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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=D0eyabfKRBo

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Okay, it is Thursday, June 4th, 2026, Park and Rec Advisory Commission. I call to order the meeting at 5:00 PM. Uh, first approval of agenda. Need a motion for approval of agenda. >> So moved. >> Second.

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>> Second. All right. All in favor and the approval of April 2nd, 2026 M uh minutes. >> Steve, it's you and I. We're going back and forth here. So, you can move this one. >> I'll move it. >> Second. >> All right. All in favor? All right. Open

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forum. Nobody here. So, we will start with your department report. >> Awesome. Thank you. Um just a couple of things to update you guys on. Um, as we switch from spring to summer here, uh, the community center interior updates

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are complete. Um, the only thing left remaining is some of the siding repairs. So, that project, um, went pretty much as planned and so we're just trying to get that final sighting taken care of. Um, we did replace the irrigation pump at the baseball field back in April, so

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that is up and running now. Um the bathroom, the men's bathroom at City Park was vandalized again and we needed to um buy a new partition door. So that has kind of been a reoccurring thing over the past couple of years. Um and so

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we did get that replaced. Um >> Amber, has there been any thought about putting a camera that maybe on the not on the inside of the bathroom, I understand, but on the outside? Um, we've talked a little bit about it, but not nothing serious.

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>> Um, yeah, it'd probably be a larger citywide discussion. Um, or just like a Ring doorbell kind of thing. >> Um, so yeah, it's been an ongoing talk amongst the city for a few years. Uh,

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but nothing's really taken off. Uh recreationwise, uh T-ball is in full swing and then thuro T-ball, which is for the young little shavers, uh that actually starts tonight. Uh basketball camp and safety

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town registration is open for summer programming. This year we are not offering tennis due to the school um resurfacing and not replacing the tennis court over there. So park projectwise

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uh the big thing happening is the gull trail and the bathroom addition. So we did clearing and grabbing and have uh the bathroom part going. Um we are waiting on the final approval of the permits to get the foundation put in

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before we can receive the toilet. Um so that's maybe a little bit further behind schedule than we want it to be. Uh but it looks like we should still get maybe the parts put in place um kind of by the final deadline that needs to be. So that

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one is um closely monitored. Uh and then the trail section out on 77. They've been working this week on the final punch list items. So that should wrap up um on time as expected.

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Uh after that, we'll get all the invoicing and um final final paperworks and get that submitted for reimbursement. So that should all be wrapped up by the end of August with site visits and whatnot.

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Um also I have engaged a couple um companies requesting proposals for some design work for park entrance signs. So one of the last things out at Between the Lakes Park is [snorts] an entrance sign. we don't have one. Um,

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and so looking at getting a proposal to kind of start updating and having some continuity with all of our signs. Likely we would update Nisa Lake Park because that's a pretty extravagant sign, but like city park, um, community center,

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things like that. Um, getting those all starting to have a consistent cohesive look. Um, so I'll be once I receive those proposals, I'll bring them forward to you guys and we can kind of start working through some of that and what those look like. Um,

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and then also other projects happening within the city. I emailed you guys a little bit on the sidewalk and the school, the roundabout. um some of those other conversations that are happening uh mostly under public works but also

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overlaps with the parks master plan, sidewalk locations, pedestrian circulation, wayfinding. Um you see some of the um pictures around the room, streetscape benches, all of that uh stuff. So those are

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happening within the public works department. Um but I'm very much present with a lot of that and uh keeping in mind what we have as our directives in the park master plan for sidewalks and wayfinding um ADA accessibility things

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like that. So that is ongoing as we look at the road bonds and then additionally um there is a biking pedestrian safety plan that's also gathering feedback. I have a flo a sign

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right there. There's a QR code there. People can um scan the QR code, get taken to the site, and they can enter comments for all over Crowing County. So, it's not just NISWA. It is kind of countywide. Um and it's uh grantf funded. Cross Lake

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was the lead, but we are partner agency on that. Um so, ultimately it's trying to make a cohesive pedestrian safety plan. So, Is that I was asked if uh the beautifification committee for public

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works. Uh yeah. So there's a um a small group that's talking about streetscape. Um I talk with Tom often about what exists and what how we might move things forward, what those looks might be. Um,

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but there is a small group that it's going to be kind of discussing some of those items um as it comes through Nisa Avenue into City Hall Street down Church Street. Um,

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things like lighting and to flowers, no flowers, all all the things, flags, [laughter] what do we want? What do we have room for? Um, so I talked quite a bit with Tom about a lot of those items.

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>> Did what was was there any decision made on the sidewalk over by the school owner? >> Um, yes, we can. So on both sides, if you can see the pictures, there's light red lines. Those

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are the uh images with sidewalks. So we can certainly look at that after and go over it more in depth. Um, but really looking at especially in the kind of central business district area, the

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downtown area and the kind of arteries leading into it creating sidewalks down. As you get closer to downtown, it's looking more like both sides. as you go kind of out Lakers Lane to 18 connecting the trail and the sidewalk on one side

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uh down Church Street probably one side as you get down past the park towards Popppler just point this way that's that way um northbound. So we can take a take a closer look at that um for sure. But as

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you're looking in downtown it's more so both sides of the sidewalk or both sides of the road. I mean for sidewalks trying to get um better sight lines, ped ramps, better accessibility um and an improved circulation as they

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look at the road road bonds through that area. There might be a phase two. Can't do all the roads at once. So, uh, any other questions on some of those items? >> I I just have one. I It's I just The

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Earth fair eighth fairway with that sinkhole. >> Yep. >> Has that been >> Yes, they repaired that last week. >> Okay. >> Yes. And the fence was complete today or yesterday.

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>> Make sure. >> Yes. Yep. Cool. Well, if that's all the questions, we can get into the business of this. Um, old business or standing item. Uh, you have a new park design in your

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packet. Um, so this is our fourth fourth version. Um, and kind of one of the biggest things that one, we don't know if we've

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received the grant yet or not. We won't know till the end of the month. Um, and working with them, I think we need to try and pinpoint where we want to invest our money. So, if you're looking at the price tags, they've gone up and up and

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up and up through all four versions. Um, and we have different options in all of them. That's why I can kind of put in just one overview of all the different renderings. This one, um, they reconfigured the

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swings based on some of our feedback. And so I want you guys to take note of that. Uh, they reworked the boardwalk. And then we've talked about kind of having a boat house, a cabin, a

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something play structure for um kind of like a quiet spot, kind of an imaginative play option. Um and then they added uh this roller that has uh a

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boat on the side. Um also a jet ski rocker. [laughter] Um, so the the idea with this one Oh, and they also switched out the um tower

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on the main or on the um other island there. So, a lot with this one, they kind of put in these other play elements. Um, they come with a high price tag. So,

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if you didn't see the budget uh um on those couple of pages there, they're 40 and $50,000 for some of these things. >> Crazy. >> Um as I started going back through, I printed all the budgets for all the playgrounds to just figure out what

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those custom pieces were costing, um what some of the um accessible or inclusive pieces were costing. And I think we're kind of at a point here where we need to start picking which ones we want. >> Yeah. >> Um so they can have some direction. When

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I talked to them about the cabin, I was like, you know, can you bring the cost down by making it a smaller footprint? Can we change the siding? Um with this, it's more labor intensive. So that's kind of part of it on their end where the designers come up with something and then they're like, "Yeah, well that's,

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you know, five extra hours of labor that needs to go into con constructing that." Um, and so I said, "Leave it in there so we can get some feedback from the different designs um, and what we want

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to prioritize and really focus in on on I'll say maybe our featured pieces. And so that's kind of where we're we're at today. I brought the catalog. I brought budget.

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We got the other um other renderings so we can easily put something back in if it's just like, oh, we want that married versus this married around kind of thing. Um is the two arch evos with is that that

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thing that's right above the cabin? That is the >> um yes the Evos with belt and neck climber for 479. >> Okay. And then what is the DigiFuse boat roller table?

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>> That is this thing. >> Oh, that's that. Okay. >> Yeah. One thing I said on this one, I'm like, "Well, maybe we can have a boat next to our jet ski." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I like ski and maybe do lily pads across. >> Um, [laughter] >> this can just be jumpers.

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>> Yeah. So, I was like, maybe that's one alternative um as an idea to kind of cuz that boat roller. So, for comparison, the custom >> um part of where is that one?

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>> Yeah. Cuz >> is 435. Yeah, >> a normal like roller table is 17. >> Oh, wow. Okay. >> So, that's the difference of making it custom. >> That's how how they made it custom in this design. >> Yeah. And that little jet ski is only

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2700, which is cute. >> Yes. >> Good price. So, I think we've had a lot of different um I kind of went through and like highlighted things that were over 9,000 and then like over 15,000 in all the

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different renderings. And so, some of the things like the different merry grounds, there's significant [snorts] difference. Um the towers have a much bigger difference on some of the things. Um, and so really

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trying to maybe get some feedback on how we want to which features we want to have that are custom, right? We can't have them all. >> So, couple of different ideas that could go back and get revamped. Um, how that might look. When I look at this one,

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I think they did um they incorporated a lot of the ideas that we've shared with them. They took out some other ones. Um, if you notice, this one doesn't have any of those boulder rock climbers where one of the other renderings had a lot of the

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the boulder type things. Um, those are 9,000 $10,000. >> Yeah. >> So, um, I look at this one and I think they've just incorporated different elements of what we've asked. Mhm.

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>> Um I also see it as there's not a lot of accessible features. >> Sure. >> So even looking at like the play panels which are ground accessible. Um like three of them here on the dock are in

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wood chips. >> So like they can get to them but it's not >> as easy to get to them. So there's only one or two play panels that are on the port in place. >> Okay. >> As you look at like the ramp here, it's not one of my questions would be it's

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not flush. Like can you make it flush >> so there's not a lip? >> Sure. >> So a wheelchair could get up to that part. They wouldn't be able to go over the bridge. >> Yeah. >> Um so those are some of my questions when I look at this one. Um there's just

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a lot more stairs, a lot more net climbers, which is fun and engaging. Uh and then you look at the play panels, only one of them's kind of two of them are off the port in place. >> Play the play panel. What what specifically do they do?

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>> It's um like tic-tac-toe or maze games or um there's a bunch of different options that we haven't talked specifically. I mean, they might be sign language. Um, we can probably pick a lot of those. We just haven't gotten to that

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level of detail. >> So, everything brown is wood chip, >> correct? >> Okay. >> I I just wanted to say and I, you know, I mean, when I'm when I'm at the park now with my grandson and stuff, the biggest thing I see, one of the biggest things I see the kids play with is the where they can talk into the tube.

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That's big one. The other one too is you see all the boys get into what I call the red area up above and they sit there and they look out to see where everything is and then they play hide and seek or whatever. So yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. One of the things that they said that might be more cost effective um

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would be making like a tree fort instead of a log cabin. Um which would be kind of cool. >> That means I would imagine it's also elevated and no longer a ground element potentially. I asked for an example. Um,

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so if that's something that we'd be intrigued in, I would ask them for maybe what they think that might look like. I might have missed something at their last meeting. Is this log cabin something we asked for?

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>> Uh, it was an idea. um whether it was a log cabin or a boat house, uh a train depot, whatever theme we're going with here. Um the idea was that it one doubles as shade. Um it

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doubles as a quiet space that for people that might be over stimulated. um and then uh more of an imaginative play option versus a you know a hard physical play option. So those were some of the

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reasons of of that um that theme. They kind of went real big on it. Like front porches are cool. Yeah. >> I'd want one on my log cabin if I got a log cabin, but maybe not necessary in a playground. >> Yeah.

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Um, but that's kind of the the question here to mle over is is is there enough play value for that cost? >> Yeah, exactly. >> You know, the log cabinet's pretty simple. Like you think we could have a local contractor sponsor something like that and build it out of wood or does it

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have to be out of a certain material? Is that >> Um, we probably need it commercial. >> Okay. Um, but I I did ask him like, can you switch the play pan or like switch the siding so it's not like >> well super unique looking with the logs?

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Like >> if it's just like plastic siding, does that lower the cost? >> Yeah. >> Um, if you take off the front porch and reduce the footprint, how much does that lower the cost? What's an example of a tree fort? >> Um,

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>> that might be something we could mimic. And so those are some of the things that came to my mind if that's a route that we still want to go and incorporate um how to make it less money >> but still have some of those maybe

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desirable outcomes. >> How tall is it? Did it say >> uh it did not say >> okay >> uh I'm seeing on here 84 by 126 but those are probably the length and width.

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>> Yep. >> So I think there's ways that that could be incorporated in a at a lower price point. um but wanted, you know, do we like the bridge? Do we like a cabin? Do we want the boat roller thing? Um you go back

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through some of the other designs, there's a difference in, you know, $15,000 of merry round options or um things like that. So, >> well, the boat I mean that I assume fits

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in with what we had the discussion on that that's what our theme is, right? is lake and water. And so the boat, I like the idea of the boat and uh even those panels kind of look like the end of surfboards or something.

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I don't know. You know, those green panels, but um the boat and the cabin are $100,000, the two of them together. >> Mhm. >> It's crazy. >> That's That seems crazy. >> Yeah. >> Um >> how do they play on the boat? They just

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roll. >> You roll across them. >> Okay. >> Yeah. They're just flat rollers. It looks like with arches. >> I I imagine people would play with a cabin more than that. Um

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at least when I've seen them at parks, I don't see them overly used. It is an inclusive piece. Um and it has a different like the roller slides just have a different um feel to them. I can't think of the words right now, but they have a different feel like a stimulus, a different

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stimulus >> um than like a plastic slide and things like that. >> Is it something that would make it destination? I mean, or is it >> not? >> Well, it's it's definitely a piece of equipment that I don't see at other playgrounds.

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>> What I was wondering, you know, if that's >> I've never seen a flat one, though. Like, I don't know the purpose of a flat one. >> You just go You must dive, huh? >> You run and dive. It's an inclusive one. So, you can get on there and then you can pull yourself across with the beams over the top. >> Like you sit sit down and pull yourself across.

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>> I have to lay. >> Oh, wait. So, you get lay on your back and pull. >> Okay. I don't know where a close one around here is, but or um like if the if there's enough on the ramp that the boardwalk like that's

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another piece. Um, that one in design three was, do you guys remember that one that went across the water and was kind of a climbing thing? >> I think so. Yeah. So, the difference is >> that one, the boardwalk, they called it a ribbon and that was 31,000

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and this one is 18. >> Okay. And then like are we finding, we debated a little bit last time, is there enough play value within the mounds? Mounds kind of are their own play element. >> Yeah. >> In and of itself when you're just

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rolling down them and climbing up them and whatnot, but um bang for your buck. We're not really getting a whole lot of I think one of the ideas was to reduce the ramps.

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Um, but they're not really being used in that manner. Super cool, way fun looking, but they're not alleviating a need for a ramp in my opinion. >> If that made sense.

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>> Mhm. But I think it does make it more of a destination. >> I do too. >> I don't know if it makes it more inclusive. >> Probably not. Yeah. Do you know how high the mountains are? Does it say?

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>> Um, >> I like the mounds, but I just I think there always seem to >> I know the one off of the two to five playground over there. That's a 40 inch slide. >> Okay. Um,

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and then that other side looks fun. >> And then I think the big ones. Oh no, that can't be right. I don't know. I'm looking at >> the back side of this tower here. This

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climber thing. >> Okay. >> It says 84 in. >> Okay. >> But I'm not positive which slide that one is. >> Sure. >> Might be a It's a good question.

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It's a very good question. >> When do you have to make a firm decision on things? >> When by the time we purchase. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, >> um, so timelinewise, good question. Um, obviously we still don't know >> Yeah.

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>> exactly what our budget is. Mhm. >> So, in the grant, um, we put the budget at 740,000. >> Okay. >> Um, we'll find out somewhere in the next

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month if we got it or not. >> And then from there, we have a firm and we can keep going with this path. Otherwise, >> the budget we have is 500,000. >> Yeah. So, it's cut. >> It'd be cut in half. >> Yeah.

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Um, and so that'd be a whole different conversation to have based on the renderings we've been getting. >> Um, if we do get the grant, then we need to complete a contract. And so, simultaneously during that contract

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process, we can go through revisions um until we get our final design. depending on the needs of what that is. If we need to do an archaeological study or something of that nature, that would prolong the contracting process, but we

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cannot purchase the equipment until the contract's complete. >> Okay? >> It'd be it to our benefit to complete it in 2026 because there's a high probability that there would be a cost increase. >> Sure. >> Um they've already talked to me that

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there's, you know, the state of the world >> Yeah. Prices are going up. >> Prices are going up. The cost for oil to make the plastic, the steel, all the things. Um, it's probable there'd be a price increase. And so, we'd want to

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plan for that. And if we can purchase, a lot of people will purchase and put it in storage until they're ready to construct. So, that could be an option if we get our design complete in time. >> Okay.

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Listen, my thought would be Oh, you said at the end of this month we'll know about the grant, >> correct? >> I mean, I'd like to suggest that we have another public input meeting in maybe July. >> Yes. >> Towards the end of July and then we can

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we can throw out some of these ideas and find out if you know what people think of it. And um if you know if that log cabin for example is a real interest to people then we might have to you know that might be part of a fundraising piece that

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>> people were excited about it would they >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And if we don't get the grant then we still should have a public meeting and tell people that you know we're we're going to actually have to fundra then to get this done. >> Could individual pieces be sponsored?

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>> Yes. Mhm. >> That I think was at least always the thought I had that we would ask somebody to >> for sure >> as a individual or business or whatever to say uh you know if that log cabin is 50 grand uh you know

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>> you want your name on it 50 grand. >> Yeah. Yeah. And Bruce mentioned at the last meeting in April the importance of still needing fundraising, which there's no committee that it's not actually someone someone uh who donated for pickle ball actually

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asked for their donation back because some of this stuff is not coming to fruition as fast as people want it to. Um, so it's extremely important that we continue to get out there in front of people to share what

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we're doing, the progress we are making. And if we are close on some of these design elements, it makes it easier to get a sponsor, right? I can't be like, "You want to sponsor a swing?" Yeah. I don't know what it looks like. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Um, so now that we have some idea of

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what these cool pieces might be, it it's easier to get donors to come in. I would think. >> Yeah, I agree. Cuz I mean, if you wanted the boat, there's lots of people who could put their name on a boat. You know, >> there's still only so much space, but >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah.

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>> But yeah, I think if if we had another public input meeting, you know, and and find out, oh, you know, what people think of this design and and maybe if there's something we're missing or something that, you know, everybody says, I don't care about the log cabin, >> get that input.

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>> Yeah, I agree. Yeah, because if if we get the grant, it's we're going to have to move pretty quickly on deciding because the order like by the time you order, it takes a long time to make it. >> Yeah. >> Um and then the construction and and everything in the in the gr >> and then we'd still have to finish like

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final engineering and all of that too to go along with it. Um, and I know we Alyssa talked about like getting to the school and talking to the school like, you know, obviously they're done for the year and we're not quite there yet. Um,

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I did pull the kindergarteners when they were playing at the park, what that what their favorite things were. Um, and so it's it's quite interesting and there's a large variety. Um, so I think, you know, as long as we're incorporating a spinner, climbing,

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monkey bars, like you're hitting all kind the swinging, getting kind of all the movements. Um, >> you're hitting all the primary things that they like. They really like the zipline in Pine River, which Landscape Structures does not make that zipline.

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>> No, it's more like the school's zipline, not the Pine River zipline. >> Okay. >> But but I'm with Alyssa. I think if we have some people some equipment that's like you said more of a destination. Okay. That's not >> that's not in peak water. It's not in river. It's not you know um then that's

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kind of a unique thing that we have that we can bring. >> Yeah. One of the things we're talking about is kids obviously don't know the names of the parks and they're like oh I want to go to the zipline park or I want to go to the the monkey bar park or the red one. What's Niswah is going to be like the

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landforms or the cabin or the boat? >> Yep. I want to go to the boat park, >> you know, they're going to call it something. >> So, what's our something? >> You know, I know Cross Lake has that nice city playground, but I mean, if you guys have been to the one that that's at

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the campground there by the dam, >> that's a fantastic I was just there the other day with my kids, grandkids, and >> Yeah, it's small and really well done. >> Yeah. And it's and it's got a unique character to it, too, you know, because it kind of ties into the campground. >> Do you think someone from the design

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Would they if we had like a meeting at you know the third week of July or fourth week of July would we be able to get somebody from the design folks to come and >> it would be nice asked >> you know if we to answer questions that

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people might have >> and it's kind of twofold with the design and then like the sales rep who comes up with like the final budget of everything. Um, so it's kind of two different people working together to complete the product or to complete

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this. So I can ask and um kind of see what that looks like. >> Just wondered if you could reach out to them and say, "Hey, if we schedule something towards the end of July, would you have somebody to be able to come up?" >> Yeah. >> Okay. [snorts]

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>> Right. be nice if it was uh where they could be on right now and we could go, you know, go through it. >> That may cost more. >> At what point can you pitch sponsorship to places?

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>> Me >> or or me? Um I would maybe have to think through or see what that looks like cuz again without a fundraising committee or people that are we're very limited in our capacities um

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I would have to check into that a little bit. >> Okay. >> But I think we'd want to know for sure that that's something that we'd liked in the design like if >> Yeah. >> Right. and then kind of bounce back and forth off of them if there's tweaks to it.

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>> Yeah. >> So, are you looking for a comments for a revision before next month or is are we is this what you want to present at the public meeting in July? Um, I will also leave that up to you guys to

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have a discussion on that. To me, to answer that, we I don't really see a need to do a revision before we find out if we have the grant or not. Um, but then that also that's one more month,

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right? So, do we want to do we like what we're seeing in any of the designs that we want to start picking and choosing and putting them in? Like, do we think we have enough or do we still need like you're still missing the mark? They weren't convinced that this is it

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either. So, even on their end, they're like, "Yeah, I'm not sure, but we need more feedback." >> Who who said that? the playground designers, >> but they presented it to us anyways, knowing that >> I I told them to. They're like, "We're

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not sure this is quite it." And I'm like, "Well, let me show this for contrast and comparison because this has elements that we've never looked at. And do we want more ground elements? Do we want to start? The first ones were very ramplike, very traditional. Um, this one

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is not quite as traditional. hardly anything to mass. >> Correct. So I I guess I would kind of those are the two ways that I look at it as to why

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or why not. Um and it does take them two to three weeks to go through it all. And then um obviously we have a lot of cutting we need to do from our design. Swapping. Swapping.

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I'll call it swapping. We have swapping to do. >> The thing I think about this one is it would be easier to sell to sponsors. I mean, I can think of four different pieces and who I would pitch it to.

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>> And it kind of seems like a no-brainer to me where these, you know, when you get kind of the more generic pieces, why would they sponsor it? You know, it doesn't feel like their business, >> right? So that's my only feedback on this that I >> that makes sense.

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>> You know, >> I liked I feel like did was the second version higher? Was there more height in the second version or >> maybe there wasn't? >> The second version is when they put the playground

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the or the swings by the uh east side by the picnic shelter. That was version two. So, one and two had a lot more ramps. >> Okay. >> Um, and through all of them, the two to 5-year-old playground, we really haven't

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focused much on that one or there's been modifications to it, but >> it's pretty close to the same thing throughout. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I don't I mean if it's a custom piece and I don't know what it would cost but what occurs to me is instead of

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a log cabin I'd rather have a covered pontoon you know if you're going to crawl around on something that's covered and we want to fit it in with the lake theme. >> Yeah. >> But I don't know what something like that would cost but >> would it make or like a boat house we

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kind of gave left it open. >> Um whether it's the cabin by the water a boat house by you know the lake. Um, we've never gone down the train theme. We've stuck with water and turtles.

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[clears throat] Well, if you were playing imagine, like if you're more imagining what's going on, it does fit, you know, like any sort of house would cabin house would fit in the in the play scheme. You know, you can go to your house and then you're

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going to go in your boat. >> I go to this one. I go to my cabin. and I go to the park to go to the cab. >> Yeah, [laughter] >> we love cabins. >> Little shops might be kind of cute, >> you know. >> Yeah, that might be >> I think there is like a storefront window.

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>> Um under under the two to five. >> So, they do have some of those kind of like play >> ice cream. >> Yeah. You know, >> Oh, we're always serving wood chips to each other. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> See what Mark's got there. He's got a heck of a make that

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>> it Mark. We're trying to reduce our budget. >> No, no, but it he's he's got a submarine there that would cost about the same as the log as the log cabin. >> Was this one again? I can't remember. >> And to me that with the water theme they got all sorts.

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>> We can make this as custom as we want. However, >> show that to >> our budget is skyrocketing as we customize. >> Yeah, >> but they but that instead of a log cabin, >> but you wouldn't go on a submarine when you come up to your cabin in the lake. >> Oh, I know. [laughter]

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>> It's more more of a water theme, though. >> I guess, but isn't this like up north to cabin? >> Have you ever been on there? >> I can go. >> No, I should go. Go on there and you just put in there where you're thinking. >> I would say it's one more thing. They got other stuff, too.

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Sorry, Amber. >> Yeah, you derailed everyone. >> I don't want to sever >> fun ideas. >> It has to go in the water, though. It can't go in the chips. >> Remember when they put the >> We need a water fe is what we >> I mean, we need like $3 million for our

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plug down here. >> Oh, there you go. >> Oh, that'd be cool. Well, I just I Yeah, I know we're joking about the submarine, but to me, it just that appeals to me more because number one, it it would definitely be unique and number two, it's it fits in with the water thing we

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have. So, whether it's a a submarine or a a boat house or a pontoon or whatever, I I mean, I just I kind of like that idea more. You know, you were referring to what what playgrounds would be known as, and you know, this one would be known as the water playground or or

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that's where the submarine is or whatever. Could be the cabin playground too. You know what I mean? Like it could be like we're going up to the cabin, let's go to the cabin park, you know? Could be that too if you think of >> I think both could obviously work and maybe it does come down to like a price and a size and or like you know if you

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go into a boat and now you got the viewfinders and like it's interactive that way. I think they >> or it's a store >> because the green is supposed to be grass, right? the >> island >> wood chips are supposed to be land and

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then the blue is water, >> right? >> Yeah. >> And there is some um they said they could shrink up the port in place a little bit on this design. Um but it is bigger than it's been. >> Okay.

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>> Not much. Now, does the public have final say as to once the design's done, this is what we have in it, are they going to go yes or no, or this is the final say? What >> um I think they should be engaged along the way so they can feel like they've

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been included before we even get to a final. >> Okay. So hopefully then that doesn't matter. But >> and I've never gotten that far in the process. >> Yeah. So the only other thing I think would be fun is and maybe this takes

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away from accessibility so I don't want to do that but like where those jumper things are onto the green grass like creating jumper things off. Do you know what I mean? So like you could jump around the whole part um like at the top where those

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on on this side on the right hand side you know those are in the water. Oh, >> like and then you can jump onto that green mound and then this part, this water part, if there were like additional lily pads or stones or something there, it would be kind of cool. >> Like a course where you would not touch the water.

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>> Yeah, exactly. >> Hop around. Yeah. >> Yes. Like >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Floor is lava. >> Great idea. >> Floor is water. >> Yeah. That's one of the thoughts is if we didn't want the boat, then you could go from here

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and stone or lily pad. Yeah. >> across to get to this island. >> Did the Did the spider disappear? The climbing spider >> that was in the third one. Is that where where it was? That's what I was

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wondering, too. >> Yeah. I thought we had one of those in there. >> Climbing spider. >> Yeah. >> With the rocks. >> This, you know, the spiders are kind of like the old monkey bars, you know. Uh I thought we had one of those in one of the designs I saw. I guess maybe that's

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disappeared now. >> I think you're right, though. >> Maybe it was in the handdrawn. [laughter] >> Bring it back. >> It might have been. I don't know. But I agree with you. I feel like I remember

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>> positive which one you're talking about. I remember like version two had the rocks with the net across. >> Yeah. >> Had a climbing one. >> Yeah. I don't know if it was a net or or kind of like but that's why I'd like to have the I

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mean I'd like to have the public meeting and throw throw this out there and then >> agree. >> Maybe find out what what other people think. So, for the public, would you guys want this one or should I um as we kind of look at it like pull out some of these elements so

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they can like I mean I have an all versions highlighted everything over like $9,000. like looking at some of those higher ticket items, some of these custom pieces, like what do what are we wanting

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them to help select the overall playground specific pieces? Both. >> Both. I would say I would want feedback on the whole thing. Yeah. >> Do we have thoughts on how to get people there this time?

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>> I know it's a good question. I know Stephen talked about having like a QR code and a sign at the park. >> I would make it online somehow. Maybe in the same way you send out the >> Can can I jump in real quick? That town hall meeting we have Tuesday, maybe it

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can be mentioned there that we're looking for input. >> Yep. >> I don't know if that'll work or if that's something you'd be ready to do. >> Well, I wouldn't have a date or a time or any info like that, but >> Okay. But yeah, Stephen had the QR code to I

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could see if there's a way. I don't know how I could maybe get images to that though. >> Well, >> I don't I've never I don't know that we'd have the design, but can we mention it? >> Get it on the website somewhere and have the QR code Yeah. lead to a URL.

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>> Yeah. >> Or Survey Monkey. Yeah. >> Like we have Survey Monkey, but can you put a picture in the Survey Monkey? >> Pretty sure. Yeah. Okay. I'll have to go maybe go play with it. >> Yeah. >> Track them like what you want answered. You know, could we

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>> I even think like theme too like do you want more underwater theme? Do you want >> this theme might be kind of interesting to see what people be fun. What is the destination theme? >> Yeah. >> You know how people rank on there too? Like one, two, three, four, five. Tell me. >> Right. >> Yeah. There's

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>> um yeah, I'll have to see what >> features we have >> on the level we pay for. >> I don't know how how it varies. >> Sure. >> Yeah, I can play with that to see how

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electronic we can get because I think that might be a better >> grabber than trying to get people to come in in the summer. >> Mhm. >> You got to go to them, too. >> You have to go to them. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How do you go to them? >> How great.

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>> How many people do we have in our email list of like the people you send the newsletter to of the >> None? It was a paper copy. >> The >> We don't keep emails. >> Who do how does like when people sign up to get the emails of the agenda? >> It we don't maintain it. Yeah. You got

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to opt in and opt out. >> Oh, but we we don't have the name. >> I don't know if we could or if that would be advised. >> Okay. I'll just think and push a survey to those people who are already interested in >> anyone who has signed up to receive like park and wreck registration

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things. I can push it there. Um, >> yeah. >> Any of the youth the youth sports or like parents that have kids that already active in the parks, you know, like if they have your if they have emails with the city already

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for sports. >> I just got to be careful on how I use them because nobody's asked to be solicited. >> Okay. >> I was thinking a good way to get it out there. >> Yeah. If you could figure out the QR code, you could maybe do something around, you know, Fourth of July part

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the Yeah. You know, the um parade maybe. Not that you want to walk in the parade. >> Yeah. Even if we could print up some flyers, put it up at the park, >> hand it out. Yeah. I'll have to see what resources are available to see what I can do for an

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electronic option. Um, but just to confirm, it'd be showing version 4. Or are there any other pieces in any of like if I wanted to go through and like

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take a snippet of let's see I want this climber and I can put a picture of that climber in there and is there any of those things that we've seen in any of the drawings that we'd

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want potentially to bring back in? Well, I again I we can pick and choose. I mean, I like the spider because I just know that my grandkids have been on those and they like them. But I mean, we could probably be sitting here all night kind of picking out stuff that we want. Um

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I'd be more inclined to say, let's just go with what we got. But if we could have somebody from the design there with some, you know, with some options, if somebody says, "Well, what about this?" And you know, what would be the cost of that? Then then we can get that answer right away that night.

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Um, I'm just what I was going to suggest is maybe not a flyer, but I wonder if we could put up a if we had something like this with a little sign on it and put it up at at the uh, you know, the turtle races in in on Wednesdays in July, you

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know, until we have the meeting, you know, just, you know, little stand that's by the chamber booth there or something and say, "Hey, please come to the meeting." And whether it's residents or non-residents, the non-residents are going to be using it too. So

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>> put it at city park too like >> Yeah, you had that one court thing. >> And I'll tell you what, I don't know baseball games going on. You go and the out of town just the family just that

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>> Okay. Well, I will see what I can come up with um based on our survey monkey and what I can pull from stuff if somebody could be available. Um

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maybe I'll shoot out some some days to see who else could be available um for a on-site in-person meeting. Um, unless we wanted to do it like in conjunction with a parks commission

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meeting. That'd be July 9th or August 6th. >> Yes. July 9th or August 6th would be our park commission nights. >> Yeah. I would say by the I mean I knowing what Steve said and what you were talking about the cost. I think by

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by August we need to probably make that decision what we're going to do, you know, in order to get this completed. >> Yeah, I would think we'd want to give solid feedback by August because then by September we would get another rendering

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and then by October you're looking at hopefully a final. And when does the when do we get notified on the grant? >> Somewhere in the next month. >> Okay. So, I mean that would be a determiner too. Kind of sort of annoying.

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>> It's kind of a I mean it'd still be good feedback to have from people and good to notify. Um but it might completely change how we approach it. >> Yeah. At least we know the priorities and what to cut first, you know, based on what people would say.

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>> Yeah. I mean, would you consider putting the two favorite this and then version three so they could see what they could look like or are you afraid that if we put too many versions then they're like >> people might get confused. >> Yeah.

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>> Yeah. Uh that's possible. On that first one I had the just two that we had for comparison purposes. >> Yeah. >> Um but I think maybe picking out like >> Sure. Like I said, maybe it's this merry ground or that merry ground or like this

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rock climber versus this climber. >> I think this does a better job at custom. >> The boat the Yeah, >> like cuz the this the bridge, the dock, the boat, the house are all very high ticket items.

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>> Yeah, >> the merry grounds cost a fair bit of money. So, let's make sure we get one that we want. >> Yep. Um, so kind of looking at some of those bigger elements, I think having those highlighted as as I'm talking out loud, um, just to see where

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we could where people are most interested in investing. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> Cuz I mean, if it's this slide or that slide, that's not a huge price difference. >> Mhm. >> Then I show this, I think.

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>> Okay. I think in the meantime too, I would keep landscape structures busy. Since we have a a few weeks, you might as well keep them working. Um, even if we don't have any recommendations, maybe they just say it's getting closer, but you

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know, could you keep making changes? Because we can always go back to this version if we don't like the next one or maybe merge them together. >> Um, okay. And so with that being said, looking at the structure structures, is there anything you like or want to

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swap kind of thing? Um, this one, if you remember, in version three, had a bunch of nets that you crawled up. >> Um, which was a fairly pricier version. This one's a little bit >> That's what I was referring to. The >> Oh, that one spiders.

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>> Yeah. So, that one's a little higher price point than this. Um, but this one's obviously a little bit more generic. I >> mean, go for go for it and then dial it back. [laughter]

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>> How creative is the designer guy with landscape structures? I mean, can we just give him >> as creative as our budget allows? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I mean, he knows our budget. >> So, is this the >> And we keep going over it. >> Yeah. >> Is this the best he can do? Like is this

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is this it on his end or does he have more? >> Well, we have like you said 100,000 wrapped up in a boat and a house. >> Yeah. >> So, if we would take that stuff out then you can So, it's just that's where it

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is. We're really at a kind of tipping point on how to prioritize the money and like how much we swap out some of the stuff on the structures to kind of some of these custom pieces. My mind just tells me that those are going to be easy to find sponsors for the custom pieces.

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Like even I would if I was a builder in town, I would ask for even a bigger house if I could make it $100,000 into my house. Now my name's on there. I'm not a builder. So >> I want a twotory. [laughter]

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>> Yeah. But I wanted to represent what I build, you know? I want to build Yeah. I wanted to show cabin I can build. >> Okay. So, okay, Bruce, I understand what you mean on the spider one. It was this tower with those layers of nets to climb up. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, so that's a good one to

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compare and contrast and see what people are interested in. >> Yeah. >> Um, anything. So, this we've kind of gone away from the ramps and the things like that. Um, this has a lot of net climbers. There's not a traditional

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monkey bar. Um, >> you climb sideways on that one, right? Correct. There's two of them that climb sideways. So you got this. Let me see. >> It'd be nice to have monkey bars if possible, but the climb sideways looks fun, too.

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>> Yeah. Um, so this is a ladder and then in back of it, it's kind of one of those waves that you crawl. It's pretty high up. >> Yeah. [cough] >> For [clears throat] anyone that's uh new to climbing. Do is this

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also is it accessible enough though? >> That's I would say is to me a limiting factor in this one. >> Okay. >> Cuz you have like a plate a communication board over here. Not that wood chips aren't accessible.

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You can wheel across wood chips. It's just much harder. >> Yeah. So, like getting to these play panels over here, if you can't go up the ramp, then you got to go through the wood chips. >> Okay. >> Um,

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>> the other thing I think we should kind of push them on. >> So, um, yeah, you can see like this has a bunch of stairs and then this is this is like a net ramp going up stairs. Um,

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oh, there's a better picture. >> And then we I know we talked about like seating and stuff. Is there's still room for seating? And if >> it's all outside, >> um, yeah, other than they put these log benches back in.

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>> Okay. is the design company, do they have like diaramas where they have model little model models of the equipment and you can kind of hold them and visualize it better and move them around.

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>> Not that I've heard. Um, >> a lot of those aren't being used anymore. >> I say I'm I'm guessing it's all computer digital. Yeah, I was talking to my son GM. They don't even do those anymore. It's all

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It's all online. It's all computer. >> Yeah, I'm a hands on guy, >> but a lot of companies are getting away from that. It's all, you know, virtual reality, the 3D stuff. That's how we do it. >> Maybe maybe that's what we need is buy one, just buy a 3D printer and print do

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our own stuff. >> All right. Well, I think I got some some things to work through on this and I will keep you guys posted um and what I find for an electronic survey or what we can do for a public

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public engagement um efforts. Well, it'd be nice to pick a date, you know, like if maybe I'm just thinking two weeks after our our July 9th meeting, like the 23rd or something, just if we can start getting the date out to people.

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>> Yeah, I would have to look, assuming you want it at the community center, I'd have to look to see what's available. Um, unless we wanted it here somehow at city hall. >> Or we can do it in the park. >> Yeah, [snorts] it might be fun.

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>> Do it outside under a picnic shelter. papers might blow away, but we could do it. >> Yeah. Like on a night when you have baseball or >> uh it would be done in July. There'll be softball and then the Lightning have

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like some Friday night games >> or Yeah, like the kids ball. >> It's done by then. It's done at the end of the month. there. You're going to have a lot of parents just standing here looking for something to do besides >> and then soccer and football don't start

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till September. >> So kind of makes sense. >> It would make sense. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't know how you do it, but >> I know that's a big that's >> I'll see what's available like the third

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or fourth week of July if we want to different we want to shoot the gap between our meetings. >> Okay. I suppose you can't get in front of them too early because we don't know. Yeah, >> I can say we we're working on it and we're going to have another public

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engagement coming up. Okay. All right. If you have final thoughts and epiphies that come to you, just email me, call me. Um, but let's move on to new business. Uh, you guys have a

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uh a first run at the community center uh agreement. So, you got a red line and a clean copy in there. Um, and then a summary of some of the research that we did. Um, we did not include prices

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because they are all over the place. >> Okay. >> Um, so Jane did some some searching for us. Um, got five different venues, kind of different options, different cities. Um, one's private. Uh but you have a

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couple of different options um in that summary page of what we've received. And previously when we've talked about this, we kind of talked about charging nonprofits and um charging the room as the room and things

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like that. Right now, what's in there is more similarly laid out to like kind of the existing uh platform where it's like kind of larger events that have more of a a high demand, more people um would be kind of

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at that third level. Um and so just kind of a tiered approach, a different way of framing it and defining it. Um there's different pricing on the the version the clean version. Um

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and then like nonprofits instead of 50% off on the weekend, it'd be a full rate if they were to rent on a weekend. And so that discount would is only Monday through Thursday. Um,

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>> so maybe ask this of you and Mark, but you know, because I've been through this nonprofit discussion before on on other city- owned facilities and um, you know, the question becomes a little bit is,

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you know, is that a service that the city should be providing to nonprofits or are is in effect the city subsidizing a nonprofit? And you know, I mean, I I'm I'm not I'm I'm just throwing ideas out. I'm not necessarily arguing one way or the

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other, but I've been through this discussion. >> The discussion I had when I was at the city facility that that I was on is that the problem was is that the facility was, as we're doing now with the community center, you know, it needs a lot of maintenance. It needs a lot of

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upkeep. And so the more the nonprofits used it, the less dollars you had to do that. So the city was in effect, you know, subsidizing a lot of that that work. So I guess to me it would be nice to know some direction either from city

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staff or from city council as to is that a service that that we should providing to nonprofits locally. And if it is, then fine. If it's not, then I'm not sure that a discount is warranted.

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that few years back. >> Yes. >> Well, well, here here's and here's what I here's here's what I'd say to that is is we had the same agreement when with the JC's with the JC's in Detroit Lakes. And I sorry I keep always bringing up

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Detroit Lakes, but we had we had a discount for the JC's. In fact, we let them use it free. And the reason we did that is a they had a lot of fundraisers of which I was part of that raised money for that facility. So the JC's were raising money and helping maintain the facility and B they were bringing a lot

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of people to town with their events. So to me the Lions I would throw the Lions out separately. That's a whole different deal. I'm just talking about other nonprofits. You know you got um United Way or Yeah. somebody wants to come and

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hold a a fair there. I mean does it make sense to give them a discount or not? That's what I'm asking. >> I know. I go on that what they do is they don't get a discount at different places. They get charged the same way as

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you know if they want to go to this event center they get charged what I would get if I was having you know that's something you guys >> I think it's a worthy discussion to have if this commission would like to make a recommendation um ultimately this will go through a

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legal review and put before city council um so it's definitely a worthy debate some of the nonprofits um they're mostly during the weekday. And so you have the lions that use it twice a month. Um Girl Scout different Girl Scout troops or Boy

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Scout troops will kind of do their monthly meeting there. Um we have a women's group that meets there and they do pay a um their own unique amount based on like their bylaws. Um and so there is a little bit of

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deviation depending on like the organization and their use of it. Um and when it comes to a weekend event where we would be booking weddings or things like that, um that's kind of it brings it to another level of

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discussion. Um and so what changed between the current and this draft is that a nonprofit would only um receive like a waved fee Monday through Thursday. a Friday through Sunday rental

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would be at full price. So that's kind of the difference between the two. Um so maybe it does allow for some of that community involvement space um that I think has long been desired here. Um

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but also trying to help remain fiscally responsible. >> Yeah. And and and I'm with you. I mean, you know, I hate to say, well, we got to charge the the Boy Scouts or the Girl Scouts, cuz I mean, those those troops don't have the money to >> to pay for it either. And if that's a

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good community service, I'm okay with that. I'm not trying to argue one way or the other. But just having that discussion to make sure that we as a commission know that there's a cost to that and maybe maybe you're right. Maybe Monday through Thursday is fine for >> for no fee or or maybe you institute a

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fee and then you can always come back and wave it if you want. or I'll say like uh the park and wreck programs, we don't run them on a Saturday there. We only run them during weekdays. So that's that's one way that we go about it. But if we're looking at that, then am I, you know, in the same

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dialogue, do I pay to rent it for safety town? I think that'd be a fair discussion as well. or when we have town halls there, >> when we have open houses, I'd lump all those in.

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But that is a worthy discussion and I think ultimately kind of trying to land somewhere would be part of this process, Bruce. >> Yeah. So nonprofits, local government units, Crowing County, I'd charge them double. [snorts] Sometimes there's like water testing

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things there. Um there's a lot of different things, but if it's like uh somebody's holding, you know, their end of season banquet, those unless it's [snorts] like Tuesday night, you know, it would come with a

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cost. And then the other thing is um that if you're asking for these additional services that they would be charged at full price regardless of what level. >> Sure. >> So that's another we have that written

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there. I'm carrying that through. >> But otherwise this agreement I assume you've been through this with Tom. >> We will once we get to a final And if you haven't seen the updates, >> there's a little video >> in and see. I haven't seen them. You're

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talking about the updates over there. Yeah, I want to see them. Yeah, >> I made her. >> Maybe we could have our u our July meeting over there.

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Did the rental for weddings I know you touched on that but I don't know if I heard you say oh there we go. >> Oh yeah. Wow. That is definitely a nice upgrade. >> Yeah,

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[laughter] that's a big difference. I'M LIKE, I GOTTA LOOK AT THE BATHROOMS. >> YEAH, that's what I was most excited about. [laughter] >> Yeah, it look totally different. >> Oh, yeah. Wow. >> Yeah. Did the price increase? Did the Did the price increase

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>> or didn't we? >> Didn't we cover it yet? Yeah, >> you know the designers, so they came in for >> Yeah, >> but we had people from the east coast going, "Oh my god, if this was in our room."

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>> Uhhuh. No, I know. I know. It's a >> You asked the price for um weddings. >> Yeah. Did it Did the price increase? Cuz I talked about that a while back. >> Yeah. So, we kind of went from like the party package so kind of like tier three. >> Okay. Um, and so there's instead of

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calling it a 1 day, a 2-day, or three-day, what's proposed here is you have a one day and then any additional days. >> Okay. >> Um, so the price does show an increase on both the one-day rental, the hourly

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rental. Can you see this? Is this too small? See that? I can see it. >> Um, so the hourly rental was 45, went up to 50. Uh the daily was at 350 went up to 450 all subject to discussions here.

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Um the one day wedding went from 850 to 9 and then instead of 2 and 3 day it's just any additional day would be that 450 rate that's the same. >> Is it still the rule if it's under 100 people or did that >> that would also be up to debate because

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we do have weddings that are >> Yeah. >> small. >> Yeah. there. Um, you know, 50 people receptions. >> Um, so >> if that's a stipulation we kind of still want to put on there or not. Um, this language is can all be debated tonight.

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>> Okay. Okay. >> I see. >> How to make it more clear? How to what are we forgetting? Um, do you want to quantify it somehow? Um, I'll say in general, even if it's a small wedding, usually the expectation's different. >> Mhm. >> In terms of cleanliness, preparation,

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things like that. >> Yeah. >> So, are there weekends in the summer where it is not being rented? >> Yes. >> That's surprising. >> Another thing to keep in mind here is our ability to flip it on a weekend. >> Sure.

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>> Four weddings. October has been full every uh these last two years. June we are full. Um and then we have like Run for the Lakes, a firecracker run, the chamber held

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their chamber dinner there this year. Um those are some of the consistently bigger ones. Uh August is usually a little slower. Um, >> so by one day it would mean you have to be out at midnight

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>> clean up. So you're assuming most people will probably do the two days so then they can come back the next day and clean up for their wedding. >> I mean that's what I would do but that's not what everybody does. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, my initial thought is with just looking at what's been done over

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there is we might want to pop those prices up just a little bit on tier tier three >> super affordable. >> Like when we were looking for my daughter and her husband was looking for place the three-day package which which

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they got for here less than >> one night. >> Yeah. >> That's why I'm Yeah. So, how would you compare that if we're going with this tiered section? Um, would you bump all of them up more or just large events or what would that

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look like? >> I think I would >> space is still the space and that was kind of the argument um a while ago. A while ago, the space is the space regardless of who's using it, >> right? >> Um there are different expectations with

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larger groups. there's more wear and tear with larger groups. Um, so how do we kind of go about that? >> Well, like a graduation party versus a wedding, you know, there's going to >> that's like

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because if I'm going to have like my kids' birthday party there. >> Yeah. I'm not paying, you know, 450 for the day. >> Yeah. I don't. So just it it it has a wide range of uses, a very wide range of

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uses, which is fantastic. >> But how do we write that in paper? That's kind of the discussions here. >> Is that why they originally had the the number of people? >> I think so. Yeah. >> So like like if I'm going to have a birthday party there, I'm only 15 kids

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and I'm going to be there two hours. >> Yeah. You know, you don't want to pay 400. I mean 900, >> but you got to look at >> Yeah. >> You know, u I always look at this if we raise tear

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people up. I don't think so because I mean the people that have had their weddings there, I think they've either seen pictures of what it looks like or they talked to people that that do that. And >> so I don't I really don't know. So on

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average, we probably have about 8 to 10 weddings a year. There's significantly more like small group type things than there are weddings.

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Um but then you you know you spend half a day, you have a three-hour bridal shower and now you're not having a wedding in there, right? like we've had it where there's backto-back bridal showers in a day, but again, we as staff that need to

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go check it in between. Um >> I I know you you had a year ago you had some budget information. That's what I'd probably be interested in is how much has it been the revenue, you know, what what are some of the you know, for not renting it, but then also the cost of

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the facility and just what is that deficit? I assume we're at a deficit on it. Yes, our revenue that we bring in is about 17,000. Um the transfer alone for our capital

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savings is about 23,000. So that's the transfer that it receives >> because I would even think like an AM rental would be cheaper than a PM rental. >> Yeah. you know, >> and I've seen places do that too where it's a 4 hour block and you can do four

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hour 8 to 12 or I want 2 to six, you know, or >> the one thing I was wondering is is like when they have weddings or they have events there where the alcohol, you know, the bar is open and that's from the pickle. Um, now I know you can say, well, you know, at the end of the year you get a little

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bit from the pickle back into the city, but is there any way to look at maybe that a small percentage can go to the community center of that, you know, like a 3% of the total sales. Um, you know, maybe that'd be something we can look into because that would help with that.

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>> I think it's definitely something the city could look into, but in general, like it goes into the general fund and then the general fund transfers, >> right, >> to cover our capital. So, it's not direct, but going in all the pots,

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>> Peter and Paul, but >> and and people have to use the pickle for the liquor. >> Correct. >> Yes. And they did they did solve the problem with, you know, um like I told Terry after that wedding with, you know, and a couple other things too is they would have made more money if they had

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that card reader and now they do. So, that's addressed and that will >> not help the pickle. Well, I I think your idea is a good one and and that would then adhere to anybody that got a liquor license to sell their other than the pickle. I didn't know if it was just a pickle.

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That's just >> So, in general, do we I mean, we can debate prices, but do we like this kind of setup to keep something like this? Do we want to deviate from this? I'll say one of the ones that I looked

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at was the Arboritum and they have a wedding and a non-wedding. >> Yeah. >> Um same rooms, wedding and non-wedding. Um most other places had no no differentiator

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um that I remember. I think the you think you need the tears for wedding. just a different it's a different entity, you know. But I also wonder if in under tier two if there's a way that you can

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I don't know segment it. You need you would need to do that but like >> small like >> small like maybe we just put small events like under 100 people and large events over 100 like just finding a way to help >> because a graduation party feels different than a kid's birthday party

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you know than a celebration of life. Also, if you're trying to get backtoback, again that point of do you have AM PM rentals? How do they how do they normally schedule? Like if if I'm going to call you and say I want a birthday party, can

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I just say I want >> to pick the time? >> And then um if somebody calls and wanting that same day, depending on a lot of things. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Depends on a lot of things. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Whether we can do it or not. Well,

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Amber, just off the top of my head, I' I'd throw that tier two to $60 an hour. Leave the rental at $450 a day. And then onto the weddings. And so then that would come back to Alyssa where you're talking about the 100 people. I'd say

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tier two is 100 people or less. And then tier three, I'd go to 950 and 500. And then that would be 100 plus. That's at least my initial thought for

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discussion >> till 950 and 500. >> So every little bit >> and then usually the additional days while they may have like a groom's dinner or a brunch typically it's set up

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and take down. >> Yeah. Just every little bit helps uh in my my mind. >> And it's still very affordable. >> Well, especially looking at how it's been fixed up now. >> Exactly.

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>> I mean, I would think you might get some renewed interest from people. >> Would you guys do to those costs seem >> Yeah. >> to reiterate, tier two is less than 100 people to quantify it. And then the rental per hour is 60. Tier three is

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over 100 people. Rental 950 or 500 for additional days. >> And then I I just would have like to have a discussion maybe with the city council, but to me a nonprofit is not a local government unit or Crowing County. I mean, if they're going to have a

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meeting there, we we should charge them we should charge them something. I don't >> charge the nonprofit. Well, I don't consider them a nonprofit in the sense that they're a governmental unit. So, we're a governmental unit. To me, then then we're subsidizing another governmental unit. You know, they have a

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budget constraint, we have budget constraints, right? If it's a township that wants to meet there or Crowing County that meets there, they can build that into their budget and then we've got the revenue. So, I I I don't I don't I don't compare them with a Boy Scout or Girl Scout troop.

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>> Okay? What I'm saying is if if Crowing County or a township wants to have a, you know, or the watershed district wants to have a meeting there, let's charge them a hundred bucks or something. That that would be my opinion. >> Well, based on how this is written up, I would count them as tier 2 as a business

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meeting. >> Could charge them like a business meeting? Yes. >> Um, would we want to specifically say that city of Niswah events come under tier one? >> Yeah. or should city of Niswah

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have to pay to rent it? >> No, no, no. I know. >> I think you should put it in tier one. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, uh strike local government in Crowing County. Uh and then then I'd consider that a business meeting. >> Yes.

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>> Um and then events are tier one. >> Yeah. I I was being a little facicious earlier about charging crowing county double, but I mean again they can build that I if they want to have a meeting they can build that hundred bucks or 150 bucks or whatever it might cost into the

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I mean that's in their budget. Why is the city of Nisa subsidying other government >> holding that for staff use? >> Is there a tier that under 50 or no? Is that just too much? >> Under $50 or I mean Bruce 60. Oh, under

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50 people. >> Yeah, because again, like if I'm gonna have a birthday party for my kids, I don't 120 bucks. It' probably be three hours, four hours >> plus toys. >> Plus toys. That's getting That's getting up there. >> Um just cuz I live in that age group.

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>> Yeah. >> Right now. >> What does like the bounce charge you? >> Um I want to say that's closer to 200 that bounce place in Brainard. When you look at like if you wanted to go through Peekquat Community Ed and use like their gym >> and they have different little packages

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there, that's about 180 65 185. >> Okay. So, be nice to have a birthday party option that was like around 200 bucks or less. >> So, if you do a three-hour rental Yeah. >> you're at 170 with toys, no kitchen.

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>> Yeah. I don't know. >> [laughter] >> It's tough when uh your little ones have winter birthdays. >> Yeah. >> And then you're in it >> because you could do two little kid birthdays during the day. >> Yeah. >> You know, easily.

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>> Yeah. Everybody that's born November through April. >> So that's 60 bucks >> for you. >> Did you you you proposed tier two would be $60 an hour? >> Yes. >> Okay. Now you're at 80. You just I just know

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that the cost of I mean it again what did we put into this facility just what was that >> 140? >> Yeah. >> So you know we need I mean there's there's a cost to this stuff. >> Sure. >> And food. >> Yep. >> There are no preferred vendors. So

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>> Okay. >> You put pizzas in there. >> Yep. Okay. >> It's your choice. You can bring a crockot. can >> Yeah. >> Well, it gets it gets >> Yeah. >> And then I guess how quickly do we want to make these jumps too?

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>> Like I don't want to be doing this every price increase every year. Um >> Yeah. But maybe that's another consideration too if we lay out a here this year's this jump and then in three years it's or two years it's that jump. Um

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>> after that we went to the parks. We just went to one of the pavilions. >> Well that doesn't work when you're born in December. >> Yeah I know. >> Skating it is. >> Yeah. [clears throat] But no, it is I mean that's what's kind

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of tough about what's great about our facility, but also makes it tough. >> Well, you could have a birthday party, set up in there, have kids eat pizza in there, and then they could go out to the park or they could go skating, you know, if it's winter and you've got space, >> but again, like I don't know if I would

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pay to rent that for 60 bucks an hour. I don't know if I would. I don't know >> for for 10 kids. If I only had 10 kids is what that's the thing. I like zero to 25 then you will make it last 60 >> 60.

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>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Some will, some won't. >> Yeah. >> On that though, but I the problem is is then you could you mean you'd have to have another tier because >> we're we got birthdays and graduations and the same as a business meeting. The

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business businesses be able to afford that easily. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, it's just a matter of if you want another tier in there, I guess. >> I think one of the things that kind of people have >> Well, we'll just say that it's under 50. >> Yep. And that's the thing.

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>> And that's a thing like there's a whole lot of on your honor with >> the setup we have. >> Same thing with the weddings too where people are like, "Yeah, we're under a hundred." You know, >> celebration of life, graduation, those are all very similar. Um, so if you do have too many

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>> options like most people are honest and that is a part of >> Yeah, you're right. Yeah. >> So you have on your Friday to Sunday rental under tier 2. What what are you saying the other days then or would >> tier one organizations?

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So tier one is Monday through Thursday only and then tier one organizations Friday through Sunday would be considered tier two. >> Okay. But what I'm saying is what if I want a a birthday party on a Wednesday? >> That doesn't matter. >> That doesn't matter. There's still tier

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two. >> Party is always >> So what it's saying is that if you're a nonprofit and you want to rent it on a weekend, you got to pay tier 2 prices. But if there's a better way I can write that, I'm open to suggestions.

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>> Okay, I understand. Now I'm reading that. I was just reading that differently. Okay. >> Or like I said, if there's some other party that I didn't think of or a way to Um, there were no changes to the bottom

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pricing of the additional options. You guys hire a cleaning company or >> No, it's uh park maintenance staff. >> Okay. Um I was just thinking for cleaning um like the weddings, the tier three um maybe cleaning should be

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mandatory, you know, with 200 people. Do they clean themselves or is that >> It is um Yeah. So they are in charge of cleaning it themselves. If we have to clean up above and beyond what they did, we would charge them out of their security deposit.

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>> Okay. >> Um so we kind of figure that there's going to be some level of touchup. >> Okay. >> Um and then they can also just not do any cleaning and pay for us at $75 an hour. Do generally people clean good

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>> for the most part? Yeah. Most people will leave it basically how they found it. >> See like the bathrooms I don't I can't see people cleaning bathrooms after a wedding. >> They're not. >> Yeah. >> I mean, we're not really asking anyone to get out the toilet brush. Um but it's

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just it's wipe the tables, mop the mop and sweep. Make sure that there's no crap on the floor, you know. We put away all the tables. Easy. Clean up. There's vacuum stuff to use. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Everything's there.

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>> Yep. Everything's there. So, it's basically vacuum, sweep, mop. If you need to mop, wipe a counter. Um, but we will do the deep cleaning. >> Let them do it. Then we decided, you know, midnight. because there were people

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there with family and stuff. So, we just did it, you know, and then they ended up what they had to do over them, they get charged. >> Okay. Yeah. Cuz cleaning stuck out to me as cheap. Like if you were to hire a cleaning company, it'd be much more.

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>> Uh let's see. It depends on the company around here. Around here most because I'm in that. >> So, it depends if it's commercial or home. >> You do it for 75 an hour. commercial I would do that for a city. I wouldn't do it for a private. >> Oh,

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>> um homes is is is just slightly under that. >> Okay. >> Um but then for like for like commercial stuff, it's more than that. >> Okay. >> It's a little based off of where our current wages are >> and so as the wages go up or prices in cleaning product, things like that. So,

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it's meant to cover the hourly wage of the staff plus product used, not necessarily to make excess money, but they're there and they're diverted away from something else, too. >> And the only two is businesses we have to look at too. We have sales tax on

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that, too. But we have we might have to pay sales tax depending on what it is for not bad or do kitchens those costs go up. We pil. >> So when they check that box, they're getting it's one hour cleaning

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>> or >> it will be build however long it takes. >> Oh, okay. So if they leave it really dirty. So, it's program rated at, you know, if it's an hour and a half or if it's 35 minutes, like it'll be accurate to that to actual time

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spent. Uh, there was a whole lot of rearranging of information to help the document flow better. Hopefully, hopefully flow better. Um, so that's a lot of it. um

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trying to be clear on when people are expected to pay. We have to spend some time tracking down and collecting payment. Um so that was kind of one of the changes. Um being clear, we get asked for a lot of garage sales and things like that and

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so being clear that like you can't rent it to like profit for your own profitability. I would think like a charity fundraiser would be maybe a different dialogue. Um, that's been used there a couple of times.

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>> Um, trying to define the hours better. Um, I think things that we still need to kind of iron out are like smokefree facility and it says like we use like on the premises or on the property and what does that actually how do we actually

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define some of that stuff and have it have continuity through the document. Um, so that's kind of still on our list to have further internal staff dialogue. And then um just things that have

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happened trying to have consistency in our language. Um with the changing of the payment timing, we may also look at our cancellation policy and if that needs to be amended at all.

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Um it was more strict than most of the other policies that we looked at. And then we have our cleaning checklist. So these are the things that they're responsible for. >> How many people does it hold?

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>> Fire capacity is 299 with tables and chairs 280. gets tight and you're very limited with your layout. >> I bet any other thoughts or feedback? I mean, this is kind of a new one with admission fees and prohibited functions. Um, that

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would be a very new addition for us just to kind of spell some of that expectation out in advance. of how it can be used. Um, but otherwise it's mostly the same and it's just a rearranging of

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to help it flow better. >> Probably get more for wedding too. >> Yeah, >> if you want to push it, I would think. Do you think there's a tipping point where we go too far or I should say maybe what's the tipping point um where

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then now people >> select not to use it. >> Yeah. >> And it may not be so much for weddings cuz I think weddings are probably drastically under everyone else in the area. >> Yeah. >> Um but maybe more so with that tier two. What's the tipping point of to you're saying like yeah maybe not. >> Yeah.

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>> Um same same question for weddings. >> Yeah. >> What's the Yeah, maybe not. Because like if you use a $60 an hour for a day, it's about 1,500 bucks, right? So, or for 24 hours. >> Yeah, >> technically. But so would someone pay

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$1,200? It still sounds like a pretty decent deal. >> I don't know. Is it more Is it more profitable for the city to just have it booked with weddings every weekend than to have

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>> Yep. But that's not what's been happening even at our current price point. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, I guess that's what you would need to see like what's your Yeah. Where you at? So maybe just plan it in for the future. >> Yeah. So right and and then do we like

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is it you see that um in here I struck >> I wonder >> party packages will be booked first. That's not something we generally have >> practiced.

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Um but usually typically if you're planning a wedding the lead time is much longer. Birthday party they're like oh are you free Saturday? Um versus a wedding who is you know 15 months out at times. Um

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>> yeah. So, so I mean that's why I mean that the why I suggested the 950 because that's $100 more >> than we're doing now >> and then and then the additional day. I mean I would I would probably want to start there and then if Alicia if if we

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find out that there's a lot of demand you can always increase it following years. Yeah. >> The issue that I think and and this is in my business I'm finding out um that there has actually been a lot of event centers and I think now you're finding out the tipping point is going the other

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way. There's actually so many event centers now that some of the event centers are not making it because there's now as many weddings as there was four or five years ago. Especially coming out of out of the COVID years. the event centers are really doing well

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because everybody had backed up and so for three years out of COVID you couldn't find I mean you had to book an event center three years in advance two years in advance I mean it was tough to find them but now it's gone the other way and there's been a lot of you

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mentioned the wineries there's been so many old barns that have been converted to event centers that now you can shop around and find pretty much two months out if you want a a wedding, you can find an event center somewhere. >> Well, people also do non-traditional

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events outside and >> you know, it's not the same as it you used to be. You don't have to be inside a building with a dance floor and you know, people don't really dance anymore. >> So, I'd want I'd want to have enough of an increase to reflect that we've improved the facility, but maybe not

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$1,200. >> So, the if you go to 950, that goes up by a hundred. The 450 was up by 100. If you put it to 550, that's up by 150. Um,

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and that hourly rental was at 45. So, I don't know if you want to go up five bucks, 10 bucks, 15 bucks, 20 bucks. I want that's starting to get really a pretty >> I think pretty big jump pretty fast.

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>> I thought I think 60 is a lot for an hour. like $120 for a kid's birthday I think is seems crazy to me at over there with nothing. So you're not given anything. >> Yeah. If you want to leave it at 50, I don't have an issue with that. >> But again, and then they've got your

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celebration of what you've got. There's a lot of things in that tier that are so different. That's why I was wondering if there should be as another tier for smaller events. But again, I get what you guys are saying. Well, and like a business meeting might

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only have 10 people, but they have a different We don't usually budget for our kids birthday parties. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> yeah. I guess I was just the reason I was going with the 60 is I was just looking at, you know, eight hours at $50 an hour 400 bucks and then we got at 450

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for the day. So, you know, what is what is a day? That that may be was would be the definition. So, I'm okay with it 50 or if you want to set another tier just for birthdays and grad parties, you know, whatever. >> Well, like usually the baby showers are

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sub 50 people. >> Yeah, baby showers, wedding showers or bridal showers. I guess I would want to see how much it's rented. What? Because you're right. Like if it's not it's not being rented. Why

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is it because it stealed me? >> Well, that's the other thing, too, because my husband has a conference here and he can't even go to the conference because all the facilities that they're using are over capacity. So, they had to tell their people that they couldn't

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come because they're over capacity on all the facilities they have. >> Can you see this? So they're using everything around here. Breezy, Madden, Screens, everything is over capacity that they can't even have the rest of their people come.

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>> Grand the Midwest. >> Yeah. >> Can you guys see this? Is this big enough? >> Uh yeah. >> One more. >> Yeah. There you go. So weddings you have one day, two day, three day. We've been

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one to four one days. >> Two days, three 3 days, 2 three. So I mean each year you're only at that was 7 10

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8 weddings total. Uh, birthday showers, grad parties, 20, 23, 25, 33, 21 classes. That's me. Senior senior fitness over there. Yoga

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classes, things like that. Um, holiday company parties. Um, last year we had 20 nonprofits. Monday through Thursday, you're at 75, 95, 96, 98, 9, 79 events. And then you

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can see where we maybe switched it. We went from 23 weekends to 4, 6, 5, and two. And then time for play, those are weekdays. [clears throat] So the biggest

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you're at your nonprofits are up here around 80 days and your holiday parties, grad parties, tier 2 stuff, you're at about 40ish days, 30 30 40. And then weddings,

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you're at 8 to 10 events. >> And if someone had a wedding under 99, that's still counted under. Mhm. And then on the bottom you can see revenue

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um 18 19 17 21 16. Does that help? Is that what you're looking for? >> Yeah. Yeah, the 16 probably reflects that there was less weddings last year.

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>> Well, if you look, it's more birthday parties in 25. 10 more birthday parties in 25. And how many more birthday How many weddings? >> Two more. >> Two more weddings. >> Three. Three more. >> Numbers are fairly similar.

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Holiday company parties. more holiday company parties in 2025 than in 2024. And >> that might be what other events too that don't really fall under they don't pay anything. So, I would say like when you're looking

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at kind of how I've lumped the tier two, there's a lot more birthday parties, baby showers, bridal showers, grad parties than there are like >> Yeah. >> company events. >> Yeah. >> Was one of the changes that the

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nonprofits would move to tier two >> if they had a weekend rental? Oh, so the weekday ones would remain no charge. >> The weekday ones would remain no charge. >> Okay. >> But that's how many weekday events there are. >> Most of them don't require a whole lot

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from staff. Okay. >> There's no setup. There's no take down. It's >> very minimal. >> Are they taking reservations from other people like They're paying people >> during the week. Not usually. >> Oh, okay. >> I mean, every once in a while there's

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different random things. There's always random things. Just nothing too consistent during the weekday. >> Mhm. I don't know. >> Do you need a motion on this or just >> No. Okay.

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>> I'll re update it with some of this if you guys Sounds like we're good maybe on the tier three pricing and quantifying like a person count. Um but yeah, I guess the debate is 50 55 60.

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>> Think I would just compare it to what you see. you know, you know, what are birthday parties, what are showers, what are, >> you know, >> yeah, it's really not going to increase revenue that much. >> It's not. >> So, it's Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what value it has.

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>> Seems like you need to have more events than less events, right? >> You really need more weddings. The big >> weddings. You need the money. Yeah. The money's in the weddings. [laughter] >> Like to me, if you want to increase revenue, you you got to go get the weddings and advertise for it. >> Yeah. and show off the new space. And >> yeah,

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>> wedding maybe the city could develop like a wedding package like that shows them like, hey, we got food, we got alcohol, >> we did do advertising and like weddings north and things like that. And the price on that has gone up

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>> significantly. So that's almost uh it's over 700 for the half page ad. And like I thought our niece who has the naughty pine bakery bring you know she'd be okay with having a

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flyer in there but she said by the time they come to me for the cake you already have >> wedding you know designers that do weddings yeah by the time they have but they they'll let the word out

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one of them has a couple years people something. >> Is there something on the on the website about it? >> There's a community center page. >> There is. >> Yeah. Um, so that's where I put that video to help. Nice. >> There's a lot of people that rent from out of state for family reunions and stuff like that that have never been

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here. >> Yeah. >> Um, but then Yeah. So, there's that. Um, and then we've had different free things on different wedding app. >> Yeah. >> Not like the not cuz that's really expensive, too. Um, but there's different advertising avenues that we've

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kind of gone through over the years and then obviously local things like if caterers know most, you know, know about us or if you know the bridal shops know about us, the bakeries like >> but most there's a lot of people that like yeah I went to an event here like four years ago. I knew somebody that had

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a Brad party or we had a family reunion or that's a lot of where people know of it. Does she advertise >> if we were a chamber member to then? Yeah. I mean, not that we're not, but

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>> I I don't want to drag this discussion out more, but I mean, I coming from a business, having owned a business, I I'm okay with the city being passive in in renting this. You know, people come to the city and know that it's

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there. I'm okay with that. I think when we start actively advertising then to me we're competing with with the private venues people that actually have this for a business. So that's where kind of I draw the line. I you know so

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I'm okay having this and I'm okay I think we need to have enough of a a fee to recognize that there's a cost there but um I don't know that I want to go out and advertise actively personally. That's where I'm at. You know, >> it's tough. On one hand, you're losing

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money and the other hand, it's like you don't want to out compete local businesses. >> Well, but I don't think you ever I guess what I'm saying is you're never going to be able to rent this enough to to pay for the facility. So, it's more to me a

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community center is more of a a benefit to the hopefully that we're using it for residents, but I realize that we're not all people that are residents are using it, right? There's people outside the city. Correct. There's no >> That was one of the things on your spreadsheet of who has resident

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non-resident rates >> and I think your attorney probably told you you can't make that distinction. Correct. >> Uh we haven't gone through the attorney review yet. >> No, but I mean have you had that discussion in the past? Can you make that distinction? Because I I was

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understanding that you could not. >> Oh, um I'm not sure. the contracts that we got to have those options of resident not resident with Niswah it's very you know a Niswah address doesn't mean you're a Niswah resident

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>> exactly >> which makes it very hard from like a bookkeeping standpoint how do you verify and explain to people that they're not actually in Nisah >> their postal address says Niswah >> show me your tax return right or

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something >> so just how much time do we want to spend, you know? >> Yeah. >> Was kind of one of the things we're like, yeah, okay, makes sense. Um, >> for certain reasons and not for others if it's allowable or not, I don't know,

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but I have seen it. Okay. Okay. Well, I will um unless there's further discussion, I'll play with it and come up with some incorporate some of these prices and again if you have any bright ideas um

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holler good. Okay. Um our meeting in July would be July 9th. So, moving it back a week because we don't want to be here on the second.

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[laughter] >> Um, so we'll we'll go from there. Um, if there's something that I really need from you guys, we'll have the meeting, but if for some reason if we can just hold off until the uh community engagement, I'll let you guys know

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either way. >> Perfect. >> So that way it's not twice a month. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Uh, last plug for filling out the surveys for the pedestrian plans.

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Go do that. Tell a neighbor. Um, but otherwise, that's all I have. And we, if nobody has anything else, we can do a motion to adjurnn. >> I'll motion to adjurnn. >> Second.

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>> Awesome. Thank you.