Let's call the April meeting of the town of Newbury Human Resource Board to order. Present are Doyle, Mark Blackman, John F, Anthony Antigo, Lynn Pe. Thank you. And we have a quorum. Uh Chief
Fisher will not be with us tonight. She had a conflict on the meeting she needed to attend. But we have a quorum and we're ready to go. As always, first item of business is to approve minutes from the prior meeting. Diane, thank you for getting those out
to us in advance. Has everyone had an opportunity to review the minutes? Yes. Is there a motion to approve? I'll make the motion. Is there a second? Second. Any discussion? I just called one I think just a little baby typo in number seven. Other
business, the last sentence. It was also recommended that at a minimum the town perform a salary market data every three years. Should that be data survey or survey instead of data? How about just salary? It didn't make sense to me that
that language. Perform a salary market data review. How about just salary survey? Yeah, probably makes salary. Okay. Yeah. So, approved as amended. Yeah. Okay.
Does anyone else have other thoughts, comments? All those in favor of accepting the minutes as written with that exception, say I. I. I. Thank you. Next order of business, employee issues, Diane, return to you. Anything
that we should be aware of that is new? Nothing that I'm aware of. [Music] Nothing from Patty as well as you know. Nope. personal actions and job vacancies. Last month, we talked about the fact that
uh that the chief had filled the harbor master position, the parking attendant for Palm Island, talked about Martha Ley retiring at the end of this month. Y and Sally Palen had been hired to
refill the position. She's on board. She is on board. Great. And the PD also has a full-time dispatcher, full-time patrolman positions open. Anything new there? Um, so she just last week, uh, moved one of I think she referenced this at the last meeting. One of the
part-time dispatchers moved into a full-time position. Came in last week to go and pay more. So, okay. Um, you still have the full-time patrol position available as far as we know. As far as we know. Okay. anything new in town hall in terms of um trying to take we did
have a um an opening for a full-time firefighter I think with someone that had resigned. Um that position was offered to someone and filled last week as well and I believe she's starting uh uh the 20 she started yesterday. Great.
So fulltime fire. So we now are back to a full-time six um full-time firefighters. Great. Thanks. So that's all I'm aware of. Okay. Uh I'm not aware of any ethics issues, discrimination issues, workplace
issues, safety issues typically returned to the chief of that. But again, I think everything is all the protocols have remained stagnant for number of months now. Right. Okay. Other business. Let me turn to Diane. Uh, as I mentioned in the email,
just confirming today's meeting, uh, as we started to talk about, Sandy, as promised, uh, has pretty much fulfilled all of her obligations to work on this project. Minus one. We're still waiting, I think. Okay. Uh, by way of some additional
uh, work product that she sent along to Diane as her point person here over the last week or so. And and that's the detail that we'll get out to everybody over the next day or so. Diane, if you wouldn't mind just sharing some general thoughts about what you've received and where we go from here. Sure. And then I
have um something else just to update you on. So um after our last meeting, I started to receive some of the information from her. I have received the full time I mean the final report which we had said, you know, the last meeting she it was in draft form. She asked if there was any changes. I have received the final report. I'll send
that out. I received the additional um full-time firefighter or firefighter um salary survey that she referenced that she was still gathering information on. I received that. Um and then as I explained to Mark, I've received an email from her with five different
attachments that talks about the classification plan, the new classification schedule um that she had recommended in the report. It also included um the um the rating system which went to 13 points I think 13
different classification factors versus 10 and as we talked about I think the consensus at the last meeting was that we were going to migrate towards that because it was more extensive and there were a couple of other attachments. So I have not had a chance to thoroughly go through that but I will forward that
email with all five attachments. Thank you. And so the idea would be, I think, to look at implementation of that. And I think the idea was that it was going to be implemented for July one, the beginning of the new fiscal year. So um over the next month or so, it gives us
time to review everything. Yeah, we'll review it and then it will be ready to go for implementation for July 1. And we'll get all the the you know, I'll send out the email, but it will have all of the um the factors again, the new classification schedule. I can't remember all five attachments, but the
thing that I'm still waiting for was that she referenced when she came was the portal that she talked about. There was a portal that I would have access to and Tracy and I had thought that we would have that by now, but we we don't have that. So, I'm going to follow up on that with her. Okay. So, it's been sort
of coming in in clumps. Um, so that's what I have and take the next month or so. I'll get everything out tomorrow. Um, but I get to go through it and look at how we implemented and swapping out documents and all of that. So, thank
you. Open it up to discussion. Question. Um, so as far are we making any um wage changes based on her work? No, I think you had that question was raised with
Tracy because the budget's already been set, right? But obviously this information would be taken into consideration if there is future retirements or turnover. Obviously if we're hiring somebody new and we're looking to see what the competitive salary is, we would look at that
document and and take it into consideration I think with any new hires. But the budget has been set and it's not that we're going to go through and change people's pay rates based on those new information. Okay. What about
the next next f fiscal year? That would be fiscal actually fiscal 27 because tonight at town meeting is the budget for fiscal 26. Okay. That's already we we work on start by 125. Right. We start preparing that budget in February. Yep.
Uh actually even earlier I think our our individual budgets are due in December or January. So those would be any other changes would be fiscal 27. Okay. Do we anticipate that we're there are going to be recommendations from departments to
adopt any of these new wages, new salary um based on the salary data that's been presented? We don't distribute that really like we don't distribute those weights or anything to employees or or department managers. But if someone were
I think we had a discussion about if someone were to come and request an adjustment based on it being either uh requested by the employee themselves or what have you. I think we talked about the fact that that would be considered as part of our continuing process of
looking at pay scales. I think we talked about that last rationale for my question to Tracy at the very closing moment. Yes. was she anticipated that I was asking the question is is the village does the
village know about this work with the firm looking at it but I my question more precisely was how many employees know that this is going on and is it getting a a a an influx or a great a
great amount of advocating interviews with department heads somewhere down the line is it getting back to that I've had from any of the department heads that they've had people knock on the door and advocating for a greater
raise and thinking this is if they're talking about it at a board level and a committee level uh maybe it's time for me to go in and advocate for myself. I have not heard of anyone coming and requesting through their department managers. Again, I'm not privy to what conversations Tracy's had with
department managers. This is a public forum. people are fully aware that it's being but employees employees are at work they're not tuning in on this it's recorded I understand well they they also know that the classification system as is the case
with all documents are public records and I would hearken back to what Sy's primary takeaway was from all of her research and that is relatively speaking we're in pretty good shape good shape there are some tweaks that might happen
at the bottom There are some tweaks that might happen at the top, but by and large she felt we were I don't want to put words on her mouth, but I think it's fair to say we were in in good shape in terms of the compensation system. And so, I mean, the way I saw it is that
going forward to to Lynn's question, certainly anytime there is a new position to be rated, we look at at at that competitive market data. anytime we're looking to not readjust but to to reclassify a position then we knock it
back to that data to see you know how far we have to go but uh I I was not of the impression that that um that there was a human cry out there for for comp change changes most employees know that that cost of living
is what had been the last few years I guess and is likely to be going forward given the budget cycle. So, I'm not sure if that answers the question you originally asking, Lyn, or Yeah. Um, so from the
last meeting when we were talking about this, um, and I hate to belabor the point, but, uh, you know, typically when you have a salary survey that is done, you know, it's going to come back with some adjustments, you know, to people in
different positions, right? And um so it sounds like we are not entertaining, you know, going out to each position and um reviewing. No, there were like a few there were a couple that she cited. Um and I also
think that what Tracy alluded to was that we've had a lot of turnover with positions for various reasons and when she's had to go out to the market, there's had there's been a need to look at salaries at that point. Yeah. So, some of these have already sort of by
virtual new hires or promotions has already received sort of an adjustment, but no, I don't um my recollection was that we're not going to be going out and looking at those. I think there were just a couple. There were very few and one of them I
know is going to be retiring. So, there would be a need to look at competitive data when we start to look at I I think it it would have been different to to your point. I think and I think it would have been a different exercise if we were if we were doing this because there
had been, for lack of a better word, a run on the bank. You know, if if a dozen employees had come in and said this is just unacceptable or, you know, we're way behind the eight-ball here and and I need an adjustment. Uh that was
certainly not the case. Not to suggest it couldn't happen. could happen any day. But the genesis of this was really just us as a board and Tracy agreeing that because it had been so many years, we just had no idea as to how our comp
structure looked relative to competing municipalities in in Essex County. And so I think that was the that was the reason it was done, not because a number of people were raising their hands saying, you know, I just can't I can't continue in these weights. It's always
going to be some I guess but Okay. So, okay. Yeah. I think that was just the general consensus of what Tracy had said was and that we we got into that a little bit when we talked about how do we keep this information current. It's we're going to keep it current by
continuing look to look at positions. If there's a request for someone who says, you know, I'm my compared to my my cohorts in other communities, I'm underpaid, we would then be able to look to this document and say, "Oh, okay. Well, you know, maybe there's a need for an adjustment here if we wanted to
retain, but and I also remember her saying that a lot of these positions have because of the market in which she's had to hire new people had already received some of the adjustments, but we just didn't know that. None of us knew. That's why we went through the exercise of trying to see where we were. But my
understanding is that there was no intention of okay doing um widespread review and adjustment of positions. Uh so if we do have turnover a retirement in one position and so then we're going
to you know based on market see if we need to make an adjustment and we have this as our baseline. So I'm getting in the weeds again apologies. So say we have to do that and then what about people beneath that position and I did bring this up
before I know and so um I'm just kind of beating a a drum here but so say you know in one department the department head retires so we do kind of a market analysis you know based using this as a basis and using current data and then
what about you know the people underneath that position if that position has shifted you know what about the others. It may be that that position was within market data. We'd have to look, but I know the P the one that's in the retirement that's happening late
summer is not a department head. Um it's a clerical position, but I would say that I guess we have to refer back. So if if the department head was below market, that doesn't necessarily mean that the the administrative assistant would be under market. We'd have to look
because comparatively that may have been fine. Yep. So, um I wouldn't see a need for I guess I'm trying to just kind of go with trickle down. Well, so you're saying like Yeah. I mean, I
think just to make sure that we're staying um competitive for, you know, not just not just being responsive, but being proactive, you know. So, this was a proactive exercise. Um but it's here, you know, it's just being here. And so
if somebody leaves and and we're being responsive to say a retirement, you know, just doing a quick market analysis, not a quick market analysis, but a market analysis to make sure that we are um where we need to be to be competitive for candidates and that
position. Yes. Um and then you know what about others in that department? So maybe it's a getting to be a hard to fill department, you know. Um I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. Yeah. How does that impact the overall operation of that department? Yeah.
Okay. And not just not just waiting until somebody else raises their hands, but rather, you know, being proactive based on what we know, right? And I think part of that exercise would be, correct me if I'm wrong, would be the
other decision that came out of this exercise, which was that Tracy would ensure that on an annual basis, each of the department managers is responsible for looking at all the job descriptions that sit, you know, within their
jurisdiction to make sure that there's nothing a miss that that something doesn't or might require to be adjusted. And so I think I think that will help mitigate some of that problem as well. And I think that was an annual exercise, wasn't it? We talked about the fall.
Yeah. Doing that fall, right? As the beginning of the start of the budgetary process that starts in December, I do remember that. Yeah. Yeah. So we will have every department look at every position in their department and just review those job descriptions. Yeah. And
it's not necessarily to review compensation. is to review job descriptions to see if there are discrepancies or if there are adjustments that they would recommend to Tracy. This came up with a recent um job there was something there was a job that I know the library just recently went
through their job descriptions but maybe it was maybe it was Cindy Courier at the Council on Aging. There was a job description that had been updated. Mhm. Um, and we talked about that at the last meeting that in September is the beginning of the budgetary process that all department managers would look at
their job descriptions to make sure that they're up to date so that we don't have a job that hasn't been looked at in 10 or 15 years. Right. Exactly. And this is going to be annual that we ask department managers. We talked about that annually. And then every 3 years we would go outside for a
um quick update on the salaries. Yep. Okay. Great. Not nearly to the extent that Sandy did this time, sort of a a winnowed down version of what she did this time. Yeah. Well, if we have good data from this um project, you know, then we shouldn't
need to have a big project again, right? Right. And our classification system and our reading our classification schedule. Um dropping the 0.1.2.3 really kind of just looking at it. there wasn't she said there wasn't a lot but um just making sure that the way
that we go about conducting our analysis of the jobs is also still strong and makes sense. Yeah, she did feel that our our current rating system has served us well but at the same time she felt that what she had available which is what she recommends apparently to all of her
municipal clients is something that's a little bit more robust has more factors in it and it spoke to some of the questions we had last month. So, uh, so let's just talk about that. My thought was Diane will get this out to us in the next 24 48 hours, which
gives us the next 3 4 weeks to digest it. There's a lot there. And I was thinking that when we set the agenda for next month, we'll dedicate a chunk of time to talking about what we've reviewed, get everyone's thoughts. You know, I'm sure
there'll be some differences of opinion about this or that or the other thing and make that an exercise as part of our next meeting. Is she going to come? I don't believe so. She's not coming back. I don't believe so. Okay. So, the
way that I guess my cuz I've been sort of like trying to wrap my head around it as well. I think there's two parts. There's the part of, you know, everybody that sits on this board having the new tools to be able to come to the table and review the jobs and review the classification. And then there's the
implementation part behind the scenes of, you know, making sure that we have all of those schedules in place and then um again implementation behind reminding folks in September that they have to do their job description reviews. There's just a lot of the implementation that I
do in terms of keeping track of the new information, if you will. So I kind of see those two things working hand in hand. Um but there's not a lot there won't be a lot for us other than to just talk about okay this is our new classification. This is what we need to
do as we look at new jobs. Um but then there's the I'm sure it'll it'll generate some discussion around the table. Yeah. And I would like to suggest that uh we invite Tracy to this next meeting as well. Give her an opportunity to weigh in on it. So we'll have to look
at that cuz that's Memorial Day. in a sec. So, uh, my thought was maybe plan on a slightly extended meeting next time, maybe, you know, budget for, you know, 75 minutes, give or take,
and may not take it take more than an hour. But assuming we have a normal agenda, which we typically go through pretty quickly, and then dedicate dedicate another 30 to 45 minutes to to review what we've looked at over the last month through Dian's uh email and
uh you know, make whatever final decision we have to offer that. Does that work? Good. Mhm. Okay. Let's talk about a date before we get on to the next thing. And then I have one thing to update. So May 26 would be the next meeting, but
that's Memorial Day. [Music] I'm out of town the next week. Out of town the next week. Yes. The week of June 1st, they're out of town. Okay. So that would leave us with either Monday the 19th or, you know, in a case like
this, it wouldn't necessarily have to be a Monday. If if if the 19th doesn't work for people, we can work around Memorial Day. You know, whether it's the 27th, the 28th, or the 27th would work for me. That's the Tuesday of that week. Yep.
We'd have to check and see if their room's available. I know Tuesday sometimes can be problematic. I'd have to see if there's a select board meeting. Yeah. Last time we did that, we ended up in the kitchen. We ended up in the kitchen last time. Kitchen. Yeah. And we didn't have the reporting. Well, how how do folks feel
about the 19th, the the Monday prior? That's fine. You think that works? I don't think it's the 19th. John, that good for you? I think so.
Does everyone feel like they can actually that probably works well because then if we have anything else before the June meeting, you know, if we have to address anything cuz June would be the last meeting year. Okay. You want to shoot for the 19th? Okay. I will double check the dates and all of that
in the room. Thank you. Let's put it in for let's say from 4 to 5:30 just to be on the safe side. Okay. Was that time about time you suggest? 1600 for an hour and a half. 4
to 4. Okay. That's civilian time. 1600. Yeah. I don't know. I think it's there now. If there's an issue, I'll let you know tomorrow. So, as of now, we're on for the 19th of May. Monday the 19th from 4 to 5:30. You want me to see if
Tracy's available? Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Yep. I'm sure she's under today. So, thank you all for your willingness to punch in a week early on that. I think it makes sense. And then, like I said, if we That gives us five or five or so weeks before the end of the fiscal year
if we need to. Right. Right. Diane said you had another uh Yeah. So, um so it was interesting. Um I was on a Zoom call today through the Mass Municipal HR Massachusetts
Municipal Association, the MMHR um association, which was the group that did the salary surveys a year ago or so, and then they stopped doing them. Um, so they had sent out a Zoom request um to to be on this call to talk about
salary data. Um, so it's interesting. So they the I've now figured out why they stopped doing it because they were in the process of starting to work with a third-party contractor. Um, and the name of the company is Litics. Um, also known
as ARED. So they've so m MMHR has partnered with an outside agency to do exactly what they used to do on a much more comprehensive similar to what s um Sandy's firm did but on a much bigger scale. So I sat on the hour call and I
thought oh well this is why they stopped doing it because they were in the works of talking with this third party vendor. So they started off the um the company that they partnered with had started off working with a lot of the school districts and making sure that school um
schools and school districts a lot of their teacher salaries etc. Now they're branching into the municipal world um and doing this sort of benchmarking if you will. So it's a platform where you can log in and have at your fingertips
all of the salary data that you you know would use in looking at your collective bargaining agreements. Um much more advanced than what they had done on a very rudimentary level with us contributing the data and then sort of spitting it back out. This is on a much
bigger scale and it's a salary, it's a um it's a software platform. Um and uh they are just starting out. They've got 14 people on 14 communities on board right now. They're looking for their next 36 to join because they obviously
can't bring 300 cities and towns all on at the same time. Um so it was interesting. Um is this a subscription service? Yes, it's a subscription service. Okay. So which cost yes um so they had their salary survey
subcommittee had been working with this firm which now explains why again why they stopped doing it. So the cost structure um and Lynn to your point it had everything from you know uniform costs uh longevity insurance I mean
anything anything and everything benefits administration wise you could it was in there and the way that they got their information was um through public records uh contracts all collective bargaining agreements and in
the case of um just like clerical data or other positions that are within town halls that aren't through like a a contract. Um they would solicit the information somehow and they had other sources that they used. So the cost of
it is just under the $10,000 threshold which is for the $10,000 threshold as you recall is yes annually it's um that's where you would need to go out and get competitive bids and so forth. So, um, they do base it on the size of
your budget. So, obviously they try to give smaller communities a little bit of a break. Um, but they are looking for they don't want people coming in and just logging requesting the service for a year if they're in contract negotiations and then sort of opting
out. They want people to sign a three-year agreement. So, you're looking at, you know, close to $30,000 over a three-year period. Um, so it was just interesting because it was I mean it was great. The tool was amazing. You had every information all the information
that you could possibly want, but I think for a community of our size, you know, that's pretty cost prohibitive. Um, we're not I we could certainly couldn't withstand that cost over and nor would you know to to the bigger cities and towns. I think the savings
that they might recognize through using those tools to negotiate with their unions would probably pay for itself, but you know, in our case, I don't think I I know that we wouldn't necessarily be able to incur that cost, but I just wanted to bring it up here because we've
talked about in the past how they used to do this salary information and how they all of a sudden just stopped and it seems like this has been in the works and maybe this was the direction that they were going. Blue slips sink ships. Yeah. So, um I just I just wanted to just just for
conversation just let you know that that that's sort of what they it it seems it seems the dynamics of job description and and salary salary. Obviously, they're both organic
uh in individually in salary perhaps straight line once a year review as opposed to the service being every 36 months or uh it seems it seems almost uh excessive to be under that under that
level of study every single season. Well, the I should say that part of it too is if you negotiate a three-year contract, say for the police union, it's going to it's going to cost out for you exactly what those increases are going to look like. There's a there's a budgeting component to this as well.
It's it's it's basically the Cadillac of salary information. It's got a budgeting aspect to it. So, if you're, you know, if you're renewing your, again, police union contract and it's a 233, it's going to cost out what those expenses
are. Um, and you can actually go in, I think, and and play around with the numbers if you're in the midst of negotiations. But again, they are recognizing that they don't want people jumping in here in the year that they're negotiating and then opt out when they don't need them. Uh well the good news
for us is we've already done something is the right word but you know Sandy has just delivered to us a pretty comprehensive set of numbers and study. So um you know my thinking is like you said
for the for the big cities and towns it's and this is throughout the US it's municipalities. Um well it's the mass municipal. Okay. I don't know if they're I mean I'm sure they must have a they must offer their service in other communities. They're partnering with the Massachusetts
Municipal HR platform. Okay. Um so and for those for those big cities, I mean it's probably a decimal point and then there's 12 zeros before you get to this is a percentage of what their overall operating budget is. for us. I mean, not that $10,000 is a huge number for our
budget, but it's it's much more significant for us than it would be for Hilo or Brockton or the city, the bigger cities. I just thought it was interesting because we wondered why they stopped doing it. Um, but it's it's on a
much broader professional all-incclusive. I mean, it was it was it was pretty impressive. Um, but Must be pretty robust software. Yeah. So, okay. Thank you, D. Anyway, just
thought you know, just thought it was interesting on that. Yeah. Okay. Is that it? Yeah. No, I just wanted to very interesting. Does anyone have other thoughts, other
new business to address, questions? Okay. So, our takeaways are that Diane will get all the um all the deliveries from Sandy out to us in the next 24 to 48 hours. We'll all have an opportunity to get those to Patty as well. It will go out in two emails. There'll be the
final report with the fire and then it will be all of the documents with the classification schedule, the classification, the factors and all of that will come in a se separate email. Great. Thank you. And we'd ask everyone to do what they can over the next three weeks to dig into that stuff and and get
get ourselves prepared for the meeting on the uh what we say the 19th. The 19th. The 19th. Great. Okay. All right. Other thoughts? No. That's it. Is there a motion to adjurnn? So move. So move. Second. Second. Any
discussion? Or a jar.