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okay this is the Park and Recreation advisory Commission meeting we are calling it to order it is is Thursday
February 6 2025 and it's 5:00 pm at Nissa City Hall and can we get a motion to approve the agenda for tonight I'll make a motion to approve the minutes and I will or agenda I'm sorry I'll second the agenda okay then we're going to can I get a motion to approve the January oh
all in all in favor I perect any opposed Mark motion carries motion carries can I get a motion to approve the today's or January 2nd's agenda I'll make a motion to approve the agenda yeah the minutes yep I'll second that what is that all in favor all in favor I opposed
opposed motion carries motion carried and that brings us to open Forum seeing no one um we'll move on to uh Department reports um just a quick one here uh it's funny I was typing this up and it said um working on flooding in January and again in February we're working on flooding um so we did lose a little bit of ice over those warm days so between
snow removal here we have been building ice back on the North End um also the Zamboni has been um giving us some issues we did have a technician come out um there was some damage to the vertical augur that they repaired um and then right after that there was an issue with the starter so hopefully tomorrow we'll get a new starter in and it will be operable again
but it has been down half of the week already so um working through that um Recreation wise uh winter programs will'll be wrapping up over the next few weeks that's basketball youth hockey and Adult Hockey um and then in February I send out sponsorship letters so that's for the baseball field banners team sponsors um doc sponsors and this year I'll be working on the bench
sponsorship that we kind of work through over the winter so all of that will be starting to be pushed out here through February um and then the other thing that we got going on right now is uh the gake trail um the bidding is open for that until February 26 so we are accepting all of that electronically with Seth is um managing that for the city so um come February 26 we'll know
what contractors uh put the bid in for that and what the what their anticipated costs are so um those are the bulk of the things we're working on right now aside from the next two topics so any questions so Amber what causes the flooding it wasn't the weather was it yeah the Sun the angle of the sun melts North ends of hockey rinks in the you know upper mid West northern part of the
country here um so yeah we lost on the worst probably four feet and we were all the way down to concrete wow so wasn't even that warm no but the sun when the Sun hits it does some damage um and then in between the sunshiny days we added more water in hopes of that would be the stuff the ice that melted which it
mostly was so the second sunshiny warm day was not as bad um so yes we've gotten probably about an inch built back up on the North End so Another good argument to have the something over top of it correct so if it's not if this week we weren't flooding we were doing snow removal because that's just what Mother Nature gave us this week
okay any other questions for Department report all right um new business so two topics here that we're looking at um one is the community center that's going to be our first topic second to that is um going to be city park so Parks the parks department oversees both the community center and the parks
Community Center has one budget and the parks has one budget okay um I did put a lot of supplemental information in your packet um since Bruce is new this is just kind of an in intro to him but also a review for all of you guys um in your packet I did ask a few questions I want to be clear that city council sets Direction and that my hope with this is it's more of an idea shap
during brainstorming session trying to make sure that we're looking at different angles um making sure we have our bases covered here so looking at the community center um wanting to get just some feedback some input um if there's anything operationally that we should be looking at and then um thoughts on a scope of work for community center updates So within our Capital Improvement plan we have a couple of items coming down the pipeline so just
trying to get ahead of that um and making sure that our operation and our improvements are in line with the direction of that facility that kind of make sense where we're looking tonight um and so questions in your packet are kind of the goals of the operation you know Parks were always looking at the balance of generating Revenue versus providing a service um
what do we need to do to achieve those goals and then incorporating um different updates into figuring out the scope of work um for some of those updates recently we have done two furnaces in the past two years two three three years um looking ahead the carpet the floorings coming due for replacement um I don't know how familiar you guys are with the community center
so there's part carpet and then there's part like vinyl boring um and so the tile like the tile dance floor in the hallway is in better shape than the carpet um eventually they'll both need to be done um the bathrooms in part um where most of the repairs need to happen the mirrors are chipped the sinks things like that um
the women's bathroom um would there's two sinks within there one would be Ada and the other is not um then looking at the toilets partitions in the tile within the bathrooms um window shades right now they're like blinds um they keep falling down and trying to get actual curtains there
um and then staining the exteriors coming due and then whatever board Replacements that would coincide with that um and then the parking lot as well so being that there's um a few options for options and needs for updates um just wanted to kind of talk with you guys a little bit um about
how we want to go through this process um the scope of work for it just kind of the the magnitude of it I did put in there the agreement um that renters have we have not updated it since 2021 Magie and I kind of talk about it that we would like to update it again after these improvements um so we have that in there for you guys' reference and feedback as well as a summary of how the space is
used um it's primarily classes nonprofits birthday parties things like that and then about eight maybe 10 weddings a year I do have a question yes um and it goes kind of towards the the actual booking and charges yes of it for the difference between a party package and for 100 people and more and 99 people and less
that were right around $700 almost for the party package why is like why are you guys going by the amount of people and not just the space and does the party package include like all the tables and all that stuff is that where that additional $700 is coming from speak on yeah maybe might have more history on that was part of it when I was started here yeah I when I first
started 11 and a half years ago I did an extensive research about what other areas and what other event centers charged and that the biggest piece is is the more people that are in there the more wear and tear there is on flooring and walls and bathrooms and things like that and so uh a lot of that price difference with those people came from that and I mean you okay 99 versus 100 like one person you're going to
charge me $700 more like I know it seems crazy but it's just based on how much wear and tear is in there for that is part of it obviously more people are flushing using the supplies cleaning more use of tables and chairs the tables and chairs are included in all rentals however there's an additional fee under the optional charges if you want us to set them up or take them down so
okay because I would say that's probably like the biggest room for improvement um if for I don't know all the like the I guess all the planning that I've been a part of and also like just party whatever things that I've rented Etc um it is kind of a hard thing to go across of people I understand the concept of wear and tear Etc but I
mean for let's just say the weddings for instance do we just out topic off the top of your guys's head do you guys know if that was planned for a 100 people or more out of those Four Weddings that happened this year um there is a space in there for them to write how many attendees they'll have right but we don't have it staffed so there's no confirmation necessarily if you look at kind of the breakdown for the the
community center annual rentals all of these packet wedding and events M they have rented it for a one day a two- day or a three day those are the $800 packages when you look at those dollar amounts they are paying the party package rate sure because like like you said if you're flirting with that line of 110 people I for sure would probably say it's going to be probably less than 100 bucks 700 bucks you know to save the 700
but um I don't know I would say that that would be like the one part that I would say that you guys should revisit um on setting prices for more of the rental of the Space versus people because then you can kind of average it out and um so you can essentially charge the 99 under people a little bit more and then make it a little more valuable as well for the 100 plus people and then hopefully in turn
you could potentially increase your Revenue there but anyways that was my only thought Blake I don't know if this is what you're getting at but I kind of same thoughts is do you actually lower that 99 and so the the package would be higher for maybe 50 or 60 instead of 99 um is that what you're kind of no I would say there should just be a flat rate for the room so if you rent it for the DAT it's $500 yeah it should be a flat rate for any who RS that building
based on how many people right kind feedback do you get back do you get from that when you're when you're given an estimate for the for the community center does anybody when you're talking about a large group nobody really complains about it it's I would say if people are doing an event in there i' I'll even say from a birthday party to a graduation celebrations of life sometimes there's a little bit more of a question in regards
to those events but for a wedding people are like this is still the cheapest place around by far literally by far by far yep and it's hard to separate if you say oh if it's for a wedding I'm making this number up it's $1,000 but if you're just in there for a birthday party it's only 500 because then everybody's going to say I'm having a birthday party with a band it somehow but yeah what about the she had 87
nonprofits and you guys don't charge for the nonprofits that's another what what type of nonprofits are typically using for um Girl Scouts Lions um in the past the women's group there's a Wednesday women's AA group that uses it yeah mostly I mean to me and then there's every once in a while there's like a fishing or like a feasant forever
kind of oneoff stuff but it's mostly the Lions and the girls SCS are the in the women's gr the consistent users 4 sometimes and do the Lions since I know they use it and you know they have gaming do they do they typically make any there I saw a $6,000 donation is there is that from the Lions yeah yes they make an annual donation is the goal for the improvements to
be able to increase Revenue um yes and no um I think there's there's a fine line right of the level of service we can provide for the cost that we're charging and so obviously weddings have different standards than a birthday party um typically yeah and so one one thought is you know right now um just keeping it status quo we don't
want to make too many changes too frequently sure the other thought is is yes once you kind of make some of the updates it potentially could Elevate the Aesthetics um which might offset some of the rental desires or needs um and so yeah it's a little twofold that way um but not necessarily like the updates causing the rate increase I would say no
okay that's just inflation and yeah time for sure where would run of the Lakes fall in that category are they non um we have their own line item for them line item um that the Run for the lakes and the firecracker run each have their own um they're two three day rentals yeah we were just trying to years ago just at kind of what some of those
events because some of them were using them for three days or four days and then it was just like okay how many days do you actually need it and kind of just getting a feel for how many days these events firecracker and things like two days for those runs yeah and they do a fantastic job they clean up and those are great events hardly know they're there so servicewise we don't have an attendant there um it's all a
cart if you want us to do tables and chairs and cleaning and things like that if you want those Services provided if you want the kitchen if you want AV um you kind of Choose Your Own Adventure after you rent the room um and that's not the case for a lot of places so that makes us unique um sometimes the more you charge the more they're going to expect the staff to be present and all these other things to be included so looking at that um probably is another consideration as to renting the
room versus splicing out some of the different Services um as we look forward how long how long has the community center been there um it's been added on to 92 the 990s seem to ring a bell to me I'm going to say the furnaces I think they said they were 20 something8 years old so that long
Pap yeah so I was doing girl scouts there when my daughter was she was born in 90 so it's an early you know mid 90s doing doing Girl Scouts in there yeah it's been around it's been a great thing to have here in the community I mean and that's a good point J and that's kind of what I was asked wondering about you know your questions one and two there Amber I think are good ones and I don't know what the council um when you talk about generating
Revenue versus providing the service particular on the nonprofit but I I I can give you the thought process we had because we ran into exactly the same situation was on the council in Detroit Lakes with our Pavilion I don't if any of you with the Pavilion in Detroit Lakes but basically the nonprofits were using that for no charge or we had a nominal charge which they always came and then wanted you know wanted to be Exempted so you get all these not non profits and they all
wanted you nobody wanted to be charged and that was impacting the budget for the for the city because you know we had our Public Works guys that had to maintain it and whatever whatever and then the same nonprofits were going to our lurker fund for their event and getting the donation so we were as a city donating twice so and I have a lot of love for the nonprofits I mean I was in the JC's and you know we used the Pavilion a lot so what we ended up doing was basically
said you know you gave a discounted rate to the nonprofits but nobody got an exemption and then if the city wanted to support a particular event whether it was maybe a firecracker run or whatever it might be right then the city would donate through the liquor fund and and that's the way we supported the nonprofit and then the the regular City fund got the revenue from at least some of the revenue from renting it so just a thought there if I don't know again what
the the direction from the council is or what the you know when you say what is providing a service if maybe the providing the services the city wants to do that without a charge to the nonprofits I'm not arguing against that I'm just saying you know sometimes to be fair maybe it's better to actually charge a feed and then if the city wants to support a particular nonprofit they can do that another way yeah I'll say with our current setup um if the a nonprofit wanted to rent it on the
weekend right um where that's typically where the other rentals are coming in to play the weddings the birthday parties there is a charge for that um and it's 50% charge so I'd say the nonprofits are very good about trying to schedule their items on the week days where we're not seeing as many Revenue generating events so that's kind of how we've tackled it currently um trying to strike that
balance um well I guess a follow up to my question about how old it's been has it ever I mean because it it really isn't generating all that much for the city especially how much money that get has to get put into it has it ever been discussed retrofitting it or changing the use of it in some capacity just through all all of our Master planning
the community center kind of got ignored a little bit just because it's functioning as is you know would this be a time to take a look at it now that we're you know lose momentum but we're not going for the DNR Grant um but do we relook at the community center and maybe relook at the master plan and could we retrofit because we're you know the long term we are looking at a new new hockey facility
and warming house bathrooms all that pickle ball do we look at the community center and say hey can we retrofit the community center and have half of that a nice new warming house with bathrooms that goes off you know and put hockey more towards the warming you know towards the community center and you can have two uses out of it still have some rooms to rent out but maybe you you take off the wedding venue side and you have a nice warming house with parking that's
you know connected to hockey or do we look at pickle ball right off of it and we can office staff out of there and you can making money for pickle ball and maybe add an indoor pickle ball or you know I don't have all the answers but looking to retrofit Andor change the use of the community center into something new also very has it served his time as we're looking at putting you know $140,000 into
it a fabulous idea I could see a pickle ball indo or indoor pickle ball just like built right off that and that couldn't be any more than it cost cost for six outdoor you know valid points because a lot of money I'll say my time here no we have not talked about the community center in depth and we didn't other than um
the different concepts of the master plan um it was largely not talked about um I think if there is now would be the time to discuss these things that's kind of why I'm bringing it up because obviously the scope of work and the longevity of the building and how much we transfer just want to make sure that we're on the path the city wants us to be on yeah and obviously that would put a A Wrinkle In what our current master plan looks
like but being that we're we haven't gained a ton of momentum in the fundraising you know would now the be the time to say hey let's pump the brakes even more and take a look take a closer look at that Community Center how can we maybe incorporate that a little bit more into the master plan even if it's changing some things up and finding better uses for it and still I mean it could still function as it is
right now but maybe changing it up and adding something to it or changing a couple of the uses within it um yeah I don't know that space in the basement is that still just used for storage or is there yes yes okay is it full um there's it's actually divided into two different basements and so there's Community groups that have storage in one basement with some mechanical equipment and then
the other basement has City storage and other mechanical what do you mean Community groups have storage um like the Lions Garden Club women's group that's most of it so there like little storage lockers they don't take out much space they're just smoke they're like Walkin rooms yeah they're like walk-in closets for free
you can't really use the basement for anything because there's no windows there's really no there's no fire escape so they would I me you would have to yeah I remember it from it's it's kind of dark and dingy and no but I um really wanted to bring this up just as we're looking at um a new C here trying to get them up to
speed getting Bruce up to speed um looking down the pipeline we have updates that need to I think I originally had them scheduled for this year and I punted them out another year um but looking at the space because it is a rental space we do need to be proactive because I can't rent it while we remodel and so trying to figure out the scope of that work is it am I just looking at the carpets and that's all we're going to do and I can just put a new mirror up and we're
done and we're going to carry on um is it does it include retiling the bathrooms adding on the Dance Floor Does it include remodeling bathrooms and making uh single stall bathroom you know the whole scope um for how we want the building to function for the foreseeable and the long-term future um and again like I said these are questions for city
council but helpful for me to hear your guys's thoughts and perspective on it would I'm all for my opinion we we went through a discussion on this with the Lions about what they were you know they donate six grand they were very instrumental in building it we didn't want to
upset them too much by saying okay you need to pay X every time you're here um but I agree with Bru I think we should look at the clubs that use it a small fee maybe it's annual fee I don't know how uh Detroit Lakes did it but I've always thought that should be community centers for the community however if you have only four organizations nonprofits that are using it you know outside of the rentals maybe you guys could look at
it phenomenal pieces whether it's every use or a year I think that annual fee would be a great idea probably with the caveat of how many times you could use it though yeah what's what's the plan long-term plan for aren't you guys planning to build new facility down by 77 on is the
city planning to do some building down there Mark is your microphone on that's a long story um it had been looked at you know what okay so short answer no
the fire department was looking at their building a lot of things that needed to be done with it um do we want to put the repairs into it or do we want another building and do we want to have a Safety and Security building um so we decided let's look down that path we looked at a couple pieces of property to do that to move the fire department police department and our
ambulance in in a different area so it's all in one building and then the just discussions were also when doing that then the fire department the fire building that we currently have public works could use that because they really don't have a place to park their plow trucks and things in the winter so they could utilize that um so we looked at different pieces and we ended up with the property down there of the ones that we looked at cuz the council was told
well this won't work because of traffic flow and that won't work because of flat you know and this would be a a perfect spot the other reason why we looked at that too um when that came up is because we know with development and getting apartment buildings in here the city needs City water at some point so that would be a perfect place to it it's basically the highest point in this that would be a perfect place for a water tower um but but that's still in
the planning stages the looking to the Future type of thing um and on that also there was a couple of organizations that said well they'd build a hockey arena there but then the city would be liable for all the maintenance and everything and you're looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars annual so that kind of went down um but yes we're still having
discussions on what we will finally do with the property there um but those are the major things a new Safety and Security building and then water I guess the reason I asked is because if I mean I didn't know how far out in the future that was but following up with Paul's idea I mean if instead of remodeling and adding to the current Community Center as a a possibility to incorporate you know a new community
center attached to the fire hall you know so that would be something to ponder we when we built a new police station in in Detroit Lakes then we put a community it's not a community center but it's a large community room that allows nonprofits because typically they're only having 20 30 people at a time use the facility and then they use it free because it's just part of the police department right and that would
be an option too is if if and when I mean this is years down the road uh building a new fire station with the police and the ambulance um there are some meeting rooms in that building right now but then and I'm sure they could be secured but there would be if nonprofits wanted to meet they could there's a room in there that they could meet I'm not suggesting that now because I mean I have no say in that with the you know with the fire department but I mean
that's something that could be looked at at that time but that does make sense um just think I think there but there there's um a city council Workshop coming up at the end of the month and that property is a topic on the workshop so I think there's you guys know as well as everyone all these things take time and so there's going to be a lot of discussions coming down what
exactly that infrastructure is and timelines and funding and all the different mechanisms that go into it um so I think there's definitely thoughts for that there's thoughts on it if there's something different that we want to do with the existing one um all this stuff I will bring towards city council when it's appropriate we don't have to make decisions here today obviously they have the final say on what the
building um you know what the agreement is what the updates are things like that um but definitely helpful hearing different ideas different feedback points of view um possible ways to navigate it um but yeah really I'm going to have to dial down on that scope of work and figure out what um what it's going to be the carpet's the main one that's really coming due and then
there's room for improvement in other areas other thoughts on the community center your fees probably are set for this year because you already correct yeah yes that's already been improved for this year so I took some notes on considerations for our next review how do you know how many weekends is already book out for the year or no I mean
not 50% or no no not 50% if I had to throw a number I would say 25 to 30% some like normally like I would say June July August September is normally October was booked all last year so yeah and some of them are just one day some are two days sometimes I try through a Saturday event and a Sunday event to try
and like if somebody's already booking for the weekend or cleaning I try not to make her staff come in too many times on whoops too many times on a weekend yeah um or too many weekends in a row so I'm like well if somebody's coming in Saturday if I can do a Sunday just once a month to try and double book some of that um I will do that but yeah July August September and October were I think every weekend was booked last year and it's filling up yeah and the ability to double book depends on staff
availability since we're not here on the weekends yeah to flip the room I'd be like oh Alyssa comes in and has a birthday party I know she's going to clean up I'm maybe not worried about it so there are some people that I don't always feel like somebody of our staff needs to go check and inspect it um but a lot of weddings I try and sell the three-day package just so it makes it a little bit feasible to have that there but mostly weddings are Friday Saturday sometimes they'll do a Sunday but how
did they find you how did they find the community center we advertise in weddings north um and another local magazine um I think most of it is people are just from here um or they've been to another event to another event there we are listed on the knot and another event it's called event City or event ventive I can't remember what it's
called but we are listed on a few of those just as our information and it brings a link to our website because they're free so you do have a website about community center right yeah it's on our City website we're just looking at to 2026 I guess I agree with Blake I think the the deal for the weddings is a pretty good deal so we look at increasing that
and I will just State this for just for the new people or who have not rented it you know part of our rental fees we don't you're not required to go through one of our vendors and we don't cook food and meals and things like I will say the only restriction that you cannot do is bring in alcoholic beverages that has to be purchased and served through our city staff at the pickle it's informal and easy yes and so I mean I've
had people bring roters and they were roasting a pig for a wedding event so they had their little roster outside so there's a lot of flexibility and for those who are on a budget and I mean you're not finding any pricing anywhere around that is this cheap and as I told Terry when my daughter's reception was there for her wedding that if they would have had a credit card reader there they would have had more sales
old the pickle yeah we're working on that I know okay so going on if unless there's other comments on that um I'm scrolling to City Park um so just to walk everybody back through a little bit of History um we set a fundraising goal for 600,000 by
February 1st of this year and that was for phase one pickle ball and playground Improvement um as of January 28th vissa enrichment fund has a balance of $ 36,590 um that Nissan enrichment fund was going to be used for matching dollars for the DNR outdoor recreation Grant so we do not have enough matching dollars to apply for that Grant um with that we
have asked width to kind of pause on the planning um until we know more about our funding capabilities and sources um we are still going to get an initial playground design from Flagship I talked with them um earlier in January and decided to table it till the March 6th meeting um where we should have an initial design to comment on um
but obviously as we talked in January there's some flexibility of the shape of the container and things like that um and so I did provide the feedback on colors and just general direction to them so we will have something to respond to um but likely that is going to take some time as well before we kind of keep running through additional
revisions um so with that again questions for Council but I'm bringing them to you guys as well um we as of today set a meeting with all of city council for March 18th at 5:00 pm that's ahead of the regular city council meeting uh and that is to look at parks and the heavy emphasis on City Park um looking through it you guys know as well
as anyone that we have aging infrastructure that's where all this has been coming from the hockey rink especially and then the playground um and so we will be having a workshop with city council to kind of Step through some of this um but want to have an initial conversation with you all about um how we might want to adjust the fundraising
campaign um any changes how that impact the campaign or the phasing or budgeting um other funding opportunities um Bruce and I have talked about and kind of the whole start of this was the local option sales tax um and if there's any if that's still an Avenue that the city wants to pursue um if there's other options that we can be looking into and then um it's been a while since I've
shared with you guys but just I in your packet I provided a list of all of the programs the participation numbers and the cost per program um so you do have all of that for the service the recreational services that we providing um so yeah mostly just trying to gauge from you guys um ideas for next steps
um do you have any initial thoughts otherwise I'll keep going only thought I have is that I think that we need to put efforts at finding a team before we assign any numbers or talk about any numbers that we want to raise because obviously we were able to raise $36,000 you mean like a fundraising committee yeah and actually like put effort towards that versus a dollar amount because our hands are tied it's
that's been pretty clear and so um until there is a fundraising committee I don't know how to go about even being able to throw a dollar amount at this and like I said last week last time I think there's a misconception as to where these dollars are coming from right from the community so I think that's a really good idea and I I think there's a mindset that the
city's gonna pay for a lot of this park yeah absolutely um so I think that's uh either the city has to step up and pay more or it has to be communicated that no City's not paying for it like this has to be all fundraised and not when we say the city's going to pay for it the community thinks the city already has the money or that we are going a levy for the money which would be from the tax that the city already
has the money okay to be clear anyone that is listening the city does not already have the money to fund this yes we know that but I think that I I've heard from a number of people you know they've seen plans of this and and I know we've been marketing it and we've been trying to fund raise but I think there still is a mindset of well we see the master plan taxes have increased taxes have increased you know where where's our Park sure what are my
taxes going for yes because I mean looking at our Parks the city of nisell I mean we are a small town but we only have four Parks three Parks four parks and to be here with a A long long long list of infrastructure that hasn't been touched in you know a long time one of the parks I mean we just formed last you know last year so we we
were really looking at three Parks so it's as a citizen you do have to ask like why doesn't the city have funds not necessarily for this big huge Master Park but why why do we not have more funds just to have decent infrastructure right yeah that's been the current council's question also you know I'm not going to lay blame anywhere but I mean I
think I think a CIP should have been started 30 years ago or more just for that to help with keeping up with the infrastructure stuff and that um was pushed off to the Wayside we started a CIP but it's nowhere near able to fully fund it I mean we went through the numbers Amber and I the other day and it's a lot of money um no the city
doesn't have the money you got to look at who when you ask people and there's survey out there and the two main amenities that they use within nisah when they come in those are residents and visitors it's a city park and the trails okay um so I look at who benefits a lot from that okay let's say we didn't have that City Park part how would that affect the
businesses you know I in a way they're benefiting because um and and I know some business owners that agree because you know they have people coming in with kids and mom might be shopping and then Dad and the kids they go to the the city park so they know so there are a few business owners that understand they're benefiting so I think when we look at that there should be a a reach out to the uh to the business community and and others and saying no we don't have the money the
infrastructure was not kept up you know to where it should have been so let's figure out how to fund this um when we first started looking at it the the funding mechanism that the council was looking at was lost local option sales tax to fund the the park to get it up to where it needs to be um my opinion is the two major things that the park at really need to be taken care of or the playground and in the the
rink um if you take the rink out of it or let's say the rink is shut down for a few years it only takes two years for the people not to come back and it is being used by pond hockey and the youngers and so forth um there are some safety issues there too um and I've stressed that um Amber and this committee need direction as to where the
council wants them to go um henceforth that's why the the meeting um on the 18th in March to say okay this is where we're at where are we going a lot of things will be discussed there but my hope is is coming out of that that there will be direction from the full Council and and we can look at and
serious think about how to get the funds in there but there also needs to be just say and I and I've stressed this too Friends of the park for to help with the fundraising and keeping up with the the maintenance of the infrastructure um niswa doesn't have that um I don't know if Detroit Lakes ever had that kind of uh group I know buiji is a huge one and it and it does well because you once
once some of the municipalities form those I know we have a friends of the Lake Park but miji has one that is for all of the parks and they do a phenomenal job and once that was organized and put together um it helped out immensely they were able to do things that just kind of floored me but um the and I'll go back to uh revenue and
service I'll just touch on that uh my opinion is parks are parks are never really going to be a revenue generator but you'd like to see some Revenue coming in with the community center you know and Parks if we have pickle ball indor that to at least cover the cost for the the maintenance and upkeep and hopefully to help continuing with the the infrastructure take of that um and
that's what I look at it's never going to pay for the 810 million for the park replacement um but I think that I think the fee schedule really needs to be looked at do we start doing our nominal do do you guys want to put a nominal fee for the for the nonprofits you know how do we want to do that and as you said you know maybe use or add on to it for a warming house maybe we re maybe the thought is that just restructure move things around in the park I don't know how that that that's a whole new
thinking through and that might be in Rabbit Hole don't want to go down but um things need to be addressed the council needs to give Direction that's what I'm going to say so the other thing in you guys' packet I kind of broke it down into some information on the playground um because there's a whole every decision has a different set of possible decisions from that um so with the playground talking
to Flagship um to exist to replace the existing 5 to 12-year-old playground and some of the accessory structures they're estimating about 200 to 250,000 to just replace what we have um for fundraising to elevate it to more of that inclusive destination level playground we had a goal that was kind of earmarked at 690,000 for the hockey ring I put some background information in there in 2021
um we started getting some quotes to make repairs um retrofitting the lights at that time was about $35 to $50,000 to repair the refrigeration was just shy of $10,000 um the concrete we did patch it um just more like a liquid non-expanding drought um so it's only a couple hundred dollar but it's going to be a continuous thing um looking at those numbers that
led us into a feasibility study for the rink looked at different replacement options um depending on the scope how big the rinks are if it has a roof if it has a refrigeration things like that um it was anywhere from like 1 to 5 million and then what we've used in the fundraising um it's more than just the hockey rink
so it's the hockey rink with the refrigeration with the roof with a warming house with a maintenance garage with a parking lot and with that Center Plaza okay so that's in part why it's 8 and a half million because it is so many components it's not just the hockey rink um since I sent this packet out so we've had some repair costs we've had some replacement costs I'm looking at removal
costs there's glycol still in the system and we think there's some level of freon some Refrigeration so back in 2019 there [Music] um they replaced the R22 with a new Refrigeration coolant chemical um there are some issues at that time and it's been inoperable since that time and so
they're not positive how much Refrigeration we have in the system so it's very hard for us to get a good quote on what the removal will be because I don't know how much chemical is in there um so far our best guess is about 8 to 10,000 to just remove the freon and glycol so that would be like kind of the phase one of the removal will be removing the uh hazardous waste that
could be an environmental issue so we just want to make sure that we're thinking about that and handling that appropriately um we do not want that leaking into the ground from there it'd be the equipment in the maintenance garage City staff think that they'd be able to take that apart and bring it for scrap um we looked at the motors it doesn't appear that there a lot of value to them um so
likely everything would go to scrap and then the last component of removal would be the outside infrastructure um that would then be the boards the concrete and the lighting so there's phases within removal that we can walk through um with that there's impacts different Services right so the lighting we're under lit for recreational hockey so one service would
be we just don't offer pond hockey program but we still flood the rink we're still open at night the next level would be we're no longer open at night the next level is we no longer have a warming House service so there's a lot of different layers and options to the service um and that's part of the direction that I'm going to need from city council um in terms of
operation in terms of how we want to spend our dollars in terms of how we want to provide services um from there we have the warming house and the bathrooms the bathrooms are coming due for some stuff um and then we've already deferred on some of the maintenance garage Roofing re-roofing waiting to see how this is going to
transpire there's a lot there yeah um I'm practicing my summary so if you have feedback on my summary as well please let me know Refrigeration Refrigeration cannot be fixed is that correct um the last quote I got was over $10,000 to $10,000 by cancelling ponie right the the biggest problem with
source that the biggest problem with the chilling system it it was uh put in approximately 20 years ago it was used at that time it's it's outdated outworn so uh and they've charged it different times over the over those 20 years so the question is do we want to keep putting $10,000 into charging it then the other question is is talking to somebody that I know that they put in these ranks is if we have chipped concrete like we
do there's a good possibility that some of the piping is damaged if it's damaged it's leaking what is the leak now you didn't say that is a definite but it's a good sign that that could be leaking Al when it comes to poni the greater issue is it's underlit correct providing yeah and I think that we should be spending the money to get lights so it is safe for the kids like that I feel I'm going to kind of echo things
and maybe expound a little bit but um with that $36,000 that we raised here in the last year in hopes of $600,000 I mean the question kind of comes up of how much are we going to neglect the citizens of niswa and things that we're offering to hopefully fingers cross maybe just maybe we would raise enough money for a project that could be completed in 30 years from now yeah we keep saying 15 but throughout we're going there's no way that's going to
happen so it's more of a neglect question on how long we want to push that off I agree so I mean so what I'm kind of hearing you guys say is you'd like to use the money we have right now and put into our existing infrastructure well to get people to come to here niswa to use things we have to have a safe facility to have things and people to provide a safe environment Etc but if we
don't have a safe environment or we remove items from people to come here we're kind of in this CH uh this pickle where we're not going to be able to raise money because we have nothing to enti people to go yeah so as an alternative throwing options out here right like so we're we have what we have lights concrete boards is that what we would like to keep maintaining or are we just looking to provide outdoor skaing because we can
flood the ground but the refrigeration system it is key too to the sun I mean because we've we've been out last week three times and it's three4 of it is ConEd off or a quarter of it sorry is ConEd off and you know not safe right so it makes sense to have refrigeration to keep the ice there so we can use it long longer I mean I think last year what we used at 35 days because of the sun and it going
away you could probably have used it a lot more days and generated more Revenue to pay for itself or pay for the repairs for the refrigeration it just seems like they would pay for itself so Revenue Wise It's probably 2500 and for Staffing we probably spend $1,000 a week on Staffing so just like those are some of the numbers within the budget um between uh uh concessions in two pond hockey
leagues and a handful of rentals um it's probably bringing in about 3,000 is 2500 3,000 for the season and then our staffing um we staff at over 40 hours a week throw Revenue out of there how many kids are you going to disappoint by not having that facility and how many parents and how many community members I mean it is it is I we hear it all the time it is the most love device in the area it is and it is very well used
there's people who drive out from Staples to use it I mean it is number one rank in the area yes yeah it's to me it I don't know so were you suggesting using that $36,000 to to get the lighting and to get the to get the well it was like the first meeting that I attended last year that it was okay we have it takes we have what 40,00 that we have to put back into the community to upkeep and whatever or do
we just not do it I was on the other side of the fence last a year ago of like no we shouldn't put any money in but really having the safe environment for people to play and then also just in general people to come here um I mean there's so much more than just obviously renting the facility it's also just bringing people to the community and the businesses and all that stuff um so yes I I would be
suggesting um jumping into that fund a little bit to at least make it operable well when we when that fund was first started we were going to allocate certain the people that put that monies in where they were going to either allocate it to pickle ball the hockey rink or the playground so so we got to keep that prompt you know some of it has been some people did put notes on there for different aspect you can't that's that you have to we have to stand by
that and I do want to reiterate we do need to keep safe facilities so what's that other fund though that we do have so we do have we call it the make nice to the ice fund um there's probably 120,000 in that fund and that's only for the hockey rank um the other fund we have Park dedication funds and I'm thinking right now the balance is about 90,000 and that's and and then we have a
capital Improvement fund that has 169,000 so we also have a $200,000 playground coming down the pipeline minimum right plus the hockey rink I mean and then the warming houses and garages because I'll say this and it's not going to be the popular opinion in the matter but and I will be the
first to admit like I I don't have a connection to the hockey rank and I know how popular it is in the community but I do think that we the city has put themselves in a position to where they've been putting a Band-Aid on infrastructure for a long long time and we're in a spot where we don't have any money to fix up the infrastructure and we keep putting more and more Band-Aids on what we have and I would I personally would much rather put money towards new
infrastructure and providing something to the community that's going to be sustainable versus continuing to put it towards something that's failing and unsafe um and I would I guess disagree I mean I think if you shut it down and I don't like ultimately I don't want that to happen um but if you do shut down yes people are going to leave because they physically can't use it but if in 5
years we can come to them with a new facility people are going to come back and want to be a part of a new a new facility I would I mean I would have to imagine Mark at at your workshop on March 18th are you guys talking about the local option sales tax we haven't made an agenda yet um but funding sources and is like top of the
list on trying to figure out how to fund any any anything whether it is a repair a removal or replacement all of it needs to have funds so I would say yes local option sales tax if there's an interest I would like to gauge city council's interest so is is as you can call the Minnesota revenue or maybe you've already done that like if you had a half cent sales tax we have a ballpark or what that would yeah what would that be 600,000 yeah so
absent would be 600,000 m i mean so you could that's that's an approximate very basic analysis preliminary analis so you're talking about 600,000 yeah so if you had a if you said we're going to have a 15year bond of whatever how much could you pay off at 600,000 a year I I mean I just you know and I apologize
because I'm new to the committee here but I mean we've had I had these discussions for 20 years in Detroit Lakes and I'm sorry I I suppose I should be talking closer I but um first of all I heard the the advocate for the you brought it up I think Mark the advocate for the different venues right I mean so you have a soccer we had a soccer probably the same in beiji you had a soccer group supported the soccer fields you had the softball group supported the softball fields you had the hockey
people that supported the hockey uh they they have one group up there that Sports it all okay so they have one one group so if it has to do with hockey the NHL players that are retired up there they take care of it so yes so they have one group but if it is just for hockey then those guys oversee that but everybody else works with it if if it's for another area there's group that knows everything about that so they head it up but everybody else works with it yes
yeah so once you have I mean I guess the point I was coming to is once you have the infrastructure in place yes it's very important to have the community Buy in with groups or one group however you structure it to then support the maintenance of that because whether you start a CIP program or not you're not going to be able to do everything you want it's just no with the levy I mean I you know I heard taxes going up here and I mean you know that's the the problem you have I I I'm going to tell you a
quick antidote and I I apologize for it but I we had one of our truth and Taxation meeting come and a guy on the we had the north side and the south side of town because they were split by the railroad track okay so anyway the guy comes and he's from the north side and he railed and railed and railed about the tax increases we had and why do we have these tax increases and then at the end of his deal he says and we need a park on the North side so that's what you run into is you know you have these tax increases but people always want the
amenities but they don't want the taxes to increase the local option sales tax would be a great way to do all the infrastructure or maybe not all of it but a lot of this that you're talking about tonight and then supplement that with you know you have a pickle ball group if you built the pickle ball courts then you have to have the pickle ball group that says we're going to have dues and we're going to help not with all the maintenance but with the regular maintenance yeah right yeah right and and that that was the initial talk when we were looking at the what needed to be
done with the parks the council said we we would look into the lost and but now that the state put that moratorium on the Lost we can't we're just waiting for the Senate Minnesota Senate to say yes and then that's when we will look at um the local option sales tax once again that's not given either what's that that's not a given either you know is it going to Happ happen are they going to allow that to to continue Mor the house passed that
they will they will allow now they want to take the moratorium off of the local option sales tax with um stipulations in there they have to be for certain things they can't be forever um and the waight is is for the Minnesota Senate to come back and say yes we agree with the house or we'll Twerk It tweak it a little bit um so so we're I'm ready a couple others are
ready on the council as soon as that comes through to say okay yes this is what we want to do and put it through then you have to bring it to the vote to the citizens see if they want that because my opinion is is we have you know I mean we have a lot it's a tourist area so it's Detroit Lakes so if you bring in the local option sales tax people that are coming to visit and using the parks I mean they can help fund it I understand where you're coming from what I'm saying it's not a GI it's going to happen no it's never a given that it's going to happen yeah so that
so I mean that's we can be hopeful you know that that that goes through but that's not that's not a given either right and and and you know there's also we have to look at other ways to get people involved um to say oh yeah I'd like to I'd love to have you know of the local uh citizens who has put $50 million into
certain things across the country and it's like it'd be kind of nice if you could do that here yeah you know um you just put $10 million into the this Academy and you just put $20 million into that Academy what about here where you live you know I mean that's one of the things You' like to look at too so I think there's um a lot to this com conversation I think there's going to be a many more
conversations um looking for some actionable items maybe discussing with city council um a fundraising committee or just how we're going to maybe get some more Community involvement a friends of an organization type thing um looking at different Revenue sources sales tax more options um is there anything else I
think there's a whole conflict of repair replace remove and the repair replace remove goes with everything so if the playground is close to not being able well let's remove it for five years I don't that doesn't make sense right like let's not remove things from the community let's let's repair them to make sure that they're here like it just does not make sense but we have I mean we have replacement funds for the
playground right now and we have $250,000 well we have funds how we want to use them is the question and and the council wouldn't say let's remove the playground for five years and do it the the council would say yes we need that replaced do we have the funds we have the funds let's get this equipment let's replace it and keep it in there and that's same concept with the with the rank I started when I was younger if you wanted to go ice skating you had to go all the way down to the mill ponds nothing around
here that's when they built that and it was grateful because 1978 is when we started playing hockey out there like you know so it wouldn't be let's just rip it out and it's not there anymore it would be how do we get it how do we keep it going one the Cher system has been used in at least four years if not five so it's not been used isn't usable um so my question is to you guys do we take
out the Cher system do we drain it do we spend the funds to drain it like that this is a question that we'll go to the council drain it still have that the concrete and flood it like we do now and keep it going so that when we do get the funds okay we have the funds now we can now we can do it does that make sense because I I'm not I'm not of one that says oh just rip out the rank and just leave nothing there well I kind of heard
that that was a sentiment like potentially um and that scares me I think that kind of an idea we're just we're just kind of throwing ideas around right but if there if there's money if there's money in there for repairs for the hockey rink there1 you're not gonna we're not going to get that big grandiose hockey rink two three years from now you know it's going to be what five years from now the one thing about that is is is be like I had said I I talked to a guy and
they go around internationally and put in arenas hockey arenas that's their whole job so when I was discussing about that and and he even saw how that concrete was chipping he says his concern would be is that that has now affected the piping in there so there might be leaks wanted to know how long we were we still chilling I says no it's been at least four or five years since then he said if it were him he would have all the glycol taken out taken out because we're not chilling
it now and then using it as is until you have enough funds to do it because if they're because he said if the piping is damaged and there's small leaks that's not a big thing he said but if if it's damaged and it's a large leak then you're it's an environmental impact and it will then so so that that's where I'm coming from let's let's take care of that the glycol and the equipment but keep the concrete do you think you should have another expert come out and see if that is true or it can't be
repaired I didn't have him come as an expert he was just down visiting me and we just we just took a look the city should do it's due diligence to have somebody come out and look to see can the refrigeration be repaired because it it it will extend the life of the Ring okay if I was going to make an overarching statement here because obviously we could keep going around and around and around right and there will be more conversations come but if I was going to make a general summary statement of just kind of we want to keep it safe and we want to keep the
services yeah that's what we're trying to do right now we're trying to maintain as many services as we're currently providing in a safe manner absolutely if that's the general sentiment the how we got a lot of yeah we got a lot on the how still to come but if I was going to have a overarching goal and direction would that kind of sum up where we're right trying to be right now as we work through these other items so does that pond hockey really take in $110,000 a
year Revenue no like 2500 oh okay I I heard it wrong then no potential is to have tournaments there at some point but and that can generate a little bit more Revenue we're not there yet okay we're looking at the here the thing um and there's a lot of like even Baja like looking for additional ice so you could potentially at some point you know look to the different to Northern Lakes to
Baja to because like the howlet chiller system went out and they've been practicing Outdoors um most of the season and so you know you could potentially find a way to sell your ice if you had the ice and it was and it was maintained we're forever trying to strike the balance of yeah private versus public yeah so well yes there's the opportunity to sell ice and get some income back it's still the service to the community and what's that balance
and the E and flow of that yeah and I think earlier we were discussing about we didn't want to put too much money into it because we're going to have a you know thinking about having another ice hockey arena a couple few years from now but I I kind of an agreement with with a lot of you is that if you have an infrastructure in there already you have to maintain it I mean you just that's what you got to do it yeah it does is there a restriction on the 120 that's in because I didn't
see that number before um I before we went into it I would want to Circle back with the donor group um that had been largely funding that to make sure that it's in line with their Vision yeah um like for I mean we talked about safety like by next year would like the lighting have to be done like this summer I would leave that to
insurance and maybe loss control to help us navigate that yeah same with like the roof of the you know what can we get by and what you know do we have to invest in from a safety you know perspective would be yeah just interesting to know that would yeah because ultimately yeah going back like I just hate putting money into failing
infrastructure if it's going to be you know $50,000 for lights another 10 grand just for you know a roof 10 grand to remove glycol when we have plans to redo it now could be 15 years down the road could be two years down you know I don't have the aners unfortunately but if we do have to what's the inter interim plan yeah right it may not be the full kitten Kaboodle that we have right now right but we
likely can still provide something yeah the so you might as well keep flooding it so that's what we don't have right now we see in a dream we see a dream and we see what we have in reality trying to work through the middle parts or where it's really sticky and confusing and how do we and if this then that and um I think that's kind of the rub right now that we're all trying to wrestle with the best way forward for
how to use the limited funds that we do have because I think we are all invested in the overarching goals of year round Recreation Recreation for all ages providing adequate services safe Services I think we can all agree that that that's our mission that's our vision that's what we're working on um and so yeah trying to figure out and navigate the in between
yeah so any final thoughts other certainly more to come and I will keep you guys posted um as we work through the March 18th agenda in the topics and if I need more information and dialogue from you guys and you are certainly welcome to be there um tell your friends um do you know the time yet 5:00 pm so that's 18 March 18th and five that's like the parks discussion with the council correct and then on the 25th is
about the community center not necessarily no actually it's not at all the 25th is a council Workshop a council Workshop the council Workshop will be discussing in part the infrastructure south of holiday and the newly acquired land oh yeah that's right so we have to look in a few things to make sure we have everything so there's no set time to talk about the community center but I'm going
to we it in somewhere so the community is the community is welcome on that 18th of March yes it's a public meeting held right here 5:00 pm council chambers can go to the um so yes I will certainly keep everyone up to date we do have a meeting in between our next meeting will be March 6th My Hope Is that we will have an initial playground designed to react to so one final thought I could follow
up on what Blake says so if the council's looking for some direction do we want to follow up and and say we would like to see these groups that can step up to help fund raise that's what I have on my notes that that'd be one of our recommendations um is to figure out a funding committee group involvement and MH how how we want to go about how Paula didn't volunteer
no maybe she needs a couple more months yeah like you said I mean it would be nice to get a pickle ball group a playground group uh the rally the hockey community and get a hockey group yeah people have short memories they're busy short memories you know and and I think the more we keep it the community ADV you know let them know what's going going on and what's happening and the better it is for everybody thinking
this I got it you know being new to the area that's another question a lot of times the fundraising you reach out to the business Community is the business Community you know it seems like we have a widespread business committee are they supportive there's a huge I think city council has there's a lot of different people that have some new ideas um and so sorry
so um we'll definitely put that out there as another obviously the key stakeholder groups um how we want to how city council wants to go about it we know we know that this is a missing component everybody's identified that we don't have anyone that's just taken the Reigns and got it going and it so it's I think city council will work through that um that's that's one of my asks of them I also understand the different groups but I think there should be an overarching group to your point because
it's it's Community it's all of our kids it doesn't matter if my kids do this and your kids do that I want your kids to do that and I want my kids to do this and I want everything for everybody you know so I do think it we need to figure out how to do all the things together too and not fight over my money goes here and my money goes here and don't want to make a bunch of silos yeah okay um until next time okay appreciate the input um if you
have any lingering thoughts you know where to find me um otherwise March 6 will be our next meeting um we'll take a motion to adjourn the motion Alissa