Awesome. >> I would like to call this meeting of the Naraganset Regional School District School Committee multi-board meeting to order. Um, and we will go around. So, you should have hands as well. >> All right. Um, I am Jack Mackenberg, chair of the Templeton Advisory
Committee, and I call this meeting to order. >> Jeffrey, man, chair select board. >> And you call this meeting to order, Jeff? >> We don't really have to because we're not here to vote on anything. >> Um, >> we're just free to attend any meeting
uh of any other board or committee. Uh, we're not here to vote on anything. uh we're just here to have a presentation. >> A quorum is present and so because quorum is present then uh we we historically have always called the
meeting to order for each floor that um so if you're not comfortable with that then that's fine if you move along but um that's how historically we've managed the meeting. >> If it'll make you feel more comfortable I'll select more meeting once but thank you. All right. Thanks RS for the
pledge. United States of America to the same one nation of all of liberty and justice for all. As a reminder, this meeting is being uh
livereamed and recorded um and it's accessible on YouTube live and will be made available to Templeton and Philipston Cable Access TV following the meeting. Um as an additional reminder to everyone who's here, um for whatever reason, uh when folks are watching the
meeting live, they've been writing in to say that they can't hear us very well. So, use your best projected um drama voices. Speak to the back of the room um during the course of the meeting to make sure that everybody can hear us clearly. The recording, however, is fine. So, we're not sure what why
there's the discrepancy in experiences, but if you could all humor me and use your loudest, most projected voice, that would be appreciated. Clearly, I don't have any problems with that. Um okay
our next uh point of order is um or next item on our agenda is the introduction of boards and members present. Um so I will just say who I am my role and the board that I'm on and we can go around. Um so Jennifer Smith chair of Naragans Regional School District School
Committee. >> Uh Heather Nimsura Templeton member of the school committee. >> Sylvia Gayy representing Philipson on the school committee. at Mason School Committee. >> Sean Casease representing Templeton School Committee.
>> Jaclyn Mackham, chair of the Templeton Advisory Committee. >> No Francis, clerk of the Templeton Advisory Committee. >> Liz To, vice chair of the Templeton Advisory Committee. >> Candace Graves, vice chair of Templeton Select Board.
>> Tim to clerk, Templeton Select Board. Robert May, member, Templeton Select Board. Jeff Bennett, chair of town select board. >> James Ryan, town administrator, town of T. >> Timothy Haley, member of the Philips and
Finance Committee. >> Uh Chris Cask, superintendent of schools inter secretary school. >> All right. Um so thank you everyone and welcome this evening. I really appreciate the time um to spend here together. I know
that it's you know yet another meeting on everybody's calendars but I think do think it's important for us to collect and gather together and have these important discussions. Um so the first item on our agenda for this evening um is FY26 budget updates. Just a quick gut
check on how things are going for this current fiscal year. Um well, as James is aware, health insurance is projected to go up very high for FY27,
but on June 30th, 2025, there was a deficit that the district had of over a million dollars. Mass strategic has been telling us there's refunds coming in, there's rebates on all the spot loss, and every time we ask we owe, there is
no answer. Well, there is now an answer and it is half a million dollars um by June 30th. So, not quite sure how we're funding the whole thing. Um but hoping that school committee will consider using some of our END that we
have certified right now. Any other updates from any other boards? Um so next on our agenda is just budget process and timeline. So this is just a reminder for folks of meetings that have been posted since the summer um that the
school committee is scheduled for um budget approvals. We do have our preliminary budget hearing on March 5th, 2026 at 5:30 in the KA. Um, and then our core budget hearings on March 19th, 2026 at 5:30 p.m. Also, keep up.
>> So, moving right along to uh Naransson School District budget outlook for FY27. >> Okay, the events. Okay. So, going into um obviously 27, I
just again I I know that many of you have heard these type of definitions and things before, but for the um audience who would be watching this online and others who don't know, but we are in held harmless or hold harmless. Um just
as a reminder um MGL chapter 70 whole time harm supervision in Massachusetts ensures that school districts do not receive less state aid than the previous year even if student will decline. So as everyone knows is that um the chapter 78 budget is mainly um predicated on how
many students that we have yearover-year. We have actually seen increases um three out of the last five years. Um this was a year that we did not see an increase in students. So we are technically inh
held harmless. We are we were 58 students less than uh last FY. Um we saw a decrease of about 30 34 kindergarten students over last year. So 30 of those
58 were um well we don't know if they were kindergarters but we saw a uh normally small kindergarten class as as we speak right now we have kindergarten registration going on not prek and k going on right now down at
uh census tells us that there are 96ish uh you know kaged students out there and that fits more with the projections that we have seen in previous years. What will it what will it bear? We'll see. But that's about the number that we that
we're used to seeing in the census prior. So, we'll have to see. Um so, we do think at at least at this point that it was a one-off year. Um but and we do believe that it'd be back on track, but we'll figure it out. Just as a quick a couple quick um side notes, 229
districts were held harmless this year. That's a little over 80%. Um that's a lot. So just you know every year districts are held harmless. They're generally small towns, small regionals, especially US West. Absolutely. Um although we have bucked the trend of
that last 5 years uh 69 regional districts were held harmless as it shows. This time many urban districts were held harmless for the first time. You know, I'm not wishing, you know, ill titans on anyone, but we have a feeling
that because some of the larger urban districts have seen are going through the pains of health harmless, somebody might actually start doing something about it because they are used they are very used to uh large sums of money coming in because we remember the which
we'll get to those multipliers, right? ELLL, special education, and a low income are multipliers, right, for chapter 70. So when when you do not hit the number, it's going to drastically affect, you know, um obviously your
chapter 70 budget. So we'll more more to come on that. Um this is the last year of student opportunity act increases. Governor Baker a little bit before COVID was a seven-year, you know, uh roll out. It actually ended up being eight because
they paused it one year. So actually we've benefited from from this in those years that we did see an increase in students quite frankly uh backtoback years about four years ago. So that's just kind of really an update um in terms of FY27.
So I know that everyone is used to seeing this um the sheet this is the chapter 70 uh foundation budget sheet just as a reminder foundation enrollment and if it's too small I I I can't but u foundation enrollment is every
schoolaged student who lives in Philips or Ton who go to a public school anywhere in Massachusetts. So if you have Johnny who goes to Gardener cuz he's school choice we receive
give or take right the foundation amount minus $5,000. Okay. So this is not in seat. This is how many school age students um that are living in both towns who are going to public school. So what does it not apply? What does it not count? Home school, private school um
and uh private um not private yeah private charter school. Okay. All right. So, we we've already talked about that we saw a decrease and we did. All right. So, uh our foundation enrollment is 1,289 going into FY27. It's closer. Um some of
the notable points that I think are are very interesting. The uh the red circle in the lower left, it shows us to have a low income group of seven. That is a percentage. It's based on percentage. And this year, uh, we're 38.89.
Uh, we we dropped lowincome students by 3.42%. That's a lot. It it it that's a lot. That's a big jump. Generally, wherever you are, generally, whatever whatever group you're in, you kind of hover in like you're in between lots of times.
But to drop by 3% was actually striking. and speaking with some of our local districts around here, they drop as well. Why we think that um since there's free lunch, free lunch program um and also
that to identify lowinccome students, it's only through the SNAP process, you know, you could do the forms, but generally it's you're not going to people are not going to do the forms if they're already getting free lunchtime. We think that's what it is. Uh but we don't have a real solid answer to that.
But for us, that's a pretty big draw. And so what does it do? It it does, right? They're one of the multipliers. So we don't want more low-inccome students. That's we're not pining for them. But when those when those drop it does affect um the formula affects, you
know, how much money we circle in green vocational, right? Chapter 74. But vocationally see a grand total of roughly $216,000 and that's to support the V uh the the VIP program that goes to Mont Tech.
There are 12 students, right? Six juniors, six seniors. Um and that's they are calculated at the vocational rate. So what do we do is we turn around and we give Monty Tech roughly $6,700 per student, right? And that's the
vocational side of things and we keep the educational portion of those monies. Here's the problem. When you're held harmless, okay, it's not really more. All right? So, to put it simply that whether that number was there or not, we would still
receive the same chapter 7 if you all. So, really, it's really part of our dates if you think of it another way. So I know that you know back um back several years probably my first or second year here we had a pseudo vocational program here um and um it was
what was the actual merit horiculture and we were economist well when I was looking at this to prepare for the first or second budget cycle it it didn't add up it it just literally did not add up I called the department of ed yeah you're you're too far held to harm so we're not
going to give you those okay we show it but we're not going to give it. We're not going to give you more than you're supposed to get. So, yeah, lessons learned, you know, and I just want to keep a board. Thankfully, I had some experience around it to to uh you know, to figure some things out. So, um when
people ask, well, okay, what are you getting per student? And so, to the lower right when when all the math is done, that's $15,592. That's the foundational budget permanent. So, the next is really the summary page. By the way, this is all in the
department of ed on the preliminary um chapter 70. It's all up there. Uh if you interested, you click on the um it's called the complete workbook and you can get all kinds of information. But just as a as a point, you see that you know our our enrollment as as I said is down
58 students. Um and you see that the chapter 78 um is $96,000. Well, how did we get that? is that I'd say about five or six years ago they started to um give a certain dollar amount per student that
you had in your district. For a while it was $25 then it was you know it's 50 and then they they've they sometimes think about a h 100red but then they lower it. So right now if we were to get $75 per student that we have right um for in terms of foundation we that equals to
about $96,000 which you know in the grand scheme of things you know it's it's money but it's it's certainly not to put in perspective last year we were 17 kids above the year before that we received 520
$561,000 in chapter 78 right so that just tells you that you this held harmless is devastating. We were just 17 kids above the year before that. We received a half a million dollars. Now we're 58 and of course we're not going to get any. Right. So that's why this
health harmless is really, you know, it's it's devastating. Okay. Any questions about that? Because I see I saw all those looks go. Oh my god. Right. >> So something that you can just be seeing um a lot is the number of enrolled
students. That is the number of students that we have but in seat that's the orange um uh blue I guess blue um is foundation right we talked about foundation enrolled is how many kids we have here whether they be school choice or they be resident we sort of pretty
well I'll show the climate enrollment that's the only seen on that are enroll this as we've talked about at nauseium we have seen a steady increase or certainly an increase about that since FY21 um
school choice. So I think it was two years ago, no it was 3 years ago, we we or more probably we calculated when we thought we would run out of school choice. If you remember, this was something we presented. Um, and because of all the factors that we're
going to talk about, we talked about last year and this year, that is probably probably we're about two years ahead of schedule, quite frankly. So, the good news is that we start another decline in school choice out. That's great, right? That means they like the
place. It also cost, you know, it's not costing us as much money as the year before or or at least supposedly. And but the bad news is that we now only take in only take in 110 students. So that differential is 35. That is not
that is that is too close. So we we talked about last year somebody asked point blank what would be the what your where would the ideal um differential be? It's around 80 85 students give or take. Uh, so we're getting close to
that. Um, by the way, this is if we wanted to fill the place, we could. We talked about that as well. Um, it's it's not a matter of people not wanting to come. We just are very very very specific on where we place the kids because, you know, seats basically.
>> So, what are our challenges? Well, the fixed cost, which we're going to go into great depth here, um is the rising health insurance costs, which we'll talk about a lot, uh you know, increased need of specialized service, special education has gone up, um with
transportation and special education in needs. It is probably our number one driver when you look at just pure just dollars, which we'll which we'll get to. Um the Boneville apartments, look, I'm not putting any numbers to this. I refuse. I really do. like, "Well, honey,
I'm not going to be the one that says I'm I'm not going to say a number." And they go, "See, you were either right or you whatever it is, it is whatever the number is is going to be." What we understand, thank you, James, for working this out because we don't we don't know cuz we'd love to know, we
need to know is that if they come in off after October 1, we get no money for them. So, we went back talking about foundation enrollment, right? 15,000 change per student. They come in after October one, we don't pick that money up until the following FY. Okay, that's a
problem. It's problem one. Problem two is I joke because it was third class or song class. We had an incredible amount of fourth graders. I don't know what happened that year, but it was just we
were just our large still our largest class in this in this district. It was it was unbelievable how many fourth graders that are by the way residents mind you >> now seventh graders >> now seventh graders okay so however they come in I don't know are they going to be elementary are they going to be we
don't know but that could pose an issue depending on the number of total students obviously and where they may kind of group held harmless we talked all about that that's a that's obviously a challenge it's going to be a challenge um and school choice yeah we have
decreased the numbers over the last five years. We need to we need to replace people go how do you do it? We replace the number of graduating you know students who have great try to do that school choice and we try to replace the number of school choice students who go to Mont right so they're here I always
pick on gardener he's a good friend of mine so we have a school choice student here from gardener he uh puts in for you know he wants to go to Monty Tech and he does okay so he goes to Monty Tech they paid the Mont Tech bill of course we don't pay that because he's a school choice student I try to replace him with
another school choice student somewhere in the district right we try you try to stay balanced, but it's hard because the younger grades are are are pretty full. Um, the salary of nine teachers, u, so you you hear this every year. The one thing that I I do defer I I take we
take full responsibility for everything is the day you get here, it's yours. But there were nine teachers placed in school choice back in 2011. I can tell you right now that that would that is just and by the way, insurance, but we got insurance out. Thank God
given these these choices having nine having nine teachers pardon me in school choice is is not it well it's just not a smart move I I'll be very candid that is a challenge and as our if these lines start to come together that is our next
biggest kind of that's our next project that's our next biggest issue the way we see it because that can go upside down um and of course what we use school choice monies for we generally buy all this we many supplies we new athletic supplies, curriculum PD, so that way it
doesn't come back, you know, as something of a cost of the towns. >> Okay, bucket drivers. Um, so just going back to kind of the beginning, right, is that we look at, you know, these things very differently. This is just the
monies of it. And some of this is just I've been doing this I think it's 15 or 18 no more than that now 20 years in terms of business manager of course superintendent I've never seen this high of a number in fixed costs in my I I haven't I I worked
in a bigger district prior to $1.5 million in fixed costs meaning cost that we really don't have any control over. I I'll get to how we try to, but when you look at some of these numbers, our employee health insurance of almost a half a million dollars for a district this size. Now, we're we're we're small
in comparison, but that is a huge number when you start looking at you add them up. Sped out of district tuition again went up, but I I forget the percentage, but went up substantially. sped transportation. Um, that is a that's a that's a very large number and that's
something that is just keeps growing and growing and generally need some type of staff support. Not not always, but at times school choice out tuition. Well, I know someone in here is going to say, "Wait a minute, Cass fan. When I do the math, it doesn't come out. When I take
as many uh school choice out kids and I multiply that by, you know, 5,000 bucks, that's not what the number is." Someone's going to say that and I'm going to say to you right back, but don't forget if they're a special needs student outpaced school choice out that
a portion of those costs are built back bill back to the uh to the district through circuit breaker. Okay. So, when we look at the school choice um sending report, right, it'll say little Chris Cassman lives in Winston, he's in fourth
grade and you'll see 5,500 bucks, right, for school choice. But then there's what's called a spent increment. And it might, who knows? I it could be whatever. It could be literally $6,000. It could be $36,000. It could be $500. It is whatever the circuit breaker
system that people are um trying to get relief for. So that's why these numbers don't exactly calculate. Um and also your v um when uh students school choice out to the um virtual schools that rate is higher also. Okay. And I and off the
top of my head, I can't remember what the rate is, but it's hard voc um the uh virtual thank you the virtual schools lost at Verina. Um so when I look at the other numbers, we just look at GIC retirement assessment, they go well that's a lot of money that might actually get higher. The GIC is meeting
I think on the >> February 12th and those rates could in most and some of the experts think they are going to go up. So when they go up, right, everything is based on the GIC. you can't surpass it, you know, in terms of what they offer, but you can, you know, so if those go up,
that that could absolutely be a problem. Um, and and just, you know, as an aside, when you look at the uh the UFCW retirey health insurance that No, is that the 60%. Correct, Henry?
>> Yes. 63% went up. their their cost the cost of it supplements 63% for the uh for the retirees that is just unheard of. I really do believe that. Um so in all toll you're looking at a just hard costs you know
and what do we do to try to mitigate that? Well we're doing everything with insurance. We're trying to figure out do we do this? Do we do that? Working with you know maybe get into a another group. We we're we're working hard on that. the special education uh you know portion of
these fixed costs. We don't have a multitude of programs here. We don't have you know a lot of programs but we are very specifically targeting programs to keep these as many kids as we can in the district. Right? So you've heard me talk about five in the high school
before talking about that. Um, we're going to have to look at something down at the elementary school because we are seeing students, they're just, you know, right now they're just not meeting success within the public sector, the public schools. And so, um, we need to
create um, some opportunities that if, you know, those kiddos can um, to modify, you know, their their educational um, environment. So, oops, oh, something. So, okay. Okay. So when we start looking at what you know the chart of accounts um of how we
again everything is individual account post um when we start talking about what the minimal increase is here we start talking about like okay what is what is each section going to you know what um what account looks you know what it's
really over it's all over I mean tuition and others that's 35.96 that's out of district school choice charter that's a Uh that's I don't know that we've had an increase that high. I could check, but I don't know that we've had that that high in such a long time.
Um again, you can see what the increases are and in general what accounts they cover. Um when you say debt, oh my god, what do you mean? Uh that's actually for the roof, right? Initially, we have to pick up the um the short-term of interest for that. So, we have to add
that into our expenditure sheets there. And so you can look at this increase decrease of, you know, a $3.2 million. You know, I'm rounding. I'd like to round down, but I I I'm not. That's what it looks like to um an increase um from
year over year. Um just as an aside, we talked about the insurance. So, we uh last year the school committee voted we received a $400,000 um return from our old um insurance
group um for claims that you know that they they held through it. They they didn't need to be paid. So, we put that towards END. We had $800,000 in essence ready to go towards the the budget, right? So because we generally whatever we have at E and D we've put
towards whatever budget um season that is budget year the school committee is going to you know either at the next meeting I'm going to have to make the decision to take at least you know we recommend um >> at least 300,000 of that um to to
satisfy really um the insurance group. So because we do need to pay well you guys know come we've had this conversation already so you're very aware like the we have the same we have the same folks right so um we're in the same boat um people say well how did that happen you know we've had large
claims this year people get sick care there's no other way to put it and that's that's how it goes and that's and that's that's what has driven um these I think for everybody okay Never in a day have you ever seen
uh a not possible for towns sticker or whatever you want to call that obviously. So never because when we just calculate out at a 2 and 1/2 or what we call a minimum uh you know 2 and 1/2 for uh well that's not sorry just for level
service. Thank you. Um you're looking at these numbers are just they're just ridiculous. Okay. And and so we know that. So obviously given all of that it was just not possible >> right and I think of course you'll have
all this information too. Um when we took what we call the the minimum increase which is 2 and a half u for ends up being 487 for Philips and how it all works out. um you know, you're
talking about a a cuts that would I'm going to get into in a minute here, but this that would just not be possible for the district um at all. Um and I'm going to go into that more, you know, in this next couple slides here. So before you go, I just want to make sure everybody
follow that because really we were trying to figure out brainstorming about like what budget do we presented this meeting because usually historically we've had some idea of here's the budget we're recommending to the tasks and so I want to set the
preface before we go into these next slides. This is a little bit of a different presentation for us because we are sitting here and we are recognizing that that level service budget is not a feasible plan for anyone. And yet we also need to communicate very clearly
that the minimal budget increase um is not feasible for the district. It it would effectively shut us down. Um, and so we need to work I would have agree very closely with you on how do we
find our path to something that sits in between those two numbers, but we want to be working in something that is real because we're talking about, you know, we're not talking about cutting, you know, a couple hundred,000 here. We're
talking about massive amounts of money. And when we talk about things that are, you know, close to a million dollars, whatever, we need to be really certain of what that amount is so that we can be working towards it effectively with
minimal impact to students, making sure that we're stacked appropriately for all of these new factors that are coming in to hit us next year, etc., etc. So, that's why you're going to see, that's why we've shown you, hey, we're recognizing level service. We can't do
it. We know that, but we're also want to very transparently communicate to you that we absolutely can't do the minimum either. So, we need we need some collaboration to figure out what what does something what does this look like together in consideration of all the
other demands on our T on our member tax. >> So, we I don't Okay, thank you. So we what we did we just didn't want to leave it completely kind of like well that's that's that's all I got for it you know
um we we did a little we did an exercise of like okay so the entire clean in the entire district the average salary is 71,950 average salary problem
um if you were to be able to do it in a way where that was the number you were looking to cut although it does not add that. It does not add up that way. You'd have over 34 uh staff cuts to balance the budget, right? What you know, what we know is that that's not how it
happens, right? People bump, right? That's this is a union shop, you know? So, it's, you know, somebody making 40 70 whatever whatever it might be. And so, you're really talking about anywhere between 40 50. I don't know. It'd be almost it'd be almost impossible to figure out. You'd have to figure out the
bumps and all that. And you just there just wouldn't be enough. there wouldn't be enough adults to either supervise or teach students, right? That's that's what we know. So, we gave Oh, sorry, James. >> And I just want to make a point, too. Plus, plus in a in a scenario when you
had mass layoffs, we also then need to subtract the unemployment cost savings. >> Yeah, >> absolutely. >> And we really we didn't go that far, although we'd have to in the, you know, in the final. Absolutely. So, so that's,
you know, so there, so there's that. Um, you know, the considerations of course are all the things that everyone here considers, right? Degree of impact instruction, district strategic plan goals, reduce the larger, but but if there was a number that this is what it would take. Um,
sorry. So, I threw a slide here. Uh, I think this is one one of the few holdover slides. People liked it. I This is the feedback I received. Um it just shows you know where how many of of who
um where they're um funded and you know how so to speak. So when you do the math, it's nine less than it was the year before. Um cuz that's, you know, what it took among other things to uh to
get to the 8.84 that we cut last year mostly for the middle school to be quite frank is that's where that's that's where we had the um ability or it was just I don't see the easiest, but it was most available to do that. Um and again, I put that in here because people like
it's transparent. his strings and it actually generated a lot of questions like well what about cafe you know it did so I I put that up there um you know that's that's what it is um so what we do so when this happens
inevitably I receive either Facebook messages which are really cool or um um or um you know texts or emails or or whatever and I say well Chris the reason why this is all happening is you have some of the highest paid teachers now literally people have said you some of
the highest paid teachers and you know administrators. I'll get to administrators in a minute. So I wanted to show what you know because this is this year by the way. This isn't like last year or anything like that. This is in real time. And so we I collected there's 11 districts up there but 10
districts that we either um are neighbors to or when I say do business that means we do staff to them or they're about the same size. Right? So there they are. Um and and so when you look at it no matter how and I don't know how familiar folks are with
you know the teacher salary scale there are lanes and there I mean probably steps and there are lanes and all of that. So what I just to keep it simple is I said to okay here's the lowest step right for bachelors although bachelors nowadays you've only got five years to get off the bachelors and get your
masters um and then you have to get your masters within 5 years that's how it goes because you have to be highly qualified within 5 years so they're not there long to be very kid um and well what do you do if somebody's been here a long time well they're grandfathered they're somewhere on the bachelor's you
know scale but anyone who's come in over the last I don't know you know and form. I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, you've you they have they've only got a certain amount of time. So, I went with lowest step. I went with step fives that represents fairly the middle, right? And I went with the highest step on
bachelors, which I got to tell you that not a lot of people look at that because they're not going to be there longer. They can't be there. That's the best way to put it. The master schedule, right? Masters again is where everyone is generates their attention because they're looking at what it's going to be
in X. So, When you look at that, you know, we're seven out of 10, you know, in terms of the lowest step on the masses. Step five, you know, we hold, you know, we're holding um and uh the highest step we're the lowest. So the
feedback is that you know in general we we it's it's been very hard to attract teachers which we'll talk about that as long as this um but it's it's harder now to keep them because they'll come on board
and they'll leave. Now back five years ago if you got a teacher over three years Yeah. because they had tenure and no one was going to leave if they had tenure. Don't no one was or something, you know, some life circumstance because you didn't want to
go back down to the bottom of the pecking order if something should happen. Okay, just everyone, you know, knew this. Well, education has changed and so not a lot of the pipeline is not as full as it used to be. So everyone
knows people are very fluid and they are moving and they will move and they will you know burden hand us which we never used to have before honestly you know like oh my god I'm so excited to work here oh my god I'm so excited you know 3 days before school opens I'm going to
work in Richmond you know what I mean and stuff like burning so so we we used to have we have a lot more of that now people can do those type of things because and people can just up and leave and when I say leave I mean people within five six seven eight years of experience. We we need them. We need
those people. They've been experienced. They've been doing it a while. And so, okay, so this is what they look at when, you know, uh when they're looking and they're kind of hitting the tires here in Argansit. Um as an example, over the last two budget, uh not budget, pardon
me. Um contract negotiation cycles, we've been able to make up some we've been able to make up some grant. We were traditionally uh if you in you know in contract um cycle you know talk 6 years
ago roughly 5 years ago we were easily 8 9 8 9 everywhere 8 9 8 9 8 9 8 9 whatever and because it always kind of goes like this cuz somebody else gets another contract and go like this but we we've never really been over eight um ever um and so we're holding steady
there so we're at least in the ballpark so if you look at mentioned in you know we're at 572 two I'm looking at Masters I'm sorry folks um you know lowest you know look Winchin is at 57 two and you know 70 some odd bucks you know less you got got a royal you know we're just you
know maybe 100 bucks behind them so so you see I'm saying so now we're look now we can say look we're better cuz we you know we are we like to think that anyway we have a good thing going well seven $70 to difference yeah I definitely want to be so now we're able to kind of you
know keep keep our All right. Next always comes administration. Administration. So you know when I Oh, I always do that. Don't I get this slide again? My fault. So this is my master by high step. I'm sorry I forgot but there
was two slides here and I accident. Um so you know that's to kind of give you a closeup. That's your master's highest step. That's where folks are looking. Um we have 11 11 steps at this point. I think it's 11 to 12. Um, we
have, yeah, regular steps. Um, 11. So, we have fewer steps. Okay, that's good. That's good in a way, but all the other not all >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This row and everybody else has more. Yeah. You got to do some more years, but there's now there's
still room for growth, right? So, they're looking at that going, "Well, I could go to gardener. They got 15 steps, right? And that's that's going to get me more." Right? So again, that's I'm just I just I throw that out there so you know you're more familiar with but this
is what folks are looking at when they are refining they're coming in. >> Okay. So my spiel on administration is this always Chris you talk to them. You talk to them my when people actually ask me that face
to face I say wait I I just I'm not arguing with them. I just want to know where they think that we are topheavy. Seriously. So they say you have more administrators than anyone. And so I go, well, I don't think so, but it depends on who you're talking about. So the last
couple years, I think I just posted I'm going to show you salaries here in a second because eventually that's the next question. But here is um what we upload to Desi when we do our um EPIMs reporting. Okay. So I just want to show
you. So there's there's the superintendent. There's the assistant superintendent. you you need a business administrator. You've got uh we have an athletics director dean which does behavior between the middle and high school for both. We have a facilities director of three. He's one of three for
both of obviously for all the buildings. Food service director um special ed director and of course we have a principal and vice principal for each of the three schools. Okay. So roughly 700 kids about this end you know and you've got five almost you know
almost six down at the elementary. So in terms of like extra I so I I I put that out there. I say well um we are literally just kind of doing what everyone else is doing and and sometimes with with less and I'll talk about that in a little bit. So salaries every two
years every two years I do a administrative salary you know survey. So I call the superintendents around. I go, can I have your admin salary? Why are you doing? So I I do it every two years and it's good and they actually like it too because they can actually
use. So what I've done now now look I did not do every I do not have the food service director. Why a lot of districts don't have them? Because they're in Chartwells, right? They have a they they've outsourced. We've actually talked to Chartwell said, "Charles, would you come in here and see if you'd like to, you know, manage us?" And
they're like, "You're too small." So, I didn't put the facilities director up there because it just some of these things just don't really match up. But in any event, what I have done is put, you know, the the main players up here. And I did all the districts that we that
we are neighbors to, right? So, Ganset, Garner, Plin, Ash West, Winon, Athol, and Monty Tech. The green is the average, right? There's always a problem with averages. So, no, I don't like averages, but I put it up there because people seem to feel comfortable with
that. Median is where we need to go, right, Mr. Case? In terms of math, median is the way to go. I know we talked about that a lot. We are either, you know, we we are under both. So, when you look at these and you look at it, we're not in all not all categories. I
believe our tech director makes more than the tech directors around. He's also been doing it for 20 years. But the fact is that the the average we are below average or the median in every one of these um in these categories. This isn't a wo is me at all. What I'm trying
to do is not really get out ahead. I'm just look people may not like the fact that Civate makes $187,000. They may hate that idea. >> He James hates that idea. You know, you know, I I don't want to talk about I don't want to bring anybody out. You
know, the fact of the matter is that there have been 15 superintendents all told in all those districts that have been here 10 years and the most senior senior I guess superintendent I guess um almost out past Littleton. There is no
one big circle who's been a superintendent longer than me for quite a distance. I have all lived let's see three superintendents, three quad superintendents, three Nash West. I don't know how many widgets in. You'd have to tell me, but it's a lot. I'm not
no shame. There's been a lot. I don't know. I don't know. And uh I think three Monty Tech, right? Um and oh, and a probably five or six. The point is that I'm not sitting here complaining. It's just I we know our place there that has to be factored in as well. So when we
hire people, obviously they look at the they may not have this right readily available, but they talk. So when building principles or sensor principles or whatever they they know what average is or median I hope and and so that's what they're looking. All right. So I I want to put this out there and give it
to the world. I've done this by the way three or four times. I I don't know how many times now but it always comes up. It always comes up. So here it is. And fact check it. You know do whatever you got to do. But that's where people are sitting
halfway. It's impossible for the district. We had a we didn't notice there isn't 300 slides. Generally, we do have 300 slides because anytime anyone of you have asked a question and we've presented it, we've done a slide. We keep it updated and
it's hidden because at some point somebody remember that time I asked you okay we go find go find a slide from 1985. So anybody and that's what I go to. Um so like this
last slide though was the hardest to make. Well the last slide was the hardest to make and it's what is possible for the district. Like I wasn't going to like you know just just you jazz hands and all whatever it's going to take. We don't know because we're,
this is the first time that I, you know, I say I don't, you know, what does it look like and how how are they going to literally just staff the teachers that I need um, you know, in front of those kids straight up. We've already said that level service isn't going to work. We said that. I don't know what people are going to think about that, but it is
what it is. We're not we're not fools. We we understand what those numbers mean. Um, what I'm saying is that what what's really happened and I'll keep saying it till my last day here. It would have all worked when we closed and we moved the kids over for, you know, from Philips and we cut all the teachers
because population was going down. The the uh the report that was done to build the school, it had that, you know, projection and it it this little line was going CO happened. We we had blown that projection out of the water by two 300 kids easily. So, I worry about that.
I do because we have a lot more resident kids in this district than we did say six, seven years ago by far. That that's easy to, you know, to show. I have I have the Ballinville Elementary, you know, apartments, which I'm not going to assign a number. I worry about that. Um,
but it is what it is cuz anybody can move in. We I just want to know. We want to know what is possible for the district. We want to be part of the plan. I said that last year and I mean I do. This isn't This can't be confrontational. James and I talked about this yesterday at at, you know, at
Nauseium yesterday. Like, look, we're going to have to work together regardless. It's not going to be pretty at all. It's obvious, right? Obvious. We I just don't want to, you know, I don't want to go back there. And for those of you who've been here long enough know exactly what I'm talking about. And so, that's what I'm looking for is what is
possible for the district and how and where we go from here. And I just want to I just want to add in that one of the things we're really we're really in consideration of is we've seen um the performance of students in our schools significantly
improving over the last few years as you know Templeton and Philips have invested in the district and that is something that we're really really proud of and something we feel very protective of um because ensuring that students are set up for success is the core reason uh
we're all sitting around these tables. Um and so we know that we're going to have to figure out ways to mitigate the impact of whatever this budget scenario looks like on those students. And yet we also want to make sure that everybody knows that's something we're both proud
of because of the investments that were made and also something that we're we're trying to protect as we go into this budget season and we're trying to figure out collaboratively what these numbers need to look at. What light? That's all I got.
Questions. Oh, what the heck? >> Might as well break into it. Um, just off the top of my head and don't have the screens and it's so cool. Um but as we you know we're talking a lot about
basically personnel um payroll um I noticed on slide that you had up with payroll listed in groups that there's an 8.8% increase in cost. Um
yeah, right here second window and for instructional you know and uh the maintenance the only one is like you know 3.98 and administrator is 5.86. So I'm sure your average is you know up there. Um but
that's I'm just wondering how did we get there? Is it added staff or is it um you know added pay for the same staff? >> So they want contributed to the 8 8.8% >> 8.8% increase. Yeah.
>> So combination of everything. So it's not just staff in that line. It's everything instructional. So all your paper, your supplies and um there's no increases to their supply lines.
when they get their raise, it's not just a straight cola percent because they all have steps. So the steps skew when you say, "Oh, they're getting a 2% raise." It's never just 2% because of the steps. So it's always more. There are some of
our paris, we've had to increase paris based on IUP needs this year. I think we've increased six over last year. and our preschool pairs are in our general fund. They were in preschool, but because there's so many kids coming in
on IEPs that come for free, the preschool revolving account cannot cover that. So, it's all of those things. That's the one that does 35% is paid or can be the local under the IEPs for the preschooler.
>> If a child is deemed needing services under an IEP and the preschool services such as speech, physical therapy, whatever, there is no cost to that child. So the district has >> taken from the free or the paid for
person portion of the preschool or whatever. >> So it would be so that's what Amory was saying. So normally, yes, normally that we are able to fund the things that the preschool needs from the from the costs uh to parents for the preschool tuition,
>> right? Except we are now at a point where the IEP needs of the preschool are outpacing the tuition for the preschool as a whole. And so that is that is having to come out of the general fund.
that that is some of that is reflected in this 8 8.8% increase. That's that's not for what 35% of preschool students if I'm not mistaken. The state said it that it's 35%. >> To educate any child in preschool,
>> right? But with the IEPs, they go from the paid for by the parents to the paid for by the general fund. Think that's 35% of the total population? No. When you say 35% of you
talking about the special need students or of this, let's say 72 preschool students. Okay, that's what you're saying. 35% of those that are brought in IEPs go to the general fund when they're put on IEPs rather than in the you know
personal payful. So is that uh you know so it's a cost to the district, right? >> Any any any cost to the special needs at all it's costing the district. Absolutely. Well, you're absolutely correct. So, yes, I think that in the uh
when we're receiving cuz this is it's interesting. We are seeing far more special needs students at the prek level than we ever have. That's that's baron. So, when I say back in the day, you pick a day, you know, back in the day, you
you it wasn't even close. So, you'd have far more kids who were paying in, right, because they wanted prek. So, they'd be paying whatever the tuition is. And because there's a ratio and everyone knows and so that you know you'd have wasn't the ratio is always the same. It's always the same but we're finding
that there are far more kids that we need to service. So that means we're having to create a part-time or or full day or whatever the case is to to uh to give them the services that they need because it's going to cost us double if we have to send them out. Right? Many of the services we can hand we can do that.
Walking services is what we call it, right? speech um OT PT but what's happening is that the level of need or literally on their IEP is we've seen um a spike in a you know
autistic students right so so that's not something that's walk-in service I mean I know that folks know that I mean for most right so it's so it's like now we have to it isn't just walkable so I think I don't know if that answers your question exactly but you're right right the the cost of those kiddos
that whatever that percentage is is against the general fund. What we know is that if I have to educate them out, which I have to fade, very inappropriate education, least restrictive environment, right? Two two of the three major tenants of the federal law, IDA, is that I'm going to have to send them out someplace and and definitely
transport them. I I you know, I know that. So, you know, we we've had a lot of conversations about prek and and yeah, I mean, we're we're we're going to have to do some things differently just in terms of delivering services next year regardless because we have so many
we have so many services to provide. Um, which has not been the case, save the last say 10 years ago, I you know, I'll make up I'll make up a good >> Well, the thing with preschool too is you don't know when kids are turning free >> until they show up. >> Until they show up.
>> Yeah. So could be any day, >> right? >> All year >> you can stop like so you don't have so you know there's there's only so many kiddos you can take right because there's only so many first stop hours in the day there's the ratio whether it's half day full day etc. we haven't hit
the situation in which we we hey we'd have to say no sorry we're full we haven't we haven't had that situation it it could it you know um and again I don't even want to mention it because then at that point we've got to figure out you know seriously now that I've mentioned it um but you know uh so yeah
so then it's like an added cost on top of what we're already doing so it's it's it's uh if if you didn't care about anything else other than money it's it's cheaper to keep get them to to come for services here um as you know as soon as possible. Honestly, it it really is and
you can do that research easily enough looking at the very few programs actually take kiddos who are three and four. There aren't there aren't a lot of them. So, >> yes. Can you explain to me because I've just never understood it how
uh school choice financially benefits the district? >> Yes, I do. >> Because every time I look at it, it's like, isn't it costing us more? >> The It's my I wasn't here. I'm not here. I'm
not. No, no, because I but I'm going to assume that the numbers had to be we you had to keep a healthy budget because of two reoccurring always costs that were going to come out of that out of that line, right? Health insurance, which is we are so lucky we got out of it when we
did cuz we'd already be upside down, right? And those those those staff members. So my point is that that's how it benefits the district. If the staff were out of the out of out of pardon me out of school choice okay then I would say to you that the low really the
weight is all like few right cuz then that that's uh that's more important than almost anything else then it would only benefit only it would benefit the district by purchasing curriculum items and stuff like that we don't have to pass off to the towns it becomes it
becomes unbelievably important to keep that number up because of the staff enough if Yeah. Go ahead. >> Essentially, right? That is not my question. No. No. So, if it costs um the way I look at school choice,
which is probably the wrong way, >> okay? But when I look at school choice, I'm looking at it as the district already has a and I'm just making up numbers here, you know, has a a classroom size with with um resident students of 20, right? And and the
teacher can take on another three students. It's not costing salary, anything else for the district to accept three more students, right? Because it's not costing anymore. But the way it's it's set up right now, you've got these
nine teachers in this other category, right? That is it it doesn't make financial sense to me cuz if we if we only get $5,000 coming in and it costs us what is it? I I have
the number laid down. Uh $15,000 to educate a child. I feel like we're upside down by $10,000 per child we take in. >> So in I'm hopeful to I we are absolutely saying the same thing. If those if those
um those two very I'm going to leave insurance out of it cuz it's gone. It's gone. If those teachers are in there if the teachers are not coming out of that out of that fund you out of uh school choice all you wouldn't need to take any
school choice kids in in essence. I I I don't know how else to explain it, right? >> But but I think I think what give it a try. >> Okay. So So foundationally, school choice conceptually, you're
right. We get less student, we get less money per student that comes into our district, but we do also have to pay money out if a student leaves our district, right? Because school choice is available in many schools in Massachusetts. Um, we were talking in
our last meeting that there's actually schools that sur surround us that have been held harmless for many years who actually have open houses to try to attract students to them. Um, and so we never want to be in a situation where
um, even if we didn't accepted no school choice students into our district, we never want to be in a situation where we're sending lots of where where kids are selecting to go to other schools and we're having to pay lots of money out
without having any any balancing funds coming in. Because if we were to select, if we were to have no school choice students coming in at all, we'd be out of balance with the school choice students choosing to go out.
>> And you can't stop school choice out, >> right? And you can't you have no control over school choice out. Anyone can school choice out if they want to. >> Can I just take a stab at it now? >> Yes, you can. >> It costs us 15,000. We only get 5,000 in.
>> Yeah. Why are we giving away 10 grand? >> That is that is like the perfect answer. And you're absolutely right. Like when you look at it like that, it's absolutely it's not worth it for us to take them in. But we try to offset and how they make us do school choice in my
opinion is ridiculous. They make us take the kids, which is the expense. The ones that are leaving the district, they take the expense and we have to charge the expense of them leaving against the general fund. the revenue that comes in for the kids that we take in has to go
into a revolving of fund >> doesn't. >> So it doesn't like cross. So it's very hard like you try to use your revolving fund money with what's coming in for like those one time things. But like you said, we end up because of those nine
teachers that are left in there. That's why we're still trying to take them in to cover that. But in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make it. But you're not going to stop the expense on the general fund side. So, you're just trying to recoup some funds any way you can by taking them in.
>> Could I add something here, too? If I'm hearing all this correctly, um, if we took all the teachers out and that wasn't the case and all things were equal, it would be better to send kids out and not receive any >> because we get 10,000 bucks for kids to
go teach. >> You definitely argue that. >> Yes. Yes, because you're going to get well well not you have the spending command but overall we're absolutely correct your standard kid going to school choice someplace else was $15,000
okay we just saw that so so you know what yeah we're going to pay out five to wherever give or take and then we're going to keep we're going to keep 10 so absolutely and I guess I was coming from a different thing I think this wasn't wouldn't be such a big deal I wouldn't be chasing this number so drastically if
it wasn't for these nine teachers, you know, that they're being taken out of there. I you know what I mean? But that from my point of view, that's where I was coming from. I was like, I've got you cuz I need them. You know, that I got you. >> Can't can't you just take the hit over one to three years to get everybody out
of there? Because I honestly don't I mean I I understand it's a funding thing and it's where the financials are and everything else. So, can you bring up the the one that shows the the slide that shows the um the the school choice
in and out? >> But I guess in a world where last year we had to cut what eight positions, >> how would we have moved you know you know any of those nine positions? Now what we are doing to be responsible is we try to keep some of
our lower salary all the >> Yeah. It does we don't have to keep the same people there. It's not the same people. it's different salaries. So, we try to keep our lower salaries coming out of there. But in a world where we've been, you know, especially last year, cutting positions or in the world before
that where we critically needed to add positions in order to staff the school appropriately for the number of kids that had come in, there hasn't been an opportunity. We've moved insurance on priority out of there because it was that was an irresponsible cost. We agree
that we want to move out those nine, but the challenge is we haven't we haven't had a moment in like we haven't had a moment where we could do that or that has been an available option for us because in the process of negotiating with our member towns to figure out okay
well how much money can you give us? It's never covered moving a teacher into the general fund. Um now would we love to be in that position this year? Sure. But um that would increase the what 3.2 million level service to even more than
that. So if you took those nine salaries out, we'd be adding even more to that situation. >> I don't see I don't see how you would it. It's a matter if you're just moving money from one fund to another. And maybe I just understand the general is all we're charging you quote unquote,
right? So whatever the general fund is, that's what that's what we're charging our member times, right? 8515 whatever it says. those those nine teachers that we've be talking about sit outside of them, right? So, we're not we're not um we're not obligating the towns again to
pay directly for those nine teachers. It's $800 $800,000 roughly give or take, right? For those teachers. So, because it sets outside of here now for us to move all those teachers in, I'd be saying, "Oh, by the way, I need $800,000 more, right?" You know what I mean? because those teachers are now on the
gem side is now we're charging for funds. >> I'm not using >> I think she's asking if we can move things in the general fund over to school choice. >> No, no, no. I'm saying more move the money from So, but what I'm trying to say is even though you know you're
looking at it from the pers at least I think you're looking at it from the perspective of you know you're not charging the towns for those nine teachers. In essence, you're charging the towns $10,000 per student that is being funded by those nine students by
those nine teach with those nine teachers because it's costing us $10,000 more than what we get in to educate those kids. >> Well, >> so um you know it's like you've got a fund over here, you've got a fund over here, right? Uh when when the money
comes in for the school choice kids that you have, right? It Does it have to legally go into this other account? >> Has to go into revolving. >> Has to go into revolving. It does. >> And can you legally take it out of revolving and put it in the general
fund? >> You can't increase the general fund. So you can't increase the general fund. >> There's got to be a way of fixing this because it it I >> So let me tell you, Liz, >> and the fact that Okay. It's a fact of life. >> I was You want to talk about like you
know sitting product the year that we had the most students that came in. I forget what it was 100. It was 100 plus. We're like, "Oh my god." And it was the year after we were out of healthless for the very first time ever. We tell the joke that we actually called the Department of Ed said, "You made a
mistake. You gave us $650,000." And Chap said, "No, we didn't. You guys are finally out of held harmless." We're like, "Oh my god." Well, the following year, call it a million dollars. I don't remember the exact amount. We're sitting was 1.2 1.2 million sitting in chapter
chapter 78. I'm like, we could, you know, now that's that's in the g that's there. I'm like, oh my god, what we did with that ultimately is we moved insurance out. So, cuz there was the million dollar sitting there, give or take, I don't know. And so, we made the
decision was just like, oh my god, we could have done like all these other things, but we knew that we had to take the insurance out. It had to be done. We've always said that. And again, the school committee ultimately makes the decision. But if we ever got that opportunity again, I'm telling you, the very first thing I'm going to say is go,
we've got to do this. We've got to because because that money will live there, right? That money will be in the general. They'll right they once they give it to you allegedly, they don't take it back at least during the daylight hours anyway. And so, um, they they get it back, but you know what I'm saying? If we ever got that amount
again, we'd be like, finally, cuz we're we we are constantly chasing something. we shouldn't be chasing, right? And I mean that. Yeah. Yeah. We're chasing this, but we we don't want to. We We don't want to. Um and and and actually,
she's done a great job moving out people because remember when we're switching people in and out, so I'm going to make up a number. I'm moving in a $50,000 teacher, right? And I'm moving out of making it a $70,000 teacher is not going there. But you get it. So now I've just increased,
right, the germ fund. just increased it, but I can't keep pulling from from uh those, you know, because this fund is going down. School choice is going down too quickly. So, it's it's a dangerous game. We don't want to chase it. We don't. But right now, that's where we're at. >> Thank Thank you for your question.
>> No, I I mean, please, these are great questions to ask because you are not the only person with that question. And so I'd rather spend more time at the table around the table trying to help everybody kind of understand because understanding school choice were evolving is a really really hard thing.
And I tell everyone that comes into school committee like ask keep asking them questions because understanding the way that school finances are done. Sometimes you feel like you're having to turn yourself upside down and backwards to try to figure out why they make the
monies move a certain way. So, thank you for keeping asking the question until you felt like you had a better understand. I appreciate actually >> other questions. >> Yes. >> Um, so you mentioned that your staff
final rates got better. So, your teachers staying longer now. Is that you said earlier? You know, they the last couple years they have not. So this would be last week we had three positions we could not fill. I don't know how many times we posted but we
did. Thankfully two folks came out of retirement that worked for us and they and they worked here for a bit. Okay. And that saved us. This year we have two >> two >> two we have two positions that we keep posting and we're not filling. I don't
think it's it's a I really don't think it's a bang or anything like that. It's just that one. Um, if you know if those teachers were looking for jobs back, they were going to go with the highest bidder anyway. Okay. Right. But, um, there's just not a lot of teachers out there. We understand that we're not
going to be I think the highest. I think it was Mont Tech if memory serves. I think they were number one in all categories. Look, if they're educated, that's where they're going to try to go. And if not, they're going to keep going two, three, four, whatever, you know, whatever the districts are. We our the staff that we have over 10 years here
they you know they they run this place. They're the reason why we are um but they're going to there next year we know we're going to see start of next year is going to be you know not not much of a trickle. I think it's going to be well people are going to retire. That's when
we're really going to know. But so it sounds like because of the turnover, you probably have a a good amount big percentage of the staff that is still working the steps and the lanes. >> So I would imagine that over >> how would you describe turnover rate
versus open positions? >> I feel like it slowed down a little bit this year. Um we always lose someone like the day before school starts. We did not this year. So, I'm hoping that that's a trend and
maybe they feel a little more secure and they want to stick around. I don't know. Um, and it's not just teachers. We go through parachals and cafeteria workers like water. I I don't know if they just think it's an easy
job. I can do it. It's the same schedule as my kids and they get here and they find out, oh well, this isn't quite what I thought. Um, but I feel like even this year, the past like six months since school starting, those people that have been hired are
lasting longer. So, so I don't know if if they're just >> they have other scenarios where they were making money and that's not available and they have to have this. I don't know, but it feels a lot better when the big work is not coming to your desk every single day for a new hire.
When we sit with the unions, we are told that we have a good reputation locally, that our school is seen as a place that people want to work >> and and certainly that helps. It also helps that we've moved out of the very
bottom of the salary local salary scale and we're not quite at the middle, but we're better than we were. Um the you know but what we're keeping an eye on is depending on you know how things go this
year. We certainly wouldn't want to then suddenly put ourselves back in a position where we're seeing the turnover because purely not because of our reputation issue but because folks are not getting um compensated at the same
rates that they can find at any other local schools that they can drive to. because we are in a you know in a space where folks can drive within you know 20 minutes and arrive at another school in multiple directions. So people have come back. So the best thing I can say to you
honestly I'm you know it's a great feeling when folks have left not when they leave. That's not good. But when they no but when they do when they come back and they say you know what I you know I was so and so place and now I come back you know and that's look that that is you know things are better you
know that's a good thing to hear you know >> is there no so I was I was impressed by the fact you only have 11 steps. I was expect I haven't seen your contracts yet. I was expecting 13, 14, 15. I know all the towns do, but having this sort of staff. So, I guess my point that I
was kind of getting to was that having a staff now where retention might be getting better, but in a while you're going to have people going through the steps and lanes plus when you renegotiate the contract, they'll get a cola and all of those will be adjusted as well. So, for the next few years, that'll be a building number.
We've just simply uh you know we just taken away the bottom step um on on a couple of occasions because it was just too low. It was just l literally it was it was pathetically low. So those over the years we've had to slowly do this. We just can't wreck the plate. You know
we just can't you know do it all in one fell swoop. It's just not it's just not we're too many. We know what our responsibility is but you're right. You know they're going to be working their way through and it'll it'll I think it'll ease a bit. Right now, probably majority of the teachers are sitting at the right because they they've been here the longest.
>> It'd be nice if they're all at 11 years, >> right? You Yeah. But if they're all at 11 years, look, then they wanted to stay here and now they're invest right. So now hopefully, you know, for long. >> Has there been um um less need for like hiring out third party um like OT, PT,
speech? Like I knew there was a like a shortage in therapists. I don't know if like did a bunch of did a bunch of graduate or we still having that type of problem. >> So we made a we repurposed one of our >> um BCBAs into a speech teacher because
we just had so many IEPs that needed speech. So >> we did that this year which helped because last year we were down a position a woman had left. We couldn't fill her position so we had a contractor. So, we're able to fill her positions and then by repurposing one of
the DCPAs into speech, we have a pretty good handle on the case loses this year. >> Okay, that's good cuz I know that that's a common link of school districts that they're the money they have to pay third parties. >> We're trying to we try to avoid that.
Oh, everybody is insured >> everywhere that we can. But if if an IMD comes in and requires a service that we can't fulfill through staffing, then we are left with no choice because we're fedally obligated to make sure that that student is educated in the way that they
need to be. >> Yeah. You've done the comparison over the salaries. Have you done a comparison over the benefits? >> Yeah, that's You know what? I didn't want to add a thousand slot. I really didn't, you know, but um but yes, we've you know, in some ways, um you know, for
example, uh you know, all those districts, I think, uh we it's 183 days for our teachers. I I think that's on the when I say the lower end, there's a couple with 13, but there's a couple 84 185. So, I mean, that's that's
something. um our insurance is um the uh the breakdown is 7525 that we're starting to see in other districts at least you know when we look at this that that is starting to be margin
lower right so maybe I don't know 6040 but whatever it may be to kind of eat on the side of the there's um you know personal days sick days are generally the same all across the word um
professional development days and again those aren't again those aren't benefits but um the insurance costs are are hard they're high everywhere right it's then it breaks down to well how much is the district i.e the general fund going to take in or take on, I should say, not
take in. Um, that's going to have to be something that is, you know, looked at. I think that's the that would be the biggest. >> And the only thing I'd note there is that while all those things are possible, they're not necessarily quick fixes because for every single for things like
that, they require going back to the bargaining table just like changes in salary scales. But >> I was looking at it from the perspective of changing the Yeah. part. I was more looking at it from the whole compensation package for an individual because when you're looking at it, it's
not just the salary. It's like, oh, I'm paying X amount less or X amount more for my insurance >> that comes into play and and while the insurance conversation, I don't know if this is legally possible. Has there been
and I don't know who to address this to any conversations about the district and TEON because we I think everybody uses the same group and >> yes there has been and so and not only
bleaching that's fine for me to say but um everything's kind of stalled because now we're all talking budgets and now we're getting health insurance numbers going um but that is a talkative convers ation because if we were to blend claims at
the local level the logic of that with you know blend claims as a group on what we call the local level we do share stop loss insurance I won't go into but we share as top loss insurance um if we were to blend claims the local level so tendon joins with naransid and maybe win
or whoever um that bigger pool can protect us from larger increases so when one of let's say the three groups are having a bad claims year the other two pick it up and vice versa. It's just like buying in bulk type of thing. You know, it's easy to absorb that stuff and
so we have been having uh those stocks and um I guess to the district's point to um you know, still maintaining the 7525 split. Um a as you mentioned, that would be something you'd have to bargain and there's going to be a cost to bargaining it because they'll never give
it up for free. And then if you if you were to somehow force it in and as we saw on the chart and you're only paying if I could say probably low middle of the pack and then you change their next probably biggest benefit now you're making the benefit a little worse and
the salary is low middle. So that could be a disincentive to work for the the district. >> Yes. One last question for me and it's more just general opened up. Um over the last few years I've noticed a
uh say greater separation between um what let's say would be reasonable with the town's budget compared to what is being asked for by
the school budget for their need. And I don't see that changing. you know, it's like last year you, you know, drew back 884,000 that you requested. This year, um, you know, you're looking at 3.2 too. And I can tell you right now if we don't have
it um and I'll just speak for you know um but um my my question is what are we doing to adjust so that this trajectory
doesn't continue because you know then we're just going to be cutting bigger and bigger numbers and it's has a potential of, you know, if you know the town side being wrecked or the school
side being wrecked or both. Um cuz these aren't small numbers. You know, 3.2 is pretty much, you know, a large percentage of our entire payroll for the town. Everybody go >> what we've done what we tried to do
again going back is that when we made the initial cuts I think that it you know it kind of reset everything kind of reset I think back so when we cut the I think it was a million dollars but I don't remember exactly 1.1 it what what has thrown us Bob and you're right is
that we've you know we have so many more kids than we had and so you know we had to add back. We wanted to, but we we had to add back all those elementary teachers that we literally cut because of the budget deficit the year before. It's the sheer number of kids. I So, I
would say, and I'm not being combative, right? Not is that what are we doing to maybe slow the roll with all these houses coming in because it's happening too quick. I can't I I have X amount. Again, I'm not I'm not being combative. I I mean it. I I I because we we're only
receiving the kids. We just find out right that this year they went down. Okay. Right. So few but a lot of those kids were school choice kids I mean is even more than the the residents right because we had a large class. So you know what we're trying to do is lower
you know the the class sizes right because we have so many residents right we only have seven school choice kids in all of the elementary school. Seven I mean out of five almost 600 kids. So it's not like we're packing them in there, you know, but but the kids are coming. So Bob, it's really the only way
I know cuz we're staff intensive. Yes, there's there's student bargaining and there's those type of things, but truthfully, you know, put in perspective. So, I looked at where it was supposed to be that uh when the um they did the uh the the MSBA looked at
the new building. Um they did the projections and um it was it was kind of interesting to see where they projected uh 20ou 20 they did in 2015. So those numbers we can check and where those numbers supposed to be in 25. Do you realize I I didn't I did not realize
this until I did the math the other day. the elementary school school as you know was supposed to have the fifth grade. Okay. If you took only residents residents Templeton residents and you added all the residents from uh the
fifth grade, fourth grade all the way down, right? And you got to bring the five the four teachers that are here. You got to bring them got kids, right? You would be over occupancy just with residents. I got to tell you, I had not checked
that before until just a a week ago. They missed. Now, granted, everything was supposed to go like this. It didn't. So, Bob, we're trying. We can't help the kids. They're coming. We like them. We love them. Uh we do. I'm not I don't
mean as a joke. I don't come here. I mean, but we're trying to lower, you know, we're trying to keep those classes, you know, so that so we're not taking as many school choice kids in, right? are not doing you know that to go well we need another teacher these look
it's 2930 no they're going to be 2930 all by themselves just with residents so yeah through neg through all those things we're trying we're trying it would have I think it I've said the plan worked it was would have worked it but all of a sudden boom we're the next
destination place and so I I do I do turn it back echo I can't help the kids that are walking through the door and by the way they're not they're not not liking it. Right? So, what I mean is when I see school choice out, right? Okay. Yeah. Granted, we're still going to get 10 grand, which okay, but I want
15 to be honest with you. So, when I see that number keep going down, I'm like, okay, good. Like, good. I mean, that's that's good. We want kids to, you know, not school choice app. But I, you know, so I I don't know. We're trying like we're really like trying to figure it out, but they just
keep coming, you know. So, >> yeah. and like you didn't want to talk about the uh you know the place over there. Well, from just the discussion that I had with Phillips and I have the numbers at home. I don't have Yeah. But
um you know we got about the same amount in housing places you know bedrooms from single family houses between Philipston and Templeton is that place we don't want to talk
about. >> Um so double that problem. >> Yeah. Um, and as we've talked about before, uh, real estate taxes don't pay school. >> You'll never bounce from state tax,
right? >> Cuz, you know, you got an average $4,000 or whatever real estate tax in town and >> 16% of all the all the people and kids. So >> yeah, my daughter does gymnastics and we travel around to a lot of high schools
in other towns and my husband will always say when we arrive in his like how are they affording this? They have tennis courts and some have a pool and some crazy things and I go there's a business there's a business there's and not not small businesses which I love
our town I love our small businesses but you know these are towns that have you know raon in them etc and so you know yes that's you know folks keep asking me this question of like well our taxes are increasing why isn't that sufficient I'm like because real estate taxes will
never balance out school budgets because if the number of kids. It, you know, the number of kids is outpacing what that what a real estate tax can pay for. >> Yeah. See, I'm pretty sure our entire real estate collections in Templeton are about half of what your budget proposes
to be. >> Yeah. So, >> sure. >> So, you know, we're trying. We are. That's why you don't see me going, "All right, come on in. School choice or something." We We're not We're not doing that. We're not. We're not. And um we're
open, right? We need to have the conversation. You know, we're they're trying to figure it out. >> I saw your question. >> So, I I just wanted to make sure I understood it correctly. When you did the numbers bringing fifth grade back to Tleton Elementary, was that Templeton
only residents? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Cuz I mean, >> and by the way, that's with the low kindergarten class. So I just took it like today. Oh, they're all going back. You know, I just pretended and just added them. And then I looked I'm like
looked at go we're we're over occupancy now. Like not great when dees was a school. That was way over. I mean you want to talk if someone's going to try to tell me that that meant occupancy I'm I'm going to I'm going to question it. I mean it was
that's why we had to build a school, right? cuz they're all so um but you know again it it I couldn't believe it when I did the math of it. I I really just never went to look at it. I'm like we'd be we'd be be talking the same way you know.
>> So you have the you know you had the question of you know where do we go from here? any any bright right ideas that doesn't that doesn't revolve around $3 million emperor. >> So so what I want to be clear of is the
reason that we didn't put an out there is because we want this to be a collaborative understanding. >> Yeah. >> Um so we're trying to understand like the the next item on the budget um >> thank you very much for I didn't >> of course thank you. Thank you. Um the
next item on the budget is the budget outlook for the for the towns. Um, Philips was next, but you know, we'll we'll go to Templeton. Um, and you know, trying to better understand what is what is happening in your world. We know
there's lots of services in the towns. And so, what we're trying to say is not here's exactly what we're asking for, but rather to say, can we make this a collaborative conversation to figure out what are your plans going into FY27 such that we are then building a budget
that is supportive of those plans. um and figuring that out together and openly communicating that if your plan is um you know the minimal percentage um we're in a world of hurt we're we're
in trouble like we're we're in actual trouble. Um, so, so we know that it needs to be somewhere between those two. But rather than, and don't worry, like if that's what we have to do, if we have to come up with a number and, and you guys can't, you know, give us some
directional information, we'll do that. Of course, we will. We always do. Um, we just didn't want to start off that way. We wanted to say, "Let's sit around this table together, recognize it's a problem we all need to solve and better understand what your world looks like before we
start, you know, slashing out line items because we want to make sure we're making the best decision for our school and our students." >> It does. Yes. >> Quick comment. Mr. Mason will get a kick out of this. Dr. C, to your point about where where
we're at and buildings over capacity, >> I think back in the day when we had the East Templeton Elementary and the Otter River School, we were probably over capacity with all the buildings up and running and I see Mr. Mason sitting there quietly shaking his head up and
down. >> When I was a kid, you had Temples Center, Ball, East Templeton, >> and River. Yeah. Yeah. It's >> And I graduated with a class of 132.
>> I went back in the um in the uh you know in all files. I was looking at graduating classes, not just in yearbooks, but just looking through and I was I was honestly shocked to see how big the classes were and just just given the difference. But we but I'm also shocked because when I first got here
graduating classes were 1560. Now they're 90, right? And we have a couple hundred sprinkled in there. I'm not saying we have 100, but we we had the high 80s and stuff. So, and that happened. It literally happened over like it seemed like overnight. So, we're not 32 for god's sakes, but but seeing
glasses down from where it was, I don't know what happened, but 37. Just a quick comment though, the the the closing slide you had, you know, where the part where does the district go and we all had the year we all stayed home and I think we got hit with a trifecta
that none of us wanted to have. And Dr. Came, I think you said it best. If we ever had the choice to do this again, we would not keep the kids at home. I I'm with you. When I was teaching at the college level, the collegiate level, that was the worst thing we ever did for
any of our students. Mr. Case over there is laughing because I know he's also at the collegiate level. >> So, we had those challenges >> and then we had the ARVA funds that got tossed on us and then the ESRE funds
that came down from the federal department of education. those came into the town and I kind of took that and ran the uh ran a beat on it and it was a no-brainer for the towns to accept it and hand it off to the school district. But I also remember
sitting at a town meeting and giving the stern caution that we needed to really pay attention how we did this because it was going to cause us a great divide and a potential financial cliff. And then we got the first trunch and then the second
trunch and the third the SR123. And I think now three and four years after the fact we're seeing that effect because we've looked at 7800,000 million increases year after year after
year and now here we are. How do we fix it? And I I don't want to point fingers say I told you so, but gosh darn it. I kind of predicted this one and reading through all those stacks of papers that kept me up for hours at night. It's like
it's coming to fruition and I'm sitting there going, "Uh, I don't know how to fix it." Yeah. >> But yeah, this is the group that's going to have to fix it. >> Agreed. >> So, thank you for giving us the time to talk and to ask us great questions.
And is there anything you can share with us in this moment? I know we have a chair's meeting on the schedule to make sure that we're having another check-in point um before we have our official budget presentations, but is there any is there anything that's happening in your planning and your conversations you
can share with us so that between now and that chair's meeting and I'm sure we'll touch base, but between now and that chair's meeting, we can start to prep towards an actual official like budget proposal um or anything that can help us directionally understand plans
by 27. And it's okay if the answer is no. Let me let me put on the freedom that the answer is no. That that is okay. You know, this is a very complicated year. >> Like Bob and Liz keep looking at me. U so let me say something. So right now in
in our budget presentation, um the select board's going to have a more formal presentation on the 23rd. Then we have our department uh heads coming in on the 7th. Advisory will be there as well. And then the select board having a couple meetings to decide what they want to do. So right now um it's
still very preliminary for me. I'm still working on direct and indirect costs uh with our enterprise funds. I'm waiting for um a set of numbers that should come in any day now from the retirement system so I know what to assess. But I have plugged in uh very rough estimates
of the things that I don't have exact get. One of them being uh the number that Dr. Cavan gave me which is only two and a half% above last year. And we we know after this conversation that that is not going to be feasible. So So again, what I'm seeing is is
subject to change. Um and I can tell you that um in no great way uh the department heads on the town side asking for um any special things. you know, as of right now, there there are no new
staff at town hall, for example, and no one's at the other ones. Um, and again, I'm just going to reiterate again, we're at a very preliminary stage, but even with that uh school number of 2 and a half%, we we have over a $2 million
deficit when I when I add all um our new growth, the assessors have told me not to not to not to budget more than $60,000. To give you perspective, the town of Salsbury, where I was for many years, a fairly similar sized community. Granted,
there's plenty of differences, but uh similar size community. Um they have new growth of 600,000. Now, 200,000 were because of a special development, but they still would have had 400,000.
Um and that and that's not, you know, the only thing that, you know, hurts us. And I'm budgeting um revenues very conservatively. That's that's the best practice. I I can share that. I think members here probably know uh some of
the revenues last year were a little generous. Um but I'm I'm going to follow the best practices until until you know we decide kind of what direction we're going in. But it's over $2 million that
we have to come up with. And um that's where we are. I don't I don't want to assume I know the solution. Um I I think my our health insurance number will get a little better. I think Mass Strategic's about to make a decision
that will drop what is probably a 19% down to a 15%. I can't believe I'm living in a world where I'm going, yay, 15%. Excuse me. >> But when you were told But when you were told 20% or maybe even at one point they were worried it was going to be 30%. 15
sounds pretty good. >> Yeah. Um but again, that's, you know, not a small piece, not a not a not a small piece of our budget, but it's only, you know, a piece. Um and so we're in we're in the same boat alto together
that it's it's there's not a lot of options and math is math like, you know, >> and and thank you for that. that's that is contextually helpful for us to understand where things are at this moment. Um, and you know the the ch we
knew that you'd all be looking at challenges the same as us and we're also in the same towns here but you know it is helpful for us to directionally have information so that as we're putting together plans that we have that top of
mind. So yeah. Um, anything else that anyone wants to share or is ready to share? And it's okay. Again, the answer is no. Thank you, James. >> All right.
On that note, then I would say there's there's no risks to cover this evening. I think we covered an awful lot. Um, and so we will take charge adjourning. And so I would entertain a motion to adjourn the school today. >> Second.
>> Motion by Sean. Motion by Sean and second by Hank. All in favor? I I motion and I entertain a motion to adjurnn the advisory committee. >> So moved.
>> Second by Liz. How do you vote? Yes. No. House vote. Yes. We are journ motion and second. Any discussion? All those in favor say I. >> I. We're draw