Thanks everybody for being here today. Um >> I think we'll we'll open the meeting. So I'll need a motion to open the meeting. >> Motion to open. Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> uh this is a joint meeting with the ad hoc committee. So Damon, want to open
your meeting? >> Uh if I could draw a motion to open the meeting. Where did my members go? Second. >> Uh, all those in favor? >> Okay, we'll start with the pledge of allegiance to the flag.
>> I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. start up. Um, I just wanted to get some
information before we started. Okay. Um, if you just indulge me for a minute, if if anyone here actively participates as a volunteer or a guest or user of the Council on Aging,
would you just raise your hand? Great. And I know Damon, you had open sessions of your committee. Um, if anyone here attended the open session or send email correspondence to that group
to Damon with suggestions and ideas or telephone messages, any communication Damon's advocac committee, would you please raise your hand? >> Okay, so just a couple people. Thanks, Fred. Next question. Um
I I my expectation is that um you know this is going to be a good chance for everyone to understand what this committee did and how they did it. And I just know that everybody should be tolerant of each other. Okay? We should
listen carefully. I intend to listen. I intend to take notes, careful notes. We may not be able to answer every question today. If we don't, we'll have it in notes. I encourage the select board members to help me. I'm not a stenographer, so they can take notes as
well. So, let's be civil to each other. And uh I'll let Damon take over and introduce what what uh what's this is all about. So, thank you all for joining us today on this uh bitter cold morning. Uh I will be walking through the report
that the ad hoc committee created. I'll go over our methodology and our results. Then I will discuss the next steps as related to the potential for a future building. As many of you know, the COA was housed in the Newbury Elementary School for a long time. When it moved to
12 Kent Way, there was grant money to cover the new expense. The prospect of forking over taxpayer money for a space that does not meet the needs of the growing older population in Newbury did not sit well with us. So we created a group to look at what was needed and
where it might be able to be built. After speaking with the select board, the ad hoc committee for site selection was formed. The charge of the committee was to assess the program needs of the COA and then vet various locations within the town of Newbury. The committee was formed by two members of
the COA staff, Cynthia Courier and Kathleen Zeremba, as well as two members of the COA board, John Ferrara and myself. Our first step was to review the previous space needs assessment. Using this as a starting point, we identified areas where we needed to expand or
deepen the program. And then we broke into two groups. The staff was charged with assessing the current space needs and imagining what we might need as the population that the COA serves continues to grow. The board members looked
outside the town to see what other communities were doing to see if there were things that we needed to consider or needed to avoid. From this work, we developed a program needs list with corresponding space requirements. We then assigned approximate square footage estimates to each function. To validate
our assumptions, we sought guidance from Eric Swan and Bob Connors, who had both served on the committee charged with bringing the police station in on budget and are in the building profession. After incorporating their recommendations, we concluded that the COA would require a building of
approximately 10,000 square feet with the potential for a site with the potential for a larger building given site constraints could go up to as much as 14,000 square ft. With this size range in mind, we began looking for lots
in town that could accommodate a building of this size. We had already spoken with the town planner, but we asked again for her assistance and that of the principal assessor. We got a list of all town owned property and began to sort them for viability. Locations like the landlocked parcel in
the middle of Martin Burns were discarded as unusable as were large sections and of unbuildable marsh. At the same time, we asked for suggestions from the public. Once we had a list of viable sites, we created a scoring matrix to rate each site suggestion. The
scoring matrix was weighted to give higher scores to the items which the staff identified as being the most important. The highest weight was given the lot size, meaning the lot could fit a building of the size we needed and have the parking necessary to have a
functional space. Having experienced the boost in walk-in traffic in moving from the elementary school to being adjacent to town hall, proximity to other town functions was given extra weight as well. Making the COA convenient and accessible was paramount to helping it
serve its members. I asked everyone to score each site independently. We then discussed the results to see if we had a consensus or were wildly off on any of the parameters. I then took the scores, some of which had been modified a little given insights gleaned from discussion
and total them and created a summary report. This report was brought before the COA board where more edits occurred and because my father likes to say we is always smarter than me. Once the report was accepted by the COA board, the ad
hoc committee had finished its work and presented to the select board for discussion. There are many things outside the purview of the ad hoc committee such as when and where a new h town hall will be built or if a new fire station is being
built. These would naturally have an impact on our recommendation. In lie of a crystal ball, we can only recommend based on what we know. We recommend that the COA be built adjacent or attached to the library. Being adjacent to another town function is extremely important to
the COA. Having sufficient space to run programs is extremely important. This site is already owned by the town, is adjacent to another town function, can overlap and share spaces, has sufficient parking, has access to outdoor spaces that are healthy and safe. It is not a
perfect solution, but it is a really good solution. The next steps in moving this process forward is I hope the select board will accept the report of the ad hoc committee and allow it to be submitted into the record at town meeting. with an addition with any or additions
or edits that they would like to see made. I would then expect the COA to present the report at the annual town meeting for discussion much like what I hope will happen today. I would then like the town to fund a feasibility study to take what we have done and put real numbers behind it. As a committee,
we did not have the expertise necessary to flag wetlands or look at engineering or any of the other specialized skills that would be required in building and design. I believe that if the town authorized the spending of $250,000, we
could get a proposal that would vet out all of our ideas and give us a building that we could move forward with. Thank you very much. I'll turn it back over to the chair. >> Thanks. Thanks, Damon. Um, what what I thought we'd try to do this
morning is try to break this into three parts. Damon went through the totality of it, but I'd like to break it into why, how, and what. Damon spoke about why. He spoke about how. Okay. So, I think I'd like to ask and and trust me,
I we value your input. That's why you're here. We're looking for your input. We're looking for your thoughts. You know, we're not trained speakers. Don't be afraid to go to the podium and identify yourself and give your address. You know, we're all we're all neighbors.
We're all citizens of New. As far as why this the assessment was done, does anyone have any comments about why it was done or suggestions or they'd like to put out for everybody to
hear? Frank, come on up. >> Would be in range of camera there, I think. Frank. Okay. Um Frank Bolino. I attend Maple Terrace here in Newbury. Um I first off I'd like to say um we have an amazing staff here
at at our senior center. Um someday I'll be a senior myself and WE'LL But seriously, I just wanted to see if y'all were listening. Um seriously, um we have a great staff here. When you come here, you feel welcome. you feel like you're like you're at your family's
home and that's really really important. Um but we're limited space, very limited. It's a great step up from where we were but limited space and um it's it's it's a shame that you know you have we have some events here, we have some events over at the field. Um it would be
awesome to have our own home. Um so I love what you what what what the what the committee has done. um I think would be important. I you know I I I been I'm in the Lions Club and we do a lot with the senior Newport Lions Club.
We do a lot with the U senior center new report. Spectacular. If you've not been I highly suggest you go and I I'd love to see how stuck stuck people go and just see what they do there. Um there's everything there right down to low
vision groups meet there. Just it's it's everything. It's a home away from home. That would be wonderful. We have an aging community. Um, it's it's it's it's not going to let up. We're all going to continue to to to age. Um,
please take this for what it's worth. I'm not I don't think I don't think our town fathers and our community give us enough and look at us the way we should be looked at. Um
most most of you all were born here. Yeah, I happen to be from Salsbury and Glouester, but most of you all were born here and um the respect the thank you I think would be if we had our own facility next to the library would be
wonderful. I think that's a great loca location. Um, you know, could you could actually maybe drop drop your grandkids off at the library for a story hour and go to the senior senior center. I think that'd be great. I think the the old town hall, if that was to be raised and
turned into a spot, that's that's also a nice spot. But that's my feeling and I'd love to hear everyone else's feelings as well. Um, a great report. I I I think you came about it the right way as a as a commercial realtor. I mean, I would have approached it that way as well. So,
um, thank you. Thank you. Well, listen to me. >> Thanks, Frank. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else? >> I forgot to do some housekeeping duties here. If you haven't been here before, if anything happens, obviously, you can leave to that front door. You can leave
through this door where that wreath is. It'll take you into where the town clerk is, and you can wind your way outside the back door of the building. If you need to go to the restroom, go out the front door. Aim for the town clerk's office. There's
there are restrooms on the right hand side side of the wall. Okay. So, um that's my housekeeping duties. Um and and by the way, we're not here we're not doing any deliberation here today. We're
not doing any voting for anything here today. The sole purpose of you being here is to give us input. Give us your thoughts. Your thoughts are important to us. Okay. So, as far as the why is concerned,
does anyone have any and and please if anyone is on Zoom, Tracy's going to see if any hands are raised? And we obviously we want to entertain input from the people that are joining us on on Zoom as well. So
>> anything? >> So you don't really know Mr. Chair. >> Okay. Thanks. I don't we don't see anything. So now in terms of Damon explain how they approached the situation. Um,
does anyone have feelings or thoughts about how that could have been done better or whether it was done okay or any advice at all or any comments about how that team went about the task of identifying space needs and and uh their
their ranking system and >> please um >> please Thank you. >> What were the criteria for this? What kind of
>> So, uh, when you say this, I'm assuming you mean the ranking of the spaces. So, we ranked, we measured or looked at the, uh, would the building fit on the lot was one of the principal criterias.
Was there easy parking? Uh, did it have outdoor space that was accessible and safe? Um, did it have street access? So, some of the sites are visible from the street
and some are not. Uh, access to utilities, power, water, and sewer or the ability to put in septic. um proximity to other town functions. So
the COA noticed a an increase when they moved down here from the school in foot traffic that stopped in and they saw this was extremely valuable because having people uh
seek out the COA just for the COA sometimes a little challenging. But if you're coming in to pay your taxes and you see that it's right there, people will stop in. And so that uh crosspollination was very useful. And then we also weighed the cost of the
site. So if we would have to purchase the property uh that was a factor in how we waited them. >> May I ask a question about another large building and connect it to Council on Aging? >> Of course. Uh the new police station,
how much vacant unused space do they have in that building approximately? >> Uh I have no idea. >> A little bit. A lot. >> I think much I think might be able to answer question.
>> Uh they are at capacity. >> Really? >> Yes. Because when I when I go in there, I fre I frequent the police department. >> Sometimes not voluntarily. >> Um it looks like there's like one office
and then they have that big uh meeting room. >> There is a meeting room uh that is there. >> Should I should I come up? >> Sure. Sure. >> It's a very good question. It's a meeting room.
Uh Bob Connor's 39 Annapolis Way at the police station. We have a a meeting room and it's used for emergency emergency matters. It's used for training. the public can use it for certain ad hoc events, but primarily during an
emergency, a catastrophic event on Plum Island is where all the interstate and national agencies would convene >> and and then run it as a command center. >> Okay. But um my point was about the entire building. Um what do they have
for unused, little used space? They they're using the attic at this point. Uh the building was built very efficiently. The original proposal I think was 19,000 square ft and it became
a 10,000 ft building with some very good storage in the in the attic. So it's probably one of the smallest most efficient police stations certainly in Essex County. My idea behind this and sometimes I have
to explain myself or want to explain myself is I look at it as a big building with a lot of unused space. This is for someone who you know honestly has not spent that much time in the police station and I said why not take that
unused space and convert it to council and agent but obviously that's not going to work. Okay, moving right along. >> Can I Yes, Mr. Chair, can I respond to that? Um, >> I suggest that you go to the police station and talk to the police chief or
the deputy chief and have them give you a tour. >> That's your police station. >> Oh, I would have never thought of that. You'll see how they confine things at this space because it >> you know honestly in spite of my
joiality I've been in the police station one time for a lecture put on by the council on aging with the FBI agent. >> We're very very proud of that building. So I really strongly recommend that you go down and get the tour. They'll be happy to give you the tour. >> We have plenty of room in detention. We
sing most underutilized section of the police station, unfortunately. But >> is it in better condition than the two old jail? >> Well, I I don't know if we want to spend a night there, but >> and I and I will add that um everybody
that's here today, everybody is welcome to go down and take that same exact tour. And it I highly recommend it as well. If you talk to our chief, she probably on a monthly basis is giving tours of her facility to other police
chiefs that are undertaking building a police station. >> She's very approachable, >> Mr. Chairman. >> Yes. >> Um, I just want to say thank you for the idea. Even though it's not something that may turn into anything, I think
that's why we want to have these meetings so that people can express their questions, have them answered, or if we can't answer them right away, get them answered or if we find an idea that's really worth pursuing, we can do more work in pursuit. So, I appreciate you standing up and and bringing that
forward. >> Thank you. >> I I did want to follow up on the on Bill's comments about the overview of the ad hoc committee. So, >> no, I had something else. I'll see you in detention.
>> I taught school. I put you there. >> So, I I just like to say again, Bob Connor, 39 Annapolis Way. I had the the pleasure of sitting in on some of the ad hoc committee meetings and I just wanted to share with you I'm a contractor. We do institutional work. We deal with all
types of big projects and I want to thank the committee and Damon and everyone else on the committee. The level of detail that has been provided from an ad hoc committee is usually only what you get when you have an architectural firm initiating the start
process here. So the amount of work that you've done, the detail, the site examinations, the space needs, parking requirements, interfacing with other buildings is simply extraordinary. And you've done yman's work on that. I think
the the remaining work is how much is this going to cost? I mean, at the end of the day, you know, we all like brand new cars, but sometimes we keep another car around for a few more years because we don't want to spend the money. the next step which is requesting the $250,000
funding to be able to do the conceptual drawings which will then give you the real number plus or minus say 20%. But that will give you the square foot cost. It'll give you a projected cost which is basically
current. But remember all costs in in uh values 6 months to a year looking back. So you can't really say this is what something is going to cost because it's you're looking in the rear view to determine what other monies have been spent. So I just wanted to offer that.
But again, thank you Damon. This is an amazing amount of work. Uh and I for one appreciate it. So thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks a lot. >> Mr. Chair, will you finish? Did you have anything else that you wanted to say here? >> Yeah. No, you're good.
Um, >> David, >> let's let's uh David, come on. >> David Powell, five Kent way. So, you can wave at me as you leave.
Uh, let me first say that this is the way that we should be doing things. Uh, and I'm I'm I I I really think that everyone associated with this and the impetus that went into doing this should
be feel very proud of themselves because this is one of the best things I've seen in this town in a long time in terms of reaching out to community and inviting people. Um, however,
and everybody on this group knows that there's always a however when I stand up here. Um, one of the things that did disturb me was I was a little concerned to find out that somehow, and I don't
understand why, and I'd like a brief explanation as to how Andover was cited as a community similar to Newbury. And the reason why I stand here and ask that question is I had a
business in Andover for over a decade and I know that community intimately and it's nothing like Newbury at all. Okay. It has a totally different tax base. It
has a population of twice that of Newbury Court. And I know something personally about the history of the the center there uh which services the elderly population. So can anyone
explain how come Andover came into that? >> Uh I think Andover came in because it is nearby and we could talk to them. uh it's not a direct comparison and there are very few communities that uh have
the limited amount of business to residential ratio that we have that have our tax basis. It's not there are no perfect comparisons and so it's one of the places we have a connection to so we could talk.
Well, I think it gives you a very false idea, frankly. Um, because the center is in a repurposed building which was built a long time ago. It was always a essentially a center downtown.
It was originally a school. >> Okay. It's right next to the town offices and a school. Um, it has totally different history. So anything you may have drawn from there I I think has to
be looked at with a really jaunted eye. If you're interested in towns across the state which do resemble Newbury in terms of population in terms of the kind of housing etc. Ironically, the open space
committee on which I'm currently serving um one of the things that I've done is to develop a number of those towns. Now I can't say whether they have uh elder centers or council on aging but I do know that for example we are much more
like places like Stowe or Shirley or places like that than we are like an industrial or business-based community. And so one needs to be careful in terms
of where you draw your analysis from. Okay. And I just would want >> a fair >> us to go ahead with that sort of portion. Thanks, >> David. Thank Thanks for your input. That's really really good input. Um um
I'm trying to think of a diplomatic way how to say this, but I wish this suggestion came a year ago while they were doing this planning. Okay. Would have been more >> useful. timing of it would would be more
essential to for the outcome of the report I think but we understand exactly what you mean and and notes have been taken. >> Okay. And as you move on today just so I can get ahead of the game slightly when
you get if you do to discussing the number one selection here. Um, as a longtime past member of the planning board, I was pretty intimately involved in the land which is actually opposite my
house, which is what you're proposing very sensibly as the the best place. So, I'd like to talk to that. >> I'm sure that when we come to that, you back at the podium. >> Great. Thank you. >> Thanks very much, David.
Please, >> Fred Thuro, 28 26 Marsh Avenue. Good to see you, David. I haven't seen you in ages. Um, Bob, where's Bob? You know, a lot of us don't like new cars. Take me back when they had breather
windows, no automatic locks. You can have your new car. No engine lights. >> You can have a big screen to distract. No, I don't want to. But um back to the subject.
You know, Newport has a terrific really they do have a terrific uh senior center. I worked in Marlin for 30 31 years. Population of 65,000 people. New reported a population of what 19,000 has a better senior center than Leon. They
have a terrific senior center and unfortunately a lot of people from Oldtown that I know use the new report senior center because this is so out of the way over here for them. And I think location is very
important in this this library doesn't do the business it should because people from Plum Island and people from Oldtown use the New Report public library. This is kind of out of the way in relation to the rest of the town. Same
thing with the town offices. I mean, hey, we got a good deal actually. We have a great deal for the rental on the on this building, but it's it's out of the way for a lot of the town. And I think we would be much better off to
have a location more central to Palm Island, Oldtown, and Bfield. >> This is not it. Now, I understand we own the property and that's a cost issue, but I think maybe a location issue is more important
than a cost issue. And as probably most of you know, I have supported for some time reusing the old town hall as the site for for the senior center. And one of the questions I I do
have some questions here. One of the questions I have is how how did you come about the space needs? What what are you what what are you putting in the building? >> Um
the program needs for the building. I don't know if Cindy you would like to talk to this or you want me to to do it. Oh, thank you. Um I don't actually have the full program list in front of me but you know uh
commercial chick kitchen where food can be served and prepared safely. Uh we have a meeting space for activities. Are you going to give me the whole list? >> It's in the report. >> Oh yeah.
>> I did not have a chance to look. >> Okay. So, it's all detailed in this report what we were looking for. >> Um, sorry, I'll come over here. >> No. >> Um, >> Cindy Courier, I'm the director here at the council on aging. So,
>> right now we have, you can see this small room in the front, kind of like a conference room size. >> Sure. >> And then this room here, >> and that's where I can put on programs. I do have to have exercise classes scheduled over at the fieldhouse. I can't have a yoga class. I could fit the
yoga class in this room. Absolutely. But when you think of a yoga class or a Tai Chi class or something like that, having people coming in and out, phones ringing, staff walking around responding to residents that are coming in, it's not conducive to what a yoga class or
Tai Chi class should be. We've tried to do it in the front room with a yoga class, with your mats, with your stretching. >> It's not big enough for what we what our needs are. So that's why we use the fieldhouse. We've actually outgrown the fieldhouse a little bit with our yoga
class. If I have 10 or 12 people there, that room, if you've been in there, is not a perfect square. There's a little cutout for the kitchen area. So, we will go over to the library um at some times to have a yoga class over there. So, we're trying our best to fit our
programs where we can. I also want to be able to offer multiple programs at the same time depending on the program. when I have a a tech class in here that is a very loud class. The instructor um Bernie Brookman in there, he speaks very
loudly. So, it's difficult to have something in there that's a little bit more quiet. We do have our art classes in there. We have knitting out here. Sometimes we have to squeeze knitting in there. If I have a big group of maong, they come out here. If it's a smaller group, we can fit them in there. I never
know. Um, a lot of our our groups are drop in groups. So, I don't know that there's definitely going to be 20 people from Maong and I have to set it up up here instead of in there. So, we everything we do is mobile. All of our these are different tables. All of our tables are on wheels. We're moving furniture for every program. How we set
up for Maong is different than how we set up for um a lunchon that we're having or bingo or knitting or any of the plethora of programs that we're offering. So, we would like more space to be able to offer you folks more programs at the same time. That's part that was part of our the method
thinking. >> What about are you are you throwing outside space into this and and for what? >> I would love to have outside space. >> And for what purpose? >> So, something even as simple as you can come and read the paper outside on like a patio type. We'd like to have uh
access to like a walking area. We Kathy would love to do a walking club. We initially looked at going to Plum Island in the summer to do a walking club and the police department actually asked us not to do that. They felt that that would be a little bit risky for us to be walking. We were going to start at uh Peter Hall.
>> Hey, walking is good for everybody. >> It's it's great for everybody, but we need to do it safely. >> We weren't doing it here when um the fertility clinic was here. They constantly had deliveries. >> Yeah. >> We were trying to figure out how could we do it here. So, we're trying to find if we could do an outdoor, you know,
whether it's horseshoes or cornhole or something, >> maybe shuffle boards. I think Newbury Port has they might have a shuffle board courthouse outside some some kind of cord out botchi. No, maybe botchi. >> Botchi. >> Okay. So, there's different outdoor activities. Um, but we even do um we do
meals with the fire department. We've done last year they came and cooked on their grills and we had to bring all the food in here. It' be kind of nice if we had a setup that we could eat outside. Right now, my option would be in our new quonet hut. Um, but I have to ask permission to do anything outside here.
We don't own anything here. So, if I want to have a food truck come here, if I want to have the fire department set their grills up. If I want to have a food truck in this little lot, I have to go through Tracy, who has to go through R.J. Kelly to get approval for anything that we do outside. So, I I don't have
any access outside here. But you're not looking for for instance uh pickle ball courts. >> No, because we could utilize what we have over at the >> Okay, good. Good. Because that was going to be my point. If you were going to say that, I was going to say that >> that might be past say in 10 years.
Number one, and number two, we should be using whatever the town has elsewhere. >> We don't want to duplicate. >> Yeah, I don't want to duplicate. >> Cindy, did you include space for the table? >> Yeah. Right. So there there could be a possibility for a game room.
>> We could we could try and fit that in having Fred was very kind and was willing to uh donate a pool table here, but I don't have the space to be able to understand to do that. So I would love to have a room where we could offer I know Newports uh has a very popular pool room. >> So how much space is available at the
old town hall? What? What? >> Will we be getting to look at the old town hall as part of the studies of the different >> Yes. 25 road was examined. >> Yes. Yeah. I'm ignorant. I haven't read that. >> Yeah. Can we can we hold that and we
when we get to that part of the discussion different locations? >> Okay. >> Because it's online and it'll answer a lot. >> Yeah. >> And Cindy, >> um >> I don't do online. Maybe I'm mistaken. >> Don't you have people from Newport who
attend events here? >> I have people from Newport. I have people from Rowley Georgetown. We have one woman who comes here from Gloucester to play Maong because our group is so popular. I don't turn people away. Um our focus is new seniors. When I have
very popular programs, new seniors get priority. For example, our big holiday lunchons, they get priority. But um we certainly have people come um from different towns because of what we offer. I think that's part of it. There's something at Newport that's drawing people there. We have people who
go to a tap class or a line dancing class. That's something we don't offer. >> Um you should utilize the different COAs in the area. There might be something in Rowley or Georgetown that you like. >> Um and it's worth it. It's it's worth it to reach out.
The the whole purpose for all of us, any COA is going to tell you, is the socialization aspect. Learn something new, meet new people, have a nice meal with someone. It's important to stay engaged. It it's it'solation is deadly. >> So, join us. Join another one. I don't
I'm I'm I'm just happy to have people come and and PARTICIPATE and in support of of David Powell's comments and overrowley or salsbury is pretty pretty pretty needed in comparison to
uh but the others are not. I'll reserve any other comments for later. Fred, thank you very much for your input and um you know feel free to come back. Yep. I think you had >> my jam 35. Real quick question. I just wanted to
ask if it would have been possible for the like new COA to partner with the Newport COA and have activities there since that building is so big and it is it's a beautiful building. I've been in there for horiculture.
Is that even a possibility for us to partner with them rather than build a new standalone building in Newbury? Uh because my concern is on the impact to property taxes because we all know we
need a new fire station in Oldtown. You know, I work the elections there. It's a not a good spot. It's I think I've read it's out of compliance anyway. So I think we need to fund that first. So what can we do in the meantime with
like Council on Aging Programs? >> Um I don't believe that that building is out of compliance. Tracy, can you speak is that building out of compliance in terms of I don't know what is in terms of compliance of what? >> Well, is there other showers there for the firemen to take showers when they
come back? >> I'm I'm sorry. Now I know essentially this is not an attempt. My question was was there a possibility I like your questionner within the report council. >> Have you looked at regionalization? >> We have not
regionalization question. Can you look into that? >> We could look into it but it comes with pros and cons because we regionalize our school district. >> Um we regionalize a couple of things. Yeah, everything has pros and cons.
>> So, but we could look into it. >> It's an excellent question, excellent idea. Thank you for >> because it's a big, you know, it's a big beautiful building here. It might tie us over for a while. >> Thank you. Thanks, M. >> Yes, please.
Thank you. Uh Chris Cernic, resident participant and um uh on the board of the friends of the COA. So, lots of different things and former president of the board of the Newbury Court COA. So, I come with uh
some information in my head. Um, I love the comments that people have made about the possibility of location. One of the things that I've discovered since I moved to Newbury is that it is
not Newbury Court. It is not urban. It is spread out, wildly spread out. And to accommodate both Newbury and Biffield is a challenge. Um, uh, another member of our of our board,
Cheryl and I did a huge canvasing of businesses this past summer. It was, uh, a challenge indeed. I mean, who would think that there are businesses in Newbury, right? And we went after the businesses because we feel like they
should engage and participate in making contribution to the COA. Well, they're there and they're hidden in many ways, but they're very very supportive of the COA. So, I encourage I I think this
report was spectacular, but I do think the location may have to be looked at again just because of the configuration of Newbury and Biffield. I come all the way from Ros Lane over here to
participate. So, it's a distance. I don't mind doing it. I might mind when I'm 85. >> I really might mind it. Um, that's one thing. I think the other
issue is that while Newbury Port COA has a quite a spectacular center, it is busy all the time. Every minute in every
space is taken all the time. So partnering with new report COA can be a challenge. I think that there could be good discussion about how they managed to get their building, what was
involved, what kinds of programming, what kind of content is offered. But I think in terms of partnering, it could really be a challenge. And the reason people of course go to Newbury Port is because because of the location.
uh you know might be easier to get to Newbury Port COA rather than coming here and the program offerings are quite different. So looking at an urban area and really looking at what what I consider to be a um rural area
is a very different kind of vision and I think that's what we really need to look at. Thank you. It was a wonderful report by the way >> Chris thank you for that and um if you look into regionalization of the council on aging are you willing to participate
in that study regalization studies that you know so much about new report >> sure >> thanks thank you Jerry >> oh >> what got me was the um Jerry de Mayo
local right here. Uh I'm a member of the Newbury Court COA. I'm a member of this COA and um the regionalization just here. It is totally free to anyone from Newbury. They are wonderful. Absolutely
wonderful. They offer tremendous things. It's a great building. But one of the things that Chris brought up is you have to get there a half an hour earlier or you won't even get a space. The classes are enormous and I we were there uh for exercising and you're
bumping into people. You don't have equipment and the other thing is parking. It fills up so fast. So I that's all I thought really generalization is it's never going to work. No. >> So you just you just signed yourself up
to help. >> I ALREADY HELPED THAT MAN. MR. Justice >> I'm on the board of the council agent. >> Thanks Jack. I there are people that raised their hand on on Zoom. So we'd like to obviously get input from them.
>> Thank you. Uh Jack Vicki, 37 L Road. Thank you for all your time and efforts uh put into this thus far. Um, I haven't heard any engagement numbers uh regarding the COA and in in a in
response uh to a letter Cindy was kind enough to send me uh some engagement numbers um concerning uh participation there. the unduplicated active people per month last year
January through December unduplicated means if one person goes to five events the attendance is five but it's one person so it's it's tracked using the
methodology the COA does use and it's called unduplicated active people per month January 2599 9. February 121, March 137, April 143, May 143, June 156,
July 134, August 158, September 173, October 149, November 145, and last December 105. Those engagement numbers for the discussion we're having don't justify
14,000 square ft of a build. the existing to pick up on Fred's uh mention our old town hall green hall police station according to our town broadly records has 5,666
existing square feet that granted can use an update but I believe that the citizens would be gained for that. I think we all have wish lists and dreams. I saw a quote in the annual report for the COA is build it and indeed they'll
come. But what's demonstrated here is that wonderful programming over 52 programs are offered in addition to the unalked about social and and resource guidance they provide by phone. It's a wonderful organization that's by phone.
I say to you all that 14,000 square ft and the multitude of millions that takes to build such a thing on the virgin land that was purchased for open space or recreation in 2001 along Kent way needs to be considered. I don't think that
it's wise for us in lie of as one of the other cit citizens mentions Morgan AB according to the annual report in 2030 according to the capital planning is going to be $20 million for us. Triton is going to be $40 million for us and they've already chosen their project
manager for it. These things are real and in front of us. A $14 million COA with a 100 unduplicated users are an average that I thought calculated 138 persons per month over the course of
January to December of last year by the COA's own numbers needs to be considered. And I think that visiting and and in conjunction with perhaps rebuilding the fire station that needs to be the Yankee consideration of use it
because it's a capital asset that's bought and paid for. The idea that the select board at the last meeting put in to demolish 25. >> Say Jack Jack, let me just interrupt for a minute. Okay. >> You're you're wandering off the agenda item. Jack, you're wandering off the
agenda item. We're not here to discuss the fire station. We're not here to discuss the demolition um bylaw request. Okay. I appreciate your comments about what the COA is all about and their attendance. Okay. And I'd like you to
focus clearly and concisely about what your issues are with the Council on Aging. I'd also like to know what it would take to get someone like yourself to participate to boost those numbers of participation in the Council ON AGING HIGHER.
NOW, THAT MAY BE A DIFFERENT AGENDA ITEM FOR another topic, but I'd like you to think about that. I would welcome your input in terms of what you think the Council on Aging should do differently to boost attendance. >> How about show? I think that's a wonderful question. I
think Cindy and the crew have done yman's work for the last four years trying to get it from our community. I think they've peaked. I don't think we can get higher because the nature of a million dollar buy into an average price
of house in this town makes it so that COA uses a house in Florida for most people buying in here or the house up north. I don't think we're going to get bigger under any circumstance. And that needs to be considered too, Bill. >> Well, I think I think you I think you'll agree, Jack, that the demographics of
our town say that the population is getting older. Okay. And there may be more people who need the services of the Council on Aging. Um, I mean, look at the charts. They're contained on the on the town website. Um, the town is not getting younger, it's getting older. And
and uh I mean, sincerely, I appreciate I appreciate your comments and um um you know, it's Go ahead. Continue if you if you need to. >> No, no. I I appreciate the back and forth. It's nice to discuss an open and transparent way. I believe that, you
know, your own figures and Cindy's wonderful work is already dictating to us the direction of the future. Yes, we're all getting old. I'm 63 now. Myself and a lot of us are aging in places we can, but the turnover in the town on Plum Island and the larger and
more expensive developments that are happening on our old town are dictating that the wealthier people don't rely on the services that COA has. And in fact, we're probably at the peak of what older people will be here, the number of them, and we'll be regressing again. The
engagement numbers pro are showing this year over year. This isn't Jack, this isn't Bill. These are numbers demonstrated by the COA, and I just think it needs to be considered under every circumstance. We have an existing asset, 5,666
square ft that can be used. And I think we're all Yankees at heart. You know, some people have champagne taste, but we have Coca-Cola wallets. We have facing the next 5 years serious overrides. And I don't believe the first priority should be a standalone build 14,000
square foot building. I think that we have a lot of great assets around town and I understand Sydney has to go around town sometimes with some of her equipment, but all of us do that as coaches, as as friends, as teachers, as helpers. It's what we do. We don't all have everything under one roof. We work
it. And seniors getting around town and using our other existing facilities is a wonderful thing. You have to get in the car anyway, whether they end up at field or on the upper green at a yoga, you know, session or on Central Street for a yoga session. It's a beautiful thing to
do. I think we all and I appreciate that. If I >> Damon would like to respond. >> Jack, we have already been turning people away. So to say that we don't need more space, I think is inaccurate.
The programs may or may not be able to continue to grow. And that is a good question. But I think your uh declaration that we have already seen the most the COA can do is a disservice to the people who work in this building.
David, I I I take umbrage at that because you were in 3,666 ft. I'm suggesting you move to 5,666 ft, which is a 40% buildup. And if if we were so inclined and we needed to put a little addition onto it, we could use
some of the money that we put away as part of the town hall money so we can build you more. >> I hear you. I I hear you, Jack. I think I'm going to ask you to do the same thing I asked Fred Thrillow to do. When Damon starts reviewing the sites they looked at and and looks at the pros and
cons and looks at the pros and cons of those sites. Why don't you chime in then about 25 high road when it's applicable? Okay. >> And you guys all know what it's about. I'm not going to revisit it. This is lather, rinse, repeat time and time
again. And we shouldn't pay $250,000 to have somebody revisit it. >> I don't want to speak. >> Okay, Jack. We need we need to have some other people on Zoom speak now please. >> Okay, I have Alyssa Diamond.
>> We have another >> Alisa Diamond. >> Hi there. Alyssa Diamond, 56 Boston Road. Um I'm following up on some of the people before me who've spoken just about location um and access to um services. Um, I'm just agreeing with
those people before me and saying that as someone who lives in Oldtown, I access the Newbury Port Library significantly more frequently due to the location and hours and considering other people in Oldtown and Plum Island. Um, again, thinking that it is quite the distance um, if we're thinking about a
location for potential COA by the library. Uh with that said, um I did want to say that there's been a significant emphasis on locating the new COA near other town services such as the library. Given that the library hours and the potential COA hours overlap by
about 63% as they stay currently on um each of the websites, can we share what the percentage of council on aging programming is expected to occur during those overlapping hours and how is that informed how has that informed the decision to prioritize proximity to
other town services? the proximity to other town services was prioritized based on uh overlap not in overlap in ours. So if we
can use a space that another building has then we don't have to build that space ourselves. Uh we have good communication both with town hall and with the library. The hope is that wherever this building
is built in the end, it will continue to have some of that overlapping functionality. Uh we did not look at the hours of operation uh because those things are subject to
change. We know that when budgets get cut, hours get cut, the libraries open less. When we're doing more, when there's more money, the libraries open more. So that was not a consideration for us.
>> I wonder if that could be a consideration moving forward. Again, as you just stated about as budgets are being looked at and possibly getting cut, what about, you know, any services potentially getting cut or staffing um at the Council on Aging as well, something to consider again as we
continue to look at this moving forward. Um, I also wanted to ask as well is that there's been a lot of discussion about outdoor safety and use of space. So, I'm wondering if uh what is the plan if the uh potential for this new council on
aging near the library um was to go through and has there ever been uh talk about potentially looking at expanding the rail trail from Parker Street to High Road if High Road could potentially be a consideration? I know it was stated like that. We'll continue to discuss that later on. But again, I'm wondering
if you know what is the current uh plan because I have not seen um that myself and if there's been discussion about potentially um expanding the rail trail to have further accessibility. >> Really has nothing to do >> nothing to do. >> Yes, the the rail trail
>> is a different discussion matter. I would love to see the rail trail connected or the Boston to >> Boston >> borders to Boston completed, but that's not this Sadly, not this discussion. >> I was just thinking about it as again as
a potential option if high road were to be considered as a potential space for the council on aging if that could be a potentially cheaper, more feasible option. That's that's how I was trying to connect the two. >> Got it. Thank you. I I would love to see it done whether no matter where this
building ends up or doesn't get built. Will these matters that the people are bringing up fall into the feasibility study that um we're looking at? >> Yeah, that's why we have the notes. >> Yeah, >> Alisa, thank you. >> So, yes. So, could there be just some
follow-up questioning from my answer on um what is the current proposed outdoor um space looking at at the at the proposed site near the library or we're talking about safety being such a concern. Can we consider that and talk about that when Damon talks about the library
specifically how they evaluated the pros and cons of the library site? Can we defer your question until then? >> Sure. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> And we have uh guest Chris how
>> Chris. >> Hello. Um this is Chris How Annapolis. I'm also on the uh currently uh board COA and as well as one of the uh teachers of some of the programming at the COA. So with regards to I think uh
comments that were coming up earlier with respects to engagement numbers etc. I think often the spacing allocation also has to do with the um event programming. Uh space needed for a basketball court is certainly different
than uh an NFL game. So ma requires different space than pingpong um etc. So I think we also are in a situation where >> some of the
space such as mantra field is not easily accessible particularly in bad weather uh dirt parking lot. Uh again a lot of the folks who are have some disability or difficulty uh
walking on ice things like that. So standalone building or attached would definitely be beneficial. And I think maybe the concept of build if they would come or renovate doesn't matter which, but I think that the engagement numbers
would improve if the accessibility to the appropriate space was there. So, thank you the committee for doing all that wonderful work and um I'm fiscal conservative. Obviously, I don't want to see my taxes raised, but I definitely
think that again with the 60 plus, even 50 plus community, it's not just about the activities that have gone to a lot of programming, including the one at the fire station on cyber security, etc. So there's a there's a lot of uh benefit to
having um not only a senior center but I've heard Newberry Port come up quite frequently and I too had been a resident of Newberry Port and just a reminder they have a big building because the way
they passed it is it was a dualpurpose center seniors and community center so it's not just restricted to the over 55 community and maybe that's something that we should consider. >> Thank you,
>> Chris. Thanks very much. >> All right, Chris Rock. Um, I just wanted to get back to what I think uh, his name is Jack uh, spoke about in terms of numbers. And I want to point out that be before the new port
COA building, the current building ever existed, it had one large room at the Salvation Army for a hundred years. That was it. So the numbers had consequently had to be low. They didn't have a
facility. They had less space than this in which to operate. So they went ahead and they set up a new building. And now that building is filled all the time with activities. So in terms of visibility and the utilization of space,
it will happen when you have it available. There's no question about it. When when we think of what the uh COA uh the Newbury COA was like before it ever came here, it too was in a very very
small space. It too had very very small participation and attendance. It moved here and that skyrocketed and now this space is overwhelmed with its utilization. So when there's visibility and when there is enough space to
accommodate the seniors of a community, it will happen. It really will happen. >> Anyone else? Jim. Jim Moran. Jim Marray of 104 Elm Street. Um I see several things that I think should be done in parallel. the location which
you're working on now, the size to be taken closer and also the cost and to be done in parallel allows everybody instead of having bits and pieces of questions on multiple issues talk about all of them all the time.
Uh space this building we're in and many other buildings in town sit empty 80% of the time. So when you stop and think of this, this is based on total hours a year. This facility here, maybe you'd want to
entertain keeping open six days a week, Friday instead. This would be a 50% increase in the usage. Now there'd be some cost associated with it, but for the next year, that's a suggestion I might make.
Uh question. Do you have a range of estimated costs for the new building? >> We have guesstimates guesstimations. We don't have a a range because we can't do the engineering required. We we don't even know if the
slight select people will accept our recommendation or if they have other things going on. So we have we assume it would be four to $5 million but we do not know. >> Okay. It's uh you guess it may be 5
million. >> I think that's why Bob Cummings explained that that the next I'm Bob sorry Bob Connor. Um Bob Cummings worked for me at GE for 25 years. Bob, sorry about that. Um I think that's what why
he explained next step would be to engage someone to really look at the nuts and bolts of what the building would require sites and all that stuff to come up with a more scientific approach to what the cost might be. I think this was a best best effort
>> approximation of what it might cost. down to 6 >> if if you apply $800 a square foot and Bob could tell us that that's close or way out of the ballpark. You're talking 10 million for 12,000 square foot. >> Um
>> yeah, I think when we were building the police department it was somewhere in the vicinity of 675 to 700 pushing 800 and that's six years ago with inflation. So but what I'm saying is
you don't have to be just because you talk about numbers you're not lost into them until the convoluted >> correct >> but it is very healthy to talk about numbers all the time size dollars per square foot and uh the location I can't
agree more with what was being said location is critical this works out excellent because of the traffic tool what are you going to do in the future I don't No, but it's a it's a question. It's central to Newbury as a whole, Plum
Island and Old Town and Bfield is a difficult choice to make. >> So that's the comments I have and I'll be glad to participate in the future. Bill, >> one question for you. >> Sure. >> I saw you come in when your coffee pot
was broken because you needed to get have coffee in the morning. What I asked the same question to Jack Ficky. What would it take to get Jim Moran to come here on game night, but to participate in other council on aging activities?
>> That question is for me. I love to drop in here for the social aspects of having a cup of coffee and talk to whoever might be here. Um, >> you could boost the numbers that Jack Vicki is concerned about. >> I uh >> if you >> and that's that's a difficult thing.
>> I am very active in doing many things. >> You don't really need to answer that. I'm just playing. Okay. Remember I gave you a >> lifeaver question. >> I gave you a lifesaver. >> You do participate in pickle ball. >> Yeah, that's right.
>> Pickle ball. >> That's right. >> Thank you. >> Yes, Joanne. >> He's the only one. Hi, I'm Joan Tico and 74 Calwell Farm and I'm going to say the dirty word that
none of you want to hear. It's called taxes. >> Okay. And I can say I come from Boston. The taxes there were outrageous. And we did it in stages. We went to PED. Taxes weren't bad. Then we went to Hamilton. They were outrageous. And now we're in
Biffield. Thank God for Biffield. >> Newbury. >> Newbury. >> Newbury. Biffield. We have a beautiful home and I asked my husband who happens to be a real estate attorney. We both volunteer here. He volunteered at Health and Human Resources and I volunteered
for the Council on Aging and I I come here because I love these people, not because I volunteered. They're wonderful. Everybody here is wonderful. So, I asked my husband this question. What would it cost for our taxes if we lived in Hamilton right now? He's a real
estate attorney. and he said between 18 and 20,000. >> So if you want to pay those taxes, you can live in Hamilton, you can live in Newport, they pay higher taxes, too, but you want to live here in Newberry by field because you know at the end when
you're paying your taxes, it's nothing near what other people are paying. You can talk about where you're going to build this building, how you're going to build this building, all the special parameters involved in this building. They don't pay your taxes.
you have to look at your tax bill and at the end of the year many of my neighbors come in here they're all paid. So I am fiscally responsible and and I love the council on aging. This uh this site the town hall that that building
should be that old tall building town should be condemned. It's it's a it's the board of health should go in there and condemn that building. You want to build a building there? Great. Build it. No, it won't cost as much as anything in Boston or Hamilton. I can assure you.
>> Thank you. >> Thanks, man. >> Yeah. Anyone else? >> I just like Go ahead. I have to get up, I guess. Sorry about that. city planner.
Uh I have some knowledge about populations and things and you mentioned how we're getting we're an old population and we're getting older in my neighborhood. The old people have all sold out and it's all bought by younger people. This is in the last two
years. >> When when you get to see the next census, the next US census, you'll find that this town the age is not getting older. is now getting younger, which I knew was going to happen way back when I was on the planning board ages ago. They kept complaining about the town is
getting old. It's going to be an old It's an old town. People die, people move, and younger people move in. And it has happened in our neighborhood tremendously, right? >> Yes. >> You know, and and up and down. You look at Newman Road, you look at Cottage
Road, you look at my side of the river, it's it's much younger. And so the not your your numbers your age numbers are going to be a little off. I'm not saying >> I'm against any of this. No, >> but I just think your numbers are going to be odd. You just have to realize
>> that's all. Thank you. >> All right. Uh can we move on? Can we look at Damon the different sites and look at what we thought were the pluses and minuses and then >> people can add to their concerns or
pluses and minuses. Um, so I guess the the most logical way will be to go through each location one at a time. Um, number one on the list is the Newbury
Council on Aging at Kentway and the library. Um, so this location was the one that we identified as being the best of our options given what we know at this
point. As I said in the conclusion of the report, uh should the selectman move uh to build a new town hall or things with a fire station change, this could become
uh an antiquated report. Uh but where things stand right now, this site was chosen or deemed to be the the best of our options. Uh, it has plenty of rooms. It has sufficient parking. It has outdoor
space that the town has wanted to develop for years. Um, it has safe street access. It has utilities. Since it would be connected to the library, most people already know where it is.
The ability to do a septic system is reasonably assured. being near the library, there are overlap and functions and we own the property. So, those were the pieces that we looked at and this
location scored the highest. Uh, and there were no massive uh scares or concerned with a building that was either attached or adjacent to the library. There are complications.
It's not ideal but we don't live in an ideal world and uh you know as many people brought up it is not central. So if we move to the next phase where we ask uh a professional to vet the work
that we do we may ask them to include centralized location as a weight and that may change what is recommended to the town. Um, so that's sort of the brief overview of the thinking that went into that
site. Uh, I don't know if people have comments, questions. >> I think Dave Powell had something to add. Certainly did. Maybe Fred did as well. >> Come on, Dave. Uh, but I can't wait. Um, okay. I've been listening to
comments from people and I guess a lot of them are informed by passion and the view of the community in which we live.
Um, I feel that we need to try to be as objective as we can about the issues that face us.
And I'm sorry to say this, but I think it's true looking at Uber's history over a long time, actually over two centuries, there have come times when somehow we've
failed as a community to deal with some issues and life has gone on and we have lost land for example to Newbury Port to West Newbury and we've been now reduced to
being a somewhat weird truncated community with three kinds of areas. Byfield, Old Town which is this long kind of corridor and Plum Island which is something totally different from the
other two places. And so when we come to looking at citing anything, that's one of the issues. The issues is that wherever you put whatever you're talking about, it won't be in the other two places.
Right? There is no place in this town which somehow won't be cut off. Okay? So I think we need to recognize that. But there's a difficulty we need to deal with. And interestingly,
it's an issue which came up with guess what? >> The big elephant in the room, the town hall. What we're talking about today, in my estimation,
as somebody who's been involved in planning for a long time, is intimately tied into another decision, which is what we do about a town hall, whether we continue to rent premises, whether we
build something. And we know what has happened recently and that is twice a proposal has been brought to the community. It's passed the town meeting only to get killed at the polls.
Killed dead I might tell to or mind you. Okay. So why do I mention all this? Because it seems to me that this is not really a problem of just where could we
might we should we put a council on aging facility. It is tied inexraably with the issue of the town hall and the issue of how you service a long
stretched out community. Now David just ran down the the number one choice which is right next door here. Okay. The number one choice is a a beautiful
example of what I'm talking about about the community letting something get away from it. I don't know how many of you know, but the town bought that a little over 20 years ago for over $200,000.
Okay? And if if I what I'm going to say now is contradicted by anything you know, please correct me later. And that is it was partly bought in order to avoid a lawsuit. And the lawsuit was connected with the
the lighting and a number of other things at the little re. Okay, I won't visit that history, but um it's unfortunate. It's a wasting asset. It has been it's been sitting there for 20 years. In the
process, it's become totally overgrown, inaccessible. as part of a survey I was doing in relation to the open space. I tried to get into it and nearly killed myself in the process on vines and killer weeds
and who knows what. Okay. Why was that allowed to happen? Well, frankly, because we acquired it in in something of a panic and didn't really look at what we were inquir acquiring or what we might do with it. Okay. So,
however, as Dame's group, the the group that produced this excellent piece of work came to the conclusion that it's the best of not a very great pick. And I would suggest that we don't
waste very much time today talking about the others because they all fail on various levels. Okay? particularly parking also septic. Okay. A whole bunch of things you can
rule out almost all of them except mantels interestingly. >> Okay. But that's another maybe a topic for another part of this. Okay. So what about number one choice? Well, number
one choice provides you with an opportunity to have okay connection to an already established library. And I want to tell the whoever came up with the idea of rehabbing the library,
forget it. They've just spent a great deal of money roofing the library with a metal roof. Okay? Which will probably outlast every single person in this room. Okay. And so that's not very practical.
Also, it happens to be its own kind of architectural disaster of a certain kind. It's it's a wonderful building, but it's not a very good library in some ways. Okay. However, it is there. It
works. Okay. It can be connected to a building which might have multiple functions beyond Council on Aging. Okay. Um, and I think physically it should be connected. There should be in fact a way
of going without going outside on a day when the temperature is 10° from a council on aging into the library or vice versa. Also, the mixing of age groups. Okay, we have one of the best childhood libraries
in the region recognized by the consortium, the library consortion. Okay. Also, yes, there's going to be a problem and that is the problem that the little league is there with an
established field. Okay. Frankly, and I say this knowing how there will be house of rage from some people. It needs to be moved. It needs to be moved to the back of the lot. Part of the problem is
the only decent access to that lot is from, pardon me, is from the library and Lud Street because don't be deluded by what you see out here. Okay? As you leave
today, if you're driving up Kent Way or walking up Kent Way, the uh what you're looking at essentially is a really problematic wetland crossing >> which Mr. Mantis boys tried to do back
20 years ago and you can still see the wheel tracks they left behind. Okay. However, I think that can be developed. It would be a major effort. It would have to be planned in relation to a
staging process and all the rest of it. But I think one of the things that needs to happen very early on is we need to be able to evaluate what we have as a piece of property there. So it needs to be accessible for every sake. Okay? And
that's not going to take that much to do. It shouldn't have to be an 80-year-old plus man in there with his loppers trying to find his way back to what lies there which is five plus acres of
land. Okay. Um with some interesting neighbors um by the way. Okay. So what I would recommend to both the planning people around the
COA and to to us as a community is that we look honestly and perhaps um how shall I say with due humility at the fact that we have a
bigger problem than the Council on Aging. Council on Aging perhaps epitomizes some of the decisions which we need to make as a community. And I know there
are people who feel that the greatest value of Newbury is its low taxes and a number of other things. But if the greatest value of Newbury is also eroding
facilities, is also being at the mercy of events which are often beyond our control. Who knows? Because among other things, you're now sitting on the ground
of a perfect lesson in planning, except bad planning. Again, I don't know whether you know the history of the building you're sitting in, but it was designed to be Massachusetts
northeast rival to the Kery stores. Okay, this was going to be a health mall. All right. And what happened was that a neighbor who happened to be an
acquaintance of mine by weird coincidence sued and stopped this process for over a decade. The anchor tenant left. The whole thing fell apart financially
and all of a sudden it was broken down into bits and pieces. And now you know what it is. Okay, you it's now urban I mean sorry um community resources, the town hall, the council on
aging and storage for all of those things that we can't get rid of. >> Okay, enough. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Okay, thank you very much. Fred, did you want to speak again about the library? Anybody? Jim,
>> I saw uh Jim Carr, 33 South Street, uh bike field. I I guess something that everyone's kind of concerned about regards of how we decide to choose this is how is it going to be paid for? And I'm
just curious, we do have some uh town properties or such. Are there any other methods to pay for this in the long run besides taxes? Are there any other uh revenue sources? >> Pass to private donations besides that
>> besides recycle. >> Well, it is you say beside that, but that is one of the the ways that some of the nicer facilities we visited were funded. they were matched
>> uh where the town would raise money and private individuals donated and had the building's name or a room named or things like that. So there is the possibility that philanthropy comes into it. Um we can't plan for the
philanthropy. We can hope for it. You know, part of the reason that we did such a massive outreach initially is I was hoping someone would say, "Oh, I have this building. My family has moved to North Carolina. Do you guys want a building?" You know,
that would have been great. >> Yes. Uh it didn't happen. Uh so the funding revenues that we can access are writing for grants but that's
not always successful charitable giving uh we can approach GDA again and see if they can step up with their payment in lie of taxes. Um but as a community
We don't have a lot of funding options outside of taxes. >> We get some money from the state, some from the feds. >> The rest we have to ask someone for. >> Okay. And I mean we ask because I hadn't
heard anything addressed. I hadn't heard any other income streams and I know that's on the back of a lot of folks minds. >> Great question. >> And when I look at this and you say we have all these city Newbury owned parcels.
Can any of those, which aren't being used obviously, which is why we're looking at using them, can any of those be sold off to generate income to help pay for it? >> Uh, I'm no longer on the select board, so I can't speak to that very well, but
we have periodically done that throughout time. Sometimes we've done it wisely. Sometimes we have made mistakes and things that we sold and and then wished we had back later. >> Sure. >> Right. >> Uh so I know it's an option. I don't
know what I feel like the last auction was four years ago, three years ago. >> Um and so I don't know what properties would be viable for sale at this point.
>> Okay. Um, but uh >> we could look at it. Don't worry. We could look at it. >> People beside me have the ability to figure that out. >> I took a note. I took a note, Jim. Thank you. >> Yeah. I'll just say that we do have some people in this in this town with very
deep pockets. We have quite a few. >> Redo center. >> Ah, NO. He's not right now. Fred's not able to reach into his right pocket. >> We're not even in the ball game. >> There's a question about money. Um, I
just want to give a little I know not everybody here has understands municipal finance and how municipal finance works. Um, but and Tracy's here. She can correct me if I misspeak. Um but right now when we look at our operating budget
for the town of Newbury, the town the town has two source two two sources of taxing it face. One is through our proposition 2 and a half every year we get we can only go raise the pop the uh
tax base by an amount no more than two two and a half%. And we as a town have not gone up as high as two and a half%. We try to stay lower than that. We try to um but the way our and we're in the middle of the budget season now. We're
just starting. The departments pull together what they need to run their departments. They bring it to the town administrator. The town administrator puts an operating budget together for the town. Comes before the board. The board votes, meets with the finance committee. We bring it before town
meeting. And that's how we have an operating budget. But when you look at what you can tax, you can you tax your regular tax base for the police, the council on aging, the fire, all your operating. And then you also have a capital building for the
police station is a perfect example of that. When we built the police station, we did a Proposition 2 and a half um debt exclusion override. So we we we what we asked the public to vote on was we want to build this building. Will you
please contribute this amount in addition to what you already pay for your operating taxes this little bit more money that will go down over 20 or 30 years. However, we we go out to bonds the project and then we have it once it's paid off like the
library was paid off I think two or three years ago. that slowly comes off your taxes. That's how a debt exclusion works. This current building where we're sitting in here and the town hall offices upstairs
do not have that option. They come out of our operating budget. And as you know, leases go up, they never go down. So over time, this will never
be 100% paid for and owned by the town of Newbury. We will always rent. And there's an argument to say that that's a good thing to do. You should be renting your property. I don't believe anybody in this town rents their homes. And
there's a reason. So there's >> there's be keep that in mind if we decide to remain as renters in this space and if we and I say we the collective we as not
the select board but the town of Newbury at town meeting we decide to stay at the public offices here and remain renters there's going to be a long-term cost for that and Over time, it's going to cost
the town of Newbury a significant amount more money than it would if we had a debt exclusion, bit the bullet, built something, and paid it off over time. >> Mhm. >> So, I just want to get that out there. >> Thanks,
>> Bob. Bob Cummings says >> I I call the council on aging the center of excellence from the board of directors because that's foundation that they would do. >> You know what I I think that we've had a
great discussion here today, but we're starting to kind of circle around. >> Dubbury has three critical issues. critical facilities and facilities which we're talking about education and infrastructure. Everything that this town operates on
falls into one of those buckets. What happens is we get paralyzed worrying about one and we overlook the other uh and we miss opportunities. 12 years ago there was a proposal to do a critical facility down in Morgan. It
was police, fire, town hall. it was going to be $12 million. That would be half paid off right now. And and now what's happening is that we peace meal going forward. We keep kind of kicking the can down the road. It only gets more expensive.
>> I think the next critical step is put this on the agenda article. Let's get let's see if there's an appetite to spend $250,000 to delve in the remaining issues of what everyone's been asking today. Because if
we're not willing to spend the $250,000 to get the the next step of answers where you can quantify what's the potential impact on your taxes. I mean, that's what everybody wants to know. You know, the schools, Triton,
uh, what do you they're coming, but they've been coming for seven, eight years. something could already be half paid for and we could be utilizing yesterday costs at 50% payoff. So that's the only thing I want to offer. But I
think the issue is you should leave here today. Is are you willing to at town meeting to vote to support funding $250,000 to get us to the next level where that you can actually quantify >> what the true costs are going to be,
pros and cons on locations and and deliver this uh bring it to the next level. >> Thank you. >> Can I ask one quick question? >> Come on up. I don't think I have that.
>> 161 street live here by my question is it's well not whether we need want who what's this what does $250,000 get us? Everybody knows the square footage of what it takes to build a house. Everyone's built a house. Everyone knows someone who's built a
house. We hear numbers of $800,000 a square foot for a police station. Are we building a police station type building or are we building a house which cost a million half dollars? What is the 250 going to be? And what is it
going to bring us that we're That's a lot of money to tell me that a house is going to cost $800,000. David, >> what is who's getting the 250? If we sent that out to bid and ask three people to give us a viable number, are we just going to say, "Here, here's
$250,000. Tell me it's going to cost $800 a square foot." >> Uh, I think Leslie wants to say something first. >> Just a simple difference on um the information. >> It just seems like a lot of money. >> Commercial and residential square footage costs.
>> Well, I'm about that. Yeah, I'm in the industry, so I understand that. I understand that, >> right? So, >> and there's classes of buildings >> there are, you know, there's, but I don't think we're at that point yet. I think what that $250,000
will accomplish are the larger questions that everybody has right now. And it'll it'll make the it it's an educational process for the public to be able to understand how many dollars it will cost them if they want to move. Someone has
given us a number to do this at 250,000. >> 250,000. The experts come in and do their job. We're not capable of doing. >> No, I get it. >> But >> Dam, do you want to answer that? >> Um, I can or Bob could. He's more in this field. But this is essentially
taking what we've done as non-professionals. You know, I I've built houses years ago, but I've been out of the train for ages. um to really look at the to go through the work that we've done the program needs the space
needs the space allocation the spaces in Newbury basically to say uh the nonprofessional committee work that was done as volunteers and bring it to the next level so that it can be truly
vetted out you know there are 20 people in this room all who may have a different idea of exactly how big the building should be. You know what the building cost should be. We're the $250,000 is to get someone whose job it
is to be able to say this is the right range of space needs. This is the right square footage needs. This is the right cost per square foot. So we can really move forward with a real number. >> I guess I'm asking who gave you that
>> feasibility study. >> Yeah. Who is this? Somebody >> be an article at the annual town meeting. We'd be voted at the annual town meeting. >> So you don't even have the number that may not be appropriate. I think the thought right
now is >> we spent $180,000 to get the number for the police station and get through schematic. >> That's you got to get schematics, >> right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> I think the key is you give and I should
I come up? Sure. >> Yeah. >> It it's it's one of these things that >> that you have a gross square footage of approximately 14,000 square ft. >> Now, how do we utilize shared facilities?
The meeting room in the library, we get to do a debuff on that cuz that could be added into it could be a shared facility. The bathroom facilities, will they be sufficient to handle the added influx of people? These are all things that have become helpful. Uh in a shared
facility, we have a dual use and you need an elevator, then it's being split by two functions, critical facilities of the town. But normally to get a report like this, you have already spent 150 or
200 grand. Uh it's it's remarkable that uh Newbury and Biffield Homegrown can actually put out a report of this level in detail and and undertake all the programming needs and in anticipating what future growth you're going to need.
But I I just wanted to to share that is you guys done a good job. >> So the $250,000 will hopefully get us two schematic design. They'll have a project. >> You'll do there'll be an RFP. Tracy, I would think you would do an RFP for
proposals on schematic designs looking at the documents that we have. And then bid and then you get to luck. They're either within budget the 250 uh or they're not. And but it's the next
logical step on getting to where you really want to hear. What's the impact in the taxes? Is this location the right location? Is this type of facility the right facility? >> And if it's not supported at town meeting, then it won't be supported at the at the ballot. And that'll tell us a
lot, too. >> I mean, I think that's the water. >> If we're not willing to spend 250 grand to get to the next step, then we're not willing to spend any money on building it. So, >> that's right. >> Thank you, Bob Connors.
I'll ask you for a donation. >> Bridget Paceri, 160 Elm Street. Uh also a trustee of the library. uh simple request going forward. If we're talking about impacting the library, the trustees would definitely like to be
involved in that discussion uh to evaluate the impact that that has on the library if the plan is to connect to it or even do work around it. How does that impact us? I was surprised to see the the ninth and tth uh uh options on the
list. And again, I agree with the metal roof. Let's not touch it. Um also, personally, I think this is great. I love the interaction, the fact that it brings more people in. Uh we've beat the drum for years. We want to see the
library get worn out. Please use it. It's there. It's a community facility. access it. Uh, also it didn't get high rating in the evaluation. I like the land adjacent to the ele school. Um, the
4 acres that are there. Um, has I think people talking about location it is relative central location. Um you may even have the potential of connecting into the uh the sewage system uh since
the school is connected into the new report uh sanitary system. So that is potential too. So >> I think that's too wet. >> Definitely wet to build building at this time. >> That was why I didn't get a high school. >> Okay. That I didn't know even though I
was involved when >> Can I ask a question? Sure. I participated in a strategic plan initiative at the library a few years ago. Do you still have that record? Do you have that document with the previous library director? >> Yeah, they have it. We do it every 5
years. We do plan and actually we're in the process of initiating the you know the new plan. >> So it must have been five years ago I did it. >> Yeah. >> They had um they identified the number one users of the library as the seniors. >> Yeah. So that I think
>> I think that's shifted a little bit. We've got an increase in younger people now. Um and just by way of example on on a a monthly basis, our numbers kind of indicate every time you go in and out
the door, you get counted. Um so I go in and out repeatedly. But it's it's about about 3,000 people a month come and go through the library. And again, physically where we're located at this end of town, we are
servicing people not only from Newbury, but Georgetown, West Newbury. Um, and but we're all part of the Marramac Valley uh consortium, too. So, which makes a lot of the folks your ability to go do new report uh if you weren't part
of MVLC, you wouldn't be able to do that. You just get the books that we have on the shelf, which aren't a whole lot. Uh but I just my only request is going forward that and I love to be involved. I'd love to see more people utilize.
>> Let's see what town town meetings are. >> Absolutely. >> And just so you know, we did speak with the library director. I just didn't think to speak to the trustees as well. So we had meetings with them. >> Yep. >> Uh to make sure it wouldn't, you know, be terrible. >> And they were very excited about the idea.
>> Absolutely. No, the fact and it bring more people into the building. Uh it's a wonderful facility. Uh it is getting utilized. Thank you. Uh and uh you want to say get used more. >> Very good. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thanks, Dick.
>> Yes, Mr. Powell. >> Brief and concise. Okay. >> I'll make and concise. And that is although I agree with Bob Connor in terms of getting the numbers,
the one thing that has to happen in any kind of project like this is a real attempt from the ground up to sell it >> to the community. Yeah.
>> And I would remind everybody that think about your history because if you don't learn from history of the past, you'll do it again. And I stand here as one of the people who spent a lot of time and
energy trying to get a $900,000 override pass. Do you remember that, folks? >> We do. >> Right. We failed. That's how Alicia,
we failed. But boy did we have people engaged. It's possible to do it. And the reason why, and has nothing to do with the failure of numbers or anything like that. The reason why the town hall issue
failed was simply because the selling of it was abysmal. just just I mean it was like sort of well we have to do this you have to grow up we have to do this not a way to do it
I spent most of my life in the communications world both visual and verbal and I want to tell you this is a perfect opportunity to use all of those things we now can tie ourselves together as a community through what's on the
wall there through things that are in your pockets called your phones. Okay? So, if we don't do it and my advice would be talk about where it could happen first,
okay? Don't talk about costs. Tell people you're conscious of the fact that that must be addressed and you will not come up with some kind of, you know, gold-plated livery. but talk about where get people involved
seeing the community seeing how it works and if you can't do that it will lose one more time and I would hate to see that happen. I really would, >> David. Thank you, David. >> I guess to summarize, I I mean, I'd like
to thank everybody who came here today to participate uh here and people online. Um we appreciate your input. Um I think this is a good baby step in the right direction in terms of communicating what this is all about, why the study was done, how it was done,
and and and what was what was documented. Uh you've given us some ideas. regionalization is one of them and so on and so forth. So captured those ideas and and um um I encourage you we meet the select board meets every
second Tuesday and fourth Tuesday of every month if you want to see our faces more often. Please come and visit us at the select board meetings. Usually there is no audience there. So we welcome your input. We welcome your criticism.
Uh and um I thank you again for being here today. >> I just feel you can reach out to us not just at the meeting but you can reach out because we will talk to you. >> Exactly. I mean we we'd love to get
emails about what you're concerned about. We love to get phone messages about what you're concerned about. If you're timid about coming to the podium to address it at a select board meeting, I can understand that. There are other ways of communicating what's on your
mind. So take advantage of them. So I think I need a motion to >> motion to adjourn. >> Second. >> All in favor of slwood. >> I would like a motion to adjourn.
>> All those in favor? >> Thank you all for coming. >> Thanks everybody. See?