Let me call the meeting to order. This is the uh the Newbury HR board subcommittee classification for a new position. Uh here in the meeting today are >> Diane Doyle, >> Mark Lechman, >> Anthony Antico, >> Lynn Pe,
>> Patty Fischer. >> Thank you all. Joining us today is the hiring manager for this position, Chief Evans of the Fire Department. Uh, Chief, why don't we uh just take a moment and ask you to give us uh the two-minute tour of uh you know, what you're hoping
to accomplish with this position. You don't need to get into tremendous depth. We'll get into that as we moving along, but what's what's the thought process behind the position? So the thought process behind this position is the uh the administrative
piece is a is a is a huge piece for me. Um when it comes to this I've actually put in for this position uh in a different fashion um the last two years for a full-time deputy. Um call it what you will. Um fire department I mean fire chief, deputy chief, deputy chief of
operations, deputy chief of logistics and administration. And I and I know it's not it's not in the cards for the for the foreseeable future. Um so we kind of rethought this position um with my conversation with u my current mother
uh Wall-E um about how we continue in the administrative piece. Um that position, this position here has uh some extra pieces for EMS and for uh some other extra, you know, admin pieces for me. Um, I've had numerous conversations
with u with Tracy Blae regarding uh the you know the position where in in its current state as a call fire chief I mean deputy chief um and we're trying to uh recreate but create a new position um for the administrative piece and the EMS piece that would assist not just me but
it would continue the the leadership piece for me. So >> great. Thank you for that. >> You're welcome. Before we get into the factors, let me open up to the board for any preliminary questions you might have or >> So is this in addition to or in lie of the current deputy chief position? >> It's it's an it's actually the other
chief is is the other deputy is the fire piece for me. Okay. >> So it would be a different position. >> Okay. So are is that job description does that job description have elements of this in it or No, >> it does not.
>> Okay, perfect. Could you um explain uh briefly what the other deputy position is? The fire one. >> Correct. >> Fire operations uh hazmat. It it it basically runs the gamut on the fire side. The operations, the incident
command on on anything from a fire uh to hazmat situation. Uh that type of thing. Uh training my fire officers, that type of thing as well. trainings, um, day-to-day stuff, uh, supervision of all the other officers as well. So,
>> um, is that does that position supervise? >> It does. >> Employees, how many employees? >> Uh, we have, uh, 52 right now, counting myself and, um, well, 52. >> Okay. >> So, 49, correct?
>> This position will also supervise staff. >> Correct. It would it would it would still continue the supervision for all my EMS side of it. Um so anything he is still a licensed or certified EMT basic with us. Y >> so he would still have a supervisory
role um with the captain's lieutenants and the EMS coordinator and assistant coordinator. >> Okay. When you say he is there >> or whoever whoever correct whoever. Correct. >> Okay. How many um staff would that be that this position might supervise?
Well, technically they're all EMS driven. They're all EMS uh first responders, EMT basics, EMTAs, and paramedics. So >> So 52 or 49? >> 49. 49. >> Okay. So you're going to have And I don't know if I'm speaking out of turn. I'm just kind of trying to >> Yeah.
>> No. No. Perfect. Yep. >> So you're going to have two deputies >> supervising the same group doing different functions. >> And as as of right now, no. No. In the past, they used to have two decades. >> Yep.
>> Did away with one a long time ago. Um that was one of the reasons why I I've been having these conversations with Tracy the last few years asking why those two weren't there anymore. >> Y >> um so understand that, you know, it is a budget situation. So there is there's
only one right now. Uh and that position is currently going unfilled. The fire side of it is going is currently going unfilled. Um, we recently promoted two captains, one full-time and one call to try to help alleviate that side of the of the house right now um to to move
into the future. But honestly, in the in the near future, hopefully in the next two years or so, um I'd be back in front of you for uh that deputy fire chief position as well. >> Okay. What position did you what positions did you promote those two
captains into? >> They were they were one was a lieutenant and one was a a lieutenant in a prior life. So they came up from lieutenants positions to the captains. >> Okay. >> In house. >> Okay.
>> It might be helpful if I just interject a little bit. So the way that the fire and correct me if I'm wrong cuz I just want to make sure. So the way the fire department works currently is we have a fire chief. >> We have we had six full-time firefighters.
>> Which were considered firefighter EMT um >> paramedics. paramedics. >> Y >> um and then we have what's known as call firemen. Within that group of call firemen and six full-time firefighters,
they are designated as a lieutenant or a captain >> or a deputy. Those are not active job descriptions. Those those designations as lieutenant uh >> what captain and deputy. they are
designated within the fire company, if you will, as having a a a rank, a rank. It's a ranking. It's not a job description. So, we don't currently have this job description on either the logistics side or the fire side. So,
that's why this is considered a new position. Um, >> I've learned a lot over the last few weeks about the positions that were created or not created in this department over the last 10 years. So, >> and what and just one step further, those designations as lieutenant,
captain, deputy, they're receiving a stipened for those extra responsibilities um as pay, but they're not job descriptions because they're more of a ranking. So when he says the job description for deputy fire or deputy logistics there there is no job
description currently because those are considered >> correct >> until now until now and that's why this is considered a new position. Okay. So, Wally doesn't have a job description before the town. He's under the company. Correct. >> Okay. That's helpful. >> Does that make sense, Lind? Is that Is that more helpful?
>> We do not have an org chart, right, for that for this department. >> Um, at some point that would be helpful. >> There is an org chart on record with the town report. It I send one in every year. So, there is an org chart right now that that >> we just don't have access to it here, but I can get you one though.
Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So when he says there's two deputies, those are um rankings, not job descriptions. >> Okay. >> Is that helpful? >> Sure. >> I mean, this is what I do all day every detail.
>> I know. I love that. That's good. >> That's why this is considered a new position. Okay. >> Because it's transitioning from a ranking to a to a job description. >> Okay. >> Okay. Any other preliminary stuff before we dig in? Um, so I see that this is 19 hours.
>> Yep. >> Okay. And I don't I forget is that going to be addressed in the in our questions. Um, and there's it's going to be supporting 49 or 52 employees. >> Okay. Um, this is non-exempt.
So overtime over 19 hours or time over 40. >> It would still be the whatever the state ruling is. Yeah. It's 40 hours. see the 35 or 40 depending on the nature of the depend >> but since it's you know there has 19 he is eligible to come back for EMS calls
with his EMT so he can actually come back if he's at the house and he hears a a medical call um he can come back for that call as an EMT basis >> and is it fair to say that that's typically when his or her when this individual's supervisory
responsibilities on the EMS side would kick in >> yes >> on a call basis not on the administrative side? >> No, not not so much. It would be when it comes to that, it would be on a call basis. He'd be out on a he'd be in, you know, he'd go in the ambulance to a medical call. >> He would take command of that call if he
was there. >> And that's where the 49 to 50 call firefighters come into play. So, he would be acting as >> he would be an active call firefighter. >> No, he >> uh EMT I'm sorry, not firefighter. Wrong. EMS EMT. >> Would he get paid for that? >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> Okay. So combined, would he maybe have more than 40 hours in a week? >> Possibly. >> Possibly. >> Okay. Would he then go into overtime then? >> He could. Possibly. Yeah. >> Those those hours would be combined. >> Correct. Yes. Correct. >> But he would not be scheduled for more than 19 hours. >> Correct. Correct.
>> We we would typically get to that during the meat of the conversation. But while we're there, let me just make sure I understand one one piece of it. Uh, one of the things we we're always careful of, chief, uh, and this relates to any position we're operating, >> uh, on the supervisory side, is, you
know, we always talk about >> trying to factor in what we would call oneoffs or in this case the occasional need for this individual to be supervising during an EMS call. So I I know we can't predict with any degree of
certainty, but if you look at the typical monthly activity, how many times in the course of a month might this individual be called to supervise EMS activity, you know, in the field?
>> Um to be totally honest with you, it it varies monthto monthth. Of course >> it does. If you think about >> we our EMS calls are about 68 70% of our overall call volume >> yearly annually >> right >> um there are months where we have 80 calls there are months where we have 150
calls there are months where we have 60 calls >> and if you you know you do the math he might he might have an opportunity to come back at you know 30 times a month or something like that depending on the number of calls we have >> right you know >> okay >> and I'll be honest with you certain you
know there are things that u it's a weird weird job. If you've never done it, it's it's a weird job. There are some things that people really enjoy doing. There are other things that people are like, "Oh my goodness, that's a that's a cardiac arrest. I don't know if I want to do that cardiac arrest,
>> you know, or that's a three-year-old, that's a drowning vict, you know, I don't know if I can do that again." So, they it's not that they pick and choose, but that's the reason they're an on call person. >> Got it. >> Thank you. >> I have one last question. So, will taking this out from the company
>> and putting it into the town remove the stipen for the company? >> I believe so. But that's a conversation I would have with you and and Tracy. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's a good question. >> Yeah, that's a Tracy comment. >> That was my thought is I'm thinking if they're still getting the stipen >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> then this job description should not include anything that they could get paid for under the stipen. And that stipen that is in there currently, chief, is for the deputy fire chief. The fire side of it, the way it's written. >> Okay. >> If if I remember correctly and I look at
my stipens, that was specifically for the fire chief. But to me, if he's getting paid out of a different line item or for a different category to respond to medical calls, >> is is that included in this? Why would that be included in this hourly rate for
that supervision? I guess is my qu like I look at it like >> he was getting an hourly rate for showing up for those calls. >> Oh, okay. >> Right. Too. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Or whoever it would be. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, whoever. >> And this is 19 hours per week?
>> Yes. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you. >> Good. Thank you. Thank you all. Okay. >> Um, >> Chief Evans, what we do typically is we we go to a factor. We read through it quickly. We don't have to read, you
know, every word. Everyone understands what what the different >> You tell me where I'm going with this. news factor and then you know any any member of the board can can ask questions about about that particular factor and you know there are times that
we can be very exacting with this. There are times that we you know we we among the board we kind of negotiate out what we think it should land on is is this one a three is this one a four. Um, one last thing I'll mention is that uh, you
know, we do have a history uh, using the old system of when required kind of splitting things in half. It's not a three, it's not a four, it's a three and a half. My recommendation would be since this is our first test run of this, we stay away from any of
that kind of stuff. in order to ever get I don't think under this you can >> because it's a little bit different in the like >> and I don't the f the degree where it says degree it should just say 1 2 3 4 5 6 the degree I don't know why that's in there but it's a little bit different in
the way the points are so are awarded so there's no room for splitting the difference >> okay let's dig in >> so that means unity um the first factor is physical envirment environment
takes into consideration the totality of the surroundings and the circumstances under which the job must be performed. Degrees of difficulty. Uh things of exceptional nature, things that might hinder the employees ability to perform. Uh first degree is a very typical office
and climate control working conditions. Second, good working conditions, but periodically subject to air temperature fluctuations, odors, so forth and so on. Uh you can read through. I don't think you have to read them all, but um and it goes all the way up to the fifth degree,
which is involves high risks with exposure to potentially hazardous or dangerous conditions uh on a pretty regular basis on you know with frequent intervals um thoughts.
So, I think this is where my question about are we looking at EMS response here or are we looking at the office job that's written in the job description here? >> Because they're two very different answers as far as I look at >> and I and I agree with the chief because
it's it's two se if he's sitting in the office with me and we're doing and we're going through procurement or we're going through uh ordering EMS supply or whatever, it's a little different than being in the back of the the ambulance with a patient. And that's why that's why we ask about the
>> the frequency with which this individual might be, >> you know, at a fire scene at a at god forbid at a at a car accident uh you know, at a home uh in all hours of the day and all in all types of weather. So I I looked at this as sort of a trying
to combine the two elements of it. You know, the fact that the dayto-day is administrative in the office, >> but that there are frequency of those calls. I I thought it might be a third. >> He actually came in this well this position. Wally came in this morning and he was he was you know we were having
some conversations about some of the things that we've been working on. We had our ambulance inspections this past week >> and there was a medical we had a we had a a driver in a oil truck that went off the road and it was on its side you know so he comes along with me to be you know to is there a patient type of thing. The
patient was fine. He got to go back and sit in the truck you know in the in the squad. So he didn't have to do anything. But this job description doesn't read to that. >> I think is my struggle. >> I hear what you said. >> Like what he does right now. >> Yep.
>> Is a different answer than what's written before us, I guess, is where I'm mentally struggling because this >> the paper in front of us reads as though it's like I think of like Sally, right? Like my administrative assistant. This reads as though administr an administrative
job description opposed to a response job description. >> So to answer some of that, chief, the there are times as I'm sure you are as a police chief. There are there are calls that you go on that you're going to go out and you're going to evaluate a specific EM police officer because of the nature of the call and it's not out
of the realm of possibility that this position we might be in the office. There's a medical. He comes with me to the medical and he's going to be evaluating those EMTs as a >> evaluating evaluating but I guess where is that written in the paperwork before us
>> and you can make notes on the job description and we can amend them. >> We can we can amend them because like I'm saying I just don't see I know >> I get what they do >> but that's why I was wondering is this a complete separation? Yeah, I from I
interpreted a couple of the line items of the job description in that in that fashion. Chief, you know, assist the fire chief in managing the overall operations. That might include, as it says, EMS operations on scene. And further down, I think the fourth bullet
from the from the bottom, supervise and evaluate the performance of subordinate staff. Again, I took that to mean both in terms of, you know, performance reviews and also >> Okay. >> You know, overseeing the performance on scene. >> Okay. >> Uh, we can change the verbiage if that's
what you >> Yeah, cuz I read that is, you know, I read both of those are of in the building things, not out of the building things. If we're looking for some play with the job description that, but as long as that's what you're referring to, it could be supervised on scene as well
as administrative. Okay. >> Yep. um thoughts about a three or anyone have different thinking on it? >> Three sounds uh reasonable to me. >> The the reason I didn't go to four is that in the last the last line in four
work involves exposure to severe adverse elements on a continuing and prolonged basis. So it doesn't rise to a four >> agree but I thought there might be enough there to consider it a three. >> I think yeah I think it's a three. >> Agreed. >> Let's vote on that. So administrative
positions are interesting, you know, like so say you were working in a hospital and you were an ad in an administrative position and all of a sudden a patient walks by and collapses, you know, what are you going to do? Right. Are you going to just >> you should just call, right? Right. But
EMS, you know, are they going to step back and say this isn't mine? >> So I agree with the number three. >> Good. Thank you. >> Uh so let's quickly take a vote on each one. Uh three. >> Yes. I was also just going to say it's it's it's an administrative position, but it's also within the fire
department. So, the build the building itself, you know, is not an a typical office. I know. I don't know what that is. >> I hope it's not a hornet or a >> I know. Is anybody allergic? >> I am. >> I just can't. >> Are you happy pen with you? >> Oh, that's a bee.
>> Yeah, >> that's a hornet. >> That's a hornet. >> Yeah. >> See, I called it. All right. >> Yeah, I'm the allergic one. Anybody get a cup and we can just >> I have I have to if I get stung then's >> we need to call 911 right now.
>> I will walk slowly. I have EP in the car. Okay. >> I will walk slowly to the back step of my car and I will open up the back of the rear. >> So they're in the back corner chief on the right the top drawer. >> You have multiples? >> Yes. Yes. >> Oh, it's right there. >> I have two in the truck and I have my own
>> truck. I'll stand on the chair. I know it's January, right? >> Don't you dare. Get away. >> No, that's not a bee. >> Is it a hornet, though? >> No, that's one of those weird stink bugs. It's a weird thin ones. I just showed
>> Sorry. This look like the calamity board. >> Sorry. This is the first for the HR board. >> Yeah. >> Okay. We have >> So, we're voting We're voting on this first one. Three. Three. >> Yes. Three. Three. >> Physical vitamin. Three. Basic
knowledge, training, and education. So, this is one where we're not talking about a formal college education, but we're talking about certainly the uh the discipline specific equivalents in terms of CS and you you've listed a number of CRs here, Chief, that that would be
required. Um, I started my thinking at a four. Intensive knowledge of a specialized field. Certainly knowledge of major municipal functions and activities. Yes. The equivalent of a
college or university education in terms of the trades and the crafts. >> Other thoughts, different opinions? I felt that three didn't quite rise to the level of what the chief is looking for here in terms of um you know
certification slashed education. >> No. >> Do we have high school diploma in >> Oh, we talked about that. >> We did. We talked about that >> when just now when I was >> No. No. No. in when I was creating terms
>> when I was creating this. Yep. >> Yeah. This this felt like more than just a high school diploma and one to two years of advanced training. This requires a lot more than that. >> But we don't have that in the job description, right? Am I missing it? >> Well, we have
>> fire officer training, >> but you could have a high school diploma and still get those, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. But in in here, we're looking for a high school diploma or equivalent, you know? I mean to even put that in here because what if somebody comes in and
they graduate they came out of eighth grade you know I mean we need I don't we need to have something in the job description >> what does four say I don't have page five what does four say does it say high school >> equivalent says equivalent to college university education
>> so number two says equivalent to high school education you know so at least that >> three says high school plus a couple of broad trainings equal to one or two years of Yeah, >> three. >> Oh, that's the last sentence. Three. >> Yeah, >> but this also requires certifications above and beyond I think what three
would require. >> So, do we add under education high school diploma required? >> We talked about that. >> Or equivalent high school >> or equivalent because it some get a GED, they get the equivalent >> because um to Patty's point, you can get these extra trainings
>> without a high school diploma, right? Or without a college degree, associates or anything, right? I believe so. >> Yeah. >> Is that correct? Correct. Chief, >> uh, >> someone doesn't absolutely have to have a high school diploma in order to get the CERS that you're looking for. >> They they cannot be uh an in EMS or fire
without a high school diploma. >> They should add that to the job description. >> Yeah. Okay. They have to have that in the in the job. >> They have to have what? >> High school diploma. >> Minimum of a high school diploma. >> GED. >> All right. So, we'll put it back into the job description. Okay. Thank you. >> Yep. And
>> so, what would that be then? three or two. >> The question is how much weight do you want to give the additional searchs that are required, >> right? >> Is it a four though? Cuz wait, but
>> three is plus additional broad specialized training. >> Doesn't doesn't guarantee anything, but you can. >> So, they're looking for a college or university education or master ability in trades or crafts >> or the equivalent of >> for number four. >> Yep. equivalent. Yeah. And I thought
that the surfs would be the would be the equivalent of master ability in trades or crafts. >> Okay. >> I don't know. That's >> one or two years of advanced training or college. I because I thought that was >> associates.
So you're looking at number five or number four. >> If you look at number three because I think each one is inclusive of kind of the one before is how I think of it. >> You say, right? So like equivalent to high school plus additional broad specialized training equal to one or two years of advanced college training. So
an associates degree >> I guess just because I don't know would the fire the optional fire officer training per you or the EMT be equivalent to an associates degree? >> Most of it is you have to take the equivalent of there's three of them that you have to take that
>> is the equivalent of. >> Okay. But would it be higher? Cuz number four is higher than the equivalent of two years, right? >> It just says equivalent to college. >> My page is missing because I was making >> number four says equivalent to college or university education or master
ability >> trades or crafts, right? And that's what we're saying that these special certifications would be the equivalent in >> to a bachelor's degree or or equivalent to college or university. Does that not mean bachelor's? could be associates.
>> Okay. >> And that's that's the way I read it, but it could be >> could be both. >> Okay. >> Um, so the next one, five says equivalent to one to two years work in a graduate school at a master's level. So that one is even more, >> you know. Yeah. I mean, so I would say
that's the bachelor's and then fourth is, >> you know. >> Yeah. >> Well, that's why I was thinking this three is associates, four is bachelors, five is >> Yeah, I want to go back. I think that's a good way to look at it. >> That's how I interpreted those.
>> It's this last sentence in three that makes me like lean towards a three. But then if you if you really look at some of the basic things that they're talking about, it's not as specialized as intensive. >> That's what got me to a four. >> That's it's between the last sentence in three and the first sentence in four
that has me kind of toggling between the two. >> I was going to say I think we could clearly toggle between one or the other here. I I like number three equivalent to high school plus additional broad specialized training equal to one or two years of advanced training or college.
>> This is equivalent to college or university education or master's ability. So that throws it really I think it's more of a three than it is. >> Yeah, three does three here. >> Three does say that. >> Any concerns about a three? >> Nope. >> No. >> Let's vote on it. >> Okay. Three.
>> Three. >> Three. >> Three. >> Okay. Three. Thank you. We may want to are we able to specify with these to actually make them articulate associates, bachelors, and >> we that's a question for Sandy. >> Okay. >> Um what do you mean in the job
description or in the interview process? >> No, in the um in the written review for the sake of clarity. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Where this is our first time like actually working this. >> Okay. So, say somebody interviews and
they have a high school diploma. They do not have these, but they're very interested in getting some of these additional education and or certifications. Do we allow them to come in? Do we allow them to come in and within six months start a program? >> I think you could write that in. Yep.
>> Okay. >> You know, into the after the interview and say this is a great based on all the other pieces of the of the puzzle, you you could write that into their probation right now and you could say within a year you have to get A, B, C, and D. >> Okay? So, say we all win the lottery.
Yeah. And we have a whole new cast of characters in here. Um, can we memorialize that somewhere? >> Sure. >> Well, I think at the discretion of the fire chief under the firefighter one suggests that, right? So that's you
could either have it so fire officer training example one two three >> fire chief um credentiing at the discretion of the fire tree. That puts it in his discretion whether or not they at a minimum. >> Correct. you know, if they don't have any MTB. So, that should should
>> But I also like the last the last sentence in the three where it says specialized training equal to. >> We're talking about on the job description. >> Oh, sorry. I'm going back to the to that number one. All right. So, >> she's saying what she just asked you was could you hire someone that doesn't have these and they would obtain those within
a certain amount. We could. >> So, should it say EM emergency medical technician? Should that also say at the discretion of the fire chief? No. or within within 12 months upon high successful completion of >> I don't think that should be discretion. >> No, I wouldn't I would agree with you on
that one. >> So within 12 months would that be reasonable? >> Y >> how long is an EMTB course? >> Um most of them are there are hybrids that are five weeks. Um there are some that are semester long that Northern Essics and Northshore puts on.
>> Yep. You can pay one of the private companies. Like I said, for a hybrid that's five weeks that are 15 weeks a week, but it's all about how much money you want to pay. It's about $15,400 for an EMT basic right now. >> Okay. >> Yep. So, >> do we have educational assistance? >> Well, they have $500. Well, the
full-time have $500 for education in the in the contract. The call people in the PDMs. No. >> We usually hire them with that piece. >> Okay. My thought is you would want somebody who came into this job with that though already because they're they're supervising EMT. >> That's why it's at a minimum. Right. Right.
>> So I would think that one would be required upon hiring. >> Yep. >> But what if you had a really strong candidate? >> How do you know they're going to be strong at supervising? >> Well, looking at their resume, you know, maybe they've had a great strong resume, you know, have interest in the EMTB,
um, but don't have it yet. I you know how limited is our pool of candidates going to be if we're requiring an EMTB >> um >> for that position as an EMS person. I think they would have it. I'd be honest with you. I think they
>> you'd have to understand the lingo. You'd have to understand what they're doing, how they're doing. >> Yeah, >> I think that one I think that one's a mustave upon hiring. >> That's why I wrote at a minimum that one have this position has to have it because they'll be part of it. >> Okay. I'm not hiring a sergeant who's
never done patrol before. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? Like, so, >> okay. >> That's how I look at the supervision piece of EMT. I'm not hiring somebody to supervise EMTs who's never done this before. >> Yeah. You know, that gets you in trouble. >> Yeah.
>> All right. So, let's let's get back in the beam here. So, we rated that as a three. >> Right. And now we're on to problem solving skills and effort. Marsh keeping >> measuring the type and range of problem solving which the position consistently requires. Consider the analysis, the
evaluative creativity and reasoning skills required, the ability to make conclusions and the body of knowledge required. I think we can skip right to at least the middle here given the nature of the role unless
anyone feels differently. Uh, a four is requiring strong understanding of and the ability to successfully apply complex concepts from a body of knowledge or specific discipline. Applications must be explained and
clearly communicated to others. Routinely requires that work be organized, methodologies adapted to various circumstances and associated tasks be efficiently and effectively accomplished. A five requires advanced training,
experience, and understanding of this complex body of knowledge. Independently evaluate new information, synthesize this information, evaluate alternatives, apply and direct the successful application of varied resources. So
chief other than the one-offs which you know you have to make decisions in the moment uh depending on you know all the factors all the circumstances is the majority of this job on the administrative side are
things in place you know how frequently if at all is this individual responsible for you know setting new standards creating new efficiencies um you know as opposed to following >> this position would be
>> protocols >> this position well this position would be um taking the new protocols from let's say OEMS the office of emergency medical understanding and then actually you know be part of the training team for that for the new protocols that come up and
those are usually once or twice a year >> so you have to be able to understand what they are interpret that's where the lingo comes in and understanding the verbiage and things like that >> and then being able to present that in the you in a the correct way manner for all of your people that are there. >> Okay. >> So, that's that is a part of it. That is
a part of it. But a lot of this is, you know, day-to-day stuff, too. >> Standard stuff. >> Yeah. Standard stuff. >> So, it's like kind of a hybrid in that respect. >> Okay. Thoughts? >> Five. >> You're thinking it's a five. Is that what you think?
Um, you know, I like what um what you just said about um new information coming out and being able to assimilate that and communicate it and train and teach and all of that. Um you know, if you're not really familiar and have that
kind of level of aptitude, uh you know, um intellect, I guess, um you know, it's not going to be received well by the 52 employees, >> correct, >> on the team, right? So you really I would think that you really need to know your stuff.
>> Thank you. Other thoughts, questions >> with the payroll policy, procurement, that sort of stuff. Is that an aid in assist to you or independently working as a
>> to me? >> Yeah, I'm leaning more towards a four. >> Yeah. um because I believe that some of the advanced training and um evaluating new information, events or circumstances, synthesizing with alternative outcomes,
I would think would rise more to the level of the chief in terms of operations of the overall department. Mhm. >> Um, routinely requires that work be organized, methodologies adapted to various circumstances, requires good interpersonal skills efficiently
um, in accomplishing work frequently meaning I'm leaning more towards a poor because I think some of the extended problem solving skills are really more geared towards bringing that to the level of the chief. >> I can support that.
>> Yeah. >> I had it I had it right in the middle between a four and a five. We don't do that anymore. >> I know. I know. >> We loved those halves, Mom. >> That was my advanced thought on >> things like directing and evaluating and
that to me is more of a a supervisory, whereas assist, which is what Patton just brought up, I think is more of a four. >> I will take it. >> Okay. >> Other thoughts? No. Let's vote on it. >> Four. >> Four. >> Four. >> Four. >> Four. >> Four. It is
number four. physical skills and effort. And this again is one of those circumstances where we have to consider the uh the totality of the role and the frequency with which certain things might happen whether it's supervising
staff or in this case you know physical activity manual a so forth and so on. Uh when you read the factor, it talks about this factor measuring the degree of physical effort or exertion required in the performance of essential work functions under regular conditions which
would to me suggest you know uh normal day-to-day conditions which the chief has already said is not necessarily the case because a lot of it is administrative. So >> you know I had it somewhere between a two and a three. >> Pick one.
>> Well just one one person's opinion. I might want to hear that. >> So, what about when they are out, you know, in an active event, you know, they and and this person can be an EMS, right? Responder. >> Yep.
>> So, and I I would think that those EMS folks are pretty um you know, have stamina, >> right? >> There is I'm sorry. >> Go ahead. There are I agree with you there are you know 80% of this is going
to be administrative piece that other 20% he could be out there right >> assisting with a patient >> putting him in the stage chair chief >> is it fair to say on scene or we'll say a scene where fire police and or EMS are all involved
>> the physical exertion of all is it is it fair to suggest that the fire side firefighting side of this would require more the heavier packs and so forth as opposed to the EMS. I know there's equipment to be carried. >> There's equipment to be carried. You know, patients, you have to be able to lift, you know, a certain amount of, you
know, weight when it comes to your patients. But with two of us, you don't do it alone. You're not supposed to. >> Um, but yeah, most of the heavy lifting, pardon the pun, is on the fire side. >> On the fire side. >> Does he drive any fire equipment? >> Only the ambulance is in the squad right now.
>> Y in the past, yes. Drove the ladder, drove the tower, broke the tanker. Yeah. >> So now he would be driving the ambulance and squad car. >> Okay. >> I think as written I think it's two >> the frequency involved. I I have it too
as well. >> Any strong feelings about that? >> I I agree with both of you on this. >> Okay. >> I would um be interested to kind of revisit this, you know, in 8 months or something and just see how the position is working.
>> Yeah. you know, how often does this person go out and is part of a active scene >> and we can track that, too. >> We can track that. Yeah. >> Yeah. Because we could always come back and >> Okay. >> re-evaluate, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, two >> uh thoughts. Uh let's vote on it. >> Two. >> Yeah.
>> Two. >> Two. >> Two. >> Two. >> Yes. I'm sorry. I I thought I said yes. >> Experience number five. It seems straightforward. You call in the job description for a minimum of 10 years >> of experience in fire administration,
progressive leadership. I'm assuming there's no fluff on that. It's you need 10 years plus, which would bring it to a seven. >> Mhm. >> Is that correct? >> Any thoughts on that? Other opinions or >> you know a six is over seven and up to
10, but you're you're specifically asking for 10 plus. >> Mhm. >> Thoughts? >> I say seven. Yeah. >> 10 years. That's a long time. >> Okay. So,
over seven years and up to and including 10 years would be a six. >> Mhm. >> Oh. >> And I'm going to say it's a six because when I look at the rating of the fire chief, that is also 10 years experience and was rated a six.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I'm good with that. So that's where so it's up to 10 years over 10 years. >> There goes your job, right? >> That's a good catch. Thank you. >> So I would say a six. >> Okay. >> Y
>> other opinions. If not, we'll vote on that. >> Thank you, Diane. >> Good catch. >> Six. >> Six. >> Six. >> Six. >> Six. It is interaction with others. Customer service measures the the relative level of human
interaction and the responsibility which goes with the jobs for meeting, dealing with and influencing other individuals. Could be uh inside, outside the department. Consider how often the contacts are made, whether they involve furnishing or obtaining information only or whether
they involve influencing others. factor measures interpersonal skills required in work relationships. Uh I was thinking about this as it relates to some of the administrative pieces. Um procurement, you're dealing with vendors, I assume. >> Y exactly what I was just going to say.
>> Y >> okay. Uh I'll let other folks fire first here. Thoughts? >> Tell me what are your thoughts? >> I'm just taking it all in. I >> I think it's a three. So
>> they're not going to be the public information officer. >> He is not. >> No. So that person that person is not >> but there will be uh contact communication with service rep recipients, general public,
employees, all of that for this position. >> Yes. Agencies, vendors, >> banks. Yep. >> Yes. Yep. >> Agreed. >> I think it's a three. >> I think it's three. Um, can you explain why that would be? >> Um, especially with on the EMS side, we
have many vendors uh when it comes to whether it's equipment or supplies, >> billing, >> uh, billing, uh, the the apparatus themsel. We're designing one right now. It's being built right now. This that position is is going to is heavily weighed when we put this together. So, I
think I think that's that's an easy one with the vendors. That's an easy one when it comes to that. Whether it's vendors or suppliers or um other agencies, it's a it's that's a no-brainer for this one. >> Okay. >> Okay. I don't quite follow you. >> So >> So sorry to dig deeper. Um so this
position is going to work handinhand with vendors and suppliers >> for equipment >> to bring to training >> um on the ambulances. uh whether it's our stretchers, whether it's the batteries for the stair chairs or the Lucases,
>> um you know that >> defibs, >> defibs, um you know, ordering ordering pretty much anything that comes with it into the on that side of the of the of the of the house. >> Okay. So, this person's going to be for those subject matter expert for those
pieces of equipment and where they came from, how do we implement them, how do we train them? No, no, not necessarily as the as the that person, but but having the opportunity to have the conversation, >> you know, hey, would you mind reaching out to vendor X and would you can you
check in on on this piece of equipment that hasn't been delivered yet? Or um using his or her expertise, hey, the ambulance bet, you know, has to be this wide, has to have this many lights. that person could technically be an expert, but they also could be the, you know,
the uh what's the right word for it? That the administrator of that piece for me as well. >> So, I can give you an example. So, like if we when we buy a cruise, I'm the one who decides what the cruiser looks like, what's in the cruiser. I'm the one that gets the quote. I'm the one that goes before the committee to get the approval
to buy it. I'm the one that signs, you know what I mean? When we actually do it, then the deputy chief once I sign it and say order, this is ordered. He's the one that follows up. Where's the car? What's the standard? If they say that, that's how I see this. You know what I
mean? Your radio isn't going to fit. We need to switch that brand out with this brand. You know what I mean? So, the you're the big picture of the procure in the in the assembly, if you will. This person is the one who's going to follow up. Hey, it's been 3 months. Where's my cruiser? You know what I mean? That is
that is exactly Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> That's how it was when we were thinking about it in the beginning anyway. So, yeah. >> All right. >> Yeah. Any major changes need to happen. My deputy comes back to me and is like, "Hey, this is going to cost more or cost less or they say they can't do this,
then I feel it." And bounce it back, >> right? Okay. >> You know, for the follow. >> And that's I'm sorry. That reinforces your thinking about a three. >> That reinforces my thinking about a a three. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Okay. Yep. I can >> I'm
three >> three. >> Thank you for the explanation. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Number seven, confidentiality. >> Oh my gosh. >> This says this says payroll implications, budget implications,
>> um I assume this significant confidentiality involved from somebody who's on an EMS call. Um so fair to say that it's it's a consequential piece of this job. Uh number three says works with limited
confidential information, personnel records, bid proposals, citations, so forth so on which if to close might adversely affect operations, employee morale, create adverse public relations. before has regular access to departmental information and or a wide
variety of confidential information such as criminal investigations, negotiating positions, development proposals, so forth and so on. Five, full and complete access to municipalwide confidential information. The disclosure would cause
very serious legal and operational financial repercussions. >> Chief, what are you thinking? >> I'm thinking of a four myself. >> Okay, let's try it. the person, you know, this position would have regular access um you know, to whether it's payroll, whether it's, you know, uh
criminal investigations. I mean, we we do get a lot of records requests for specific situations. >> Um so, that person has to go into our EMS, you know, uh program and print something out for that person. So, they would have access to that. They would have to. >> Okay. Would they have discipline record
like personnel file stuff? >> Uh if it's on the EMS side, yes, they could. Um uh but that actually goes through her, you know. So >> yeah, we >> would go through her. >> I'm thinking more HIPPA information if he's responding to a call and he has insight as to
>> personal medical information. >> Yeah, that's that's that actually covers all of us. >> That covers all of us. >> Yeah. >> So >> So Diane, what are you thinking? Four or five? >> Um I wouldn't I don't think it rises to the level of a five. >> Yeah.
>> Um I'm thinking it's probably a four. I was leaning towards a three initially, but >> I'm thinking it's probably more towards a four. >> I agree with that. >> I would um support going a little bit stronger than less strong for
confidentiality. So, if we were looking at a three or four, I'd support a four. Yeah, I I say a four, especially if they're having anything to do with the supervision of personnel, right? >> Which could result in either whether it's recommendations for discipline or remediation or re-education. You know
what I mean? >> I think if that's in the cards for this position, then it's a four. >> I support a four. >> Let's vote on that. >> Four. >> Four. >> Four. >> Four.
>> Number eight. Occupational risks measures the relative degree of exposure to hazards which might cause injury on the job. The probability of injury as well as the severity of injuries if any accident actually occurred is being considered here.
Fair to say that there is some risk involved here especially you know on the EMS side. >> A three would be duties. Uh, by the way, Chief, you see the reason I'm reading some of the stuff, we can all see it >> because we videoed and because anyone listening may not be aware of how these
factors lay out. We always like to give some examples of of how they read. So, >> I would say a three. >> Sorry to >> jump in. >> No, it's all right. It's all right. Again, the four I got I got I circle the word four talks about frequent.
>> I think it's fair to say this is not a frequent exposure. I agree with >> but it does certainly have some and it does have the potential for risk depending on what kind of senior >> does have potential as a key word. >> Y >> so I would I would say a three as well. >> Y three >> three >> three great
>> three it is. Number nine complexity. How difficult is it to perform the essential functions of the job? Uh is the job made more difficult by the range and diversity of the assignment? Various uses of information technology,
relevance of guidelines for performing the work, the nature of the thinking challenge required to accomplish the work. Fair to say that this is a broad range of responsibilities, a complex range, if you will. There's a little of everything involved here.
>> Um, other thoughts? I can tell you what mine is after, but curious what other people are thinking on this one. >> I think I think broad range is >> I'm sorry. >> I think broad range is spot on. >> So number four. >> Yeah,
>> I can support a four. >> Chief, your thoughts on this one? >> I just finished reading number four and I agree with it too. Um, I wouldn't go so far as a five, but I would say Yeah. the broad range. >> Yeah. I I started to think about a five, but then I thought, no, that's really the chief's responsibility.
>> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> All the thoughts. If not, we'll vote. >> Leaning towards a three. >> Okay. Let's share thoughts. Yeah. So, if I read, and I'm going to check in a minute, the um I mean, I can see four,
but if I read four um assignments typically concern such matters as studying trends in the field for application to the work, assessing services, and recommending improvements, plan projects, devising new techniques for application to the work,
recommending policy standards or criteria, and solving typical occupational problems. Again, that to me seems more of a supervisory application, if you will. Um, >> but I understand the first sentence, the broad range of assignments employing
many different concepts, theories, principles, techniques, and so forth related to a professional or administrative field. Um, so that's where I get kind of it gets muddy for the four. Um three, the work consists of varied
extensive assignments requiring the practical application of a variety of concepts, practices, specialized techniques relating to a profession, highly technical or administrative field. Assignments typically involve evaluation which is spoken to in the job description
>> um and interpretation of factors, conditions or unusual circumstances, inspecting, testing, evaluation compliance with a established standards or criteria, gathering, analyzing and evaluating facts of data using specialized factf finding techniques. I
personally lean it towards more towards a three, but the broad range of assignments um could also be a work consist of varied and extension assignments. >> Well, but Diane, to your point, I don't know that this particular job has a broad range of assignments. It's pretty
narrow from what I >> So, so you think thinking it's a three? >> Yes. I don't have a problem with a three either. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I thought we were at a four. Yeah, we were good. >> That was a really good explanation.
>> We did we started to talk about four. >> All right. I'm like, am I am I like to guess myself? >> No, no, you're good. You're good. >> Yeah. No, I can uh you know, a three makes sense. That broad range of assignments. I mean, that's it's going to be kind of a narrow scope, right, of
um for this position. >> It's Yeah. The way it's written, it's administrative. >> Yeah. >> Yep. Okay. >> The only thing I thought that might reach towards a four is on the EMS side of things. The, you know, whether it's new protocols, new equipment, training
as such that it might rise to a four, but I I'm happy with it. But again, under his supervision and approval, >> and I can see it under the, you know, the compliance, the evaluation and compliance. I can see it under that. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> All right. Good discussion. Thank you. Vote >> three. Three,
>> three, >> three, three. >> Supervision received. >> Fact. This back evaluates the nature of the instructions, directions, control, and monitoring which this position
receives in this case obviously from the chief. >> Chief, let's turn to you for your thoughts on this one first. Um so the my my vision for this for for
the supervising on this one um it it goes along with the creation of the of my EMS um protocols and things like that. the uh we'll be looking at new EMS coordinators and um assistant coordinators and new programs things
like that that this position would be you know consistently working with so and supervising those that are >> this is receiving this for me I'm sorry to what degree would this individual
have these responsibilities without your oversight without your occasional checking in uh whether it's day to day, week to week, >> it would so >> how how independent >> so again it it would be independent um when I'm not there you know the the 19 hours obviously you would be in this
position would be in the office but it could be again they could still go out on a call and still supervise somebody on a call you know that type of thing um so >> I mean is this individual going to be responsible for actually developing
programs or really just um working within the >> no at times at times but for the most part it would be within the scope of what we put together the standards that we put together so right >> you no that's a good point good point >> that that to me suggests a four
>> does it >> I was leaning towards a four >> general objectives and may be monitored for progress coordination and completion but does have responsibility for developing and recommending right Okay,
I was thinking more like a three. Performed with minimal instruction or monitoring. Work may be verified for accuracy or correctness once assigned or after job requirements are mastered. Nearly all work is performed with minimal
instruction. >> Other thoughts? So the difference between three and four has responsibility for developing and recommending work requirements. So how much how much um autonomy is this
position going to have? >> Well, the only person that this position would have to um report to is is the chief anyway. So >> they would have autonomy on specific situations when it came to uh you know delivering the protocols and things like
that. >> Um putting together the the trainings, putting together um specific uh when it comes to even the design and things like that of our apparatus, they could he would be put or she whoever it is would be putting that stuff together to
present to me first anyway. So, >> um I could I could actually go with a three myself on this one. >> I don't want to rate it less than I mean it's a pretty um responsible position. >> It is. It is,
>> you know, and so I don't want to downgrade my marks, you know. I mean, I want to give it >> give them a solid um you know, level. This is another one I could see coming back to you in eight months, nine months and saying this, you
know what? I I believe I I think we should either go up or down on this one. >> Is this is this position going to develop and recommend work requirements? >> Possibly. Possibly. >> Okay. So, that's four >> without
recommend to you though. >> Oh, that he would come to that this position would obviously run it by me first before putting it into, you know, into fruition. I would still have to approve it. >> All right. So, let me do something. >> I'm between a three and a four.
>> That's a four then. >> Yeah, I'm thinking four. >> Chief Fisher, any thoughts? >> I also think >> I'm trying to balance what we're saying versus what's in writing and where I keep struggling. >> Yep. Um
it's develop and implement policies, procedures. >> Yeah. Because under that policy and strategy, it says nothing about under the supervision of the fire chief or under the approval of the fire chief on that >> develop and implement policies and
procedures for the department. Also, you know, 10 years of experience is some strong experience, right, on the job description. >> But I'm just thinking, does if we're saying this person has the autonomy to develop policy and implement
without your approval, does that contradict anything in your job description that says you're responsible for policy implementation and training? Like, >> so I guess I'd have to rewrite that, too. You're right. It would be, you know, assist with instead of develop.
>> Yeah. Cuz that's where, you know what I mean? That's a big it's written big there. >> But if >> but does it, you know what I mean? You don't want this make taking away. >> No, I would have final >> or contradicting with anything that you're responsibility. >> Correct. I would still have final say. Correct.
>> Okay. >> So fourth is has responsibility for developing and recommending. >> Correct. >> Still recommending. >> Still recommending. Correct. So in the job description under policy and >> see to me when I see three work maybe
verified for accuracy or correctness that's someone that has a very specific task. They're they're completing you know x y and z every week and they're turning it in and the chief is looking at it. But if you read the job description, things like managing costs, assisting with payroll, going out for
grants, analyzing data, ensuring compliance, that to me makes it sound like he is going to the chief with recommendation is receiving more supervision from the chief on some of these items that he is responsible for coordinating and looking at >> develop and implement policies and procedures for the department. But if
you look at resource management and policy strategy, so administration and operations assisting with Yes, I'm doing that under you under your direction. Y >> but resource management, policy and strategy, budget and efficiency
and even the leadership suggests he's doing that independently in the way that it's written unless I'm reading. No, you're saying it should say develop, implement, and ensure compliance with policy and standards under the chief supervision. >> I think each one of those should say,
you know, upon approval or under the supervision. >> Under the supervision. Y >> just like the, you know, the assisting up here, assisting with financial oversight. >> Yep. >> You know what I mean? He's assisting you with it. I think he's assisting all of these with you. Yep. >> With it. And then independently
executing once you say this is now yours. >> Yep. >> You know what I mean? But the imple to me develop and implement and ensure compliance with policies and standards is more of a chief thing than a >> than an assistant thing. >> So would you put under essential
responsibilities essential responsibilities and duties may include but are not limited to the following under the chief's >> supervision. >> Essential responsibilities and duties may include but are not limited to executing the following tasks under the approval and direct supervision of the
>> direct under direct. Yep. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> You know, supervision and approval of >> Y. >> You know what I mean? >> Yep. >> Under cuz they're your helper with this. They're not the doer under correct. >> Under the supervision of >> under the supervision and approval of
the fire chief. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Y >> So, so that connects it to a four in your in your opinion or >> I think it puts it back to a three. >> Okay. I think if if he's if he's just out there saying I created this training and I'm going to implement this training
with those people without his knowledge or final read through of this training that it's a four. >> Correct. >> I think if it's a three once assigned or after job requirements are mastered. That's that's to me the language that says I got to check with my boss to make
sure this training I'm about ready to implement and make sure everyone's compliant with is good. of as well. Okay. So, fourth is developing and recommending work requirements. >> So, recommending to the chief. >> Yeah. And I mean that's just one example of these, you know what I mean? The
developing of you know policy or >> four but >> yeah I mean I could go either three or four but I just I was more worried about >> I was more worried about the language here and you've corrected the language in the job description. >> Yeah. Yep. So now I can see both.
>> Yep. There are pieces. You can't go half though. >> I think it's more of a before because it's not just a you're doing X, Y, and Z. You're paying the bills, you're doing payroll, you're doing this, you're doing check, check, check, check. This is more of an interactive supervisy, you know, supporting.
>> That's why I think it >> I mean I when I look at the the the last sentence of four that that to me that suggests what what we've just talked about in the last 10 minutes, >> okay? is given general objectives and may be monitored for progress, coordination, and completion
>> under your supervision. >> Yeah, >> that feels like a four to me. >> Yep, I can see that. >> Let's vote, >> Lynn. Any four is fine. >> Four. >> Four. >> Four is good discussion. Thank you. >> That was good discussion.
>> Supervision given. >> Uh, no. >> Buckle up. It'll be a bumpy ride. It'll be a bumpy road. I'm not kidding. This is going to be >> the type of supervision. Is it functional? Is it technical? Is it direct? Is it administrative? Accountability measured in terms of the
responsibility for results uh and costs and methods, responsibility for personnel actions, hiring, discipline, termination, orientation. Again, this is sort of a hybrid. You know, budget development and controls who subordinates. Um
I think we can skip the first couple of of three. Provides immediate direction, control, monitoring over a functional unit or section of time spent. Supervisory responsibilities include direct accountability for quantitative and qualitative results but do not
extend to personnel hiring and firing or budgetary control. On the budget side, this person develops a budget but it does not control the budget. Is that correct, Chief? >> That is correct. >> Okay. A four provides direction control and monitoring of a major division,
highly technical section, multiple operating divisions of a department, responsibility for service delivery results, personnel actions, workforce and job planning, budget administration, cost control. A five, general supervisory responsibilities for a
department or a division of a major department, including all personnel actions, workforce planning, all phases of budget management and cost control. I didn't think it rose to that level. No. >> Um I thought it might rise to a four,
but open up the floor. >> So thoughts. >> What is a major division identified as? >> EMS. >> I was going to say EMS. >> I mean EMS is a >> is a major division operation. Yeah. >> I mean, again, many of those people are
firefighters as well, but you know, this person has the day-to-day for the EMS side, which is substantial. >> I'd say a three. >> Why? >> Um, so four personnel actions,
workforce, and job planning could do that, but this person is not going to be responsible for hiring, firing, discipline, right? >> 100%. >> Okay. >> That is that is 100% the fire chief. Okay. Um, service delivery results. Sure. Um, workforce and job planning.
Eh, not really because it's going to be such a specialized position, right? I mean, workforce and job planning is your >> Yep. >> Um, responsibility. >> Budget, administration, and cost control. That's your responsibility, chief. Right. >> Yep. >> Yeah. I get back to a three.
>> I think it's a three. >> Three. >> Three. Agree. >> Well, let's vote. >> Three. >> Three. >> Three. >> Three. Three. Number 12, supervision scope. This factor is used to evaluate the extent, breadth and depth of the
direction, monitoring and review given. Um, a four, regularly develops job and task requirements, is responsible for all aspects of job or task completion, and may direct and monitor other supervisors
and the results achieved. has job quality, personnel performance, evaluation and cost control responsibilities. >> Three. >> A three required to provide most job instructions, directions, coordinates multiple activities, jobs or projects.
Regularly reviews job performance, task and job coordination and the quality of the work performed. May develop work requirements and has responsibility to ensure projects are complete. Um I'm going back to a three because number four
um director monitor and monitor other supervisors and the results achieved. I mean this is not going to be at that level. This position is not going to be is responsible for all aspects of job or task completion. Okay. Um but that may
direct and monitor other supervisors. >> So everyone on the EMS side is an individual contributor other than this deputy. Correct. Okay. >> As job quality personnel performance evaluation. Nope. This person Well, they're going to have some part of that overall job performance evaluation.
Right. >> Yep. >> Because they'll have what they're what this physician specifically is working with personnel to train, right? But like, you know, behaviors are not going to be something, you know, could be part
of that relationship, but you're the one that's going to be doing the oversight with the performance devel, right? Okay. And what's the last one? Um cost control responsibilities, you know, to a point, right? Like, does this um radio
fit in the new, you know, cruiser for, you know, Patty? Do we get a Bose or do we get like a >> Wow. >> Yeah. I don't think I'll get a >> B. We're not even getting Motorola.
>> So, you know, as far as cost control responsibilities, you know, I think possibly at some, you know, some of that is going to fall onto this person with recommendations back to you. You know, we've got two different stretchers. You know, here are the pros and cons of each. >> Correct. Correct. Okay.
>> Okay. But I think that again that's going to be ultimately your responsibility. >> So that brings it to a three. Is that what you're think? Yes. >> Three. >> All right. Let's vote. >> Three. >> Three. >> Three. >> Three. >> Three. >> Number 13. Judgment and initiative.
>> Missed the tens. Right. You know, now we're up to 15. >> Three measures. Excuse me. Judgment and initiative measures the degree of independent action required by the physician and the extent to which duties are dictated by standard practice or the
exercise of judgment. Consider criteria such as the creative use effort used in devising new methods, techniques, policies, procedures, and the degree of participation in the formulation of long and short range plans and policies. So
let's just start there. Chief, how often, if at all, will this individual be responsible for participating in formulating long and short term short range plans and policies? >> That person, this person, whoever it would be, um, would be my right-hand man
who would throwing stuff off of and, you know, trying to put things together. Yes. >> So, participating in, not developing, but >> participating in Okay. >> Yep. >> Okay. Um thoughts?
>> Well, I'd say a three to start, you know, um performance of specialized procedures. That's what this person is, right? It's going it's going to be a very I think it's still an >> requiring subject matter subject matter expert subject matter.
>> I didn't hear you. >> Um requiring comprehensive knowledge of department division department functions and techniques. Okay. So I'd say that for sure or the exercise of technical expertise and applying standard professional techniques um exercise
judgment and the analysis da da da. So what about number four then? >> Well I I I I took this position to mean that this this individual would have considerable judgment to work independently on the EMS side >> maybe not on the administrative side.
How how independent do you see this individual on EMS activities? Um for me um there are days that this position would be again if I'm not in the office he's the goal is that that
person um makes decisions based on how I would make those decisions in the long run but not make a decision without picking up the phone and having a conversation with me >> uh prior to >> but the likelihood that that person stepping in is your >> you know um >> in your absence
>> is is not an ongoing standard of the position. It's an off one. >> Yep. It's a runoff. Yep. >> Okay. >> Um I I'm looking at a three myself on this as the more I read different ones, you know, I'm I'm thinking it's a three myself.
>> So, >> how often are you not in the office? Like 20 20% you are in the office? >> I'm there seven days a week. I'm there seven days a week. You're in the office? I'm supposed Yes, I am. I'm supposed to work 8 to 4 >> uh Monday through Fridays. Um, as I was
just telling the the group before you got here, I'm going to go home after this and go back to bed. Um, I was on a 72 um, you know, the other day with all the storms. I did the overnight shifts to give extra help to the guys and the girls. Um, so I put a lot of time and effort into this position.
>> Um, so >> no question. >> What's that? >> No question. >> It's impressive that you stayed awake during this meeting. But the likelihood that he's unreachable and this person is stepping into that role is very infrequent. >> It's very infrequent.
>> That was my Yeah. Very >> PTO coverage. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> So very infrequent. Um and even when I am not here, >> we're here. >> I do carry the phone even though Tracy tells me not to. Um and so I also give everybody that needs it the bat phone. I
call it the bad form. I private so they can get me if I'm, you know, somewhere else. >> I don't think it goes past a three. >> Yeah, I think I think it's a three to be honest with you. >> I get a three circle. >> Let's vote. >> Three. >> Three. >> Three. >> Three. Three.
>> Finally, accountability. >> In every position. There inherently exists the possibility of error. Whether it's through omission, commission, or direction. In rating this factor, consider the following. Likelihood of errors, possibility of error detection,
the probable effect of errors based on the degree to which the work is checked, either by procedures themselves, by supervision or by succeeding operations. Result of errors can be measured in the damage to building and equipment, labor and material costs, jeopardy to the
municipalities programs, monetary loss, personal injury, danger to the public, etc. Thoughts? That's a lot of words right there. >> Yeah. Well, this is this is this is the broadest of our >> Yeah.
>> I'd start with a four. >> I don't like that. Um errors in judgment. Our techniques would probably be difficult to detect. I don't like that sentence, you know. I mean, I think that if there was an edge error in judgment or technique for this position,
it could be it could be harmful. Yep. >> Right. >> So, I started at Ford, but then I was reading up from there. I'm not sure. You know, we don't really go into fives and sixes. And >> no, five, six, and seven are mine. My responsibility.
>> Five, six, and seven. >> I would say those are all, you know, >> let's read four. >> Yeah. >> Four is responsible for the accuracy, thoroughess, timely, and cost-effective completion of individual and group work. must coordinate work products or projects with other individuals or teams.
>> The nature of the works could be specialized technical procedures. Extensive analysis means that errors in judgment or technique would probably be difficult to detect. >> Yeah, I don't like that. That's kind of >> potential consequences may result in
excessive costs, purchasing of unsuitable equipment, materials. That's where I was thinking that it was a four. That if this person is >> Well, I was Lynn, you just made me think this one suggests no supervision. >> So, he's not executing the purchase of
equipment and if he screws up with the purchase, it's costing the town money or >> That's me. >> That's going to be him. Yeah. >> Now that it's read out loud, >> now that you read it, right? I agree. result, you know, potential consequences may result in excessive cost. If anything that has to do with spending money,
>> whether it's payroll or procurement first, that's him. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, let's read three. >> What about on the EMS side on, you know, on call? >> Uh, it's it still falls on me in the long run. >> It still falls on me in the long run. >> Okay. So, that may not rise to four
then. >> Okay. >> Let's read three again. responsible for independently producing accurate work, coordinate product with others, meet deadlines, assist others in job completion. >> Most work is not independently verified
to check or involve operations of large complex potentially dangerous equipment, increasing the scope and magnitude of errors. Potential consequences include monetary losses due to delays in processing information, waste or individual or group time and materials, damage to buildings and equipment, and
minor personality. gets a free sum to that >> I do. Yeah. If he doesn't follow up on timely things that are given, you know what I mean? Then that could result in those things as exactly worded by that. >> That's a pretty responsible position, isn't it? >> Other thoughts
>> three. Yep. So >> factors >> um so what we typically do from here is we tally the points under our new system. There's a a sheet. It's the last page in the second section. I don't know
if you guys have this or not. Y >> but it's basically the score range. >> Yeah. >> Um so this lands as 376 points. >> Okay. I'm a math wiz. Um which puts it at a 17 $17 an hour? Nope. 17 as a
>> grade 17. >> Let's go back to number one. >> Okay. So, >> grade 17 on a scale of 1 to 24. >> This is rated as a 17. >> Take one of these and pass it down. So, this is our new 2026 list of classifications and grade
ranges. Okay. >> So, what we do, Chief Ed, is we look, okay, and this isn't an exact science. Sure. >> But we look and say, okay, who are the 17s within this municipality? And does it feel right? Does it does it seem
proper that this individual is is grouped >> with this CL? And again, there's going to be high or there's going to be lower, but does it feel right? You know in this particular case the assistant director of the COA, assistant library director,
assistant town accountant, assistant town planner, >> assistant >> assistant treasur collector, deputy hoba master, electrical inspector, so forth and so on. Gota >> fire mechanic. >> Um, >> plumbing and gas inspector >> and I will point out that it is one
grade higher than a 16, which includes our firefighter EMT basics and firefighter paramedics. So would be one level above, one grade above a firefighter, full-time paramedic, antib-basic. >> Gotcha. >> How does that sit with you? >> Um,
>> are those the people he's supervising? >> Well, is he supervising or is he >> Well, yeah, >> he could be. >> Yeah, >> he could be. Yep, he could be. Or they could be. They keep saying he they could be. Yeah. >> Uh,
>> but I think when you look at it to the assistant count COA director, the assistant library director, when you look at the people who are in that category, >> they are second in charge of >> they're, you know what I mean? >> They're next in line. >> Especially if your goal ends up being having two deputies, one in charge of
EMS, one in charge of >> That's the way I'm looking at it in my mind. Yeah. that eventually down the line. >> Yeah. >> You know, whether it's two years from now, three years from now, that I would have >> Yeah. >> You know, two positions as deputies. >> Yep. >> You know, um
>> and it fell at 376. It fell squarely in the range. It wasn't on the cusp either way. It was a solid 17 >> because you even look at 16. You've got assist um admin assisted inspectional services. You know what I mean? Like that's a big
job, >> right? That's a 16. That's what I mean. >> Administrative assistance to the police. And you would think that this has a little bit more to it than than that. >> This has more teeth to it. >> I think I think it >> seems reasonable. >> Yeah. >> Again, in exact science, chief. Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Understood. >> Especially with such disperate department. >> Yeah. >> How do you know how do you >> So the deputy chief of police >> is a higher grade. Yeah. >> Um responsibility is much different.
much different. Oh, significantly different. >> It's also a full-time position. >> It's a full-time position and it's significantly Yeah. Okay. >> We have more full-time, you know what I mean? Employees. >> How many employees do you have? >> So, we have um for the police side of things, we have 12 full-time sworn um
plus part- timerrs. And then we have the communication center as well. >> Yeah. So, these guys have 52 >> with part time, but I mine are working, you know, 24/7. They're not just on call. I only have three part- timerrs for police.
>> 49 of the >> rated. The vast majority of those 52 are call firefighters >> call. So some might you might not see some more than three times >> probably. I I typically have, if you look at my payroll, I typically have 30
on my payroll. >> Yeah. >> All the time. >> Yeah. >> Everybody I have 30 that are there pretty pretty much every every payroll. >> Yeah. Yeah, we have. >> And then I have, as the chief said, I may have one my medics I I might have four of my pertame medics that might
work twice a month because they work full-time for other fire departments >> or for full-time EMS ambulance services, >> but I I I have to worry about 52 people every 49 people every day. >> Yeah, we sit squarely, as Diane said, in
the middle of the 17 range. So it seems, you know, it's not like we were right on the cusp of an 18. >> No, no, don't forget it. >> So I think I think we've been true to the, you know, to the methodology and and, you know, true to the >> the population in terms of where it
should. So and as as you said a couple times now, >> should it evolve such that you need to come back and and and talk about >> different or additional or, you know, substantially changed responsibilities, we can always take a second look at it. >> Sure.
Okay. >> Other thoughts? >> Chief, you good? >> Okay. Hearing none. Uh >> process. >> Accept a motion to adjourn a motion. Sec. Oh, >> I have a question. So, when we advertise
this job, um are we going to do the range of 17 for um the wages? That's a question for the town I mean between the fire chief and the town administrator how they draft the the
>> the posting or the the job. >> Okay. So that this would be the range though based on experience the whole thing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. Y >> well yeah I mean the pay would have to be within that range. >> Okay.
>> Should we second? All in favor say I. >> We are. Thank you for your time.