##VIDEO ID:8exsNErE43Q## all right uh let's call the uh the January meeting of the town of new human resources board to order present are Doyle Mark blechman John Ferrar Anthony ano thank you all we have four members present that gives us our our Quorum so we're we're good to go uh L PB should be joining us momentarily and unfortunately Chief fiser is unable to attend today but again we have our Quorum so uh everything is legal to move ahead first order of abysses is to approve the minutes from the prior meeting Diane as always thank you in advance for getting those minutes to the board is there a motion to accept motion has everyone I'm sorry has anyone everyone had the opportunity to read through yes there motion will accept motion is there a second second any discussion all in favor of accepting the Amendments as ritten and say I I thank you again D employee issues di return to you nothing I'm aware of is there anything that's hey ly hi I just signed the book and got my stickers okay uh I'm not aware of any employee issues that have brought to my attention Okay thank you and I have not heard anything from Chief fer in that regard either than PD so okay then we just we just approved the minutes from the last meeting so okay thank you y uh Personnel actions and job baces I know we've had a flurry of stuff happen over the last couple months but I think one I were reasonably good shape yeah I think I went back at where we were at um so we have had a couple of recent resignations um the first one is a full-time dispatcher at the police department who is moving on to another Community um um in the hopes of uh pursuing a career in more in the police side of things versus dispatch um so he will be leaving the end of this week and we just had a uh resignation of a full-time firefighter um who is pursuing his em certification and felt that he needed to focus on that so those two jobs will be posted I'm assuming these both just came to my attention today so but other than that I think we are I think we that's it that's all those those are the only two job openings that we have I mean and those just came those just came to my attention yeah this week well good for us as I know as of two months ago and I lost me the police department still had one full-time patrolman position available is that one been filled you know well we hired um James Fitzgerald and oh maybe she has won fulltime so now she'll have one time one full-time dispatch and one fulltime control okay so that's still the case okay we not get leave of actions to folks who want to advance their education you go for the EMT calls and then you come on back on we will but he he he submitted his resignation I think he's moving you think he's New Village yeah okay um you're right so that will now be a full-time dispatcher a full-time police officer okay and one full-time firefighter okay but here in town hall things are good yeah good thank you I'm not aware of any work Place issues discrimination issues ethics issues everything seems to be moving along smoothly hope that's the case y safety issues typically returned as she fish I assume if there's anything new in terms of protocol she would have alerted us to that nothing else is happening here at Town Hall thank you all right other business um we have had some some dialogue with Sandy step sinsky uh and the good news is that she is well into her timeline the expectation if you recall back in November was that would be probably a three-month project give or take and um as of recent conversations that Diane and Tracy have had with Sandy she is still on Pace to be done with the project within the three Monon time frame which means that as I think we originally talked about uh we should expect that Sandy will join us for our next meeting in February as as well as as Tracy I think yeah I believe so I mean I'll have to check with Tracy but once Sandy has sent along some very preliminary work that she's done uh is as we expected it's it's a composition of 10 or 12 towns I think all in and around Essex uh County the towns that you would expect you she would be comparing and contrasting this two uh and she's got a good deal of this of the um the SPAC is filled in with uh we're not clear at this point we're waiting to get clarification for her whether some of the numbers are actual pay rates or I think in most cases they probably salary ranges but it's fair difficult I think in in our industry the Ms and the Maxes um she still has a ways to go in terms of gathering the rest of that data I'm not sure how many towns have been tardy and getting getting back to her um I think the hope my expectation is that everything will be in place within the next two weeks which means we will be able to get her to give us sent I guess probably through Diane Diane can distribute to the rest of us give us the entire package of the the rate information where it sits Visa you know competitive towns in in Essex County and then we're looking at you know certain percentages certain percentiles where do you want to be as a town um let me turn it over D she's had a little bit more conversation with with Sandy y so so I reached out to her just probably two or three weeks ago just to see where she was you know what the status was and get an understanding of kind of like are we still on track what you do e anything um so she had sent us a preliminary data sheet basically which was that salary survey um and you know again she she indicated that she's still waiting for some responses that she expects to get back so it was not in fin format but um and she had indicated that she said I may have the pay in class um all theity information in terms of the classification schedule and compensation um ranges and so forth she thought she would have it today so she did send over another email today with some additional information and I think I we thought about bringing sort of the preliminary information and and providing it tonight but I I looked at it and felt without further discussion or further clarification it just wasn't appropriate because a she's waiting for still more information we don't know certain things and without her here to answer questions we kind of felt like it would be yeah but I think prary for the open rep I mean I I I think it's important we try to get it within a couple weeks so that we'll have at least a week or so to digest it stud it yeah prepare questions quiz her on whatever we need to quiz her on so the other two things that I'll add is she when I got the information from her today she said she's still wrapping up the benefits information that she promised us that she would look at as well and my understanding is that when she presents it to us it still will be in draft format for discussion and then it will be finalized based on the discussions that we have um because she wanted to know things like Mark started to indicate do we want to be at the 50 percentile do we want to be at the 75 percentile do we you know where do we want to be and how what what are the things that we're looking for so that she can Benchmark it against some of those decisions um do we want to consider step increases do we have step increases we we have step increases in a lot of our collective bargaining agreements but um so those types of conversations I think is what she expects to have on February 24th when she brings the draft of her findings so so um to Mark's point then do we want um a draft before even she gets here or is that just going to be kind of opening the can of worms for us you know like without her here to navigate our conversation thoughts well I would think that perusal and Discovery process ahead of time where we could spend time on oneon-one one and them as a group here together uh even if you have to call a special half meeting and then we bring her in yeah I'd rather have the homework done subcommittee meeting maybe in advance if if possible okay yeah that was my inclination too that that uh my guess is each one of us would look at all this data and something or some things would catch our individual eyes that You' want to Circle and and double back with her on it but to the point that that Dian was just making I think it's important that we have some additional dialogue with Tracy so we can understand from the town administrator's perspective what what goodness looks like in in terms of how we want to compare and contrast with other towns I mentioned I am that I remember I wrote myself a note didn't bring it today course I wrote myself a note probably a year ago when we were starting to ruminate on this and one of my first questions to myself was where does the town of Nu want to be or need to be and that's I that's a philosophical conversation right uh you know do we feel it's necessary to be at the top of the range versus our competition do we feel we should we want to be at a midpoint do we want to be at 65% of the market or 75% of the market or whatever the number might be and what are we measuring what those percentages outlay for a number of items within the budget I mean I brought up to you I I think I sent you a copy of the Manchester Bud C report 2021 and and the gentleman who was the treasurer at the time he had your house your job and he's no longer sitting in that chair and government police fire public safety education Public Works Human Resources etc etc etc Debt Service and and fixed costs and where do we rank amongst salpr sale rowy Rockport Newbury Marvel head Ipswich Hamilton Gloucester Essex danders Beverly and of course Manchester by with dead smack in the middle on almost every single category and Manchester is the tallest of the bunch M uh maybe it's because they have combined schools because they've got Essex and Manchester together and I've been on that campus and that's an expensive outlay but I mean that's it's it's been done before so back to to ly's original question I mean I don't think it does us any harm to have it in advance and hold on I mean gives us an opportunity to write down a laundry list of questions right um you think we'll go off in the wrong direction without Direction no not necessarily but just um I know when she was here the last time we met and um she was really kind of guiding the conversation and I know I had a lot of questions for her and she was able to kind of guide where she was going with this project you know and so I'm thinking that I will have questions you know we all will and if we're looking at this ourselves you know um without her to kind of navigate you know what what the sheet is and you know where she came up with these numbers and things you know is that going to be a productive um exercise for us or would it be more beneficial to just sit with her and have her say here you go this is what it is is this is how I came to these numbers this is you know this was my methodology um things like that you know just for our conversation I just been bringing yeah it's good point Tony your thoughts ambivalent I very ambivalent this is after I perused with all kinds of time inserted that this this the components of compensation she gave us y yeah and and yeah I don't know I mean my my inclination is to want to get the data in advance knowing knowing full well that some of it will be great to me uh but but other pieces of it will be you know understandable but it's obviously subject to the subsequent meeting with her absolutely yeah we're not going to draw any conclusions from it again there are going to be vagaries that are attached to and we talked about this already job descriptions different treasure collector in town a may have very different different breadth of responsibility either a treasur collector in town b or town C how do you factor that in but the philosophical power which is what I was talking about a couple minutes ago is you know when all is said and done where does Town Administration and new we feel that we should be you knowing full well that that you know there are going to be times that people move from one time to another regardless uh so those are conversations I think were have with Tracy and if if the board feels that it would benefit us to maybe powwow with Tracy in advance of Sandy coming back in we can certainly see if we can effort that have a you know have a quick half hour 45 minute meeting even if it's maybe by Zoom if necessary if people can't get that physically you know that's well L Point that's all doable Lin Point's valid in that that preliminary meeting with her face to face would refine the product she then brings back when she know knows what we want her to focus on and that's I mean that's a valid point you uh if she goes off and does on a tangent what she typically does that might not suit the the unique circumstance of the free Village Township that it's got only 6,300 folks who live here but hasn't that been done initially I'm not sure I'm not sure I don't I haven't seen a list of the things that that were turned over to I don't know if if the nature of Nu is relevant you know we have an employee population of 60 odd folks probably not disimilar to other towns and I mean we have a unique makeup in newy of the the three villages and all the rest sorry to interrup but taking that as an example so for her to sit here and how many tals did she um did she 12 yeah okay so me fairly new to the area for her to do her intro and say okay these are the towns you know these are the populations this is kind of where we fit in you know and just to kind of give me that intro into what am I looking at and you know and so how does my look at the data you know how does what she's saying inform I look at the data and you know versus me going huh okay so what is our population and it'll be in there somewhere you know and I'll be messing around with it but I don't know I just think maybe an intro from her but um that said and I know that this is a public meeting right I didn't think the last time she was here she gave a good intro into the project I agree with that right so okay well back to the matter of hand yep let's let's just do an informal poll on in terms of whether we think it's appropriate for her to give us let's say two weeks from now whatever she has to date which should be I'm guessing 90 95% of what the final you know project the work project might look like do we feel like it's in our best interest to review it in advance to come prepared with you know questions and also with an understanding that we don't know what we don't know yet with some of the stuff so and she says well I'm really not ready yet there's something else I have to do no I don't know she she's given Diane assurances each step of the way that that she'll she'll be done within the freem time frame so I think we have to take on word for that one more Point um oops so if we do our own meeting to kind of review before we get with her then is it going to be redundant to get with her and she is going to then talk about the project and her or you know how she pulled the data and all of that you know instead of us taking twice as much time we're doing our own review we're doing it with Tracy whatever and then with her you know I mean is that just redundant yeah that would be redundant I I was thinking something other than that okay I was thinking that we are not as a board going to meet independent her to discuss this data okay what we're going to do is review the data that she giv if we agree we'll review what she gives us to prepare ourselves for the conversation to jot down questions you may have off of the data and then the only conversation we would have is not about the data but philosophically with Tracy to understand from the town administrator's perspective and it might be a 15minute conversation you know what meet with her and then we meet with Sandy so yeah I wasn't thinking about us reviewing all this data in advance that would be R done it yeah yeah no this is strictly let's get get it into our hands so we can prepare to meet with her yeah and then along the way we'll you know see if we can spend a few minutes with Tracy just to understand her perspective on because we really haven't had a lot of conversation with Tracy about compensation you know she she is as we have been she's been championing this project that it's long overdue but we at least I haven't had had a real substa of conversation with Tracy about where she feels we need to be but then Tracy's going to give an overview of the project you know and then we're going to be hearing it from um I F name Sandy Sandy you know I I don't know I'm I'm drilling down way too deep so so I I did not think that we would meet and discuss preliminary data because there are still things that she's going to want us to provide input on yeah so I felt like we would distribute what she sends us as a draft for us to all look at independ ently for non- discussion purposes non discussion purposes right so we would all independently look at the data sort of get familiar with how the format that it's in and the data that's presented but I think what Mark's talking about is finding out from Tracy in conjunction with what we discuss where do we want to see Newber sit is it at the 50 percentile of this data do we want to be at the 65th or the 75th percentile I think that's what you're saying so that when we take our independent review of the data along with maybe some guidance from Town Administrator where she thinks that we should sit and then we would discuss with Sandy the the things that she still wants input on she's going to want and you'd have to see the data but she has it earmarked where she's done the analysis of all her responses and it comes up with here is the average rate of pay for X job at the 60 at the 50th percentile it would be this at the 65th at the 75th it would be this and I think she's trying to say okay this is all going to be in sort of draft format tell me where you want to see the town sit and then I think her idea was that she'd finalize everything and provide us with the report I think there are still things that she is looking to present and have input on before she actually comes up with the final product if you will um I think that's more or less what I would that I've heard what you're were saying yeah and who's going to provide all of those elements yourself and Tracy your office no I'm thinking it's some guidance from a conversation with Tracy but then also where we think with that information from Tracy where we where we think we should be sitting as a town otherwise Mak sense it does but she's our consult yeah right on this um our consultant and I I don't know um I'm just thinking that she's the one that's been digging into the data and massaging it and everything else you know so for us to do all this pre-work and then get with her it's it's not pre-work I think it's just here's the data that we're going to be discussing familiarize yourself with it so that when we have the discussion when she comes in on the 24th I make some sense yeah we'll make some sense we'll start to know what she's talking about I don't think there's a lot of pre-work well are you looking for her are you review of the data yeah are you looking for her to say to us where we should be sitting as no oh okay no but she may have her own thoughts on that she may have her thoughts on that but yeah based on the data yeah and she is going to kind of recommend I mean that's what you hire a consultant for right and granted we hired her to just pull all the data but um again I apologize but if I get the data you know we're all going to be looking at it with eagle eyes right I I'm looking for at her to kind of you know talk to us about what this data is where' you get it what's it look like to her as the expert right and um you know and then we can um I don't know I I think it would be good to get the data beforehand but I don't know how much I want to dig into it without her um you know without her conv yeah no I think that's what I think that's what we're saying yeah each each each each person individually has an opportunity to review it and for those who may want to you know study it and those who may want to you know do a flyby that's perfectly fine perfectly fine I just just intuitively I I just I've always felt like if there data available you know I know for well not not to make too many assumptions off the data but if there data available I've always been one to believe that I'd rather have it than not have it and and to be able to go into the conversation with well-formed thoughts and questions that's all yeah some homework before you asked to comment see he said homework too I mean I've seen the DAT I've seen I saw the the data from a couple of weeks ago and then I briefly saw what she sent today yeah and I think it does give an opportunity to start thinking about what we what we want her to we're not I don't I don't mean homework but what we want to have a dialogue about and understand it's just it starts I mean I've looked at it and I'm like what does this mean and what does that mean and was this the actuals or was this so that we can start to prep our questions I don't think it's not a a um they want to call it a a session with with uh learning the proper vocabulary that she's she uses or the Wii U you know Etc she's she's the expert soal isn't she yeah all these but you so but you're not suggesting that we just get the date of that day and have her walk us through it through it is that what you're recommending I'd be okay with that okay I mean how much how much um time and effort do we want to put in before the expert presents the data to us you know we'll be sitting there looking at it as she's up there speaking you know but then we can say she can say okay you see on line 32 here we've got such and such you know oh yeah okay that's good good to know you know and then what about this oh yep okay you so you you would ra so you don't want to see it in advance you want her to walk you through it um it would be okay to see it in advance I don't know how much time I would spend on it okay because I expect that when she is in the room she's going to be guiding what I'm looking at okay Woman's Worth I I had D sent me the the the first iteration of it it's two pages it's a spreadsheet with all the all the positions and how each Town pays each of the positions and then there's there's a second page of very rudimentary an analysis that I mean and I don't know wh kid with this stuff but I sat there for about a half an hour looking for it he said okay I see what we got here so there was there wasn't a lot you you've read an abstract of what she's going to address us on yeah I mean that's if it's only two pages and it that was the salary survey understood yeah with at the end a statist statistical analysis of percentiles matched against the average was basically an Excel spreadsheet that was the preliminary here's where I'm at with my salary my data my data Gathering process when I talked to her two weeks ago she said I would expect that by your meeting in January on the 27th I potentially would have all of this other information which she shot to me like right before the meeting it was not because she was expecting that I was going to distribute it she said I think I should have it by then and then I just asked if she was still on track for a February 24th meeting with her final sort of work product for discussion which is still draft format and she said yes she would be on target for that date well look I my recommendation would be that when gets the rest of the data that she's got that she's going to have available for us in the next two weeks we distributed to the board and take as as little or as much time as individuals feel is is required at that point and then come from in with questions and open ears thoughts that's what I think just so you're familiar with sheet a sheet B you know yeah that's what I and then what about a meeting with Tracy I'd like to effort that you know I haven't talked to Tracy about it I think that she's out for a few days but um let me reach out to her would you folks like to have a you know a 15 to 30 minute comment I I don't think it's it's going to be a lot of heavy lifting so my thought is that we have we get the data then we have a meeting short meeting with Tracy and Tracy kind of outlines her expectations of what to do with the data and then we still haven't heard from the expert at that point as to you know what the data looks like what you know we you know to give us a guide there so I don't know I'm I'm digging in way too deep and you know I'm thinking how I've done it how it's been done you know in large organizations that I've worked in and it seems to me that I recall that you know we have meetings you know and that's when the information comes out somebody is facilitating the meeting and talking about methodology and numbers and you know all of that so um but whatever you know so maybe we just confirm that Tracy would be in attendance at that meeting in VOR is it fair you're better informed in some of those Elemental meetings than we are and what's coming from Sandy sure well and so it's it's kind of a learning curve uh you know most quality papers easy reads are part of hard writing and the presentation we got before is was not hard writing it was not an easy presentation not an easy uh easy listening rather and and I so I would love at least an abstract uh rather than a mountain of detail a quality abstract as to where she's going in the presentation that brings us a little bit up to speed and uh to take your your nomenclature reference the idea that she perhaps is speaking a different language and and your experience level in community larger Community circumstances uh sort of dwarf's mind I've been a small unit adviser for an entire career listening to an awful lot of grand presentation uh but being an expert with two master's degrees in the language I have no education in the language of City management other than the human resources aspect of it and this is a broad con compensation study and it's going to require that we uh well another thought would be I'm sorry John no I mean that's done I'm just looking for a little bit more um qualification to hear the presentation if that makes sense to you sure yeah I can reach out to Tracy let her know about this conversation and ask if she would you know in Le of meeting if if folks aren't you know feeling like that's a necessity have her sent to this board you know a couple paragraphs on her thoughts about you know what what her expectations are and you know she's been at this job for a long time she's been in a similar role in another organization I'm sure she has thoughts about where she would like to see Newbery sit Visa the you know other times in what is what is the wisdom of being a 50% or being at 75% or whatever it might be see again that the philosophical piece one thought on that if we get that from Tracy before we get the presentation from Sandy Y is that going to sway our interpretation of all the data I would say yes to be prejudicial yeah y y Tracy wants it to be 50 percentile okay that's what I'm looking at yeah that's what I'm looking for more qualification the idea of of of how do you build a Township that that is beautifully position to hire and retain quality people because it is the people of the village that make it what it is and we're lucky we've got a terrific cadr of employees and the element is how do you keep them and and and that element comes with u trying to remain competitive within your your your local radius Villages every village bring its own level of uh I sat next to people at a meeting last evening u in the historic district stuff in the lower green and the question I asked is where where where were you living before you came to Newbury subb Wakefield the there was a village of a toasting of of West Boston West subur and and U and they just they wanted out and they and so how do you get young families that want to work in the township whether it be the first employment or the second person's employment in this Village um see what you get you get the you know Dian dos and the chrisen grubs and and and those that K kinship of folk and and in a town cler to die for you know the people that really make this town easy to live in I have a lot of respect for Tracy in her current job and previously she was in a CFO role right for West newy you know so she's a numbers girl right and I have a lot of respect for that but I know that if she gives us her input you know that is going to um sway my interpretation of the data which you know be that yeah it's great that's a great point you want a fresh look yeah well that's we don't have to have that conversation with crazy in advance yeah that's a possibility ie idea okay and right on the money with that one fine well she's obviously she's going to come with not only here about the doll you put her own you know her own philosophical EV on what she would like to see and then you know okay fa okay fa so the summary is that when I get the data I will distribute it for review non- discussion purposes they Define non discussion purposes amongst board members other words I can't speak with you to get your you're and I can't speak with ly or Tony well technically speaking two board members can talk to each other okay but but but I I don't want to get anywhere close to that threshold for years this board has been very good about yeah ensuring that we never come anywhere close to crossing the line of of open meeting open to make it so which is why I always say to you folks you know whenever we're Distributing anything in advance please no discussion y you know now can can two people quietly have yes you can but but legally can I think you know in in my in my view I would like to hold that to a Bare Bones minimum because I stay away from yeah I also think to Lynn's Point let's all look at it independent we're probably going to all come up with different questions different good ide and they'll come out in the meeting with Tracy so I'll distribute the information when it comes in okay I'll confirm with Tracy that she will be in attendance right my understanding is Sandy has committed to the 24th date and we go for good and that date is one more time February 24th is the next meeting be four days away from my birthday speaking of that next meeting um oh no that's fine I'm out of town uh and you're out of town I'm out of town uh but I I do not want to move this meeting because Tracy has it on her calendar Okay sandy has it on her calendar what how long are you going to be out of town for I'm going to be out of town for a week and I want you to be here well I'd like to be here but I I don't think it's appropriate for me to ask you know because we have outside folks schedule for this meeting why can't we push Sandy and Tracy one week well I'm I'm sure we might but I'm I'm hesitant to I'm comfortable with that Mark I would really appreciate you your attendance in this meeting yeah you you are the captain of the ship well March 3rd yeah 17th of February is President's Day so we're not going to do it then right so or we could I mean all right so let's do this let's I'm going to recommend we we leave the 24th in place for now right just leave it as a as a placeholder I will uh do you want to speak to Sandy I'm sure Sandy yeah well we don't know what her calend looks like you know so um and Tracy I don't know what what her C looks like so I so potentially March 3rd to see if they available Yeah March March 3rd is that a date that works I apologize don't enjoy whatever you're doing it's I hope it's warm so check with both of them to see if they're available yeah yeah we we had some scheduling issues on our end so just so happens that there was the week that was available and I was not thinking ahead when I took the trip so I'm I apologize okay yeah so I will see I will see if they both available so let's let's let's um for both dates let's leave the the 20 uh the 24th of February in place and also pencil in Monday March 3rd we want to make sure the room's available you know there's a there's a bunch of Y some bu I'll do that tomorrow I'll do that person tomorrow thank you um if we're looking to move for different days um we're I'm out of town the week of February 9th and then the 17th is a holiday right yep presidents yeah that's why I went one week after yep okay so uh hopefully March 3D if for some reason that's that becomes problematic for Sandy and or Tracy then we can go to March 10th or we could do a different day of the week I was going to say we could always choose a different we do a Wednesday we could you know let me see if that works okay thank you thank you all I appreciate that okay uh any other business new business other topics good hearing none is there a motion to adjourn I'll make the motion to adjourn second second any discussion all in favor to jman I we have ajour