Yep. It is Thursday, April 2nd, 2026. Uh, I am calling the Park and Recck Advisory Commission to order. 5:00 PM. I'm looking for an approval of the agenda. >> I'll make a motion to approve the agenda. >> A second.
>> Approval by Paul. >> All in favor? Second by Alyssa. All in favor? >> I. >> Okay. Next. Approval of the March 5th, 2026 minutes.
>> Move for approval. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Approval by Bruce, second by Paul. >> All right. We have open forum. Nobody. Okay. So, we'll go to the department
report. >> Awesome. >> Take it away. >> Um, thank you. We um just a housekeeping item, we are using AI to help us with minutes. So, I will be trying to reiterate who is speaking and calling motions. So, that can be captured um in
our recordings. So, that is kind of a new technology that's been super helpful. Um department reports. Um we began the updates at the community center on Tuesday. So that is well underway. Um getting that going and
they've pretty much got it all demoed at this point and um going forward with that. Otherwise, uh, as soon as, um, it stops snowing, we can get on with, uh, getting fields ready for baseball, for
soccer, docks, um, pickle ball, all the things, getting all that ready here. So, that will quickly be on our list in next week or two. >> What's just out of curiosity, what's the timeline on the community center?
>> Um, it is scheduled to be done April 22nd. So, it's about a 3-w week window to get >> It's pretty quick. >> The Yeah, they're racing in between things and there might be some lingering things, but to get it mostly put back together for an event on the 23rd.
>> Nice. >> Um, yeah. So, we'll be uh as soon as Mother Nature allows, we will be getting out there getting the fields and all of our spring items complete. Um, and then soccer starts here in April. We had a
very very large turnout for soccer and we'll actually be making two fields for each age group which is getting a little tricky with the field and baseball but we're looks like it's going to work out for everybody to get both living in
harmony. Um so yeah, we got that and then T-ball and baseball registration is still open for a couple more weeks. Um so yeah, we got a lot of activities coming up. >> Quick comment on that. Um I know well I don't know what attempt was actually
made but the the two fields that are behind the elementary there I know at one point in time Brainer district was not open to partnering with the city to have those be shared facilities new ad city or new administrator or
superintendent. I'd be curious well one I'd be curious if the city was open to it. Two, I'd be curious if the school district would be maybe open to it. >> I just look at that space. It doesn't get used. I think it gets used a little bit for recess
>> or maybe for gym class. >> Yeah. >> But two fields that are being not maintained. Um and it could be really valuable space. >> Yeah. >> For both the city and the school. >> Yeah. Thanks. That's a good reminder cuz I quite often forget that those are
there and we can always explore a partnership to see if that works. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah, that's a very good reminder. Um, and >> u back behind the elementary there. >> Oh, >> there's like two old baseball fields
that haven't been touched in 20 years. And I we go to the playground all the time and I sit and stare on it. I'm going, nobody's using these fields and they're going to waste and you know, it would be a great partnership. I would think you could probably fit a soccer field in the middle.
>> Yeah. >> And then utilize two baseball fields. >> Yeah, that's a good reminder as I >> Yeah. >> is different schools and different groups have needs and they use our they rent our fields and then trying to piece in our programs and just
weave it all together. So, it's a good reminder cuz I almost always forget that they're there um to discuss using them. So, yeah. So, yeah, it's uh the next three months on the fields till about the end of June are pretty much every
night there's an activity out there. So, um, looking at the G Lake Trail in Niswah Lake Park, at the March city council meeting, Pratt excavated and it was approved to do the work uh for the
trail in the bathroom at Niswah Lake Park. And so, they're completing their contract documents so we can get that uh pre-construction meeting scheduled and get them going. So that work plus finalizing any work on the G Lake Trail
needs to be completed by the end of June. So we will quickly be on the clock to finish those things. Um there was some damage to the trail from the winter that's going to have to be corrected. So that along with the fencing that we
knew had to be completed or two of the big things on the main trail portion. And then as far as I can tell, everything is on schedule for the bathroom delivery. Um, and then I will also be working on
the reimbursement for those for that grant. So, we've had one reimbursement and I will be working here on the second one before a final round. I >> I had a question on with the trail, you know, where we're we're showing where that damage is. Sinkhole.
>> Yeah. Do you know if irrigation was ever put in? >> Um, I know they were looking for the lines cuz they put sleeves underneath. Oh, >> okay. >> But I don't know if the irrigation was completed or not >> cuz I wonder if that might be in it,
too. But they'll find out. >> Yes, they put sleeves in before paving. Cool. That's what I got on department report. Does anyone else have any questions? Otherwise, we can move on to old
business. Um, our standing topic here, um, is the playground design. So, after our last meeting, um, we did get the third revision of the playground design.
That information did go to city council and that is what was put in the grant. Um, and so we didn't have the opportunity to talk about it. My my thought here is that we can discuss it if our subcommittee needs
to get together to fine-tune that feedback. Um, we can get that to flagship and they'll have some more time. Um, they've really been under a tight time constraint to get these designs flipped around for the grant. Um, so my thought is that they could
have the next month and a half to work on their design and hopefully we could have another design um before we find out if we've received the grant or not. Um, so that's kind of where my mind went on having this discussion here tonight
to allow them time for another revision. Um, and so I did give you guys a little bit of a handout here. These are snippets of the language from the grant and where I outlined
what we're looking for in the playground design. So like kind of words that I use. So I wanted to share that with you guys as we review the design to see how well we're achieving these goals, where we can make improvements, what kind of things we're looking for. Um so you can
see some of the highlighted words there with quiet and creative play. Um roof structures. When I went back through this design, there's actually only one tower that has a roof on it. And I know shade has been a topic of discussion, something that's super important, and
how do we want to achieve that goal? Um, talking about just different play panels, combining education, sensory play, varying textures, sounds, colors, um, for the neurodeiverse users.
um collaborative place, social interaction, accessibility, um sight lines, intergenerational, a lot of those words were all used within the grant. And so wanted to bring that up as we look at the playground and see how
well and where we're achieving those things and where we need to kind of make those um adjustments. So with that, I am if you guys don't have questions, opening it up to discussion
and commentary on the um specifics of the design, what we like, what we'd like to see different. Um I guess I will add two more things. This design expanded the budget to 750,000
as well as expanded the footprint slightly. So within the grant, I did leave the playground portion of the budget at 740,000 with the thought that we'd maybe still be able to bring it down a little but
have some of that wiggle room. Um, when I spoke with the DNR in terms of they only do full awards. They do not do a partial award. So, it's all or nothing. Um, and then I said if we are to reduce our budget because this
is we don't know the actual cost of concrete and everything, right? So, there's a little bit of wiggle room and it's much like the Go Lake Trail grant where if you're way off from your grant, they're going to ask you to like add to your scope. >> True.
>> So, that's kind of where I'm at on this one. There's things like we don't have benches included. We don't have accessible picnic tables. all things that are on our >> general list. Um, so just a little update on that one. This design was over
our original budget. I left it in the grant for just some room, some flexibility knowing that there's maybe other things. >> Um, I guess I can start with my opinion. So overall, I feel like this is maybe an
improvement from the last design that we received and granted they have been under timeline constraints. I still and just talking with Amber before I mean I still don't really feel like we've been heard or
they've captured really what our vision has been. Um which is unfortunate because like I just Yeah. And not that there's necessarily anything wrong with this playground, it's just not where we were envisioning
it to be at this point in time. However, it does sound like we can make some changes and still we now have a little bit more time to work with flagship and um hopefully work with landscape structures and maybe their custom design team and and get this narrowed in. But I
just feel like a lot of items that we either asked for, we didn't get or specifically asked not to be put in there, I still see in there. Um, so I'm just a little disappointed um in flagship
this time, but still hopeful we can get there. I just I'm I just hope that we're allowed to get enough change in there and, you know, and still be on good terms with the DNR.
That would be my only concern. >> Yeah. within the grant they ask um one about accessibility but two within the budget we put how many play components in the square footage of porn in place to engineered wood fiber so I
think those are some of the benchmarks to try and stay within a >> sure 5% or so of >> um and so as long as it seems comparable I think there's opportunity um it's not a complete, you
know, bait and switch kind of thing. >> Mhm. And I do think like now that we've submitted it and now we hopefully will have a little bit more time, we can dig a little bit deeper into some of the programming elements within the park. you know, we had
brought up like uh search and find that are within some of the custom elements and signage and um because it is inclusive adding some of those language pieces to the playground and um so I think a lot of those elements can be
brought out within this playground too because there's a lot of different little programming items that you can just incorporate that really doesn't add all that much cost but you can be creative and just within. But then there are some bigger elements that you know I
for sure want to change. Just like you know that sway fund, it's like a $25,000 piece and we specifically asked for it twice to not be to not be in there and there it is. And so it's kind of like um yeah,
>> my biggest takeaways were shade obviously and then you know any place to sit down. Um we I really don't see a lot. And we also talked about like having not only having benches on the outside but also having elements that might be play area that you know parents
could sit on or kids could sit on or um so I think that those are kind of the pieces that missing from the original. And then I think also just the word destination. I always keep that word destination and you know not that again not that this is a bad playground but I
don't know if this speaks destination to me and I think that that's been kind of the core of the word. Um, so >> yeah, and I know Dan was like very adamant about making this unique to Niswah, you know, adding
elements like >> yeah, >> the turtles or we talked about all the lily pads or, you know, maybe a a boat of some sort with a dock or, you know, unique to Nisa and I just so far we just haven't gotten that out of Flagship is
like this is this is Niswah's playground. >> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, >> did you ever show them that fancy drawing you had at the beginning of February? >> Well, and maybe that's the reason we keep getting this back. >> Maybe it's my fault.
>> I I thought that a very good drawing that explained what we were looking for. >> Oh, so yeah. I mean, I'm still optimistic. We still have time now and I'm just glad like we were able to submit to the for the grant.
hope, you know, hoping that that goes well and in our favor and we can still make appropriate changes to it. It's just I was hoping to be further along. >> Yeah. I'll say to comment on the seating. Um what I told the engineers,
we did allocate enough um concrete material to accommodate like five pads outside, but I'm like until we get the design, we can't pick where to put the pads. So within the budget, we did
account for five 5x10 concrete pads. Okay. Okay. >> So, and my thought on that one is there's extra concrete so you can park your stroller, you can park a wheelchair, and it's all in a line, not blocking the path. >> Okay. >> So, that the outside seating, we have
materials in the budget. We'll have to work that into the design. Um, but yeah, there's sight lines, sightelines, sight lines. I got a ton of comments on sightelines through the master plan. Um, and that's always been something that's been in my mind of where can people sit to see. >> Yeah.
Yeah. >> And then also like >> and then on those concrete portions would you would you incorporate shade over them or is that >> you certainly could that was not put in the budget but like say if for some reason we can adjust the scope because
there's more room that can be one okay >> one way um maybe it's somebody wants a donation yeah right um I think there's certainly opportunity >> to incorporate that. >> Okay. >> As as Flagship, have they ever had
somebody actually come up to the city physically? >> Well, yeah, all the time. >> Really? >> And they I mean they offer tours and you can go and meet landscape structures to the the manufacturer because that's in Delo. Um so that could be an option too,
just going down there. And >> yeah, >> I mean I would love I would love to get landscape structures on the phone as well. Flagship wouldn't like that, but I'm like, can we get their custom designer involved, too? Because it ultimately goes to Landscape Structures. Flagship
will do a design and then they submit everything to landscape structures. Their design team puts their final touch on it. And so that's why I'm like maybe that's why I'm seeing a sway fund again because Flagship put on their boat
>> and landscape structures is like oh inclusive boat plug in a sway fun. >> Yeah. >> Um so it would be nice to Yeah. I guess that's what I'm getting at is sometimes, you know, with, you know, communication
on the phone or Zoom or whatever, but to get somebody physically in the room and sit down and say, >> you know, you're not really addressing our issues, >> would that be helpful? >> And I know the second meeting we tried to do that a little bit more. We we
brought in or we had the designer from Flagship plus the salesman on the phone, not just the salesman. Um, >> yeah, it hasn't worked out >> a little bit better, but it's >> it hasn't worked out this winter to get the sales rep here in person, but they
do drive through Nisa. They have stopped here. Um, I have not walked the park with them directly. Not that our existing structure needs to be seen, but um, they are here and they are available to be here.
It just hasn't worked out the two times we've tried this winter. Yeah, but it wouldn't be nice for them to also see the natural elements that park contains because I think that that also will filter back to how the park design feels. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Have them open it during the summer. It's nice and pretty. >> So, we feel like there's room for improvement on shade. um the structures, the towers that were put in here, you can see that only the
two to five play area now has a roof on it. Um swapping out the other towers, there is no longer roofs on them. And then um yeah, as Paul talked about finding ways to do educational
programming, that's one of the questions in the grant. Play panels specifically, maybe it is hide-and-seek. talked about how some of them are nature-based um educational play panels. Um and then to me a big thing is they in
the grant they want to see more than just um meeting like ADA meeting the physical and mobility um but how does it reach beyond that and so when we look at this um I think we've
really improved the physical components with the port in place and the um sidewalk around it. What I'm wondering from you guys, what are you seeing that meets the needs for intergenerational,
social, and um neurodeiverse or through any of the designs? Was there anything that we were like, I love that, bring it back. Um, >> I will say that the bridge is fun. You know, as a mom who plays on playgrounds that
>> Yeah, that type or actually the front bridge that type of because what exists now in our current park, I mean, we would play right on the bridge, running up. It's a big tag game. So, it's kind of nice to have like an entrance and an exit where they can go keeping running
around. Um, so I will say that I think that that's a nice feature to actually bring parents onto the >> Well, and we all know the two to 5-year-old doesn't stay on a 2 to 5-year-old playground, which is one of the best >> Yeah. >> things about our playground is the 2 to 5year-old goes on the 5 to 12 year old
playground. >> Yeah. >> And parents aren't freaking out. Um, also like the placement of this is right through the port in place. So now you lose that mobility access through there because it
blocks it. So it's nice that it's really low to the ground for all people, >> but then it blocks the pathway through. But yeah, it's all about uh how you play the games on the playground. I also feel like um monkey
bars like just going from our playground to the playground at Peekquat. My kids are too short. They can't use the ones at Peekquat unless I lift them up which sometimes I don't want to do be honest. So these look kind of high.
>> Got to protect the shoulders. Um, yeah, I think about that too, like as and I've heard other comments on that where there's um a monkey bar on the 2 to 5year-old playground, which is great for the young little shavers, but when you're like >> the smaller five, six, seveny olds and
you can't reach the big ones. >> Yeah. >> Like what's that in the in between height or can you like put more layers for them to stand? Yeah. On on the poles. Um I have heard that from other people as well. Outside of like the big net structure, I
do think the circulation is pretty good on here. Like there are uh ways to get around most, you know, circulate and get around um on this playground. again if they could have maybe connected. I mean, in our plan, we had like the the big tower
and then called the smaller mediumsiz tower connected just for that full circulation. Um, they've almost captured it here. Did you have shade here? Like is that where you were hoping for shade or where
like where do you see shade that could >> well >> or not? >> We didn't have a ton of shade on there. I Okay, >> in these towers we maybe envision more like these on the larger structures or at least one of them. Shade is a hard
one because I mean current well currently there's more trees and which may have to come down but outside of the two what are they little maples there's really no shade on there right now. >> Yeah.
>> Um and shade costs a lot of money. >> Yeah. >> And you get a winter like three winters ago where it's record snow and shade comes down. But I think Chad's important too. I know
long term now we don't know what's going to happen with hockey, but we're kind of planning for a structure where the current uh warming house as a potential pavilion for some shade wouldn't provide it on the playground, but to get a
>> for yeah others, right? >> But yeah, shade is a hard one. >> What sort of is it like fabric shade or is it hard hard shade? If you really wanted to get a large portion of the playground covered, you'd have to go with like fabric. >> Okay. And that's what doesn't hold up to snow.
>> Yeah. I mean, you could take it down. I mean, it's it's you can take it down. It's just the process. >> Oh, >> yeah. Cross legs goes up and down. >> Retract or just Yeah. >> But yeah, you Yeah. Usually you'd see a fabric shade over a PL like if you go to
Arizona, it's all fabric shades, flag like triangle shapes. um typically. But >> yeah, >> on the outside you could certainly have a structure. >> Yeah. Okay. >> We just Yeah, we live in a area that is
snow x amount of the year and then not sunny a good chunk of the year too. So it's like how much money do you put into shade? Even though I agree that shade is very important on a playground, right? >> Or at least an area to go to shade.
I'm so I'm confused because can't we do some trees? Are we are we taking trees out so we don't have any shade around the outer edges of the playground? >> There are existing mature trees that will have to be removed for the relocation. There is also an allowance
in the budget for landscaping and replanting. Um but obviously that takes time for full maturity. >> Sure. But I mean there would be still be a plan to have trees eventually >> within the parkade the location.
>> To your point, I don't know if we've thought about this too, but how does the playground play when there is snow on the playground? Like is it are we able to still play on it? Um you know, do you get caught in snow? Do you I mean the netting, I suppose, is really good to have because all those structures are
still playable, you know, and when it's really wet. I mean, because we're at the playground during the winter months as well. Um, put snow pants on, you ride down this this slides and fall into the snow. But I guess that's something else
we should kind of look at, right? Because like that boat, that $25,000 boat structure, that's not even going to be able to use be used in the winter, right? >> I see where I've seen them other places, um, it's quite often a picnic spot filled with French fries and ketchup.
Yeah, there's a lot of table in the middle. Um, yeah. No, that's a good point. Um, things that I think we've heard like so far like visually like color scheme, nobody's I've haven't heard any feedback
on like the blues and the greens. Um, I think generally there's been support of that and we've had varying shades of neon green to like evergreen greens. Um, so I haven't heard anything on that general feedback. Um,
but yeah, a lot always get shade, always get visibility. Um, I've heard the monkey bar comment. I think people generally like having the incorporation of like the rock nature >> theme and feature. So I think the feedback I've heard from the community,
they're still in like support of those types of things. Um, like I said, this design takes up a little bit more space, and that was something we knew could be a thing with adding mounds. Um, cuz they need more room.
>> How much how much did they increase the space? Do you know? >> Um, I want to say that what how I could tell is well, the corners are squared on the northern side. Um, but the linear feet for the sidewalk went from like 340
or 350 to 390. >> A decent amount. >> So, it it just squared off the north side for the most part. But I would have to go back through the designs to really figure it out.
>> Which that would be towards the trees or that would be towards >> Yes, on the pickle ball side. >> Pickle ball side. Okay. They did add this um turtle racing play panel. It's a mockup. Um
but yeah, I think there's uh you know swings. There's one little kid bucket swing. Um four belt swings. Two different size molded seats. So, there's like a 5 to 12y old and a two to five. Um, and then they have this kind of
interesting hammock type buddy swing. Um, >> is it a twoerson swing or no? >> Yes. >> Those are fun. >> Yeah. So, it's kind of different than that round saucer oodle swing. It's, you know, like hammock style but forward and
back. Um, and then it looks like on all the mounds they have these like climb up, rope, grab bar type things. Um, and then this front mound is just that roller slide. Um, which is a pretty
low pitch slide in these designs. >> All the slides up a mound or is there a slide that's not? I mean, I don't know if that makes a difference. Um, it looks like this slide here in the center, but it's off of two nets like a two climber
two climbers. Two climber nets. >> Um, this slide and this slide. But you get to it by like this net ramp. >> Okay. >> And this climbing. So the the plan here is to go back to the design company and try to get some
changes if when we do that or after we do that and I realized that the attendance at the last public meeting maybe wasn't great but >> would we try to have another public meeting to get some feedback from folks on our final
quote final design? >> Yeah, I think there's definitely opportunity to have another one. Um I don't think it's going to work. We talked about going to the school as well, and I don't think that would work for this school year, but that would allow us the opportunity to find out if we got the grant,
make whatever another round of revisions and then by fall um to go to the school or if we wanted to have one over the summer season um to capture that residential or the seasonal population. I think there might be an opportunity um August to September
>> once we have maybe another round or possibly two rounds of revisions. Um >> if we if we don't get the grant, then we're >> we're not going to do that. >> Then we have some more discussions to have. >> No. >> Okay. Well, I think it would be good to
have some at least an attempted one more public meeting if we do get the grant. >> Yeah. Um, I think that's always good to get some feedback. >> Certainly, >> it might be good too to a sign up of the current park, you know, of of the of the
plan um so people that are out there using it can can see it and maybe I don't know if uh we're able to do an online survey. Uh I I know just like getting people or at least myself to come to like an evening meeting is about impossible. Um, but if but if there was
a sign at the park with a QR code and I could do it, you know, while the kids were playing, um, just I think you'd get a lot more feedback probably if it was if there was an online platform. >> Yeah, the sign out there has not been refreshed in 3 years where it shows the
overall park plan. Um, so it'd be very interesting to see if we get a design back or some sort of visual representation that I could print and put on a sandwich board out there with a QR code. Um, once we're at a place that
or we can just do a general thing. Um, but sometimes it's hard to respond if you don't have a picture to respond to. >> I I think that's a good idea, Steve. Yeah. Then with a like an online survey, you can you can ask pointed questions like the questions you want answers to. Um and not just what do you think
because that just really doesn't add value. Um but you know like >> you know just just kind of tease out the the things you want to know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, otherwise I would agree with what they've already said and yeah, my biggest thing would just add a lot more
benches for sitting um shaded areas and uh more yeah more connected. Uh, I think it's always fun to run from structure to structure, >> you know, do loops or, you know, not touch the ground. >> Um, and yeah,
>> maybe more slides, but there's always you can use slides in the winter, right, all the time. And >> yeah, >> um, you know, I've seen like race slides or or, you know, like that big tower only has one slide on it. Um, it seems like you could throw another one off the
side or a middle one or there's more options. >> Yeah, I'm not really sure how that curly Q thing is meant to be used. If it's supposed to help you climb up or if you're supposed to twirl yourself down it. I'm not really sure. I don't
know if I've seen one of those, but I imagine it being used like that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I know for for our daughter, she likes to work her way up from like the high the low slides to the high slides, you know? So, having some different elevations in one area where she can
like keep climbing up and start at the low one and then work all work her way up to the high one. >> Yeah. My expert consultant said yes, get all of it, >> but she said that for every design. >> Get all of it. >> Get all of it.
>> I like it. >> Can't wait to play on it this summer. Yeah, that's not this summer. Well, yeah. Otherwise, incorporating more Niswah themed because it looks just generic right now. Um, so if you want to make it feel like Niswah's premier park,
um, it's got to have something tied back to the city or the local feel. >> Um, really pointed question here for you guys. Do you think one bucket swing is adequate or do we need to look at adding one of those T frame two bucket swings?
I see a lot of parents having >> Yeah. >> You know, you know, you go there with a friend playdate and the two kids are there and now two kids can't swing next to each other. That's kind of one of my concerns is not enough. >> Yeah. I >> buckets.
>> I have two kids in bucket seats and we're fighting for them when we get there. >> I mean, swings in general are a fight at the park and like you just can't put enough in >> and especially because the Nisa Elementary doesn't have a single bucket. >> No. Uh, so it would be nice to get more
than just one year. >> Okay. >> Yeah, because I think a lot of times when they're younger, too, you're meeting somebody else with probably a similar age child. >> I would say the bucket swings are used more than the belt swings at City Park
here. And I I haven't taken a playground safety class, but I think you can't put a belt and a bucket in the same bay. I think they have to be in different bays. >> Can't remember either.
>> Cool. Um, so I think there's some sting safety standards on some of that. So, I'm just wondering if maybe there's somewhere I don't know what we'd want to remove to put in another bucket swing or if cuz I I think my thought would be
is they'd be next to each other, not one on each end of >> I think one of the I mean, hate to say it because it's a all-inclusive playground, but one of the molded seats. I don't know if we need two in there. >> Two different age groups.
>> Yeah. Given I mean, I hate to take one out for an age group. I'm just given how often this used, >> especially if we had, you know, with the other unique swing there at the end. Um, you still have a molded seat, you'd have
a a twoerson swing. Yeah, I know. At one point I thought it made more sense to put the bucket swings closer to the 2 to 5year-old playground. But >> I was wondering too >> I don't know if >> but then you might >> can see the logic of if you have two
different age groups that then now >> you're pushing and you're closer to the older kids. So I can see it both ways. >> Yeah. >> Or who do you want closer to the parking lot? Or I could totally be overthinking it. >> No, I don't think you are.
>> I'm known to do that. >> It's good to have two of everything no matter what. I mean, maybe not the molded seat, but I think with the swings, you know, you got just to be on the safe side. I almost feel like this end could be all
but all uh baby swings. >> Um, okay. So things I'm hearing um maybe I think if we wanted shade on those towers the towers might have to change. I don't know if there's um a roof
compatible with those particular structures. >> The one the net one there's not >> I don't think there is but the other one might be possible the middle one. Um, looking at adding a bucket seat, either
adding one or possibly removing a molded bucket seat. Um, does anyone else have a strong opinion on the Sway Fun Glider thing? Um, that's about the same price as that
covered merry we go round. Um, maybe not the same price. This one might be a little bit less, but those are two very inclusive specific designs. >> Um, if we liked one or the other or
>> invest our money in a different way. >> Yeah, I think I like the other one better. But the only advantage is to the Swayon. It doesn't take up a lot of um >> footprint >> footprint from a fall protection that Maron does. >> It's almost it has to be standalone and
it does take up a significant amount of space. But >> this has two merrygorounds in it. You got this front one here and then this other rope one in the back. So you got a bigger bigger slower and a faster
compact option. you get rid of one of those the say let's just say the faster could would you have space and money for more swings or what do you think is used most often is it the swings I guess I don't even I
don't know anecdotally what >> in the I feel like in our current design it's the swings is that because the structure itself is you know is not extremely exciting or is
that just People really like swings. >> Well, what happens usually there with the grandkids, they don't even touch the swings. It's hard to >> Oh, really? >> And and the other kids, like we're there usually early in the morning and the kids are all running down the platform, climbing up and things like that. You
kids use the far swing. >> Um, but that's just my experience. Doesn't make a difference. >> I I would second that. I I >> when I'm there with my grandkids, we're not using the swings. They're using >> more slides and and stuff that you can
climb on like the spider stuff and >> anything you can jump and slide and climb. >> Yeah. I don't see much from the swings. >> I feel like what I see quite often is that not that it's not being used how it's
intended to be used, but it's always in a way of like a game. We're playing tag. It's lava. It's it's a racetrack. It's there's a game being played on things and like the dome's the safe zone and it's hide and seek. So I see like people
using using everything maybe not exactly how it's intended, >> but like they use it in game >> format. So it's that social component. It's that active component. Um,
but then when they get bored with it, they get creative and now it starts you're climbing on top of the slides and you're sitting on top of the roof and you're flipping swings up and you know. >> So yeah, I mean in the summer you do see the swings like you see a full like you come out here on like a T-ball or soccer
night and everything is in use because there's so many people. So whether it's because they want to or because that's what's open. >> What's interesting, I know there's been studies that have been done that some of
the more basic standard playgrounds are actually have more injuries because kids get bored and what do they do when they get bored? They climb up the slide. They sl they, you know, they go on top of the roof. They, you know, they always will search for the most challenging what's
going to challenge them. And if you give them a safe, boring playground, they're going to find ways to make it dangerous versus a challenging playground, they're challenged and so they're not going to seek out the things that are going to be necessarily dangerous for them. And so
it's statistically like a safe, boring playground sees more injuries. No main playground has been injured. But no. Yeah. >> Are we liking the combination of wood
chips poured in place in the mounds? Like this is the first we've seen conceptually of that. >> I think the percentages are good from what I can see. Um >> it was about 5,000 to 3,000. >> Yeah. And I don't mind colors. I would
>> I I still think there could be some work in how the structure and the mounds play off of one another and but from like a percentage I I kind of like what I see as far as
how much I always like my whole big thing with the mounds is the mounds themselves are are play elements. Mhm. >> I don't want just a mound to be a mound.
And some of these mounds I'm kind of seen just as a mound. And I like for example the the mound with the big structure on it or the net. >> That's just a mound. >> It's just a mound and there's not a lot
of like integration into the actual play of it. I mean, it kind of acts as an island and like you see this front net going from one mound to the other and that's kind of some of the elements that I envision, but I want there to be a reason for that mound, not just a mound
there because I just feel like if we're going to have port in place and you can use topography and and design that into the structure, you're going to get a lot of value for that versus just sticking mounds in there and calling it a day.
Like then I don't think we need mounds. >> Yeah, that was going to be my next question is if the mounds are adding play value. >> Yeah, because you could get away with the mound and just do >> a green color and save a lot of money if
they're not adding >> playability. Um, now kids are going to be able I mean they do add some value like just and kids are gonna have fun going up and down them and in the winter they can slide down them and um but I do
think maybe some of them could even be designed a little bit more into the playset and like you know right now they're just round you know could they be a little bit more like natural?
I also feel like you could play off that. I don't know why the twirly thing right there is bothers me, but I feel like you could play it off >> that's in the water. >> It really bugs me. I'm like, I want rocks there or something like could you play off the mound and then jump onto the rocks or, you know, have something that feels like
>> I don't know. And that that that would work better that >> Yeah. It just doesn't make sense to me. >> Boulders come out and then you know either come straight to the cont. >> Yeah. One of the things I said is that they can't have like the rocks boulders
under a place structure. But like when we talked about the lily pads with that hopping ninja type >> course >> um like that didn't make it into this design. >> Yeah. and >> the agility component. >> Yeah, >> that would make more sense. And then
then you'd have that where the mound instead of just being a mound, that's where they start their >> that's frog experience. >> Yeah. What kind of what was portrayed to them was this was supposed to be like almost like you're going through like
the chain and like these are different islands and there's like rip wrap/boulders and there's lily pads and like you're kind of making your way through, >> you know, and um so that was kind of the idea with these like different mounds
and um and I get that they're restricted as far as fall protection, but you know, I still don't feel like >> but I think Bruce's idea of having them come up with the designers so that can be spoken to him because a lot of stuff does get lost in conversation
>> but they have had the designers been up here once haven't they >> well no the sales rep drives through and then we had a zoom call with the sales rep and the designer >> and again it was a flagship designer and
she does a lot of the work but then they ultimately submit it to landscape structures. >> Their design team is makes the final decisions. >> They're the manufacturers. >> Yeah. >> But I think as long as it wouldn't get lost in translation, they would actually
be a human presence here. >> Yeah. Either here or down there. >> This is what we're looking at. I bring in the drawing that beautiful. >> Where do you think Microsoft started on some things with and they're on that
>> so that they can actually visualize that. >> We'll work with it and come back to the world and know >> Yeah. >> Well, and kind of what we've said too, it's like I I wish there's been more communication and hey, no, we can't do
this, so this is what we'll do. It's been no communication and then here's the plan and it's like >> how did we get how did we get here? >> Yeah. >> You know. >> Yeah. >> Um if they were to tell me no you can't
do that be oh that makes sense. Thanks for letting me know we can now do this. It's like we're just given a plan and some of it's just time restricted. I mean we've given them unfortunately two weeks which two to three weeks which landscape structures I know requires two
weeks. So that's giving flagship a week and so I get it. Um but I just wish like a quick email saying hey sorry we can't do this idea. I know that was a big priority of your guys is because of this so we're going this direction. >> Yeah. In the first direction we gave
them too there wasn't a whole lot of height. wanted to stay away from height and now kind of talking through some of it like asking them for some height to be incorporated and um so a little bit is
just the evolution of it and getting the designs and something to respond to and what we like in each one and we don't like and trying it out and you know I I asked them to move the swings back to the other side because it felt like it was a wall between the
shelter and the playground. around. So sometimes it's a little trial and error and move it around to see what works. And um one thing with shading I understand the big may not have a shade for that but is
there any way we can incorporate with benches that go shades over that over those? >> Yes, we just necessarily put that in the budget. So >> there may or may not be room in it and
there may be a separate project. There may be a donation needed. >> I got a whole lot of contingency plans. >> Oh, like that could be not even playground equipment because it's outside of the Yeah. >> footprint. It could be a
>> built one. >> A cool >> really some lumber. >> You get some 6x6 treated timbers and a metal roof and away you go. ala or uh you know something >> but you know I mean if someone if
someone were you know just be talking about the submax lumber like man really nice you know thing >> yeah there's definitely um until we get further in the design and fine-tune the budget while it feels like we're really
maybe close we're not Um, so there's there's still going to be more that we're going to discover and wiggling the budget up and down in certain areas. So, um, I think this has
been really good feedback for tonight. Um, do we one have any more thoughts on this? two, do you want um since Dan's not here, do we want um the subcommittee to get
together, fine-tune this, create a pitch, idea, a detailed list for Flagship, meet with Flagship, something of that nature. >> Yeah. >> Um and then get a revision going. >> I took your words and I like made a
little key, so I'll give that to you for your meeting. >> Okay. Thanks. I have a whole page of notes. um in case I didn't get it. >> The nice thing is I don't think we'll ever get charged for revisions. Um and so we can keep at this until we
all feel like we like it. >> Yeah, I think >> I guess I go ahead, Steve. >> Oh, just that your revisions are heard, you know, if like it kind of like from what what it sounds like, we're spinning our wheels a little. Like we're telling
them to do stuff and they're not doing it. you know, um it's we're not happy with the design right now. Um so just the next one should be meaningful and like you know if the team meets and just get yeah get somebody here or whatever it
takes I guess to to have have a meaningful change. >> Yeah, I'm with you. I mean somebody here other than the salesperson. I mean I think it would be important to do that. I guess the other option, I don't know if you guys as a subcommittee are willing to do that, but if if you know,
if we needed to drive down to the cities to express our concerns and show them what we're looking for, then maybe we need to do that, too. But >> and I mean at this point I don't really I wouldn't really want to but would
changing companies or equipment manufacturers at this point in time would that be an option with the grant or are we locked in with these guys given the grant? >> Um I don't know and we wouldn't know about the status of the grant until
the end of June. >> Yeah, that's the tough part. And then if we are awarded the grant, there's a contract period to finalize everything, finalize our playground design, finalize all the engineering,
um, and then it would have to be manufactured, and then all of the outside work would have to be bid. So in my mind, um, everything has to kind of be buttoned up by the end of
December. You know, well, I had the exact same thought though about the vendor. So, I don't know that the grant depends upon the vendor. It just a matter of the the design and the cost. >> I know um St. Croy Wreck, which is Burke
Play Equipment. He said if anything ever changes, just reach out. >> Yeah. I mean, again, we've gotten so far down the road, but at this point, like I'm I I wouldn't be opposed to it, especially if you know they've got a
good design team. And >> when we already when we went through the proposal part, we only picked playground companies that were a part of Sourcewell with state contract pricing. So, that's going to be the biggest kind of component of the budget in the pricing.
Um because I did write in the grant that it is, you know, what's proposed is state contract pricing. >> Yeah. >> And that's how we know it's fair and reasonable because it's already gone through the procurement solicitation process.
>> Yeah. I do I mean from personal opinion I do know it's like top quality product at the end of the day what we would get. It's just unfortunately it's just hasn't been the process that I would have thought we would be getting or this this
customer service I thought we'd be getting up until this point. >> I mean, do you guys want to see one more revision and see if we can get that meaningful advancement or would you do you think you want me to reach out to somebody else at this point? I mean, we don't know if we have the grant or not.
So that's kind of another thing in question is like what at the end of the day is our budget. >> I would think my personal opinion is reach out one more time and and see if we can get them to be more cooperative and express maybe our disappointment,
but you know, at the end of the day, you're right. There's other people we can talk to and they maybe need to be maybe that needs to be expressed to them. >> Yeah. I just I feel like isn't the world's biggest budget, but it's a big
budget. I mean, it's a very healthy budget that we're working with and we're fortunate to be working with. Even if we didn't get the grant, even if we have to shift and go back down to a $5,000 playground, that's still a big budget. And I just feel like,
not that I need them to cater solely to us because we're bringing them a playground, but I just feel like it's a, you know, it's a playground that doesn't come around every day for these companies. And so I just expected more.
>> Yeah. For reference in the budget, the work outside of the playground, which includes all the concrete and restoration and erosion controls and all that, um that work was somewhere between 210 and 230,000
was the estimate outside of the playground project or the play equipment and installation. >> Well, when you're working with businesses and they don't respond, I mean, somebody needs to give them feedback. So if this is a company that has been through Sourcewell to me then
the response might be back to Sourcewell is and I would express this to the company hey you don't giving us our good information we're going to give you feedback that's not good and maybe next time a city's looking for a playground equipment they won't be talking to you that's kind of and I'm not saying you
need to do that Amber but if you ever need uh >> you ever need somebody I used to do that for the city when the staff didn't want to tell somebody what a shitty job they were doing. I would tell them >> we didn't go through Sourcewell for this, right? >> No, no, no, no. It'd be at the purchase
process. >> It's source well approved, but we didn't go through source for this. >> We just purchased >> them to get a Yeah. >> Good size discount. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, we will go through one more
revision round and then see where we land. Um, and that should hope I'll give them the timeline that it comes back before we find out the grant. So hopefully by our June meeting would be the deadline. Um,
and then before July we would know the status of the grant. >> Yeah. Because I think it's important like I again I go back to that word destination and I think if we put plop this in Niswah people are going to be like what $700,000 for this destination? you know, like I I just do think that we
need to keep everyone who lives here, you know, happy as well, right? Like they want to see something pretty fantastic for how much money it is. I know people don't understand how much playgrounds are. They are very expensive. >> Yeah, certainly.
>> But and I do think this is a heck of a lot better than the second draft. I think there's definitely elements, you know, and different play pieces in all of them that like has made me excited. >> Yeah. >> Um but it's just putting it all together
in that final. >> I could see myself playing in this where the other one I was watching. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> so I do have a couple of things to follow up on after you're done with the discussion on the design.
>> Anyone else have other thoughts on it? Otherwise, we can move on to final discussion and comments. >> Well, so I I did meet with um Andy Schaefer and Ron Dwey and and Mayor Carneahan about fundraising and I did
ask Amber I was going to have her attend that, but that was a day unfortunately she was out of town. But uh the fundraising part of that was not encouraging. I mean I I got the impression again that um there's no active group out there. Um, I do think,
and I've expressed this several times to the mayor, that I do believe there still needs to be a fundraising component to this, whether it's to supplement what we have. You know, we we talked about some things like benches and whatever, but also, I think whatever you can raise
that the city doesn't have to put 500,000 into is a a benefit long-term to the city. But that I I found out I even said, "Well, why don't I just go and you know, I can make some applications to foundations, but I would need um city
staff to probably help with, you know, because I can't I don't type that stuff and I can't put that together." But I guess our city attorney doesn't even want any staff involved even to do the foundation work, which is which is opposite of what I had over in the
community. I was in Detroit Lakes before that city staff could do that stuff. So, I don't know if it's just a a different interpretation by city attorneys or whatever. But anyway, that was disappointing. So, we'll have to see how that develops. But the other piece of that is I did follow up and Paul, I know you had some discussion about this. It
was the last meeting or February about the timing of this. So, I I took the opportunity since all three of them were involved in the business community as to what did they think the best timing was. you know, we we talked about doing it right away in April and maybe getting it done by the 4th of July or waiting till
after the 4th of July and and starting in August, and all three of them expressed the con the interest in having it done right away next spring. So, just that was some feedback I thought I'd bring back to you. >> That's good to know.
Um, secondary to that followup, when I talked with public works, I said they're really, really busy in the springtime and August is better. >> That's and I brought up that very point. I said, you better check with public works about that because, uh, you're right. I >> there's We'll just say there's never a
good time to rip apart one of the most beloved things in our community. So, um, >> but but I I know Steve had a good suggestion, which was, you know, can public works tear some of that stuff down in the fall, which I think >> we're going to have a lot a lot of our
questions answered come June 30th, and a lot more questions will be added to the list come June 30th. So, yeah, there's this is far from the end of the story here. So, >> did you have anything else, Bruce? >> No, that was it. Thanks. Does anyone
else have any final comments? I have one. >> It's disappointing, but it um but yeah, having fundraising committee would be would be >> No. Um but yeah, it would be we've said it from
the beginning before you even came on, we got into this rut of we physically can't fundra. we need a third party to fund raise, but we weren't, you know, how do we get funds and um so it's tough. You just
need that champion to go out and fundra. And I think we have the community to do it. It's just finding the person to do it. >> What What does the third party have to be? Do they have to be a nonprofit or No, >> just be a person >> person set up a
50C3. >> No, we don't even need that. You don't even need a 51c3. just probably need a group of about I would say the ideal group is six to 10 people of which you know you're going to have a chair and then you got six to 10 people and those six to 10 people are going to go out and
find other folks and then you go call on five individuals each or five business each or whatever but you don't need a 501c3 because the money can be contributed to the city >> I suppose >> and then that's that's taxdeductible >> and we have the Niswah enrichment fund
which is through community giving. So they house some of those dollars. >> I think I said this before like they do videos that work with different so and in their group if it's larger
than 10 people what they do is the retired NHL players they have to do it hockey rings they take care of it. The uh former speed skaters speed skaters that are there they take care of all the outdoor
ranks and they have those that are very much into baseball, softball, something that has to deal with fields. That group takes care of that the person there and that's what they care. So, yeah, I was kind of surprised when I did come down here and I was told that city staff and
stuff couldn't help with any fundraising. I've seen it in other places just as um I just go by what the attorney says, but There's there's ways to reach out to
people, talk to them. Um, you know, if if if you're having coffee one day and six people show up that you know, you know, the other thing too is is is the people in those groups know the movers
and shakers as they say in the area or or having in certain people that are around, you know, and they have the ability to go to different places, you know, we need uh we're looking pen benches that have covers on them to be built out of wood. You know,
hey Lori, how you doing? There's ways to do it and know how to do it. Some people know how to do it, some people don't know how to and and they have to wrap their head around $10 million and for them, oh, $10 million, that's not to reach that.
>> They can't be, oh, that $10 million, oh my god, we'll never reach that goal. They have to have that respect. >> And we can we can educate I think under statute we just can't solicit. >> Yeah, >> real well. >> Yeah, I was gonna say you can Yeah,
educate real well. >> This is what I'm set up a cocktail hour with certain people in the area so that we can look at moving up to funation there. And I was told I couldn't. I was told by the city attorney that I couldn't do that
because I was quote unquote step. It's kind of confused on the >> Yeah. So, ultimately that's still a component that would be beneficial. Um, and there's definitely a skill out there. Um, and I think a desire from
some people, but it's I don't know how to get them all together. Um, that's not really >> for us to do. Well, well, even just that like I think you said like that 200 220,000 of the site work
I think a lot of that can be donated whether it's labor or materials um you know some of it obviously not but a good chunk of that I think could easily be fundraised for I mean gra uh class 5
concrete work demo council members contract. He has suggested that too. There's also been some other people that have suggested there's ways things can be done. >> Yeah. >> So I mean if we were to sit down with
this council member and just say that might be interested in doing this. >> Yeah. Those are the things that >> also those costs were already written into the grant >> too. So watch out too. >> Yeah. So, there's Well, like I said,
we'll have a lot of questions answered and we'll have a whole new set of questions come come June. Um, I do have one more thing that I want to uh have you guys make note of before we depart. Um, April 14th from 5 to 7:00 p.m. It's
a Tuesday night here at City Hall. There's going to be an info session um that is discussing Lakers Lane, the school entrance exit, um and looking at
the road design, the pedestrian routes, the connectivity, the traffic flow. Um, and so if that is of interest to you, if you have a child at the school, if you drive anywhere near Church Street in
Lakers Lane or Wooddale, this is something to pay attention to. Um, we have several road bonds coming up that Wooddale is included on, that Church Street is included on, um, and going out
to the next road bond in 2030, whatever it is. Um, and so want to put a plug in for that. We talked a lot about in our master plan the pedestrian, the wayfinding, the circulation of everything. Um, this ties very tightly
to school, the partnership with the school. It's a joint effort. Safe routes to school kind of a lot of different things are tying into this and there's a lot of constraints through that area. Um, so if you guys have that on your
radars, talk to anybody. Um, I believe the school is going to be pushing some communication out, but I know there's a lot of us that travel that area, um, between downtown and the park and the school. Um, and then obviously connectivity into, you know, the trail
on 18 and so on. So, um, that is April 14th, 5 to 7:00 p.m. here at city hall. >> Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, please spread the word. >> We need sidewalks so bad. >> Yeah. >> So >> dangerous is awful.
>> So yeah, that's all I have. If nobody else has any final comments, we can go for a motion to adjourn. >> I'll make that motion. >> Alissa. >> Second by Stephen. All right. Thank you all.