what is it that ccse is doing in regards to busing and what what have y'all done what resolutions have you passed and did question the OCR that was brought up and stating that this is not a civil rights violation um so it was very antagonistic towards Milagros towards our Council and their effort to want to collaborate on a resolution is feudal at best but um happy to work on something that will impact and and help support our high school students that are not getting to school because of these busing issues but I I I do think it is important what Tam is saying because um context matters that Dr Kenton oh I just I just have a question for this Council CCH CS has always had an issue with our Council no matter who we put on there's an issue and so I think at this point if the law says we have a right to put someone on and bring the issues I have a son now who is in District 2 and I go to the meetings I sit and I'm observing the first few set meetings but I'm planning to make my way there cuz my son is a kid who's not getting busing and it's on his I and to sit and see how they disregard and treat her in a such disrespectful manner but she's not the first one it's it's the ones previous so at some point I feel like this Council needs to have a meeting with them and face and we need to have a conversation about how are we going to implement Our member and have her voice and her space be respected CU at this point the disrespect is too much all right and I I don't know how we doing it if we do it in small groups but I have a son in District 2 with a disability who's supposed to get services and everyone who goes to those meetings are antagonized by this group of people who have just been allowed to behave that way so I don't know what we do but I feel like if faces the Watchdog for C C's um we have to make some sort of noise and I I say nothing at the last meeting because I knew a few of us was there and my husband and I was just my husband was here so he kind of kept me back but I was a little bit frustrated that it was just a total disrespect to her as a woman of color as to her as a Spanish speaking woman and if we're going to put people there we as a council have got to stand in solidarity I know that we do behind the scenes but has to be something we do in the front and I don't know how we do that but I think it's important that we do so sorry Mark so I'm gonna apologize to you because I wasn't at the last meeting and I I think I had mentioned that but um that is not what I received in the in the email that I received right so I got a very carefully crafted email that said they wanted collaboration which I think I notified you all of so I was not aware of what occurred that changes things we did have the meeting but we had it under a different premise of supporting malagos and getting her to understand what she is supposed to be doing and providing her the support tools that she needs to perform her functions this is a very different conversation we're having right now so we need toou regroup on reach out for those purposes just quick clarifying questions so I noticed when malos is she here oh hi when she uh MOS when you give your your committee report for your ccsse committee report um are if is that coming from malro solely or is that coming from all of us like are we helping with a report that goes from rccs rep to cchs because I don't know a if she would like that support right so she's feeling like she's representative of like that this Council that she's not put on the spot but also when do we do that and how do we do that so that was my first question and then it doesn't seem the translation still not happening she spoke for five minutes I clocked it right she spoke for five minutes the translation when they finally agreed to translate into English was like 30 seconds and it was and it was not even correct and so there's also an issue with the translation right and then she's so and I know that's an ongoing but I just wanted to flag that and then I don't think she's getting resolutions the agenda the context the attached materials any of that in Spanish prior to the meeting so she can fully participate in that meeting she's a member so this is what I mean when I say like we need to you you guys or whoever need to meet with them just in face to be like this this is what you have to do by law right and this is just decorum decorum out the window because we're not going to get anywhere with them on that but this you know what I mean yeah I think that they feel like malagos is a a member of our Council and she just comes to give them updates but they need to be reminded that malagos is a member of their Council she is a c CH HS council member not a ccsse council member no it's the next meeting is on Wednesday November 13th I will be here for that um Dr kanton thank you for attending in in person last time L but my husband didn't allow me to just wanted to be at the meeting because we now have a kid that's in a high school in downtown so yeah I think we can I think we can collaborate and and so for those of so malagos I don't is she on okay malagos if you would like to if you would like to speak please feel free to raise your hand and we will recognize you but um for everybody who has been going to the CC HS meetings in support of Sal MOS I'm tired I'm sorry thank you very much um continue to do so and we will figure out some way to have somebody present at each meeting moving forward and yes this has been historical um we just we just had different personalities sitting in that position so yes we will be paying more attention I I would like to ask if Milagros has anything to say any to comment on on what we just talked about she missed part of the meeting cuz there was there was a background noise but uh I'm part of the meeting part of what we what we were talking about for the C cchs but me see um what I not good evening um I wanted to make a comment and say thank you for what you're doing [Music] but okay so I wanted to speak about uh the background noise the interpretation is good when I'm able to hear it yeah yeah to be able to listen better the problem is that there's a lot of background noise uh that I'm hearing uh when the interpreting so the interpretation quality is good but the background noise uh that's coming from uh behind the people that are speaking makes it really difficult to understand uh what's being said I don't want to lose any of her thoughts okay so um so what what happens in the interpretation in the past not necessarily today is when the interpreters change from one interpreter to the other uh and not today um you lose a few seconds and sometimes it's minutes so with that kind of situation it makes it difficult to have the the continue the continuation I speak uh some English but I do uh rely on the interpretation H that's everything uh I really appreciate what you're doing okay lross thank you and interpreter thank you we really appreciate your your help on this you've been great tasas thank you uh thank you all all right I'm going to keep it brief um yeah we will we will work on this some more um hearing everyone loud and clear and clearly more work than we thought to do I I I don't think I understood the extent of the problem um but it's bigger than what what I initially understood so we will get on it thank you all right um last topic um Dr kanton you you brought up um during the present at the end of the presentation a comment about service is not happening if I interpreted it correctly um and kids not getting what they need and what do we do about it is kind of how I'm paraphrasing if I I paraphrased it correctly and I think it's a problem we've got and it's IPS it's the preki and it's certainly the kids who are are not getting the busing they need they're not getting otpt speech Paras I mean Paras are a Ultra needed in this system and they're not just there's such a lack of um ICT is a problem we've got major issues and major violations of federal law by this school School District going on and it's we've got to figure out as a council what our next step is because clearly we've been vo in it um and this goes on for how many councils I mean it's not this is not the first Council last Council it was an issue Council before it goes on and on and on at some point we've got to figure out next steps in a different strategy because just voicing it ain't working to get meaningful change we're getting nickel and dimes here and changing the little bit here or that but this is dis root discrimination against our students and families and it's rooted in the system and we've got to figure out as a council it's not going to happen tonight but something that you know I ask each of you to brainstorm and and you know I'd like to make it a bigger discussion at an upcoming meeting um about what what are our Solutions what are our options um where do you you indivual council members think we should go as a as a overall Council because it's it's it's broken the doe does some things good but it ain't good enough and our kids are getting hurt on a daily basis I I just would like to say what you know one of the things I do as the chairperson of the education Community for National Action Network I am working with dayc carees as well as other leaders in there and in NAACP to try to figure out how how do we make this issue of special education and the lack of services not so much of when you have these conversations whether it's under this Administration under Adams or under Bill of Blasio Administration it doesn't matter who you put in that seat the systemic issues we're facing are really um it's just become common placed that this is what it is or we just don't have enough and I just think that's not true and it's unfair and so I think whatever we choose to do is having Solutions right you know going to the powers that be with here are the the the solutions right and so I'm trying to focus from a solution perspective versus going to continue to yell about a problem that has been systemic for so many years and so for the families that we've been working with who get the private services or get these these speech persons one of the complaints with the relative Services whether it be OT PT or speech is that Doe doesn't pay enough that some of the there are speech persons that are willing to do the services or OT persons but the process to get on a doe roster to become one or just to be paid is the problem so then how do we work on those things to say to doe I'm tired of you telling me Oh we know it's a problem we're working on it da D it's it's 10 years when when are you going to come up with a solution and then blaming it on the state right and watching in the CCS these meetings where you actually have doe people not giving a kid a service even though the doctor has written this child has autism this child needs services and they're like oh no he's typically developing like how do we hold those employees of that system accountable who just disenfranchise openly and they know it so I mean I don't know what the solution is all I'm thinking is coming up with Solutions and then asking and requesting whether that be state or federal to say you need to step in making enough noise to say this is not okay um Chicago did it they were able to get rid of mayo control I've met with some of their leaders and parent leaders who have worked so hard to get that even though the systems still have problem problems there's still some more control so I don't know how we do it but it's just now that they have the funding for the little the younger children is just throwing them in with the older kids and everybody's being disenfranchised D Lupe had her hand oh I'm sorry Lupe I didn't see you Lupe please and then thank you Dr Canton beckles um to yes to all of that and I threw in uh I threw it in a a couple times in the chat but Dr commissioner Dr Betty Rosa you know um issued a a statement in regards to the lack of our otpt and speech therapists um and how these contracts have been handled and so I think um although we may not have all the solutions and I'm very I always try to come from a solution oriented um space I think we work with many of us worked on the reag boldly imagining special education advisory Council but I think in sometimes and in this case we could share all of the data that we have received with the state um being that they're already looking into this and maybe or and or writing coupling it with a letter from our Council expressing the dire crisis that we are experiencing and what our families are experiencing um not just in our Public Schools via IEPs not being mandated or with related services but also on the iesp um aspect and they should be taking a look of how legal has been handling this because there are many reasons why in in like you said for the state or feds to even look into it next Tim oh okay it's working um yes but that that's the crazy part right like we've been seeing this this corruption for decades and it's you know having a 14-year-old who has been in special education you know ABA early intervention since a year and a half I've never seen that this level of just blatant like f few we're not doing it we know it's the law but we can't or we won't and that's why we're at now it's like nobody's trying to hide the fact that this shit's not happening it's happening but nobody it's like there's nothing you can do about it that's the feeling you know that's but that's not true and so you're absolutely 100% correct on the solution based approach but what kind of solution you know and I think it's time to take legal action to be honest but in the interim how the hell are we going to support our kids that need it and I think one thing just you know to mention to tack on to that like one solution I think that superintendent and principles really need to get on is professional development there's a lot of gaps that can be closed with professional development and the teachers are begging for it they don't have PD PD days built in where they are working on I APS they don't have it they don't have professional development for there's schools that don't know that you can have indirect sets so they're pulling kids out four times a week week those kids are missing four periods of instruction when they don't have to do that they're not pushing in for speech right that you can even push in for OT they're not doing any of these things because they don't they don't have that development strategy right so I think it's also management at the school level so I would love to figure out how we can start working on that piece you know because I think some superintendant are just as frustrated and they've got a lot of freaking School especially in D2 you mentioned right a lot of schools um yeah so what I was going to say was what we can do as a council which is what we have been doing I think when we entered in September I said something like this year I'm not interested in playing the same game I don't want to do an annual I've said this so it's on record I don't want to do an annual report that's a waste of time I would rather have an action document um I think that we need to continue pushing out surveys and I think that collecting data and if we're going to submit it to the state or whomever we decide to we need to collect data and we need to at some point have a strategy because there are so many issues in the spe in the special education space that we just cannot tackle at all so we need to sit down we need to come up with a strategy and we need to start collecting data to then at the end of the year produce something that is where my head is going um I've already said that we don't we don't need to have an i AP conference this year because last year still hasn't happen we need to turn that into an agenda for Action so let's start putting our heads together when do you want to by next month having a conversation on this Mark yeah I think we we give ourselves some time in the business meeting um for the November meeting because I think this is really the direction from my standpoint hearing from the members this is what we need to really focus on for the rest of our term is I mean this is the big deal right I mean this is what we all are here for is to help our families and our students and it's clear there are tens of thousands hundred you know who knows how many more students not getting what they're supposed to by federal law this is not like an option this is not optional this is mandated federal law and and you know where does it where does all come from my look the reality is federal government's still not fully funding idea I mean that's the first step right I mean that's step one two we've got the state government that's not fully funding it you look at 853s and 4410s you look at Foundation a it took till last year to finally get Foundation Aid at the level but then when they giveth Foundation Aid they still take it away by making the doe be the only School District in the country that has to pay for Charter School rent right and and then we won't even talk about the transition um funding which is hundreds of millions of dollars that only New York City is excluded from in the state of New York I mean so the state talks big but they're they not fully funding New York City either and then you've got obviously the cities there's there's false up and down and I think we need to spend some time individually thinking about where we see the gaps and then start the solution thought process as as Dr Kenton you know called out because it's where do we go as a council you know what is our Legacy going to be to help our kids and our families of New York City and I think this is a big deal and I appreciate everyone's discussion on this Tim I think that and then I'll stop after thank you and it is about Legacy I I like how you stated that right because that's what we're here for um it's not for us it's for the it's for the future it's for the kids but the chalkbeat article that came out right and this is something that I was talking to some of you about the discrepancies in the grouping of the students so you're looking at eth graders that are applying for high school you're looking at their gpas over their four core academic subjects from last year as seventh graders at the end of the year that determines what group they're in what tier they're in one through five according to grades right students would disabilities maybe 400 students out of 12,000 um were in group one so that's the top 15% students with disabilities were clumped to the bottom right always anchored to the bottom the biggest concentrated concentration of students with disabilities were in group five group five this is not because our students can't don't want to Excel or perform right and aren't engaged and aren't curious and want to learn it's because they're not supported like so much of that is a lack of support So if you want evidence yeah surveys 100% this is like the biggest survey there is I mean just look at it and it's a you go back to lack of services lack of services lack of services IEP is not being man ated sets not being provided wrong wrong wrong placement no bus there's your data right okay any other comments we're at the last we're at the last topic so open it up all right we have a any other comments or we have a motion to adjourn motion Jour then second all in favor post and thank you everybody have a good night good night Patricia if you're still