Speaker 1: Thank you to to everybody who came here. I wanted to just briefly say why we're here, because the finance committee didn't have a recommendation for a town meeting. All I had in the recommendation book from the select board is just what our vote was without any context around it. So in discussion with the moderator and Jamie, we decided that it would be a good idea for us to
put our position out on paper. So let me get the meeting officially started. And this is the meeting of the Natick Select Board on October 21st. And where did my agenda was there a second? Bear with me. One second. Okay, so I'm calling it to order at 1205. I do not see anybody online on public speak, so we'll go right into the discussion and decision review and approve. Memo for 2025. Fall on your time meeting.
We everybody, Mr. Mr. Evans? Yes. Could Speaker 2: I share my screen with my revisions? I sent them only to you. Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'll get to that. Let's, several people did so well, let's Yes, take them in order. Let, yeah, let's, let me drive this meeting. Rich, please. Sure. Okay, so let's do, let's go back to Zoom. Back to Zoom. Okay. So what I'm gonna do is allow multiple people
share simultaneously. So hopefully that will work everybody. Did everybody have a chance to look at it? I know Rich did and Catherine did. Linda's nodding her head yes. Yes, Kristen. Okay, great. All right. So why don't I first go through what my intention was. First thing I did was to sort of chronicle what had happened at both our meeting and Fin Comm's review, but then I realized I did not want to make a transcript
of all those items. So what I ended up doing was to take the approach that this is focusing on the policy rather than the chronology. And that's, this is what I ended up with. So, you know, it basically starts out saying, here's what was pr, here's what's, what the motion is about, that we in principle agree with the idea of better access to zoning council, but we think
that this approach is not a good approach. The Article 31, motion B, and then it goes through the rest. So Rich, why don't I let you share your piece for your significantly changes first. Speaker 2: Okay. So overarching, there were a couple of things, and I'll get into some of the details later. I wanted to take the focus off of Mr. Greer and put it onto the CVRC. Yep. So, as much as possible I took, I changed Mr. Greer's name throughout, so, okay,
Speaker 1: That's fair. That's an accept. Does everybody agree that should change? I agree. That should change. Yeah, that's a good change. I agree. Speaker 2: Yep. Speaker 1: Yep. Speaker 2: We don't need to say special here because we say it later. Yeah, Speaker 1: Agree. Speaker 2: I don't think we need this third bullet at all. Catherine had a different approach and we can talk about it. Speaker 1: Okay. Let me, let me just say why I think it's essential. Mr. Greer has stated on innumerable occasions, how, how much zoning,
how much zoning articles, how how many zoning articles are coming before a town meeting. And it's excessive. And what I wanted to convey here is that it's not just because, you know, we feel like having lots of zoning articles, excuse me, come before a town meeting. But this is partly due to the MBTA Communities Act and Affordable Homes Act, in addition to cleaning up our zoning bylaws. Speaker 2: Well then I might make it last as opposed to third. That's just a comment. You whatever you Okay.
Whatever we decide is fine. Speaker 1: Okay. Let me table that until, yeah, you said Speaker 2: S makes sense. Alright, so a lot of this is the same, getting rid of Mr. GRE's name and I spelled out Tom Meeting and Finance Committee throughout. Speaker 1: Yep, Speaker 2: That's fine. And then this last is just to make it a little more clean English and add that we agree as well as acknowledge. Speaker 1: Hmm. Okay. That's fair. I like streamlined though better. What are other people's thoughts on that? And actually, now that I'm thinking about it,
Jamie had some good language that he suggested for the last paragraph. So let just read that. Speaker 3: Yeah. Last two graphs. Speaker 1: Last two, did I say one? Speaker 2: Yep. Speaker 1: Okay. All right. Sorry, I think I actually read that doc. Anyway, let me, let me read it. There is no recommendation from the finance committee to town meeting regarding this article displaying the lack of consensus regarding this item warranting its further review. Given this, the select board unanimously recommends the town
meeting refer the article to the town administrator and the select board for further consideration. In addition, the select board acknowledges the need for streamlined access to legal counsel on zoning issues and will work with the planning board, town administrator and others to identify and remedy any obstacles that may limit such a access. I I thought that Speaker 2: Was, I would add the agree, the, the agreement. Speaker 1: Okay. Acknowledges and agree, please. Got it. Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's good. I like this paragraph. Speaker 2: I'm good with that. I, I did not need,
I did, I think that's much better. Yep. Speaker 1: Yep. Agree. That was my opinion also. Speaker 2: Okay. So those are my comments. Bruce, you already have them. You can Okay. Take them or, you know, merge them in as you Speaker 1: Need. No, they, they're, they're all good. They're all good comments. Yep. How do pe Well, let's go on to Catherine if you don't mind, and 'cause she had some comments that she had also reviewed with Harris on a couple of them. So, Catherine, do you have yours? Or I can share it if it's easier. Speaker 4: Could, could you share it? 'cause it hurts to talk.
Speaker 1: Okay. Let me make sure I get the right one here. That's it. Speaker 3: Do you copy me on that Catherine as well? Is it one of the ones you copied Speaker 4: Me? I, I did. It's the redo second sent the second time the Speaker 3: Redux. Okay. Speaker 4: See the second reduc? 'cause the first one didn't even attach it. Speaker 1: Okay. Do share. You got, it's coming up now. Everybody see that? Speaker 4: Yes. Speaker 1: Okay. Okay. Take it away, Catherine. Speaker 4: So Speaker 3: Can I ask a quick question, Catherine,
while you're, while you're Yeah. Prepping, it looks like the yellows are really Speaker 4: Added, Speaker 3: Are adjustments. Speaker 1: Yes. Okay. Speaker 3: Okay. So if we just focus on those, I mean, we can always incorporate, I think, Bruce, what you just went through with, with, and Speaker 4: So just noting timely access to town council, not just special counsel. So rather than just saying it sh third paragraph, second paragraph rather, rather than saying that it should be integrated, because that doesn't mean we will should and can be integrated within the existing town
council framework to the extent possible. Next paragraph, the third one, you can keep it or not. I don't feel strongly about it, but I know that cares has worked really hard. I did reference somewhere that town council as being a, they, because we have a whole firm, not just cares. So I, I can go either way on that last sentence of the third paragraph. I, I don't Speaker 5: Think that gets us really, I mean, it's not really germane to this argument. Speaker 4: Okay. Yeah, let's strike it then. Speaker 1: Yeah, Speaker 4: It's the last paragraph, last sentence
of paragraph three and then the bottom of paragraph four. Speaker 2: Can you scroll up Bruce? Speaker 1: Yep. I'm getting there. And yep, there we're, Speaker 4: So if we're going to be using, excuse me, if we're gonna be using abbreviations like c, ED and think we should spell 'em out first. I thought about that. Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think I caught that. Yeah. Speaker 2: Yeah, I, that was the same thing I had. I did, I had as well. Speaker 5: Yeah, I think Rich got those didn't you? Rich? Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Except for CEDI think. Except
Speaker 2: For c, ED. Okay. Speaker 4: And then just explaining what's been different recently. So town council and everybody got the most recent rounds of zoning changes to council earlier. Yeah. Speaker 1: I like this Speaker 2: Town. Council C should be capitalized, I think Speaker 1: Where council, the, the, that's a global issue. Yes. I I saw that in another place too. So yeah, actually Speaker 4: What I would do there is I'm looking at it now saying that town council.dot dot worked harder to get it to town council isn't,
I would just strike the first town council. I make it capital T the CED director. Speaker 1: Okay. So TC eliminated, Speaker 3: Is it, is it worth making this statement a little bit broader than just this one time for town meeting? Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was wondering. Speaker 3: Like perhaps it's something like, Speaker 4: Or maybe, you know, have been working to submit zoning changes to town council earlier than previously. Not typical. Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe exactly. The typical is what kind of throws me off. It could be like c director and the planning board continue to work
Speaker 5: Yeah. Speaker 3: To, to improve the timeliness and, you know, process for review or something along those lines. If you want, I can try to wordsmith something, but Speaker 2: No. Do you at the end of continuing Bruce Speaker 1: Yep. Thank you. Speaker 3: And are committed to continuing to improve the process for all or something like that. Speaker 1: Continue. I like Speaker 4: That. Speaker 5: Yeah. I think, I think we Speaker 1: Say that one more time, Jamie. Speaker 5: I think we can trust Jamie to wordsmith this. I think that Speaker 3: I need, I need to wordsmith. Yeah. But I, I I think I understand what the intent is. I'm just trying to wordsmith it in
a way that, alright, let's Speaker 1: Just Yeah. And Speaker 2: I'm okay with Jamie wordsmithing a little bit in here. Yeah, Speaker 1: Absolutely. Okay. Yeah, Speaker 4: I was gonna suggest that any motion to adopt the memo would be contingent upon Yeah. Review for scrivener's errors and, and others left the discretion of town administration. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 4: Sounds So we don't go Speaker 1: Back and forth. Look at that. We already have a motion. Okay. So Speaker 2: I'll second that motion. We can continue. Do we have, continue the discussion, but that you can consider that motion seconded? Speaker 4: I think that's all I have. Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.
Can you stop the share on that, Linda? I have, Speaker 5: I have more too. I did not get a chance. I was planning on doing it this morning except my dog let me get three hour sleep last night. So that didn't happen. Oh yeah. So if you, if you would just bring it up. I, I'll tell you what my comments are. Speaker 1: All right. Let me make sure I bring up the correct draft. Speaker 5: You can bring up any, any draft. I can just, Speaker 1: Okay. Let's see. Speaker 2: Oh, and we should we, let's after Linda, let's talk about whether that para, that bullet point should be third or last. Speaker 1: Okay. Remind me. Okay.
Speaker 5: I don't think we need the second paragraph at all. And particularly in light of, we're gonna be mentioning the CBRC and, and, and not Paul be, because I think it's actually confusing because this mo article 31 is not a change to the zoning bylaw. I know it involves zoning, but I think that it's, I I don't think that that's the point we need to make there because this changed is not a Speaker 1: Here's, sorry. Speaker 5: And I, and I get that. Here's Speaker 1: What my thinking was there. Okay. My,
my thinking was I do not want it to be an adversarial memo to Mr. Greer. And what I wanted to, to convey there is we appreciate his efforts in trying to refine this. Speaker 5: I I don't think we should, should, Speaker 1: And it's really not refining the zoning bylaw Speaker 5: R Right. But I think that, how Speaker 1: Do others feel about that Speaker 5: Given that we're changing the first paragraph and not saying, Paul, we're gonna be saying put forward by the charter and bylaw review committee. Right. We're gonna, we're gonna delete Paul from
that first paragraph. Speaker 4: Yeah. Actually on second thought I or fifth thought I agree with you. I understand that Great intent. It's just that, Speaker 1: So everything after put forward by Paul gr town meeting member here, the charter, it just ends with charter and bylaw Speaker 5: Committee. Yeah. Put forward by the charter and bylaw review committee because they're the sponsor of that article. Speaker 4: Yeah. Okay. Speaker 5: So, and, and that's why, and that's the other reason why I don't feel like that second paragraph is important.
Okay. And then I would just get rid of that entirely. I would say while the C BRCs proposal has merit in its intent, we believe there are other Speaker 1: Approaches. Yeah. Okay. Speaker 5: And, and I think that that still works. Speaker 1: That that still Yeah. Gets the point of us. Yeah. Speaker 3: Bruce, can I ask a quick question? Yeah. In the opening paragraph? Yeah. Maybe Rich already fixed this, so I apologize if you did. It said that the bo board of voting unanimously in opposition to the motion Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 3: Board recommendation on page 30 committee book is referral. Speaker 1: I just noticed that also. Speaker 3: Okay. Speaker 1: Yeah. So we, we should change that vote unanimously
to refer Yes. Speaker 3: Or put something here whereby it's a little bit more about the select board, debated the merits of, of article blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Later on in the Yeah, Speaker 1: I like that. Speaker 3: It is, it, I I'm not committed to that. I'm just trying to think of a way to sort of tell the story a little bit more. Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I, I agree. That's a good catch though. We didn't oppose the article Speaker 3: Voted. Okay. Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. Okay. What if we Speaker 6: Said something along the lines, and I don't know if this is too kind or too dressed up,
but, you know, gave thoughtful deliberation Speaker 3: Yeah. And thoughtful deliberation and question the need for the intent of article. Something like that. Speaker 5: I, Speaker 2: I don't wanna, I, Speaker 6: I know about question the need, but I, I think the idea that we gave thoughtful deliberation to this article Yeah. You know, kind of positions us as a, as a board who, who does do that. Yeah. Speaker 1: Yeah. I like that. That's good, crystal. I like that. Yeah. Speaker 2: And I just noticed something else in the second bullet point. Change the word members to the words the board.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: Becausecause, you don't want get agrees confused between the board and town meeting members. Speaker 1: Yeah. What I do. Yep. The board agrees. Okay. Speaker 5: All right. The, the part that's the part I think is missing here to give context because remember the audience is town meeting. They may not realize that. I think we need to add something about how the select board, you know, is, is charged under the, the bylaws or the charter, I don't remember where it is to appoint town council on an annual basis. Yeah. I think we need to say that upfront that,
you know, and here it is. Give the reference whatever it is. Speaker 1: Yeah. Actually I do get to that later. Speaker 5: Yeah. But I think that ought to be upfront to explain like, why are we involved at all? Right. Why, why is it that, that we're involved with appointing council? And I think that we need to say that the select board is the authority, appointing authority for town council right up front. So Yeah, Speaker 2: I agree with that. People Speaker 5: Get that understanding because now a lot of, a lot of town meeting members might not know that. And we know that Yeah. C rrc knows that, but we, you know, why is the select board writing in,
you know, a memo on this? Right. Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's a good, great point. Okay. I'll add that. Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that part was missing for context. Speaker 1: Okay. I like that. Yeah. Okay. Speaker 5: And then, sorry, Speaker 1: I scroll Yeah, scroll down. Forgetting that I was sharing, Speaker 5: I think the other part that's missing that we talked about and is the, the concept that that, you know, the select board, in addition to appointing town council often also engages special counsel so that it, so that it would not be unusual for the select board to take this under their umbrella.
'cause that's gonna be the argument, right? That, you know, why is the select board doing this? And, and if it's something that we feel should be part of the town council process, then, you know, I think that we should say that we also, you know, have done this, you know, we mentioned, Speaker 1: So should we cite an exam? Speaker 5: Yes. For Yeah. Speaker 1: Should we cite an example like alcohol licensing Speaker 2: Bylaw 22, section eight to specifically discusses special interim counsel, Speaker 5: Right. Yeah. So I think we ought, we ought to say, we ought to say that and give some examples. You know, for example, you know,
we have special alcohol counsel or marijuana counsel or whatever we wanna throw in there. But I, I think it's important to know that this is not unusual that we do this on a regular basis, that we've done it on a regular basis and this is why we should be brought in and, and doing this as well for any specialty zoning council. Speaker 2: So I wanna, I want take, I, I think you're right, Linda, but I want to, I wanna think about whether we want to mention Litigation Council because we do hire special litigation council frequently. Speaker 1: Yeah. Speaker 2: But it's always behind executive session,
so it may or may not be a good example. Speaker 5: Yeah. Speaker 1: I'm wondering if that opens up more problems than it solves well, Speaker 2: Here. Exactly. That was my thought. Speaker 5: But the, the issue with that, and I think it's a good one, and, and I think that it, it is important because when we're talking about zoning bylaws, you know, if you're talking about hiring a special counsel, you know, for, for alcohol laws, I mean, yes, maybe litigation would be involved, but if, if we're hiring something that is outside of the norm, you know, we've talked about this in the past, how we don't wanna get with, with between warring councils,
especially if, if something is litigated eventually that causes all kinds of issues for us. So I don't know if we wanna stick that in this memo, but I think it is a concern Speaker 2: If frequently, Speaker 1: I think that might be better done from the floor of town meeting when it comes up to just say, you know, we don't want to have two independent councils going at it and having town meeting have to decide, you know, whether they decide what, say the planning board does a recommend zoning recommendation and this, the independent special council says, no, don't do that.
Do this and town meeting does the special councils approach, the planning board has the legal authority there. So if something goes off the rails, the town is liable for it, nevertheless, because town meeting voted for it. So I think that gets to the heart of the matter that you're talking about. Yep. Speaker 5: Yep. We, we, Speaker 2: Yeah. And most the time when we hire special council, other than when town meeting tells us to, it's because our, our town council has recommended that. Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
Let me take a stab at writing up what Linda was, was saying. Not always though, but Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Yeah. True. All right, I'll, I'll just write a note that says conflict between two independent to independent councils and planning board impact town liability. And not just the planning board though. Speaker 5: No, it's not. But, but it's, you know, Speaker 1: That's the example I'm gonna use here because it's talking about zoning. Okay. Sorry Linda, you had something? Speaker 5: No, I mean, I think those were the,
my main, my main points. Speaker 1: Okay. Okay. Kristen, do you have any other, other ideas? I liked your, your first one on the deliberation. No. Speaker 6: After having gone through Rich's changes around shifting the attention and the focus from Mr. Grs murder to cbc, I thought the same things about the opening paragraphs that Linda brought up. And so we've gone through that. That was my biggest thing, was I think toning this in a way
that doesn't, is not so pointed to him and saying that, you know, almost putting us on one side of the street and the CRBC and him on the other side of the street, but rather, not Speaker 1: Typically him, Speaker 6: But rather that this is a, this is more of a collaborative Yeah. Working experience that, you know, he's brought concerns to the table. We listen to them thoughtfully and we also agree that council is needed and we would love to come to
an agreement on how that's done. We, we just, we see this as is not the one, it's not necessarily the path. So I think all of those tenants are there and, and, and thus far I, I mean, I agree. I think that that piece that Jamie gave about voted unanimously to refer is important versus saying voted in unanimously in opposition. Speaker 1: Yeah, I know how that got in there, honestly. Anyway. Okay. Anything else? I know Rich wanted to talk about. Speaker 5: I I have one more. Speaker 1: The paragraph. Speaker 5: Yeah. One more thing, one more thing.
We, we need to make sure that right past the bullet points that we Okay. Introduced Paul Greer that we say, you know, heard Article 31, blah, blah, blah, Mr. Greer, you know, Paul Greer, CBRC chair said the CBRC, because that, that would be the first mention of him. Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah. Now that we've taken it down elsewhere. Speaker 5: Yeah. Speaker 1: Okay. Excellent. Good connection. Thank you. Okay. Rich, wanted to talk about where
to put, I'll just highlight Speaker 2: It. The third bullet. Speaker 1: That one. Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Any thoughts on that? Speaker 2: I, I think it's, I I think it's more important, you know, if you think about it in terms of the way people read, it's the least important bullet of the four. Yeah. Speaker 1: Well, yeah. I can see putting that as the, what is it, fourth bullet at the end. Speaker 2: And that's all I'm saying. If you're gonna include it and you have good reasons for that, I think it should be last. Speaker 1: All right. I can do that. Okay.
Any other thoughts before I do a revamp here? Speaker 3: Just for, for folks, I sent a brief, just, I tried to take that one paragraph that we talked about and put into a single sentence. So I sent it to you all via email. I can read it just real quick right now for the record, just so that it's on the record. Okay. And then Bruce, you can put it in there and then we can, I can work with you after this meeting to just finalize it. But I said the CED director and planning board continue to work to get these zoning changes to town council and others IE finance committee in more timely
and efficient approaches to ensure ample time for complete and thorough review in advance of town meeting. I think that, I like that Speaker 2: It looks fine to me only changes. And our, our motion allows you guys to work that out, by the way. Speaker 3: Sorry, what we gonna say, Linda? Speaker 2: Yeah. Only changes IE should be EG instead. Speaker 3: Oh, yep. No, that's good. I use ie way too much, so eg makes more sense, eg. Yep, Speaker 1: Yep. Big catch. Speaker 3: We can make that. Okay. Speaker 1: Okay. So we have a motion, if I can remember correctly from,
Speaker 2: Well, I got it written down if you'd like Mr. Evans. Yeah, Speaker 1: Go ahead please. So Speaker 2: Approve the memo with amendments, scrivener errors and town administrator editing, and it was made by Ms. Coughlin and seconded by me. Speaker 1: Thank you. Okay, so we gotta do a voice vote on that one, which is, we'll let Catherine go first so she can get some sleep or drink of water or something. Yes. Mr. Sidney. Yep. Ms. Pope. Yes. Ms. Slager. Yes.
And I, I'm a s also, so thank you so much for the, the, all the great contribution and review of this. I'll work with Mr. Erickson to, to get this done and get it out to town meeting members. So thank you again. We'll, we'll I'll send, we'll probably send Jamie, I don't know what your schedule is for this, but I'm gonna work on this now and then maybe we could send it out back to the committee later for final before we say print these.
Yep. Does that make sense? Speaker 3: Yeah. I think when, when you get done, just email to me and then shoot me a quick text so I know when to look just in case I'm between meetings or away from my desk. And then I'll make sure to look at it right away and then we can try to just get a final version to everybody while I print it. Is the intent to try to have it on the, on the table tonight? Speaker 1: Think that's a good, good idea? Yeah, I'd like to because people tend to collect things on the first day and forget Speaker 3: We'll also with Jeff to make sure he's comfortable, comfortable with that. Yeah. I think he, this coming, I just wanna make sure he,
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do, do you wanna talk to him or do, do you want me to Well, Speaker 3: Let's finalize it first and then we can send it over to him. Okay. And say part our conversation on Friday. Okay. He might, he might say read it into the record instead of print it out, but I'll just plan on printing copies. 'cause this is being two pages. I can make a two-sided, it can be a single page thing that people can grab. So even if, even if we, we end up not being able to put it on the table, at least not until he sees it, we can still have it available. Speaker 2: Yeah. And he's expecting, by the way, the articles 11 and 12 memos, which you already have.
And Billy has to be on the table tonight, so, okay. Speaker 3: Just Rich is your ex is, and I apologize if you already talked to Billy about this, but are we printing that out as well here? Speaker 2: Yes, please. Okay. I, I already did talk to Billy and also to John Marshall. Speaker 3: Hi. I'll make sure that a deck is in if you already talk to them. I'm sure. I'm confident that they're doing it, but Speaker 2: Yeah. Speaker 1: Perfect. Sounds good. Good. Any other questions or observations or any of that stuff? Speaker 2: Thanks everybody. Yeah, I just an update, I received an email from Karis regarding Article 11.
Okay. So I'll have another amendment which I'll be throwing out to Ms to moderator to add some additional references that she identified that she checked them all, which is good. But she had some additional ones to put in that table. So I'll get that to the moderator today sometime. Okay. Speaker 1: Okay. Excellent. The Speaker 3: Only other thing on this, Bruce, but just want the board to be aware. We'll, once the word verbiage is done, we'll put it on select board letterhead and, and get that Yeah. Letterhead. Speaker 1: Yeah, I figured we could do that. Speaker 3: I wanna get all the verbiage done first.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was thinking also. Okay. Sounds good. Move to adjourn. Sorry, Ajo. That was Linda, right? That was Catherine seconded by Ms. Pop. No, that was Catherine Speaker 6: Who f who made the motion and I think Linda seconded. Speaker 1: Yep. Okay. Wrong on both front Bruce. Yeah, that was a, that was a er. All right. All in favor please say Aye. Aye. Roll roll call with roll call vote, which is Catherine. Yes. Yes. Linda? Yes. Mr. Sydney. Yep.
Ms. Pope. Yes. And I may, yes. Also. So that's adjourned at 1237.