--------- like that. Call the meeting to order for the workshop. Let me go to roll call, please. >> Council member Nordby, >> here. >> Council member Woods, >> here. >> Council member McKenzie, >> here. Council member Schwear is absent. Mayor Mongi
>> here. Thank you very much. May I get a motion to adopt the agenda, please? >> So move. Council member McKenzie. >> Second. >> Second. Council member Woods. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Thank you. >> Be late a little bit. >> Topics to you, sir.
>> Thank you, mayor. Uh Cassie did say she might be coming in hot. So, uh she should be here though shortly. Uh anyway, first up uh under topics is uh discussion to set the city HR and EDA final levies. We have finance director
Dan Wick here to discuss. Mayor, city council members. Uh tonight we're going to um kind of look at the 2026 budget. I know you've looked at it many times, so a lot of this material is is uh repetitive. Um and kind of get prepared to to make our final decision
on the levy. Um so any questions that you have please any time um you can interrupt the the presentation and and ask your questions. Um what we're you in a little while when we're in this city council meeting we have to hold the truth and taxation um meeting and a lot
of this material will be repetitive. Um but that's for the public and it gives the public an opportunity to make any comments on the proposed taxes um that are coming up for 2026. Uh I'm I'm trying to get a feel if we're
still comfortable where we're at. Um because in our next city council meeting on December 16th, I'll have to have all the resolutions prepared and um the final budgets if there's any changes um that you desire um to have those ready to be um you know approved by city
council so we can get them off and certify them to Ramsey County for 2026. So, as we start into the presentation, um going to kind of look at the 26 uh general fund budget. Uh we do have some changes in the 26 to 2035 CIP. So, I'll
kind of go over those where we're sitting with the proposed levy and then um what that looks like from a property tax impact and then an overall kind of a discussion um that you may have on that. So, as we've seen our from our budget
for our general fund budget, um on a revenue side to it, we have a heavy dependency on property taxes. That's the orange um slice there, uh which you're seeing almost, you know, 57 12% um reliance on property taxes. And then our
our next biggest component is that intergovernmental of 21% which is um largely made up of 1.6 6 million of it is largely made up of local government aid. So we have a huge dependency um from our revenue standpoint of you know
88% um on both property taxes and intergovernmental revenue which is coming from the state of Minnesota. Um in our expenditure categories uh when we look at our general fund obviously the biggest component to it is our
personnel costs which are 69%. Um and so that's really looking at our FTE um or our full-time equivalents that we have uh in our budget which it has not changed from 25 to 26.
And you can see kind of a breakout by department um of overall um expenditures. And you can see that uh you know the the two on the bottom, our our fire and code enforcement and our police, our public safety um make up um about 63%
of our overall budget for the general fund, which is is customary that you're going to see in in most municipalities. Um what you see after that is I think the biggest next the next biggest one is the street maintenance was which is at
about a little over 12% We do have some CIP changes. Again, the CIP is an is, you know, is a a living document that that changes over time. Um, there were kind of a flip-flop. Uh, the first two items in the equipment. Uh there was a a flip-flop that uh was
recommended by uh public works and that's to take the there was a Bobcat, it's equipment number 2343 Bobcat 5600 tool cat, move it from 2026 to 2029 and then move up there's a skid steer move
it from 2029 to 2026. Um also uh earlier this year um we had uh a little bit changes in the estimates that we had for the 2026 pavement rehabilitation project which is in design right now that um so I'm
reflecting what those changes were that we had from the water the wastewater and the surface water. Um and you can see the water went up but yet the wastewater went uh significantly down from where it was estimated at and the surface water went up a little bit. So we have those
estimates um within our um CIP now which then are incorporated in all of these changes are then incorporated into all of the budgets that were attached. Um the parks had a very good discussion at uh the last park meeting where they made
a number of changes um within um their park plan. Um I do have to say that they have been uh very good uh this past year in looking at um their plan um in in making some very good changes um to it.
If you remember earlier this year they came in with some requests for 2025 which we've had an update on um earlier this year and then so they went through um their park plan and made some adjustments. Uh the adjustments that
you're seeing is um to be totally removing the North Park update, the Casey Lake Park update, and the Kobe Hills small park add-on um have all been removed from the CIP. And then the um and I misspelled Casey on this next one.
Casey Lake Park Active Playground was moved from 2026 to 2028. And um they have changed the dollar amount because they've incorporated back the the ninja um component um in that project. And
then um they're uh changing uh the playground at Mcnite um field from 2026 to 2027. And then they're adding um $300,000 for a design plans and specification for the Mcnite athletic
complex. So instead of doing anything at the Mcnite field at this time, um a survey was done. Um it's prudent now to get some design um plans and specifications um so it can help them decide what can
be done on the field. what are some of the preliminary costs that may come out of of some of those and then to sequence them uh in a more appropriate way so we don't end up putting something at the Mcnitefield and then turning around and having to rip it back out or dis or
disrupt it as we as we move on to a different phase. Um and they have been looking at phasing in um uh you know improvements to the Mcnite um fields um over time um not all at once. And then
we've discussed um just briefly a few times about the fire uh moving up their ladder truck. Um so I have made that change um from 2030 to 2026. It was at 2 million. Right now um the costs um
totally incomplete are $1,775,000. On the December 16th meeting um our fire chief uh Jason will be here to answer any questions. have the quote seek approval on to that. Um, so city council can ask any questions at that time if
you still not comfortable at that time. Even though you're going to be requested to approve the 26 to 2035 CIP plan, you always have the right to pull something out and have that um to
be brought back to the city council at any other, you know, at a later date. Um so you can approve it and and pull different items out if you so desire and we have done that in the past. The proposed levy right now um combining the city um the HR and the EDA is at 8%
levy increase and when we look at the city the city is made up of five different components. the general fund and then there next three components. Well, actually all four of the next components are all related to infrastructural. Um and there's the street maintenance
component. Um that's part of our plan to be able to fund um streets, uh the preservation plan and so forth. Um parks, um asset preservation, which is really taking care of our facilities and then debt. And usually our debt is being issued um related to uh major
reconstruction projects on our streets and utilities. So when you look at those, you know, our general fund is really only going up, you know, just under $95,000. The really driving part of our levy is really, as we've said over and over again, is the
infrastructural component to it. um want to and then our H and EDA are remaining the same as we've had in uh 2025 and actually they've been the same for um a number of years now. kind of want to give a a phone call that I had
with an individual um uh resident, a taxpayer um who lives on uh Gerald um street who went through the construction project today and um uh she had called up to find out what um the special assessments were going to be. So her
husband and her had just recently gone to the fin their financial planner wanted to make sure that they had the money to be able to cover the special assessments. Um, I jokingly said to her, I said, "Uh, are you ready for it?" And she said, "Should I be sitting down?" And I said, "No, I think you can stand
up for this one." And and I said, "It's zero." And she said, "What?" And I said, "Zero?" Um, and she was very pleased. It was like an early Christmas present. And so that's the difference between if we do special assessments or we levy it on
a regular basis like we're doing. and this discussion and I know the mayor was very heavy on it um in in discussion a couple years ago when we started developing this plan where you were looking at it you know do you all of a sudden wake up one day and you get the
special assessment uh notification that it's going to you're going to be getting an $8 to $9,000 bill and how do I pay for that versus over time and over time is what we're doing in the levy to be able to fund these street projects as we move on. So here's, you know, um and and
I did explain to her, you are paying for it over time and that's why you're seeing a little bit higher of a increase in our levy um you know, year after year. Um didn't make any comments about uh her property tax increase or any of that um component to it. So
you know, one shoe doesn't fit all circumstances. Um you're going to have some that are going to complain a little bit. Um and you may hear some tonight when we go into the truth and taxation about um property taxes, you know, raising. Um and I'm very sympathetic to that. And when we get into the truth and
taxation, I'll share a couple of other conversations that I had with residents that had called um regarding the property taxes. Um but here's a you know, the plan and and I give the city council a lot of credit. It it it's
you have made a decision to not in to coin the phrase that's been used a couple times kick the can down the road and you're addressing the needs that the city has and it's not an easy position to be in as a elected official where you
know you've got to be voted in. um and you made a tough decision to say, "Hey, we need to take care of these needs." And what it's going to mean is that we're going to end up having to raise the the levy. Um but we will see where we're at with the levy is that we're not out of line where other municipalities
around us are doing. Um, so I think we're doing a very prudent approach and the credit goes to the city council um for being bold enough and and to to being able to address the needs of the city not just now but into the future.
Um the other component that you see outside of of uh you know street maintenance park and asset preservation is debt. And this is the debt that we have this. So it'll show what our debt levy was in 2025 and what it is in 2026. And the change is really that earlier
this year we issued um debt um to do the 2025 street and utility project that includes that um Gerald Street. As we compare ourselves to other Ramsey County cities and towns and where they're sitting at this point in time
for levies, you can see it ranges from Falcon Heights at 3.88% all the way up to Ardan Hills at 18.32%. You can see North St. Paul, we're we're below the the the middle component to it at 8%. Um you can see Maplewood's at
8.48, New Brighton's 851, Shore View's 8.82, 82 Mountains View's 9% and as it goes up um you know so overall we're we're not standing out on the far end um
where Ardan Ardan Hills is but nor are we sitting at the at the end of where Falcon Heights is. Um so we're not out of line. Um and you know cities are seeing the same things that we are. Uh rising costs um both on the personnel
side to it and um from an operational side and they're seeing the the needs for infrastructure. Um so um I think you know with our plan that we have um and how we've we've approached it and how city council has approved uh moving
forward um and looking ahead in the 2026 I think we're in line with where we should be. Um in the last workshop that we kind of talked about of you know do we still want to always be somewhere in that 8 to 10% range? You know that kind
of seems to be kind of the average piece to it. There may be years that we'll adjust that downwards if possible. We we certainly will always be trying to do that, but I think we're not out of line where we're sitting right now at that 8%. Um what is that impact that we would
see? Now, you know, when we go into the truth and taxation, I'll talk about what are some of the the market value changes and um some of the different impacts um that that impact the calculation for property taxes. It's not just it's not
just the levy. Levy does play an important part to it. It's not just the market value yet that plays a part to it. But if we take a a look at where our median value residential property for North St. Paul, which went from 303,000
to 310,000, which is about a 2.41% increase. And with that 8% total levy, um, it has a bottom line impact of 6.75%. Now, we're going to see properties that are going to be all over the range
because it depends on a number of different components to it. If we see properties that end up having a uh market value change of 20 30%, they're going to be on the very high end to it. But right now, um this is supplied by
Ramsey County. Um and looking at it that we have just under 3,800 uh parcels and there should be about 373 parcels that will see a decrease or a zero in their property taxes. There should be about 20
in the biggest portion about uh 2100 um parcels will see a 0 to 10% um increase in their property taxes. And then um there'll be about a,000 that'll see 10 to 20% increase and there'll be
174 that'll see 20 to 30% increase. And then there's going to be 64 that's going to see more than a 30% increase in their taxes. And that's total taxes and not just the city of North St. Paul. That's their total bottom line um property tax to it.
So with that, I mean, this is information you've seen also attached was the complete CIP um all of the budgets um that were there um and really kind of opening up for discussion of trying to find out and
again there may be some compelling comments that come tonight from um the truth and taxation meeting that we'll have at city council that may change your mind. So, I'm not asking you to lock it in stone right now, but kind of want to get a sense or feel if we're still at that 8% or you want to give
direction um to the city manager and myself to work with the department heads to try to even cut it down even further um down. Um those are kind of open um for discussion and for look seeking direction from city council. So, with
that, I'll stand for any questions um and kind of seek your direction here. >> Thanks, Dan. Give members a chance to think about it. if you have anything just
>> is it true that Ramsey County has been keeping their levies probably lower than probably what they should have been in the past years and now they've had to possibly raise them up higher because they're falling behind on the uh
the scale of what however they operate their budgets on. >> Well, I I can't answer that with a 100% certainty. Um I would say that there, you know, due to co there was a lot of
aid that was given from the federal government um that helped um Ramsey County um do a lot of programs to help um residents um that now is you know has gone away. That's you know one component to it. They've made some um different
initiatives to help um you know uh you know uh lower income individuals. Housing is a big priority for uh Ramsey County. You know, remember Ramsey County um is is a little bit, you know, is more
of a safety net um than you're going to find a a municipality. So, obviously with the economy and and so forth that there's more needs that are there. Um I think that they were prudent um on some of their budgets u that they kept them I
think in the three 4% range. Um but then in addition to that is that we saw earlier this year with the big beautiful bill um from the federal government that you know there's changes in the SNAP program um which again falls you know
unfortunately it falls to the the the counties um and so to keep those programs going they're going to need to to probably supplement some money. So I think there's a number of different factors I think that played into it. Um, so I'm not going to say 100% that that's
what they were doing. Um, but again, they're faced with the same types of things that even a municipality is and that there's infrastructural needs. Even though on their road projects, they they have a few, you know, wheeler t wheelage tax and some other opportunities to to
generate revenue, but then again, they have a much bigger infrastructure. Um but then they have a so uh social uh safety network that we don't um have uh necessarily here at the city. So and and
we're seeing those the needs um rise um you know quite a bit in the fast in the past few years. >> So what is there going to what are they going to bump theirs up to? Probably closer to 8 9% also. Uh well this year they have it at 9.75%
and they do a bianium budget. So I think it's 9.75 this year and in 2027 I think it's 7 12% is what they're looking at as an increase. >> So we can adjust ours basically by how
they're falling in line too. Then >> you you definitely you definitely can do that. I guess I always look at things is is more of what are your needs versus what I don't look at what their needs are. I look at what the city's
connection >> what are Yeah. what are our residents um you know needs are um here >> No, I just had a cough. Sorry. >> Oh, >> but if you're done then I'm going to bring up Okay. Thanks. >> So, thank you. Um, I feel comfortable
just because we've worked so well together. I mean, it's not like at the end you were just coming here and you give us numbers. We've been working with the staff. So, you know, we met with the department heads and we went over things as far as where we're at. >> I from my thing, I think we're at a comfortable number with where we're
seeing. >> You know, we don't want to, you know, dig down to the bone on things just because, you know, to make an example or do whatever. We want to have a city that, you know, runs, you know, be able to run efficient. And I think with the attitude we've seen with the city
manager, yourself, and the and the management as far as the with the city that everybody is is rowing the same way. So, I'm comfortable myself with the work we put in and where we're at right now.
>> I'm agree with that, too. I too agree with what is planned out. Um I do want to correct one thing especially with the parks and wreck piece where we move the 300,000 to two
uh 2026. We have the design plans. What the $300,000 is for is land surveying. That was the plan. So that's why we had um
sorry uh HGA. Am I saying that right? >> Yes. >> That's why we had HGA come out assist with those plans. The the purpose of the 300,000. What we discussed at um parks and wreck and Ken, please correct me if I'm wrong because you were there as well
was that we we need to survey what what does it hold? What can we hold? And is it are we able to have what HGA has proposed in those areas. >> I know that they did the survey um that
JG uh Rudd was out there and did the surveying of that property, but maybe it's the is engineering that maybe that you're thinking about with that. Um well now now I truly feel lost on that piece and I think Parks and Recck would say the same thing if they were in the
audience tonight because >> okay >> that was what we had talked with at the meeting. Like I said, Ken, if correct me if I'm wrong, um because that was the hot topic on just the parks and wreck piece alone and having budgeted those
dollars. Um to see the 300 to park plans and specifications, we understood that we haven't had it surveyed. They were is what we were told and and excuse me if I'm misspeaking, but um they were ready to say, "All right,
let's let's do something with this." And then it was pushed back just given the former workshop and I wasn't there. So um I can't speak to everything and I know Dan it wasn't um a favorable experience on the parks and wreck end
for you and I for that I am sorry. Uh we can't shoot the messenger by any means but um all of that that's what we understood that we would move the $300,000 there for. So, I think we need a little bit
more clarification. Um, obviously we'll I'm comfortable leaving it at at where it's at, but I would really like to um visit next year. And I would say in January, if not the first meeting um for parks and wreck next February in regards
to what does this look like because parks and recck are really anxious about getting some stuff started and um we're we're hung up a little bit. So >> Greg, >> anything you want to add to that? >> Yeah, if I may, Mr. Mayor, to clarify,
council member Schwar that we had we spent 26 or $27,000 to get this property surveyed that was completed in September. the $300,000. If you remember during the meeting, we were discussing
we need to get engineered design plans and specifications completed so we can then decide, okay, we're going to build this first or we're going to build this first. What are the drainage concerns? Do we need to work with the wershed district? All those different
pieces. And we don't know those answers until we until we have a design, not just a concept like HA did. It's taking that to the next level. So, you could hand the plans to a contractor and say, "Hey, build this thing." >> Right. >> That's the That's the intent of the
300,000. >> Thank you. Now that you are now that you've clarified that, yes, that does ring a bell. My apologies. >> So, yeah. And assuming that stays in the budget, then we'll be working towards finding a consultant to do those for us.
>> Yes, that was okay. Thank you. Dan, if I may, um could you go to the percentage um city's increase where we're at 8% Maplewood's at 8.4? One of the things I have an issue with when I look
at this is the metric doesn't give us or the public any information about where people were prior. If if Ardan Hills
had a very very low um levy their their levy even though it's increasing 18.32% actually could be increasing less than ours depending on where their total levy is. Correct.
>> As far as levy dollars are concerned. Correct. I >> Is there another metric you could provide to us and the general public that you believe would help paint um a little bit more informed picture? Is it total levy divided by
population? Is it total levy divided by taxable properties? Um I just I mean you certainly can I mean a lot a lot of the metrics you know that are that are utilizes your tax rate and and
you've heard me say it you know before um what are we on a rank of as far as how high our tax rate is number two. >> Um but then there's a lot of factors that are into that. So, if you're going to take a Maplewood or you're going to
take a um Mountains View, um take how much commercial property they have versus how much commercial property that we have. Yet, you know, per capita, you know, we're going to be close to the same amount of road space that we have to do that we have to take care of. So,
where they can have a business taking care of a a larger part of it from a tax base perspective to it, we don't have that luxury of doing that. um you know where it the burden is more on our residents than you're going to find in some other communities. I wish that was
different but it's not. It's a reality piece to it. So when we're looking at this you know whether um it's right or it's wrong um we're having an impact on our residents and you know as we keep
raising the levy it's going to keep going up and up. It was kind of interesting. I had, you know, a another conversation actually today, a part of the conversation because I'll share the other part to it. Um that somebody had talked about their property taxes and it
it happens to be somebody who's um retired um that uh she was 80 years old and um obviously on a fixed income and um although her property tax was only going only it's still going up but 5.6%
6% in comparison to you saw the demographics of how things are are going to be shifting and was really you know how do we not have to pay taxes type of concept is is what she was um alluding to or talking but at the end of the
conversation you know what she said but there is no cheaper way for me to live >> because I couldn't afford to rent a place >> thanks yeah so I I mean, it it's all about
perspective and so I I can't answer your question as far as what metrics would be the best to be able to do. Certainly could show you dollar amounts um if if that would be helpful in the future. Um can show you any any way you would like to see um the component to it. I like to
look at things from the standpoint of have we done a good enough job through the budget process of identifying what we need? Have we scrutinized and made sure that what we need is what we need and it's not a want. That's the first component to it. And I think what we
have, we're not asking for FTEES. And so the sense and feel that I've heard from department heads to it because I'm the middle person um from city council is that right now we're we're sitting good from an FTE, in other words, a personnel
um perspective. Um heard comments um uh you from from a a couple of council members that maybe we need a few additional FTEEs. Well, that would raise us even higher. Um and then we the biggest and I keep driving saying this over and over again, the biggest driving
factor we have is our CIP. Um that's what's driving our levy. So when we go through that CIP, the question that at the end of the day is are we comfortable with that CIP? Is it reflective of what this city needs to be moving down into the future? In the past, we've had a lot
of different conversations of has the can been kicked down the road and we're paying some of those prices now of trying to play catch-up and then position ourselves into the future. One of the biggest pieces that I showed you and I did a comparison between Mounds
View and uh the city of North St. follows how much debt we're carrying um in comparison. And that debt means we're losing money. We the our power of our money is not the same as it is in
Mountains View. Um so, you know, how do we get out of that? That's part of what our plan was that we adopted and and we're now into the third year of it in 2026 is to start to levy those dollars to be able to pay cash for those um you
know like for the pavement preservation and um and move us in a in a little bit different position which is actually again I think at the end of the day saving taxpayers money. Um, but I I'd be more than glad to have a conversation with you and and try to come up with a
metrics that you think tells a better story. I I would love to do that. >> Yeah. And and I'm I'm happy with the 8% and I'm happy with the 8% because I trust my fellow council members and I trust Brian and all of you guys because I know the conversations we had and I know the work we did. But when we're
talking to um our constituents and the general public, a few more numbers, you know, for instance, our 8% raise is what 720,000ish. >> Mhm. >> But what is what is a 5.3% raise in St.
Paul? How many million? >> Yeah, it's it's huge. >> So So ju just some more of those numbers. >> Sure. it for almost like from a salesman's approach um to help share I I think might be a little helpful. >> Mhm. And and that information is readily
available so you definitely can get that for you. >> Awesome. >> Just a quick I was at the doctor's office yesterday and I checked in and the lady I was talking to her and she's 82 and she's working the receptionist. She was retired at 65 and went back to
work at 80 because things weren't she didn't have enough for all the bills and everything else. So there is a lot. You look at Menards and Home Depot, you see that there's a lot of people out there that they're running out of retirement money. So yeah. So that's why it's very
important for all of us because we'll all be retired someday and trying to live off what we have. >> Yeah. and and and we've had multiple conversations, you know, through this and this isn't easy decisions for you. Um and and that's
where, you know, in certain ways I'm I'm very proud of how you you you've stuck to a plan and you're in and you're and you're moving forward with that. Um because it's not easy and and being an elected official, that's doubly hard. Um because the easiest thing to say is I
want a 0% levy. um from a staff perspective is I have no idea how we would ever get there. Um and and be able to do anything within the city. Um but if that's what you asked um we would do our darnest to to bring it and and then
try to explain the impacts that that would end up having. But >> and we also learned from that 0% levy back in CO time it was a double because we didn't get the state that as you can see that's our second thing we depend on. >> So I mean then that go so it was a
double whammy. So, you know, you try not to be too high to get there, but you got to be high enough to be able to still get the city need we need to keep our budget going, >> right? >> Any other questions? >> Consistency as well because I know there
was talk of adding special assessments back after having them and then getting away with them. that can be difficult to start re-implementing things when you might have new council members on to have new ideas and you know some of them are worth implementing but you know going back and forth with some of those
decisions can be tough on the residents. >> It was it was tough for me to swallow like Dan said I had paid $10,000 the year before the last year we did it. So is between the two houses. So I mean it was like well I but then it's for the good. I'm glad that when the lady called and said, you know, we're on a fixed
income. Do we have to borrow from our 401k? You know, if we get in that habit where we can disperse and everybody gets a little and just remember when you do go but it does go up a little, that means you're not going to get that $8,000 slam 3 years from now. So, it's one of those things where you can budget
a little bit more to understand that it's not happening. I mean it takes a little bit for your mindset especially after you were done with it but I understand it because if everybody does it it's it's really does help the people which we have in this town older lower income.
>> Y >> I think it's important too to recognize for what it's worth the three of us that have been here and this is our third year we've decreased the levy in the past three years. So, I mean, that's I I
would like to see that in what we've done over the past period of time and what those levies looked like because I do believe that we did we are putting money away. We're finding the right tools in our toolbox to make sure that these levies do not increase um
significantly high because it is not cheap to live now and especially after these property taxes that just came out. Unfortunately, residents think that they're on our city that's doing that. So, um I'm hopeful that we can make that clear during our council meeting tonight
that it is not us that are making those decisions. But thank you for taking all the calls. >> I mean, if we have to start at 6% every year, like we you said, we're only going up 2% from the the average of the six that we're
>> that we have to just to survive. 6% is surviving if I if I'm correct. >> Yeah. I I mean if you take away in our general fund, if you take away our personnel costs, we have decreased the rest of our operational costs um year
after year. Um so I mean that's that says a lot. Um yet it you know if we didn't have the infrastructural component to it, I mean we would be sitting you know
2 3% no more than four a year. Um but that isn't our reality of where we're at. Um and so you know again from my perspective I think department heads staff have done a very good job of compiling the CIP. I think city council
has done an excellent job of scrutinizing and vetting that out with us um and making sure that we're being prudent um and that those are needs. I I truly don't see wants that are there. Um
and things do change over time and you know I think an indication of that is is just at the the last city council meeting where um you know city council had to make a a tough decision because uh in our police force um you know they
they've got failing u body cams and camera system. So Alson, where where do you come up with that? And and no, it wasn't in the CIP, but if you remember, uh because I had mentioned a number of different times, we had paid off a debt at the early in February of this year,
which we had um some money left over. Um so it was my recommendation to use that money and not hurt what we've been planning um you know, moving forward. So luckily we had that but that's that was one time um that that bond is is you
know is gone and and we're we were using up the access on to it. So um you know we won't have that next year. Um but it helped us out into in that circumstance and that's where part of the workshop that I was trying to to get at is that
we I don't want us to get I don't want us to be in Ardan Hills at 18%. Um, I want us to be somewhere in a level playing component to it. And then what we're going to need to do is if we can't make the eight and do you want eight or
if you wanted it at six, then we need to look in and again the biggest driving factor is that CIP is what can we make adjustments to in that CIP yet still be moving us forward on everything and and being able to then deliver a lower levy
um component to it. And and so that's where kind of want wanted to find out what are your priorities um and you know in city council and that's where you know at the beginning of last of this year allowing the department heads to be a part of that um retreat and and the
planning helped us so much to open up that communication and getting us a different perspective because our perspective is more on that day-to-day type of component to it in in in planning but not in that long range visionary component. into it where city
council has that piece to it. So, and again the dialogue, the communication is so important to us from staff to hear from you and to get your thoughts and and and ideas. >> Dan, uh, while we're talking, um, just want to go back to something you
mentioned. Um, when you talked about Ramsey County, you said they do a bianual budget. >> Mhm. >> Is that something the city could do? Is there cost savings to go to that route? Uh cost savings to it. Um well, I would
imagine there is some sort of cost savings considering the size just the pure size of Ramsey County because you're doing double budgets. Um but in their second year of the budget, they still review um the budget and they can make they make at that point it's called
they make an amendment um to it. So, it can change. Um, you know, they still have that opportunity to do that. Um, but it's just it again it it's it's I I look at it as just more try to to to plan things out. Um, you know, a couple
of years. Um, there's a there's a few um counties that do that, but yeah, they've been doing it for a number of years now. But but for the city, would there be an operational savings, a significant operational savings? And is it available to us? >> It's a I think it's available to us. I
mean, you still would you still have to do the final approval to it. Um you still would end up looking at it cuz things can change. Um I I don't know if it would be that big of a change or significant change for us um from the
standpoint of if we try to lock in at a certain range um of and again I'm going to say levy increases. It could be dollar increases um on an annual basis. I you know I I think you achieve that you can achieve that both ways. Um, I
think it's a little bit harder I think for our it it was when the county made the change because I was there at the time. Um, it was I think it was harder for staff and department heads to do that projection um outwards looking for
another couple of years out especially during times where there were um union uh negotiations. So what ended up being is that there was contingencies that were built within those those budgets at a higher level,
you know. So like the county has a like you used to have like a $2 million contingency that they have a part of their budget. Um so they can absorb a lot of change that could happen. Um we don't have that. Um so that would be something that you probably would want
to think about which again to first put it into your budget, you're going to end up having to raise a levy for that too. But yeah, I think it's something that we definitely could do. It just needs to be adopted by the city council. >> And I guess I would say along those lines,
if we given the stability, I guess, of the city, you know, and the members of the city, the council, and things like that. If we're all going to be around, you know, continuously, I think it would make that easier. But, you know, given
the four-year term of things, it's it's hard to say, "Yes, this is what we're going to do in six years or five years or even two years if you may not be in that same position." So, I don't know. It's it's hard to project out that far sometimes.
>> It is. And, you know, the the reality to it is is the plan that we have today. um you know, the next election could change things and and there' be a whole different thing and and the plan may no longer be the plan. Um and that's kind of a you know, reality of what can end
up happening when you have, you know, an elected um you know, council, elected board. Um so, but I think where we're at right now, I think we're we've done I think a very good job of planning. Um, I think we've opened up uh lines of
communication and I think we're making those tough decisions of of having, you know, of raising the the levy which has de and and nobody's ignoring it has an impact on our taxpayers and residents. But we're trying to balance that with making sure that the the city is still
delivering the services that the city needs to deliver. And part of that is our roadways and part of that is our, you know, facilities. Part of that is our parks. Um, and we're trying to make sure that, you know, this is a true community, um, where people can enjoy
all of the wonderful assets that the city does have. >> I talk a lot with different mayors and things and, uh, some of them are trying to get to a 5-year projection, 10ear projection. So, I just want to thank you for your guidance on being already at
for us. So, we have a snapshot of what it looks like, what's coming in 2034, what's coming in 2030. That's huge. I mean, especially when it comes to voting and, you know, changes. You know, somebody's not happy with how it's going, you know, vote happens and the next one comes in. But at least we got
an idea of, okay, the fire truck's coming or something's coming. We we can at least look at it as we're doing it. So, I I just want to say thanks again for being able to forecast. Of course, things change. We pull it, we move it, but at least we know it's there. Nothing worse than something biting you that you
had no idea was there. >> Thank you. Any else? Anybody? All right. Okay. All right. Moving on to uh discussions of the proposed 2026 fee schedule. And we have Ken Roberts here, our community
development director. Mr. Mr. Mayor, members of the council staff has worked together with all the departments, I should say, really the community development staff and uh again, big credit to Sarah and her work on this and preparing an update to the
proposed proposed fee schedule, which if it looks favorable for the council, we'll have it uh on the agenda for the December 16th meeting for final adoption. The uh staff report
we included in the packet outlines some of the major proposed changes to the fee schedule. Uh and I'll I'll run through some of the highlights for you. Uh right now we have a city processing fee uh
with for using the computer systems for any transaction and we're adding a waiver in that for any transactions less than $25. We're not going to charge a $15 processing fee. Excuse me. That just
doesn't seem reasonable. Uh the building permit and inspection fees have some uh changes. They don't directly affect the city. They will affect anyone getting permits in the city. And those were all
prepared with some input by city staff by Rum River, our building inspection consultants. And they're in a separate attachment that's included at the in your packet of information. Um, a lot of those are reflective of what
was is required now by the state law and their experience now in North St. Paul and what they think are reasonable fees for their time and for the permits that they administer for the city. Uh, in general, staff did not find any major
issues with them, but we uh need to again include them as part of our fee schedule for going forward. Uh, couple of things under business licenses. We're going to remove the outside theater and taxi cab licenses. As you remember, we talked about taxi
cabs at the last meeting. We're taking that out. Uh, there's still currently a line for special event vendor license. That's being changed to a mobile food vendor license. So, again, kind of a cleanup thing that trying to address uh
the changes that the city has adopted. contractor licenses. We're removing a couple of those because that ordinance was changed in July. Regarding general contractors and mechanical contractors, uh electric department had a few
additional fees uh or and construction inspection fees based on our electrical inspector. Those are included uh in there. the middle of our the second page of this report, we've outlined the updated park and recreation fees for the
rentals which were discussed by the parks commission and approved earlier this year by the council. So now we're incorporating those all into the fee schedule. That includes removing the alcohol deposit of $150 and adding the
$100 alcohol fee for Casey Lake Park and Housy Park as we talked about earlier. Uh this year the electric utility has some rates adjusted or included for time of use service fees and that there's a table
there that uh is in incorporated into the overall fee schedule. The actual fee schedule that's in your packet of materials is got a strikeout replacement uh version so you can see where all the
changes are. Uh again I just highlighted very quickly some of the major ones but all the new any place where there is red uh and there's many many lines of it there are changes uh important to point I I think it's
important to point out we're not proposing any changes to our planning and zoning fees. So, for a subdivision or a variance or even a driveway, uh the city is not proposing any changes to those fees at this time. Uh so, a lot of
the changes were generated by our consultants again for electrical inspections uh and our building inspections uh services that are provided to the city. Uh I guess with that, I I'll stand for questions. Dan is of course
available. Rem River included some talking points about their changes. Uh if they're included in there, if you have questions, I can try to answer them. Otherwise, I'm sure Dan or Ron
would be happy to answer any of their changes that they have. when they call for an inspection, what's the re what's the uh response time for Rum River to come in and do inspections on homeowners that are
getting projects done? >> Are they pretty quick? >> I Well, they call Rum River directly to set the inspections. >> Okay. >> My understanding it's usually 24 to 48 hours. >> Right. And we've not, as far as I know, I
haven't heard any complaints about them not getting the inspections done. >> Okay. >> That's one thing I was going to mention is when we switched to Rome River, we had some, you know, we had to do some things and I've had very positive feedback from some people and no
feedback. So, so far, you know, we seems like Rum River is going well. Any questions anymore? I was looking through them. I know we went through them during uh during our meeting. So, I appreciate that, too.
Is everyone through the city okay with uh the increases for the parks, buildings, and all that? They're in pretty good shape for that. We heard some grumbling, but the the park reservations opened up yesterday and
December 1st for residents and I I'm sure there's always some sticker shock, but I think if you remember when we looked at the fees, parks commission looked at them and the council looked at them, it seemed to me, and again, credit to Sarah, she did the research that our
fees seem very reasonable for the size of the space. And remember, they can rent it for the whole day. It's not just for a 4hour block of time. >> Uh >> that's for part for us too. So we don't have to have a shift to go. Correct. So it works out for the city not having to
spend as much absolutely both ways. >> So uh I think overall that I don't foresee a big problem with it. >> One thing I do like is that we're not doing the little onesy twoozies that we're have a minimum now. We're not going to uh So I did get a complaints.
It took two minutes and I have to pay. So that was uh I think good to be able to have that limit as far as trying to for some of the smaller ones. >> I guess I'm not following a twominut >> just a takes two minutes to do it. They
charge the amount of money. So it's one of those little onesie twoozies where it took just a couple minutes. So now we we kind of we have a two that you know if it's a a bigger job then yes otherwise it's not. And they're still responsible for any uh
cleanup that they uh bring alcohol and they're supposed to clean up after the if they have alcohol on site, they're supposed to remove it. >> Everything >> notify the city that they have had alcohol down there. Right.
>> Well, they're they're supposed to notify the city when they make the reservation. >> Right. Right. What could potentially happen is they if they don't notify the city and then it's determined there was alcohol by either the cleaners or the police or however,
then that's another conversation. We keep their entire deposit then. >> Okay. Yep. That's fair. >> Um very happy with the the fees. Um my only ask um would be that o over the next
year um keep in mind um some of the grants that are available um and make sure that these fees are in line and the wording and everything is correct where they can be covered with grants that are provided by the state like the solar the emerald ashbor and stuff like that. So
are the solar permits able to be covered by the fees? Are the ashbor trees able to be covered by the fees? So, if there's any tweaking we need to do to make it more beneficial in either wording or price, um that uh these fees
and and stuff can can be in line with what the grants allow >> to be clear is an eligible expense. >> Yes. for the ground. >> If there's no other further questions, Dan, did you have anything? >> I just wanted to remind uh the mayor and
city council that this item um with the fee schedule, your CIP, um all of your budgets, and your uh levy resolutions will all be presented to you on the 16th for final approval. Sounds good.
I appreciate that there's some time in between. So I know at one time I heard that you did it the same night sometimes the vote and after the meeting. So you do have some time. So that's good. Thank you. >> Anything else? >> There's nothing else. Thank you and we'll turn it over to the next item.
>> Y thanks for staying on top of it. We appreciate that. You know, we we re-evaluate because sometimes you get it wrong. Sometimes you need to look over things. So, it's good to be able to uh keep the line, keep it in line. And I'm not going to call a taxi or anything else. I said that today. I was at a
restaurant. I said, "You need to call me a cab because I had three iced te's." And she goes, "A cab? I'll call you an Uber." So, I kind of dated myself on that comment. >> If she said it, if she just said a limo, >> that's right. in the movers. I wouldn't want to get in
the back seat. >> All right. Next up for our topics is update on water quality and we have a public works director and city engineer Morgan Dolly. >> Hello, gentlemen. Welcome. >> Good evening, uh, mayor and council. Um, so I'm guessing Brian kind of filled you
in a little bit about what's going on with our water. Um, just to give you a quick overview, uh, we test bi-weekly for our water. uh for um basically the test is for caulifform or bacteria or ecoli in the water. Um we haven't had a
bad test in I I can't even remember what when. It's probably been eight years since we've had had a test. Basically, when we had we have a test that shows if there is ecoli in the water, which would be some type of feces or something like that. It could be a dead animal that got
into the water system or dog feces or something like that that got in there. We'd have to do something like a a boil order or something immediately. We'd have to go on the news, let people know what was going on. But a cifiform, it's a u organic
bacteria that gets in there. That could have been it could have been dirt, it could have been leaves, something from, you know, we don't know for sure where it came from. um more than likely the road project with all the water mane that got replaced up there, but we don't know that for sure. It could have been
any water main repair that we've done um over the course of, you know, this last couple months. Um like I said, we test bi-weekly. Um and basically the like the test that we did the beginning of November uh showed one one area or one
place that we took a sample. We take six different samples each or bi-weekly and they get sent into a water testing clinic. Um so when we got a positive test back for that, what they require you to do is take go back there, retest
that area or retest upstream, downstream any well that was running that at that time and then uh put those tests back in. So we did that and the test area or the one that failed the first time came
back good but one downstream failed. So what happens then is they notify the Minnesota Department of Health and they say hey there's a positive test for Caulifiform. Um so then what happens is the Minnesota Department of Health comes out and they do their own test. So just
to show um right from the beginning the Minnesota Department of Health is involved with it. they kind of guide you on what you do and what you have to do. Um, to show you the urgency that the Minnesota Department of Health really didn't have on it is they didn't come out and test for a week and a half after
those positive tests. I I was having people like on board to start doing stuff like immediately and he's like, "No, I have I'm out of town for the next week." Our Minnesota Department of Health engineer that we deal with, um, he's like, "I'll be I'll be out the following week when I get back." So he
came a week and a half later did some tests. Um and then three out of the five tests that that he took had failed. So at that point he said, "All right, we just have to temporary chlorinate our water." Now again, this wasn't something
that we had to go on the news and talk about. Um it it's just something it's a standard procedure for doing you know for what we need to do for this uh to get the bacteria out of the water. Um it's not something that's going to make
you sick or make anybody sick. Um but it's just something where we don't know where it came from. Um you know it started on the north side of town. Uh when we first heard that this happened we have four I think three or four valves that separate the north and south
side of the city. we immediately shut those valves to try to isolate it to that, you know, maybe one side if that that was affected. Um, but through further testing, we had found that, you know, we had a positive test over on this side of town, too. So, um,
basically through the guidance of the Minnesota Department of Health, um, the only thing that we do had put in our water prior to this was fluoride, which is mandated, required that you have to put in. Um, so like I said, through the Department of Health's guidance, they're
like, "Hey, we want you to chlorinate um your system, you know, and we're probably going to be doing this." And like I said, I'm giving you a quick overview here, and then you guys can ask questions. Um, so our our system, we have five wells, two
water towers. Our system is not set up to put chlorine into the system. Um, you have to have a separate port for chlorine and fluoride. you actually have to have a separate room for chlorine and fluoride to they can't be stored in the same room. Right now, they're allowing us to do it just because it's a
temporary thing for right now. Um, so all we're doing is we're running two wells. We have chlorine in two of the wells that we're pumping into the system. And really the goal for that is so immediately when we had to start chlorinating, uh, the Minnesota Department of Health tested Wednesday
morning. By Wednesday afternoon, we had bad tests. By uh Thursday morning, we had chlorine going into one of the wells. And I think by Friday morning, we had chlorine going into another well. Um so we're injecting it
in just those two wells. Um how our system is set up, it's all interconnected. So um we have a well by each water tower um that we are chlorinating and then so that's hopefully it's filling well it is filling the water tower and the system
at the same time but just because we're using we're just using those two wells. We just we've been flushing hydrants for that whole week basically to get that distributed out to as far as we can in the system. We're testing daily, multiple times for where this chlorine
residual is. And I know you a lot of people, you know, we've taken a lot of phone calls, uh, you know, oh, this smells terrible. This, and I, you know, I can smell it. I grew up in North St. Paul my whole life, so I can smell it immediately. Um, but the safe, uh,
chlorine levels are they, they go by parts per million, so they want us to be at least at 0.5 parts per million up to four parts per million. we can be to safely um people can safely drink and use the water. Um I think the highest
reading we've had anywhere in the city has been maybe like 2.1. They want us to be injecting it at two parts per million through the Minnesota Department of Health. And as it goes out um and distributes out, it'll break down because the chlorine goes out and does
it thing. Um, so again, we're monitoring this daily and trying to get this chlorine out to through the system, uh, you know, out to the outer parts of town. And we have residuals out there, but it takes just a little bit and it's going to take, he said, a minimum of a
month for us to be doing this. Um, probably more than likely, you know, around two months for us to be like chlorinating the system. So, I know I just kind of rambled on here, but I just kind of gave you just an overview of kind of where things are at. We don't know for sure where it came from, but
it's probably from a water man being replaced somewhere or a repair done somewhere. Some dirt may have gotten the system, you know, when everything is done. When we have work done in town, we always tell our contractors, "Hey, we're one of the few cities that don't chlorinate, so you guys need to be extra
careful when you're doing this stuff." So, um, yeah. So, that's kind of the quick overview. So, I'll leave you guys some time. And I know Morgan, you have anything that you want to add? >> Yeah, I know you did a really good job, uh, of covering that, Ron. I would just re-emphasize for the council and the
public that um, you know, this is not a boil order alert. There's no, uh, evidence of E.oli in the water. Total Califform is a different indicator that shows there's, um, some organic material in the water. And so, and this this
these things do happen. Um, uh, another city that, um, I work in had this happen about five years ago. They went through the protocol as directed by the Department of Health. Um, took care of the issue, right? And so, the important thing is that we're following under the Department of Health's guidance uh, what
needs to be done. Um, they're being good partners. Uh, there's more tests being taken every day. I think some more were taken uh, today and so continuing to monitor that. It will be an ongoing um potentially month-long process and and folks will smell that chlorine in the
water, but part of the testing that the city is doing is not only for uh making sure that the cifforms are gone, which is that's what the um you know, that's what we want to have happen, but also to monitor the chlorine levels as well too to make sure that they're in the proper range and everything has been in the the
appropriate range thus far. So, and and one thing I want to clarify too with it, which I had, you know, I found out from talking to Minnesota Department of Health, the caulifform can't turn into ecoli. So, it's they're two separate they're two separate things. You know, I
that just it can't happen. So, what we're dealing with, it's just to get that caulifform out. And for the chlorine, the smell of the chlorine, like I said, for my house for the first times, I was like, "Holy cow, we must have this here really strong." because I could really smell it and it was like
0.5 at my house. So, and >> just cuz you're not used to it. >> Because I'm not used to it. And what I what I've been told and I don't know if this is totally correct, but this is from our chemical supplier, but he said that if you don't have your levels up to like one part per million or 0.9 part
per million, the actual if you have low chlorine amounts in your water, it actually can smell stronger. So he says once you get your system up and kind of balanced and have it distributed evenly, he said if you get that number up there, it will smell less like chlorine. But I
mean there's a lot of residents that have lived here for a long time and you know and me being a prime example of it, I was like, "Holy cow, this is really strong." And you know, tested and it's it's still way low. So, um, we have
enough in the system that it's doing its its job, but we got to remember we have I forget how many miles of pipe in the ground, um, to get this distributed and balanced through the system, and we're doing it with just two wells right now. Um, and again, I I talked to Minnesota
Department of Health every other day and how things going. Should we be changing anything? Um I I just want you guys to everyone to know that it is being monitored and taken care of uh at night and day. So um we're flushing hydro. And
what's hard about this right now, the best way to get this distributed through your system is to flush hydrants. Well, when it's 5 degrees out, that's not a great great deal. But we have some uh hoses that we have down into some storm sewers. Uh we're also uh taking the
opportunity to flood Casey Park by flushing a hydrant >> flooding the hockey rink at Casey at the same time. So um yeah, I so I'll leave it open for questions that you guys have um about this. >> Well, thank you for the update. Um, one
thing that after you explained and learned and you had the gut feeling that there was something going on, you tried to get a hold of somebody at the, you know, the health department and he was on vacation. Is there do we have numbers for other people now in case something happens like that or >> I was in contact with him immediately.
So what >> but he couldn't come out for for a week >> that Yeah. He was like I said, "Hey, when do you need to come out and test this?" He's like, "Well, I I don't have to." He goes, "I'm going out of town for a conference." He's like, "I'll come. We'll come out." I'm like, "You don't need to come out right away." He's like, "No, not a big deal." He's like, "I'll
come out and take care of it when I get back." I think those people are assigned certain regions. I mean, this is a guy, Lucas, that I deal with like, you know, for years. So, for me, I was like, "Oh, all right. This isn't as big a deal as I
felt felt it was." Now, I don't know that it got to the other side of town because he didn't come out immediately. I I I can't say that. I just I take all my basically the water guidance from him and what we need >> 100% and I'm not questioning that. The only thing I'm thinking is when I'm on
vacation I have somebody cover for me. >> That's not an answer for next time. I think >> that's why Ry's here all the time. He chooses to come here because it's like if I'm or whatever it's like >> and I think we need to talk to them and say hey we got to have another number if something happens because it could have been something more serious in
>> Well, yeah. If if it was, you know, Yeah. And I I can't speak on their behalf. Um I just think good practice I think for us is to have a couple things to say when you're on vacation now that we went through this where do we go because waiting for you and I might that's where my thought I'm not saying
that anything was wrong it's just that you know for that you know in my out of office it's if it's an emergency or something you need you know press zero and have Tom assist you. Yeah. >> Y >> that's where that's where I would like to be able to see that in case it
happens again where anything we have where it comes to something that's as crucial as you know power water anything where you know where is our primary where is our secondary as far as trying to get a hold of people. I think it would help all of us make your life a lot easier because now you're backtracking and trying to you know
we're doing two months worth of testing. Now, it may have helped, it may not have, but how fast we could get somebody out. And as far as we couldn't do anything until he came out here, it's not like he said, "Well, just go ahead and start treating and I'll get back to you when I come from vacation." It's, "Hold off. I'll come back when I'm done with vacation."
>> And I don't think that's an answer. >> Well, thank you for all that you've done. It does stink. Like, Lori, I'm We are very fortunate to have a well here in North St. Paul and we do recognize it, but clearly we have not been through this for >> Yeah. >> How long? So to have this minor issue
for two months and it's not E.coli, I think we're in a good we're in good place and it sounds like you guys are public works is on top of it >> always. Which pumps or wells are you treating? Right. >> We're pumping or we're pumping one well five. So the tower at Northwood, the
well right there and then uh well number two over in Tower Park um by that water tower. So that one actually had a separate injection site that was installed. Um, and then we actually we take took the fluoride out of we're not
pumping fluoride in well five. We're going in through that port through that in our well, which the Minnesota Department of Health approves that our fluoride levels are still have still been holding up. Um, they said our fluoride levels can go lower. Basically, the fluoridees in the water for kids
teeth and keeping and that's basically the only reason the fluoride's in there. So, >> if you had a rough guess, what kind of budget impact does this have? I I don't know. Right. So, right now the the pumps that we had to install and the chlorine,
it's pretty they're pretty basic. It's a basic pump. Um I I don't know what the the chlorine stuff. I didn't even ask those questions at first because I'm like, we need to get chlorine out here and start doing this. >> Um but I'm I I'm going to get numbers together for um just so we kind of know
if we had to do this or if we had to look at doing this, you know, permanently down the road, what what that would look like. Like I said, we would need separate rooms or there's stainless steel outbuilt things that you can put in because the chlorine needs to be stored on, you know, different site. But >> that would that's for a that would be a
speculative like future permanent outfitting, right? But in terms of what's going on right now, um the other city that had this happen five years ago, I did call the the public works director and just ask them what was the budget impact. He said it was fairly minor, I guess, just for the temporary
uh work that they did. So again, I don't have an exact number. That's something that public works can maybe put together and provide a future update for the council on. >> Yeah. >> Oh, good. Well, appreciate the hard work. >> Thank you very much. Sounds like you've done everything
>> in your power. So, >> yeah, >> we're we're on it every day. So, I just >> No, >> rest assured that we'll make sure we have safe drinking water for everyone. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Thanks. Thank you. >> All right. Appreciate it. Let's uh ask for adjournment.
>> So moved. >> So move. Council member Schwar, second Woods. All those in favor say I. >> I. Thank you. It's uh 6:30. Give us 5 minutes to 6:35 start the next round. Part: 2
Now, >> one second. He gives it the thumb. Okay. Now, you go ahead and hit the gavl right there. >> I'm scared. >> Come on. All right. Call the meeting in order. >> I'm Elliot and I'm going to lead the pledge of allegiance.
>> All right. Here we go. >> Go ahead. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
>> Good job. Thanks. >> All righty. Roll call, please. >> Council member Nordby, >> here. >> Council member Woods, >> here. >> Council member McKenzie, >> here. >> Council member Schwear, >> here. >> Mayor Mongi, >> here. Thank you so much. May I please
have a motion to adopt the agenda? >> I make a motion. >> So move. Council member Swear. >> Second. >> Second. Council member Norby. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Thank you very much. >> All right. First up's consent agenda. Item A, approve November 18th, 2025 city
council meeting minutes. Item B, general claims of $263,886.15. Item C, resolution approving the reappointment of commissioners. Item D, approval of temporary liquor license and charitable gambling permit um with the church and school of St. Peter annual
gala February 7th of 2026. Item E, resolution to stagger arts and culture commission terms. And item F, approve the fiber maintenance locate service agreement between the city of North St. Paul and Zo Group LLC. >> Thank you so much. Would anybody like to
pull anything at this time? If not, a motion, please. >> So moved. >> So moved. Council member Woods. >> Second. >> Second. Council member McKenzie. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. Thank you very much.
We'll move on to open meeting open to the public. John Schmall. Just want to thank uh council member Schweer for passing this out. It gives me a few seconds more and probably less.
This is what I got as an email. That's the top sheet. That's what a class act uh electric utility does in appreciation for a customer at 50 years
nothing from North St. Paul. Wouldn't it be nice that you took a uh kind of lead from Excel and appreciate the there's got to be other people in this city that have been on the roles of the U electric
utility for at least 50 years. just a suggestion and I've also there's always a question as to where the standing of the electric utilities is rate is and uh you have to
get a comparison and just lucky that my brother happens to be in St. Paul. So, I got an XL bill and it's uh you can take this and you know, you're going to be voting later this month on the uh rate
that's going to be charged for the electric utility. And there's absolutely no input that you have for a citizen to make a comment. you don't have a a an open uh for anyone who would like to
stand up and say what does this increase or what is the cost for the electricity in North St. Paul does to me as a cost to keep living and keep warm. So, uh, Excel when they, uh, want a rate
increase, it's a year process with input from the public and, uh, having all other kinds of, uh, meetings before they do come out with a rate. So, in this case, you know, the figures uh are smoke
and mirrors. So you look at the rate uh per kilowatt hours, it's a half a cent less than um XL for this uh September bill. Wow. Hey, half a cent less. The only thing is is the cost the u increase
for power it is over twice the amount of XL. So uh you know trying to make a comparison is uh not a lot of fun. Well, you can I uh did my calculations and if
you're at all interested to see how we show up against Excel for St. Paul and Excel already has their increase in and I have no idea if there's going to be any increase for uh North St. Paul. That'll be coming up later on. So, just
a little bit of information. And for plowing, this was strange this year. Wednesday it could have been plowed. Maplewood next to me on Radits they plowed but North St. Plow didn't plow and there were two inches of snow. I
measured it. >> Time's up. John, thanks for your time. You all right? That's the only one I got up here. So, next we're going to go to a public hearing for the tax levy for and
budget for 2026. I need to um tell the time for that, right? Need to log in at uh 6:40. So, do we just in general do we have a sign up for that or is it just if anybody has it come up? >> Anybody has any comments?
>> Yeah. I'll walk through a a PowerPoint first and then um open it up to the public for any comments and questions. Yep. Um and so this is um our 2026 truth and taxation hearing and um tonight kind of provide some
information um and we'll um cover why do property taxes change, property tax in Minnesota, the 26 truth and taxation um notice, preliminary valuation changes, the 2026 levy, 2026 budget, potential property tax impacts, additional
information, questions and comments. Um, so why do property taxes change? Uh, because there's changes in market values, um, levies at various jurisdictions, um, debt issuance, special assessments, voter approved referendums, changes in state and
federal mandates, changes in aid and revenue from state and federal governments, and state legislative changes. Um what you will see in in our budget is we are not um recommending nor are we u seeking any approval on any rate changes for any of our utilities.
Uh that was a goal that we set early in the year and we've stuck by it. So there will be no rate changes in any of our uh utility rates. Um in addition um we do not charge special assessments. Um that is why our levy is up a little bit um
higher is to cover infrastructural um needs um in the future. Um and we'll kind of cover that um here too. So property tax in Minnesota uh one of the bigger factors um that drives taxes is your assessed value on your property. Um
so that is not done by the city that is done by the county assessor's office. Um the city sets the preliminary levies uh by September. Um and um there's proposed uh property tax notice that are mailed
by the county um which uh our residents should have received uh started to uh I think the county started mailing those out about in the middle of November. Um and then we're required to hold a truth and taxation public hearing and then property taxes are finalized for the
following year. Um the city will be finalizing um property taxes on December 16th. Um this is what uh the notice looks like. Um and you'll see that there's both a estimated market value and a
taxable market value. And it'll also the notice will include the jurisdictions um that are covered. Um, a total property tax bill is not just the city, it's the Ramsey County, it's the city, it's the school district in which you live in. It's Met Council's um special
taxing districts and then it can be other um taxing districts um that are not isolated in those four. In other words, it can be a watershed. Um, it can be um uh can be an HRA um can be included into that.
As you see here that there's both the estimated market value and taxable market value. The actual taxable market value is what the property tax is actually um calculated off of. Um and you'll see that from the estimated market value um in a residential
property to um the taxable market value, there's an exclusion, a homestead market exclusion. And this is how that market uh exclusion is calculated. It's dictated by uh the Minnesota state statute. And you take
the value um and it's 40% of the property value up to 95%. So the max max maximum exclusion can be $38,000 and it's then phased out all the way up to if a property hits $517,200
there's no longer any exclusion. So for the example of the notice that I had um previously shown where in 2025 there was a $35,000 uh market uh taxable uh market value to
313. there was an increase of 800 8,700 or a 2.85% increase. Um so it would have ended up resulting in about a 4% um tax uh reduction in the in the in the bill.
Uh this breaking down the truth and taxation notice and again I'm using the same um proposed tax um all the way throughout this presentation. You're seeing that even though the total property tax on this bill went up 6.62%,
the Ramsey County portion of it increased 9.96%, the city increased 7.35, the school district increased 2.77. Um the school district, if a referendum would have been passed, still would not
have included this um on their um on this notice um because the the uh notices were prepared before the referendum um had gone um up for voters. And then uh the metropolitan special
taxing districts increased 2.96% and the other um special taxing districts increased 39%. The overall result impact for this um resident um is 6.62%. If we look at the distribution of the
tax of a tax dollar that's collected from property tax um just shy of 35% goes to Ramsey County, 32% goes to the city of North St. Paul, 30% goes to the school district and all others uh amount to about 3%.
uh kind of looking at market values and change. Um market values the last two years have really quieted down. Um the on a medium value home um the uh market value increased 2.4 um from for payable
2026 last year was 1.5. Prior years we saw some really um bigger increases of 9.2 2 and then a 15.5 and there were even some bigger ones in prior years to that um right after um co um the preliminary market value
increases only 3.9% for payable 2026 and you can see it's a 6 and 25 7.7 in payable 24 and 17.7 in payable 23 again things have have drastically flattened out as far as values um increasing
doesn't mean that it's for every home. Um, every home is valued a little bit differently. Um, and that's again is the assessor's office, Ramsey County Assessor's Office. But you can have um homes that will see significant increases while others are staying
relatively flat. Um, all of that will have a significant impact on the overall property tax um liability that a resident will see. So this is kind of just a chart of kind of since 2017 of how that median value
has um changed and you can see again um once we hit into 22 to 23 there's significant increase um from 22 to 23 23 to 24 and then you see the last two years have really flattened out and
again our overall uh for the city the estimated market value again kind of mirroring the same thing. We saw some really big increases. We're really flattening out now in the in the past two years. Coming down to our levy, um the city's
total levy, which includes the general fund debt, street maintenance, park facilities, HA, and EDA levies, um is increasing 8%. Um that's a a total dollar amount of $638,771
increase from 2025. If we look at a comparison of proposed levy increases um for the cities and townships that are within Ramsey County, you can see that North St. Paul um is towards the left hand side or the lower
side. Uh the range goes from a 3.88% all the way up to 18.32%. The this will break down dollar-wise of the components of our budget. And again, that city is made up of five different components. The general fund and the general fund went up just shy of
$95,000. The street maintenance um component that we're levying for infrastructure um went up 54,000. parks um again for park infrastructure went up $76,000 for asset preservation which is taking
care of our facilities um is uh which have not been done. We have a number of 20 plus year facilities um is going up 218,000 and then debt we issued a debt earlier this year um to cover the 2025 street and reconstruction project. Um
the levy component of it increased to $194,000. That makes up the full $6 38,000 levy increase. Uh HR and EDA are remaining the same and they have remained the same for a number of years.
Um this is kind of a breakdown of our debt. Um and you can see the the ad the real ad to it is again that 2025A which is the um bonds that were issued for the 2025 street and uh utility
reconstruction project. Uh H and EDA levies are staying the same as 2025. And this will show you kind of the breakdown of our our general fund budget. Um from a revenue side you can see we have a quite a significant
dependency on ad valerum taxes which are property taxes. So we're almost at 58% of reliance on property taxes. The other big component to that is intergovernmental um which makes up a little over 21%. Um the biggest component of that uh $2.1
million of intergovernmental is what is called local government aid which makes up about $1.6 $6 million um of that component. From an expenditure standpoint, um our personnel costs in our general fund uh
make up 69%. Um and by and it's followed by um contractual services which equals 25%. Uh the contractual services are for where you see for legal fees um for our
uh are we um have a engineer um that we contract out instead of in in-house service and then also for um code um inspections for building inspections. These are the numbers that support all
of those that are in the graph. uh kind of breaking it out by uh department, kind of a little different look on the expenditure side. And you're going to see the the two biggest components to this are police and fire and code enforcement. Police makes up 46 or 47%
um of our general fund budget. Um fire and code enforcement um just shy of 16%. And you combine those two together, you're you're seeing that, you know, 73% of our general fund budget, um our levy budget is made up of public safety
components to it. Again, this slide will show you the numbers that um back up um that um graph that you just saw. This is produced by Ramsey County and it and it kind of shows what are some of
the potential um property tax impacts um based upon uh the proposed taxes. And if we look for the city of North St. Paul, we have a total number of parcels of um just shy of 3,800. Um there should be about uh 370 that'll
see a decrease or a 0%. The majority of people will see a 0 to 10% um increase in their property taxes. um followed by um about a thousand that'll see 10 to 20%. And then there will be a a number
um 174 that'll see 20 to 30% and then you'll see some that'll see more than 30% um increase. Anybody who's seeing a 20 to 30% increase is going to be is having to to have a significant increase
in their market values to generate that type of increase. numbers on the screen. >> There is a copy in the back if you want to >> be gone. >> It's in that binder.
>> That's the council packet in that binder. It would have been nice for us to follow along with other uh you can see a little bit better. Percent of of change decrease or 0%'s first
column. Second column 0 to 10, 10 to 20, 20 to 30 or 30% or more. uh some different uh information for uh residents. Um again, valuations, anything that has to do with property classifications, valuations really need
to be directed to Ramsey County. Um and there's the number for Ramsey County Assessor's Office. um and they can um answer any questions that you may have regarding that. Um there's also some um programs that can help reduce property
tax. There's a senior citizen tax um property tax deferral. Again, the numbers provided or the website um that uh a resident um who may qualify for that can can get in contact with. And then also just kind of some reminders of
the homestead deadlines and exclusion programs. Homestead applications if your property is not homesteaded um are due by December 31st of 2025 and that would be then in effect for the um payroll of 2027. Um Minnesota property tax refund
um again there's a website uh for the at the state of Minnesota um they need to be filed by August 15th. There's special homesite classifications for blind or disabled persons and there's also a market value exclusion for disabled veterans. So, there's some information
um that uh that is there if you uh go out to those various websites. Um with that um I'll take any questions or comments that uh city council u may have at this point and then we'll open it up to um the public for any comments or
questions that they have. >> I'd like to add just one thing. All of this information is in our council packet that's located on our website northpaul.org under government and agenda meeting agendas and minutes under our date. So you'll be able to pull that
information too. >> I know we discussed this in workshop so we kind of got where we were as far as that. Is there anybody else after hearing again has any questions? >> Not at the same. Okay. >> Oh, thank you, Dan. >> Okay. Thanks, Dan. >> Open it up. >> Yep.
>> Republic. >> Anybody like to come forward >> at this time? Come on, Sue. >> So, springboard, 257313th Avenue. And I did not come here expecting to say a word, but here I am.
And the only reason I am I I don't understand these numbers. It means very little to me. But I am very very passionate about our parks. It is very important to any city to have
parks. It's the health of the community for the health of the community. And I have heard rumors that there is a chance that some of our park money might be taken away. Am I right or am I wrong? Is that
>> No. >> No. >> Oh, good. So, maybe I don't even have to say a thing, but I'm just want to impress upon you. It is very important to have parks. It's it's a equalizer. So maybe I'm preaching to the choir here,
but but I just felt impelled compelled to say that because I had heard this rumor and it was making me nervous and um my I I cannot die until Mcnite is done. >> I cannot. So um we it's important to do that. So
okay, >> anything else? >> Thank you, Sue. >> Appreciate it. >> Anybody else? >> Yeah. Hi, I'm Ingred Kohler. I'm on the parks commission. Um I I talked to Sue earlier today because Sue was on the com commission before. Um and I knew she
felt passionately about Mcnite and I think the the the only thing I would add to what you said is that um Mcnite is a is a a multi-phase project that we're interested in in in doing and it it is
an incredibly visible park. It it is uh a lot of people come from other communities to play on the ball fields and we just wanted to make sure Mcnite got some some love. We we we have a lot of great parks in um in our city. We we
love them. Um but we we haven't really done much for Mcnite and I when I served alongside with Sue, I know that Mcnite was kind of a thorn in her side like why aren't we working on this park? So that's why I I called Sue today just to
say I I and and I am like Sue. I I'm not going to pretend to understand the budget um or or really many of these numbers. Um so I'm speaking very generally on behalf of the parks
commission just saying um we uh we feel strongly that the parks do help our community in in a very fundamental way. Um, and I think that at, you know, at one point I was a young um, person
looking for a a home for my family. Um, and I I when I look at a community and I have young children, I want to check out the parks. I want to check out the the public spaces. Um, and that's important. Um, so I've used up plenty of time. So,
thank you. Sue, do you have anything to add? >> No. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. just a quick that we we're discussing when it comes to parks and of course budgets come in with it. So that's where we're just trying to figure out we know how much money you know as tax dollars and we're always trying to figure out
what projects and how we can stretch as much as we can because some of the things when it came up there was multi-million dollars to do some of the things and the tax dollars isn't there. So we just have to understand and be able to to be able to look at it and see where we can do it. But Mcnitefield's
always been on the radar. Thank you. Anybody else? Come on up. Hi there. Uh Pete Drake, 2254 Aerial Street North, very western border of North St. Paul.
um very aware that you do not set property um the valuations uh for property that that's done at the county level by the assessors. Um, but
just for some context to um the struggle that I think people are going through, uh, in 7 years since 2019, my property taxes have gone up or my valuation has gone up 73%.
>> Wow. >> Um, this year it went up 14.4%. Last year 10.8%. So, call it 14 and 11. So, compared to the chart on the the
board that said they're basically flat, I'm sure when averaged across all the properties, I'm sure you're correct about that, but that's not true for all of us. >> Mhm. >> Um 73% I compare what I've been paying in
taxes to North St. Paul and my since 2019 my taxes have gone up 89.4%. Um that's that's nearly double in 7 years. That's a lot. Um the real reason I'm
here, I think the part that applies to North St. Paul in particular is the uh tax valuation or the assessment increase percentage
uh for my property doesn't match the percent increase in the north St. Paul taxes. Maybe there's a bigger formula for that. But instead of being assessed the what is it roughly 8%
um I'm being assessed by North St. Paul um 18.8% increase. Um my property went up um according to
uh taxes payable um 13%. So that's a that's a 5.8 8% difference. That's roughly 50% more in taxes and I can't account for it on my tax statement. I know that I could probably call
someone and talk that through type of thing, but I thought it would be important to appear here and just say that it's it's not transparent. I don't understand. It uh produces a lot of uh consternation. I've talked with others of my neighbors.
they have the same issues. Um if it it would make sense that our um our taxes would go up according to those percentages. So I I was wondering
um how how does a person deal with that um the difference in the numbers? >> That's a it's a very good question. So, property taxes is in some ways very simple and in some ways very complex.
Um, so I could sit down and show you how each even though I'm not the one who calculated, how each and every one of those was calculated. Um, the percentages I I understand how you're looking at it. You're looking at if my market value went up this percentage, why didn't my property taxes go up the
same percentage? It's not necessarily going to be linear in that in that sense of the way, but I could definitely sit down and show you how they're calculated. Um, and we could prove out um that component um to it. Um, but there's a lot of different factors that
in, you know, that are included into that. So, you're seeing >> and to be clear, I'm not looking at all I'm not confusing all the different lines. Yep. I'm just looking at North St. Paul. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you're going to see that same type of relationship on on
the Ramsey County. If you aggregate if you take Ramsey County as an aggregate, it will not match up that same way. >> Yeah, >> that's what I'm saying because it's deeper into the calculation um to it. Yeah. But I, you know, you know, my I'm officed here. Um any
day that you would like to come in, we could definitely make an appointment and walk through it. I'd be more than glad to help you. FYI, back in the late 90s, I actually was in Ramsey County and did the property tax calculations. So, I I can walk you through it pretty quick. >> Is there a reason that that's not
available to an individual property owner to make sense of it for themselves? >> To make sense of it, I there's so many different components to it that to understand it. I don't know if it is. I know Ramsey County does a very nice job. They have a tax calculator that's
available online. They have uh the current tax rates. They have all the prior tax rates. They have all the values. They have a lot of information that's out there and I think it goes back to maybe even 10 years. Um, so there's a lot of information. That's where I could sit down with you and kind
of give you just the quick overview of how to calculate it and you'd be able to do it in no time. Um, but yeah, the percentages won't line up on onto that. Um, you know, I think if everything had stayed flat, um, with an 8% increase from the city, you probably would have
seen somewhere about a I'm going to say 5 to 6% increase. So then if you have a market value increasing 13%, you probably are going to see a jump up 18 to 19% on the North St. Paul line. >> Yeah. Doesn't >> doesn't make sense.
>> Doesn't make sense. Doesn't it make sense from the sales in the area? Um, and we have to show up in tax court to to fight that. That is extremely frustrating. >> At this point, you have a tax court, but every every year the assessor's office
has an open book um and that you can meet with an assessor and go through the valuations and they should be able to supply with you or supply to you comps um of how they evaluated and how they came up with your um thing. Yeah. At the
end of the day, if it if they don't change it at that point in time, you end up having to go to a tax court and usually you don't see too many residentials doing that, unfortunately. But yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Yeah. Um
bottom line is uh this puts my wife and me in a situation of just saying we just can't afford to live here. We need to move further out. That's hard. Mhm. >> I'd like to stay in North St. Paul. >> How many years you been here?
>> I've lived here since 2004. >> So 23 years. 24 years. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Drake. >> You come on up, sir. My name my name is Michael Walt, 2661
Eldridge Avenue East, and I'm a 44 year resident, so I've been here a while, >> although some people don't still consider me an outsider. >> Uh, I have I have two questions. When you say the mean value is 310,000 for the homes, I mean, where does that
really sit? So, if like somebody's at 450, are they like really at the high end or are they are they just barely above the median? You know, how what's the what's kind of like the blocks that those appear in? >> All of that information is supplied by the assessor's office of Ramsey County.
So, they're the ones who are setting the median and and you know the definition of the median. >> So, that's the median for North St. Paul. >> That's the median for North St. Paul is 310. >> But you don't know what the spread is in North St. Paul. >> I don't off the top. No, I don't. No. >> Okay. >> The second question is relates to the
budget and it relates to I know in the last year you were talking about offering some of the businesses like 20 grand a piece to spruce up their storefronts which we probably needed. You know it's a pretty sad some of the the stores. One of the comments I would I was I was going to make a while back
but it didn't is that some of the stone that they've put on the front of these buildings is just rotting away and they're not even 20 years old. you know, yet you look at some of the buildings that have been there 50, 60, 70, 80 years, and that brick is still pretty good. So, if you're going to give money
away, make sure that they do it in in non-porous materials so that it show stays rather than just, you know, just goes away in like 15, 20 years. In fact, there's a lot of stuff along uh South Avenue where the county, you know, put some of the retaining walls and those
are all broken down because they're porous. >> So, that's all I have to say. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> So, just to be clear on the the 310, half are lower and half are more when it comes to the value as far as where we're
we're at. So, so we do have some that are very quite a bit higher and some that are quite a bit lower. That's part of our lower middle income. So, thank you for coming up. Anybody else where we're open? >> Yes, sir.
John Schmall, 2750 Chisum Avenue. I used to attend all the budget meetings. I would not miss A1. But in this last year, we had this instance of the uh park dedication fee that wasn't paid and
it had to come out of the skin of the uh city of North St. Paul when I should have been a developer because of a disagreement or whatever it was and that was $80ome,000 and Sue you can thank me for finding
that and bringing it to their attention and so the park dedication fee got $8ome,000 because of me anyway. And then we had this fiasco of the consultant for the white elephant,
$9ome,000. And I go, my god. Uh, I went to budget meetings and they were down to a gnat's eyelash about what the money was going to be needed and the taxes and the rate
and the whatever. And there was no problem. We found $80ome,000 to be backfill the park dedication fee. We had $9ome,000 to go on a consultant which was a waste of time. The outcome was the same. We can't do it. We don't
have enough money for that white elephant. It just isn't enough money in the taxpayers's pocket to pay it. But I can't imagine it. Where did the money come from? Is that kind of money built into this budget? a slush fund of some
kind of situation that there's a line item contingency fund. Yeah, I won't call it slush fund. I'll call it a contingency fund because you came up with $170,000 in the last year out of god knows where.
Anyway, that's and I will never again attend another budget meeting because I really don't understand where you get this money when things say, "Oh, we need to do this. Son of a gun." Yeah, we got money. Anyway, I would suggest uh uh
going to uh the open book. I've been to the open book. The the assessors aren't, you know, gremlins or whatever. They're nice guys, nice women. And uh I was able to convince them that u the size of my
deck was not the size that they had used for their calculations and that the overhang over my front door is not a porch, it's an overhang. So uh they do take uh input and change.
In both instances, my deck was smaller than they said it was. And my overhang is just the damn overhang of the roof. It's not a porch. There's nothing there that you could call a porch. But uh anyway, good uh program just to attend
it. You It's going to be for next year, not this year. But uh go see him. >> Was that last year, John? >> What? >> That you attended >> the what? The >> open book. >> The open book. the the open book. Yes, it was a year pre previous. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you for that. >> Oh, all right. >> Welcome. >> Evening. I'm uh Mark Zadney. I live at 26417th Avenue. Only been a resident here for about a year and a half. Um and I'll be honest, I got some sticker shock
when I saw the property tax increase. um my city portion is going up uh 27% almost. So I'm in that one of those farther to the right brackets. And my question is related to that breakdown
uh how is that breakdown determine is that the county determining oh these number of houses are going to see this increase these will see a lesser increase. These will see is that determined by the county sir I I'm assuming >> yes that was yes that was prepared by
Ramsey County. Okay. All right. I was curious about that. Um, thank you. Um, I think that was the main question I had. Um, but that does seem to like that puts an inordinate burden. I mean,
almost a 30%. So, the county, my county portion is going up 20 almost 30%, 29.7%. My estimated market value went up less than 19%. My taxable market value went up 22%. There's that disconnect
>> and it is it's like I'm trying to rationalize this >> seeing am I going to be am I going to see a commensurate increase in you know services and >> um it's kind of hard to imagine that and then two like my income is not going up 26 I wish it was
>> uh but it's just a lot to swallow um I appreciate your time and I appreciate your answer um I may ask for one of those sessions where you can go >> Sure bit by bit because it's confusing and I'll be honest It's like the market value. I I've been a homeowner for I
don't know since I was in my early 20s. It seems totally disconnected to the true market value. And so it seems like there must be some kind of voodoo they're using on the back end. Like are they determining the budget first and then back calculating the market value?
>> No, they're not supposed to because usually well the values are produced as of January 2nd. >> Okay. So in 2025, January 2nd of 2025, those are used for payable 2026. So that's the values that are showing. The only adjustments that end up getting
made are anything that would come from an open book meeting um because there's still valuation changes that they can make or if there was a court petition and a value got changed. Those are the only changes that would end up being made and then reflected um at the time that they do the uh property tax notice.
>> Okay. All right. Okay. Thank you. That's all I have. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. I have a question now that we brought that up too as far as after you you know a year and a half he said he you've been there. I had a friend too that up in Hugo where the 7,000 and the next year it jumped up. Is there
something where when you're new they recalculate any different as far as if a property's been sold? Is is there if you've been there so many years is there a different increment then do they do like an adjustment after a property sold as far as um value or because I know
when I bought my house in 2012 the next year afterwards it it bumped up more than I I thought but after that it leveled out. >> I I can't answer that 100% from the assessor standpoint. it it does seem to be some sort of cor correlation between when a property goes on sale that
usually within a year or two that there's a new evaluation that's done on that um part to it. I do know that you know when when we saw the big spikes following CO um that you would see regions or areas seeing significant
increases. I think by statute Ramsey County has to do things on a courtal basis. In other words, they have to do all properties once every four years. Um they have to, you know, do the evaluation and again they should be generating it by um uh market
comparables um which is sales and so sales we all know just right after you know in the recent years sales were people were >> buying houses at um 10 20 30% over ask.
Um, so then those comps are then all a sudden going to hit everybody into a whole entire area. Um, because they use CAM systems and and they'll just generate that and then boom, everybody's seeing that big significant increase. But yes, I believe a sale does probably
trigger something >> um within a year or two that >> bad luck of the draw. If it's the four years and it's been three consecutive big years, then you're nailed. But then if you didn't get that, then it's starting to level out again. So >> and you're and you're and you're seeing by the comments some of these val you
know the these changes. So you know you know we have an you say who we have an employee here in the city who lives within the city. They actually saw a property track uh property tax decrease because their value actually decrease. So they're on that whole opposite side of the spectrum.
>> It's a luck of the reevaluation. how how they come up with I I mean those are really good questions of that need to be asked and but the assessor is the one who has to answer those pieces to it. >> We appreciate tapping your former knowledge knowledge of Ramsey County. I know it can put you on a spot but thank
you for sharing that with us and being able to do that. >> Lucky having you >> in our midst here and for the two residents uh that had the percentage I highly recommend um you sit down with Dan if you can find the time. Um we are lucky to have him here and he's a great
resource. Um none of us, you know, like the taxes going up, but he can at least understand help you understand why and and where the numbers came from. >> Yeah. >> Well, this year my tax only went up 2%, but mine gone up for the last four
years, but this year I've leveled out down to 2%. So it will probably level off here pretty soon. Yeah, we're all in the thick of it together. There's no tax exempt for us sitting up here. So, I had the two years
ago was my big one, too. So, well, thanks everybody. If there's anybody else, if not, we appreciate you coming out tonight for that. So, thank you so much. >> There's no business actions. >> Close that portion. >> Yep. Oh, that's right. I got to do the
time. Sorry. 7:21 close the public meeting. Thank you for the reminder. Reports. All right, there's no city business action items this evening. So, we'll move on to reports for the city manager and departments uh from our staff meeting
today. Uh electric department been doing some cleanup after every snowfall. They kind of clear around the more major equipment around town. Um they did have a few trees down to caused some issues, broke a pole and brought some wires down. Uh they're getting holiday lights up out there. Um hope I think they were
supposed to finish that up today and have the lights burning. So, bring some Christmas cheer down. Um they did have one position that was open. They did go through the uh hiring process and they did hire a young man for an apprentice that should be starting here in a couple weeks. So on
December 15th, um they're also at the end of the year working on their inventory uh for the auditors and doing some updates from the construction that that happened this summer with their mapping. Uh community development has been busy.
We're working on the uh trash RFP or the solid waste. So, we'll be that went back to um the company that uh takes care of that at no charge through Ramsey County. That's back in their hands for the final gober and then we'll bring that to you
guys at the next council meeting. Um and also they're working on a couple of ordinances uh one to do with the number of pets um homes can have and uh also some trailer ordinances updates that we're going to have coming forward.
uh communications been they're working with uh WSV's got some letters put together for us that they're going to be going out uh about the uh service line um and doing the inspections of what we have out there. Um
>> they have uh one more event for the Holly Jolly night which is this coming Friday at Casey Lake Park. um finance courseman working on uh truth and taxation and prepping all the meetings and then they'll be working on
clearing uh or wrapping up uh the end of the year for preparations for the uh budget and then working with getting the auditors uh ready to go. Um police had really good outcome with their shop with the cop this year. They raised uh I
believe over $10,000. So um it'll be a nice event. they were able to spread that out to more families for that and uh so that's great for them, great program. Uh public works of course um they've been working on the first snowfall that came out this year. Uh
went pretty good. No damage to vehicles or anything like that. So um keeping up with the student built house. So the basement's been poured. Um that will be a twin home. Uh the uh it was back build today after um
waterproofing the basement walls and putting the insulation around it. Had an unfortunate event of them somebody starting the porta potty on fire there. So getting the new one in for them. Um and they're working on getting out the uh ice rinks and flooding them
already. So we'll have three of them out three different parks uh Northwood, KBY, and Casey Lake. Um, and uh, we're still going to have the polar park and the update on the playground equipment out there. That's supposed to still happen yet this year. So, they got pushed off a
few times. Fire department's been working through their agility testing, which they have in November, and they're finishing up now. And, uh, they got four new recruits that are still um, going through the education process. Um,
and also, uh, Ken and I met with, uh, Mindot when they first put up the Margaret Street Bridge. Um, when they redid highway 36, we had asked to put, you know, some city of North St. Paul on it, and that was not in their policy at the time, but since then, they've
changed that. So, we're putting together some, uh, pictures you guys to look at on how we want to do it. Maybe putting the emblem up there and, uh, city of St. Paul on it. So, uh, we'll have that coming forward at a later date, but that's it. >> Thanks. I mean, went by Eden Prairie
Chaz, I call you every time and go, "How come they got a sign? >> How come they got a sign and we don't?" So, thank you for following up on that. >> Appreciate it. All right. Reports from council commissions. >> Um, I was able to attend the opening of
the new b the new bakery in North St. Paul again and the mayor was also there with me. And um we had uh able to taste some of their wares and goods and very good. It's a good place to go and get some
good treats to get. >> We were we're built for testing bas >> I think. So yeah, >> they were got happy when they saw us walk in. >> Oh yeah. >> It's right on the south side um of seventh. What would be another?
>> Right next to Sandy Sewing. Right. No right next to Sandy Sandy. sewing den. There's a driveway in between the bakery and Sandy's >> between Charles and Margaret. >> Y >> used to be the old Max, wasn't it, at one time? Was that >> No, no, no. That was the old uh Corland
liquor. No, not Coral. Uh, >> sorry. >> North, was it owned by Franny Beast? Yeah, that was a long time ago for me. >> It was good. It was very good. Very good. >> Good family. Um, they live in West St. Paul. They started their business here. They're really excited to be in North St. Paul.
>> Nice family. Oh, grandma was there, mom, dad, kids, everybody was there. So, it was a great one. >> Would you like to do for commissions? And I didn't get updates or anything. >> Thank you. You're welcome. >> Um, parks and ramad uh gosh, two weeks
ago in the meeting was pretty passionate regarding the, um, workshop and the budget and, um, Ken was there. We went over just what everything looked like. We're confident that uh Dan I know Dan
presented and I know that sometimes you can't shoot the messenger. Um but we're I would say that we're confident and we're in the right direction that parks will continue to be where we're at. We need to find the proper funding and plan
what is for our future. Um it was a shock when we heard that what we're not going to have any money or we're going to have money taken away. So Sue, thank you for coming up tonight. Um but just keep in mind we're very passionate. Parks is very passionate
about where they are and um building their budget and how much it's taken them to get to where they are today. >> So >> sounds good. >> Okay, >> you're good. >> All right, we're good. We don't have another meeting till January.
>> That's right. Park. Yes. >> Oh. Uh, Arts and Culture Commission. Uh, we've Are >> you done? >> I was looking at the EDA, but go ahead. >> Uh, Arts and Culture Commission. Uh, we've got our next meeting tomorrow night. U, we also have an interview for
a new commissioner um as well and have been working on some process planning. uh just trying to figure out like what the process is for reviewing and approving some of the projects that we want to do. So, making sure that it's formalized. So,
>> great. Appreciate it. >> Uh the planning commission meets uh uh this coming Thursday in this chamber. Um and one of the things on the agenda is there's going to be recognition for outgoing commissioner um Jim Rothy. So,
um wonderful man and and some great service. So, if you want to come wish him well, I encourage you to do so. >> Also, we have our EDA next Tuesday, 4 o'clock here in the chambers. >> Great. >> Anybody have any general business?
>> Yes, I do um want to bring it to the table that uh we are up for uh evaluation for our city manager. So, I would like to request a performance evaluation for January.
um we do it, we've done it annually. So, um I'd like to request that and then um I'd like to request in the beginning of the year uh to re-evaluate what's going on with the community center and what are we doing? What are the plans? So,
>> all right, >> that's it. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else? >> Um I would just say this coming Friday night is Holly Jolly night out at Casey Lake Park. So, make sure you make your way out there. Um there will be a bonfire, a movie, popcorn, all kinds of stuff going on. Just way good way to
kick off the holiday season. And then Saturday is the holiday hop downtown. So get down and support small businesses in North St. Paul. >> Long as I don't have to hop, I'm in. >> Yep. >> No hopping. >> No hopping. Okay. >> Holiday walk.
>> There we go. I'm in then. Anything, sir? >> Uh again, I would just like to say how proud I am of one of our residents, um Rachel Thompson, for doing the North St. Paul Christmas Tree Project. Um, and I encourage everyone to check it out. Um, it's just an awesome awesome project.
>> Can you give more information about that just for our residents? >> Yep. Uh, so what she does is she finds um local families that are in need um interviews them personally and puts tags on the Christmas tree um for um their wants and needs outside of her house.
Then um people can come by, pull a tag off the Christmas tree, um and then we give them to her and then she presents them all to local families in need and and they're all ones that she's personally um invested in and interviewed. So it it's local community helping local community.
>> Fantastic. Thank you for the explanation. >> That's very nice. Appreciate that. Two things for us. So one is that um our student build home. Thank you for the update on that. But uh we used two pieces of property the last two years that we already owned. So we didn't have
to purchase any properties. But now uh for the next round we we need a property. So if anybody knows of anybody who's you know if there's a spot where a house maybe needs to be removed or if there's a lot where somebody wants to split, if there's anything that anybody can think of for our next student build
home, I would like to just get that out there so we can start uh working. We had a there was one that was going to go into for an auction, but uh at the very end it didn't go. So, we're still on the hunt. So, if anybody knows that, that'd be great. And just another season has
started. We have snow removal. We have different things happening. And uh just want to talk to, you know, just mention to, you know, people as far as the temperament. And you know, we've had some really harsh voicemails lately for as the council, as public works, as as
all of us. So, there's, you know, there's quite a bit of profanity in some of them. And there's just things that uh don't go over well as far as that as far as how we treat people. So, just to have that out there for people if they're talking to people, it'd be great just
to, you know, we'll listen, we're here, but or we don't need to be treated like that. So just a normal just the normal d etiquette we used to have before we lost it about four or five years ago. So we could try to get back to that as a as a
city. We're all up here you know doing volunt not volunteer but a stipen but you know we work hard and so does the the employees and I just if we can just have a civil tongue it would really be nice. I'm sorry. Is that route related to like
>> just in general as the season change, people don't get aren't happy with different things. It's just as as as things happen, we get, you know, people get upset by things. Sometimes it's grass in the summer. It's it's not just that. It's just one more reminder of
that, you know, we're residents together and it's some of them were were really awful as far as to how how we're treated on their voicemail. So, I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but just to know that it it's it's difficult for for
us as a group to, you know, have to go through some of those. So, I appreciate that. Is there anything else? >> No. >> Lawyer, you didn't do a thing this today. >> And thank God for that. >> All righty. Can I call for a German?
>> Some moved. >> So moved. Council member Schwar. >> Second. >> Second. Council member Norby. All those in favor say I. >> I. I December 16th is our next meeting. Thank you everyone. >> Thank you very much.