Uh good evening. This is the Newberry Zoning Board uh meeting. Today is Thursday, November 11th, sorry, November 20th, 2025, 7:30 p.m. at the Newberry Municipal Office in Biffield, Mass. Uh, present tonight is Jack Kelly, a member,
Michelle Wadler, associate member, Chrissy Dupri, the CBA administrator, and, uh, my name is Mario Ovali, and I will be acting as the chair this evening. So, um, Jack, if you want to read the first one.
>> Very good. Uh, the first one is Michelle Lonzelo, 25 Harvard Way. The applicant is requesting a special permitfinding for relief from sections 97-4D5C1 increase in footprint and O2 increase of height of the new zoning bylaws and any
other relief as may be required under the town of Z new zoning bylaws to allow the proposed use project for additions and renovations to the existing dwelling which consists of an expanded deck, a screened in porch, an enclosed stair,
entry stair with mudroom and a new exterior stair up to a roof deck. The property located at 25 Harvard Way, Plum Island, Newbury, Mass 01951, Assessor's Map U1, lot 154B.
The project was approved with conditions at last hearing, approval decision to be drafted and reviewed at tonight's hearing. And this evening we received um email that Michelle Alonszo has requested a continuation for our next
meeting January 15th 2026. So anyone motion >> I'll make a motion to uh accept the applicant's uh request for continuence. >> Second >> second. >> All in favor? >> I motion passes. >> Thank you.
Uh the next item is uh 2-8 Oldpoint Road Sunset Club. Uh it's a discussion on minor versus major changes/modifications to a ZBA previously approved pavilion structure site plans which were submitted to the planning board. The
applicant has submitted photos of the proposed pavilion for review and there are a new set of photographs provided by the applicant for review at this hearing. Is there anything you want to say or
>> I think um the solution we came up with for the you know you guys suggested 25 to 35% open uh on the gable ends and um to us what really made the most sense was to do kind of a louvered um plank
that um I think you guys got the diagram but it was like a 5 in I believe slat at a 45 degree angle. bill um that would create uh 50% openness um which we think is um
reasonable and it would allow us to accomplish what we want um as far as blocking rain and um sunlight and stuff. So, and I think it would really create that sense of openness when you're driving up or looking at it in the
street. Was it the the the picture I saw looked like it was actually like a metal kind of structure? I mean, are you you mentioned planks? Is it Are you thinking about vertical horizontal planks? >> Yeah. Not what you kind of submitted.
>> Um I thought what was submitted was the um >> it looked like an enclosed kind of >> this factored prefabricated. >> Yeah. So that's just kind of showing the angle that they'd be at. It wouldn't be enclosed or anything. It would be >> just planks.
>> Planks that were fixed at that um angle. >> Okay. >> So, it would allow air to pass through and light to pass through. Um and it would, you know, it would be more than 25 or 35%. But it would still accomplish what we really want for protection.
But it would they would go all the way across. Obviously, they would get smaller as they go up from the peak, but um you know, it would be just like the clabboard look on the gable ends uh that we showed before, except they would
angle 45°. Okay. And I'll uh Eric has submitted a comment, so let me read that out loud. >> Okay. >> Uh Chrissy, I've received the new renderings of the proposed gable end lures for the Sunset Club. In my absence, please provide the following comments for the board's consideration. I believe that those changes to the
gable ends are minor. Pavilion sides and locations are not changing. Open sides below the eaves remain consistent. The submitted site plan is unaffected. The proposal to enclose the gable ends above the eve line prompted discussion regarding openness light leakage air
flow. In my view, enclosing the gable lens would benefit both the pavilion and the surrounding properties by reducing light leakage. At our last meeting, I suggested a percentage of openness as a middle ground between fully enclosed and fully open. I believe this can effectively achieve with either vertical
or horizontal boards looking to looking to a traditional building as precedent. I feel it's acceptable for those boards to be placed either in front or behind of the end truss. After reviewing the proposed metal grill, I think that's
that kind of the picture you kind of saw. I believe the louvers moved the design into an unintended direction, giving the pavilion a contemporary appearance that conflicts with the simplicity of the original concept. While I appreciate the efforts work collaboratively with the ZBI now field
and closing the gate lens with boards without louvers provides the best overall aesthetic and functional solution, thank you for considering comments. >> Uh, thank you Mario. And one thing I think we slipped on, I know we know who you are, but for the record, can you state who you are?
>> Oh, yeah. Sorry. Jeff Christensen, former. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Uh, discussions, questions. >> Um, I still like the idea of having it partially open. So, I think Eric's saying he's sort of okay having it fully
enclosed. I guess I disagree with that. I think it's still I I prefer to still have it partially opened. Um I think I'm thinking of this differently now. You know, when we first saw this, you know, I think we were thinking this was actually going to be placed in, you know, a louver like this into the cable
lens. I didn't even really know how that was going to work. But um I mean it it allows it allows air flow or light through, which to me I think is the most important thing is that you can see through it. Um I wonder
>> my only concern is um >> I don't really when it's up high like this. >> Yeah, it looks it looks enclosed. >> Yeah, >> I guess. So like I was sort of thinking in my mind when people were talking about clabards that it was something sort of like this that just very simple
um you know so that you can still >> see through >> see through it and you won't get direct light direct sun like it's still protected similar to I think you have a you have some other structures on your property that um are sort of like um trelluses right that protect a little
bit actually maybe you don't Um, >> we actually have horizontal louvers on the shed >> bar um that when it like it's got um like flaps that can open when it's closed they actually have the
horizontal lvers on there. >> Yeah. >> As well. It's like a Bermuda blind whatever they call them. >> You just can't turn it with the rod but they're fixed >> at an angle. Um, as far as other structures, I mean, we really just have
the garage doors and we've got like the >> posts and the sails. >> Yeah. Okay. I don't know why I was thinking there was like a troll. But anyways, um I guess yeah, when I when I saw the conversation from last month, I wasn't sorry, but um and everyone was
talking about clabers, I thought, oh, that's like a really good solution. So, um, but yeah, in my mind that meant for not on an angle, either just vertical, horizontal, but like I think you know Mario maybe mentioned the skinny end
>> is sort of the visible end. >> Yep. Yeah. I guess I mean what we prefer would be >> to have the gables completely closed, >> right? >> Just for protection again from the sun uh the sunset getting in people's eyes and the rain and whatnot. >> But you're the sunset club. Isn't that
the point? >> And and I think by closing that um it changes the overall feel of the structure from like an open pavilion to something like a covered room or even a small building when you close everything. And I think that was not our
expectation that it was going to be kind of look like another building. It was more just going to be an open pavilion kind of to you know if you're having you know a party out there that you can move people in. not to say, okay, hey, you know, now we have this covered building, now we're just going to like have
functions there all the time. Um, and it was more of a, you know, per incident, not like on a everyday basis that you would continue to have, you know, schedule things rain or shine. >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's it might be
utilized on a regular basis, but it's meant mostly for the events um to have that extra space just >> like we mentioned before for inclement weather. >> Um if someone wants to do a partial bio, we call it um if there's even a threat
of rain and forecast, that whole event has to get moved into the garage area and the whole we have to close to the public. So, >> this way it allows us to stay open. >> Yeah. And and again, I think our concern was making this kind of building appearance versus an open pavilion.
Yeah. I think that was our goal. >> Yeah. I think when >> less permanent. Yeah. >> Yeah. When we first approved it, it was the idea that it was it was a pavilion. It was more of a roof structure like Mario said, not an actual building. And once you start closing in the sides,
even the gable ends, I think it starts becoming a more permanent building. and you just happen to be in a very pivotal location where people come over the island, this is the first thing they see. So, I think we're very aware of sort of what that looks like. >> Yeah.
>> Um like the the property across the street from you was before us and we spent a really long time on >> restaurant. >> Yeah. Yeah. Where the mountain grill is. We spent a really long time on aesthetics and what that was going to look like um in terms of massing and
feeling because it is such a pivotal view when you come over the island. >> Sure. Yeah. >> Um >> I was thinking when we had our discussion last week, I was expecting, you know, I think this chairman stated it pretty well. The louver concept sort
of shifts it in an unintended direction that none of us were expecting. Um I was expecting after our conversation with compromise last week sort of a board and batten scenario without the baton just the boards whether horizontally or vertically I don't think that's a huge
factor but that's kind of what I was expecting not what we've got so I don't know I think can we are we agreed that the louver thing is a non-starter >> I I would agree with you because I think it kind of takes all the light out. I mean, from that picture there, there is
no light. It just looks like >> a wall almost. >> Yeah. >> So, what's your thought, Jack? Um, >> well, I'm not sure that the with all due respect, I'm not sure that the applicant presented us what we asked for or or that you understood it the same way we
did. Um, so maybe we could I mean, I hate to make this poor guy keep coming back, but but I don't think we got what we asked for. And I think we have a little bit gone out of our way to to approve something that, you know, we approved a partial closing and we initially thought it was going to be
open. So, it's not like we're not trying to work with you, but I'm not sure we've seen >> what we asked for. Am I saying that correctly? >> Yeah. You mean something to your to your rendition? Um, Jack, is that what you're talking about? >> Yeah. Like a board and bat is, you know, boards with a one over them in the middle and
>> either horizontals or verticals. I guess you guys can decide. And that's what Michelle drew >> quickly and neatly. >> Yeah. I guess for functionality that's really going to make it's not the direction that
would provide function for us. So um >> what about horizontal ones? >> Um >> that's what it looks like in your pictures. >> I mean that's what it is. It's just they're angled slightly. So, it's really to try to deflect rainfall, you know,
coming in from the sides as best we can. We're not allowed to put sides on it, as we all know. Um, >> so whatever we can do to to block the elements and the glare um is really the goal um for when people are, you know, seated or having a
ceremony or whatever it is underneath there. >> Would you say an angle greater 45 would be better then? >> Like if it was more Well, I mean, you know, we have to do some serious math, but I don't think there's I know it says in the picture that it's whatever percentage open, but it sure doesn't
look like it. Looks like a solid wall of wood. You know that. So, there no light coming through. So, you know, it's 5 in 4 in wide. >> It's the angle of the >> where you're standing or >> Yeah. The blade angle is 40. There's a 45° angle. Excuse me, 45%.
>> Yeah. From far away, you're not going to see any light, right? But if you're standing on the ground looking up, you will see the light. >> Yeah. But you're just looking at the roof. I mean, our whole idea was, you know, you're sitting coming over the bridge, you have some openness, you know, cuz or else it's just a wall. >> And that's kind of what we didn't want
with the roof, you know, when it was pivoted the other way. You come over and all you saw was the roof. And that's not really what um again, what it looks like a building now, another big building, and not an open pavilion. Well, I guess and it goes back to I don't mean to try
to come up with sneaky ideas, but when you guys suggested the, you know, the gaps, I said, "Well, what's going to prevent us from putting a a pull down shade behind?" It's not a permanent fixture. And I guess there's nothing to prevent that cuz it's not part of the building. So, even if we had it
completely open and we wanted to pull down shade once in a while, it would still block the light from coming out, I guess. Um, so I mean I don't I'm not saying that's what we want to do, but um trying to just think proactively about
functional solutions. You we did also I had mentioned earlier today about potentially extending the short roof line out um you know so then you know you wouldn't have you'd be protected from the rain for sure. I don't know how far you'd have to go out
to catch the sun. >> Like past the trusses. >> Past the trusses. Yeah. >> To an overhang. >> Yeah, an overhang. I've seen some of those on other buildings. >> Yeah. >> Um and they do, you know, they clearly do stop the rain. >> Yeah. >> Um >> I I'm not sure. Obviously, we, you know,
are building this on a um we have a budget in mind. >> Sure. >> I know this the company that we're using. It's kind of like, >> you know, hey, what size do you want? It's all prefab. It's >> all prefab. So if it would it would add a custom element to the job, might be kind of costly, but I'm not sure okay >> if that would be the case, but I would
imagine so just cuz it's kind of a some of these are kind of out of the box kind of jobs, but we certainly could. Um I think aesthetically that would look nice um also. So we could certainly explore that. >> Yeah, I think maybe what we're saying is
if you can explore a couple more renditions and you know, present to the board again. Again, you know, this is not our intent to have you come back three times. We just want to get it right for everybody. >> Yeah. Especially because there's no meaning next month. >> It's the first thing when you see when
you come on. >> I know. You're just such a pivotal point, you know, that it it does make a difference to the neighborhood, I think, what what you end up building here. >> Sure. Um I own I own 12 homes surrounding it. I care what it looks like. >> Yeah.
Um I I mean I've been trying to think of other solutions also. Um I mean I'm trying to think of like a transparent material or something even though unfortunately over time that sometimes gets kind of gross looking.
Um, you know, it can get dirty and it can get um, but I guess that would block out that would block out rain, but still visually would look open and you could still I guess the sun it wouldn't solve that problem,
but it would block out rain. >> Yeah, something like that. Um, I think I would be open to, you know, I'm used to exploring and pivoting and, you know, coming up with it. So, um I just I'm not going to make that call
for the other um people involved uh tonight. You know, I know we all really wanted to push for the close, but I I know there has to be a compromise. >> So, would you be instead of outright rejecting it, should we just give a continuence? >> Yeah. And I I would I would recommend
that we have like a number of options, not just two or three, you know, like let's come up with some options and we can say, "Hey, this looks great." Okay. Motion. >> I make a motion that we continue the hearing to allow the applicant to uh
explore some other avenues and come back to us. >> January to excuse me. >> I don't know if we have the right to I don't know if we have the right to wait >> cuz the we meet the third Tuesday of the month. So even though there's nothing new, I think we have to get >> Oh, December 18th.
>> December 18. >> Normally regularly scheduled. >> Sorry, we thought we were going to have a meeting. >> We don't have anything new. Is that enough time for you? Uh >> oh, certainly. I would be sorry. >> So, thank you. Good Chissy. So, so my the motion is amended to uh have meet
here at the Newbury Town Hall Thursday, December 18th, 7:30. >> Okay. >> I guess just the other thing too is on the agenda it says discussion on minor versus major change. I think we've all agreed it's a minor change. >> Yeah. So, we don't we don't need to talk on that point
anymore. I think we all agree because a major change would be like a whole different process. So, I think we're all agreed it's a minor change. >> Second. >> Yeah. Second. >> All in favor? >> All right. Thank you. Let's get it done. Thanks.
>> Just submit a week before the the Thursday before for supplemental. Thanks, Jeff. >> Thank you. >> I don't think we have anything else. Anything else? >> So, sorry. But so for the first item though, is that also continued to next month now that we're going to be here?
>> No, she specifically requested I gave her the option and she said that's not enough time. So she chose the 15th of January. >> Correct. But it is in her letter requesting this 15th. >> So it's only we only have that >> just that minor discussion. >> All right.
>> Uh I make a motion to close the meeting. All >> in favor? Meeting's closed.