Speaker 1: Yeah. All right. Well I got 7 0 1, so why don't we form, you know, get going on this. We've got a relatively short agenda this evening. First thing on the agenda is we're gonna go into executive session. Claire, this is actually my first executive session on Zoom. Absolutely. And you know, so what we need to do is we need, someone needs to make a motion to go into executive session in this case for the purpose of discussing potential real estate transactions. Then we'll do a roll call vote as we always do on Zoom anyway. And then we'll do a roll call, vote to go out of executive session. Someone will make a motion to exit executive session.
We'll do a roll call, vote to exit executive session, and then we'll, and then we'll go back into public meeting. So that's the process here. So if someone, and Claire, what is the best way to handle with folks who are not part of the commission during executive session? And sorry folks if you're listening, but do we just boot them temporarily on Zoom again? We ask 'em to leave the room or we lock the door and, yeah. You know, Speaker 2: Absolutely. I was just gonna give a brief warning. So John, Chris and Natick, Pegasus will all be, I'll put them into the waiting room for the meeting. Great. And they'll remain in there for folks. Chris and John, we don't expect this conversation
to take overly long. So if you guys wanna use a restroom break, we should be back Speaker 1: In short order. Speaker 2: In short order. Speaker 1: Okay. Alright. So with all that, so Claire, if you could take care of that with someone, make a motion for us to, to go into executive session for the purposes of discussing a potential real estate transaction. So moved. That was, was that you David? No, it was Chris. Chris. Oh, Chris. Yep. Tha thank you Chris. Is that seconded by anybody? Seconded. Thank you David. Is there any further discussion on this? All in favor of please of going into executive session. For the purposes of discussing a real estate transaction,
please say yes. When I call your name Doug. Sorry, Michael. Yes. Chris? Yes. David? Yes. And Matt? Yes. Select the minister meeting here this evening. What I'd like to do is, the first item in the agenda is certificate compliance for 40 Highland Street. Claire, if you could just talk us through this or is there anyone on the call representing 40 Highland? Speaker 2: Yeah, Chris Capi is on the call here today. Hey Chris. So coming Speaker 1: In, hello. Speaker 2: The commission issued a permit for this project in spring of last year. Several additions onto an existing single family home
adjacent to an isolated wetland and also an area that qualifies for isolated land subject to flooding. Much of the work was in outer buffer zone. The commission issued an order of conditions shortly after the precon, the sort of permit issuance, there was an issue with the erosion control placement that resulted in some additional vegetation clearing outside of the approved scope of work. Chris was re very quick to get additional fencing installed, get before the commission to discuss with me and the chair
and figure out what the mitigation was gonna be. A number of additional mitigation plantings and mitigation seed mix was installed in that disturbed area along with the originally required for mitigation saplings that were planted. Folks can see there are some photos in the Google Drive. I can pull that up now of some of the conditions for certificate of compliance, including the garage placard and these photos in which you can see not only some of those tree plantings, if you look really hard, you can see the shrub plantings in the back there.
And you can also see the installed markers along the wetland edge in this photo. There's just another angle of the trees. And so we do have our certification letter and an as-built plan. And the site does appear to be in substantial compliance with the, the order of conditions and the violation mitigation requirements. Speaker 1: Great. Chris, any comments from your side? Everything all buttoned up looking good with the property? It looks nice in the pictures. Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I think everything went smooth. Part of it was removing that, removing the gazebo. We did that too. And then we put some of that,
that wetland grass mix over there. Great. But everything on its own kind of just vegetated. Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's, yeah, it's funny how that works, right? Speaker 3: Yeah. Other than that, you know, we did the plants, we did the trees, we did the permeable walkway, we did the dry wells for the gutter. So Speaker 1: Looking good. Speaker 3: Good. Speaker 1: Alright. Any questions from the commission on this Speaker 4: Mike? The only question I have would be on process, do we need to vote about the enforcement order or does the certificate of compliance negate that need?
Speaker 2: There was no formal enforcement order because Chris was quick to comply with the notice of violation. The commission just chose to approve the mitigation planning as a minor plan change. So the certificate of compliance will wrap everything up. Speaker 4: Perfect. Thank you. Speaker 1: Of course. Okay. Any further questions for anybody? Hearing number someone, if it's a pleasure of the board, someone make a motion to issue the certificate of compliance for 40 Highland Street. So moved. Thank you Chris. Is that seconded? Seconded. Thank you David. Any further discussion on that? All this in favor does indicate by saying yes. Wanna call your name Mike? Yes. Chris? Yes. David? Yes.
Matt? Yes as well. Chris, thank you. Appreciate your your time. Let us know if anything comes up, but otherwise you got what you need from us. Okay. Thank you. Alright, take care. Yep. Alright. Next item on the agenda is I've got a continuation request for two 16 to two 18 South Main Street. The, the continuation was requested to May 22nd. Would someone make a motion to someone make a motion to continue two 16 to two 18 South Main Street to May 22nd. Speaker 2: Both filings, just to clarify, Speaker 1: Yeah. File. This is both stormwater and wetlands. So moved.
So moved. I'll take David then Mike as a second if that's all right. Any further discussion on that? All those in favor, please indicate by saying yes. When I call your name Mike. Yes. Chris? Yes. David? Yes. Matt? Yes as well. So those two are both continued here. That is the formal public hearing part of the meeting that we have here this evening. We've got some minutes to approve February 20th, March 6th. Does anyone have any edits that they would like to propose for those? Speaker 2: Oh, and I realized I put, I accidentally put the February 6th minutes on this agenda, but they were not done in time.
I was hoping that I was being optimistic that they would be. So we would just be approving February 20th and March 6th. Speaker 1: Okay. I don't see February 6th on the agenda though. Speaker 2: Oh, then maybe it is March 6th. Speaker 1: It's February 20th and March 6th is what's on Speaker 2: The, sorry, I, I have a typo on my agenda somehow. Oh, Speaker 1: So minutes for February 20th and March 6th. Does anyone have any edits changes to any of those? No. Hearing none. Someone will make a motion to approve the minutes from February 20th and March 6th moved. Thank you, David. Is that seconded? Second. Thank you Chris. Any further discussion? All those in favor, Mike? Yes.
Chris? Yes. David? Yes. Matt? Yes as well. All right, so those minutes are approved next time the agenda, general business discussion, beavers at Town Forest, Speaker 2: Our friend and Jim is also joining us. Speaker 1: Oh, great. Jim, let the minutes reflected Jim. Jim, Jim felt a, you know, brought, you know, brought us pleasure and decided to join us at I'm kidding. Welcome Jim. So Beavers Town Forest, I mean, as you guys know, you know, this has been an ongoing challenge for us and there is a, you know, water levels
are high. Beaver solutions has indicated that the beaver to sea device under Oak Street has been damned. The beavers have kind of learned how to deal with it. And so the question we have now is what do we do about it upstream, you know, upstream and into the PI pond area that plus the culvert under Route nine is causing, you know, there's, see there's very high water levels. That's what I was referring to and talking about Huntington f over there. And so, you know, and, and the water levels in Little Jennings or you know, in the little Jennings on the east and the west side of, on the West side Oak Street.
Yeah. So the question we've got now is, you know, are we at a place where removal of the beaver population in little Jennings in that area is, is worth, is worthwhile? So Claire, do you wanna add to that? Speaker 2: Yeah, just to start one quick note to my staff notes. I had noted that DPW staff in speaking with the highways division weren't too, too concerned about the water levels at this time. But when I was doing some additional research and prep to reach out to Mass Wildlife about the trapping permit, I recall
that there is, if folks remember, there's a sewer pump station right at this Oak Street parking lot. So I did have the water and sewer division head do a drive by out there. And he is, we'd like to keep a close eye on the water. So I'm gonna be stopping by on Monday next week after the rain that we get this weekend to, I'm sorry, I'm trying to get turned around. So we can look at the sewer pump station in relation to the, where am I? Speaker 1: Yep. Turn around. Go to the right, turn around to the right. Speaker 2: There's order.
Nope, I'm going the wrong way. I'm sorry. You're Speaker 1: Going the wrong way. Yeah, Speaker 2: There Speaker 1: It is. There it is. Speaker 2: So this is the sewer pump station that I'm referring to that folks can see here in terms of the parking lot elevation. Oh, and actually this is a very recent photo. So the water folks can see how high the water levels are. This was from March of 2025. And folks can see where the pump station is located. Tony does have concerns that if we're seeing this water approach bank height, he would consider it an emergency situation in terms of the potential for flooding out the fewer pump station. So we are keeping a close eye on that,
but I am still preparing the materials that we would need to send a mass wildlife if we were not qualifying under an emergency license. Speaker 1: So it sounds like right now we, we, you know, we don't qualify for an emergency license. Correct. Speaker 2: Yeah. So I did have Mike Boudreaux do a drive by out there. He did a drive by to a number of the neighborhoods. The state outlines very clearly in mass general law what is considered an emergency when it comes to beaver and muskrat activity. And there does need to be, you know, if not actual damage happening, the, the imminent potential
for, for damage to happen. And we are certainly getting closer with all this rain that we're seeing, but we are not quite at that point based on the health director's assessment on Monday of this week. So, like I said, we're all keeping a close eye on that property while I pull those materials together. Beaver Solutions should have the quote for trapping to me by the end of this week. And I did send an email to Marcus Hendricks with the nit muck tribe about potential trapping as well. So I think even if we do not qualify
for the emergency situation, I see us hopefully being in a position to resolve this issue through trapping by the end of the month. Speaker 1: Thoughts from the commission? You know, are we at the place where kind of spearhead spearheading, so to speak? Speaker 2: Oh, and I Matt, I'm sorry to interrupt. I realize we have members of the public here and I gave a rundown for the commission at the last meeting about the actual issue that we're facing. Would you like me to do another quick rundown of that for the members of the public who are here? Speaker 1: Yeah, why not? I mean, yeah, yeah. Go, go ahead and do that. Speaker 2: Yeah. So two years ago
when we saw the DAMing activity that was happening at the Oak Street Culvert and the impact on the water levels, we had an assessment done and it was determined that a beaver deceiver or a flow leveler device was an appropriate for that location. So we worked with Beaver Solutions to install two large culvert corrugated plastic pipes that go through the dam structure and our protected on the inlet side by a cage that when functioning correctly, prevents the beavers from feeling the flow of water entering that pipe, allowing water flow to be maintained
through the dam structure. So essentially peace with the beavers. And unfortunately we suspect likely because of the drought scenario, the beavers have become aware of the inlet pipes within the cages and have begun damming up the cage structures. 'cause it's that flow of water that triggers that instinct in them to build the dam. And so the cages are currently no longer accepting the normal flow that they would be accepting and that severe restriction. I, I do believe, based on my drive home today, I believe water levels are now high enough
that they are spilling over the beaver dam itself. But the cages themselves are really not conveying water as they should be. So unfortunately, because beavers are so territorial and we are not able to relocate beavers in the state of Massachusetts, if we remove the dam and the flow device, they'll just dam this area back up again. So the only option left is to trap the beavers per mass wildlife hunting and trapping regulations. Speaker 1: Thank you. That's basically the deal. You know, I mean, we've been deal dealing with
beavers in this, in little Jennings for more than five years now, it seems in various, in various ways. You know, they, they, they previously were upstream back where the old bridge was in the so-called North Trail was constructed, but then now they've since, since moved down. And so, you know, with water levels increasing in the, in the way that they are both on little Jennings, but also upstream in the pi pond area, you know, we're at a place where, you know, we need to make a decision, you know, do we continue to try to outsmart the beavers on that with, you know, the efforts
and costs that that entails? Is it the right time to say, okay, let's, let's trap and remove the beavers recognizing that, you know, more, more, more makeup. You know, there's, we have, we have options in front of us. The question is what do we wanna pursue there? So folks, what do you think from the commission side? Well, Speaker 5: I just had a question. Yeah. The, the group that we dealt with, I think it was like kind of over in the Woodland Street area over there. And then I thought somebody, you know, they went to the state to to, to block the dam removal. Did whatever happened with that one?
Did they ever end up trapping or Speaker 2: No. So no, the state issued a superseding determination stating that if they wanted to move forward with the Beaver Dam breach, they would have to file a notice of intent and no permit was ever filed so that that dam remains in place and unreached at this time. Speaker 1: Others thoughts? Speaker 6: So I, my personal views is time to trap the beavers. I mean, I have nothing against beavers, but they're not endangered. There's more of them. Yeah. They may very well come back, but I, I, I would vote to trap her.
Speaker 2: And the hope is that once we trap the beavers that are currently in residence in the lodge there, that the cages could be reset and reformatted in the hopes that in the future when new beavers populate that lodge, they are not aware of the cages. It is, it's not a guarantee. Beavers are unfortunately pretty smart. And so this may be a problem we're dealing with on a regular basis. But I do think that, you know, we had two pretty good years of management with the flow leveler device, and I'm, I'm hoping that this is an anomaly and not a regular occurrence.
Speaker 7: Will there be some, will there be some process to get out there in, at an, in interim basis afterwards, just to tear up any dams that appear or kind of preempt this stuff? Speaker 2: Yeah, so Beaver Solutions is planning to get out, I think the weather's what's been delaying them. They probably have some emergent calls that they're dealing with. They are planning to get out and do some di minimal debris removal that's just been carried and blocked up against the edges of the dam to try to restore some additional water flow in the interim. Speaker 7: Got it. Yeah.
And I meant follow up, like after you've done the trapping, so Speaker 2: The trapping, Speaker 1: So sort of clear it out and reset and reset the the equipment? Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Oh, the cages will be removed, fully cleared, and then any, the monitoring will likely pick up on a more regular basis following that reset, either by myself or by Beaver solution. So yeah, we'll definitely be keeping an eye on it to make sure that we're not immediately ending up in the same situation. Got it. Speaker 1: Michael, thoughts? Speaker 2: Oh, Mike, you're muted. You're on mute. Speaker 4: So I, you know, I, you know, I know we've had this discussion a few times
and you know, the, the trapping isn't gonna necessarily resolve this. So there's kind of two things that I'm, I'm looking at is, is that we heard earlier that there's issues at Ral Pond, right? And there's continuous, like this, this watershed goes all the way into, into Wayland, if not farther. And I guess I'm trying to figure out, you know, we're, we're focusing in on this problem here at Little Jennings, you know, where does the, where, you know,
where do we see a solution here, I guess is, is that, you know, if we have issues on the other side of Oak, excuse me, other side of Route nine around the ral pond, mud pond, et cetera, wetland complex and open space, you know, that connects into open space into Wayland. I can't remember the name of that, but it's adjacent to the Aqueduct Trail. I Speaker 2: Think it's Loker Field, if I'm remembering correctly. Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're Speaker 4: Right. So I guess what I'm, what I'm trying to wrap my head around is, is, you know,
I don't want to be the, the little boy with a fancy haircut putting fingers into dykes at this point because it, I'm trying to, a situation that inherently doesn't necessarily solves it, but is something that's, it creates a livable situation for the residents and the community surrounding this wonderful open space. And, and also is mindful that we're not having water levels that are creating issues with town infrastructure like the, you know, the, the sewer system there, right by town forest entrance on Oak Street.
So I guess like, I'll be honest with you, this is, you know, we, I know we think that this is maybe a simple solution, but I think it's a very complex question and a very complex problem. And simple solutions don't typically work for complex problems as far as my experience would indicate. And so I'm just looking for, you know, I'm all for controlling the situation and, and, and making sure that we're not harming residents, we're not harming public health and we're not harming town infrastructure
that inherently is necessary. But I also recognize that we have a huge piece of, of wetland and stream complex that goes for miles north of, of this current situation. So just a, just a perspective, it's not, you know, it's complicated Speaker 1: Kind of what, what it makes me think of Mike is the, you know, think global act local mantra in a sense. You know, I mean to under, to think about the kind
of holistically about the, the scope and scale of the challenge. I agree with you completely. I mean, this is a water, you know, this is a watershed issue. At the same time, we as a municipal agency or entity, you know, we're empower, you know, we're directly empowered to work within the boundaries of the town of Natick. We can certainly play a role in trying to find more, more holistic solutions to things. My sense is that the beavers are, you know, we've, we've spent a good bit of time and energy working to coexist with them.
To David's point, they're not an endangered species. There will be more, they will come if we have some levers to alleviate the local issue. You know, I think it's worth considering. And at the same time, continuing to think holistically about what, what's driving some of the water issues that we're seeing in general across Pick Pond and beyond. You know, I think a lot of it is climatic, you know, we've got a change in climate and, you know, changing what, what, you know, changing weather patterns as a result of it, you know, and, and, and there and there is also natural variability in
terms of water levels and stuff. Speaker 2: I'm wondering if maybe there's an opportunity to, and this is sort of separate of the issue we're discussing tonight at sort of the larger town issue that Mike brings up, is I, and I'm not here to volunteer richest time and I have no idea if he would be, be available for this, but I, I do wonder if maybe we have an opportunity to use the drone imagery technology that the town has available to it to try to e essentially map the beaver dams and lodges. Obviously not all of them are gonna be visible from the aerial views, but a lot of them are, especially
during the winter months. Would the commission feel like that would be valuable information to have to see that sort of bigger picture environment? Speaker 1: I think it would be, I mean, I think, I think any kind of visual, you know, we clearly obviously have a localized issue at Little Jennings under Rogue Street, and we know that that's impacting water levels there. We know that that's backing up into the Pi pond area. I think that's clear. Speaker 4: Is that however that I'm sorry, go ahead. Yeah, Speaker 1: I think it would behoove us to, to, you know, let's leverage the resources that we have and let's, let's continue to have that data.
'cause you know, at a minimum what it would do is give us a picture of what the, what the beaver reinforcements look like, you know? 'cause if we clear out a population at Little Jennings, you know, four or five of them when they get kicked out of the den are going to, you know, take the, the trip underneath the, the culvert. They can get through it and find a clear and open space there and they'll just come back and repopulate it. And hopefully we get two or three or four more years of them not knowing, not understanding the Beaver deceiver technology. And then we, you know, deal with that problem later. Speaker 7: Is there, is there any advantage, and I, you know, obviously this always costs something,
but is there an advantage to having a, a monitor, like a, a water troll, a level troll for, for the water levels in that area or in all the wetlands that we think are considered potential beaver issues? So we can see yes. If there is a, if that data changes? I know Speaker 2: That sounds like, like a The answer is yeah, is yes. And I actually am hoping to, as of Wednesday last week, our hazard mitigation plan was adopted by the select board opening us up to some great funding.
And part of the update to that process was pulling in all of the goals from the MVP Climate Resilience plan into the hazard mitigation plan, just to open up those additional funding sources. And one of those goals is stream monitors and water level monitors and critical water bodies. And that's absolutely something that I would be, I love to be prioritizing this year as we look to apply for grant funding because I think that it's such a valuable tool. I think that it would potentially alleviate an, a huge amount of work that our Public Works staff does
currently in terms of monitoring, you know, Culvers where there are known issues and things like that. So that is absolutely something that the town has identified as a priority and that I am hoping to work towards now that we have that plan adopted Speaker 1: All for data. You know. And then Speaker 4: May i, may I ask a question? Has, has anyone modeled these culverts to see if they're, they're sized adequately for NOA 14 data? Speaker 1: The ones under Route nine, mike? Speaker 4: So the one on Grove Street, the culvert on Grove Street, the one on Oak, the one under Route nine, and is a culvert, the right crossing? Is the, is that the right w you know,
should this be something else? Should it be, you know, something open an open box or, you know, some other spanned crossing that provides an opportunity to, you know, I, I'm not, I'm not a hydrologist, so I'm, I'll defer to the, the hydris hydrologist in the group, but I'm just wondering if anybody's run numbers stream CAD numbers or, you know, on, on some of these culvert sizes. 'cause it, some of this just seems,
you know, I don't know what Doug, I've, I've lived here a long time. You've lived here a long time. I've fallen through the ice on Big Jennings Pond and Little Jennings Pond and it's never been a pond that has been very deep from my recollection. And it looks like I could actually swim in Jennings at this point. So, oh, Speaker 2: Mike, you absolutely could. And I, I do think that I have not run the numbers. We did try to do a, a knack evaluation of the Route nine crossing be, but because of how flooded and obstructed it was, we weren't able to perform a full assessment. If I, if I, I would put money on the fact that none
of these culverts are appropriately sized for the watershed that they're trying to convey. Speaker 1: Especially Speaker 7: The d the DOT should have those things on a plan somewhere with the inner diameters and the, the shape, I Speaker 2: Would think, yeah, for the Route nine culvert. Definitely. Speaker 1: And then the one under Route nine we know is we know is compromised anyway, you know, I mean they, they they jetted out a little, little chunk to squeeze some pipes through, but it's on their agenda this summer to blast it all out and really clean it out properly. Speaker 2: Oh, and they did, they did a full cleaning last summer as well. Eight trucks worth of material was vacuum.
Speaker 1: Was that a, was that a full cleaning though? I thought that was only partial. Speaker 2: So it was a partial cleaning because of the way that they are cleaning it, which is that they are restricted to vectoring out the catch basin structures that are within the right of way. So they vectored out everything that they could, and then the, the theory is that the sediment then moves and resettles and then they can come back this year and factor, hopefully the remainder. Speaker 4: I mean, is there, I mean there's other, you know, there's nature-based solutions. There's a Wendy's that's sinking into the swamp. Is there a consideration? I mean, that's all stormwater Yeah. Storage. It is.
That is now in asphalt. Speaker 7: Those, those lower and those, the veterinarian place, I mean those are all those, those have limited lifespans. There's, they're not gonna be here in 10 years. Speaker 2: Wendy, the town Wendy has been engaging with Wendy's specifically about the refrigeration units at the, Speaker 1: Because those will tip over into the wetlands any day Now, Speaker 2: As one can imagine, a national corporation is not the easiest to engage with. Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just, I'm thinking of just creative nature. You know, I, I love my friendly engineers, but I I'm thinking that nature can maybe help us a little bit with some
of this, you know, removing some impervious, inherently having crossing structures with either, you know, in, you know, either with wetlands constructed or enhanced wetlands that are already there, you know, to provide the storm water storage capacity that maybe is lacking because of the in impervious areas in, in some of the, in some of this watershed. It, it, yeah. Speaker 2: Matt, we do have one of the members of the public looking to Yep.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give 'em a chance. Any other questions or comments from the commission right now? All right, Mr. Templeton, what do you got? Speaker 8: Well, first of all, I, the very interesting conversation and I have communicated with Clear via email, so that's why I came onto this. 'cause I knew you gentlemen and lady we're gonna have a meeting. I live next to that culvert and I'm, I spotted that problem a couple of weeks ago. So I've been in communication with the highway department as well as with Claire. I'm, I'm happy to hear that you guys want to get the beavers out of there. There's also a couple of muskrats that I've seen swimming around in one of the, that water has come very, very close
to the sidewalk on Route nine heading towards culvert. And what's my main concern is, is because that water table is so high and I happen to live in the lowest part of that area, I'm beginning to see, not puddles in my cellar, but lines with a wa the table. I know I have a high, I have two sum pumps in my cellar. Speaker 1: What street do you live on, Mr. Templeton? Speaker 8: I live on Gibbs Street right off of Center Street. Got Speaker 1: It. Okay. Speaker 8: So if you come in on center, you're on a little bit of a rise and if you take a right onto Gibb Street, I'm right at the very end of that
and that's where I don't see anybody else pumping in the neighborhood. I seem to catch it all, but I really do appreciate the conversation. I'm glad to hear that you're pretty much in favor of trying to trap these beavers. And I knew that there was a clean out of the culvert that Brian Casey told me about. So, you know, all I can tell you is, you know, I'd be more than happy to see something done to get that water to drain. Even if the dam that the, the beavers built, that's, you can see it from the culvert 'cause a big dam that they built.
And I don't know if it's a beaver dam or if it's a muskrat dam, all I know is it's a dam and I've actually seen the muskrats, I have not seen a beaver except for the one that was flattened on Route nine a couple of weeks ago. Speaker 2: I I was gonna make a comment that I don't know if they're making it through that culvert. 'cause I do unfortunately regularly see conflicts on Route nine. Yeah. Speaker 8: Yeah. So that's all I just wanted to, you know, appreciate that, appreciate the conversation and give you my, my sense of it. And I told the neighbors that have asked me about what's all this water that I would,
was gonna try and join the meeting and let them know what was said. That's all good. So Speaker 2: I appreciate And Larry, I Speaker 8: Go ahead. Speaker 2: I was just gonna say anyone with questions, you're also welcome to direct 'em to me that, that's part of my job here at the town is to help get the information they're looking for for Speaker 8: Yeah, I appreciate that. It's hopefully in the next couple of weeks after these monsoons have left us, we'll see a, a reduction in, in the table. I don't agree though, however that what it's at an emer not at an emergency level if, I think it depends on where you live. It, you know, just looking at the bank of the pond doesn't answer the question, you know?
Speaker 2: Yeah. And Larry, I'm going based off the state definition, so I no, I would agree that there's certainly conditions that would for the, the homeowners feel like emergency. Absolutely. Speaker 8: Okay, that's Speaker 1: All. Thanks Larry. Appreciate Speaker 8: Very much. Appreciate it. Speaker 1: Alright guys, so where do we stand? I mean, and, and clear process. So process would be that we would authorize you on our behalf, if, if this is the pleasure of the commission, we authorize you on our behalf to start the permitting process with Mass Wildlife for Beaver removal. Speaker 2: And that'll either be through the 10 day emergency permit
or the traditional permitting process, depending on how the water levels go for the next week or so. Speaker 1: So that's, that's that. And then, so that would be, that would be a process that would take a little bit of time if, obviously if the 10 day emergency thing was granted, if, if they bought into that, it sounds like they might not simply because water department's not claiming an emergency at this point because of the proximity, you know, but all that being said, that could change. But, you know, I think Speaker 8: Isn't there a sewer pumping station right there at right next, right by the, Speaker 1: The entrance of Town Forest. Speaker 2: There's also, I think Larry's
referring to, there's a sewer pump. There's one Speaker 8: On Ro Speaker 2: At the Roche Ba Boy Furniture store. Right? Right on the north side of Route nine, Larry, that one is raised a little bit more because of the, where it's, because it was set next to a wetland originally. Yeah, they raised that one up a little bit more, but we are keeping an eye on that one as well. Speaker 8: Yeah, I'll bet you it's wet now. Speaker 1: So with that, what's the pleasure of the board? I mean, we wanna, you know, we can make a motion and vote to authorize Claire on our behalf to go and to start the permitting process with Mass Wildlife. Any other suggestions at this point? That's where we're at. Someone wanna make that motion?
So moved. Okay. David, is that seconded by anybody? Speaker 8: I'd second that, Speaker 1: Yeah. All right, Chris, any further discussion on that? Last points? Hearing None. Motion was made by David, seconded by Chris to authorize Claire on our behalf to go and start the Beaver removal permit process with Mass Wildlife. All those in favor please indicate by saying yes. Wanna call your name? David? Yes. Michael? Yes. Jim. Yeah. Chris? Yes. All right. Matt's a yes as well, so Claire, get to it.
If you and I need to talk about anything, let me know. Speaker 2: Absolutely. I'll definitely make to follow up. Speaker 1: Well, let's get, let's get cracking on this and, and, and see where that takes us. I would just, one last comment and that is that as, as y'all know, you know, activities like this beaver removal do have, do sometimes, you know, sometimes can be controversial and you know, I think that we would be obligated to notice this Yes. Make people aware that this is gonna happen. There will likely be some outcry, you know, if we have a permit, it doesn't mean that we use the permit,
although I think it's the intention of the board. If we get the permit, we're gonna use it for these purposes. But it, but there will be, you know, there will be some opportunity for public comment if, if desired. If people wanna comment on it though, you know, there'll be an opportunity to do that before the Beaver Act. The, the beaver trapping activity actually happens. Speaker 2: Matt, we'll touch base with you on how we wanna move forward with that. Okay. Whether we wanna do letters or emails or, or how we Speaker 1: Wanna do that, we'll figure it out. Yep. Alright. So we, so Claire's on the, on the, on the path, you know, to, to do Speaker 4: This. Who's the final say in that? But I mean, is it the Board of Health or is it us Speaker 2: Who, who, so the trapping
of beavers falls wholly under the jurisdiction of Mass Wildlife as delegated to local boards of health. So, Speaker 1: So, Speaker 4: So like we can, we can say, you know, let's go ahead. But the Board of Health could say No, that's Speaker 1: Fair. That's fair, Mike. Yeah, that's fair. And it would be a, then there would be a public hearing process for them as well, you know, in order to move ahead with this. And actually that, that raises a good question, Claire. I mean, are we, are we, we, is the Conservation commission the right entity to be going to Mass Wildlife and seeking this, this approval?
Or is this, is this something where we're asking you to go to the Board of Health who then does it on the time NAICS behalf? Speaker 2: So I see this almost as the commission authorizing me as a town staff member to approach, essentially there's, essentially to make it happen processes. Exactly. So if I would be requesting on behalf of the town to the Board of Health to authorize the emergency certification. If we don't qualify for an emergency, the process is that they deny that request and then we appeal to Mass Wildlife who would then issue us a standard approval. Got
Speaker 1: It. Okay. Not Speaker 2: An emergency approval. Speaker 1: So Speaker 4: We're, so the applicant is the town, or is it the Town Board of Health, I guess is my, Speaker 2: The applicant would be the town of Natick. Okay. Specifically the Conservation Commission. And likely the public works as a joint request. Speaker 4: And then as the applicant, we would go to the Board of Health and ask permission to trap the beavers. Is that how the, I'm just trying to figure out who's what, who's wagging the dog, I guess. Speaker 2: Oh, of course. And actually in our folder under general business discussion, there's a folder called Beavers.
Okay. And there's actually a really great document, February 14th, 2001. It's called the Guide for Boards of Health implementing MGL 1 31, section 80 A, which is the, the ber trapping. So I, I'm just gonna read directly from that, which is any person may apply to the Board of Health for an emergency permit to immediately alleviate the threat to human health and safety from Beaver or muskrat related activities. There's a number of different requirements about what constitutes a threat to human health and safety, IE and emergency, and then it's, if the Board
of Health determines that such a threat exists, the board shall immediately issue an emergency permit to alleviate that threat. So that's usually done by the staff representatives that sit on the Board of Health. They go out and inspect and determine if that emergency to immediately issue that permit, similar to our emergency certifications, that's then usually ratified by the full Board of Health at their next meeting. If we qualify for the emergency permit, we have 10 consecutive days to enact that, but we can request a 30 day extension. If the board determines that such effect does not exist, the board will deny the permit
and specify the reasons for denial. In the case of a denial, the board shall inform the applicant that we can employ one of the following appeal to the State Department of Public Health for determination as to the existence of a threat appeal to the Department of Fish and Wildlife. If there's a question about cause of the threat or contact the, the Division of Fisheries of Wildlife for assistance with solutions covered under non-health or safety threat section of the law. Speaker 1: But it sounds like Claire though, that that the way that's worded is that any resident Oh, absolutely. Initiate the process and Larry put that in your, you know,
put that in your quiver. And Speaker 2: So that was essentially, if folks were called back on Clover Terrace, those applicants had originally That's right. Requested that emergency trapping permit and the Board of Health suspended the, the initial approval on further investigation because there did not, again, meet those requirements that's outlined in the law of a threat to human health and safety. Speaker 1: Well, and, and a local and a resident. Another abutter lawyered up and Speaker 2: Yes, there there's certainly other, other contributing factors as well. Right. Speaker 1: So, so Speaker 2: It is not a clearly,
I will say this right off the bat, it is not a clearly defined or regulated process. It is very, I'm we're relying on a lot of guidance documents, flow charts from the state. Correct. But there are, it, it seems like a very much a gray area process in terms of how it unfolds. Speaker 1: So Larry, it sounds like Yeah, what, you know, you've got, you know, any resident can, can initiate this process. You've got a conservation commission who is sympathetic to your cause. Why don't you let us run interference on this for now, you know, and if it turns out in a direction that you doesn't make sense,
or if you're not happy with our speed in moving with this, then you've got every right to go and to initiate the process itself. But we're gonna, we're gonna get going on this as we just voted to, to make this happen. You Speaker 8: Can always add my name to that. Whatever it is, you're going to s support and I invite anybody who wants to come into my basement to come over, Speaker 1: We're gonna be signing your name to all kinds of stuff now. Larry, be careful what you wish for. Okay. As long Speaker 4: As I get what I need, I'm okay with Speaker 1: That. Fair. So, okay, Speaker 4: Claire, just so you'll go to Fish and Wildlife and then once that permit whatever the permit is issued,
then that would be the step that we would then apply to the Board of Health, the Conservation Commission as the care custody of the Town Forest and pick pond, et cetera, would apply to the Board of Health. And then they would determine whether or not we have standing. Is that kind of how I'm understanding it? Speaker 2: Exactly. Yep. Speaker 1: That's how I read it. Speaker 4: Excellent. Speaker 1: All right. We good on this? Any other questions? Thank you very much, Larry. We'll keep you posted. Thank you. All right, let's move on then, folks. Thanks. All right. Other general business discussion, Claire? Glad guide to lake management review and comment, period. Speaker 2: Yeah, so I don't know if folks had had a chance
to review the, the new guide that was released. I know I had forwarded around by email a few weeks ago. Overall in reading through the plan, I didn't have any substantial comments. I think it's a, a very well put together document. I am actually interested in diving into it more when it comes to the water bodies that the commission, and I apologize, I have a cat trying to get into the room. So if folks here scratching behind me, that's what it is on the water bodies that the commission has jurisdiction over, like things like pick pond, I think Little Jennings Pond, big Jennings Pond, which isn't technically ComCom, but it's general town of Natick as it's not a great pond.
I think that there's a lot of opportunities for us to implement the guidance in that document as we move forward. Speaker 1: I took a scan through it on an airplane recently and it's, and I, I, I agree. I I didn't, I didn't have any substantial comments for it, so, okay. Pick upon connector bridge. Speaker 2: Yeah. So this, I'm just gonna keep this on the agenda as a standing item until we get that notice of intent filed. I but believe the last update that I gave the commission was that we were looking to file our notice of intent. I had reached out to DEP in an effort to be proactive about potential limited project status
and unknowingly opened a little bit of a can of worms. Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you what the status of that was. Yep. Speaker 2: So according to the state list and my GIS measurements, picker pond would not qualify as a great pond because it falls under 10 acres in size. The waterways program at DEP has records from 1914 that records the pond at 10 acres, which means that in the past it may have qualified as a great pond. So they have asked us to file a determination of applicability to chapter 91 to get a formal determination
of whether or not the pond qualifies as a great pond and therefore would fall under Chapter 91 jurisdiction. Speaker 1: Who does that? Who does that? RDA Is that us? Speaker 2: It'll be me, essentially a, as the sort of representative of the commission. It is not the news that I was hoping to hear. I was hoping No, but but you have Yeah, go ahead. Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, Claire, but, but who, who, who, who, I mean, it's a determination of applicability. So someone, an entity has to issue that determination. Would that be us with your input? Oh, no. Speaker 2: So this is not a request
for determination of applicability. This is a determination of applicability application to chapter 91. So it's WW oh four is the permit code. So this is not something that's being reviewed under the wetlands regulations at all. This is under the chapter 91 waterways program. Speaker 1: Oh, got it. So it's, so the state then issues the determination based on evidence that you provide. Speaker 2: Exactly. Got Speaker 1: It. Speaker 2: Okay. So I am working to prepare that application right now. I'm hoping to have it in by the end of the week. This is definitely a wrench in the timing of our plan.
I have already reached out to Melissa Kry and the requested an extension, which has been approved contract amendments signed to give us an additional year with our funding because the chapter 91 process is not a speedy one. And I, yeah, I see Mike shaking his head. And so this was definitely an unexpected wrench in things, but I am, I'm still working on the notice of intent application. You know, we're still trying to move forward at every pace that we can. DEP wetlands has said that we should not file our notice of intent until we get that determination.
'cause obviously it will impact the overall permitting processes that we have to go through if we are determined to be a great pond. But I just wanted to give the commission that rather unfortunate update. Speaker 1: Okay. So, so that means though, that likely the, the bridge would not be installed this summer. Speaker 2: I, we can have hope. Okay. I think the, the beauty of the floating boardwalk is that if we are approved for installation under all the required regulatory processes, we are less limited by time of year as we are
with traditional stick bill boardwalks because we're less tied to low water levels in order to be able to really complete that work most effectively, Speaker 1: What would be the implications of it being found as a great pond? Speaker 2: It means that we would have to get a Chapter 91 license for a water dependent use structure. Speaker 1: And is that something that is a straightforward process for something like a floating bridge? Speaker 2: No. Speaker 1: Okay. Speaker 2: Unfortunately not the currently, there have been no floating boardwalks permitted under Chapter 91. Oh. This was something I was not aware of
and something that unfortunately, Priscilla, the Marlborough agent did not make me aware of, is the Marlborough one did not receive a chapter 91 permit. I don't know how that process unfolded, but that bridge did not receive a chapter 91 license. So we And the one that was installed in Speaker 1: Franklin, Speaker 2: Yes, Franklin, I was gonna say Devon's, but I knew that wasn't right in my head in Franklin is not on a great pond, that water body is significantly smaller. So this would be, unfortunately, a little bit of uncharted territory, which is why it is a rather unfortunate update for this project. Speaker 1: Okay. Do your job. Speaker 2: I am,
I will absolutely make every effort to convince the state that this is a worthwhile project and that they should not get in our way. Speaker 1: All right. Good. Any other updates from, from community and economic development? Speaker 2: I gave one a little bit earlier that was just a tangent, tangential update that our hazard mitigation plan has been adopted by the select board. We received our FEMA notice that they have received that adoption. So we are in the clear for hazard mitigation for another five years. Other updates last night at the town meeting that the town did vote to adopt the new flood plain overlay
district bylaw that we were working on. So that bylaw update has also been sent to the state for their records and our continued inclusion in the National Flood Insurance program. Other substantial updates. We had a very initial meeting with Feldman, the firm doing the ground penetrating radar work on the constituent aqueduct. They were able to get very good data for one of the manholes we were looking for. Unfortunately, some standing water following rain obstructed their ability to get data about the second one. So they completed a half day of work.
And I'll be looking to do another half day of work at the end of this month when things hopefully dry up a little bit more. But the data that we got from the initial half day of work was very positive looking in terms of our ability to access and bring equipment into the aqueduct trail without impeding or without causing damage to the actual aqueduct pipe itself. So I'll, we should have the final report on that for the commission early June. Speaker 1: Great. Super. Thank you for that. Speaker 2: And last but not least, I will have this on our next agenda.
'cause I just got it the beginning of this week after I had published this agenda. But we have received the final report. David heard a little bit about this at the open space advisory committee meeting a couple of weeks ago. But we've received now the final report on the Sudbury Aqueduct feasibility study. So I'll do a full presentation on the commission to that at our next meeting. Sort of walk through the different alignments that Bob reviewed, the potential, you know, private property engagement that would need to happen to move forward and some of the challenges that we face
specifically right at the sherburne line because of the wetlands. Speaker 1: Super. Speaker 2: And that was it for me. Speaker 1: All right. Anything else, folks? Speaker 9: So Claire, do you want full length beaver coat? Speaker 1: All right. With, with that input. Next, next I Speaker 7: I, I was gonna bring up wolves. Bring, introducing reintroducing wolves. Oh, there we go. Speaker 1: Next meeting's on May 22nd. And that'll be in person, presumably, unless we here otherwise. So with that, someone make a motion to adjourn. Speaker 7: Move adjourn. Speaker 1: I'll, I'll take Jim's motion, Chris's second. Any further discussion on that? All in favor, raise your hand. Thank you. See you guys.
You well, thanks everybody. Take care, Chris. Take Speaker 7: Everyone. Bye.