Municipal Park and Recreation Advisory Board Commission is being called to order. Today is Thursday, December 4th, 2025 and we are at city hall and it's 5:00 p.m. So, goes down to the approval of the
agenda. Can I get a motion to approve today's agenda? Make a motion to approve today's agenda. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> Anyone opposed? Which brings us to open forum?
The motion is carried and then um brings us to the department report. >> Awesome. Thank you. Uh we had a pretty robust update last month. Um just catching guys up on some of the fall activities. Uh we are quickly quickly and coldly transitioning into winter
here. Um which means we are working on flooding the outdoor ring. So that's coming up pretty quick. It does take us several days to uh to complete that task. Um so that's what maintenance is going to be working on. Uh we have a
pretty full month at the community center with rentals, lots of uh switching between events. Um so that's keeping us busy as well. For winter recreation programs, we have basketball and pond hockey registration still open until December 18th. And then for the
warming house, uh we've filled all seasonal positions. Um working on getting them onboarded, trained, completing their paperwork, all that jazz. Um, and so we'll be opening the warming house later this month after we're done flooding the rinks. Um, typically where people can find that
information is on our Facebook page and website. And then I did uh provide an update last month on the G Lake Trail. The trail is open for use, which is super awesome. Um, there are still some tasks that will be completed in the spring as well as
the um the amended scope which includes that trail in the bathroom at Nisah Lake Park. So, all of that is still on the docket for spring. We will be busy trying to achieve those timelines, but we did get that toilet approved last month and uh um it been sent off for
production. So, that's my update. Any questions for me? >> No, we don't want a January thaw again, right? >> Uh that would not be helpful. No. No, we want mother nature to give us a
nice nice little winter here. Um, cool. If that we're good there, we can move on to old business. Um, first up is the commission vacancy. So, um, Sherry's term will be up at the end of January. So, in November, we uh
posted that vacancy. the closing date or first review of applications was yesterday. So, you guys have the application. We've had one applicant. That application is in front of you. Um, this person actually contacted me back this fall interested in the commission.
Um, and so now that it's become available, um, they did reaffirm that they are still interested. Seems like a pretty decent background. Um, and they meet all the criteria.
which is residency. That's our criteria. Um so they they check that box and >> and an interest um residency and a passion. So it seems like this individual does have that passion. Um so if you guys uh with a quick read over
there, um I think we could go on to interviewing and see if this is uh a good fit for the commission. But I'll open it up to you guys and any questions um for me about the process or uh next steps.
>> So, have you worked with Stephen since on this like grant writing and stuff? >> No. >> Okay. >> Oh, does he do grant writing? He has. >> Nice. I just wonder because it says he's worked on the G Lake Trail
>> um with Lakes Shore's portion, so not Niswah's portion. >> Yeah, I think his resume looks great. Um, and especially if he's eager, I mean, if he's if he took the initiative to to reach out to you, um, before there
was even a posting, um, shows that he's he's eager to be on it. I think his his experience looks great. I think he adds probably something that none of us have experience in with some grant writing and I suppose I can't speak. >> Yeah, Bruce, you probably uh probably do
have some experience in that area, but um, no. Do we need to make a motion to um go forward with >> only >> interviewing him? >> No. >> No. >> Okay. >> Um I will reach out to him, but I do need So what the policy states is that
the chair and the liaison sit in on interviews with me. Past practices, we've gone with who's available during the daytime to help conduct interviews. So if any of you are interested in helping out, um please let me know. I'm
going to be out of the office here for at least a week minimum. Um, and so probably if we're on the fast end looking at before Christmas. Um, so if it's something you're interested in, have daytime availability, then I would
look for someone to sit in on interviews with me. >> Sure. I'm because I work from home, I have a little bit more flexibility. I could bust out here. So, >> okay. >> We if you give me a >> couple dates, >> a few days I can probably swing on that. >> Okay,
awesome. I will work on coordinating that. Um, thank you. Uh, so the bulk of the meeting today, um, if you couldn't guess what it would be, it's Nisa City Park.
um as it's been for quite some time. Uh were you guys able to watch the city council meeting from last month? Okay. So, lot of really good discussions that we've had several several meetings through the course of November. Um trying to boil this down simply. The
motion that was made at the end of the council meeting was for the parks commission to work on their top priorities and then bring that with to width to kind of come up with some value engineering some phasing. Why does it
make sense to sequence it the way we do? So previously this commission has prioritized it was first as phase one pickle ball and playground. Phase two
was then the hockey rink. Um in June we talked about making it even smaller. Right? We've talked about phase 1 A, phase 1B, so to speak, with phase 1 A being the playground of the top priorities followed by pickle ball
courts. Um, so that's kind of a little bit of the rundown of where I think we've what I've heard from this commission over the past year and a half, two years. Um, the other thing I want to add in here is the parking lot. So, you can see I've
colorcoded a lot of different areas. Uh, the parking lot is currently included on the 2027 road bond. Um, and so I I have communicated with WIDSA to make sure in their proposal that they have extra um
time and funds allocated and that to reorient and re-engineer it to follow the park's plan. Um, so I've already asked for that. Um, at one area
is the dotted blue for the patio. Um, could probably be moved, shifted, adjusted somehow. Um, and so tonight, what I would like to figure out with you guys is
what our priorities are. What do we think the sequencing might be? um not necessarily talking about any funding mechanisms, any any marketing strictly. Let's try and figure out our phasing and then I can help get Wood
Seth going on a proposal um and making sure they're coordinating construction and some of that uh engineering. Make sense? And then you guys have an email from Alyssa. Um she, like I said, she did watch the
November's Parks Commission meeting. Um so she has several points in here um that she's made. You can see different bold items in there. Uh summarizing some of what I have read from her email. Um
she has been very vocal about um using the make nice for the ice fund to help with the repairs on the hockey rink at for this interim part as well as kind of advocating for that whole playground
budget is what she wrote. Um and then she does talk uh about uh how parks are in need and leads to commerce uh various things on local option sales tax um as well as hockey day Minnesota and
revenue from hockey um as you guys know that's one of her main passion areas um and then yeah so you guys have her her thoughts there uh but I just wanted to kind of state a few of them for the record. Um, but yeah, open it up to
discussion in terms of phasing approach and what we want to be taking to Widsth to figure out construction >> and priority wise. >> I'm sure Quick question. Uh, Amber, you you mentioned the parking lot on the
2027 bond. Does, so clarify for me. Does that mean it's being paid by the city bond or is that have to be paid with park bonds? >> Um, we are it's being put on the city bond. That parking lot is uh due for
replacement. I don't know exactly how they're going to want to slice it up. Um, because it's not a exact replacement, >> but I mean it it's not expected to come out of the park funds. >> That has not been indicated as of yet.
So Woods Seth wants a clear um idea of where we were where we want to go with the phasing and whether whe whether it's going to be the parks or whether it's going to be the pickball and the parks or is he just going to do is he going to do the engineering for the whole process
first? That's kind of the part that >> a small part of the parks and the maybe the pickup courts. >> We that's part of what I need to discuss with them where their mind goes. My mind, as you guys know, has always said like we need to kind of figure out the spacing, the foundation, and then eventually when we get to it, we can
build up from there. Um, that's how my mind has always devised this. Um, but working with them to see pros and cons, what what makes sense, what doesn't. That's what council kind of directed us
to do. Um I think for us we're kind of looking at which amenities would we like group together individually um first second third and then talking with them of like what makes sense why that works maybe why it
doesn't work an alternative to that. So, how does how does this conversation relate to the vote the what we voted on at the last meeting when we determined 1A and 1B? >> Well, I think we the the idea so we had
a very robust discussion. It was Dan and Sherry here at the last meeting um talking about phase 1 A 1B um because initially we said in back in June it was more of we made a motion to
I'm going to not get the exact motion correct. Um, but basically that to ask city council how much money we could have for the playground in like the master plan footprint. So that's not replacing exactly where it
is. That would be evolving to kind of meet our goals of the master plan destination inclusive. Um, and so we were specifically asking how much money could we have from council at that time.
So in November we talked about 1A 1B trying to figure out is the playground and we wanted more commission members here to affirm that or whatever um that 1A is indeed the playground or has that
changed since our last dialogue? And maybe Sherry and Dan, you have more comments on how you interpreted November. Um, >> yeah, that's how I understood it was we had determined that 1A was the playground sands pickle ball. uh
initially to get and then to see where we were at and I it was all kind of contingent on what would the council give us. >> Mhm. are a lot towards that towards 1A and if we come back if it's engineered and it comes back
uh that we have space we add pick we can add those pickle ball that's how I understood the conversation in November is if if we if they set aside set aside $500,000 and and the park cost $350,000 then you have $150,000 to invest in
somewhere else and I think we assume we we concluded that that would be pickle Now all of that was kind of around the money given you know allotted by the council not tied to sales tax and >> so I think if money aside what's our
order? Yeah, I I mean I can agree that I mean I'm biased because I got three little kids, but just using the park as much as I do and just seeing how the park flows and functions and that playground is by far
the number one thing that's used. Um, and so I guess it'd be my opinion that that is 1A. Um, as far as top priority or phase one. Um, I think it would create the most excitement. It brings the most people into that park. And then
I do think pickle ball would be a and it's pickle ball is an easier thing to implement as far as infrastructure. there's not as much infrastructure to put in for pickle ball and so it would be an easy phase um
not a cheap phase but an easier phase to plan for for a phase two less things to plan around it >> you mean phase B not >> or phase yeah B 1B and then yeah hockey would be or I don't
know if patio would be third and then hockey rink would be fourth or if those are always going to be tied together. >> So, I think we we're we're we're talking about the phase that we're doing. I know like when we when we first started this
for well, I've only been here for four years, but this has been going on for a while. Is that the the park was the main is is the main idea while we're doing this. But when we started this, when we talked with the community, the community said they were really gung-ho, the
adults were with adding in the pickle ball. And that adds a little bit of excitement to it. So phase one, that was going to be part of it, part of the pickle ball with the with the park. And I think we have to go back and have a
discussion with the DNR grant too, you know, whether we want to go and do the DNR grant because that gives us some more funding. and gets the community all involved, you know, gets the community excited
rather than and I don't know how the lost thing is going to go. I don't know how that's going to go, but the DNR grant is where we've been kind of we've been kind of in that direction the whole entire time. And so, why don't we why don't we just keep going with that? That's that's kind of what I want to
have discussion about. Can you can you update us on the DNR grant requirements and timeline? And we're >> um yeah, I have not seen the updated criteria for this next cycle. Um usually it's posted here in December and then
it's typically open until the end of March. Uh last year's criteria we started working on and we had a proposal from Woods. At that point, we got the
the the overlay. So, we did existing conditions um and we overlaid that over um the concept design. So, what we needed for the grant was kind of like those existing conditions. Uh the grants usually require some sort of
plans. So, that's also when we began that first rendition of a playground design. So, we only ever did one. We never brought it back for further revision. Uh mostly because from my point of view, we realized we weren't
going to have enough matching funds to be able to apply. So in terms of where we landed last year, where we stopped, we ended with an existing condition survey as well as one round of
playground design. So, if you're going to go for the grant, say for the playground, you need to have that playground design, which includes like the fall depths, the radiuses, things like that. Um, which the playground company does, but we need to work with
them to design it. >> And if it's due at the end of March, what is your requirement to be able to properly write that grant and get it submitted? I mean, what what would be your drop dead date?
>> Um, well, first we need to decide what we'd want to apply for. We would need to figure out where the matching funds are coming from and I have to have whatever plans are required of that. So, like say if it's for pickle ball, then I need to
have the whatever level of engineering we need. It's probably not overly significant. Um, but we would need that to submit with the grant. >> But ultimately, I mean, it came down to lack of funds because we were I mean,
our initial goal was $350,000 in order for them to match to get >> correct >> our was it 600 >> 600,000 to but the matching um the grant is for 350,000 with a 50% match. So, max
of 700,000. >> Worst case scenario, the the engineering and the playground design, not that it can happen overnight, but it can be pushed through fairly quick, but coming up with $300,000 of funding is been our
sting block since day one. >> And so, if what I guess I'm getting at, so put the funding aside for a minute. putting the priorities aside. I mean, I'm trying to get the the the time frame here is is
you said, "I need it by March 1st." So, we need the engineering done. We need the commitment on the fundraising. Is March 1st a realistic time or can you wait till March 15th or what what are we looking at here to be >> Yeah, the grant is has been due at the end of March. Um things like engineering
needs proposals to like run through council first. So like if again depending on the level of engineering but council has directed us to look hasn't exactly directed us to do that. They haven't directed us to work with
the engineers to get that work done to complete a grant. >> So what is Woodsth doing then? Isn't isn't Woods part of part of the engineering part of part of the process of looking at the land and property? >> Yes, but it's not doing the specs to
apply for the grant necessarily. And that's that's what I'm trying to get to, Amber. I'm trying to work back. I'm saying >> Yep. >> To me, I don't think applying for the grant this year is realistic. >> Really? >> Is that what you're asking me? >> Well, yeah. Because if >> I'm not going to say it's impossible, but I think it's not very realistic.
>> Okay. If you said, "I need the information by March 1st." Then we start working back. We say, "Okay, we need the engineering stuff and we need that done in January and February." If there's a group out there fundraising dollars and the city's going to put some money in and the group's going to fund raise,
then we need to say we need that by that's what I'm trying to get at is is March 1st too late or is is that a realistic deadline for us to apply for this grant? I' I'd hate to put it off another whole year. That's what I'm trying to get at is how can we push
everything and get people whether it's, you know, Mr. Dewey here who's been kind enough to to uh volunteer and have some people say we're going to fund raise and if we got to go to the engineering people and say we want to have this done. I mean to me we need to give people a deadline. We can't just say
well we want to apply for the grant but now it's not going to happen and we're now a whole another year down the line. >> So say if we're keep talking 1a that tells me it's the playground that we'd be applying for. Is that correct? Incorrect.
Correct. >> So, >> because then we would need the playground company. So, in this case, it's the playground company that has to do all the design work that we would need to run through all of our revisions. And mind you, we're only meeting three times before it comes due unless
we add in additional meetings. >> And you're saying the council has to play a role in that as well. Like, we can't just go and get the designs and push through for the grant. like this isn't something >> the playground company we would likely not need permission from council on the
front end because that work doesn't like they do that work complimentary whereas engineering I has a cost to it and so I would need that cost approved on the front end >> well the first thing you need is the money you need the money right before
you can even apply for the DNR grant >> we would definitely have to have the matching funds But that's what I'm getting at is you can't say the first thing we need the money and then we're so we're waiting three months to raise the money, >> right? >> And then >> they all have to happen simultaneously >> for the grant. What I'm saying is why
don't we get the engineering done? Why don't we tell the fundraising people here's the deadline by March 1st? We need some money raised and why don't we tell the council that we want to commit to this and then if you get into March and you find out you don't have the money, you can always not apply for the
grant. But if we wait I I I'm just this is what I'm trying to to point out is if we wait to say we got to have all this stuff in place then we're then we're past the March first March 31st deadline. If we say March 1st is the deadline and we got to have the money.
So we go to Ron and his group and say get us the money raised please. And they say they can do that and we tell the council we got to order the specs at this December meeting. This has to be done December. And I talked to the mayor about that uh earlier this week. So,
they need to get that on the agenda and get the the engineering company do the specs so that by March 1st, you're ready to go with writing this grant. >> Yeah. And I >> Well, can I interrupt just just one more
thing? And and Bruce, you know, we're talking about the fundraising, which which is awesome that Ron is, you know, starting that fundraising committee. We what what if we ask we've been talking about asking the city council to release the funds to do the matching
grant. So then we would have the funds up front. >> Yeah. Then you won't get the fundraising. >> Oh yeah, we will. We will get the fundraising. >> People know that the city's already committed 300,000. >> No, I disagree with that. I totally disagree with that. But that's just
that's just my opinion. And we have Ron here. I mean, he can probably voice that, but if if this whole entire time we've been trying to get the matching funds, the city council has been speaking that we there's there there might be an opportunity if we ask for a certain amount and we had a plan that
that they would they would consider doing they would consider releasing some of the funding. So, right there would be the money for a matching grant for the DNR grant. But >> what I don't know is with timeline and ability to execute this
So that's one caveat that I don't have because our timeline was a proposal for January. >> I can address that question right now. If width tells you it takes more than 30 days, we need to find a different engineering firm because I talked to an engineer today for another city government who told me if you want the
level what you need because we don't need the whole in-depth thing to get a a cost, we can do that in 30 days. >> Right. Well, what I'm saying is my next meeting that's scheduled with them to even talk about the scope for the proposal that council motioned us to do in November, my meeting with them is
December 15th is when we have it on the schedule. >> Yeah. Cuz to everyone's point, you know, going back a couple of years now, this was to engineer the entirety of the park, but the estimated cost was 10% of
the project. So 10% of 10 million >> was a significant amount. And so city council came back to us and said, "Well, we want to see before we give money to get have things engineered, we want to see the planning commission be able to
raise some funds before we just hand out the money to get it engineered." And so that's when we started our fundraising efforts. Now we're here today. We haven't raised much. Um, so I can't imagine the engineering for just phase 1A would be
very significant, but it would be a question on how much it would actually cost and if we are actually able to either a use the money that we have to do the engineering or if the city's willing to fund at least one a and then
we can have more discussions on, you know, are we able to meet timelines? Um because I know the city was not able or willing to fund the engineer as of couple years ago because we just didn't
have enough initiative upfront from a fundraising standpoint. >> So for for timeline's sake, everything for this December council meeting is due on Tuesday. So I'm not going to have a proposal from the engineer for December. The earliest I will have a proposal is
for the January council meeting. What council directed us in November was to work on phasing and some value engineering is what I heard from it. So that's what I plan to talk to with
Seth about. Um not that these other conversations don't matter and I totally get time is of the essence on these things. Um but in terms of timeline that's how I'm kind of seeing it play out.
that any proposal from Woods would not be until January for council to review. >> Again, a playground is different because we don't have a cost for playground design. >> Does the council need to give initiative to get a quote from Windsth?
>> No. Could we have them start working on at least a quote and then I would never hold you to it, but if there happened to be a special council meeting that we can, you know, sneak that on opposed to waiting for the next regular city council meeting. I just
know with everything going on within the city right now. I'm assuming there's going to be some special council meetings. >> Can we have this included in the scope of work? Um, yes. So, if we want to try and get engineering, say for pickle ball or
whatever subsequent engineering would need be needed for the playground portion, >> yeah, >> I can ask for that on the proposal. Um, again, it wouldn't come until January. And that doesn't mean that funding and
any sort of ask to city council or fundraising committee can't be happening simultaneously. They can all happen concurrently. >> Mhm. But I think we can probably come to a conclusion on what phasing we want to happen
and then try to go from there and try to at least try to push for funds. And I don't know from a fundraising standpoint, you know, what's realistic before before March, but from a engineering
standpoint, I think it might be possible or at least worth the effort to try. So to bring this back to priority and phasing and time like timelinewise. So with
when do you think you'd want certain elements constructed? Cuz I'm what I'm hearing is that playground is A, pickle ball is B, and I'll say the hockey the yellow box is C.
>> Mhm. um in the interim of C to do some repairs >> repairs for lighting most specifically. >> So you're talking about the repairs for
the hockey arena or the hockey the lights by the hockey. >> Yes. >> So was there a was there funding in that for with for the Lions to do to do that? >> Currently we have a fund that we refer to as make nice for the ice. Yes. that has $120,000
in it earmarked four outdoor skating rinks. >> Would that apply to >> I would definitely track with that group, but I think that's exactly what it's intended for is the hockey rink and skating rink. So, if we have if those are our basic
three, we got three phasings, right? What would you want any of them happening the same year, different years? How does that layer on with the parking lot? So, you're thinking now construction mode of the park, not which ones do we want first. How does
construction work? And this is where what I'm trying to take back to Woods. >> Yeah. So, I don't know if if we're still act like if there's any chance at the DNR we have to use those funds within a year. Correct. But it starts in they award it in January or July.
>> July. And so you got one full construction. >> Okay. So you could you could do spring of of 27. So you could coordinate with the parking lot. Um I would say at this point in time,
regardless of the DNR grant, 2027 would be probably a good goal for the playground. It would give maybe, you know, fundraising groups a little bit of time. That's going to that it's not going to happen overnight. Um,
construction plans for this upcoming summer seems tight. I mean, we would all love to see things happen this summer. Don't get don't get me wrong, but I don't know how realistic that is. And if we're if the city's already going to be busting
up that that um asphalt parking lot, it might be a perfect time to do phase one. And it also gives us a little bit of time to maybe accomplish our goal for funding for phase 1 A. And by then we might be
able to do 1B because that gives us a little bit more time too. That would be I guess my timeline, but I don't know if I don't know. What are your guys' thoughts? I just don't know how
realistic 2026 is at this point in time. Yeah, Ron. Yep. Something to add. >> How's that? Okay. Um I've been thinking about it for quite a while, too. Um and the grant, this is the grant application
here. Uh it's 30 31 pages and it is pretty extensive. It'll take a while to do it. Um I'm not familiar with this kind of grant. I've not done them before, but I've done other DNR grants. Um, it's up here, so give me a minute to get
it out. Um, I think if we do, given the DNR grant is $350,000 if city council will designate $350,000 to phase 1A and B together. And I'll
explain to you why I'm thinking that. Um, Amber has been great for me to work with. She's been gone over uh the playground equipment and things with me several times. It appears like the equipment cost itself is about $1500 to $200,000.
And please correct me if if I'm wrong at all, Amber. Um, just the equipment itself is about $1500 to $200,000. >> Uh, I'd have to look. Um, >> I'm sorry. um the the playground things that the
kids play on the Yeah. >> Are you trying to get at what like if you different um material board in place or wood chips? >> No, I'm just talking about just just the the >> So yeah, I would break it playground. >> So one option is um one one component is
the surface covering. That's a big differential. Wood chips to put in place. That's probably the most significant cost differential. Then you have the >> 200,000 right on that >> upwards of depending on the square footage. >> It's huge. >> So then you have whatever then um work
like excavating, equipment removal, installation, things like that. That's probably the labor is a second component of it. And then Ron talking about just literally the play elements that is probably like 200,000. >> Yeah. Yeah. The play elements are like
200,000. But I've spoken with um an excavator already um and he's on the uh fire department and we've agreed that we can remove existing elements. You know, we could remove the existing concrete, the existing wood chips. Um and that would be at no cost to the city. So
there'd be a savings there. And that labor, as you mentioned before, Sherry, it can go towards the fulfillment of the grant requirement. Um, if we if we think of like pickle ball and the playground together and the costs vary wildly, I
know that. Um, but if we can apply for the grant from the DNR and if we can if we can count on like the 700,000, we might be able to do both of them for that, you know, right in that range. Um because like you mentioned, Bruce, um
when it comes to the the fundraising part of it, we need the plan too before we can request funds from folks. >> Y >> and so I don't think we could come up with the $350,000 by March 31st. You know, it's a guess on my part. So what
I'm thinking is if you can get the 350 from the city, 350 from DNR, and that's an if on the DNR, but you can't move forward on the grant without the 350 from the city. Um and then when it comes to like the pickle ball and things, um the excavator
um already mentioned that, you know, we can get the trees removed, we can get any stumps that need to come out, we can get those out, and there would be no cost at for that either, you know, so we could save quite a bit of money there. And then I've heard from um a person who spoke with the people at Cross Lake
where they were able to install their pickle ball and their tennis courts. Real reasonable, you know, um I mean really reasonable. We were thinking um here about $450,000, but that's really high compared to what they did theirs. >> The last four they did was $92,000,
>> right? So >> that was without the moving of the dirt, but that was 92 to put in four carts. And we've strategically kept that on the high end um just to help incorporate, you know, all the excavation, all the
tree removal, all the the amenities that we may want as well as the option maybe to figure out what surface material we'd like. >> Right? So, this is where if we can come up with a plan and and a dollar amount
um like if the the installation company can configure, okay, if we just come in and install this, you know, if the area is already prepped and all we have to do is some minor prep work, you know, we might be able to get it down to the the 700,000 or so, you know, to do both, you know, it's uh it's it's doable, I think.
>> Um >> but we can't move forward uh with the DNR grant application until we have the $350,000, >> right? as >> and it's my understanding that city council has spoken about 500,000. So if they contributed 500 and we can get 350
from DNR, you know, you've got 850 right there. 850,000. So that might cover both A and B. >> Say that again about the 500. What what did the council say about 500? >> That was just a number that was tossed out there. >> Yeah. >> The council hasn't confirmed anything. I
guess my question, and this is me being naive to what the city council's budget is, but I know the budget's already been established for 20126. Levy's already been established. Does the city have $350,000 to designate
towards parks? I mean, we can say the city should give us 350, but it's not that easy. like is the city capable of grabbing from a bucket and providing parks and wreck $350,000 because if they
can't then this whole discussion is mute. >> We never we don't know until we ask for it. >> They there was discussions and they've looked at different funds not coming out of like the this next 2026 levy but out of reserves >> um wicker fund >> spirits
>> different things like that. Um, so it has not been indicated which fund or funds it would or could come out of. Um, and they have not come to consensus on an amount either. So 500 was just kind of tossed out there. >> And I know like yeah, you you'll never
know until you ask. But I do know working in public government that once a budget is established 350 is a big number to just pull. >> Yes. So it's always been about coming from reserve funds. >> Yeah. However, if we ask for it, you
know, because I I Jennifer was in here and she had mentioned, you know, if if and it was at the last meeting, if let us know how much you need, you know, you got to know how much you need, have if you have it, you have to have a plan and then you you ask for it. So, but if
we don't bring that to city council, we're not going to it's not going to we're not going to know if it's going to if they're going to give it for the park or not. >> But we got to word it so that it's matched to the DNR grant. You know, >> and I think I think if
>> the goal for this for this group and or really for you is by the Jan well to at least reach out to Win Seth and say, "Hey, can we start the process to look at what this is going to take to engineer and a price to go along with
that so we can start to present so we can hopefully present to the city council as soon as possible. >> They were um at the November meeting. So, they heard the motion made by city council. I've spoken to them about um
our December 15th meeting that is scheduled to have discussion helping solidify the scope of work that they would then use to input in a proposal for January. Um at that time, they didn't have any concerns about that timeline or plan. So that that's kind of what my whole
discussion that I started out with Paul is to me the engineering has to I mean Ron's group needs that if they're fundraising. We need it for the DNR with the city needs to know we're at. So, I don't know, Maggie, what the process is here, but this, you know, you don't have
to have a formal proposal in my mind to go to the city council on December 18th and say authorize x amount of dollars up to x amount of dollars to do the to do the engineering report. And if the city in fact is saying there's some money to
be able to transfer to the parks for this, that can be part of it. the city can say we can take dollars out of reserve. It doesn't have to come out of the budget. It can come out of the reserve funds to say do we need $25,000 and that's going to do us the engineering study or get us there. Yeah.
>> Then authorize that and then then when Amber meets and and Witz has come back and says it's going to take us and we can start. I mean to me that's the process that should get started. I don't that's why I'm concerned we're waiting till we get all these ducks in a row before we get the engineering done. I'd
say get the engineering going. The second piece that I would just make a a a pitch to you guys on or a comment on is and Sherry, I'm if you and Ron can say the city's going to put in money and we're still going to be able to go out
and raise fund raise, fantastic. I'm all for that. I'm not trying to be a negative Nelly here. I'm just giving you my experience of having gone through this. When the city commits money and then you go raise funds, people in my experience will say, "Well, the city's
already committed the dollars, so why do we need to put in money for fundraising?" What? But just let me finish here. And in the transferring from the I do want to say that the transferring from the reserves is kind of like this is free money. What is not?
Because what we're missing here is, you know, is the parking lot going to have to be paid for out of park funds? Is the there's upgrades that need to be done in the community center? I can tell you right now that if if I was fundraising, I could walk into a
business and say, "Hey, we're going to have this nice playground. There's a piece of equipment we'd like you to sponsor. We're going to go to somebody and say, "We got pickle ball courts." Because I've done that. And I've been on the pickle ball fundraising and the playground fundraising in in in Detroit Lakes. Those are great things to fund
raise for and people are very generous with their money. If I go into a business say we need to upgrade, we need 200,000 to upgrade the community center. Will you fund raise where you donate for that? I can tell you what the answer is going to be. No. So if the city if the
city council has 300 and some thousand dollars to transfer, we're going to need those dollars. Otherwise, those costs are going to be on the property tax role. And if all of us, I know Ron and I have talked, people are worried about property taxes. Well, I guarantee you
that if you don't pay for those out of reserve dollars, that's going to be on the property tax role. And then the and I'm I'm taking a little bit of time here, but my last piece is we're making the assumption that the $350,000 from the DNR is a given. What about if it
doesn't happen? What about if they say no? Or what if they only say it's only $150,000? Then what? >> Then I then I think we would go with just just bring the phase one uh A and B and then bring it back just to phase one
A. You know, you'd have to drop off something that if you don't get the DNR grant. >> Well, there you go. There. That would be if you did that, you could definitely raise money in the community for pickleball courts >> and not the playground. Well, >> playground first. That's the playground
first. There's lots of interest. >> People would be really excited about about raising money for the pickle ball courts. >> Definitely. >> And as Amber and I have spoken about, we we can do the um the playground part before the parking lot is done, you
know. Um so my thought is realistically we could do the playground in 2026. That's my my thought. I I think it's doable. I mean, the community, they're they're pretty uh this excavator, he's he's ready to go. He's got the equipment, and I even have the
equipment. You know, we've got a mini excavator and a couple of skid steers. I mean, I could do it myself with with some extra help from from some guys from the fire department. You know, we just need a couple of rolloff dumpsters out there and, you know, some some guys with wrenches and and we can get it done. You
know, I've got a landscaping background. Um, I had a landscaping company for a few years and I put up boulder walls and taken down cement and and uh keystone walls and cobblestone sidewalks and timber sidewalks and steps. So, I have quite a landscaping background, too.
>> Thanks, Ron. Um, another idea that I've heard tossed around um over the last couple of months is to ask the city for the entirety of the playground. Get going on the playground. no grants,
nothing else. Get rolling on that. And that would then maybe allow the fundraising committee to dedicate their entirety of their energies towards pickle ball, whether they raise the whole thing or go for grant funds and
then use that um to then implement the pickle ball portion of it. >> So, that's an alternative way of looking at it that I've heard proposed as well. That sounds more immediate. >> It's
I'm struggling with I just don't know where city council is at with this and I don't understand and I don't understand where the budget is for something like this.
And so it's like yeah, do we do we do engineering which I agree with and do we do it one step at a time or if or if we ask for the whole thing? Does that and they say no? Does that push us down the road? because I like
that plan. But does that lose us another month if we present that in January and they say no and then we're back to okay, let's go back to getting engineering or can we do them both at the same time? Um, yeah, I'm at I'm I'm at a little bit of loss not knowing where city council
is right now, where our budget is and what what is some give and take out of that budget. Yeah, it's a >> possible >> that there's so many multiple layers and directions that this is all coming from.
>> When I asked city council in November what they'd like the parks commission to work on, the motion was for us to work on phasing and coordinate that with WIDS and get some value engineering. That's what I took away from the motion.
I might be missing some of the exact verbiage of that. Um, but that's the direction that they gave us to work on in November. Yes, there's these other conversations going on in terms of funding, but in terms of what they asked us to work on
and get a proposal for was that so not that we not that there's not more that we can't add to it, but that's the direction that council has currently given. Well, I I definitely think moving forward with engineering
>> on any of the plans moving forward is maybe of the most importance right now. If we can at least push that through as quick as possible and then I don't know if at the same time we ask the council for the playground funds for the entirety of the playground. We
already have Did you say we have about 250 in our playground reserve fund? It's about 200 and that's for the entirety of the park system. >> Oh, not just the playground. >> No. Gotcha. >> So Maggie,
is there a way to get this on the agenda December 18th to ask the council to authorize up to a certain amount of dollars for engineering? Yeah, >> we would need a motion from you guys for
what what exactly do you want us to ask council for? Is it engineering? Is it funds to be transferred? Is it both? That's what we're trying to figure out tonight. What's our recommendation to city council?
>> Yeah. And I don't I I don't know the level of engineering too that like winth is naturally gonna overengineer it out of liability sake. Like I watched Cross Lake go through theirs and they didn't have any engineering. Um TJ pretty much just said this is what I
want and he was the project manager. I would never expect like him or anybody else to do that. But you know how how much engineering do we need? How much detail do we need to move forward? >> I don't think we want a lot right now
because if the plan's going to change, we don't want to >> do we ever need a lot. I mean, the the patio the h the 1C probably needs a lot of engineering because there's a lot of in infrastructure underground in there's lighting, there's water lines, there's,
you know, a lot there's plumbing, there's everything. Pickle ball. Um, I mean maybe some electrical, but a playground, not a ton of infrastructure. >> And if you go for the grant, it's going to require certain things that if we pay for out of our reserves, may not be as
may not be required. >> Yeah. So, yeah. What would be a good motion to at least get us rolling on the end? >> Can I just reaffirm that A is playground, B is pickle ball, C is hockey. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Agreed.
So where does the communities I mean I was >> community center is a separate budget. So simultaneously while this is going on I'm also getting quotes for um the work in the community center as well but that is out of a separate budget and a separate capital reserve.
Not to say projectwise it doesn't make sense to combine some of these things in the parking lot and the patio. So, could we ask for just like a lump sum and say that it's including the engineering if we're going to do the parks? And I think we're kind of all in agreement
that the park's going to be the phase one a pickle ball phase B in phase one. But if we just ask for a lump sum and then just include the engineering costs in that and say that we that needs to that needs to be going we need that
motion right away or we need to we need that engineering to look at the park and the and the pickle ball. Just do the park and the pickle ball for the engineering. Would that make it every make it more simple? If you wait if you wait for the funds
from council for engineering then the engineering is not getting done before the grant deadline. >> Yeah. >> So we have to dedicate the money. >> Okay. >> Yeah. We have to do it. >> Okay. >> If we want it done. >> Okay. >> Am I correct in saying that? >> Yeah.
>> So we can't we can't include that in our ask >> the engineering. >> Well, and if it's just the playground again, the playground company does the bulk of the design work. where engineering comes in is picking like the container location, right? But in terms of
>> the height, the elevation of it and they would probably place the the curb or whatever. >> Well, there's a little bit of coordination between the two. Um, but the playground companies doing the bulk of like the actual playground design or what's coming into play is exactly what
Paul was saying like locating it within the park and then subsequent elevations and things like that. kind of the grading utilities. >> Just to address what you what we were talking about the engineering and and I know Ron mentioned, you know, you have people that are willing to come in and
excavate and take care of things. So, and again, I I I apologize because I always come back to Detroit Lakes because that's what I'm familiar with. And we did a playground very similar to this in Detroit Lakes. The city was the general contractor. So what that happens, what that takes away for the
engineering and I talked to the engineer today for that project and all they did was a very basic engineering design like you said elevation kind of putting things together so that the city and the people that were working on it including the playground
equipment could get that to the city. But the city acted as a general contractor. where you have to have the more detailed specs is if you're saying we're going to go out and bid this to a couple of general contractors and so we need some exact specs and we need to have that put together and then you you
so that's going to take a lot more work and a lot more cost but if all we're asking for is kind of lay this out and the city is going to be in charge which I would hope they would be because that saves a lot of cost then you should be able to get this done in as the engineer
told me today within 30 days. Yeah, because really it's just a sur I mean there's maybe a little bit more than just a survey, but that's the majority of it is really just getting it surveyed. And it's already been surveyed, right, that park >> the existing conditions. Yes.
>> Exist. So it wouldn't take much to take an existing survey and take that playground and move it. And they might have to do a couple of, you know, pins for corners. And I would think that they should be able
to move that along pretty quick. >> Yeah. And just without having this conversation with Woods, I mean, we've had certain conversations a while ago when they were doing existing conditions as well as kind of dialogue about the shape and movement of the playground to
go around the warming house. Um I beyond that I don't know where they're at and what they're thinking. Is David Reese the engineer? >> Yes. >> And is is Wit Seth I mean I just in
following some of the stuff that I was reading are they are they able to handle this? Are they able to get on this? I mean that that from what I understand is an issue with them. >> Well, we have multiple projects in the works. This isn't the only thing that they're doing. So um that's in part
having that communication, that dialogue to understand the timeline, the capacities um that we're clear on our timeline that their understanding of the expectations and what they can execute. Um we just that's >> has been scheduled for December 15th.
>> Are we locked into them for as a engineering firm to do this? Uh well that's I guess I'll say the the entirety of the project maybe not like if you once you get into the hockey rink. I mean that's a lot of architectural renderings and things like
that. So that's a whole different story. >> That's a ways away. >> And I could be wrong but wouldn't you have to put it out to bid if you went with another engineering firm? >> Likely potent. I'm not sure pro. We probably bought an RFP.
Um would likely be best practice. Um >> because the city itself can hire it would have to they could hire another engineer but it would have to be like >> go through. >> So right now I'm just going back to the
motion. I was the motion was to work with with Seth. >> Yeah. And I >> on a proposal. So, like I'm supposed to work with them to get a proposal about phasing construction, figuring some of this out, some value engineering to get that preliminary kind of grading is what
I'm hearing. Kind of that basic ground site plan. >> Yeah. Well, I think Windset is a great reputable company in the area. So, I don't see why we don't give them a shot and at least try to work with them to to get a plan together as quick as
possible. If we can make a motion tonight, sounds like there's a chance we can get it on December 18th, city council meeting. We just have to come up with the right motion. And the funds is I don't I don't know if it's going to be
5,000 or 50,000. That's Yeah. So, I don't know how to word that motion to where city council can allow us to move forward. >> Yeah. So, I hate to belabor this, but isn't there an exception? You can have a
quote for city for professional services, not necessarily an RFP. >> If we >> Well, if you're going out to do engineering services, you don't necessarily need to have an RFP if it's for professional services for a certain
dollar amount. >> Yeah. in you still need a quote. >> Yes, you still need a quote. Um, doesn't necessarily have to be an RFP pending the kind of dollar value. Would would
the council go for can we can we move forward with Windsth putting together engineered the necessary engineered plans at an hour did they charge us an hourly
rate at an hourly rate of >> not to exceed um yeah put >> for reference and maybe this might help or not I'm not sure when we got their proposal to get the services is to help write the grant the last time and that included assisting me with some of the
environmental reviews that needed to happen. That proposal I think was upwards of 24,000 which we did not spend all of that because we did not complete the grant and we left it in there. I wasn't sure what level of support I was going to
need on environmental reviews. Yeah. I don't know. Do we say hourly rate at per proposal and then cap it at to stop at a certain dollar amount and stop at 25,000 or >> Well, okay. Let me ask you this. What do
you want to ask Wood Seth to include in their scope of work? >> The minimal requirements to >> I don't I don't know what this DNR grant requires. I haven't personally looked at it, but if that would give us an outline
of the minimal requirements. >> Well, it has like Yeah, there's several sections on environmental reviews and then there's specific plans depending on what you're asking for. So, I'd say grant aside, what do you think is our first step to help
figure this out? What are we are we asking for like grading and elevation or you know um are there any other minimal requirements? So we're not we're not we're not building the hockey rink right now. That's not what we're doing. >> So it would be it' be the engineering
for just the playground. Do they already have some of the engineering done for that? Well, no. They wouldn't. I was going to say for the parking lot, but it would really just be the engineering for the playground within the master plan. And that's really it. You know, that'll
get us started and that'll get us should give us enough maybe and I'm I'm I'm saying maybe because I haven't read the DNR grant, but enough to help us move forward with the DNR grant if that's a possibility still. it would help our fundraising committee um at least be
able to hopefully move forward with that side of things. Tell me if I'm misspeaking, but >> No, you're you're right on. I think we just have to word it. >> I think that >> Well, they're going to be the experts in this. We don't need to figure it out. I'm just trying to understand what level
>> we're looking for in what areas. >> Yeah. >> Get us off the ground. fix fix the ground so we can build on top of it. >> Yeah. And really I just I don't know if we need anything much more than a survey and to plop that proposed playground
area on a survey with this is the new proposed location. you know, they might need to have a couple of highlighted details of, hey, you know, the curb around the playground's going to be 6 in wide with
a radius or whatever. And um but then the playground company can take it from there. So, I don't know if the first step should actually be going to David Reese or somebody at Windsets and saying, "Hey, can I just, you know, this
is what we want. Is there a way to get an approximate estimate on the number of hours something like this is going to take? Because then they might say, "Yeah, this is just going to require survey and we can we already have the survey of the park. So, it's just taking that. It's taking the proposal. It's plug it's
plugging it in and we can put we already have a curb detail in our library. It's going to take us 50 hours at $180 an hour and you know won't be that easy. But >> um >> so so if if we can put it on the agenda
for December 18th, Maggie and so you meet on with them on December 15th, you should be able to get a quote out of them. And if they can't give you a quote, you can always pull it off the agenda or defer it on December 18th. But at least you got it on what I'm concerned about is we don't get it on
the agenda for this council meeting. >> Yeah, >> that's that's my whole point here. Let's get it on the council meeting agenda and then you can always back it off or we don't have the information. Or maybe you meet with them on December 15th and they say, "Yeah, we can do exactly what you're suggesting, Paul, for 10 grand."
Well, then you got you got a number. >> Yep. >> Then you got a number. So, are we asking for engineering only or are you asking for funds transfer? >> I would say both. >> Do we hit them with both? >> Yeah, with both.
>> I'm really not trying to be a super naysayer here. Um, but I am out of the office all next week, so I'm not going to be coordinating with Woods. Any information they would provide will be last minute to council. Um, it would not make the packet.
So, just keeping that in mind that council is not going to have much time to review. >> Does David attend the city council meetings? >> Yes, he will be present. So, we can always put it as an agenda item, but I'm saying the likelihood of having any materials for them to review ahead of
making a decision is probably pretty slim. then would uh deferred and and this is all without talking to Winds. So I do not know what they're where they're at on any of this. >> So it seems clear that we're all in
favor of making a motion to have this added to the agenda. Do we all does anything need to be moved to have someone approach Smith thing about >> No. If you guys make a motion to get, however you make this motion something
for the council meeting, I will get to working on that. >> Yeah. Um, and by no means do I want to overstop here just because I know you're going to be out all of next week. Is there any chance that I'd be able to reach out to David or is that not a good
procedure? >> Um, I think between I will CC Maggie and I can tag team it for sure. >> Okay. And I don't want to put extra pressure on you too by by saying that. I just thought, well, if you're gone and if it would >> No, I certainly appreciate that. Trying to figure out a way to get this going
and moving, but I can certainly fire off an email first thing in the morning or even before I leave tonight to >> um get their wheels spinning and probably get a phone call scheduled or something. Um,
>> and I can call you, >> get them in on a Zoom call. >> You don't find Maggie. Um, so yes, I think in hearing this we can get something on the agenda with whatever motion you make tonight. That's not the issue. Making the agenda timeline isn't
the issue here. Is getting any subsequent information to support the agenda item is the timeline in question. >> Yeah. >> Does somebody want to make a motion? >> Well, before we make the motion, are we making a motion? Are these two are we moving for two separate agenda items or
one agenda item? If you're asking for a funds transfer, that would be a second. >> So, we need two >> motion. Two motions. >> Motions. >> So, maybe let's just keep on the engineering train thought train of thought right now and then you guys can have a funds. >> Yeah. And do we make the motion on the
assumption that Windsth will come through with a uh at least a preliminary number that we can roll with or do we make a mo try to make a motion to satisfy council to still let us move forward without a conf number?
>> Well, >> I wish Mark was here. I >> I think the number comes out of out of the meeting. I guess to me the motion is as simple as we ask the city council to uh uh consider an engineering report on the December 18th council meeting uh
subject to with Seth getting us a quote on that and um you know that's the motion and then I would follow up with that to say if they can't get a quote well then then I guess it's not going to be on the agenda.
>> Yes, sir. Did you I mean I'll second if that's the if that's the motion. >> Maggie, did you get that? >> Okay. I um my basic is to recommend to the city council to move forward with the playground engineering as the
footprint sits in the park master plan. >> Perfect. That's exactly what I said. >> That's what I heard. I second uh one bit of input. Um, Amber, did we we had talked about change uh turning the playground 90 degrees.
>> Yeah. So, when I when I'll clarify when I hear you say in the master plan footprint, that means we will make an adjustment to our existing container to accommodate a future plan. >> That's what I hear when I say master plan footprint. Yes. Not necessarily the
orange box. >> Correct. >> Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, because we still hasn't haven't finalized playground designs and >> Yes. So, that's what I hear when I hear you say master plan footprint. >> Yes. >> And I think that's what the engineering
does is part of that is >> gives you the sense of what you can do. >> Yeah. >> Okay. We have a motion >> and a second. >> And a second. >> So then we would need a vote. Cherry, you want to run the vote? >> Um, sorry. I went away for a second.
What do we need? >> A vote. You have a motion. >> Okay. Do we have a motion >> and a second? And so we just need a vote. >> Second. >> I'm sorry. >> All in favor? >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> opposed. >> Opposed. >> Carried.
>> Motion carried. >> Okay. So second discussion is if you and to what amount would you recommend to city council for a funds transfer?
>> Are you asking for a dollar amount? >> Well, I'm asking if this is the discussion you want to have. >> U discussion >> with the amount of money that we currently have the 40,000 approximately. Some of that is designated to specific things. Correct. Correct.
>> Is any of that >> Could we use some of that for the DNR grant if it's designated for the playground? >> Yes. >> I'm Yeah, because I'm assuming most of it's either playground. Well, I shouldn't assume, but I'm going to
assume it's pickle ball. >> Yeah, most of it wasn't earmarked, but there are some that are. >> Okay. So, we could use some of that. towards the grant. Um, do we ask for the full just playground
as a whole or do we just try to go for the grant? Okay. Can I throw out a few numbers? So, the grant has a max amount of 350,000. The playground budget that we've utilized and the budget that was used for the initial playground design was
690,000. And that's with the poured >> poured in place, >> the high end. Yep. >> And then again, when I'm looking at the boxes here, does that count the sidewalks around it? Does that count the trees around it? Not just the playground, but everything within to get
to the playground to support the playground or not. So, that's how I kind of look at the boxes on the screen. Mhm. >> So, am I right in saying kind of the three options we're considering asking for from the city council are 350,000 for the grant,
uh a uh a maximum of 500,000 just because that's a number that's been thrown out or an unspecified amount. Are those kind of the options we're considering? >> I think you'd want to ask for a very specific amount. So whether you want to set that you know
yeah specific amount of 350,000 would be the matching number they did throw away around 500. But if we at least ask for the 350 at
least we know they know exactly where it's going to go. They're more apt to say yes on that. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think if we came to them at least with a plan of it's going to go toward, you know, the goal would be maybe 350. So, we going to apply for this DNR grant.
Although, I'm backtracking because if we don't get the DNR grant, then we have this 350,000 and we're still at a place where we can't get anything. But it's but it's dirt five. You'd at least be able to assuming
you know I also have fundraised for playgrounds and community builds, the sidewalks, the curbs, the if we go with the wood chips, the the demolition, those are the easy things to get community involved with. The equipment
obviously no. Um the board and place you can't, but the other things are easier to go out and fund raise for. Um, so yeah, maybe five. Ask for five. >> That way we can actually move forward. If they do give it to us, we for sure
can hit the ground running with phase one. I mean, we might not >> Yeah, we might not be able to get the 690, but that was like the top top end >> and we still might be able to >> utilize some funds if we wanted to
>> um add on. and five came from the council. You know, we didn't come up with that number. Yeah, that's right. So, >> what do you think, Bruce? >> Well, I'd prefer to wait to ask for the number until we get the engineering report, >> personally. And also, I'd prefer to wait
until, again, I repeating myself, but I'd prefer to wait until we see where the fundraising's going. But I'll support whatever whatever you guys decide, I'll support. But I'm just I don't want to sound negative or skeptical, but I'm I really I really
think you need to have some incentive to people to say we we have this chance to get $350,000 DNR grant. What can you do to help us get there? whether it's the Lions making a significant donation, which I've heard that they're willing to do, and whether there's other people
that are willing to step up. But, uh, the more you can get in fundraising, the more than the project you you can I mean, if if we're fortunate enough to get a lot of dollars, then great. We get the we get two phases done. You know, that's I think Ron mentioned that
earlier. I mean, >> you know, if but that's I'll support whatever you guys want to do. >> Might I make another suggestion based on that? If you guys want to hear in December what council decides this, you know, if you're going if you're leaning towards 500,000 and maybe not the DNR
grant, then the timing is not as significant. >> Yeah. >> If you're looking for the 350 to match the DNR grant, the timing is much more significant. Mhm. >> That's right. >> So, keeping that in mind, we don't if it's kind of to fund the playground in
its entirety without the DNR grant, there's other grants that we can add on. >> Yeah. >> To enhance that. Um, so I'm maybe bringing up a timeline depending on what funds you ask for. >> Yeah. So you're saying whether you're
saying whether we should ask for the 350 or the 500,000 for a matching DNR grant or just ask the city council for 500,000. >> I'm saying if you think you're going to utilize if we want to utilize matching if we want to utilize the funds for the
DNR grant, time is of the essence. If you think that this is the year that we need to apply for the playground, assuming that the playground company can get us all of our revisions done close enough by March,
if if they've got a 600 or $500,000 playground coming in, they'll get it done. >> I know, but we need to be decisive. >> Yeah. And to your point, uh, where I'm struggling with outside funding and we
have been saying for years and years what it takes in this community as a group like yours to go out and create a committee because we as planning parks and rec members, we can't fundra, which is really frustrating. We can't go to businesses. You're exactly what I need
or we have been wanting. So, I commend you. But people hate fundraising. Nobody likes Nobody likes fundraising. Like your committee might fizzle out. Like there's a chance that it's not successful. And I don't think it, you
know, that's being negative, but I also don't want to rely on Ron's effort and get six months down the road and a year down the road
and be like, "Oh, shoot." Like, we're now in the same spot. um >> and not have asked the council for at least a transfer. And I don't know if the
transfer is the right time December if we push it off a little bit. I I would feel maybe a little bit better with some engineered plans in hand. Um, but yeah, but fundraising could go extremely well and
we could have a park, you know. It's just it's hard. I don't know. This is I don't know the best answer. I think I guess ultimately I would maybe hold off on hitting council with both things on one
meeting and at least waiting till January for maybe the transfer and maybe by then we'd have some engineered plans. >> Will you be able to get the DNR grant by that time? That's time is if time is of the essence January might be too late.
Well, more so what's of the ess like we don't have to have the money like we can commit the money at any point, right, for the DNR grant um leading up to it. I don't have to have the fund actually transferred, >> right? >> You know, um >> it just needs >> what's more timely, what's going to take
way more time is any planning efforts that have to be done to write a grant. >> It's not a small grant and it does have requirements. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You don't need the money until you don't need >> We just have to have the money if it's
coming from city funds. We just need to have >> a commitment from council by by March 31st >> approval from council by then. >> But why why not wait? What do you guys think? Do we wait till January or should we >> I would I would go for it now, but that's just my opinion.
>> Yeah. off of your last comment. I mean, you seemed hesitant to ask for a transfer. >> Well, my hesitant isn't to ask for the I mean, I'm I'm with Cherry here. I if we're going to ask for the money, let's ask for it now. My hesitancy is I'm
saying I don't know that you incentivize the fundraising people by getting the city commit to. That's my hesitancy. Yeah. >> But in but in the sense of >> being a team player here and wanting to move this forward, I'm with Sherry. If we're going to ask for the money, then I
I would might I would probably make a motion similar to doesn't have to be exact dollar amount. Something like uh per uh uh you know, per the engineering report, we request that the city council authorize money, enough money to match
the dollars needed to get the playground uh applied for through a DNR grant by March 31st. So, if it comes in that that we need 600,000, then the city would come up with 300,000. If we only need 250,000 because of all the donated work that's
coming in, then it's only 250. So, >> the playground company is going to match our budget. If I tell them you get 250,000 to design the park, that's what they get to design the park. If the budget's 800,000, they get 800,000 to design it. So the budget is kind of
dictates what we're going to ask the playground company to design. I will say our next park commission meeting is going to be January 8th. >> Was it estimated on the park was 700,000, right? >> Yes.
>> If we forent the the wood chips and just did the wood chips, that's 500,000 right there. So now we know an ex kind of an estimated exact amount. >> It's not quite 500. I could probably pull up some of that more spec specific information if we
>> there'll still be a cost for the wood chips, right? So what that is in relation to how much will come off report in place like that's where the playground company will reevaluate and make a new >> update their budgets based on whatever number we want to give them. So could it
be done with for 500,000 a comparable playground without port in place? Probably. Okay, >> Ron would asking if we got a transfer of money to apply for a DNR grant, do you think that would significantly hurt your
fundraising efforts? I would go for the 500 if you can justify it to the council because then our fundraising efforts can be built for the 1B. you know, anything above the playground. Um I I don't know in regards
to the um amount of funds that we can obtain, you know, and and it's not my group either. I keep hearing my group. It's not my group. >> Sorry. You're just the you're the face of that. >> I'm just speaking of the fundraising group. >> Exactly. I don't I don't want anybody to get to get mad at me because I'm saying
it's my group. It ain't my group. I'm I'm all in to help, you know, and and if they'll have me, I'm here. Um, so >> I heard your group meant that you were going to write the check for whatever check. >> No, but my wife and I have agreed to um
contribute $5,000 to the project. >> And we were we were going to use that for our um uh website and for um advertisements, getting this information out to the public, you know, contacting the public, making them aware that we're
seeking donations, you know. Um, so that's uh and Bruce said he'd match that. So, just kidding, Bruce. Just kidding. Sherry said she'd double it. >> So, uh, so what I'm hearing is is you would continue fundraising efforts. The
committee would continue fundraising efforts and those efforts would be towards pickle ball. Am I right in that question? >> That's what I would highly recommend to them. Yes. And just to go back to Paul's question, do you feel like funds from
the council is to the park is going to undermine fundraising efforts towards pickle ball? >> I I don't think it would. I think it would show the public that we're all coming together and we've got a good base foundation and we're trying to
build on that. Um, if they know that the city's all in and the committee's all in, uh, city council's all in, and we've got this committee working together, we're all in, I think they're going to join much better. You know, it's easier to to, I guess, in my mind, to make the
snowball bigger than it is to start it. and and and we're and the committee is we're waiting for exactly what you folks are talking about tonight. You know, the plan so so we could um you know, share that with potential contributors, potential donor.
>> I feel the same way. I think it's going to be I think by asking for that and asking for the 500,000 and we start breaking ground, that's just going to make people more excited because we got to remember we we have pickle ball courts after that. Then we have hockey after that. So that's, you know, that's
a that's fundraising can't stop. You know, that's got to keep on going. You get one project done, people are going to get more excited. >> So, do we want to make a motion to ask for a transfer of funds to be designated
to a new playground within the master plan of the park? Is that right for $500,000 >> to go for a matching DNR grant or just
the $500,000? >> Well, the $500,000 if they keep it simple, >> it would be both. >> Okay. >> But 500 would be towards the playground and the DNR grant would be towards the playground >> because we would apply for the play the
DNR grant regardless if we got the funds. If we didn't end up getting the DNR grant, we could still use the $500 or $500,000. >> Well, the grant has to be written for exactly what you're going to use it for. >> Yeah, but you if we got 500, we'd use
350 for the matching funds still for the playground. >> That's great. >> But could we we could the 500,000 that we got from council? I don't know if >> So then are you asking for playground or like phase one?
>> Phase one phase one. So, so >> I see what you're saying. I don't know if council if if we ended up getting the DNR grant, we technically and we got 500, we'd be over the amount for the playground. I just don't know. >> You think we can get >> then we'd have to go back to the council
and say, can we transfer X amount of dollars over to the pickle ball because we're over >> Do you think we can get the playground we want for $500,000? I think >> because then I'd say skip the DNR grant in March.
>> Why? >> Well, why would why do we need it if we can get the playground we want for $500,000? >> Because it's $350,000 of >> Yeah. >> funding. >> And they know that it puts it they know that they if they put the money up then
we get the DNR grant and that's another 350,000. >> Yeah. We could probably >> That means we apply for the grant. Do you have to pay for the grant? >> I would say I wouldn't. >> So then I would make your motion that is for phase one. Phase one being
>> are you saying opposed to applying for the DNR grant next year and designating that towards something else? >> Not not as opposed. So okay >> I'm saying we have a timeline consider you for phase one. So you're including the pickle ball courts in >> Yes. So if you do get the grant and
there is an excess it can roll over, >> right? We had that conversation last time and that's and that's where I was at. >> Uh but now that we've been hearing more about the fundraising, part of me wants to just say we ask for it for the park for 1A. >> We do intend to use that for
um the grant as well. So let's say we get $500,000 and you do get the grant, you you're at it. >> Also, it doesn't have to be you could ask for 100,000, >> right? Whatever the number is. whatever the number >> and I just I just say you go for the
money and then whatever so if we if we don't get the grant we have $500,000 that's our park budget or whatever the number is that's our park budget it's 400 is 400 and we're not getting much of a park right um but that's your budget if you do get the grant then you can increase your park
budget and you have extra funds and I just I think we ask again we go back to the council and just ask for it to to be to so And what that does is it allows these guy, that committee, not Ron, but it it allows these guys to go and
specifically fund raise for the second half for 1B and we're not competing. So last time I felt like, oh, we just need to ask for the whole one phase one. Now I feel we just ask this is for the park and if we end up having in in six months
if we end up with excess let's just go back to the council and say we we have excess of what our budget was can we please use that for the next phase which I can't imagine that they wouldn't before. So, I I think if we're gonna make the motion,
we're making the motion to ask for whatever the number amount is for the park. >> Not phase one. >> Not the whole phase. That's what I think. Not the whole phase one, but phase 1 a for the park and then we go back again if we have extra.
>> I like that. >> So, we don't I'm I want to know I don't know you think over there. I told you I'd support whatever you guys. >> If you want to remember uh refer to Alyssa's email, she asked for the whole
playground budget is what she put in hers. >> Somebody ready to make a motion? >> Uh but what do we think that what dollar amount do we think the playground needs? Do we ask for the 690?
Do we ask for I think at a minimum the five >> and when we say the playground we're talking only what's within the container. >> Correct. >> Correct. Okay. >> Well,
yes. I suppose I was going to say with benches and but I would consider that part of the container >> work once I'm in it. Maybe some are, but it's >> as semantics here, but I just want to
try to be clear as to when we're setting our budget, how much is included within that. >> Sure. >> If it's the sidewalks leading to it, if it's >> donate, >> they do. >> Yeah. So that makes sense.
>> Shade structures, things like that in the container because then >> fundraisers can go all the So yes, in the container. >> Well, the number 500 was kind of been thrown out there a couple times.
500 to get the matching grant. That's 850,000. That's enough for park, isn't it? >> Well, for sure. But yes, again, it's if we if we get it, there's maybe some other grants, but
>> we don't. There's 500,000. Is that enough for park >> and fundraising? >> Fundraising. >> I mean, I watched we all watched the video, right? Mhm. >> There were comments in that meeting
about how lost could impact fundraising, right? We all saw that. So, does that factor into this conversation? So, what
you guys remember, right? >> Yeah. Well, you're looking to do something this year, >> Mike. >> Sorry, I'm normally the one yelling at people to turn their mic on. I think Lost is a conversation that would if it
gets through all of its processes, we're not voting on till next November. >> So, if you're looking to start projects and get momentum, lost is probably not part of this conversation today to apply for a grant in March. >> Thank you.
In my mind, the the sales tax was because we originally as a committee voted that we wanted the whole project done at the same time, including the the ice facility. And clearly, if you if
you're not going to do the ice facility now, I don't know that you need to have a sales tax for that. >> I guess I'm not following you. Um, I mean I don't And by the same time are you saying like actually I mean I don't know how
realistic it is to think that we're going to do everything at the same time. >> Correct. What I'm saying is when we took a vote earlier this year and and we as a committee said and I don't know if you were there at that meeting or not but we voted that we wanted to do the whole
project including the ice facility. >> Yeah. And the way to fund that would have been with the sales tax. But if we're coming back now and saying we're just going to do the uh playground in the pickle ball courts, then then in my mind, you don't need the sales tax. You're you're going to do it through
fundraising, fund transfers, and a DNR grant. >> Yeah. I guess I've been a proponent of the sales tax from the very beginning. I think we live in a tourist community and let >> I'll say the resolution for local option sales tax is written in a way that it
could include all elements of the park. Not necessarily that it has to be done at the same time. That would that could be discussed, but it talks about any of those elements could be included with that money collected. >> Yeah. And >> that's what it allows for. >> And with the sales tax, it would be over
the next 15 years. >> Yeah. So what the sales tax resolution read was 10 million over 15 years. Within that um it also includes all the interest payments for bonding. So it actually only gave a project budget based on our financial managers of about
7.3ish million >> and hockey the hockey facility and it's only going to go up as we don't install it. you know that was four three to five million somewhere in there just depending on you know how extensive we
want to get with it but I still think that I mean I think the sales tax is still a great revenue in my opinion >> so I think yeah and that's I think that's also that's another topic um so stay on this one the train of thought of do we want a funds transfer if so for
how much and when would you like to ask for 500. >> I'm going to make a motion for a transfer of funds for $500,000 to fund the phase 1A playground of the
master plan. Did I say 500,000? >> Yep. when >> and at the at the December 18th meeting. I mean, might as well work the bandit off.
>> Do you guys agree with that? >> I agree. >> I mean, that's the motion on the table. We don't have >> I seconds. >> All right. Discussion. >> Do we all understand? Do you all got that motion? >> Maggie, you got the motion. >> Hold on. We got to >> I'll just repeat what I wrote. Um Paul
is recommending to the city council to transfer 500,000 from the reserve funds to the park funds to phase 1A of the playground of the master plan in December.
>> And in that motion, I don't know if we want to mention some of it may go or some of it would go to the DNR grant. >> Well, you have to put it. could make a note that we're going to apply for it using these funds to help not we're not
doubling our money but to increase >> sending engineering stuff. >> I think you have to say something about matching for matching funds for the DNR grant. >> Well, we'd have to probably get a secondary resolution as to for the for the grant as a part of the grant. >> Yeah. So, we don't have to be affirmed
likely in another scenario. I don't know. What do you guys think? >> I think I can just make a note of it. >> No, >> we can amend it if it's too quick and we want to wait. >> I'm good with it. Okay. So, we have a motion and a second.
>> All those in favor? >> I >> I >> I. >> Any opposed? Motion carried. Okay. Do we have any other discussion on city park? >> We're good. Please say we're good.
>> What do we think about a splash pad? >> It's already been determined. It's not included. Thanks, Paul. Um, >> ask ask the public. >> That's what they want. >> Ask the public in the back what they think. >> No, don't ask because they'll tell you.
No. >> Awesome. Um, okay. So, moving on. Um, just want to note that the first Thursday in January is January 1st. So, we will not be having a meeting.
>> We will move our meeting to January 8th. January 8th will be the next meeting. Um, any other final discussion or comments? >> Thanks for all your hard work on all this. >> Yes. Back at you. Yes. Yes.
Otherwise, motion to adjurnn. I'll >> second. All right. Thank you very much.