out as a remodel and our design was more to just add a little bit of square footage. The the building's not that old. It was built in '98, but after the hurricanes, we had to bring the building up to current code. Different codes existed in 1998. So, that process led to
a cheaper option, which was the tear down and rebuild. >> Sure. So, is there a general timeline for how long this project is going to take? >> Yeah. So, the tearown should start in December. So by the end of the year it should be all flat ground and then we're
being told anywhere between 12 and 14 months before the new station is complete and ready for our crews to move back in. >> Gotcha. Okay. So with a project like this, what does the cost look like and where are those funds coming from? >> So the majority of the funding is through sir tax. Uh the total project is
around 17.5 million. >> So since a brand new building is being built, what kind of improvements can be made by taking that route? So, one of the biggest is we are a critical infrastructure building. So, our crews are expected to respond as soon as the storm clears. The new building will be
rated up to a category 5 hurricane. And that meets the code for our wind load this far inland because we we get a little bit less intense winds as we get away from the coast. >> Sure, that makes sense. So, we're coming up here on some beautiful trees.
>> So, tell me about the plan for these. Are some of them sticking around? What is your plan? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, one of the things we did very early in the project is we recognized that to the best that we could, we wanted to save as many trees as we could, but especially the mature oaks. >> Sure. >> They provide a lot of shade and they're
beautiful and, you know, native to Florida. So, we worked with the contractor to design the parking lot in a way that we could really maximize the ability to keep these trees. So, a large amount of these uh more mature oaks that you see that were standing under the nice shade canopy, we were able to keep
a lot of these trees. Some of the smaller oak trees and some of the older palm trees uh we won't be able to keep, but we worked with the city arborist to ensure that, you know, we we did the best we could with how that design can be and found out that honestly some of the palm trees are at their end of life as is.
>> Got it. Okay. Well, that's great. I know a lot of the residents are going to really appreciate that as well. So to cap it off, service is staying the same. Everyone's getting the the same level going forward. >> Yeah, Madison, you're right. So the crews that normally operate out of this fire station are just going to be a
little ways down the road in the temp station with a temporary apparatus bay. And all of our administrative staff from Fire Rescue are moving into city hall, which is right down the street. And if you need anything from fire rescue, you can go in the front doors of city hall, turn to your left where economic development just moved into, and you'll
see a friendly face from Fire Rescue ready to help you out. >> That's great. Continuing to provide that exceptional customer service. So, I really appreciate all the information, Chief. Thanks for joining us today. >> Thanks for having me. The city wakes before you do. Good morning.
Today is Monday, March 2nd, 2026. It's 10:00 a.m. We're in the city chambers and I call the city commission workshop meeting to order. with commissioners present are Commissioner Duval, Commissioner Stokes, Mayor Emer, Vice Mayor Langden, and Commissioner Pro. There is a quorum present for this
meeting. Also present are city manager Pletcher, city attorney Fino, Deputy City Clerk Powell, board specialist Lindner, police chief Garrison is in the back. I'm going to call on Commissioner Duval. Would you lead us in the pledge
today, sir? >> I pledge allegiance. Flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
>> Thank you sir. >> Public comment city clerk. >> Uh yes we do have a few uh first e comment Robin Sanente. Good morning commissioners. I am commenting on the February 24th, 2026 agenda item regarding the situation between
Commissioner Pro, civil engineer Tim Drum, and the city. After watching that meeting and seeing the evidence applied by the city, Commissioner Petro and Mr. Drum's public comments, I have to say that it is very disturbing. Once again, the citizenry watches, hears, and sees. In this particular situation, we are
left with unsubstantiated facts along with defamatory and slanderous statements against the sitting commissioner and Mr. Drum. We can understand the specifics underlying circumstances and the need for protocols to be put in place to protect the city, a city commissioner and a business owner. However, that was not projected
outward to the citizenry. All right. Next in person, Joseph Majorino. Good morning, Joseph Majorino, 2747 Rebel Lane. Um, this isn't has nothing to do with the agenda. This is about pulling a permit. It's your your um
permit that you apparently need now, the zoning permit to get before you can get any other permit. It's broken. There is no way possible you'd have to be clairvoyant to fill this out. Asking for information, I don't know. I don't care. And that's
that. Go away. This is what's going on. And I will tell you, I'm pouring, you have drawings, I'm pouring those two little cement pads. Licensed contractor just trying to pull the first permit. He pulls the building permit. It says, are you pouring cement? The answer there is no. How am I supposed to know that as a
resident? Not possible. Top of that, you're charging twice on on the form for the same project in square footage. Met with um do this quick. Lorie Barnes talk to me like I was a little child. There's no problem. There's no problem. Can you
please look down on paper? It's this, this, this, and this. You add this, and this is what it is. It gets worse. They asked me to uh leave the building. Not because I was cursing, not because I was loud, because they didn't like that I was speaking to another resident about what's going on, what happened to free
speech. City manager refuses, and this is pointing at him, refuses to meet me meet with me totally about anything. This this is about a permit. It's not about sitting commit. It's not about Debbie McDow. It's not about anybody. This is about just pulling a permit. I have no problem with the money. It's
impossible. You say AI and ease of use. You have the same exact website with a slash for the permit and and the city website. How is that ease of use? You're hiding stuff is what you're doing actively. This is an active I don't know why if the city's a
business this is going on. But I will tell you Jason came out instead of giving me appointment five six times I asked for an appointment in the same thing. He came out and started started in with me that I'm doing something on my father's lot. I don't know what he's talking about. You know when you were a child you say listening ears your
parents told you and I sat there and I listen my father's 88 and lives on the other coast. This was designed to start either have me kicked out, trespassed or arrested. The police are aware of this right now. past that, he asked me what my
disability is. Civil rights violation, right? All none of this had to take place. None of it. In the end, he pulled uh Elaine away from me, the the lead of the department, and I said to him, I didn't appreciate that yesterday. And he started, and that's not what I said,
Jason. Jason, and he followed me to the elevator, which is aggressive. This is a problem. This should send There are multiple other I don't have the time. There are multiple other problems. I will sit with any of you. Whatever the whatever the thing is needs to change. This is a problem for the city. I cannot
believe I am embarrassed embarrassed at 60 years old to call this my home. This is sad that this happens to anybody. Nobody should be treated like this. And you have to make it possible. You're vi it's a violation of state law for me to
pull a permit. It's not that it's hard. It's a violation. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. >> And by the way, they won't I was to understand you can speak three times in a row. They stopped that. That's another violation there. >> I know there's a guy that comes in and
fills out five of them. Just not that I want to waste your time, but this is important. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. Thank you all. >> Good morning. The last time I was here, Mr. Fletcher brought up the issue of transparency and and and that aim that
is why I'm here to be a transparent. the agenda item that he brought up with the geotechnical um guidelines and what they're accounting is not transparent at all. It has about half the facts and of those half of those facts, they're
vague, misleading, and a couple of them are outright slanderous and accusing me of not doing my job correctly. Let me point out one to you. In one of the emails, they bring up my email to them where I stated that I did not believe the city of Northport has bad soils.
Down below in red, he likes to use red to point out my uh his points there. Over the last 5 years, there have been 47 permits that have been pulled because of settling or cracking issues. Okay. If he had documentation that proved that those were caused by bad
soils, I'm pretty sure he would have uploaded those as well. But he he does not have geotechnical reports stating why those foundations settled over the last five years. Let's think about what has happened over the last 5 years. Three major hurricanes. I have gone out
personally inspected hundreds of homes. I have seen the damage that is caused by these winds that shake, rattle, they vibrate the homes, induce cracks, cause settling in the homes. I would I would venture that most of these permits that they're trying to site saying that I
don't know what I'm doing is probably caused by the hurricanes. But anyways, transparency. If they want to be transparent, let's also call in the other um city staff that was around for meetings that were held. Have them
answer questions that I've been trying to get answers for for over years now. Um I've been here for the people. Um, I live here. I'm trying not to have people pay for undue engineering things. Again, I said it in the last meeting. I could
have made a lot of money doing these geotechnical reports. In fact, I go out and do soil borings on every job that I have to do a septic design on. I have done over 75,000, our company has done over 75,000 septics in the Charlotte,
Sarasota, Lee County areas. I know the soils very well because I personally dig the holes. I get my hands dirty and I know what the soils are. In fact, I got about another 10 that I need to do later this week. If David Greenbomb, Jerome Fletcher, any of you sitting commissioners would like to come out
with me, I can dig the holes with you. I can show you what the soils are like. They are not what the commissioners or the David Greenbomb and Jerome Fletcher have pointed them out. I don't know what else to tell you. I'll have more comments later. I only get a couple of
minutes to try to inform you guys, but there's a lot more to it and they're not telling you the whole truth. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Elen T. >> Hi, my name is Eileen Tatum and I am president of the Northport Senior Center. Good morning and thank you,
Mayor Stokes, Vice Mayor Emmerick, and commissioners. I am here today to ask you to consider to keep the Northport Senior Center rent at $200 a month when we are rehoused over at the Mullen Center. Our methods of fundraising are going to have to be revamped which we
are presently working on. Having access to the senior center on evenings and Saturday Saturdays allowed us to include the community in fundraising efforts such as quarter auctions and yard sales. The board is discussing different fundraising ideas that can be done
outside of the Mullen Center. This would be helpful in planning our activities for the remaining year and how to plan for future fundraising ideas in the future at the Mullen Center. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Tim Doyle.
Well, I'm going to start out critiquing the last meeting like the caller did. I'm embarrassed, too, to be honest with you. This is what my third meeting in a row coming back. I'm a little more down to earth.
So, I'll apologize to the police department is what I said about the police department happened under a different police chief mostly and my interaction this time was probably a thousand% better. So, I'll
throw that out there. Now, coming to the meetings to try to solve the problems and what I found out afterwards. I can't say that about this board. I can't say this about the city manager. I can't see this about your any employee
else in the in your departments because the code department should go bye-bye. Everybody's complaining about them. What happened in this meeting is a disgrace last week. Yeah, I mean the caller is right. That
shouldn't have happened during the meeting. Whatever happened there last week, you guys are the people running this show. You guys are setting the example and I don't feel the leadership here is setting the example.
It starts at the top. Why did they get rid of a permit required to put up a fence? Why did they stop having people to get a survey to put up a fence? That's how you solve a problem. Create more.
But the code department is going to come down my road and tell me how long my crafts can be. If you you know I've said it before, this is a corporation. This is not a misality. Someone said that last
meeting. If this was a municipality, there'd be a courthouse out here on one of these piece of property and there would be justice. But there's not a single courthouse in this town. That's a problem. a big problem, especially when you go
around putting leans on people's houses on some of this stuff. Where are those people to go in this community to fight you? There is no courthouse cuz this is a corporate town run just like the coal towns back at the turn of
the century. And I'm sorry, but I'm saying it because that's what I see. You don't own your property. You've rent it from the town. to Santis is right on that and you guys are going to go down in the next election because of this stuff. I won't
take any more time from anybody else, but I'll have plenty more to say. Thank you. That is all, Mr. Mayor. >> Thank you, sir. Moving on to presentations. Presentation by the city of Northport lean six sigma
team regarding the social services division project. City Manager, this is your item. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, just to introduce the items, we do have two presentations today, but lean six sigma as some background is one of the ways we operationalize our commitment to
data-driven government. It gives our staff a structured method to map out a process, collect the right data, and then redesign that process. So, based on rather than antidotes, it is based on facts. These projects help us to move from what we think will help to what we
know because this is working. Because every improvement is backed by clear before and after measures like processing time, error rates, and customer satisfaction. By training our employees in Lean Six Sigma tools like group cost analysis, we are building an internal culture where staff routinely ask, "What does the data
tell us before we make a recommending change? Using this approach, we can show residents and the commission not just what we have changed, but the measurable impact, faster service, fewer handoffs, and better use of taxpayer resources, all documented with real numbers.
Ultimately, Lean Six Lean Six Sigma is both a staff development strategy, a governance strategy, and it equips our people with skills continuously to improve and ensures that our day-to-day operations are guided by data, transparency, and accountability. This morning, you will hear those presentations from two of our project teams who have completed the training
program. I will now turn it over to him for the first presentation. Can you share the presentation on the screen? Thank you. All right. Good morning everyone. Thank you for allowing us time to present our projects to you this morning. My name is Jennifer Sedonis. I'm a grants coordinator within
the city manager's office. The lean six sigma process starts with the define phase. During this phase, we identify the problem or opportunity. We define our project scope, understand our customer needs, develop a project
charter, conduct highle process mapping, and set our project goals. For our project, it focuses on the perception that there are unmet social services needs in the city of Northport and therefore individuals are underserved.
The city social services division does a great job and provides resources and services to support individuals and families in need of short-term financial assistance. There is an opportunity to develop and improve on standardized tools used for data collecting and tracking quantifiable data from citizen
inquiry inquiries and program usage. Working with the social services division division, our team developed a project charter to document the problem statement, identify goals and objectives, define our project scope, specify team members and responsibilities, and develop a timeline
for the project from start through implementation. I'm going to draw your attention to the business case and benefits on this slide. This is our project charter and hold. Gathering quantifiable data will enable the city of Northport to measure access to services and identify gaps in
unmet needs within the community. This data can then be used to support informed resource allocation and drive funding decisions. The cypo is a highle process mapping tool. It's also on your screens. It's used in the defined phase of lean six
sigma. It provides a clear overview of a process by showing its main elements. It's useful for defining project boundaries, aligning team understanding of the process and identifying our stakeholders early. In this instance, our team used the cypo
to tool to identify the intake process for a citizen or organization who's requesting services from the social services division. I'll draw your attention to the process column. This is the process of when someone requests or when an organization requests social services assistance. The request for
assistance is received. A pre-screen is completed or assigned. Then the pre-screen is completed and an appointment is set. Eligibility for that is determined and services are provided and the file is then documented and closed. Next, Anna will discuss our next
steps in the measure phase. Angel. In the measure phase, we look at what data is being collected and how it's being collected. Oh, I'm sorry. Anna Duffy, I'm with fire rescue.
Uh, the first step in the measure phase was the development of a process map. What we did is we sat with social services and we mapped out their process, how they take in um client information and how that client information gets tracked and flowed flows through the uh ultimate resolution
and closure of the file. Everything starts with the citizen who contacts social services in need of assistance. The staff assistant three takes their phone call or takes that walk-in and they start that an intake process on
their intake tracker. Um from there uh depending upon the client needs a client services specialist or a CSS will get assigned and if that client is being assigned to a CSS at that point the CSS
takes over the tracking of that client's progress through resolution. What we found in um going through our process map was staff was noting um certain information on their tracking sheet, but
the sheet did not capture key data points and enough detail to provide for quantifiable analysis. Also, the intake tracking records were not being closed out. So, that intake loop was not being closed. So staff was having to look in
multiple places in order to aggregate monthly data on what services were required or asked of that month. Also the multi um the client service specialists were inputting tracking information in a parallel system which
basically created kind of duplicative entry but they were capturing pieces that the initial inquiry tracker just weren't capturing. The next piece of our measure process was our data collection. The initial uh the existing tracking
mechanism that they had captured date and time of an inquiry, contact information of the um uh client um nature of the inquiry um and uh resolution if it was assigned to a CSS.
if it wasn't assigned to a CSS, the resolution information was lost. Um, in the nature of the inquiry, they were capturing it in text. Um, so CS, uh, the information was being entered into the tracker as free text. So the way it was
being entered, it wasn't consistent and it made it difficult to counter quantify. Um, so from there we determined there really wasn't enough data for us to work with to analyze. So we looked at the why
of that situation and how we got there. And from there we go to Alex for the analyze phase. >> Morning everyone. Alex D Ramio, financial systems admin with it. So the problem we were asked to analyze was that citizens of Northport are perceived
to have underserved social services needs. We started by looking at what drove that perception. We asked why do people believe needs are underserved. What we found was only anecdotal feedback that some residents have difficulty accessing services. When we
look deeper, the main issue became clear. We didn't have consistent measurable data on client access, needs, outcomes, or satisfaction. When we met with social services, we learned that the existing tools and workflows were welldesigned to deliver health quickly
and effectively, but not to support long-term measurements. In the past, analytics was not prioritized because there were no clear KPI requirements or data governance roles. There was also no defined ownership for satisfaction
metrics, service levels or data quality. Because of that, the city did not have a reliable baseline to confirm or disprove the perception that needs were underserved. This context is important because current city leadership has made it a priority to move towards datadriven
decision-making with more standardized data capture and governance. This gives us a great opportunity to improve how we measure services. Not because the process is broken, but because we want better insight. Identifying the root cause helped guide
the next step of our lean six sigma analysis. What we found is that the process works well for service delivery. Customer service logs inquiries at first contact and client services continues the case in the same system. Clients typically work with one
specialist and information is not lost between people or systems. We did not find backlog, hidden inventory or signs of routine rework. Bottom line, social services is effective at meeting client needs. The main gap was around the lack
of data capture for analytics, which limits the city's ability to set baselines, track outcomes, and make fully informed decisions. The next phase focuses on targeted improvements to close those data gaps and strengthen the city's
decision-making capabilities. >> Thank you, Alex. My name is Melissa McConnell. I am the project manager for the utilities department. Now that we have analyzed our reported problem, we move into the improve phase where we
identify and prioritize our solutions. The team brainstormed potential solutions to the reported problem. We put them into the solution matrix which you will see here in which we compare and prioritize them. You will see that stakeholder buyin was low on two
potential solutions at the bottom and this was due to the existing CSS tracker that social services already had in place was utilized specifically for grants and managed data specifically for that. Therefore, we omitted those two potential solutions and we focused on
our remaining solutions which is the customer service survey and the intake tracker. Now that we have our two solutions, we want to perform a risk analysis. This is which we will reduce or eliminate risk and this is done as
the FMEA the failure modes and effects analysis which you will see here for the intake tracker. We identified a potential fail failure being human and human error in the entry system. Our recommended action was to add a QAQC
which is the business operations coord coordinator. She will peer review ensuring all clients that are seen are accounted for in the tracker. We also recommended to create a mistake proofing system in the entry tracker for the customer service survey. We identified
the potential failure being refusal to complete. As anyone knows sometimes they can be tedious long and we get refusal even for ourselves in doing it. Therefore we recommended creating a mis mistake proofing entry system as well keeping it s simple and standardized.
Here you will see our pilot plan. This is a limited scale trial used to test a solution in our case multiple solutions. This checklist highlights the areas to ensure methods are in place to reduce risk. We want to prevent gaps and we want to support support full
implementation as well as gaining stakeholder confidence. Our pilot successfully met the established time frame and we were able to include the addition of the customer service surveys which was projected to be in a later phase. Here you will see our process map which
Anna mentioned in the earlier measure phase. This process map now shows how the process will operate after the improvements are implemented. Here you will see the addition of the yellow box updates intake tracker with resolution. The addition of this step will now in
the process allow social services to capture the data for analysis for future needs to better support our residents. Next, I will hand this over to Anna who will explain the process used to implement the intake tracker and the customer survey for gathering data.
Thank you. Um in our proposed solution, we uh proposed using um tools that the city already had in existence and social services had access to. Um so we proposed a an updated an improved uh
data tracker for client intake tracking through using smart sheets. The first phase was an improved grid mechanism to capture key data points. It breaks down requests into types, categories, and subcategories, allowing social services
to really drill down on the data. Also, in order to make the um entry into this grid easier and more efficient while staff is on the phone or working in person with a client, we developed an intake entry form which uses um uh lots
of drop downs, data validation fields and logic to streamline that entry process, make it faster and also the use of those drop downs makes the data more consistent um than the prior tracking method. The next piece to the client intake
tracker was the development of a dashboard. We were collecting all of this data, but we wanted to be able to see it visually. So, we worked with social services to create a dashboard and that this will give them year-to- date and monthly met metrics at a glance.
Once the uh client tracking solution was done, we worked to um worked on the post-ervice client survey. Um again we use the smart sheet tools developed a new grid and the uh in order to uh
increase the uh rate of capture and completion on these surveys. We worked with social services to uh develop a limited number of questions that they prioritized to make sure that the data that they were capturing from their clients was key and important in their
decision making going forward. And again we um used um the same kind of um consistency tools in this entry form as we did in the uh client tracker. And now that these things are done, we do foresee that these things will evolve
and change and social services will have the ability to change change the grids, change the dashboards and surveys as they need to going forward. And with that, we move into the control phase with Rebecca. Good morning. Rebecca Levan, business
analyst in IT. So, this phase is about making sure our improvements stick. We want them to become a part of daily work. So, we focus on consistency, clear ownership, and simple tools that will keep the process moving after project
closure. Here you can see our control plan. Uh this is showing exactly what will be reviewed, how often, and who owns each part of the process. So for example, you can see inquiry tracking will be reviewed monthly by the process
owner using reports on categories, outcomes, and response times. This will help track trends and it keeps leadership informed. On your screen, you can see the communication plan. So this is how the right information will get to the right
people. So for an example, you can see social services staff will receive regular updates through team huddles, email reminders, and dashboards to stay aligned. We will be monitoring a few key areas,
including accuracy, timeliness, and error rates. These metrics are reviewed on a regular schedule using defined thresholds that will uh indicate when any follow-up actions are needed such as
retraining or process adjustments. >> A little bit more time. >> How much more time do you >> just about two minutes? >> Okay, you got it. >> Okay, thank you. >> Um, okay. So, of course, we want to try to prevent errors before they happen. So to help with this, we built mistake
proofing into the tracking system. So things like required fields, drop-down menus, and predefined categories will help reduce the chance of missing or incorrect information. So we use the same mistake proofing
approach with the postervice client survey. Required questions and simple response options make it really easy for the client to share feedback, which helps the city gather reliable data and help understand service trends over
time. As we close out the project, ownership will transition to social services. We will hand off final documentation such as training guides and finalized procedures while leadership will
continue to monitor adoption to ensure our improvements stay a part of the daily operations. And that concludes our project. We really appreciate everyone's time and attention today. >> Thank you very much. Nice presentation.
>> Commissioners, questions, any discussion? I Commissioner Dval. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um, thank you for the presentation. Um, along with this project, I did
notice a couple of names. Um, Aaron Eisenheimer and Janet Carrillo, I guess, who work for social services. um along the way I'd like to see that you really keep them involved
in the project, you know, so that you're getting feedback as to how it's affecting them and their jobs. Um, one other one other comment I have is I'm a member of the uh Sarasota
Community Action Agency board which basically is on the county level. County has money. That money is taken care of through the um
Salvation Army. The Salvation Army keeps a list of all their clients, what the client's need is, what their plan is, what they where they're at now, what the goal is, what the outcome is. And once every three
months, the board that I'm on, we meet and we review all of those cases. um alto together you know for social services what we're looking for is to alleviate the need for the social services you know to get the clients on their
feet you know to look at what they really need. Um so I would just suggest that maybe someone get in touch with the cab up in Sarasota. Um I could get you a list of people to talk to just to see
how they do things and how they keep track of things. Um and we do every three months we get a listing of you know client A client A came to the country two years ago is applying for
citizenship is in uh education classes for for language uh career um and really it's keep it uh by by keeping track there's quite some amazing
stories. Uh the very first one I I saw was a lady that came here uh she was on her own. Uh taking care of her children on her own through the program. They got her on a track.
She now owns her own home. She owns her own car. They're paid for. She's gotten her real estate license. Uh she's a success story, you know, and this is kind of what we're looking for. Thank you.
>> Good morning everyone. Janica, social services manager for the record. Um the program that you're talking about, Pathways of Hope, we are already involved with Salvation Army regarding that. Oh, we've already connected, but thank you, >> Vice Mayor.
>> Yeah, thank you, Mayor. Um I had a bunch of questions. Some of them have been answered through the presentation. So some of these might just be suggestions rather than questions. Um a question do do we have any rough idea on what
percentage of folks come to social services for help and we refer them to external agencies. So, you know, for people that we we don't sort of provide that in house,
>> Anna Duffy with Northport Fire Rescue um actually working very closely with social services. That was one of the key data points that we were looking at. We're capturing not only um where things are being resolved in the process, but
um what has to go out external for assistance and who we're sending those folks out to. That's part of the whole tracking mechanism that we've built out with that level of detail. >> Right. Thank you for that. And and as part of that, um if if you're not
intending to, I would recommend that when you send out your satisfaction surveys, say after a case is closed, if we're providing it in house, that we do something similar for the people that we
refer out to, who who we referred them to, and what the disposition of that was. Um, I think what is a challenge everywhere, not unique to Northport, we have a lot of organizations that are
really committed to helping people live better lives, but there is sometimes often a lack of coordination of those resources and that could be contributing either to some redundancy
or gaps which seems you know people are sort of saying. So, so I would recommend that as well. >> And as a future um project, we've talked to social services about potentially doing a nonprofit survey um to go out to
partner um the agencies in the area that serve our residents to find out, okay, what are you guys seeing? And obviously, everything will be dependent upon whether or not they complete the survey, but it's a step in that right direction, >> right? Um, and then
uh a question about um are there other social service functions in the county? I know the county has a social services office. Do we coordinate with them at
all? Does what's their service definition? Do they only serve people living in the county? So you're if you're asking me about Sarasota County and the and the services they provide to the community, they are not in the direct services line of business. That
is where we come in. >> Okay? >> They offer um support to the nonprofits providing the direct services. >> Okay. So, we're a little bit different and unique in that aspect where I believe we do a little bit of both
>> um in that capacity, but our main function every day is to be the first point of contact and do the direct services, you know, boots on the ground type of services. >> Okay. Um the other thing I'd love to see in your data analysis is trending
information. You might be planning on doing that anyway, but it would be very helpful. you know, when I looked at the services that you guys provide and and how many intakes there were, um there were some pretty sharp drops in requests
for certain things. And I think it would be helpful over time um particularly people who are late on mortgages and rent. >> It would be very helpful. it you would sort of be a first line of defense providing feedback on the overall
financial health of some of our families that are more in that Alice category or um you know maybe you're below >> right yeah and I believe there's a few things that affect that we've had that conversation um with the six sigma group um a lot of things that are could trend
are the holidays so sometimes you'll see a spike right after the holidays >> I saw Right. >> And so that's where you see that big um >> people are buying presents instead of paying their rent is going. >> Yes. So so there are some trends but um
I do like the suggestion of um capturing exactly what that trend was and why there was either the uptick or the drop in in the request for services. >> That that would be helpful. And let me just say I was delighted when I heard about this six sigma project. Um, I come
out of the high-tech industry and we've sort of used that process for a very long time now. And so I'd love to see it applied to areas in the city where we feel we could make some improvements or achieve some wins uh by studying it. So,
thank you all for doing the work and I understand you volunteered for it. I'm thinking you volunteered for it. So, I've been volunteered in the past. You will do it. Um, but thank you for that. Very valuable. >> That it.
>> Yep. I'm done. >> All right. I see no one else. Uh, city clerk, public comment. Tim Doyle. >> A lot of ways this is an important subject. There's some people in our society who
can't take care of themselves. There's some people in our society that can't support themselves. My entire life because of my upbringing, I've seen a lot of disasters. Some people have watched living above the
funeral home. I will tell you that the holidays is the busiest time of year for a funeral home because of despair. people can't do things or want to do things. It's not always after the holidays.
Phone rings on Christmas every year. What I don't like and what I'll say about some of these social service what I see here, I see a lot of technology. I see a lot of computer screens.
I see a lot of information going all over the world to all these spy centers called data centers. People in China can find out everything they want about anybody in Northport. So I worry about the technology. I rather put the money into what is
needed for the people. Aesthetic technology. That's my personal opinion. Someone wants to complain, they can come to this meeting just like me at camp. And a lot with social service I see
these days is the money's being wasted. Now these fine people volunteered. I appreciate that. That means a lot to me. That gives them some credibility to me. They're not after a paycheck.
But I know somewhere in this big thing I saw a lot of money was spent and it wasn't on food for someone or paying their rent. So I can't say whether I support or deny
this or anything else. I'm just telling you social services needed and we shouldn't waste the money on computer programs. We have to buy food. So for somebody, buy food. don't buy a computer. I don't need the computer to tell me they need a
piece of pasta. And I don't need to know their life story. Neither does everybody else who can get into that computer. And a lot of these programs are to see what other agency can give them something so they can get more money.
And I don't think you guys realize that. Like I said, a lot of fraud and abuse. And we found that out in Minnesota, didn't we? Thank you. >> Thank you. >> That is all, Mr. Mayor. >> Thank you. All right. Moving on to item
B26-0424. Presentation by the city of Northport lean six segmenting regarding the development services department project. City manager, this is your item. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, as we get into the second project here today, I just want to make sure that we point out that
we we do recognize development services on this list as a um applicant for their services. Development services has gone through a cultural change since Delena already got here a few years ago based on what she inherited when she came in the door and has built a very strong team as well as a code change with the
ULDC that was done a few years ago to make sure that we can maximize the potential of this city as well. and most recently she's gone through a computer change with the Asella system and learning how to use it and make sure that we all sort of maximize its potential. Also, we do recognize that
all those changes and the things that have happened in that department. We always have room for improvement and we are trying to in addition to what you're going to hear right now, find a solution that will allow us to have better interaction with the public so that we can answer individual situations questions on how they have trouble
navigating through our system without sort of letting them go to a voicemail or an email. So, we're working on that as well, but I'll turn it over to the team now and thank you so much, sir, as we begin the project. >> Thank you very much. Thank you, mayor, commissioners. uh Scott Jawwin, accreditation coordinator with parks and
recreation department. Um I also want to thank the city manager for offering this training program to us while we work to strive for continuous improvement and create efficiencies throughout our workload. Our project is based on the our focus on residential permitting process. So
we'll follow the same method that the previous team followed the deic method of the lean six sigma and we start in the define phase. So the defined phase is why this project exists. Um we had a a pretty broad problem statement of the c the city has a perception of being
difficult to do business with because of high fees assessed by development services. Um as we discussed or as we will get into the permitting experience and the fees uh within that experience help drive that perception. We kept our goal narrow and this was
intentional. We uh focused on as a baseline of single family residential permitting fees and we worked in benchmarking with surrounding municipalities. We focused on datadriven foundation for future fee discussions and we did follow
the lean six sigma framework of define measure analyze improve and control. Um, as we said, we've kept our scope limited to uh single family residential b building permits. And as you see the team members there, I'd like to point out that Larry Ford, one of our team
members from information technology, cannot be here today. And we also want to thank Kylo Strong from development services as a contributor who helped us really uh answer a lot of our questions throughout this process. So looking at the cypo here, the cypo is a high process level and it's not quite
the details, but it does show the journey from start to finish. As you look at here, you can see that there's multiple applications for one single project. The same information is submitted more than once and each step seems makes each
s each step it makes sense individually. However, it is quite fragmented. Um, so as you can see, as a customer starts, as they put in their application, it is submitted for approval. It's CZZ application goes to planning and zoning. And as you follow the lanes down, you'll
see that as it goes through and gets into a staff review. One thing I want to point out is in the third process box of separate building permit applications. So within that there was um separate permit applications for multiple trades such as plumbing, electrical and roofing
where the customer had to submit mult duplicate information multiple times. Um so as we move past the define phase we will get into how we measure. Morning everybody. Kyle Bestie with IT. So this is the
process diagram from when we started this project back in July. Uh there's been a lot of great changes since then which we will cover later in this this presentation. Uh so you you would start out to get your permit. You'd have to apply for your
CZC. You'd pay your submittal fee and go through an approval process. You would then pay your CZC fee and have that issued. You would then have to submit a application permit, pay an application permit fee,
go through a submitt process, pay the permit fee, and have the building permit issued. You would then have to follow the same process for the trades permits, pay an application fee, submitt process, permit fee, and have those trades permits
issued. Um, I do want to point out that the trades permits could all be submitted and reviewed at the same time. So, you weren't waiting for one to complete before the next one could could continue. Uh, for our data collection,
we narrowed our scope to the total fees needed for a residential home uh, valued at $350,000 and about 2,300 ft². Um that's about the average average size and cost of homes
being built in this area at the time that we started this project. Um we also collect the number of permits needed to begin construction and the number of times that a resident would have to pay to have those permits issued.
Um so we collected data from Manatee County, Charlotte County, Bradenton, Panagorta, Sarasota County, Fort Myers, Venice, and Northport. Um, as you can see from the graph, Northport is at about $4,800 or about $2,000 above the mean. Um, I do want to point out that
there is a $1,500 $1,500 road fee that is collected prior to permits being issued um in Northport. Um, that fee is collected by other municipalities. It's just collected at a different time in the process.
Looking at the number of payments required, uh most municipalities are anywhere from one to two. We were at nine and the number of permits required is also one for everybody else except Northport which is at six.
And moving back to Scott for the analyze phase. All right. So now that we have defined and measured our problem, we're going to start to analyze it. Um again we worked with the tool of the five W's tool. This is a tool to get past the surface
explanations of the problem. So again our starting problem the city is perceived as difficult to work with compared to surrounding municipalities and we start to ask oursel why to get to a root cause. So the next thing we notice is that applicants are required to obtain an excessive number of permits
to complete a single project. Uh these permits requirements are fragmented across multiple trades, each requiring separate approvals. As a customer, you will see that there is not a consolidated permit pathway. And then the root cause shows that the
city adopted a fragmented permitting model while comparable municipalities use a consolidated permit pathways. Um additionally, we looked at identifying waste. So identifying waste and lean six
sigma defines that as nonvalue added activity. So this is where we're trying to create efficiencies. Um there's eight categories where you look at waste to see where you can find some efficiencies. As we look at the defects, we did not find any there along with transportation inventory and motion.
However, we did find waste in overp production which is the excessive number of permits required for this single family project. The waiting which is the separation of permits requires a customer to submit the same information multiple times. Non-talent utilization. So staff and
customer time is spent managing duplicative permit requirements while they could have been doing other things and extra processing. So multiple permits require duplicative review and approval steps. Um and as we talked about we did bring in the Asello program and we did notice that it streamlines
certain aspects of this progress process. We still found significant waste due to the number and fragmentation of permit requirements. >> Caitlyn Griffin, performance and accountability officer. Um, I'll move us through the improve phase, which like the last group said, this is where we
start brainstorming ideas and ways to improve the identified root cause. So our team came up with three potential solutions to look at through our solution selection matrix. Um the first one was to condense the fees. Um when we
compared ourselves to some other municipalities, their fee structures are formatted a little bit differently. Um the other was to adjust the permitting process which is what we'll talk about a little bit after this. Um this was changing from our fragmented
permitting process to a consolidated process and the last one being to change or adjust the fees. Um at the time of our initial analysis the Asella process was recently implemented by the department. So our team did not want to recommend adjusting the process as staff
was still adjusting to it, understanding how it worked. The community was still adjusting to it, but the development services team had an opportunity through some revisions in Asella that made it a lot more feasible than we initially anticipated. So, we wanted to highlight
the adjusting the permitting process, which is what has already been implemented by the development services department. So, this is the new current mapping. This is not 2B. It's already been implemented as of January 1 of this year. Um, so you'll see kind of the same
process that was started that Kyle talked about. You apply for a CZC, pay that initial submittal fee. It goes through staff review and potential revisions if anything is required. You would pay the fee at the end and have the CCC issued. And then this new
section is where you would apply for your consolidated building permit. You would pay the submittal fee. It goes through reviews. it. Once it's approved, you pay that final fee and your entire consolidated building permit is issued and that ends the process there rather than having to
continue to apply for the separate building trade permits. So, this significantly cuts down the number of applications required, staff review required, payments required by the customer as well. So, you're now at two documents that are needed for submission
and approvals and four payment touch points. So then we move into the control phase which is a little bit different than the last groups because this has already been implemented by the department. So we continue to monitor their performance measures around building permits, how
quickly they get reviewed and issued. We look and track at the number of permits coming in and being reviewed by staff. Um we continue to monitor that and also monitoring feedback from the community. As we started this project, it was based on community feedback that we were
difficult to do business with. So, we continue to use our different channels through the development services department, through our communications team to see what the feedback is from the community around this topic, and we'll continue to evaluate that as we move forward. So, our next steps with our project,
again, like I said, this has been implemented, so we're continuing to monitor the permitting process and any changes and feedback. Um, and we've been told that there have not been any negative feedback based on this specific change that's been made. Um, but we
continue to monitor that. We also could expand this review of fees and processes to other permit categories. Um, again, this scope of the project was limited to single family residential homes preconstruction. So, this did not look at fees that happen
after your permits are issued, such as impact fees and anything else that's required to get your certificate of occupancy. Um, and also at the direction of the city manager, we also reviewed a few other categories in this realm. Um, one being flooded elevation certificate
requirements. Our group reached out to and received approximately 30 responses from other municipalities that participate in that process and found that our requirements are in exact alignment with all of theirs requiring certain things for flood elevation
certificates to maintain our community rating system um what our rating is. And then we also are continuing to review the road construction fee information. This is something that's still ongoing with our team and we don't have a full analysis of that done yet, but we will
continue to work with public works and the city manager's office to look at that and see what we do compared to other places. And that concludes our presentation. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. Very nice. >> Uh commissioner,
any questions? Your name's up, Vice Mayor. Is that from last time or is that >> That's from last time. >> Okay. City clerk will stay up on things here. >> Anybody? >> Yeah. >> Commissioner Stokes? >> Yeah. Um,
what would have been the rationale for fragmented a fragmented process rather than a consolidated process? Why wouldn't we have done a consolidated process to from the onset? Good morning, Elena Ray, director of development services. So, there there
were several reasons. One, um the trades have always required a separate license. So, you have to be a licensed um plumber or electrician to pull those specific or to do that work and pull those specific
permits. Previously, under our old system, um that was happening behind the scenes. staff was doing a lot more work to pull permits apart. Essentially, what we were finding and we were having a a
real problem with is uh plumbing contractors, uh electricians were being added to permits and they were not doing the work on those permits. um they were being added to permits without even knowing they were being
added to permits and they'd get a random email from us and they'd call and say, "I've never worked on this job. I don't know what this job is." Um so we we had a lot of that going on. And in order to
curb that, um, when the Asella program was built out and it was the scope for Asella and the processes that were built were done prior to me even coming to the city that those processes had already
been mapped um, years ago. Um they did that so that uh the um trades would be able to know th those those contractors would know when they're on a job, when they've been added to a job, when they're taken off
of a job, it would have those safeguards in place. Um when a CELA was built out, we did recognize that it was a cumbersome process. But in order for Asella to roll out on time and on budget, I might add,
we couldn't change it at that time. We had an update with Asella that was going into effect August 1. I'm sorry, January 1st, meaning my dates mixed up. Um, and we asked at that time if we could consolidate that process as part of our
update. And that new update did allow us to do that. So we we put safeguards in place. One, if any contractor is added to a permit, that contractor is automatically notified through email
that they are added to that permit. If they're removed from a permit, they are notified that they're removed from a permit. And it also um assigns specific numbers to those trades so that they're be they're able to be tracked through the system. Uh but all of that is now
happening behind the scenes um because of the update that we were able to do with the cella. >> Thank you. That helps explain that. Um, the only other, you know, the other thing I've heard from people for whatever it's worth, I don't know if it
falls within the scope of, you know, the project you did here, but, um, is the lack of human touch, you know, and and I've heard it over and over from people who say, "I can't talk to anybody." And when I do talk to someone, they tell me
one thing. Then when I come back again after following their direction and I go and of course I never get that same person. So the next person I get tells me something totally different or tells me stuff I should have done that I
didn't do cuz no one told me I was supposed to do it. And there is no end to the frustration that that yields. So, you know, I say I know when when for instance I call my
insurance person, I never get the same person, but I'm always dumbfounded at how literally everything that took place in the previous conversation is well documented. when I call back and talk to someone else, it would seem like there
ought to be some similar type process so that if a person has to come back and back and back again, they're not hearing different things. There is nothing worse than saying, "Why didn't you tell me this the first time and that person says, "Well, I have no idea because I
wasn't the person you talked to the first time and it's not documented. I don't see it. I don't know. All I can tell you is what I know you're supposed to do." That if you ask me is the biggest problem everybody finds with our development services department. And it's not a little problem. It's a huge
problem because perception is reality and you know from people who are generally really very friendly and have worked with our city for a long time have raised this concern with me over the months and years repeatedly. So you know it's been well we're changing
systems, we're changing this, we're restaffing. We're getting organized. we're getting but you know meanwhile people trying to do business so I raise it because it's in front of us and I hope that somebody's addressing this stuff because it's you know certainly I'm hearing on a
semi-regular basis >> we absolutely are and bear in mind anytime you have these types of systems and these types of processes and lots of people involved you are always going to have um the potential for human error
you're going to have the potential for misunderstandings. Um you're you're going to have that potential. We process um about 20,000 permits a year every year. Um 20,000 permits and we hear a
tiny we hear from a tiny fraction of people and we typically only hear from people when something goes wrong. So it all of the the ones that are going right you don't hear about. Um but absolutely there are always ways to improve and we
are continuing to look at that. We are looking for ways that we can um consolidate problem solving, troubleshooting um and make it easier for someone to contact an individual or or a group of
individuals who will dog that problem down and and fix it. Um we have multiple permit clerks. There isn't any way to guarantee that when someone calls or someone comes in, they're going to see the same person they did the last time
because the the volume that we have simply does require a lot of people to be involved in this. And uh but we are always looking for those improvements. Um we've had recent talks with the city manager about ways that we can uh
improve that through um perhaps a role that that does that. Um, when things come to me, I I mean, I'm even involved with, you know, if somebody has a problem and they get a hold of me, I'm tracking it down through
the process to see you what happened, who who told who what, and how we can fix it and keep things moving. So, we are we are absolutely looking at ways that we can improve and and we certainly want to. >> Thank you. That's all I got, Mayor.
Thank you, sir. Commissioner Dval. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um, I'm looking at the number of permits required for eight communities. Our community being one of those eight. The average is 2.625.
If you took us out of the picture, not one of the other communities is over two. This is wonderful. And I'm not being sarcastic and I'm not being facitious. This is wonderful because we're sitting
here looking at this. The first step in correcting a problem is looking at it and admitting that, you know, everybody else is one or two. We're at nine. Um
maybe they don't all have a problem. Maybe we got to look inward. Uh therefore I congratulate you all city manager staff uh for getting this into the open uh because that's the first step. Thank you.
>> Thank you sir. Vice Mayor. >> Thank you mayor. Um does I'm keying off of something that Commissioner Stokes brought up which is the ability to document phone calls. Um, I've worked
with call centers in the past that used automated systems. My question is, does aella have the capability of storing? So when someone has a
conversation with a a resident or a builder, you know, that conversation can be documented specifically in terms of what did they tell the person they were required to do. >> Asella does have a place that we can put
notes. Um so someone could go in and and add those notes and and we often do. Um, it requires someone to actually go in every time and do that. That's not a screen that
someone would normally have up when they're when they have someone in front of them or they have somebody on the phone. They would have to go in um to whatever permit it is and do that. That's assuming there is a permit. Sometimes we have people call and and
ask us questions and we provide information. there is no record for us to actually go in and document yet. >> So it's pre-p permit. >> Pre a lot of times it's pre-permit. Um so there there is a way to do that. It's just a matter of of every person needs
to go in and consistently do it. I'll just say this that will take more time and it will slow down getting to the next phone call or the next person in line, but it is it is something that we can do. um I don't know that it would be practical to do it for every single
conversation that somebody has. We talk to a lot of people um both in person and and face to uh and on the phone. So um sometimes it's handled through email as well. Um when we have emails that go out through Asella, those are stored in
Asella. So we can go back through that email uh chain to get that information. >> Okay. Thank you for that. sort of in a similar vein. Um, and again, I'm keying off of because I have heard the same thing over the years. They'll talk to
one person and find out what they're required to do and then they get someone else and it's different. Um so likewise can the process so once a permit is applied for can the process and the requirements
required at that step be documented and scripted so when people are at you know each phase of the process there's some consistency and what they're telling people. So it it is if if someone comes
in and they apply for a building permit, a sella when that permit is is issued, it automatically populates where what inspections they need and at what point during the process they need those inspections. um if someone applies for
um a certificate of zoning compliance the they apply for the permit and then there's a there's a process that automatically gets built in and aella populates it automatically. So um there's a screen that you'll see that it
says intake and intake is where our staff looks for sufficiency to make sure the application is complete. Um once once it passes that it is distributed for review. So it'll go out to to review to our reviewers. Um comments it'll it
has that process built into it. Um you actually have to go into Aella to see that process for that for that specific permit. Um but it does it does build that out. >> Okay. Thank you for that. Are we still tracking are we processing
still above 5,000 permits a month? I know a couple years ago we were sort of tracking to that. Where are we at these days total? >> I'll have to go back and and look at it. It is a lot of permits. And if you're
talking about, for instance, um the the trades permits >> that that's where most of our permits are. Um so we can get those numbers for you. Um we do a monthly report. We also put that report online so that the public can see that. Um, and we have our
dashboard um that has our permit numbers in there as well. Uh, but we'll be happy to get that. >> Now, did I hear though that we did in the last update consolidate that requiring all the trade permits?
>> We did. Yes. So, so currently if if that chart that you saw was updated with all of the numbers that our surrounding jurisdictions require and the number that we require, it's two building permit and the CCC.
>> Thank you for that. And and again, I do agree with Commissioner Duval. To solve a problem, you need to recognize it and talk about it before you can solve it. So, um I give you a lot of credit to doing this project and the folks
involved. Um it can be tough sort of talking about issues in your department or process for everyone to hear. So, I I give you all a lot of credit. >> Thank you. >> Vice Mayor, I did want to add on to the customer service questions that you and
Commissioner Stokes have asked. Um, we're working on a new system that will be kind of around that for customer relationship management. So, seeing historic touch points with individuals as well as a knowledge management system so that it can be updated on a regular
basis and accessible to more than just one department at a time. So, instead of a siloed um knowledge management, it would be cross- departmental. So, if someone called a department that didn't handle the the specific item, they might be able to find the current information
for the individual calling. >> Oh, that's interesting. I hope we hear about Yes. >> more about that. >> It's in its early phases right now, but it will be um hopefully helpful for everyone. >> Thanks. >> Commissioner Pro.
>> Thank you, Mayor. I just have a couple questions. Uh Caitlyn, um thank you for your presentation. Um the slide that I have a question on is slide 11. If you can pull that out and um my question is this data that is provided
on this slide was it before the consolidation of some changes or after? >> This was before. So this was the initial data collection when we were analyzing where we stood. >> So after the consolidation where we at now >> this would be at two >> two. Okay. So it it does say permits,
but the two that are required is a CZC. So it's not technically a a permit. >> Okay. And the next question is um road fees. Uh since you have to work with other departments and specifically public works, uh will you have that information
for us and how in comparison we are how we are as opposed to other communities around us? Mhm. Uh we didn't do a full analysis of that in this project, but we're working on gathering some information. >> Okay.
>> So, how do we find out the comparison on that information or data? >> Yeah. Um so, we'll we'll gather it through public works and anal analyze it and share it with the city manager's office. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Thank you. That's it. Is that it? >> City clerk public comment. >> Tim Doyle. >> Can I ask them a question real quick? >> You can give public comment, sir. >> Okay. Um, my my question would have been
is the road fee. Is that permit? Is that $150 to access the road? That was my only question to Okay. Permits. I've dealt six different states building projects and stuff. So, I've had a lot
of experience at these meetings with the permitting department and all the inspectors and how they do it. And they are right. Some cities will require you one permit for the whole project and they will want all the money up front before you do it,
including impact fees, any, you know, any curb cuts or they make you redo the lights or anything. you have to pony that money up first. The seven permits to build a single family house when someone has to go through a planning process is
ridiculous. So, I'm glad that they brought that down to two or whatever it is. I think that was a smart move. Um the fees I really don't have a problem with the amount. $4,800 they said for what a $350,000 project. What's that?
percent and a half or I don't know percent and three/arters. I'm not doing in my head, but to me that's not excessive. I mean, when we start to vote here and you might lose some of your funding, I don't think you're going to be able to lower those prices.
So, for the public to sit here and think you should lower those prices, I think are dead wrong. So, I will say that. And again, my problem with a lot of these departments is how they treat the people. And that was addressed here a
little bit. And I think that's really needs to be addressed because the people are paying for the service and uh depending on personalities, depending on the people, things can go ary real quick.
My other problem with some of this is the permitting itself. Now, you're requiring a permit to build a house. You require a sight plan to build a house, don't you? You require to have the
the property fenced in with the black stuff, right? So nothing can drain off and stuff around the edges. I don't know why you took away the code that you don't have a have a permit for a fence. You don't even have a regulation that says you have to build a fence on your own property anymore.
When I walked in the the building department, when Sandre Lee couldn't believe it and had to pull her out of this building or she would have been arrested, not me. She would have been. They said, "You might want to build it on your property." That's what the woman said to her, and I
had to grab her and drag her out of that room. You might want to look at some of your laws. >> Thank you. >> That is all, Mr. Mayor. >> All right. We're going to move on to item 26-0469,
presentation regarding geotechnical report timeline by development services department. City manager, this is your item. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. U before director Ray begins the presentation, I just want to say I submitted this item for
discussion in response to the history of the geotechnical survey and city's interactions with Mr. Drum since it was mentioned by Commissioner Pro at our last meeting. It's the clarification of documented history, statutory authority, and governance boundaries. Uh the timeline being presented begins in April
of 2023, well before the current commission's composition. And statuto authority Florida statute 48468.604 requires the building official to administer and enforce the Florida code, Florida building code without interference from any person. uh and
that means me and I cannot go and tell him and order him what to do if it is against his interpretation. He has to make that decision on his own. That is similar to the fire code and the fire chief who has that same authority where he has to make that decision uh on his
own. The building officials authority is an obligation. It is not of political discretion. Uh when Phil exceeds limits under the residential code, the building official has authority to determine whether additional geotechnical review is required. uh you'll see that on the first slide as uh director H sort of
introduces but I want to turn it over to her now and she'll start us through the presentation. Thank you sir. >> Good morning. Could the clerk um thank you and and good morning. So, this is the the Florida statute that um
city manager just referred to that states that the building official um will execute their duties and responsibilities faithfully um without interference from any person. And I have stated before and we'll state again that
that includes me. Um, I am the building official's direct supervisor, but that is not in relation to how the building official interprets the Florida building code or the Florida building code residential volume. Um I am uh his
supervisor in regards to personnel issues um in regards to work hours in regards to um how we conduct business. Uh but I am not his supervisors regarding interpretations of the Florida
building code. Um, the Florida Building Code does contain an exemption for detached one and two family dwellings and multiple single family dwellings which are town homes. Um, and it states that they will comply with the Florida building code
residential volume. So, um, when when I talk here, if I say building code, it means the Florida the primary Florida building code. If I say um residential code, it's referring to the single family and um two family dwellings uh
that volume. Um there are times when the floor when the residential code refers to the building code or um where you use certain provisions of the building code to um interpret or to enforce the residential code.
Um, one thing that the Florida Building Code residential volume does state is that um exterior walls and um uh shall be cons um supported in on continuous solid or full of grouted masonry. Um skipping down, it says footing shall be
supported on undisturbed natural soils or engineered fill. Most of our slab foundations that you see, they're not um built on the undisturbed ground. Uh they're they're built on pads uh of fill
that are brought in to the site. Um and that is engineered fill. Let's let's talk about what engineered fill is. It's soils that are brought to the site or sometimes excavated from the site. Most of the time it's brought in for all of our single family pre-platted lots. They
bring it in. Um and it has to be placed and compacted to specific engineering standards. Um, and that's for for all shallow foundations. Um, typically it's used to raise um the sites to uh comply
with FEMA regulations, the base flood map uh elevations and um to provide a a stable base for those shallow foundations. Um the residential code does talk about uh the preparation for the site removing
the vegetation um that the fill material has to be free of of vegetation and foreign materials. And it also states that um the fill shall be compacted to ensure uniform support of the slab and except were approved the fill depths shall not
exceed 24 in. Um the Florida residential code also includes um requirements for soil tests where there's quantifiable data uh stating that uh there may be expansive or
compressionable soils um shifting or other characteristics. Um and that the building official shall determine whether to require a soil test uh for specific locations. Um, Northport has sandy soils primarily. Um,
we have a high water table. We have repeated flooding. Most of this area was slooh many years ago. Um, and we also have uh the unique um characteristic of an area that was previously cleared,
dredged, filled um based on the GDC activity that occurred. Um we have encountered uh numerous instances where um vegetation has been found um below the surface where it was previously
buried and what happens when vegetation is buried it decays over time and it's it sinks and so the ground sinks a little bit. Um that is one of the legacies that we have.
Um the Florida building code does contain regulations for compacted fill and um residential one and two families as I said they're exempt from the Florida building code but when we go back from
let me go back to this screen when those fills exceed 24 in which is what is allowed by the Florida building code unless it's approved how do we get to is it approved how do we get how do we know if it should be approved. Um the Florida
building code does contain regulations that the building official looked at uh to determine uh whether um a geotechnical survey should be required and what that geotechnical survey should include. Um so there are some some
information here about how to prepare the site. Um what the soil should contain. You don't want it to contain organic material. You also don't want it to be too fine. If you bring in sugar sand to a site, which we have found, um
that's going to cause a problem because the sand is too fine and it it will cause erosion. Um the this is just continues on um that also the the building official can wave those if there are alternative uh
methods available or if uh an investigation isn't necessary. So site conditions in Northport generally our our soils are fairly stable but they can shift. It is sand. We all know you know the wise man built
his house on a rock and foolish man built his house on sand. um it can shift with with heavy rains and um we all know that we've had repeated flooding events here in Northport over many years. We also have a very high water table two and a half three and a half feet in some
some places. And then as I said we have uh buried vegetation um in different areas. Even um since GDC we have um we have cases where we have found um
builders and and others who have cleared a lot and buried it on site rather than hauling it off because they didn't want to pay for those fees. um add additional factors that can um contribute to structural damage on foundations. Improper fill materials.
So, as I said, we have had um a lot of cases where the fill that's being brought in by the contractors isn't appropriate fill. Um it's got too much gravel in it or it has um organic material in it or it's got too many um
too much of a percentage of fine uh sands in it. Also, insufficient compaction. Something to know about shallow foundations when you bring in a lot of fill and and in some cases we're talking about four to six feet of fill that they're bringing in to build the
house on. Every 12 in has to be compacted to a certain um compaction measure and it has to have a certain uh a maximum amount of certain um moisture content. So, that has to be done at every 12 in. What we were finding is
that contractors were showing up with a dump truck and a skid steer and that's all that they were using, spreading the dirt out and and leaving it that way. And there's no there was nothing in that permit file that we could go back to to say you're not doing it correctly. You're not doing it according to the the
method that you're supposed to. Those geotech surveys provide that information. And it says how what type of fill needs to be brought in. How um how the organic material and the the sand um uh the soil um measurement the
finness of the soil has to be measured. Talks about uh how it has to be compacted and how um it has to be compacted every 12 in to a certain uh level. Most of the engineers are doing that and this has never been about the engineers. The engineers are doing their
job. they're providing the plans to the builders. Um it's what happens after that and how we hold the contractors and the builders to a standard um if that standard isn't identified in the permit file. So um some of the damage that can
happen with um settling cracked cracked and bowing walls, cracks in floors, uh sloped floors, windows and doors that stick or become uh hard to open and close. any of you have had foundation trouble. Um I know I have not in my current house but a
previous house. Um it's it's extremely expensive. Uh the permits that we've found in the last 5 years for foundation damage typically in the 20 to $40,000 range and that's just to repair the foundation. That doesn't include
repairing walls, um repairing pipes that may break, um repairing floors. Um I I had a previous home. The foundation cracked a year after we built it because the foundations the the pad was not properly compacted. Um and the
house cracked in half. We lost that house. Um so it it is it can be devastating. Um so essentially this this was not about engineers frankly. It was about um
ensuring that contractors and builders were properly um placing that fill, compacting that fill so that homeowners in future would not have those devastating costs uh to their homes, which is our most um it's our biggest
investment in our lives typically. So in April 23 um we had a new building official come in. Um that summer he was watching homes get built and he noticed that four to six feet of fill was being brought in on
almost all of the pre-platted lots. Um some of that was due to FEMA regulation. Some of it was due to the flooding we saw in in Hurricane Ian. Um builders wanted to make sure that the homes were lifted high enough so that they didn't flood uh if we have another hurricane Ian.
Um so in August of 23 um he sent communication to all of the contractors, engineers, builders on record um that we would be requiring geotechnical surveys starting October 1st. Now if somebody wasn't bringing in
excess fill, he could wave that. Um but most of the sites, in fact, I can't think of one that they haven't brought in that much fill. Um and so they were they were bringing in that excess fill um since the uh
residential code said that that it shall not exceed 24 in except we're approved. He thought the best way to ensure that the fill uh that's brought in is the correct type of fill is being compacted correctly according to uh engineer specifications uh that a geotech survey
would be the most practical. Um but he would allow um alternative methods if if someone proposed that as well. Um so this I want to note that subdivisions like all of Wellen Park,
Panacea area, uh those types of developments, they've always done their geotech surveys. So all of those properties have geotech surveys done. This was really just the pre-platted lots that weren't doing that. Um and
there was no no protection for that um for those. So, sorry, I'm I'm kind of losing my voice a little bit. Um so, that was in October October 1, 2023 that that went into effect.
>> Thank you, director. Perfect time for you to grab some water. Um I just want to start here by talking about the building official meeting with our team. This was back uh in October. Um could you put that back up there please? Thank you. Um and what we talked about were
the alternatives that were in lie of providing uh for the engineers and we welcomed them in and we talked about those particular alternatives. Um if I'm not mistaken and I'll get director to clarify, I believe that we only have one which is the one that we're dealing with
that is still outstanding regarding who still contacts us regarding this particular change u from October to now. um he's been calling and emailing our commission and most of which you were on the commission at the time. Some of you weren't here when this began, but you
certainly have been seeing the emails that has been related back to us. Um >> yes, sorry. >> Thank you. It's all right. >> I forgot you don't have a button up. >> It's okay. I'm all right.
So October 12th, 2020 2023, um Mr. Drum sent an email to us uh in the city and he has sent several but you know he said he would argue that the data is historical and shows actions to slow down the building process and we do believe that Mr. While Mr. is entitled
to his uh opinion. We were still working through this process with our building official and relying on him and his knowledge and his license and his interpretation. Uh because within the last 5 years, as this slide will tell you, 47 homes in Northport have received
permits from the foundation. Uh repairs are due to settling, cracking, etc. often costing homeowners various amounts of money. So it is good and therefore we have to make sure that we do the proper protocols so that we avoid situations like this.
>> Thank you. >> I think this is back to you now. >> Back to me. >> Um so in on November 8th um we did meet with uh Mr. Drum uh deputy city manager myself and our building official. Um
another engineer was in attendance. Uh the other engineer did agree that other jurisdictions require these geotechnical surveys for excessive fill. Um, in a lot of cases, um, we did we did inform, uh,
the engineers that we that if the Florida Building Commission issued, um, an official ruling that the build that stated that the building official could not require a geotechnical survey for single family homes when
excess fill is used, then we wouldn't do it. Um, and that the the building official would abide by that ruling. um mid November 2023, we were informed um that an application for an informal
ruling um had been uh applied for with the Building Officials Association of Florida. Couple of differences there. Building associate Building Officials Association of Florida is a a group made up of building officials. It is um they they do they issue interpretations that
are non-binding. They're they're informal, non-binding. um the building local building official um then has to agree or not agree to it and and um it would go from there. Um the question that was asked is when a structure is designed under the Florida building code
residential volume uh do sections of the Florida building code buildings still apply um eg a technical geotechnical report for a residential project? Um so this was to to BOAF we call we call it BOAF for short. Um, we had talked
about the Florida Building Commission because that is the the formal uh body that issues formal and binding rulings. Um, and the question that was asked um our building official was of the opinion that it really didn't state the the
issue. It didn't say anything about um those properties where Phil in excess of 24 in is being brought onto the site. Um the in November 15 um BOAF provided uh
an interpretation that said no uh if it's designed according to the residential code it doesn't have to comply with Florida building code. Our building official did did actually agree with that um based on a question that was asked.
Um there was a December 30th, 2023 newspaper article um where um it was stated that the only local um jurisdiction that requires these is Manatee County for for different
reasons. Um, Puna Gorta's chief building official was quoted as saying that officials can require it uh where data is um created by acceptable soil science methods um or in in cases um where the
building official deems it necessary um and can include issues such as um issues found during the building inspection process or uh cracking foundations or other damage. Um, Creek Engineering was quoted as saying that um, Northport was
one of many municipal municipalities they serve that requires it. Um, January uh, 2024, uh, the city communicated uh that the um city would
had agreed to a formal ruling from the building Florida Building Commission. um if the Florida Building Commission uh ruled that the building official could not uh require a geotech survey uh for a single family home when Phil is is used
in excess of the maximum specified under the residential code. Um as I said, the building official did agree with Bo's informal ruling regarding the the general question that was asked. Um, April 22nd, 2024,
um, a petition was filed with the Florida Building Commission for a formal ruling. The question was, if I designed the residential home foundation in Phil soil to meet the requirements for chapter 4 of the res Florida building code residential, am I still required to design the foundation in Phil soils to meet the requirements of the Florida
building code building chapter 18? Um the Florida Building Commission's response came back in June and said, um no, if you design it according to the building code residential, uh the design does not have to meet the Florida building code. Um keep in mind Florida building code residential says 24 in
maximum fill unless approved. Um, so in June 24, uh, the building official communicated to city manager's office that he did not dispute the ruling of the Florida Building Commission, but the the question that they were asked did not address whether he can require that geotech survey uh,
in cases where the Phil soil being used in excess of those specified under the residential building code. Um, October 31, so this is now a a year and one month after uh, the requirement was put into place. Uh the building official did speak with the city
manager's office regarding geotechnical surveys and what his plans were for going forward. And I'll turn that over to our city manager. >> Thank you, Director Ray. And there there's the point of the time frame that it took in conversation from when this began to when the building official
actually said yes, we'll be talking about accepting other methods for this particular uh protection for the city. It was over a year of conversations. So when me and the building official and director A and Mr. Yarro had conversations, we were I was always
trying to find a solution that would get accomplished what Mr. Drum wanted in order for him to as he say us not charge something that he felt that he thought that we shouldn't. and we finally came to that agreement and still that was
almost a year and a half ago and we're still talking about it now even though we changed our process to allow him to do what he wanted to do without actually getting the one report that was this big hindrance from this one engineer and we
gave that to him back in October well really November 1st of 2024 that was almost a year and a half ago and we're here still talking about the exact same thing. >> Um so November 1st, the the building official did communicate out that we he would not require those in every
instance. He still reserves the right to do so um when he deems it necessary, but he also um he talked with a lot of engineers over that time frame. Some of them still today say that we should be requiring it because of the types of
issues that they're seeing. They we have engineers who are saying it should be required because the contractors aren't following and doing what they should be doing. They're still bringing in sugar sand. They're still bringing in uh fill that has too much organic material in it. and
there's no protection for them uh for for so we have engineers who are adding notes to their plans um specifying uh the 12-in lifts and and the compaction that each of those lifts has to be uh done to because they want to protect
themselves as well um and they want to protect the the future homeowners. Um so that is being added to a lot of uh a lot of plans now. um the surveys that have been were provided over that 12-month period. I kind of want to go into
why the building official kind of felt comfortable at that point. Um we're doing forensic analysis on those geotech surveys and on all of the um foundation repairs. We're actually going to go back 10 years
to see where all of the foundation repairs in the city have been done. Um, we're going to overlay that on a map. We're going to overlay where the geotech surveys have been performed outside of the master plan community. So, on our pre-platted lot, so we can have that um
historic data. We're going to look for trends in those foundation reports. We're we're um going to look to see if there's anything that we can find in the file that indicates why that uh damage occurred. Was it erosion? Was it shifting soils?
Was it wind damage? as as was mentioned here earlier today. Um so that we can have that we're going to see if there's trends in who the builder was. Is is there uh trends in a time period. Most of those 47 homes were built within the last 20 years were built since 2005. Um
and they were built on pre-platted lots. So, um we want to identify those trends so that we can have that data built in and it will it will um allow us to be more confident going forward that we're
protecting our future homeowners. Um so, consistent with nearby jurisdictions, bearing in mind some of our nearby jurisdictions don't have the same issues that we've had with clearing and filling and dredging and um those types of things. they don't have the frequent
flooding that we have. Um, but nearby jurisdictions um reserve the right to ask for those surveys and our building official does most of the time. He reserves that right, but he's not requiring that at this time uh for every property.
And do you want me to? So, um, we we do still continue to get emails from from the the one engineer, um, that, um, and I will tell you that our our building official, um, has been, uh, targeted
with defamatory language. Um, they have, um, been accused of being incompetent, um, arrogant, um, lying, being a threat to the to the city. Um and he he takes
that very seriously. There have been uh issues brought up u in public comments where uh maybe something happened in a previous jurisdiction. One was with an owner builder permit. Um I'd like to share with you that that um that ended with him being determined to be correct
that he was correct in what he was asking for. So um you know we we have to be able to have confidence in our building official. I do have confidence in our building official. I have a um letter from an email from um a state
official, the I believe it was the head of BOAP. Is it the head of BOA or the head of Florida Building Commission who sent me an email stating that um he wanted to commend our building official for the level of knowledge that he had and for being as helpful as he was on an
issue that they were dealing with. So, um, you know, he every building official I've ever had, I've worked in multiple jurisdictions. Somebody doesn't like them. Somebody doesn't like what they're doing. They don't like them because they're they're enforcing regulations. Um, their interpretation of something
may be a little different than another building official, but each building official has to maintain their own license and they have to um they have to carry out their duties as they believe uh is appropriate. So, um, they're never going to make everybody happy. Um, and
you know, we they they do their best and, um, if there are issues in communication or the approach or style or anything else, I absolutely step in and deal with that. Um, but I I cannot and will not step in on interpretation
issues. That is entirely within the realm of the Florida Building Officials um, purview. I didn't uh thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, as we wrap up, just a few a few more clarifying statements. Uh there was a
statement by um the commissioner that said that I had concerns since Mr. Dum had become an advisory board member and that he was causing problems and asked the person to verify that. That's an inaccurate statement. Uh all my prior concerns which I expressed to the commissioner were regarding the engineer
related to the documented um communications that you just saw beginning in 2023 which were well before the advisory board appointment. Um the record reflects documented disagreements and repeated accusations towards staff long before the commissioner joined the
board. Um the commission the commissioner also made statements suggesting staff exposing the city to significant liability uh are serious due to the geotechnical surveys and there's a greater risk that comes from failing to follow statute, failing to follow code or interfering with the building
officials lawful discretion. Organizations of our size manage risk through internal controls, professional standards, and documented processes. Some of those internal controls include our charter um which includes the protection of staff being asked questions or being given direction from our elected officials. So this goes back
to the issue of violating the charter and interacting with staff with the commissioner said he wanted to explore legal options since I was enforcing the charter since he didn't agree with the legally supported interpretation of the charter. This threat of legal action um then is the same that is being discussed
u now by the same commissioner. Mr. Drum works for Commissioner Pro since he said Mr. Drum is an adviser to his brother who uses his license comm our commissioner's license to do work. The commissioner has said publicly that he is separated from his brother's business and he used only his contractor's
license as a qualifier but he had nothing to do with the work of his brother on the projects with his name. A qualifier under Florida law is legally responsible for supervising work performed under their license. It is not transferable. I will definitely defer to the city attorney, but it is not legally
possible for him to separate himself from applications to the city that contains the commissioner's name as the applicant and qualifying agent. According to for statute 105 3 through5, he has a building contractor's license, making him the primary qualifying agent who has the responsibility to supervise,
direct, manage, and control construction activities for which they have obtained the city permit. I am not the ethics officer for the commission, nor am I personal counsel to the elected official. My responsibility is limited to protecting the organization, our employees, and the integrity of our
processes. Any personal business decision by elected officials are outside my authority unless they interact with the city operations. When they do intersect, I am obligated to put safeguards in place. I defended my responsibilities and obligation to the commissioner with the charter and talking to staff and now also how his
business interactions affect this that same department that department staff that he wants to be able to talk to. Now I have to move on. There are so many things that we're happening in the city and we have a budget to balance that's critical to where we go in the future. Uh we have some tough decisions I'm putting in board of this in front of
this board in the very near future. I can't spend any more time on this particular issue. As previously stated and directed by the commission, I will continue to document and elevate situations as they arrive and try not to solve them on my own. I appreciate your time and thank you, Mr. Mayor, for allowing us to have this conversation
today. >> Sir, commissioners, anybody? >> Commissioner Pro. Thank you, Mayor. I have a couple questions on the slide presentation. And on the slide eight it says that
um on the bottom in red states Northport has frequency for sandy shifting soils. Um so what engineering documentation does the city have that states the sand sands are shifting soils. Um after all
the sandy soil is excellent for residential slabs and shallow foundation. Clean sand can be compacted uniformly. Um it's has a low shrink and almost no expansive capacity because sand doesn't shrink or
doesn't expand when it's wet. Um it's easier to achieve stable bearing capacity. So my question is what what documentation does the city have that the sands are shifting soils?
If the sand if the soils are not if sand is not compacted properly then it can shift. >> We we all know that as I said the issue has never been about the engineering design. The the issue has never been
about the the work that the engineers do. primary issue is not having the information with the permit that requires the builders and the contractors to do it correctly. So the issue is not really about the design.
The issue is about when they bring six feet of fill out and dump it on a site, how are they compacting it? Are they compacting the undisturbed ground first and ensuring that it's compacted correctly and then doing their 12in
lifts and compacting those correctly? That's what was not being done in a lot of cases. So, it's about ensuring that those builders and contractors when they're out on site, we have something to hold them to.
Um and I'm sure you know this director that any compact test has to be done on any residential >> slap that has to be done by outside non-related party completely
outside agency licensed that do compact testing that ensures the quality of compaction. >> Correct. It does not however tell us the composition of the soil, the organic material um and whether there's
vegetation on the site um or the the um condition of the the um initial soils >> and uh does the city know definitely what caused the damage to those structures that we talking about 47
permits uh that were in the period of 5 years? >> That's what we're looking into. As I said, we're we're going to do a forensic study because we do think it's important to identify um what the issues are. Most of those permits were um since 2005 and
that's about when uh builders started bringing in more fill and that fill has gradually gotten more and more over the years. Um but that was around the time that was after Hurricane Charlie. Um there was flooding in Northport um around that time and um so more fill was
starting to be brought into these sites. We want to look to see whether there is a trend that we can identify. Was it specific builders? Was it in um so far what we're seeing is it's it's kind of spread out. It is all on the pre-platted
lots. So um you know we're we're also if if it's a matter of even if we have to go back to the companies um some of those were Ramjack and and other um large companies to see if they have records and and in their records um to
help us determine what caused that. Uh because we do think it's it's important so that we can try to protect the homeowners going forward if there's something that we can do um to put in place to rectify that. I have a question. When do you require
geotechnical survey? At what point in the construction phase? When would you want that as a requirement? >> So the the geotech report typically would be done at at the beginning. >> At the beginning of what? Well, because
the geotech report includes um the requirements for the type of fill that is brought in to the that needs to be brought into the site and how that fill needs to be laid down and and compacted and placed. It would need to be done
before that occurs. As my as as I understand the geotechnical surveys were required at the time of permitting application when the the homeowner or whoever is building has not cleared the lot yet, right? Because they cannot clear the lot.
>> So the building official did um provide flexibility on that so that if a lot hadn't been cleared um they were able to get that cleared first and then do the survey. So, but but somebody needed to communicate with the building official to do that. >> So, the geotechnical service were
required prior submitting the application for construction. >> If the site was not cleared, yes, the geotech survey was sorry required. If they could get to it, if they couldn't, they could call the building official
and and work out a a timing flexibility on that. Well, the geotechnical surveys were required way before the fill is brought in. >> Yes. Because if you do a geotech survey after the fill is brought in and the geotech survey tells you to bring in a certain type of fill and you brought in
a different type of fill, then you'd have to do that over again. You'd have to take the fill off and bring more fill in. >> Correct. But it contradicts your statement that geotechnical surveys are done in order to protect the homeowner
and see if there any materials brought in organic or different. No, sir. It it it provides the instructions to the contractor or the builder on what to bring in and how to lay it down. And
that gives us something to hold those contractors and builders to if we go out and find that they're not doing that. And that provides the protection, future protection for the homeowners to know that it was done correctly.
I have a question on um slide nine. I'm sorry. Um slide nine says Florida building code 1803.58. Is that residential or commercial?
>> Well, it's commercial. It's also um >> Well, when I say commercial, there are two levels. When it says Florida building code dash building, >> right? building and then Florida building code is residential. Correct. >> That's building and I did I did mention
that that you they don't build the foundations according to the Florida building code when it's residential. The building official looked at that code as um the level of detail in a tech standard level of detail in a geotech
report. Um that's that's why that was there. So just wanted to clarify because when average person when he's here he or she hears Florida building code they're not necessarily aware that it's a residential or building which is
commercial building is almost synonym in the code that is commercial. Um I guess I just want to clarify that. So that was omitted from that slide that it did not say that it's either commercial or residential. >> It said Florida building code.
>> Correct. >> Right. And I did state at the beginning if I said Florida building code then it was Florida building code on all references in the presentation if it's residential it specifically states Florida building code residential. >> Yes. And I I just want to point out I
drive a lot through the city and I like to slow down or stop and see new construction being built. the rainy season or seasons I see a lot of wash out on the corner of a house.
Sometimes the the driveway is cracked. >> Mhm. >> Before they got a certificate of occupancy and that's simply mismanagement of the contractor or homeowner. The water goes and washes
out. There are no gutters and you see a corner of the house that is washed and sometimes 12 10 inches in but it has nothing to do with geotechnical surveys or report that would protect that you know it's simply uh safeguards on a
different level u and you might want to look into that but if we look at that and I'm all about the data so if we look at uh at the data and 47 homes were received permits. And um as you
indicated, we get about 20,000 permits annually. >> 47. And do we know what definitely caused the damage to the structures? >> So 40 that 20,000 permits includes all the trades. >> That's that's if somebody's replacing
windows or doors or they're doing plumbing work or anything. Um, I can give you for this year, this fiscal year so far, we've issued uh somewhere in the neighborhood of 620 630 residential uh single family permits
uh for new construction. Probably about half of those are in our master planned communities in areas that already do geotech surveys for all of their properties. So about 300 are probably on pre-platted lots. Uh question, does the building official
not accept the rulings Mr. Drum received from Bo? >> For the questions that were asked, he certainly does. >> So, did he did he accept? >> For the questions that were asked, yes. And what about the declaratory statement
which is not a vague statement because I read it through but it's a direct statement clarifying that the residential building chapter 18 of the Florida building code is not to be used for the design the foundation rather chapter 4 of Florida building code residential
>> correct and chapter chapter 4 of the Florida building code residential states that unless approved maximum fill is 24 in. So I just I don't want to press it but does the building official not accept the declaratory
statement? >> Yes, it did for the question that was asked. The question was not specific to fill in excess of 24 in. So my question would be how then is the building official to approve fill in excess of 24 in without additional information.
>> Okay. So in the email the the drum engineering sent to the building official and David Greenbomb who is the um building official states that the reason for the geotechnical report
surveys was based on the chapter 18 of the Florida building code building that is commercial and it's documented because I studied that >> it was based on the criteria from chapter 18 because chapter 18 actually defines what the geoteex survey should
include, >> but the same chapter exempts single family residential. >> So then the building official did state to the engineers that if there was an alternative method, it was up to them
what that method would be and what the criteria would be and that he would accept their seal on that. Um, I I don't know how a building official can say I need additional information and
have nothing to state what that information would be. He was using chapter 18 because it lists the criteria that would be in a geotech survey, but if the engineers wanted to provide something else, he was absolutely
willing to take that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't uh engineer puts his license on the line by designing the soil and the fill soil meaning brought in um and he specifies what kind of soil
has to be brought in. >> Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Some of the engineers, I can show you snippets from the engineered plans, and it's very sparse on details as to what type of fill, how it should be compacted, 12-in lifts. Some of the
plans don't say anything about compacting at 12in lifts. Some of them just say bring in clean fill and compact it to a certain ratio. They don't say anything about um organic material. They don't say anything about moisture densities. They don't say anything about
uh compaction at 12-in lifts. Some of the engineers are putting that information on. Some engineers are even putting on that aneotech survey will be required to be performed by the builder. >> So, does the building official still believe Mr. Drum and other local engineers are not designing the
foundation system correctly based on Florida building code residential? >> The building official, to my knowledge, has never said that the engineers are not performing their jobs correctly. As I've said multiple times during this presentation, this really wasn't about engineers and how they design their
projects. This was about contractors and builders not bringing in the correct type of fill, not compacting it correctly, and the building official and our inspectors having nothing in the file that they could go back to to ensure that it was done properly. >> And on slide 25,
um, it states, "The data received was valuable data. Could this data not have been obtained by the building official just by asking local engineers, companies, engineering companies that provide local geotechnical services if the soils in
Northport have questionable properties that require sight specific testing. So I have I I can I have names of engineers. We we have talked to engineers who said for their from their opinion we should still be requiring it because of the types of fills that are
being brought in the amount of flooding that we've had our high water tables. Uh they believe that these surveys should still be done. It seems like the building official made local residents and homeowners foot the build to provide him them with data
because he was not aware of the current soil conditions of the area. He was already seeing u those reports and I'm not sure how many houses were built between the October 20 23rd and November 2024
when the requirement was dropped that amounts to a lot of money. Um but um I just >> I can say that amount of money is less than the amount of money that 47
homeowners had to pay for foundation repairs. Um and and if we can prevent that from occurring in the future, um that that is a significant savings for our for our homeowners in the future. So I kind of want to conclude with this
because I obtained email from a building official to city manager saying in the spirit of consistency with adjacent jurisdictions, a geotechnical report for one and two family dwellings will no longer be required at time of permit
application. documentation on the website will be adjusted to reflect this and email notification sent to parties registered to receive. So it was dropped on November 1st, 2024.
Um if we are very serious why did we drop this? >> I did explain that in the presentation. uh >> and we already answered the question. >> I I provided that in the presentation. That timeline is not an exhaustive
timeline. There were dozens and dozens of emails that went back and forth over a two and a half year period. It would have been impossible to put all of it in there. Um but that is what the um building official sent to the city manager. >> Thank you. Thank you for your time. Is
that it? >> Thank you. >> Anybody else? >> City clerk, let me guess. Public comment. >> You are correct. Uh we'll start with e comment. Uh Debbie McDall. The timeline stated the city would abide by the
Florida Building Commission ruling. Mr. Drum received an informal ruling from the Building Association of Florida in November 2023. Mr. Drum then received a formal ruling from the Florida Building Commission in June 2024. Mr. Mr. Drum provided the city with both rulings.
Both entities ruled the geo techchnical surveys were not required. The city finally stopped requiring the surveys in November 2024. Why did it take 5 months to officially stop requiring the survey? Those geotechnical survey costs new residential property owners
approximately $2,000 each. Is the city refunding that money to those property owners? After all, the city knew for 5 months the survey wasn't required. Actually, the city knew for over a year without with the informal ruling. That's called theft. Just another example of why people can't trust the government.
Next, e comment from Ashley Luke. I'm a bit confused at why it stated that Greenbomb did not follow the BOAF interpretation because it wasn't exactly what they asked for and wasn't from the Florida Building Commission, but that he did choose to follow the second interpretation from the Florida Building
Commission even though it still wasn't exactly what they asked for. Additionally, had HR or the director or whoever simply done a Google search before hiring Greenbomb, they'd see that there's several documented cases of him misinterpreting code and generally being a brute to work for. And with Anamaria
Island and Bronson are two examples that made the news. His behavior was so poor that an entire inspection agency, Bureau Verites, pulled their services from a municipality and refused to work with him. Next in person, we have Tim Drum.
Thank you. Well, I don't get 20 or 30 minutes to share my side. I will try to do my best. Um, I've never questioned the fact that geotechnical surveys are valid. Um, what I've questioned was Mr. Greenbomb's rulings. You go back to his original email to me when he was still
on friendly terms with me. He clearly stated it's because of chapter 18. I know they would like to present it's a weird background route all he also even states in his email he doesn't know that his predecessors didn't know what they were doing correct but basically he was paraphrasing um
sorry um so all the other building officials before him didn't know what they were doing all the other local ones that I provided information from Charlotte County Sarasota County Panoga they didn't require them because they are aware of the soils in the area like I mentioned I have done our companies on
over 75,000 septic designs. And with those septic designs, we are required by the state health department to do soil borings. These are slightly different than the ones that are like $2,000 from the geotechnical report. But in those reports, I list out what type of soils are they fine sand, sandy clay, lom,
anything like that. So we know and it's on the state database records what type of soils we have around here. If they are what they're trying to say it is, it would be it'd be out there. There's also United States Department agricultural websites, the natural resource conservative service that does their own
geotechnical surveys tell you what type of soils are around here, their characteristics, their profiles. So the information was there, it was historical and was provided and those are the arguments I would presented with Mr. Greenbomb, but he would not listen. You can confirm this with other staff if
you're allowed to speak to them that Mr. Greenbomb would not listen to any type of reason that I presented to him. Um, so I am fine with the geotechnical firms in the area saying yes, require them because they get more money from it. Um,
I could have charged more money to do the same reports, but I knew it wasn't required because I knew the soils. Like I said, I got to go out and do them. I got about 10 more to do this week. You're welcome to come with me. I will show you the soils that are here in Northport in surrounding areas. Mr. Greenbomb did not know. He could have
asked. I told him, "The soils here are not bad." I asked him, "What data do you have that proves that we have bad soils?" He said, "Well, that's the problem. We don't have any." He wanted to have the data. I think even previous organizations and websites, you can look it up. They claim this is something that
he's done in previous areas, too. Um, and again, I'm just looking at the overreach of the government stating you need to do something stating it was required by code. It was not required by code. And if this was such a substantial
problem, you would have a lot more homes settling and cracking because of this. Now, is 47 like is there acceptable number? No, there is no acceptable number. But you also need to know why it was caused in the first place before you want to throw it back in my face. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Tim Doyle. >> We got a regular paint in place going on here, don't we? The young crew won't know what that is, but I think all of you should. I'm not going to get into this argument.
I have some solutions. One, the houses down here are not built on foundations. They are built on slabs of concrete. A foundation is dug in the ground. You
put down a footing. Then you put up a wall and you build on that. That is a foundation. What you do here is you pour four, five inches of concrete in the middle of the house. You go over the edge, you make a loop, and you build some wood around it.
And you drop another 3 ft of concrete or something and you're calling that a foundation all on one pore, right? Not different pores, all on one pore. So that's why your houses are breaking in half because you don't have foundations.
You have slabs that you're building on filled dirt just like everybody is saying here. Now you could change your engineering survey to include what's in the cylinder, not just the compact. You could also have
the builders do when I had to build a building, take a sample of the crayon concrete and have it tested, right? So, anybody bringing Phil in to the property, they can take a little tube, this big, pour it in there, and you can
have it tested. Bingo. Doesn't cost anything. It's not a truck full of bill. Let's fix the problem. Cuz I do agree the foundations will crack down here by the way. And the codes and the laws down here are are not good. That's the whole
reason why I'm here. That's the problem. If you want to know why the C houses crack in half, it's because the fill and it's because there is no foundation. There's a foundation is 3 ft under the ground. And that would be on the direct soil of
whatever was there for the past million years. But all these we're built on swamp land. Everybody has to realize this. Every lot in my neighborhood was dredged out, thrown back up there. what happened in this area could never happen again in the United States. The people
wouldn't stand for it. So when it, you know, I don't know how much you're going to beat this geotech thing to the ground, but if you want to fix the cracking, you need to fix and put in real foundations. You really do have to put the soils in there and take
a sample of soils and keep it on file. Easy things to fix these things, but you guys can never come up with the easy things. That is all, Mr. Mayor. >> Thank you. City Manager, we've been here for a while. Do you want to take a lunch or take a break? I know we got one item
left. >> A break should be okay with one item, Mr. Mayor. >> We'll take 15 minutes and come back at It's 12:14. We'll come back at 12:30. it. Moving on to general business, item number 260404.
discussion and possible action regarding the establishment of a reduced rental rate for the Northport Senior Center incorporate incorporate to utilize the George Mullen activity center located at 1602 Kramer
Way, Northport, Florida 34286. City manager, this is your item. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So based on discussion at prior commission meetings, we have had the chance to interact with the senior center and their leadership regarding the transition from the senior
center over the awakened um excuse me the community education center sorry over to the mulling center uh which would be under parks and rex. I know they've had a lot of good conversation and commissioner department director funheller is going
to come up and lead us through the conversation. Sorry about that ma'am. >> That's right. All right, good afternoon everybody. Uh Sandy Funhiller, parks and recreation director. Uh as city manager said, we have had some good conversations since that December 1st uh 2025 workshop where
direction was provided to work with the Northport Senior Center to transition operations from the community education center to the George Mullen activity center. Um we were also um asked to look to explore two different operational
models. one being parks and recreation staff managing the senior center programming and the other the senior center continuing to manage their own programming at the new location. Uh pro following evaluation and discussion with the senior center board. Uh the board has elected to continue to operate and
manage its own programming. As part of the planning process, parks and recreation staff have conducted multiple meetings um with the board and we've reviewed their activities. We wanted to understand their space needs and develop a scheduling plan that fit into the existing programs at the Mullen
Center. Um, under the existing lease with the community education center, the senior center has access to approximately 4,880 square ft of dedicated space. The lease provides up to 50.5 hours per week of
usage Monday through Friday with a minimum operational requirement of 32 hours per week. The senior center currently pays 200 per month in rent that's due on the first day of each calendar month. Uh while the parks and rec department does not have the capacity to fully replicate this
dedicated space um and hours that are in the current lease um we have determined that a majority of their activities can be accommodated at the Mullen Center with some minor schedule adjustments and some more efficient shared usage. Um through this review, uh the weekly uses
needs have been paired down streamlined to about 29 hours per week and that is Monday through Friday. Uh parks and recreation staff um will be taking on all of the setup and breakdown of tables, chairs, and AV equipment for the scheduled activities.
This will reduce the workload previously carried by the senior center members and supports a smoother program delivery because space within the Mullen Center is shared among multiple community users and established parks and recreation programming. Exclusive use arrangements
are not feasible at this time. Accordingly, staff's recommending transitioning from a traditional lease uh to a flat monthly rental fee based on a bulk number of hours scheduled within the facility. This structure supports spare shared space scheduling,
accommodates the senior c center's program needs, aligns with the city's adopted fee schedule, and ensures consistent balanced access for all community programs. Based on the approved fee schedule, um we've developed three options for consideration. Um and I'm going to go
through those now. So, current rates at the Mullen Center. Um these are the spaces that we're looking at. at the gymnasium, meeting room B, meeting room CD, and the kitchen. Option one is to do a flat rate based on the current lease. So that would be the
rental payment to the city of $200 a month. And we're recommending up to 120 hours per month of facility usage. And that would be using the gymnasium meeting room CD as the primary spaces, although they would still have access to the lobby and the kitchen areas during
their time. Uh that equates to an annual payment of $2,400. The effective rate is basically $1.66 an hour and they get access to 7,662 ft of space. Option two is a flat rate aligned with
the youth athletic league discount that we're currently extending. Uh that would be a monthly payment of 774 for up to $120 per month. Um, and that is the gymnasium uh and the meeting room. The annual
payment would equate to 9,288. Um, and the effective rate goes up to $645 an hour again with the same access to space. And this is similar to um fees that have been approved previously by former or previous city commissions um
for youth football cheer and youth basketball. Then option three would just be applying the existing 501c3 hourly discount of 25% um to their usage and it would be calculated based on the actual use um that they have there. It would vary
month to month um again allowing them access to that same amount of space. Um this is just a quick comparison for you to see um annual cost differences u monthly rental fee rate basis and the space is the same
and with that I can answer questions >> commissioners vice mayor >> thank you mayor quick question what is the senior cent's current space utilization at the awaken church
location. >> What spaces are are they using there? >> Yes. >> One second. I pull up the lease. I don't have the that lease in front of me. Um Janet, can you speak to the spaces that they're using inside the
community education center? >> So to under Janet Kadri, your social services manager for the record. To understand your question, are you asking for the exact this square footage? Sandy mentioned it was the 4,800. So the CEC
is uh comprised of three areas and the senior center has two of those areas which equal the 4,888 ft. >> So 4,888 square ft of current usage. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you for that.
>> That's all I have. >> You're welcome. >> Okay. >> Um I did have a question. I don't see anybody else, but if anybody else wants to chime in, that's good, too. Um question on what would the actual cost be for if the parks and recck department
is doing all the setup and tear down that's going to be a cost to the city for time and >> that is that is not uh the way that rentals um are operated under parks and recreation um we do the setup and the breakdown um bring in the AV equipment
that is part of the fee that's charged to anybody using the space >> okay so that's included then >> yes Okay. Um, how difficult is it with your rescheduling? I know you've met with everybody involved in and the scheduling
going forward. Is it an easy consolidation or >> We've had to move some things around on our end uh to accommodate it. Um, I our biggest challenge um well there's there's a couple challenges. Our biggest challenge is in the summer. Um with summer camp going on at the Mullen
Center, we're serving almost 200 children. Um so that is a conflict during 10 weeks of the summer. Um what we've talked about with the senior center board is that we can accommodate two days a week during those 10 weeks um for activities. Um they were amanable to
that. Um so outside of the 10 weeks, we can accommodate all of their scheduling, their activities that they have Monday through Friday. Um but those 10 weeks are a challenge. Um we did offer uh to use other facilities, the Morgan Center,
um maybe the Scout House. Um but they felt like it was important for consistency to be in the same space. And then other challenges, um there they have office space at the community education center. We don't have office space available. Um as you know, every
it's at a a premium for all departments having enough office space. Um but we did find some solutions to that um with a um a rolling uh you know a portable desk that we'll bring out for them each day where they can operate from that. They are transitioning themselves um to
working off laptops. U so we've all come together how we can um figure out to get around those challenges. It's really just that 10 weeks of time that causes some scheduling conflict. >> Yeah. The the issue at hand here though
is I understand we're trying to do the best we can and I'm not saying that I'm totally against giving them the $200 a month, but when we're charging other entities a discounted rate, you know, it just it doesn't seem fair.
>> It's definitely different. Um, our thought was that you you'd want to move forward with the current rate structure um, at least for this initial um, period um, and look at it again in the next year. Um, I don't know at this time if they're going to continue to operate as
their own um, nonprofit organization. That may change in the future. If it does, parks and recreation is prepared to take on those activities um, under our umbrella. Uh but for now I thought we would move forward with the um same rate that's in the lease.
>> Okay. And when does their lease expire for this year? Is >> their current lease expires in June. Um and we are um Janet is going to be bringing forward a request to extend that lease through the end of August so that we can get through this summer um
and do their transition um starting in mid August over to the Mullen Center. And then we're also having an open house on March uh 24th at the Mullen Center so that the senior center members can come over, see the space, understand how it'll be used. Um get to know the staff there.
>> Okay. Well, it sounds like you got everything all your ducks in a row as they say. So it sounds good going on. And u and with the awaken, are they done in August as well >> over there at the building to where we're going to be able to
>> do some fixes? uh Wakens lease ends in June and then it'll be brought back before commission for another renewal year. >> Okay. Well, it's going to depend on the fixes and stuff that we had talked about going >> dep and depending on what the direction
is on on um what we're doing with their lease at that time, >> right? Okay. Thank you. >> Um Commissioner Pro. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um quick question. So the senior center proposing are you proposing is the use of 7,662
ft are they going to be using all of it or can they use less or we're going to schedule them in as as it fits in. Um so generally we're going to be using the gymnasium space which can be divided into two separate spaces. We be using
room CD which again can be divided into two separate spaces. Um so we're just we're trying to efficiently schedule everything. they'll have access to the kitchen as well. Um and then um in the lobby, we're creating more of a gathering space in the Mullen Center
lobby um to support um a lot of the um uh unstructured activities that take place at the senior center. >> So per square foot rental fee or annual cost if you will would be changed depending on the square footage they're going to be used. So the numbers will be
different, right? If we >> the numbers will not be different. We're just saying that they're having they're going to have access to so many square feet of space um that it's consistent with what they're using currently. >> Um and what we're trying to do is put
just a flat rate on it and say up to so many hours um per month or per year. Um anything outside of that would be charged at regular rates. But based on our discussions with them, um, right now 29 hours a week is what they need to
deliver their current activities um, at the senior center. >> And they expressed the the amount of space they want to use, correct? Like this exactly what they want. >> Minus the office space and and having an extra um, storage facility. Yes. Do you
see do you foresee any conflict of uh scheduling like um >> I think where we're going to see um scheduling conflicts is going to be with outside um rentals that are used to using the Mullen Center um coming in uh
that there may be some um conflicts with those things that happen um once a year type events um where they might have to start a little bit later or maybe even look at um doing something at the Morgan Center as opposed to the Mullen So whom do we give preference to? If we
have other rental requests that >> in this situation, the senior center would be given um priority after parks and recck programming is put in. Then we would do the senior center the same way that we do the um youth basketball and the cheerleading that we have. Um they
are prioritized after us and before we take outside rentals. >> And maybe I missed um I got distracted. which option do you recommend as as a staff? I >> initially I I would recommend going with their current $200 a month rate. Um it
is substantially less than anybody else is paying currently. Um but I think you know the fact that they're being displaced from where their current lease is. I think there needs to be some consideration there. But um in the future does that need to be raised? it
it probably should if we're going to be looking at the parks and recreation department's cost recovery um and trying to get that more in line, >> but I I would think it would be more of a gradual increase. >> And have you obviously you have had
meetings with them, how much revenue I know they're nonforprofit, but how much income, if you will, they get to offset the cost? are they able to get to pay more or >> um they they have said that they are looking at some different fundraising
options than what they're doing now. Um they do have a membership fee that they charge to members. I believe it's $20 a year. Um so and then some of their activities, there's an additional um couple dollars to take this program in addition to the membership fee. So it
depends on on what the activity is, but yeah, they're going to have to be a little more creative. Not that I want to not that I want to give any anybody preferential treatment, but yeah, they they're older folks. They they live their lives. I guess it's you
know, we're going to have more discussion on they live their active life, I shall say. So, we're going to have more discussion on the issue as far as the rent. This is more of a presentation context. We are looking for consensus today on one of the options because we
will need to bring back um an amended fee ordinance um for commission to approve in order to put that fee in place. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Commissioner or Vice Mayor Langden. >> Uh thank you, mayor. Um I do have one
concern as we consider this. when we were researching state statute and how municipalities are to approach rental rates etc etc. We discussed this
at our last meeting and state statute is pretty clear that we have to treat all nonprofits the same in terms of how we calculate rental
or there is an option open to municipalities. If we categorize different types of nonprofits, we could charge a different rental rate by those cate categor
categorizations, but within that category, everyone would be treated the same. So, I'm uncomfortable really doing something that is so far off how we're approaching other nonprofits.
Um, I'm just really uncomfortable with that because I think we're in a tough position to decide that one nonprofit will be treated one way and and the others will
be treated a different way. um if if we wanted to put something transitional in place and and I do agree they're being displaced etc etc etc there are extenduating
circumstances their effective rate right now is a $166 an hour in the Mullen center they're going to be accessing almost 40% greater square footage
should we simply apply that6 66 to the 7662 square ft that and that in my mind is giving them the same deal that they have
now, the same amount per square footage. So, so that's sort of how I'm reacting to this. It would be transitional, but at some point in the future, we need to treat all of our nonprofits the same. if and maybe our city attorney
would would like to weigh in on this, but when I read the regulations, state statute was pretty clear to me. Sometimes it's clearer to people who don't know anything than it might be to people who know the nuances of this stuff, but I thought it was pretty
clear. City attorney, what's your sense? >> Oh, I don't have the statue in front of me. Um, let me let me take a look. We'll take a look at it. >> Right. Yeah. Thank you. I'd appreciate that. >> Um, so that would be my approach. I
think giving them the same deal they have now is the 166 an hour, but apply it to the actual square footage they would be utilizing in the Mullen Center. And then my only other question is in
the higher rates that we charge everyone else, there's service time on the part of staff. So, you know, when I put my sort of hardass business hat on, I'd
say, well, okay, 166 per square foot plus some kind of service charge because we're doing their setup and tear down. And and to me, that would be fair. I don't know how my fellow commissioners feel.
>> I'm done. >> Okay. I did have another question though. You were talking about two different rooms. You were talking about the gymnasium and then another room in the scheduling of their events that I'm sure you've gone over what they want to
do for activities. If they were to come in on, let's say, Monday, I know it said 29 hours a week, but they come in on Monday, would they automatically need both rooms or can like some activities be confined to one room and the other
one be open? Let's say the office space, they they don't need the gymnasium today to where they can use something else. So, that would take away some of the square footage. they just needed the office space cuz they're doing poker or something, you know? I mean, >> we're only scheduling what they need.
We're not reserving space that they're not going to be in. So, if on Mondays they're in the gym, but Tuesdays they're not, it's not reserved for them. >> Right. So, that that's a scheduling type thing. So, >> and so that that those that'll go through parks and recreation to put into
the schedule. Um, we'll do that um we do that on a um every six-month basis. Um, and if if the senior center is looking to change or expand programming or something like that, it'll have to be a discussion with us um to make sure that it fits into the schedule, that there's
an appropriate place to put it and that it fits within the um bulk amount of hours that they're being given. >> Yeah. Because it'd be kind of hard 29 hours a week to have both of those just totally dedicated. >> Yeah. No, it wouldn't be. We'd still be doing uh parks and recck programming.
We'd still take rentals. Um, we're just trying to efficiently program it into what's available. >> Now, hypothetical, what if you you had brought up you have seasonal rentals and stuff like that for other nonprofits that may want to use the George Melon
Center for an expo or whatever the case may be. If it is a yearly event, let's say you have a problem with, okay, that's their Saturday night dinner or whatever they do over there. I'm not sure. But now we've got this expo going on. Who would
take priority >> in this scenario? The senior center programming, the year- round programming would take priority. The one-time events would need to either look at a different location or adjust hours slightly if if that was the concern. Um really their
activities are only going till about 4:00, 4:30 um Monday through Friday. So, um, it's going to be in the a setup that event may have in a setup before a Friday evening that it would affect. Um, so I don't think it'll be a lot, but
there are going to be some conflicts. >> Okay. Uh, Commissioner Stokes. >> Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm in favor of doing this. I think it makes a lot of sense. I know you guys have been jockeying around trying to figure out the best way to make this make sense. Our seniors need a space and so I'm all
for it. $200 doesn't mean anything. You know, it's certainly doesn't pay for anything and it's not making any money or costing. It's like a token payment until such time as we address the overall issue of what we're doing. And
we've got more discussions to come when it comes to what we're going to do about replacing the space and renovating the space or doing whatever we're going to do over there where Awaken is now and what else we might do in connection with helping other nonprofits to create space
that would be fair and equitable and adequate. So, this is to be continued. But I'm fine with this the way it is. They need to know they got a place to go and, you know, a place where they can meet. So, I'm good with it. That's all I got.
Mayor, >> back to you, Vice Mayor. >> Um, yeah, I just got a a better view. So, this 7600 square ft is not dedicated. It's flex space, so it might be more appropriate
to look at hours of utilization. So, I would see a different option. Um, I I' I'd like to see something that's more based on hours of utilization. That would also give them a break in the summertime when they're only using the
space for two days. And and that might wind up being something in between. Um, but I think we we need to be fair to everybody in how we approach this. And
so I'm really looking for some type of consistency. Again, I'm open to some kind of transitional agreement. I agree the senior center programming is very important for our city and our seniors.
Um, but we have a responsibility to all of our nonprofits and we have a responsibility to be consistent and fair to everybody. Um, so I would be very open to seeing an alternative option that's more based on hours of operation.
I don't know if we look at the dollar 66 by hours rather than square feet. Um, I'm didn't do that math, but just a a more balanced way of approaching it.
That's all I have. >> Anybody else? Public comment. City clerk >> Tim Doyle. >> I guess my first comment is uh going to be based on some of the things you guys said. I don't think all nonprofits are
the same. Uh you know, they might have all the same markings under the law and everything else. But some nonprofits take so much money out of the pie, it's not even funny. So, I don't think all nonprofits are
created equal. I know the law. I hear what you're saying about everybody has to be treated equal. I understand that. But, um, it's sometimes you got to speak the truth. I would say the senior center, you know,
is an important thing for seniors. A lot of them don't have spouses. A lot of them don't have children around here. And they're on their own. So for a place for them to go and mingle is a good thing.
Keeps their brain going. People see them. People can talk with them. Helps their mental being as well all the way around physically. So, I don't know what the right price is.
If if right now they can only afford 200 bucks, I don't have a problem with it. Is it for a good cause? Depending on who you speak to, I might be a senior. I might not, you know. Um, will I probably be going there? Probably
not. 20 years from now, you never know. But I think it's something that government should be doing. I think that's something that if my taxpayer dollars have to subsidize, I have no problem.
Other things I might not want to subsidize, like the computers and all your data centers, but I can subsidize a place for the seniors to go hang out and have a good time because that's what life's about. And
I'll leave it at that. >> That is all, Mr. Mayor. >> Thank you, sir. All right. going to be looking for a consensus. >> I'll make it. >> Go ahead. >> I'm looking for a consensus to ask city
manager to work with park staff to come back with a different option, payment option based on hours of operation as opposed to square footage. That's it.
>> Okay. We have a consensus. Would you read it back, please, sir? >> Sure. To excuse me. To direct the city manager to work with park staff to come back with a different payment option based on hours of operation as opposed to square footage.
>> Thank you, Commissioner Duval. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Stokes, >> Commissioner Pro, >> yes. And Commissioner Langden, >> I'm a yes. >> And I would be a no.
>> If I can just clarify, um the $200 a month that they're paying now, the 100 we're and we're recommending 120 hours a month. You take theund the $200
120 hours a month into the $200 comes up with a $166 effective rate. So, we're there. >> I would have someone else do a consensus. >> Well, yeah, because that the first consensus failed. >> So, I'll be looking for another
consensus. >> Oh, I'll try to make it. You >> go right ahead and read it off the paper if you like. >> Exactly. I'd like uh I'd like a consensus direct city manager to create a flat rental rate of $200 per month for
up to 120 hours of monthly facility use mirroring the rent payment identified in the current lease agreement between the city of Northport and the Northport Senior Center Inc. Okay. We have a consensus up to direct the city manager to create
a flat rental rate of $200 per month for up to 120 hours of monthly facility use mirroring the rent payment identified in the current lease agreement between the city of Northport and the Northport Senior Center Incorporated. Commissioner Dval,
>> yes. >> Commissioner Stokes, >> I'm a yes. >> I'm a yes. Vice Mayor, >> I'm a yes. I can justify that. and Commissioner uh Commissioner Pro, >> I'm a yes. >> All right, that consensus passes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you guys. Thank you very much.
Thank you all from the senior center for sitting and being patient and letting us work through this. >> And city clerk, do we have any final public comment? >> Yes, we do. Uh Joseph Majorino still here. >> No, sir.
>> Okay. Tim Doyle. >> All right. So, this is public comment, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Last week when I was here, you guys sent a letter out in support of an important uh subject.
So, I'm going to ask you guys to send out some letters. You guys can discuss it on your own and see if you want to do any of these things that I'd like you to send a letter to. I would like a letter to go to
Greg Stwie. I'd like a letter to go to Rick Scott and I'd like a letter to go to Donald Trump on what they are doing for our protection of this city. I don't know of any fallout shelters in
this city. I don't know of any bomb shelters in this city. I don't see any air raid sirens in this city. From the time I was born, I heard air raid sirens at 12 noon on Saturdays.
Then when I moved from that community up to New Hampshire, we had a nuclear power plant and not every Saturday, but whenever they would have a one of the drills, I would hear the siren going off. These sirens will help you in
hurricanes, tornadoes, attacks from other countries, drones. So, I think we need to start to do something about our security in this town. And that's going to cost some money to put up these sirens. Other
cities in Florida have sirens up for the exact same reasons I just stated. Tsunamis, right? Hurricanes. They're not just for war. You should ask for public funding. Since they're giving all our money to the Ukraine and all these other
countries, we should get something here for our defense. And the next letter I would like you to send them is asking them to set up roadblocks on Interstate 75 to catch the 10 million illegal aliens who are in this country.
These 10 million eagle islands are the soldiers from other countries sitting here ready to be called up. Now you all know my adult life. I lived in New Hampshire. In New Hampshire, the border patrol sets
up roadblocks on the interstate and shuts down the entire highway and stops every car to see if they're American citizen. I am closer to an international border standing right here than in Woodstock, New Hampshire where they set up these roadblocks or in White River
Junction. I'm wearing this shirt today cuz the ranger who grew up in my house is getting sent to Korea to jump out of a plane. He thinks it's just war games. I think
it's World War II. These politicians have to get their act together just like on your level. We need those sirens. >> That is all, Mr. Mayor. >> Thank you.
All righty then. It's 10:03 and I'm going to adjourn this meeting.