Speaker 1: Alright folks, welcome. This is the Native Conservation Commission. Today is March 19th, our second meeting of March. Our next meeting will be on the Wednesday, April 1st, Wednesday, April 1st. Yes. Very appropriate. Very appropriate for this, for good ones. Not an April Fools joke, I promise. Right. So we're gonna start off the meeting this evening. Do we have, okay, we have Casey. Excellent. Hey, welcome Casey. We're gonna start, we're gonna pull a general business discussion item up to the front and have a, an update from Casey Townson on the Natick Community Organic Farm. So Casey, welcome what's going on?
Speaker 2: A lot's going on. Thanks for having me, everybody. Appreciate you taking the time to hear a little bit what, what we've done in the past year and what we're kind of looking forward to for this year, 2026. If it's okay, everybody, I'll share my screen here so we can see what's been going on. So it's been a busy year. It continues to be a busy year. The farm is a busy, busy place and there's always people coming, always, always people going. It's, it's a lively place and that's the kind of the way we like it. The, the farm, for those who don't know live it, I, I think
of it as living in the center of this Venn diagram between, you know, the education, the production, all of our community events. And it's that sweet spot. You know, we're not just a production farm. We integrate people into what, what we do, whatever that is. So for example, the last six weeks we've just been asking people to carry heavy buckets of sap around the woods 'cause that's what we've been doing for the last six weeks. So we always integrate, we always accept whoever's coming and we just generally are very kind of welcoming place for a lot of people. And Natick, Framingham from all over the place.
Some highlights from the different areas that we have here on the education side, it continues to be kind of one of our, our more robust sections of the farm. In the past year we've seen a huge expansion of our homeschool program. So we're now have, we now have homeschoolers at the farm three days a week. And then we're even offering a homeschool program for, you know, 11 to 14 year olds. And it's a really great program. Kate, who's our Speaker 1: Teacher Speaker 2: There, is doing things like integrating the kids into the animal chores today. They're planting peas, but they're also really cool water quality stuff.
They're testing temperature to water, they're looking for migratory bird patterns, is always something really cool that they're doing on the school front. Last year we saw 835 Natick public school kids who came to the farm free of charge for a wide array of different programs from rocks to soils to maple programs. And we always like to see them come take advantage of that space. And then Saturdays once a month, we have farm discovery days too. And that's a really, it's like a, we're smashing 10 programs into one day essentially. So there's programs for adults, programs
for teens who wanna volunteer. There's all kinds of different things going on. They're, they're really well received and that's kind of what the community wanted from us. They wanted more weekend programming. So that's kind of what we're giving them on those farm discovery days. On the production side, we continue to love our partnership with the community, community service center. And specifically Grace has been really great about, you know, like working with us. We grow the food, we Grace organizes all the volunteers and it's delivered to people's houses. This is the fifth year that we've done that senior CSA
and we do 50 shares every single year. It's a really nice way for the people who can't actually get to the farm to have people who can get to the farm and deliver it to their house. So nice nutritious food, getting to people's doorsteps. We also had 19 teen volunteers at the farm this year, or teen paid workers rather at the farm. And that's kind of a combination of our teen work crew, the pilot, basically they're the infrastructure force at the farm, fixing fences, rebuilding shelters, things like that. But then also our apprentices who were there year round helping
with every bit of what we do. Last year was also the inaugural year for our pick your own fields. And so this was something that I kind of thought about for a long time. Like people come to the farm, they see the animals, but then they go, well what are we supposed to do now? You know, so like the pick your own option was a really great way to get people more involved and more, you know, like beyond just a farmer's market of Oh here's a carrot, let's go out and pick the carrot, let's talk about what to do with a carrot. Let's see how a carrot grows. Like this is actually a carrot, you know, and the really crazy thing about it was it, it drew a,
like a, an amazing international community. We had so many people from different walks of life and, and it was such a diverse selection of people that would come, people who were kind of nostalgic for growing things that had done it during their youth, but people who were just like, oh, this is what we do and this is how we do with this. And it was so awesome to be able to see so many different people kind of appreciating that piece of it. On the community side, Nikki did a really great job of, you know, integrating both small and big events at the farm on the smaller side.
You know, it was our first year with a barn, so we had a barn dance, inaugural barn dance, which is really great. And then on the bigger side, we get all fancy once a year and we do our, we kind of mow down our pasture a little bit and have our harvest dinner, which is a really great, great way to celebrate the food that we grow. Also the teens and just being in that space is, at that time of day is a really magical experience. We were also really blessed to, to work with the Subbury Foundation as well. They, they provided us with a grant. We were able to create signage in multiple languages.
So people who come to the farm because it's really interesting seeing how the farm breaks down. Like Monday through Friday you get people from Natick, you know, Saturday and Sunday you see people from all over the place. And so we now have signage in Portuguese, you know, in Chinese and Russian. And so when people come they can actually appreciate that space in their own language, which is really great. As we turn the corner and look ahead 20, 26 and beyond we're, we are in the final year of our strategic plan and then looking to re-up for another strategic plan for the next four years. But some of you guys had a chance to work
with Appleseed permaculture and from that we were thinking a little more proactively about the use of this space. It's both big and small at the same exact time. So we wanna be really thoughtful about how we're using it. And so this is the diagram that we worked through with Appleseed in terms of our proactive play. Not just saying like, oh, let's put that there, let's do this over here. Thinking about our space, some of the needs of the community, what people were asking for. And so this is gonna be our, our design template essentially moving forward. Some of the things we've already started to work on kind
of in this area back in here, we've put up a, a newer hoop house and that hoop house is gonna be really great because we're gonna be rotating turkeys and sheep in one in that hoop house in year one. And then right next to it we'll have a vegetable hoop house and then we'll flip flop them. And so we'll be able to kind of receive some of the nutrients from that, that manure side of things and then turn it into a vegetable operation. But that's all really great. But the thing that I'm most excited about there is kind of being able to integrate the animals into that back piece of property that says greenhouse rotation,
the SVO pasture stand that we see back there. And that's a piece of land that we haven't really taken advantage of. So being able to get our turkeys out there, our sheep out there, our goats out there I think is gonna be a really great use of that space. The other thing that we're planning for 2026 and beyond is, you know, as a, we are blessed to be, to have, have existed for 51 years now, but with those years we also have some infrastructure that's aging a little bit. And so one thing that we are, we will be hopefully tearing down an aging Turkey house that is cobbled together somehow
and replacing that with this structure, which we're really, really excited about, which we think kind of represents the organization in multiple ways. So this is what we're calling our pavilion. And you can see on the bottom it's gonna be primarily used for our programming. And more and more people are wanting to be doing more programs at the farm weekend programs, birthday parties. It'll be a great space for schools coming to have an area that's outside but also covered at the same time. But similar to who we are, we don't just wanna make an educational space, we want to kind of integrate things together.
So our current plan is to have a rooftop garden on that and that'll help a little bit with kind of the grow, the loss of the growing area if we've just done a simple pavilion. But also it's a really great teaching moment. You know, if we have a school group down in the pavilion, say, hey, let's go up and let's talk about what things we can grow and how, how does this mitigate rainwater, how does it help with cooling effect? And so we're really excited about that for 2026. And then the other thing from a, from a community standpoint, we just continue to be asked for more and more programs. And so we've been, you know, increasing the number of programs we have.
We have a new membership coordinator this year and we hope that she's gonna be able to do more for, not only for our members, but also for just general community groups to kind of reaching out. This was one of the groups that came from the bacon free library when they come and they do a book reading. So it's a great collaborative program and one that we kind of hope to do more and more and over the future years. So that was kind of a blast, a quick blast of 2025 and 2026. And so I'll take any questions that anybody has at this moment. Speaker 1: Great, thanks Casey. Quick question.
So we, we had talked a year ago, I think about the pavilion idea and about tucking it, I think on the other side of the road, back behind the farmhouse, right? Is that what you know? So Speaker 3: We had reviewed potentially placing the pavilion in that area where the hoop house went that Casey was talking about. Yes. But the, with I think a couple of us went out to the site, the width and the proximity to the wetlands along Davis brook was a little tight. So yeah, it's now been flipped to the other side of the parking lot. Got it. Behind Speaker 1: The farm farm.
I, it's, I love the design of it with that rooftop garden. That's, that's really cool. And I can see how that would be, you know, very symbolic for the, for the farm there. Other questions for Casey Speaker 3: And if anybody has questions for Casey throughout the year, you're always welcome to reach out to me and I can pass them along or Casey's Speaker 1: Or, it's also really fun just to go down to the farm and chase him down and, and find 'em and ask him questions there. Speaker 2: This is true. And as Matt says that you do have to chase me down 'cause I'm constantly moving. This is true. Speaker 1: That is correct. That is good. So any, any, any other questions, updates? Alright, Casey, I think we're good. Great stuff as always.
Thank you so much for everything that you do for the community. You know, it's, it's, it's such an important part of the fabric of Natick. So, so thanks and we will, we'll see you down on the farm. Speaker 2: All right. Thanks Matt. Appreciate it. Speaker 1: Excellent. Thank you. Appreciate your time Speaker 2: Everybody. Speaker 3: Bye Casey. Speaker 1: All right. Computer went to sleep, right? Four running Brook circle. Yes. Come on up. Thank you. Have a seat. Welcome. Thanks so much. Thanks for coming. Really appreciate it. Thanks Speaker 4: For having me. Yeah, of course. That was really cool, by the way, with Casey. Oh Speaker 1: Yeah, no, they do, they do amazing work. Speaker 4: Unbelievable. Really, really cool. I didn't even know about it. So, Speaker 1: Yeah.
So, so I mean we're, we're here 'cause there was some stuff going on on, on your property that technically needs a permit and we just want to kind of hear from you as to what Sure. What, what you did and then we can just go, go from there. Yeah. Speaker 4: So of course, sure. A little bit of a background just to let everybody know here. I, I have worked with you in the past during CID we took down some trees at that time we worked with you, we got a permit Speaker 1: I think I remember that. Speaker 4: Yeah, the trees were, it was, it was very precipitous at the time and they, they would've fallen on the house
and that was due to erosion. So that's kind of a background there with working with you and having that relationship there. The other thing is, I would say over the last six years that I've lived in the home, my wife has reached out numerous amount of times to the town. Will Brian, all those guys, great guys, but just, we were very unsuccessful to be able to get them to prevent that erosion. They came in. This is erosion Speaker 1: Coming from the channel. That, and it, and this is the channel that's directly, that's right. Directly across the street from Theo's
and the Thai food place down on 27. That's where all of the, the route 27, a lot of the route 27 stormwater infrastructure then drains into that. Is Speaker 3: That, yeah, so it, it's a fairly substantial, almost, I'm trying to think of what the street is that takes the northern end of this, this little cul-de-sac Gordon road. Yeah. So from Gordon Road on Route 27, everything south of that is draining to this point. And then everything north of,
or I'm sorry, south, no, north of where the Route nine west ramp merges with 27. So essentially that the top edge of that large intersection format drains down to this channel as well as all of the parking lot drainage from the 9 27 plaza. Yeah. Speaker 1: Yes. Right. Exactly. Speaker 3: So, and, and I had up on the screen folks can see that this aerial is from 2021. I don't know if folks can see the erosion. Sure.
It's, it's a little difficult from an aerial perspective. When I started with the town in the fall of 2021, I, I had actually visited Camp Mary Bunker, which is the abutting town owned property. And just to clarify, Mr. Dino owns both sides of the stream. The property line is about 10 feet south of the, the stream corridor there. Cool. And at that time, I think the erosion was maybe in some of its worst state and there was a simple wooden crossing from,
from one side of the stream until the other. The tap when Speaker 1: Wa when, when was, when was the, the Route 27 repaving project and all that storm water, when was that done? Right Speaker 3: In this time period. So right in 2021, late 20, Speaker 4: A little bit after about 2022 it was finished when they put the new conduit under 27, which caused even Speaker 3: More problems. A lot of it was still coming through old pipes, but it was the new pipe edition. That's right. So all that work, 2021 that's right. Early 2022 is when that work was occurring. Alright. Speaker 4: So and, and, and and prior to that was a problem. And then even with that was a problem.
So prior to that, continuing the background is everything would wash up on my, on the house side of the property. That was the main concern. You, you name it from Christmas trees and garbage bags to personal, very personal items. And I, you know, being very pro-con conservationist, I I clean that stream at at least once a week. Yeah, right. So I've, we've done a lot of work there. The neighbors are very pro-con conserv conservation. We've, we've rescued wildlife recently, a hawk last year.
We do a lot to really preserve. We love the area. So anyway, not only was the trash in the, the water coming up into the property, but the property was receding. It was a eroding. And then we got an addition, we got a renovation onto the home and they did a lot of work. This is prior to the renovation 'cause that's the old part of the deck. And the builder at the time had let us know that the deck was actually listing to towards the waterway.
So that was an issue. We reached out, like I said, my wife reached out to the town several times. They brought in some crusher stone and put it on the embankment. But that just washed down into, you know, in, into, towards Mary Bunker. And then about a year later, this is prior to me putting the retaining wall up, I wanna say maybe 2021 maybe. Yeah, maybe 2021. They put in some, help me out clear. They put in these granite slabs
probably two feet by four feet. You can see them right there tall. So Speaker 3: Exactly. It's old granite curbing that was placed. Speaker 4: Yeah. And it, it, it didn't do much. And because see that area right there, it's, these are all natural waterfalls that are happening. This is very steep. So basically to the left going south, you've got a tremendous slope coming down here from Gonko Road. Right, right. So that slope and our slope that creates such a, it creates all these waterfalls that are going down, which I took advantage of obviously with my stone work
to enhance, you know, the, the, the waterfalls there as well. But it was a problem. So I built the retaining walls all through my property line. I not you, you personally, Speaker 5: Or, or Speaker 4: Did you have some I personally You did. Okay. I did, yeah. I put about, I wanna say at least 40 ton of granite that I got from Patriot mulch. I did it. I, I, I learned how to do that work when I was in the Marine Corps years ago. So I, I just took advantage and I did it when I could. It took me about four years. I put that in there. It it, it created quite an impressive improvement.
Not only on the aesthetics, but as you can see, no more erosion. And then I backfilled it behind that wall, that wall's about, I don't know, four or five feet high at, at the most. And I did the other side too for aesthetics reason. And I thought I could channel the water even better so it wouldn't rush through that waterfall area even harder and pull more of the land out. If you look even west of that point where I did the finish, the work that is all eroded, I saw the guys
on my property about two weeks ago looking down and pointing. You can see, yeah, you can see the fallen tree. That thing is a monster and there are a bunch of fallen trees. It's just Speaker 5: Complete your, your house is on the right side Speaker 4: Here. My, my house is to the right before that fir tree right there that you see. Okay. And then number six is up Speaker 3: In the background Speaker 4: Here, up behind that fir tree. And you can see, see how where that tree has fallen and you can see to the right of it, that erosion. That's what was happening on my property for years. So I mitigated that
and then I built a, a bridge. So Speaker 5: This stuff, this stuff here is, is this is all on both sides that stone work is all what you did. Speaker 4: Yeah. Speaker 3: So, and just to jump in, so in this photo, which is, we're looking towards Route 27 here. Yeah. And I'm trying to figure out a way to, Speaker 4: Yeah, you're looking east towards 27 where the conduit is. And I don't know if I'm jumping to Claire's point, but before my wall is, what do you call this? Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna get
Speaker 4: To. Yeah. The, Speaker 3: So DPW previously I believe in partnership with DOT and I'm trying to figure out which photo I think it was that photo I was on shows it the best. So along the property line of two running Brook gambians is, yes, they're called Gambians there steel, steel cages filled with rock, essentially. Yeah. With cobbles you can, it's very difficult to see from so far away. And of course my touchscreen on my computer is now fighting with me. 'cause I keep trying to do both touchscreen and my mouse.
So you could see where the stonewall ends, that's right between there and the plunge pool at the culverts at the under 27, there's a row of gambians that were installed by the town, I believe in partnership with DOT. That's it Exactly. Yep. Yep. And those gambians are being undercut. There is erosion that is happening underneath those gambians. Speaker 4: So sooner or later they're Speaker 3: Gonna go ahead properly. Yes. What I will say is the personally, and nobody from DOT is in the room right now, I do not believe that the drainage work
for the 27 project was permitted properly. I think that's part of the reason that I'm trying to get such a grasp on this stuff right now is because with the 9 27 project, there's potentially additional work coming into this corridor. And so unfortunately Ed got caught in the middle of that, a little bit of all of our site visits out into that area. But the gambians are being undercut as Ed noted, there is still significant erosion to the downstream section of the river as well. Yeah. However, there are multiple causes for that
erosion, including there is a large scale and I don't have any great pictures of it. So I'm gonna switch back to the aerial view where we might be able to see it a little bit better. So we're, we're sort of following the stream corridor here. Either there's Mako road that comes through and it's not really visible on the aerials, but sort of in this area of the stream corridor, there is a large abandoned concrete structure, my guess is old drainage infrastructure. But it creates a, a substantial obstacle in the stream corridor.
So there are now several areas where water has rec channelized itself around this concrete structure. And is Speaker 4: This on your property? Speaker 3: No, this, no, this, this is all Camp Mary bunker this on Mary Speaker 4: Bunker's property. Yeah. And that, that, that concrete structure is about, I measured it the other day, I think it was like 18 by two feet and it's, it's under Gonko road. So it's Yes. Speaker 3: It's it's a big structure. Yeah. And so that is one of the large issues that's because of that water can't get through. So it backs up forces out of its banks depositing sediment,
but also creates an obstacle that backs water up further along the stream corridor. Speaker 1: So. Okay. Yeah. So there's a couple of issues here. I mean, so, so the, the corridor, all that great stone work, I mean, I'm a little blown away that you knocked that out and did that with in your spare time on Saturdays. People think I'm crazy, but that's fine. Hey man, you know, that's the worst criticism you get. That's, it's a good workout. So, so that, that, that work wasn't, wasn't permitted through us. That's right. Correct. Okay. And then where's, where's the bridge that we're talking about?
Is that that stone bridge? Yes. Speaker 3: There, there's, there's some components to the bridge. So here I'm standing on the bridge looking at the mortared stone that was placed in the stream corridor. This is the picture from the original site visit with DOT where the bridge was noted by staff. Yeah. So this is the bridge structure that has been built. Again, this is not an encroachment issue, this is not an access issue. All of the land is under the care and custody of Mr. Dino. And, but there's obviously work that's been done within wetlands jurisdiction. Sure. That was not permitted properly.
Speaker 6: But does he have some inherent right to build a, a crossing across it by virtue of owning both sides? Speaker 3: Yes and no. Technically yes and no. If we did not permit him to build a bridge, it could be considered a legal taking. I don't think we would've prevented him from building the bridge. The biggest question I think I I tried to get at this in my staff notes is does the bridge that was constructed meet the performance standards that would've been required of it had we been reviewing and permitting it appropriately versus after the fact?
Speaker 1: What's your opinion eyeballing it? Speaker 3: So, and I, I've explained this to Ed as well, the overarching structure is it's, you know, it's an open bottom arch. It, it does appear to meet a number of the stream crossing standards. My primary concern is the, the mortar stone in the stream corridor because it does create a drop. There is a, a flow through pipe that Mr. Dino placed under that stone. So that water does flow still in lower water conditions. But I think this photo is a good example. There's not a ton of water in this stream corridor right now.
Probably three or four inches. But you can see it is, it is not necessarily being, it is being slowed substantially by this, the, the row of mortared stone under the, the bridge corridor. Speaker 6: And is this picture looking back towards route 27 or Speaker 3: No, this is looking downstream towards Lake Constituit. So route 27 is at my back in this photo. Speaker 1: So there's, so there's there's mortared stone on the stream bed. Speaker 3: Yeah. So this is that photo right there. So I'm standing on the bridge looking down right now. Speaker 1: And so, so the, there's mortared stone Speaker 7: Underneath the air. Yes. Structural. What was the, what was the intention with that?
Speaker 4: Sure. So I needed, so this is a, an exact Roman arch, which is a concentric circle. Right. And it does require forces to be on, on lateral side. And what I did on the bottom is I just reinforced it just, it was my first one to, to build. So I, I reinforced the bottom so that it would give a force inside the arch going out. Now to Claire's point, it is, it was mortared. I even put some like pavers on
to make it look pretty on the bottom. However, that view right there, it, that's part of the waterfall. So that the stones, I think in your diagram Yes. On that side, if you can go, yeah. So that's, that's not how it looks on the other side. The other side is, is almost relatively flat because remember it's the downstream coming this way. Speaker 7: So the down. So, so we're looking upstream right now. Speaker 4: You're looking upstream, upflow and the, the,
what do you call the strict constriction? Constriction? Speaker 3: Yes. Speaker 4: Constriction on the other side is probably only half of one of those stones, if, if you will. So it's a little bit of a lip, but it's certainly not. And here's Speaker 7: Just an exhibit. Speaker 3: Oh yeah, please pass. Speaker 7: Yeah. So this is from, we had a deluge your brain on, Speaker 4: We did Sunday Speaker 7: Night and Monday. Probably not the worst case that I've seen, but certainly it, it was heavy. And you can see the water barely comes up the arch maybe 20%.
And you can see the time stamp stamp on my, I have a bridge cam that's always on. Speaker 3: So there's a couple of, Speaker 7: And that's down the street towards this is, this is towards the lake that's looking from my property, but looking down street. So looking left is is looking east upstream and Speaker 4: Yes. Speaker 3: And Speaker 4: Right Speaker 7: Is west down towards the lake. Yep, Speaker 3: That's right. So the lake is David, you're route 27. So there's a couple of things that the commission, Speaker 6: But is that, I mean, with that structure there, we we increasing Speaker 7: The velocity Speaker 6: Of the flow downstream,
which is gonna exacerbate. Speaker 3: So there's, there's a couple of things that the commission should be discussing, determining tonight as a part of the discussion. Obviously this work needs to be permanent and documented in some kind of way. What is the appropriate permit for that? What kind of documentation is the commission gonna be looking for? And if we can come to a determination, what, if anything raises the biggest red flags in terms of what might need to be removed? Mr. Dino is aware that no work should be happening until we're through the permitting process. But, you know, I didn't wanna make any determinations for the commission about what they might feel
is required for this process. DPW is out in this area on a very regular basis. They have not necessarily noticed under the current conditions an issue with the bridge constricting flow. However, with the 9 27 project, maybe additional drainage being directed to this area, that was one of the reasons that we sort of flagged this during that site visit that I had with DOT as something that we should get an idea and, and a handle on. What I will also say is, as part of the 9 27 interchange work, district three has been
decently communicative with me and they are aware that I am not going to allow drainage work to happen un permitted as I feel maybe it has happened previously. I know DOT has a lot of exemptions, but new untreated discharges to resource areas is not something that is exempted. Speaker 1: But, but but but but these aren't untreated discharges. I mean they are Yep. Speaker 3: They're coming straight from catch basins in the road. Yeah, Speaker 1: They it is, but they're not But isn't it mostly deep sum catch basins with, Speaker 3: So maybe the new ones in 27 are deep sump, but because of the fact that most of the catch basins
and the new interchange are gonna be on bridge structures. Speaker 1: Yeah. It's gonna be deep sum. Correct. Speaker 3: I Speaker 1: Thought that they did improve that on 27. I Speaker 3: Thought they were up at Snake Brook. They improved it up at Snake Brook in a portion of it. But this area of drainage, no improvements were done within that drainage area. And again, I was not here at the time when this was permitted. I'm going off of what I can glean from the, the documentation that I have available to me. So this Speaker 1: Morning they were deep sun catch basins. Yeah. That were what was installed Michael? No, Speaker 8: I just, I recall it. There was, there was issues with some of that because of the plume and there was Oh yeah.
And we couldn't do some of the stuff that they wanted to do Speaker 1: Because they couldn't do some of the digging that they needed to do because of the p the TC. So that Speaker 8: Was my recollection. Interesting. I could be a hundred percent wrong. Speaker 1: I'd have to go back and check on that. That makes sense. Plume. The Speaker 3: Plume is, oh, so there's a contaminated soil plume on the Mary bunker property. That's, those brown pipes that stick up out the ground are monitoring wells. Speaker 1: Oh, I see the guys in there a lot. Speaker 3: Yeah, that's, that's why they're out there. Speaker 1: Okay, so let's let, let's map out a plan of attack here. Speaker 3: Oh wait, I'm sorry. I just didn't, I didn't finish quite my, so I have been working
with Bill McDowell town engineer. We are looking at potential applicable ecological restoration projects for this stream corridor as a whole to address the existing constriction issues at that concrete structure as part of potentially a larger project to bring additional drainage into this area as part of the 9 27 project. So they may break, those are still very early like I'm, you know, highlighting regulations and writing up summaries. At this point, we're not anywhere near project concepts or permitting yet. But I also wanted to give that as a precursor
of there may be more work happening in this corridor if we wanted to ha consider that in terms of timelines. That's Speaker 1: What I was gonna that's what I was gonna ask. And that's, I mean, you've done an, you know, all albeit without permits, you've done an amazing amount and, you know, effort on this. Is there an, an easement? Speaker 3: So the Speaker 1: Where the, where this drainage ditch goes, Speaker 3: The town does have an easement over the drainage corridor. I'm pulling up the, I Speaker 1: Mean, one concern that I have Yeah. Snaps. One concern I have is that as part of the 9 27 project, is that it? I mean if, if they are increasing the drainage,
changing the drainage and all that stuff that with the easement they could go in and just blow it all up. Speaker 4: Well they, well they need to do something if, if it's gonna have more volume coming through there. And I've been in that brook now for five years working mostly when it's dry. Yeah, we've had a lot of dry spells, which gave me the impetus to do the work. I can tell you the way DI agree with Claire the way DOT did that 27 part number two running brook circle. He had a problem with flooding and that's because they laid down so much cut fieldstone in there
and I removed it and when I removed it, it made the flow even better. So he's got no issues at all. Right now with flooding. We've got water running through there seamlessly. You can see with this deluge is only coming up about not even 20% of the arch. The arch is about the same dimensions as the one on the conduit under 27. And really the problem lies downstream with gonko. And by the way, I, I walked through there the other day once the stream hits Gonko and then after that barrier on the other side there are those,
Speaker 3: The Gambians Speaker 4: Gambians? Yep. All the way to the end. And I spoke to the neighbor down there, Tom, I don't remember his wife's name. And they have a bridge too, by the way. It's a beautiful area, but the town really preserved that nicely on that end. But nothing from after two running Brook through the rest of our cul-de-sac. Yeah. And you know, I took matters into my own hands. I felt it was my, my right to preserve my land. And that's Sure. My only re response on that, a question on the, but I'll do whatever you want on the granite slabs that they put down on each side of the stream
is that no one side of the stream, the town did just one side. Yeah. So Speaker 3: Just one side. It's just, just because of the way the river is curving, the erosion was happening primarily on that right bank. That makes sense. So that's why it was stabilized with the, the curbing. Speaker 4: So that's this here. Yes, that's right. Nothing on the other. You planted all the stones. I did all that into Speaker 9: The bed. Into the stream bed. Are those being under roaded Speaker 4: Under way? No, not at all. The are, no. Speaker 3: So what, what I'll say the, the stream bed is natural except for that strip of stone under the bridge structure.
Speaker 4: That's all, that's all heavy. That's not moving at all. Even with Speaker 9: The camions would be heavy too. Speaker 4: So Speaker 3: I, I am not an engineer. I will never claim to be one. But I believe that the gambians were, from my perspective, Gambians are a temporary measure in areas that experience high water flow. They are never gonna be stable enough to be permanent in an area that experiences the level of water fluctuations that that area does. If it was consistent water levels, I think they would do really well. But I think because the water level does drop to
below the gambians when we're having these low flow events, it's slowly eroding at that material. I also think that they were installed without an understanding of the volume of water that was gonna be going through there. So I think larger gambians probably would've been installed if things had gone through proper hydraulic study Speaker 9: Or perhaps if they'd been installed right down to the stream bed level. Speaker 3: Yeah. And and it's hard to know because stream beds have so much muck in them, you know, where that can be done properly. What in all of this discussion, what I'm realizing is that maybe we should do a site visit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that would be important to do that. And you know, that would be my, my suggestion so that we can lay eyes on it because it's gonna be an important area of activity as part of the 9 27 development. Sure. Speaker 10: There all that was done by the town. Speaker 3: So the, the Gambian work and the, the curbing as far as I can tell was done by the town and that Speaker 10: Was never, we were never addressed on that. So, Speaker 3: Oh, we were, we did, some of this happened before I started, some of it happened
after portions of it. I believe only the Gambian work would've been covered under the order of conditions, the generic order of conditions. Speaker 4: The top Just, I just wanna interrupt for a second. Oh yeah. The town knew about this. I've been in that stream for five years. The guys have come down. We've had, we have so many problems on the circle that Brian Casey and his crew have been in there and they see me working. They come down and we laughed about the, you know, the bandaid that they put in there and we've, they even said they've known about this work
for five years Yeah. Being in there. Yeah. So it's been no secret. It's not, not like I did it overnight. No. Behind anyone's back. I mean you could see me down there all the time. Speaker 1: So, so in terms of a process, I mean, let's go take a look at it just so we can lay eyes. 'cause I think this is gonna be a really, a really important kind of locus of a lot of work in the coming few years as 9 27 gets, gets underway. I think Claire probably made clear to you. We'll make it clear again that, you know, anything you're doing around the stream's gotta get permitted. Okay. You know, and you'll find that this commission is pretty collaborative Okay.
And interested in solutions to problems. You know, I could tell. And so just wanna, things have to be papered appropriately. We wanna make sure that if work is proposed, it's designed right, so that it's gonna last, it's gonna accomplish what, what you want to do. You know, just keep that in mind. I think after the sidewalk then what we can do is we can get back together and kind of decide what, I mean, my, my my instinct is that a fair bit of what you did, my, my instinct and concern is that a fair bit of what you've spent five years working on building, some of it's gonna get changed as part of the 9 27 work
because there's gonna be additional, a fair bit of additional volume going into the drainage system and you know, so we just need to, you know, be aware of that. I mean I, you know, that's just a gut instinct that I have. I mean, I could be wrong, but all that being said, you know, we, what we can then do is just get back together and decide for the work. You know, once we have kind of the visual information, we've all laid eyes on it, you know, we do need to retroactively put some paper in place just so that it's documented. Yeah, I'll do that. And then we can once we, and then so once we decide on that, then,
then we can, we can together kind of strategize moving forward. What makes sense. What do you, what do you guys think? I mean, I think it starts simple with a site visit. Sounds good. And then we get back together and, and, and talk about it. And then we'll, you know, we're, we're ready and willing to collaborate with you on stuff. That's great. Mean this is a beautiful piece of property. Thank you. You know, you've got the right access the other side of your property, you know, and we will certainly, you know, collaborate
with you and kind of deal with you in a constructive way. Speaker 4: You know, the kids like to play in the woods. I'm not just, my kids are older, but my grandkids, other kids in the neighborhood, they, they love there. That's awesome. No, Speaker 1: It's a beautiful piece of work you Speaker 4: Did. And the Roman arch, I, there's probably not many in Natick that are made of stone Speaker 1: That's, it's, it's Speaker 4: Ing So that's, that could last there for a long, long time. But I hear what you're saying. Is there, is Speaker 8: There any way to just get I, you know, to some of the detail that we're kind of looking for, which is,
you know, I'm not an engineer either, Claire, but I can tell you the work that's been done there is creating the erosion problem downstream. The work that was done as part of the, the 27 work, no, the work that this young man has done because all that velocity when you start to channelize streams, like what has been done, just increasing velocity, increased all You're increasing velocity and, and the, the erosion that occurs, you may have fixed it on your property, but you're just pushing it downstream. That's all you're doing. Yeah. And that, and, and that's, that's a problem. And then we also, it Speaker 4: Isn't a problem on my property now, which is good for me.
Well because it was Speaker 8: A mess. But that's part of our responsibility here is that we don't want you pushing your problems onto somebody else's. Yeah. Problem. Speaker 4: Fortunately nobody has property with the stream after me. That's a good thing. Speaker 3: Except the town. Speaker 4: Yeah. The town. The town owns it. Speaker 8: So I, I guess I'm looking for a little bit more of a holistic review of this where agreed we had DOT we've had town and you know, town as well involved putting things into a stream without permits potentially Speaker 3: Getting information about the that work as well.
Speaker 8: Yeah. You know, just, I'm just trying to wrap my head around, you know, I can understand folks in the community maybe not understanding our role here to a certain extent and maybe not understanding the importance of wetlands and streams and, but I I'm still kind of confused about how government entities can start putting things in, in a wetland system without maybe checking to see if, hey, maybe I need a permit that, you know, that would be,
Speaker 6: I mean, can we check the, can we check the past? 'cause the work that was done adjacent to that, there was the, the work that was done on the Stop and Shop Plaza, which was extensive that whole, yeah. That whole building stormwater, which all feeds every drill feeds right into that system. But I, I swore that we discussed that work that went all the way up from 27 from the rebuild down by General Green Street that was capturing the water down that we've discussed that whole 27 project at different parts. Speaker 3: Yeah. And I, I've been Speaker 6: Include like down by, I've
Speaker 3: Been trying to get through all the notes. The minutes from back then are not as detailed as maybe the style that we write them in now. So it's harder to get an idea. So I've been trying to dig through the records. A lot of those records are at the public works office. They, it just says in the file, you know, c reference plans in the W records. So I've been trying to dig through a lot of those materials up. Speaker 6: 'cause it wouldn't make sense that down by mulch right down by the golf course when they were talking about paving that they said we can't, we can't put deep suns because the water's essentially at that, that we talked about those down there.
We talked about other parts that at this point Speaker 3: Followed. If I remember correctly, Speaker 6: We would've talked about the Speaker 3: Work that was done by DOT as part of the 27 project in this area was, and this again me going through old minutes, old emails, things like that. It was a bit of a slap dash in this specific area. I believe that the intention had been to direct more of the drainage to Snake Brook and that feature that they were constructing. But then with the delay on that work, because of the article 97 and the DRC co DCR coordination, if I'm remembering correctly,
what had originally been a temporary discharge of runoff at this location then became a permanent discharge of runoff. There was always going to be additional runoff, but a, a larger amount of runoff was permanently directed in this Speaker 8: Area. We talked, we talked about point source pollution with that infrastructure because obviously it's a drinking water supply Yep. For all of us. And the idea that we would be allowing point source pollutant directly into our drinking water supply. Like I'm not saying I'm really the smartest person in this room, but I can tell you one thing I would've lost my
mind if that was proposed. They Speaker 6: Treated the system that they put into the 9 27 shopping Plaza WA was treating a significant amount of that water. That system was by failed if not existent. Right. Speaker 8: Correct. And that was all in the, that's in the parking lot. Yeah. Speaker 6: In the parking lot. But that would've come in and tied into tie Speaker 3: Street. Yeah. It has overflows that tie into this system. I think Speaker 6: This was probably more to the positive that was done at that intersection, but Speaker 8: Because there was a lot of digging by the cemetery, I remember there was another, there was another structure Yeah.
Put in. Anyways, I don't wanna waste everybody's time. But I guess the main thing from my perspective is just understanding, you know, steps. Like are there, could we use MVP money to, to, to kind of do some more analysis here if we don't have the data points necessary. Speaker 3: I'm hoping that DER might be interested in partnering on this particular area. Like I said, I I, my ideal scenario, Speaker 8: 'cause the engineering cost just to figure this out,
is substantial. Speaker 3: Significant, significant. Which is why, which is why we have my beautiful sketch instead of a, a full engineered plan. So Speaker 1: Why don't we do it this way? Okay. I mean let's, let's do the site visit. Are are folks available Saturday Speaker 10: With the site visit? It would be very nice to have the other entity. There's us, there's this gentleman and then there's the town. I mean, Speaker 1: And there's DOT, they Speaker 10: Probably screwed up royally themselves. Speaker 1: Well, why don't we, why don't we start with us taking a look at it. Speaker 10: But it'd be nice to, you know, make sure that, that they're, they at least know
that the pages are being looked at. Speaker 1: But then, but then to Michael's point, I mean going in with a kind of a holistic eyes wide open perspective and going in with the perspective that there may be an opportunity coming up with the 9 27 work. You know, and, and, and, but I think, you know, let's start with us taking a look at this. Are are people available this Saturday? Speaker 7: I am Morning Michael, should I just wanna say this? Like you, I gotta challenge the velocity portion of what you are saying only because if anything, this is wider. Like I said this, this is, Speaker 3: Well, so I think what in here, what Mike is saying is that
because you've created Speaker 8: This stabilization, Speaker 7: Anytime Speaker 8: I understand when there's not a natural bank there, you by default have created velocity. Velocity increases because Speaker 3: The vegetation that would grow naturally would slow water. That's the water. Exactly. Speaker 8: You know, there's not rivers put in concrete anymore. It's because it creates huge problems. Yeah. Speaker 7: And we probably have video of like before all this when just the wooden bridge was that velocity was, Speaker 8: I'm, I'm not disagreeing with you that you had erosion issues and, and the work that you've done. Yeah, I have, I have nothing against protecting your property.
I'm, I'm a hundred percent in agreement with that. You know, I think that the issue at hand is I, let's not sugarcoat. Right. What you've done is is also gonna create erosion downstream. It is just that's natural. Natural. It's just, it's just gonna happen and equal. Speaker 3: It's trying to a reaction sort of Speaker 6: To trying to prove a negative right now. And so by, by virtue of the thing being there and saying, but it wasn't. Yeah. Speaker 3: So Saturday morning, Speaker 1: So Saturday morning, 9:00 AM 8:00 AM at George's for coffee. All ready? Speaker 8: Go George. Eight 30. Speaker 1: 8 38 7.
Speaker 3: I'm up at seven with the dog. So Speaker 8: What, what month are we in? Speaker 3: March. Speaker 6: Oh, it's spring. So we Speaker 8: Can wear shorts. Is it the Equinox on the 21st? Speaker 1: So Saturday morning 8:30 AM eight 30. Speaker 8: Yep. Speaker 1: Okay. And then should we meet at, I mean, why don't we meet just at your place. Sure. Speaker 3: Or folks can park at Mary Bunker and we can walk up there. Whichever works Well, Speaker 1: Let's park at Mary Speaker 3: Bunker. Just 'cause running Brook doesn't have a ton of street availability. Yeah, Speaker 1: Yeah. Just pull into Mary Bunker. Yep. And then we'll do that and then we'll walk. Speaker 3: There's nothing going on there at this time of year. Yeah, right on. Speaker 1: So let's do that and we'll take a look at it. I think it's, and then just start a conversation, emails,
Speaker 3: Think Chris isn't here. Just, Speaker 1: Just keeping all of these things in mind. Okay. And then we'll reconvene back here, have another conversation and go from there. Good, good. Does that work for guys? That's great. Speaker 8: Okay. Good work on that. 40 tons of rock. Oh, I know. Speaker 1: It was, it was insane. Yeah, it really Speaker 3: Was. Speaker 7: But Speaker 8: Only a Marine could do that. Well, Speaker 1: Nothing against my Navy for of course it same department. Go on. Well, thank you guys. Hey, thank you. Appreciate your time. Have a great night. See you Saturday morning. We'll see you Saturday morning eight 30. Take care. Good. Thank you. Speaker 3: Have a good one, ed. So,
Speaker 1: All right, so that's it in terms of the public for the, the, the kind of the formal stuff we've got. We took care of, we took care of Casey. Yep. We've got one other thing. I'd, I'd close. Two Speaker 3: Other things. I technically Speaker 1: I close close my window on my Speaker 3: Minutes and, and a comment letter. But the comment letter could even be pushed to next week if folks really want to get out of here. Jeff, did you have a chance to review those? I did Speaker 1: Look good. Nice. Thank you, Jeff. Speaker 6: I removed, I insert a comma and took and then changed the word. Okay. Speaker 3: I'll accept all those changes.
Speaker 10: What are they putting in at 2 73 or what, what are Speaker 1: They looking at? Speaker 3: Oh, we just need a motion and a second for the minutes. Speaker 1: Yep. So someone make a motion to approve the minutes. I'm sorry, I'm just trying to motion to approve. Yep. Thank you Jim. Is that second? Second. All right. I'll take Jeff second on that. All in favor of approving the minutes. Chris, is Chris on? No, Speaker 3: He's not here Speaker 1: Tonight. Okay, good. So we have that and then we've got a comment letter for 2 73 West Central. That's the West Natick train station. Plaza, Speaker 3: Yes. So a Natick crossing is, I believe what the name of the plaza is.
There was, there was a subway, there was a, a indoor playroom for kids. A whole bunch of different Speaker 1: Businesses. Bunch of housing, bunch of housing, a little bit of retail space. Speaker 3: 219 units. Wow. Speaker 1: Oh Speaker 3: 2 73 is the framing right next to the train station. Well, from Speaker 10: Framing him nice. During commut. Oh Speaker 6: Yeah. Speaker 3: So Speaker 6: Yeah, he blocked out the parking. Speaker 3: There's left parking. This is what is proposed on the lot. It's, I know it's cut off a little bit 'cause of the awkward lot shape, but the, you can see the existing building grayed out
underneath what is being proposed, which is a, a a four-sided structure with an interior courtyard parking on three sides and a pedestrian multi-use pathway along one side that will provide direct connection to the train station. And Speaker 1: The train station parking lot though, that's, that's owned by the T right? Yes. And so that stays, that's not the Speaker 3: No, this is just the parcel and the parking for 2 73 North Main Street. Speaker 1: It's, it is a PD Speaker 3: It is a PD. There's a draft letter if folks wanna look at it, that gives my sort of basic talking points.
They are gonna have to do a major stormwater permit. There is a hundred foot buffer zone that extends onto the site from the small wetland that runs along the bottom of the train track slope between, I don't know why that TV just disappeared on me. Speaker 1: It's not in riverfront on Speaker 3: Not riverfront, inter inter, if it is a stream quarter, they mapped it as BVW, which I'm not necessarily one to argue on that section that's Speaker 6: Done by the, the white D kind of up over the hill. Speaker 3: It's a, it's a small area of wetland that they've afforded a hundred foot buffer zone to. So there will, I'm assuming it's gonna be a major stormwater permit paired with an RDA given the fact
that it's all paved to begin with. It is a big project. There are some strong concerns from town staff about traffic assessments and impacts to traffic with Kendall Lane across the way because the entrance is proposed to remain at that signaled light right there. But obviously 219 units, that's, you know, at minimum 200 cars if we're feeling lucky, like 220 units, 200, Speaker 10: Maybe 400. Speaker 3: Well the, I believe there will only be one spot per unit
Speaker 1: Built. Not with $8 a gallon gas or only two. Yeah. So Speaker 3: The, this project has not yet opened with planning board yet. I'm trying to really get in early on this one. If folks would like to sit with this and chew on it for a little bit, we can definitely submit a comment letter after our meeting on the first. Speaker 1: I would suggest we do that. And okay. So so you, you provided a kind of a draft of a or like a a Speaker 3: It's just a, it's a template letter. Exactly. Speaker 1: A template letter. But I, but I, you know, what we need to provide are the additional comments down in the lower part of the letter. Speaker 3: Yeah. So the, the letter that I've drafted, notes
that the project does have wetlands jurisdiction, what that jurisdiction is, and that it will require permitting that the site does fall within the aquifer protection district, that it will trigger the stormwater management and erosion control bylaw and they'll need to apply out for a major permit. And then if there's any additional comments that folks wanna bring up, this is our op opportunity to do so. Speaker 1: So why don't we punt this to our next, our next meeting. We can take a look at these plans, two to one, the builder, the two to one replacement. I dunno, is the owner of that plaza down there? Who, right. Speaker 10: Who was the owner? Is Speaker 3: Mr. Franchi Speaker 1: French?
Speaker 10: You know, we've had some interesting things happen not only in Natick but in the area regarding reputations of some builders. Speaker 3: Well, so what I'll say is that he is selling this property to the people who are proposing to build this development. Speaker 10: That that's, then that would be interesting just to know who they are. Speaker 1: So the only plans that we currently have, Speaker 3: There's a plan set and a stormwater report. So there's two documents in general business discussion that are of Gables. Speaker 10: Okay. TetraTech Speaker 3: Is as the first word of the title. Yep. TetraTech is the engineer, Jim. Oh, okay.
I believe the developer is it usually says prepared for Speaker 1: Somewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, that Speaker 3: Little wetland. Oh, Gables Residential. That's the LLC, that's the, that they've created for, for the development. But the, like I said, this has not opened with planning board yet. We are really on the early end of this one. I think because there is wetlands jurisdiction and obviously stormwater jurisdiction, I really wanted to make sure that the commission saw these plans early. So again, the stormwater report and the plans are in that general business discussion folder. Speaker 1: So that's our, that's our homework for the next meeting.
Yep. Is to take a look at review those, start thinking about comments for the, for the letter that we would give to the planning board about our, Speaker 3: And this concerns, this hearing is due to open with the planning board next Wednesday. Okay. So if anybody's interested, the 25th I believe is that date. I do imagine there will be a number of planning board hearings on this project, just given some of the chatter that I've been hearing online about the, the volume of units. Okay. But this is, you know, one of the reasons that we were pursuing this form-based zoning in West Natick was to maybe not quite this size,
but to allow for these types of multiuse development with commercial and residential. Speaker 1: But this is, this is also not part of the MBTA? Speaker 3: No, the only natick center is MBTA communities. We did not pass that in West Natick. So this is not allowed by Wright, if that. Well it is allowed by Wright to a certain extent. There are some components of the project that they're proposing that do require planning board review, but in theory, the number of units that they're proposing is allowed by Wright. Yeah. Speaker 1: Okay. So we'll talk about that in our next meeting.
We had the community farm update, the federal earmark funding letter support. That's off the table for now. Speaker 3: Yes. The town is not, we are aiming to only pursue shovel-ready projects for community earmark funding. So that is a assessment and design project. So we are holding off on submitting that one. And the only other update that I have is that we were granted a gift from the EEA gods and the ECO one stop deadline for grants was extended till next Friday. Oh, nice. Which is great. Our applications are all done, but the system was moving so slowly.
I spent 20 minutes waiting for the next page of grant questions to load. So we're very excited. Those will all be submitted on Friday next week. And oh, I did get the email this morning. We did not get the community biodiversity grant that we had applied for. Apparently they had over 230 applications, but they are supposedly that is gonna be a cyclical grant that comes out every fiscal year. So I do hope to apply for that funding again in the future. Could Speaker 1: Be great. Anything else? Alright. 8:30 AM at Camp Mary Bunker on Saturday. Yeah. Yeah.
And we will go from there. If there's no other comments, happy to entertain a motion to adjourn. So moved. Thank you David. Is that seconded? Second. Thank you Jeff. Any further discussion? Those in favor? Done. Thank you. Thanks folks. Can you talk about.