--------- open up my Give me one second. I forgot to open up my meeting. >> It's going to update now. >> No, I had I had updates. They finally stopped. Thank goodness. He's looking for a thumbs up. >> Just one second.
Okay. Whenever you're ready. There's your thingy dingy. All right. Let's call the workshop for November 18th to order. Roll call, please. >> Council member Woods, >> here. Council member McKenzie >> here. >> Council member Nordby is absent. Council
member Schwear is absent. Mayor Mongi >> here. Thank you very much. May I get a motion to adopt the agenda? >> I'll make a motion. >> So, Council McKenzie second. >> Second. >> Mr. Woods. All those in favor say I. >> I.
>> I. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Mayor. We got uh one topic on the agenda this evening. um through conversations uh throughout this budgeting process with myself and Dan um just some concerns that have come up and some of the things that we've been
talking about um looking for uh priorities uh and what you guys are looking for. Um there's lots of things happening. We have changes coming with the potential state deficit um in looking at our SIP expenses and the
requests that are on them. um trying to roll in the information from the retreat that we had earlier this year and just kind of bring all this stuff together and have a good conversation about uh planning and uh what our fiscal priorities are and what they're going to be. So with that, I will turn it over to
Mr. Winnick, our finance director. >> Uh thank you uh city manager Frandle. Thank you uh mayor and council members. Um tonight we're going to um talk a little bit about uh and try to get some direction from city council on fiscal priorities. Um a lot of the material
that you're going to see is been shown throughout our budget process. Um but I kind of go back to that retreat and then our our last u meeting when we had all the department heads here and we looked at the management action plans that were a result of the retreat. And in that
retreat, and you heard me say it in the in the last workshop on the management action plan, that there really is a different viewpoint from city council members to staff. And you know, and that really in a nutshell is that you know,
city council members have a much bigger vision um for the city of North St. Paul and staff is more concerned of things. I'm I'm going to say more of a day-to-day basis component to it. Um kind of want to hit you with
the impacts of what we're doing and so you clearly understand where we're at. And then I have some activities where there's a number of questions that I need to get from you that'll help us decide
on what we bring back to city council, what type of directions we go um as far as our planning on our capital improvement plans, our operational budgets in the future, and so forth. But I'm going to start off with just a kind of a quick question and I'm going to ask
uh Council Member Woods, did you by chance get your truth in taxation or your proposed 2026 um property tax? >> I did. >> And did it go up about maybe 6% total bottom line? >> Honestly, I did not look at it.
>> Okay. But I just wanted to kind of tell you that I I do have your property taxes, not your your current one because they're not online yet. Um I was kind of hoping that they would be ready today, but I I took your 2022
um and your 2025. And um just kind of want to give some information um that I think is kind of startling. And you know, part of I want to give you this information is because the next meeting we have on December 2nd, we're going to have the truth in taxation. And so by that time, the
residents of North St. Paul should have received their proposed property taxes. We're going to see Ramsey County 9.75% levy increase. We're at 8%. I think the school district's only at about a 2.2%. But for like a median value home, you
know, they're going to see about a 7% um increase in the bottom line of their property taxes. But I want to kind of use yours and and yours is pretty close to the median value of the city of North St. Paul. So in 2021,
the city portion, the tax for the city was $861. your total bottom line was about 3,424 in 2025. And this is including probably another 6% increase that we're going to
see in 2026. But in 2025, the city portion was $1,425. A $564 increase. Over that time period, that results into a 66% increase in your city's property taxes from 2021 to 2025.
the bottom line increased from the 3,400 to 4,400 or $1,32 increase which is a results in a 30% increase overall. So obviously I think those are staggering numbers.
>> Um property uh notices came out. I I got contacted by a resident in the city of North St. Paul. They're on the opposite high end of the spectrum. Um but uh they had an 18% market value increase in
their property and their property is a of a higher value um than our median value increase. The bottom line their property taxes for proposed for 2026 total is going to be increasing 25.5%
from where they were at in 2025. Again, those are staggering numbers and that's kind of what the emphasis of tonight's discussion is really kind of to to to really for us to really know everything. Um,
when we look at kind of provided by this is provided by Ramsey County and we'll also be going over this in our truth and taxation that for the city of North St. Paul, we've got uh the total number of partial parcels are just underneath
3,800. Um that 9.9% should see a decrease or a zero increase in their property taxes. 56 almost 57% will see a 0 to a 10% increase in their property taxes. 27%
will see a 10 to 20% increase in their property taxes. 4.6% will see a 20 to 30% increase in their property taxes. And then the big outlier is a 1.7% will see greater than 30% of a property
tax increase um going into 2026 for the proposed part to it. Now, that isn't all due to just the city of St. Paul and even the city's um property tax levy that you see a 66% change. There were
some different factors that Ramsey County did a little bit differently. Our um economic development authority up until last year was always in the bottom line that would show in property taxes as others. They moved that up to the city's line. The comparison from last
year to this year is accurate at an 8% levy increase which we've shown and what we're proposing at this point in time to to approve in December. Um and then as you're all aware in that whole time frame from 21 to to 2025 there were some
significant market increases but the market increases didn't happen across the board. they hit higher in residential properties and not as much in commercial property which we don't have a lot of anyways. But what that ends up doing is that of what commercial
property we have in comparison to residential. It shifts the tax burden from commercial to the residential. So they get kind of a double whammy that's occurring onto that and that's where you're seeing those big increases. So, I'm going to
leave right there and kind of just say that there's been a lot of impact um for our residents here. And as we go through the information that we've seen before, we're going to be asking for a decent
levy increase year after year after year um for at least the next nine years. Um part of it is it's not your decisions that put us in that position. your decisions have been to try to get us out of where we have been at. And so I don't
want this to be just looked at as a doomsday component. I want you to be aware that it is having an impact on our residents. But there's a lot of positive things that the city council has done in the time that I have been here. We have
developed a very comprehensive capital improvement plan. we are trying the best that we can to be able to afford or to fund that. That's what's really driving our levy increases. It isn't necessarily our our just our
I'm I'm going to say our dayto-day operations in our general fund. If you remember in this year, we're probably only having about a $26,000 increase um in in our in our operations
outside of our personnel um costs. In the time that I've been here, we've added FTEES, we've added a number to our police force, we've added to our fire department, we've added to our public works and so forth. I think right now we
are in a very good position from a you know from a a staff count. Um last year um you know uh our city manager and then it got approved by city council um did a wonderful job of contract negotiations
made sure that we're matching the market to make sure that we're retaining the talent that we have today and that we can attract the talent that we need in the future. Um, all of that's been included. Um, and then planning. We've done an excellent job of planning. Um,
we've put oursel in a better overall financial position with policy changes as far as our fund balance policy where we're in the general fund over 50%. Um, we're going to continue to do that. We saw that that um resulted in an upgrade
in our bond rating from double A to double A+. So, we're seeing a lot of positive things that we have done, but I kind of want to walk you through um the information that's been presented to you before. Um, and we're going to kind of
just look at what our future CIP commitments are, some of the other factors that have been shared. Um, review of the 25 26 city goals. I'm not going to really go through a lot of those. And then there's activities. And the activities are more for us to hear
from you to give us some insight of how we set I guess our direction for department heads. We have to realize that as we come to the conclusion of 25 and we have the 26 budget pretty well all lined up
and it's been presented, we're going to be starting the 27 budget and we're going to be starting the next 10-year capital improvement plan and looking at that. So, we kind of want to be able to set that direction with the understanding of what is city council really looking at and looking for.
And then if time permits, we're going to we're going to have a little example and that we need a little direction so we're all on the same page. So, as we as we looked at our 26 to35 um capital improvement plan and we look at the funding sources, there's a lot of
money that um is being scheduled um to be expended um over $und00 million. And the larger parts of of that are are definitely in your street maintenance. Um it's going to be in your um bonding for for uh streets on your major
reconstruction projects. You're going to see a lot in our facilities and you're going to see a lot um that is that is earmarked into um our parks um system. We have levy amounts that are um
identified um over a 10-year period. But I want to make a note um that the capital improvement plan still needs to be adjusted to avoid cash flow issues or city council needs to approve temporary loans. And then I'll show you an example of of
that a little bit later as you go through this. There's some of these funds that'll end up having cash flow issues, which means we need to adjust some of our projects in in future years, probably outwards, or city council has the authority to do
temporary loans. That isn't something that I ultimately recommend city council do, but you have that authority to do that. And then the other component to it is none of this includes potential for maybe some grant funds that can help
offset that the the ultimate cost or the the net cost that the city would end up having to pay for. But as we went through and looking at this, right now we're we're looking at a year
after year of about a $250,000 increase for street and streets debt debt. Um we're looking at um almost a percent for parks. We're looking at um just under 2% for asset preservation,
which is our facilities. um we take that all together and this year it means about a 6.01% levy. Obviously, as our levy goes up, if we keep those dollar amounts the same, the percentage will go down, but ultimately we're going to be starting pretty close
every year for the next 9 years at a 6%. Not including cost of living increases, not including health insurance costs, not including if there's other items that come up and that we need to be able to fund. Um, and so that's part of where
this these activities are to try to get your sense and feel from you of do we keep adding and adding and adding or do we say hey this is it? This is what our plan is if there's some things that are added or additional to our capital
improvement plan which there will be um life is dynamic. Things continuously change that we need to hear from you. How do we prioritize those? And so it means, hey, if we need extra money over
here, it means where do we get that money from? And then we have to maybe delay something else to be able to do that. Now again another very positive thing that we've done if we look just and I'm
just going to look from from uh pay 24 to pay 26 those are the payable years you know our levy that we have for the city HR and EDA has gone from just under 7.1 million to just about just under 7.2
2. Not a lot. It really hasn't increased in the last 3 years. Yet, the driving factor has been that we've increased um our levy for streets, parks, and facility levies. not because of
decisions that were done by you, but to correct some of those decisions that were done in the past and make sure that we're positioning ourselves to take care of our, I call it, our infrastructure that we've gone from about $250,000 to $1.4 million to be able to afford
those things. So, that's a very positive thing. Yes, it it's had obviously it's had an impact on our residents as far as their property taxes, but as far as the city's position is that we're t starting to take care of the things that we need
to take care of. And we're not the only city that's in this type of a position. And then because of that, if we look at that plan, our capital improvement plan, it's also going to have impact on our our enterprise funds, our water fund,
our wastewater fund, our electric fund. I don't believe our electric fund is going to need to have the 2.25% increase. I think it's going to be very minimal if we're going to need anything um coming up in the in the future years. our surface water is going to be um hit and they're all going to be somewhere in
the range of about 6% annual increases that we're going to end up having to to do and we're going to have to start that in 2027. And then the solid waste fund or garbage collection, you know, that'll um have to be increased. Right now, we're we're drawing down our fund balance. um we're
developing we're almost at the the point of bringing in an RFP um for city council's consideration and get out on the streets where we may end up having a different vendor or maybe it's the same vendor but we'll have a different contract um going
into I think um September 1st of next year. um at that point in time that's when we would adjust the the rate is for the 2027. Um so when we look at this we're going to
be challenged year after year again for the next nine years to hold our levy increases between 8 to 10%. Why? We're starting off with that 6%. We're going to have cost of living. We're going to have insurance increases. We're going to
have operational costs that are increased. So, we're going to have a struggle. It's it's going to be our department heads are going to be um tasked with holding us between 2 to 4% increases um year over year over year.
Some other factors that we had talked about there's been a lot of conversation you know from the this at the state level um that they're projecting you know a deficit going into the bianium of 2028 2029 that'll have an impact um on
us um potentially um it would have an impact on some of the aids that we give that we receive. One of the biggest aids that we receive is a local government aid where we receive, you know, a little over $1.6 million. If there's reductions into that, that means we have to come up
with where do we get that money from um to fill that gap. And then, you know, the federal budget changes. Um, you know, the I think they it was termed the big beautiful bill um did make some major changes to the SNAP program and um
where um tighter um qualifications and restrictions for how long someone can be on the SNAP program. In addition, shifting more to the local level or the state level. Well, if the state's going to have, you know, receive less federal dollars and they're going to have a
budget deficit, they're going to be in a big challenge. They're going to be looking to cut something. And that's going to more than likely be aids that they're giving to local government. Counties are going to be hit hard. Cities are going to be hit hard. Um, and I think that's why you're seeing, you
know, like our our county, Ramsey County, in the past has been holding their increases somewhere 3 4%. Now, you're seeing in the bianium that they're they do a they do a two-year budget cycle. They're looking at 9.75 for this year and I think it's 7 and a
half um for 2027. Why? Because they anticipate and they already could have know the projections of what they're anticipating of cuts in that SNAP program that's going to end up hitting them. Um,
so you know, it's just a question that comes out there and says, "Hey, what happens if we lose a percentage of our local government aid? What is that amount?" And then our question is going to be, "What do we do to adjust to be able to do that?" Now, in the last
legislative session in the Senate, they were actually discussing, well, actually both parties were discussing a reduction in local government aid. Nothing materialized into it. Um, the Senate had proposed about a 3.1%
reduction, which if we look on our our chart would be about $48,000. I think the 3.1 actually comes out to about $50,000 reduction. So, when we look at that, we're going to see that we would have just there another.7%
levy increase just to cover the loss of that local government aid if it were at the 3.1. But if it were higher, you obviously can see what that levy increase potentially could be. Um, and then the question is how do we adjust to
that? Remember, starting a base at 6%. Cost of living, insuranceances, operational costs. We're in that 8 to 10. Throw on top of this now we're pushing ourselves even higher. Do we go even higher? That's the question that comes back um
to city council and trying to get that insight. We've already seen what the impact has been on a you know a median value home from 2021 to 2025 significant. The city goals number three financial stability and
cost management that was in the past. Number four, it's moved up out of this last retreat to number three. Something that's very important. Yes, number one is infrastructure and public safety, but the question is how
do you balance those two? In many ways, there's a lot of conflicts between those two. To appropriately do your infrastructure needs money, but money means I'm inc I'm increasing the levy more and
more. So there's there's competing components that are continuously going through and again that's why I have a series of questions to try to get some insight from city council and some direction.
So now we're going to start some of these activities kind of brainstorming and the first one is and I'm going to give little post-it notes and some pens um and we're going to kind of go through and the first question that's being
asked well I'll stop first of all are there any questions as we've moved to the information through the information that we've at you know to to right now to this point. No, >> I don't think so. I mean, you know,
costs are going up everywhere, so unfortunate. >> I get to walk around. This could be fun. >> What was that guy? The dating game with the big long microphone. What was his name? >> Come on down. >> Barker. >> I'm going to give our city manager one,
too. >> Little Wink Martindale action. Thank you. So the first question that's being posed to you is what are the top five most critical needs facing North St. I'll
give you some time to kind of think about that and then we'll have kind of a we'll share our information and kind of have a little discussion and again this is really for department heads, city manager department heads to kind of get that next level of insight of of what is
city council thinking? And again, we have different viewpoints. So we want to make sure that we can align ourselves in the future with your thoughts, your priorities. I can come up with five things. Maybe I'm just being too
>> I'll take swords from 600. All done. Quite impressive. >> All right. So, who would like to volunteer to kind of share? >> They can go first. >> They can go first. >> I'll go first. I'll do it. Rising costs,
infrastructure, I think, is big. Public safety, of course, just higher bills for our residents overall. And part of it too, I think the biggest that most people are getting hit for right now that adds to is our homeowners insurance that everybody's getting hit with. So that
brings a lot less money for everybody else. So everything's expensive and it's all really stretchy. >> Absolutely. Uh food costs continuously are are rising. Um Yes. And and that's kind of where I wanted to show where the
property taxes have gone because we're a contributing factor to all of that. and um and the future's there there is uncertainty. >> Um if you don't mind, I'd like to take your post-it note after you've shared um because then I'll summarize this
information. Hope >> we can read it and share it with all of our department heads who would like to Very good. Excellent responses. See, that gives us insight to what we need to focus, how we're we're we're going to deliver things in the future, where where we're going to make
adjustments and and adjustments in our capital improvement plans and our operationals. Um, so who would like to go next? >> I can go. >> Council member Woods. >> So, I put uh control, you know, controlling expenses. So, how do we
control the expenses? um kind of along the mine was a little bit more broad than his was very focused um infrastructure maintenance. So maintaining the buildings that we have and making you know catching up on a lot of the maintenance that we've foregone
over the several years and then one thing um responding to the median age of our north St. population. >> You know, uh we are in a position where
a lot of our residents are a lot of our properties are being sold to younger families, you know, >> and so a lot the money, I shouldn't say the ability for
them to afford, you know, increases in taxes and insurance and things like that may not be there. So >> very good. That's a a very good point. And you see it on the opposite side of the spectrum, too. those who are retired
and you're on more of a fixed income. um and you're not going to have a the bigger increases in your earning power um moving in the future. um that were Council Member McKenzie, would you care to share what >> Well, I guess what I would
say like is uh one of our top things is to make sure our city buildings are up to code and everything's up to where they are standardized. Um, then I didn't I wasn't sure how you were addressing this, but I thought our
water tower is probably the most >> critical thing that we need to be budgeting for down the road. And also there's some street projects that are in dire need
and those are ones that have been on the radar and I think we should continue to follow the process that has been in the works already. not without adding any more major projects, but also to
fix the streets that are able to be re black topped or surfaced without digging underground. That's probably one of there's some streets that are in dire need yet that we can continue to work on and that'll
be part of next year's plan. And then the 27 will be up Mo and Chisum and that. >> So at that point then now we're looking at 28 29. So depending on the water tower where that's going to fall in,
do we do a part of a street project in and along that depending on where the water tower falls in now. >> Okay. No. Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. But I think I think we could uh I think
we could uh work out some plans and keep everything going of what they've got that they've had in the past planned on. So kind of kind of what I'm what I'm hearing is that obviously
costs are a big driving factor >> or I'm going to look at it in a little bit different affordability. >> Okay. >> And our infrastructure. I'm hearing that. Mhm. >> Yeah. We fell so far behind over the
years and it's going to take us a while to catch up and we just don't want to keep falling behind. And then I and then I I I I think kind of a a part and I'm going to kind of when we talk about that median age changes in that I think it in a certain
way is it speaking to the point that we need to be cognizant of our services and are we meeting the needs >> of a younger of a younger generation. >> I agree. And an older one, too. Is that
the older one? >> Are we stressing >> finding the right balance, >> right? >> Between our >> Yep. >> And again, this the city's doing a very good job of of trying to plan and to get ahead. You know, when we talk about um
you know, one of the components that we look at is that we do have a lower income community. Um and with rising costs across the board, um people are being hit with insurance, health insurance costs, home
owner, uh home insurance costs, food, you name it. You know, it's not just the property tax component to it. One of the the things um our city manager has set us um on to looking um Ken and myself and we're in the preliminary look at it
is that um started in 2024 and it's continuing now. If you remember that there was a shift in the property taxes where there was an additional 1% that was added to the sales tax in the state of Minnesota. 75% of that or 75 of that
1% increase was going to transportation and the other 25 uh% of that 1% increase was going to um more affordable housing. And so we last year received $85,000. This year will receive $200,000.
And it really needs to be for more of the lowincome um community uh within your uh jurisdiction. So what the city manager has us looking at is that one of the components um that we um see pretty much
on a daily uh daily basis. And I remember when I gave my department update uh uh the first time uh that council member Woods was there, he called me up and asked me to have a meeting with him. And one of the things that he was totally surprised was how
many disconnection notices we end up sending out to our customers. And in our weekly updates, you know, when it comes to billing time, we show that over and over again. And and you know, we'll we're always in the range of 400 or more. And there's always some sort of
disconnection. Now, there's a lot of strict rules that are out there of the cold weather rule and so forth. Again, when you see the cutting of finances coming from the federal government that's hitting the county government where they have a cap program
that helps um you know, individuals of lower income to help with their utility bills. What our city manager has charged us with looking is is that acceptable to use this money to maybe help at a city level to help out with utility payments
for individuals. So, we're looking into that, you know, and I think that kind of addresses Oh, that that was kind of nice. Uh, that kind of addresses that service delivery piece to it that yeah, we realize our costs are going up, but we're trying to come up with other ways
to help all individuals that are within our organization. One other thing too just to kind of elaborate on what we're talking about with expenses and utilities and that you know being the mayor I'm on the the account so they call if there's a some check that
bounces and just like today there was another one and over the three years I've almost been mayor the last six months I've had more in the last six months than I've had of all the years I've been here >> so that just shows the stress we're having where people don't have the in their account that they have. So it it
has ticked up quite a bit. >> It has. It absolutely. And that's where, you know, we're trying to come up with a potential, you know, assistance for that. Not necessarily going to be the full solution. Um but at least maybe we
can try to help that out a little bit. Um because the city does write off um well, you you saw because you passed the delinquent utilities. um and that covers everything except for electric because electric can't um be be put on
delinquent utilities. So that would go onto their property taxes directly. Um and if they don't want if they don't pay for that over time, you know, that'll end up going into foreclosure, so forth, da da da. Um electric, if we can't collect it, we do have a collection
company that we utilize, but we end up writing off um you know, probably about 50,000 or a little bit more than that a year. Um, so you know that's something for everybody to be aware of. Um, next question.
Are the top five most critical needs that you've just identified facing our community addressed in the capital improvement plan? So, this is really to kind of look at what you've said in your concerns and
and I know you're fully aware of them and then you look at our capital improvement plan and I did attach it as a as a document. >> Are we addressing it? Um, I know there was a lot of talk about, you know, the water tower. The water tower is in our plan.
>> Um, we will have a we will have some cash flow issues in the in the the water because of that. It's, you know, a significant, I think, of like a $5 million um project. Um streets, we're covering streets in a number of different manners. Um cost
affordability, obviously that's not necessarily being directly addressed because that's a >> correct. >> Yeah. >> You know, counterpiece to it, but you know, kind of your input on to that. And to me, this is more of a yes.
qualification know where we what are we missing um you know kind of piece to it >> I think we're hitting the big ones that we were that as a group when we were discussing earlier this year that we wanted you know the infrastructure public safety and you know I think we're
touching on all those things that we were discussing >> so I I'm going to I'm again my mind works a little bit differently I think you're all aware of that >> so on a scale of 1 to 10 would you where would you rate that we're meeting our needs as far as our capital improvement
plan to what you've identified as the critical needs for this community. >> I'd say a number two. >> Number one to two. >> Okay. I think we're doing >> I'm I'm going to say 10's the highest. >> Oh, 10's the highest. Oh, the other one. >> I did too. I was like I was going to I
was going to grab Ken and Ken Ken take over. >> I'm doing something wrong. >> So, I think a nine. >> A nine. >> Nine. Yeah, I think we're addressing it pretty well. Been on a good plan.
>> Eight. >> I would say a seven or eight. >> Seven or eight. >> So, we're doing a pretty good job. >> Um, you know, and again, you know, the development of that capital improvement plan goes to our our directors. They're
the ones who are putting that information um in there. And the credit goes to you for your support of us doing that and obviously um supporting the levies that are needed to back that up. One of these times I'll get it get it
right. So, does the 8 to 10% levy increase that I've been talking about because we're going to have that 6% kind of as a base to cover the capital improvement plan that we have and and again, there's still going to be cash
flow issues and things are going to have to be shifted a little bit. And then we're going to have, you know, any operational costs. And really when I'm looking at that 8 to 10, I'm really looking at it from the standpoint is there's not going to be additional FTEEs
added on top of it. Because if we have an additional FTE, you know, with benefits, you know, you're looking at probably 1 and a.5% levy increase just to be able to do that. So this is just basically to cover
our contracts that we currently have, you know, our union contracts, cost of living, our insurance increases, which again are are part of that union negotiation, but we don't control the insurance increases. Um, so it it's any
other operational costs that may end up coming out um onto it. So again, this is more of a what are your thoughts as far as does that 8 to 10% levy increase meet the goal? And I'm going to read the
goal. The goal that you had set was the number three which was the financial stability and cost management. And you were bringing the levy to a more affordable level. Does that 8 to 10 match that?
um re-evaluating contract services to optimize cost, identifying areas to reduce cost and streamline operations, maintaining financial stability while funding key projects. Again, funding key projects, we can keep adding then you're
never going to achieve you're never going to even get to the 8 to 10. But is the 8 to 10 kind of your acceptable range in your mind? Do you want to keep going higher? Do you want us to try to go lower? Again, it's going
to be almost near impossible to get below that 6%. Um, so it's kind of discussion of your thoughts on that process. >> I think going 8 to 10 is pretty safe
because we can manage year after year of what we've got coming down the pike. And if there's a project that we can't afford, we'll just scrub it. until we see fit that it'll work into the pro the process here.
>> Okay, good comments. So, I'm hearing the 8 to 10 is acceptable, but really no more. Depends where the money's at at the time
when we're doing the budget cycle. >> So, explain that a little bit. Well, it depends how how far if we're behind on the state aid and things coming in like that. How are we going to be able to afford a major project
without all our residents becoming angry on us doing more things that we should be? And that's the that's the tough question that's that's there. If we're faced with some reductions in AIDS that d makes us drive up our levy a little
bit higher then here's the question because you mentioned a little bit about this that do we delay a project or if it's a project that has a higher priority which we'll kind of get into
kind of looking at from a categorical standpoint of our CIP. Um, do we I I'll say I have a dollar to spend. That's all I have. >> And does it go here? Does it go here?
Does it go here? And if it's going to cost me $2, then that means I have that $1 I'm going to put there, but I have to get a dollar from somewhere else. So that means something else has >> has to drop off. >> Has to drop off. Um and and so in a in a
certain way what I'm kind of looking at this is that first of all two parts is the 8 to 10% something that's palatable to you >> considering the 6% for the infrastructure and so forth. And then if
it is that kind of your cap you don't want to see it going up above that range. We don't want to see twelves. We don't want to see 14s. We don't want to see 15s. Even if even if even if local government aid gets
dropped off >> big time, >> nobody could predict the future. So you got to keep it within means. >> Okay. And so so you're willing to then not to do something that is a lower
priority to be able to make that happen. So on my part, 8 to 10 is minimal. I think we can get, you know, that's bare bones because we have start out with six, >> right? >> So then it becomes like we said, as things go on, it's going to be what don't you want? So it's going to have to
turn into what don't you want. We kind of did, we kind of went through that cycle with the community center. We knew how much this was. Can we afford it or what are we going to give up for it? And I think that's just the way it's going to be on everything because we don't have unlimited resources. Our taxpayers
can't pay it and we, you know, that type of thing. >> So you're looking at that as really our limit, >> right? >> I think so. >> Both you good with that. >> It's going to be tough. Like you said, you see White Bear, I think they went up 17% or something like that. I can't
remember, but they're >> they've they've had some a couple of big years where they were actually in the in the 20s. I think it was because again public safety uh facility infrastructure >> we got the ladder truck coming. We have a lot of other things where you know you look at your numbers that went by you
got 5 million you got 17 million you got you know 9 million and I mean it was up and down. I mean there really we had a few years 31 and 2031 and another one where they were double digits you know 17 to 19 million. So >> yeah absolutely
>> that takes a lot. Council member Wood's thoughts on this. >> Yeah, given that we're I mean given that 6% is really the baseline that we're starting with. I mean that only gives us two to 4% wiggle room for accomplishing
anything and that's not a lot. >> Agree. >> Means that we're not going to be able to get much done in the way of improvements within the community. Um, well, I should Yeah. So, >> so the 6% is going for really for
>> for the >> Yeah. for the the CIP, which does accomplish quite a bit. >> Yes. Y >> Yeah. >> But so that 2 to 4% just doesn't it's not a lot of wiggle room for
>> as things come up, as projects get prioritized. And we've seen the issues with deferring things for too long >> and we don't want to continue to do that
to future councils, future representatives for the city. Um, we don't want to put them in the same position that we're in. So, >> so you're looking at this also as kind of the limit type of piece to it is >> Yep. Because right now with with the tip
we tiff we have a lot of apartments a lot of things that aren't really going to be paying for many years. So there is a wind you know somewhat of a wind flow you coming through down the road. >> We got to try to hold on and you know there's a lot of money that was spent from the city to get the those developments as far as infrastructure
for us to do roads and things like that. So we put a lot of money out. Now we're going to be quite a while before we start getting it back. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Again, this is underneath the the your goal of financial stability and cost management.
Um, and if you'll write down if you'll list five areas where you would like to see spending reductions >> in reduction. >> Yes. Yes. Please write them down on your post-it notes. >> We got fired. H
>> just joke. How can do? I don't know. >> Do we have to announce these out publicly for >> Yeah. I think I think that's a that's a good change to like. You may not like
it. Yeah, that's that's that you could >> Well, I think you know like you guys have said other departments have have done their spending reductions to their what they need to operate their departments.
As far as our council people, we don't know the everyday day-to-day operations and how much goes through the whole city operations. So for me, I can't say what we need to deduct in spending,
but I think what they've done is cutting back on everything has done a good job. May be able to balance the budget pretty well each year. No, they they definitely they definitely have. You know, I think you've at least
through this year. Um and and it has been in past years too, all the department heads have have come and spoke. Um I I personally don't recall where um maybe with the exception of of one where you've heard any department
head say I need additional staff. So, I'm going to take that to mean that they're pretty comfortable with the staffing levels that they're currently at. Um, we have a great group of department heads. Um, and they do manage it very well and they manage within
their their means. Um, the one that I, you know, I speak to, and I'm not trying to pick on anything, has been police. I think it was the end of last year, they gave a pretty shocking um presentation of where they see out in the future, which is something this city
this size really can't afford. Um but again, we go back to that 8 to 10%. I'm going to tell you there's no way you could ever achieve that what was presented. Um, and so it really comes
down to that we need to look within that and if there's something that needs to be adjusted, something has to give up. We have to be able to give something up. And off the top, I don't know what that is. And that's kind of trying to give your your insights. And I do like what the city manager says is not would like
to see spending reductions tolerate. So I'm just going to throw it out there. And I hope you all say absolutely no way. Get rid of our police department. Contract it out. Hopefully you say no way. >> Absolutely not. >> But I think that's a valuable option.
>> But but what I'm saying is that those are the tough decisions if we can't live within that 8 to 10. If we hear so many residents complaining about the affordability of in the city >> we have and that's that's was kind of
interesting and and I'll I'm not trying to pick on anybody. Did you write did you write anything down? >> I wrote public safety. >> Public safety. Nothing. Nothing. >> I brought the number one. I just >> And and part of the reason why you didn't write anything down is because we don't have fat. >> No. >> No.
>> In in our levy. And so, unfortunately, it would take something drastic. I'm not proposing it. I'm just saying it as part of a conversation that we're having. As long as we can maintain, what I'm hearing from city council is as long as we can maintain in that 8 to 10%
acceptable range, which would be without adding staff, we're okay. If we start adding staff, we're never going to achieve that. And then we're going to have to start looking at some bigger alternatives. You talk other cities, you hear them at conferences and thing talking about doing mergers for certain
things that they can double up on as far as, you know, different different items as far as a city can do where they could team up with another city. You see that quite a bit now. People are talking about that. >> Yep. No, I'm not a big proponent of that because you lose so much of your
identity. Um, and I don't necessarily I I think there can be some quick financial gains. I don't think you gain in the long run >> um with those types of pieces because I mean if you look at cities that have
contracted with Ramsey County um they're continuously getting close to double or not double digit increases on an annual basis for those contracted cities >> and you can't control >> you can't you can't control and um so I'm not I'm not proposing I'm just
saying it was kind of interesting that we didn't come up with a lot of answers >> but it really does force versus at some point in time that you would have to look at this as being something. I'm just going I'm just going to call it a it would have to be something that would be a radical
decision. >> Yeah, for sure. >> And I'm not proposing it. I'm not saying I'm just for the conversation just threw that out there. >> Yep. The one the only thing I raises my eyebrow sometimes is somebody says if we
we get something well we can get it and then you know you know share it with other cities. Well we're the smallest city so we don't have to have the best of this so we can share it with somebody you know we're at the size where you know we'll be the neighbor that
hopefully that you know we can do things but you know be able to share their resources. >> Absolutely. Yep. And that's where I you know I I I think we do benefit from the um Brian, you're going to help me out here. What the term that we have both in our police and our mutual aid. >> Mutual aid.
>> Mutual aid and our electric are our our police, our our fire and and we do we benefit from those and and we help we assist them, too. But there it is very beneficial. >> Oh, definitely. Especially fire and the police. Yeah. >> So, I'm I'm not going to make you ponder
on that one too much more. And so then how can we prepare for future financial challenges? And again, you know, if we if we stay at that 8 to 10%. Um what if we saw a reduction in local
government aid? Um how do we make adjustments to that? Are we willing to postpone, delay, um repprioritize some of our projects,
um that are out there um instead of increasing beyond the 8 to 10%. >> There's are there are some things that can be postponed, but they're saying certain things that happen, you have to do it. So, I mean, that's the type of thing where priority, you know, maybe
have to rep prioritize. We did that with uh some of the streets where um we had a lot of water main issues. So we bumped a couple around to be able to get to that. We you know all of a sudden you got five or six that are breaking in places then you have to think okay well we have to
prioritize some of this stuff and that's the that's where I think the as a city and a staff they've done very well is to understand priorities and be able to shift and be you know instead of saying well now we'll just do both and just you know add on the price. You know, we've had some we've had some residents that
have been very upset cuz their streak got postponed a couple years. >> Yeah. >> Well, they would have they would have been upset if we would have gone through and raised the taxes for more, too. So, I mean, that's the thing. It's, you know, understanding and be able to make those tough decisions and try to live within the budget.
The other thing I I think we also need to be aware be I guess um I guess be aware of is is it viable to spend, you know, $200,000 this
year to fix something knowing that it's only going to buy us, you know, what is the longetivity of whatever money we spend? Do we just knuckle down and spend the, you know, million dollars this year to get it done and get it done right versus just
putting a band-aid on something to get us by >> knowing that we're essentially just wasting that money, you know, short term. >> I think that example was that water and that one street down the way where we were able to tag them on because, you
know, we have to rip it up later. So, yeah, but that's definitely, you know, what's our best bang for our buck, right? I agree. Do it once and do it smart. Looks good. >> That does that kind of cover that? I I
agree with you. Um yeah, we don't want to be doing something and spending, you know, the $200,000 and then two years later we're ripping it up, >> right? um you know if it's going to cost five times that amount but it's going to last
10 times longer that's the wiser choice to it. So in a certain way spend wisely but we really should be doing some sort of like I'm going to call it cost analysis. >> Yeah. >> Cost >> costbenefit analysis. Perfect. Thanks Ken. I'm >> here to help.
>> I know you are. And this is Mike's going over you pretty quick. And one of the components with that costbenefit analysis and I've seen this again I've spent a lot of years in government and one of the things that's always surprised me and is that you
could go and build a brand new facility and no one ever talks about what's the ongoing operational costs are going to be >> and they're always more than the project usually. >> Oh over time. Oh, it it it is what do they I think that what they say is that the building will cost you onetenth of
the costs that it will be for operating that facility over the life of that facility. >> But it's really coming down to that cost benefit and to look at every component to it. Again, I'm not trying to pick on anybody, but it's just like if you add an FTE in the police department, then do
you have to add additional vehicles? Do you have to add additional body cams? Do you have to additional this and that? there's always more costs that are associated with one just move than just an FTE normally. Um place, you know,
space for them to sit if it's an office staff and so forth. So that kind of kind of goes there. So you've you've kind of walked right into that prioritize. So I need you to rank the CIP categories
as to their overall importance. You know, how do you rank? What is one two three? What this does is that yes, when we're faced with those decision, if you want to if you want if we're faced with those decisions that we have that
$1 to spend, how do we spend that $1? >> Um, we need some insight on how we prioritize Ready? >> Who would like to go first? >> I will. >> Okay,
you're number one. Uh buildings facilities. >> Number two, >> streets utilities reconstruction. >> Number three, >> pavement preservation. Utility infrastructure preservation.
>> Number five, >> capital technology. Uh number six is vehicles and equipment. Number seven is ponds, natural resources right now. And then the parks right now
>> is eight. Okay. Thank you very much, Council Member McKenzie. Next. >> Number one, street utility reconstruction. Number two, building facility improvements. Number three, I'm sorry, she'll lean forward. I apologize.
Number three, infrastructure preservation. Number four, >> number three was what? What was that? Which one? >> Utility. I'm sorry. Utility infrastructure preservation. I apologize. I said part of it. Pavement preserv four. >> Five is um capital technology.
>> Six is vehicles. Seven is ponds and eight is parks, playgrounds, and pass open. Open space. >> Council member Woods. Um, utility infrastructure preservation is one.
>> I'm sorry. I'm >> utility. >> Utilities number one. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Number two is streets and utility. >> Okay. >> Number three is pavement preservation. Number four is parks. Number five is building and facility
improvements. Number six is ponds. Right in the middle there. Seven is capital technology and eight is vehicles and equipment. When we kind of look at this, I think we
see our streets and utility, you know, meaning the the water, the waste water and so forth. So far uh fourth is is probably our highest. Um, quickly looking at it, I think our
utility is number two, >> building and facility improvements. >> I think they're tied >> toss between that and pavement preservation. And then I think pavement preservation comes in number four
kind of looking at that which is kind of encouraging from the standpoint is that we're levying for building and facilities to take care of our needs there. Both pavement preservation and street
and utility are locked together on the same type of plan. So we're levying for those. And then this is your utility infrastructure is really coming from our u enterprise funds themselves. So the only one that we have dedicated some
levy forth is this one and that's unfortunately tied with last is like a three-way tie for I think this
is 20. This is 20 and this is 20. And so it ranks kind of the the lowest yet we're dedicating levy towards that
parks and open space piece to it. So that may be something for future conversations and considerations that we may end up doing. And that and I think that comes from our our discussions that we've had um already tonight where that if we have a project and that there's
some sort of a cost overrun that we would end up maybe dipping into the parks or delaying something on the park side to it. Just a just a thought. And then the last question for the night and we're going to end it up here
because we've got a a lot of young um talented individuals coming up next which is always fun. Uh what do you need from staff to help you make decisions? Anyone want to take a moment and just kind of write down some thoughts?
Are you really asking them how can we help you help or how can I how can we help you >> just make more better communicating with us? I think staff involvement in the retreat
that we had in the spring was huge. >> 100%. Yeah. >> So, continuation with the Absolutely. staff involvement in the retreat. >> Yep. >> Yeah. It was it was great having him with us. >> And then taking that another step further is continued and I think the
city manager does a good job of this bringing in you know during our workshops and I shouldn't say just the city manager all of you guys do a great job of this bringing in um the different department heads periodically to just give us an update. You know what's going on in the department? what you know what
don't we know about that's priority for that's a priority for you that we can assist with >> so I agree and they give us honest upfront you know the good the bad and the ugly you know that's what I really like is you know what there's going to
be problems let's hit them head on you know don't tell us what we want to hear tell us what we need to hear and it's better to know about it ahead of time than after the fact >> yes >> it's easier to address them proactively.
>> Mhm. >> Don't sugar. >> No. >> It is what it is. Let's deal with it. >> One one of the things that I've talked to Jenny, I'm not putting Jenny on the spot because she told me I can't put her on the spot anymore. But, uh, what I've talked to her about is that when you see
a city council item, I I would like to have she's checking out to see if I if we can get a section in there, um, just like you see recommendations and so forth that there would have an item about financial impact. Um, reason for that is to be able to
say, and it can be as simple response as it's in included in the operating budget >> 100% >> or it's included in the CIP and it was approved at this amount >> or neutral. type of piece. Here's the reason for that. And I again, I'm not picking on things. I'm just trying to use examples so you kind of understand
where I'm coming from, too. >> That uh recently um there was presented the 2026 um uh pavement preservation um to do the next design phase and one
of the components that was there is that the water part of it is going to is be higher than we had estimated. Okay. I agree with your decision and it was presented very well to you. But here's a piece that was missing to that is that
yes, absolutely I would do that because the water component because we needed to replace some of the water main. But here's the piece that was missing for you to make that decision. Do you know what that financial impact will be? because it will have an impact on that
rate for the water because it's higher than what we have in the financial plan. And that's where the piece to it is if we can give you that information up ahead of time. And that's where this dialogue tonight was very important because what it can also be is
that working with the city manager, I can say, "Hey, based upon some of the prioritization, we need to move money from A to B and delay this other thing." So it's not having an overall impact on on what you vision as far as getting
done. Um so that's kind of one thing that that you have come up with is that trying to give you a little bit more information um so when you're making those those decisions that you're actually seeing that financial impact upfront when you're making the decision. So
>> great. Yeah. >> So makes sense. That concludes we're not going to get to the the exercise um tonight and kind of looking at uh the thing I'm going to leave with two two different pieces later on tonight. Um you're going to see and and uh I think a
presentation from Motorola um talking about body cams and stuff. It's much needed. Um it's something that's desperately needed in the city. um you know uh we we have come with a funding source
that'll be there because we paid off the bonds earlier in this year in February um for uh the public works facility. Um so we have money left over in that debt service fund which we have the right to transfer and so um it's proposed to be funded by transferring that. Another
good piece to that is that if we pay for it all up in front over instead of paying it over the five years, um we will get a return of a little over 4% present value um on our money. Um so it kind of allows us to save a few bucks
over over time which right now you struggle to find a 4% in how government can can invest uh funds. So I think it's a it's a really good deal and it's needed. I think before the end of the year, we've had a number of conversations about it. You're going to
see the fire department come in and ask for the potential of moving up the schedule on buying the ladder truck. Um he's done his due diligence. He's going to come in somewhere um all all total with um all the uh accessories that are
needed for uh outfitting the new rig. I think he's going to come somewhere at about $1,775,000. It's on the CIP out I think about two or three more years at 2 million. >> So I think he's going to come in um with that. If you decide not to move forward
with that, even as of the first of the year, that price would go up four and a half% which I think we um the fire chief and myself looked at it, you know, I think it it ended up amounting to like about 60some thousand that there would be an increase into that and you can
anticipate that those increases will be continuously happening. So that'll be an item that'll be brought forth with you and it's been on our capital improvement plan. it just needs to be moved up and um there are funds in the equipment fund to be able to cover that earlier than
than later. Um so those are special items to it. I'm going to conclude with I thank you very much for the honest and open. I think it gives us a lot of direction. I'm going to make uh leave these up. I'll pull these tomorrow um and start to summarize them and and uh get them out to um I'll sit down with um
our city manager and then we'll get them out to our department heads. um it kind of sets our direction and prioritization uh for the future. So I thank you very much for your honest feedback um and um always a pleasure. >> Thank you very much for everything. Appreciate it. >> Thank you Dan. >> Thanks Dan.
>> I'll have a motion to adjourn. So move. >> So move. Council member Woods. Second. Second. Council member McKenzie. All those in favor say I. I. Give us five minutes and then we'll start the meeting. Part: 2
There you go. Call the meeting to order. Thank you very much. Stand for the pledge of allegiance. Can all the students come up in the front and stand here with us? All come on up front. Stand up front with you. Come on up. Come on up front. We'll all do the pledge of allegiance together
up here. All the students Well, there's a lot of extra kids back there, too. >> Yeah. Come on back. Come on, guys. Everybody up. >> There you go. >> Are we ready? >> All right. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and
to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Amen. >> All right. Thanks, G. A roll call, please. Council member Woods >> here. Council member McKenzie
>> here. >> Council member Nordby is absent. Council member Schwar is absent. Mayor Maggi >> here. I have a motion to adopt the agenda, please. >> So moved. >> So moved. >> I'll second. >> Second. Council Mackenzie. All those in favor say >> I. I. >> Thank you very much. Presentations. >> First up tonight, we always look forward
to this is our uh fire prevention poster awards. I'll turn that over to Chief Melinger. >> Thank you. Thank you, mayor. Thank you, council members, and welcome everybody to uh the North St. Paul City Hall, where we're going to honor our students
for this year's uh hard work in uh teaching uh fire prevention uh safety. Um this is Fire Marshal Brent Fixon. He's the one who was out in all the schools this year along with a few other firefighters and staff members that was
uh doing all this hard work and talking about this. I'm just going to kind of read through uh the theme and then we'll get through uh uh doing our awards for everybody. So, every year the fire department works hard uh for fire safety. This year's poster comp uh
contest campaign, sprinkle your home for a fire safe zone, works to educate the community about extra steps we can take to keep us safe and protected in our homes. Our department has also been educating the community on NFPA's theme
for this year, which is charge into fire safety, which is regarding lithium ion batteries in your home. This year's focus on lithium ion batteries works to better educate the public on how to buy, charge, and dispose of them safely. Most
of the electronics in our homes, smartphones, tablets, power, and lawn tools, laptops, headphones, and toys, just to name a few, are powered by lithium ion batteries. If not used properly or correctly, they can uh
overheat and start a fire and explode. Charge into safety. lithium ion batteries in your home provides us the information, guidance, and resources needed to use lithium ion batteries with caution. Um, if you're looking for more information, you can go to the fire
department's website. We have a lot of information on lithium ion batteries and what to do. Fire Marshall Fixen and our assistant chief uh Johnson, Lieutenant Foster, and other staff members talked about how it's important for everyone to plan and practice testing our smoke
alarms and planning a few home uh fire escapes. Uh we all need to be prepared in advance so that they know what to do when the smoke alarm sounds. Given that every home is different, every home fire escape plan will also be different, have
a plan that fits for your home. Some of the other facts we talked about, uh, smoke alarms should be installed on inside every sleeping room and outside each separate sleeping area and on every level of your home. Smoke alarms are
interconnected are preferred. And so once one sounds, they all sound. Know at least two ways out of every room. If possible, make sure all doors and windows operate easily and correctly. and make sure the the kiddos know how to
open and close them too. Have an outside meeting uh place a safe diff distance away from your home where everyone should meet and practice your home drill uh fire fire drill at least twice a year with everyone in the household including
guests. Practice at least once during the daylight and at night during fire prevention week. The fire department works with local elementary schools and spends roughly 30 hours with over 1100 students teaching them about fire safety and prevention. Again, our
goal is to make a lasting impact on these young students to learn how to prevent fire in their homes and to be safe. This year's fire prevention poster contest had over 500 entries, and the rules are simple and clear. The contest is open to all students attending an
elementary school um in North St. uh in the grades of kindergarten through fifth grade. The theme for the poster, which must be on the poster, uh is sprinkle your home for a fires safe zone. And all posters must be original.
Three categories, uh kindergarten and first grade, uh second grade and third grade, and the third category, fourth grade, and fifth grade. Each category has three winners. First place, second place, and third place. All winners will
have all first place winners will have their um posters entered into the Minnesota State Fire Chiefs Association Fire Prevention Poster Contest where they will go up against other students across the state of Minnesota for additional uh
prizes, cash prizes, and have their poster featured in the Minnesota State Fire Chief's magazine. Um, and in the past we've been very fortunate to have winners at the state level. So, good luck to our first place uh winners here tonight. So, now we'll go through the
process of uh presenting our winners in the 2025 North St. Paul Fire Prevention Poster Contest. And we're going to start uh with kindergarten and first grade. >> Let me know when you're ready. >> First.
>> Yeah. Oh, in third place from Cowan Elementary, Natalia Brown. Natalia, are you here? Okay. Second place from Christ Lutheran,
Josie Bowmeister. Come on up. Here's your check. Don't spend it all in one. >> We'll have um all the students when they're done as a group come back up as well. But Josie, smile good. >> That's right.
>> All right. Congratulations, Josie. In first place, also from Christ Lutheran, James Gerky. Come on up, James. >> That's you. There you go.
>> Congratulations, James. Our next category, second grade and third grade. In third place, let Brent get >> I'm ready. >> All right. From St. Peter, Jack Banick.
>> Congratulations, Jack. >> Uh oh. Don't want to lose that. In second place from Christ Lutheran, Pearl Evan. >> You are welcome. >> Congratulations, Pearl.
And in first place from Christ Lutheran, Reese Jensen. Congratulations. >> All right, in our last category, fourth grade and fifth grade, third place from Christ Lutheran,
McKenzie Danahghue. Good job. We like We like repeats. >> In second place from St. Peter, Kalissa Calvin. >> Congratulations. All right. In first place from Cow, hope I say it correctly. Jeantiel Rodriguez
Gonzalez. Oh, dang. Not here. >> I wanted to say that name. >> Yeah. >> Well, congratulations to our winners that are here. If you all want to come up, we're going to grab a group photo. >> We'll come down with you, too.
Are we going >> Thanks everybody. Yeah. First. Well, the first place ones they last year they changed it. Now you can do up to three. So all three. >> Oh, really? >> Did you Okay. So
>> if you want Yeah. >> will take the top everybody. I will send in the state and they go through them and then they pick their winners and then you have a chance at contag >> and they'll send them back.
>> Yep. >> Yep. down below your chin. Below your Put your face down. Thank you. >> Great job. >> Hey, you're welcome.
I mean, >> thanks everyone for coming. >> Thank you. >> Hi, kids. >> Congratulations everybody. >> It's the highlight of our year. >> Thanks everyone. >> Thank you. >> Yep. I don't think we got enough pizza to make happen stay. They probably would
have to be bribed. >> All right, we'll work on to our next part consent agenda. Can I >> Thank you, mayor. Um, first up, item A, October 21st, 2025, city council and HRE
meeting minutes. Item B, general claims of $2,85,34.37. Item C, HR claims of $58110. Item D, public works surplus item, the 1998 craft trailer. Item E, acceptance of snow removal contract. Item F, East
Metro Public Safety Training Facility, JPA, updated in 2025. Uh, 2026, employee health and dental insurance provider continuation. Item H, special event permit for the holiday hop. Item I, city hall closure for
employee recognition event. Uh, item J, resolution accepting donations for October of 2025. Item K, permit building permits for October of 2025. Item L, authorized application for Metropolitan Council Environmental
Services 2026 private property um ini grant program. in item Metropolitan Council and Environmental Services for 2023 municipal inflow and infiltration grant program agreement. >> Thank you very much. Would any member
like to pull any at this time? If not, can I have a motion? >> So moved. >> So moved. Council member Woods. >> I'll second. >> Second. Council member McKenzie. All those in favor say I. >> I. Thank you very much. Uh I didn't get any slips, so I don't think we have anything open to the
public. So, we're on to the next >> city business action items and recommendations. Uh, first up is a zoning ordinance and text amendments. We have a community development director here, Ken Roberts. Turn it over to you, Ken. >> They're excited.
>> Yes. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, see Measure Frannle for the introduction. Before you tonight, this evening, we have two sets of zoning ordinance text amendments. These are a continuation of the work we've been doing with the
planning commission the last few months to improve, streamline, clarify parts of the zoning code. The first sections or first proposals are to clarify and add
add clarifying language to the definitions of the residential uh units that we include in the definitions of the zoning code. So for example, go to it's page 101 in the packet and
there there are several minor changes we're proposing uh dwelling or single family dwelling or dwelling single family proposing to make clear that it's to be occupied by one family for living per living purposes.
Second one, dwelling town houses. We're adding language that each dwelling unit must have separate building service utilities as required by the state building code. We add a note there. A two-unit townhouse, sometimes referred
to as a twin home dwelling, two family. We're adding again language in there that is for living purposes and that these structures are sometimes referred to as duplexes. And then lastly, dwelling multiple
family. Uh we're adding in the terms that it' be for three or more separate dwelling units, each intended for residential occupancy by different families. And the additional terms and words for each of
these uh were brought in from the state building code and other Yeah. the Minnesota building code and state statutes. So the goal here and the end result will all these
definitions will be consistent again with state statute and Minnesota building code to kind of a belts and suspenders uh effort to make sure they are all consistent with those other uh guiding
documents or legal documents that we have to follow. So that's the first set and I guess I'll stop there if there are any questions. I should say too, I jumped ahead. My apologies. Plan commission reviewed this both in October and November, had some comments at both
meetings and are recommending approval of this and the other changes I will get to in a moment, but uh they were helpful as they always are in this process. So, any questions on this first part? >> Just clarification is all we're doing.
>> Correct. >> Yep. >> All right. Then the second part is again some clarification, some additional words for our mixeduse zoning districts. Uh again these were just part of things
that we found both staff and plane commission going through our mixeduse zoning districts and there are three of those that needed some cleanup. So for example on page 101 they used to say downtown core district and corridor
highway district. Well, the zoning code says downtown mixeduse district and corridor mixeduse district. So, that's one change again to be consistent with how they're in the code. Uh, and then in
each district, so starting with the MU1, the downtown mixed district, mixed use district, we're adding a D there to say as part of the purposes and goals to allow or encourage development and redevelopment
that will maintain a sense of the city's heritage. That's the biggest change in the MU1 and the MU2. Our big the biggest change we're proposing there is to add
in the use table which is at the bottom of the page of 102 the potential to have multiple family residential development in that district but only through a PU uh approval of a
PUD by the city council. Right now multiple family are not allowed in that district. They're only allowed in the MU3. So by adding those as a potential use in the MU2, we're expanding the potential obviously the potential uses that could occur
there and maybe that will generate more residential development in some areas that weren't thought of as possibilities in the future. The last set of changes >> do you just to be clear if everybody's
listening am the two where is that? Can you be a little bit more specific for people that maybe didn't look this over? >> Yeah, the Pine Tree Center on Century Division is one area
>> and there's some areas gosh they're scattered about. There's a few along 7th not it's probably 10% of the whole city. Okay. It's not >> 11th around 11th. There's some over there too I think. >> I believe that's correct. I I should
have had the zoning. >> Yeah. Just so that will bring us more opportunities to be able to do different things. Correct. >> And so if somebody wanted to put anything up where there's multiple >> Yeah. That adds another possibility. >> Yes. And then lastly for the corridor
mixeduse district which is the MBU3 and that's the our prior largest commercial industrial zones adding in uh D provide more flexibility in the redevelopment of existing commercial centers and the
development of vacant sites. And I should qualify all these were terms and words that are used in our 2040 comprehensive plan. That's was the genesis of this again to make sure our zoning district uses and goals and
purposes align with the current comprehensive plan. Now, we'll be starting an update to that in the next few months. My expectation so far is I don't foresee major changes to those. But again, this
makes it really clear that we want our zoning districts to be and the uses consistent with what is outlined in the comprehensive plan. So again, that was the reason for these changes. So overall, that's uh our staff
recommendation again based on this report and the plan commission's input. And so there's an ordinance for you in the packet uh that starts on page 105 that outlines all these changes and it's staff's recommendation that the
council uh move adoption of of approval of the ordinance as prepared. >> Can I get a motion for that? >> So moved. >> So moved. Council member Wood. Second. Council member McKenzie. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Thank you you and the planning
commission for all the work. Thank you on that. >> Right on into the >> item B, the repeal taxi cabin. >> I haven't seen one in a while. >> Been a while. >> And again, I want to give a a full credit to Sarah on this. She was
starting, we were starting to review the fee schedule and she said, "Huh, we have a fee schedule or a fee in the fee schedule for taxi cabs. When was the last time there was a taxi cab in North Dor St. Paul? We started digging into it. It looks like the last
time this chapter of the code, which is 115 was looked at was 1989. >> And I think as everyone is well aware, the uh use of ride or app based ride share services
is the taxi cab business has just changed especially in the suburbs. And so our proposal is to completely delete chapter 115 of the code. We'll just reserve it for some future use. And it's it's not to say that someone can't call
a taxi and get a ride if they choose or be dropped off of the taxi. It's more eliminating the need that for example they want to have a taxi cab base here or we even in the code says they are to have insurance and have a license from the city. We're we're not doing that. I
don't foresee we would ever do that. So, we're just proposing to take that out of the code and uh just not even talk about taxi cabs in in the city code because we are not going to regulate them. So, our proposal is to adopt the ordinance that
repeals chapter 115 of the code. >> Sounds good. Any questions? Anybody? >> No. >> Oh, if not motion, please. >> So moved. >> So move. Council member McKenzie. Second. Woods. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Thank you very much.
>> Thanks, Ken. All right. Next item up is item C, the 7th Avenue street utility improvement project. This is approved change order number two. I have city engineer Morgan Dolly here. >> Hello there. >> Thank you. Hello, Mr. Mayor, members of the council. So, this uh next item
before you is kind of a housekeeping item. Uh this is for the 2023 7th Avenue street and utility improvement project. You may recall that improved uh our concrete roadways on 7th Avenue from um uh about the post office uh west to
about first street and then portions of Helen as well. It was all constructed reconstructed in coordination with the redevelopment of the Lily building article 7 building. Um and that project by work by the contractor has essentially been done for a year. Um but
we've been waiting on some minor punch list work and satisfaction of some other minor contractual requirements like um providing the right kind of closeout paperwork for um for my staff to be able to say that it's ready to bring forward to council. And this next item is one of
those pieces. So, it's important for the final dollar amount within the cont within the work completed to match exactly the um the the dollar value of the uh contract amount. And so, contract amounts are only
adjustable by way of change order. Uh there was a change order on this project earlier on. We did have a a higher volume of contaminated material that was discovered as they were regraining the road. You may recall that. Um and so that change order contemplated um some of those extra work items. This one
there's there was some pluses, there were some minuses. So the you know we kind of tallied them all up. They all go into the change order. The uh essential net change here is u just over $42,000. And some of the major categories in
terms of the the pluses were um additional paving in the Fourth Avenue alley, additional paving for extension of utilities in the Sila Boulevard intersection, um some uh I guess a slightly larger uh quantity of concrete
driveway pavement than we originally uh estimated and some additional non- metallic conduit that's usually used for under roadway utility crossings like it could have been electrical or telecommunications or whatever. So, as we're we're rebuilding the road, um or it could be for irrigation, too. We're
putting those conduits in to protect the future infrastructure, um should those things be uh need to be installed across the roadway, uh intersections. So, um uh the change order has been calculated, uh prepared, presented to the contractor.
The contractor has sign it, signed it. I'm here in front of the council presenting it with a recommendation for approval to get everything lined up with uh the contract amount and then the ultimate um uh and dollar value of the work completed. And I guess one other
following note, if there's u we did cover this with the change order number one, but there's ample space left in the authorized uh value for the total project cost for this project. So, even though this is increasing the contract amount by $40,000,
um you may recall there was a scope reduction. We had an original bid in 2022 and the bids came in high. We took out a portion of Fourth Avenue and reduced some of the scope with the project and rebid it. So, there's actually a delta. We're under the the
total project um amount for the overall bond project by actually about $2 million. So, there's plenty of contingency available here. Um, no major concerns with this adjustment of $40,000 or approximately $40,000 with the change order. And so recommendation is to
approve change order number two for the 7th Avenue street and utility improvement project. And I'll stand for any questions the council might have before taking action. >> I don't really have a question. This has all been passed before my time here. Um,
and the work has been satisfactory completed. >> Correct. We did have uh one wrinkle. It wasn't really the fault of the contractor, but there was some damage to the mainline pavement, concrete pavement caused by um crane placement and the and
the article 7 construction. And so that was something that that developer and that contractor took on on as their responsibility. It didn't cost the city any money. And actually the same contractor that we had used for the concrete paving prepared um conducted the repairs. And so that was all done
earlier in the year and was accepted by the city and and uh we're happy with the results there. But other than that, everything else is uh to the satisfaction of public works and my staff as well too from an inspection standpoint. >> Yeah, looks good over in front of
article 7. Anyway, so >> any questions? If not, can I have a motion for the change order number two? >> So moved. >> So moved. Council member McKenzie. >> Second. >> Second. Council member Woods. All those in favor say I. I >> I >> thank you. >> Next up is item D, which is the 7th
Avenue Street utility improvement project um for accept a project and approve final payment. Back to you, Morgan. >> Mr. Mayor, members of the council. So, now that change order number two was uh approved and is now a part of the contract, now the uh contract can be
final. And so all of the appropriate documentation, bonds for warranty work, um consent of shity for final payment, uh lean waiverss and um IC134s, which is a tax thing, but very important that we collect those. So those are all in hand.
Um the final payment in the amount of $113,432.58 is pretty much I think just releasing of the retainage that if we hold back 5% or whatever it was 2.5% there might have been some minor adjustments within that change order again. Uh but everything's been agreed to by the contractor, sign
off by the contractor. Again, work accepted work has been accepted uh as satisfactory and um I'm here to and there is this is by resolution, I believe. Uh yes, we do final payments by resolution. So the action for council is
to uh adopt a resolution approving this final pay voucher number eight uh for Eureka Construction and we will close out the project and the contract from here on out. >> Very nice. Any questions on that? >> Nope. >> Nope. >> All right. I have a motion. >> So moved.
>> So moved. Council member Woods. >> I'll second it. >> Second. Council member McKenzie. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Thank you. Thanks for the hard work on this project. >> Thank you. >> Everything looks really good. >> Thank you, council. Yep. >> Thank you, Morgan. >> All right. Last item up on our city
business action items um is approval and purchase of 12 M500 incar camera systems and 25V700 bodywn cameras. Before we take a vote, we have Sergeant Badawitch here with I believe a couple representatives from uh
Motorola. >> Welcome everyone. Good evening. Sure. >> Thank you. All right. Thank you. Afternoon, mayor, city council members, uh, city manager
Frannle. Uh, Sergeant Ben Badawitch here from the police department. uh here to present the uh hopefully purchase agreement with uh or contract with uh Motorola for incar um squad cameras and also the bodyworn camera. With me is uh
Nate Kinsey uh from Motorola and Jesse Richardson from Metro Inet to help. Uh Nate's got a presentation too that's included in here and Jesse's here to help any answer any IT questions. Uh currently we have the company is IPro
also known with uh the software is the UD UDE program. Uh squad cameras were first installed over 20 years ago and we implemented body cameras in about 2021. There was a major system update with uh
the UD and the new software in 2022. Uh challenges with the current system. Uh first off, the contract with IPRO uh expires in mid 2026. Um over the last few years, we've had
chronic issues with the UDE system uh such as video classification doesn't necessarily transfer all the time from the squad car to the server system. Um the video uploads fail weekly. Uh we had to then submit a ticket with Metro Inet
and they have to then go in and and restart the system. Uh I pro has a small customer base means uh local install local installers are are unfamiliar with software um which is a
problem. It a lot of squad downtime because they're continuous issues. Uh bodywork cameras and the squad videos they don't necessarily link. Um the system is designed for once you get into the squad car um the body warn camera is supposed to be activated at the same
time as the squad car is. Um that does not happen on a continuous basis reliable basis. Uh the poor software leads to delays in officer patrol duties. Uh a lot of officers are spending a significant amount of time in
uh in the police department making sure that the videos are classified the way that they're supposed to be classified. and the videos are actually uploaded like they're supposed to. Uh we have we are unaware of any future progressive
progressing software um that UDE or IPRO is going to present to us um to fix some of these bugs that we are continuously having. Uh the redaction software is also poor quality. uh the officers or detectives that have to do the redaction
for public data requests um are almost have to go frame by frame. I when we talk about redaction we're talking about blurring people's faces out any type of uh digital evidence too. Uh and then the retention dates do do not work. What we're seeing is is that there's a high
increase. The system is supposed to be designed that when the video reaches its uh retention date, it then deletes off the server and we are going back and when we're doing audits, we're finding that some of these videos are still um or well, they're not being deleted like they're supposed to, which is creating
more um server space. Uh with that said, I'm going to turn it over to to Nate. You want to sit here? Sure. Yeah. Thank you. Good evening. Uh, nice to see you again.
>> Um, all right. So, uh, here to introduce me, Nate Kinsey. Um, I'm the local sales rep for all things video and LPR for Motorola. I've been in this role for about four years. I was in law enforcement for 16 years locally before that. So, I'm not a smooth sales guy.
I'm just a just a cop, right? It's got a sales job. So, uh, bear with me here. Um, so we're going to talk about all the pieces of this. And this is going to be really brief. There just a few slides here that we'll talk about. One thing I wanted to mention is that at Motorola, everybody knows the name, right, for
radios. Um, but since 2011, uh, their sole purpose or focus has been, uh, public safety. So, they're still Motorola cell phones, but they're owned by another company. Uh, Motorola just focuses on public safety from the entire ecosystem. Uh, obviously what we're talking about here is a small portion of
that ecosystem, but that's we're focused on here. Motorola has been around almost a hundred years. There's Motorola is not going anywhere. So you don't ever have to worry about that. I'm sorry. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Um so we'll talk first about the body camera. Um
it's very simple to use. It's very durable. Um it's cop proof is what I like to say. It's it's very similar version that that I used on the street when we were using this. Um swappable battery so you don't have to worry about your camera dying while you're in the
middle of a shift. Um very simple to use. There's three buttons and then the power button on the bottom. Um, it's configurable. There's Bluetooth and Wi-Fi connection so it can connect to the car. It can connect to uh a cell phone uh app. Um, very very simple to
use and uh and which is what cops really like, right? Because it's it's not complicated. So, there's no real uh resistance to using it. Uh, the in-car system again very simple and easy to
use. This is a design that's been um tweaked a little bit, but it's kind of the same design for the last 10 12 years. Um nice touchscreen in the car to be able to tag your videos. It'll anything you do in the car will transfer to the body camera so the officers don't
have to tag in two different places. It's not tied directly to the squad laptop. So if if that laptop goes down or they have to reboot it, the system is still running. So you're never you're never in danger of losing a recording. um very high quality. Uh 1080p is the uh
the top recording um resolution that we offer. Above 1080p gets into the range. It's better than the human eye can see. So that's where we cap it at. Um but very easy to tag videos, very easy to um to operate the system. Um there's additional cameras on that screen. Um
what we're talking about is the two on the left right here that'll be included in this in this proposal that we have here. So, front-facing camera and back seat camera um in the passenger compartment. Um the front-facing camera is also um
LPR equipped. So, um really really good scans during the day. License plate recognition is is LPR. So, as the officers are driving around, they're going to be getting scans and it's bounced off of the BCA hot list that they send out twice a day. Um, so
we'll be able to get stolen autos, uh, warrants, wanted persons, silver alerts, all all of those things right to the squad laptop without officers having to type in the plates. Uh, kind of the traditional way of doing it. So all those come in real time and and all of this that we're talking about is
cloud-based. So everything is everything in the cloud. There's no server that you have to worry about maintaining any further. Uh, the back end is really really streamlined, very userfriendly. Um it it's called DEMS command central DEMS
within the back end is um the uh device management all the videos. So when officer logs in he's going to see his or her videos from newest to oldest top to bottom. Um they'll sync with the body camera and the incar and if there are other officers on scene it'll sync with those videos as well. So they're able to
view those all sort of together and in in uh paired up. Um it's also got AI um management tools. The AI is sort of in the background assisting all of the uh all of the processes like the redaction
um which is extremely fast and and easy to use. Um report writing um you name it, this backend does all of it. Uh very easy to use. It's going to save a lot of time. It's very efficient. uh transcriptions. You can bring in 911
calls into here and transcribe the 911 calls. It it can really do anything you can think of as far as a backend, anything that you would want. Uh for interview rooms, it uses the incar system, which is the M500, but it
uses um interview room specific cameras. So those two on the right there are the two, a dome camera and a pinhole camera for an interview room specific solution. Uh we have these out in the wild right now in police departments and sheriff's offices and they're working great. Um again very easy to use for the officers
because it's very similar to the INC car. Uh and the command central is uh to simplify it. It's the live streaming portion of of of this proposal. So, um,
with this feature, supervisors would be able to live view into their officers body cameras and incar cameras to be able to view in real time uh, what their officers are dealing with at any given time uh, while on a call. Uh, there's also mapping features.
The LPR scans can come into the map. Uh, you can tie this in with your with your CAD system. So, your CAD calls could be in here. There's a lot more that this can do, but again to to sort of simplify what aware is is it's live location and streaming of all of the devices and
radios. That's those are my sides. Ben, do you want me to talk about anything else? >> Uh, I think that's good. Unless Do you have >> Do you folks have any questions directly? >> Um, >> Impressive. >> I might have one. I saw you guys had cameras that hang off of buildings,
right? >> Mhm. Yes. >> I don't I we've I've never tal I didn't know what our city has. Could if we are ever looking for an upgrade on our camera system throughout our city, is this something we could tap into?
>> Yes, sir. Absolutely. >> Where we could get a reduction price cost, make it a whole ball ball wax deal? >> Uh potentially. the the the fixed video portion is is a little longer of a process >> um because of you know site limitations
and and things like that but but yeah there Motorola does fix video as well and with the aware portion which was the previous slide we can actually bring in um not just bring in and live view not just the body camera and incar video but
also fixed video. So, if you had fixed video >> around the building, >> building, you could live stream that into here as well. >> Yeah. >> Cool. >> Great question. >> Thank you. >> Yep. And I I know this isn't really show and tell, but I do have one of the body cameras if you guys would >> I would love to see one. Yeah,
I'm just trying to save money. >> I do have some questions, but I think they kind of tie into more of the project itself. Um, so I can wait on those if you want or I can ask them now if you want. >> Uh, it's up to you.
>> Okay. Well, I'll just go ahead and ask. Um, so have we completed any kind of a proof of concept or anything like that with the equipment? >> What >> I mean, have we had some people like test it out? Have we had people trying it out? >> Yeah. So, we before uh before or part of
the process with going with with Motorola, we spoke with neighboring agencies, Oakdale, Mountains View, Wiper Lake. Uh they are completely satisfied with with the product and so satisfied that uh all three of those departments have have resigned um an an agreement
with them to extend their contract. I think I just started recording something. Sorry. Um so so we haven't had any of our officers actually try any of the equipment or anything to >> Correct. >> Okay. Um, so then what kind of training
would have to be done or is available for our officers to make sure that or maybe equipment like this is generic enough across the board that they can that they know what they're doing, but >> it it's somewhat generic when it and when it goes to actually how how to
record videos. >> Okay. >> Um, what would what if the agreement is is signed or we do move forward forward with Motorola? Um, correct me if I'm wrong, Nate. They would we go into an implementation phase where Motorola
assigns us a project manager. Uh, we've already created a team within the police department um of of five per five different personnel from patrol, the detectives of records admin um to work through the of how to implement the
Motorola into into the police department. Um the idea is to before the before Motorola even hits the street or is even installed, we would like to have all that training done. >> So Motorola does provide part of the the
contract is they do provide somebody to come in and and uh train everybody. >> Okay, perfect. >> If you don't mind, if you don't mind. Right. So, so during the deployment phase, which is approximately 3 days where we will have people on site getting everything up and running, there
will be additional training during that time. Um, there's also online training that can be done at any time and Ben and and the chief know they can reach out to me and our other local um support people locally if they ever have any questions or need any additional training. But,
um, the training is is >> it's out there at any time. they could they could do a training as well as in person. >> Perfect. Um I just want to make sure that the officers are ready for this and you know that they hit the ground running and everything and >> um because I assume that there's also
going to be process changes on the back end on the administrative side of things getting familiar with the administrative side of it and how does that operate or how does that tie into our processes within the city and things like that. >> Exactly. I this wouldn't be we install
everything tomorrow and then say here you go. It it's it's going to be a two to three maybe four month process of of getting everybody trained in scheduling squad cars to get the um the devices installed and the big thing is officer training.
>> Okay. Um and then one last question. Um well I guess two questions. So first off um the and I would I guess the I assume the answer to this is yes. You listed out a whole bunch of concerns that we have
with the existing uh system that we have. I assume the Motorola system negates all those that it meets all the challenges that we're currently having. >> Yes. >> Right. Okay. >> Yes. >> Um and then two, what portion of the
support for the system does Motorola provide? because I assume Metro Inet is going to do some support for the connectivity of the system because it's cloud-based. Correct. >> Correct. >> So, Metro Inet will handle some of the
connectivity to the uh from the body cams to the CL to the uh backend system and everything. Right. >> So, I it's kind of a mixed question for both of you and I apologize you haven't been up to talk yet. So, I >> jumping the gun a little bit. I was
feeling left out anyway. So I don't >> So the >> is the microphone on? >> Sure people can hear. >> Oh, thank you. >> I believe there's a is there a cradle point router that would be in Okay. >> So there would be a device mounted in every vehicle that would act as
basically a gateway to the internet and the uh Motorola devices would first record everything on the basically the black boxes in the car. um they would use the cradle point internet access device to offload
everything to Motorola's server and then once that has been confirmed as a completed upload it will take it off the uh squad car. >> Okay. >> So we would help some with the um we would help a little bit with getting the connections uh from the cradle point if there ever say like a troubleshooting
thing that needed to be done. I would cooperate with whoever would be their administrator for the cradle point device. >> Okay. Um, we might need to get Motorola involved uh at some point, but it' more likely be an issue with just making sure that it's working properly up front,
having a subject matter expert on our side to be able to help out if there was a connection issue in the future, and then working with the person uh in the police department, which might be Ben. That would be the administrator of that cradle point uh device group. >> Okay. So, I guess you would handle So,
Metroet would handle the connectivity side of things. Motorola we would have some kind of support contract that would handle software support as well as hardware support for all. >> It's kind of funny with these because they don't unlike say Arbitrator or Axon. Uh both of those companies will
put software on the squad's laptop and interact with it there. Um Motorola has a separate hardware device that kind of mounts kind of close to the rearview mirror and that is um that handles all the interaction with the device. So
there is no software that we we would need to push out. Um and then the management of it from the the back end say when an officer needs to go back and review video with the police department or look to see that's all web- based. >> Okay. >> So it's u
>> or tickets with Metro quite a bit is what you're saying. >> I'm looking forward to that. That'll be nice. >> That's good information for you too. I got to say that >> you take care of Oakdale and they have it and so the difference >> I really don't have to I get so few tickets from the other two major member
agencies that have Motorola it's it's extremely rare that I even see one in say like >> that's a huge statement right there. Thank you for that. >> I was just going to add that we do have obviously 247 support. So if if an issue does arise, the first step is to is to
open a ticket, right, with our support. And if Jesse or Metro Inet needs to get involved, they can. But typically, like he said, for Oakdale and Mountain View, it's just call, we get it taken care of, and they don't even need to be involved. >> Okay.
And sorry uh one final qu. So on the mo motorola side I assume that because this is all uh software as a service based that we would have our own tenant separate from other agencies but there is connectivity back to like BCA and everything on the back end but we would
have our own um tenant that we would have access to that we could constrict access to for our officers. No plans to share amongst member cities. This will be just north St. Paul. >> Okay. Okay. Perfect.
>> This is a seat base where you know each you know for a seat would be the officers body cam, the car and everything else. Is that considered like a per per um cop or per um person unit or are they are they separated as far as
the different devices how many devices you can have on their on that account? So we don't limit the number of of U accounts or users. All we're doing in this proposal is number of devices and if the agency has you know other
officers that are sharing squad cars or sharing body cameras, things like that. There's no it it's just per like per device and then the agencies can put in as many users as they need. >> Yeah. I wasn't sure if shifts share devices or each person have their own
device as far as >> so the each officer will have their own body warn camera assigned to them >> and then the squad cars obviously will have their own Yep. will stay with the car. >> So when they when they get in the car their body cam links with the car >> correct
>> that's what I think I heard one time is when they get in the car then things are supposed to happen supposed to turn on there and do that. So that will work with so each camera and car will sync up when the officer gets in there. >> Yes. Okay. >> If there's a bad camera, how do they get
a replacement for that day? Or how do they get it repaired right away if they're on duty and there's a faulty one somewhere along the way? >> So, what what we've what other agencies have done in the past is usually pull either a spare camera into service or
take one from say the chief or somebody who's not using it that day, right? um because the cameras are docked at the PD over overnight or during the day, right, when officers are not working. So, you can easily just grab someone else's camera. >> Okay. >> But that being said, our um they call it an RMA process, the return process. So,
if a camera does go bad or it needs to be returned, that turnaround is within a week. So, they they would call support, open a ticket, support would send them out a new camera, and then the old camera goes back, no questions asked. Are these on are these available through
a immediate purchase or do you have to order them specifically for our community? >> Uh they're not specific to the communities. So once they would come here, they would be configured for the specific agency. Okay. >> And that's part of the deployment
process. >> So if I my camera breaks and I need to use the chief, is it like a MAC address where they just go in and assign my camera then from the chief to me? It it's a very simple process where you go into the back end that I mentioned earlier. You go to checkout camera and
you check that camera out and then it's checked out to you. >> So, it's easy to swap if you need to be able to do that. Okay. >> Now, do our officers realize they might have to smile once in a while? I don't know. They're have to shave. >> We didn't put that in the proposal, but
we can. >> All right. And I guess one last question along those night uh along those lines for Ben. Um part of the 25 body uh body warn cameras that we're getting. I assume we've got some hot
swap available ones in there. I don't know how many officers we have. >> Uh we have um 20 officers right now. 2021. >> Fiveish extra. >> Yeah. Just in case. I mean we have an authorized strength of 23 with including
um um our administration side uh record side uh and our cso too um who will be assigned one. >> Next question is so we we um we are hoping to purchase it extra just in case. Okay.
>> Um because that's kind of also a problem that we ran into with >> with the current with the current uh body camera system. >> Okay. I'll stop then. Thank you. >> Good questions. Battery wise, too. Extra a couple extra batteries so we can How
long does it take to charge? I mean, is it >> It's about four hours from zero to 100 for a battery. >> Batteries are swappable. So, there are spare batteries uh in this proposal. So, >> officers don't have to get a new camera. They can just swap out the battery. Okay. Um, and battery life, it depends
on how it's being used and what features are turned on and things like that, but you're looking at anywhere from, you know, 10 to 11 hours on a single charge. >> Okay. What features are put onto this camera for the officers? And as far as, um, what
if they're in an incident, what other features are there? >> So, um, one one of the big features that is is very popular, Ben and I were just talking about this, is is called record after the fact. So with the camera that that we have here that it's it's turned on but not recording.
It's technically recording, right? So it's called record after the fact. So I would be able to come back and pull video with no audio off of this camera of this interaction right here. So if there's a complaint officer's at Starbucks and and you know tomorrow Sergeant says, "Hey, somebody complained
about you at Starbucks." Well, nothing happened. Well, let's go pull the video. And you can go back up to 23 hours of time when this is not docked because when it's docked, it's not recording, right? But not docked and not recording. This is recording, right? On like a like
an old to or DVR. So that's one of the big features that um is a big selling point. I know it was for me knowing that even if I if I'm too focused on whatever I'm dealing with, I don't have to think about pressing a button. I just think about the threat and know that that
video is there and and I'm covered. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Plus, when you hit the record button on the camera, it records starting from 30 seconds before you hit the button. >> So, it's nice little buffer. >> The buffer. Yeah, that's nice. >> All sound and everything, right?
>> No sound for that. Um, >> no, but the video is there. The button. Okay. >> And then they also sync up with the car. So, if the camera was uh if the cop hit the button to start recording on the uh body cam, >> the car's cameras also start recording.
And vice versa, if the officer makes the car start recording, body camera starts recording right away without having any intervention. Uh there's a GeForce sensor in there too, right? In the car. >> In the car. Yes. >> Yeah. So, if the car gets smooshed into a light pole,
>> the GeForce sensor will trigger. It will start recording on both the incar video and on the body camera 30 seconds before the car hit the light pole. So there's >> see what happened. >> Yeah, exactly. >> And that 30 seconds is configurable. It can be 15 seconds, it can be 30 seconds,
it can be up to 10 minutes. So >> Oh, that's kind of nice. >> Configurable to the agency and their policy. >> Okay. Okay, >> Mr. Mayor, if I may. >> Yeah. Um, well, I'm the city attorney, so I'm obligated to ask some of the pessimistic questions. Um, you know, as
a as a city, as a police department, you know, we have statutory records retention requirements. If hypothetically we go with your services and then some point down the line change to somebody else, how do we get access can we still get access to
those files? Is there a file only service something to that effect or are we sort of locked in to you for you know period plus record retention period? >> Yeah. No, great question. So if you were to choose to go with another vendor in 5
years or whenever it is, the videos are your videos. We don't make you pay for them. We don't charge you to to download them and move them somewhere else. Everything that's everything is recorded in MP4 file, so it's playable anywhere else. You don't need a special player. Um, but we will give you options and
time to either download and move to another server or maintain a license with us if you choose. We have multiple options and and some of those require no cost. They're no cost to the agency. >> Thank you. And then it sounds like you
you sort of answered that as well, but also in terms of sharing the the videos from the department to like the prosecuting attorney's office, it sounds like it's all mostly MP4s and and it's fairly easy to move those around. >> Yes, it's extremely easy. That's one of
the nice things about our new back end that that obviously I didn't go too into depth on it, but um the sharing portion is very easy. It's it's as simple as as sending an email. The recipient side is an email link where you can go in and view and download view or download um
the files that are shared with you and not just limited to camera incar um any any sort of digital evidence that you have in that case is shared how you choose to share it and who you choose to share it to. >> Thank you.
>> How long of a contract? >> Five years. >> Five years. Okay. uh some some of the key features that uh we uh we're happy that Motorola can provide us. Um one the big thing is is that it aligns with our mission
statement as far as community support and working with the community. Uh having a reliable system um will will keep that keep that mission statement true. Uh the uh automatic license plate reader, that's that's a big one. Um that'll be installed in uh five squad
cars. Uh so officers aren't necessarily s always looking down at running a license plate. It it the squad car will actually automatically do that. Um the other two big things that that we are I'm personally excited about is one the
digital digital evidence storage the the backend area. Not only does that contain the the videos the officers uh record, but it anything digital involved in a case will hold that evidence. Um, one of the key features
that they have is a community video link. Uh, with this contract, officers will have an application on their phone on their department issued phone. uh they can create a scan code, give it to a victim or a witness who has video
footage and that uh that victim or witness can automatically up take that video from a Ring camera, from their cell phone camera uh and automatically put it into the system. The problem that we have now is officers
had to give the victim or witness their email. Then the victim or witness has trouble configuring the video or when it gets sent to us, it's not configured the right way. So then we had to create a ticket with Metro Inet. We have to save it a certain way within our PD server,
uploaded a certain way into our report writing system that gets rid of all that. It's basically sent in already attached to that case because of that unique uh scan code that is provided. Uh this this system does bring us back bring the police department up to 21st
century policing with technology. Um which really you know our community expects transparency and accountability from their police department and this technology will only support that um to support those goals. uh considerations uh reliability is
essential. We currently do not have any type of trust or reliability with our our current system. Um the cameras must perform uh constantly without failure. That's something that we are we are finding with our our current system. Um
the big issue too is if cameras aren't reliable, the public investigating agencies and the Ramsey County Attorney's Office will have little tolerance or understanding during a critical incident. So these major events that police um police departments get in involved in um if we don't have video of
what happened because the system fa the the current system that we use failed you know that brings in a lot of questions. Uh going over to the there we go. Uh we kind of hinted on it
earlier. The estimated uh 5-year contract is um just over 322,000. Uh couple other um that's also including the uh install fee with uh EATI which handles uh the squad cars uh technology
inside the squad cars. um the 2026 uh Metro Inet quote um to this quote for 2026 and 2027. This directly relates to the the server space that we currently
use for our current video footage. Um in the Motorola contract, we do have a migration clause in there. Um, the problem is there are over 16,000 videos on the police department server that aren't
that were not properly saved in an MP4 format. They were saved in an AV3 or an AV system. So, we are going to have to work with Metro Inet um and uh I pro to
figure out how we can convert all of those videos to get them off of the Metro Inet server that we currently use and into uh Motorola. So, that's where those two numbers come from. Um is that's the that's the server space. Uh
the I and then we also had to pay uh an IRO licensing fee for using their software every year. And with that, any any further questions? >> I think it'd be a lot better what we have now. I think I think we're looking in the
right direction. >> Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I mean, we're able to move, you know, sooner than we thought we were going to be able to do. Just kind of like we did with the the locks. you when you we met with the police fire chief about that we didn't realize you know how much programming is involved for every single
thing. So manh hours is very valuable very expensive and we you know if we can you know be able to use the technology in better ways to be able to have everybody be able to do the job they're supposed to do instead of housekeeping it's uh going to be better for the whole city.
>> Exactly. Mayor. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> I'd like to make a quick comment if I could. Uh so I sat in on on these um presentations and I tell you their presentation was much better than their competitors and these guys come in at
about a third the price and they are equally as quality as a product and features that are charged a considerable amount through a competitor is part of the package with these guys. Um I've seen the frustration with the officers and with uh our IT who's ready to take a
hammer to the system that we have now. Um, I think this is a well-needed system and I think they'll be lucky to have it. Good to have it. >> Good. >> Perfect. Well, thank you so much for all that information and the great presentation from all of you.
>> So, the next thing is to do a motion. Can I have a motion to approve the purchase of the M500 incar cameras and the V700 body cameras? >> Also move. >> So move. Council member McKenzie. >> Second.
>> Second. Council member Woods. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Thank you all very much. Look forward to working with you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you everybody. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for coming. >> Yeah. Appreciate it. >> Thanks.
>> We didn't even get to get ask you guys questions. >> She could show us the black and white camera she's carrying now. >> Yes. Really? >> Thank you everybody. >> Thank you. Take care. Appreciate it. >> All right. Move on to reports from city
manager and departments. >> So, we had a staff meeting today. Um, couple updates. Electric department's working on getting the Christmas lights ready to be put up, which they'll be lighting them up after Thanksgiving. Um, >> I'm glad they're waiting till after Thanksgiving. >> Yes.
Uh, and we have uh eight interviews that they'll be doing this week. Uh we had one um lineman that uh had left and uh so we're getting into the interviews now. Looks like we have some good candidates to choose from. So that'll be good. Um we have some ongoing work that they have at the substation with some
updates that are out there. Um and they're still working on some of the poll change outs from their uh system inspections. Community development's been it's a continuing process for continuing to work on ordinances and as they go through the process and find out other either old ones or outdated ones.
Um they still working on we're hoping to actually have the um solid waste RFP to you guys for review today, but uh we need a little more time with that. So that'll come back um either the next one or the next one before the end of the
year that we'll have that too. Um uh the working on the CIP with the planning commission um communication is working on uh presentations and they'll be going to the parks commission tomorrow and actually the arts commission in two weeks to discuss next
year's um festivities and you know their involvement and what's kind of expected. So Ava's doing that. Uh she's right now collaborating with the high school. They're going to have a in January a career panel, which I think they did that last year as well. So, we'll have uh people from individual departments
that'll go over there and talk to them about their careers and it's kind of a nice program. Um finance is busy working with uh truth and taxation which will be coming up at their next council meeting and then uh
it's final approval on the 16th. Um PD Ray, our chief is at uh attending the chief's conference up in Brainard right now. Um and right now they're kind of getting out and working on warning people about the snow rule that's in place. Then they try to give out
warnings in November and if we still can't keep them off the road, they tend to get tickets past that point. Um so just out warning everybody that that is coming. Public Works is staying busy with uh street sweeping and the progress is coming on the student build house.
They got the basement dug, got the footings in today. They're hoping to inspect that today and then they're hoping to have at least the walls formed and up and poured maybe by the weekend and then they'll get them waterproofed, let them cure a little bit and back fill and we'll have the college out here
starting to build. Um, fire department is currently working on their annual physical agility test. Um, and we >> mayors don't have that. >> Uh, we also have one of our um firemen
that is going over um with the team for visiting North High and teaching hands-on CPR to them. So, that's nice, too. And that's all I got for you. Thank you >> very much. Appreciate the update. Lawyer, you got anything to say?
>> Other than moment, your honor. >> All right, there we go. We got this feels so empty. I have to ask somebody questions here. >> Mackenzie. Yeah. Um, we have our meeting December for the EDA
December 9th, 8th. I don't remember what it is. >> 9th I think it is. >> 9th. Yeah, that'll be coming up. >> And um other nothing that other than that. >> Okay. Who's sir? >> Um, arts and culture met a couple weeks
ago for our normal monthly meeting and then we had a special planning meeting last night workshop to kind of talk about uh 2026 and um some potential process improvements we can make to how we do our work.
>> So, good stuff. >> Yeah, good deal. All right. Thank you. Any general business? Well, I attended the uh VFW vets day ceremony at 11:00 on the 22nd,
whatever day it was. And then two days later, I went to the VFW's uh um auxiliary and memorial lunchon that they have now at the BFW. And I'll tell you what, the way they handled those
soldiers and their past histories and that, I was really moved by it. I was really glad I got a chance to go down to that. It was pretty cool. >> Very nice. >> Very cool. >> Sounds like I'm honorable experience. >> I Yeah.
Anything? >> Um, I've got nothing. >> I'm trying to remember the last time we spoke. I think we did the police foundation pancake breakfast since we met last, right? So, that was good. Was getting some pancakes and it's a good turnout. It was uh nice to be able to
attend that and can't think of anything else. It seems to fly by, but I don't remember what I do. How was that? >> Uh how about a happy and healthy Thanksgiving for everyone and their safe travels? >> I can't believe that. >> I guess the last thing I'll say is thanks to all our vets and allowed me to
come in and visit with them. Thank you. Well, our next meeting is going to be December 2nd. So, if there's nothing else, I ask for adjournment. >> So, move. >> So, move. Council member McKenzie. >> Second. >> Second. Council member Woods. All those in favor say I. I. Seem to do pretty
well when there's two members with