and accordance with chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 which extends the governor's March 12th 2020 quote order suspending certain Provisions in the open meeting La GLC 3A
paragraph 20 until March 31 2025 the end of this month that is this public meeting is being conducted remotely it will be recorded and a recording will be found on the Newbury
access YouTube channel so um I will call all meeting to order and ask you please to answer when
I call your name okay so Christina Hoffman yes here and Sean hello hi I'm here and Mike here and my and Jim there
in the middle okay and David PO is me um and uh also with us are sad are um guide and
intern and Christen grubs who is the town planner for Newbury um so uh I don't think there are any citizen queries unless we've had some by
email have we zie I haven't gotten anything okay all right so I think we can take that as red okay um so so
uh how do you want to do this um I would suggest uh since s is being the source of our materials um that if you're prepared to you would simply walk us through uh the
material that we have and we'll see how we react to it okay that sounds good I think that's a good system um so does everyone got the um or
Christina you sent the email to all of us with the revised version of the survey correct so um bill and I reviewed and we provided some comments but we only sent them to stie and Kristen because I never am sure quite sure if I'm allowed to
send it to everybody so we had some suggested revisions um to kind of standardize and let folks rate uh some of the answers and so we sort of reframed some questions but just for consideration I thought it was you know a great there was all the content was
there so um it was a great start by David so thank you again David for putting that together okay just as a point of information you can share information with all of us but you cannot share your
opinion about it in other words you can't endorse it because we're not supposed to make offline as in uh you know private meetings uh but you can share
information so I in fact sent out the revised version of the questionnaire to you all uh without any more comment except the ones that I said thatc I was revising it okay so just for your
information that's there are some people who get nji about it and say you can't talk to anybody else on the committee and that's not the case Okay okay so um maybe I can share the my
screen of share the survey draft and we can just go through it all together does that sound okay with everyone yeah sounds good and I mean there's the options for the view if if you're looking at the word version to um
you know you can turn off track changes and just have a clean version that might be an easier one to review okay but you know maybe we go through and see if other folks had comments as well okay yeah let me see if I can even get this to work so Christina
are you saying that what you and Bill sent to Kristen and STI is in the is track in changes or is a separate survey Doc it's tracked and changes okay but I think we're reviewing it right now with track changes turned off but there are
if you wanted to see it we could yeah no I just wanted to make sure I might have missed it that it was part of the one that was sent out as opposed to a completely different document oh yeah nope nope it was yep same document
great okay so um I thought um I don't know if you guys saw the um 2000 survey that I sent from the 2000 plan um but they had this nice little blurb at the top um that kind of
described what open space actually is and um recreational land and stuff like that I thought it' be nice to include a little blur maybe the same one um just defining open space I think that would clarify things for people who have questions um and then does anyone have
any thoughts about question one I guess I I I might just quickly say not to bring us back to what the intro paragraph is but um you know we're open space committee um we're talk and the the contribution that open spaces and
recreation resources plays I I it plays into the first question in the sense that we are also covering Recreation including active Recreation right which the rec committee um is part of I didn't know if we need
to address that not worry about it but I just am calling out that you know because one of my um thoughts around the first question was at the very least kind of maybe grouping things um and I realize this is
a draft that just is meant to get a list of everything but kind of categorizing or grouping in a way that might be a little more um you know when someone is like yeah we go to Central Street to the fields and use you know for active Recreation right and have those there
kind of all together um whether that means they just check that whole category or we want to get down to the granular level here um that was sort of where I was headed with thinking about that first question and how it also related to in general you know the scope
of what we're covering right okay I think B so are you suggesting that we revise that opening paragraph to acknowledge that in addition to Open Spaces recreational activities are included due to the Open Spaces
committee's like intent to update the town of Newbury open spacing Recreation plan do you want to add well I don't know I mean I you know yeah and you're asking right question like how far do we take it do we even need to care right um I just didn't know if we were going to step on
you know sort of like the wck the rec committee step on their toes by putting in you know well we're covering recck resources and then in question one we're getting right into a bunch of you know things that are kind of in their domain as well as ours so um I you know we may
not have to do anything in the first paragraph but I think we should just maybe we do I don't know you know but I well okay if I can suggest we are actually going to meet with the um
Recreation committee next week and um I I think one of the thoughts that I would have in this regard is um they may have a current or recent survey of their
own which we can find out about but I would be a little worried about sending out too many surveys okay um and I would hope that
what we might be able to do is in fact um run this past past them next week after our meeting tonight and see whether they have specific concerns which aren't in any way reflected
here if makes any sense to people it seems to me to run at least give them a heads up whether you right I think if we start to ask them to review the draft just like we were reviewing
right now we might get kind of stuck in well they actually have already seen the original Draft before I started messing around with it um and did have some reactions but um which were not specific
to to our questions okay um I had some thoughts about this question um so would it would it be a possibility
that we just don't list any options for people to check off and we just let people come up with the response on their own that might kind of take away the yep the conflict the potential conflict there um yeah maybe just uh
maybe just have like two or three examples you know at the end of the question just to guide the person answering you know maybe like one form of each maybe something passive maybe something active yeah right you know to let them kind of know like the like the full breath that they could kind of
answer that with yeah um and also I think that the wording of what do you or your family currently or would like to participate in I think those are maybe two separate questions
and I think we should decide if we want to hear about what people are doing now and then make it a separate question what they would like to be able to do or start doing um I think that's a great idea okay yeah
I was trying to limit the number of questions we asked I think by putting that in that way yes I understand right I think that makes sense because it's it is kind
of keeping an eye on the prize here of like gathering information which will help with developing the action plan I do think those the distinction of what people currently do and what they might like to do could really drive like a
direction right like oh well we have a ton of people who like dog walking and we've got lots of good places for dog walking but we also have a ton of people who would really like to go skateboarding and there's nowhere to skateboard so that that feels like
they're different the the information being pulled um seems distinct so I I like that approach okay all right yeah um I'm sorry it's Sean here uh going back to the
introductory paragraph can can everybody hear me my voice is a little yep yeah okay um the Open Spaces issue maybe we could just reward that to say Open Spaces such as Recreation areas and there's actually a list of them in here
already uh historic districts open Landscapes Etc um something like that would would cover it without limiting it to Recreation so reasonable you're saying for the introductory paragraph to just
say Open Spaces such as right instead of defining it you mean right just list to and say Etc because you're going to cover it in this in the survey later anyways I so
say sorry uh so I would say something like Recreation areas and Civic spaces Etc yeah I was gonna say I I kind of like that approach a little because I like question 10
but I I got kind of stuck on that one when I was reviewing this like I wanted to word it differently or kind of have that information presented in a different different way almost and I I just couldn't kind of find a final resolution in my mind for like why I was
just getting hung up on on that one but like what Sean just suggested is kind of taking question 10 and you know morphing it into a little bit of the introductory paragraph I get I I Mike I had the same reaction with 10 also sort of and I
guess I wonder if though should we in the intro not to overload it and cover everything but if you're G to go right into what activities you're talking about if people forget I guess they could come back like I didn't think
about the beaches right like not that or I didn't think about you know um well yeah that's something that we don't list out I I I guess you know I love go ahead David I was gonna suggest that
um my original idea opening with opening with this question as I was saying to S early today is to get people to thinking straight away about what they actually
do or don't do as the case may be because I think that then they begin to understand the scope of open space and Recreation okay and I would suggest that
we go back to the idea of having some examples and if the examples are well enough chosen and there are maybe not just two but three or four then you can get into the
sort of broad scope of activities from you know visiting the beach to walking in the park um uh and not have an exhaustive list the exhaustive list essentially came you know from from
other external sources and I just used it at the time as a prompt for this kind of discussion so what I'm suggesting is that we do perhaps re well first thing I should say simply is that this draft
doesn't take into account any sort of General introduction it wasn't intended to uh in full scope because I don't know that we actually at this point know what we want to say about why we're sending
this to you or how you're getting it or whatever it may be um so then moving on to question one um that's why I felt it should happen that way and I was hoping
to move people to a specific connection to their own activities so they begin to think in terms of how they use stuff and what they think about it rather than asking
a initial rather vague question like do you think we should have a lot of open space which maybe later on you can after you've talked about what open space is and how it serves so that just an idea
uh but I think this since this is the opening question is very important it gets drafted the right way so it starts people off on the right kind of foot yeah I remember David you saying that um
that that was your driver for listing all of these things was to get people thinking about what they do because they might not be able to come up with it on it their own so I actually like leaving the list here in question one and leaving the other please specify as many
as you want and they can list any other things that they would want to we kind of also have a little bit of standardization that we could do where it's like oh we have like hundreds of people people that play soccer and we had you know zero people who responded that mountain bike um so anyway it also
helps to tally up some results to actually have some have both The Best of Both Worlds list them off and then let them tell us what else they want to do but I also agree with making it into like repeating the question maybe re re repeat it so that
we get what do you do and then the second is what would you like to do and then we leave that one open-ended and they can just answer what do they like to do that maybe on this list because we already gave them a list to think about the other thing I just noticed isn't on here and I it may be because I did maybe
tweak something once again is I have on my latest version or after other outdoor act well okay yeah it's not quite this after picnicking I have other outdoor
activities and then organize team sport not listed okay in order to do what um Jim raised partly is is for us not to be appeared
to be surveying what Recreation guys are responsible for and also to indicate to people that that really isn't a concern of this
this questionnaire it really isn't uh I I think in many ways because it is a recreation committee issue and they are going to have a whole section of the final plan
anyway yeah we just we had proposed to just simplify that by saying other like let them tell us what else they want to do and out like the multiple other Recreation other Rec you know outdoor activities and we just simplified it to
other right okay okay um by the I'm not I'm not S I mean I like the idea of this big list I when I was going through it I came up with about 20 other things that could go on
the list I think we could have a unfortunately it's one of those things where you could just you know could be a 20page survey and all you've done is map out all the recreational activities uh the reason I like question 10 is it because it gets people to think about
open space from a different perspective maybe for some people for example who don't do a lot of jogging or whatever uh their definition may just be looking out the back window and seeing a nice forest or uh or out on Plum Island just having
this Wide Open Sky overhead with the beautiful sunshine uh that sort of thing uh nothing to do with activity at all just but nevertheless important in terms of open space because you know uh built up buildings
take away from Skylight uh uh putting in a development in a large farm you know kind of wipes out that beautiful Farm you were looking out over you know over your breakfast nook uh that sort of thing uh yeah maybe
we add in a new item I love that it's like enjoying the scenery as like an which kind of covers all those things definitely I came up with a couple of things that are like uh well two things
that's sort of struck me uh well three actually uh one thing is uh I noticed that horse riding is particularly uh important over here in Byfield that's probably going to end up on the list somehow uh I know that because I could
see horse hoves out on the trails now uh so they're using it for that purpose so I would add that another is uh just something like nature photography um stargazing things like that where you
know it's like you need you need a wide openen swath of Sky to be able to look at you know the planets that are arranging themselves out there uh but I think think the list unfortunately is already too long and I wouldn't I didn't really want to add a
whole lot but I kept thinking well you know where's the ice skating where's the sledding where's you know all the stuff you do in the winter and the other thing uh that kind of stuck out is a and this probably a tricky issue but I'll bring
it up is uh what about motorized uh activities like snowmobiles things like that absolutely not okay okay so but this is I'm just saying it's something somebody might consider
an activity you know that they would do in an open space that was in town now maybe they're not allowed to do that that's fine but in terms of no I I'm sorry for that reaction but I think we need to to steer clear
of that kind of contentious uh thing which is really not I mean and there all of the Open Spaces that we have which are under preservation or conservation restrict
any kind of motorized vehicles and so that's why I my reaction is the way it is anyway sorry Sean no that's okay I I I I share your sentiment but I'm just uh
pointing out that the nature of open space is that it is open uh when you're talking about Farmland you know it would not surprise me to see one of more tractors out there going up and down and uh people walking back and forth and
so on and I'm sure there are people who AB but those areas that take advantage of the fact that they have this great big field right next to their house and uh they're going out there and just you know enjoying that big open space when it's in the middle of winter or
something or even in the summer you know just who knows I mean if I lived near uh K I'd be very happy to see all those sunflowers out there it'd be a nice thing to see out my window um that
sort of thing I guess um yeah I guess what I'm saying is I'm trying to elicit from people just about anything that they would anticipate uh having open
space is a good you know uh um let me reord this uh what is it about open space in town that you like so that we can somehow come up with a plan that suits those that
desire uh now we've got Recreation I understand that's an important part here but I could see what that would quickly take over because there are a lot of recreation options out there and we don't talk about things like well just
the fact that uh uh some of these large sections of town are just simply left as natural habitat um that actually is something that was noted in one of the previous
surveys I can't remember which one I think it was the 2000 one that talked extensively about um especially Scotland Road where they were saying hey look we just put almost the entirety of Scotland Road under a press
here so you don't have to worry about a mall going in there you know that sort of thing uh yeah so there's a question later in the survey that actually does cover that and um bill and I put in some suggestions to capture just the essence of what you're you're
proposing so maybe maybe we add a few more things I like the things that you've added maybe we add a few more things to question one as options and then we'll let if somebody wants to type in snowmobiling as their other option they can do that and maybe we move on to question two maybe we repeat each
question stie back to your thing I think we should make this into two questions and the second one we just won't put the list yeah and you know if if we're worried about the length of it you know we we could lump a few things together you know you could do organize you could have a line that just said organize
Sports please specify you know uh that covers kind of baseball basketball pickle ball softball you know kind of all that type of stuff you know and uh you water activities that covers you know swimming boating um something else snow Sports you know if we want to kind
of condense that list a little bit I like that yeah good idea my suggestion would be to have the Youth Sports again not because we're focusing on active Recreation particularly team sports we already talked about it but
put the youth sports together and I would probably include lacrosse and football not to lengthen the list but those are known youth sports teams programs that um use like Central Street um so maybe uh that's just one more
thing yeah they would I think come under uh organized team sports and I think the suggestion that Mike just made is y the police specify idea and and we could use that in other ways I think the issue
here is simply is that if we if we get into listing we can probably spend all night honing a list that we feel sort
of uh directs people in into thinking about what they do and what's possible and so on whereas i i i in some ways think perhaps if we can do it on the basis of
suggesting things which get people thinking and then leave lots of space for for adding right um that's that's perhaps the best way to do it uh so then maybe we leave STI to do that
and we can move on that's that's what I'm thinking sad would it be unfair of us to ask you to look at the difference in terms of trying to be sort of encyclopedic as opposed to trying to
come up with selections which are representative of a type if that makes does that make sense yeah like like kind of grouping them all together
like how you were just talking about and yeah yeah I don't think that's unreasonable now um okay do we want move to the next
questions or the next page here um I thought that question three was three and four are pretty good as they are um so I think that we deleted question two um I guess this is a our
proposal was to delete question two so you'll see that it jumps from one to three and then this is where we kind of propose that we sort of standardize some of the answers so I can't remember uh question two was recreational opportunities to be
added yeah so I think that um because the question of one is what do you do for recreation and then question two we just decided is what do you want to do in terms of recreation we kind of already covered that right so we deleted
question two okay the key will be in question one just making sure we're clear on what they currently use it for versus what they want right yeah and I think we decided on this call we are actually going to take question one and repeat it for question two and question one is GNA be what do you do and question two is what do you want to do
yeah so the wording in one just needs to change we we have a question two yes yes yes it will be it will be the second half that will be the right yeah okay other words eliminate this
current question too of add adding and it will be what yeah okay all right so let's visit three and four um what are you suggesting here um Christina that
we uh use the same kind of rating on both or um so for this one we just uh we just we actually modified it is unique to this one we just modified instead of daily regularly irregularly and once in
a blue moon we weren't sure like the difference between daily and regularly and so we just tried to put some words that um and made it approximately that maybe were distinct had distinct definitions that people didn't have to think
about oh I see okay uh um we weren't sure how to like Define irregularly or how to define regularly as compared to daily so we just gave really simple what we thought were simple options but obviously open to comment
yeah yeah it's funny isn't it I think yours is more difficult to answer than mine but there you go oh yeah no that's good good perspective then what other think
well only that you know um I would think daily is obvious regularly means oh well I go pretty well you know every every week couple of times irregularly means on a fine day when Uncle Harry
comes when it's my mother's birthday um and U once in a blue moon is exactly that but okay maybe uh be a little more specific and that might take some of the
uh take so for example have daily weekly monthly uh three times three months out of the Year yearly and I would have a uh a never one
or I don't or a zero option so I would add that yeah I think having the time like I just I think that these are some like cuz someone might like I
we understand your units David but I think someone might have different definitions and I think these are pretty pretty standard um time measurements of time yeah except year is a bit weird
isn't it I don't know I mean some some people you know it's it's U you know I don't know summertime only you know like people aren't you know a lot of people but yearly yearly is like your birthday I mean year is isn't
it seasonally wait a minute seasonally is that what it really that what you've just said is seasonally Mike oh yeah yeah I did say seasonally I may that's one of them yeah maybe that's better than
than you know I guess what is that you know is that all seasons is that one season is that just summer or yeah yeah every season where where I'm at in my life right now I climb a mountain yearly we
could um we could change it to numbers we could say like fewer than 10 times a year between like 10 and 25 times a year over 30 times a year I don't know we could put numbers to it if you you know if that seemed easier to understand for
everybody well what I'm wondering then is we need to ask ourselves based on whatever people do what does this tell us that's a good question what what are we trying to understand out of this um but I would I
would say if they say 365 days that there's a person who uses the resources a lot where if they say zero there's someone whose concern is
probably you know not as uh I should say there they're they're not as they're not a client of open space in Newbury so uh that that would tell you that at least
um uh you know it's like whether you go through 6 days or 300 days I mean there comes a point where the weather is gonna be involved in this I mean I I think the generess of the daily weekly monthly you know kind of works it
gives us a understanding you know of what that the person that's filling it out you know what what they're you know what they're kind of like you're going daily if you're going daily then you know you're answering the survey you're you know you're using these resources hard right if you go
yearly okay you're just somebody that enjoys it but it's not like necessarily your thing like that's that's good data to have right like as you're like reading the responses in the survey yeah and if you only go yearly I guess I'd like to know what their answer
was on the what are the barriers to using it because maybe there's a reason that they're not using it and that's we really want to hear their opinions right yeah I talk to a lot of people that you know once the ticks come out they refuse to walk a trail they're they're blows my mind how petrified they are of it you
know but that's a different users kind of experience and they they kind of own the used trails in in that like off tick season you know um so yeah barriers that's that's that's good yeah right and obviously swimming isn't
you know not a lot of people go swimming in the winter um right but they may swim all summer long so uh well let's let's let's stick with with um Christina's uh suggestion I think that obviously works for all of us
in different ways um and I think it plays best into um giving us an idea of who the respondent or respondents are in other words are they people are out there every day or are they people who
uh you know are pretty regular uh and and that's I think a difference so that's what I would suggest okay um uh so what you're suggesting Christina
is that we oh okay so you've added some specific places right after Oldtown Hill yes yeah I think our thought behind that is just like to open people's y when they're thinking about
places is not only about going to Oldtown but going to the beach or going down river to the sandbars that's that's also open space so we just wanted to kind of broaden people process so they get a little bit more creative if they're going to start listing things
right right okay that's bill I guess yeah I'm here sorry I right okay got off the ocean so here but little late all right
uh I seem to lose some people's heads when we get the sample up on my screen I'm not quite sure why but anyway uh okay let's try that no it doesn't work are you trying to share something
David uh no I it's when no I I'm just not seeing everybody who's on that's all oh but that's okay I recognize Bill's voice suddenly now I see him at the bottom of
my grouping here okay so uh so we go to four yes sure um I think this is question four is
pretty straightforward good question um are we happy with this uh with four yeah I was wondering if we could maybe uh use a scale on a scale of one to
10 um please rate your comfort or familiarity with accessing blah blah blah uh zero being not at all tend being very comfortable and
familiar and then in between people can put four five three whatever um you know so we can see what the range is in town when I yeah I I agree we can do it either way when we answered these
questions we were also thinking about how we would report it like so what's we're getting the data but then in the end in the appendix whatever we're going to have um some type of analysis right and so we could either do you could you could do it do a bar graph by if you
want to do it by one through 10 or we could do pie chart if we do it this way or whatever it is however we want to do it um so that's all but I think either way as long as we have a way to to analyze and report back I think that it's good Sean I like
that you haven't seen probably you haven't seen what we were we're kind of proposing the same thing on a on a bunch of following questions ranking things yeah what if we rank it one to three one being not at all two being somewhat and three being very
comfortable that's fine uh yeah I mean actually it is a ranking as it is but um I was just thinking that you know when people say you know I think it's pretty natural for people
to um get a picture in their head of you know what a seven is to them in terms of comfort versus the word comfortable my problem actually is having comfortable and then comfortable and
familiar what's what's the overlap there is that yeah so we had the same question Sean so we Reed that question you can probably see it on the screen oh on the screen here okay sorry yeah so you rem familiarity was removed
yeah yeah yeah we removed that just please rate your comfort with accessing and using open spaces and trails and then we could make it a rating one two or three okay that's fine yeah that's much simpler yep sounds like
we're on the same page okay all right very good okay everyone happy with question four as it is at the moment y y all right um so number
five um when I first looked at this question I was like does this now make it look like we think all of these things are a problem um but I think that it would be good to
have like specifics and have data on each of these specific things um what does everyone else think I definitely think it's a good idea to get some data it will help us sort through um and I like
the rewarding of the question yeah I feel like it could really help us to like if someone is concerned about Trails not being maintained that's like just an action item in our lap now that we have all that data
yeah and I think it's good to have other issues in case somebody has like some other grievance or something gives them an opportunity to express that and um whether we put that into the table or we just put that into the text some other concerns may be whatever we can throw that in the report
too yeah this one uh whoops am I yes this one strikes me that it probably should be a table I did it this way in my redoing be I'll tell you I was lazy I
mean it was the easiest way to set out this group and not take a lot of space but I think a table would be good and I agree that a rank on this would be good too
um so yeah that's I think because what this is getting at without trying to overly highlight it is there are concerns about
we uh I think you're all aware that Newbury does not have a leash law however some of the Open Spaces that we have do have leash requests or in
other words since the for example I'm well aware of this the trustees actually that is private property because it belongs to the trustees and they allow the public on it which means they can have some rules and
regulations which they ask you to observe and one of them is that you keep you dog leashed particularly in areas close to Trails um and so um I was trying here to get at some of the rather
contentious issues without highlighting them in a way that would make people kind of um say oh yes you know I mean uh these people are are are don't know what they're talking about or alternatively
are really understand my concerns uh but because they were busy looking at a number of things so I think that's good having a um a scale from disagree to strongly agree yeah the word rank though one to three
there we're not ranking also uh right yes you're right yeah sorry so this is like we would ask people to answer for each of these options so they're not we're not ranking them yeah that's a good call Jim so I think the way the survey the technology of the
survey will set it up in a way that will prompt you to put in a number for each of these um and so maybe we don't even call it ranking we just say you know we come up with a different word that's agree well each
like rate yeah yeah I mean I think you don't have to call it you can just do uh I don't think you have to do anything I right one two three disagree agree it's where it's where you yeah because they're all statements which you
can agree or not agree to right so we'll just yeah we won't Define yes where okay right so would it be too much to uh I'm sorry yeah go ahead uh would it be too much to
imagine for example a uh a table where these are all listed on the left and their space yeah that's what I'm suggesting they're put into a table format with a you know one two three on the on the right which says
agree strongly you know the usual yeah yeah right okay so um I sorry this is really small but that's kind of how they set up the 2000 survey it's yes like disagree strongly agree and it's one two
three across with each op on the other side I think that's pretty pretty easy to understand right screen s if you changed it over we can only see the word version that is in the enable Edition but anyway I think it
sounds like the software will figure it out yeah I think yeah if I set it up in a particular way I think I'll definitely also I'll make another draft and share it with everyone with all of our changes from tonight um
so any other thoughts about question five Sean did you want to say something I can think of a few more things to add I don't know if we're interested in adding more uh for example
uh uh for example one would be uh Traffic Safety access to the uh access is is not safe because there it's too busy or traffic is for example on uh Scotland Road there are a few
places that really it's pretty tricky to access the uh the open space there uh another one is overcrowded there are certain times when certainly the beaches are overcrowded and that's something that uh people would either
agree or not about uh limited access to restrooms uh that might be an issue for people uh and then another one I thought of is
uh uh just uh you know General uh uh condition of the uh the site such as too much trash or not safe something like that well I think that's sort of
trails not maintained isn't that really in that sort of broadly uh why Sadie why don't you take on board those two things about safety and of
toilets and see if you know if you can work that into this without making it too lengthy yeah uh I think the the the the toilet issue of course is yes never mind you could spend all
night on that one uh okay so can we move on to six one more I just popped in I don't know if we want to go here or not uh could maybe uh add it to parking is an issue but a handicap access is
another one or accessibility for people who are comprom one way or another um something to think about anyways it don't go to these things because I've got a bad leg and it's you know I have
to walk along a wooden plank concerned something like that you want to add that uh s to your possible list there right yeah access right I well
okay um okay thanks I'm done all right so sure yeah okay I think the new spread out and better readable version of um
information um is good and again the the scaling I didn't do any of the scaling stuff because I I wasn't you know looking at
it from the point of view of what level of data we might want to get uh but I think three is generally good isn't it yeah like three um uh like options
yeah yeah I think any more than three unless you really need it tends to string out to the point you really don't know know you know unless for some strange reason and then you've got something very obvious where everybody did
10 um but I think three is generally very good yeah well I think yeah what you're talking about is um the effect of people Bunch toward the middle so if you have 10 options yeah nobody says zero and nobody
says 10 they all say somewhere between three and seven right so there's almost no point in having a zero or a 10 yeah so yeah I agree with this let's keep it simple okay
um okay that last uh option there links on the town of niy website uh I I know you just pulled it from the description that we have here from before but I wonder if that's just a bit wordy um maybe we can
and I'm not sure if it I'm not sure how it's really different from the downloadable maps or whatever yeah that's true it is downloadable are also links yeah what were you driving at here David on the
links to the website um I wonder if that is already covered on the the two downloadable options oh [Music] um
well um I was thinking that when we originally some time ago one of our meetings we were talking about what currently was on the map uh that that's out there okay um in
terms of Mike's revisions for the map and mapping information and currently all of the contact information for uh Green Belt um you know all of the
historic New England Etc is is associated with the map um [Music] and I was wondering whether we needed to cite the fact or ask them whether they
want that information specifically separately available because I had sort of I guess in my mind thinking well if you if you if you go for the map you'll get that
information am I making sense no maybe okay yeah Christina I think you I wonder if it um I wonder if we covered it now I wonder if it's too detailed now that you know it sort of got reframed and maybe that's just covered under downloadable documents with lists
and descriptions and downloadable maps I think maybe we can decide what's going to be on the maps and what's going to be on the list of descriptions so maybe we just take that one off that last one y okay that's I think good um I have a
proposition maybe controversial um but um for question six I think we could maybe say how how should the town or like what is the most accessible way for the town
to provide information to Residents about open space and then we could kind of combine six and seven like where or like we could say like where do you access your information about open space in neighbor so you know it's interesting the where
do you access your information and where do you want to access your information are two different questions and um in some ways we were thinking that we don't necessarily care how you do it now because you might be doing it you know
in this certain way and you don't even like that way so really what we want to know is how do you want to access it so I almost feel like there's only one question which is how do you want to access it as opposed to how do you do it now that's true but I I'm totally fine I hear what
you're saying um they are very similar questions so yeah do you want to take a stab s at just sort of combining and refining those two yeah um uh well one thing I like about seven
is uh it gets us out of the realm of the town because I was going to suggest that we add things like news media uh really uh Ju Just any other place where you might be able to get information like this
um so yeah I the conservation organizations is a great idea because there are people who belong to the trustees that aren't going to go to the Newbery website they're going to get to that information from the trustees website uh they won't be answering this
survey though of course but well yeah I I I would tend to agree generally with that point Sean and also um again there's perhaps a little bit of um intention here which I would own up to
and that is if we get significant and um particularly numbers uh answer to question six then we can pressure the town to do that
that because currently the town isn't doing that very much in other words um okay where you know in other words if people think the town should be an active source of
information even though they may go to other places as well I I wouldn't like to have the one get lost in the other so in some ways that's why I'm thinking that um uh you can add seven to six but it'd
has to be I think a very separate question if you you know in other words it has to be a two question question which yeah raises the issue why not just leave it as six and
S I think you're right I think as long as there's valuable data coming from a question then we should leave it um I don't think it's worth um getting rid of questions just to make it shorter so I think I think you're right there
um I think we can maybe differentiate them a little bit more um and I can work on that um but I see what you're saying there I had a quick qu on question seven so um friends and neighbors or what I
would call Word of Mouth yeah word of mouth with was eliminated do we I is that intentional and I I guess social media you know kind of is a form of that or can be but um I don't know I
guess there's still something about Word of Mouth finding out about things so the reason Bill do you want to remind why we eliminated that because we felt like as an open space committee like we can't facilitate that like
there's nothing we can do about that one and so we're trying to figure out like what we can do as actions and that one we didn't feel like we could do anything with that makes sense and I'm now seeing you reworded it also how do you want to find out and how do you find out yeah so
guess oh yeah yeah sorry no no no no it makes sense now I think what you're saying there we don't want we don't want to right that's something beyond our domain so uh we could advertise in news media though uh if you want to add that one
yeah yep posting yep um but what okay so run by me again why you don't want Word of Mouth kind of things so we rephrased this question how
do you want to find out about open space trails and Recreation areas in Newberry oh how I'm sorry I'm sorry okay uh so if they chose Word of Mouth there's nothing the committee can help with on that one we
want we want to make it better easier yeah uh okay right [Music] well [Music]
that why won as opposed to do because um how they find out their information now like they might not like it or it might not be efficient and so we don't want to assume that because they get their information from X that they want
to continue it we want to know how would you like to find out about these things and maybe you know we can also put an open-ended question um we can also put like an other pleasa specify in case there's nothing that you know resonates with them in terms of how they want to
be able to find their information but I don't know that knowing how they get their information now helps us more than asking the single question of how do you want to find out information which is really what we're driving
towards oh okay um I think in some ways what the way I had originally phrased it would tell us that people in
fact let's say largely rely upon Word of Mouth friends chitchat whatever that they don't look at look for what you might call official
information and that means that the emphasis then that tells us two things one is the relative success of communicating to people through official communication and
also um you know sort of uh the fact that in Newbury it tends to be largely social if that if that's the
case or that it is in fact mostly through you know one or the other and and I think that strengthens our knowledge as to where we put our emphasis so if most people said they
learned from friends and family what would we do as a committee what would be our action item yeah I mean I think we're trying to look at it as like maybe somebody's new to town or you know relatively new maybe doesn't have that Network work you know
they're looking to the town website to discover these resources whatever you know we're providing a way to you know condense them all together so you're not you know jumping from State website trustees Green Belt whatever it's like all right there you know I think that was that's kind of been our our
mindset uh yeah I'm G to defend word of mouth as well only because there's kind of two ways to look at this um you can look at it is are we trying to find out how people will actually find out the information or are we trying to find out
what they want us to do about how they find the information uh and I think I think it's probably since we don't know actually it's better to find out how they find out and then we can determine after
that whether or not it's something we can do something about obviously if it's word of mouth it's going to tricky although you know we could I guess talk to more people in time but uh do you see what I'm I guess what I'm
saying is there're kind of two different things we're asking uh one is how do you how do you do it how do you get to this open space that' be good to know uh for some people it's nothing more than oh I live right next door to it that's how that's how I
found out for other people it's oh I belong to this conservation Oregon uh we're visiting everyone in 10 days so we we go to all of them uh so that that's another possibility so that's how they do it uh yeah because how we would right
how we would help with that is almost irrelevant because there's very little just to reinforce what you're saying Sean I think actually Christina and Bill question six
really um answers qu the question seven you have see what I'm saying if people think the town should provide information then presumably that's the they the way they want to get
it well I I think it if it's available in other way so like if they identify they want to be able to look on an app or social media whatever then then we could put energy into it but I understand kind of what you're saying so
if you were going to put Word of Mouth then change question six back to the way that you wrote it um how what is it it's the friends neighbors web yeah right yeah how do you find information
and then we're going to put down printed documents printed maps and they're going to say disagree to all those because we don't do a good job with that now and then they're say word of mouth so then you we could report in the report say most people the only way they find out the best way to find out currently is
through Word of Mouth however given the options they would prefer to find out through you know these other options if you wanted to split this up and rework it again I think if if they've okay if they've answered question six as
strongly agree don't they don't they answer that what you've just said and that that they they want they want that kind of information even
though they may currently find it out from Neighbors buddies people at work whatever they strong I'm saying yeah they strongly agree that they get it through word of mouth but they also
strongly agree I would like to get it through websites or or something like that it's just that we aren't really making any other option available to him at this time except word them M or very not as well yeah I agree with you David that I
think that six and seven you know I think that we're back to STI saying that six and seven are so overlapping that we should try and revise it a little bit so let's let stie try and put some energy into it and see what she comes up with yeah I agree
okay all right be before we hand it off to STI can I just uh suggest one more thing which is uh uh you know maybe signage uh you better signage around the sites because that could very easily be
a way that people find out about this you know they're driving by and oh look there's an open space for me to visit uh didn't know that kind of thing yeah that is an action that like the open space committee could work on with the town you know and our Partnerships
um so that would be a good one to add into question six you know increased signage at publicly accessible sites yeah um whoa
uh that's yeah okay um that's a little problematic as I would see it because that means that you're yeah okay we only have control
over a very small number of the of the potential number of open space and sites all those that are in the care of other organizations it's up to them what they do right yeah
that's why I said that we could maybe talk to the partners that we have that actually have the open space you know every partner that we have but I agree that that it's a it's a steep hill to climb and maybe you know some people are very subtle about their signage because
they don't want as much traffic which I completely get also um so yeah it's a it's a little bit of a controversial one there Sean but I hear what you're saying so anyway it's up to everybody if they want to add that as an option um and again David it's not something we
control but we would just we could take the action to work with our partners to increase signage and if it doesn't work as they say no then okay but at least that we add into our plan put energy there is you know and there is one
unfortunately the one example where we do have control namely Great Pasture is singularly the offender because there's nothing there except don't there are you know negative signs not positive ones as
you know it does um and and there should be um so I think this is something we can't really deal with in the question there but I think it is an issue in the whole Communications area
right okay shall we move on to eight sounds good um I think this one was a good important one yeah I like I like the adjustments that bill and Christina uh added to both eight and nine I think they make sense I
like both questions thought they should remain you yeah I like the rewarding of the questions yeah all right any comments or edits we want to make on
these two so I'll be really honest the one question that I really want to ask people and so you guys can you know shut me down if you want to but I you know this was worded very specific should we dedicate resources right that's like man
hours dollars um I think there's another hidden question that I would love to ask which is would you be willing to I'm not going to word this right uh just off the bluff but would you be willing to pay slightly more in taxes in order
to conserve Open Spaces to retain the Integrity of the real feeling of Newberry that's really also one one thing that I want to know well that's the that's CPA yeah we asked it in the we asked it in the 2007 survey I can't remember if
it was in the 2000 survey um or not but I don't think it was I I wondered that if that was something that we should be just throwing out there as a question as well okay we eliminated question 12 because we felt like it was really complicated so maybe we replace it with a very
simple one like I just would we like to spend money okay yeah but I just I'm going to say it's it's there but we may need to reward it absolutely yeah okay okay good right um I don't know how educated you know everybody will be on
on what the community preservation Act is so I don't know if we need to give a little if we do ask that question if you know if you would support something like that if we have to give a brief you know summary of like what that means you know an increase on your taxes dedicated to
XYZ uh you know without getting into like a whole dissertation on the community preservation act yeah I think we wouldn't even mention the community preservation act I think we just say like I just said like would you be willing to pay slightly more on your taxes with the goal of using the funds
to conserve open space to protect the Integrity of the rural character of the town period I got like I got law no one knows what 61a is or CPA or anything like that so I think just like put it in words that everybody knows which is do you
want to pay a little money to do it or not but let's tackle that when we get down to that question yeah okay all right so let's focus back on eight and nine for a minute um I thought thought we liked them eight and nine yes right
I'm going to say are we ready to move on from them uh oh with nine uh the the point I had was uh what I'd like to see there is maybe a ranking so uh just put a number next to
the one two three what are those like let me like with the uh which question was it before um number five like similar setup uh okay different kind of ranking in other words uh this is uh
exclusive ranking so you've got one two three four I think it was five one two three four five options so uh rank one through five the your where one is being your
most most the one you favor most five being the one you favor least of these five examples oh not disagree disagree but like which one do you think we should spend the most time on like rank in
order right rank them in order yeah okay and remove the agree disagree yeah yes yeah okay those the only five options though I guess I feel like I want to make sure
that we really agree that these are the five options that are on the table because I don't feel like we've fully vetted what our options are we were just sort to looking for suggestions on what people thought maybe we should do oh right okay yeah so maybe we have to
put some more thought into uh I noticed none is missing uh is that intentional I could see where someone would rank that you know what they want they don't want any open space I can't I can imagine that would
be me but uh okay so you're saying to go back to the original wording of question nine which is what town actions do you favor to preserve open space we had revised it to say um you know tell us if you agree if
the town should take the following potential actions in the future and um it's on the screen so it's like do you agree or disagree with existing Town land should be developed for active recreational open space you agree disagree um so it's kind of similar to your
ranking but it's not like preferential ranking it's just do you think we should even do this well I I like the idea of preferential ranking because it does force people to make a decision oh I'd rather have uh uh I'd rather have uh permanent conf
conservation versus passive Recreation yeah I think ranking is the way to do this um uh otherwise they could just say I totally agree with everything and then
what did we learn yeah yeah no it's a really really good thought okay so we'll revise question nine to make it a preferential ranking will revise the words the introduction to the in description right and actually uh I I
know we have six options but we could limit it to three just say pick three rank them one two three your favorite your second least and your least favorite something like that if they want to put four and five that's fine but we don't have to tabulate them out
that way either do you understand what I'm saying there yeah so then they wouldn't even you so we have five options and you don't want them to rank them one through five you only want them their top one and two and three are the more options
you put the more difficult it becomes to answer the question uh and the more scratch outs you're going to see on the piece of paper you know so oh I meant to make that four than rather than six you know okay then if if we want to
slim the numbers down let me suggest that one two that um number three gets taken out I don't think so I think that I think we should give them all five options and they should like how about
they Circle their top three or something or they just say which are their top three that they want to do okay that's my number one answer right there I don't want even have that op wait a minute okay um I agree okay wait
I'm sorry I I'm a a little bit of a disadvantage here it's my own fault um all right okay okay uh I was using my own
the original not the amended okay um because this is the first time I've seen the amended um uh okay um yeah I just think we should rank them yeah I agree I say keep them you five
rank them right I think that's I think that ranking is a good way to do it to it'll be easier to report that results that way yes yeah so you're saying okay you're saying literally rank this is my top number one all the way down to my fifth it's the least important from my
perspective just right the last two are a little redundant but I think it's okay I'd go with it okay do we want to um think about adding more options are we happy with these options that we have
um uh is that a leading question no I just wanted to know where our heads were out there if we're happy with five options uh yeah I I my sense is that um
what uh sh was saying is true is that um they're all different when you're a member of the open space committee but where you know Joe Schmo who walks the trail every now and then I I'm not I
think this is the toughest question to give a really sort of informed answer to um because it it does say um some really sort of tough things
well you know I mean should should we do should we really do that as opposed to the other thing but for some people it may be very obvious so I would say let's not try to add unless we think there's
something some action that's totally missing and my original list which is only marginally different from the new one was called from three or four or
five other um questionnaires used by towns and and I'm not saying this because it's me and I did it but just would remind you that one of the things is that the kinds of questions and to
some degree the wording we need to think about is this is stuff that's being accepted by the state and so we I I I think in some cases we need to be a little careful if
we go into wording which which State might find too uh prescriptive perhaps is the word yeah I don't think there's that problem here but just a thought so can we move on to 10 yeah one
other thing if we were G to um keep these five you we could put I had forgot my thing we could do like a Fillin the blank and you could rank that so if somebody feels really strongly about public access to or whatever you know they can write something in and then
rank it number one if they wanted that's just one other thought if we're missing something here I didn't want to make it too limited you could add an open just say uh uh put a little just uh comment section yeah people could write whatever
they want yeah sounds good yeah you could yeah right um any action not listed here right is that would that cover that sort of wording cover it I think so and
that's the Crux of the whole thing what do you public think that we should do open space so yeah no it's a great I leaving it open makes sense yeah great can you add that in then uh s here good
great Okay so [Music] where are um uh okay um number 10 then so we kind of tweak this one to um
to just list out some of the contributions that open space Open Spaces provide to the town and and how it contributes to the scenic or verbal qu quality which I feel like it almost is a little bit of a leading
question but um see what you guys think and then we just listed off those things David that you had there we might have tweaked a couple things and just said yeah which are the most important to you which ones do you agree with the most um I another controversial thing I
was um wondering what um we were trying to glean from this question like what I I I just I feel like most people would agree that all of these do contribute but is there
something that you guys had in mind with this question for what we would find out I think that's where my hangup that I was talking about earlier kind of stemmed from exactly that STI like I looked at this question and was like I love all these things and all these things are important to me
so yeah what do I do with this you know and I I couldn't get past it when I when I was reviewing this uh another uh ranking might help I mean rank your first favorite or the
thing let's see how's this written um most important as a one least important as a six something like that I don't know how many there are one actually look over here uh one two three four five six
seven so there were seven so rank these one to seven I think this is the most important yeah I would worry Sean that if we had to rank them like I know I would have a
lot of ties and would just go to prefer a strong agreement like a three you know on the ones that are my most important but I also do Wonder at this stage we're on the 10th question or you know how much
uh more do people have in terms of uh you know focusing on doing that but that's just my initial reaction or if we if we um do decide to like keep this question I think maybe it could be good
to put at the beginning because then people have all their energy still and it also could like like get them in the mindset of answer like thinking about open space and like ah I love historic districts I love l Rivers estuaries like you get them in the right attitude to
fill out the rest of the survey um yeah that's a great Point yeah I like that yeah I feel like having it I feel like having this question helps I feel like knowing I kind of like the ranking the what's most important what's least important but I get it I feel like they would all be
ties right for some people Jim like you it almost tells us what is most important to the people I mean I guess we're only going to get we're we're not going to get that many people to respond to the survey so we're only going to get a small subsection but it would be interesting for us to be able to prioritize I feel like this helps us
prioritize like what kinds of properties do we want to be trying to conserve and preserve because there are the properties that people are most interested and are most important to them and I guess Christina uh Christina then thinking it over again I could see
people being like yeah the beaches are most important to me and some of these others are really not that important so maybe I'm kind of backtracking a little bit there um yeah one another prioritize oh sorry yeah it's really tough to
prioritize um and again it may not be as informative because there's may be three top three so how about we just say select the top three of these that are most important to you that's I think kind of a good compromise or a good way to achieve what we want to get
out of that question yeah yeah actually I think you're right that choosing a limited number is is the way to to to find out most about people's
mindsets who complete the survey yeah yeah top great yeah I agree and just make sure it's clearly so yeah the only problem I have with that is what if somebody circles four or
something like that you know what does it mean it's always the Rebel Rouser in the in the service the reason always have the kid who has the smart comment so that's how you take care of that if it's online you might be able to restrict it to just
three but yeah I do feel like this is mostly going to be taken electronically and so the system will just won't won't allow you to you know the software that we're going to use is just going to be set up in a way that lets you choose three yeah but you're right hand the hand mark up people oh wait a minute
wait so if we're going to do choice of three how do we cope with other they can check it and you would have a text box that let that would be one of the three options that the person all right all right that's all
right as long as the pr describe is in there because if they check other we don't what it is we you know well can't say that sort of thing online can you
anyway okay we all sort of pretty happy STI are you happy with 10 in terms of our intentions I think so yes um yeah because at any point here if we're if I'm pushing too far say wait a minute
let know what I'm supposed to do here uh no I I understand I like the I like the um revised question 10 right one more question about 10 did we decide to move it more towards the front of the survey
oh yeah where would we want it uh uh new question three how about we make it or or is or what about question one although I kind of want to get them
in the groove a little bit before they answer this question so maybe question after question two somewhere so it would be it would be um yeah it would be this question and then
this would be question two no no we're gonna repeat question one as question two but we're asking them what do you question one is what recreational activities do you participate in now to get them thinking and we give all the
list question two you're going to create and it is what recreational activities do you wish that you could participate in and we didn't give them the list and then there's question three and then question three is what question we're moving question 10 into the question three
spot yeah yeah right make 10 into into the one that comes right because that gets yes that leads nicely into what is now three yeah okay great yes
gee we should go into business guys long as they don't charge us by the hour I mean uh yes that's true or or conversely as long as we're billing by the hour anyways uh we're far
too expensive for for most people I think anyway so we proposed that question 11 was so similar to question one that we proposed eliminating it what was it
again what function does your time outside have for you time in nature recharging exploring Sports other activity EG fishing could have been anything um I I
guess it what that's about and that's something I picked up from a couple of other places is it's it's saying exactly that why why is it important to
you to to do what what it is you do in in open space or Recreation um and um it it maybe should include other things
um you know team activities or I don't know but um is it an important question for us to know the answer to I think is the obvious question about it maybe not it seems like an important question
now that we're now we're kind of you know looking at it with fresh eyes um if our open space and Recreation plan wants to talk talk about why open space is important to the town we could have some information from folks that tell us why
it's important to them so it seems so there could be some value in asking the question but I'm curious what other people think too it could be valuable for the whole narrative part of the plan I think you're right there yeah yeah the only
the thing I would um you know the first three are more um I'm not sure what word to use there but tied to re you know related what you how you get satisfaction I think you
know like you were saying I think Christina Sports and other activities kind of are already covered in question one when they're specific to that so maybe it's more like um exercise and socializing yeah socializing would be
good something a little more of the um you know that nature as opposed to something that kind of hones right in on a specific activity um uh uh one of the notes I had on that one was uh
hell uh but I was thinking of it actually yeah in kind of a uh as more of a mental health issue where uh I think people certainly in my own case feel you know less constrained when you're
outside in a nice wide open area than when you're you know stuck between four buildings in a parking lot somewhere um that sort of thing uh but I have no idea
how to how to put that in in a into a reasonable uh form for this question or really any question would it be at this point since we're um we do we do have the advantage of
being able to tweak this you know right up until time as to we decide how we're going to actually send this to people um sad is it if we take out Sports and
other activities and use words like um exercising socializing Health that broadens the range a little bit would you feel comfortable sort of using
those as a guide and coming up with anything else you think might fit in there because I I I do think one of the things that as you talking about the narrative part of the eventually the
plan one of the things that's increasingly clear and you can find this in organizations across the world now is that this the whole encounter with the natural world and the rhythms of the
natural world is a very important part of our relationship to one another and and and you know to to essentially our Our Lives um and if we don't have
that and this is you know not an issue we get into but if we don't have that as many people in cities don't um it's it's a NE a real negative and so the converse is having it is a
great positive which you need to protect and to husband yeah I agree agree with that yeah y okay so let's see if we can uh expand that a little and and just take
out the specificity um okay so uh all right so we had taken out 12 yeah as well because we felt like there might be some overlap with eight which was
what actions should we be taking um to like protect open spaces or something along those lines but happy to revisit 12
um oh this is the one that had the CP CPA and whatnot so could we this the one that we revised that says like should the town would you be willing to increase your taxes slightly to protect open space so wait a minute we got we're
where's I'm having having to go back here to okay uh I should go I should find the your version David uh well my original one
says should the town seek new slash other sources of funding to Aire open space and then examples grants from State local found foundations individuals gift of land tax of land tax
benefits you know this was not this was not in any final askable form frankly um uh what I I guess my this I will
declare freely personal bias is I would like to get some sense of whether people are aware that there are specific instruments that a town can [Music]
use to both acquire you know maintain and plan for open space and and that um Newbery has none of them there might just be that might just be
too much to ask a General survey taker though you know I this is going to right okay yeah how can we dumb it down just how can we dumb it down let's make it super simple right yeah all right I okay I mean until
I worked in the industry I had no idea about some of the grant opportunities or or whatever for that kind of stuff you know what I mean it's just like a general resident in places like that wasn't even in my purview you know just as like you know kind of as an
example yeah yeah everybody everybody understands taxes which is I think back to what Christina said you know like are you willing to you know financially contribute
to you know open open space and wck Facilities or however we want to kind of phrase something like that because I think that the other question where we asked ask people what actions should we take when we say Protect land for different reasons
protect it to develop it protect it for you know protect it and develop it for sports was one of the options protect it for conservation purposes we don't need to go into the details of how we would do that but if they say yes you should do that then the onus is on the town to figure out how to do that whether it's
land or you know that's where like the the nuts and bolts we don't have to talk about them but they're already covered in the previous question so I feel like this question could just be that one that people are curious about which is would you be willing
because those those other grants and whatnot might not require anybody to Pony up money right we really want to ask the question here are you would you be willing you know what I would love to ask question
nine over again only instead of saying is this something you would favor I think it's question n uh the one where we had the ranking yeah it is yeah and instead say uh same R same options in the same
ranking concept but this time uh are you willing to see uh your taxes go up in order to rank one through six which of these things so I mean it's one thing to say
okay yeah I really want to preserve you know existing Town Lambs for uh what's the other one uh where is it uh non uh you know just just to preserve the land but then the next question is well
okay do you want to use Town money to buy that land and then find that nobody wants to do that uh that would be really in useful information I think yeah and there really are only three options there that is a really
interesting one because they might be willing to increase their taxes to do one of those three items but not do the other two items so because the bottom two options are we shouldn't dedicate resources towards preserving open Stace and we shouldn't dedicate resources towards active Recreation areas so we
wouldn't put those in the next question we would only take the top three that says would you be willing to increase your taxes for one two or three and they could either disagree they could either say yes or no we could have it be a yes no question or we could
have it be a rank it as a scale disagree agree or strongly agree or of some other ranking way yeah uh I I think what do I think I I think
that any question that is as broad as would you support or increasing your taxes to XY or Z in this day and age and this community
in particular is a red rag to a bull I I really because you're not you're not indicating all kinds of questions which certainly come to my mind and I think to a lot of people's minds and that is how
much who controls it what does it do no I don't want to do any of that because you're not explaining to me you know I think it's too just too broad a question Christina and I think what I'm
and I don't you know take responsibility for the fact that I know about CPA and so on but I think that's that's what led me to word that that way to essentially say
you see the CPA and other things of that kind are in the in the control of the town of the residents of the Town not given to the taxing authority
of the town do do do I does that make any sense well yeah I mean I mean the way question 12 is written now it's like why you know nobody's going to say well of course I mean if we can get the money from the state and you know foundations
and gifts and other I don't I have to confess I I don't know what CPA means but all of those options are have nothing to do with your tax rate going up then I'm sure everybody's going to say sure let's do it why not of course we're spending someone else's money
that's a great idea uh but when you ask them are you willing to spend money to do this it kind of puts a different light on it and as you say it does you know some people are just going to say no I'm not willing to do that and that's to me that seems
like a fair thing for someone for us to find out um what it actually implies is that well I guess if we want to do this stuff we're going to have to find grants from the state local foundations and gifts and whatever the
CPA is uh Land Bank whatever so I do like the idea of of saying okay well nothing's for free here uh but if but if you decide you don't want to fund
this stuff then yeah there's other ways we can do it but you don't have to approve those those are things we can just go off and do on our own I would assume I mean there's nothing preventing us from getting a state grant for Open Spaces is
there not having this plan completed that's what we're doing right right people are you know people are you know not obligated to give us but if they give us you know a big chunk of land we could certainly say okay well
that's open space now you know so we we don't need people's attitudes on that that that's kind of already a given uh so not so I guess what I'm saying is what we're really trying to do is find out what our Town's people's
attitudes are about things that would affect them for example like having open space is one thing we've most of these questions are trying to discern you know just how important an issue that is to
them and this is just another one is it so important that you're willing to pay for it I think that's fair to put in here somehow I don't I don't know I understand the wording yeah might have to be careful with it uh we don't want to start a we don't want to imply that
if they said yes on all these wonderful questions their tax rates are going up uh I don't think that's I mean it's there's got to be a big if you know if we're asking about you know you know tax money where're you
know we have to say if this stuff is important to you would you could you imagine you know pay tax okay so could we could we sort of phrase it
essentially say should the town seek well yeah okay should the town actively find funding for open space and Recreation projects or something like
that well I think Sean I agree with Sean's comment that if it's free and doesn't cost anybody any money of course they're all going to agree with that and they're all going to say yes so what we really want to know is not do you want us to try and proect protect open space
but do you how much are you would you like to us to even consider and I we just have to phrase it properly would you consider a small tax increase to do this note by answering this question will not increase your taxes at this time you know so I just
think and we can look how other surveys also phrase the question but I I don't think it's worth I agreee with you Sean I don't think it's worth asking questions like do you think we should look for Grants to protect open space I don't know I guess because I feel like people would likely say
yes and we've already asked that question um yeah yeah sure all right my my hunch is that um since in question n you know we have the two choices at the bottom of
that what we're showing on the screen now the town should not dedicate resources which I know dedicating resources doesn't necessarily mean taxes um a tax increase um but if we like would go the CPA route or some other
kind of tax type matter um I I think that's like a how and seems like it could be in the open space plan right how are we going to fund any initiatives assuming the survey comes back with you know feedback that
says yes go ahead and acquire um and develop um more open space and so on so I guess it's putting I think we're I would I I would think it's better just to leave it out at this point everything in question 12 and we
can come back to that as a a goal and an action item that gets into the plan right because that's it's the how we're going to achieve what the survey is telling us so yeah that's a good point in
fact yeah it doesn't really matter how we get the funding sources we may I mean it may be you know once we have a plan we put it in front of people they could tell us whether they want to pay for it or not then exactly yeah yeah yeah so what
you're suggesting Jim in a sense is don't ask this question now ask it actually when we have a draft plan which proposes actions which clearly require
money and then you can legitimately say are you willing to pay more taxes beat up the state you know go to Uncle Harry or whatever it might be
correct yeah okay so let's leave it out simple as that so stie I can work with you on I think we just need to revise the wording of question nine because now it's like trying to I I I just think that the town-owned land should be put into permanent conservation easements
that doesn't answer it it kind of implies that we've already got existing lands and what I think we really are trying to evaluate now is should oh no no no that's that's important okay uh where um you're
wanting to minate no because that's okay sorry plot again on my part this is directed at the upper and lower greens and any other land like that there is this
this what shall I call it you know sort of complacent notion that because they're historic uh nothing's going to happen to them well the fact of the matter is
until you put a conservation restriction on them of of a permanent kind Anything could happen to them then we need to just add another option here that says um because this is like we're asking what actions should the town of Newbury
take in the future so we need to add another option that says um acquire additional lands for the purpose of open space and Recreation on question nine or 12 nine okay so that
we can eliminate 12 because 12 was going to be do you want to raise taxes we decided not to ask that question because if they tell us in question nine that yes we want you to go acquire land of course you're going to need money to acquire land and that will de facto be answering the question of we want you to
find some money I I guess I'm not super comfortable with asking the question question later about taxes because I feel like having a little bit of a basis in our plan and some feedback from the town right now when they're really their head is in the
game because they're in the middle of a survey that's reminding them how important open space is and how often they use it I feel like I would it's a stronger case for us to make to the town that we
should consider whether it's the CPA that increases our taxes or we just find a way to increase our taxes like without having that mechanism so that we can meet the land acquisition to preserve so that the charge of
preserving more open space is something we've already documented that people are willing to do anyway so I don't totally agree yet with not asking the question but at a minimum we have to add another option under nine I kind of agree with that too in
that and if we wanted to do 12 again word smithing is everything but it would essentially say the should generate income to acquire open space for blah blah blah and then and then there would be a scale disagree agree strongly
agree simple I mean you could just that's it just and have them rank it so Christina the opt the thing that would be added to I'm just a little confused still the thing that would be
added to question nine is is an option that would be ranked with all these other options about would you be willing to pay more in your taxes it would be should the town
actively seek to acquire land for the purpose of open space and Recreation okay maybe something as general as that because it's basically asking do you want the land to spend money
on land do you want the town to spend money on land okay what so we would get rid of the the ranking here no we would just have what's he yeah you can't I don't
think yeah you can't have ranking if you ask that question that way what I'm wondering is whether something like a combination of what you said and Bill just said should
be now a question 10 in other words should follow question nine from having thought about um essentially say uh
in with regard to question nine above should the town uh raise funds or however you want to put it um to achieve the goals in in question nine yeah I still like in looking at
question nine though now also that I understand the context of the second two bullets about the town on lands I guess I feel like there still is a massive Gap if we're trying to figure out what people want us to do to put in as our goals on the plan we don't even have a
goal of preserving additional land and I feel like that's what the open space plan committee might be most interested in doing so we at least have to put that as an option that they can rank
okay so on question 9 add option additional lands lands okay and then we would add a question between right are coming right after nine
of um would you be willing to to see a small tax increase to make these things happen in the above question or some something better worded than that y or raise funds okay
yeah cuz I think that's the that's the logical place to answer to ask it yeah if we're going to ask it at all I I would I would be comfortable with asking it there because I think what Christine
is saying is absolutely right that once they thought through these things that question then becomes an ouch doesn't it if I've just said yes to all of these things it's important important then how
do we do that yeah put my money where my mouth is yeah okay uh all right so 12 is gone um can I just uh point out that if we use
like the a term like acquire uh you know the town should acquire land for open space use something like that that doesn't mean that we're actually paying for uh could be a gift from somebody yeah it
could be a sure it could be something else and that way we're skipping the whole issue of how do we fund that and still keep it in line with trying to figure out what people's preferences are in terms of what where we should put our efforts yeah because actually any land
you do acquire no matter how you acquire it becomes an expense item of a Kind so it does involve you know anywhere from small to larger amounts of money ultimately to
maintain it yeah yeah and I mean frankly the Great Meadow is a classic example where the town acquired it and didn't think through what that would mean in terms of upkeep right okay nothing wrong there's
nothing wrong with passive management I me I'm serious in that you know no no getting it is the hardest part yeah rest of Eternity to figure out what to do with it but getting is the is the hardest thing to do yeah most important thing to do right and actually uh doing
nothing still leaves it open so that's good too um so now I'm looking at I think question 10 here and it's looking like that question should probably be moved up before before the ranking question
question 10 was moved to be in the third spot right oh I'm sorry okay thank you right okay no you're good oh boy okay radical surgery yes that that's a sign we gotta we got
to wrap up this meeting yeah okay moving on to 13 okay I think we can all agree with 13 that one looks easy you know what I only had this comment that if someone is doing this on behalf of a
household then this question is sort of irrelevant because they're you know they're responding it on behalf of their six-year-old their 18y old their 80y old mother and their 45 so anyway I did actually have like a little bit of heartburn but I get that we want to
capture some demographic information and I'm all on board so however we want to come up with that I could say has your household resided in Newbury something like that I I think it's less relevant how long you've been in town I mean I think
the like 14 15 16 se you know 17 th you know those I think are the are the more valuable information you know I mean maybe you lived in Raleigh for 30 years and you've been in newy for one like I I don't know I don't know if that is Rel
yeah it's a good point I'm wondering whether uh more important might be to know where whether they live in Plum Island or Oldtown or Byfield that was in one of the earlier surveys the
2000 I think yeah I think we should change 13 to where what area of Newberry do you live like what street W Street no I don't think I think that might not be specific
enough what are the areas so how would we are there actual names for kind of like that cover all of Newberry well people elect don't they I mean people uh where you guys live is Oldtown
in fact it's the the proper original real Old Town whereas people who live on the upper green will tell you they live in Oldtown which of course is nonsense but well that's what I was wondering like what is the area that by the upper
green what is that called like Plum Island's obvious byfield's obvious Oldtown I thought was okay so Byfield has South Byfield too what was that Sean uh there's a South Byfield which is where Triton and
the yes first Paris church are and the a dumber or we could like create our own little map that say do you live in areas 1 two 3 4 five like put a map that shows area one two three four five let follow some major streets or something and then people don't have to get all wound up
about they said it called it South by field and I think it's by field we could make I mean it it brings the question why are we asking again uh does it really matter how many years you've lived in town or what section of town I
think it does because I think um there is a sort of question that one asks about the questions and that is if we pull out the people who are responding from Plum Island is there a pattern to
some of their responses because I this this kind of stuff we need to know I agree yeah yeah and we want to know we want to make sure the town is well represented too we don't all the answers
com well exactly yes exactly um you say how complicated you feel the mapping idea that Christina mentioned which I think is super [Music] except
uh what do you think stie so stie just stepped away for a second um you're kind of a map Master what do you think about this question something that I don't know if stie even has the tools to be able to do it and I don't want to put the onus on you but I just want to ask your opinion about what if you just what
if you just what if you make it a little simpler and you just do it by the voting Precinct you're in Precinct one or you in prec prct two people know yeah who no but that's that's wacko isn't it well not really I mean I don't live in bfield
I live in Newbury but I don't live in Oldtown or Plum Island but I I get sent to Precinct 2 even though I have an 01951 zip code not 01922 zip code well I'm just saying like does that that
gives you at least like a 5050 split as opposed to a third you know or quarters or fifths or however some arbitrary you know designation you know what I mean like it's yeah everybody that's registered to vote knows if they're in
Precinct one or Precinct two but that doesn't tell me what I think but it doesn't tell me anything very useful frankly but are you assuming that somebody on Plum Island only cares about
the beach because that's no weird presumption too you know what I mean like no I'm not but I am suggesting that um oh how shall I say um that for
example um well there are all kinds of secondary questions you can you can put with you can use data to tell you or to suggest to you that people who live here tend to be less exposed to or to be less
interested in and they may not you know want always has to be careful when you use that kind of data manipulation obviously but I think it's it we have an opportunity to either say give us your
address okay but maybe people are not comfortable doing that and that was the other question I had is is should we ask for people's address simply and that way we know where they are uh I could think
of a fairly easy way to divide the town up but again I don't I'm thinking uh you could say uh Byfield or uh you could say west of Route One as one area east of Route One
to Plum Island Sound and then Plum Island that would pretty much break it into three chunks I actually think I've seen that somewhere else uh not sure where but then I have another question is um does the town actually have uh
information like this um I would have thought that would be something they might have actually how many people are in how many people are in Byfield how many people are out on the island that kind of
thing uh I don't know how that would help us but I'm just thinking if we aligned with that whatever that distinction is that they use that might be a good thing to do or try like if the master plan talks about the demographics or the Census Data is
categorized in a certain way and we try and replicate that yeah that's actually you know what I think I do know where I read it uh uh one of the doc is that 165 page planning document uh open space commit open space planning document and
I think it's in there somewhere where it talks about uh and I think it's a around issues of like uh buildable Lots or something like that where they talk about the geology of the
place uh that kind of breaks the town up into those three separate regions so I think I think it's actually already been done if you want I I'll see if I can find it uh I have to admit I haven't gotten through all 165 pages yet but uh I'll go back and see what I can
find but I think that's how they do it that's they say uh basically west of Route One East of Route One to the sound and then the the island okay I think that's a good way to organize it
yeah okay I I would yeah I would agree um I me you could you could call it Byfield Oldtown in Plum Island I think a lot of people would recognize pretty much what that means yeah that he doesn't live in any of those three places so I think that we want be as
inclusive as we can so well he could skip that question we could ask people just what street they live on like that would you know they don't have to give us their number but they could just give us what street what is the name of your street period yeah but that that's much harder
work than than the the three areas you see I I yeah let's try sad can you try wording Shan suggestion in in a way that um sort of does that I think that does
work okay um better because Oldtown is this issue you know I mean this is why I for the long time have been fighting this battle of all of the planning documents we have talk about newbury's
three villages and we don't have three villages For Heaven's Sake anyway that's a whole other conversation for another time great um I'm in the common pasture right Mike we were about to move
on you all right so we're eliminating question 13 and we're replacing it with where do you live yeah how many people in your household anybody have a issue with that I don't actually do I guess yeah it's an interesting thought thought anybody have
any comments on 14 15 or 16 or 17 no no no 18 18 I uh was wondering what this one means what is group yeah that was it
going to help us um okay uh I guess have to raise my hand and say I was responsible for that um that was just sheerly out of um out of Interest as to
whether most of the you know okay whether in fact the survey does survey families or is it individuals who are you know largely
responding um I I don't know um uh it's it's it's easy um to to answer and and I think if
we if we found out the vast majority was individuals um that really tells us perhaps that we're not getting quite the input we might be interested in because if it's a family I
think it you could get some real conversation going you see about some of these questions you could I think the individual is interesting though I mean say Bill and I each filled out this survey we're in the same family but we might have different answers we might
rank things differently we might have agree and disagrees that are different so I don't know how much this helps us like what would we do with that data with this answer and also I could select individual when I fill out mine
and my wife could select family when she fills hers up so what does that mean okay all right so um I'm happy if you want to can it I kind of like the idea of group
because um there are entities that I mean I could there are businesses and churches and places like that obviously Triton where there are people from out of town but I I assume that we we're not
looking to include them in the survey here uh but then are we I guess is the question that that term just brought that into my mind there yeah though that is a good question actually yes are we
sending this to only residents uh you know um H households okay have we thought about that no we probably haven't have we s or have you if it's if people are responding as
households or individuals no I'm thinking more of who we sending this to or are for example sending this to only um taxpayers um if so businesses
are taxpayers I mean what who are we sending it to well I know that we will be making available a QR code at the town
meeting um besides that I'm not sure oh I think our plan right so I actually wrote an announcement I forgot to send it out I wrote an announcement that we're going to put on the web page um under news and announcements and it's going to say like the open space committee is you know come complete our
survey and click on this link here which will take you to the survey or it will take you to a QR code that you can scan with your phone then you can do it on your phone yeah so I mean I think also we would send it out to the email notice list for the people who signed up for the open space
committee um as well and then you know we did talk about like spreading the word about this you know having printed flyers and going to certain places out the fires yeah posting it at the dump posting it at the you know
maybe tender crop would put it up like you know some of the cby farm some of the businesses that says are you you know do you but I honestly yeah anyway so I think that we don't know David we're this is going to be like a this is part of our Outreach strategy that we
haven't quite B ized yet yeah okay so then um maybe maybe strike that one yeah I think so I think it Le it's a little bit there's too many
possibilities the only thing I was thinking is I mean the previous open space plan you know refers to the residents of the Town who responded to the survey it says Town residents specifically we could say are you a town
resident and or and they could say yes or at the other option to answer could be this other bucket right of non-residents that our businesses or maybe since we don't have control over who is going to receive open up the
survey and complete it and we agreed it's Anonymous and we don't want to ask for street addresses and stuff like that it's just a a way to you know understand if whoever filled out the survey assuming they're answering it truthfully is not a resident and who are they you
know they could be a business owner could be some someone else who lives on a bordering town or whatever who just happens to answer it but but I think we're covering that with the other question where do you live in Newbury yeah no you're right we are okay then we
can just strike it stop there no I think though we did agree on our last meeting that we were going to ask that question are you a resident of Newbury if they click yes then have like the second question drop down do you live in you know west of group one
yeah yeah oh okay good reminder but I did check you know I'm looking right at the previous uh the one and it says you know open space plan survey of over 500 Town residents so yeah but do I suppose if we're going
into the world of QR codes Etc we might expect nonresidents but do we seriously expect that nonresidents are going to do this
no we don't know what it our way of um of confirming like we might decide that we don't want to take into account the interest of non-residents like in the answers of non-residents so we wanted to be able to confirm that we can say in our plan that we have this many
responses from town residents and the only way we can say that is if we ask the question are you a resident so I think there's value in how well haven't we asked as to where you live you could add non-resident to that I suppose right right well okay couldn't
you um question 13 well we going to do this about where do you live in Newbury um west of route one and then could we simply add I
don't mean I don't live in Newbury so that's what we just said we're g to make question 13 are you a Newbery resident and they click yes then the second question drops down which says which part of Newbury do you live in or they click no in which case they
don't tell us which part of Newberry they live right yep yeah okay that's the way to do it yes um how do you do that on a printed form same way could just say like if yeah if
no don't answer question right yeah right yeah okay all right yep let's put it in there then and so um are we getting rid of
um question 18 now yes yes I think so yeah yes okay that's fine all right uh okay think 20 is
good uh yes oh that's mandatory um okay whoa uh I don't think so question
X you don't want you don't want question that last one I I I don't know what would the results being just numbers yeah sum summary stats you know once maybe before we put
out the final so in my experience like when we've done surveys and stuff people really like to know the results like well I filled this survey out but what did it mean I never heard anything about it and some people not all but some people like yeah I want to know what the results are I want to know how I match
up with the rest of the town so if we had uh some results we could just send back an email saying uh I would suggest yeah what what I'm suggesting is that we
make the results available online yeah not because that creates a task for someone to do doesn't it sending it you know if somebody sends in the things somebody has to send it
back to them somebody has to monitor requests I'm just trying to set up a situation where it's self-actuated if you would like to see the results of the you know we uh that
will be noticed when they're because the results May take quite a long time to get put together they will for sure they will y uh that's I would just like to see the
owners taken off the planning department or us frankly to send it to them but to but the owners to be that we put up that it's available that makes
sense I think I see either way you could either post it on our website to really create one document as they enter the database it's automatically going to create an email list and then you just do one email and you just copy paste that one table or
one t you know link to the website yeah just a link just a link to the website yeah it'll just be a generic text that says click on this link to get your results yeah y I don't think it's a huge lift it's not like stuffing envelopes or
anything like that that's for sure well what about the people who don't you you see I live in the paper world what about the people who don't do it that way
you're they would click no yeah sure uh okay so so there's not an option for them to enter their email address on the written survey well if you can if you have email
then you should be able to link right you're going to get an email so you just you may have email but you may not I mean you may have accessed the survey just on a piece of paper yeah write in you can write it in you can write your email address in if yes write in your
email okay simp I mean somebody has to enter all the information anyway so no but then same same problem guys if if somebody writes in their email in the in the in the written
version right that they've picked up at tender prop Farm let's say now someone has to translate that email into a this what I'm trying to get away from I'm trying to say if you want it here's to
how to get it if if you're key punching the the paper data sheet that's just one more thing that needs to be key punched right I mean I imagine that we're just going to
be answering the survey several time I mean you'll have a pile of paper surveys and you'll just answer the survey 10 times online using that pile of paper surveys right oh maybe yeah probably I hadn't
thought through how it would get entered in but you're right maybe it is just doing the survey yeah and then just throw them away you don't need the paper after that but uh why don't we make the last question make it that and maybe it's not even a question and maybe it's
right above the thank you closing at the bottom there why don't we just say you know the the results of this survey will be available on the town of Newbury website in the in the future period Please Pro please provide your email
address if you would like to be informed when it's available that's just a courtesy or notified when it's available yeah and you know what that is um yeah we could encourage folks uh to sign up for the email list
for the open space committee again we could use like the closing yeah okay right yeah it for the map with the the last sentence there for a map of the walking trails or I just put that in because it
was an idea we came up with a lot like it we can keep it and add another sentence that says that was the that was the thank you sort of yeah right yeah um okay so the only other thing I
would ask is do we want to ask whether there are people who are volunteers for working so I didn't want to scare people away so my opinion was that this is just
a data Gathering exercise and that we should solicit volunteers as a separate effort from this one but that's just my opinion maybe just the presence of the survey itself will drop people to check out the web page and you know
seek further information yeah and and the results can take whatever form we want it to I mean I don't think I don't think it's a good idea to just put up all the raw data it'd be nice to have some charts and a
little bit of text around them saying looks like yeah I I right I um I think the phrase results of this survey needs to be tweaked a bit doesn't
it um maybe we can talk about that in our next meeting yeah yeah I agree I think we just landed on we're not doing that anymore anyway so yeah we're change the word to report rather than results or finding findings
findings yeah yes right yeah um and I I agree with you um Christina that yes it's too soon to ask for you know um people's muscles and help and so on
but I think using hopefully a Communications process that this starts is is the way to do it right because that way maybe you find out people who don't want to attend a
session like this one but love to get out there you know with um you know a rake or whatever and and work for a couple of hours because I think that would help to make this this
thing a livable a living kind of activity not just a plan that we put on a shelf okay sad are you still there with us I am um how comfortable do you feel at
this point I we've given you a lot I think think about i h I'm keeping track of all of our edits um I will make some changes and we can review again um maybe at the next meeting by
the next meeting I'll have like a better like a more finalized draft and we can go over it again right okay um and I think the other thing is you should obviously feel free to contact any or
all of us with something that you need help with in terms of you know you look at it and you think what the hell does that mean even though you wrote it or whatever because I find I do that I write something down then I think what
was I thinking okay um and S I took a lot of Notes too so I'm happy to help with this okay thank you yeah I appreciate that right and and um do do remember that that we can share
information uh but not action on opinions because sharing information with this kind of thing makes life you know much much simpler um gotcha yeah uh okay so um
anything else we need to do or can we adjourn do we need to um you talked about minutes Mike um we can defer reading the minutes to to our next physical meeting yeah I don't think they
went out for tonight so yeah there's been no review yet so I think we'll have the meeting the minutes from the February meeting and tonight's meeting the next meeting to right yeah I'm GNA say the minutes of tonight's meeting are
going I think going to either be almost one line we reviewed and revised questionnaire I don't know it's you've done so good so well in the past I leave it up to you as to how you want to
handle this in terms of you know meeting minutes um okay so next meeting date is going to be the whenever it is uh the 3D Tuesday
in uh do we have that already yeah I think I think it's the 18th the 18th are we all good with that yes y yep yeah okay all right that's only two
weeks now and it's 7 o'clock okay yes I think that was correct y okay all right and same place uh uh yes we we currently as I
understand it from um the booker and that is we're meeting in the um uh Council on Aging office where we met the last time uh because it is regularly booked for us now at 7:00 on
the third Tuesday of the month which I think we pretty well agreed last time made a a you know a a mark in the ground and if we need to shift it we can but um that way we can
plan better for what happens okay do I hear a move to [Music] adjourn yes move to adjourn
okay so the meeting is adjourned