good afternoon everybody today's Thursday April 24th 2025 it's 3 p.m we're in city hall room 244 and I call the city commission special meeting to order commissioners present or commissioner Dal Commissioner Langden Mayor Stokes Vice Mayor Emmer
and Commissioner Pes for present for the meeting uh also present city manager Fletcher uh assistant city attorney Coglin um police chief Garrison and who do we have from fire oh and police fire chief
Titus uh let's see kim do the honor to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all
assistant city clerk any public comments uh yes sir we do have a couple e comments uh Debbie McDow it is very discouraging when the original agenda posts and it doesn't include all the necessary backup materials only to have the agenda amended a few days later this
agenda has one topic a very important topic there wasn't anything in the backup when the agenda posted last last week yes it was amended Monday but that's not the point missing backup materials and amending agendas is becoming the norm rather than the exception
this isn't very transparent also the final report of PFM study isn't included in the backup my public records request came back as no responsive document when I asked for it why isn't it available pfm's report should be 100% available and in the backup materials otherwise
why are you discussing this today for what it's worth this is the third time a final study wasn't available at the time of discussion only their PowerPoint presentation a PowerPoint is not a final report a final report gives a higher level of details compared to a PowerPoint slide
presentation next public comment Hayward Hayward from many manuscripts of antiquity and that is all for e comments if we did have any e comments from the public audience I didn't receive any cards any any comments from the No okay
that is all mayor thank you sir uh on to general business one item 25-2193 discussion of possible action regarding the capital improvement plan and funding model uh prepared by PFM financial advisors city manager care to
introduce this item thank you Mr mayor um so if you recall this is the final item that we discussed that we will bring back to the commission for your decision-m opportunities and information on the financial side of what we've been doing just about a year ago as of
yesterday is when the decision and direction was given there were three different reports one was a fiscal condition analysis one was an economic development analysis and this third leg is the CIP the capital improvement project um report the goal of the report
was to encapture the entire universe of capital improvement needs our staff had presented and compiled a version of I think a 15-year outlook which was like maybe $1.9 billion at the time and not having that sort of scrub through all the departments and by our expert to
make sure that we were going in the right direction was uh extremely important so this document and what our PFM advisor Mr jeremy Newfeld is going to walk you through is going to show you the results of that action and how um those projects fall into the different
departments of the city of Northport once he finishes and you are asking your questions we'll talk about how do we take the next step of how do we approach the moving forward with those projects and letting the public know the plans of how they will factor into those
decisions as well so I'll turn it over to Mr jeremy Newfield i think he is going to walk us through a PowerPoint and information and then we can go from there appreciate it thank you pleasure to be uh back here in front of the group um you know we've been talking about this for a year i didn't realize it had been a year um but uh but this is sort
of the outcome uh of the model that was prepared um you know the focus point for for us was to uh layer in you know some of the work that was done by the real estate consulting group and uh you know
combine that with capital improvement needs that are upcoming and uh and required to facilitate the growth that is being projected so we're going to do a quick recap of a couple of the discussions we've had previously uh move through the overview of the the CIP talk
through some debt management and financing options uh and then happy to take questions and even along the way I think it'd be all right to interrupt or or stop if there were some questions on a particular slide so uh with that I'll move through the agenda
so as you all know there was a pretty extensive uh presentation that went through the the various assumptions for absorption and development growth and uh land use planning that's been uh that's been a focus point of ours um this is uh
the future land use map that was used with the uh uh the activity centers and things listed here uh the scenarios that were developed and analyzed uh you know was essentially a range of scenarios one two and three
from a a conservative to an aggressive approach and uh you know we we settled on u you know a range of of these scenarios just just to show the separation and it is dependent on how the absorption is actually realized over
time so it's a living model it's a model that's designed to be updated periodically probably not annually but uh every two or three years however often it makes sense to uh to take a look at it uh and we also have a 20-year CIP built into the model just to show
how those infrastructure needs uh could be layered in over time so the two major impacts we look at are fiscal impacts those are the things that staff is primarily concerned with uh and then economic impacts are the things that happen uh in and around the
community to include job uh growth and and that type of thing so fiscal impacts are the things revenues taxes uh as well as infrastructure needs and costs economic impacts are the jobs wages and output of production for the community
so the fis fiscal impact is you know is really the uh challenge of a CIP because you have to put infrastructure in place to support uh development and growth and that future land use uh you know those those impacts will eventually result in
revenues uh in tax revenues sales tax revenues other revenues down the road uh but oftent times those needs uh are required ahead of receiving those revenues um all the things listed here everything from essential services to uh to services that are provided to the
community uh are funded through this growth and uh you know there will be significant property tax revenue you can see here uh taxable value development uh you know from 7 uh 8 billion to uh well over 30 uh in the forecast here so
that's that's kind of the uh the way the growth picture looks uh that growth will be determined by the absorption of development uh and the ability for uh for folks to capitalize on on their investment in property here
so the existing projection you know was a much slower model um there's been huge demand uh to to the area to accelerate the development uh the ULDC you know recognizes that and essentially gets to a much more significant revenue impact
uh which is the good part uh you know the bad parts the CIP and and the cost of facilitating that growth these are the different you know uh the d the different economic impacts so the economic impacts are direct uh you know
those can be uh you know things that are uh a direct result of of the people in the community indirect effect are businessto business relationships and and folks that benefit from uh you know from that development and then the induced effect is you know essentially
just wealth and uh and income to the area and this is the overlay of how these economic impacts uh you know benefit the community economic impacts is typically what a developer would focus on and again fiscal impacts are are typically
the things that staff focuses on so the 20-year CIP is is a long range CIP typically you know we would plan for a five we would have 10 in in scope and 20 would be just making sure we're we're staying ahead of uh you know what's
coming down the pipe 2.5 billion is a massive uh capital project need uh you know that's supported by growth in revenues that are anticipated and projected based on the ULDC and you can see here that by
department uh you know the range is between 20 and and you know 78 $860 uh million dollars so a lot of road drainage work you know that's a significant need across the state um you know public works has solid waste fleet
uh fire rescue has significant needs um and clearly the police uh and the the water wastewater utilities have significant needs as well i have a question on this slide real quick sure as I was looking through this last night under solid waste where it
says 2026 you're looking at a million7 but then in 2027 it jumps to 16 I believe i can't see that far away but 60 million is that incorporating the possible building of the transfer station what why does it jump that high
yeah so it goes from a million725 in 26 to 16.7 million in 2027 and I think we have an answer coming i apologize that's what it is brother that's what
I'm assuming i just want that on the record because it's I'm assuming it's the same with fire down there with with their amenities as well for 2027 yes please um so in detail it's the solid
waste transfer station phase two i can't speak in terms of the what exactly that phase two means but that's what drives a a 15 million cost in fiscal year 27 right that's that's what I figured i just wanted to make sure for the record and for the citizens out there when you
see these big jumps that especially when it comes to solid waste we're discussing with the referendum and everything about the transfer station so when I see that up there I wanted to ask about it so thank you very much
yeah that's just a pony on that this this list or the the list of of capital projects that are included in this total number here include everything in the kitchen sink this includes I'm assuming
correct me if I'm wrong everything that might be on a CIP okay sheets oh yeah that we've looked at over the years all the certax projects that are on the certax list um it includes the three referendum projects the police
headquarters the uh solid waste transfer station the wastewater treatment improvements everything's in here there is nothing am I correct nothing of a capital project nature that is not in this that we know of right now i was going to say
that we know of that we know of right now everything's in here correct i just wanted that so everyone understands because you know typically historically we've looked at our CIP book and then we've had sir tax over here this is the total package perfect
can we allow public works to maybe expand on the answer from finance regarding the difference in that number there did you the question uh it was relayed to me you asked about why it was 16 and 27 yes that's for construction okay we have design prior to that um
which I understand i just wanted to make sure that it was hooked up with the transfer station and the building thereof yes you know that's that's what that number is that's what I wanted to make sure that the public knew on why it jumped from 2 million to 16 million in one year where's that money coming from
where's it going because they're seeing these numbers but they don't have any you know definitions on why these numbers are changing so that's that's the actual year of construction for transportation thank you very much right so the five-year needs are
significant 575 is potentially what the city has planned for uh over the next five years uh so this is a little more there's better visibility on these projects these are projects that are uh in some sort of a planning mode um just
wanted to break them out of here separately i got a question quick question for you under the police um fly 26 27 28 29 they all have uh an amount in there which I'm assuming is uh a debt
service number for the police headquarters why is it jumping to 19 million in 2030 is there either there's something else over and above that to another building roughly $10 million
that's that's going to uh Chief Todd Garrison for the police department that's going to be for the uh public safety training complex that's in the CIP perfect thanks yeah I probably could have found that if I looked in the actual details sorry about that
gotcha okay way to go ma'am nobody's perfect this just provides a sense as to you know by uh by department where the focus is in the capital program so you know this has been u you know the
the main focus of discussion how do we fund uh these priorities so currently on the on you know up for referendum is a police department headquarters project saw waste transfer station and a wastewater treatment facility those
projects are described here and um those are up for for approval next month these are summary details that show just kind of estimates on annual debt service for uh you know for funding of these
projects uh go bonds would be used to do the the police headquarters building um annual debt service would be about 7 million for that project um solid waste uh that would be uh solid waste revenue
so that's specific to that uh that fund that would be about 815,000 a year uh and then utility system you know that would be about a million dollars paid from wastewater treatment revenues why is the uh the NTE
uh for the geo bonds for at least 150 instead of 115 yeah so that that's a not to exceed that that's just what you know it's approved to go up to um actually it's not it's not is that a type 115
is that's why I just I mean it's it doesn't really matter that much you know but I just people are going to pick up on it and wonder wait a minute how come this $15 million police headquarters I'm supposed to vote on is 150 that is the number it's a not to
exceed number the 150 doesn't matter and even if the 66.99 a as an average annual needs to be tweaked down the purpose of this analysis is to see how the projects lay in and so you know that easily can be
fixed yeah the debt service mom is right so there's there's no way we'd get 150 million for 7 million but uh no thank you for pointing that out apologies current strategy at the moment uh since there was a failed referendum to allow
for general borrowing uh ability is to bring projects up periodically every two three years or as needed uh when priority projects have been identified um and and the affordability has been determined or or identified so revenue
source must be found to pay for the debt service that's um you know that's just unknown in budget capacity and uh and staff of course would manage the debt portfolio in accordance with the debt policy that was approved uh late last
year right now referendum vote is required for the issuance of debt that's been uh that's been the challenge here in getting some of these infrastructure needs addressed is that it must go to a referendum vote uh if it's not achieved uh you know there are uh other
alternatives to bringing financing in into place to fund these priority projects uh primarily there's three types that you know we would consider um and we would advise on certificates of participation which is a leaseback uh
structure that um that carries with it a a slight price penalty in the market so it would not be rated as high as the uh as the city's general obligation debt um a public private partnership would be another alternative uh that's
technically under um you know alternative finance strategies because that is typically a developerdriven process uh those are often times done as uh as leases so that would be a uh significantly higher cost uh that would
be compared to you know owning a house you would be leasing a house uh so that that's uh you know that's the structure for certificates of of participation that you would own it eventually uh the public private partnership is more of a structure where you would never take
ownership in that asset you would simply have the rights to use the asset and then privatization is uh is something that uh you would look at if you wanted to uh unload the risk of maintaining and managing an asset such as a utility uh
that gives the rate setting ability uh to a private company for for a private company to manage and and to execute on growth and development needs for infrastructure oftentimes that's significantly higher expense and uh and that's something that the city would
have limited control over if they sold the assets are when you refer in the slide to the financing alternatives are you primarily looking at the financing alternatives for the three uh infrastructure projects that are on the referendum
i mean they may these financing alternatives may lend themselves to other projects on the CIP list but this slide is directed towards those referendum items it is yeah there's going to be instances where
privatization you know wouldn't be an option there are certain assets that uh the city would not be able to um to release themselves of um the public private partnership uh you know that that is something that you know you can
you get a jail facility for example developed and built with private funds and then have uh no ownership in the asset no maintenance requirements uh but essentially all all that gets uh put into a payment a lease payment or a rent
payment to occupy the facility see the reason the reason I asked the question is these three alternatives certainly lend themselves to the three referendum items we have coming up for vote right
now um but there's more financing alternatives available for addressing this entire project CIP project list you know there's a lot more
in fact you know there's certax there's district and enterprise funds there's grants there's developer funding of projects and the reason I bring those up is it's important for people to realize when it's pretty sobering to look at
$2.5 billion dollars and go how could we ever borrow the money to be able to pay for all these projects even over a quarter to a half a century It's not that way the truth is many of
these projects significant number of these projects get serviced get paid for get financed through these other methodologies that we've been doing all along for 65 bloody years so when we look at how eventually this we take this
report you just gave us and carry it into the future as a tool for us to work on there are more funding alternatives so I wouldn't want the public to get the wrong idea here that like $2.5 billion has got to be borrowed for because like that's just not the case and we'll talk
about that more when you finish i didn't mean to go off on the tangent but it's important to say now because you were talking about the Yeah no I appreciate you pointing it out i think that'll always be a charge of you know city staff to to find efficient ways of leveraging you know the dollars so uh so
grant writing and you know looking at SRF opportunities and all that all kinds of ways all different ways right yep um you as discussed each alternative delivery option you know comes with it a cost uh a lot of times these are options
that are um you know considered because it it unloads some sort of risk that the city would want to um you know to offload so uh it's not necessarily that these are bad options it's just compared to how a traditional uh municipal
government would finance uh these types of projects it would be more expensive so yeah I think I always oversimplify the reason why why we borrow you know you borrow because you know the money that you're going to use to pay for the asset that you're
benefiting from and enjoying is not going to be available until down the road so um so for large capital projects you know it we've seen this over the last 5 years a significant inflation impact to budgets and what it
costs to to get certain uh projects completed uh there's rateayer equity um you know the idea of of payo funding for uh for certain priorities works in the instance when it's a stadium and you put
a tax in place for two years and um and the stadium's there and it benefits the community forever you know it doesn't really work that way for utilities and for solid waste groups and for things that are going to benefit for decades into the future um when those revenues
aren't available today um you know refunding for debt service savings and restructuring is something that you know the city has taken advantage of over the past several years we've brought refunding opportunities to lower the the cost and make make your debt portfolio efficient and uh and
borrowing rates are are you know pretty low i mean right now a borrowing uh for the city would be about 4% uh that's significantly lower than what a developer finance project would be about half uh you know what that would be in an efficient uh market
so locking in current rates while uh taking inflation risk off the table u and allowing for current and future rateayers and uh citizens to to appreciate the benefits of an asset is really what drives uh the decision to
borrow one thing that you know we can't lose uh sight of is is the ability for the city to function and manage through emergencies uh you know this area has been impacted severely and consistently uh the one thing we know is there will be another hurricane there will be
another storm event uh these are are massive events that require sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars to get through and then several years to to realize the uh um the repayment from from FEMA and other other sources so uh
so that's something that really would hamstring the city if there were an event that would require massive uh capital needs to uh to clear debris uh in particular but uh but then there's the the safety and and security aspect as well that the city's charged with
maintaining so we we spent a lot of time going through the debt policy and why we have it in place i think there's uh two primary benefits to a debt policy uh it allows elected officials you know a framework to operate within and make
decisions and set policy on uh it also allows the constituents to understand that there are guidelines and rules that will govern how those how those decisions are made it'll improve the decision-m it'll provide rational thought processes that go into it and
it'll it'll uh it'll develop some consistent reporting on the city's financial metrics and uh in a way that we can balance growth and and the capital improvement impact on on the city's revenues so we we've set up for an annual report
uh through the debt management policy and also in a good governance a periodic update and review of that policy so every 5 years uh there will be new things that change in the market new things that change with the city and uh and new priorities that need to be
factored in so that'll be something that a bit evolves over time these are sort of you know when we sat down looked at the debt policy objectives uh this is what we wanted to focus on uh fiscal sustainability uh debt affordability uh transparency and
accountability with compliance uh reporting um efficient debt structuring uh and appropriateness um you know the use of debt instruments and what is good practice and best practice uh you know
our focus is uh uh you know to preserve and enhance the creditworthiness of the city to be able to access the capital markets in a way that provides confidence to investors rating agencies and other stakeholders uh supporting capital improvement projects uh in a way
that's um you know managed over time and uh and certainly you know finance is is concerned about regulatory compliance and staying within the bounds of tax exempt law these are the metrics that were approved and this was you know based on a broad
uh sampling of debt policies for other uh you know like issuers uh in the state that that have more flexibility to issue debt so some of these are very um are very aggressive to to the conservative nature of how the city
would issue debt so this is something that will change over time and and you know maybe there needs to be more conservative targets over time depending on you know what the what the initiatives are and what the future capital needs are but this is based on best practice and comparable debt debt
management policies so this table just kind of shows you where you're at um you know with with those parameters you're clearly well above you know the special district um you know your coverage is is well above the target um so there is significant
capacity to issue debt uh under the rules of the debt management policy uh there's also currently very little debt uh on the books with the city questions commissioners want to go around you got to raise your hands we don't have a So city manager may I
interject some other information before you start your conversation absolutely uh the first thing I want to say is um the consultant was procured to examine our city's capital and infrastructure needs and present a CIP funding model so that's what they did they were not a
commission to create a report as you may have heard in that comment earlier that wasn't the exercise and you have now received a 150 plus line item that was attached to the document that shows you the detail of the funding model it doesn't get any more detailed than that and it doesn't get any more transparent
than that and when someone says that you're not being transparent because you didn't include it in the original agenda item that's a matter of timeliness not transparency so knowing that we had to get this information to you in a way that you could use during our budget
process and prior to what we had heard from other citizens say well how do those three projects fit into the overall universe of your CIP needs that is why we gave it to you when we gave it to you now in the future I know you're not a shy mayor but if you would like
something in a different format or a different time you will let us know but our goal is always to make sure that you have the right information when you need it and stick to our guideline our timelines as much as possible that's what we're always going to commit to you um the funding alternatives you know I
thought he did a good job of sharing what's out there i think that since we've talked about this $2 billion number in the past our citizens may think that that's all going to fall down on them at one point in time and that's not that's not actually true the purpose
of today is to sort of um get us all to understand that with a number that large and projects that many we must take multiple different pathways in order to get it done and we will communicate and bring them along with us the entire way
in in my mind I think one of the next steps that you as a board are going to ask for is to sort of um break down where some of the financing options that we believe some of those will come from it could be labeled referendum CIP it could be labeled um you know there
multiple grants there's multiple different options none of that is sort of tied to that number yet but as we tie it to it there has to be some sort of systematic uh structure where we say we don't want to hold special elections for projects unless we absolutely have to so then you need to be on a two-year
rotation of what you can afford what you can ask for the UODC money that comes in as Mr nfield talked about as well and how does all that roll into you achieving the needs for the citizens and I think that that is going to be a very long process and I think that we're
starting off on the journey the right way and the last thing I'll say u Mr mayor is that I can't stress enough that the inclusion of the um citizens in the debt management policy has to be there because that's what we heard we heard
that they want to make sure that we don't um overexert our credit we don't um have debt limits that we can't adhere to and all those conversations are going to become regular new conversations as we go forward uh for multiple years i mean this is this is really going to
change how we look at debt going forward and how do we take care of the city going forward and I don't want that to be lost on the information that we're sharing today thank you sir um let's start want to go around the room Mr dval
um I don't have a question uh basically you know a comment and it's u basically what our city manager was just speaking of and and it was on the last amount of slides and that's that we do maintain
that good credit rating okay that we do our borrowing when we need it the right type of borrowing and that we don't overextend ourselves so that you know the city does have an excellent credit rating uh you know it would be wonderful
if we get to that triple AAA but I'll accept double A um but that that's the main thing is you know in as Mr fletcher just mentioned um to keep paying attention to this as
we go through the next few years you know you know to do this now and then wait another 20 years before we do it again that's not acceptable that's all I've got folks thank you Mr langley thank you Mayor as
city manager and I were discussing during our one-on-one um and and perhaps this would be a next step is to for each of the CIP projects on this list to identify an anticipated
primary and secondary funding source um because I think that will help us sort of focus in on what projects can be accommodated through impact fees andor suror operating revenue whatever versus
those that we may have to consider bonds or cops or or whatever so I I know mayor said it and I really want to reiterate it the community should not think we're going to be looking to borrow $2.5
billion dollar over the next 20 years we have a variety of ways of funding things um and in our individual CIP projects which we will see during the budget cycle those potential funding sources
will be identified i think it's helpful though for the community and for me um at sort of this high level to be able to focus in on how we anticipate funding these various projects
and we also talked about maybe expanding our view from a five point a fiveyear CIP to a 10ear CIP something that keeps us in connection with the projects a little closer so that people will know a little earlier and we can we know that the the further out you look the less reliable it is but I think that it could
provide value to the citizens since we're we're putting all of this out here right now you know right there's never been a number this big probably in the city of Northport's history so we got to be careful that we manage it well in the messaging and how we communicate it so that everyone knows the right things
when they should know it and one other point that I hope the community would understand if something major in the city breaks these projects are going to go through a reshuffleling process because something else may bubble up as a higher
priority i'm done vice Mayor yeah and what you had brought up about referendums and stuff like that down the road and not wanting to use them that's why I say we put the task at
hand to where we review our CIP projects to where it would be every two or every four years on a scheduling to where if we see that need then we just put it on a regular election and not have to worry about special elections i understand the reasoning why we're doing it now because
of the needs and everything but down the road as we plan this and with what Commissioner Langdon had said with the different funding sources are we going to be able to accomplish it or not do we have to go out for bonds do we have to get permission to borrow and it can be
scheduled rather than you know having along the way yes sir so and there might be things we just don't do right possibly but but I'm just saying it could be on a schedule to where it's you know people could expect it okay what
referendum are we looking at this election cycle nothing right now but in the future we would have so that's all I have here mr petro uh well a couple things uh I have a question on the slide uh 13 that slide does not include the
debt service amounts or estimated amounts or is it just anticipated so this this is a summary of the uh of of the projects the projects that have been identified and no that service is
included or in the numbers it's included yes it's included that service for those three projects yes it's included for those just three projects just those three it's just those three and what about um inflation or cost
rising is that included in any of those projects or those three projects when we asked departments to do projections that was part of the exercise that you would in you know include the inflation in your estimates
as much as you could as much as you could as much as you could it's definitely what we know now right things might change in the future projects might get re prioritized amounts might need to be re-evaluated this is what we know now
or at the time when it was put together and also just want to make it clear for the public and I get this question a lot especially for the emergency borrowing question and that this question is more for finance I
guess they ask well you're going to have unlimited amount of u borrowing authority i don't think it's true can you relate to that and substantiate substantiate there's a limit of all of us what we can borrow right as
individuals absolutely it's same applies to the city absolutely to what criteria the city um falls under and we set those pretty robust limits in our debt policy we will manage those annually and make sure we don't exceed
those in addition no one has capacity to borrow we don't have lending capacity nobody will borrow will lend us that much money to exceed our ability to say you know comfortably pay it back if that is a very simple explanation of it that
Jerry Jeremy could give a much better but nobody can borrow endless amounts of money even a city yeah and just example you know when a hurricane hits you know there's initial assessments and initial costs and and there's your 30 days 90
days there's all these time frames you got to hit for FEMA reimbursement eligible projects so you typically there's an emergency funding approval uh through resolution and then you would take pieces as you need it um Bay County for example they approved 300 million of
funding after Hurricane Michael it took him a couple of years to to ramp up to that amount of borrowing but you know the the bank was very involved in the credit discussion and the timeliness of the FEMA reimbursements and the ability
to cover interest payments and then at the end of the day what's the solution for what's left and you know so programs like that that was in 2018 uh you know they still have 100 million outstanding and they're still working through that at the end of the day
you're going to have a fix out and there's going to be a burden on the taxpayers for whatever that fix out is but over that four five six year period after the event you're you're essentially doing triage to get uh you
funding in place so it doesn't impact your ability to deliver services on your normal basis uh but but there is a limit to to how much a bank is going to be willing to extend the city sure and it does make sense because you got to service that debt and if we cannot
service the city that debt we cannot borrow more than we can borrow so I just want to make it clear for the public because they some of them think we can borrow unlimited amount of money and go on a shopping spree i mean we and it's only for the one of the referendum
questions only applies to that emergency situation so yeah i know it's it's a you know it's a nuanced discussion that finance has with banks when we go through that process or with investors when we're taking a a bond transaction to the
market but you know a double A credit requires you know an 800 credit score would be you know probably a double A minus or an A+ so double A credit you know there's a significant amount of focus on those metrics and how you know
you're going to afford the debt service payments and still do all the things that you're charged with doing and also uh the last question I have on the summary of 20 years CIP is there any inclusion of conversion from
private well and septic to public or was not this item was not included conversion to all in maybe I missed it i I can answer that so build assistant
director there is a line item there for expansion it is named wastewater expansion it includes the water and wastewater expansion into the neighborhoods it's under Oh I'm sorry it's under utility wastewater systems
the second from the last project there it says water/wastewater line extensions could you tell which slide are you looking oh I'm sorry it's on the 20-year projection slide that you were just looking at
so it's in the attachment that has all of the details the slides are a summary of those but if you look at the attachment and you scroll down under utility wastewater systems okay she's referring back to the 150 line
item document that was attached in the back that I was referencing that's the detail that she's saying is in there to answer your question commission all right quick quick question um question for you
um excuse me in preparing the four sheets that lay out project by project um how were I mean I assume and correct
me if I'm wrong these projects each department came up with their wants and their needs they presented them um they were scheduled out
what what was the criteria used if any for how they were timelined over the 25 years i mean was there I mean what you know h how was it
determined or what thought process went into that i think that was up up to our our directors and their expertise and knowing what we're going to need and when and yes they they put those in the
timing when we will need those because you know one thing I mean first of all I want to say this was long overdue and and perhaps there was maybe a public perception about what all this report
might do for us as a city this whether it's a anything from a nothing burger to a silver bullet that's going to all of a sudden explain how all these projects are going to get done this is a tool this was the attempt to finally
wrap our arms around a couple of billion dollars worth of projects that were hither thither and yan in the way we tracked them and and accounted for them or or or listed them we had certax lists we have CIP list we have a notebook and
you go page by page every budget year and this puts it on to four pages that lists them that schedules them out it doesn't prioritize them it doesn't talk about how they're going to be paid for
it's an attempt to say this is the master list and and as I alluded to earlier and Commissioner Langden referenced there really are a ton of ways in which you think about for 65
years without borrowing capability it's not like no projects were ever done and every year when the budget process takes place you know first of all we got what on our fourth rendition of sir tax so there's in this 15-year bucket
approximating $400 million worth of sir tax now a big chunk of it's obviously going to Price Boulevard but there are certax projects in these schedules that are allocated to be funded and paid for by certax our district and enterprise
funds since we didn't have borrowing ability within their budgeting processes provide for financial resources in their budgeting to help pay for these a series of projects and and there have been many of them a lot of the water structures
some of the other things we do you know we bill out our our usage and part of it is a reserve for capital improvements and that's the only way we've had to really fund this stuff without going to public referendum then there's grants which we have gotten better and better
at going after and even in this skitsy kind of climate in Tallahassee and at the federal level you know those things cycle out and while we've had a tight year or two you know in time things loosen up they tighten up they loosen up again so there's grants that are going
to help support many of these projects and then there's the other gigantic one that we've we don't always make people understand but it's out there and people see it the Well and Park development never
would be a reality were it not for developer funding the water plants all the infrastructure um the safety building that mean hundreds of millions of dollars that were outlaid by developers who saw an opportunity to
make money by being a part of our city made investments some probably not nearly all of those investments will find their way back to them in impact fee payments over the years but they're a tremendous source of funding as we look out east as
we look out towards towards Star Farm areas and Toledo Blade and the Innovation Carter there are projects that run the gamut from parks and wreck projects to infrastructure projects utility projects road projects
that will help be funded by these developers and by having this and identifying which projects lend themselves to that it will give us the tools to as we negotiate with these developers to see to it that that's on the table these are projects that they
have to pony up for if they want to be a part of our city and work with our city and they will because they can make money in spite of the investments they have to make so there's that and then of course we get to the basic borrowing ability which is pretty darn limited as
as Commissioner Petra said you know we have funding formulas we only have the ability to service so much debt these three projects that are on the referendums are are pretty much going to handle us for a bit of time and we got some grants in the pipeline you know
people have alluded to Jesus a few two years ago not even we talked about all the water structures that were a big problem in the city and those were our priorities and by God now all of a sudden we're talking about a police headquarters and a wastewater treatment plant and a and a solid waste uh and
like what happened to those well gee whiz we found the money to do it we got grants we got SRQ money you know we don't live in a bubble here we're not off the rails we actually figured out how to do a lot of this stuff so we've
got the pipeline pretty much filled on some of these water structures and bridges for a little while price Boulevard starting to be widened now that's going to take care of a big bulk of tax money for quite a bit of time there's you know some of these projects that you know our normal district and
enterprise funds are are going to serve us right along so you know what are we going to borrow hopefully we're going to be able to issue the bonds for these three projects and and and and manage our our citizens tax dollars in the most efficient way to pay for them um the
rest of these projects as you look at them you know the timelines may shift new methodologies may come about as our previous PFM report showed a ramping up of revenues from development
uldc rewrites we'll start to see that bigger spread if we keep our costs of running this city tight we'll start to see the ability to service more debt how the hell excuse me i'm sorry let me take this golden buzzer
and anyway Jeezy peasy and we'll find a way to additionally do two things one be able to support perhaps a greater degree of debt and to see that that cap move a
little bit when you have the ability to do it and yet stay within our our funding formulas plus we'll be paying stuff down you take a police headquarters we were told by our state and county people our state you you got to have your funding in place in in
order to even be able to come and ask for some of the grant monies to do this if we can chip away at that building at a $5 million a year clip over the next four five six years we have the ability to pay that project down which is freeing up our ability to move on to some of these other projects as the need
arises so you know frankly I I thought this was a great first step it was a long time coming i hope people didn't overestimate or over anticipate what all this would be but it is a great first tool you know three and a half years ago
when our city manager presented you know performance-based budgeting that was a really new thing and we created pillars in this city we created priorities under those pillars we drive our budget dollars towards
achieving those highest priorities and utilizing these tools to help guide the capital projects as we move forward is really starting to package the whole deal and give us the ability to plan 3
years 5 years 10 years 20 years out this roadmap this this guideline this is not just for us it's really for future commissions and future leaders in the city both staff and elected to work with
to use as a roadmap and a design going forward so we can stay on track so that we don't have to reinvent the wheel every few years and and and we can pass the batons off and keep this thing moving because while it's going to be a
great thing to put a shovel in the ground this week for Price Boulevard widening no one should forget that that project should live in infamy as what not to do and I wouldn't say that in my public comments because you know I think
it's an upbeat conversation to have but we should never forget that a 57 million project became 80 we can never and future commissions can never let that happen again we just can't so thank you Jeremy and thank you Kim and your people
and everyone who helped put this together because it's a good first step and um with that unless the vice mayor has something more to say anybody has something more to say commissioner Dvau yeah yeah that's I just you know for
Demetrius um you are now Demetrius when we talk to people to when people ask that those questions about you know how much are we going to borrow you know what they're talking about is okay how much how much in taxes are we going to
pay okay but I look at it I always try to simplify things I look at it we have four safeguards number one the banks are only going to let us borrow so much money number two the debt manage policy
See it's also going to help us that's a guard rail that double A rating okay these eyes are going to be watching that rating if that rating drops okay it's going to say "Hey no more
borrowing okay till that rating goes back up." And the last thing is people like me i'm not going to be here forever okay okay but the commission is going to look at things and say "Hey we start losing that rating banks are saying we're charging us interest
rates." I trust the commission's going to say "Let's put a time out on borrowing." But to make those you know four factors known to the public that you know there are safeguards in place uh city manager you know you alluded to
it um and and you know this is a first step this report helps lay the groundwork that you know the next step I'm I'm I'm assuming would be to start to take this and start working with staff to
develop options as commissioner Langden says breaking these down the first five years say to start to say you know where this where are the potential revenue sources to handle these various projects which ones can we do which ones can't we
do where they are how how they're going to be done remembering each year we we do our we do our our strategic planning we revise and tweak our priorities and all that comes together so when you say here I mean we talk
about an economic development study and financial condition analysis am I assuming that that's kind of what that would entail well those are in mind the economic development analysis and the fiscal condition analysis are reports you already
received so we've already discussed those those were the first two that you received before the end of the calendar year last year we owed those to you before the end of December 31st and you you've gotten those now the highlight of those is the UDC rewrite and the $30
million that will come in and help alter the picture that we're talking about with the CIP our very next step should be to put in alignment this 20-year outlook with our five-year outlook in the CIP conversation that you as a board will vote on and add the 10 add it out
for 10 years and then also sort of in those first 10 years try to identify which funds we believe at the time could be primary or secondary funding sources for these projects if we do that and we keep that as a focus annually then all
we've done is sort of baked into our normal process more detail and data so that there's less um questions later the one of the things that we all might remember is someone saying "I didn't know you needed a new police headquarters i've never heard of
this this is the first time." And if we do a better job with our CIP design and conversation no one will be able to say that or we knew they needed it and they always told us they didn't have the money or we knew they needed it and it was a large scale infrastructure project and they couldn't fit in this CI um
certax there are things that hopefully we're growing from and not repeating from as we try to stay more on top of and better inform our citizens so you're going to see it this evolve in the upcoming weeks as we sit in front of you and then you'll be able to point back
and say "Oh yeah i remember that and now I see how A ties to this and B ties to that." Because because that's kind of how I see it i mean you know come the 13th we're going to know pretty much where we stand on the three fund on the three projects we're asking for bond borrowing authority on and then you know
we can sort of you know if they pass good if they don't we have to pivot to some other financial options and and as we put this budget together for this upcoming year we'll start to work this 202526 group of projects and start to
see you know because we have probably a pretty darn good idea about what some of the funding sources are going to be to address a lot of these and then we'll be able to see can we cover them all are there some we're going to have to timeline out further are there some that commission just decides and staff
decides are there they're there more wants than needs let's let's shove this one for a little while or this one becomes more of a priority for whatever reasons we discussed but it becomes now a part of this budgeting process rather than kind of if I remember the last two
years the way we would go through that CIP book i mean god we'd like go page by page and some people had eight billion questions and some people didn't have any questions some were funded projects some were unfunded projects it kind of was it was for me it was hard to
sometimes just wrap my head around all of them and then you had questions what is this why is that this will just make it a lot more organized to be able to say well here's the master what are we doing about these and we can sort of check them off and you know what do you think how do we Is this sir tax going to
pay is was this on that sort tax is this going to be handled by an enterprise or or a district fund are are we going to you know and and I mean this is just a whole lot easier to work with if you ask me and I know a ton of work went into it it
really did but back to I forget who asked the question earlier and director Williams answered it this is the ranking that our team put together then it was supplemented by the expertise of our external financial partner you as a
board have not sat and said you know I have a question about this one or I want to know about that one that those are the kind of questions that we would entertain and um welcome during the budget process to say okay we see how you got here but just for our commission
knowledge help me understand why this project is here versus this project and we should have a good answer for that or be able to respond to that yeah and and and you you make a good point it it I don't really consider this a priority ranking in my estimation it's a
comprehensive schedule of all the capital improvement projects laid out with a timeline that makes sense department by department look at the way again our process works we meet early in the year we do after each election cycle
and do a strategic planning we go back over those pillars and priorities then as we firm those priorities up you know we start to look at some of this stuff and and as they come forward it's always
just like we look at department expenses and budgeting and decide what we can and can't do from a staffing standpoint an expense standpoint from a higher level not line item by line item also with the CIP with the capital improvement projects it's going to be the same way
so there will be a prioritization and and there's public input there's commission input uh you know last thing I want people to to think is oh you know staff just like got together with our outside consultants and this is like
this is it man this is what we need this is what it that isn't how this works this is a collective input process and this is just the beginning and each year just like we do with every tax dollar the citizens pay we talk about where
we're going to spend them how do we get our biggest bang for the buck how do we meet the highest priorities under each pillar and it's the same thing with these capital improvement projects and these principles so thank you um I don't know anybody got anything else what else
public comment well even before that let me ask you are there any directions i mean this is not a workshop but are there any motions needed to staff what is what is staff looking for us from us or we're not we're not looking for
emotional direction this was to share with you the long work of not only PFM but finance and the team so that you know how it will connect to the budget process um I think that it's a lot of information and again you know there are
guardrails and different ways that we're going to show how we're going to get there but this is just the uh the report that we know is valuable because when we did it and started it people said why did you pick those three particular projects and I think we've answered that question now as we sit up on the you
know near the uh referendum date but now it's just a matter of let's take it all together now all three documents that they have provided should sort of talk to each other as we move forward and be in alignment with how we get the city to where we want it to be beautiful
yes if I may um I'm I'm wondering mayor and city manager if you might want a consensus we did discuss two things um and that was to continue implementing the long-term capital
improvement plan expanding the planning horizon from 5 to 10 years and also at a high level summary identify anticipated funding sources not all the potential funding sources but
from staff's best estimate what funding sources are most likely to come into place so if if I'll take a crack it's it's why I I asked the question I did because
actually starting with the second reference that I assume would be part of our budget process on the capital improvement side we have the master list now so if we look down everything that's
scheduled in in fly 256 and and we can go down them and we can say okay you know it's scheduled for this year or it's it's on the timeline how's staff planning on paying for it right and that's how they'll fall into
their buckets that's why I didn't wasn't sure if you know staff was looking for direction or if it's just really it's it's the inevitable next step we're right into the budget process so I don't Oh I mean if you'll want to make a consensus I don't I think for me it was
a matter of presentation we do that on the individual CIP sheets um but I just found this so incredibly helpful to also have a column that identifies anticipated funding sources really helps
us at a high level get a bird's eyee view of what's going to come out of operations what's going to come out of sir tax what might be uh bonding or thing is you can only do it year by year for instance a particular uh capital
improvement category in the next year or two may be funded say out of it's just argued district funds or or a utility fund or a sir tax but going out three four five
years that same category ex of capital improvement may well be funded by something different so to put them to task to try to go through this four pages and identify the funding categories first and second is is kind
of likes trying to say exactly when we're going to do each of these it's kind of a moving target and and being asked they're up to what there should be or it teeth in in budget preparation I as we you know instead of like rolling
through the book like we used to do which was so to me haphazard or or hard to follow we could use this as the guideline and as each department comes before us like they do once we roll through the budget we could then say okay let's talk
about capital improvements or come back at a second time and say "Okay here's what you all had timelined out where are your funding sources?" And you do them year by year as part of the budget process well I I I I have a
slightly different perspective we ought to as a team have an idea of how we are going to fund these projects at least 10 years certainly five years i I wouldn't I think it's a useless exercise 15 years
out um but but how can we properly manage if we don't have a view of how we're planning maybe too strong how we're thinking of funding these things because then that really helps us hone
in on when we have an exercise of identifying certax projects it's there you know we have the projects where staff would would like to tap certex or you know this project we generate enough and impact fees to be able to fund this
project but this other one is going to require some borrowing or some cops and it really helps us focus in on that i mean I could be talked out of the five to 10 years but certainly for fiveyear projects what do you guys think it could
change i'm not saying this is how we're going to do it but this is what we're anticipating doing and this is a special meeting so you can vote on it you don't have to have a consensus but we are we understand the assignment and we're going to bring it back and go in that pathway with the things that we talked
about so we are going to be prepared to give you that information as the CIP of this year unfolds okay that's great because I just think I just love this view of it and it would be great to sort of see how we're looking at the funding
rather than just having to go through individual CIP projects that makes sense gives a bird's eye at what point in the in the budget process do you see that coming to us um I believe we meet back with you in June if I'm not mistaken so
when we start going through the different departments normally we have a CIP category that is included in there it'll just be a little bit more robust this year so we'll add on to what we have so that we make it a intentional conversation and it'll give us a five to maybe a 10year perspective on the on the
buckets the funding buckets where you see and and there'll have to be some assumptions that are made on our end before we get to you and then you might say well wait a minute no we don't want to do that or try that that's where some of those conversations will have to occur well I'm certainly
comfortable if city manager sees that as a logical next step i'm I'm comfortable with that i don't feel the need for a consensus sounds good um anybody any additional thoughts here last chance
we have any general public comments uh yes Mr mayor we have one e comment uh Debbie McDow the project list outlines specific projects and some projects that are more general for example fire facilities sidewalks park equipment etc
here are some specific projects that have been in the city CIP for at least a couple years and are missing from the project list presented for today's discussion the Cranberry and Hillsboro intersection improvement project this is unique since it's already designed and a
50-50 split with Charlotte County utility city water sewer neighborhood expansion project this has already been master planned and the Blige Salford phase is already designed while the project was completely defunded to make a Price Boulevard shortfalls this
project has been a huge priority well Park government building and the Northport South River Road Park i recall these are part of the post annexation agreement makahhatchee Creek and Price Boulevard price bridge replacement this is in design and grants and have been
applied for it has a separate CIP seat and then phase two for Price Boulevard widening there are other missing projects from staff's list but I'm running out of space i'll close with this final thought is this list of projects etched in stone is it a road map is it a wish list i only ask because
the list includes an NPPD substation in the York Shire area for 2035 with all the discussions on the need for NPPD HQ versus substations being less efficient maybe chief or deputy chief can weigh in during today's discussion as to why it's
on the list at all thanks everyone that is all mr mayor thank you um I guess if there's nothing else to this it's 4:13 and I turn this thank you
everybody i know priceless