##VIDEO ID:81aHF2PRrAs## e e e e e e e e are we ready whenever you're ready Joe go all right call the public works committee meeting of October 30th at five o'clock to order um I guess first thing on the agenda is the open form anybody here for open form okay second thing is to approve the minute minutes from the July meeting anybody have move or approval okay second okay all those in favor all right all right number three uh the wood Seth engineering presentation that bill all right I'm Excuse me good evening everyone um so what we're here to do is uh talk about the city of nisa's infrastructure and planning and uh basically discuss like said the sorry so what our objective here is um we're going to talk about the outline and the the introductions we're going to have like the key past projects the city strategic plan ordinances policies planning studies current projects future projects question and answers uh one thing we like to do though is uh kind of hold your questions till the end um and with we can talk about the questions at the end of the presentation so what we've done here is we've collaborated with the city of niswa to come up with a presentation team um includes some of the um staff here at Jenny and Tom bler um so my name is Bill Westerberg I'm the uh primary city engineer with the with woodf and we have other people that are in the room right now I don't know how we're gonna yeah all right we have Dave Reese who's sitting right there he's the the secondary city engineer um he's the vice president or one of the vice presidents at WTH and sitting next to him is Mark Howen he's the retired PE he was the formerly the primary city engineer for nisah and this just gives you a picture of the the Baer team of WTH so there's you know we have the bter team um if we need assistance we have 12 other offices that we can get people from in order to assist us with uh providing the services that Nisan needs this is just a little bit of planning and Engineering history basically how we got here current where we are and future of where we are going so then we're just going to talk about some of the key key pass projects and the first one to start off is the wastewater treatment facility and Mark Allen right thanks Bill you want run good evening uh say my name is Mark Callen you know worked with the city since 1996 on project so the original facility the Wastewater facility was constructed in ' 91 two primary ponds in a secondary Pond that had 37 Acres of irrigation area that was mly cut through the wood strips on bought an 80 or 70 acre parcel of the city purchased and the npca permitted capacity back at that time was 35 million gallons each year of treated uh Wastewater and then the city operated for about 20 years and um there was a need what you see there was a View kind of looking towards the U mainly to the West you can see the original strips cut through the woods for the irrigation system and then the uh City expanded uh their irrigation system to 45 Acres thinned out a lot of those trees and then uh off to the right of the screen they actually cut an open field area because the npca wanted to see a more open areas that such as peat lakes or Breezy Point was using to help with the uh you know with the irrigation also bile sols removed from cell number one it was a you operated for 20 years there was 7even eight feet of uh solids in the corners of that cell new diffusers were added the big thing then it rep permitted for an increased capacity from 35 million to a little over 45 million uh gallons spe as the city was growing and they were seeing uh flows approaching that mid-30s at that time then in uh the uh here 201819 uh the city went through a facility plan for their wastewater treatment facility uh a lot of the current flows were reviewed also Grand View had came in and started talking with planning in zoning on converting their G Garden course to uh large Condominiums homes plus a hotel and everything so that essentially led the city to uh up a facility PL submitted into the npca and um actually in the fall of 19 then uh the original facility plan was submitted for 65 million gallons per year an increase from 45 to 65 but after reviewing what Grand View is doing and seeing how they were advancing uh we had a council meeting here in the council reviewed options of 65 75 or 85 million gallons per year they selected 75 so the facility plan was amended uh submitted to the npca and then they uh went into the design that fall of 19 with that uh that design so then the treatment plant uh uh started in 20 and was completed in 21 uh secondary cell number four was added that's what you see in the background there behind the uh new aeration blower building that was constructed there to house the blowers plus Iration diffused rep grades were done in all the cells um but then the big thing the city Jenny worked for quite a while uh on property purchases the big thing was then expanding the irrigation area uh and that was expanded then from the you know a little over 45 acres in 2012 up to 75 acres here now that they've expanded and uh the permitted capacity is 75 million gallons per year uh currently flows you know as they were going through this were in the high four in 42 43 and that's where the flows are you know the this permitted capacity is intended to the serve the city for the next 20 to 25 years that's the planning period for the NPC a and then one of the I'll say caveats and working with Steve Stark the state hydrologist the city actually permit is unique that they're allowed to apply up to 85 million on their 75 acres in any given year just give staff a little flexibility in the future as your flows increase you might want to hold some flows one fall over to the next spring you're able to do that and actually apply at a heavier rate so that's the uh history of the wastewater treatment facility here over the last like I say currently the city's sitting very well with treatment capacity you know to handle stuff for the next 20 20 years the collection system uh again the original construction happened with the treatment plant and then 1991 for the gravity system and there were six or seven lift stations were constructed and then part of the history is you know the city felt what they could afford they built it got it going and then like lift station 7 on South ED the lake getting over to schaer corner there are a few other City projects that were done then in the 9395 five that kind of filled out the rest of the uh collection system that was done and then from really the next 20-year period there were several collection system expansions and new lift stations but those were all developer driven uh from the standpoint the city really took a step back and those all came through you know developers and then I say that facility plan happened because in 201819 Grand View came into the city with the planning zoning got their approvals and then their Five-Year Plan ended up taking two years they built that all out in 218 219 um so with that happening then the city looked at lift station three which serves Grand feew plus everything down around hold in the de Bay and you know that was on the radar but you know the expansion even cause that to come along faster to rebuild LIF Station 3 increase the capacity those pumps could only do about 160 165 gallons a minute we added 100 you know they now pump at 265 gallons per minute plus they have a larger Dam diameter to slow down the cycle times and the pumps and then with that also then you know Lift Station 3 is addressed but then lift station one is on the radar here for to be reconstructed here in the 2025 26 time frame uh that LT station is well shows its wear and te it's over 25 years old uh Parts already get plus the lift station pumps I just looked at this last weekend uh on their website guard dog and those pumps cycled here Saturday Sunday each pump anywhere between 90 and 101 times each day and this is kind of an average flow here not Peak Flows In Summer but not the slower flows whereas Lift Station 3 pumps cycle just 30 32 times per day onethird as much and like lift station 10 and eight 11 12 times a day just showing the starts and stops in those pumps was really taking their toll is just one of the items of that lift station so again lift station one here uh in the you know this is on Tom's plan uh for uh uh to reconstruct that lift station just to address its age and stuff so that's the history of the collection system so thank you for uh your attention on that I'm going turn it over to Jenny here for good evening uh thank you for the opportunity to participate in um this conversation tonight so Tom and I are going to um kind of share just a couple of high points with respect to the city's strategic plan ordinances and policies because a handful of things took place in 2020 to 2022 time frame that will really kind of set the stage for um the next handful of projects that WTH will be discussing so in 2021 the city council adopted a strategic plan and it was a way to link the comprehensive plan that 30,000 foot View Vision of the city and our annual Citywide budget and here were the goals uh for the Strategic plan really promoting best practices preserving our natural resources expanding business in an efficient purposeful manner um one example that Mark spoke about was that Grand View expansion and seeing that as a sort of the first step and a potential um you know domino effect into the future of what additional business expansion will the city see uh within you know throughout the undeveloped commercial area um maximizing services and revenues and really providing a road map that's that's kind of the Cornerstone of our strategic plan is to provide that road map to give us actionable items in the short and Midterm to link that again 30,000 foot view comprehensive plan with our annual Citywide budget and how can we you know Bridge those together so as I mentioned a couple things um were updated and reviewed by the council in 2020 um one of them was the sewer ordinance I know if you want to just speak to the goal for that one sure so mostly what we did with the updated to the Sewer ordinance was to allow for the variance and structure and more commercial development um we added metering to how we build and so we are now requiring all new commercial properties to to meter so that when we're building their sewer there's no argument you used it this is your sewer bill so that was probably the biggest thing to come out of that um the other thing we did is we took a look at some of the different housing that was being built in town and we required uh houses with I believe it's 3,500 square feet anything above that also has to meter um the way the original system was set up a house was considered one ERC so if you had a house on Church Street you were paying the same amount as say the new Ames house across here didn't seem reasonable so now the larger homes are going to be metered and that provides a little bit more fair fairness there um so that was the bit the gist of the the sewer ordinance at that time um was just to update how we build to try to generate revenue for the projects that we had um recently completed and some of the new ones that we're about to do um the next item I have here is talking about Road standard so kind of along those lines you know some of these things had that's just the way it always was with Nisa well one of the things we had is there was really wasn't standard for private roads so you know our fire trucks are are getting bigger garbage trucks are getting bigger you know there's more of those kind that kind of traffic um we were getting a lot of complaints about people on private roads that you know 20 years ago they were built they that people buy into that and they think that you know they should be getting the same Services as anyone else on one of the city maintained streets well that wasn't the case so New Roads that are constructed now going forward all have to meet the same road standard and so we we've provided for that um I think that will help with that um developers who come in who would like to have private roads have to justify why it should be a private road it's no longer just I want a private road you have to you have to really strongly justify how that can be a private road otherwise a default is a public which gives the the residents who live on those Street access to the city services such as plot um yeah I think that's the main thing that we addressed with that um we simplified it some um there's a urban section and then there's a rural section most of the streets in nah are rural um Urban would as most of you are familiar would refer to things like curb and gutter however if you look at some of the work that we've done on the 2025 Road Bond and and probably what we will do on the 26 is there are areas where we have to do a little bit of a hybrid you know for instance if you're familiar with upper Roy Lake Road some of the Topography of that dictates that we're going to need some curb and gutter to make drainage work to so we don't wear so we don't wash out the sides of the road in those areas so you'll see curb and gutter in spots that would normally be considered rural um yeah I think that's the main gist of the of the road standards and then just you know mostly to allow for safety and uh um ease of maintenance for us so you know we've also looked at things like pavement thicknesses and um I think we have a better better product now going forward so all the new roads are being built to that same standard there's which wasn't was was n likely happening before so and I think consistency is really some of the maybe driving part of that right yeah so we were what so when I started here there was no set um plan for when to repay a street in this while it was just well whenever we get enough complaints that's when we would tackle that well our first step was to just our first run at it was to set everything onto a 40 40-year repavement schedule that's likely to long for most of the streets so we've shortened that up to 30 and that's what we're operating under for 25 and the 25 and 26 Bond um will it need to vary from that maybe that's probably for future groups to decide if 30 is the right um length I think it'll get us at least in the ballpark some streets that are heavily traveled may need more um some of them say like Edna Lake Road where they have a nice solid base and low traffic may be able to go a little longer I think they can they can adjust that going forward as they need to so um but now everybody knows what to expect on their street you know if they can count out that it's been 28 years since the road was repaved chances are they're going to get a new new paved Road soon I think I'll turn that over to Jenny know for the assessment policy discussion and if I can add to it I will y please do thanks Tom um so the other item that we have um during that time frame that we looked at um that the council updated was its assessment policy and providing more specific Direction and information on how um utilities are to be constructed as part of new development projects um and just laying that out more clearly so that again we're consistent um as a city in the approach and we have conversations with developers they know what to expect and they can get the information ahead of time um to evaluate with their projects um part of this was because we were starting to see some interest in some commercial property in our city um and it was really well how does this work and how are we going to work with these developers to make these things happen recognizing that um utility infrastructure can be very expensive but where does the burden lie with that and is that should be a city um share or developer share or sure some combin share and so that policy does help to provide some initial Direction on what that looks like and so with that um we started talking about then um planning studies because we were seeing interest from developers they were bringing um you know draft ideas for development projects to us to say you know would this work and how would that impact um the community and and what kind of infrastructure would be needed the city engaged with Seth uh to complete some studies to help us with that future decision making and we had a backage road study a lift station 12 study and a Municipal Water System study and I believe I get to turn it over to Dave to talk about each one of those Thanks Jen good evening so as Jenny mentioned um a lot of this work involving future planning um took place in 2021 a lot of it was uh based on developer proposal and inquiries that were coming into the city um the majority of the proposals were taking place along Highway 371 Frontage um down along the uh old Sportland corners area uh so we started to take a look at how that could possibly develop um what's the what's that look like from the city infrastructure um aspect or roadway ways water supply in sanitary sewer service so this is meant to um uh give a possible picture uh that could take place over the next uh again 10 20 years out um everyone takes their best guess on growth and projections um how quickly development occurs um is really depend on the developers but um having a good plan in place or any plan in place is better than not in our opinion uh because it gives you options gives the developer options they can see the full development potential highest and best use of their properties um as opposed to not having any plan in place uh which could severely limit what they think they can do with their properties okay so the first thing we'll talk about is backage Road uh studies that were done again back in 2021 um we did have one informational meeting with property owners that are in the north I'll call at the Northwest Quadrant of Highway 371 and 77 so that's um we'll take a look at some maps here in a second but we held that informational meeting with those Property Owners back in October of 2021 and uh we looked at both the East and West sides of Highway 371 so this is uh the Northwest Quadrant um it's a graphic of a possible route for um a backage road you can see 371 portion of it up in the um top right corner um so this would extend all the way to Hazelwood drive all the way down to to the South to Casa 77 uh we look took a look at the topography with available information and looked at route that would be feasible based on uh what we know about wetlands and topography in that area and also with some of the parcel mapping data that's available and this is a southern portion of that possible backage road um again this can be modified um if needed but you need to start somewhere when you start planning and this is a possible route that we looked at we did get some good feedback from Property Owners some that are very interested and possibilities of having a backage road this obviously creates better access to their properties for uh commercial development also provides a good utility Corridor for future extension of sanitary sewer and water if the city chooses to go down that route to serve the city with uh public water supply you're familiar um I believe with the ongoing mind out work along the highway 371 Corridor the maps behind you um are maps that mad has been reviewing with the city um to look at a long-term plan uh going into the future and what we've highlighted here on this U indu Corridor map is a possible rout for the east and west side of 371 for bage roads um this includes the one that we just reviewed that goes from 77 to Hazelwood it also includes Southwest quadrant that would go through U property that the the city has been completing its due diligence on a purchase of a portion of that property approximately 70 acres and it includes um a possible route again on the east side of 371 um that would provide access to those uh property owners that were seeking uh City input on developing their property um with city services back in 2020 21 part of the um studies that took place at that time uh sanitary SE being one of the primary needs for commercial development and density um of some of the proposals that were um brought past the city including including apartment buildings um hotels uh things of that nature higher density development really rely upon um sanitary sewer provided by the city uh the lift station 12 study was completed and uh this gives you just a brief overview of of the zoning in that area along with the proposed lift station 12 area that was right at the intersection uh Southern intersection to the left uh well excuse me just to the north of that um where there's an ex existing access okay this exhibit from the study shows um how we estimated the potential flows that we'd see from this study area um we took a look at the zoning and the buildable acreages uh within those zoning districts excluding Wetlands Wetland information that's available and um you know so one of the questions is why is it shaped like this why why didn't you include that area why didn't you um go further usually that's the question that we get you have to draw a boundary on your planning area at some point this is really based on um you know what we felt was a reasonable uh planning area to look at and the boundaries of it are somewhat based on the zoning districts um and what's feasible to capture uh within the sewers shed of a singular major lift station U we all know that the cost Capital cost of a lift station is very high but um the real cost Factor comes into the Perpetual maintenance operation and maintenance of a structure like that so you want to be able to serve the broadest area that you can uh with the fewest number of lift stations possible this area we looked at has about 180 Acres of buildable Land Based on the zoning we estimated about 260 equivalent residential units could be served within that planning area that would generate about 38,000 gallons average wet weather flow uh per day with a peak instantaneous wet weather flow of 153,000 those numbers are really just important for um taking a look at sizing a lift station um but they also go to you know what's the capacity impact on our wastewater treatment facility so getting to a little bit more specifics on liation 12 um looking at those types of flows uh again conceptual we haven't done a design at this stage but we took a look at what what size of a barrel that lift station should really have a six foot diameter Barrel would be sufficient um based on what we know today uh 110 gallons per minute would be sufficient based on what we know today and the cost of that lift station along with Access Road uh the um bit of trunk gravity sewer that would be needed to provide uh collection to that lift station along with a 6-inch Force man that would proceed to the north to the southernmost existing manhole in the existing City system um would be the recommendation the 6in force man is an interim force me again these flows develop over time it's not going to happen tomorrow uh usually takes a number of years for that full capacity to be realized at some point in time we anticipate that the city would need to redirect flows because this 6in Force main would deliver uh waste water that ultimately would end up at that lift station one lift station one has the capacity to take that waste water to a point um and then uh we would look at redirecting that full buildout area to a larger uh Force man it would be an 8 in and that would proceed to the west side of 371 and go directly up to the plant um we have looked at bringing lift station three together with lift station 12 uh and bringing that directly to the plant that would alleviate the flows to lift station one and again this may not happen for 15 20 years but um looking out into the future uh when this property fully develops uh this is a feasible plan and um with your it utilizes your existing infrastructure that you have in place especially for the interim growth period and then it provides a plan for the future um you know to handle those future flows okay let's talk a little bit about Municipal Water Systems um so a municip water system uh usually is driven Again by the um density and uh commercial development needs um water demand uh really varies depending on the type of users that you have within your service area and it also depends on uh other factors like fire flow and protection um within commercial areas and areas that uh again have hotels apartment buildings things like that that are regulated uh in such a way that they need to have fire protection um looking at the demand on this uh area which extends beyond the lift station 12 study area goes all the way up to Nisswa Main Street proper up to the North in serving that area as well um we looked at what the demand would possibly be and again this is taking a look at commercial and residential uses based on the zoning um what you have now today and what we expect to happen in the future and we developed a average daily demand flow of around 188,000 gallons per day maximum demand flow or daily demand uh was estimated around 263,000 and the peak hourly demand around 433,000 so um again those numbers go into really taking a look at the components of a public water system like the water tower water treatment um when do you expect to have these demands and how do these systems get sized properly to handle those demand periods so for an elevated storage tank um the study recommended uh elevated tank having a capacity of 300,000 gallons per day uh I'd say this is fairly typical for a community um like niswa uh it does take into consideration uh a fire flow Factor um fire flows are determined um in different ways uh 2hour three hour demand at different rates uh for different types of facilities so uh you need to incorporate some storage in the tower for that the distribution system uh we expect that we'll have 8 in 10 in and 12 in diameter water meanss involved with this system uh to cover the geographic area within the planning area uh again 12 in would be your main transmission lines and 8 in would be um expanded out to serve uh Grand View and the rest of the areas along the commercial Highway zoning area Municipal Water um with water wells uh either you get your water supply from surface water or you get it from Wells groundwater um personally I'm not aware of uh any community that is locally taking water supply from a surface water um all Wells um this is really dependent on the aquifer and what it can give you uh in terms of volume so we took a look in the study at area water wells uh that have been drilled uh we see many Wells that can produce 300 gallons per minute um they're treating for iron and manganese mainly uh so water quality is the next consideration what would the public water supply have to treat for to provide a level of service that people would expect um water chemistry uh would have to be explored with a test well so um The Next Step In The Water planning process that we would recommend to the city would be to start looking at some possible areas for completing a test well um getting some water chemistry and getting some pumping rates so that you know what is feasible from a capacity and quality standpoint what we find out in terms of water quality dictates what we would treat for um hardness and softening goes into that discussion um this is a a graphic from the study that shows the cross-sections of the wells well records that we collected basically it shows that there's buried aquifers in the niswa area that are about 130 to 160 ft in depth that's the range for the upper aquafer there's actually two there's one lower one they may be connected at certain points um kind of the rule of thumb and everything is uh unique to the location and the geology but um kind of the one thing that sticks in my head is the deeper you go the the more mineral content that you have in your water you're going to pump and uh the shallower you are the softer the water generally tends to be but more risky for surface contamination too so you have to take that into account all right um I'm going to lead this off to Jenny so she can talk a little bit more about the property where we're looking at possible water plant thanks Dave um as the committee is familiar with just generally speaking as we kind of reflect on all of these different components and variables with um roads sewer water just Utilities in general infrastructure planning it's they' mentioned a couple times it's really working with the best information that we have at the time that we have it and trying to be as responsive as we can be to um developers and ideas that come to us to evaluate and discuss and so something that came forward in 2023 was um some property along the highway um owned by Stewart Mills that um was in total 134 acres and it went on the market mid 2023 and the city um Council wanted to have some conversations about is there an opportunity or a need for the city to um incorporate some of this property for our own future use um whether it's for facility use or infrastructure planning things of that nature um so the city council engaged in conversations uh for a good six to nine month period we entered into the council entered into a purchase agreement in May of 24 and then we spent uh the summer months going through a very robust due diligence due diligence process um survey work Environmental Studies were completed Wetland delineations and an archaeological study um as part of this um bill will talk about just the layout and really the idea was to determine uh what specific property might the city need for future plan in purposes and then what portion of the property do we not need to keep and can we really um look look to uh create development opportunities complementing that potential infrastructure um development component so um Bill's just going to provide a high level overview of the components um this isn't anything that is finalized or you know set in stone it's just to provide um really an estimate uh for our use with the bond issuance and I just want to speak to that real quickly because um the the bond that will be issued for this property purchase will be split into two components it will be the um tax exempt component which is the land that the city will retain for our needs and then the taxable component which will be land we will turn um around and resell at some point in the future to developers so what we keep from the city perspective can be tax exempt and what we look to what we will look to resell would be tax and so that's really the the the high level overview of how do we lay this out and determine what the needs are for the city and then what we might um look to um sell into the future so Bill So based on the information that we collected the AL the survey and uh basically everything that we collected uh we generated this layout showing the existing features with the archaeological area right there and we tried to lay out you know like what would be a possible path for the roadways um connecting Hazelwood into um 370 or into existing Hazelwood that connects into 77 and then connecting um basically trying to connect into where mindat has laid out where they think the roadway should be connected in um a little bit further to the west and then we tried to align that kind of curving that roadway down to the uh South um for future extension to the South and then connecting in where minda proposes a connection onto 371 so once we kind of and then we also we've come up with other options but this one seems to be the one that uh um I don't probably the best option I guess um so what we try to lay out here would be like uh the where like the water treatment plant would go where the public safety building would go and the city Administration we also tried to come up with a layout for storm sewer and where we could do some water treatment um storm water treatment um so what we kind of came up with was putting like the Water Tower and the treatment plant closer to the North edge of the property um so how we came up with the property sizes is we did kind of an analysis a while back um working with different cities um they they some of them already built different buildings so we looked at the size of their Community looked at the size of their buildings and came up with like a rough idea as to what would work for the size of a city Administration public safety building and the water treatment plant like the land area and also in that little analysis excuse me was the uh this possible size of the building so that's we tried to lay out on this drawing would be like where we I mean these are conceptual you know like we roughly so the idea was to be able to fit it in there so that we know it would work um and then we're going to turn this back over to Mark to talk about lift station one rebuild I mentioned earlier just pump cycle Times age and everything um for lift station one this located along Hazelwood Drive also the site you got the crck crossing there uh you know a few things constraining it so uh for that lift station i' you know I've talked to the city about they should be looking at some uh Future Property addition uh you know quarter acre half acre just to allow some more flexibility because in rebuilding the lift station um one it it's live you just don't have the luxury of taking it offline for three weeks and constructing something hooking back up just like Lift Station 3 that was done at Grand View uh you know the city worked out an easement developed some additional property from granu we constructed the new structure lift station man you know uh panel was in place and then pick a day for switch over and you bring all the hes over start the new pumps but keep the old Li station in place for a couple days just in case Murphy's LW shs up and you have a component problem or something happens and then you make the change over and then you do the demolition of that lift station so that is you know Tom and I just had some preliminary discussions and that is what we would anticipate for lift station one is that that would follow a similar uh scenario where rather than trying to reconstruct right in place it would be a uh structure you know right adjacent but uh you know to allow that scenario and the other aspect too that you have it is you have a lot of homes along the lake Nisa basements uh if you try to rebuild in place if you have problems then you just run the risk backing up basement so that's the other issue that wasn't so much there for Lift Station 3 but it is there for lift station one so those are the things that the city will be looking at here and you know in the next you know the planning and reconstruction phase here in 2025 and 26 capacity wise the lift station is really at 300 gallons per unit it has all the capacity it needs 6in Force maintenance plenty large it just needs the uh you know to address some of the older components that Mike Wagner said is isues with over the years getting uh replacement parts for and just the short cycle times so thanks Bill um so I guess what we're going to talk about here a little bit is the nisad geographic informational system or GIS and asset management that system just came on live um recently we had a training with or I didn't but uh with said GIS had a training session with uh misas staff and it's up and running and basically it just shows it so the system is owned by the city of nwell we just our WTH is just helping them provide the information and adding the information that they think that or that they contacts is about to add U right now it shows streets um utilities um signs well I don't know about showing signs and street lights but it shows and the zoning and stuff like that so it shows some of the basic stuff that they wanted um but we can keep adding to that City staff can keep adding to that um in order to get as much information on there so this is what it looks like when you uh open up argis so you see on the three different Windows there and the comprehensive app plan that kind of shows the um do you want to just switch over to that so this is kind of I don't know if you've what you're looking at right here is um the green dots are like manholes in the city sanitary sewer manholes we have labels for the lift stations we have the pipe connecting the manholes um and all that a lot of that is already surveyed in so we just upload our survey points in into the gis so that we know where it is and then you can click on manholes in order to like provide put information in there or Public Works can do that um and it's it seems pretty user friendly so far it's just the it's like the like said it's the city's own system so they can add whatever information they want to it oh well next thing to talk about is uh just going to talk about some of the current projects that are going on um the nisat 2025 Road Bond specifically the 2025 streets um you know the streets were identified and the conceptual scope of work was determined uh we began the survey we've surveyed pretty much most all the streets except for a small portion of Roy Lane just south of upper Roy Lake Road um we're in the process of coming up with like a 30% concept plan we've been reviewing those with the city to make sure that we're on on track and on following the scope of work um yeah we still have the 2026 Street improvements and um the other thing that we're working on is the niswa park mainly what we're doing is we're just providing assistance to the city of niswa to um create or write help them write a grant for the outdoor recreation Grant um this is a little bit more of an extensive Grant application you kind of have to have a a design there's a lot of information that you need to provide and we're just assisting them with that the idea is to fund uh new playground and pickle ball courts uh this is something that was just talked about at the last city council meeting in the niswa city hall um just a brief summary the building was built in 2005 they did a facility study in 2021 and then over the years U it was identified that uh they needed that that they were going to do a new pro project and that project um was approved or at least the um funding for that project was approved on October 2024 where high-tech construction was selected as a general contractor the construction project includes replacing the roof Windows tuck pointing well you can read all their stuff there but basically it's going to improve the building eliminate some of the problems that they have right now um so what I did is I just threw this slide in there it's you know like there's a lot of lot of INF there's a lot of things that are going on in the city of nisah and know there's a lot of funding opportunities here now some of these things the city has already used some of the things width has um applied for Grants and received so I just put up a list of some of the things that you can get money for or from successfully funded projects these are some of the projects that we've um received funds from and very similar to what we're talking about here in uh niswa so in Dawson um $5.8 million loan $9.7 million grant for utility and Street project city of Isle did a water and wastewater project I mean they were very similar to this one that a lot of their infrastructure was not built yet so they kind of started From Scratch so they got almost a little over $9 million city of Clearbrook also did a water sewer and Street project and we were able to get like $9.6 million um you know like some of these funding things they just make a good projects affordable um that way then you can do Street improvements Water waste water and other infrastructure projects um I just put this slide in here just to talk a little bit about our us um we plan kind of like our topic or our heading for the day we pl we focus on planning and Engineering for Rural communities and you know we have good engineering expertise we have a multi-discipline firm of Engineers Architects surveyors stuff like that a regional Focus pretty much staying in Minnesota but pretty much the whole state and uh professional funding expert which I already explained and now we get into the part where Q&A so if you have any questions well I guess I'll go first um a lot of information put together um I myself know about some of these past meetings back in 2021 and some of that information and some of that however um this question is open for anyone in this room to answer why is there no development being done down in that current corridor where is that the corridor that they talked about down along 371 down there the focus of this my question to people in this room is developers came here in 2021 um to pursue that the Land part of the land that the city is purchasing now has been for sale bill breens in the room for two years more than two years more than two years still part of it for sale so my question again to anybody in this room to answer is why is nothing being done why isn't the real estate selling why isn't development happening down there I mean I know the answer you know the city's policies plans procedures everything that's just talked about isn't affordable at any level to do it I myself have walked the ground that's for sale down there with billionaires they don't become billionaires because they don't know what to do with their money and what's a good buy and a good project to do we're not going to see development down there until we stop and take a better look at our plan put together and until that does I'm sorry but all this is just we're just wasting our time otherwise that development would have already happened by now and already be happening but but it's not it's not fundable fundable um with the current procedures and policies in place by the city but it's not happening I know a couple developers I mean the big reason isn't the policies uh in the past some of the developments that they've done they've put in the roads to ordinance or municipality ordinances and specifications uh from what I heard from two of them is um the lack of water for the development that they want that was the big thing so but but they're they would be okay with in the past in other municipalities that they've developed they've put in the roads to the specifications pass it on to the property that they sold so they don't have a problem with that but like I said just water lack up sure but putting in the roads you know no private roads putting in the roads up to Road standards I think in 2021 when Joe put together numbers for LIF station number 12 down there the preliminary cost was I'd have to look back obviously I don't have this information was around the $6 to 700,000 you know now it's at 1.17 but the price of everything's only going up only getting more expensive back in 20 and 21 when developers came forward to do that it wasn't feasible now the price has only gotten substantially more expensive you know by the time you put all this infrastructure in place no matter what building or business you put on there you can't make your money back on it that's why that area um is sitting with probably some of the most Prime real estate on the whole 371 Corridor for sale for over two years that is why no developments happening down there at the end of the day just like we had this morning with the business owners that filled every chair out there we need to bring the developers in and ask them I mean you know you can hear it from me but apparently we need to fill all these butts with those people because it's not going to work the numbers don't work it doesn't add up so um I think we have taken um opportunities um on occasion handful of times since my time in this W 2021 being one of those specifically where we've you know engaged directly with business owners or Property Owners developers to say come in here and share us you know share with us your feedback your ideas the things you're thinking about um that only helps our planning efforts to know that is a challenge I mean that is a challenge understandably that um developers don't want to put maybe their all of their ideas out into the world um as they're starting to evaluate them and decide maybe what community to pursue um one idea or another um but that is something that we have asked in the past to try to get feedback and um we don't get much I think for for responses so that is a challenge but something to for the committee I mean really for all committees and for the city council is um to ask those questions and to say are we happy with as a community um are we happy with the pace of development or the growth that we're seeing and if we're not um what adjustments can we make to that to provide some different direction or opportunities whether that's I mean you think of tax increment Finance ing you think of other development um incentives that might maybe there's a reduction in sewer hookup fees as an example I mean there's ways to do that um and certainly those are things that if you is is this group for example wants to discuss and evaluate and and make a recommendation to to council I think that's that's in part also where that starts is to say you you have the the ability to to do that and to provide some context to say we'd like to see something happen here and how can we facilitate and and partner in that way so I certainly understand because cost is is certainly I mean that's very important and to balance that with the developer need and with what's the right um amount of burden to to place on the taxpayer um and what's the payback because maybe there is just that that growth in tax base is the payback and the community wants that as part of that um investment in in our you know future future growth of the community so I just you know offer that and and you know kind of think as a as a committee if that's something you would like to see going a different direction than what feedback can the committee provide um to to make that change yeah I mean it has to in 20121 I sat right out there at the table when we had mind in here we had the county in here we had the city in here we had wsn here we were talking about that development you know um that kind of spurred this on down there I was sitting at the table during the whole discussion um and at that time you know mot had said you know if we come back to them with closing off uh dangerous corridors 371 hazelwood for example you know things like that that there' be funding potentially available for the backage roads around there um you know the month after that meeting took place at the council level the rules change the very next month is when the rule change to no private roads in the city of NES to mandating that um developments like that have um ability to hook up for City water which we don't even have there was a whole slew of rules that changed the very next month that prohibited stuff then and are still in place today that's prohibiting any of this development at the end of the day with anybody moving into our town residential or business it's always about the money it's always about the dollar it doesn't add up if it doesn't add up for the dollar here it's not going to add up for anybody and that that's the number one thing before we go down this thing we got to look and completely revamp and rechange our policies and procedures in this city to do stuff I mean you know even um in a corridor like that to put a three-story building in to have an apartment biggest need in this town is affordable housing affordable housing is apartment building it's not allowed in the city of Noah you know it's chick and egg do we need the water tower first or what or the apartment building well um you know needs to be some Creative Solutions with that but at the end of the day it's all about the math all about the money it doesn't work that's why the land is still sitting for sale down there except for the north half the city's looking at buying and that's why there's nothing else going on in that Corridor we even being talked about in the corridor right now and I mean bill is Maybe can speak to some of this well I think you're bringing up some really good points I mean uh you know the council has already made approval that they're going to purchase that land so that now the hard work starts I'll agree with you on that right Joe the hard work's going to start with this but it's the Catalyst that's going to start I've already got two parties that are very already interested in purchasing commercial property in that that space so you know that so hopefully they'll start generating some Revenue as long as and as they come in too there's assessments on those so but that work has to start because we got to make sure that you do have the policies in place that we can allow that development when that uh list station gets put in that's going to open up a lot of land for future development you know so because there's some parties that are interested in doing that in regards to the housing so I mean it's going to be a long term it's going to be a hard work but I think once we get a couple if we can get two people in there two businesses in there that are already wanting to to get moving on this as quickly as possible then that's going to create other development along that that whole Corridor and even with the properties that Stuart milsk has in you know kept in his possession is going to be uh very interesting to I think people too so it's really you're starting you're lighting the fire but now we have to make sure that we can watch it and and manage it as we grow it and the city is going to have to look at ordinances you know in previous coverage is going to be a fact and some of those kinds of things as well all that's going to have to be looked at that's what I'm saying that's that's the starting point before we get too far down this road we have to look at our policies or ordinances and stuff because right now the way that it's set up it doesn't allow for businesses to come in there I don't you know obviously I don't know who you're talking to but none of that work is done at the city level to allow this and to allow it at any sort of level that um make sense financially for anybody to look at it that that works not done that's the road roock every single developer is ran into right but now the the key is you've opened the door and you if sure the city's going to purchase this and we you know finalize that purchase then the city really has to say okay now we have our work to do because we're going to have to look at like you say ordinances and policies to be able to move that forward so a simple question to wsn you know you know the acreage of that map for lift station number 12 um we know it needs the backage roads the infrastructure in there right we know how far the backage roads are mileage we know what it costs per mile to put a road in you have the 1.17 I would like somebody to put a number to that acreage that circled down there and say okay if all this infrastructure does go into it what does that cost cost per acre you know what would be assess back to per acre do you does anybody have any information on that not right now but we can put it together that that would be a yeah a legitimate starting point before we took this any further yeah so that's that's doing some of the hard work like that the bill was talking about starting the next step of planning looking at what's this going to cost in terms of property owner share of the infrastructure cost what's what's the public the rest of the city um you know tax revenue going to pay for right what can we get for funding or you know can we go down to like a city of Maple Grove and take a plan that they have in place for development structure and apply it here is it just assessments on those properties as they're sold you know is there a different way to do it so the rest of um the city isn't covering the cost of whatever let's say a new gas station or anything that might go down that Corridor I guess I would think that's going to be a tough sale for the taxpayers to go hey you got to cover3 million more dollars worth of expense to get this new gas station in town I don't think that that's going to fly in this city with the taxpayers and so before we go any further I guess you know that would be the number one question what does that do per cost per acre and then you know obviously we know what the city just paid per acre over there can we as a city get the money back out of what we're proposing to sell you know I mean you know before we engage anymore with future buyers that might want that property we have to know that information ourselves on the front end you know to make this work because if we keep 20 acres for it's roughly 70 Acres correct so are we going to keep 20 acers and sell 50 is that the magic math that we need to do can we keep 30 and sell 40 what's the math for ourselves even to be able to keep so I guess I don't know those are my quick initial thoughts on all this I mean there's nothing wrong with what's presented I think it's good it's good to think about but it's also a little bit of the cour before the horse again I feel I mean it's it's got to be talked about but or the other parts of the city have to come along with it pnz and and all this stuff and I'm not sure that um that the city as a whole is I don't know up to that task or we have the staff on hand to properly execute all this as needed absolutely um and and something I think to to keep in mind is we we have maybe two um key pieces to this we talked a lot at the beginning about the existing infrastructure and we can't forget about that we need to maintain it we need to keep that running and that was that has been the topic of a handful of your meetings about lift station one and the rebuild that's needed and the committee feeling comfortable to move forward with that process and make a recommendation so that is one component of this is to say we need to keep the existing infrastructure in good shape and operating order and I think that's you know big a big um important component for Tom and his team to to have that direction and to if you know something's brought to you that we evaluate it and we we keep the process moving from an existing infrastructure perspective so that was one goal of today was to hopefully give you a um Vision kind of a recap of the um systems we have and um what we're looking from a staff perspective to get feedback and input on for the timing of that so that's one component which is also as important as this planning component and the purchase of the property is the first step and once that's you know secured we can start to work on all of those next layers to that so just keeping in mind both of those things are important and I don't know if you have any feedback on just that existing piece but I know that's something we're we're really kind of concerned about it the problem with that existing piece is it what was done there when we first started talking about it is what's going to feed into it and so we knew from Joe Dell's drawing that we would have to consider what lift station 12 would look like well once we dove into that a little bit with this committee they didn't feel we had a clear picture of what station 12 the area would service what type of development would be there you know I couldn't answer that question so it kind of stalled with that um you know kind of to some of Joe's points I would say you know what is the purpose of the Public Works committee you know we do figure out the roads the water towers sewer but the economic piece of this I think belongs somewhere else in the city you know there needs to be some some kind of an economic development committee um this isn't that we're not good at dealing with things like such as bonds this isn't the place for that and you know trying to figure out what developers want um you know where they where do they come to interface with the city um you know if they don't come we have no idea what to do you know I don't care how rich they are they could own half the world but if they don't tell us what they want we can't figure out what that is and that's kind of where we've been is a chicken or an egg concept here what comes first the developer of the city well a big part of what we've been trying to do as far as Public Works is concerned at least what I feel we've try to do is figure out okay if we had to service that piece of property such as the Mills how it be done you know you need to know what the roads should look like what the sewer should look like what the water should look like at least a generic picture of that so we've taken a pretty good stab at that here so far until a developer comes along and saysi want to build a bowling alley or I want to build a I don't know the next Disney World we don't know we're taking our best guess at it you know so we look at generic things like residential and gas stations and stuff and so there's a mix of it and that's kind of what you get um you know I I do think there's probably room for a development committee that would be comprised of Representatives of uh in the development committee maybe it's real estate agent maybe it's actual business owners I don't know I'm not an expert at that and then they could feed committees such as this or Planning and Zoning tell us what they want and you know you take that Mills Property and you know so the things that we were looking at is you know how do we tie into the mot study you know how do we take advantage of what they're doing you know one of the things was we had to have some kind of an idea what backage roads look like so if men not if there was money available to help construct the we had a cost estimate where they might go what what they might serve and so that's really what you've seen here and that's what we've asked wet to put together um it's tough um I mean obviously these things are extremely expensive and it's easy to make a mistake um but we're doing what we feel we can do uh wi Seth provides us with uh expertise on how to build these things um I think there might be somebody else that we need to employ if we want to look at the business end of this yeah one thing I I've said before I think I had a conversation with Jenny on this but yeah one thing i' I've always thought is in this La as it's developing we don't have an economic development committee which is important because we can't lay everything on E andz Public Works and so forth um and that I think would be an asset especially with the future possibility of the development that will be coming in um because you can look at that time is you know they'll have feedback should we do a partnership on you know when we put in infrastructure you know how would that look you know public private um but I know a lot of citizens if we start building every single Road putting in all the sewer with no assessment to the property so that's not going to fare well with with the citizens but um work can we started looking at an economic development committee yeah correct I guess that's what I'm saying you know there's a component to the city that we're missing you know from what staff can take on with doing a whole project and stuff like this and trying to sit down um this is all good information but like Tom said it's I agree it's probably not for this group of people and I'm in agreement with both of you we need some sort of Economic Development Committee board made up of people that actually know this that can come back and give the feedback and go hey this is how we've done it in other towns this is how other towns do it this is how we can make the dollars and cents work you know I mean we don't even have low medium and high density in this town you know that's that's a foreign concept in in this town you know we have Highway business district but we don't have different densities right now with mixed uh mixed use really I mean we do a little bit in downtown across the street we have some apartments above some of the units but to actually put that together to drive this to develop this area correctly you know it's all missing but then it flows into you know the ladder truck for the fire department you know there's another million dollars all of a sudden when we if we're going to start to develop this and do it you know you're talking a water truck you're uh a fir truck at a million dollars you're talking a lift station at a million dollars you're talking Millions for the roads you know the water tower millions and we're going hey this is going to snowball really quickly you know and does the city have the capacity you know to do this or is this still something that needs put on hold and pause and we need to get $10 million built up over the next however many years before we can even kick something like this off but once again I don't think it's for this group I agree it's for it's for some it's for a Economic Development Committee that currently doesn't exist within the city Mr chair I I really appreciate the what was presented today because you know sitting up here on this committee a lot of these things we we hear from month to month but but pulling them all together and to see the bigger picture was uh at least for me I appreciate it um I don't know and I'm just speaking for myself but as a as a resident of niswa my biggest concern is that balance between growth and development and and that's I think that's at the core of what of what we're talking about here and essentially my view of this is that we're we're an advisory body you know Public Works committee appreciate getting the information but I think these Visionary big picture issues that's got to come from the city council and and I agree with you that you're getting into a realm of you know kind of a transition from a from a I don't want to say a small town but a progressive town to where that additional input from a group or you know a position with the city that that's that's trained in Economic Development and the in you know the financial impacts of of doing what you're talking about doing here maybe it's time for a city council to start looking at that but as far this I agree this is not the body to to be talking about a lot of these issues even though they're much appr appreciate yeah I think some of the planning that we were trying to do here is to get ahead a little bit you know there's one issue that probably most everybody's familiar with and that's the would be the Northwest Quadrant backage Road um a few years ago the city had an opportunity to purchase a property there that would have lent it felt well to building that road at the time and we passed on and largely we passed on it because we didn't have any idea where these utilities would go and so some of this is is trying to ident you know try to start to nail down where would be the ideal corridors for some of these things placements so that when developers come along if we did have an economic development Authority established and they started coming up with ideas for this is what they're proposing going to be uh in the way of how we would best serve the community with say sewer extensions or water extensions and so that's some of what we were attempting to do here I it it it's not perfect but you know I I think we're in a better position that way now than we were we at least have some idea where this stuff is going to sit otherwise we were looking back at a map from 2005 um to give us well what what what might we do with that and it was just you know just a another concept drawing at the time um it needed to be updated so uh you know some of our our hands were forced to you know there were some inquiries into development um you know for instance the the schafers were looking at a project um Grand View's been looking at a few projects and there's been others and you know we can't even tell them how we're going to serve them at this point because it's to amorphous well this we had to come up with some ideas with that and I think we're doing that I think this gives you a good idea of Concepts anyway where we want to go with it and it has to be fleshed out and you know so I don't know what the next step is I couldn't tell you but I think for Public Works what we're doing makes sense right so that let's just ask the question on that Northwest Corridor running across through there you know through the land that Tom just referenced and it comes up along the golf course there to basically go along the sewer ponds then ultimately um is that in line with this with mot that that's all with mind do now is mot also you know on the financial aspect for the city if we were just going to start with there is mind do still saying that they're going to heavily participate in the funding of that if that intersection at Hazelwood get shut off in 371 where where are we at with those discussions go ahead yeah um so at the last uh work Workshop that mindat was here um or a couple weeks ago um we did talk about that briefly um I would say it's probably Fair um a fair statement that uh mind Do's approach to funding has modified a bit um they are certainly open to those conversations but um I think it would be more of a shared cost and it there would have to be a direct benefit um as you mentioned as an example a closing of pasis awood drive as an example um I think there would have to be more substantial impacts to the highway 371 um Corridor for them to engage in cost participation so um also that one property that Tom mentioned um I think the question that we're still working with mindat on is where is that connection for mindat might be um further to the West now not where that um Wasa home property is located now I think they're looking to move that further west so that there's more stacking um away from the intersection but um all of those things we've asked them they're aware we're interested and want to keep developing that as they develop their study but I'm not sure exactly how much funding I know they're open to the conversation but there's some some layers to that that they will want to address with us at the at the time so what's their timeline then like on that mot well the the corridor study is for a 2030 um plan but I think the answer really is that they want to be able to address um primarily safety concerns um as those needs is the are the top priority is to say we want to you know if there are safety issues we want to have the capacity and funding um in place to address those and then they would um address future um improvements on a development basis based on when developers come forward and what those needs are and impacts to the highway I think too just put a little spin on this or what from what I've heard from them various sources we may have to argue a bit for how much they're going to participate you know we can't just accept their first offer because they'll they'll shoot low and they've said you know so they've been every all over the map as far as what how much they will participate all the way from complete to almost nothing and so I think you know one of the clues I guess that they've given us is you know they'd like to establish um a corridor of Frontage or backage roads on both sides of 371 the length of the city because it takes stress off of their their Highway and so that's a benefit to them we need to be able to quantify that you know what is that benefit Worth to them what's it worth to us and try to get a little bit more out of it so when they close off some of the these intersections or you know we're about to say construct one of the back portions of the backage road what should their share be we don't right now I don't know that we could answer that for our portion what what should we expect so then that tied in with lift station number one if that backage road goes in there and we see a bunch of development in there uh I mean you know Grand View owns a bunch of land on the back side of the golf coures there you know where it would make another nice development I have no idea if they're thinking about it but Back when Mark was there that area was talked about but is all of that calculated into um the current needs of lift station number one if something like that were to happen that backage road come goes in and all of a sudden we see another 50 60 home development on the one side and the other side you know there's a lot of room for uh still commercial development through that area too is that accounted in with lift station number one right now for what we'd be doing how much extra capacity does lift station one have to be able to take on additional load I think so I think what Mark has identified is there' be a point where we would switch from the starting point did the 6 inch Force M we would jump up to an 8 inch and we would move it over to um I guess I've always refer to it as the um easement for power that runs up to the the sewer plant I think so that that's what'll happen is it if these big developments were to occur you're just going to come to that point much sooner but you can't nobody in this room I don't think has a good idea when that transition would happen it could be five years from now it could be 25 years from now and we don't know but I think we have at least a rough plan of when that will happen and so I think if Mark you can correct me if I'm wrong but what I've believe I've heard you say is um lift station one rebuilt would have the capacity to handle what lift station 12 will throw at it probably for the foreseeable future minus a explosion of growth and at that point lift station one would have that burden taken off from it so it would still be good we'd be running directly up to the plant with a new force me and that's a good problem to have because we would have the development to pay for that project at that time if this is coming forish so what's the uh best time to do lift station number one the most cost effective time what is the timeline left on the current one I mean when's the drop dead D well I think we should do lift station one as soon as we can um we've fund we have set aside funds to do lift station one you know beginning in 25 I don't think we have to do it right away in 25 there is some time to flesh out a little bit more of these arguments and and get a better picture so that you feel a little more confident in that but I think um if we're getting out past 2030 to rebuild this station one we're probably going to cause ourselves some some heartache I think the incentive to do it sooner closer to 25 is some of the things that Mark was saying and he was pointing at it in the number of um start and stops pumps because of the way the barrel is uh the size of it the depth it has to do a lot of starts and stops compared to it the closest analog we have witht Station 3 um constructing that would save us some money on maintenance electricity pump wear and tear so the sooner we could do it it would have some benefit to us and it would allow it to better handle the additional flow of aist station 12 say that were to be built anywhere in the next 5 to 15 years as soon as that comes on those starts and stops are only going to get far more numerous wear and Terror on it will be worse the potential for backup would be worse so I guess I would like to do that lift station one in a reasonably expedited period we've saved money for this at least as far as staff is concerned and some of the counil I'm not saying all of you are aware we have been talking talking about rebuilding lift station one for a variety of reasons we've looked at um adding its own dedicated backup generation the issues with a pump are another thing um the operating staff that work for me have said you know they're having trouble getting parts for the existing panel and some of the other components because they're they're obsolete now we're able to make it work but it would be better if we could move up to a newer generation of um equipment and so I think the best way to handle this is to do it as one big project now where lift station 12 rolls into this a little bit and you know trying to give the city the best bang for the buck it sounds like we need to build a lift station 12 of some capacity in the next year or two um if we have the money set aside for a lift station one can we leverage that to build two lift stations at the same time and save our sell some money on construction you know I guess that's something that we would have to explore further um but I think we can I think we have enough time to to have those conversations does it make S sense to build a lift station one I I think if I'm listening to if I'm hearing you correctly Joe you're saying maybe we should take a step back from list station 12 maybe we should then there's other other voices here say we need to right away I don't don't know I I think that's a question the city council might have to answer as right you know yeah I mean lift station 12 still doesn't do anything for that area down there there's still no roads for it to go underneath all of that stuff you know great you got a lift station down there you still don't have the infrastructure that goes with it you know and so yeah I I think South that's still a much bigger question and I think it's a much bigger doll amount than anybody knows until a full plan gets put in place for what it really does cost per acre to do down there um but yeah lift station number one you know if um if there's all these issues with it and stuff we do need to address doing it but also too if we're talking this backage road you know in 2021 the talk of then was that backage road would go in in 3 to five years years well here we are at three years and we're no F farther than we were at 2021 but now mind Do's doing this is it gaining momentum or is are we saying this is waiting for another five to six years because this is a 2030 project so they did say some things that some of the concepts you see on this project might happen right away especially the ones dedicated to safety you know I think we're all a little bit familiar with the inter section near Subway y um I'd say that's very likely to happen long before 2030 now they they're the only ones who can answer exactly when that will happen but so so that's one example of that I think if there were some development on any one of these quadrants where we want to place a backage road I think that they could participate in that ahead of that schedule as well um you know kind of coming back to what I was saying a little bit earlier about what's their participation level well if I had to to take a gut feel of you know how much should their participation level be at least as a starting point for negotiation well it should be at least 5050 you know we are doing them a favor if we build any portion of the backage road we are taking traffic off of 371 it is something that they're interested in doing so you know we have you know some opportunities here I guess um to get some of what we are looking for around lift station 12 to make it worthwhile and to start getting development that will make the other portions of this come to be such as a water tower and and Public Safety that need be um you know some other funding mechanisms for that you know if you think about it a little longer you know we've talked many times in this city various ways about sales tax well right now we know there's a moratorium on that but that's May soon be lifted how do we take advantage of that um with some of this infrastructure you know I think these are questions that an economic development committee could address does menot give us any time frame on when they're going to have any of the answers like hey within the next 48 months you'll know these answers or anything like that um I'm probably not the right one to ask about this I would say this is probably a good question for Tom Crush shank with mot but um I I think the answers some of these answers are going to come up pretty soon I mean as soon as this is settled I think they're gonna start putting um a timeline to projects start developing the projects to come from this after that meeting with mind when they came up here um with that Workshop after the meeting I kind of pressed some of the guys from in that outside I said when are we looking at starting this because they at one time said 2030 two of them said to me I wouldn't be driving I'd find a different way around brainer and bter in 2728 because that's when they want to start that overpass that area there with 37210 and they said they're looking at forecasting 2030 2031 to finish the rest of it from that point up they just have to work out some things but they also said too I think Tom addressed this they might address some of the safety issues before that in in that other area I mean from 27 2030 but that's kind of that's an up in the timeline but I you know usually when they say that they do because they have to have that information in by um spring of 2025 to the state as to when they're going to do it yeah no it makes sense and I mean I think that you know everything that we talked about everything that we was presented here is good information to have it's good to have at a high level you know nobody knows if it's going to happen in two years or 20 years um but yeah I guess the information I know tonight is um you know I feel like the city probably has work to do with you know the economic development committee putting something like that together and then also um you know maybe getting some more information on the funding the dollars truly what the project cost if it's at developers expense or at the city's expense or combination and you know until we have more numbers put together I don't know that anybody can really make a decision but um lift station number one I don't know if any of you guys have an opinion on when that should start or feedback for Tom on that I guess if the money's set aside the longer we wait the more expensive it's going to get it's just um we don't want to put it in and two years later tear it out and have the do it either so I don't I don't know what the best call is but just from 21 to 22 the preliminary numbers on 12 looks like it's not quite doubled but almost in cost um Tom for the obsolescence issue that you're looking at for list station number one is that a mechanical or electrical obsolescence issue a lot of it's electrical but there's some mechanical things it's not so much that it's obsolete mechanically but it's the wor out you know for instance the concrete Barrel it's was built in 1991 you know effects of hydrogen sulfide over that amount of time you know it's weaken if nothing else knowing that we need to upgrade a lot of the other components of it you're wise to upgrade the entire thing I don't think anything is going to fall apart tomorrow there we have ways of keeping it running but the longer we do that sooner or later there'll be a major malfunction or or um failure that forces us to do this in more of an emergency way which is gon to Cress l so I think it's wise for us to have a plan and stick ahead of these things um we are working on you know we did LIF station three we're current we're currently talking about doing L station one we're going to do something similar for the remaining list stations in the city to try to get them more into a much like with our roads how we have them on a 30-year plan we're going to try to do something similar for the lift station so that they're being renewed if you will you know what what's needed for them to be renewed on a on a regular basis now the thing that's making this thing more complicated and a little bit controversial is all the development all the added flow we want to put on something like this in some areas of the city you won't have that and so this conversation will be pretty quick and easy this just happens to be one of the two main lift stations in the city right and so it there's a lot tied to it but in my eyes um you know it it it's a tool that we can use um to help um facilitate the expansion of the city to the South but once that is under way we have another way of handling that sewer so lift station one once it's rebuilt it can stay this size for for a very long time and so why not have it reliable especially if we are going to push push flow to it from a lift station 12 and so you know when we were first talking about this at the last meeting where some of this became a little bit of a controversy you I couldn't answer the question for you well how much flow is going to come off of lift station 12 and why you know how big should this lift station one be you know maybe I didn't understand it well enough either at that point but um after having long conversations with Mark I feel like well no we really should be shouldn't be concerned about that um once once we hit this transition point that flow will get moved over to a dedicated line going directly to the sewer plant this station one would go back to serving largely what it does today and it'll be good for a long time because the other areas that are feeding those station one aren't growing very fast they're not there there's no big areas of property that can come back and feed the station one that seem to be of interest to developers at this time so Tom you have the the money set aside for the improvements has the city council made any decisions on whether that goes ahead in this coming year or not um no we we're looking for that recommendation from this committee so that's why we were talking about it last month yeah and we just couldn't arrive at a consensus on what the recommendation should be because we were we had some questions about well how does lift station 12 impact this what are property purchases going to be for this do we do the two lift stations together we didn't know what lift station 12 was going to serve you know we had some questions about the property that the city had just purchased from from Mr Mills what's that going to be what's going what what were even the first things that may go there we didn't know that as a group I think some of those questions could should still be answered for Lift Station 12 we need to have a better picture of that before you I would recommend proceeding with a lift station 12 but I do think lift station one we could probably start looking at that um and the only question I would say there for this committee would be does it make sense for us to tie the construction of list station one and 12 together in one project or just do lift station one and let lift station 12 stand alone so I think this will come back at um probably our meeting I would guess in January at the earliest but probably somewhere between January and March we would want to look at what are we building in 25 and 26 lift station one or lift station 1 and 12 and then start looking at the parameters of those you know how much bigger things like that what would be the potential downside to isolating the two and not building them together of just go ahead and moving forward with little extra cost one these yeah I think how much extra cost are we talking about I I couldn't answer that um you know it would be an economy of scale so say you were a contractor and you were building lift station if you could build two of them instead of one great how much better of a bid could you throw out there for building two at the same time versus one right but if you did one now and the let's say you did 1 now and 12 in 3 years are you going to save any money by by waiting 3 years to do number one versus having them done separately because the cost of number one is just going to go up if we put it off to three years so I guess to me I don't see the point in continuing to put out number one when there's a potential that if it fails we could be looking at huge problems Tom has any anybody uh put a pencil to the cost of that Western one that one you're talking about in The Future Has anybody costed that out no we haven't put together a project to actually estimate so what you're asking me if correct me if I'm wrong D is okay so when we hit this critical point with lift station 12 and it has to go into its own force me so there would be the construction of that Force main and then the other component to that which affects Lift Station 3 is lift station 7 currently goes down to lift station 3 and then it's pumped back up to the plant when this conversion for Lift Station 12 occurs and we go to its dedicated Force main lift station 7 will also tie into that dedicated Forest man at that time that'll be one project that'll give us more capacity on lift station three and push everything up to the this new Force man lift station one is going to be expensive due to the location and so on I agree that's why I'm wondering if anybody has really figured out what it would cost to go initially West on this one you're the dedicated one we have you that's going to eventually take over everything it will the new stuff yes um we have not looked at it that way I mean it just hasn't been how we've looked at it I guess I think that it might be cost prohibitive but maybe mark would have some insight on it as far as why it makes more sense to go to the station one for a short time versus building that dedicated Force M now and my guess is it's probably a lot more than the million dollars shouldn't be hard to figure out though probably not that's why I thought the you know they should do look into that as part of the whole study because lift station one is going to really be an expensive proposition du the location I think maybe Dave could have some insight yeah you're you're talking about costing out the 12 um 8 in Force main from lift station 12 all the way up to the wastewater treatment facility and um the thing is is you got to have some flow to fill that 8 in force man and the 38,000 gallons per day that we talked about that we figure will be generated that may not happen for 15 years um that sewage in that force force is going to be pretty Rank by the time it comes out the other end it's going to be completely septic and that's why we're looking at the interim measure a 6in force main um sure we can cost out the 8 in uh so that you have that information but we wouldn't recommend building that immediately what is the life expectancy of the force man on lift station one the force mean should last um you know another uh well beyond 20 years um with the type of material for the force Ms so it's 35 years old now mhm yeah so that would be another expensive proposition if that had to be replaced if the force meain needed to be replaced the existing force meain from station one yeah um hdp uh 6inch Force meain um you know we're looking at um synthetic plastic uh pipe materials lasting well beyond 70 80 years so you know unless there's something super abrasive that you're getting in your lift stations that's maybe causing a problem that way um you know we've even seen duct iron and pipe that have worn through you know and failed yeah so that's well beyond 50 years yeah yeah so what do we do now well I I I guess you know this was an informational meeting so you kind of knew where everything was I think what we'll be doing in our next Public Works meeting when it happens is we're going to discuss more of the details with lift station one the actual costs and we'll probably start diving into that and then uh figuring out a when for that to happen um lift station 12 would probably remain separated we probably won't consider this as a dual project right now unless something changes you know if there's some information that comes forward that tells me that we have to build a lift station 12 in 2026 or 27 well then we would I would probably still recommend well let's consider these two together um the reason being is is the money that we've set aside to rebuild LIF station one could help fund the bond for the two of them together with that bill um you said you mentioned that there'd be a couple potential things going in down there what's stopping them from going in now or what stopped them from find the purchase the property before the city bought it why why all of a sudden now or you just did a good job and dug some people up in the short period of time you know like I'm good at what I do right I I think that you know what the city's doing and making the starting the movement that's creating the interest and so I you know you're the Catalyst to do that yes you're kind of becoming the developer and so I think that you have to you know that's the part that's that's looking at it and I think that the nisah is going to grow in spite of itself you know and you're right about the planning and you're right about you know we got to get into the policies and and uh get that all in line but the way it's the movement's coming and so I think you're prepared but when you own the land you're in control you know and that's where this is just opening the doors so that developers can come or individual investors can come and start moving the moving forward with it so with that just the potentials that you have are they looking at doing something in the next year two years five years I think they would like to do something as early as as 2026 and start moving with that you know the other thing you know a little bit you know being my experience with county commissioner too we can look at all the costs on this and you're right and government moves slow and this development developments can move you know can move fast and slow down and and kind of adjust like that but the one thing that I don't think that we always put enough emphasis in because I think we talked about 200 and some homes you know the the potential that the you know these lift stations are going to do the money that when this gets developed the money's forever that's one thing we have to think about is that when that if they develop a Housing Development down there if we get in you know commercial development on that it's forever and we don't look at what the income and the potential is for our tax base to spread out for the local residents yeah if we look at shortterm and we look at all these extra costs yes it's going to add up it's a lot but again if we can look at it long term and say as we do this we're going to recoup this money and it's going to come to the city forever it's going to outlive you and that's going to be you know again the benefit of what's what you're proposing and that's the you know the the compliments that the count the city council has been getting is that it's the vision that you've got it's the it's the courage to move with get you know with this because city council members are going to lose their positions by what the community is going to see because they're going to see it differently they're going to see what it costs us and that but there's there's the upside is what's the tax base going to generate out of this yeah I agree and that's why we need that Economic Development Committee or you know other people on staff that has expertise in this area but with that being said my question you know that also is going to impact do we do station one or 12 at the same time well if you say hey there's a couple of people that are seriously interested in this in 26 well then that helps answer that question where it's just you know yeah then then we would do them at the same time yeah I mean the only we can't do that without it the only thing more sure would be if they actually stopped in and talked to Stephen for an application we don't have those you know that that's what's missing for for our part of it you know um as staff we've talked a little bit of you know we have the four quadrants you know it is quite a bit of infrastructure to be looking at as far as costs and what you do you know to kind of limit our exposure a little bit well maybe you pick one of those four quadrants well right now the city is somewhat committed to that South Southwest quadrant so that that's the first one so once you know that you can recover your costs there you prioritize one of the other three and that's one way to look at it but these are the kind of things that you would get out of this Economic Development I think is you know I think I've talked to you about the city you know they did There's you know their CI more of a normal shape I guess you know it's more you know you know there's no limit factors like lakes around it so it's like layers of an onion for them and so the way their Economic Development works is as they're developing this ring it's providing money to develop the next one and so on and so forth and so they have it planned out that way um I think out to like 25 years or more we can do that too it just might look a little different yeah and that's where I don't know maybe that's where the council needs to talk about either a getting somebody on staff with some expertise like that or B figuring out how to put together a group to figure this out one thing that's kind of pushed the city around a little bit is every time a larger developer comes along they're not looking at that area that we were ready to work on you know so we're ready say in this southwest quadrant but we you know you'll get somebody large enough they'll come along and say well I'd rather be up there in this northeast I got a project that I'd like to do there so we right away try to accommodate them well might be a situation where okay we already committed here into the Southwest the Northeast has got to wait until this has you know validated itself and it might Leap Frog the other two them but I think we got to be prepared to say okay Mr developer this isn't where we were we prioritized our development at this time if you want to do that you're going to have to take on additional risk for the cost of the infrastructure yeah that's where the policy got to change within the city now that's how they do it down in the cities SE well other than that any other questions comments thanks to wsn for the presentation I think it's useful helpful for the city I almost wish it was for the council maybe though twoo instead of just this group certainly could be another Workshop right I mean but seriously I think that's where a lot you know this information has to go to all you know to all those people at some point maybe they'll just watch the meeting but anybody else have anything else yeah there was there are no decisions we have to make this was this meeting was strictly about the presentation just for background information trying to set us up for our next uh series of meetings going into 2025 so I think the other thing you could expect for there is we'll start talking more about the 26 which might be becoming a 27 road Bond um based on some things that we talked about this morning at the the business development meeting master plan so yeah the only other thing you know if you all were able to put together some math based upon the package roads that are going through those different corridors with the cost of list station number 12 and that area down there what would the cost per acre or some sort of equivalent be so everybody kind of knows or sees that not that it's for this group but the council and everyone in the community I think would be interested knowing that information that might help spur development too if people actually knew what the real current number for that would be so other than that anybody want to make a motion to adjourn I'll make the motion I'll second oh so Kiki just asked me to check on check in with you um our next scheduled meeting is on November 27th but that's the day before Thanksgiving do we want to continue with it on that day or would you like move it I would say that we'd move it yeah I'll be out of to the only feedback I have is that you sent out notices to oh that's great yes I apologize Road yes impact people so you'd have to send out another one real quick if you want to change the date we have on the 27th also which I did not put into this packet is that we would have an open house for the 25 Road BMP we'd have a pot lock like a little pretty Thanksgiving warmup I can see what I can do so maybe just a quick headcount who will be able to make it for the 27th no 27th did you say who will or will not will oh will you can I'm out of town you make it Joe or I can make it so yeah be can you make it I'm out of town yeah I'm going to be out of town on the road too I'm not sure about cam well um I'm not sure how we will proceed with that meeting if we can't get generate a quorum we will attempt to find out what Cam's plans are how about the week before 20 I think but if we can't make it work on this date and maybe Jenny you can correct me if I'm wrong if we can't make it work on this date we would have to Ren notice that public information meeting so it' probably be likely into December I think the question is um I mean it certainly doesn't have to be an official Public Works committee meeting it's in an informational meeting that can just be something that just like brainstorming were with Seth and and you were just really introducing the roads and and the design I mean ideally we want the committee to be a part of that but I think maybe thinking about that for a little bit and seeing if if Cam isn't available to have a quorum do you want to proceed because it was noticed and we just that's the date and who can come can come or do you want to adjust so I I think I'm fine with providing the information I think between Bill and myself we can address concerns with the 25 Road Bond I think really what people are going to be interested is well what are you doing with my road what's it going to cost I think we can answer those questions this committee doesn't need to make a decision of any kind regarding that at that point so any of you that could make it would be great if you can't we'll carry on with the meeting and as planned and go from there I can phone but I won't be here busy okay we'll definitely have a zoom option if you can make it that way otherwise I guess um do any of you have any concerns or questions before we move to a journ anybody want to make a motion to adjourn yeah I'll make the motion I'll second all in favor gentlemen