Okay. Yeah. He texted me that he's having some difficulty, to give him a few minutes. Okay, that's fine. So in the meantime, we can work on the outline for a... I don't know why it has my name in huge block right there. Let's just try and minimize. Oop. Hmm. Let's- That's maybe something new. Yeah. It's just weird that my name's blocking it like that. Why is it right on top there? That's odd. Okay, so we discussed in March, writing a resolution about the trend that we were seeing of smaller schools being closed
in order to comply with the class size law, and that trend was showing us that these schools that were smaller were closing disproportionately so in schools that had larger Black and brown student bodies. So I worked on an outline, and I think we can just work on it together here, because what I have is chicken scratch and highlighted. But I'll just pull up the new doc, and we can start from there. Does anybody else want to discuss other stuff before we get started? Feel free to just come off of mute. Okie dokie, our chokies. Let's do this. Yes. Good evening, everyone. Leon Gittron.
Hey, Leon. PTA President, 394, community activist, District 17 in Brooklyn. Thanks, Leon. Do you want to discuss- Return your... Mute yourself. Okay. Leon, do you want to discuss your resolution first, or are you okay with us going over the outline for the other? I think we should discuss yours first because it's already written. Yeah, I can discuss it. That's not a problem. Okay. My resolution is for PSMS 394 in Crown Heights, Brooklyn. The school was voted for phase out April 30th,
2025, with reasonings being low enrollment and academically. But from that time till now, the school has improved. It was taken off of the state TLS, I think it's called, list, and now the school has been voted as in good standing. The school has a demand for enrollment, which enrollment has increased. Almost every week the school has to turn away parents and students because of the phase out of grades that are no longer phased in.
From the very beginning, the community pushed back against the phase out. The superintendent for the district told the panel at the time that the program that's in favor of taking the place of 394, that this was something that the community wanted. But clearly, that was the wrong narrative, and it wasn't factual because... Leon. Sorry about that. This new enrollment is struggling. This new program at the moment is struggling
for enrollment as well, which lets you know the community did not want it. If the community wanted it, it wouldn't be struggling for enrollment, and they don't have a demand. And I think that it's unfortunate that the school was phased out. But with the current situation going on in District 3, in which the Chancellor Samuels withdrew four proposals, stating part of the reason he pulled them was the outcry of that community. I think that coincides with this school and this community as well, because the
community, from the very beginning, pushed back against this proposal, and this community is still pushing back, and this school has shown it has the ability to still grow. The school already grew. Our state test scores has improved by double digits. So I put together a resolution. My goal is to get the panel to reverse this phase out. I think it's right. I think it's fair. I know even Chancellor Kamara speaks on everybody should be given the same opportunities.
It should be fair, and I think this community deserves to be treated fairly. And as you guys can see in this resolution, I put all the facts there that backs up this fightI have parents every day and coming up to me, some cry. Everybody leans on me, and I'm here for the fight, but I always say this is new territory for me, but I think this is my calling. Amen. And I hate to bring this up, but I feel
in the Black and brown communities, DOE is quick to close schools, and that's not fair. But that school in District 3 was saved. I know they brought up that hot mic moment, but I think even without that, the chancellor would've withdrew his proposal because it was so much going on. That community pushed back so hard. How come their voices was heard and not in this community? I'm sick of hearing about schools closing based on numbers. Numbers could be changed, but- Right ... the effect of closing a school could never be changed.
This school- This school has showed numbers could be changed because this school right now is on a upward trajectory while being phased out. Okay. Just so everyone is aware of the school that Mr. Goodjohn is talking about, the new school is the, I think, it's the CBLA School for students with dyslexia. I'm not sure what the actual title of the school is, but it's that school. I have the resolution up on screen. Is there anyone, any of the committee members that would like to make any comments about this? I don't know if Chair Sauffer's on yet, but he was one of the
driving forces in removing that decision from the agenda that evening. Or I guess that's the utilization proposal from the agenda that evening in that he called attention to the fact that so many members of the community were in distress in the room that night, and there was a clear feeling amongst the panel and folks in the room that there was a hitch in the giddyup somewhere. Somebody lost a critical piece of... Sorry. Somebody lost a critical piece of information in the sharing process. So when he does join, I would love to hear from
him on that. Is there anybody else who would like to make comments? Because if not, I think we're going to try to float this- I'll make a comment. Yes, please do. Hi, everyone. Farajii Anna Jones speaking. Mr. Leon, thank you for bringing this resolution. Sir, I've been where you are, and I know how you feel. Just let me say, first off, no school in New York City should be closed at effing all. I'm sorry to use that, and I'm being very polite with my language, but time and time again, when we hear about schools closing, the blame is always put on parents and students.
Enough is enough with that. And this exacerbates why New York City schools are the most segregated in the country. I'm not saying that to be cliche or poetic. I'm telling the truth, that schools that are closed out, New York City not only harms our students, but it harms the community at large that depend on these institutions. So these institutions, so there needs to be some deep look. I think the metrics that are being used to close these schools are absolutely flawed and archaic,
and I think that we need a different resolution about that, how we look at our schools much more closely. If our school is in SCA status, is that it? SCI, right? It's TSI. Or TSI. If it's in that status, I always said this, and I said this in the last Fed meeting, leadership must be looked at from the superintendent on down. I believe the superintendent needs to be brought in on this. Who was appointed principal of that school? The principal needs to be looked at, and the administrators need to be looked at. Somehow or another, these children were underserved, and the community at large was
underserved. And many of us who have advocated for our schools, especially schools within the high-poverty index or "Title I schools." Title I schools are giving federal funds for a reason. So that federal money should be allocated equitably and in the right way. So now I'm looking at the business managers. Now I'm looking at individuals who are supposed to use that money other than just paying teacher salaries. Are we using that money for the proper resources that will be
sustainable? So we're unpacking a lot of this. You're not going to get a yes vote from me by closing schools. That's not the values that I've lived, the school that my daughter gone to and her cohorts have gone to. And any time that we're dealing with situations like this, we need to look at it much more closely rather than just shutting the doors of schools. So-I just can't, in good faith, in any capacity, anytime I hear a school is closing,
you're not getting a yes vote from me. I'll just make that very clear. I appreciate you, Mr. Hanner-Jones, and I'll piggyback off of everything you said because I have the same beliefs. There's too many other things in this state and this country that we could close, and I don't think schools are one of them. Amen. Yes, Ms. Toussaint, please. Thank you. Yeah, I just have a couple of questions. So the other school is the Central Brooklyn Literacy Academy. So that's Central Brooklyn Literacy Academy? Yes. Okay. All right. I guess
with this resolution, I would probably need to see some more data points, and then specifically name out the other program and ask for enrollment for both schools. And then what I do want to say, I do agree with what Mr. Hanner-Jones said about leadership in these schools, because leadership, they're the ones at the front of the ship. They're the ones steering, getting them to go in the direction they're going in. If this school was a TSI school, whose leadership did it occur under? I think we should ask for a more comprehensive review of
both schools, because it feels like, and this is just me being impartial, it doesn't feel like we're being neutral enough to get the information to everyone in a way that doesn't skew it one way or the other. It needs to be a comprehensive review of both schools, the leadership at both schools, the leadership at 384. Because again, if the school is saved, why would the leadership remain that put them in this precarious position? So those are just questions that I have. I'm glad you brought that up. The 394
was put on a TSI list during COVID, which I think a lot of schools probably was put on a list. But to bring up the leadership, the principal of this school before the proposal was voted on, she publicly stated at the PEP meeting, "Hey, if I need to step away to save this school, I'm willing to do it." She's publicly stated that. It didn't go her way, so now she took her time and energy and care and reversed this school. This school is no longer on that TSI
list. In fact, in science, this school had, in District 17, the highest science state scores from last year. And in ELA and math, it's improved by double digits. To bring up your data points that you're asking for as far as enrollment, the Central Brooklyn Literacy Academy currently at the moment only has 38 kids. Well, it's a new program, and I'm just being honest. Usually in districts, new programs, you have to advertise it and get enrollment. New programs don't usually start at full capacity,
especially things like this. But again, I think just having requests and getting the information for people to compare and contrast and to see how new programs come to be, especially when it comes to literacy, because I would just hate for Crown Heights to lose a program for dyslexia and it just not be there. Because there are other, more affluent districts across the city that would gladly steal this program, and this wouldn't be available. So that's why I would like to see a more comprehensive level of review.
I agree. Wonderful. Hi, Chair Faulkner. We are discussing 394's closure from last year. I'm not sure who had their hand up, but please feel free. Yeah. Sorry I'm late, everyone. I just got here a tail end. I'm sorry. Those are my only questions. I don't have any other questions. That's just all. Just more information about how this program is being implemented, advertised, used, and then obviously more information about Thank you. Chair Faulkner, do you have anything that you'd like to share? And then- Yeah. Going through 394. I remember this proposal. I feel very strongly. I voted, as you know, I abstained. I said the reading program is a great
program. But having to make a choice between keeping the school open and the program, I thought that why couldn't the two programs exist mutually in the building? That was my question. Why are we sacrificing one for the other? I knew the reading program was a great program, and we should have it at 394, along with 394. So anyway, that's my two cents. Yeah. I meant to raise my hand. Oh, thank you. I guess my stance in terms of any school that's being labeled as failing or is in need of improvement, frankly, just even the mention of
closing a school building is, to me, not to me, but it's immoral. This is not my opinion. There's all types of facts that supports what I'm sayingWhen you are seeing a school that's struggling, I will challenge anyone to look at the demographics. Look at the demographics of that school. If that school is majority Black, Latino, I guarantee you, every consideration to close that school will be considered. But if that school was white, every mechanism known to the city of New York City in terms of
support would be done. And Leon brought that to our attention, that you see a community that knows how to circle the wagons and support when that school is in trouble. So any time that we are looking at a situation with a school, it has-- And also too, the language that's being used. You're closing a school, calling it failing. The school's not failing. The term failing means that the children are not, the students are not doing what they're supposed to be doing, which is not the case. They're underserved. So any school that is in a position of being
deemed to be in closure, that, in terms of the institutional department of education, that needs to be re-evaluated in terms of the language that is being used, not just the language, but the outlook and perspective in terms of looking at why schools that look to be closed. Unless that school has mold, a virus that's killing people, that's what you would do to a building. Right? You will take the building down, and you will close it.
But that's not the case here. Case here is totally something that can be improved. If we take every precaution of investment and supporting that school in every way possible to make sure that that school is operating the way it needs to be for that community's sake. And so, this is what we do to student-athletes. You have a Black student-athlete coming out of a high poverty neighborhood, every resource known to man, including tutoring and getting them SAT scores and getting them into the
right school is used and utilized. I've seen it. And so we need to take that approach with every last one of our children. This goes right back into some of the books and research that I have been doing with Yvette Jackson, the "Pedagogy of Confidence." If you have not read that book, please get that book and read it. It is not a big one. You can just read that book, and you will find out that a lot of these terms that are being used is called deficit language. Closure, failing.
Deficit language, and used and targeted at who? Black folks. And this is what we're doing during the time that the Supreme Court strikes down the Voting Rights Act, and now we have birthright citizenship on the horizon this summer for the Supreme Court. So this is a moral issue. So any time that I hear about closing a school, and anyone that is in favor of it, I really question the morality of this whole thing. And so I think we owe it to Mr. Leon and the school community to look at this deeper and actually get the support that that school needs, and demand.
If change of leadership is necessary, then we need to demand the removal of that leadership. If a team is tanking, if the Knicks was tanking this season, you'll be calling for the coaches to be removed. You'll be calling for the GM to be removed. You won't be calling the players. Well, sometimes we call for the players to be removed, but in this case, you'll be looking at the leadership. So I say that same formula and that same philosophy should be used here. And I believe that Mr. Leon is deserving, and 394 is deserving of all the support necessary. And every other school in this city.
Thank you, Mr. Hannon-Jones. I just have one last thing to say to Ms. Grant, I believe that was speaking before me. You brought up it's a new program, and I agree with you, but what I would say from me living within that community and being directly involved in this, I can honestly tell you the CBLA was promoted well before the PEP even made its decision. And with that even being said, there's no restrictions on it getting enrollment. So if it had the demand, they will be enrolling students every day as any other school in New
York State. My point is that it doesn't have the demand. And I don't think this community is saying we don't want the program. Our whole point from the very beginning was exactly what Greg stated. Why can't it be a program and 394 be the hub? The building is big enough. Why does it take pushing out a school to bring in an unknown? And clearly, that unknown is not doing what it was expected to do. When before the PEP voted, CBLA kept
saying it expected to have between 60 and 80 students in September. They're currently at 38. I get it's a new program, but the way theypromoted it to the PEP. "Oh, everybody in this community want this. Everybody want this." Clearly, the community don't. The community is speaking. Hi. No, that wasn't Ms. Grant. That was me, Ms. Toussaint. Again, I'm new to this. I'm just asking questions. I've been on my CEC for about six years.
But again, I hope you didn't take my questions in inquiring as to say that the school should still be closed. That was not it. Again, I was just asking for information, and then just making sure that the information is provided so people can make an informed decision. So those were my questions. That's why I was asking in that manner because, again, I don't have the information, and I don't know how it was disseminated. And if in fact, this does come back to a public discussion and a public vote, I would hope that we want everybody to
have the most recent, current information that is very transparent so that everyone is aware of the true circumstances in which the decision is being made. That was my point. No, I understand. I wasn't assuming anything on your behalf. I'm just- Okay ... advocating and stating the facts that I know. That's all. Okay. Thank you. That's all I was saying. You welcome. Mm-hmm. Further to both of your points, we're going to get a data memo about 394 and CBLA, and we can have
a better discussion after we have all of the data and the numbers in front of us. So I will share that as soon as I have it. sweetheart, you can sit right there. The charger plug's over there. The white one. Use the white charger one. No. Go use the white charger plug. Adriana, I really hope you do get the data because these numbers is something that me and Greg both been asking for for months, and till this day, we haven't got it. Also, in November of 2025, at a PEP meeting, Chairman Faulkner said we should have a briefing on this matter, and then
current chancellor, Melissa, agreed. And from November till now, we still haven't had that hearing, that briefing. That is true. Chair Faulkner, are you- I'm here. Hi. Yeah, I'm here. There's been a lot of stuff that's happened over the time, but I think we're now bringing the issue back and focused on it. I do think that we did discuss having a hearing, and we should probably-- I'll pursue that. I didn't do the follow-up that I should have, so I'm going to own that. I remember Melissa, chancellor then,
did say yes and wanted to make sure that that happened, so I'll do the follow-up on that. I had some real reluctance, and I listened to what everybody has said. When this came before us, and I know that when it was initially presented as a proposal, I was told there was no opposition, and I was kind of curious where all these parents were coming from, and then there was opposition. So the panel did something unusual. We held back. We tabled it. And as I got more information, it just kept sort of reinforcing itself to me that this was a great program, but just the wrong building,
what we're doing to that community. I understand there was a mental health clinic in that school that now is gone from the community as a result of all of this, and it just doesn't feel right. That was an important service that was being provided to that community that is no longer there because there are people making other plans for the building and denying something that I think was really important to the community, which is concerning to me. So I'm glad the committee is taking this up as a point of discussion. And so, I really appreciate that. Thank you, Chair Faulkner. Okay. Leanna, I will follow up as soon as I have the
data memo, and I will share it with the entire committee. If everyone is okay with moving on, we can do that unless anyone has any other questions or... Oh, yes. Laura, please. Oh, thank you. Hi. Hi. I was looking a little bit at utilization data, and are you co-located with a charter school? I was trying to figure that out. Yes, we are. Okay. And most of the students from 394 enrolled in that
charter school because most of the kids live in the community. They didn't want to travel outside of the community. And we have parents who said if 394 was to be phased back in, they will bring their kids back from the charter school. Also, one more point I want to bring up with CBLA as well. During the proposal, they said that 394 will be granted first seats to the CBLA. But I don't want to say unfortunately because it just shows the power of 394. OnlyTwo
kids from 394 are currently in the CBLA, and that's because most of our students weren't eligible for CBLA because they're reading at grade level or above. Interesting. Was that the only thing that was looked at for the students' eligibility? Yes, because as you all know, the main thing was dyslexia. Mm-hmm. And then I think based on testing for reading, I think that was part of what they looked at for enrollment as well. But 394, almost all of our kids wasn't
eligible because they was all reading at or above their grade level. So, CBLA probably wouldn't served no purpose. Mm-hmm. Okay. I have a couple questions. In terms of Leon, do you know who's on the school leadership team of PS 394? Yeah, I know a couple members. I don't know everybody off top at this current moment, but I'm actually on the school leadership team as well. Okay. So I guess my question is, in terms of anytime any school is under TSI, my daughter's middle school at one point was under TSI.
So the school leadership team does request to see where that money was going. So, certain level of years you can go back to somewhat do something like an audit to see where that money was being allocated, how was it being used. So these are questions for the principal. Is that something that was asked of the school leadership team? Yes. And what was the answer from the principal? I think she gave information to programs that the superintendent instituted in the school to help build it up.
She showed, I guess, a paper trail to show where the money went, but as it was stated, yeah, the superintendent put in all these programs, but she never once came into the school to see are these programs working. Right. So the community felt like it was a setup. Setup for failure. Because one reason why I'm asking questions is not to try to find reason or anything wrong. It's just to ensure that the school leadership team are asking the right
questions to get the right answers, and to ensure that there's an acceptable response from the school leadership. So if you're getting an acceptable response from the principal and you're not getting an acceptable response from the superintendent, then that's something that we should be looking at. From my experience in dealing with a lot of this as well, is that sometimes we'll ask of the principal and get the runaround, or it will be tabled for the next meeting,
and then we find out that the school's in trouble. So, just trying to make sure that you have support on that end and making sure that the right questions are being asked. Anytime that you're getting money from the state, it is to help and elevate that school to bring it up to where it needs to be. And if that's not the case, then I have to question the principal and the superintendent on whether or not they're doing what they're supposed to be doing to ensure that that school is successful. Because if it's not, then here we
are, and now we're fighting to keep the school open when really the people that are held accountable should be the principal and the superintendent. And I stand on that. I agree with you, and I know for a fact that the principal at this school, she's willing to lay out whatever is necessary. She's transparent, and she's not shying away from anything. And she's said that from the very beginning. And like I said, she also said in the beginning, if it came down to taking one or the other, if she could
leave and transfer somewhere else in order to save the school, she was willing to do it. Thank you for that, sir. No problem. All right. Anybody else on the meeting on the Gudron's resolution? Cool. I'm not sure if we have new members or not, but we are going to get a data memo and have additional conversations about this specifically. If we can move on, and I'm happy to go back to that if people are interested in going back to that or if something else comes up and somebody thinks of something, we can go back. What we have next is the review and discussion of
the outline of the resolution that was proposed at our March meeting. I have it. I'm going to put the outline that I have so far up on screen.It's written more as a position paper than a resolution because I personally don't enjoy writing "whereas" 200 times, and I don't think it's easy to get your point across that way. So I have a working title, a central question that is kind of what we discussed that evening, and then our central thesis,
the CT right there. Council Member Faraji and I are supposed to be writing this together, but I kind of bogarted it. I'm sorry. We can work on it together now. Okay. But this is what we have so far. The working title being "Too Small to Save and Too Easy to Close, Who Wins?" The question that we discussed was, how are we ensuring-- And that's all of us. From here at the DOE offices, that's us, the PEP members, and at the superintendent's office, at the principal's office, to make sure that the parent coordinator is getting information out, and the PAPTA presidents are supported to
get that information out. So how are we ensuring that students who are already disenfranchised and dealing with equity issues in school are shielded from the negative impacts of their school being closed because it was too small? Inverted commas on too small for the transcript. The too small part of it comes up because, at least for the last couple of months, the conversation surrounding, I guess, the first checkpoint of whether or not a school was going to be listed as potentially closing or merging is the size of the student body. And I don't see Committee Member Lainey on,
but she is always talking about how the enrollment office could control that. We're not really going to address that part in this resolution. We can, maybe, but as of right now, that is not the idea. But it is interesting to think about what too small means, and I think that the chancellor has defined for his chancellorship that 150 students or less is too small. I might have the number wrong on that, but I think that that is what he said. It might have been 250, but I think he said 150. And then the central thesis, in an effort to meet-- Ignore my grammatical errors. In an effort to meet the class sizes mandated by New York State
Education Law 211-d by the New York City Public Schools, actions specifically closing small schools, disproportionately and negatively impacts Black and brown students. Unchecked, the current practices and policies serve to compound their marginalization. I know that's two sentences, and it shouldn't be if it's a thesis, but does anybody have anything that they'd like to add to that or anything they'd like to add in general? And then we can just move forward. And sorry, everybody, the hustle and bustle. My husband walked in with coffee for me. All right, come off of mute because I cannot-- It's hard for me and my eyesight to see if anybody's hands are raised. But this part should just be our discussion.
My hand is up high. Whitney Toussaint. Hi, Whitney. I like this. I do think there is another component that isn't being discussed, and Laura kind of touched on it earlier. Yeah. A lot of these schools in Black and brown areas are co-located with charter schools that are taking up too much space in their buildings. And so I definitely think that that should be considered as well because the charter school being co-located in these buildings, they often poach the children from the community school, and that needs to be discussed. Because I know that we are dealing with that in District 30, and it's a shame
because the charter school says a lot of language, and Mr. Hanner-Jones, I'm going to steal some of your language. Mm. They use a lot of words that are very disparaging to the existing- Yes ... school community. Absolutely. And use words that make our children sound like the failures, and our children are not the failures. And so I think that that is a component that should be touched on in this discussion, because that is something that occurs quite frequently. I agree. I'm going to put that, if you're okay with that, I'm going to put that in profile of an affected school or profile of an affected student, and I
completely agree with you. Chair Faulkner, please come off of mute. And I know of two communities in particular where there's a school next door that actually needs the space. There's a charter school that's vacated about 30 classrooms, and they're holding onto those classrooms. And I don't know whether it fits here, but at some point, we ought to be able to make a statement and say, if what I've heard, in fact, is this charter school plans to transfer the space to another charter school. And we- They can't do that. I don't know. I thought the same thing, but it looks like it's
proceeding. So I think there needs to be some conversation that if a charter school vacates the space and it's vacated for a certain amount of time, that they forfeit that space and it reverts back to the public school system, because- That's fair ... it is definitely happening. And I can cite an example where a sizable number of classrooms are available. The charter school has indicated that they're leaving for any number of reasons, and when there was an effort to recover that space, they said no. It was the Success Academy. So- Okay ... it's somewhere we need to figure out how we can make some noise about this and
address it. So I don't know if it's in your document, but I'm hoping that at some point we can really stress that, because it really handicaps us from doing things in the system Absolutely. So I have a quick question. So with your understanding and knowledge of how it works at city council, is this something that could be a local law, the reversion of the charter seats to NYCPS via the BUP or otherwise? Yeah. Unfortunately, I think it might be state. I thought so, too. Yeah. Education falls under the state. It wouldn't hurt if the city council were to pass us a message, a
resolution, and say that we feel strongly. Any pressure we could bring. So the council can formally communicate to the state that this is something that we'd love to see happen. And by the way, a lot of these things I think only happen in New York City, but other parts of the state, it's handled completely differently. Yeah. So, they're imposing on us in some of these communities, things that they would not impose on their own community. No, correct. They're allowed to use public dollars for private good. Yeah. I wonder if maybe there is something that we can discuss with legal, like a term that can be added to the BUP.
I don't know how binding that would be, considering it is state law that is the provider there, but it might be worth it. I think it's good for the panel to sometimes make some noise and to get some attention that might drive the process. It's not going to hurt, but it's doing everything that's within our power to do, and that will draw attention. As you notice, the press now does cover the panel- Yeah ... and pays attention to the things that the panel is saying. So we ought to use that, they call it the bully pulpit, we ought to use that to be able to influence policy.
I prefer to call it iron sharpening iron, or steel sharpening steel, but bully pulpit works, too. That's good. Yours is better. They both work. Okay. So for the introduction, I don't think it's necessary for us to give the whole spiel. We can instead discuss how the class size law is paradoxical for us here. The requirement of 20 to 25 students for general education students, the goal being equitable learning environments, and the implementation strategy to this point appearing to be the closure of small schools. Those don't really seem to be aligned with the
same goal, and the message is completely all over the place. And then we can keep a brief explanation of the class size law. I think it's really important, the language that we use in this document, that we don't say class size mandates or class size mandate. Mm-hmm. We should say mandated class sizes, the class size law. I think that the culture around language is very important- Yeah ... and the way that we speak in documents that are going to exist for a long, long time. It's really important that it's evident from how we're talking about
this. How we feel about it, rather, is evident from how we're talking about it. Okay. I would also like to include, just for clarification, the mandated sizes by grade band, because folks are a little confused how it goes from fifth grade to middle school and the differences there. And then the penalties for non-compliance, specifically sticking to what is in the state law, not conjecture, not, "They could do this." No. What the state law says the penalty would be, and we can just touch on that very briefly. Following that, the implementation strategy seems to be
focusing on closing under-enrolled schools. And that's not just out of nowhere. That's based on statements by the chancellor and by the trends that we have seen over the last school year. If I'm going too quickly, please feel free to jump in, or questions as they come up. Under that, the schools that are closing tend to be alternative or community centric. Prime example of our discussion this evening, 394 had a mental health clinic within the school, and those services are no longer going to be provided in that form and fashion to that community.
Which is a shame because I'm sure that those services were used and well needed. And then for the profile of the affected school and affected student, before we added this here, I had just that small schools targeted for closure disproportionately located in Black and brown neighborhoods, and then I've listed Center Brooklyn, the South Bronx, Southeast Queens. I have to figure out the areas that are the most appropriate for Staten Island. And then for Manhattan, there's a few. I have more stuff on my notes scribbled next to me, but I would like for us to
discuss what else we should add to this, and what else we should discuss. Or just needs to be added to this. Thank you. As an example, some of the existing inequities that we know that our Black and brown students are disproportionately affected by are underfunding in their schools, so that's C4E, the Compacts for Excellence, fair student funding, all of these things, right? The way that we fund our schools disproportionately affects our Black and our brown students. We know that. But having, I think, specifics in the paper will be helpful. Another existing inequity, less experienced teachers. Yes. Or less diplomaed teachers. They don't have as many letters
behind their name. I initially had higher suspension rates on here, but that is no longer true, and that is actually a section of the chancellor regulation that I don't know what to put in. And then the lack of advanced coursework or/and the lack of education around advanced coursework. A few months ago, someone came to the PEP and explained to us the finite differences between AP and the SAT thing that'sOne of the other ones. The difference between AP and something else. And a lot of us were like, we were unaware that the difference was a
test, essentially. Mm. And I think that if the students were aware, that they would probably make some different decisions, or maybe they would feel empowered to go ahead and take that course. So, that is what I meant by the lack of advanced coursework. Happy to add more to that. And then I would like to get into over-policing in our schools. Not sure if that is necessary for this part of it, but we can talk about how our students are simultaneously over-policed, and yet we have a deficit in school safety agents. We don't have school guards, et cetera, et cetera.
And then I would like to go into a few arguments for discontinuing this practice specifically, and ways that we can shield the students who are facing inequities in their daily student experience from facing additional inequities that would be caused by their school closing. I'm going to stop talking now and just drink this coffee. I'm processing. And I wanted to address the fact that although small class size is important, there are benefits. Small class size should be intentionally beneficial for our Black kids in their schools, specifically in schools that are
within the high poverty index. So, everything going forward in terms of small class size should be intentional. Mm-hmm. So there should be intentionality in every aspect of how we model this and how it's implemented and deployed. So I think that should be something studied. And anytime you're talking about advanced learning, like I said, I'm referencing the pedagogy of confidence, the importance of learning mediation from early childhood, and then also ensuring that we're not taking the same stance as how we are
ensuring that quality instruction exists, and making sure there's fidelity within instructions. And there should be some level of oversight from the school leadership team to ensure that these things are in compliance. So we would say that in here- Yes ... by saying that we need to tap into local leadership a bit more? Yes. Okay. Because when we're talking about school autonomy for school leadership teams, they need the CECs, but generally school leadership teams are the backbone in what happens in
the buildings. While committee member Hannah Jones was talking, I added this bit up here to our central thesis. Neutral policies applied to unequal systems produce unequal outcomes. That's- Mm-hmm. Yeah. Add an even number to an odd number, you're always going to get an odd number. Yep. Okay, so I'm going to add to our recommendation to work more closely with our local leadership. Yes, Laura? And forgive me if this is something that I'm unaware, but I was wondering about how some of these schools are given exemptions on the class size
law, the mandated class size law. And I'm wondering, and I'm not 100% sure, but I imagine some schools that are given the exemption because of space limitations, if they're co-located with another school, it might also fall into that. Oh, okay. Yeah. You've got it. Okay. Sorry, I was going back and forth about to add something. Please continue. Oh, yeah. No, I was thinking, I was like, oh, also if you're in a school that's co-located with a charter school or just another program, and
some of these schools have those... What do I call it? There's just a disparity between the students at one of the co-located schools versus the other one. And I'm thinking, I'm like, "Oh, well, if they're in the same place and there's a space limitation, that could impact the school that is less advantaged, that it doesn't have as much space to spread out." And- Agreed ... I was like, "Okay, maybe that's a thing." I think that's definitely a thing. And again, if committee member Hampson was here with us tonight, she would be able to speak to this more. But there does tend to be,
even in the little bit of research I was able to do for this, one second, there does tend to be-Yeah. So New York City Public Schools' data on transfer patterns shows, or at least indicates that students from closed schools often end up in underperforming or overcrowded schools. I'm not sure how true that is still.
Some of the data I was able to find is from pre-COVID data. So I would like to make sure that that's correct before we put it in here. And then just from what we hear during meetings, closures tend to cause students to not want to go to school, right? So for us, that means chronic absenteeism, right? Mm-hmm. Where we're connecting those dots. Mm-hmm. And for us, that also means that whether or not their special education services or other services have been already connected for them at their new school, if they are absent, they're not getting their
services. So that is a thing that we tend to hear a lot, is that their services are maybe there and waiting for them, right? Let's believe the best outcome has happened. But if the child or the student does not feel comfortable or is not in the head space to go to school, the services may as well not be there to them. I think another thing that's very important for this, and it's further to Committee Member Kidron's point earlier, is when we're looking at this specific aspect of it with an equity lens, we see and we saw last month how middle class and specifically how our white
families often tend to have this capital of time with respect to school closures and school choice. They also have the capital of relationships with leadership in ways that leadership in other areas may not have extended those olive branches. So it is very critical that we navigate this with an equity lens, right? I know that all of us here will do that, but that we keep the paper focused on that as well. Anything else there? Alright. So one of the arguments and the first argument that I wanted to propose for this is that closing small schools specifically disrupts the
protective relationships that have already been built there between the student body and the administrators or their teachers. And it also tends to disrupt culturally affirming spaces or spaces where they're practicing culturally responsive education. We know that smaller schools often provide conditions that are necessary for the success of our Black and brown students, right? And these conditions are directly counteracting the inequities that they face, not only inside of the school building, but outside of school as well. So that is as simple and as complicated as having a trusted
adult and having culturally sensitive pedagogy- Mm-hmm ... and culturally sensitive curriculum. Those three things are easier to do in a smaller space. Obviously, anything's easier to do in a smaller space. But it's really important that those are not lost, and that aspect of getting an education at a small school isn't lost either. The evidence that I think may help us here to illuminate our point, I have read a little bit of research on relational trust and how student-teacher ratios affect a student's ability to
build trust with the adult in the room. I think we all know that, right? If you have a small class, it's so much easier for the teacher to build relationships with the students and really understand how the students learn. I think having the research and the numbers to back that up, even outside of the New York City public school system, and also, I would love to be able to pull in research from around the world. We live in a global society. We should be comparing the student experience of our students here in New York with the student experience of students in London, and with students in Paris,
and with students that are taking classes anywhere in the world. If they're of the same age, they should be learning similar things, right? Et cetera. I don't want it to just be focused on New York City and then maybe the state. I don't think that that is as big of a picture as we need it to be. Okay. I would also like to, for evidentiary support, add examples of New York City-- There are small schools in New York City that have already closed that served predominantly Black and brown student bodies. And then I would like to count off or tick off how many of those offered
restorative justice programs, how many of them had ethnic studies classes or ethnic studies student groups, or had community-based learning in addition to being a community school. So, if they offered ESL classes for the community on the weekends, or if they had-- I know the Y does things like Friday Night Lights. Those types of things, I would like to understand how much and how often we're losing those when we're closing these small schools. And then to kind of close the circle on that first argument, I think we need to also focus on the impact that these closures have on our students when we're
taking-I can speak from personal experience here. We take a student from a small school and put them into a school that is larger. There's lots of things that the student is going to face, but also internally, that can be very scary. It can be very shaky. I went from going to a very small middle school, we graduated with like 60 kids, to Beach Channel High School when it was one high school. And I had a panic attack every single day for the first two weeks of school, and then my parents transferred me to a different high school that I ended
up graduating from because I just couldn't take it. So I cannot imagine that anxiety or that feeling in our elementary school students and in our middle school students. It really breaks my heart. So, in addition to just that student anxiety, they're then going into potentially a larger school, a school that is impersonal to them, a place where the teachers and the adults don't know them. So there is a chance that they're going to be disciplined for something that in a few weeks they're going to go ahead and turn the other cheek and look away from because it's not that big of a deal. For whatever reason that they have for that.
And then, there's also the chance that they're not going to reach out and try as much academically. They're not going to raise their hand in class, et cetera. Those little things very much affect the student experience as they move through school. The second argument that I wanted to address are the displacement and the destabilization that's triggered when schools are closed. It is often, at least from what we can see and from what we hear from our parents and members of the community that come to PEP meetings, when we close small schools or we close schools that are in Black and brown
neighborhoods, we're not just having the students go to a new school. We're fracturing their peer groups. We're potentially increasing their commute time. And then again, there is a risk of losing access to or just not accessing special education, ELL services, et cetera. We can use similar data, I think, similar New York City Public School transfer data for that part. And then we can also cite the statements that have been made by parents and students, et cetera, at PEP meetings for that. I feel like I've talked for a long time.
No. So we need to add- Yeah. I'll add them. For sure. Does anybody want to add anything to that? Oh, it's Laura. So I agree with you about the impact, and you spoke about your junior high school experience. It's something I've seen with my oldest child, who's seven now. When you went from a very small ratio, pre-K and 3K program, to 25 kids in kindergarten, and then 29 kids, 30 kids in first grade. It's just
going from a very small environment to an environment where you just have these much larger classes. But it's really difficult, especially for kids who are still learning. They know how to go to school, but they don't really-- There's a lot of independence that's expected of a kindergartner, I would say. There's not as much wiggle room. Because you have so many more students, as a teacher, you'd have to be responsible for so many more children. So yeah. I think it definitely would have a big impact, if a child in elementary school lost that close-knit community and had to go to a much larger
school. Can we also talk about how we as parents feel about that? I think that that's also something that we should include, right? We need the human element of that. I often feel like New York City public schools, and sometimes the PEP, we are very IQ, and we need more EQ. Mm-hmm. Definitely. Yeah. I think a lot of parents choose schools based off of, oh, does it have the perception of being a really large school? Do I think my child will get lost in the school? And that's something that I think-- Like in Jackson Heights, a lot of parents do talk about that.
There's some schools that feel smaller, versus ones where I'm like, "Oh, I think they'll get lost." Just in terms of size, class size, and also just size of school, where there's just multiple classes on each grade. And I think there's also a disparity between the parents who I wind up having those conversations with, in terms of socioeconomic class and race. Fair. Would small class size give room to enrichment clusters? So then it's not supposed to affect or it's not supposed to-- You're not supposed to lose any of your art rooms, enrichment
rooms- Mm-hmm ... music rooms.Not supposed to, but I think that that is a school-based decision, what they do with that space. So if the principal, or rather the admin, it's not just the principal- Right ... makes the decision that that art room could be better utilized as a music and art room, or as the rehearsal space and the art room, and the music room, then it can become those things, and then those other rooms could be used otherwise. I think that the principals and the communities have a lot of space to be
creative, and we need to make sure that they're not being creative and taking away the space. Because my concern is not creating another model that only allows teaching the state test. Correct. Yeah. Adopting more of a model that identifies their skills, that enhances their intellect and the criticality, and then also applying those elements of joy. And that is something that I believe that, culturally speaking, that schools,
predominantly Black, need to have. And that should be an intentional element applied. The other part to it is just ensuring that we have historically responsive literacy and being intentional about that. Because if we're going to have small class sizes, that means that we are taking a step in the direction of increasing literacy and comprehension. Well, that's the goal, right? Yes. It would be interesting also to see what kind of conversations that we can have about curriculum and maybe placing the responsibility of
creating our curriculum back into the hands of our teachers, since they're teaching our students and should be trusted to do so. Anyway. Okay. I will add the rest of that as we're talking. The third argument, and this part of it skews negative and I don't like that, and I kind of want to reframe it, so I'm going to rely on everyone here to do that. The policy process itself. So, not just the SUP, the School Utilization Process, but I guess the identification process itself excludes the most affected communities.
I think in that, the idea is for a smaller class size to make the overall experience better for the student, and that is, we have to make sure that that is also happening in our Black and brown districts inside of our schools in our District 7. So, the claim, and what we hear often, so the claim for this first one up here, is that the decisions to close the small schools are made without meaningful input from Black and brown communities specifically, and then within that from parents and families, from students. And then also, we very, very rarely hear from our community-based
organizations, which tend to provide incredible and required necessary support for our students and for administrators and parents and families also. I think that what works against us here is that the process is set forth by the state, and so it feels like we are checking the boxes. It feels like the offices here within DOE, I will speak for myself, it feels like folks just check the boxes because this is what they need to do, and it's required of them to get it done. I don't think that they're doing it negatively.
I think that it is a framework and they have to do number one, then they do 1A, 1B, 1C, then they do number two, and they do 2A, 2B, 2C. And there is not enough space within that framework as it exists currently, in my opinion, to address people and to address how our students experience school. So we can't, again, we cannot take this neutral policy of we have joined public hearings, we've had community engagement, we do those things, and yet we go to the PEP and the community is like, "No one ever talked about this.
Why are you doing this to us? We should be speaking about this with our admin first." Mm-hmm. Right? And DOE will say, "Hey, guys, one, two, three, A, B, C are all done. So we did our engagement, we did our outreach, et cetera." And yet we know that that's not enough. I want to get that part across, not necessarily in a more positive way, but in a way that makes it clear that there is a road out of this and we need to find it or work through it, maybe. Mm-hmm. Anybody? All right. After we have our arguments presented, we can move forward with-- Sorry, I'm getting back to another page. We can move forward with counterargument and rebuttal.
We already know the counterargument is that the class size law is neutral. Closing small schools is a logistical necessity to reallocate teachers and space, et cetera. And then all students benefit from smaller classes. And objectively that's true, and neutral policies apply to unequal systems produce unequal outcomes, and that means that our students remain in unequal environments. I don't like that. We can cite a few of the neutral policies or rather the effects of the neutral
policies. Schools with 150 Black and brown students that are deemed too small when compared to that similarly sized school in a different district might be advertised as a boutique school or a unique learning experience, et cetera. And then I think we need to also make it clear that the class size law's goal is undermined entirely when our students are either displaced and end up in a place that was larger than they
were used to, or they're emotionally displaced, and they don't really feel engaged with their school day- Yeah ... as they did previously. It makes him more seen. Correct. Yes. Small class size makes our students more seen, not seen as a test score. No, of course. Right. As the people that they are. Mm-hmm. And then the most- Y'all got that DOE. I don't know if anyone can use these, but that's fine. It's all good. I think that we can also make some recommendations, right? I'd love to not just present a problem, but also present some solutions. So I have some proposals. I'm just going to rattle them off, and then we can talk
more. I think the first would be a moratorium on closing any school that's been identified as a small school if it serves predominantly Black, brown or low-income students until a community-led equity audit- Mm-hmm ... is completed. I think that that is a route. That's a route. Another route could be creating a criteria for an equity shield, right? So if you meet these criteria, you are then shielded from closure. Mm-hmm. So those criteria could be, a school cannot be closed for its size if it also
shows above average outcomes in attendance, in safety, right? So if they have a negligible number of school safety incidents, stuff like that. And then also if Black and brown students who are profiled or who are surveyed communicate belonging, right? That they feel that they are accepted and that they belong within that school. I think that immediately should be a red flag for a shield there. Another route is fully funding these small schools in
our Black and brown neighborhoods first. So we start with fully funding those first. Yep. We fully fund them in order to meet the mandated class sizes by grade band instead of closing them, and then we move forward with either expanding their enrollment or maintaining their enrollment so that we can continue to keep them open as they are. The fourth route-ish that I had, and I don't know that this really makes any sense, or rather, not that it makes any sense to include it because I think that this already exists. I'm not sure if it does, but I think it does.
Mandating that any student affected by a closure gets a right to returns and wraparound services, right? So their transportation is also covered in that. Any additional support that they need as a transfer student would be covered in that, and then that's with a plan that we make for each of the students affected by the school closure. Mm-hmm. And that plan is also communicated to their parents so that everyone's on the same page of like, "Little Ricky Bobby is moving to this new school in September, and with that, we're going to make
sure that he has access to an OT, and he has access to a PT from day one." And Mom knows that, and Dad knows that, and Grandma knows that. Everybody knows, so that when Ricky Bobby gets to school, he is excited, and he feels like he belongs, and he's welcome there. Okay. That is it. For that, I think we also should include a bunch of the data that Laney shares with us regularly. Her maps are cool. They're pretty great. And then we can overlay the areas where we see disproportionate number of
schools closing or targeted areas. I don't like to call it that because it feels-Militarized, and I hate that language in a school space. And then I think we also need to include a very simple timeline of the five years originally set forth in the class size law, and then how many school closures we're seeing as we get closer to year five. Yeah. And it's not meant for DOE to use-- change the language so it suits us, but to be intentional about the language that we're using, so it's done the right way. Don't change the language just to accomplish the goal of
still marginalizing our kids. Be very intentional. Mm-hmm. Because they always change the language whenever they want to. Right. You have to change the policy, not just the description. Exactly. Does anyone else want to-- Oh, yes, please, Chair Protherme. Yes, please, someone else. I'm just listening carefully, and I'm just wondering, when we make these considerations, do we really look at the impact that it has on a child? Where there are children who function much better in a small environment, and if you take that same child and place that child
into a school of 500, it becomes a problem. It doesn't work. It's like we do the environmental impact study, and I'm trying to remember if we really look at what is this going to do in terms of the emotional and impact on the children, if that makes any sense. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Because I've changed my thoughts on this. Initially, when they would present the numbers to me, it became just almost a dollar and cents. Well, does it make sense to operate a building based on the number of students? And in the sort of discussions
around District 2, I really changed that opinion, that we ought to be looking at what benefits the children and what's the impact that it's going to have on children. And I heard some of the parents making this argument when we were closing some of the schools, that, yeah, the school is below a certain number, but the children are doing very well, and that the children function better in that environment and would probably not function as well in a larger environment. I don't know. What I'm hearing is you guys are really setting some policy parameters that would give guidance in terms of when these decisions get presented to the panel.
What is the panel looking for, and what are we going to be considering? Yeah, go ahead, Faradji. Everybody got to understand that closing a school really causes a lot of disruption. And so let me kind of break that down. So when you are closing a school, that means students lose their bus routes, they lose their mentors, after school programs, community anchors, all those type of things. When you have a small class size, and you're looking at it intentionally at what we just discussed- Mm-hmm ... that actually stabilizes that community.
So when you keep schools open and intentionally have smaller class size, it just does the opposite. It doesn't disrupt that community. It really elevates and enhance. And it leaves it open for most of the things that we want to do in terms of building parent involvement, building community involvement and participation. And even the vetting of school leadership, it just allows that to be seen much more broadly. Yeah, I agree with you. Thanks too. Yeah. I'm just kind of breaking down elements-
No, I hear you. I appreciate that. What I'm saying is, do we consider those factors when we have the proposal in front of us? When we read the EIS statement, is that a component of the EIS, or are we just looking at other factors? Or for some reason, those questions that you're bringing up, Faradji, don't jump out as equally important as part of the environmental impact statement that we get from the Office of Planning. There should be an emotional impact statement that says what this will do for that community, what it will do for that school environment, what it will do
to those children, is what you're talking about. Right. And I don't know that that's a part of the decision. At least coming on the panel a few years ago, it was simply looked at as this makes sense for a number of reasons, but I don't think we were looking at the emotional impact. We weren't looking at this child will function well here but may not function in a different environment, and whether that is something that we ought to somehow suggest be formalized in the way that we do these closures. I agree. What is the two- Yes, Mr. McCall? Mm-hmm.
I see Alice has her hand up. Hi, guys. So let me ask a couple questions that I just want to be clear about, because I do agree that the main aspect that we really have to think about is the impact, right? And I do believe the most important thing is the emotional impact that it has, especially on these students. So I'm going to go back to the one thing I've had experience with. So I'd love to hear if other people feel that they can confirm this. The one aspect that we discussed, especially when it came to District 3, that I felt that we brought to the table, I felt, as
most of us, as parents, have had access. I know I was on three different SLTs. I personally wanted to be a recorder of what was stated so that I felt good about what I was experiencing. And then as each meeting happened, and you had to approve the meeting minutes, I knew, okay, I got what went down. Right? I got it. I feel better about it. I can move on.So, what was still missing for us, for me anyway, was that all these schools that didn't comply by having an SLT in existence,
that to me is really up to us and in our control to state SLTs and their recordings need to exist, and they have to be readily available. Not foiled, but readily available. That is one thing that I think we can stand firm to, and in those SLT minutes, that is a time where you get a litmus test. I've been in at least two schools where the emotional quotient was discussed and recorded.
So aside from us really having that in our power, I don't put it to the DOE because it's within us to do that. And this is where CECs have that ability too. Each CEC should have representation, or each school in that district needs to have a representative sit on the CEC. So what I'm confused by is how these things don't get translated so that we see these things. There's a breakdown. And that we need to educate if it isn't already on ParentU.
That is something we need to be consistent about in every conversation we have, is that we deserve to make sure that every school knows it is their responsibility to have SLT minutes, it is their responsibility to have them readily available, and it is their responsibility to make sure that they have a representative on CEC. That's their backup plan. And if they don't have representation on CEC, then how are they ever going to get the supports beyond district level? Central. They're not. They're not going to get those supports. So I kind of feel like it was very difficult to watch as
parents were opining, but I'm like, but where's the documentation that indicated that you really didn't know about this? I really have a difficult time not understanding why that doesn't exist. And I put it back on the parents that, oh, they opined, but I'm like, but did you go back to your SLT, and where was the documentation? So I can't remember who brought it up. I'm pretty sure it was Camille and Noah. Thank you for trying to get that stuff. But that's a real breakdown that we cannot ignore.
Yes, Whitney, please. Good. I would love to jump in as a CEC president and co-president. CECs serve as a liaison to the SLTs. Let's be honest. Alice, you hit the nail on the head. There are so many schools that do not have functioning SLTs. That's one end of the spectrum. They just don't. Then we have some schools that have very high functioning SLTs, very involved. They come to our CEC meetings. We are able to liaise with them, so that's the other end of the spectrum. There's other schools in the middle of the spectrum where
they're... Okay, I'm trying to think of a polite way to say this. I don't have the words. I'm sorry. But there are some SLTs where school leadership, like administration, they overpower the parents, the parents are disengaged, the parents are spoken over, and they just do whatever school leadership tells them to do. The parent community is not engaged, involved, or empowered. So this is the spectrum of what we have. CECs are supposed to go to their SLT meetings. In our council in District 30, we have a really good council where they do go to their SLT meetings.
I go to my school's SLT meetings sometimes. I need to go back to some more, but I make sure that they have my information. They can call me. We know what's going on, especially if there is a school that could be considered in one of these proposals. And I do want to touch on what Chair Faulkner said about the reports. If you look at those educational impact statements, it seems like there's a template in there where they do bullet mention the programs in the school. Like if there's a community school model, the programs that they have in there. But there's no mention of how many of the students utilize these vital programs that come with these community school models
with their partners. That is not mentioned. This is where the involvement, what Alice was saying about the SLT, could give color, context, and background to what is going on at these schools. And unfortunately, this level of engagement is not happening the way it should happen because parents are not being empowered to have this information. This needs to happen. And when you do have parents who are empowered, who are involved, who can do these things, you can get it done. But again, SLT, sometimes we have school leadership.
The parents are there just to check a box. Sometimes they don't even have meetings to where parents can make the meeting or where their school staff can make the meeting. I think Mr. Leon said he's on his school SLT, and I don't think he said he could mention everybody's name on the SLT. These are issues that are pervasive everywhere. I know who the members are in my school SLT. We're able to watch hybrid, and if you want to spectate, you can go to the school in the morning when the meetings are happening, or you can sign on to the Zoom. But that's not happening everywhere.
So again, to make sure that these impact statements are as strong as they can be to where the information is out there, exactly what Alice was saying. If the SLT, they have these in-depth discussions, sorry, they should have these in-depth discussions about what goes on in their school. These comprehensive educational plans need to have more information on there. We can talk about the District 3 proposals. I was one of the parent activists that helped that Riverside Makers School, RSMAPulled up their comprehensive educational plan.
There are tables and charts related to their Title I funding that are completely blank. People's names on that comprehensive educational plan that have not worked in that school for years. Yeah. These are things that need to be corrected at every level, and this engagement needs to not only happen with parents, school administration, we need to empower our district superintendents, and make sure people are actually reviewing these comprehensive educational plans, and they're
being filled out correctly, and there's true parent involvement, and not just SLTs and function only. And that's checking these boxes. And again, we have parent leaders at the CEC that want to get involved and get in there and do things. But, I remember when I first got elected to CEC back in 2021, I had principals that wouldn't let me in their school. Wouldn't respond to an email. And that's probably why I'm now known as the Pop-up Queen, because I just started popping up on people. And that's really what helped make the change. But it's a lot of hard work. And when you have parent leaders that are
dismissed, disparaged, and ignored, that chips away at you. And so these are things that need to be brought to light. I'm thankful that Chancellor Samuel said he's going to work on parent engagement, but we can't- Yeah ... do that in name only. We have to keep it real. And we know, district superintendents know, principals know, who is doing a good job and who's not. And, we can't be the only ones bringing them to task. Sometimes you need to hear it from a peer. Peers can share best practices. But again, I shouldn't, as a stranger in Queens, look at another school's comprehensive education
plan and see blank tables when it comes to Title I funding and engagement. And then also, just to be honest, see template language that is being used. Your school is your school, and there shouldn't be comments that are identical to another school in another borough. Mm-hmm. I get it. Sharing words and using templates helps get things through, but expand. Talk about your school in particular. Yes, some language can be used over and over again, but not at certain levels. These things really need to be reviewed
and done holistically with the school leadership team as partners, and that's not happening everywhere. Yep. Whitney, I was looking for the reaction button on my computer to give thumbs up to what you were saying. I agree 100%. Well, I would say that with this particular chancellor, being that when he was superintendent of District 13, we were very much cultivating a lot of the things that you just mentioned, Ms. Toussaint, and it was working. We were on the pathway of building parent involvement. But it did go with auditing
schools that had SLTs that were not in compliance. Mine was one of them. I'll tell you a short story. So a short story. During COVID, Google had reached out to my wife and was like, "What does your school need?" And she was like, "They need computers, and they need MiFis." And she was like, "Well, I'll give you the email address of the principal of my school, and you can reach out to him." Well, they did, but they didn't get a response for three weeks. Now, at this point in time, these kids were
already remotely connect-- They were already at home because everyone had to stay in place, so there was no instruction happening. But because she did not get in touch with Google over that period, because they needed a number. How many computers you needing? So, the back and forth went, we were still not getting a response, so we had to go over her to get to Kamau. So we went to Kamau. Kamau was like, "I'll contact them, and we'll get the computers out." Now, I understand you had the vendors and all that other stuff, but this particular school did not have those
resources. So those students got the computers, not just at this school, but other students at other schools within the district, and that was due to the fact that Kamau took it upon himself to make that happen. Now, and there was a lot more other things that needed to happen. I couldn't get to the PTA account because as a PTA president, I was being iced out by the parent coordinator and then all the other individuals that kind of wanted me not to have any oversight
or fidelity over the PTA funds. We had to contact the superintendent. Not the principal, the superintendent. Who made that happen. I got stories on top of stories to where Kamau has intervened on behalf of parent leaders, and it has worked. Now, I'm not calling him a savior because I disagree with him on some things, but part of disagreement allows us to push forward and do a lot of productive things. So what I'm saying is that you have the leadership in place to where we can actually start making sure that these parent
organizations are in compliance. There should be no reason why, if SLT is asking the school for a budget and that principal cannot provide the budget, you're out of complianceWe had a principal trying to veto the decisions that we were making in the SLT. I'm telling you. And so I'm just letting you know that it's much easier to tell parents to volunteer their time at PTAs and SLTs, but when they're having to go through these type of obstacles within their own schools, and primarily these
happen within very marginalized schools, Title 1 schools, they happen. And so it really causes fatigue, and this is what drives parents not to want to volunteer. Now, you might have that one parent that's relentless, that's going to stay involved no matter what, but the rest of them are like, "I don't have time. I have dinner to make. I can't make it to the meeting." And that's due to a lot of the obstacles that they're facing within these schools. So I think we have the right leadership in place, and I think what Ms. Toussaint just mentioned is
dead on, that we do need to make sure that we zero in on these schools where their parent organizations are not functioning. And it's not because they don't want to volunteer, it's because they're not getting the support. And I am a clear example of understanding that. So I think once we get them the support, then we'll see a lot more involvement with our parents, that they'll be able to not navigate, but really break through these obstacles. Thank you for sharing that. It is 7:50, and unfortunately,
I'm going to have to leave soon because I have a kid interview in 10 minutes. I would like for us to all meet, maybe informally, I'm not sure how that could work, just to go through this a little bit more before June. Maybe we can just have a smaller meeting within the next two weeks. I'm going to finish the outline based on our conversation today. I also added this little bit here, based on what we were talking about at the end there. If our families are fighting for basic equity, like just access to SLT even, how can they also be expected to
mount these campaigns that are required, like we saw Mr. Gidron do, and like we saw very recently, the ladies in Manhattan at Center School, et cetera, do. How can they be expected to mount those campaigns to save their schools from being closed when they're already also fighting for this basic equity? Thank you all. Please expect an email from me, probably tomorrow. I will be exhausted at 10:00. And I will see you soon. Thank you all for being here. Yeah, that's it. All right. Thanks, guys. Good night, everyone. Bye. Good night.