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Video-1: https://vimeo.com/1201804112

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Thank you, panel member Hannah Jones, for joining us. We are going to go ahead and get started now. Thank you all for your patience. Step away. On the screen we have our agenda for the evening, but I'm going to switch it over to our norms and behaviors. So for the utilization committee, our agreed upon norms and behaviors are one mic, one screen. We try our best not to talk over each other. All comments go to the committee, not to any members of the public. Our committee is generally very good about not attacking each other, as in within the committee, but we just keep this

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as good practice. Public comment is limited to the agenda. So we will only be discussing items on the agenda unless the chair, myself, decides we're going to talk about something else. No DOE presentations, no DOE rebuttals. We're not here to attack the DOE, we're not here to defend the DOE, and ultimately we are not here to speak for the DOE. That's unfair and inappropriate. And then lastly, first we listen, and then we respond. Okay, I'm going to switch us back to our agenda and we can get started for the evening. So this month we have two school utilization proposals

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for consideration at the PEP. The first on here is the proposed re-siting and co-location of Community Roots Charter School into a school building that already has the Susan S. McKinney Secondary School for the Arts and PSK 369, which is a D75 site. If we can, I'd like to do the other SUP before this one, just because it seems a bit simpler. This is the proposed re-siting of grades four and five of PS 11 to Building

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523, which my understanding is that then the entire school will be in one building instead of fourth and fifth grade being in a separate space. And I know that CEC 13 President McKnight is not on with us yet, but, Mr. Green, if you can speak to this, would you be willing to? Sure. Thank you. And I'm the first vice president. Oh, thank you. So which one of the proposals do you want, because they're both in our district? Yeah. I think first we will do the PS 11, the Pervis JB Hand School.

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Okay. Well, I just want to stand corrected. I just heard something about that they want to put the whole school in that building. Or are they just moving fourth and fifth? Because that was the original proposal. I think they're just moving the fourth and fifth. That's what I would like to understand is does them moving the fourth and the fifth grade mean that the school, so K through three are in one space and four and five are moving into a different space? Is that... Correct. Okay. The fourth and fifth grade is moving into a building which

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used to be Queens of All Saints. They're going to retrofit the building to house the fourth and fifth grade in there because PS 11 is overcrowded. And to come into with the small class size requirement, they won't have any room in there. They're already over capacity right now in the regular school building at PS 11. So it was a proposal that they move their fourth and fifth grade to allow space

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in the PS 11 to this new building, which is approximately one, two, about three blocks away from the school. And we are all in favor on the CEC of that move. Okay. So the school is so over capacity that they're moving two of the grades versus enrolling students elsewhere. Are there no other options in the area? For the purpose of the school utilization conversation and enrollment conversation, it seems like the

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easier route would've been controlling the enrollment and having the students go elsewhere for K to five instead of splitting up the school in between two buildings. But the community- Right ... is on board with this. Yes. The community is now on board because we done exhaust all the other options, and this was one of the options that PS 11, SoT had talked to the superintendent, talked to it. So we were very much in favor of them coming because they needed room, and other schools that we were looking at did

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not have the capacity to hold the whole fourth and fifth grade. And DOE did agree to signing a lease for this building From the Catholic Diocese, and that we agreed with that. So hopefully, with y'all approval, that this will move forward, and that we will relieve some of the capacity in PS 11 and give the younger grades back because they had to take away their art room, their music room.

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And it was very much overcrowded, like some of our schools in our district. So we're definitely in favor of this. Okay, awesome. Part of our intention in talking to the CEC presidents here during this time is for us to understand what has gone right in conversations with district planning and with the Office of School Facilities. In prior conversations we've had, there have been very specific examples, like the two specific folks here from DOE, Yael and Rebecca, would meet

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with the president and other CEC members of a specific CEC on a weekly basis coming up to an SUP. So that was noted to us as something that was extremely helpful in terms of getting the communication right from the very beginning with the community. Do you have any examples like that that you can share with us? Well, this is something that gave birth out of the rezoning of PS 8 and 307. And I think I got nothing but praises about this because

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this is something that we asked for a long time, that the community be engaged in this process at all steps and all levels. And I think I have nothing really to say about with this proposal here with PS 11. I think it's the collaboration of the superintendent, district planning, the CEC, the SLT for PS 11. It was a combined effort in finding this place, and like I said before, we're 100% behind this

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proposal here and hope that y'all will definitely approve it. As far as examples, we have the Arts and Letters united with 305. That's another example of them collaborating. And we talked to the schools, we talked to the community, and we came up with a proposal of moving Arts and Letters from where they were at PS 20 over to And it came in with a collaborative with the community and made it

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sure that the community was allowed to come into the school. We brought a K through 8 program into that school. So that's something that we collaborate with the CEC and the school community of both schools and the community. So we do have examples of working together and making sure that we try to get it as right as possible. And then bringing school construction and

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district planning into the mix so that they can explain to us all the technical pieces that go into when we start moving schools around, so it's the less burden on our students. Because the one thing we want to make sure we're about the students, and the less stress that we can put on our students when these moves are made is better for them. Absolutely. I'm very happy to hear that you had collaboration also with SCA. They get a bad rap a lot of the time, so I really appreciate hearing when they

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are getting it right. Yeah. Thank you for that. You're welcome. Okay. If we can now, let's move to the resiting of Community Roots Charter School from 67 and 287 to building 265. I know that Faraji has some information that you'd like to share about this. You can share, Faraji, when you get here. But if you can, Mr. Green, would you mind walking us through the process for this as well? Okay.

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Well, it started off with Ally Development and the EFC decided and talked with us. We had some community building and community dialogue along with them to talk about the whole project, because Ally Development bought the whole block. At first, there was a bumpy road with that, to be very honest. We didn't know what was going on. It was confused with 240

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Nassau because they kept talking about this was the Boys Club, which is next door to the school. And for a while, the community was confused with it We as the CEC went out there, got everybody together, we heard who these people were, we talked to the superintendent, and eventually it came to light that they want to tear down the 287. They want to build a new school in that place, which is approximately, they're talking about building a new facility there for a 700-seat

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school sometime, I think, roughly around 2030, 2031, that the school will be opening. With Community Roots, they have two locations in there, which are practically two blocks apart, a block and a half apart. They have their elementary school in PS Yeah. And they have their middle school part in 287. They've been asking us for years,

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because this was a brainchild at one time when they wanted to expand in 67 to a K through eight. And we were very much opposed to that when they wanted to expand in 67, because that would not give the 67 any room of growing. It would basically push them out. And that's where the idea came up for them to move over into 287, because we told them they could replace Kalira Jabon, which had

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moved out of the top part of 287. Now, moving forward, this is something that they've been asking for Community Roots, is going into a building and be there completely. We talked about it. We collaborated. We talked to school district planning. We talked to school facility, and we said 265 had enough space because that was where Success Academy used to be, and they moved into District 16. After that, we said, "Well, this would be a perfect fit for them. They will move into the building,

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and they will be all together. Their whole school, K through eight, will be in that one building." Now, it's a very beautiful building. It has a lot of things with arts and theater, and they redid the auditorium, and all its acoustics in that auditorium. So this would be a perfect fit for them to go in there. Now, what we've been hearing rumors, and I don't know how true they are, we're still investigating them,

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is that Community Roots really don't want to go there. They want to go back to 287 when the new building is built. Like I said before with PS 11, we do not want to keep moving childrens around. That's trauma to those young minds. We want to make one move and one move only, and that's the 265 for the whole entire Community Roots. Now, Community Roots is one of

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our many charter schools that is very popular. And what we wanted to make sure is that when they move to 265, that it'll be one move and that'll be the only move, not keep bouncing back and forth and splitting them up. My understanding, what the proposal is supposed to be like is that the K through five, which is located in 67, would move into the 265's building, followed by

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the six through eight the following year. Now, I don't know if that changed because we heard a couple of moves that they were going to follow it, that they wanted to move everybody into 265, which I would suggest that the whole move is done in one shot, so that both schools can get inundated with the school- Yeah ... and then there's no trauma to our kids, that they all know each other, and they fit right in, so that

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they'll get this whole thing, the seating plan, classrooms, they can set them up. And that we don't have to be looking at down the line to do another move for Community Roots. What I'm actually hearing that a lot of this is dealing with a parking lot. Because originally, Community Roots in 67, there's a playground, which is a playground that they eventually converted

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with Community Roots. They converted it to a parking lot. That parking lot will no longer have access to it in Community Roots. They would have to park on the street like all the other staff from other DOE schools And that playground will now be converted back to a playground and not a parking lot. While the two schools were in there in 287 and 67, parents and staff were parking in that

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parking lot. And I think what I've been hearing is the big thing about a parking lot. They don't want to lose the parking lot. Well, you don't have access. One of the things that we said with the CEC, they're not having access to that parking lot because we're going to give it back to the students of 67. It was something that got started back in the days, and we couldn't really do anything about it. But now that we are moving community routes, we're going to change that around. But I'm in favor of the move. Only thing I

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would suggest, that the move be made with both entities, the K through five and the six through eight, all at one time next year. Yeah. The six through eight is moving first, and then the following year, the K through five will be moving in. Right. And I agree with you- Yeah ... 100%. Yeah. I couldn't remember which one it was. I thought it was the K through five was moving first, but I stand corrected. But we are excited for that move, and I've been doing this for over 20 years on the CEC, and I try to

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minimize trauma to students. We are about students. They are in the forefront of anything that we do. It's about students thriving, and I think that we do not want to make it more stressful for them. So, if they move the six through eight first, it's fine. But my suggestion, it would be to move them all in there one time and let them get inundated in the school. But for whatever reason it is, is that they want to move the middle school

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first because that building is going to be moved out. Because I'm not too sure where we're going to place the students and the staff from 287, but my understanding that they will be moved to the campus of PS 67 right now. And hopefully this be a nice smooth transition so everybody is not really

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tooken out of place for a very short period of time, and that the staff can get back in there and teaching and learning from community routes at So, hopefully we'll get this done very smoothly. And that's my forte on it, is it- I agree. And there's something to be said about doing it piecemeal, right? Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast. And sometimes the best way to do things is legitimately one at a time. Were there any concerns outside of what was shared at the joint public hearing, that you've either heard at CEC meetings or just in the community about putting

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essentially five-year-olds in the same building as 18-year-olds? And I'm not talking about safety in terms of I think the 18-year-olds are going to do anything to them. I just think that space-wise, our pre-K, K, and first graders have to be on the first floor. So what is that going to do to the rest? And I have the bump here, but are parents concerned about what that looks like day to day? Or have they been- Well- ... swayed by administration? Well, I heard a few rumors with that. But I believe when

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Success Academy was in that building, they had no problems. The administrators were working together. And I really be honest, I think if the administrators are working together, they can overcome any challenges. As far as how it is going to be lined up, we're still in the working phase of talking with district planning on how that's going to look. But I believe with the building, when Success Academy had

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their K through five in there, there was separation. There was very minimal of the kids were moving around and mixing up with the high schoolers. And to be also sure that there's a very small population of high schoolers in Dr. McKinney High School. Mm-hmm. The most that we would see is the D75 school, because I believe they're moving in there with them also. Yeah. Yeah. That would be about the only,

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what I would say any kind of interchanging or intermingling might be is between the D75. And I believe between those three administrators in there- That I know very well with Community Roots, the D75 administration, and the McKinney's administration. They can work that out. It's just the fact is, is that what I normally see in moves like this or moves of any sort of when they co-locate,

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is that this is the part that I get a little upset sometimes with district planning, is that they come in with predetermined ideas and it's like, "Oh, well, this is the way it's got to be." And they don't let the administrations and the community really work those things out. That's the reason why I said if they did the sweep of the whole K through 8 in there, everybody could see what all the rooming is. They get to see

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how it is actually going to look. And then I think that this would be a great opportunity for Community Roots to expand with their K through 8, and that they will definitely get the benefits of what the school offers. Like I said, the school is a beautiful school. It has a band room. It has a rebuilt auditorium. It's a lot of stuff that is in that building that they can take full advantage

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of. My thing is, is that the administrations have to work together, and that district planning has to come with a clear-cut idea of what they're planning on doing, what rooms are going to be assigned to Community Roots, which rooms are going to be assigned to the D75, what rooms are going to be assigned to the high school. I think that will ease up some of the tension, especially when they start talking about little kids being in there

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with big adults. We've been hearing that for a long time. One of the things is, is that school used to be a 6 through 12 school, and back in the days, our kids weren't as big as they are now, because a lot of our elementary school kids are really big. There were small middle schoolers in there with the high schoolers, and it worked fine. So I think it's just the fact that they have to really, really sit down. I think the biggest piece that

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district planning has to do is making sure that we do a walkthrough of the building and that the CEC and Community Roots High School and District 75 do a walkthrough of the building and see where these rooms that they're assigning. Because I think if we do it blindly, it may be a room that might be on the high school side of the building that should not be. Any other questions? No, I really love that last bit. Including the CEC in the drafting, or at least in the review of the building utilization plan or the

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BUF, I think could be extremely useful, especially if there are parents that join a CEC meeting, let's say in November, long after this decision has been made. If the CEC has attended the BUF meetings or they have been given the opportunity to review the BUF, they can answer those questions pretty directly. So I think that that is fantastic. Yeah, you're welcome. I've been writing the entire time you were talking. Okay. Does anybody else have any questions for First Vice President Mr. Green from CEC 13? I don't have a question, but I would say I understand the part

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where he was talking about the trauma that the students would get if they're moved around. I think that was a very valid point. Noah, since you're here- Uh-huh ... can I ask you a question? Do you know if there is anything that has been offered previously to students who've had, I'm thinking of Westside, when they had a pretty traumatic change. Was there anything that we offered to the students in terms of wraparound services? Like a therapist came for the day to talk to them and offered 30 to 45 minutes. Is that a thing? Is that possible? We can do that. Yeah?

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Very easily, yeah. Love that. Okay. So I just asked Noah, who's our resident expert on everything here at PEP, whether or not it is possible for us to offer any additional or extended or wraparound services. None of those are the actual terms for it. But to have either a guidance counselor or a therapist come in and talk to the students who are potentially moving schools or having their school truncated or having their school co-located. And the answer is yes, that that is something that we can do. So that is, I think, maybe something that we should explore,

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especially when we have these more contentious school utilization proposals like the one in Mr. Gudron's district or Westside High School previously. Well, one thing that we do pride ourselves in District 13, we are more proactive around things than reactive. I think that it's less stressful on our students and our district, even though some things we just can't help because

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we can't just foresee. And like I tell everybody, my crystal ball is not working right now. I can't foresee in the future what things are. But if we're willing to always come together and talk things out, we can overcome any of these challenges that are in our district. I love that conversation, Ben. I haven't seen you in a minute, but it's nice to talk now. How you doing, Shirley? I'm good, yeah. It's true because those conversations

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really need to happen, right? The good, the bad, and the ugly. It's very important when schools are transparent and active. Your District 13 is an example of that, 16, 17, of actually engaging the communities, saying what it is, and talk about the pros and cons, the grows and glows of the communities is very important. This will help minimize, not only the children's trauma, but the community as a whole, the school community and the community that the building

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resides in. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Anybody else have anything that they'd like to share or ask before we move on to the next agenda item? Farajii, is there anything you want to share about either of these SUPs? No, I think it was important to let the CEC first license to speak and give perspective and insight in terms of what's going on there. I just hope that in terms of the proactive approach, that we do right by the communities at large, and I think I already made that point the last briefing.

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Okay. Thank you for joining us, Mr. Green. You are welcome to stay. We're going to move on to discuss Mr. Gidron's resolution, the resolution to reconsider the closure of PS 394 and commission a public review. Okay. Well, thank you for inviting me. Thank you. And y'all have a wonderful evening. Thank you. I think I have this resolution still here, so if I do... Please add him. Hi, Chair Faulkner. Thank you for joining us. Hi. Apologies for being late. No worries. Hi, Chair Faulkner. Hello, everyone. We are going to discuss Leon's resolution.

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I'm just looking for it to pull it up on screen. While I'm doing that, Leon, do you want to talk us through next steps and what it is that you want to do moving forward with this? Yes, thank you. I want to start off by saying, I believe at the last meeting, I think I did a poor job with explaining what exactly the community wants, and I think people thought that I was saying that the community wanted this reading program abolished, which is not the case. This community strongly advocates that it wants

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a co-location. The school has the adequate space, and we all feel that if CBLA became a program and 394 was the hub, it would benefit everybody and not just a specific group. This community feels bad that this... I don't want to say the wrong thing, but basically, this light's been cast over the school as far as saying that it's under-enrolled and academically is not

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doing well, and I don't think anyone's shining a light on that. 394-- One second. Let me get my notes. That at one point this school was on a TSI list, and usually it takes a school two years to come off that list. It took 394 one year to come off that list The school still has a demand in ELA and math. Since 2023, the school has improved in both of those subjects, statewide test scores,

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by double digits. In the school year 2023, 2024, the school is at 19% in ELA and 7% in math. And as of last year, it increased to 47% in ELA and 40% in math, which shows that the school is on a upward trajectory. And before the beginning of this school year, in which the phase-out was implemented, the school had over 200 students.

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And this school believes had the phase-out not started this year, it would've built upon that. In the community every day, I'll be approached because everybody says the same thing. They feel like, "Why does one school have to come into a community and get rid of another when both schools could help each other?" What hurts 394 too is that since CBLAs came into the building, 394 has been like an assistant to CBLA.

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We help CBLA with everything, in which I don't want to give names, but there are a handful of staff members that I have a rapport with from CBLA that actually feel the same way, that they advocate for co-location as well. But I feel that they're scared to publicly say these things in fear of losing their job or retaliation. But there is a strong push within the building for co-location. And I think 394 is doing a remarkable job for a school that's phasing

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out with backing up its stance for co-location. The school is an asset to the community, not a detriment to the community, and I think the data backs that up. I know CBLA, I know everybody in here knows reading is a very important subject for young kids. But we all feel that should pertain to everyone, not a selective group. 394 has earned the right to reap the benefits of CBLA as well and stay within their building.

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Yeah, Shirley. Yeah. So I apologize. I was unable to listen to the entire meeting, the last committee meeting, because I was in an in-person event. But I can't, with good conscience, support this resolution because I did my homework even before this resolution even came to existence when the association had emailed us regarding certain things. So I did my homework, I got all the data, I talked to different community members. So first, the state removed the school from

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TSI because it's slated to be phased out. So that automatically took them off of TSI. That's why they are no longer there. Then looking at the data of the state exams, and I'm talking specifically with the state exam, the same rate of improvement is the same rate of people opting out. So you have a lot less students taking the state exam. So that will affect the state scores of improving, but it's the same rate.

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If you look at the rate differential, the rates improve by 15%, but you have 15% more people opting out from taking that state exam. So you've got to look at that data in that respect as well. And there was a reason why this was-- it was actually slated to just close completely and not be phased out. And I think with respect to the community and the emotions and the feelings, so it was like this phase it out instead of closing it directly. But

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using the state as an example, the reason it's off is because it's stated to be phased out and closed. So therefore, it no longer had to be rated by New York State. And that's why it doesn't say it's in good standing. They're just not on the TSI list anymore. To respond. Can I respond? Not disrespectfully. No. Yeah, of course. As far as the TSI that you're speaking of, the school is rated in good standing. We was not taken off TSI because we're phasing

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out. That's inaccurate. We have- ... paperwork to prove that. And as far as the state scores, that was brought to my attention before, and I presented the data to the panel. There was not a large amount of students from 394 that did not take the state exams. That is inaccurate. Oh. The data came straight from DOE. Yeah, and I have the same data. It came straight from the Department of Education. If I believe, 394 had nine students that didn't take the state exams, and if you look at District 17, there was

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schools that had a large amount of kids that did not take the state exams. 394 is not one of those schools. I can re-present the data from DOE back to the panel if need be. If nine students opted out, and let's say there were only 20 students in that grade or 20 students that were taking that test, in terms of the ratio, that is half. No. Let me see if I have the data. I think it was... One second. Okay. While you do that, Chair, please. Sure. I think this has been a

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long sort of conversation that's taken place over a couple of years now. First, I'm really glad that we're not seeing this as a competition between the reading program and 394, and that the two programs can coexist. If you go back to the original proposal to close 394, and I think what's beginning to be obvious is that when it comes to schools in poor communities, there kind of seems to be a different standard. Mm-hmm. That we begin to throw all these stats, and that in other communities, we don't apply those same kinds of principles.

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And I think we have to begin to rethink what we do and how we close buildings and what constitutes support. I think one of the reasons that the panel paused the whole closure, because when this was originally presented, we were told that everybody supported this, the community- Yeah ... everybody was in love with it, and it turned out that was inaccurate. And as you began to dig deeper, you started to say, "Well, what support is given to schools that do have difficulty? In poor communities, the solution is to close the school." In other communities, there may be other programs or find

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ways of providing support to keep that school functioning and open. And so I think this opens up a bigger conversation about how we proceed with closing schools in communities, and how we begin. Maybe we ought to have some kind of an early alert when schools are beginning to face difficulty, and that there ought to be some kind of a plan in terms of how we move forward. That's partly why this is an important conversation, and that's why this resolution is important, because we need to, as a panel, take a position and be very clear

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that we are going to support schools and that the first solution when a school is in difficulty-- And there's some things that can be said, which I'll share, not publicly, that can be said about what went down in terms of how this decision to close 394 was made. Yeah. And when I was made aware of it, I abstained on the vote because I just felt that this was wrong. This was not the way that we support schools and communities. And so, I understand people may have different point of view. The resolution will come up next month, and we'll have a

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chance to have this discussion and then cast a vote. The panel will then get a chance to cast a vote. We'll take all of this information and we'll put it out publicly, put it on the table, and we'll get a chance to really dissect it and take a look at it. Doesn't the committee have to vote first? No. That is an error. No, it does not. We don't have a system where the committee reviews resolutions before they come to the panel. No. We haven't ever done that. We don't even do that with contracts. Contracts is different. It's not different. It's a committee. And if- Well, so this committee is not supporting the resolution, then. It's just- And the committee can make that...

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Well, first of all, I think- That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. So the resolution comes to the PEP, it's not going to have to have the support of this committee. No. The committee can make a recommendation. Mm-hmm. And I think we would have to talk offline as to how that would happen, but the committee could make a recommendation, and that recommendation would have to be from panel members on the committee. Yeah. I have the data here for ELA. One second. Also up on screen- Well- ... is the original SUP for the closure, and

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so this was December 2024. This is the original proposal to close 394, and then we brought it back the end of May. And this is when it is labeled a phase out. Sorry. Go ahead, Leon. I just wanted to explain a few things. Yeah. For ELA, 79 students was qualified to take the test, 67 took it Yeah, we're not seeing that. We're not seeing your screen Oh, I don't know how to share. I'm sorry. Well, we also shouldn't put that kind of sensitive data up

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on screen. Mm-hmm. This is recorded, and this is a public meeting. I think talking about the data is fine, but I don't think displaying it is a good idea. Yeah. 79 was eligible to take it, 67 took it. That was in ELE. In math, 82 students was eligible to take it, 66 took it. And within District 17, 394 has the highest test scores in science at 74%. I think that is important to be included in the resolution. That's important information. But I agree with Chair Faulkner.

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I think at this point, the best thing to do is move forward with the next step of presenting it to the panel. And if there are individual members of the panel, like Chair Faulkner said, who are members of the committee who would like to either sign on to it in support, I think we can do that as well. Yeah. So the data I have, 2025, 2026 screening proficiency in the fall, the one that has the different categories, exceeding, meeting, and below. So the below, or significantly below, 50% for reading in the fall,

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36.75% in the winter. Fall math, 39.5, and in the winter, 37.4%. So that's what I'm saying with the data. And this I got directly from DOE. Mm-hmm. But you do know when you look up data in DOE, sometimes that's from the previous year. I just read it's '25 to '26. Yeah, because I have the data from last year's state exams. And- I think you guys are also talking about different- Yeah, we might be ... measurements, it seems like.

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We might be. Might be. Yes. I know from last year's state exams in ELE, we had, ELE and both math, we're in 40% or above. And that's a significant increase from 2023 up until last year. So I have, yeah, I have one chart. And that's why the school was taken off the TSR. It wasn't about a phase-out. It was that the school has shown improvement, and the school is now slated as in good standing. I have the data from 2015 all the way to Yeah, but listen to what we're doing.

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But it doesn't matter at this point. Yeah. I'm just saying that- Yeah, but- ... to articulate, because as I said, other people in that community, including CECs, are not on that same page about being co-located. Right. So there's a difference of community members of having a difference of opinions of the same school. Not everybody's on board of stopping the process of phasing out. That's what I'm saying. Yes. And look at- I agree with you, and I think that further backs up

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the community stance because if you remember, December 18th of 2024, the CEC presented its resolution and proposal to the panel and gave you guys the impression that this community was on board with CBLE coming into 394. In which the community came out that day and outspoke against that proposal, and which is why the panel did something it's never done, which was table the vote for that night. So there's always been a contrast between what the CEC is

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saying and what the community is saying. That always existed. And I should point out that we have elected officials who've actually signed letters in support. I think the council member- Yeah ... actually wrote a letter in support, and I would think he represents the community. But I think again, this is one of the things that we don't want to engage in, where I think the questions are, moving beyond 394 and moving forward, what do we do when schools are presented and we get all of these stats and all of these numbers, and are we looking at, well,

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when did these things start? What support was provided to that school? How are we working to make sure that these schools are able to survive? And that, again, the immediate reaction seems to be that when it comes to schools in poor communities, we simply say, "Well, the easiest thing is closed." When this came before the panel originally, we were told, "Done deal. Everybody loves it. It's all good." And I actually thought the parents from 394 were there for the shindig. That was the night of the shindig. Yeah. And then wow, there's a whole community of folks coming for the shindig, and only to discover that it was really a community

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saying, "Hey, we're not in favor of this." So we were given misinformation. Because I was told repeatedly, repeated it in the press, "Everybody loves this, everybody's in love with it," and that actually wasn't true. And it just seems that we repeat that pattern in poor communities where we don't look to figure out... The response isn't, "How do we save the school and make this school better and work?" The response is, "It's a problem, let's close it." Mm-hmm. And that's wrong. And I learned something. I think this past couple of months when we went through the

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District 3 and District 2 proposals, I learned a lot. I watched that and I said, "These schools are being saved." And that's the right thing to do. I think it's a good thing to do. But bottom line is these schools in these other communities are saved And we're finding ways that we're going to help these schools, as opposed to immediately moving to the... I even heard the discussion where there were schools that have low numbers, that I actually began to hear arguments with people saying, "Yeah, I know it's below the number where we would normally close a school, but there's a benefit to a smaller institution."

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And so I think this may open up the broader conversation about how we look at school closings and what schools get closed and what schools should we support. And I've talked to other administrators, and they actually share this point of view. I've talked to some superintendents who actually have shared with me, "Yeah, we actually rethink." That our immediate reaction is, it's a problem, get rid of it. Now, I might have been some of that in 394. It's a problem, let's just get rid of it. No, I don't know if anybody approach it that way, but

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none of our proposals should be approached in that manner. And I'm speaking as a PEP member. I'm not talking about DOE or anything. I'm glad you feel that way. I'm glad. I'm very happy to hear that. Because I never approach situations in that manner. But I just want to say for the record that I recognize Community Education Councils as a representation of the community. So you can't also dismiss their opinions as well. I didn't dismiss it. I didn't say you. I'm making a statement, Greg. Yeah, I'm not dismissing it, yeah. I'm not saying you, Greg. I'm just- Okay ... making a statement. Yeah. I'm just saying because we can't have it two ways.

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They either represent, and their voice matters as well, and they are representative of their school communities, and we cannot dismiss their views on subject matters as well. Right? Because they should know their communities, which we know that certain communities are more engaged and more transparent. And I think it also goes back to having those real conversations at the school level. Being transparent of what is actually happening and the condition

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of the schools, which is supposed to have been at the school leadership team. If those conversations are not happening, that school community is not going to know and be taken off guard. Mm-hmm. And they should be part of the conversations of not only the good stuff that's happening and the good events that's happening, but also- Mm-hmm ... if there's enrollment declining, if there's issues with the grades, and you're not seeing academic achievement of improvement in academic achievement. They are supposed to be part of the conversations to attack those root causes if

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it's within the school's capability. Because if people are moving out of the area, that's a larger society issue and not the community school. You understand what I'm saying? So I just want to put it out there. Ms. Shirley, I want to say this. I appreciate all the work that you do on the panel. I always speak highly of you. I'm not going to say one of. I tell Greg this all the time. I think this is the best version of the panel in its history, and I appreciate each and every last one of the members.

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But what I need you to understand is that I live in this community, and I'm not here to down talk anybody, but I'm telling you factually, there's a disconnect with, I don't want to say District 17, but there's a disconnect with this school, 394, and the CEC. In fact, to be quite honest with you, the only time 394 has ever seen the CEC president is when she enters the school with the

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superintendent when this proposal came about. She does not come to the school. She don't come to the community to ask community anything. And I'm not trying to shame her. I'm just being transparent with you and honest. We've invited the panel to the school numerous occasions just to prove our statements. We're not out here advocating to save us because we just want to be saved. We worked our tails off, and we're working our tails off still. We just feel slated because, like I told you before,

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the CEC brought this proposal to the panel and stated this is what the community wanted. And we made it our duty to show up that night to let it be known we never supported this proposal. We always stated we believe in the reading program, but we want to benefit from it as well. We always advocated for a co-location, but the CEC gave misinformation. I heard you. You always are entitled to how you feel.

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I will always encourage to hear parent voices because everybody's not going to see and approach and agree. So that's why when everybody is in agreement, it's a really great thing. Right? So I always encourage. And I'm not saying that your information or that you shouldn't advocate or you shouldn't feel the way you should. I'm just saying that it's not everybody feels the same way. We have to acknowledge that. And maybe it should have been more acknowledged or more emphasized. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but I'm not saying that

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you shouldn't advocate and do what y'all feel needs to do to be done. I'm just saying that speaking to other individuals, and I'm not talking about just CEC, right? I'm not talking about just the CECs. And administrators, they don't all agree As that it should not be phased out. That's all I'm saying, right? And everybody has their own opinions or feelings about this. So we, as a panel, even the Department of Education, is supposed to take in consideration

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of and look at everybody's views. So I am not saying that you shouldn't not do it, it's just that at this point in time, based on from my conversations and from what I've seen. But I am listening to you, and I will re-look at everything again in regards to the proposal that was passed earlier before. Just also keep in mind, and I apologize, let's keep in mind, one of the things we've been told is that we need to really engage and listen to parents and the parent voice, and that we really need to put that front and

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center. Are there any CEC members from 394? That community? Not on at the moment. Okay. Can you text Erica Kendall and see if she can-- Panel member Hannah Jones is going to text the president- Yeah ... of CEC 17 to see if she can join us. So, the question then is that as these questions come up, do we have a responsibility to listen to the local parents, to listen to the parent voices? During the whole conversation around District 2 and District 3, I actually think, my understanding was that the

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CEC locally was in favor of the move. There was some strong support there. But I really felt we needed to listen locally to parents because I would go to parent meetings, and the parents overwhelmingly had a different point of view. And so I think it's important that those are opinions that we ought to hear. But I think that the decision we have to make is, do we weigh that against when you have a community of parents and a community is saying, "This is not something that we feel is better." When schools close, it affects the entire community.

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So I think that's why I'm excited. This is going to be an important conversation for us to really come away with a philosophy in terms of how we look at opening and closing and the whole question of school utilization. This is going to be an important topic over the next month for us to really dig into. And who do we pay attention to? So far, all the external forces outside of the local school, should that be the dominant decider? Or should it be what the parents and the surrounding community who are going to be most impacted, what is

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their point of view and how do they feel? And I think that's the question that we got to decide. Well, I feel that you're supposed to engage everybody. That's why it's public, right? You're supposed to be engaging everybody and we're supposed to listen and hear, listen and read, because some people send written comments to everybody, regardless who has an impact of this thing. I don't think one set of voices should outweigh the other, honestly. Right. Using our knowledge as per the process, and that's the whole point of trying to improve the school utilization

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process. We are hoping that when the Department of Education proposes something, that they are truly engaging the public, the community at large, and getting back feedback on how to address a certain situation instead of dictating, "This is how we're addressing XYZ." And I think if we fix that from the beginning, it will make a process and communities feel heard, and listen and not be a check mark. And right now, I think the feeling

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is- Yeah ... they're being a check mark. Okay, we engage according to their definition, which we don't know what the definition is. Engagement has to be defined and measured by that criteria that they define engagement and what we feel that engagement should entail as a community. I think you said something really important because there are going to be a lot of voices, and yes, we ought to listen to all the voices. But when there are a lot of voices, the voice that I'm going to really lean towards, and in some cases, it might be the right thing to do and you're going to disappoint. Listening doesn't mean agreement.

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But the voice that I'm going to listen to the most carefully is the voice of the local parent. 100%. And that means that it could be the superintendent of the CEC. It could be any of those groups. Those are additional voices and additional opinion. All of the visits that I made during District 2 and District 3's conversations, were to sit with parents and talk to parents. And I found that, for me, and there'd be different philosophies in terms of how we're going to do this, but for me, I think we always have to give an extra added

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weight to the opinion that parents have because parents only have one opportunity, very often, to talk to us or to meet with us. And other groups have other opportunities. So I'm always going to lean towards where the parents stand and want to know that. I think that's very important for us. Chair Faulkner- Huh? This is Farad. Yeah, Farad. I agree with Chair Faulkner to an extent. And the reason why I say to an extent is because not every parent that speaks out is informed as-- Not every parent that lives in a high poverty index Is

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given the level of resources and information as those who live in affluent communities. So when you have a CEC who basically does not work for the DOE, right? A CEC that comes in to inform parents about prioritizing student access, to essential resource over the adult institutional needs. When they're providing that level of information and the parent body, in a sense,

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look at them as the adversaries, then the breakdown comes into how are these parents, how are these parents underserved? The CECs from my experience, have always represented parents and never the DOE. Now, I understand what Leon is saying because I too have been on the other side of that. I have gotten a chance to really look at this holistically. And any time you see a school that is under-enrolled, what I look for, in a sense, is I'm looking

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at not just the under-enrollment, but I'm also looking at the leadership. So let's say, for instance, the school stays open and even though it's out of the CSI process and the kids are, um, performing on state tests, I have to say this fact. State test is not indicative-- It does not inform what is going on in the classroom. Now, you can say, for instance, you're now putting these children in honors math, they're now in honors English. Well, that's great for the parents for that time, but what

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happens when that child graduates to a more competitive setting? Where do they really measure up in terms of their academics? And I'm kind of giving you all a prelude to my experience in being in District 13 and also dealing with having my child enrolled in that particular setting. This goes for any student that is in a majority Black neighborhood that, in a sense, where you have schools that on the surface look

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like they're doing well, but on the broad scale are not performing at all. They're not college-ready. Can we honestly say that if this school remains in existence, that the resources and access will be available to these students that will prepare them, to be college-ready? And if the answer is yes, then you have to also ask yourself another moral question. Are you really doing the work of integration? Are you really doing the work of integration? Are you really doing the moral

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work in servicing these children? And so like I said, I had a real come-to-Jesus moment, to really think about this stuff and really read. And believe me, I read a lot. I can't help it. Putting children and students, and I said this before, you have to think about what the adults need institutionally versus what the students need. And we have individuals who do this, look at the data. The data don't really express the true nature of what type of instruction is happening in the classroom.

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You have to be in the classroom to experience that. You have to be in a classroom to experience what it's like for your child to make straight A's in a Title I school, but go into a competitive setting to only find out that they never had the skills that they came in school with. That in itself is segregation. That in itself is racist. Not keeping a school open for the sake of trying to do justice for Black parents who have not been given the proper information

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about advocating for their children academically. That is racist. Not keeping a school open for the sake of the argument of just the community. The community first has to know what they need. You have to inform them of their power to this institution, this public institution. And we're not doing the public good if we leave a school in existence that's under-enrolled. Bert, doesn't matter if they were on CSI and they came off one year. Doesn't matter. What matters is, are

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these children ready? Are they college-ready? Can we say morally that these children are ready for college, that they're getting the resources and the attentiveness and all of the things that all of these other schools are getting? Are we really doing the moral work for these students? Not for what we think is good for us in our community. I'm worried about whether or not these Black kids are going to be ready to go to the Harvards,

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ready to go to the Howards, and go into the HBCUs. Howard's not accepting children that make Bs in our school. If you didn't notice, Xavier University graduates more Black doctors than any other university, and that's because these children are coming from competitive spaces And I refuse, I refuse, as a PEP member, I refuse to be a person who researches this stuff, who studies it. And then also, not only do I study it, I'm in it. I'm in it. We put our child in it. Elementary school,

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middle school, we were in it. And the fact that I'm bringing this up is because there needs to be something. You need to dig a little bit deeper than the surface of the numbers and the test scores and look at the situation at hand. If you measure these students up, will they be able to be college ready and ready to go out there and be critical thinkers? Do they have the executive functioning skills to be able to go out there and compete? And I have to tell you, the

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answer is no. And I refuse anything other than really looking at this situation, whether or not if the school stays in existence with low enrollment, if we are truly doing integration work. I agree with you, Farajii. Um- He's put it more elegant than I did, but there's also a financial piece to it. In order to get the high quality education, right now, as long as fair student funding is by per student, low enrollment, you're not going to get the

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funding to support and sustain the stability of a rigorous academic- No, absolutely not ... uh, curriculum. Yes And that in itself is- Yes, which is the issue here, right? A lot of the time is the issue. You will not be able to do that, and enrichment activities and opportunities and resources to be that three Cs that DOE always says, college, career, and readiness. Right? That is also a factor, as Farajii went one way, that's another way we have to look at it

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as well. Why these little small schools-- And then we talk about really low enrollment. In the long run, it cannot support the culturally and responsive curriculum, a rigorous curriculum- No, it can't ... enrichment activities, create opportunities, and for our students out there outside of the classroom as well. Real opportunities. Mr. Hanna-Jones, can I ask you a question, sir? Yes, sir. You stated you did your homework, correct? Yes, sir. So I want to ask you, let's stick to District 17.

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Yes, sir. How many schools is in the district? Um, well, I'm not sure how many schools are in District 17. I believe it's 32. I believe it's 32. Don't quote me on that. Okay. How many of those 32 schools within that district is struggling with enrollment? I would say there might be almost half of those schools that are uncertain. I believe it's more than half. Last question. How many schools within that district has less enrollment than 394, last year and currently? I don't know.

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Okay. My last statement would be, I commend you for everything you said, because as a parent, it was everything that I thought of in 2024. My daughter was in a previous school, and don't get me wrong, the school, when you look it up, it was a great school. It was a great school. But I knew as a parent, my daughter was not really learning anything. She was coming home. She was barely getting homework. She could barely read. She was struggling in math. So at the end of that school year,

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I did my homework and I looked up schools. I landed on 394. I enrolled my daughter in 394, and my daughter has improved drastically in ELA and in math. Right. And I wanted to keep my child in that school because as a parent, you know when something's wrong and something's right for your child education-wise, and I knew 394 was the school that my daughter was excelling in. And because of this phase out, I had

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to take my daughter to another school. So this is two schools she's been to within two school years. She enrolled in a school now where she's still academically doing okay. But you know as a parent, what I started to do once she went into that school? In the beginning of the school year, I picked my child up and she ran out and hugged me crying. So I'm like, "What's going on?" She's being bullied. I handled the situation with the school properly.

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It died off. Now you know what's going on now that it's the end of the school year? The bullying is starting over. Mm. So I agree with everything you said, keeping the school open just because the community wants it, I agree with you, and I will stand on a panel stage with you hand in hand and say, "I agree with you." But me advocating for 394 and the community advocating for 394 It's not just about that. It's not that we just want the school open. All of these families feel this is the school where their kids excel in.

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We have a charter school within the school as well. Because of the phase-out, most of our students went up there. They thought charter school was better than public school, which we're not going to get into that. But you know every day I'm approached by these same parents, "Hey, please fight for the school, please fight for the school, because if it stays open, I'm bringing my kids back down." So I don't want you to misinterpret that the community is advocating just because we want to. No. Most of these families feel 394 is the only school that

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gives their child the best education. I think- And I totally agree. I don't disagree with anything that you just said, Mr. Leon, not at all. And sorry, not to cut you off. I'm sorry. No. And you brought up data. The only reason I bring up data, because I don't like to feed into data either. I'm just like you. I don't think data should determine whether a school closes or not. And I agree with you. I listen to you a lot at the panel meetings, and a lot of your theories I connect with because they're beliefs that

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I believe in. But the only reason I bring up data in my advocacy for this school is because that same data is what was used to tear down the school, to phase it out. Yeah. I only bring up the data to contradict why was the school pushed for a phase-out to begin with. So I appreciate what everybody says. So this is the challenge. We want to keep the 17, I feel you, but this is a challenge for New York City public schools. So I am a product of, for elementary and middle school, for

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District 17. So my issue is right now, because I went to 221, I went to Mahalia Jackson, which now is a campus, so there's multiple schools in there. And the pattern that I am seeing is those same communities that made a lot of us, I'm a product of accelerated learning. So what happened to the change around in these communities? Erasmus, at one point, was the number one school in the country, high school in the country. So what happened to these

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communities, which happen to be mostly all community of colors, Blacks. What is happening to these communities, and why New York City public schools, why is it we're seeing this downfall or degradation, I'm going to say, of rigorous academics? Where did it went wrong? Because it wasn't wrong before. So what we have to challenge and what was done or what needs to be done is to reverse this pattern, that all the large schools that got broken down during the Bloomberg era, most of them communities of

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color. Instead of fixing the education rigor or quality of education, we broke them down. Now we're saying that now we see that these smaller schools can't handle it academically, financially, to give those academic rigor. We really need to come back and have a-- New York City public schools must come with a plan to revitalise these communities. Because partly, the other reason, past administrations, academic rigor has fallen in these communities versus others.

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And a lot of it has to do with being affluent and funding, right? Funding, funding, funding. And that's all I'm going to have to say. Because there's no reason that these communities cannot be as academic rigor in all aspects at a time where they were in the past. And for Raji, to respond to you, I want to say this. You know what drew me closer to 394? And I have to be honest with everybody in this meeting. I have stepkids who went to 394, and they all

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graduated from the school. But when they attended 394, I was not involved with the school. I used to drop them off to school, and on my days off, pick them up from the school. But when I got involved with the school in 2024, one of the main things that drew me to the school was I've seen numerous teachers within that school off the clock, late hours in the evening with students, prepping them for tests, prepping them for projects. And I

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immediately felt something in my heart for the school because that's something that was not normal to me. In schools, a lot of these schools that we advocate for, a lot of these schools that the panel make decisions on, you go into these schools and it's a eight to two or eight to three day for the school. The teacher comes in, do their job When the dismissal bell rings, everybody goes. And in 394, I saw the total opposite. I saw a school that was like a family. The teachers really took these kids as their own,

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and that's what drew me to the school, to be honest. That's what made me become involved in this school. That's what made me join the PTA. I tried to join the CEC, but miraculously, my name kept not being shown up when it came to the voting, but that's another story. But everything that you said, Faraji, is the principles that I stand on, and that's what makes me fight for this school. And I'm not going to sit here and lie to you. If I felt this school was no good,

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forget the community. To me, it's about the kids. Yeah. If I felt this school was a detriment to these kids, I promise you, I would never attach my name to anything fighting for that school. Okay. As you all have been talking, I've been adding things to the outline for this position paper. I think this is what you were referring to, Chair Faulkner, when discussing the panel buckling down and making a decision about the position we

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take when closing small schools, especially when the demographics of the student body are that they're majority Black and brown students. So we have previous-- I've added a bunch of stuff in here, but previously, in the profile of an affected school or an affected student, we had just a question of whether or not the school had a functioning SLT. I've added whether or not they have a functioning PA or PTA, and I'm going to also add a little note here, questioning whether or not they fundraise successfully. I know out in Queens, and I'm sure this is the case across the city, but in Queens, some of our schools fundraise so successfully that the PA/PTAs are able

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to fund an after-school program for all of the students at the school, or they're able to fund a, not a teacher, but a professional to come in and teach an enrichment course or offer a studio course at the school. So, I think there is something to be said about the school's ability to fundraise and the ability for the administration and the parents to have that capital to decide what is best for the student experience and how to best move forward

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with these additional funds that they've worked together to put together. Money makes the world go around, and money makes all of our problems go away. To your point, Leon, about feeling very drawn in based on the community feeling that you had at 394 and the feeling I think that all of us can connect to about wanting to understand. From the moment that we walk in the door, understanding that our child is going to be safe here, I think is something that really resonates with parents everywhere. And I think a big part of that is whether or not a school has a parent coordinator.

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So I've added that on there. If there are any things that we want to add to that, I'm happy to. I think just the presence of a parent coordinator and the parents in the building, or guardians, not just parents, but responsible adults for our students, knowing that there is a parent coordinator in the building, just them knowing is helpful and kind of eases some of the anxiety of the day-to-day communications that you have with school. I also added whether or not the schools have relationships with local CBOs. So I'm sure it's the case with larger schools as well, but I know that our smaller schools really depend on some of these

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relationships. And then I've also added whether or not those CBOs offer any additional services within the building that would be affected by the school either closing or being moved or being co-located, et cetera. The only ones that I could think of are the ones that are offered by the YMCA, so like the Beacon After School program, Friday Night Lights. If you can think of any others, please. I've also included ENL classes for adults. If there are other things that are offered more widely, please just add them in. These are just the ones that I could think of. And then I think it's also important for us to understand that these smaller

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schools, when a CBO is offering an after-school program, it may not be the case everywhere, but if it's happening in one place, we can assume it's also happening somewhere else. If the after-school program is exceptionally well-attended, in closing that school, we also have to then realize that we're removing an additional protective relationship from these students by taking away their after-school program or their after-school provider, a person that they see every single day from like 2:30 to 6:00. And then whether or not they offer after-hours or weekend programs. Again, like Friday Night Lights, again, the only thing I can think of.

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Or adult-focused continuing education opportunities. I know it's not just ENL. I think other schools work with the local libraries and offer classes in the school space or maybe in the library space in collaboration with the school. I just think it's important for us to understand because part of the allure of a small school, having been a student in-- I graduated high school in 2007, so I was applying to high schools in 2003, and I still have that huge DOE high school book that you had to go through, and they had the specialized high schools, and then they had the screen schools, and they had all of the

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zone schools, and it was like 500 pages. But even back then, the conversation was very much, if you care about- If your student has anxiety and you care about them having an easier day-to-day experience, a small school is the school for you. If your student comes from a smaller elementary school or a lab-style elementary school or an arts elementary school, a smaller school is the school for you for high school specifically. And part of that was also if you're deeply involved in your community,

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this kind of small school that is focused on rights or on, the one I think of often is Bread and Roses. I just love the name of that school. But smaller schools with very specific mission statements. With that came the idea that they were critical parts of the community. So, I think it's really important that we keep that in mind also with this conversation of how the reputation of bigger schools that had a large Black and brown student body, like Murry Bergtraum or even Brooklyn Tech, whose student body

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has changed over the last 10 years or so. It's important to keep in mind that the conversations that were happening at that time are still very much a part of the conversation that we should be having right now. Can I share something with you all? Yes. My daughter, and Mr. Leon, I'm going to tell you that I find it so cliche when people say, "I see so much of myself in you." And I guess I have an affinity of individuals that are fighting for marginalized, our communities. And in that, my brother, you will always be

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an ally, never an adversary. But my wife and I had to sit, and some of you may hear this story later down the line. We had to sit and listen to our daughter tell us, "Why did you put me in these schools?" Now, my daughter's 16, and I knew it was coming. I knew that her ability to understand why we did it. And one of the things that really hurt her is the fact that she was going to a very prominent, at the time, very prominent on

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paper, middle school. And this middle school, of course, took in a lot of our schools that Mr. Leon talked about, to which those kids were doing very well in their elementary schools in District 13. And however, the principal at that time, through assessment, knew that those kids that were coming in sixth grade were very behind, extremely behind. Now, this is during COVID, because I'll tell you, my daughter in fourth grade during COVID did not get any instruction. All of her instruction literally came from YouTube videos that

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her teacher just sent to her. And if it wasn't for her fifth-grade teacher, she wouldn't have gotten any instruction in fifth grade either. So we had to hear her give us a complete, almost like a lecture as to why we made the decision that we made in terms of putting her into a school, to which she felt that she was put at a disadvantage. And so the conversation ended that had we put you in a place where you were in a more of a homogenous place, because we could have put my daughter in a private school.

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We could've put her in one of the best high schools in New York City and in the country. We could've done that, but we did not. We put her in a Title I school that was in itself in an SEI, very primary school, and many of the other parents did the same thing that we did. And those children went on to do extraordinary things, getting scholarships from colleges and things of that nature. But we really had to reckon with what she had to tell us. And, yeah, I'm kind of tearing up a little bit about it, but it was something, it was a hard conversation.

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Now, did we fail our child in making our decision? Absolutely not. Because she was going to a very prominent high school to which she is still marginalized. The N-word has been used many times. Many of the Black kids, despite the resources and even with the instruction, have to face a lot of harmful things. But her awareness in terms of what's going on socially is the outcome of us putting her in that school. So it was a good thing. But the bad parts of it is that she had no executive functioning skills.

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When she went into high school, she had to be scaffolded in a lot of her homework. Did her parents afford? We put her in the most expensive tutoring. And I couldn't help but think many of her cohorts didn't get that same level of intervention that her parents could provide. And so I'm saying this. If a school is really, truly about the betterment of Black kids, then let it be shown through providing every student The best possible education that the $40 billion that we get

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can buy. No longer should these schools be the bottom of the barrel for school officials to use it as a means of promotion to increase and get a six-figure salary. No principal should be in a under-utilized, under-enrolled school, making a six-figure salary while their children are getting a minimum wage education. That in itself says more. And no matter how much we fight, Mr. Leon, and we do fight. Brother, if I was with you, I'd lay down on the ground, and they would have to roll over me, too. But one of the realities is that

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one day, your child will talk to you and say, "Did you put me in the best position so that I can go out here and so I can compete?" And maybe you can say yes, maybe you can say no. But that's the realization in which we parents have to face. Is whether or not if the decisions that we make, whether you put them in private schools with a mostly white, affluent population, they're still having to go through those same things. But we want to make sure that our children are put in the best

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circumstances, and we can advocate all day long, but it's up to the institution to do right by your students. So brother, I'm with you 100%. I am. And maybe there's more conversation to be had about it, and I'm not trying to convince you in any other way. But I'm saying at this point, in terms of where we are with this proposal, I'm telling you, I seriously cannot allow any school, and I'm against closing schools,

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but I cannot allow and won't accept any student, regardless if the school stays open or closed, I will not accept anything less than absolute excellence. And excellence to me means that are those children ready to go into any setting in this country and to compete? You can go to any basketball court in New York City and put that child anywhere in the country, and they'll be the best basketball player. Your best basketball player in any part

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of the country will be second-best in New York City. You can bet that. Mm-hmm. You got three-year-olds that know how to-- There are more basketball courts that are more accessible, more parks per capita in New York City than in most in the entire country. So being that we have the largest school districts with the most expensive bank, then we should be able to do exactly that. We should be doing the moral and public good in making sure that these schools have what they need. But we cannot accept mediocrity. I don't accept it. I don't.

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I want our children in these neighborhoods to be the best ever. That means that if they go anywhere in the country, that they will be able to compete. Princeton will be a joke compared to the education that they get in New York City. So hopefully, we can come to a consensus. But from my standpoint and what I've seen, I just remain steadfast. I thank you for your kind words, and I 1,000,000% agree with everything you just stated. But by your own words, I'm going to hold you accountable to it.

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You said- Absolutely ... you won't take anything less than excellent from any school, correct? Absolutely, brother. And I believe everybody in this meeting has that same belief. My only question to everybody in this meeting is, how many of schools in this state we can't hold to those same standards? Mm. My question is, why minimize it specifically to this school when I don't want to escape this district. I'm going to stay in District 17. How many of the schools within that same district

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is below 394? One thing I didn't bring up to you guys as well, and this is public record, you can look it up on DOE. 394 ELA and math scores, we leaped over 11 schools within the district with our scores. 11 schools within the district. So why is- Yeah, I think that if we're going to criticize the use of test scores for-- or if we're going to criticize the use of test scores as a metric to close a school, then we cannot use them as an effort in our own benefit,

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right? If we're saying you should not count these because it's irrelevant when discussing closing a school, then we cannot present that as relevant information to keep the school open. In my opinion, that just- No, I agree with you- ... does not Mm ... but I'm not bringing it up for that element. It was brought up to close the school. That's why I bring it up because the data contradicts ... what was pushed to the panel. That's the only reason why I bring up the data, because data isn't everything to me. No, understood. Yeah. Numbers could be manipulated, numbers could be misrepresented.

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But I only bring it up because that was the focal point in closing this school, and the data contradicts that. That's why I bring it up. Thank you. Chair Faulkner, please. Yeah. Well, I just want to say thank you. This was really a great discussion. I want to thank you, Chair, for allowing that. I hope we didn't hijack your agenda. No, that's fine. We were going to discuss the 394 resolution anyway. Okay. And it's been helpful because I've added quite a few things to our outline for our position paper. Great. Well, thank you. This was a great meeting. Thank you. Thank you. All right, so we've been going for about two hours now.

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I think everyone has a link to this document. I'm going to share it in our chat here so that you can access it if you would like to. But this is the outline for the position paper. I only italicized the items that I added down here. Okay. Here, because this is information that we're going to need a little bit more specific data on, right? Whether or not the neighborhoods in Central Brooklyn and Harlem and South Bronx and in Southeast Queens were also targeted by the small school initiatives

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of the oughts and the naughts. I'm sorry, the naughts and the oughts. And then this is information I'd like to dig into more as well, specifically with respect to high schools, to understand how the deconstruction and degradation, really, of the reputations of these larger schools has really led to the situation that we're in now, where we have students, like our kids at Queens High School of the Sciences, who are eating microwave lunch when there's space for them elsewhere. But if there is nothing else, I will see you guys again in July before the July PEP

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meeting. Feel free to email whenever. And Leon, I'm guessing we will see you in July? Most definitely. Awesome. Chair, I'll connect with you after this, maybe tomorrow morning, on how you want to circulate Leon's resolution to the panel. Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Bye now. Good night. Good night.