e e e e e is not far behind [Laughter] him wait my BR
Jessie next time it's around of drinks next time it'll be around of drinks yes nice to see you Cam how you doing are you in Florida Mississippi ah
whenever you're ready Jesse we can call it to order okay good evening everybody i' I'd like to open the Public Works committee meeting for Wednesday February 26 2025 5:00 pm uh do we want to start with the roll
call no okay all right well with that we will uh move to the agenda uh starting with uh number one be open Forum seeing that we have nobody here in attendance um take a motion
to uh move from open Forum we see okay all right so the second item on the agenda is to approve the minutes from the November 27th 2024 meeting do I have
a motion make that motion second have a motion in a second all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed so moved uh the third item on the agenda is to chapter 28 on-site sewer ordinance
changes uh Steve good afternoon uh so I have presented some ordinance amendments for chapter 28 as it regards to sewer ordinance um this is mainly pertaining to or these changes are pertaining to
on-site systems for use of holding tanks currently our ordinance requires under Section 28- 236 on page 7 uh conditional use permit um which will set conditions on the frequency of pumping and uh based on
expected usage recordkeeping and cessation of use if conditions are violated um I propose some changes there language to um rely more heavily on the monitoring and Disposal contract from the septic designer when they are
designing and proposing to install a system for a holding tank system um that would be the change in 20- 28- 236 next section is on page 35 28-
298 navigate to that real quick as it pertains to operating permits currently niswa has five types of systems that require an operating permit um such as systems with high strength waste holding tanks being one of them ssts serving
three or more connections uh type four and type five ssts and ssts that exceed a daily flow of 2500 gallons per day um the state of Minnesota has a um requirement that operating permits be
required on type four type five and msts msts being defined as those systems that use 5,000 gallons per day or more um and I have reviewed the state requirement and County requirements so that we don't become less restrictive as required by
Minnesota rule for these systems and propose these following changes my Planning Commission had uh reviewed these changes at the February 4th meeting and are providing recommendation to city counil that they approve um and we wanted to bring it in front of this
body as it pertains to the Sewer ordinance as most of that is pertaining to this body so any feedback from the committee for open discussion on this item no is this just for uh new tanks going forward or is this for existing so
this would be for anything new going forward um as I understand it our city has no operating permits in place so um basically retro and forward at this point now as far as ritro for anything that's out there
now are people going to get hit with this and not know so this would be more of a lift of restrictions um right now all of the systems that are in the ground had an operating uh not an operating but a monitoring and Disposal
um contract for each system as installed so that's an agreement between the landowner and uh professional that's a maintainer or a serer in the area that when that tank gets full that they are required to pump it um operating permits
are a little bit more stringent such as um receiving pumping records um and maintaining those documents at the city level um you see type four and type five systems implemented more with high strength waste coming out of um like
commercial restaurants where they have a drain field a lot of times they have to implement technology um maybe berating units in the tank that kind of help treat and uh reduce the biorganic demand total suspended solids and fat
soils and greases in those systems that by the time they actually hit the drain field they are more of a Residential Waste strength so quick question for you Steve on 28- 236 yeah so it mentions that holding tanks should only be used
on Lots existing prior to 1978 that from the State's language or is that ours so the language that's there without coloration striketh through or underlining is pre-existing and occurrent ordinance those um
portions of that section that have been stricken through are those that are getting removed the underlined are those that are being added so the the phrasing did say that um holding tank should only be used on Lots on as a last resort on
Lots existing prior to 1978 and let's see interesting so like basically that's prohibitive of new newly created Lots yeah I mean we're talking about systems that are Beyond 40 years old at
this point right I was just curious if that language was coming from the the state or from our ordinance that's just from our current ordinance so I didn't touch that part of language yeah as it as it reads
it could be interpreted to say that um shall only be used on as a last resort on Lots existing prior to yeah I think the 1978 should be removed so maybe motion or statute it
would have to stay kind of what I'm getting at so if we were to highlight and strike through proposed perhaps the language starting at on Lots existing prior to 1978 and a
yep it's one thing to note for the committee um with the central sewer system in places where we're converting over from on sites like this say like Hazelwood we not too long ago put city sewer up there we've given some people
permission to use a holding tank for a period of time that was uh we were waiting for that Central sewer to be installed so for instance Turner Towing well now it's um uh I can't remember who bought Turner
but anyway that particular business was using a holding tank they haven't connected to the city sewer as far I know they have 10 years to do that so it's kind of outside of the on-site ordinance that we have in front of us
but it gets kind of confusing because they're going from an on-site into the central sewer system if it comes up you know if you hear some somebody asking about that well why was this allowed this why we're doing that
and now newly created Lots if you're proposing to take a chunk of land and subdivide it in half for example you have to you have to have a septic professional write up a site suitability form for a primary and an alternate site for a septic system and that's basically
for your drain field not necessarily your tank because your tank you can pretty much drop anywhere but the drain field is more limited based on soil um present on site um I suppose I certainly could bring this
back to Planning Commission to adjust that language or just my Planning Commission is really only involved in this process as conditional use permits are heard by that body um so I guess their approval is to remove of that language um we [Music]
could probably bring this to council adding in that notion of striking and clarifying so that it reads holding shall only be used as a last resort and a monitoring a disposal contract
will be required yeah Etc ET ET yeah the only reason we would leave 1978 in there is if it's in the state statute right and if it's not in the state statute then you have a gap between the time period of 1978 and when
the state started requiring those Sate suitability forms so um could be motion to have staff review that requirement whether it's in statute and then if not move forward to city council so I'll make that
motion second I have a motion have a second uh any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed moved were there any other sections in your Steve that you wanted those were the
only two I guess I would just mention a recommendation to approve the changes to the ordinance as suggested by Steve and re uh make that recommendation to the city council that
those changes be made somebody can what's that oh I thought we were okay we're good and then we'll get to the council that's when the publish
okay yep okay we don't really make any decisions we make recommendations City Council just to help you different than P broken in a little bit okay agenda item number four any
Committee Member concerns or questions SL reports no I do not how about yourself cam no I'm good have nothing on my end either so with that uh looking ahead
anything I guess Tom from your seat um right now I don't have anything in particular I'm just trying to think what we're working on so we're currently still working on the um 20 what what was the 2025 Road
bond is now the 2026 so we had yesterday we had a a uh Council Retreat and we talked about that a little bit um we the council is uh recommending and we'll
both on um dropping um having a bicycle path on upper Roy Lake Road as part of that Bond so we'll be moving forward with that uh WTH is going to finish up working on um figuring out what we need to acquire for right of way and then if
whatever is uh wherever we need to get that largely it's for drainage issues um they'll provide that information to Tom Pearson and we'll proceeded to um acquire the right away that's needed and
then hopefully we'll be on track for that project to continue to move forward for 2026 construction um one other item we came out of that with uh out of the uh Retreat yesterday is the next Road bond
which we had been referring to as the 2026 Road Bond it's now the 2027 Road bond which affects some areas downtown um once we have ironed out RightWay issues for the first road bond that one we be
jumping right in starting to work on uh identifying RightWay issues potential RightWay issues with that road Bond and hopefully start ironing those out yet this summer or going into um the following winter so that we can be ready to go with 2027
construction and I think the consensus from all of us yesterday was to try to Advocate going that prescription repair route would you agree yeah so prescriptive easement so the way that was described to the to the group
yesterday um by Chad Connor with width is basically we're taking a roadway that's there we're picking up the old we're laying back down the same thing but new in most cases so um we're doing that uh in most cases we consider our
prescriptive easement to be 6 6 ft of RightWay so that's generally it's the width of the pavement plus about 10t on either side clearing for general maintenance and utilities um so that's largely everything we need to do will
fit with inside that prescriptive easement on most of the roads that we're um working on for next year and so there where there's a few minor exceptions those will all actually secure right of way um and then the can move forward so
right now it looks good uh there shouldn't be much um there are a few places where um a lot of the improvements that we're doing for next year are drainage related and so it's spill ways for that water to get off the road there may be some things there that
we have to clear up but should be pretty M so yeah I mean some of it is ditches drainage um with the trail being gone if that's the direction it sure helps that's five feet on either
side that we can work with should make that project quite a bit less expensive I mean a lot of in a lot of cases the the ditches um were the the areas that were outside of the prescriptive rights so I think that
there was just so much Lessons Learned From the goag trail project not just from the steering committee but what Tom had to do Tom Pearson had to do on the condemnation side and then the negotiations even just looking at that
um uh what's the road yesterday that we're discussing upper Roy Lake upper Roy Lake Road yeah uh of the amount of parcels that we would have to go through I mean we were thinking somewhere between three dozen to 40 42 properties
per parcels and that's just one piece yeah yeah yeah we will have um a little bit more work to do when we get to the next Bond because there's so much of it downtown and right we we'll be constructing things like sidewalks and
other amenities that will require us to have more um clear right away I think so Y which then goes hopefully hand inand with the revised scope for the downtown master plan of I think the clear direction from Council yesterday was to
take the initiative early on with wsn to get downtown this swap plotted properly plotted by so RightWay issues no no not specifically
but so um the survey so so there'll be a survey done yes yeah the I mean because looking at looking at what you even have to work with in the first place place so the whole notion of the downtown master plan
initially was to it it was prompted by if we ever resurface anything in downtown this Walk we're peeling back the asphalt perhaps we peel back some of the sidewalk all of the sidewalk on one side of Main Street for example and then
you go down that route of what can we do while we have this exposed at this exact time well how much of the sidewalks does a city actually own right now or versus the business owners then it went down talking with Steve and P andz
of these business owners their building lines aren't even on the lot lines it's it's not exactly drawn to point so having that data be cheed up and Contracting you all to be a through a revised RFP of trying to get a clear
road map of what we have to work with you'll see that come out formally but um that was a direction yesterday of before we even get too far down the line because with City City Hall Street being inclusive of the 27 road Bond right yeah
so I'm getting that one yes we have two streets on the 27 road bond that are downtown that's City street City Hall Street and Church Street Church Street yeah yeah and there might be some other improvements um I think there was a little confusion with this but uh
related to the school we'll need to talk about that a little further there's crosswalks and things coming off of church street right so but yeah and some of this uh survey work could be done as those streets are done so for instance a
lot of the stuff on Main Street may not you know we may do the survey work sooner rather than later but it doesn't have to be done in time for the 27 road Bond but we would have to do those items that pertain to the 27 road Bond correct Bill anything else from you
is there anything from you that you'd like to add no so one more thing I should add um that we talked about yesterday was lift station one and lift station 12 so um bills provided um the city council with
um a location of lift station 12 and a um what would be necessary for right away to reconstruct the station one so now what we'll be doing is he'll be working with the city attorney to give
that a proper um legal description for lift station one and then uh I'm assuming somewhere in the short term will be coming to the city council looking for um approval uh to go into negotiation to
buy the necessary right of way for Lift Station One to begin with I'm not sure what um what the direction will be for Lift Station 12 yet that's a little bit bit less clear we know bill has a pretty good idea where Lo station 12 will sit uh what the council's plan is yet for
that or timing we still have I think a little work to do so but that'll probably be coming up not too much longer after that's we didn't talk about timeline of LIF station one did we so what we have for a
Time excuse me a for a timeline for lift station one is originally we were hoping to do construction this summer 2025 uh obviously that is not GNA work so what we're aiming for right now is Summer of
2026 and I think just my rough feeling on it is is that we will probably be talking about lift station 12 at roughly the same time in order to allow for any development to happen there but we have to work out the council has to work out what kind of development they're looking
for and what that means for the type of size and that ended as a very open discussion I think with a lot of tweaking still needing to be done there different opinions on from some council members to the mayor in regards to
Future Vision of because that piece of land there granted owned by EO with the schafers to the north of that Eide 371 by station 12 there's been prohibitive restrictions I think intentionally placed by previous
councils like you alluded to yesterday the previous fathers of the city to try to maintain what whatever go through there but there are some positions from council members of trying to loosen those restrictions to open up the inflow of the capital Investments to have those
developments regardless of what they be obviously per whatever the The Zone District may be um I think that one's going to take a little bit more probably a similar type of event that we had yesterday to really
yeah get clearer Direction because it's it looks like it's in the middle right now yeah I would think that's almost going to be a workshop onto itself exactly yeah yeah I mean just when I was laying out or looking at 12 a little bit
closer it seemed like there was um a lot of unknowns as far as like the grading of the site the uh you know like what is it going to be used for you know where's things going to be placed in order to come up with you know fine-tuning I guess where lift station
12 goes and elevations and stuff they're saying like 30 35 feet deep could be trying to make it sh we can make it shall or I think we can but there's like there's like I said a few unknowns that
uh we knew a little bit more as to what the hell they're going to develop it we could probably change that a yeah I saw my first uh potential render ing of what that could look like yesterday the plot that you had oh the general Arrangement
yeah there's opportunity but it's really going to be stringent on what type of product Grand View or E talk is going to be moving forward with there which seemed like council member Hall had some good insight as to what that was going to be trying to get a meeting put
forward with that team so that information can be relayed to us then the Committees would be helpful so hopefully that's follow through on Tom is there anything that you'd like to no add I was late as well so if I'm fired
you're fired if you're fired I'm fired I guess nobody gets out that easy yeah I know okay well uh for reference our next regularly schedule meeting is on March 26 2025 at 5:00 pm Central um
unless anybody has any closing commentary we can oh God just one quick thing to mention with that so um that meeting will be tentative uh right now there's not business that would have to come in front of this committee but if something
comes up I will send out notices like I did for this one and we'll schedule a meeting otherwise uh that should be the date if if we have one so is the rest of the committee comfortable with that tenative meetings I'm sure you won't be complaining in the
summer months does that include your your proposed Street Improvement program for coming up so some of that stuff uh the council is working on that more directly so we had a workshop yesterday
I don't know if you were uh aware of that Tom um they had a retreat actually at the community center and they dealt with a lot of the issues related to the 26 Road Bond um so if there's business that the council kicks back to this
committee to iron through then we'll have something to work through but I think a lot of the road Bond stuff that I'm aware of right now will be worked out in workshops with the city
council so we'll be working on probably for the W for the short term that I that I know of more minor issues such as this uh ordinance revision that we looked at today is there a particular reason they circumvented this committee to do
that um some of that was at my recommendation I was hoping to more thoroughly educate the city council on the issues and given the dollars that are at stake so we've we've found that we're going through a lot of this stuff
here we're making a recommendation and then they're regoing through it at the council meeting so rather than do that I thought a workshop would make more sense with some of these larger projects um and so that's kind of why we're working on it that way uh it's not
to say that there's anything wrong with the committee uh or even the council I just thought it was more efficient to go that way and at least a couple of the council memb MERS agreed so that's the direction we're going thoughts on the
matter I'm not a fan of that at all I thought that was kind of the point of this committee okay yeah I I agreee with Gail and there I mean I I get that the council wants to be more involved and they want to understand what we're doing but
they're more than welcome to show up here and I never see them here so in my mind if they want to have more information there are seats there that they can sit down and they can ask questions at any point in time but to go around this committee to me smacks of
they have their own agenda and they want to circumvent this committee well I I don't know d i this is supposed to be an advisory committee okay supposed to advise you know go through it before it gets to the you
know the elected body and and I guess I'm a little bit surprised too Tom that you know you're just going to bypass and go straight to the city council I I can understand that I guess I I just feel
like um you know we end up presenting a lot of this information twice and it's regurgitating the same thing and ultimately there this decision body I wanted them to have a little more skin in the game I guess um that's not to say that what you do here isn't
important uh there are times where that matters and they may find that they would rather go back to this at some point um I think there was some issues with like for instance the right of way where we were dealing with City attorney and
um the uh um surveyor from wisth I think the city council wanted to know more about that now maybe those workshops could be a joint session between the city Council in this group maybe that's the way I
should have handled that but uh we can discuss that more I guess uh I can discuss that with uh the mayor and and other members of the city council and see what they think committees have vital roles I think in any City and any organization
Planning and Zoning for has been the committee that I've been on since actually I I was on Planning and Zoning before I was appointed as a council member three years ago this month I think the functions that they serve have a important purpose I think
that there's also a very different city council that we've had even when I was appointed three years ago the engagement from that Council three years ago versus the council that we have today not to say that it was less than it's it's just a different it's a
different feel now there's folks that are inquiring I think far more and you make a great point they can be here I could have been here and I I own that as well um I think it's absolutely worth consideration to be able to have
transparency across the board and to be able to get good feedback so um I don't think that anything is trying to be done maliciously here to circumvent a specific board or committee but I think there's opportunity for us to refine how communication is is being passed up
because there has been a lot of communication from the council that has been made even around behind Tom or any various departments we have some inquisitive Minds that sit up here the third uh third Tuesday of every
month so yeah I mean we certainly this is something that's um evolving so you know maybe this is the the night where they would have those workshops and then you guys could still for uh still be
advisors to them and make recommendations so and it won't be everything I mean there's still other things that we would do where if this would be the right committee to make a recommendation um there's been some reluctance to always accept recommendations and it's
and it's not that the recommendation there's anything wrong with the recommendation but there's just so much information and then when they hear it they come to a different conclusion in our recommendation a lot of time and it just gets frustrating to present this stuff over and over again and then have
different results happen from my end that's how it has worked out so well I I understand but isn't that the point of having the chairperson also be a member of the council yeah and you know I think it's gotten a little bit
better um our chairs have gotten a little stronger so Joe so that helps a lot I think Jesse will be that way too um we've had some chairs in the past who when they get to the council don't Faithfully represent what we've talked
about here in this group too so it's made it difficult for me as the presenter to try to work through this stuff my background is in utility power utility that's why I always felt like I'd have a good opportunity to work with Tom and
had to wait for a new mayor to be able to be positioned in that way sorry Steve as much as I enjoyed working with you and Bethany in the past but pnz is uh I like building things I don't like uh you know your side of the house is a
little sleepy sometimes but with that being said um my commitment my my knowledge that I have even for my age it's still hopefully something that can still provide value and it can be a well-rounded package being presented to
the council you know the third week every month so not that it hasn't been before you know I know that the council just recently for the 26 Road Bond went against your guys's recommendation um that was one that was
on that on that vote to go against and I'd be happy to provide my reasoning for anything as to why that's fine that's fine but you know what what I would hate to see Jesse is that you know in in for
whatever reason to streamline the process or whatever you want to call it you know bypassing you know a committee that's between you know the the staff and the city council I that you get at this level is is
important you know whether or not you you take you know the recommendations or whatever it it's still a step in the process and I know there have been some contentious issues that have come up in the past where it's probably you know lengthened out the you know what what
you would have liked to have seen you know time wise and and scope of project wise but you know that's just one of the things about you know city government is you you know you have to go through the process right I can give a little bit of Enlightenment there too Tom with what
you just said kind of jog something with me um you know we would push some issues like for instance when we were working with recycling we would work on that uh that uh project here we'd make a
recommendation of the council they'd get it up there they wouldn't like something that we had recommended or whatever and they'd kick it back and we'd sit there and play this pingpong but there was also a pressure to get it done and so it's okay if you want to get it done
fast then we can't do that and so my idea was let's let's do these things some of these more controversial issues or expensive issues such as the road bonds as Council workshops to try to cut
through some of that and you know this is really the first time we've done that so would that is that advisable does that work I don't know we haven't tried it so I think it's also worth reiterating what the purpose of
yesterday's meeting was the the the council Retreat it was not a retreat where we're having pina coladas we're sitting in that Community Center for eight eight and a half hours going through every single well a majority of every Department's punch list we're going
through the heavy hitting items because it's an opportunity for us to spend at least more than a designated five minute window on a on a regular council meeting night to go through top to bottom items and it it started with the Pickle Factory we rolled into then uh your
section on uh the road bonds going then into the succession planning for the chief of police we only have those once a year actually we I think the last one Kiki we had was John's first year in 22 well not
first year but first first year of a second t as mayor so uh to say that we'll have one again I think our mayor is ambitious and is going to want to try to put something on the calendar again um it is an open open meeting we did have some participants there for the
downtown master plan piece um but again you know full-blown circumventing also just noting like what the purpose of that meeting was uh the more info we that we have as council members it helps and just from my perspective the more
information I can gather it helps um I go through all 55 60 65 pages of the consent calendar each time when it's painful probably painful for you guys to put it together but I like to know why
we're spending 10,000 or $1,000 a month to Minnesota Power and I asked Tom the question my first month at Council memb like L electric bill and then the stoplight we pay for that so again I think that we we keep
this meeting going forward and evaluate things I mean across the board opinions are value you guys are dedicating your time from your families and your personal lives anyway too but everything's fluid and it is a new
council with with this mayor um there's a lot of fresh ideas I guess the best way I can put it so one thing I'll say about the 20 26 Road Bond right now is it's largely in the hands of of the engineer and the City attorney
so there's not a lot for us to do at this point they're working on the RightWay issues so that's why when I said this uh meeting coming up in March we may not have one that' be why we won't have anything to present so
understood I mean unless you wanted to see where we were at only thing I can yeah I I like to at least have enough information you know enough um material to go through that you know we're having a meeting that's
at least an hour long I think for us to come for a meeting that's 15 or 20 minutes doesn't serve anybody very well unless it's really important like in this case uh Steve wanted to get the ordinance updated so the only way we could do that
was to have a recommendation so in regards to that project do you guys have a Gant chart for a schedule to be able to provide some meat on the bone to be able to help forecast we did until the RightWay issue
we had a chart in order to like a yeah like you said a can chart to figure out you know like to in order to bid it for 2025 we had a chart like that but when the rightaway issues came up and that Gant chart kind
of basically became useless um but we could make another one in order to have for the 2026 shift it it should shift it to the right as all exactly um yeah so I mean we have a
schedule it's just changed by months like when we stopped we or when we we're still working on it we're just not it's not as uh quick a pace as it would have been had we been trying to do it for now
now all right that's all I have okay uh with that I can uh take a motion for adjourning this meeting all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed so moves meeting is
adjourned thank you everyone 78 date is going to be