Is it going to be Go ahead. >> Test one from >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I can hear you talking now, so we're good. >> You don't get to sit out here. >> Yeah.
Do you mind sitting up there, Joe? >> Yeah, I can sit up there where you want >> for one short. >> All right. Can you hear yourself? Yeah, I can hear you talking. >> We're good. >> All good.
Good. Okay. Okay. >> All right. >> Okay. All right. Let's dig into this thing. So, our
want me to give you a minute, Joel? >> No, you. >> Okay. Our first item up on the agenda is um discussion of the public works committee makeup and make a recommendation to the council. Um so, I
gave a couple of documents in your packet that you have in front of you. I apologize that I didn't get this stuff out to you ahead of time, but some of this is recycled from last, this particular item is recycled from last
one. So, um the first thing you have is um the appointment and procedures policy in front of you. And that that's uh regarding not only this committee but the the planning and
zoning and parks commission. Uh uh and the reason I gave this to you is um Dill's term on this committee is up and he has served two consecutives. So, I
think what I'm looking for on this is if we want to keep Dill on the committee to make that recommendation to the city council to wave that um requirement that he get off for one term and then reappoint him back to the committee.
And so I would Is that okay with you, Dill, if we make that recommendation? >> I would so move to ask for that waiver from the city council to allow Mr. Stack Hour to volunteer for one additional term.
>> Second. >> Um, all in favor of that? >> I >> I >> I'll make that recommendation to the city council. Then with that, um,
see, I think it's said on here what our makeup is. And so I think right now I wish Jesse was here because I'd like to get his opinion on this. But um >> Tom, the the appointments and uh procedures manual just indicate that the
committee is five members consisting of five from the public. >> Mhm. >> So that's that's pretty broad. So now now we have two city councilors on on the committee and three members of the general public.
>> That's right. That's how I understand it. And there's one open seat currently. Now, that's why I was asking the question about the makeup. Do we still want to have five um citizens on the committee in addition
or simply the three that we have or Well, it says five members and I'm assuming that means five members total including the the chair of the committee I I expect is is uh the city council
representative, right? That's what I think it's always been. Joe, you were >> Yeah, correct. >> And then and then four members of the general public, I would think would be the traditional way to do this. >> Yeah.
So that makeup, um, do we want to go forward with that same makeup or do you want any change to it? >> I mean, this is an advisory committee to the city council. So I think the more members of the general public that you
have on the committee, the more you know input from the general public you're going to have. >> Okay. >> Correct. I mean, >> right. >> Yeah. >> So would you would like to I'm just asking your opinion. You'd like >> I I would personally I would like to see
another member of the general public. Four general public members and a city council representative and the city council representative chairs the committee. >> Okay, that would be my
>> mine. Bill, what do you think, Bill? Yeah, I I think u it seems like part of the problem all along is that we have trouble getting a quorum. If we have too few, you know, it gets more difficult to to do that. >> Sure.
>> So, I think that'd be a minimum. >> Okay. Um any thoughts, Joe? I guess just from our discussion and what we had and at the council level and stuff. Um,
you know, and kind of I'll say, you know, knowing some of the past history before it was like this when it was just Tom and and a couple city council members and um and uh um
um the city engineer just the information clearly getting to the city council or multiple people from the council on here. Um there's valuable information
that is discussed here that just doesn't um that doesn't make that that just doesn't make it all the way to the council. no matter how it's sliced or diced or watching a meeting, um it's still a miss. Um example being WSN last
year, you guys remember when they came in, brought in Mark Halen, did that nice presentation on on kind of the whole water tower and the corridor down there with the city-owned, you know, I mean, it was more than a water tower
presentation. Um you you guys know what I'm talking about. Um that was very valuable information um and without bringing in uh those folks again more expense to the
city at least having all that we can have is up to two members but at least having a second member from the council here to also hear firsthand understand and be able to answer ask some questions is valuable.
just because trying to communicate that without duplicating a whole presentation every time like that just gets really tricky. And I guess though that's just a prime example of just kind of what I've seen from the council level or
experienced, you know, also to um not that we, you know, we all have our different appointments and committees, but you know, like the road stuff that we're talking about and and the road bonds and stuff, you know, um we're all getting asked questions and it and it
becomes more of a, you know, how do we make this efficient for Tom moving ahead? How do we get some insight? You know, how how does Tom keep multiple people up to speed, too? So, that's where that's where I see the benefit of having two council people on here would
be my opinion. I'm definitely not opposed to um anybody from the outside coming in or what that number is. If it's three, if it's five, if it's seven, whatever, like you said, that's great to have public
input, but I would like to see probably two council members here for the information going through clearly is kind of my my take on it from that side. >> Sure. Um, so I also put in your packet um, my
thoughts on that and I public works director recommendations. And so kind of I go into a little bit of the history of it. And to me, the purpose of this committee has been to recognize the need for and develop projects that address the need uh in the most
reasonable and complete way possible all while looking at ways to make these projects as affordable as reasonably possible for citizens in NSWA. Um to me there there might be a core committee um that would kind of as Joe was
outlining earlier where there's the public works director, the city engineer and the two council members. Um a report from these meetings would then become a part of um the public works department council
report. Um, and I would call that the core of the committee. And the purpose of that group is to take a huge volume of public works needs and information and distill it down to a manageable coherent project
possibility um that can be vetted by the whole committee and I would consider what we have here the whole committee ultimately approved by a city council. So what I kind of see happening is is that we have this core group that has
what I would call working sessions where we take a whole range of things that the the city needs to work on and we bring forward to this committee things that are that have kind of been worked on a little bit a little more complete and then uh this committee
would serve as that um public input into what we what we want to do. and we would get it from you or audience members at that time and those would be the meetings that would be set up more like this. Otherwise, the other ones would be probably held just in the
um conference room where we just start to look at things like if we were looking at a couple of concept drawings or something. I don't think we need to have a big public works meeting necessarily for that. Um in a lot of cases, now I could be wrong. This is my opinion. Um I'm looking for a little bit
of efficiency. Um, but I do think we need a committee like this for things like um the public information meetings that we had a couple months ago where we say we've got a road project that's about ready to be put out for bid. You need a place where citizens can come and
and have their input into what we're going to do with their individual roads. And yet you need more time than what's available at regular council meeting because you're you know you might take up to two hours just talking about that one project. Um,
and so that's kind of an idea I had. Now that might seem too complicated and maybe that's not how we address this, but just some thoughts that I had and I would like to feel it looks like you have some thought on that. >> What do how do you see your role then as
far as what you do here and then present to the council? I mean to me that that's your job, >> right? So, is there going to be a need to have two or two or three of you doing
that or can't one do that? I'm, you know, I think what's happening to me is we talk about a lot of detail things at this level and when we get to the council meetings, what has my experience has been is I give a report. It's
usually a like an quick executive summary of what we've talked about here. and I'll say the council or excuse me the committee recommends doing X and I found that that's not good enough for a lot of the council members and so
they start digging into the details of what we've already gone through in this group and so they're secondguessing your recommendation >> and so I don't know if I'm not putting enough information into the report but yet at the same time if I do that do
we have a half an hour for the public works director's report in the council meeting because that's what it would take for me to give them enough detail to satisfy what I think is the need. So it's my >> I think having somebody like Joe or somebody Yeah.
>> additional could help you put >> my feeling is is that we already have the chairman on the council. He's here and so he's usually hearing it. If we've got a second member, now there's two. And so when we get to the recommendation from this group, they should be able to
say, "This is the recommendation of the committee. We believe it's in the best interest of the city, whatever." Maybe they add a little color for a couple minutes. And then the rest of the council needs to take that and run with it. And if they had questions, they should be coming either to myself or the
engineer outside of the meeting, outside of the council meeting. And dealing in with those details. It's >> kind of a fine line though because >> it really is >> in a way you could do do away with this if you're going to already have three of you here.
>> Well, that was another option that I have explored and you know depending on who you talk to, you you get a varying opinion that maybe um especially with these big projects like the road projects, maybe those should be council workshops so that all the council is up
to speed and so that they all have to pay attention and know the details. Some of the council are very interested in that, some are not. >> Yeah. >> So, it's kind of where do you go? >> And maybe if I can, I'll just try and
help a little clarity or whatever. The current time that we're in in the city of Nisawa, we have a lot of projects going on, too. um what myself as council member and
I've spoken, you know, in great detail to Jesse and and kind of our workshop amongst the council is um it's it's just the time we live in. um people can put something out on social
media, any Facebook, whatever. And um it's just not accurate information. And and that is also to what we're trying to combat.
You know, I directly am getting contacted on a daily basis from citizens, you know, like let's just take something with the road thing and going, "This is what I just got. This is an email that I just got. I I gladly
share some of the exact stuff with anybody that wants to see it that I'm getting back from the public and just going, "Yeah, that's just not accurate. That's just false." and for us as council members also to help support staff like Tom and our partners with WSN
and stuff too and go hold on time out public perception that's not what's happened that's not what's going on um unfortunately there is a handful of people in this town in this community
right now that just really want to spin up just flat about lies and false information. And so the more clarity to come unified as a council and be like, "Yes, we all know this to be true. I was
at the meeting. You were at the meeting. We were at the meeting. We were with Tom. Let's move ahead." I find great value in having, you know, people like yourselves to be important. You you guys got a lot of knowledge, a lot of experience. I definitely want to have
that public input into it. Um but on the back side as a council member um this is to really help support staff and WSN making sure that that accurate information is getting out
there and that and that in this day and age um we're hearing it kind of out of the horse's mouth as much as we can right now is is you know to to sum it up. Another thing too that I'll just add
even like um yesterday I got the email again from that uh star sorry I pronounced his name starboard's office from um about the deadline it's March 6th we got an email hey there's some
federal money available do you guys have ideas for projects that we could kick back right away but the window was really short in time where like if Tom could call a little group of people and say Hey, should we put one, two, or three projects and send this back out
right away? Not as like a vote on, but just getting a little opinion on things like that that are short time time frame that we briefly talked about at the at the last council meeting where it's just it just doesn't have enough time to turn around in a full meeting.
It's nothing earthshattering, but like what do we do? So other things like that pop up it seems like more frequently where it's like we have uh well like this one we have until March 6 to figure
out a couple projects maybe to send out there if if we want to try and get some federal funding for. So that that would be just kind of another point but I don't know if that helps clarify or make sense but that's kind of from my point of view. >> Well maybe it's maybe it's time to
revisit the the uh policies or the appointment procedures policy. Um, you know, I think you you get to a point, you know, with with the way the direction we're going is to to where,
you know, you're trying to streamline the process somewhat, but you get to the point where you question, okay, what how how important is public input to what's going on at these meetings, which are
strictly advisory to the city city council. Maybe Maybe you go back and you and you readjust your your policy to um to have two city council members on there, but you keep it to where you you know four
or five members of the general public to that that's let me ask this. What are the other committees doing? Are they are they typically having two city councilors at at their meetings? >> They each have one.
>> Okay. So what makes this one different? >> No, actually like the liquor committee now two um there's two on there, two on the personnel. >> That's true. >> Be two on two on this. So actually no multiple organ getting to a point where
you're having more than one city council member on these advisory commissions committee. >> Correct. Yes. So, you know, like that. Um, uh, for just a multitude of of reasons, you know, even the last several months,
uh, yesterday, you know, another phone call with city attorney just about stuff and how we should be doing stuff. Once again, just to the real drive out there is to make sure that it's accurate and focused. Now to your point though Tom I
believe public you ask how important public input is from my point of view um we want it yeah that we want to know what people think about this because also two people are going hey I knew nothing about this I never had a chance to say I don't want that you know so I
want the public input at the same time though to Tom's point in streamlining stuff do we need the advisory board to go Hey, should we replace the pump in lift station number one with the exact same pump we had last
time or should we try the new model? Maybe that's a question where Tom, you know, just dumbing it down a little bit. >> Technical. >> Yeah, just maybe a technical question. Do you guys have any, you know, I'm just looking for a little feedback. This is what I think I'd do where he could call,
you know, just a couple people. it's not really something to vote on, but if he has just a minor question or something like that where it doesn't necessarily take seven people to figure out what pump to buy, more of a question. Hey,
you know, do you think we should do this? You know, of course, um, by Tom asking a couple of this, okay, yeah, maybe this what? Okay. Then he still has to prepare the paperwork to go to the council to get it voted on and
approved. It's not like it's not like that's an approval thing, but you know, should I go this route or this route to prepare something like that for the council? >> Yeah. I mean, he doesn't even have to talk to us, >> right? That's on his own. >> That's fine-tuning the, you know, what
the agenda is going to be for whatever committee you're talking about, be it public works or >> and Yeah. and have this committee do more the real meat and potatoes of the issues going on in town and some of these smaller things, you know, um
you know, if if that's accurate based upon what we've talked about, >> it can be. So, lift station pumps for instance, the typical cost is $30,000. Spending limit for my position is under 10. then
without a city administrator here you're now granted we have an interim but hers I believe is up to 10. So if I could bounce that off of a small group of with a couple council members on there now I have some support that yes this was an
emergency yes we needed to do this. So that would be one I one way that would be helpful. Um, and there's a streamlining thing kind of like what Joe's alluding to too. Like when we were working on the recycling
for instance, we bounced that thing back and forth between this committee and the council I don't know how many times. And it just seemed like it was just a decision that was being avoided. And what we ended up doing, I think, is probably where we were going to end up
uh which was just eliminating recycling. And we gave a lot of people a chance to reply to that. And I and I wonder from my from my own thinking on this is, you know, your council members are elected representatives.
Why isn't on any of these issues, why can't they be called if you have an opinion on it or question or even call me, you know, for the details, you know, the the technical stuff, they can call me, they can call the engineer or call me and I'll talk to the engineer with their question.
But I feel like sometimes we go to such a great length to get public involvement. And I don't want to say that we don't want that, but how much of it, you know, to what detail do we want that? And how do
we make it so that they feel like they're getting their questions answered, but it's not just sucking up huge amounts of people's time. Do you think having this subcommittee of yours would help that?
>> It might. Um I just feel like like this our full committee doesn't have to meet every month. We already don't meet every month and but I kind of pick and choose when I feel like we have a full agenda to meet. Um, but I'd say probably
of the 12 months in a year, maybe this committee only needs to meet six to to accomplish what we're working on. >> But this this core committee or whatever you wanted to call it, that wouldn't necessarily have to meet every month.
>> When you needed it, >> just needed. Yeah, >> it mostly it' be just, you know, because it's it consists of the engineer, myself, and two council members. Maybe you have couple of citizens from this committee on and you call them and whoever can make
it makes it. >> You're hoping that the two council members for sure can make it and then >> in other words, you don't have to have the public there. Is that the idea? >> Right. Because for me, if I have to have this meeting, I have to notice it in the paper. And
>> and there's no quickness to that. There's no turnaround. If all we're doing is advising the council, and this is probably a question for the city attorney, you know, how how can we do some of what we're doing in here and not have to have it be the public meeting with the public notice and the
time limits? >> I understand that. Well, it's called a democratic process, you know, to give people an opportunity to have input into whatever decisions are being made, you know, and and frankly, it's up to the city council
when, you know, this is it. You know, we've had enough. We've, you know, in our uh decisions, we will take public input, but you know, it gets to the point where, okay, that's
enough. We've had enough and now we're going to make a decision. But, you know, that that recycling center, yeah, that was a good that was a good example of, you know, things being kicked back and forth and back and forth. And I think in the end the city council did what they
did based on what how they felt that the general public was you know reacting to the ideas. >> That's part of you know >> and and so maybe here's my question that I'd like to know. Let's take the recycling because I came in on the tail
end of it and voted to get rid of it. But when I had learned on before I had got on council even what had transpired and that this had been kicked around for two years period of time and that this survey had gone out and this meeting had gone out and at that time I had asked
our current city administrator at that time and Tom too, you know, kind of we have been dealing with this two years trying to make a decision ultimately on where we're putting a dumpster
And we spent tens tens of thousands of dollars kicking that decision around for two years. And from my viewpoint, I would have made that decision a year and a half, six months because ultimately by
making no decision when everyone comes in here, I want to keep my taxes lower. I want to keep my property taxes lower, but I also want a voice. Well, where's the balance? That was a prime example of just wasted money because that got
drugged out way too long, way too far. It was we're going to set a dumpster here, here, or take it at home and do it because it was getting abused by everybody that didn't even live in our community.
>> Ultimately, the city was paying, you know, for for garbage service for everybody outside of our city. And so that was a real easy decision. And I look at back at it and go, that two-year period of time, all that did was cost taxpayers tens of thousands of dollars
of additional money that was unnecessary. And so that would be a direct thing. Stuff like that would be on my objective to streamline and not to repeat again in the future.
I wonder if some of these issues would if there would be um if they could be identified as uh you want to keep them moving, >> right? >> You know, maybe it's second meetings or in the same month or
I'm just I'm looking for ideas or suggestions because that was a big problem with that. And one of the other things I've talked to you about and I probably talked to a few others about is um one of the biggest complaints I get is how much we spend on on engineering.
And it's not really necessarily a fault of the engineer. It's so we start a project say like the 25 road bond. We started looking at that back in 2022 and what ends up happening is it starts to straddle
councils, you know, so the council changes, opinions change and we end up restarting the engineering over and over on the same project. We can't seem to keep this moving once, you know, once we've initiated it.
it it it'll stall either because there's a lack of interest in the council or they're busy with something else and it and so then when we come back to it now we have to start over with a lot of what was already done and I try I've tried to
explain that to certain people and they just don't get it. They they feel like somehow we're being wasteful and and it's come from even members of this committee, you know, it feels like well we're redoing the survey. Well, it's been three or four years since we did the last survey. And it's like, well,
there might be some new information we need to get. And so, I've been trying to figure out how I can help move the processes along so that that doesn't happen. Um, I think we tend to let um
a good decision go by the wayside looking for a perfect decision where we get every last person's opinion, every last committee rendering an opinion on something where is that always necessary and how if when do we decide how when it is and when it
isn't and and I >> I don't know. I I'm struggling with it because I >> don't want to tell anybody that their voice doesn't matter. >> Right. No, for sure. But you hit it on it's a democratic process. Like you said, Tom, you hit the nail on the head.
That has not been clearly defined in Nissa. You guys both know government worked in it, whatever. Um, I would say if you truly knew the inner workings on what has gone on in the recent years within the city and kind of currently
going on and what we've got as obstacles to um to work through um you guys would be appalled also too. Um I myself you you know I value you know
people like yourself with experience. I'd ask you what would be what you know you guys have a lot of experience. What would be the best thing because that's ultimately what Tom's trying to do myself the council. What would be a good democratic process to put this through
so it doesn't drag out for two years. It doesn't waste, you know, here's our SOP on we meet once, we open up to public meeting, we have to have a decision made or it's off the table, you know, and
kind of get some sort of repetition on this is how we like to operate, take on a project in the city. Just like what Tom said, even when new councils come in, my first question when I became a council member
that I asked everybody, I said, "Okay, I'm a new council member. Where's the packet of stuff? I'm filling this person's job." Just like, you know, coming in. Where did they leave off on stuff? What's the current update on all this stuff?
Where's this information? Um what what has been voted on? like where where we at? Nothing that doesn't exist to hand off to another council within the city. So like Tom said when it kind of repeats
like even though the job changes to try and my goal would be to try and get some sort of sequence going. So if a new council person comes in here working with the staff and the city administrator and our contractors and committees like this that there is that
democratic process. And so if you guys have a way, you know, or an idea, I think that's what this kind of is about, you know, and I'd love to love to hear that, you know, if you guys have any insight into that.
>> You mean right now? >> No. >> But but that's that's I'm just trying to talk openly. That's where we're at. That that's that's kind of the nuts and bolts of where we're at. That's what I see. That's what I see. I'm not pointing
fingers at anybody currently or in the past. It's just um it's been broken. It's been broken for quite a while. Meaning um if I go down the Crowin County in my
line of profession, I get a lot of permits. If I go down to Crowin County and even sit through a variance hearing down there and the cadence of the meeting and answers and questions and boom, you're out the door and
you there's no who's on first, what's going on, what's going on. That level of professionalism just doesn't exist in Niswah. And I want to bring that in. We need to bring that in. But some people just don't know what's
missing. >> And so, um, I want to bring that in all across the board. I'm not knocking planning and zoning or anything, but that's the easiest thing that I can relate to. You know, I tell people go to one of their meetings, come to one of
ours, tell me if there's any difference. It's it's like night day. I I think you got to be careful when you you know start comparing things that a lot of that is state statute. They have to do it this way >> and so do we. We're not
>> Well, I think you most of you know what we're talking about right here right now is policies that are adopted by the city that they're they're not, you know, statutory. there. This is the way the
city council wants to operate public works, you know, committee. So, you know, things change. So, if things have changed to the point where you want to change it, then that's a that's a matter that the city council has to discuss. I I think we've probably said everything
there is to be said about this, but I think the important thing is if you think that you need more than one city counselor on this, then do it. If you think that it's important to get the the public involved with this, you
know, then, you know, maybe have, you know, one additional city councelor on it and, you know, uh, three or four, uh, members of the public. >> Mhm. just, you know, because in the end,
you know, we're talking about public input hopefully from people that have some experience in, you know, what whatever we're talking about, in this case, public works, to add to the discussion that the city councilors are having.
>> Does that make sense? >> Yeah, for sure it does. And you know, then also from my point of view too, you know, like Dilly, you already hit this on the head too, kind of like we have a problem getting a quorum or getting people here. And that's just something
that I've noticed from my time on whatever group it is. I've been on the liquor committee. I've been on plain zoning, this committee, different things. It seems like we want the we want the city input or whatever. on each and every one of those. Then too, it's
just like you're on the committee and and you know, I'm not not knocking anyone person, but it's like I haven't seen that person in 6 months, 7 months. And that and that just seems
to be an issue that I would want to address as a policy too that sometimes quite honestly we've been up against. you know, we've we've allowed these openings to the public. They sign up for something and they never show up. And
and and from my point of view, that's not fair. That's that's frustrating to other people. You know, that's I guess I don't know. Um just something that I've witnessed. I think from a practical standpoint though, we need a little
bigger comm uh committee. We we found that out before, you know, in the summer people are doing things >> in order to get a quorum. >> Yeah. Just to get a cor. >> Well, we could certainly add at least one. Yeah. >> Because we're down one.
>> Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying a whole lot, but we we've had that problem continually. Um, when I notice any of you, if there's a meeting, is there anything I should do
different so that you feel like you've got the right notice to that there's a meeting coming? >> No, I'm fine. Do you think I should make phone calls or something or
>> No, but for me it's fine. Everybody uses the internet for everything now. >> Yeah. I just I I know that no one person but I think sometimes I feel like my emails are getting lost or something and that you know that's why I
followed up with you guys or the second email just ask if if you were going to be here or not. Maybe I need to send those out as uh I need a response when you get the agenda that you're going to be at the meeting or not. I think I'd like to have that. >> Good idea. that way I you know because
we all need to be gone for things right and that's fine so they have to figure that out and then being this is an advisory committee I'm not sure why this is a question probably for Tom Pearson and I
don't know maybe Tom you know why do we need to have a quorum I mean I obviously don't want to have just one person but I mean if that's the person that shows up I guess they make the decision right I mean if the meeting's been properly noticed and everybody was asked Um, this isn't the council.
>> I don't know if that's like a Robert's rules type of thing, you know, where you have a a public committee and you a certain number of members and to make a decision or to make a recommendation that you need a quorum. >> Yeah.
>> What Yeah, that'd be a good question to ask the city attorney. I mean, if we go through the effort and we get another person on this committee, we have the two council members here. I would say most time we're going to get three people here because if we have
five total people here to not get three showing up, >> there's a bigger problem. >> That's right. >> Yeah. >> Um trying to put together a recommendation for the council so we can move forward.
What would your recommendation be at this point? >> Right now, I know we need to fill the vacant spot. So, I would move to advertise for that. >> The other thing we have is we're going to confirm our get the waiver for Dill
and and get him confirmed back to the committee so that we can stay some, you know, keep our strength that we have. Um, beyond that, uh, the other recommendation I would have is that we continue with two council members. I think that's helpful because they're all
busy people and they have stuff and if this way we ensure that we can at least get one of them here most of the time I think that's helpful. Um beyond that I don't know if we have to like Joe's saying have a um
an SOP for these projects how they come to this committee how they move from this committee through the council so that you know within so many meetings some action has to have been taken. >> Yeah. >> You know there's a drop debt. Do you
approve this? Maybe it's just as simple as can we approve this project tonight. >> Then if they can't approve it, then it starts over and then there's record that it started over so that when we have additional engineering fees or legal fees that it's there's a well this is
why because we had to start over. Maybe that's trying to be a little too strict on it that it I don't you know the other issue I get and this is something that just occurred to me. Um a lot of citizens will say
well nobody told me I didn't know there was a meeting. Well heck we have it advertised everywhere and there has to be some public responsibility to to check in with their city too. I mean I can't mail out things every time. that's financially
impossible. Um, you know, if I I think this is probably some uh education for the council that when they get those kind of questions or comments from citizens that well, this
is where you can find what's going on in the city, you have some responsibility to do some if if you are interested in what the city's doing to look >> as part of the democratic process. Well, yeah, absolutely. Because I mean, I'll
even take the item agenda number four that we're going to talk about tonight. Once again, I've probably heard from greater than 20 people in the community, the citizens, downtown business owners, all up in arms about what in the world's
going on. Item number four, as we sit here and look now, where are all the people? Yeah, >> but they are after this meeting takes place by tonight, I will guarantee you within 24
hours, I'll get all the Oh, Councilman Hall said this. Remember, you know, Tom said this, D said, it's what that didn't take place. Show up here, be involved, come up to the
mic, ask questions. It's it's just it's just a whole different world when when you can have a keyboard warrior and sit there, but from today's meeting within 24 hours, we will have misinformation about every one of us, something that was talked and communicated tonight. But
yet there is nobody in the chairs and and you know kind of laugh but that reality is becoming bigger and bigger and bigger. You know, I mean, this one issue, item number four, I got a um I
got a thing that had probably the large majority of all the downtown business owners on from a couple weeks ago. Like, I mean, the whole town again up in arms about what's going on here. >> Not one person here. Not one. But yet,
they'll call Tom >> and they'll just attack Tom. I didn't know. What are you guys doing? accusatory. I mean, it's actually kind of crazy what goes on. >> I've had one person on this issue contact me, >> right?
>> To her credit, >> right? >> She asked questions. That's why we issue these agendas. That's why we put out the information. And >> is it is it legally necessary to have the public at our meetings? >> Yes, I Yes, it's it's an open meeting.
So, the liquor committee is an open meeting. All all of these committee things are open to the republic to the public. They all need to be open meetings record. The public can join anyone. It's it's public information. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I guess what I was getting at is we go
through all these efforts and I've had by no means all, but we have had a select few council members who will back somebody up that when they say nobody told me. You can watch these on YouTube. I mean,
that's the most common app on anybody's device. There's no excuse for it. I don't know. I mean, if if you've heard about it, check it out. I mean, that that's what I would suggest. But I would hope in the future that our council
would say that. Um, you know, come to these meetings, just like Joe was saying, come up to the microphone, say something. If nothing else, pass a letter to one of your council members and let them say it. >> But we don't get that. So,
>> and unfortunately, it's resulted in this kind of thing where we talk about is this the right makeup for this committee? Is this how we want to run this? Because it it seems like there's an inefficiency here and and we're like you've said Tom, we've kicked this around for a while now. S Bill, you said
it earlier too. We talked about this several months ago and here we are talking about it again and we've talked about it at the council level a couple of times. So maybe it's not a problem with the committee. Maybe there's something else
um kind of to close this out. Um do any of you feel there's a recommendation to make to the council other than filling the vacant spot? Yeah, I I don't know if you know looking at the policies as you have them right
now if you know these are these are practices they they can change you know based on what the city council wants to do. If you need to necessarily say like for us that the public works committee shall consist of two city councilors and
you know four members of the public or three members of the public whatever or if it can just be general like this and just say five members consisting of five from the public. I mean that would that could be two city councilors and
three you know members of the public. Yeah. And I and I guess your your other committees and uh commissions are are doing kind of the same thing. There's more than one city councelor on it. I'm just trying to keep this in, you know, what we're talking about, what we have
responsibility for here. You know, a lot of the things we've been kicking around are, you know, they're big picture stuff, but >> you know, kind of I'm sorry, Tom. I I was just going to say when you get right down to it, what we have, you know,
responsibility for is who, you know, who are we? What what do we consist of and that's what I think we should focus on and and that's a city council decision as to, you know, where do they want their advice coming from recognizing that, you know, it is a good
thing that that more than one city councelor would sit at this meeting. So you have two, you know, two uh sets of ears, two brains that are that are kind of, you know, processing this information. But on the other hand, it's good to have if you have some good
people sitting on the committee that care about what they're doing that they have input into the process. So it's a, you know, you don't want to get too big, but you don't want to streamline it to the point where it really doesn't make much sense anymore to even open it up to the public,
>> you know. especially, you know, if you can't even get a quorum. >> Great. Yeah, that that's >> it's one of those. Yeah, >> that issue with the quorum. It's not >> it's not just with this committee. No, I I'm >> Yeah, >> I've seen that across the board with
see. And so that's where that's where too it's just it's difficult for me when um like I say the keyboard warriors out there are doing all this stuff but yet nobody's stepping up. Nobody's quum.
Everybody's the armchair quarterback sitting out there somewhere but they're not here tonight. They're not helping get a quorum. They're not getting involved. And I I don't think that's unique to Nisa. It's our current culture. >> Yeah, it is.
>> Everybody complains about number four, >> right? But they but >> no complain about, but you don't. >> Right. Exactly. And and so my thing is like, well, great. You're just complaining to complain whatever.
>> I see a group like this like, thanks for all these complaints going on after the meeting, after whatever. just, you know, but you're just complaining, but you're not you're not offering a solution, any sort of advice, coming up here giving
you input. I really want to take that in and understand their point of view, but if they're not here, I have seen that stall stuff out. And that's what I'm saying for myself. I'm you had the chance, stall it out, make a
decision, move on to the place. I think you your responsibility ends at doing your due process allowing people their input but at some point in time decision has to be made right >> and it's the people sitting at this desk that have to make that decision whether to stall it out or just to say okay
we've heard from the public let's make a decision >> right >> I think one thing I can do that might help a little bit so what I've been doing for the city council is their council report is laid out by there here's the projects that we're working not this is what's happened in the past
month with it and I keep it on there month after month and if nothing happens I just say that nothing's happened so they always see it and and and so we're always coming back to that maybe that's what we need to do here is
here's uh the list of the projects that we've been working on and if they're not resolved finished they stay on that list and at the beginning of the meeting I'll just go through that and say 26 road bond, here's where we're at. 27 Road Bond, here's where we're at.
Lift station, here's where we're at. And maybe if the rest of the committee members are aware where these projects are sitting, more than just myself, you bring some pressure to bear on that so that it keeps moving. >> Yeah,
I think that's a good idea. >> Right. Well, um, so I guess in the recommendation I'm going to do is that we're going to advertise for the empty chair. We're going to keep the second council member coming and then we're going to get
Dill's seat renewed. >> Waiver for Dill. Okay. Um, I don't know if we should Probably just a quick vote on that. All in favor of that. I'll make that as a
motion. A second. >> So move or second. >> Uh all in favor? >> I >> thank you. >> All right. >> Just that was painful. I apologize.
Um our next item is uh we have minutes from August, September, October, December of 25, and January of 26. Now I I know that uh this is probably the
first you guys have seen some of these. Um it's okay if we table this for approval till next month. Um I've given you hard copies of those tonight. Um unless you feel you could move. I I would move to table them. I I would like to read them before I would move to
table them till your next meeting. >> Okay. >> Uh do we have a second? >> A second. >> All in favor? >> I approved. Okay. Our next item is the number four. Uh review the intersection treatments
for Main Street and City Hall Street. So with this item, this will I'll transfer over to Whitth. Uh, Bill, I don't know if you would like to get started. We have a a brief presentation that will explain some concepts that we have for treatment for this intersection and uh
we'll get some comment once we finish the presentation. >> Thank you, Tom. Um, so what we've done here is as part of the the council approved moving forward with a preliminary design of City Hall Street and Church Street, mainly because
there's some complexities in it that um require a little bit more examination and a little bit more preliminary engineering, I guess you'd say. So that's what we're working on right now is just portions of City Hall Street and um Church Street. And as part of that it
was you know the intersection with city hall street nisah avenue um lower cullen road and main street. Um so we had to look at that as part of this um preliminary design. So what we're showing here is just the
existing conditions that are at that intersection. Um some of the stuff that we talked about or we've talked about is that the everybody knows that intersection is at a skew. Um there's long distances between the the radius to
for pedestrians to walk. Um it's the alignment of the roads really don't line up. So the through lanes don't line up across the roadway for Nisa Avenue and City Hall Street. Um the intersection is a uh two-way stop. So right now City
Hall Street and Niswah Avenue have to stop. Um the sight distances on that road looking when you're stopped to make to see traffic oncoming traffic in both directions are not very good. A lot of times you have to pull forward in order
to see the uh oncoming traffic. Um the Paul Bunan Trail crosses the intersection about I don't know 40 feet east of Lower Cullen Road and Main Street.
There's parking along, well basically parking along all four of the roadway. Some of it's parallel parking, some of it's diagonal, and some of it is 90°. Um, let's see, what other things do we Oh, the the roadway intersection or a
lot of this roadway is fairly flat, so there is some drainage problems in there, you know, like at the intersection or by the post office. little bit of a problem over by um the chamber building and other places in the intersection because it's so flat.
Um there's concrete walk along parts of the roadway or along the east and west side of Maine. Um it's kind of a disjointed sidewalk system along City Hall Street. There's bits and pieces of
sidewalk along um Niswah Avenue on the south side and lower Cullen Road has sidewalk on the uh east side of the roadway. Um the main street ale house has
sidewalk on their side of the road. I don't know if it's really sidewalk. It's just a paved sort of area between their wall and the back of curb. Um, they also have a uh kind of a ped ramp to go up from the sidewalk or the corner of the
street up towards the building to a doorway. Um, some of the other stuff is uh so as part of this too, we're looking at the pickle parking lot and just how it intercheses in with city hall street.
Um, everybody knows city hall street and the pickle. There's really no defined area that defines uh the parking area in there. It's kind of an open sea of pavement. Um and there so there's what three rows of parking in there with perpendicular
parking. Uh right now I think the the city plows all the snow to the north end, piles it up there, and there's four botchi ball courts between the pickle
parking lot and the DNR property. Um actually the little ditchers, whatever is right in there. Uh of which I believe two of them are being currently used. So what we came up with based on these
um existing conditions uh we came up with the next with this option here which is called basically a traditional intersection. Uh the idea with this one is is that it basically just introduces um keeps it basically the same. Um tries to pull the
radiuses closer together so you decrease the distance for pedestrians to walk across like at a crosswalk. Um so like across Niswah Avenue um and lower Cullin Road and Main Street. Uh what we also did was we introduced a kind of a
channelized right turn for northbound uh Main Street as it intersects Nisa Avenue and City Hall Street. So it kind of gives the driver a the if somebody wants to go west or eastbound on City Hall Street, they can make that turn um
basically without stopping. It' be a bas a yield condition at city hall street, but I believe and then it creates a um that channeliz or that divider that median creates a uh kind of a rest area for the pedestrians so that they don't have to walk quite as far to get from
one corner to the other. Um so what we're also doing is showing a median in the middle at the Paul Bunnian trail so that if pedestrians are trying to cross going from you know, north to
south across city hall street. They have a place that they can uh if traffic is bad, they can wait there. Um let's see what other So, what we're also proposing to do is add concrete walk
uh along well along both sides of Niswah or city hall street um mainly from Church Street all the way to uh lower Cullen Road or Main Street. uh to basically kind of
um move traffic from Church Street towards uh towards Maine and u basically a safer pathway for the people to walk on. And then we're creating a median between or kind of the divider between City Hall
Street and um the pickle parking lot. that kind of helped define the parking lot better and helped separate the parking lot from the roadway. And then as part of that, we're realigning the connection between the
pickle parking lot and the uh um be the parking area that's just to the east of the chamber building. Um and then as part of that also, like I said, we're making connections with the crosswalks that cross
um cross that intersection. Um see, we're proposing to put sidewalk along the south side of Nisa Avenue and the north side and extending that to the to the
east. The the idea there is that we want to be able to have the pedestrians get out of their vehicles and walk to the sidewalk so that they're not walking in the street because there's no sidewalk for them to be on. But with this, they have that they can get off of the
roadway. Um same same issue on the north side of Nisah Avenue. Right now there's no sidewalk, there's no curb, there's kind of a a jagged edge low area basically.
Um, so we can build that up and uh extend that sidewalk down towards that business. I don't remember what the name of it is, but it's the white building. Um, and then make that connection. The other the other thing is is uh
extending the sidewalk along lower Cullen Road and um basically creating a curb with sidewalk behind the curb kind of going towards the to the west uh for pedestrians to walk on there too. Same
concept. We'd like for them to walk towards the sidewalk instead of behind the cars. M >> um and then extend that sidewalk where we're where we are proposing to extend it to the property line of the what what the
history center is using. Um but the history center actually would like for it to even extend even further to the north to go as far as it can go or they thought that would be a good idea. Um,
let's see. The other thing is is the side we're going to end up replacing some of the sidewalk on the east side of Lower Cullen Road to kind of match in with the profile and stuff like that with the roadway. And there's a slight geometric change on that side, too.
Um, as part of this project, we we kind of looked at the option of uh doing something with the pickle parking lot. If we expand the pickle parking lot to the west towards the Paul Bunan
trail, well, we might be able to get um additional parking stalls there that would in um similar concept as along Colin Road and other places is so that the they there'd be a sidewalk there so that if people were parking there to go to downtown, they could get out of their
cars, walk toward the front of their car, walk down that sidewalk, and then get on the system that would take them to downtown or wherever they needed to go. >> Um Oh, yeah. And I see our idea with the
pickup ball because we've added the or not the pickle ball, the uh botchi ball is uh we're talking about putting the botchi ball in the corner of the that would be the northeast corner of the parking lot, the pickle parking lot up against the fence for the ball field.
and trying to fit something in there for them. Um, think if there's anything else that I Oh, some things, you know, like like I said, this was a two-way stop. Um, what we're we haven't shown on here is that,
uh, we probably need to check to see if it warrants a four-way stop. Um, one of the things with a four-way stop is that you're going to have more, you know, people are going to be stopped there and and you're going to have a little bit more traffic backing up on um, City Hall
Street and lower Cullen Road because of that. >> Bill, is there any property acquisition that's required for this one? >> Um, yeah. Yeah, I mean there's areas where there's probably going to need to be some property acquisition and we need to
talk to the DNR about working um if not in their property for the Paul Bunnan Trail but really close to it and possibly on along Niswah Avenue and Lord Felen Road. Um but we did they were two
of the stakeholders or three two or the historical society and the main street ale house and the pickle the historical society was um receptible to um putting
sidewalk there and um kind of going outside of the rightway if we need to. >> So it wasn't a definite no by any means. They really like the idea of the sidewalk and a curb and gutter. >> Um, let's see.
>> Well, I guess the next thing is if you wanted to sh park stalls. >> Oh, yeah. Um, so what we did is we did a study and we counted the number of parking stalls that are out there and counted the number of parking existing and then
counted the number of parking stalls that would be there after the fact. So by expanding the pickle parking lot, I think we added like 32 parking stalls. They're going to end up losing um like three parking stalls with this
option mainly by the chamber because of that radius that we're putting in. Um, we Yeah, but they're going to add a bunch just across the highway or just across city hall street at the pickle. So, it
would be fairly close that they could >> have additional parking. >> So, what we have now, >> can I ask a question about that last one before we move on? So, um, a common thing you can witness every day is, uh, people going to the
ale house or especially the post office, you know, or any of those businesses along that side. People that are headed, I'll say, north, right, and then they need to get to the post office, they will commonly use that wide open
intersection right now to swing around, make a U-turn. with this design, how that traffic still has to U-turn somewhere somehow to get back to park, you know, that opposite direction with
the angled parking along that side of the street. How would they efficiently do that? Where would they go to get themselves turned around coming back with this design? Oh, the angle parking on Laura Cullen Road or or like in front
of, you know, the ale house or the jewelry store, the post office or anything. How do people get swung around to get coming back? You know, if if that wide open intersection isn't there for them to do a U-turn? I mean, you can put a camera down there. I bet it happens, I
50 times a day, 100 times a day. I do it twice a day myself, but I just I I it's a common thing. All that traffic has to get turned around and come back the other direction for just practical needs every day with people. >> I mean, I I think what would have to
happen is is that they would have to find another place to turn around at because it's probably not going to happen at this intersection with the traditional layout the way we have it. >> You got to go down and go down. >> You have to go down to another street >> and turn around and come back. >> Yeah. Because also too, even if people
cut before, if I'm watching this correct, and come up City Hall Street, can they make a left to come down that way? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, you can make >> or are they able to do that?
Yeah, >> because we we've laid this out so that somebody that's going northbound on Maine can go around that um channelized right turn lane, get into the queue for City Hall Street and wait there and in
order to make a left turn into the pickle. So, they can make that turn and go around and go westbound on City Hall Street. Um, >> and is that a movement that are those
terms something that you want? You know, just because they're doing it doesn't mean it's good. >> Are you It's just >> Bill, are you talking a two-way stop or a four-way stop? >> Right now, we're showing a two-way. >> Why? >> But well,
>> lower colon is >> lower colon right now is is is lower colon and main street. You don't stop. But this intersection may warrant um a four-way stop. >> Yeah, I think the pedestrian traffic there you can there's no option four-way
stop. >> But a four-way stop. >> Yeah, >> but I would I would ask, you know, just knowing how that intersection works and whatever, what is that going to do to backing up traffic now that there's a stop sign? I mean, I think
>> it backs up now, >> right? But I think that quick it's going to be jammed all the way up all the way past 18, you know, in the summertime. I guess I would >> Well, is the post office going to remain there? >> It doesn't matter. There's still all the other businesses. The ale house, you
know, at at noon on any given day, that place is packed out. You know, um there's with or without the post office there, there's still a need there. But I would just worry that that the amount of traffic going through town that there's
not enough stacking, if that's the right terminology, from that stop line all the way back to Lakers Lane that, you know, for the amount of traffic goes through there, there's not enough room to put in a stop sign for the stacking. >> Right.
>> Right. Um >> there might be congestion but it be safe. >> People are crossing. I I do it myself. >> Oh yeah. >> People are crossing in all directions there >> and it just isn't safe the way it is.
>> No. I will say this though or knock a little bit. My whole time on the fire department, I've never actually gone to a car accident or anything or a pedestrian hit or anything at that intersection. So, I don't want to jinx myself, but I'm just saying, yeah, you're right. People are just going
everywhere, but it seems to work. My question also too would be for Tom. There's no spot to put snow in downtown now. You have all them curbs, limited restriction to where you push that all to the north. What? And how do we do what what and how
do we do snow and what's the what's the financial impact of that? Because right now it's wide open. You can just take that loader and push right through there. But >> well, so of course for myself, it's been a little while since I've pushed the snow, but what I normally do with that
intersection is I push it up on the city hall street, push it through the pickle parking lot to the back, >> right, >> to the north end. >> But we couldn't with this >> um >> configuration, could we really? >> Yeah, I would still do it that way. Um it might be might take me a little
longer because I'm working around the concrete structures that are there. But that I would still do it that way. Um it it's where it needs to go and the little bit of extra time that we have to spend in the winter time doing that. I
I I there's some safety things I would like to to do here and I think this does that. it. I don't know if this is my pref I think I prefer our second concept that we're going to look at overall, but it it messes up the parking for a few of the businesses and I and I understand
their concern with that. So, but as if if we have to use a traditional intersection, one of the things that we have is our sidewalks don't line up. uh it's impossible for us to put in
crosswalks so people feel like they have a a place to be if if they're concerned about crossing the street. Now, I know a lot of us probably aren't concerned about that and you but there are some who are and I do
get a lot of frequent uh comments about why can't we have crosswalks there? Well, there's a lot of reasons why the bill kind of talked about earlier. Um, this is one way that we can get that. Um, I I don't see a huge expense changing
this, you know, for plowing. Just to kind of come back to your question on that, Joe, >> we plow most of the time early in the morning. There's nobody hardly in town. >> Um, I think this would be >> not significant. >> Okay.
Uh do you created a or Bill Newhauser created a video of >> Could we go back just for one more second? Sure. >> So one thing we didn't talk about here um and I know we I asked Bill to keep
this high level. We are and and you did say something about it being flat in the drainage. So >> Oh yeah, >> we are addressing later. We are addressing drainage and one of the issues that we have to talk about uh with the DNR uh in order to gain the
parking that we excuse me that we gained with the pickle parking lot is that ditch would have to be filled and so we would be installing drain pipe to make that drainage system still work. Uh with that we're hoping to improve the drainage that everybody is aware there's
a problem in front of the post office and in front of the chamber. Um but just to be aware that that ditch um behind the caboose would be going away. >> Well, just to keep on the drainage, then
you can see that triangle right there. We're proposing to put a pond >> um to treat the snow melt, dump it in there. We can remove the sediment um discharge the water back into the system that's going to eventually keep going to the north towards what is that? lower
Cullen Creek >> to the >> to the north >> to the north. So that's that's the concept with the drainage from this intersection area. >> One more comment I'll have on that. So the the sidewalk in front of the
historical society when we talked about that with them and and I've had some other questions about that in the past, extending the sidewalk all the way down to the hardware store. And so I think that would be the ultimate goal with this. I think with this project, we'd only be bringing it as far as the uh
northern edge of the historical society's property, but in the with a future project, we'd bring it the rest of the way down to the hardware store. >> Would you do that on both sides? >> Um, I think on the east side, I wouldn't
want to bring that all at this time. I don't know that I'd bring it all the way down to the hardware store. Uh it could be done that way. I think that's something we'd have to discuss if what would be the value to doing that. >> That would be probably like you said a future a future project.
>> I think the idea too is that you can always go to the Pole Bunny Trail 20 30 40T to the east. >> At least this would give us a sidewalk that gets down there. Um, I think if I'm the owners of the hardware store, I'd
appreciate having people being able to get down just by walking. So, if you want to show the conventional or actually I think it's listed as normal intersection like a video that's in there.
Oh, so this is just a video in three dimensions from our scan that we did a while back. So you're looking north going through the intersection. You can see the ale house. This is kind of an idea as to what it
would look like. build those concrete structures. Do you want to talk a little bit about how high they stick up? You know, are they some are they something that you could >> on the conventional intersection? I mean, we can make them as surmountable as you want, but a lot of times these
are like a B6, so a 6 inch curb um around the intersection with the noses being kind of flattened out and so that you could if you lost control, you could drive up on it and there'd be probably a sign at the nose of these things. Um
but yeah, on this conventional intersection, they would be B6 18 curb and gutter. >> It was one of my questions that I thought about, but now that I see it on the video, too, would since the L house
would be losing, I'll say all their prime parking right there, would we design it and allow it so they could have some seating out there like what is shown in the video? Is that something that would be entertained or recommended
or not recommended or the We talked to the people at the ale house, the Foys about this and they weren't as concerned about having additional seating out in front of the building as we thought they might be. Um, they're more concerned
about losing their uh whatever parking they might have might be using. And even if it's not for them, you know, a city property or whatever, just landscape it nice, a bench, you know, it it's a big enough area, you know, you
could put in a a smaller decorative tree, anything like that, too, just to enhance the >> the the the curb appeal, you know. Also, too, that island too, you know, you could I mean, just dress it up. Another spot to hang Christmas
lights. >> Maybe do some color painted. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just something, you know, I mean, just you're losing it. But rather than just have all concrete, I would I'd personally like to see it dressed up, you know, a couple benches sitting
around there just for the public to sit on and and rest. maybe some trees, maybe landscaping versus just all concrete on both sides. >> Another option for that, um, this some individuals been interested in wayfinding signs. I don't know if that's
a spot you put any of that uh in there. I don't know if that's something the city wants to pursue at all with with any of these projects, but just another option. Yeah, I I know a lot of businesses, especially,
you know, up or down the street there have talked if they're not in the main drag, it's hard to find. So, I think allowing that for businesses there would be a benefit in some manner. >> Are you talking about build a drainage
pond in >> where? >> Well, where where would your drainage pond be? >> Oh, in the pickle parking lot. See that where that triangle is right there? >> Um, and so we haven't really modeled it
quite yet, but the idea would be to fill in that ditch that runs between the pickle parking lot and the um >> trail there. >> And then that water would drain up that way >> and we can either divert it into the pond or just treat the water in the uh
or the storm water from the pickle and the snow melt >> in that pond. And then that can discharge back into the system and then keep going south and that would be treated water. >> Has anybody ever looked? Is there enough room between the outfield fence and the
DNR property to run that road that road all the way down and connect in with you know where I'm talking where you what is Murray Road? >> Yeah, Murray Road to just tie that little section together too to give another outlet that way out of the parking lot. What I was looking at is
when we were talking about the possibility of um a pickle a new pickle building, >> right? >> That that might be another access into there, >> right? >> Um what would be in the way potentially is uh the power line that's back there.
>> Mhm. >> Um that's kind of a main feed line. It's coming into the transformer um between us and and between the city hall building and the pickle. Yeah, >> it's a pretty significant line beating that.
>> Um, you might we might have to reconfigure that pole or move that pole to accommodate a pass through there if you were ever wanting to do that. Yeah. I was just wondering, you know, in
doing this, if we create more congestion, that could be possibly a way to relieve the congestion on this. >> Well, you wouldn't have to go all the way down if you want. I mean, you I don't know how that you'd have to talk to the DNR about crossing there
crossing. >> So, I think it back on the main >> what Joe was talking about there. I think there's a road rightway that extends all the way through to the east side of the trail. Yeah. >> But then you you'd bring all the
congestion into the to the intersection, >> right? >> No, it'd be parking lot of the pickle. Is that what you mean? >> Oh, yeah. Or another relief out there. People back out. You know, if that pickle parking I'm just thinking practically we're taking some parking
out of downtown. We're hoping by putting the sidewalk down and moving it over to the pickle. It's just going to make that parking lot more congested and it's emptying once again without a lot of stacking room coming out of there, >> you know, out of there and it's going to
create it. It's going to Yeah. out of the parking lot, it's going to create >> but it's going to bring it to the intersection. >> Yeah. It's just not a lot of room for that though. If if you know, if we're putting those amount of vehicles in there, even in the parking lot to stack and wait and allow somebody else to back
out. I just see that all getting jammed up where if it would continue north and that Murray Road would theoretically continue along there and get rid of a couple stalls on that end, they could just shoot out that way and it relieves some congestion.
>> He's talking here. >> We can look at that. Is that a crazy idea? >> Only crazy idea. I just think it has to be >> fences up here, right? That's right. >> But if you as part of the
>> then they'll come out of there and they'll come. >> We didn't they'll be coming. >> I have that idea. Didn't even >> Well, no. I think he was talking about crossing this trail to get back onto >> I don't think just extend that north,
bring it back into >> Well, it already comes it already comes out. It just you just run the road completely parallel with the trail until it pops out right right where you turn into the community center or the fire hall or whatever that's already teed up for on that end and it's just that
corridor >> but then you would run all the way >> to the pickle parking lot is that what you mean >> along the fence? >> Yeah, from the pickle parking lot to the entrance in the community center. >> Yeah. Well, one thing that I've heard from people who use the ball field is
that the ball field fence is short and uh balls especially in well everywhere tend to fly out of that ball field pretty easily when they when it's being used. So, you're going to have cars right up against the fence unless you
create a screen. Also, the ball field because it is undersized and stuff is not heavily used like a lot of other ball fields >> from what Yeah. From what I heard is that it can't get certain tournaments
because of the size. >> Correct. So, it it already limits the amount of use because of that. So, I don't know. But same thing, that's just a higher netting maybe to put along there. I think that would be an easy but I don't know. I just I don't think it's
a bad plan, but it's already very congested as everyone knows there and I just think some of this might add to the congestion. You know, it's, you know, safer. So, we're trading safer for more
congested. Tom, do you know is there any long-term plan in expanding the ball field as it sits to make it a >> I don't recall seeing anything that Amber had showing that fence moving towards the trail.
>> That doesn't mean that it that they weren't looking at that. I I would have to ask. >> Oh, sure. It is like 15 or 20 feet short is from what I understand. If that fence weren't moving, if you go back there sometime, you'll
see that there's a couple pylons on the community center road blocking people from driving through there because I believe they were >> right >> in in years years ago. >> Yeah. >> And so it doesn't get more congested maybe out of the Pillill parking lot.
You only make it a oneway. >> Sure. Oh, >> narrow and just and so it just has to relieve the pressure. People can't come back up it. >> Yeah, make it an exit only. >> Yeah, exit only. >> That's what I thought you were going to
do. >> That would make sense, right? >> However, if we do that now, we lose our winter our snow storage. >> Well, >> well, we could make you close it in the winter and still put snow there. And
this is a one way from May 1st to October 31st and then you park snow there the rest of the winter and put up a barricade. I mean we do have some other places we could potentially push the snow. It's just that one's been really convenient for us. But uh yeah, I mean there's
options. I just to be aware that that would be one downfall of doing this. But I I I'm not against the idea of uh having that northbound separate park. >> These are the things that I guess that we're all looking for is questions,
changes, ideas, and then we can look at it and get back to the >> team of people working on this. >> Um well, do you want to move on to the next option? >> Yeah. So, what we're showing here is a mini
roundabout. Um, a mini roundabout is much smaller than a typical roundabout like the one at County Road 18. Um, this roundabout can be driven over um by vehicles if necessary. So that round
circle median in the middle there um is a surmountable curb that's maybe three or four inches tall that I mean it can be lower than that even that um larger trucks um anything could be can drive right over it if they want to. Um what
we've noticed is that even school buses they'll try to go around the radius but if they can't make it they drive up on the curb and or up on the median and it's no big deal. Um, so that that's the the center island there. Um, the
diameter of the center circle, like I said, is um probably about 40 ft in diameter. Um, some of the traffic studies, you know, but accidents and stuff like that have proven that these mini roundabouts are safer for
drivers and pedestrians. um it really minimizes the amount of conflicts that a driver or a pedestrian has to deal with when you're going through an intersection. So, let's say you're going northbound on Main Street and you come up to the roundabout. Well, the first thing that you're going to do when you
come up to the roundabout 25 ft back from the roundabout is going to be a pedestrian crossing. >> So, now you have to be able to as a driver, you just have to see the pedestrians that are on either side of the road, whether they're coming through. At that point, you really don't have to worry about cars yet. Then you
go through that point and now you have to make a decision. Are you going to get into the roundabout or are you going to make a right or whatever? And you can go around. So, it just becomes a um for vehicles. They'll stay probably outside of the center island area
and they'll probably just stay and go around. some of the larger vehicles like um big semi or something like that might have to uh just they're not some of the turns for a semi like the large one WB62
this big big trailer they're going to have a hard time making some of the right turns on this um but they can swing out and we and like the little pork chop medians in between there those are in between like
eastbound and westbound lanes or north and southbound. Those are there to help channelize the the driver so he kind of gets directed in the right angle to make it into the roundabout and go around the curve. And it's also a place where pedestrians can rest or stop as they're
going across if somebody's coming from the other direction. Um, so they're designed to basically hold uh I don't know 6 8 ft across. So there's a little bit of space there for them to uh stop or something like that if they're especially if they have a stroller or
even a a bike I guess. Um, see some of the some of the other option or some of the other things with the roundabout is is that because of the design of the roundabout, you really can't
you can't really it eliminates parking where this uh median is. So where those four medians are as they're coming in, um parking isn't really allowed there um next to the curb. So it does eliminate
some of the parking in front of the um main street ale house and at the um chamber building. But like I said, it's they're much safer and it is it also eliminates some of the
parking on the north side of Niswah Avenue. Excuse me. >> Um >> it looks like the roundabout eliminates quite a bit more parking than the other design. Is that true or accurate? >> True.
>> There's a count on that. Like >> how how much do we lose? >> This was 15. >> Yeah, quite a few. Basically all of the ones in the main street ale house are would have to be
removed. The parallel parking on Nisa and a few of the stalls in front of all the way down past the park or the post office >> and from the FOY meeting that was the thing that they didn't like um
that they didn't like the loss of parking in front of their building. even though we are adding more parking um over in the pickle area, the loss of parking in front of their building they really didn't like. Um
yeah, that's a lot of parking to lose on that street for every business. I mean, >> yeah, parking on the south side >> was pretty >> borderline as it was because there's no there's no curb there at all or no
sidewalk along there currently. And so we had cars there, people have to walk out the main road there, >> you know, not not a very straight area to start off with. So, right, >> one of those parking spots is kind of >> iffy to start off with. Keep that in mind.
>> Um, You got a lot of special landscaping there. You see the red lines there? That's our current rightway. >> Mhm. >> And so there's a lot going on there that's out right, >> right? >> Oh, something else you can do with the mini roundabout in this case is uh like
we talked about before, you can color the concrete. You can make the interior of the mini roundabout whatever you want. You can put a stencil of something there. Um, see, like I said, I think the biggest iss the
big the nice thing about a roundabout is that it eliminates conflict. It's safer for the pedestrians and the driving public, >> right? >> Why do you feel that's safer for pedestrians
>> than than the other intersection? >> Mainly because of the amount of uh the the drivers only come the driver that's coming up there to the ped to the crosswalk. If they follow if they stay in the crosswalk, the driver only has
one place to see the pedestrian and it's right on his right or left. But when you come up to a normal intersection, you've got to look across the dividing line over to the next other side of the roadway or to the other side. So, they've got a lot more conflicts with
pedestrians and their vehicles. Well, I think all you have to do is look at the one they they put in over Grand View. You put it in, I think. Yeah. And see what you what you did there to protect the pedestrians. Now, I realize
it's not a mini, but it's still it's really hairy for a pedestrian to get to use that even now. And it's got all the lights and everything. And you can't you do that in downtown Niswah which people are swarming around
it isn't going to work. >> Well, but the other thing you have to keep in mind too is the distance that they're traveling is substantially reduced because you've got a safety zone here. So the amount of payment they're crossing is substantially less than what
we have today. So that adds to the as well. Yeah, that's on >> the thing behind. >> You think you're crossing less paving there? You mean >> Oh, yeah. A lot less. >> Yeah. >> It's basically one lane of traffic that you're crossing before you get into a
safe zone. The media or you just keep going and nobody coming. >> Well, I don't know if you've been around this while much when they're busy, but the pedestrians pay no attention whatsoever to cars. Period. and >> or where they walk in across. So
>> they they pay no attention. >> And that's one of the so-called advantages of downtown Nissa because people cross everywhere, anywhere, anytime. That be a terrible place in my my opinion. >> It's always been that way.
>> It's always been that way. Yeah. And and so my question is, you know, for the safety in the crossrock, right? We want to have safety and stuff too, but is the way that the town functions and
set up is it just irrelevant no matter where the crosswalk is? Because I would believe nobody's going to necessarily follow them anyhow. >> I agree. >> You know, they're still going to walk Kitty Corner from dinner at the ale
house. They're going to do the shortest line right up and over that new roundabout right to the pickle for their after after dinner drink as they do. You can you can watch it. >> Shortest point. That's where they're going to go. >> That's what that's
>> um >> I like it. >> I mean, yeah. Yeah, I like concept the the the roundabout there. Um I just had another question. I don't know. Has the chamber or anybody from
that group given any feedback about both of these designs about kind of isolating the pickle parking lot from the street? I'm only thinking the events and the kind of uniqueness of the town. You know, the lighting of the luminaries, the barbecue cook off,
um the different events where that city hall street is closed, the tents are set up, you know, and that's used more as a large parking lot with that curb and getting those functions in and out. Are there any drawbacks to any of these
designs for the for the functions that the city has going on on a annual basis? We haven't gotten feedback from the chamber. We've talked to boys with Main Street. We've talked to the historical society and we've talked to
Terry Wallen with a pickle. So, those are the three groups that have seen this so far. Terry did not have a problem with uh median and aligning the openings um when we talked with him.
I mean obviously he'd probably rather have it big sea of pavement but I think he understands why we're changing it. I Yeah, sure. I don't want to take all the historic land, you know, people's land and stuff, but has it ever been
considered for that Nissa Avenue to really cut the corner and sweep to Lower Roy going only towards like the hardware store and just creating a T intersection at that corner and everything coming off
the highway has to go north and then allow for a mini roundabout, a turnaround around or something already at the end of the fireh hall for people get spun around quick and head back into town the other direction and just leave
that a T intersection. Does that preserve all our downtown parking, eliminate congestion? The flip side of it, the the historical society is going to lose that green lawn corner space there, you know, and kind of swing
that up through the yard sign. But just you you can't come up and make a right-hand turn. You know, it just it eliminates them from the awkward connection of the intersection and directs them more down that direction. You know,
is is everyone >> peel off north at the about at the alley or >> Well, I don't know. >> That's what you were saying. >> Yeah. If you go back the other slide, I can you know how that Basically what it
would do is it would kind of you know from the old readabach chiropractor you know you you turn that road and then you straighten out Nisa Avenue. >> Are you saying you want to see this come up like this?
>> Yeah. So that intersection would be closed and that they would be basically offset. >> How would you split the traffic on that? >> Well, I don't know. Maybe it'd be right or left. But if there's enough room,
if there'd be enough room to just take this road, close this intersection right here. Take this road and move it right over to here. And so this would be a T. There won't be
a straight cross. Then it's turn, you know, whatever. But this all gets closed off. And it comes out over here. >> Oh. >> So, so you basically commut like this. >> Yeah. But they're just offset and then
it doesn't treat this, you know, here. And this just comes and turns over here and then you you gain a farther distance. Actually, you gain a lot of parking for boys. The downfall is they do lose this green
corner. You know, here I don't know. could be done or report but does that help all that to just make it more simple is that is that an option that whole area >> good I don't know you know
>> I don't know does that help I think there's talk about it just depends on the 371 changing you have two accesses in right this is one of them so by doing changing drivers.
Would you see that as a >> No, I mean drivers can still come off 371 there. It just it just gets rid of the awkward intersection right there by the restaurant. And what it does is it preserves the downtown parking and
probably actually increases the parking for >> so maybe >> I've suggested that too and I think the main issue we've ran into so far is that the obviously the historical society's against that idea
>> right which rightfully so they they they're they will be the group that's against it And but you know, does it solve a lot of our questions? I
mean, I like the roundabout idea probably the best, too. But I'm not necessarily in favor of losing that much downtown parking and, you know, doing all that. It seems like maybe it'd make it safer. I don't I
don't know. >> Um, >> and this will deal with traffic. This is the way to lose the congestion, >> right? It is >> otherwise you're going to have congestion. So, it's just >> is the parking important or is your travel, >> but you know, we have congestion anyway, >> right?
>> It's congested all the time, >> right? >> So, so yeah, with the roundabout, I don't know that traffic's going to move faster. And then also too, because nobody does do the roundabout, I would say that having it a little congested,
keeping the speeds down is actually safer then and increasing more parking. I that's that's where, you know, the opinion of the people in town or whatever in there to increase parking. That's that's always been an issue. But
yeah, this is going to keep the traffic going faster, but do we want it to go faster? the the design speed, I guess, of these roundabouts is 10 to 15 miles an hour, >> right? >> So, it's they're not going to be going through there really fast. Well,
>> yeah. To that larger roundabout that's speed on that larger roundabout, too. >> Well, roundabouts do a great job of moving traffic, but they aren't for moving people. Well, the nice thing about the this roundabout is cars are
going to be able to make a U-turn here, but a semi-truck. No, they're these are not designed for that. >> They would have to find a different way to do that maneuver. >> That's probably where the people would make their U-turn to go into the post office, which of course they can't do
because it won't be parking. >> That's what That's what they would try to do. >> I would, >> right? Yeah, I would too. >> Well, that's made to do that. So, >> yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Ultimately, I there's not a great option. It's >> part, you know, what do we do with parking and then traffic flow? I I think this is Tom, has anybody ever approached the historical society on that?
>> Um, >> on what? >> On using a a piece of their property there? >> Yeah. I don't think they're really um open to that. Um we would probably have to approach that with them again if you wanted to seriously consider that. The one thing
that they said that they would maybe consider is the city owns the property that the caboose and the buildings sit on the that depot building. If at the city's expense we were willing to move that over to their property.
um they would consider that and that would allow us to move this roundabout up to the north and east. I don't know what that would I guess the feeling was is that it might give us maximum room for parking at Main Street. Um I don't
know how much we would gain back to make that worth the expense of moving all that that building. And >> that idea has some merit. >> But >> the one that >> the roundabout would have to go to the north. Well, basically like yeah, like
to the northeast, but that median that's right by the on Nisa Avenue would have to move further that way also to an angle away so that we can get that parking back. Great. I
>> I think we got to get more parking. See If we leave this where it's at, what's affecting us here is these people here. When they back out, these people can't get seen. >> So, it's a safety issue here. But if you
turn around, they move this over here. And if we put more parking this way, here we get a lot more spots up here doing so. So >> yeah, you wouldn't have to move it that far north either. You know, just
make it come in at a 90° angle. >> You'd gain all the intersection instead of crossing >> moving that be safer at intersection. >> Basically what he said, >> um, I don't know if you'd even have to swing that.
>> I don't know if you'd gain the spots in on Nisla Avenue. by the main >> you'd have to >> that thing would have problem back in
>> and that median would still be there. >> Yeah. These medians can be only 3 in high. They don't have to be a full 6 in >> or the medians even necessary or could we just have the circle in the middle? Could we eliminate the medians?
The med >> the medians are necessary like to channelize or to make the people to find people where >> we can't just use paint. >> Well, but then you would lose your traffic calling. >> So I think Joel that kind of helps with
lowering speeds a little bit. >> Sure. Yeah. The only reason maybe I bring that up is you know fire truck emergency coming around there with those medians. We'd be we'd be driving over them sometimes. It's especially when town's congested
um to get out one way or the other. Generally, we'll go through town. Town's congested. >> We say we say kaputs with it. We go right down that road and we'll we'll we will still illegally cross there to get out on the highway. There's car wreck,
something like that. Town's jammed up. We are still going to go that way 10 times out of 10. lights and sirens to get out to get ourselves going on the highway the quickest. >> You wouldn't put in that roundabout then if you put if you move that street, would you? There wouldn't be any reason
for it. >> Oh, if you move the if you angle the street over. >> Yeah. >> Um >> then you have like a T T intersection. >> Yeah. The the only issue that I can see with the two T's intersections is that they they're very close together. So you
two intersections that are close together which might make it a little bit more difficult to make left turns and stuff but >> yeah it might >> I mean the problem this person come this way have to go this way. Yeah. >> Right. >> And that >> that would be uh not really good. But on
the other hand, it slow everybody up. >> Well, and you know, if you're coming off 371 and you're coming up, you know, to Nunes Avenue, most of the time you're coming in to get to downtown. So, they're going to get there and what are
they going to do? make. >> So I guess one of the things too before we went too far, you know, thinking this all the way through, Mindot, you know, has a whole proposal and everything where they want to close all these
accesses down. So for us as a city city spending a lot of time, money, effort on this intersection, I believe from the meetings we've been with Mindot and stuff that you know it's only probably a point of time where that
access is even closed down more or limited and talk about accidents or whatever that intersection out on the highway that is a common spot for us to go to a car accident or a car wreck, you
know, kind of like down there. And so that's a high thing. And I don't know if anyone has any feedback from Mindot, but if we took the initiative and closed that down with MDOT, would they help pay for this? Shut it down and just turn
that all in the parking, leave it be, and we solve the issue. And it directs everyone to the to the to the stop lightss. >> We have not pursued that. Yeah, generally what they talk about is
these driveways and so on, the crossovers on 371 that they're but generally they talk about it and they don't do many of every 20 years they >> you know like I I'm not sure but I thought I thought that study that
they're working on kind of stopped right at the signal. >> Yeah. >> I don't know if they made it down this far. I thought they >> No, >> I think it would be a place to park though, you know, >> because from, you know, like down at,
you know, um, Na Marine or the subway there and all those intersection, those are all ones that they've designated closing all through downtown this one. And as far as like accident counts, this one here has a high accident count
rating at it, too. Yeah. Yeah, at Nestle Avenue. >> Yeah, that that's also a a high count area for us. >> Was that because they can make the south? >> Yeah. Well, can they? >> No, they can't.
>> No, they can't. But but even still now I I don't know what goes on there, but it's >> they're jumping the curb. People are trying to go the wrong direction. They get down there. They get >> by by 371, you mean? >> Yeah. Right on the highway. Good. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, there's
motorcycle wreck this last summer, a car wreck, rear end there. I mean, I I can think of four of them just like that recently within the last year. >> Yeah. Because I don't know that they would change that intersection. They've already cut out the left turning movement south, right?
>> You know, that's where you get your biggest accidents, right? the highest. >> But my question is, you know, all of this goes back to budget, too. You know, shut that off and lock them in dot and just use that all
for parking. It doesn't interfere with the businesses. It helps the traffic flow. It gets everybody down to the stop lightss. They got to run one way or the other. It allows for more parking for town. And does it save us a bunch of money?
Tom, when do you have to pull the trigger on this to move it ahead? >> Well, so this is tied into the 27 road bond. So, >> okay. >> Um, is this the first time we've seen u these designs?
>> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, this these are concepts. I I just want to reiterate this >> design concepts, right? None of these options and nothing that we've talked about here tonight are locked in concrete gonna happen. So any
especially anybody that might be watching this on YouTube >> 27 road bond is what your plan >> right now. >> So so we're just looking at ideas for what to do with this intersection. We're talking about the some uh some options
within that these two concepts of how to work with this intersection and and um I nobody's had the perfect idea. Um and some of it is, you know, to use that green space for the historical society.
I mean, it seems so obvious to try to straighten that road out. Um it I don't know that we can solve this in time for the 27 road. That's that that this is that is a potential I uh hangup with this um because there's a
lot of stakeholders involved with this. >> Well, the the the road bond initially stopped at Maine. >> Yeah. But you can't really work design city hall street without knowing what we're going to do at Maine right now or
in the future, >> right? >> Because there's a really good chance we if we don't plan for what's going to happen in the future, we may not be able to put it all in. I mean, we can put anything in, but it would cost more. >> And the catch 22 is that city hall street, the pavement is in such terrible condition, we can't afford to wait
another five years to figure out what would be the best option for this intersection. Um, so we're we're kind of caught between a rock and a hard place. We I think we have to figure out this intersection in the quickest way possible. And maybe
this is one step now and then we we look towards uh some other steps that could be done with a future project further down the road. Um, is there some hybrid of these options that we've looked at tonight that could
be used that get us partway there? >> Might make a difference too with the post office. Are they going to move or are they going what are they going to do? >> So, what I've heard and this came out of our um stakeholders meeting um this post
office is expected to move by May. Now, >> I can't say that for sure. They the PE my source can't say that for sure. Um, but that's the latest >> where the lands are rare down there.
>> Yeah. So, there as I understand it, the post office is paying a lease on both spots here and then down there. >> Oh, really? So, you would think it would be in their interest to figure that out, but until it happens, I guess we have to
proceed as if it's you're going to be here. >> What were the votes from the property owners on which concept there? >> So, of the three of the historical society, Main Street Grill, and the pickle, they would prefer to go with this this version
as opposed to the roundabout. Um, obviously we didn't talk too much about doing anything in in the historical society's property there. Um, they don't think they were really open to that. Um,
the most they were willing to do is like I suggested uh we could move the depot building and the and the caboose possibly if that helped out. Um, largely because that's our property anyway. They're there by an easement as I understand it. >> And the most important issue being the
parking >> parking is what seems to motivate all three of them. >> The Foes for sure. >> Yeah. Foes inter the Foy's corner is the hardest one. >> Um, you know, they've looked at other options to try to get parking, you know,
behind them to the west in that uh next to the hotel. That's not available to them. Um and so you know they hate to lose anything that they have this particular uh option. Yeah, they know that they
lose three but of they and they recognize that there's some safety things here that have to be addressed. So they they supported this option if we were to go forward. So I think what we would be looking for from this group is
to me there's three options currently on the table. There's leave the intersection the way it is either this option or the roundabout are the concepts. Is there one of those three concepts
that we should continue to pursue? Or do we, excuse me, go back to the drawing board and have another concept drawn up like Joe was suggesting where we move that on there. But then we're going to have to go back and talk to historical society
with that with that concept. And >> I I would like to see that. >> Get their feedback on that. >> I would like to see that. >> One one of the issues with the historical site regarding that property was they use that property for I don't know several things
>> that celebration they have. >> Yeah. And and that's they're kind of a money maker for them. >> That's cool. One of the things they wanted us to do with any of the things that we do on um lower Cullen Road is provide access over the curb and the sidewalk for vehicles
to access their property and even through the fence and stuff. So, we end up putting it some type of gate in there. >> They like the idea of moving over there so they can charge. >> Yes.
>> Right. I would like to see Joe's concept uh investigate a little more. You know, there might be some negatives there that we're not seeing or I'm not seeing right now, but I think it's worth looking at. >> Yeah, I guess it would help to see an
actual drawing of it even if there may be some pros and cons that we aren't thinking about. >> Well, we can certainly look at that. I just don't re and changing that traffic for that drastically because that will have an
impact on traffic. >> It's not it's not the world's best but downtown this you need. So, does it does it help any traffic flow or anything to do anything with I don't
know, I'll call the road the parking lot just parallel behind the chamber building there that just cuts through from the pickle. Does the city even own that? Is that privately owned? Do we know? >> Say that again. >> Well, if we go
>> Yeah. and and we do something with oneway traffic or something through town and change the parking, >> you know, by allowing people >> behind the chamber to flow one direction. Does that help at all? I I
don't know. I heard this thing. >> We um an idea >> started to look at some of those kind of things when we were talking about the downtown plan from say about a year ago and any kind of discussion of one ways
was >> not looked at very favorably >> because we we had talked about the alleyway you know say behind the pretty good shopping and stuff too. Is there ways to move >> traffic one way through there? And we
started to look at those ideas and they just weren't well received. >> Well, is is >> the uh that area where the parking is where they do the the turtle, is that a road right away? >> I know.
>> Yeah, that's city street >> personally >> where the practice would be >> then the whole road has to be shut down during the turtle races, you know. So that just doesn't work. >> Yeah. I >> I guess of the three of what we've looked at so far, I think probably the
the conventional look is is feels like the best that we can do. This thing right here. And it was one that was supported by the three stakeholders that we've talked to
so far. Um, it would probably be a good idea for us to get some feedback from the chamber if they have an opinion one way or another. >> Um, we could have a drawing made that would show us
using that uh property for the historical society. I guess um I do think that they're going to be pretty animate against that. Um, but you know, if you want to explore that, we can.
at least look at it. >> So what what do we need to do tonight to >> I think right now what we were looking for is feedback on these concepts and I coming into the meeting I would have thought we would have gotten some um
consensus that this was where we wanted to go was the drawing you see up there right now. Uh, I feel like the roundabout option was kind of nicked by the people that have looked at it so far. Um, and they they had the most to lose by that going in. Um, but we did
want to show it as another way of handling this. I I think we're very limited in what we can do because of the existing buildings and the constraints of the highway and some other stuff, the trail. Um, >> I don't know.
you brought up earlier about road access. Can we look at maybe that too just to see what we can fit in there? What's >> Yeah, I think so. The the only other thing, you know, just I'll say segment segmenting the uh
parking from the pickle from the road where right now it's just open. Just thinking about people in the summertime. It is very common during the weekday at any point in time that the pickle parking lot is used for all our visitors
and tourists to park with that boat, that camper, that trailer because it's only spot to park an oversized vehicle with a camper and they pull in there. And so I just worry about those curbs allowing people to access that because then if that's not open then where do
they go? They're going down to the school to the Catholic church you know then then town really doesn't even have anywhere for an oversized vehicle to pull in and park
>> and and and that that's pretty common to see parked in there. that road going back alongside just >> Yeah, something something like that would be great. >> Well, how many So, right now, where do
they park in the pickle parking lot along the west edge? >> They'll park along the like where the botchi bowl where you've proposed the new parking. They'll park along there or they'll kind of park out in front. I'm sure you kind of seen it. you know, just out in the middle where kind of the no
man's land where where they're off the road, but they can easily swing back on. Uh that's actually probably a preferred parking. I think a lot of them are nervous trying to back out of there and so they'll just pull over like where that curbs at or would be proposed. >> Yeah.
>> You know, if if you've noticed that's a common >> Yeah, that's true. >> Yeah. Yep. >> Nope. Well, they'll park there, but more more they'll park >> this direction >> right there. >> Yeah, right there. And they'll park they'll park parallel with City Hall
Street so they can just get back in and keep driving forward right down the street, whatever way they've come in so they don't have to try and back any sort of thing up either. But that's that's a super commonly used spot for people like
that. Of course, now if we put in all the sidewalks and everything and if they had to park over by the church, now it's easier for them to walk back to the pickle, too. I guess I >> Yeah, it's just
>> Oh, it's a cat. It's a give one give it here and take it there or >> a curb there why keep them off but otherwise the plug access to the pickle for trucks and so on too that ser
you know they park in there. Yeah, we we've pre we provided a um entrance for the trucks to back in towards this um loading dock at the what would that be? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. And they did say they got some larger vehicles so they can just drive in the parking lot, turn around. >> But in that particular instance to address the concern on the south on the east side >> on the north side,
>> right? Yeah, that's what I'm talking about removing. >> No, we wouldn't have to. We were just trying to >> the idea is I think main the the the re the main reason for putting that curb in there as an island, like a raised island, was so that we could have a
pathway on the north side of City Hall Street or a sidewalk to get from um church to uh basically to Lord Cullen Road to basically be connecting the sidewalk that's right in front of City Hall
Street, >> right? >> Giving them a place to walk >> way. I see people parking there. Wouldn't you think they could just park on either side of that island? Yeah, they could. Yeah, it's just
>> And if we had a way for them to escape, they might park in here. >> Yeah. And then just keep on driving out. Yeah. I >> And we change it. I mean, it would change their habits, >> right? >> I I don't think it keep them from accessing.
>> I don't know if there's ways to optimize how they get in a little bit. So when you're seeing that happen or evidently not a lot of parking going on >> generally it's generally it's during the days you know people coming through town with the boat the camper whatever they p
pull in the shop go to a restaurant whatever they're doing in town but you know they're they need a spot to park and generally that's you know you see it here you see it down at the school in the summer they're parking down there
but yeah otherwise there's There's no other parking for anybody like that. You know, even a big RV. Um that's that's where they're parking the school, the church, or there. >> Yeah, I've seen people parking down by
the Dairy Queen on the road. >> Yeah, sometimes along the shoulder of the road. Yep, you're right down there. Well, >> so did you want a preference right now from the from the committee or >> I I think we want to look at some other
concepts on this and we'll come back to this next month with some of these things we've talked about just so we can see see them on a drawing. >> Yeah. Um, but of what you've seen so far, if you had to pick do nothing, this
or that roundabout, where would you be? >> Personally, I'd be here. >> I'd be here. This traditional >> Yeah, I I think, you know, for the parking, I'd be here, but also too, I would say before to me, we went too far.
I think feedback from the chamber, you know, from Kelly over there would be important to see what what their feedback would be on it. >> Do you think if we put some of these other ideas together that maybe we
should have some kind of an open house where we talk about this? >> I think that would be a great idea. >> Um that way we can get a little bit broader feedback on some of these >> things that we're talking about. Maybe we could do that as early as um
April or May. >> I think this is one of those issues where yeah, public input would be very useful. I But that said, not to turn into another recycling center de debacle >> or another backster.
>> Yeah, exactly. I I mean this is scheduled for the 26 road bond once again to be fiscally responsible with everybody's money from whoever >> what I would need as a council member you know is from WSN or Tom or whoever
the decision needs to be made now so we got time to acquire the land we're not rushing stuff and we have x amount of months to work with and then that information come back to the council we got to make decision in three months Yeah. >> So,
>> um I'm just going to look ahead a little bit. I happen to have a calendar here for the the project what we've been talking about so far. So, um I'm just going to try to get to the 27 project. So, the timeline for the 27
road bond right now. So, we're sitting in the fe February to April time period. And so we're still working on um 30% plans in Grand View and then and also this downtown area, but we want to
move this to a 100% plan. So that's why we're looking at these concepts tonight. um in order for us to stay on schedule. Uh so we were we would like to be at 90% plans
with this project somewhere between July and September. And the reason we need to be there is to acquire right away. we have to give the uh the city attorney a bigger window to acquire right away with this project than what we did with the road bond that
we just approved for 26. >> So >> I we want to be at a point where we're deciding a treatment for this um intersection by I would say July. >> You don't mean design, just concept.
um content by >> well I think we're going to be at a 90% plan with by then so we'll have wanted to gotten feedback say like I suggested in in April or May that >> that the engineer can take and turn into a 90% plan by July.
>> Okay. I would say the sooner the better, the April instead of May. If we can say that, too, because >> you know, we're just talking about concept. >> That ain't going to take very long. >> Shouldn't be that time consuming, >> but
for me, it's the it's a notification to get an open house. >> Oh, >> so I I don't think I can do that for March. I think that's just too soon. So, we'd be talking April. >> I think the April would be the early
earliest. I would try to we could have a special meeting for that sometime in April. I would have to get with some people and figure out a a good time for that. Um, first couple of weeks in April hopefully.
>> Yeah. I I think we can have drawings ready for the open house fairly in a week or two. >> So, >> Okay. Are are you going to are you going to proceed with having Woodsth look at that uh off of Niswah Avenue?
So that'll be one. >> Mhm. >> And then the traditional and then the the roundabout. >> Yeah. So we'll add in all the things that we've talked about. So they'll look at can we have that north >> and Murray is that Murray Street or Murray Avenue, whatever that behind the
ball field. >> Yeah. So we'll look at that. Um they'll probably um so we got that. We're going to look at um making the the two society. >> Um
>> so you're going to wait two months for that? >> No, no, no. Um we might be able to look at that at those concepts here in March, >> right? But where we're going to open that up to the jet, the bigger public would probably be at an April meeting. >> Okay.
>> And the only reason I'm saying that they could still come to our public works meeting in March and and offer opinion if they like, but I think so I get time to advertise it and get it noticed. I would need to probably be in that early part of April.
>> Has this been on the Chamber of Commerce agenda for their meetings yet? >> No. >> Okay. So that definitely has to happen, right? >> Yeah. So we'll I can get a hold of the chamber um probably sometime in either next week or the following to show them
these concepts and >> yeah I move with that. >> Okay. Second >> second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> Okay, that's over. So when do those concepts
be together? >> So I would say we'd want those concepts for the regular public works meeting which would be March March last Wednesday which is 25th. I the the only thing I'd add with
any one of these concepts though is to move that gazebo or not the gazebo the caboose and the building and stuff with all the concepts during this to indeed move that onto their property and get it
off the Nisa property is is what my recommendation is. That way they could make money on it also too. That's Nisle money. You know, if the pickle wants to have some sort of other little event activity there with
the uh botchi ball or with the chamber, any festivals, it also gives us more usability with our land to be more flexible. So, I would say that would be my thing with with this whole process to
have that happen. That would be my >> So when we're doing our concepts, we can use that property if we need to for to >> that. That's what I would say. Every concept will have that moved. >> Okay. >> That that way they could make money off
of it, have it on their property. >> Sure. I wish we had a little bit of a idea of what that would cost >> to move it. >> Yeah. >> Can do that. >> To move it. Yeah. >> Well, it's a train just there.
>> Well, does everyone remember when it sat farther up town? >> It's already been moved to there. Yeah. When I was a little kid, it sat up town. >> It probably moved there. I don't know. I remember when it was moved, but yeah, it used to sit further further up town.
>> The train car would be one thing, the building would be another, but I suppose you could almost swing a crane with both of them if >> Yeah. Well, they make house movers, I guess. >> What do they tell you about the people? >> Oh, power lines are right there. I think >> about the people. >> Well, they're behind there. Yeah.
>> Remember when it was out behind Boge Lumberyard, >> right? People >> in the in the woods. Yeah. >> Really? But yeah, there used to be that other one up town by the >> I don't know. >> I think so. >> I know there's stuff behind >> remember that. >> Yeah. Yeah, but it used to be >> like behind their new building or the
that >> between the trail >> and I think the matching thing I think >> Yeah. >> Kelvin Wallen has that whole box car at his place that used to be up now. >> Is that currently sitting on tracks or is it >> I think it's sitting on tracks.
I I I believe it's sitting on tracks >> contracts. >> They did a nice job of >> Yeah, it looks nice and they've put a lot of money into it in the last year. It looks nice and >> All right, I think this number five just to kind of move on to our next agenda
item just so we can wrap up the meeting. Um this hill crossing light discussion. So I think I'm just going to leave this as more of a a food for thought and we'll come back to this in March. What the council wanted us to do was to
look at a policy for when and how we add lights because what we feel is happening is that we're as we've added them, people are hearing about that and we're getting more and more requests to add street lights and they want to have a criteria
for when and how do we add them. Um the latest one we have is is Hills Crossing has a couple spots that they would like to have street lights added. One would be at lower Cullen and Hills Crossing right up there and then there would be a
second one um up closer to their buildings where Rusty's development peeled off. >> Um so that if you can be just thinking about that for next month, I'll put it back on the agenda. Uh, I'd like to just table that
and then put together some criteria for when and how we would add lights. >> Is there like a model uh street light policy that you can come up with or >> That's what I'm going to look for. >> Okay.
>> Um, see if there's anything. Um, right now we've been just adding them whenever people ask. Okay, sounds good. >> All right. Um, and then the last thing I have on the agenda is the 2026 road bond
update. And this is really quick. Basically, just understanding that the council is um approved the bond and um we're going to be opening bids on that tomorrow. >> Yep. >> So hopefully we get back a good price.
Sounds like there's a lot of interest in the project and uh by our we will have a summary uh presented to the city council in March. March 10th is what I have on my
>> No problem. >> What's that? >> That shouldn't be a problem as long as Yeah. As long as everything is uh good. >> Yeah. >> As far as the bidding and the >> How many bids do you expect though? Well, last time I looked there were four or five prime contractors, which is
pretty good for job. >> So, the bid opening is tomorrow morning at 10:00. >> Good luck. >> Yeah. >> Here. >> Yes. you do. >> Wait ahead.
>> Um, with that, uh, I just have a the FYI items. Um, I'm going to be after the bid opening tomorrow morning, I'm going to be out of town until Monday. So, uh, if anybody has any questions about the bids, you'll have to get a hold of me on Monday or get a hold of Bill, I guess.
Um otherwise um any issues or any comments from any of the committee members? >> I make a motion we adjourn. >> Okay. Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I
>> I adjourned. Thank you, gentlemen.