Speaker 1: Welcome everybody to July 1st, my God, July 20, 26, meeting of the planning board at seven o'clock. First item of business is always as, as always, public speak. So if there's any individual in person here or online who wishes to speak, this is your opportunity. The section of the agenda is limited to 15 minutes. If there's anybody who wishes to speak and you're wishing you can say whatever you would like for five minutes. There's no opportunity for debate. It's just simply public speak. So is there anybody in the audience who would like to
take the microphone for public speak? Seeing none, anybody? I online, Speaker 2: I not seeing any hands? Speaker 1: No hands. Okay. Any board members? Someone dinged. Okay. Okay. Speaker 2: We're very amenable today. Speaker 1: We'll move on. So, fairly light agenda. The only thing we really have here is the continued public hearing for 2 73 West Central Street in West Natick. This is the second hearing for this project. Mr. Denson had missed the first meeting, but you have watched the Mullin,
the Pegasus recording and filed the Mullin affidavit, so you are able to, to sit here tonight. So that, that's great. I'm legal. Okay. You're legal. So yeah. So again, this is the second hearing for folks who missed the first one. I dunno, when was it? March when? When was that? March 25th. I think it's a while ago. So I know that the development team's been hard at work with coordinating with the development review, review team design, review board. You've been lots of places here in town doing the homework to get here tonight. So we much very much appreciate all that homework. Lots of new information that's been submitted.
We've, I've seen it, it's all up on the, on the website here. So I think what we'll do tonight is have you run through the information, whatever's new planning a board will get to ask additional questions. Anybody from the public after that will, will take, you know, questions and answers for that as well. But I do want to just set an expectation. I think, you know, let's, let's hear what you got tonight. I think there's a lot of information. You've got a few steps to go through with the conservation commission. I know design, review board, et cetera. So I don't expect we're going to close the hearing tonight, but I think we are on a very good
track here with this project. I think there's been a lot of great work done. And so I don't think we're gonna, I personally don't think we're gonna be prolonging this, you know, long, longer. But I just wanna set that expectation tonight that I think we'll, we'll hear what you guys have to present and keep moving this thing forward. So if we can all agree, let's have the development team come forward and give your presentation. Please identify yourself, who you're representing and take it away. Make sure the green lights are lit. Yes. On the mic. Speaker 3: Can you hear me? Yes. Speaker 1: Yes. Is the green light on Mr. Faye?
Speaker 4: It's just Speaker 1: The public. Jamie. Jamie is the green light on? Great, thanks. Speaker 3: Yep. Take one second here just to get Yes, no problem. Set up, if you don't mind. Speaker 4: Call called guest. Is it just, yeah, I think it's guest. I think it used the same meeting somewhere. Yeah, it's changed quite a bit because I used to make for a while was the, Speaker 1: Is that for power? Yes. Yeah, Speaker 4: I have to join the online immediately as well. Speaker 3: Well, why don't, I'll just jump in as we're waiting for this to get connected and set up. Thank you all, appreciate your time on a
1st of July hot night. Be doing better things I'm sure than sitting in this room. But we appreciate your time and attention and you know, as, as the chair said, I think we've done a tremendous amount of work since we met with you last in March. It's about four months. We've spent a lot of time, a lot of time working on this and answering questions and responding, recording Speaker 4: In progress, Speaker 3: Reaching out to folks. So I think we'll just kind of try to review all that with you tonight and then we can see where we sit.
Lemme just start by introductions. I wanna say we have our full team here tonight. We want to make sure that if you had any questions that we had folks who could respond tonight to those questions and not have to chase anything down. So on behalf of the applicant, Gables Residential, we have Jorgen pda and Eddie, Peter and Josh, she from the architectural team. We have Brian O'Connor on the landscape front from Copley Wolf, design Group, Ian Remy
and from Tetra Tech who's covering both civil and traffic. We have Nate, Gil and Courtney ak and didn't introduce myself. I'm Jamie Faye with Fort Point Associates and I have Na King here who's working with me. And then last but certainly not least, Greg Sampson from Sullivan and Worcester. So with that overview and introduction, maybe just give you a quick sense of what we'd like to cover tonight, but obviously you jump in at any point if there are things that you want us to respond to or talk about.
But we just thought we'd give an overview of the project, mostly talk about what has happened in the last four months and how we've been proceeding with the project. Talk about the changes to the landscape and architecture site design since our initial presentation to you, again based on feedback both from town officials and from other boards and commissions. And then address three specific things that were requested. One truck turning movements through the site, updated traffic study, and then some alternatives in terms of how we deal
with the sidewalk and along the street. And then obviously any questions or comments that you might have. So with that, I'll move on. Just again, quick reminder, quick update. The project really is very much similar to in program and size, massing to what you saw previously in March five story building. Essentially four residential levels over a first floor podium, which is in part exposed, but in part underground due to the topography of the site.
219 residential units with a mix of unit sizes, about 4,000 square feet of non-residential space on the ground floor facing West Central Street, kind of a public space, a big plaza and shared use path out front. A significant public amenity connector pathway leading to the MBTA station for folks, not some folks in this project, but also generally the neighborhood will be a good, good way to get into that station site, which right now they have
to walk through the, through the parking lot and same amount of parking that we previously had. So with that we have spent a lot of time, as I said, trying to work through issues that have been raised, both with other boards and commissions, but also with town staff. Amanda's been great and working with us, connecting us with the town department heads and facilitating meetings and keeping us up to date on what the town is thinking
and what their comments are. So we wanted to not rush to come back to this meeting. We really wanted to take the time, try to address all the issues and do all the studies so that you have a complete package. So you're ready to move forward with this. We did submit, you know, everything that we're working on, on, on through the town website, so that's all available and hopefully you had a chance to review that information. We did provide a response to comments through all the comments that we received from the town department heads we have filed, as well as part of our package.
Acoustical studies, shadow studies, supplemental traffic studies that the planning board in particular asked for. We'll present that later and updated design plans. So hopefully all of you have had a chance to review that. You know what, what we've really been hearing and working on first from the planning board, you had issues about, you know, landscape and circulation, traffic concerns, parking overflow management update, you know, from the MBTA and our discussions, the MBTA, there were other issues as well, but those are sort of some of the highlights
from the townside. Through the design review team, we had a number of comments on traffic and parking, utilities, drainage, water, sewer wetlands, fire truck circulation, hydrant locations, water pressure flows and testing, soil evaluation. A lot of very technical comments that I think we've tried to respond to and did additional work on. On the design review board, we've had several, actually three meetings in total with them. A pre-filing meeting, a formal meeting, and then kind of a follow up meeting.
A lot of really good dialogue, a lot of really good comments. I would say, just to kind of summarize some of their main points, they really wanted an identifiable kind of signature entryway to the building. We spent a lot of time working on how that the residential entrance looks. They spent a lot of time talking about the non-residential space and how that works, how it relates to the plaza, how the visual appearance of it, the identity of it, identification of the entryway into that area was very important.
So we've made a number of changes that we'll present later tonight. A lot of focus on the MBTA pathway along the building. They didn't want it just to be a straight line, kind of paved sidewalk. They wanted something more placemaking in nature. We talked about balconies, adding, subtracting balconies in different locations, general facade and parapets, a whole bunch of design issues relating to the building. And we'll present those to you tonight. But I think a very, very productive series of meetings. We've met with the conservation commission we filed
with them, we've met with them. Their main concern, again, not a lot of wetlands on this site, is really just offsite to the rear along the railroad tracks where there's some, some wetlands vegetation. So most of their focus was just kind of on the back slope of the site. But they did, they did ask us to make sure we could preserve a couple of major mature trees on the back of the site, talk about erosion control. They actually did not want to take final action until after you guys have acted so they didn't want to approve. They, they're willing, kind of ready to prove us,
but wanted to wait to see if you guys are making any changes. So we're gonna go back to them after later. And we have filed our storm water report with 'em. We've also met with the MBTA, we filed for our zone of influence approvals there. Had good meeting with 'em. I think we're, we're headed in a good direction. So we've had, I dunno, probably a dozen or more 15 meetings with different groups in town. And looking forward to being in position now to kinda share with you the cumulative
process that led to the current design as we now understand it. So if there are any questions, I'll take 'em. Speaker 5: I just have one question. Do we have a copy of the DRB recommendation? Speaker 3: Yes, the letter just came in I think today or yesterday. Yep. Yeah, Speaker 6: I also, Speaker 7: It was in the email and then it should, it was also, it was in your email and then it was also uploaded this afternoon, like before the Speaker 8: Meeting. Okay. Okay. Speaker 1: And yeah, and appreciate the sort of memo that four point put together updating all of that. I think there was some commentary about the DRB
and some of the deliberations, so I think it's reflected in the, in the letter. So I Peter Speaker 6: Yes. To assume then the DRB comments have not yet been implemented. Speaker 3: Yeah, we're gonna get to that. That's our next topic we're Speaker 6: Gonna get as part of tonight's presentation. Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, thanks. Quick answer is yes, they have been, we have, what you're seeing is, is a reflection of what those comments have been. Thank you. So, okay, great. I'm going to turn it over now to Brian and he can walk you through. Speaker 8: Thanks Jamie. Brian O'Connor, founding partner of Cube three architects.
Just, just, this should be fairly quick. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take you through two primary images here and what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna really focus on the six sort of core changes that we see in the building. We've spent a lot of time really working on refining, cleaning up and really just, you know, energizing the design so that it all works together even more tightly than it did before. I think as Jamie mentioned, probably the two most important focal areas are the main entry over on the right hand side that you can see in this image has gone from two stories to three stories,
which we think does two things. It creates a little bit of a stronger street presence. The scale is still very street appropriate, gives it a little more of a voice on the street. And at the same time the proportions of that piece relative to the rest of the building actually feel a a little bit more comfortable with each other than before. We've also spent a lot of time in that area working on the detailing in the brick and really thinking about what that pedestrian scale feels like, enhancing the, the quantity of brick in that area and really paying attention both
to the ground plane all the way up to the top in that darker area. The, the other thing you'll see is sort of, I'm gonna jump to the next image and then sort of jump back and forth a little bit on the left hand side of this image down low against the street is the non-residential entry area. And we've spent a, a, a really significant amount of time here looking at window patterning, texture fenestration, the detailing again in the materials to make sure that we're creating a strong sense of entry. We, we listened a lot to some of the comments from the DRB and what we've done now is we've actually increased the size
and quality of the glazing down at that lower level. And we've aligned it in the past iterations. It was really almost an independent element that sort of did its own thing. And what we've done now is even though we've in increased the glazing, we've aligned it with the rhythm and the texture and the patterning of the building above, which we think really makes the overall design a little bit more cohesive. Also focused a little bit more on signage, location and lighting canopy, you know, focus of the entry and how it connects back to the plaza area. So really the main entry, the non-residential area,
really a heavy focus on the detailing of the building and the brick detailing. You may also notice that the window patterning in the building, which is something that's been really important to us. And the design team all along has continued to evolve it, it hasn't stayed static. So we're playing again with a, a really how the window grouped together, how they feel in the facade to create rhythm and texture that does not read like singular individual punch windows. We want the building to ever really wrong, strong read. So the size, character position
of the windows have moved around a little bit. This front facade on the left hand side at one point also had another color palette to it. And I don't know if you remember, but there was sort of some thought that maybe the building was trying to do a little bit too much. So what we did is we really focused on sophistication and simplification, a little bit of the material and color palette. And so now as the building kind of wraps around the corner on the left hand side, that is the same sort of color and palette of the material on the balance of the facade, which we think really again, makes
for a more cohesive and connected building. We also focused on, on two other things. One is, right Speaker 1: One, one question. Yep. Sorry. Yep. On just stay there on that one. Oh, sorry. And I'm, by the way, I'm looking at a monitor here. Speaker 6: Yeah, we are, we are. Great. Speaker 1: It's not avoiding eye contact, right? The, the ground floor between the non-residential right? Yep. Where it's coming down, what's, what's going on in that, that space there? So that is residential units or is that also non-residential? That's Speaker 8: Also non-residential amenity space. And what you'll notice is the windows down there are actually larger than the residential windows above.
They come down closer to the grade. There is a continuous band of the darker brick that does tie these elements together. But what we wanted to do is make sure that there was a clear delineation between the residential entry and the non-residential entry. So we deliberately broke that. Got it. Yeah. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 6: What is happening in the two floors above the main entrance? This new main entry? Speaker 8: Yeah, that's, that's a great question. So there's, there's actually residential units above those and so one of the things we wanted to do is really to make sure that window patterning
and texture felt substantial and felt cohesive. We wanted to carry that window patterning up and the scale and the size of those window openings. So Speaker 6: You feel it's being, it it's is obvious and seeing that it's matching the upper levels Correct. 'cause it's very different. Correct. Dark and light and, yep. And what about any concern for where the main entrance is here versus what I assume will be a variety of signage all along the, the long leg with the, in the commercial Speaker 8: With the other non-residential use?
Yeah. Yeah. I, I think we, we thought a lot about how this plaza feels and what the purpose and intent of the plaza is and we really wanted it to feel like an extension of that community path. And you'll, you'll hear Ian talk about this a little bit more in depth and, and I think the idea was to create a residential entry that is prominent and, and really important along that edge, but also not overwhelm the non-residential use. So when you come into the site, you actually come, I dunno if you can see it better in the other image,
you sort of enter the site through the driveway, you're actually more focused on the non-residential community parts of this building than you are on the entry to the building for residents. And that was really deliberate. We want this park, this community plaza area to feel like part of Natick not part of this project specifically. So it does welcome you in and draw you in. We think the residential entry is really critical from an important standpoint, but we did want to sort of play that as a counterpoint to the non-residential and make sure the focus was in the right place.
I think we were reading sort of the intent of what you guys are trying to do in this district and I think making sure that non-residential use had to focus at entry visually from the street was really important. Great. I don't Speaker 1: Know if that didn't to knock you off your rhythm there, but let's just clarify Speaker 8: Questions. No, that's great. I mean I, I think that's about it really. The, you know, those are the core areas we wanted to focus on. A lot of this had to do with really cleaning up and simplifying the building, making sure the material pallet worked everywhere, improving all of the detailing on all the materials.
The other thing we did is we did play around quite a bit with balconies. So on the backside of the building towards the neighborhood, we removed the upper floor balconies. I think we removed seven or eight in total on the backside we added more balconies on the side of the building to increase the texture and rhythm. So thi this entire exercise with the DRB with you folks since we've met the first time has really been one of sort of continual refinement and improvement. So that, that's really been the focus of what we're trying to do with the building. Speaker 3: Any Speaker 1: Questions? Just so entry wise,
we got the main entrance Yep. On the right hand side. What are the other entry points to the building at the, at the ground level? Speaker 8: So the, the only other primary entry point is the non-residential entry and then there are egress doors which you would, if you lived here, have a card reader access to get in. There's one on the MBTA side, there's one on the back I believe, and then there's one on the other side. So there, there are, as you park under or around the building, if you're a resident, you, you don't have to go through the front door. But again, I think our goal here is to create a nice enough plaza space that that becomes a,
a desirable place to be, not only because of the amenities but the outdoor plaza. So, Speaker 5: So if you have guests over or let's say like DoorDash or anything like that, they're gonna be coming to the Speaker 8: Front. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Speaker 5: And they're gonna be over where that gray car is. Speaker 8: Yeah, they'll be able to kind of pull in there. I mean Ian might be able to explain a little more of how the plaza works or traffic. No, but, but the idea is they would be able to come in, meet and then go right out of the site and not have to sort of circulate to the back. Speaker 1: Okay. And unless there's questions, we can wait till the end
or if there's anything right now I'm good. Okay, great. Andy, you're good. Okay. Speaker 3: And I apologize we also have Nick Griffin. Yes. Who's joining remotely. Okay. I didn't realize until he showed up. Okay. Speaker 1: Over my shoulder. Speaker 3: Okay. But thank you. Okay, so Ian, do you wanna talk about landscape issues? Speaker 9: Good evening again for the record. Ian Ramey with Copley Wolf Landscape Architects. I think the bulk of our efforts since we last met with you and following our conversations with the DRB really centered around refinements to the front plaza and a big effort on the AM BTA connector path. So starting first with the plaza, just as a refresher,
this plaza is a south facing about F 14 to 15,000 square foot open space. It's well sheltered from the winter winds, it has good solar access. And really the big thrust of what we heard from the DRB was to take that space and try to differentiate it to get a series of different subspaces in the plaza. And the mechanisms, mechanisms that we use to do that really are differentiating the paving materials and the treatment of the materials. So what we wanted to do was look at different jointing materials, diff different patterning to signify different areas
of seat seating, sort of different from where circulation may be in terms of the service of the plaza. That item number two is an area that we're reserving for food trucks, but that would also be a good spot for Uber pickup drop off, maybe some of the deliveries and so forth. We also have a series of surface parking spaces, two of which are handicapped accessible that are in close proximity to the lobby for the residential use as well as to that non-residential use. As you heard Brian mention, the lobby entries really key
as is the non-residential space access point. And we see this plaza being as a really well activated open space with people coming and going from those two key access points. Some of the other things that the DRB asked us to look at was increasing the amount of fixed pod seating. So we basically are creating little niches for people to sit in multiple configurations with multiple orientations. And those fixed pod seats also edge the planting. So we really wanted to have a well integrated public seating program that also was backed up
by the landscape design. Another element that we focused on in the corner where I think it says number three is to introduce a tiered seating element. So this would just be a fun sort of unique three dimensional seating element that may also be integrated with the monument sign for the project. That's something that we see being an, an easily activated space that people could hang out on. Of course when the marathon happens, it goes right across the front of this. So that'd be an opportunity for spectators to gather and, and sort of watch that activity. And then I guess the last thing that we did through the DRB
as it relates to the plaza was to really try to announce the mouth or the opening of that M-B-T-A-M-B-T-A connector paths. That's number four. So we brought the paving materials that we developed for that and expressed them out at the sort of mouth of the plaza really to kind of tie the two public realm spaces together. If we go to the next slide, so a big focus for us and rightly so, was with this MBTA connector path. If you remember before it was a little bit narrow, it was about six feet wide, it's about 300 feet long, it didn't have a lot of differentiation to it.
So the DB's charge to us was tried to make that an enriched experience, introduce some pause moments, change up the material so it wasn't just an unrelenting path. And so that's what we did. We've taken that path and now widened it to almost eight feet. At its narrowest, we've introduced what we call pause moments. You can see those in those sort of chevron or wedge shapes. Those pause moments are punctuated with a widened sitting area with public seating, a change in the paving material. So that path gets broken up a little
bit better than it did before. And then within those pause moments, the idea is that we wanna celebrate the place of natick. So the idea is that we would do things that we're calling sidewalk tattoos, which would basically be inscriptions in the paving. That could either be a quote from a famous resident, like somebody local from the site, or it could be an icon that speaks to something specific to natick, like its rich history of creating baseballs, something that's iconic that would be in the pavement. So that would be there during the daytime and at all times. And then we thought to add another layer of enrichment at night, we're planning
to use gobo projection. And so that's basically a programmable lens that gets put onto a light fixture and it allows you to make patterns or colors or silhouettes or quotes on the paving. And so you can imagine as you're looking down this thing at night, there's a series of splashes of color or interesting components that really just, you know, make this a more interesting place and gives us the canvas that we could use to sort of celebrate unique aspects of natick. And then you can see in that lower left corner, sort of the section of how that would work
with the widening widening of the walkway as well as that seating area that's kind of pushed back and recessed and, and I think Ian, which one of these points does, this is side entrance to the building right at one of these? Yeah, so it's right where it says paving inscription, if you follow that area up, arrow up, that is where the, the door is. Speaker 6: You mentioned Speaker 5: Pavement contrast. Is this all gonna be concrete, different colors or what? Speaker 9: Most likely concrete. We did look at pavers. I don't know if that will be deployed here. Probably just the change in, in concrete
Speaker 5: Cu. So we'll probably have two different colors of concrete or something Speaker 9: Like that. And cha we would definitely look to change the texturing of the jointing, the direction of the jointing. Okay. Speaker 6: Ms. Not relative to the front, the facing west central. Yep. Are you envisioning any restaurants, eating establishments where they might be looking for outdoor dining? Speaker 9: So right now that's not part of the program. We do have space reserve for food trucks, so sort of a mobile activity that could activate the space. I'm not sure we're fully locked in as as to what that non-residential space will be just yet.
I don't know if you guys wanna speak to that, but Speaker 6: There Okay. And relative to that, the same thing. It doesn't look like there's a whole lot of parking for people who want to, if they're going into those non-residential areas looking for that, I don't see a lot of that. Speaker 3: Yeah. So there, there is, there are parking spaces adjacent to the non-residential space in front Speaker 6: For just a short distance? Speaker 3: Yeah, there are a few there, but then there are lots of parking spaces, you know, towards the corner, around the side of the building as well. So we can address that in the parking part
of the presentation if you like. Yeah. Speaker 1: A lot of thought on the MBTA path and appreciate that. What's going on with their friends at the MBTA on that side? How is, how is that edge treated? Speaker 9: So it's a combination of fencing and vegetation. So we've pulled the path away from the edge a little bit. So we have the opportunity to do some planting and then we'll have a fence. The thought is that in some areas it may be a fence that is a little bit more ornate and maybe a little more opaque. So it's, you know, you don't see through it as much. And then, you know, those could be potentially located where we have these pause moments where people are pausing. And then between that it would be more
of a probably a standard picket fence, you know, that you can see through, Speaker 1: But you pull, you've created enough space to do something on, on the project side. Fencing or Speaker 9: Planting. Yep. That section shows it a little bit. It might be kind of small, but there's Yeah. Speaker 1: Oh, I see the section double. Okay. Okay. Speaker 6: I had another question. Sure. Are you envisioning signage for the non-residential area? Maybe I'm just not picturing the non-residential area all along parallel to West Central, maybe I'm not picturing that right. But I'm thinking that you'll have numerous retail establishments there and signage
and that, where is the signage, I assume would be limited to the dark band that's across the tops of the windows, but there would be signage there Speaker 9: I believe so it would be integrated into the architecture though. I guess it depends on how many different uses. I think it's a single use is what is being envisioned. Right now it's Speaker 1: 4,000 square feet. Right? It's, Speaker 6: Oh then I, it's only 4,000 square feet am wrong in, in picturing what might be going on in that You're thinking of one one tenant. Speaker 9: Yeah. I don't know if that's a good segue to talk about the non-residential Speaker 6: Use.
It's just a whole lot can happen if it's more than one. Sure. And I'm just wondering about that. Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Jordan, if you want to jump in Yeah, yeah. It's not really a landscape question. I didn't Speaker 6: Me to take you off your, off your path there. Speaker 10: Jorgen NDA with Gables Residential at Yeah, at the last, at the last meeting we talked a little bit about how that space could be programmed. Some of the ideas that we're exploring and we've advanced since the last meeting are it's, it's only, like I said, it's only 4,000 square feet, but it's some combination of co co-working, right?
So, you know, an office, a remote office where people can come to work, conference room, you know, sort of facilities where people can, can print and, and and, and sort of, you know, work remotely. And we've been talking to an operator that's interested in the space. It'd be a, a portion of the space. The other portion could be more of a, a grab and go market, right? Like some type of community market where you could, you know, get your, your necessities. There's a lot of sort of digital
or un unmanned sort of grab and go market platforms that we're exploring. And then the other, and the, the, the last and we've advanced some of those conversations is with the more I institute library, you know, I I think it's, it's imperative that that space be activated and it's not just sort of the use, but how it gets programmed. And some of the ideas, you know, book readings or art exhibits that we've been exploring with, with the Morris Institute could happen on in a portion
of the space as well. So we're, we're try, we're trying it, we're, it, it really isn't a good retail like pure retail space, like you would think of Dunking Donuts or something like that. It's just, it's just that the, the, the location, the lack of co-tenancy with other retailers makes that a, a really challenging retail, true retail space. And some of the conversations we've had with brokers have sort of reinforced that.
So we're trying hard to come up with community ideas that activate the space, that keep it alive, that engage that plaza that allows us to program it with community events in a way that it is, it remains alive and activated. So that's, you know, again, right, I think we're, we're, we're, we're, you know, flexibility in how that space gets built out as non-residential space is gonna be pretty, pretty key for us. Speaker 6: I would, I just my impression that in
that whole area, that location and that site, the folks living there, especially the folks you going, all the apartments that you're gonna have, they're gonna want areas, things, functions to help them exist. They, I mean when you mentioned market, I thought, you know, that's, gee that's that great. I mean, if I were gonna move in there, I'd wanna know that I within a, Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean I think right, so providing some level of, of again, necessities, again, these communities really need to operate as, as sort of, you know, real communities where people interact,
where they come down out of their apartments, they gather for, you know, wine and, and an, you know, an art exhibit. They can use some of the space for, you know, remote working. So I think it's a combination, you know, we're envisioning a combination of, of uses that keeps that space both activated and engaged. You know, it, it just, it, it isn't a, it isn't gonna be a like a, like a pure retail, you know, pure retail experience in that location. It's really, really the worst thing that could happen is
that that space remains empty or dead or vacant or right. A, a podiatrist or a nails like it, it needs to feel alive. It's the front that's the front door of our community. So we're, we're gonna work hard to to to make that, make that work. Speaker 5: Thank you. Yeah. Speaker 3: Okay, great. If we'll move on then to the next things we want to talk about where a few of the things that planning board had asked us to address. And I'm gonna ask Courtney to come up and talk about the truck turning study and,
and the traffic additional supplemental traffic study that she was able to do for the project. Speaker 5: Thank Speaker 11: You again for the record. Courtney AK from TetraTech, as Jamie mentioned, the traffic consultant and for the project. So primarily we were responding to comments from the DPW and from the board. Very thoughtful comments. So thank you Alan. I appreciate them. I'll just walk you through a few of the slides, but happy to answer any questions, go into more detail as you'd like. As you can see here, the anticipated delivery vehicle at the site is generally gonna be an SU 30.
So that's a single unit truck that's approximately 30 feet long. So we were just asked to demonstrate that it can adequately enter, circulate and exit the site. So that's what this graphic here demonstrates. So you can see that the truck can get into making a right turn, which is the more conservative turn from a truck turning perspective when entering the site. And then similarly, when exiting the site, the more conservative turn is a right turn, the left turns in, left turns out have a little more flexibility. So we wanted to just show that the worst case scenario
and you can see it maneuvers fine. Do you have any questions on that slide? Speaker 5: I, yeah, I do. Yes. And it might seem like I'm being very negative or, or picking on you guys, but I want something that's gonna work for you guys too. Yeah. And, and kind of my concern is yet, you know, SC 30, it's a very typical size for deliveries, trash, what have you. Kind of, my my concern is more, especially people moving in and moving out. Some, some even U-Haul are a little bit more than 30 feet. I know I've rented one before and I'm not a good truck driver, you know, so you know, whether or not they would be able to swing out
that much more so on the right turnout, the right turn in actually seems to operate pretty well. So I would sure like it if it worked a little bit better for that Right. Turnout it is that 180 degrees is really difficult. The other thing is, I, I mentioned U-Haul is even a little bit bigger than a 30. If I have, you know, one of these moving companies, I'm sure they even use a larger truck. What's gonna happen if a larger truck is trying to get into here or get out of here? I guess that's probably the more important thing. So I kind of would like to have also for you
to run a larger vehicle as well than that. And I don't know what the moving truck companies use if it's, Speaker 3: We did run the firetruck and they Yeah, Speaker 5: You know, the firetruck was fine, firetruck looked okay, but they have a, they usually have a tight turning radius. I, I just wanna make sure if somebody's moving in here, we don't want them driving over your lawn and hitting the trees on the way out, stuff like that. Yeah, and I think a lot of it comes from that, that sharp turn. So I would like to see more and if you can't get it, you know, might be some adjustments that need to be made. Speaker 11: Yes. Do you wanna talk about the mountable curb? No. Okay.
The, the curb is going to be designed to be mountable, but we the Speaker 5: Little island in the middle, right? Speaker 11: Yes. Yeah. Okay. And, and we can finesse the, the design for the, the turning radii on the east, the westerly leg of, or the westerly side of the, the exiting driveway. Speaker 5: Okay. I mean I'm, I'm just, I'm wondering if that corner's driving everything and, and yeah, if that's gonna be the issue when you do run it, if you could show at least where or estimate where the center line is on 1 35, that'd be good because Sure. Similarly, you know, if I am driving a U-Haul
or you know, somebody else driving a U-Haul, that's not the type of person I want going over the double yellow to try to be able to make the turn because you know, there, there would be a hack like I am with the, with a vehicle. So at least so that way we could see how much are they encroaching, obviously the larger vehicle, you know, we gotta see what that, what that happens. So if you could just kind of show that, I guess whenever we meet later Yeah, I'll, yes, can I'll let you continue on now. No worries. That was my question about the director. Yes. Speaker 1: Sorry to back, back up one more, just again clarifying here, what is the tr sort
of trapezoidal line we're seeing here at the dr Is that the right Speaker 3: Of that's actually the right of way line. That's the right of way. So this is, if that intersection that we're talking about is on is part of the right of way, it's part of the town property. Oh, Speaker 1: Didn't realize that. Speaker 5: The street across or signal, a lot of times they go into the property a little bit Speaker 1: More. Yeah that's a but it's, it's kind of a weird shape. It's widened out. Yeah, Speaker 3: Yeah it wasn't, it was added to the right of way. Yeah. When they decide to add a signal and I think they just decide they wanted to own the property so it's not am ment equipment was located so they changed the right of way.
Okay. Yeah, it's kind of a weird unordinary, let's put it that way. Okay. Speaker 11: Courtney, any other questions on the truck turning template? No. Okay, so next slide please. So then we had a couple of comments regarding what we call the future no build condition. So if you recall from the traffic impact study and our presentation back in March, traffic impact studies in order to analyze the potential impact traffic impacts of a project, typically look at the existing conditions. So what's traffic like today, future year conditions?
In this case we use the standard design year that mass DOT uses, which is seven years in the future. So that would be 2033. And we look at that without the project so that we can see what's the incremental impact in the future of the project. So we were asked to rerun the future, no build and build with the boden lane bridge. So we were able to get in contact with the mass DOT project manager for the, for the bridge reopening, which they said hopefully was later this year, but because of equipment ordering delays
might be more next year. And so we added in the southbound, so vehicles coming from the neighborhood to the north will be able to travel south to approach Route 1 35. They will not be able to go north into the neighborhood. So it's just a one way southbound pedestrians and bicycles will still be able to use the, the bridge in both directions. So we a, we estimated the traffic from the neighborhood and the cut through traffic that would be going through there and turning right to go into the MBTA as well as turning right or left
to continue on in either direction regionally on 1 35. We also took another look at the re occupancy of the site. So you may recall that the existing site is about 50 to 60,000 square feet of commercial space. So historically if that, you know, the applicant, if they were re to reten it, what what would it generate? So we re-ran it using a different building program assumption. And if you go to the next slide please, you can see here that we still
generate a pretty significant amount of traffic if, if they were to read tenant as it is was historically used, but it did reduce the number of trips compared to the building program we initially looked at in the, in the March study. So go to the next, Speaker 3: Is that mostly going from a hundred percent retail to a mix of office in retail or Speaker 11: It is going from, lemme see here, yes we were, we were doing a, instead of full retail, it was half retail, half half office building. So kind of ground floor retail, second story office.
Speaker 1: But that reduction in Speaker 11: But still, so, yep. So that would be the next slide. So if, oops, I'm sorry Speaker 1: Courtney on the back, on the trip gen, just any Oh yes, any credits for modal split, you know, transit usage. Speaker 11: So Speaker 1: Could, because it's all just pure trip. IITE trip gen, Speaker 11: It's pure ITE trip gen, which does take into account some level of public transit use in a suburban community. But with a commuter rail line, you're less likely to see traffic
or trips generated by the commuter rail for, for retail or the type of office space, usually people are using retail to go to large office parks or large Speaker 1: Malls. I mean by the proposed, the proposed trip gen, Speaker 11: The proposed trip gen? Yes. Okay. Yep. So the, there's ITE trip generation rates for, for residential multifamily residential uses that are located within a half mile of regional transit and trip rates for if you don't live near
or if you're not close to transit. So we ran it with the close to transit usage, so it already accounted for, for the reduction. So you can see here that we generate still a significantly less amount of traffic on a daily basis and a peak hour basis with the proposed multi-family use and 4,000 square feet of non-residential use compared to again, if the, if the property owner were to read tenant as it historically has been. So we did update the, what we call the capacity analysis. So those are the how well grade level LOSA
to LOSF. So if you go to the next slide please, Jimmy, at the study or intersections, I'm not sure Speaker 1: That one is in, Speaker 11: Oh did that, that one might have got, sorry taken out. But essentially that the findings of our original study did not change the intersection levels of service actually get reduced going from the no build condition to the build condition because of this reduction in traffic and at the unsigned intersection there was only, there was a nominal increase in falling. Actually we had a decrease in delay
for the vehicles exiting out of the side streets. Any questions on that? Speaker 1: When you say reduced, I think you mean to say improved, Speaker 11: Improved, reduced delay, so improved operations? Correct. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 12: Okay. Any questions from the board? Not at this point. Okay. Okay, great, thanks. Speaker 3: So next I'm gonna talk about sort of the sidewalk treatment in the front of the site and Amanda's been really helpful on this issue as well as other issues. But we know that as part of the master planning for this West Natick area, there was some thoughts given to,
you know, non vehicular forms of transportation and how that might be enhanced. And so the zoning that you adopted last fall requires either sidewalk or multi multi-use pathway as part of the projects in this area. You know, our currently proposed plan shows a multi-use pathway, but in looking at the area, I think it's causing some of us to sort of question whether that's necessarily the right solution for this site at this point in time. And some of the factors that go into it is that the,
you know, the south side of the, of West Central has a continuous sidewalk along the whole West central Street. It's, that's where the pedestrian traffic is moving today. The north side is pretty much absent of any sidewalks that we could connect to. And you know, it's, it's challenging in, in a number of ways to think about how that might eventually be developed. But basically what you have as this graphic shows a continuous sidewalk on the south side, the yellow shows the crosswalk locations
which allow, you know, crossing, crossing the west central to points of, of high high traffic pedestrian traffic use. But on all on the north side there are, well first of all you have the full range of utility poles all on the north side. You have, you have a number of commercial curb cuts all on that north side. You have signage in that same zone and you have electrical equipment there a number
of obstructions on the north side, which don't for the most part exist on the south side. I know Amanda has a group doing a study on this issue right now and I, you know, she's kind of shared a draft but not, not really ready for prime time I guess. But I think, you know, that that is sort of suggesting that perhaps the multi-use pathway, if that's part of the overall master plan for, for the area might work actually better on the south side than the north side. It'd be more feasible to implement.
So we've just, we've just put together, you know, some options here for you to think about and look at. And what is on the top here is, is the current plan in terms of the full 1514 foot wide multi-use pathway that would certainly conform to that desire. And it, it, it's challenging even, even though we're showing it here, we, we've got the number of obstructions, we have utility poles all through there.
We have the, the traffic light masks, which are right in the middle of it. So we have to kind of go around it. There are electrical boxes that would need to be relocated. Not, not easy to do, but you know, potentially, obviously we have a, a plan that shows how it could be done in an alternative. I think, you know, really focusing on, on the lower one here, the, the pedestrian desire lines here are really, you know, along the south side and crossing to and from the MBTA station and,
and I think we think that there's some perhaps better way to accommodate pedestrian traffic than there is today by working with a more of a sidewalk treatment than a multi multi-use pathway and connecting that through the plaza and through our connecting pathway to the MBTA station, which would, you know, really I think meet the need much better. The, there are really no connection points to the west here. So there it just, you go, you go to dirt, you know,
there's no sidewalk, no nothing for a long, long way. And so I I guess we're, we're trying to like sort out here, you know, what, what is the right design solution along the street here. And so we, we've done these two options just for you to, to look at and ask questions about and, and think about. But I think it's, you know, there's at least a reasonable argument that in the future probably the multi-use pathway really belongs on the south side, not on the north side. Speaker 13: Can I kind of opine or, Speaker 3: Well Speaker 1: Is that anything else to present this evening?
No. On that. Okay. Okay. Alright, thank you. So, sure. I guess we can open it up for specific comments or questions about the sidewalk plan or any of the other issues we, we brought up Amanda. Speaker 7: Yep. I just wanna touch base on that one. So we are working with the Conway School of Landscape Design out in North Hampton to really look at the north and the south side of the west central. As Mr. Bay noted, the students have been identifying obstacles of putting the multi-use path on that north side,
specifically in this site with the large, they're not transformers but the utility box associated with the mast pole and then also the utility poles along that north side. They did see that the north side had less curb cuts because of the way that the lots are located. However, there is less intrusions and obstacles on the south side. We are waiting for that study. It is not ready for finalization. Staff has reviewed, provided the students with comments back. Also what we did notice with the students' comments
and review to this point is, as Mr. Faye noted, everything to the west of the site does get challenging because that's where you start to check climb the hill, but you're also crossing two and three family lots, but those actually have a lot more vegetation than what they do on the south side. So the students are looking at both sides to see what the recommendation would be to further that. But just wanted to give that, we are still working on that. Speaker 3: Just one other comment I I forgot to mention, I mean obviously we're, we're happy to, you know,
make some kind of reservation so if in the future somebody wants to build that they can go ahead and do it, but, you know, we could talk about what that, what that means. But I think yeah, to be consistent with what that study is heading towards, I think, you know, maybe a sidewalk makes more sense at this point in time anyway. Speaker 1: Alan, Speaker 5: Actually, I guess question, do they know when they're gonna have that done and and are they working with DPW at all to Yeah, Speaker 7: Their input. So they're supposed to be having it done very, very soon because semester I believe ends like June 5th,
or sorry July 15th. They're a little bit later than traditional schools and they have been working with CED TR or DPW, they've also been working with Rich Eames of GIS department, fire department, et cetera. So they have been working with groups. I believe they also met with the transportation advisory committee and the police department and then also the open space advisory might have been touch note. Okay. They didn't get a touch base? Not yet. Speaker 5: Okay. It'll be interesting to see what they come back with. I guess a few things as far as pedestrians
and I've kind of, I think been consistent, you know, with other projects. Now whether or not it's on north side or south side shared use path, one thing I I'm definitely gonna assist upon is that we have a sidewalk along the entire site frontage because if we don't, we're kind of saying that it's never gonna happen. I mean, I I'm not looking at this for the next few years. If we don't build it now, you know, in 30 years this still won't be built. So yes, it doesn't really connect to anything yet. But, you know, there is reasons why people will want to go out there. You know, there's a Wendy's up the street. It's, it's a shame that a lot of the stretch doesn't have
a sidewalk on the north side because there is a demand there. You could actually see the trails where people have been walking. I've done it many times myself and said, why did they not build a sidewalk when they were last doing this roadway? So I will a hundred percent insist even if this, if the shared use path is on the south side, I think we need to sidewalk the entire frontage to kind of take it another step forward. I think we need to have a signal. I'm a signaled pedestrian crossing across the driveway. I think the newer plans is the first time I've, we've kind of been able to show anything in detail. So I know you were trying to looks like a void moving the,
the span wire pole that's right in the middle of everything. Yeah. But I think putting, we have a signal, if you have a signal that's a great space to cross people. And to be honest, I think even a crosswalk on the western side of the road, not as much needed as across the driveway, but I'm trying to look into the future. You know, we got a signal that's where we want people to be crossing route 1 35. So I think, you know, that's kind of a way to help activate the pedestrian network is
by making it sure seem a lot more comfortable to cross the road. So I think that's my opining here. Speaker 14: But Speaker 15: I would, Terry I would, I would say kind of to further on that, that point in all of my time on the planning board, I have lost count as to how many times an applicant will say, oh, well, you know, that that's not really gonna connect to anything or that's not really going to get used. And inevitably if the, the opportunity presents itself.
And in fact having, having that built becomes a, an attractive magnet. It really does. As well as being kind of a safety issue as someone who has made some of those dirt paths of desire because there's no sidewalks, goat paths, we Speaker 14: Call 'em goat paths. Yeah. Mr. Meyer, you've been completely agree about the sidewalks. The, a lot of people are gonna be looking for opportunities to, to walk. They live here downtown Framingham
is going through some cool changes. People might, you know, people wanna walk there. This whole area is subject to new zoning. I think there's gonna be exciting opportunities up and down Jesus. I mean, we're right next to the train station, so I mean, you, you see the people walking at rush hour in the morning and at night. So I think, I think anything less than full accessible, wonderful sidewalks would be a complete missed opportunity. I, I can't imagine this project without it. Speaker 15: And, and, and also there, the safety issues that
inev are inevitable if there isn't a sidewalk put in. Speaker 14: Yeah. Speaker 15: It doesn't stop people from doing Speaker 14: No thi this is imagined as like a really, you know, cool, you know, neighborhood corridor hub and there's gonna be a lot of walking opportunities. So I, I can't imagine skimping in that regard. Speaker 1: Mr. Robinson. Speaker 6: Two things. One, if I'm reading the plan right in the northwest corner of the garage, it looks as though they're trash shoots.
How did, how do you get trucks with parking all around? How do you, how do you get trucks to, well, how do you get rid of the trash off site? Speaker 3: Sure. Are there any, just if you don't mind, are there any other questions on the sidewalk? And then we can come back to that, or I Speaker 6: Could go into anything Speaker 1: We can, but if I, may I hold, I'll just chime in on the sidewalk. Yes. I, I, I agree with my colleagues here. I think, you know, it's definitely an opportunity to include a sidewalk. It would be great to do a multi-use path. You know, typology wise, I would, you know,
if you look at Arsenal Street in Watertown, if you're familiar with what you know, that corridor did. I mean, that's sort of, you know, like what we're trying to envision here. But there was a shared use path that kind of was in segments for years and finally got connected, you know, so it can be done. And I, I, I will say I sympathize with the constraints with the utility poles, YA but it can be done. So I would challenge your engineers to please do your best and, and, you know, come up with a,
with a reasonable plan. I, Amanda, you look like you wanna, Speaker 7: Oh, yeah. So, just so you're aware, Gables is actually one of the first developers on Arsenal Street to put the pathway in. Oh. So there, there's, I I don't believe that there's any question about putting the path in. It's, we're Speaker 3: Against Pathways. Speaker 7: It's not a question about putting the path in. It's just do we start with a sidewalk with a reservation strip? Just so if it in the future kind of thing, whatever it decides to be. Speaker 1: And, you know, to, to Mr. ER's point about the signal and what's happening there. What, what, what is the plan? Are we keeping it in place?
Are, are there, is there any upgrade to the signal equipment proposed here? A rusty old signal head with a pole is not the greatest. I'm gonna ask Courtney to, to respond to that one. Yeah, please. Yeah. Speaker 11: So for the existing signal equipment, the timings and phasing operate, well, you know, we can certainly have discussions with the, with the board if there's concerns about the existing signal equipment. We did try to get the, the signal plan and shop jars from the DPW. They didn't seem to have it, have it on file, unfortunately. Hmm. But the signal operates fine.
Speaker 1: So Speaker 11: We weren't intending to do any major, major improvements to it. Speaker 1: Okay. Speaker 14: Can I ask a question on, on that? I'm pretty familiar with that stoplight, and it does seem to work fine. In a, when would you expect the most, the, the highest quantity of people needing that stoplight to leave and get out? Would that be the morning commute? Speaker 11: Would that For vehicular traffic? Speaker 14: For vehicular traffic and whenever that period of time is, how many people do you think can get through a signal without it being re timed? Yep. And would it in fact end up with a long line
of people on the site to get out, in your opinion? Speaker 11: So, as you can see here, these are the estimates under the, the middle column. They're the proposed transit oriented development. Those are the, the estimated trip generation numbers for the daily. But to answer your question, we would look at the am peak hour and the PM peak hour. That's the one hour period in the morning, and the one hour period in the evening that we look at for, to determine cap capacity and operational impacts at a signalize intersection. So most folks, as you know,
especially in the greater Boston area, there's peak spreading, right? So it's not just one hour of the day. There's, you know, anywhere from two to four hours in the morning, and usually about two to three hours in, in the afternoon that folks generally commute. So we were looking at the worst case scenario, what is the peak morning and peak evening of the adjacent street traffic combined with the site. So you can see here that the project would generate the most exiting traffic during the morning peak hour. And it's on the order of approximately, you know,
one additional vehicle every minute. Kendall Green, the southerly leg of the intersection actually generates more traffic than this, the majority of which take a right northbound right turn. So that's why the, when we ran the operational analysis, this project didn't have a material impact. Speaker 14: No. That, that's, I guess what I'm asking is like I've been through that intersection of cable lane. Yeah. And it seems like it's one of those like eight second green light ones. Speaker 11: Yep. Speaker 14: So you, you really only have two or three cars to get through. Speaker 11: Yeah. So you can see here there'd be about, you know,
an additional car a minute on average. So you might get two or three cars exiting the site on occasion, but it's usually just gonna be like one car exit in the site, some of which will take a right turn so that 50 is totally enter, exiting the site. Not all of them will be left turns heading east towards Boston. Speaker 14: But you'd agree it's only a couple cars through per cycle. Speaker 11: Yes. Yep. Well, for our project for Kendall Green, they can process process more because most of that traffic is northbound Right. Turns Right, Speaker 14: Okay. Speaker 11: And the signal is there.
So there's pre-time signals, which are kind of the old historic way of the equipment was set up. But this is activated or actuated. So we, it can sense there's detectors out there that can sense, you know, how much green time. So if you actually looked at a signal timing plan, there's more green time usually than is, than is needed. But we only are looking at like the, the worst case of the day. Speaker 1: Is it loop detectors? What is the activation? Speaker 5: No, there's a, it's a MyVision 360 degree camera up there. It was loops up until pretty much about a year ago
where the natick, actually, the signals are operated by the fire department applied for a mass DOT bottleneck grant, which was accepted. And mass DOT paid for new controllers and new detection for really along 1 35. So that intersection, intersection with mills speed and then Washington. So they all have brand new control. I mean the physical equipment that you see is pretty much the same, but none of 'em are running loops anymore. They all have brand new controllers
and new video detection equipment. Oh good. So might be some modifications needed. 'cause the shape of the driveway is gonna change. But that's the beauty of a video is you're just drawing on a screen somewhere rather than having to rip up any equipment. So that part, the controller that is brand new, obviously it's an older span wire that's out there that can, tends to be in the middle. One of the poles is right in the middle of the shared use path. Yeah. And there isn't really ped equipment in all directions, so there might still be the need for some upgrade. Yeah,
Speaker 1: You got the ped on the east side. Speaker 5: Yeah. Speaker 1: Right. And then you, you mentioned there's probably a desire to have it on the west side as well and there's no ped equipment there. Yeah. So something to I think evaluate would be that Right. Filling up. Absolutely. Filling up the, filling up Speaker 5: The, it's your front door. So Speaker 1: The intersection with, with pedestrian. Yeah. A combination. Speaker 3: So, so just so I understand the comment, you're, you're, Alan, I think what you're saying is you are looking for us to have a pedestrian crosswalk on essentially on our site along West Central Street, signalize pedestrian crossing. Yeah.
Speaker 5: So cross, so really all four corner, all, all, well I wouldn't worry too much about new field yourself, but yes, you should have a marked crosswalk with pedestrian indications across your driveway. And then I would look to have one across 1 35 on the western side side of your driveway with curb ramp. So Speaker 3: On the western side, Speaker 1: On the Framingham side of the intersection, there isn't a crosswalk there. There's Speaker 5: Nothing there. Speaker 3: There's an existing one you want. Oh Speaker 11: No, that's on the east side. That's on the east side. That's on the east side. If we can slide to one of the sidewalk plans, Speaker 3: Can you use that? Speaker 5: Probably the next one. Zoom. There we
go. There we go. You can see here. Speaker 11: So if you look at the picture, the street view image in the top right corner that is looking from the MBTA side of the street west. Yeah. Speaker 1: It's looking west. It's looking Speaker 11: West. Yep. So you're on the east side of the street on the MBTA side looking west. And that crosswalk that you see, a portion of that is what we would refer to as a crosswalk on the east leg of the intersection. So Alan is referring to the opposing route 1 35 leg. The west leg of the intersection does not have a, a crosswalk because there isn't a, a sidewalk
on the north side to connect to at this time. Speaker 5: And back in the day, there wasn't as much of a push to, hey, if you got a signal, make sure we can cross all four corners. Sometimes they were just fine to cross one or two. But that tends to run into issues because then sometimes people, they don't wanna go all the way around the intersection, then they start taking a shortcut and sometimes in unsafe situations. So I think that would be great if we can get something across all four legs. Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't, I don't know what the challenges are to adding that. It might, that might, Speaker 5: If there is, let us know. Speaker 3: Very complicated project to do that. I don't know.
And it just doesn't seem, it's, yeah, you can cross in two places instead of one places, but it's the same place. Yeah. Speaker 5: Yeah. The one across the driveway I think is, yeah, no, we get it more important for yours. But there is, there is no, I don't necessarily, and I don't know what the right of way is, like on the southwestern corner. So if there is a, if it for some reason's un feasible, let us know. But yeah, Speaker 1: We'll get to your question, I promise. But now that we're talking Speaker 5: About, I'm here for the duration, Speaker 1: So I'm back to the trapezoid thing here.
You're, you know, obviously you're taking advantage of having a driveway and an entrance and you're landscaping and doing everything else in the town right of way. So I'm raising a question here about ownership, maintenance and liability, everything else that comes with owning property and particularly with a high traffic kind of situation there. So what, any thoughts on could we tighten up the right of way there? You know, have the town cooperate and, and do that kind of rationalize the, that geometry there
Speaker 5: To kind of give them some land almost. Speaker 1: Yeah, possibly. But that thing goes all the way into your driveway and you've got, if there's another plan view that shows, I Speaker 5: Think it was, you know what Doug, I bet you back in the day they did it to make sure the loops got included. Speaker 1: That's exactly probably what happened. Right. So is there a plan that you can show the site plan in relation to the building and the parking? Again, this is in the spirit of helping out, right? Yeah, yeah. Man, you understand what I'm talking about, right? Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I, I think what must have, I, I don't think
that was the original property line. I think that, I dunno whether it was a taking or whether it was a donation or how it got transformed, but obviously the town came in, or actually it was a state owned highway right? At that point in time. Right? Right. Speaker 1: It was Speaker 3: Correct. It was not turned back to the town yet. So the state did the intersection improvement and probably said, we need, we need this property. If we're gonna, if we're gonna improve it, we need to own it. I think that's what that Speaker 1: Is. Transfer. So suggestion, I would say, think about this from your point of view. I'm not, I'm not speaking for the road commissioners who are the select board, but gee, if I were you,
I'd like to have control of that. And for the town, I don't want to be owning that driveway. I don't wanna be owning anything that happens on that driveway. Internal, basically internal to your site, which is really what it is. You've got the food truck area, you've got drop off. That's, that's actually town right of way. I, I would seriously think about, Speaker 3: Well maybe Manly you can help us arrange for discussion with A DPW that I would think would be the starting point for that conversation. Right. As the responsible party for maintaining town rights away. Speaker 1: Does that make, I mean other, yeah, Speaker 5: I think, I mean, any signal equipment we would want on
town right away, once we get outside of that Yeah. Outside of the sidewalk. Speaker 1: If it's camera detection, then we, Speaker 5: Well, yeah. So we wouldn't have to worry about that. So I guess maybe we would probably bring it up to the back of the shared path or back of the Speaker 1: Sidewalk. Something that's rational around that I think would be better. Speaker 3: That can require town meeting action to convey property. Speaker 1: What do we do with scrub dog? Speaker 3: Yeah, it could, it could get complicated. The real estate part could get very complicated. Speaker 1: Right. I know we could have a Hi. Hello. Hello. Hi. Speaker 16: Greg Sams with Sullivan Wooster. Yes. Yes. I think we'd be happy to have the conversation, but that would likely involve a procurement process
to dispose of the land and it would, it's not an easy request. So I, I think I, and I understand it, it, it's, it's certainly when we looked at it and how it lays out on the property, it's a, it's an odd configuration. Yeah. And not ideal. So I think we would happy to explore it. I just wanna set the expectation. It's not an easy process or solution. So we, you'd be happy to explore some kind of like reciprocal agreement where that could be a, a shared responsibility that's a little easier than a complete giveaway of the land.
Yeah. But I just, you know, again, we'll, we'll we will, we'll explore it, but I don't expect it to be an easy Speaker 1: Resolution. Nothing's easy. But I would, I would definitely put you to that test if you could explore that. Sure. Some kind of arrangement from both sides. Again, you are putting the improvements in it is functionally your driveway, it is town right of way. What are the responsibilities of the town to, for that? And I know, you know, realistically, are you gonna call us and say, Hey, we got a pothole? Probably not, but, you know, let's, let's figure that out. Let's see if there's something we can do. Yep.
On those lines. Okay. And maybe there's a procurement streamline. Who knows? Okay. Okay. But I, I would put you to that test if you would. Sure. Okay. Okay. Mr. Speaker 4: All Speaker 1: Right, your turn. Speaker 3: Brian, I'm gonna ask Brian to come back up and help address this. I think just gotta find, we got a couple of, is the trash images the trash? Yeah. Speaker 4: Pull the slide. Probably Speaker 17: Eddie meter with Gables Residential. So regarding the, the trash question, the, the same loading diagram and truck turning diagram also works
for the loading dock in the back of the building in the northwest corner. So when we had our delivery trucks, the SU 30 and also the fire truck, it could navigate, it's, I think Natty is trying to get the image to be on the screen. It can navigate to the northwest corner. But essentially what is internal to the building will have two shoots, one recycling, one trash. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 4: Look, Speaker 17: Which would go directly into the parking garage level of our garage into a compactor and a waste container.
And then on, on the days that trash goes out, usually, you know, 2, 3, 4 times a a week. It depends on, on usage. It would get wheeled out to the loading dock, which is essentially the dark red area in that northwest corner, sort of right to the left of the arrow. Speaker 6: It's gonna come down a chute and it'll wind up in the internal trash room. Correct. And on pickup day it goes where out that, Speaker 17: So the bins would get taken essentially to the loading dock, which is, it's labeled loading. It's
Speaker 6: In internal loading or exterior exterior loading Speaker 17: To directly exterior to the building. Speaker 6: So it, it'll come Speaker 17: Right outside of the, Speaker 6: Into the garage and out, or it goes through, there's a little area in between the internal loading and the internal trash room. Does it go through that area? Speaker 17: It would go through the garage following the red dotted line through Speaker 6: The garage? Correct. Speaker 17: Okay. Which is common for us to do. Speaker 6: Okay. And then it goes on Speaker 17: And, and we would have on onsite staff that would help with that process. Speaker 6: Okay. Thank you. I just wanna understand that.
And then my other concern is, this is rather a significant concern on my part is the front plaza it, I look at the front plaza and I see five parking spaces approximate to the building, two of which are handicapped. And to me, I, you got, well, I'm picturing something, I guess I know you're not, what I heard was show the parking possibly a single tenant, but even visitors to the apartments, I see no flexibility whatsoever in there.
I don't know where the visitors, where would the visitors go at to go to, if they're visiting somebody in the apartment, where do they go? Where do they park Speaker 17: A visitor to the apartment? Residential portion Would either, Speaker 6: Residential Speaker 17: Portion would either park in the surface parking, we would, they would get a hang tag or some type of, you know, a sticker that would signify that they're a visitor that has checked in with management. So, and, and they would either park in the surface area or under the billing. Speaker 6: So that would be along the west side or the north side, the surface, correct.
Speaker 17: Yeah, it would be both. Speaker 6: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Speaker 17: Mr. Meyer, anything Speaker 5: From your perspective? No, I think I'm, Speaker 6: I, I'm low on questions. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Speaker 5: Alright guys are now we, okay. Why don't you stay 'cause we, I just want to keep going about the parking. So I don't know if you want to say, just so I get a better understanding how this is gonna happen. So Sure. I know it's decoupled from, it's gonna be decoupled from the apartment. So you are gonna, a resident would have to pay for it separately, right? Correct. And only residents will be able
to actually pay for the parking. So like it's not gonna be available for, you know, somebody maybe that commutes to the commuter reality. Like he can't, an outsider can't procure a monthly pass or anything. Right? Speaker 17: It, it's a good question. Obviously our, the needs of our resident would come first. Yeah. If we were open and we realized that we just have additional parking, we could see about leasing a portion for the MBTA. I mean, I'm Speaker 5: Not looking for it. I just want to know how Speaker 17: It's, it's entirely possible. However the, we would run it as our,
the needs of the resident and non-residential space first. Okay. And if there happens to be capacity in the future and there is excess parking available, then we could talk to the MBTA and see if there's a way to have a win-win for both sides. Speaker 5: And for the business, obviously you could change through the years. What's, what's in there? People who are going to the businesses, is that, are they just gonna park in some of those spaces and, and maybe get a tag Correct. Or how is that likely to work? Speaker 17: So they would park in the existing spaces, most likely on the western portion of the lot.
Yep. They would get some type of hang tag more than likely if it depends on the use. And Courtney can explain it a lot better. The amount of residents leaving far outweighs the number of potential visitors coming. Yeah. For 4,000 square feet of space. Speaker 5: Exactly. So I should, so Speaker 17: There, there is capacity during the day. The, the biggest needs for the residents is, is overnight and then there there would be capacity. And so how we would manage that, it would. Speaker 5: Okay. There'll be some kind of, Speaker 17: So we would have onsite staff to help with that. Speaker 5: Okay. Amazon del well I mentioned
before DoorDash, but boy the amount of time Amazon comes to my house, I could just imagine with this many units, where are, they're gonna be in the blue area or and is that well on that plan right now? Or are they gonna pull into spaces? Where are they likely to go? Speaker 17: Most likely the blue area, which would be large enough for two vehicles to park Okay. Behind each other. And if those are occupied and if a space is open, they would Speaker 5: Park the space and they'll run it into the front door Speaker 17: And they run. And there that'll be, and there there would be a package room. Okay. And the mail room near our front lobby entrance.
Speaker 5: Okay. I guess this is maybe more of a statement, just the, where you talked about keeping the span wire pole. Just make sure you have enough width kind of on either side of it for a DA reasons. I guess the other question I kind of came up with, I don't know if you're the best person or somebody else. The, I had asked before about stepping the upper floors if we can, to try to make it not seem so large, especially from the back, I guess. And I know that hasn't happened, so I was kind of wondering if you could expand on that.
And especially, I know there was, I was looking at the, the shade analysis that was done. I was wondering if that also might help with the shade. 'cause it does seem like it actually extends pretty far. And while I'm just kind of throwing out the questions, I noticed for the shade it did 9:00 AM noontime at three o'clock. I was wondering, there's a reason why it's only those hours, you know, I could picture, you know, you know, six o'clock or whatever. If I'm a resident, the neighbor, I might be saying, boy, you know, I was would've loved to be, have the sun while I'm grilling or something like that. Speaker 3: Yeah. So I think the, the, the shadow studies, it's,
it's kind of like an industry standard that's done for, you know, planning and design purposes. The, the principle is you want to look at what the shade is from the building during the hours that people are most likely to be outside and active. The hours of daylight. Obviously today, you know, we're looking at 14 hours or something like that. Yeah. You know, in the winter time we're, we're on the short end of that, you know, maybe eight. So, you know, doing a shadow study at six o'clock in night afternoon, not the winter in December, it's already dark.
It's not as down, it's all shadow. Right. So I I think it's just, it's, it's kind of the industry stand and how they, how they're done. And it gives you a sense of what it is. But you're right, I mean there, there's really almost no impact offsite other than on the tracks themselves. But in terms of abutting properties, there's almost no impact from, from shadow. And you know, it's, it's the time of year that you're outside the most and enjoying the outside the most is the time of year. The sun is highest and the shadows are least. Speaker 5: Yeah. So this graphic, yeah, so like summer solstice,
you know, nine, 12 and three o'clock, it's fine. But you know, I guess maybe my question was almost completed the summer. What about summer at six o'clock? You know? Well I was wondering if that was gonna impact Speaker 3: Any of the rest north. Yeah. So it just would extend, you know, if you went beyond 3:00 PM you're gonna see it go sideways. Right. You're gonna see it, it, it doesn't go north. It go, 'cause the sun is so far north already during the summer, so you would be extending the shadow across maybe a little closer to the MBTA parking lot at six o'clock. Yeah. Speaker 5: I guess I'm not worried. Maybe the concern more
concerning when it was the top right in the winter solstice at 9:00 AM we are now getting to the residence on the other side of the tracks. So I think I had maybe a little bit more kind of concern about it going that direction. I don't care about the A BK. Yeah. And I was wondering again if we kind of stepped that top floor back, if that would Speaker 3: Reduce that. So these are the issues that we talked a lot about with the design review board. Yeah. Which, you know, is really charged with looking at massing the building and design issues and things like that.
And I think they felt pretty comfortable with our solution and the building is step back further from the rear property line than, you know, required by zoning. So it's already, you know, providing I would say less shadow offsite than kind of the as of right condition. So I think, you know, they seemed to feel like it was, it was a good, good design and did not recommend any changes to the massing. Speaker 1: Thank you. That's all I have for questions. MBTA, let's just a few. Speaker 3: Your favorite. Speaker 1: I am, you know, just talk, so
for the board's edification, if you don't, are not familiar with the zone of influence program from the MBTA, if you're within 30 feet ish of a right of way and you're proposing construction, you need to get a license from the MBTA to do such work even though there is no statutory or regulatory basis for it whatsoever. So you are voluntarily submitting yourself to a process that I'm sure has been a lot of fun. What's, what are the issues, anything of import that we need to know about here? Yeah, well we, and then one, one last thing comment on,
you know, the connection to the Yeah. The station and you know, what that conversation's been like with, with the MBCA. Speaker 3: Yeah. You, you know, I share your concerns, but I think being very practical as all developers are, you know, we wanna do the right thing. There's legitimate public interest in making sure that construction work in and around a rail line doesn't affect operations. A lot of people using it and our metropolitan economy depends on it. So yeah. We should be respectful. So we, we did meet with the MBTA, we had a good meeting.
We had both real estate and planning and you know, a good number of people from the MBTA at that meeting. We shared with them our staging plan for how we would approach it. There are actually, in our case, two separate issues. One is the zone of influence for the work within 30 feet of the property line, which is not just the rail line but also the parking lot. But we, we do in fact want to create that connection through our site to the goat path that goes through the fence today. Yeah. Into the train station and make it nice
and make it accessible and make it paved and make it, you know, responsible solution. So we are going to need also permission for them to do work on their property and we have applied them to Addies file the plans with them, the application fees, and we're in the process with them. So Okay. We think we'll be able to get the required Speaker 1: Approvals. And what's your timeline for that? What do you think, what, what timeline are you on with them? Speaker 3: Well, we heard different timelines. Yeah. Depends on who you talk to, but it's, I think, you know, just for the zone
of influence stuff, hopefully it's three or four months turnaround for the doing work on their property. It could, that piece of it could take a little longer. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Yeah. But within our timeframe, we wanted to start construction next spring. So you, Speaker 1: You feel comfortable you're gonna get those resolved. Okay. Speaker 3: We'll let you know. If it doesn't go well, Speaker 1: Please do. And then I know we're gonna get to the questions from the, the, the public here to the issue of the con com and just coordination. I mean, you know, Amanda, we, we probably spoke about this earlier, not a whole lot
to worry about in terms of impact to the site plan. I mean, if there's things that the conservation commission's gonna wanna see, anything material that would affect what we do and vice versa. I mean, I appreciate them wanting to have, you know, us go first, but I mean, Speaker 7: No, based on the information that I've received, no, there's not anything that would really amend that they were just waiting for to ensure that everything was set. Yeah. Speaker 1: Okay. So it seems like we're on Speaker 3: Yeah. Straightforward path. You know, the, the meeting we've met informally, you know, staff level, but also the commission
and, you know, it's, their area of concern is really limited to protecting the wetlands that are offsite to the rear. Yeah. And it's just, we have a steep banking going down at the bottom of the banking is a little bit of vegetation, so they just wanna make sure the banking doesn't end up at the bottom stays on the top. So not, not a lot of big issues in the storm water. You know, obviously we're reducing the amount of storm water runoff significantly from the current conditions. So I think they're very happy with that. They're happy with the vegetation, preserving trees, increase in per pervious area, all that stuff.
So I think no big, no big issues there. Speaker 1: Okay. Great. Okay. Time for public comment. Anybody in the audience who wishes to speak to the project? Okay. Anybody? Anybody online? Anybody online? Amanda? Speaker 7: There are two members online, but I'm not seeing any hands. Okay. Speaker 1: Okay. All right. No public comments. What is the pleasure of the board here? Continue? I think, yeah, I think we'll continue, we'll we'll do that. But let's, let's recap I think what needs to be done here.
That's what I heard. Again, I appreciate all the collaboration going on here and, and you know, the, the path you're on, I think this is very constructive conversation, constructive dialogue where I think we're moving in the right direction. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Definitely not gonna close the hearing tonight. And just in practice, this board tends to keep the hearing open during deliberation and also the motion to approve will be done most likely during the public hearing. So don't panic if we're not closing the hearing before that.
Okay. I think what we do is, we'll, we'll have one meeting at least and then deliberate and have, you know, a well thought out motion and you know, present it at that, at that next meeting. So that's kinda how I see it going. But a few things I heard certainly focused on the intersection sidewalk investigating what we can do about continuing the sidewalk and incorporating that into the plan as well as evaluating, completing the crosswalk geometry there on four, all four approaches.
If we could look at that and then, you know, investigating what we can do with that right of way, if there's something that we can just sort of, you know, come to an agreement on or not. I, I would rely on Mr. Samson to Speaker 5: Opine on that. I'm just wondering does that have to be a part of, can that be on a separate timeline? I'm thinking for two reasons, timeline reasons. Even devil's advocate, I'm sure these guys don't want to be hearing that. Oh, the town is required to give up Lynn and other for this project to go because that's not the case. Right. You know, we're trying to clean something up. Right. So I think that that's probably a
separate path, Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah. I'm not suggesting we hold that up and we are not suggesting that there's any kind of town meeting actually no, that's not what I'm suggesting. But let's investigate that as a, as a, as an issue. I think that might help both sides here if we can figure that out. There's precedent. I think Scrub aub, didn't we do something up around the scrub AUB entrance and the fire station there? There was Oh yes. Speaker 3: With land, yeah. Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. So it's Speaker 5: Because that was an old roadway. Speaker 1: It was an old right of way. It was because of the old rotary rotary configuration there and yeah.
So I think, you know, this precedent to do that here. So just, I just laid that out as an issue. Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think we do, we understand what you're trying to get to, which is having responsibilities between the town Yep. And the private landowner properly divided. Yes. But yeah, we we're, I'm just gonna lay it out there, very concerned that anything that would require a conveyance from the town be part of that solution, I just don't think it would work from a timing standpoint. So. Yeah. Speaker 1: Understood. Any other issues that we would like a bit of homework done here?
Speaker 5: Kind of still related to the driveway. Just the amount of bend that's required and having trucks being able to get out of the driveway properly. Speaker 1: Truck turning? Speaker 5: Yes. Specifically exiting truck turns. Speaker 3: Yep. Speaker 1: Okay. Speaker 5: I would still like to see a stepped back approach on the backside, but that might just be me. Speaker 1: I mean, I will just, I mean the design review board process is there for a reason. I mean, I, the, the board is set up this process for a reason and getting that input through that process I think is what we should respect.
Yeah. We typically do Speaker 5: Driveway configuration. Speaker 1: No, he's talking about the the building itself. Speaker 5: Yeah. Oh, I thought you meant that the shape of the driveway. Yeah. Speaker 1: Oh, the shape of the driveway. You're talking about the Speaker 5: Building? No, I was talking about the building. Yeah. And, and yeah, maybe I'm overstepping, I don't really, I guess maybe I'm not as familiar with what the design review board does or Speaker 15: The design review board is advisory to the planning board. So ultimately it is our call, however they're there because of the expertise they bring
and we act accordingly. Speaker 1: Okay. I think we're gonna continue the hearing. We have a couple of options coming up in July two week. We we're on a sort of two week cadence here in July. So the 15th and 29th is available Speaker 15: In Speaker 1: July. In July. We have an August 12th meeting in, that's the only one in August, is that correct? No, in August 26th. So 15th 29th. Yeah. Speaker 3: Can we, can we maybe target the 29th? If we can get on your agenda then?
I think two weeks would be tough to respond to all the engineering questions that came up, but I think, yeah, a month from now is this 15th? Speaker 1: 29th. This is 29th. Yep. What Amanda, what do we have on the 15th? Anything? Or I'm sorry, the, the 29th. Speaker 7: We don't have anything scheduled right now for the 15th or the 29th. Okay. So Speaker 1: Move Speaker 5: We continue to July 29th. Speaker 1: So motion to continue this hearing until second. The meeting on July 29th. Seconded by Mr. Nason. All those in favor? Aye. Say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. All those opposed? No. Okay. So we'll see you back here on the 29th. Okay. Thank you.
Speaker 12: Great. Thank Speaker 1: You. Alright. Thank you. Thank Speaker 3: You very much. Alright. Look forward to seeing you later this month. Speaker 1: Thank you. Speaker 12: Okay. Speaker 1: Okay. What else do we have Speaker 12: Here? Speaker 1: So no other, so planning board business, Amanda, we have three things. We have the open space advisory committee update if, if any fall town meetings, zoning articles, if any. And then any, anything else we wanna talk about? Speaker 7: So, so the one item, the open space advisory committee. So Terry's term I guess is coming up, but it is a reappointment
or reconfirmation by the board as sending her as the representative for the planning board. I move, Speaker 1: I move reappointment second. Can I second? Sure. Would you accept? Speaker 15: I I would, if if there are others who are interested in someday assuming the mantle, I would be happy to discuss it with them. I, I have been doing this pretty much as long as I've been on this board. Yes. Which was before hell froze over. Speaker 1: I appreciate the institutional knowledge you bring to it. So we have a motion How long in an institution in a second.
All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Thank you. Yep. Amanda, what is Speaker 7: Annual hotel meeting articles are coming up. So we will be getting those to you. The focus right now is the use regulation schedule doing the final review of that and then some other cleanups associated with that. There was just basic housekeeping of where things are misspelled or not misspelled, but like old terms were used and now we're using the new terms. Then it would be expected for the spring town meeting to have a complete overhaul of the parking regulations,
which is no minimal five D Oh hey. 'cause then that would be using the use regulation schedule to create the off street parking regulation or numbers and having them coincide together Speaker 15: So long over Speaker 1: Two. Can we clean up a really pet peeve of mine is the, what section is it that's numbered versus lettered or roman numeral versus section Speaker 7: Section three 20? Yes. Yes. So that would be actually part of a larger project. So in 2020, I guess we're in it
FY 27, we will be starting to conduct the golden triangle area review to actually redo the entire zoning for that area. That's which would then completely get rid of those Section three 20. Speaker 1: Sorry, let's hope. Okay. Yep. What is the schedule that we need to be aware of working backwards from a potential Speaker 7: October court closes? Usually the third week in August. Speaker 1: Third week in August? Speaker 7: Yes. Okay. So we would have this stuff for you on the July 29th meeting. Speaker 1: Okay. Speaker 7: So we'll add it then
Speaker 1: And the warrant opens in August and then we can have, we can have hearings anytime. Yep. Right before that. Yeah. Okay. But we'll see a draft, we'll see drafts for the 29th. Yep. Okay. Okay. Speaker 15: Sounds And that has driven me crazy as, as long as I have served on this board, the kind of weird number Speaker 7: Go that. Yeah. Yeah. We also have projects that are really depending on it because we've introduced new uses Yes. That we don't know really where to categorize them. But also when we have these mixed use buildings, specifically in the center gateway, downtown mixed use,
we kind of took care of it a little bit for the West central corridor, but it's, you've got, you may require X number of parking spaces, but the use doesn't really need all those parking spaces because they share the uses. So it's really looking at it as a whole for the building. So really getting that also 'cause that's tricking challenges for a couple potential redevelopment projects. Speaker 14: Got it. Okay. Speaker 6: In general. Yep. If a board member has a concern about a project and it, and voices the concern,
but unlike some pro some concerns are voiced and others chime in. If no one chimes in on this concern, does it just go away? I mean, how, how Speaker 14: An active application or a built project or Speaker 6: Process, active application. We, Speaker 14: We've, we've certainly had attrition of even if one member has a concern and they're dogged about it, it gets addressed. Yeah. So I would say it, you know, if it's minor and you bring it up and say something
and kind of no big deal, that probably stays there. But if there's a, if there's a dogged opinion, even if it's just one member, it, it doesn't really just go away. And Speaker 6: How, just, how would you suggest that be dogged, dogged? Do how Speaker 14: You talk about it. Raise it, let us know. Speaker 6: At, Speaker 15: At, at a meeting, Speaker 6: At the or successive meeting. It'd have to be next meetings. Speaker 14: I is it, is it a specific project? Yes. Well, I'd say when the project is open and it's board commentary, you know,
this particular issue really bugs me. I really want to get an answer. I wanna understand more about it or I want it solved. I mean, Speaker 6: Is this board concerned with how much is this board concerned with the future use of a, a project if it changes from its original intent in some way, in some dramatic way and it becomes something else. I've heard this board discuss, well what happens if, if gonna, the bus comes through and runs us over. And we've heard that before, but a terrible analogy. But anyway, if, if, are we at all concerned?
How, how much are we concerned with some change that might take place that maybe the applicant didn't anticipate, but that it has a very potentially significant, it could likely have a very significant impact if it's not, if the project is not at all prepared for that change. And I lost Speaker 1: Well, I mean I think that it's, that's what the public hearing process is about, is raise it, raise it, you know, vociferously if you want to. I think there's also the opportunity when we deliberate. I mean, I think that's my vision of what we do next,
as you know, in these projects is deliberate and talk about those issues. Not necessarily in reaction to a presentation, but talk about the issues here. And then when we do our findings and our motions, let's get more specific about those and what we wanna see. Because I, I would rather see the motions more detailed that gets translated easily into the decision versus Amanda trying to be a mind reader. One last, I think one last part. Speaker 6: How at what point do we, are we deliberating when the applicant is not here and we're deliberating
but the project is open for a Speaker 1: Discussion? Well, this is procedurally, and we should talk about this when we talk about the rules and regs. My personal opinion, I'm not, I I I'm the chair. I don't want to impose my strong opinion on this, but I really think the cleanest thing to do as a board is have the public hearing the testimony, you know, the applicant presents, we get public comment, we can ask questions, et cetera. But when we feel like things are coming to a close, we close the hearing, then we can deliberate. And that's the point where we can't talk about it.
They, they can be here, they can not be here. But closing the hearing is a way for us to have that conversation. I know we've, we've tended to hold them open for, you know, valid reason. Mr. Myers brought this up in the past. What if we miss something in a motion or drafting the decision? Do we have to reopen the hearing and to do that? Maybe. But if we get more disciplined about the back and forth during a public hearing and we, and we elicit the comments and the presentation and we feel like we're at a comfort level, we can close the hearing and then deliberate.
That I think is the cleaner way Okay. To do it. You know, if you're asking questions of the applicant and you're not getting satisfactory answers or maybe the board isn't tracking with you or whatever Speaker 6: It means. Yeah. That, that's, that's what's happening. Speaker 1: Okay. Speaker 6: And so what happens it should it just go away? No, it doesn't go away. The board is not tracking. It does go away with me. The board doesn't seem to be picking up on it. Like for instance, well we've heard an item is mentioned and others on the board pick up on the subject and and continue on it.
Yeah. andSo almost resolve it if it's mentioned by, in this case something that I mentioned that I really, and a lot of times it, it's, I can recognize the difference between subjective and, and just, and if this is something beyond that, that I really think this, this is a, there's a flaw. I really think there's a flaw. I mentioned that in one other project some years ago, a few years ago. And I look at the project today that's now completed and I say I was absolutely right. Absolutely right. And plus some,
because a lot of things happened. But this is, this is, Speaker 14: Well Pete, you're, you're an elected member. Yeah. You, you're, and you know, the board's always been populated by people that have various interests and things they pay attention to. We've had people that pay attention to landscaping issues. People pay attention to the lighting issues, sound issues, you know, so we all have our own kind of things that we keep our eye on. But I think the culture of the board is to support a member that has something that's really bugging them. I I, you know, you've been on the board long enough to know, you know, stick with it. Say what it is, make your case, let us know. And, and
Speaker 6: It's, I'm concerned with that. What point do I do it in front of the applicant where I've gotten a response from the applicant and I would be going head to head with their feeling about it. Now it's their feeling. I, and I'm just really looking to see if, and it didn't ha it doesn't happen if the somebody else in the board feels that way and we push this thing. 'cause I really think it's a mistake. Speaker 15: Have, have you had the opportunities to kind of, I, because I don't recall it, but to kind of face the rest of the board
and say, are there others of you who you know, have seen this or I've had concerns about this. Speaker 6: Alright. At that time I would be delighted to do that. The particular situation is such that it's with the, with the applicant has, has given an answer. If the applicant has given an answer to something to a concern. And if it's a real as as you can tell, an important concern to me, and, but it goes nowhere beyond that at that moment, Speaker 1: I guess press it I guess.
I mean, we don't have to take anything at face value either. You know, we have expertise on this board across all five of us here and Amanda sitting here. So, you know, Gandy said, we've all got different perspectives. We don't have to take it at face value. And we haven't, even in recent history, we haven't taken at face value what the consultant team or the design team or the applicant team brings forth. Our job is to pick that apart or, or praise whatever. But, you know, ask the tough questions. Speaker 6: Is this forum at this moment Yeah. This forum right now at this time,
can this form dis this form discuss a project? If it's, it's if it's a, a real project that we're dealing with Speaker 1: Right now, at this moment. Right. Speaker 6: That's what I'm concerned about is this is Speaker 1: Not No, Speaker 6: No. Okay. That's why Speaker 1: I'm, we need to do it as a, in the public hearing, being as bleak Speaker 6: As Speaker 1: Possible. Now what we've done in the past as, you know, if there are particular sets of issues that are best vetted in a subcommittee, right. We've done working groups in the past Right. And we've done it on projects. You and I have been on a couple of those. Right. So, you know, that's often effective. Right.
So that, that's another way to do it. And I would also just say to the, the board, you know, bringing up, you don't have to have the answer to every question you ask. Right. But if there's something that you feel strongly about, ask the question and maybe suggest a condition or, or some solution along with the question. Right. That's, that would be helpful, I think. 'cause a lot of times, you know, there are lots of issues we can, we can ask a question maybe we don't know the answer. It just hangs out there and the answer we get back is what it is. It hangs in the air and that's it.
Or there could be, Hey, I've got a question. I think I know the answer to it. Suggest this. And that's something they can take back. So again, the the homework assignment kind of thing. Right. But you don't necessarily need a majority behind you to press an issue. Right. Speaker 6: You know, Speaker 5: And, and sometimes I might be quiet because I had nothing else to add. Whatever you said was fine with me and I I had nothing else. You know, because as Doug mentioned, we all have our, Speaker 1: And you are heard mis and I, I wanna make sure everybody on this board is hurt. So don't feel like you're not okay.
And if you are kick, kick somebody under the table. Speaker 6: Well, I know it, it's, it recorded, it's on, I mean that we do that at these meetings. So wherever I had that concern, it's been recorded, I'm sure. Speaker 1: Okay. Speaker 6: Okay. Thank you. Do you Speaker 1: Have a motion for us? Sorry. Maybe. Do you have a motion for us, Mr. Not get the Speaker 6: Hell out. Motion to Speaker 1: Adjourn. Oh, motion ajour. Second. Second, second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion Adjourn to adjourn approves. That's nice.