--------- Are you ready to do roll call? Yes. Uh, council member in order. Council member Nordby here. Council member Woods here. Council member McKenzie here. Council member Schwar here. Mayor Mongi
here. Thank you very much. One second. Sudden my whole computer went. Right. Tonight's I got a motion to adopt the agenda, please. So move. So move. Council member McKenzie.
Second. Second. Council member Schwer. All those in favor say I. I. Thank you. Topics. Thank you, Mayor. We got one topic on the agenda this evening and that is the 2026 budget for continued discussions on our CIP and I will turn that over to
Dan, our finance director. Well, thank you very much uh mayor, council members. Um tonight is part two of the capital improvement plan. Um if you remember the last workshop that we had, we covered the first part which was
approximately 50% of the cost over the next 10 years from uh 2026 to 2035 in the capital improvement plan and that uh pretty much covered uh the streets um component to it. So tonight we're going to be covering
the other parts and this is pretty much an open ask questions. Um get in for any information that you need. Again going to kind of show some of the information that we've already kind of seen tonight. We'll kind of cover the remainder of the
CIP. We'll kind of look at the proposed levy where we're at and then some other information and then have a discussion. So the next uh meeting, next workshop that we have uh the first meeting in September, we'll have to make decisions on where we want to be with that maximum
um levy. Um and then the following uh meeting um it'll actually be at city council. I'll have all the resolutions to certify the maximum levy um that we need to get in by the end of September um to the county. And a reminder that
it's a maximum levy. We can always bring it down. um it doesn't become final approved until December. Um but we can't go up beyond that. Um so as we looked at the 2026 2035 the numbers have changed a
little bit. If you remember I had kind of talked about that there was some discussion that was um happening on both the water tower that um is scheduled um now it's scheduled in 2029. And so we wanted to confirm what our estimated
cost was that. Um and then also the ladder truck for the fire department. So tonight we're we're really going to be kind of looking at that the asset preservation. Um and the park dedication. Um we're going to be looking
at um the electric fund. Uh we're going to be looking at the equipment fund, park fund. So it's kind of the remainder of of those components. Um, so we have uh our fire chief Jason Melinger here to kind of talk a little bit about the ladder truck because that's going to be
a a high cost um item and then also um Ron since he covers so many of the budgets um but he can also address kind of the the water tower and what we're looking at um with that and then um any other questions that you have we certainly will try to answer those
questions for you. need to really emphasize again and been trying to do this the last couple of meetings what this means this 26 2035 capital improvement plan and what it means is that to be able to afford that we need to do what this is showing for
the streets and the street debt that we need to have a $248,000 levy. It's not just this year. It's going to be for at least the next seven years on the street part to it. Um, right now that's about a 3.2% levy increase.
Then there's the parks and what's in this plan right now would require an additional $30,000 which is not in our current budget um when we were at the 6% for the city and 5.84% overall. So it would need to be added to
be able to afford what's in the parks plan. And then the asset preservation um needs a $142,000 increase. Now, both the parks and the asset preservation are going to be needed for the next 10 years, those increases. So, what it means is that
right now we're going to be starting every year with an approximate 6% levy increase. It goes down a little bit. As our levy keeps going up, the percentage obviously will go down a little bit, but it's still going to be up above that 5% range to afford what's in here. In
addition to that, it's going to have impact on our internal service funds because in our internal service funds, we charge back equipment and and um building maintenance. Um right now, what's in the plan would end up we would end up needing an approximate 5% per
year increase into those. And for the levy, that's going to be about a $28,000 or.36% levy increase. And for the non-levy component, which is really our our uh enterprise funds, our utilities, um it's going to need an increase of just under
$14,000 in addition to that to be able to afford this plan. And the bigger the biggest driver is for the water. It's going to be that water utility for the water wastewater and the surface water. They're all going to be really they're
being driven by the road the major re road reconstruction projects um and the costs associated with those. Right now on a 10-year uh financial plan, we're looking at of the wa the water, wastewater, and surface water that we're
going to need a 6% increase in those rates starting in 2027 all the way out to 2035 to be able to afford this plan. solid waste. Um we're working on an RFP. Um we, you know, collectively city
council gave us the direction not to change those rates until we go out for that RFP, which we will do next year. Um I think September 1st, um a new contract will go in place and at that point in time, we'll have to adjust the rates. Uh
right now the rates we're taking a loss, but we we've had a fund balance in there and that was the decision city council had made um a few years back to to not raise those rates at that point in time. So there will be a rate change um for that one.
All in all, what I'm trying to emphasize is that there's a lot of cost here. Um and this is our big driver of what's going to contribute to the increases in our levy requests. it's going to
increase um taxes for our residents and that's where we need to make sure that what's on here um meets the goals of what the city council wants. Um that we adhere to this as best that
we possibly can. things always change, but it's difficult to then add on huge expenditures on top of that because it's already having this much of an impact. So, anything that we add in addition is going to end up being higher and higher
and higher. Um, I do have some some graphs towards the end of this presentation um to kind of show you um where we're where we're at and for I think I got a 10-year look at what the levy has been, what the fiscal disparities has been over the past 10
years. Um, and then kind of a comparison in the past five years of what the levies and the levy changes for cities in Ramsey County have have been. And and you'll be surprised at that. Even though we have the second highest tax rate, um
we've been pretty much in line um in the middle of those levy increases the past five years. But our rate will be higher because we don't have that market taxable market value that some of the other cities have
gotten in the growth that they've received. And a lot lot of that is, as you're well aware, we're predominantly a residential um city. We don't have that commercial base. Um and flip side to it, without that commercial base, that's why we're a
winner on the fiscal disparity side to it. So, when we look at the the categories and um that are here, uh tonight we're going to be talking about the categories of building and facility improvements, capital technology, which there isn't a
great deal into parks and playgrounds, parks and open services. Um and then we're going to be looking at the ponds and natural resource resources, um vehicles and equipment. Um so here's the facility um one into here and the
facility numbers are are what are coming um from the uh w facility assessment that was done and completed uh I think last year. Um so the numbers are just being carried over. Um if you remember
we actually will have to go into the um w report to see the detail because it just shows the summary by facility on our capital improvement plan itself. But you can see in 2026 um you know the big expenditure that u
is part about on the plan is the community center building. Um and if we look over the whole 10 years um the total need on our building facilities is $17 million. Um, and again, to be able to afford all
of that with the money that we have today, we're also going to need to be increasing our levy approximately $142,000 year after year after year all the way through um to be able to afford what's on here. Questions?
I have a question. Sure. Um, so for facilities, this is either just needed maintenance or deferred maintenance that's needed to the buildings or other facilities that the city owns. Correct. Correct.
Correct. Okay. Yeah, it covers all of the facilities. It covers your three major facilities of being public works, city hall, and community center. Your three major facilities that you have today. Um, and you guys can jump in anytime. I don't
believe there's too much cosmetic or aesthetic um improvements that are in any of these plans. It was pretty much um you know, roofs um you know, anything that had to do with exterior as far as waterproofing and so forth. Um this is
where um earlier this year um because it was in the 2025 uh the card access system um it was it was more of all of those types of components that are in there. It's not um you know wall
coverings, painting and that kind of stuff. It's more roofs um HVAC equipment. We have to realize that those three major facilities all have something pretty close in common and they're all 20 years of age. Normally
your your roofs uh depending on what type of roof it is um is going to last you know 25 30 at tops um HVAC systems 20 25 years. So, we're all we're at that point with our unfortunately with our
facilities um that there's going to be a lot of uh needs and and costs associated with that just to maintain them in basically in their I'll say current states um to make sure that everything is still operational.
Why we're at this point is kind of where we kind of started back, you know, as a city, you know, four years ago. And that is they're truly to me, you know, there there was an equipment replacement schedule. There was a look at streets um
from a five-year um street program really looking at um the major reconstruction every other year, but there really wasn't that comprehensive look. Obviously, there was nothing that was on our facilities. So
there truly wasn't money dedicated for a plan to take care of our facilities in the manner in which they they need to be. So now we're playing catch-up. Um and we're we're having to, you know, be able to fund those because they're
coming due within, you know, the majority of it's coming due within the next five to six years. And so that's where um you know for the you know this current city council was the one who approved that facility assessment from W which then allowed us
to start gathering the data and then make sure that we were being as comprehensive as possible. And if you remember last year that got added into the capital improvement plan which is significantly needed. Um, but there's a cost associated with that and um, and
that's where uh, you know, my part of my responsibility is to to to let you know what would you have to do to be able to afford this? Your perspective is to look at these things and say, hey, do we really need it? Um, and our department
head should be able to give you justification and answers to why those items are needed. Um, and I think that you'll you'll find one of the biggest things. So, we haven't had a lot of the facility repairs being done since I've I've been here, but one of the things
and and I, you know, I'll have Ron and and Jason speak to this that I personally and I I have been in government and and watched facilities and and uh replacement schedules for
many many years. Um, I have never been as proud as I am of our department heads that we have on how fiscally responsible they truly are. Um, when we sit down and we look at this plan and they edit it from year to year, they'll sit and look
and even though on a a replacement schedule it says, "Hey, this this vehicle should be replaced in 10 years." So, two years from now, we got to replace that. I'll sit with them and they'll be the first ones to say, "You know what? it it's it's perfectly fine.
We don't have a lot of maintenance. Um we can push this out, you know, two three years. Um and and they'll do that piece to it. That's pretty impressive. Um so they are they do a very very good job. So this is what the facilities
based upon um you know the w um assessment what it's going to cost us. Um, I think we've uh recently did an RFP for some HVAC work here um in the city hall. Um, and I do believe um, and
Randy, you may want to speak to this a little bit more. Um, but what the W's number had in it versus what um, the the results came back of the of the proposals is higher. Yes.
Yeah. So, and just through that or for that W report there there was ratings one through I think four or five for the the needs and we went through those multiple times kind
of with a fine tooth comb and just sectioned out all the ones the most important ones that were on there. And there's a lot of stuff on there. we, you know, there's $100 for cocking and $50 for this or $200 for that. And that that little stuff that we can do that we're
like Dan had spoke about or um like the the HVAC, the leaking roofs, the um kind of the major stuff that needs to be addressed. I know Randy has met with uh contractors, roofers up on the city hall roof here. We've been spraying water on
the roof trying to find where these leaks are coming from, finding if it's roofing, if it's siding. We've had contractors out here, the roofers out here. Um the HVAC um the RFP just got closed for the HVAC stuff. Um and
talking with the HVAC guys and the roofing roofing guys and Randy can probably speak to it a little better because he was out here with Burwald, but I think the Burwald roofers were saying that we can probably hold off on the roof. Normally you do the HVAC when you do or you do the roof when you do
the HVAC because you're pulling everything off with cranes and they have cranes here to do the roof and you there's some cost savings. But I think they said that with with the shape the roof in here in city hall we could probably get the HVAC stuff done and maybe come back five six seven years
later and do the roof. But just so you guys know that it we're shopping around and doing what we can within this report and trying to find what the best way the most affordable way to do these big projects that need to be done, you know, probably, you
know, sooner than later, but they don't probably don't all have to be be done at the same time. So we can have some time to, you know, have have the money set aside to do these or to do these properly and to do them in a responsible way where we're not just
fixing the HVAC and then coming back in three years and doing the roof and having those things pulled off or working around those where it'll cost more money. So I don't know if there's anything you want to add. Well, just with Burwald uh coming out too, like I said, they were really impressed with the roof on how well it is. And like they said, they wouldn't
touch it. And the one thing that they pushed, what I talked to Dan about is they said just having our roof being so sectioned off, we could plan, you know, like a three-year deal and do like one area, do the next area and the other area because they're not all adjoining. Okay. So it at least cuts down yeartoear and
what we're spending. Was that built built that way back in 04 then? That way just how with just in sections? They're not adjoining at all. Okay. And I and I know when we've talked about the facilities um before, I know that,
you know, people have kind of picked apart or you guys have picked apart, you know, hey, can't we do this or can't we do that? The little cocking stuff and and we we definitely most definitely can. Um there's smaller contractors out there that have looked at some of this stuff. So, I mean, I don't want you guys to get lost in in all them little
little, you know, $100, $500 things. You know, that stuff will be handled. It's we're looking at like the bigger things and working with Dan and Brian on, you know, hey, this is kind of where we're at. This is what the bids came in at for new HVAC for this building and we can
this absolutely needs to be replaced. This, you know, so we're we're checking out all the different avenues that we can to try to make this as affordable as, you know, we can for for the city. So, um yeah, I guess I don't have to say
about that. other questions that you have regarding the building and facility improvement section or I mean I guess one question I have so just looking at the big numbers um the public works building in
uh the $3.9 million um in sorry 2031 which I know is like six years out but what I mean what's the What what's needed there? Is that HVAC stuff or
I think the biggest cost in that one's the roof. Is that the roof? Roof and Harley at track at the same time. Okay. Same thing. That's something that might get pushed out if it's in the same shape that this one is. Okay. I'm guessing. And again, that that's kind of the whole the whole deal.
Yeah. There. So, yep. Being it's that far out, you know, the closer it gets, the more we'll kind of pick it apart. Okay. We have roofers. We we usually call up a few different contractors, have them come out, look at it, get different opinions. Hey, what do you what are your thoughts? What do you
think? You know, what can we do? You know, so working I mean, we're fixing some of the leaks without having to do a major, right? Yeah. And I guess I'm not trying to, you know, nickel and dime it or anything like that. I'm just trying to figure out like and roofs go out. I mean, that's just
the nature of the just nature of buildings. And I think it's the HVAC at public works, too. I mean, we do have one unit that's out right now that we have on order, you know, so I mean, that stuff might not be quite the 20, but it's there and we're starting to show the wear. Yep. Okay.
What year was that building on First Street built? Your your public works building. Public works is 2009. That's it. Okay. Yeah, we still call it a new public works building. Yeah. Well, it Yeah.
I remember what you used to work out of. Just like anything else, some things go faster, some things take, you know, like the year, we we got a little break, so we just don't know. Yep. Best guess. Dan, um something you said earlier, um
the 6% increases to the um basically all three water funds, does that fully fund the water tower? Um yes, it does. Okay. And and then um do you have a g best guess and I believe it would be a guess
when the next one after that would be due. The next what water tower is that a 20 year? Is that a I can't give you an answer to that. Okay. This one we're doing more because of a cap capacity shortage. So I would say that the other one would be more just routine maintenance.
Yeah. Yeah. It it this exactly what Randy said. This is a capacity thing that has been on the the list for a long time. 15 15 years um 20 years maybe. I don't know. But um where this
would where this water tower would need a rehab. I the one that we'd be replacing. The the biggest factor is the capacity. Um and then the the other driving fact would be if we had to rehab this water tower. I I don't know what
the exact numbers would be to rehab it, but I I'm just throwing a number out there. It probably be a million and a half dollars, $1.3 million to The person behind you is agreeing with you. Okay. Yeah. Um Morgan's not going to talk today, but he'll give us the sign. There we go.
Um yeah, so Morgan, you jump all over me. Morgan's way more in tune with this than I am, but them are, you know, some of the the factors and the water tower since I've been in any type of position to look at this kind of stuff. Um, you know, it's I saw in one of her report
they said, "Hey, you have a shortage of storage here." And I when I knew nothing about anything, I got in a panic and I think I talked to Morgan and he's like, "Ah, that's been like that for a while." You know, so yeah. All right. And there was no other talk of a water tower going in any other spot
or anything like that over the years. Mr. Mayor, members of the council, so that was studied um in a study I think that was completed in like 2020, 2019, 2020. Um and that that it was a tower sighting
study that looked at, you know, um different options. One of them being could another tower be built in a like a third location have a third tower basically to kind of uh satisfy the capacity or storage capacity shortfall
that the city has been facing for some time. Um ultimately I think from uh economies of scale and just available real estate uh the preferable alternative for the north tower was to reconstruct next to the existing tower,
keep the old tower online as long as possible. Obviously that impacts some uh playground equipment and things like that, but then uh when the new tower is done, take the old tower down next to it, maybe repurpose some playground equipment and kind of repurpose the park
at the bottom there. Um and from a life cycle standpoint, that was one of the metrics from a finances standpoint. Um you know, there was a recommended alternative. So that basically was studied a few years ago. That's the estimate with inflationary adjustments that has been in the CIP this uh this
this entire time. Question. Uh what water tower are you talking about? The north tower. Uh I don't I don't know where the tower park between 13th and 14th Avenue. Yep. Okay. Just north of high school. Okay. Yep. North of high school. And we have two
wells. There's wells one and two that are right next to that tower. And then the other one, the other water tower is one at Northwood, right? Correct. Yeah. Northwood. Yep. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Appreciate it, Morgan.
Thank you. Yep. I know. Other questions on the buildings and facility improvements? No. Uh capital technology really what's in here is just the SCADA. Um, we
incorporate in the technology fund, which is an internal service fund, computer replacement, and that stuff is included in the operating budget. Um, because we're on a pretty much a I think there uh Metro Inet moved to kind of like a five-year replacement
schedule. Um, so we have something in there every single year to replace some computers that are that are being outdated. Um, and then there's the parks. I think we've kind of I don't know if we've we've really looked at all of the park
pieces, but this is what um with the assistance of uh the park and rec commission um and uh council member Schwar sits on that. This is um what they've come up with um for their 10-year plan um at this point in time.
And you can see over the 10-year period that comes to just under $7.2 2 million. And again, to be able to afford this um would require um um an increase um in the levy of
$30,000, which to date we do not have um in um the budget, which would be something that we it's one of the items that you know kind of outstanding for discussion, which will be at the end of our presentation here tonight, which then will continue um the first meeting
in September. questions on parks. Yeah, the sidewalk uh along Mcnite Boulevard. Is that the east side of the street? North along which one? 11th, right?
No, it would have been the east side. East side. Yeah. Yep. It was from South Avenue. Yeah, that's what I meant. Uh Anchor Anchor Drive. the new anchor drive. Has it been determined?
Um I mean I feel like the apartment complex that was just built there has majority of that side of the street as it determined what part of that is the city's I I did not this isn't something that I
put in in there. This is something previous. Um I think we just left it in there. Yeah, it was in there. Morgan. Morgan. Thanks, Morgan. Um, as I recall, and I'm going off of memory here, but when the original modern CIP that you guys have have been
looking at for the last several years was compiled using a lot of different planning uh documents. I believe the sidewalk connection on the east side of Mcnite was something that was either identified in the comprehensive plan or another planning document that it was thought at the time. We need to we can't
just delete things because you know uh they need to be carried forward. And so um that that is where that item came from. Um, when the anchor development went in, staff with the developer did look at the feasibility of building a
portion of sidewalk on the east side. Had some conversations with Ramsey County because the city was engaged with Ramsey County at the time for the new traffic signal at Mcnite and Anchor Drive. Um the the right-of-way needs and
the grades um are very difficult to contend with in terms of adding a pedestrian facility or you know a trailer, a sidewalk or something outside of the curb line on that side of the road. And the county did kind of say, "Yeah, that's a I mean $200,000 in the
budget might not be enough depending on, you know, some further analysis on what the rightway needs would be. uh knowing that especially uh there's a home on the corner of I think South A and um yeah South South A and Mcnite that is kind of
up in the hill and there's not a lot of boulevard space there for a walk or a trail right and so you know retaining walls additional right away and it's a county road it's not a it's not a city street and there's an existing facility on the west side of the road right so um
you know priority and where that needs to fall in relation to you know expenditure city expenditure features uh for other pedestrian uh facilities throughout the city. That's certainly up to the city council, but those are some of the challenges that um that particular improvement faces. So, it
doesn't make it a bad idea. It's certainly been in the adopted plans for some time, right? But there are some challenges there that are certainly um acknowledged by the county and and would be challenges that if the city led a project there, that would likely need to be funded by the city.
Thank you. Appreciate it, Morgan. I guess with that 200,000, I would like to talk about that further. I mean, obviously it's there are challenges. I mean, as the naked eye sees it, I mean, that there is some challenges with that.
So to have it budgeted for 2026, um if that's somewhere if those dollars can be reallocated somewhere else for a sidewalk or um because this this looks like a larger study that we'd have to do uh to
navigate whether a sidewalk can go there or not. Was parks asking for that? No, I'm just putting I'm just putting it out there. or is it something you guys want to remove from there since there is a sidewalk on the other side of the road and there's traffic signals on either
side for crossing for pedestrians. Um, does this make sense? That's why I'm bring it up for discussion. Yeah. Other thoughts from the council members on this? [Music] N
I mean my my thought if Cassidy is willing is to bring it before her group and see what her group comes back with the recommendation. Um that'd be my thought. I mean what she says kind of makes sense to me.
Mhm. to to further it back refer the money back into our Yeah. see if it's feasible to even do right. We'll have this brought back to I will bring it back to parks and wreck. Perfect. Thank you. Other questions on items that are in um
this parks and playgrounds path and open space section. If there's no other questions, we'll kind of look at uh natural resources. Um there's I think what five items on there. Uh the remainder of the emerald
ashbor program. Uh pond vegetation management. Um there's the uh I think silver silver lake aiator um pump uh Casey Lake aiator pump replacement and
then um pond dredging maintenance any questions is a dredging and maintenance of the park something. Are the ponds something that we normally do? Yes. Okay. Um it's they're evalued. Morgan, when did we last have them all evaluated?
We just did an update last year. Last year. Okay. They checked the sediment, you know, in the inlets and outlets out there. See where they what needs to be, you know, dredged. Okay. Or heights of water and depth. Then does that include the natural like down
by Silver Lake where they have that holding pond that goes into the lake. Is that part of that too then? Yep. Yeah. The um so the last couple few of these that we've done we've let the Ramsey Washington Metro wershed district
lead them because they actually take care of the mobilization costs and the bidding and um some share of the engineering as well too. So in terms of I guess dollar for dollar dollar value piggybacking on their annual program because it's a
large project that they actually put out for bid and so the prices unit prices tend to be a little bit lower for our little pond. So last year we did it's usually winter work. Last year uh you know again with them we did the pond just south of South Avenue by Cowan Elementary. Um, and this year on the
list, they're still looking at it, but I think they might do the other pond further south uh of that one um in the southwest corner of the Cowin Elementary pond as well, too. So, that's historically what that budget line item has been used to fund. And usually the prices come in really good. So, um, but
that's what we have out there right now. Okay. Where are these ariators in Silver Lake? So the ariator in Silver Lake is over on the norththeast side in in Maplewood
[Laughter] in Randy County. You know, that up by the uh boat launch up there in Dry Park on that closer to be to the east of there, close in between Century and the boat launch
in there. Um, we inherited that um, two years ago, I believe. Um, I think I believe the county took care of it and then the county decided that they didn't want to do it anymore. So,
Maplewood said no to it and um, yeah, and I think a decision was made to keep to take it over. that wasn't well I guess it it when it happened I was around so yeah it's
something that we just kind of inherited um and the maintenance c or the maintenance numbers that we have on there are from the previous uh pumps and there's a bath there's a pump and there's a baffle apparently that that's in there's like a wet well for it where
it where water comes in and goes out um but Ramsey County did pay us some money Yep. But I think we offered to pay them a chunk of money for them to do it and they said now with Maplewood being part of that property now our our property line
through that lake falls where then because they consider it north as Silver Lake. Yeah. I know. I realize it's not property but Maplewood owns Joy Park. Correct. Or Ramsey County does as part of the Maplewood program.
Mapwood. Yes. And I think North St. Paul has like twothirds of the lake and Maplewood has a third. Is that about right? Splits are kind of Yeah. I I I honestly I don't know exactly where that little more than 2/3. Okay. I just know that the pump is in
Maplewood, Ramsey County, and we're we're taking care of it. Last year we didn't have to put it in if I remember right. Right. Last year we did Yeah. Last year we did turn it on. Oh, we did. Okay. Yep. Yep. Last year we did turn it on. the year before we did not. So, the county, Ramsey County, still monitors
the oxygen level in the lake and lets us know when it needs to be turned on. Now, does that keep it uh somewhat moving the water so the fish won't Yep. It's to keep It's to keep open
water for oxygen levels for the fish. Yes. So basically it sucks sucks water in on one side and and shoots it out the other side and sprays it back in the lake. And so I can do cold water ice rescue training in January, February.
Oh, what else is Well, since it's since he uses it the most, can it just be part of his budget? Can't come out the fire budget because it practice that. Okay. All in favor of moving that I
You guys need to get that uh county uh airboat. Yeah. I was curious where was that money put, Dan? Do you remember for I believe it was the initial offer was what 10 or 15 and we asked for like
20. Yeah. Did we dump that into the CIP or do we is that a separate sit? Well, there isn't actually a CIP. It's in one of the funds. I think it would have been in the fund that pays for this air raator, which would be the
Yeah, probably more than likely. Yeah, whatever the appropriate longevity on I think they I think they said that the the life expectancy of them were like was like 15 years is what they said. replaced recently. Yeah, everything was replaced within a couple years is at least that's what
they told us. So, we should probably put that in the CIP. What's that? I said so we should probably put that in our CIP. Yeah. Replacement of that. That's why we have it in there. That's why it is in there. Yeah. Yeah. Something. So, nobody knows how old it is, though.
They said I I believe they said it was it was a few years old when we took it over. We picked these years based off the people they gave us. the best of our knowledge. To the best of my knowledge, maybe it can be
looking at the not a ton of money, but yes, it was a thing. We didn't pick it up. And then the lake and freeze over said we're not going to maintain it anymore. You can take it if you want. Other questions on this section? Thanks.
And we'll move on to utility infrastructure. And this is where you're going to see that uh the new tower park water tower um in 2029. Um and then you know it has well rehabs. So when you look at this utility
infrastructure they're being fun you know it's being funded by our utilities either water wastewater surface water. Um so um that's where you're seeing um the cost for these. Dan I'm confused. You said it is the Northwood Tower that's going to be
replaced. No. Oh, Tower Park. The I'm sorry. The new I said I'm the new Tower Park. Okay. It's the North Water Tower. So is what? Which is in Tower Park. The Northwood water tower. Oh. In tow
a lot of Nores around here. Then you can you can see the Northwood water tower paint and rehab in 2032. boy. It's called North and South Tower. And then and then you have a a a big one because I think they're what hitting
their 15 what is it? 20 years for the meter replacement 20-year program. Yes. So the water meter replacement program, the meters were replaced roughly 15 years ago is when we started. They were they started to get installed. Um,
one year there's going to be just a like a hundred of them put in or a ten of them I think put in and turned into just we just kept going replacing the water meters. So they were replaced over the course of about three yearsish. Um, we were installing them as public works and
then it just got to be too much. So a company was hired to go out and help install the meters. Well, the water meters are a sealed meter and there's a battery in them. and they have a battery life of about 20 years. There's a there's a meter and a radio and they
have about a 20-y year life cycle. Now, just speaking with them, we have a little bit of flex on those um as far as timing, but we're going to have to start replacing them because, um our commercial meters that we put in, our bigger ones, inch and a half and bigger meters, uh they have a you can replace
the the head on them that has the actual meter on them with the battery in it. And there's a 10-year life cycle on those. And pretty much all of those have gone out at 10 years in a day. I mean, they're like right around there like clockwork. So, um, we have to get this
on the schedule to having to go out and start replaces. Um, obviously we're not going to be able to do it all physically and financially in a year. Um, so it's going to take some time and you know we're going to look at you know trying to hire someone to to do that just
because it's a it's a big job getting it was it was tough getting in everyone's home to homes to begin with. Now after co it's going to be probably even more of a challenge. Um, we we try to install the radios outside on a lot of these so we can do a lot of troubleshooting from outside the people's home without having
to go in them. But we do have a a fair amount of uh radios inside people's homes, too. But like I said, that meter replacement program, you know, we're going to have to start that just to try to get ahead of it. And the the meters back then were kind of installed
randomly throughout town. So, you know, I'd say each week, you know, we deal with kind of meter problems on a day a daily basis. Um, I think they say the faulty rate on them is acceptable is like 1%. You know, you're kind of always kind of
dealing with something. Um, but we're just going to probably take a chunk of town and, you know, break it into thirds or quarters, however we, uh, you know, can financially do it, and just start and replace all the replace all the meters. So that's what will be coming in
what do we have 27 I think starting that starting. So and it sounds like the meters they're pretty much the same type of deal is you know they don't have a meter that has a 40year life on it anymore you know 40
year or longer life but kind of is what it is and that's our our system census that reads the meters and I think uh half the electric meters also. So, trying to bring the old guys out of
retirement. Used to walk house to house, look at the outside. What was Yeah, I was I was working here when we still had the meter readers. What What was his name? Uh I think there's a there's a handful of them. Martin, he just needed a pacemaker. He didn't need a battery. Maybe he did then for the pacemaker.
I remember talking to him all the time. Yeah, nice guy. Ron, just out of curiosity, um, the water meters aren't rocket science to install. Do do you know have any cities ever let homeowners install their own?
No, it is not rocket science, but well, but you know, and I don't mean this in any negative way. I mean, most people don't even know where their water meter is in their home. you know, when we did this, uh, just having people look
at what type of service line comes in their house just to tell us that, you know, it it's, you know, and at the end of the day, it's really not a big deal, but a lot of when we went in because I was a person, we Randy and I both were people out
there on the front line starting to put these in. You're going down to a valve that hadn't been touched in 80 years and you touch that valve and you replace that meter and then all of a sudden there's water leaking out of that valve and a day later there might be water
leaking out of it or I mean it's just uh and them valves probably haven't been touched since the last time we were in there. It you know 15 20 years ago. I I just don't know how much of a benefit that would be to us at the end of the day you know. Plus,
we got to program and link the two together, you know, as we install. Okay. Yes. So, like I said, we have a radio outside. There's a wire that runs from the radio inside. Um, and then it connects to the meter and then basically you marry the two together when when you leave. So, the radio picks up the
signal, you know, from the meter. So, there's a there's a computer program that we use for that. So, and the meters can be put in backwards, so they run backwards or and don't ask me how I know that, but writing checks to them. There's a little I mean, it is not
rocket science, but there's a little to it. And even the people that do them all the time, they install backwards and Okay. And for olding older homes, it's the ground source. So, if you come across that, it can kill you if if there's a load on it.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's another thing, you know, a lot of the meters they, you know, a jumper cable has to be installed. Before there wasn't a jumper cable because it was a metal meter. You know, all your grounding for your house goes through your water service. So when we put these plastic meters in, there's
a jumper cable that was installed to keep that ground in place, too. So, fun fact, I pulled mine off the wall when I was when I moved in. You guys came in and you were like, "Oh, there's something wrong with your water.
Got tired of that bill, huh? You hear that one? Yeah, we we had your mug shot up at the shop for a while. We don't need that. That said, you really don't want anyone. Any other questions? Yep. Yes. So, the electric vehicle charging
stations in 2027, is there a big call for those? I guess I mean, have we had a lot of people reach out to us and be like, "Hey, why doesn't the city have these? No, we haven't. Okay. We had the one in front of city hall here um which wasn't used a real lot and
uh we had one that was going to go behind uh K&J. Oh, okay. Um and it was going to be supplied by our power supplier, but unfortunately the vendor they chose, they had nothing but problems and uh so they kind of backed away from that. So, okay.
I just I not Thank you. Great question. just asking because I know a lot of, you know, businesses and, you know, have those. So, yeah, John would probably I mean, I think Brian's pretty in tune with the electric department still. Um, but John
would probably know more about that. Okay. Troy, do you see a need for it? Are you questioning why we have it? I'm questioning why we have it, I guess. Um, I mean, is it something that the city really needs to be able to supply
where it does get to commute or we can take it off the or we Yeah, we could we is it something we could take off of our budget and you know, I don't have the one in front of city hall that we can and it depends on where the market goes. I mean, yeah, true. Right now, it's not favorable.
Fizzling a bit, but yeah. Uh, it could very well come back. True. Yeah. This this item has been pushed out like year after year after year. Um you know so it's 27 time we get to 27 probably
that can down the road until you know until the the can you know isn't needed or you know all of a sudden it gets electrified and then then we'll do it. So any other questions on the utility infrastructure part? I guess one silly
question and maybe not a silly question, but um as I'm the representative for the arts and culture commission, uh I know the work being done for the water towers. Is that something, you know, we could bring up to the art uh committee,
you know, as an opportunity to, you know, could we do a big snowman on one of the water towers or something like that? Snowman face or something like that? I don't know. Well, it's already on tower park anyways. The snowman is on there anyways. Yeah. Could the water tower look like a snowman? Yeah. Could we, you know, the new one? Could
we make it, you know, I'm just Ron's like, are there new designs for water towers that we could take advantage of that I'm just I have I have not seen water towers shaped like snowman things. Um has a teapot.
Yeah, there's a teapot that smokes. Nogan. He's using your lifeline. Right. For the for the right money, anything is possible. Yeah. I mean, something whether you're talking about or just put a spot on our snowman. We
already got [Music] or extra certainly something that other communities have done, but there is a cost additional cost to that. Okay. Substantial. The cost estimates that we have now do not include aesthetic treatment. Okay, fair enough.
Oh, he's good. Yep. Any other questions? I'm done. And then our next section, which is a very big section, is it's equipment. Um so you'll see see it has um uh the
police interceptor uh replacement schedule. Um there's eight vehicles that get rotated every um six years. Um and then you have um everything else for every other department that's in the
city from fire to um parks, streets, um forestry, um you name it. So it covers all of the different components. Uh one of the bigger ticket items that's coming up in 2030 um is the ladder truck um in
the fire department. uh because that one carries a um a revised estimate of uh $2 million. Um and I'll kind of pause right there and just allow our fire chief to kind of talk about the ladder truck a little
bit. Um so everybody on council is kind of aware um of the need. Yeah. Okay. Um, I think what I'd like to do first is do a quick brief description of our current ladder truck and understanding what it is as I compare it
to the cost of a a new one in today's dollars and what it looks like. So, our current ladder truck um is a platform aerial device. So, it has the bucket on the back which holds people and it has waterways on each side to flow water. It
can go up and extend out 100 feet and it can rotate 360 degrees. So, um it was built in originally in 1982. Um it was u manufactured by Sutton Corporation and I
believe we purchased it through Custom Fire. Um in 2001 we refurbished it because the chassis at that time um needed to be upgraded because we
actually had firefighter seats that were outside of the cab. So like we had three people inside and two people that sat outside in the back. So, it was updated in 2001 where we basically took the ladder off of the current
chassis and put it on a new HME chassis. And that cost was about was $355,000 to do that refurb. So, here we are basically 43 years later and we have, you know, a a ladder device
that's still functional and and works and moves, but uh we have uh and we get it tested. We have we test all of our equipment. Um but obviously there are numerous safety concerns obviously from
age. Um some of the things we did back then that we no longer do now is climbing the the ladder. Um, we used to climb that ladder all the time, 100 ft up and 100 ft down. But, right, um, currently new newer ladders
um, have 18in minimum side rails to protect the firefighter to keep them from going over. Our side rails are basically 2-in handles on the side. So, things have changed a little bit over the years. um setup time for our current ladder is
about five to seven minutes and it takes three to four people where a new ladder um can be done by one person and with the automation it's done in less than a minute. So that's a big uh factor as well um and helping out. The big
cost of this is it it over the last few years as as we've invested into and talked about, you know, fire equipment and the cost of it. Um it it's a lot and it continues to go up and I I just keep getting surprised um
more and more. Um, but currently I've had uh multiple conversations across different manufacturers looking at at options and um currently $1.9 to $2 million for a truck that is
is more of a ladder device that doesn't have a bucket on the back where a platform. So, if we were to replace our current ladder as is, we're talking 2.5 million as in right right
now. Not in 2030. Each year, it's going to go up five and a half five to five a.5%. So, the 2 million for the a ladder truck, $100,000 each year. Um 2.5 million, you
know, $125,000 each year going up. And that's that's a big factor as well. Um, so as I've looked through our equipment and replacement as well, and it may not be a
huge thing, but like Dan had had brought up in in the beginning, we've always tried to look at our equipment and see if we can push it down the road a little bit more on the smaller things, and we certainly have done that. And as I look at some of our squads that we have, our
squad 5'11 and our squad 512, one that's up in 26 and one that's up in 27, I can honestly say they're in decent condition at this point. We don't have a lot of maintenance going into them. We can push them down um another year or two
potentially. There is some savings in to that obviously. I don't know how that really all works out. I haven't sat down with Dan to work on that, but I do know that by doing that and potentially setting up
um pushing it the the purchase of a ladder truck earlier in 2028 is going to save minimally $300,000 in today's dollars because in January
2026, it's going to go up on average they go up 5 to 5 and a half%. % each year. Now, the the other benefit of for the past few years, we've worked with a manufacturer that did the our
last um engine and they do not once we lock in, we don't have to pay until we're done. It was a little different with our engine because we had to buy a chassis separately, but with this ladder, it basically would be when it's done and then we have to pay. And during
that time frame, there would be no search charges where there are some manufacturers out there that also have search charges built into it. So even if you lock in your price, if there's an additional search charge, they would do that. I had verbal confirmation today
from the manufacturer that tell them there would be no search charges, which is uh a big deal. Um, and obviously changes over the years in the community versus 1982 when we got the ladder truck to now, you know, um, obviously there's
been growth in the community to some extent and the the needs as we've increased our our buildings and our building sizes, you know, our apartment buildings as well. So, you kind of heard
me say platform and ladder. So, what I'm talking about is I'm looking around to see that any firefighters behind me and Ron's probably even going, "What are you doing?" But $2.5 million versus
getting a couple calls here. $2.5 million versus $2 million is a lot of money, and I understand that. And I know with purchasing a ladder that doesn't necessarily have a bucket on the end of it. It's still going to have a waterway.
It's still going to be 100 ft. still going to allow us to do the things that um I think are provide the rescues, provide firefighting uh you know up at higher levels,
ventilation, the water flow and still provide a value to the community. I don't feel it as losing out. Um and that's my feeling on it just because of the cost. Plus, I can
honestly say that um yeah, that's I've had some thought about it and talked with other chiefs and seen what other departments have have done in the past. So, I'll kind of leave it at that. If you have any more questions, I do
have advantages, disadvantages, stuff like that, but I don't know. I think you may have other questions for me. No, that's why you are the fire chief and we are not. So, I mean, we'll trust your judgment on this and I mean the
safety of the firefighters under your care is your first and foremost cons well, one of your first and foremost concerns. So, yeah, I know you did a good job at pricing out the engine. You looked around to quite a few different places and you put a lot of that and it's appreciated by what
I really feel proud. I'm to say that we got a good deal at $800,000 for an engine is unreal because I know there are departments right now that are paying 1.1 to 1.4 for a brand new engine two years later. Yeah, appreciate that.
But I I I do think uh for me the big the the biggest thing that I would like you to think about is the potential savings by moving it up uh a couple years. Yeah. When you're talking percentages, I mean, a percentage of, you know, 5% of
two million versus 5% of, you know, 65 65,000 for unit 512. Yeah, it's a huge deal. So, I mean, if we push that one back and move this one forward, yeah, that absolutely makes sense. I mean, not the same amount of money, but the savings is huge. So,
and you also need to look at it that, you know, obviously it's going to have a useful life of like 35 years, 30 to 35 years versus many of our pieces of equipment, you know, are going to be more in that range of 10, 15 years. So, moving something up that could
potentially save you, you're going to realize that over the years. So, is there any market for the old one or is it just too old? Um, there is a limited market out there. Um there are places that will will buy
it, but um much like our current old engine that will eventually go out there um you know that's a potential I'm seeing out there in the market anywhere from $30 to $40,000 for the old engine.
So, this ladder um because it was refurbed, the chassis is probably valued more than that. But, um it it all depends what's uh saturated in the market at that time. There's a couple different u um
businesses out there that purchases uh the trucks and resell them. Okay. Other questions on equipment items? [Music] No. All normal routine as far as
we're six years now. We're up six years is for the police for the police units. That is correct. Yes. I think didn't that move around a little bit, wasn't it? five and then yeah, when I originally came here it was seven years. Um it got moved down to five and then back up to six was what
was agreed to with uh the police chief at that time and uh city council. So we've got uh about 10 minutes left to the workshop. So kind of just take kind of a reminder where we're at quickly
with the proposed 2026 levy. um that our 2026 levy achieves that 6% levy increase. No utility rate increases uh for 2026. Um again shows the different components. Um if we add HR and EDA we have a total
of levy because they're all leveies. Um comes to 5.84% kind of walks you through and some of these items we'll end up discussing next Tuesday about the penalty transfer um and um some other components. But that's
how we ended up achieving um the 2026. And you can really see that the bigger the biggest driver again is your personnel costs and then it's these levies for the CIP. Some other information what is next Tuesday?
I'm sorry. Our next our next meeting. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The first Tuesday in September. I if I misspoke. Um is isn't that Yeah. Yeah. So not next Tuesday. radio was going to miss a meeting. He said next Tuesday.
Um so right now if we were to look at you know with this 5.8 uh four total levy increase um if you looked at a medium value income home um in 2025 of $33,000. Um, you know, basically there would be
no property tax increase um based upon the preliminary numbers or values that are coming out of Ramsey County. Um, the median value did increase um 2.41% from 303 to 310. So when we put that
into um action with the 5.84 8 for 4% uh total levy increase. The tax bill for a resident um meeting that criteria um would increase um 37 $38
um about 2.8%. Part of the reason for that um even though levy's going up is kind of wanted to show I mean this was one of our council members um had talked about fiscal disparities. So if you look over the past 10 years, here's where the
levies are in in the orange color and then in the blue is what the fiscal disparities um has that we have received. So in other words, we can levy $8.4 million. We're getting fiscal disparities of $1.7 million. So that
means our taxpayers are paying for $6.7 million. They're not paying the full 8.4. 4 uh million because we are in the fiscal disparities world, we're a winner. Um and to answer the council member's question, fiscal disparities um
has been if you look consistently across the 10 years, it's right around about a 20%. Um so for every dollar that we raise and levy, we've been pretty close to getting 20 cents back in fiscal disparities. I do have sleepless nights since the
time that I've been here that um I'm responsible for increasing the levy um over time. Um but if we So what I did was part of what this graph is showing is the orange line here is the levy for
the city HR and EDA and the blue is for our streets, parks and facilities. Again, it's that component that I've been talking about if you want to pay for that that capital improvement plan that you have to do the levies. So, when I look at this, I have a little bit more
comfort that if I look at the pay 24 versus the pay 26, so in two years, um, our levy for city H and EDA has only gone up $60,000. where the increase has been is over a million dollars has been levied for
streets, parks, facilities. Um, and that's what the trend is again been trying to emphasize is going to be continuing if you want that CIP plan um to be able to
afford that. Um, again, and then and I'm going to show one more graph of this. These are some of the items that we'll be talking that were kind of outstanding when we kind of looked at and that's do we add that $30,000 for the le for the parks. Um the community center is going
to require a transfer of approximately $85,000 for that operation um in its current state. And then um there was discussion on whether to continue to do that $131,000 um transfer um from the the penalty from
the electric to the general fund or to levy those dollars. And those will be some things that we'll pick up um the first meeting in September. Um and and part of as we set that maximum levy. One final slide that I wanted wanted to to
show um is that as we compare ourselves to other cities in Ramsey County um and I and I know that um a lot of the taxpayers have seen um increases in their property taxes and I think we all
know the reasons why now it's really being driven by that infrastructural needs. Um, but here's a look at the cities from 2020 to 2025. Um, and as we look at this graph, here's where the levies have increased. So,
over the past five years, um, on an average, we've um, increased our levy 8.3%, we're actually in the middle of the cities in Ramsey County. Um the one that has the highest percentage is White
Bear Lake at 20.6. A lot of that has to do with um building a brand new public safety facility and some other infrastructural needs. And then you see the low end is Falcon Heights at a 6%. But overall of those five years, um it's
averaged 7.5% for these these cities in in um Ramsey County. So when you look at it from that standpoint, we're not really out of line. You remember last year and I've mentioned it a number of times, our property tax rate is the second highest in Ramsey County only
behind um you know for a city that's fully within Ramsey County behind St. Paul. Our levy is kind of in line but our rate goes up a little bit higher. Part of that again is we don't have that commercial base. We have a residential
base. Um and so when you convert a market value for a resident versus commercial, it has a lower net tax capacity um rate that's set by a state statute which results in a lower base in which you you know um so your levy is
your numerator. Your net tax capacity or market value converted over is your denominator. When you do it, your rate just is higher than the other ones. But from a levy standpoint, we have been um relatively in line with what the other cities in um Ramsey County um have been
facing too. Any final questions? Give you three minutes back. Four minutes. We will continue at our next uh city council meeting and try to set that maximum tax levy. Sounds good.
Nothing else. Can I get a call for? So moved. So moved. Council member Schwar. Second. Second. Council member Woods. All those in favor say I. I. Give us five minutes and we'll be back. Part: 2
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Amen. Thank you very much. Roll call, please.
Council member Nordby here. Council member Woods here. Council member McKenzie here. Council member Schwar here. Mayor Mongi here. Thank you very much. Can a motion to adopt agenda, please? So moved. So moved. Council member Schwar second. Second. Council member Norby. All those in favor say I.
I. I. Thank you. All right. Thank you, mayor. Uh consent agenda. Item A, July 15th workshop and city council meeting minutes. Item B, August 4th, 2025 emergency city council meeting minutes. Item C, general claims of
$5,39,1656. Item D, H claims of $14,78061. Item E, special event permit for the fall Roundup parade. Item F, special event permit for the Legion Cornfeed. Item G, building permit report for July of 2025.
Item H, resolution accepting donations for July of 2025. Item I, approve proposed ordinance amending chapter 112, Vingoan charitable gambling. Item J, approve North St. Paul Firefighters Relief Association opting to join the statewide volunteer
firefighter plan. And item K, approve the 2544 19th Avenue drainage and utility easement. Thank you. Anybody like to pull anything at this time? If not, can I get a motion to adopt? So moved. So moved. Council member Norby.
Second. Second. Council member Woods. All those in favor say I. I. Thank you very much. 636 open to the public. John Schmall. Good evening. And I would ask that you
watch your uh uh switch on your mic. The other John uh doesn't have his hearing aids tonight. No. Anyway, um this is the a excerpt uh transcript
from the June 17th meeting uh the council meeting uh started at 48 minutes and 43 seconds u and the city manager was speaking so uh society right now um we didn't
unfortunately have a cyber security incident here in the last couple of days. It's unbelievable how many fishing scams there are out there now. And that um and they're not just general stuff. I mean, they're getting specific about you
knowing, mentioning things. I got one last week. You know, Jenny and I are working on updating the personnel policy. It said the policy update, but uh it said from the HR department. So, I mean, it was obvious, but I mean they're
knowing things that you currently are doing and involved in, which makes it easy to be able to click on something and that it was one of our newer officers and unfortunately we're going through the process that you needs to be reported to the state within 3 days. Um, just going through the whole process
finding out uh no locking down the computers and making sure that we prevent any fure problems. This was the only notification until the emergency meeting in August on August
4th. Uh there was a data breach. It's was said on June 17th. So, and the next thing that I ran into, I'm uh getting up in the morning. I'm listening to NPR on Wednesday, August 6th, and there was something said North
St. Paul. So, whoa, wake up. and uh on whatever the the people who were talking or who they were uh uh a spokesperson said the problem started when an officer opened an email about a week ago. Now I
don't have a printed transcript of that but that's what my brain remembers. So did we have two data breaches? Did we have it? Is there going to be any information in the little newspaper that we get u every week that we sign up for?
Sounds a little strange to me. Thank you. Thanks. All right, Dan. Bronc Bron, he left because we didn't want to talk. All right. He doesn't have to
Carrie Ble. Welcome. I'm Carrie Ble. I live at 2887 Lake Boulevard in North St. Paul. First of all, I want to thank city staff for responding to my questions, which sometimes are really simple and I just
can't figure it out, or my concerns. They were always patient with me and very professional, and I really appreciate that. I want to thank Dan Winnick, uh, our finance guy, for presenting all sides of the city's financial condition, the good, bad, the otherwise. I really appreciate hearing
all sides of those things. And I want to thank the council members, like each of you. seriously for meeting the challenges that the city faces with openness, for seeking facts, for being attentive to wise counsel, for listening to all the citizens, not just the
loudest ones. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. All right, that's it for open to the public. All right, move on to city business action items and recommendations. Uh, first item up is the home occupation
zoning ordinance text amendment. And where is Ken? Ken's right here. There he is. Something in the audience. Community development director. Thank you, Ken. Rollins. Good evening, mayor, members of the council. Before you this evening is a
proposed zoning ordinance text amendment related to home occupations in North St. Paul. Those are homebased businesses in another term. We are as a staff uh in conjunction with the planning commission recommending
uh several changes to the ordinance that will clarify the types of home occupations or activities the city will allow uh for a property owner to conduct from their residential property. the
standards and operating uh conditions for having a home home occupation. And there included in the ordinance are 14 types of uses or activities the city will not allow as a home occupation.
I'll walk through some of the highlights for you as we get into it. Uh, this started as a request to the plane commission back in 2023 and I picked up on it reading uh, some of the materials when I was hired back in April and May.
Discussed it first with the plane commission on June 20 June 5th of 2025. They were supportive of proceeding with updating the ordinance and had some suggestions for the ordinance. I brought that back to them on July 9th, a updated
ordinance with some changes uh that they were recommending and looking for in the ordinance and they had a couple more changes at that meeting and uh we had the and that was with the public hearing I should say at that time
and at that mo at that time they recommended approval with a motion uh to the city council to approve the changes that you'll see this evening. So, home occupations are mentioned in three different sections of the zoning
ordinance. And the cleanest way, in my opinion, to make sure the newest and best language are is and are will be incorporated in the ordinance is to repeal and replace all three of those sections rather do than doing a bunch of
strikeouts and underlines and all that. uh which is a way to do it. So that's part one. Second part is the actual ordinance itself. The existing ordinance for home occupations has two
levels of home home occupations, level ones and level twos. The level ones required uh some involvement with the city uh with a lease of staff review and the current level two require would require
a city council approval. The proposed ordinance now has three levels of home occupations. The new level ones are those intended for professionals working from home such as an accountant or doing
computer repair or answering telephones as a call center where they don't have a home or they don't have customers visiting, they don't have deliveries visiting. If you drove by that house, you would never know someone is working there. No impact on the neighbors. We're
adding that into the code because the current code doesn't say that that is really a permitted thing in North St. Paul. I don't think anybody can object to that, but to be clear, we wanted to add that into the code to make it perfectly clear that if you're doing
those kind of activities, great. Don't need any city approval. Go ahead and do it. Because of adding that new level one, the former level ones are now become what we're calling level twos. And those are activities and things that might
have an impact on a neighbor. Maybe there's a couple of deliveries, maybe they want to put out a sign or something, but not major impacts. And those in the ordinance can be approved by city staff. The former level twos, which are the
ones that could have the most impact on neighbors, are now level three. The uses have not really changed in level twos and threes. they're just how they're labeled is a little bit different
as part of the amendment. Then we uh we again staff and plane commission working together uh made some changes to again clarify what can be done, what cannot be done, what are some of the rules of the road for home occupations.
So, we're the ordinance adds language to level ones stating they are subject to all performance standards in the code. Uh, we've added language in in the code about an appeal process if a homeowner or home occupation business owner
doesn't like maybe a staff interpretation of the code. We've removed pet grooming and pet care services from the prohibited list because they are already listed in our MU1 and MU2 zoning districts.
We're adding some standards in the general provisions about if you want to grow food outside, retail sales, and permitted hours of operations for all home occupations. And then there are several uses and
activities that are now listed in the proposed ordinance that will be prohibited and I'll get into those. So the ordinance itself again the new uh new level ones are those again with
little or no impact on neighbors. The level twos will be those that were the level one types of businesses and then the level threes are the ones that again could have most impact.
Level twos, for example, in the ordinance are uh dress makers and tailor, a barber shop or a beauty shop, uh professional offices where with legal, accounting or insurance. And these again where you
have customers coming to the home. uh tutoring, musical, dance voice instructors and cottage food producers which would be subject to the registration uh required by the Minnesota Department of Agriculture. Again,
limited or hopefully small with minimal impact on neighbors. Level three home occupations in the ordinance are those that were level two before and these will require city council approval of an interim use permit.
Again, in both of these sections, these are examples that we say may include but are not strictly limited to. And then for level three, we say small engine repair, small equipment repair, building trades, and heating, plumbing, electrical or air
conditioning services. And those are that last one's intended for the contractor that brings home their truck or their van. And maybe they have a home office, maybe they don't, but they have that vehicle at their home, maybe they have tools and that kind of thing.
So some of the general provisions that all home occupations will be subject to in this ordinance uh that they for example they shall not result in incompatibility or disturbance to the surrounding residential uses.
They must be clearly incidental and secondary to the residential use of the property, not change the residential character of the property, and not occupy more than 25% of the gross floor area. Uh there shall be no exterior
alterations to the structure and no permanent alterations that are not customarily found in a residence. The uh operator shall not use equipment in the home occupation that will create electrical interference for surrounding
properties. And there shall be no exterior storage visible from the public street of equipment, products or materials. Again, most we're hoping most activities will be in a garage or in the home home itself.
The hours of operation we're proposing will be from 8:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. Uh, and then again, we there's 14 items that are listed are not allowed. I'll not read all of them, but here's some of the highlights. motor vehicle body repair and painting, motor vehicle
sales, uh the practice of medical, dental, or chiropractic. Uh treatments are those uh businesses not allowed to be a veterinarian,
veterinarian in your home. Uh tattoo and body art businesses would not be allowed. All cannabis related businesses are not allowed. can't run a restaurant from your home and you can't run a payday agent payday loan agency or a
currency exchange from the home. Again, we're trying to cover all the bases or all the potentials where somebody might say, "Well, it's not in the code. I must be allowed to do it." Well, we're trying to cover as many of those as possible. We know that there will be something that
comes up that we haven't thought of, but we'll deal with that if we need to. We're also proposing that all existing non-conforming home occupations are allowed to law lawfully allow allowed to exist and
uh may continue as a non-conforming use. clarify that in the code. And then the code also goes on to say that the city can inspect properties with the home occupation. violations will be handled as a
violation of the zoning code and all the regulations or excuse me all home occupations shall comply with the provisions of this section and all applicable local state and federal laws as well as section
98918 about nuisances that affect the peace and safety. That is a very hopefully clear and high level summary of the proposed ordinance. And with that, I will stop and take questions.
Okay. Number one, um, you've got the hours of 8 to 9:00 p.m. If you have a service of a lawnmower service that's working out of his garage, what are you going to do with uh residents that are working at night sleeping during the
day? Uh, Mr. Mayor, members of the council, if if first of all, I think we'd be reacting on a complaint basis, right? Uh, if they can if they're repairing equipment in a garage or in a home and
they're not seen and not heard, then hopefully we right. If we get a complaint, then we have to deal with it. But if if no one knows, then Right. That's great. That's why I'm just worried because I used to work overnights or work overnight sleep during the day
and you don't get that good sleep if you got a lot of noise. So, I'm just making sure that everyone's aware that if they do have an operation like this that there could be noise and they're going to then we're deal with it. And there is some good language and I
want to commend Ken. um he brought forth great um uh discussion from the planning community and there there are some languages about um uh undue um uno effects about your neighbors and things like that that I believe um would
potentially cover us in those situations. Anything else? always appreciate the good work the planning commission does. Those guys are really on top of it. They're a good group. Yes, they are. And and I guess to be clear, Mr. Mayor, I didn't I don't know
if I actually gave the recommendation. So, it's staff's recommendation based on the ordinance and the plane commission work that the council adopt the ordinance included in your packet. Uh it's I don't know the exact number and that ordinance approves the zoning
ordinance text amendment to repeal and replace the existing city code language related to home occupations in North St. Paul. Okay. Any questions? Can I get a motion? So moved. So moved. Council member Schwear. Second.
Second. Council member Norby. All those in favor say I. I. I. Thank you. All right. Next item up on city business. Next item up on the city business action items and recommendation is council direction on the community multicultural
outreach center feasibility study and grant funding. This was in the last council meeting but it was decided to table it since we didn't have full council at that time. So I will start it over again. Um so the background on this was uh at the city council workshop on
June 17th 2025. EAPC, the architect and engineering firm um that we hired to do a feasibility study, presented the report and uh then the inter report for the community multicultural outreach center feasibility study contained an
estimated cost of remedial work in excess of $3 million more than the grant funding awarded to the city. Uh since that time, I've received comments from council members in the public on whether the city uh should continue with the feasibility study and potential
acceptance of the grants. Based on this feedback and current financial needs of the city, uh we believe it's prudent to seek formal approval by the city council regarding continuence of the feasibility study and potential acceptance of opportunity to modify the grants.
So, in the paperwork here, there's a recommendation for the approval of the resolution, which I'll read in just a minute. And there's also the attachment of the presentation that EAPC had come to council and presented. So the resolution in front of you is uh
to discontinue the community multicultural outreach center feasibility study and decline current federal and state funding uh grant funding. So I'll read that out because there's a little more to it. Uh whereas a city council workshop held on June
17th, 2025, EAPC architects and engineering presented an interim report for the community multicultural outreach center feasibility study. Whereas in report identified the estimated remedial cost would exceed the federal state and grant funding awarded to the city by
more than $3 million. Whereas following the presentation, members of the city council and the public have expressed concerns regarding whether the city should proceed with the feasibility study and accept the associated grant funding. Whereas in light of this feedback and considering the city's current and
future financial needs and priorities, it's in the city's could be in the city's best interest to discontin the feasibility study and decline the federal and state grant uh funding as awarded. Now, now there be resolved that the city
council and the city of North St. Paul as follows. The contract with EAPC architect and engineering and engineers for the community multicultural outreach center feasibility study should be shall be terminated pursuant to the contract. The city shall decline both federal and
state grant funds and award as awarded for the current project. Uh, city manager role is authorized and directed to take all necessary steps to carry out termination of the contract and the cancellation of grant funds including notification to all relevant agencies
and to explore the reallocation of the grant funds. This resolution so should take effect immediately upon adoption. Um, that is how the resolution reads. Um, I guess I could add more information
on that. So I did talk to the uh House Capital Investment Committee chair and they said that uh what can be done is if you reject the the grant then you can then turn around um and as the next uh request to request it towards a
reallocation of a different project. So, we're leaving that open and that would be council to decide whether or not it's a road reconstruction project or a water tower or what have you. Um, to be able to use that money towards a different project. Um, so that would be the
direction and that was the resolution that I read. So, looking for a motion. Could you expand a little bit about what the next steps or how the next steps look like if this resolution passes? Sure. So, what we would do is um we've
already made contact with a local legislature that said that they would back um cancelling that and then reallocating it towards another project. So, we would work with that uh legislature to get that paperwork in place for when the new legislative
session comes into um into play. Um but and with that we would be looking at the what we would have to take care of at the community center as well which we would uh talk to the library about their current lease. We have um some IT
equipment in there that would need to be um moved to across the street to the public works building and we would need to address the uh we have a generator there. That generator was placed there when it was a community center. So it runs both the community center and the public works building at the same time.
So we would have to move that across the street and then eventually down the road if it was to be demoed then we would look into that as well. Um but in the meantime we would have to have a meeting to find out um gather ideas, bring it back to a council, maybe a workshop um
and you guys would have to discuss potential um ways you could reallocate the funds for whatever you felt. [Music] Does that answer your question? And and that potential reallocation would have to go before um uh Leon Lily,
correct? And get his endorsement and he has said that he would endorse that. Um but it would have to go back to the uh House Capital Investment Committee. Yes. For them to decide. And this is not a guarantee, I might add. Um so when you turn that back um and ask
for that reallocation, uh they don't have to. But in talking to the chair, she did say that this was a cash bond as opposed or a cash grant as opposed to a bonding grant, which is much easier to work with and move around. So, um, we
had two people that from there that were already seem to back us on that decision if that to help us move it towards something else, but there's no guarantee. And the the um alternative project has to be um one single project and it has to be within the city. Correct.
Correct. And it has to be solely for the city. Uh it's not meant to do like a joint project with a neighboring city or another agency of sorts. So yes, I guess to just to be clear, a yay is that you want to stop the study and
return the money and a nay is against doing that and ask for reallocation. I guess to add that too. Yeah. Any questions? I guess I'll just more of a statement. Um I will say from the get-go that I've
been very um I've, you know, moving here, my kids went to the community center. I've been a big proponent of the community center. Um, having seen the EAPC study and basically the hole that it would put us
put the city in, you know, having us have to pay that $3 million on top of, you know, where the grant is a big hole to put the city in and it's a big ask of current and future generations of North St. Paul residents to uh to comply with.
So, um, yeah, I guess I will I would vote yay on this. Sorry. Yeah. One other qu quick question. Um, in the reallocation process, are you foreseeing meetings open to the public to get their feedback on what they would potentially like this
to be reallocated to? That would be council's option if you wanted to welcome that. And I also um have lived there a long time. I did have a membership at the old at the community center back in the n
late 90s early 2000s. It was a fun experience. But what happens when you possibly lose a job or or um your income drops off? What's the first thing you do is you cut out your entertainment.
And but the amount of money that the city would have to pay to ren renovate this building is not probably in the best interest of our community right now because we've
got other priorities and I think I think in the best it would be a name for me. What? Nay is said, right? Yay is voting for it. Yeah. Oh, for to stop this.
Oh, yay. Okay. Yeah. Yay. Anything else? Okay. Can I ask for a motion then, please? So moved. So moved. Council member Woods. Second. Second. Council member McKenzie.
All those in favor say. Yay. All those against? Nay. Thank you. All right. Reports from city manager and departments um from our staff meeting today. We uh
uh we discussed we have a blood drive coming up on September 4th. Um that's going to be open to the public and for our city staff who want to partake. Um, I'll briefly touch on the cyber incident
that we had. We are still in the process of I apologize. We're still in the process of uh dealing with uh the insurance company and the uh firm law firm and um the IT forensic team that uh
went in and found these. Um, we know that they were able to breach, uh, 23 emails. So, uh, it was very minimal. Um, we're looking to see what information was in those emails to see if we have to send out, uh, letters to those people if
it was private information. So, um, could have been much worse. They caught it fast. Um, and we got a pretty good handle on it right now. Just one event, correct? One event, correct? and did not spread from here and did not come from St. Paul
which seemed to be the question. No. Um so uh electric was away at did some team training. They also been working on um the road reconstruction and uh burying uh the high voltage lines up there and
secondaries. Uh community development is been working with um the plans for cow school project for their addition next year. Um, and also working on some updates for finalizing subdivision updates and
looking into an ordinance for ebikes and scooters that we see buzzing around town. Uh, communications. Uh, we had to reschedule a couple of events. Well, actually, one event, the we the
car showed down early due to the rain. And then Saturday we had a movie night that was also cancelled due to the rain, but it's been rescheduled for next Thursday. Um, we also have a project coming up for a new uh giveback food shelf event which
uh looking for volunteers to go down there on Saturday, September 27th from 10 to 12 to help uh clean up sites down there and uh we'll have some pizza for you. Uh HR is working with uh finance. They've been working on we have new
software coming in for the paycom system uh which we're looking forward to. It looks like it's be a pretty good step up from what we have now. So um that's in the process going probably take a little while yet. Uh
PTE uh they do have coming up on November 2nd a pancake breakfast at the VFW for the police foundation fundraiser. Um all the new new recruits are doing well. They uh we have a full uh
department again now thankfully and uh been a while since we had that. So that's really good. Chief is happy. Um public works has been busy with the road reconstruction project working with anything that comes up with that. Um
their summer help is already finishing up for the year. Um, and they're doing some work back on Casey Lake. They removed a couple of old ball fields that were not used very often at all. So, um, they have been taken out. Uh, fire has their annual
hose testing today for 10,000 ft of hose. That takes a while. Um, got the new engine back. Well, we had it delivered and then we found just a few things that needed uh some correcting on it and that was sent there. They corrected it and we
now have it back. So, that's good. And they do have water rescue training coming up uh tomorrow down at Silver Lake. Might get loud. Ramsey County might bring their airboat. So, yeah. Uh that's all I got.
Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. All right. Reports from commission council committees. I don't have anything on my end. Parks and Recck will meet here at 6:30 on the 27th. Thank you very much. Our EDA will meet on the 9th of
September coming up. All right. Thank you. The Arts and Culture Commission had our meeting last week, I believe. Uh beginning. Yeah, I think be last week. Uh question mark. Um, but I will say
that uh one of our projects, the take your own snowy home project, uh we were getting or we had sold those. They're still for sale at the uh at city hall here as well as you could pick them up on um the national night out. So, a lot
of people did that. Also, the electrical box at Veterans Park is now wrapped. So, I encourage everybody to head over there and take a look at it. It looks really It looks awesome. So, thank you Um the planning commission um we voted
on the topic of their last discussion today. So I appreciate that. One of the new discussions for the planning commission is changing to some um uh co code violations. I believe there's going to be an open house coming up soon or
not an open to the public meeting for that soon and then it will be brought before the council. Council member, excuse me. Were you referring to some of the code changes about encroachments and Yes. Yes. That's another ordinance we're
working on. For example, the code is silent about if someone wants to add a handicap accessible ramp in the front of their home. Should that be allowed, should it not be allowed? And there's several things like that. We're rolling into one big ordinance and hopefully we'll have that
ready for you in September. Great. So, great things to look forward to from the planning commission. Great. I'd like to add one thing. Uh, our student build house is now complete. So, um, I'll be contacting the college and they'll be setting up an open house for out there and then the kids will come
back there and I should say the young adults come back there and, uh, they look at their handiwork and, uh, they're pretty proud of that. So, they they usually do a really good job. So, looking forward to that. That'll be we'll post that soon. Great. Any general business?
Yeah. Um, I had the pleasure to attend the police swearin, which was pretty exciting. Um, Ray did a nice job. Nice event. Uh, fire department, thank you for letting us host inside there. Not us, I should say, the police department, excuse me. Um, we have a great team of
people on. It's I'm pretty excited for what's in our future and how well staffed we are. Um, over the past couple weeks, we've had some pretty decent storms. Um, I got to thank the public works department for getting out there
and cleaning up these places pretty quickly. I know there was a tree on the power line. So, thanks. Can't thank John. He's not here, but uh he got back there and took it down from um my house. So, thank you for all of your guys' hard
work in regards to that. I also attended the uh police swearing in. It was quite an event. Nice to see all our young officers get the badges put on them and I'm glad that we're at a full staff. Also,
thank you. I'll just take the opportunity to thank uh Chief Melinger and his team for letting me ride along on National Night Out. So, thank you. That was fun. Um, one quick thing. I was talking to a
resident the other day and they brought up a question um and then I wasn't able to quickly find the answer or easily find the answer. So, I'm going to ask the city and the city staff to possibly put this out. Um the question came upon the
um the PAST um lawsuit that was settled recently and they were wondering if any areas of North St. Paul were included in that and if we got any part of that settlement. So, if um we could find out that information and possibly put that out where the residents could easily
find, I'd greatly appreciate it. Absolutely. Great. Myself, I was also at the swearing in. It was a very um powerful ceremony. It was uh it was a it was a great group and it was very very meaningful for all of
us. Um also, I was going to mention my uh wife sold a house in North St. Paul. she's a realer and um the the couple the young lady called in to get her utility switched and everything done and she said what a nice experience she had and how friendly they were. So that was a
comment uh she got back from that. So that was very nice as well because I know that uh I've been talking to a few and we of course we get some some hotads that call into the city there. There's a couple where you got pictures up in there where you know they they've been
not too too nice. So, just to be able to hear from from Carrie and as well as this one, you know, the hard work that our staff does and and uh and how important it is that we treat each other well because, you know, everybody tries and especially when it comes to code
enforcement, different rules, regulations, they don't make them. The people that sit up here make them. They're the ones that have to go enforce them. So, that's where, you know, I was talking to one and I said, "Yeah, well, you know, that's the thing. it's it's us. Then we have to decide, you know, we're the ones that pass this. And
there's some things that that need to be changed or there's things that don't make sense or there's things like that. It's it's not the people out there doing the info code enforcement. It's the it's the city as well as the as the council and the mayor. So, just wanted to make sure people have grace for everybody
that's out there working hard. That's it. If nothing else, ask for a German. So moved. So moved. Council member Woods. Second. Second. Council member Schwear. All those in favor say I. I. I. Thank you very much. Uh September 2nd is
our next meeting. Enjoy the rest of the summer. Thank you. Appreciate you.