So, open space uh meeting of September the second by Zoom. Um, and I guess we should we're supposed to have a roll call, right? So, um,
let's do the roll call here. Uh Mike here and Christina here. Yeah. And Kristen here and Jim present and Sean.
Hello. And Sadie and myself David Pal. So um and Bill is is there. Yes. Bill. Yeah. Okay. We hear you.
All right. So, we're all present. Um, and I guess uh we should look at the minutes. Yes. Of the last meeting, which for some strange reason I can't seem to
find. Um, which is a bit embarrassing. Uh, oh, wait a minute. I did. I managed to do it. Um, so does anybody have any uh changes or
updates or anything they want to say about the um minutes to our last meeting which was on July 15th. So, hearing none, um could somebody
please um propose to accept the minutes? I propose we accept the minutes from the last meeting. Okay. And somebody second that. I'll second it. Okay. And all in favor, please say I.
I. I. Okay. So I think that's fine. All right. Um Okay. So how do we want to
do we have progress reports from people Sadi that you want to share with us or how do we go about things at this point? because I with the exception of the agenda actually do not have anything
that I haven't seen before. Um yes. So I yeah the agenda was a little bit general but I um had a couple things I wanted to bring up. Um, so I had our mapping person from MVPC
reach back out to us a little couple weeks ago now, um, asking if we wanted to, you know, make any edits to any maps. So, I wanted to just, you know, kind of go through with everybody. Um today I spent a lot a lot of time going
through um the workbook and going through each section's map requirements and making sure that what we had from MV MVPC was what was required. Um and um I don't know if you guys have any input on
the maps, but I can just kind of maybe run them through. Oh, Christina, you said you have something. I I figured I could just kind of, you know, share them one by one. We could talk about anything or we could just, you know, say this looks good. We're ready to go. Um the only thing that I well Kristen and I
talked about a little bit was um the zoning and unique features maps, but other than that, they all look great to me. So, if other people have things they want to talk about um map related, I thought we could just kick that out of the way first. Um that sounds great to me because I had
questions about the three maps in section three. simple. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I should say comment on section four. So, yeah, maybe we just start at the beginning. Satie, you if you might want to run through and I can chime in on mine and Jim Jim, you can chime in on yours. Yeah. And I was I should I should
preface saying the required maps in section three. So, yeah, sounds good. Okay, let me just get them up here. Um, okay. Um,
so map one is regional context. This is very self-explanatory. Can everyone see that? Yep. Perfect. Okay, let me
find where in the Oh, um, yeah, the the workbook's great. super explicit about um what like it suggested I think you're this is
the regional context for my section right section three the community setting uh yes that's where it will be put into the right yeah yeah because they suggested like using the um
um they s I thought maybe now I can't quite find it but I know I'm trying They were saying use use the o the d the data viewer as they have referenced in the workbook but this kind of matches an
example of what they were talking about. So I think it's good. Okay. It's just context for like upper and lower Marramac Valley. Yes. And I mean just because we're practically on the New Hampshire border. I mean, should that be kind of more
pronounced than the regional context map? Um, sorry. Um, just Okay, you're seeing the regional context map now, right? Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Say that again, Mike. Good point. Um, I was just thinking the state border
might want to be more pronounced just, you know what I mean? As far as like locating where we we are, you know what I mean? Some people, yes, some people could pick this up and not know that Plastau is I don't know. I I can't see. Maybe it says New Hampshire
next to all those town names, but I just thought the border might be more pronounced. Okay, I think that's a great suggestion, Mike. Sounds good. Um, any other thoughts about this? Kristen mentioned maybe kind
of outlining the Great Marsh since it's kind of a it's a um area like a area of environmental concern that covers multiple different communities. So maybe that could be
pointed out somehow. So if we do that, we got to zoom out more as it goes down south, right? Because I mean it technically starts Gloucester. Yeah.
Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. Or maybe we just kind of show where it is um in relation to our neighboring towns um whatever. Maybe maybe they have thoughts about that um over at MVPC. But that's a good
point, too. Yeah. I wasn't sure if there's I mean you don't necessarily need to put in layers of things that are in other maps, but that it says I don't know if the hydrographic features and streams like
that kind of made me think like sort of pretty significant to the regional to the region that were part of the Great Marsh um from my perspective. But um yeah, I
mean you could zoom out a little and include Gloucester probably. That wouldn't change it too much. It's not like this tells you too much anyway. Or I mean, you know, since it's talked about probably throughout sections of the plan, you could just highlight where
it is in Newbury, too, if you didn't want to change the scale. Right. That's true. Um, I'm curious how open space is defined, that green color there, just
because it's in the open space and recreation plan. So, I'm just curious where that layer comes from and like how it's defined. Because if I was the state, I would look at that and say, "Oh, Newberry is in good shape. They don't need any money because they have plenty of open space." So, I'm almost
like I'm almost Yeah. So, I'm curious where the green comes from. Okay. Well, that uh I think I can answer that question. The green comes from the maps
that both uh mass h both the state and more specifically um the regional planners um the rar um valley guys they generated this map.
We didn't. All right. And you'll find that mass GIS is is the basis for this. And so what you have on there is the range of uh state and and private and
federal which is a standard. I mean this what's I'm a bit confused about all of this. This is a standard issue issue map and the regional context as I read this in terms of planner
language is where we are in relation to other communities and interesting things like the ocean and major rivers. Um is am I wrong?
I mean, you know, when we do um what we call baseline reports for conservation restrictions, we have a regional context map that starts that out and it like it it's not intended to show like adjacent open space or anything like
that. It's it's literally to like locate you, you know, which to me is what that typically would be in a regional context map. So, I think I'm thinking the same way you are. I mean, at glance that looks like the
protected open space layer. So, um again would be federal, state, private, that's permanently protected. So, they I mean if that's what it is then they could always just add that to the label just so people were clarified on that. Yeah, that was what I was wondering. Is it protected open space or is it just
undeveloped areas? Yeah. So, you guys are more familiar with MassGis um definitions than I am. So, that's where my question comes from. Yeah. Because to me, I agree. I feel like regional context is where are we in Massachusetts? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
Yeah. So it it seems like the coloring is just to distinguish Newbury from the other communities. It it's not like it it I don't think it's representative of anything in particular aside from that. Is that I mean that was my reading.
Yeah. That that's I mean we have right yeah if all you if you just look at the legend down at the bottom right hand corner what the red legend does is is
tell you what it's showing and in if you were living in West Newbury you would get the same kind of version except we would be a whites face and West Newbury would look like us. That's
to, you know, is that Jim? Does that take care of your concern? I I don't have a concern. Um, but it was Sean who was speaking. Is that what you were? No. Well, no, but I thought we started off because you asked something about this
which I Well, it's in my It's I I had the It's in section three, which starts with the regional context. Yes. So what I would say is I mean if I and I'm going to go right to the workbook and just quickly the mapping considerations for that um say that a
map that illustrates the regional context of the community depicting surrounding communities check we've done that its overall location in the state check adding the New Hampshire etc. Other things such as water resources check which are there regional transportation networks and the like can
also be included. I think we don't want to do too much there and I think having the roads um 95 there makes a lot of sense. You could argue maybe route one should be shown since we tend to describe our community you know by sort
of those by also root how it is in relation to route one. But uh you know I think other than that I think it's it's fine. So there's nothing else specified in your um in in the the handbook in terms
of of information we need. Well there's other you know the the the descriptive text in the in the regional context section. Yeah. mentions like the WMA, the wildlife management areas, you know, Plum Island, wildlife refuge, etc. You
could I think if we try to that's getting away from, you know, more what we just talked about what the goal of a regional context map is. Yeah. But what I I was asking was Yeah. Yeah, you read a list of stuff that need can
be and probably should be in the regional context and that list came from the the the handbook or whatever you want. You know, it it does they specifically this is for the required map and I just read that right and and you read us the entire
list. I did. It wasn't Yeah. And it really Right. Yep. And I think we've satisfied it. I don't think we need Well, once again, I would just remind you that all of this stuff has been done before
and unless there has been a major change, um I I don't think we just take everything for granted, but I I do think we can sort of relax a little uh as I would see it. Um so uh you know because
the source of much of this data is the regional planning commission um and they update their data because the state does and also the planning commission is required to so I I I think we can sort
of relax a bit. Okay. So does anyone have any more concerns about this map? Maybe we can move to map number two. Um, all righty. Map number two. Oh, map
two. Required map two is the environmental justice map, which is not applicable. So, I'll move to the required map three, which is the zoning map or actually sorry, sorry. Um, we have another map um for section three
which is uh population. Is that what you're going to say, Jim? Sorry. No, that I mean if there if if there was a population one um that would be an additional map, not a required one, I guess, right? Yeah, I think they kind of they gave it
to us in the big pack of maps that they made. So, I fig Yeah, and that makes sense. Um, I'll just say very quickly because yeah, they call it out in the workbook even though it's not labeled as a required map.
they say use a gear gear maps um and uh that there's population um you know with the population information there and since we're not doing an environmental justice population one then this you know I think is a good what you're
showing is seems like a good good one to have in place right okay even though technically it's not required so Right. Yep. All right. Um, any thoughts on this map? I think we talked about this map a while
ago. Um, so I don't think there Yeah, go ahead, Jim. No, no, I like it. I like how it's starting now to zoom in a little more from the regional context one. So, you know, makes a lot of sense. So, yeah.
Um, yeah, I'm the I'm the guy who has problems with this, but let it go. I think well I can definitely I remember your comment David about how
the I think what you said was the grouping or the like you know land areas didn't really Yeah. It's it's it's it's frankly the problem is it's a sort of it it again is is drawn from survey
numbers um which which are based on some principles that don't reflect our community in a helpful way. That's that's and I just find the one particular area which is the one area as
you look at it which is to the right as to the east of Route 1A is is Cucku Land. I mean it really is but it never mind. Um there's going to be a fair amount of stuff in this um in
the draft. Well, not draft but in this plan in terms of the required stuff which is cuckoo land and we just have to from my point of view we should understand that
and just live with it. Um there you go. Okay. Uh S. Yes. Hi Sean, could you could you just zoom in on the key for a minute? Yes. I can't really read it. Yeah, it is interesting that the that
Plum Island, right, the southern section of Plleum Island is um shown as sort of like in the medium densely populated area. So that must be part of the craziness that we're just willing to swallow.
Yeah. I mean it just look at it. Most of us know the town well enough to know that for example based on the legend. Okay, the orange color. Now I know I'm red green color blind, but in this case
there's no chance for me to I think make a mistake. The orange color there, okay, which show is shown on the refuge is cuckoo. I mean it's ridiculous. uh because the refuge starts you know
way off the top of the map and inter interestingly a vast section I would say up to 80% of the area to the left in red is also part of the refuge and nobody lives there
that I've ever discovered despite the fact that everybody wanted to preserve the pink house Right. Okay. So, do you think we should be asking to just clarify like those two and make no make them the less dense?
I it if it it the source is two things. The source is the data from that's input by the state and how that is screened. you know, what kind of algorithm is laid
on top of that by either the state themselves and or the local um regional planning board and depending who did what that's how it originates. So, you would have to have them change,
right? You know, basically change the screening filter. And I I think I think they can do that with with hopefully not too much effort because I mean if somebody in town picks this up and flips to this map and sees the south end of Plum Island with with
that they're going to be like do you guys even know what you're know what I mean? Like yeah great just take the refuge boundary and make everything below it. I mean that, you know, like even just something like that as like a as like a easy fix, you know.
Um I I agree with you. The stuff to the to the east of 1A, like it seems crazy that I mean it should almost be cut, you know, closer back. I mean, yeah, you got a lot of houses along 1A, but they sure don't go into all the marsh that Green Belt owns or
all the marsh that the Feds own or, you know, um so I just feel like with a little effort they could kind of correct some of it. Yeah. And I also think they can put like a small disclaimer that explains why
like polygons were selected based on you know whatever whatever the reason is that this is all looking this way. I think they can just put a little note. I think the disclaimer note is a good idea and I think that adding the source so that people don't think that like
this group put this together. So I think that let's just add a source as well on all of the maps. So like where the basis of the data comes from. Even like I get that Marc Valley put it together, but what was there a data source? Okay,
that's a good idea, too. Well, I'm sorry to sorry to have started a hair, but this is is the one map that I would frankly um suppress because I don't think it tells you anything
useful. And if we can't change it, then let's not use it would be my suggestion. Yeah, I I definitely wanna like see at least I'll talk to Sophie and see if you know Yeah,
maybe get some some some of the backstory on this map and maybe if we can, you know, change it up a bit, I think it would be really good to have in the plan. So, if it's not too much effort on their part, I'll definitely It could be. Do we have Go ahead, Sean.
I'm sorry. Uh, do do we have a map that's representative that they could maybe, you know, use as a a template for, you know what I'm saying? Do we have a map that uh outlines population in a reasonable way that they can look at?
Because it it may just be that they need to adjust the way the the key is set up. You know, they might be using the wrong ranges or something. Who knows? But I I'm not 100% sure, but I can also look at other like population maps in other
towns and see if like I can find one that makes more sense and be like, can we do it like this instead? Well, I think okay, the shortest route to this, I think, is probably to talk to
what's his name? Steve who's head of the GIS operations at MVPC because that's where this comes from. So I ask him tell him I mean tell him it's you know or I will that nicely it's
a piece of nonsense and how come it works that way? Yeah. I think Satie and I will keep notes on all these and we'll we'll have a meeting with Steve and Sophie and just Right. I was just I'm sorry I did interrupt. I was just
wondering I don't want to make a big deal out of it. I was just wondering if uh you know if maybe in one of the planning documents or uh the older open space report if we had a populationbased map
already that's out of date maybe or or something but something that we could just say hey this is what we're looking for something like that. But is anyone aware that I've seen one, but um it's you know I'll definitely look through things that we
have. I think that's a good idea. Sean, the only other source I can think of that but I don't know whether it gets into maps is what's known as the American Community Survey which is a function of the census of the national
the federal census because I've just recently come across some interesting data from that. Uh but that was entirely percentage. It wasn't graphic. Uh but that kind of thing for
example will tell you how many people between the ages of seven and 13 or whatever uh live in your community if you dig far enough. Whether they have maps to map them, I sort of doubt it. Um
anyway, um so I think maybe we should move on looking at the time. I just had I just had one one thought that could be a simple alternative to this. You know, we have two voting precincts in town. You could eliminate the three shade scaling and it could be precinct one and
precinct two with like the number or something like that. You know, I just give you a sense of like, you know, more than 50% of the population lives on this side of the town or more than 50% of the population lives on this side of the town and you can eliminate like the density, you know, aspect of it. That's
just a thought to kick around, you know. Um, yeah, that's a good idea, too. Um, I will mention that as well. Okay. All right. So, map three is the zoning
map. Um, I was hoping. So, I'll zoom in on the key real quick if people want to see what the key looks like. Um Kristen and I were talking and we
don't really love this because it's unclear, you know, if those are if that's like a hatched one, a hatched section. Um might ask to just make that a little bit clearer. Um
but other than that, I don't think I had anything any other comments on this map. Um yeah I think this is fine Z I mean we'll double check everything but it's you know the MVPC does our zoning maps any
already so it's you know the only thing which I think is missing from this because it isn't current is the designated overlay districts for the MBTA right
those are there those are the green ones David are they there underlying. Is that is that okay? All right. I just I told you I was red green color blind, didn't I? But they're not. Hard to see. Yeah.
Yeah. But wait a minute. Are they over in Biffield? Yes. Oh, yeah. Of course. One stupidly overlays the um uh the commercial. Yeah. it. Yeah, it's a complicated. It's
got some complicated aspects of that, right? That should be a green border, but I guess it doesn't sort of Okay. All right. Great. So, let's go on. Yeah, good with zoning map. Um, four is
soils. I do have some comments. Um, at least I had some things that, you know, lists how it needs to be shown. And so if you could zoom into the Yeah. legends that would help. Is that good? Yeah, that's good. Okay.
So, hydrographic features and I think this is what I think they pretty much have everything that um the workbook required like poorly drained soils, slow infiltration,
um well and excessively drained soils, um prime farmland. I think those were all specifically mentioned. So, yep, they are there. Those were all here on my list, too. Do we have any farmland of um state importance or local
importance in town? Yes, there are soils of local, state, and federal importance. And then there's even like well the local soils were like approved by the town a few years back.
Okay. Well, let's talk about adding that in there. I see we've got the prime farmland. I'm assuming that that's the federal prime farmland. So, do we need to add in the state and local? Do they have that data? Um I can inquire.
Uh, is it is it not do we think it's all just all farmland? Is that like dotted speckled? Well, let's just Yeah, we can ask them what they include in prime farmland, but Okay.
Um, yeah, they specifically call out the three different ones and I know that prime farmland is typically a federal designation. So, if it does include Yeah, I probably wouldn't. So, yeah, if we could just break it down, that would be great. But the other ones look um
Yeah, they look good. All the other categories that are that are listed. Not being able to confirm the locations on the map, but the like the categories all look good. Yeah. So, and is can you go over to the right
just plum island? I'm just or Yeah. Okay. So that's a different green than I I just was starting to think sand barrier beach island, you know, and soil type there versus the other green on the map. But I think Well, it looks the drainage. Yeah,
it looks like the green is the same, but this is this is like farmland, I guess. So it's got Yeah. Um it's like a combination of these two things. Got my understanding.
Yeah. Yeah. Is is the prime farmland only over well and excessively drained soils. Anyway, I guess um I'm not totally sure that that is the case, but it might be if we look at it in detail, but yeah, I think it looks good.
Okay. Any other comments on this one? I guess I I would just add that uh I think with all these maps, it's probably a good idea to have a little at least a paragraph that explains what you're seeing. Yeah.
So you don't have to go looking through the uh trying to figure it out with that index. Sometimes those Yeah. very difficult to read. Yeah. And like a little like caption underneath each one. Yeah. Yeah. That'll definitely be
Well, has anybody uh looked at how this topic was handled in the 2010? Yes. No. Um I haven't I've kind of just been going off the new workbook. Um
Well, okay. But wait, wait, wait. Um it wants a map, right? and it presumably wants some discussion of why they want the map. Yes. So the maps I, you know, I hear the comment about putting a paragraph on the
map that explains what it is, but these maps go with the plan and the plan describes what's on the map. It's like here, you know, as seen on map 4, X, Y, and Z. So they are companion maps to the document. Um, so
yeah, but wait, look, they haven't ch they haven't changed the whole structure of what they're requiring as I understand it. They've eliminated a bunch of things, streamline some stuff in terms of the state. But what I'm
suggesting here is look at what they currently require and they will probably require some kind of description of the maps you submit. And that description can most readily be found,
it seems to me, as a as a, you know, a place to start or a model in the 2010 plan because to best of my knowledge, most of Newbury is it was 25 years ago in terms of
things like soils. Uh, and I don't think we've learned a great deal more to change that. Yeah, we didn't they didn't highlight soils on the list of maps in the 2010 plan. It's got water resources and surficial geology. Uh there wasn't a
soils specific map it looks like. Um just in looking at the list in the appendix, right? So that might be a changed map for uh you know today uh that wasn't there back then.
It doesn't. There's no narrative that cover that. I can if you give me a second, I'll try to Yeah, sure. That would be great, Mike. I mean, I have the map pulled up uh so you can see what the old map looked like, but yeah, it actually doesn't. It's the closest one, but it actually
doesn't. It's a official geology map and it just, you know, talks about geology and it talks about sand and gravel deposits and till and bedrock and fine grain deposits and floodplane aluvium. So, um the the requirements this time are a little different. So, we can uh we can pull um this map is
in my section, so I'm happy to look, you know, when I'm drafting, I'm happy to dredge up uh what was listed on the other one and see if there's any relevant information we can transfer over. Thanks. And I think they did give us a surficial
geology map uh as well. Um, but that's not required this time. Um, yeah, it's not required. So, I was I actually took out of the section 4, you know, our old section 4 had some language that I did borrow from the um
actually from the master plan, but I took out the sections the sentences that dealt with geology other than like, you know, one or two highle things um just to provide a little bit more context. So, I agreed to not include the geology map.
Yeah, there's just a summary paragraph on soils in 2010 and then there's a table that lists the five primary soil types across town. That that's that was the extent back then. There's no map,
Mike. There's no map. I mean, based on the map label, I let me get to the end of the report here and see uh if it's in there. So, yeah. Do should we go Yeah.
on to the next one? Math five. Right. Sure. Um Yeah. Why don't we move on to the next whatever while Mike is is just searching just to
Okay. Sure. Um, the next one is water resources. And I can zoom in on the um the key. Okay. Okay. So, it in needs to include the watersheds, which looks like those are
on there. the surface waters, which looks like those are all there and broken down into good categories. Aquafer recharge areas. Yeah, it says aquafers, so I assume that that's
sufficient. It's these like lime green areas, I think. Yeah. Well, that's why the why the water protection district uh is there and okay.
Yeah, the one in the bifoot area is a bit different because there's no there's no uh real agreement as to whether there is a kind of aquifer under uh the area of Bfield West New
Georgetown. It's mostly the river as in the Parker. Uh okay. And then uh what else? And then the flood hazard areas are on there too, I would imagine.
Yes. Hazard zones. Okay. So the 100 and 500. Okay. Um and then the wetlands it has um various wetlands forested and nonforested.
Yeah. Again, I would be curious where the source of that if that's like the mass c um map, which I think is better, the the in the uh they recommended the NWI map, but I feel like the mass D one is probably better, and then national
hydrography data set is typically also far superior to the NWI map. So, um, yeah, I would just be curious again in terms of the source of where those wetland boundaries came from, but if they just came from MassGis
because they're DPS layers, that's fine. Okay, cool. Um, next map. There was no straight soils map. Um, just looked it was just the surficial
geology map. Oh, okay. Thanks, Mike. Um, all righty. Map six is unique features, which I think
I had wanted to. Yeah, I was talking earlier with Kristen. We were thinking it looks kind of a it's pretty busy. There's a lot going on. Um and
um we thought that the chapter lands and the open space could stick to the inventory of open space map because I
think that map already has like those on it anyway. So, um, yeah, that was a question I had just since we already have an open space map, why do we need to have the all the detail in the open space? Not that it
isn't unique and, you know, wonderful, but um, unique features. Yeah. I don't know if if they were thinking like it's important to see these labels um in the context like see
all these things like in the context of these lands like maybe that was why but I I don't know if that's super necessary but yeah I mean what do you guys think maybe it shouldn't be called unique features then and it should be more of
just like uh habitat you unique habitats in Newbury or just some other thing to focus it on the bio map layer that they're depicting in the natural heritage layers and stuff like that.
Unique features is kind of a weird title to me like yeah be like open all the open space and all the you know priority resource areas like to just call it unique features just seems like a weird title. Yeah, like calling it I mean I kind of like the section that it's in. It's in
the scenic resources and unique environment section. I don't know. Are we allowed to change the map name or maybe we put it in parenthesis underneath it underneath your title. It also doesn't have areas of critical environmental concern on this map which
is required. That's another thing that I want that I was Yeah, I agree. And I agree with taking off this chapter layers because I feel like that does make it a little busy. So, I'm I'm totally on board with what you guys recommended as taking off and then maybe
we see what it looks like and then we see what we think might be we might need to add. Okay. Do we have an idea of what unique features we want to highlight? Um because maybe
maybe just tell them, hey, uh do you have something that highlights these particular things in town? because I'm guessing that these maps are, you know, they're generated from a kind of a geological perspective where we
really are just talking about what our town is like and nothing about. The um the guide here says um to include on this particular map um scenic
landscapes, major characteristic or unusual geological features, cultural, archaeological and historic areas and unique environments. And under unique environments, they say areas of critical environmental p uh concern. Um,
priority habitats for rare species. Um, and then for scenic landscapes, it's like stream corridors, open meadows, hilltops, agricultural landscapes. Maybe that's why they put chapter lines. Um, scenic roads. Um, anything that makes your community
different than your neighbors. Um, that's rather too much stuff to have in a map, I think. But it is I think it's I think those are just you know those are all ideas. It's not you know Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. I hearing that list Satie I they're definitely things that I think should come off including chapter lands in particular and then they're definitely things that should go on if this if this is like cultural and
historical features. I mean, we have the, you know, route 1A should be labeled as the scenic byway. We should label the, you know, the greens that have, you know, the upper green and lower green. We could put as you're I think
suggesting Sean there there's sort of a hand selection that doesn't exist as a mass GIS layer but we among us can identify from the history of everyone who's lived here and from other plans we
have what those unique features are and get that information in a more handpicked way. Um, yeah. I mean, if I was reading this report, I' that's what I'd rather see. Yeah. You know, it's like this stuff's great
and all, but where are all the unique features? You know, where where are the fun places to go? Why do we have all this open space there? What's cool about it? That kind of thing. And I think that looking at it through the Oh, go ahead.
I think that also if we identify those areas like that's helping us look through what are our priorities like where are we headed in terms of our priorities like what are the properties that might help protect the scenic resources and unique environments that we have in the town. So being able to
call out those on a map will then also help us visually say okay where should some of our priorities be. So, I feel like this is might be a maybe we send all of our ideas of what needs to go on the unique habitats map. We send them all in an email to Satie and Satie, you
start collating them because I feel like everybody probably has a different set of things that they think are unique. Yeah. And I feel like unique features aren't going to just be in like a GIS database. Like that's it's more of a qualitative
data set I feel like. So, I think that's a really good idea. It I don't think there's any harm in having a second map, too. You know, like if you look at the 2010 map, it is cleaner only because it's not
showing the biomap habitat, you know, slashlines over everything. It breaks out all those unique features. does a lot of stuff with stars as like locators and things like that and and dots and different different things like that, but it I think feel like when you add
all the hash marks over everything, it like clouds the map up a little bit. And I mean if there's got to be a you know unique features one and two, I mean to make it more legible.
Yeah. like one is like NHSP biomap like designated and then one is like cultural and unusual geological features something like that. Yeah,
Mike, it sounds I feel like the map the old map has the whole has a whole list so we don't want to recreate the wheel. Um so let's at least add those back on. Okay. And it's just like in a really organized way. It's like you just put a dot on the
map with like letter A and you go down to the legend to see what letter A is. Okay. Have to cloud the map. Do you want me to share my screen so you can see what it looks like? Yes. I was going to say I haven't seen that in a minute. I
think you just have to make me a presenter. Oh yes. Um, I think you should be able to now be here coming up. So, um, I'll zoom out so you can see, but I feel like this is, you know, a pretty good one. You just put dots on
the maps of all the places and you number them. And then down here it gives you is the key that tells you what all those places are. Um, and there's critical, that's an interesting one, critical resource areas. And so maybe maybe we include that. But then there's
the scenic landscapes, historical and cultural locations. So, and it looks like Marramac Valley was part of this one, so they probably still have those features to add in there. Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.
I'll definitely refer to that map um when I reach out to Phil. Um yeah, and I think they have like protected open space on there, but I feel like those are the things we would turn off. The old one had the protected open space. It had chapter 61, but I
feel like we're or we've agreed to turn those off. Yeah. Yeah, especially because we're going to show it all again in section five. Like the map for section five like rehighlights all that stuff. So,
yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Um, okay. So, anything else about unique features map? Um, okay. Map. What's next?
Um, the inventory of open space I believe is next. I propose we don't talk about that one because we know we're working on it. We've, you know, Mike's done a lot of work and we'll keep working on it,
getting all the chapter lands, make sure they're updated and accurate and all the open space. Okay. Yeah. Is it map seven in the resilience the climate change section? No. Oh, yes. I have that one filed
separately because it was not from NPC. Let me find it. Yeah. Um I have the one that the ones that Ellis submitted. Is that what you mean, Jim? I I'm not even sure. I um I just see I'm
looking at the the workbook which you know after the scenic resources section. Okay, gotcha. There's the climate change section and you know each there's always a mapping consideration paragraph and yes that's what I was looking
so Ella made some really great maps um for that section. Um and I think uh Sean I also have some maps from you so I'll show those as well. Um so this one is
um yeah these this is what they were asking for in the work the workbook um resilient resilient land and hotspots in particular. Right. Yeah. Zoom in a little the TNC uh tool. Yeah.
Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Right. So yeah, this is hotspots, open space and wreck areas. And then there's um docks on it as well. That's an awesome map. That's the This
is the first time I've seen it. I know Ella was working hard on this one. Yeah. Um Yeah. So, uh, I should mention, uh, when I was playing around with the Nature Conservancy viewer,
the the concept of hotspots is, uh, how should I say it? Uh, well, they actually mean heat as in hot. They don't mean environmentally
sensitive. Yeah, I'm going to say that. is what they're talking about, is it? I think it is. I think it's like like spots that experience high temperatures like physically hot.
Yeah. So, in fact, well, ju just to say, just in fact, if you do look at this on the TNC thing, uh the only thing that shows up is Nubber Port downtown because basically it's mostly building and
paving. And that's what we're t they're talking about. They're talking about imperous surfaces that reflect heat. That's that's that's what they're looking. That's what they're saying. Now, having said all that,
uh it's not clear that the guidelines are actually looking for that. And that's not what I saw in the uh uh the example we had uh from
uh somewhere out in the uh Maynard. Maynard. Yeah. they uh they seem to interpret hotspots as environmentally sensitive places like they got it confused with flooding areas or areas that erode stuff
like that. So, if you look at the red here, um I mean the the I think the when I started thinking about that, I I it occurred to me that Newbury doesn't
really have any hot spots. Um and Whoops. What do you mean my thinking? Well, there in other words, we don't have any spots in town that qualify as really hot areas
due to the fact that they reflect sunlight during hot days. Uh like a large parking lot, uh cities where there are no trees, things like that. When they say
hotspots, that's what they're talking about. If you look at like Boston or Quincy or one of these places, the whole place is red because there are and the only other everything else is like where there's a park or something like that.
So the the concept of hotspots is like reversed as far as we're concerned. But Sean, I'm puzzled by where on the map do you get any kind of definition or
description of hotspot? Uh say you want to show the one the one I provided I actually derived from the TNC viewer. Yes. Um, it's not as it's probably not as nice as that one, but there was very little to
show actually. Yeah. So, here's the one. I think that's the one. Is that the one that says Well, that you Well, well, that says hotspots flood. Right. Right. So the way this worked is they
actually I think are asking for several different things, but the in particular the TNC hotspots map. If you look on this, the only place that actually shows up as a hot spot is
way up at the top where Nigport is, it's that deep purple way up there. This right here. Yeah, that's it pretty much. and then maybe a little bit down below that. Everything else, those other purple
areas are not hotspots. They're actually Yeah, this says land trust. Yeah, those are just uh uh I'm not sure how those showed up on there, but basically
uh I don't know there I don't know where they get those from actually, but I tried to include areas that uh they do have uh I think it's uh it I think it also is flooding
and erosion areas and things like that. So there are overlays you can put on it, but basically if you just go to the TNC viewer and you look at Newbury, there's virtually nothing there. There's that purple thing at the very top.
Oh, and that's a um heat that's a temperature hot spot. So that's where the temperature gets really hot. Okay. Exactly. And it's and it's not due to uh like you would think you could see it's a little bit dark on the beach over on Plum Island, but
that's not really what they're talking about. So they've they kind of correct for that. Uh they're literally talking about places that are urban hotspots. We don't we don't really have any in Newbury since we're not urban.
Yeah. Well, it's not really a suitable map for us. I guess that's the point. So, I tried to make it a little more suitable by including uh you know uh I think I forget exactly what I did there, but it's in the description.
And yeah, so that's that's how I got that map. It's a little busy, but that's what you get when you go to that viewer. The other thing that's nice about this is uh I there's a reference to this. So if you
actually open this document up, you can click on that link, you can go to the viewer and you could play around with the map yourself. So if anyone was so inclined, they could do that. Um, so rather than having MVPC make these
static maps, this is an example of one where if you click on it and go to it and visit it, you can actually play around with it yourself. Okay. Uh, so what Okay. So,
uh, there certainly seems to be a more flexible, subtle tool. What are you suggesting that that this is the source of the map required in this section as opposed to the MVPC one which was the
one with the red stripe down the beach? Yes. Right. I think that's what suggesting Yeah. MVPC didn't make us any any climate change maps. Um but
yeah, go ahead, Sean. Uh if you if you look at other uh not uh there's only been the Maynard uh OSRP is the only one that was approved according to the new guidelines. But if you look at a few of the other ones uh
specifically if you get into urban areas like Salem or Beverly or something like that Gloucester, you'll start to see these hotspots pop up. uh that's actually what they're talking about when they're that's what they want to see on this and it's literally a TNC
hotspot requirement. So it's and like I said anyone can go to the TNC website, pull up, you know, put in a coordinate for Newbury. Actually, I think you just type in the zip code or something
and you see what you see. It's so I I I think it's as long as we have a map that says it's the Nature Conservancy and this is what they say we have for hotspots, then I think we're go golden. But I just added some stuff because it
really had nothing on it. Okay. So, reading the Okay. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I think we're getting a little lost in the weeds, but I understand that these weeds are
important. However, looking at the handbook itself, which I just pulled up cuz we all seem to be, you know, kind of under its umbrella or something. I see this wonderful sentence which says
hotspots are good places to locate new parks or think about the redevelopment of existing parks that include tree planting, spray park construction and other heat mitigation strategies. Another useful example is the city of
Medford's OSRP which included an appendix that evaluated their parks and open spaces based on how they could be leveraged to mitigate and minimize vulnerability to climate change by using nature-based
solutions. Um right this is a whole set of concerns which if you live in Medford are very real but if you live in Newbury are incredibly minimal. Right.
Right. It's it's just like I say it's just uh if you if you literally if you go to the TNC website say okay go to Newbury show me what's happening for hotspots. There's nothing there. Literally nothing.
Yeah. Uh, like I said, the only part you'd see is that purple little section up near Newbury Port. Makes sense. That's the urban area of, you know, it's it's a city. So, that's I think that means that we don't have to
include a map. You know, it only says to include the hotspot map if it's applicable to your community. Well, okay. So I would agree that that it is not applicable. But I would also say that
if if if the point of this is to and I thought we had mentioned this before as well. Uh, one of the concerns was that they would have a potential checklist that they'd be using to determine whether or not this would be a port a
report they could use in order to for us to, you know, submit this as support for a grant set. Uh, so I think that I mean the the the point here is for the town to identify
concerns we have about climate impacts. So we just need to say this like Newberry is blessed with a lot of u areas. We don't have any heat heat concerns at the moment. However, we have lots of flooding concerns. and then you
make a map that shows what our concerns are. So, it's I I do think it just specifically needs to in an image represent what the narrative is is saying about our climate resilience concerns.
Okay. So that's why I included uh the uh flooding and all that. But also there's another map as well that uh is uh the other required map uh which was uh forget exactly what it
was now off the top of my head. Well, we just showed the flood areas that um and 2% and 5%. Was it this one Sean that you meant? Yeah. Okay, there we are. Um,
and again this is derived directly from the source there. Um, basically you could see this is a prediction of what might happen as a result of uh well
this is okay. So this is a model of future climate impacts. I actually thought this is a pretty important map. It's probably more important than than the other one. But um all that gray area there basically is
saying you you know there's there's flooding in these here regions. Watch out. Um so and the and the narrative does uh I I think it goes over that. I mean here's the thing. I you know it's
supposed to be two pages too. So, I had to keep it down to I mean, you could go on about this stuff for for for days, but uh with two pages, you can only say so much. I will add that there were other sources that I used in the narrative um like the
hazard uh planning that was done. Uh that was pretty useful because uh first of all it shows that the town is interested in this sort of thing and secondly uh it highlights what the town itself sees as important which is exactly I
think what we need to put in here. uh but also some other sources that uh frankly I used to kind of illustrate how how uh how they don't actually apply. like one of them was FEMA uh the map the
FEMA map for this area uh was just you know again it's one of those things that the scale on it is so large that it you know a flood zone to FEMA is the entire eastern coast of Massachusetts
you know so uh that doesn't show up very well on a map of Newbury so to speak uh anyways uh they didn't seem to think we had a particularly uh
we we we don't have a uh how should I say it uh severe flooding uh of a scale like say and I think what they're this is what they're thinking of uh New Orleans uh in our area. Now, it's we we get
flooding all the time, but you know you know we're not going to the whole city isn't going to disappear because you know we get flooded. So, no, but we Yeah. But Sean, the thing is there are some as our resilience plan
for the town indicates there are some key aspects to flooding issues. Uh and how Okay. And what I was going to say is and part of them are the whole issue of the
east west connectivity which is somewhat problematic in Newbury because of the fact that we only have really two or three corridors. And so one of the reasons we got whatever it was over $300,000 to put a culvert in on Orchard
Street is because it's a vulnerable street. And in the same way, currently I'm in the process of trying to get the police department to acknowledge the fact that we should have some sort of warning on Newman Road that it now
regularly at high tide floods and this, you know, prevents. Okay. So, uh, uh, I would agree with all that and that's, uh, I was thinking about that as well, but I, but I started to say to myself, well, we're really talking about
open space and recreation. I didn't want to get too much into the planning and hazard hazard planning and all that stuff. Uh, yeah, that's important, but I think, uh, I think it should be, you know, it needs to go into somewhere else. Uh it's the
there there are going to be climate impacts on the area just as they're going to be common impacts on every area. But uh you know what we can do about them you know that's a different story.
uh and it's more I would say uh it's surprisingly what I came up with were you know fairly simple solutions things like you know don't build a big development in the middle of the marsh you know stuff like that uh you know so
uh take care of the marsh because the marsh actually absorbs a lot of water uh it provides it's kind of like a sponge for high tides etc. Uh so this is a good thing. Don't don't look at it as something that needs to be drained. For
example, uh I'm getting a little bit off. Uh yeah, the you know these things uh you know when you read the the section you'll see that's like there's one sentence that's about it. But uh you know grow
more trees uh etc etc etc. Uh there's so there's all that stuff as part of the uh uh the uh the text of the section. But yeah, well I think this is in particular. Yeah, it's a very complex area this and
I think we can only hope to at least be uh able to be a well show that we're aware of the fact that that is the case and that our community is vulnerable in a number of particular ways.
uh that we you know are aware of and I think that's part of our responsibility here. Can we move on to the next topic area? Sure. Um yeah and I I just um as we're
moving on while Sat's bringing that up but um just Sean thank you for this and I um I'd be happy to I'd be interested to set up a time to just talk with you more. I know a little bit about the MVP process which I know the workbook talks
about. Um and then just you know happy to review anything in more detail. Good. All right. All right. So this is the open space map and there is a version with lot numbers.
Um I think we had asked them to get rid of the lot numbers and then here's the key. Yeah, Sadie, I think uh the date I had after we went back and forth with them on that uh they gave us an updated
version on March 31st and I believe that had removed the um the map and lot numbers from it at that Oh, no. No, it didn't. It had them on it still. I think Go ahead. Yeah, this one this one says 320. So,
this might be out of date. I apologize if it is. Um, but it doesn't have the law numbers. The other one is identical. Um, yeah. So, so the one that was on uh like a couple days later because I went back and forth with Sophie. Sophia.
Yeah. Um because I had noticed a bunch of stuff missing and it was hard for me to like correlate to her what to add without the map and lot numbers. So, I had her put those on there so I could cross reference them with like parcels
that were missing. and she had done that. Um, okay. I just don't know that we received the next version without the map, like with the map and lots removed because we don't need to have them permanently on there. Um, right. Okay. So, maybe this is the one I should
be sharing, but it does have numbers. Yeah, I think that's the most updated one we we we got from them. Okay. But and I can definitely contact her and ask her to remove those again. Um so
minus any changes in chapter lands all permanently protected land I believe at that point in March or April you know um was update up to date at that point in time. So obviously six months have gone by, some things could have changed.
Um it would probably be more on the smaller end maybe either via the town or like a green belt, but I don't think they've expanded the refuge anymore since the pink house stuff that we added in there uh back in the spring. And um
from what I know with working alongside fish and wildlife, I'm pretty sure that the wildlife management areas are up to date as well uh in here. So this one's in good shape. I think so. Uh just bar barring those just couple quick changes. again
dropping the map and lots off there and then we can have a discussion about what we're looking at as a snapshot in time for the chapter lands, you know, because as more time goes on, then it's like, okay, now we need the next round and what what got added or what got, you
know, taken out of chapter and, you know, at at some point we just got to be like, all right, at this point in time, this was all land in the chapter 61 program. Um, yeah. I I thought that this map was the inventory of open space that we
skipped over before. Yes. This one is the It is. Okay. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So, some of Mr. Noise's comments about
historic or prevalent places in town, I think we'll see addressed in the unique features map that we were looking at before, especially if it's or one of one of maybe one of two maps, whichever, you know, has those tables
that Christina was was pointing out with, you know, starred features or whatever. I think a lot of those places that, uh, Mr. always wanted to see on like the recreational like opportunities map that we were creating, you know, I think it kind of gets handled on that unique features map.
Yes. Yeah, I think so. Okay, cool. So, I think this map is good. [Music] All the more
I think this is the last one, last map that we need to worry about. Um, so I will definitely get in touch with Sophia or Sophie and make those changes.
Um, the next thing I wanted to talk about was survey results which I think David you had done a good deal of analysis there. I couldn't share what you sent me
the um the first look survey results document or do you if you want to just talk about what what you thought. Uh are you talking to me? I'm sorry. Yeah. No, you're um I thought maybe
since you'd spent some time looking at those results, right, you wanted to talk about it a little bit? Uh I would like to Yes. Just briefly, um, I did send that out to everybody last week. Did you get it called first
look review of SRP survey responses? I did. Okay. Any every anybody else not get it? All right. Okay. because I as you probably all know because you got a
panicked email from me that my email got sort of how should we say uh confiscated by somebody. Anyway, um I think the broadly held concerns that um I find
to be pretty well um substantiated in the sense that one of the things I did um was to go through the list and where I could
identify people. I looked at people who I know either personally or you know sort of generally in terms of their role in the community and to see if you know what kinds of things they said not
because it's necessarily more important than what other people said but I think um if if a pattern emerges that's a little different from overall then maybe one wants to ask some other questions.
Okay. So out of this emerged a very to me a important and distressing fact that we only had response from a very
small handful of people who work as volunteers on talent boards and committees. Now um I think we need to remember that technically and it can be important.
This plan has to be reviewed and at least there is a potential for you know comment and request for change or whatever by if I'm right Kristen the select board the conservation commission
the planning board and the historical commission right is that um yeah I don't remember exactly but that sounds right yeah okay they have to review the final the draft plan before we finalize it. Right. The what? Sorry.
They're going to review the draft plan once it's prepared. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And and so also they will review the final copy too. Um because actually it has to be submitted
by the town and the select board actually has to authorize its submittal. Okay. Now the fact that only one member of the select board completed the uh survey
um I think no members of the conservation commission. Now that raised a second problem and that is I can't definitively say exactly how many did didn't whatever because
many people were anonymous which we allowed as an option also uh rather frustratingly as I said to Sadi when we talked about this where there were a number of very interesting
broad comments at the end of the survey and one in particular with some guy who was offering services of of of physical kinds. I can't remember exactly what unfortunately there was no name and no email. And so one of the things I think
we need to do in the future is to make sure to encourage people who are offering either help or comments or wanting to get involved reminders that please go back to the beginning and and
give us your details. Okay. However, given that that was unfortunate, what is also, I think, essentially very important is that all of the
members of those four boards or commissions should now be specifically requested to complete a survey. And it should be done in a way that's
has some pressure to it because I think the least they can do because they have volunteered to do what they do is to help us achieve what we need to achieve and what
they should have some interest in being a product that they can get behind. So I'd like your comments on that. How do we handle that? Do we do that? I
think my personal feeling is we must and do would it be like a sort of similar situation where it's anonymous or are you saying that we aren't offering that it would be anonymous?
Well, I think uh okay. Um, I put it this way. I personally think that they should put their name to it. I think also we might have to in a in a
note we send out say if you have already responded to this, but you did it anonymously, could you please, you know, cite your responses? I I just I'm sorry, but I I feel very
strongly about this because part of what happens time and time again in Newbury is we go through a great deal of work. the the kind of things we've been doing tonight and the work you've all been doing to lead up to this and then
nothing happens because there is there are too many people who just don't seem to feel that it's part of what they sort of around to do and there's no mechanism there's no levers given to a group like
this unless we have the involvement of those people at least least at a lip service kind of level. Could it could it be anonymous for the public facing results of it? Like, you know, we're only the ones that are privy
to knowing, you know, who said what. I mean, I I I could understand if a select board member didn't want like, hey, you know, X, Y, whatever, and then, you know, the other three or four are like, oh, yeah, but we're all in. Like, I can I can understand that, you know. Uh does
it but I mean to me is it more important that we just get five responsees from the select board than it is who responds with what? Yeah. And we want to encourage like I feel like not allowing it to be anonymous might
discourage people from saying how they really feel about something which is kind of what we want. But especially if they're an elected person, like I I get that, you know, I I do think we can definitely encourage encourage them to write names, but I
mean if someone is doesn't want to, we can't force them. Uh I feel like there could be two ways like people could respond like if they have an official duty they might respond to the answer to the questions in one way and if they are look like really speaking personally then they might
answer questions slightly different like I do feel like what you do for a job does not always completely align with your personal goals and so I think that you know I did the survey but you didn't see my name pop up because you know even though I did it so it didn't matter because it
was anonymous so I I didn't put it on there. Um, and I I don't know. I guess I have a little trouble with asking people to do that or even forcing them to do it. I would rather just go in kind of like we have and sit down at one of their meetings and say, "Okay, let's get some feedback." And then we document
that we've done that. Yeah, I agree with that too. And just to back out our support that uh I don't want to so the point of the survey is to really get a feel for what the town thinks about open space not about specific people on committees, elected
officials or whatever. Um and then making them put their name down will certainly create bias in some way or another. So and I think that gets away from the purpose. I mean I understand your point and I agree with you many parts of it about you know we want to
all this hard work we want to see action after this. I don't know if this is the tool or the place to be pushing them right now. I think the purpose of the survey is just to get information to fuel this this report and then take that next battle someplace else but maybe not
here in this uh you know in the survey we and kind of related to that we were I mean and I'm sorry if I missed this but summary summarizing the findings I mean Satie we had the you know the the
document right that took each question and But doing like more of a summary write up or something that you know we can be presented to each of say the the bodies mentioned in David's you know
that you're talking about the committees the select board etc like that would seem to me be be something that's effective uh because we talked about reporting out on the survey right so how are we it gets a bit into that
because I am also I'm also leaning towards saying having them publicly fill out the survey and put their names on there. I think that's dangerous territory a little bit. I I think we can kind of just really like push for them to put their name,
but obviously like you know there is the option to do it anonymously if someone wants to you know take Well, it's interesting isn't it that that would tell us something too. Um I think the well no but I think the the um
uh point that Christina made is rather important and that is that in their official capacity they might fill it out one way and in their unofficial capacity as as an anonymous person they might
fill it out very differently. Um unfortunately I think if that's so that's extremely sad but anyway um I would point to the fact that on public record because he did it one of the planning members who board members who I
will not name um very very articulately and considerable length has fingered us to be a um CPA group
that we are pressing for um community preservation act which of course we're not but um uh that seems to be and and he wasn't at all afraid of of of of publicly saying he was totally opposed
to that. So um you know there are people out there who have the um well whatever you know the sort of uh the courage behind their own thoughts and and opinions. Uh okay. Well, all
right. Let's do it and allow encourage people to identify themselves if they feel comfortable doing so or to um not do so. The main thing that I think
is problematic with that beyond obviously my personal views of of the situation is the fact that if you get something interesting, how the hell do you know who said it,
right? I Yeah. I I I think if someone I mean some people might just have forgotten to put their name, but I think if you know someone didn't put it then they were you know like choosing to stay
anonymous. Um and I I mean like the point of the survey was just to collect data. Um, we could have some sort of call for like, you know, like another public meeting or, you know, somewhere where we want people to
like get more involved. But I feel like the survey is kind of just like a very, you know, minimally invasive like here, tell us how you feel. You don't have to tell us who you are, like kind of thing. But I I mean, I think it would be cool to find out who those people were who had like especially someone who was like
offering to get involved. But um I think that's just the nature of a survey sometimes. But yeah, I think it's almost even more important to get the people who responded who aren't working in some capacity on behalf of the town because those folks are going
to get a shot at this. They are going to be able to review the draft. they are, you know, going to have like a little bit more access to us just by nature of what they do versus the public, which we just wanted to get their feedback because those are the people that we, you know, can't talk to all the people
in the whole town. So anyway, in my mind, it's more important to get their input versus the people that work for the town. Yeah, I would just add that uh the point of surveys is to get as many responses as possible.
um anything that you can do to increase the number of responses makes your survey data that much more reliable. Uh so unfortunately anonymity does increase
response usually. Um so I'm actually most people don't put anything for that stuff. I was kind of surprised to see as many people as there were who admitted who they were. Yeah. And if that's our goal, like finding a captive audience to get more
data, then I'm like I would agree with that. But I agree with the anonymity as well. Um we just want more responses. Great. Well, perhaps responses. Yeah. Yeah. Perhaps this will
will inadvertently put all of them if we do this. um in a situ an interesting bind and that is they identify themselves what are they saying and if they don't identify themselves are they going to get identified as not identifying
themselves but anyway right I mean that's okay I will having raised this I will volunteer to draft what would essentially be a an email request
which would well you will see what I'm going to do but essentially I think set out the reason for soliciting them directly and um leaving it pretty open as to how they
respond just essentially seeing how they respond to the the survey as it is and not even mention name or no name. Okay. Well, would that be a way to do this?
I think that's great. And then we can like vote on whether we want to send it or not at the next meeting. Right. Yes. Okay. Um I just frankly hope out of this might come a bit more
dialogue across a b a broader base of people who play important roles in the town. And I'm not trying to say that, you know, um, we have to ask daddy kind of thing, but if they're not on even
aware of what's going on and that they have a chance to to help and influence it, then it's that's kind of sad for me. Okay, let's let's move on. Can I I'm sorry. I'm just gonna say my
two cents. I love how everyone talks on this meeting, by the way. There's they're sewing means we're not everybody's talk. So, I really appreciate hearing from everybody. What if on behalf of the committee, I sent an email out to all the boards directly saying, "Hey, you heard about this at
town meeting. You saw all our public outreach. Last chance. We love that you're a volunteer already for the town. Last chance to give your input. Please reply by Friday." And the survey is officially closed because I'm wondering,
didn't we kind of close the survey already? So, this is just gonna like if we give this a whole another meeting to have another conversation about whether we send it or not. I'm just more sort of wondering if that slows down the process
of like analyzing the survey results and moving to the next phase. I like the idea of giving them one last chance directly. I can get all those emails through the town administrator of people who are serving actively on a committee
or board. One more request on behalf of all you get 20 you know hopefully 20 I don't know how many replies work them into the survey results and then we're really done the survey. Would that work? Can I
suggest one addition which is uh maybe you ask them to invite people to take the survey as well and make it available to everybody just in case because the point is we want to get more responses. So I mean right now we have about 10 and
something I guess. So if 20 people respond that's a lot. That's 20% of what we have already. That's a pretty significant response. So if we can draw it from the people who
and the other concern is uh okay so these are people who are already uh connected to town functions. It seems like we would have to open it to the public give them a chance as well you know because you know these guys are getting a second chance whereas the guy
that lives down the street didn't get you chances. You only got the one chance while it was up before. Yeah. Wait. I mean, the committee already closed the survey like we, you know. Yeah. Yeah. But this opening it up again specifically to
to poll people who are No, I'm sorry. I I think you're opening a can of worms if you do that. I think it's perfectly legitimate and reasonable to move to um reach out to those people who
ultimately bear by their volunteering a responsibility in the areas that we are committed and directed by the damn state for heaven's sake to actually involve in this. And if you
don't do it, if you don't, you know, you know that you you essentially have just kind of lay left it on the floor. Kristen, I'm okay with you sending that email out. Um, and I would suggest maybe we leave it open till Sunday night because some people might not get to it till the weekend. So, that's my only
suggestion. Yeah. I mean, obviously Monday morning, Sunday. Yeah. Obviously, you don't do it um in in a way that's um in in you know intrusive invasive
um and and you know I I despite my performance at this minute I think I can be in print you know I hopeful hopefully my wife is very good at this um she raised lots of money for years being very good at being very polite to people
and so I will essentially pass it through her and she will tell me you can't possibly send that out or no maybe that'll work. Anyway, let me let me have a go at drafting it. I will send it to
you all. So, I'm do not want anybody on the committee not to be aware of something. I'm not going to do it all by myself. I I want you all to feel comfortable that this is something that is worth doing because
I'm Kristen just offered to write it as well, like a just a quick email. So maybe you two could just coordinate and Kristen, as long as you send it, I'm good with it. Yeah. Yeah, I'm good with it. But I also have a comment on the results as well. I know that we're running out of time. Um so
when we get to other comments, I'll chime in. Okay. Is that an okay plan? Kristen and David will coordinate sending out um a request to boards and commissions.
Um okay, cool. So, Christian, what what was your comment against? I would vote against the if we're voting against against what? What? against uh against asking a
specific set of people to add to the data set. I there's a couple No no no no no no Sean this is not the thrust of this is not adding to the data set in as far as I'm concerned in in a
way that pushes the data set one way or another. This is um I don't know how can I put this? This is what I would consider to be essentially uh the broad aspects of community
responsibility. Bas basically in 2010 we wrote a whole plan. We gave it to the select board and the conservation commission and they told us they didn't want it. And so if we get that kind of response again today, that's a very telling thing. And
I think that might be a little bit at what the heart of what like David's trying to get at. Like if if if it seems like there's inner town support that just gives us that extra little oomph. But if it's not
right, I just want them to give us their raw unfiltered like I'm a resident in the town and here's what I want. I don't want them to give us their position as Yeah. Uh as their job, whatever their job is, this is survey, right? It's a citizen survey. Yeah. I don't
think we should blur the line there, but Yeah. Yeah. And so that's why I say uh we should either open it up for everybody or or just leave it the way it is. No, if we I'm sorry. That's we How do we If we do that, how do we do that?
Well, I I don't think that there probably isn't any way to prevent somebody from going and taking the survey. I mean, if it's if it's open, I I I think the way Google Forms works is you can open it up and then it it's like published again. So, like
anyone with the link can go and like take it again. So, like what what is it you're worried about? Why can't I I understand Sean's concern of like someone, you know, for some reason they they heard like after it closed
like, "Oh, there was a survey open. I really would have liked to, you know, get my input and then they find out, oh, it was open to just groups. Um, like that's that's all. Yes. But Satie, don't we all have to be to some degree grown-ups? And that is if
you missed it, you missed it. Yeah. Okay. So I mean the the again I just going to say I mean what we're what the ultimate effect is we're adding to the data set outside the the uh parameters
of our you know information gathering which we've already closed. So if we do that we really need to do it for the entire population just from a matter of scientific accuracy. You could look at it that way. The other thing that I
would say is that we're kind of at cross purposes here. If what we want to do is uh uh get people uh who are already in, you know, hold positions in the town to have more interest in open space, then I
think there are other and more creative ways we can do that. uh you know it could very well be also that these people have already submitted you know their responses anonymously uh so we don't have any proof for that
uh but I do like the idea of you know trying to uh encourage other people to provide their knowledge understanding expertise etc especially since they do see fit to volunteer that's a great idea Yeah, it's
just I I don't think it's worth uh I mean I I just don't think it's worth uh using the survey as the uh instrument to do that. I think there's probably more collegial
uh more uh I can't think of any on off the top of my head, but certainly a communication of some variety. you know, talking about what we're working on, how we could use their input. Uh we're looking for ideas, thoughts. Uh
that's sort of Sean what I was sorry for interrupting there or cutting it, but that's with like taking the summary finding of the survey that we have and having a one-pager or you know something that is succinct that can be shared amongst these different committees and
so on. um would seem like a way to say this was a citizen, you know, public input. We're sharing it out to you. Um do you have any reaction or something along those lines, which hopefully then, you know, we're we're leading towards
then, you know, giving an update on when the plan will be available and so on. It's a stepping stone, I guess, towards um to get them more involved and to, you know, not Mike, like you're saying, reject the plan or say no thanks, you
know. But anyway, that's where I'm at. I I like the idea of of doing whatever we can to get those results out there. I think that would go a long way towards convincing people that open space is
important in town and maybe it's you know maybe it's time to I don't I mean so far all we're doing is this report but I guess we're going to be moving more towards well I mean we have a lot of things in town that we should be paying attention
to which I guess we're not like for example the parking lot at uh Great Meadow farm, uh the uh state of the marsh loop trail, you know, things like this. Uh if we could just get this
survey and this report done, you know, we could really move more towards that stuff. Okay. So, uh let me then give this some more thought. I appreciate everybody's,
you know, reaction, suggestions. I think that maybe a middle way is a sort of combination of what uh Jim was just talking about maybe with some parts of
the survey. Uh, I'm thinking just off the top of my head that something along a a brief report of of um what's sort of coming back and um using part of the
survey perhaps to ask some specific questions. um largely because some of those questions do relate to the function that they've opted the role they've opted to volunteer you know to take on in the town just as
we have. Uh so let me give it some more thought and draft something and send it out to you. Um I I think you know I I don't want to muddle up where we are in terms of the um survey itself by I think
opening up again has all kinds of problems as to how we do that in terms of getting information to people particularly this time of year and and why are we doing it a number of of things there. Um
so uh that's where I think um we can sort of leave that. The only other thing I would point to is that on the uh little summary that I did um
send out. Um, I do think that we have a little fine-tuning of of of not just specifically the survey cuz we've done it, but also the kinds of questions that
we are asking people or the kinds of eventually um way we phrase um areas of interest and so on because I noticed that some of the things in The
list of activities for example um promoted very considerable response and others um I think were partly perhaps even misinterpreted. Uh I think there's a whole issue here
between and we need to I think about this the difference between recreation and organized sports and how those words are used in government and and in documents
and in in people's lives because it's pretty clear that a significant slightly significant majority of People who responded to the survey who may have their own biases in terms
of kinds of groups they are do not want to see an increase in formal recreational sports. But they all do, a significant number of them do want to see more attention and
more I think frankly town resources meaning among other things dollars spent on the whole business of protecting land but also taking care of what we have. Um, and
this seems to be, by the way, a theme which is emerging in other open space plans because I've been looking at some of them that were in the list that Jim found and sent around to us, the list um
of uh, you know, recent ones. And that seems to be an increasing theme that when as a very broadly as a community in the state and perhaps in the northeast are not taking enough care of sort of
our own backyard um and and and looking after what we've got and and making sure that we have the kind of opportunities we we need to have. Um, I also think we do have a
little problem of the fact that there's a little bit of age bias that seems to be operating here. And I think uh people of the sort of over 50 age, over 60 age have a little more sway
in this um than other people. Uh and the obvious thing that's it's well it's missing because we perhaps couldn't identify it is we really don't know what the interesting age group between like
14 15 and 20 something think particularly it's it's fairly obvious that we had a fairly heavy input of uh two well I would say you know two parent two kid homes
Um, but we need I think to find ways of identifying those kind of populations a little better in the future. So that's it. Anything else at this point? Not from me anyway. Anybody else have
something to report on or want to bring up? Nobody. Okay. I guess I um I [Music] received
some sections which thank you to those of you who sent me things. Um if you haven't yet, that's okay. But um I thought we should talk about like um our timeline a little bit and like
sort of re-evaluate what like set some goals maybe for having a sort of draft done. Um, does anyone have any any thoughts about like where they are and how much time you want to spend on your
section or anything like that? Um, go ahead. Go ahead, Jim. You can start if you like. Okay. Nope. Sorry, Mike. No, no, no, no. Yeah. No, I mean I definitely section three uh community setting. Um like I definitely need some more time there. I
do need to meet with you and Kristen I guess you just to cuz they really are saying in the new this new version you know two to three pages for that section versus the 20 some odd pages last time. So uh when it and then that you know in
the workbook it some of there's it's hard to sometimes get a handle on exactly what they want there. So I think how we talk about like say zoning came up, we had the zoning map, you know, like how does that even get discussed rather than just putting a map without
I'm not I have questions for you guys because I'm just not familiar with some of that and you know if I refer to the master plan from two years ago, you know, it says go ahead and copy from there. Well, there's a lot you could copy. And I think you guys would probably have
a much more direct uh sense of, you know, what could go in, you know, sort of keeping in mind this is about open space and recreation. So, um I will reach out to you and I guess set something up in the next two weeks. In terms of time frame, I would say
probably uh you know, I would think sometime having a draft sometime uh I'll say midocctober. I know that probably is later than we were hoping, but that's so early to mid-occtober. I guess I would commit to for mine. Yeah, I think that's, you know,
reasonable. I um yeah, I think David and I still have lots to do with, you know, survey data and things like that. Um and like we've talked about. Um, and
I would like to, yeah, go through what I've received so far with the people that sent them. And, um, yeah, and yeah, I want, you know, if you want to talk to us about your section, then I want to
definitely make time for that as well, like work together on it. Um, so yeah. Um, I mean that seems like a good idea to me is I don't know when you guys started planning for the next meeting, but
if you know finding an hour for each of your bucket of work to come in and talk with SD me or Zoom, whatever, and just like go through it all and just push forward on any questions we have and put our heads together and then bring it
back to the full committee. Um, that seems like a pretty productive way to do it. I Satie and I are here all the time, but we are like pulled in eight million directions all the time. So, I'm always up for like just scheduling meeting,
focusing on what it is, and then, you know, you can carry on with email. Yeah, that's a good idea. Um, does that sound like doable? Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Bill. No, I was going to say that sounds really good if you guys are willing to give us I mean that's a lot
of time to meet with all of us individually. Um but that'd be really helpful. We can you know forward you um a rough draft or something pri prior so you can skim it so when we come it'll be a little bit more productive and yeah I mean that's that's that'd be great and then you can also like
formatting and all that stuff that'll get all worked out in the end. Um but yeah that'd be helpful. Yeah. Yeah. We have the same section. Sorry. Yeah. I mean, we have like seven
subsections. Section four is like pretty technical and dense and there's seven subsection subsections and they recommended it being five pages. So, we're like, "All right, well, if we just make every section one page, then fine. It's seven pages. It's no problem, right? It's just like we're trying to keep it reasonable, but that does pair
down a lot." So, we're taking like master plan. We've made good progress on like two of those seven. Actually, I don't think we're even in charge of the seventh section. I think we're only in charge of the first six. Um, and so we have taken master plan language and then we just cut out everything that's not we end up
with just a couple sentences cuz that's all we need. So we don't have to reinvent the wheel. But actually, Satie, I would love it if you could send me that soils map because I think that that might also simplify things for the soil section as well, just so I can refresh my memory there. So yeah.
Okay, I will do that. Thanks. But yeah, sounds good. Schedule time. Yeah, and I can reach out um sometime this week to talk, you know, about how people are feeling and if we want to schedule something or wait a little bit to get more work done on the sections.
So, I'll do that this week. Um or you guys just contact us or that works and then uh yes, I mean I know we talked to a lot of you. We talked to all of you, but anyway, I think that
would work. Um, and I do think it would be uh something Satie and I have talked about is just kind of sketching out like now through December or whatever, right? Like just a little bit more of a overall s uh, you know, project management
guide. Well, does might I suggest that? Uh, okay. As I understand it, everybody except me has a specific section or or task covering sections of
of the plan. Am I right? Yes. I'm happy to give you one of the subsections in section four if you'd like. So, we don't have No, no. I'm I'm not volunteering for anything. No, what I was going to say is that um
too late. Does it make sense to essentially make sure that in the next what three plus weeks um everybody gets a chance to meet as
they need to or not with Sadi and or Kristen and to essentially um you know assess where they are and what they need to do
so that we can have as a group some idea of whether we you know what our schedule realistically can be. um uh because at this point um what I'm wondering is you
know this kind of process is okay but as I think well I don't say sense you know singling out people I think Jim and Christina know particularly that the documents written by committees often
read that way um and someone is going to have to or some couple of people are going to have to edit this and make it, you know, sort of work as as as a a document that has some sort of flow. Um, and yeah, Bill was mentioning earlier that
like that's just going to have to come later. Yeah. Yeah. It is. It is. But my sense is we don't do we have a process sort of identified and tied to dates or not to have the building blocks for that.
uh because you know I I would point out tonight we had a a very here we are it's 9:00 and I don't have any problem with that but u we had a very long discussion on maps which in some ways is very
difficult to do from my perspective productively um online when you're looking at stuff where the level of detail and and you know etc and one's ability to move around in it because there's only one person who's
got the you know the handle on the uh controls. Um and I would hope that we can't we don't need to do that too often. Um just just you know so what am I saying?
I'm saying okay here we have as usual on the agenda when is our next meeting? Well, my question would be is when is our next productive meeting, right?
I thought that this was a super productive way. I thought we got so much done on this meeting. I was like, "This is the best. Everyone's looking at the same thing." So, anyway, I'm happy to stick with our schedule. I will say that Bill and I are on vacation um the second half of September. So, I know we usually meet the third Tuesday of the month and
I think that we're probably not here. I guess I'd have to count it out. One, two, three, or maybe four. Oh, there's five of them. So, anyway, when do you get back, you guys? You're back on the 1 of October. I was going to say maybe we could just
wait till next month to have another meeting. How about the 7th? October 7th. That gives us about a month plus. And that that way we can really, you know, get a lot done individually. Yeah. Um
I mean, especially if you want to try to meet with those of us that are in full-time jobs, you know, it's going to be a Tuesday. There's only so many Tuesday nights that we're going to be sitting up on your schedule. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And it's only if you need to meet.
I We don't have to meet without Yeah. You're feeling good. You've already done a lot, Mike, on, you know, a lot of your sections. We can email. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I have some questions and I could use some guidance on on what's remaining there. Um, which I was actually thinking about talking to David
about um at some point if you you know if you were if you were looking for something to um yeah, it's not a heavy lift. I just have, you know, your planning board experience in the past. obviously Kristen's current planning board experience, but uh any
town properties where any sort of grant funding was was used. Like I have I have no concept if like the town's ever done grant funding for the Great Meadow or you know what what they did for um uh Manter Fields, you know, like the those
kind of little details that I just I don't even know where to begin looking for uh to find that information for the town own stuff that's left in my in my section. that that's kind of like all I have left to do in there, right? No. Well, that's that's the kind of stuff we need to get nailed down in
terms of things that are applied to Well, it comes back to what I was just saying earlier. We need to know as much as we can about the resources we have and the resources we need to look after those, right? Yeah. I mean,
Martha's also a good resource for stuff like that. Yeah, that's that's a good call. Yeah, I wasn't sure what she was connect. Okay, sounds good. Yeah. Okay, so are we ready to adjourn, I think. So, so just to be clear, our next
meeting is going to be October 7th at the usual time 7 o'clock Zoom in person. Do people have preference? Well, what I was wondering is is it possible I don't know and this is something I can
do offline later, but I was just wondering whether it's possible to meet in person to do it using the big board in the meeting room, but also to have access to that data on our own computers. Do you see what I mean?
Like the maps. The maps. Yeah. like the maps or like somebody's paragraph or whatever it is because one of the ways you can do that is you can move around in something that you know what I'm saying? I I don't
know whether how technically possible that is but I'm more than willing to sort of see if we can explore that because I think it's it's useful. Um yeah, you know, I just found a couple of times when we were just just like discussing,
you know, the subtleties of hot zones, um it it just it didn't make much sense because I couldn't, you know, even on a fairly large size monitor here, um I I really couldn't see what was there and I
couldn't blow it up because Satie or somebody else I think that Satie, can you just send about the revised versions once you get them from Marramac Valley after you incorporate the comments you can send them out to us or should you do you want to send them out and get our comments after we all get to look at them
individually which would I guess uh it's up to you guys if if you want to take a closer look at them on your own sounds like that's what you're interested in doing um maybe next week you guys could you know send some more
comments and then I could um yeah I think If if we're going to be using as we are that kind of graphic data to be major vehicles for part of the plan and how we
you know um explain our community etc etc then I think um yes the the more we're able to see those and perhaps play with them ourselves um if we want to do
that the better. Um because some of the ones that came up tonight I had seen before in broad terms. Others um I hadn't seen um and um I'm a bit of
a well okay sort of All right. So Satie's gonna post them. Everybody can look at them. Give us a deadline for giving you comments next week. Sorry. How about Monday? Monday. I think you can do it this week
and then Yeah. If I don't hear by Monday, I'll assume you're good with all the maps. Yep. Sure. That would be great. Yep. Okay. All right. So, somebody move to adjourn. Oh, well, Bill
like to move to adjourn, please. And a second. Seconded. Okay. So, the meeting is adjourned. If everybody is in favor. Everybody is in favor. Yes. Yes.
I know. I know Christina is. Okay. Fairly productive though. Thanks everyone. Thank you. Thank you for hanging in there everybody.