##VIDEO ID:h4egXBZkeF4## e e e e e e e e e e very much we're going to start the January 21st uh Workshop a roll call please council member McKenzie here council member schwe is absent council member Woods here council member Norby here and mayor mongi here thank you I please get a motion to adopt the agenda I'll make I'll make the move Mr Council McKenzie second I second second Council M Woods all those in favor say I I thank you topics thank you mayor uh there's one topic on the agenda tonight um invited uh city engineer Morgan Dolly to discuss the this year's Street utility Improvement project I think it'd be good to kind of go in more detail than we probably do but it'd be good for the newer members to see how the process goes through and how we address things as we go along in the middle of the project so I will turn that over to Morgan all right thank you Brian Mr mayor members of the council uh thank you for the opportunity to present some information on this year's uh reconstruction project uh generally we've been just naming these projects by the year of construction and then Street and utility is just a reference in terms of what is actually being improved and I'll provide more detail on that as we go through the slides um hopefully you will be able to see them on the front screen there in a little bit more detail there are some um Graphics in the packet but I do have a presentation slide deck here to run through uh the slides that I've prepared for the overview here are a combination of a presentation that I gave to City Council in September um which was at the conclusion of our kind of preliminary engineering or feasibility study phase uh preparing for the project and then also U folding in some information that we shared with the public at our public informational meeting um so it's kind of uh non-technical in the sense that I wanted some of the newer council members and the council to be reminded of some of the things General things that we're telling residents and communicating with them so they can be prepared for construction even though that's not a technical portion of the project it is very very important communicating uh with folks that actually are living out there every day through an entire summer of construction we take that really seriously so I'm going to be there might be too much information for those of you that have maybe lived through a project um but I I'll just kind of run through it if if you think it's you can tell me to hurry along but also Brian told me to fill up the whole Workshop so we'll see how I do on timing um but uh I should also back up just to let you guys know uh that are maybe newer on the counil that the picking a project or picking the project area is certainly um it's not random it's something that uh is several years in the making especially for this project it goes back to something that you know from an engineering perspective and then working hand inand with public works and City Administration and finance um is part of a something that happens on an annual basis from in the budgeting process is looking at the capital Improvement plan and we're looking at the uh quantitative data in terms of the quality of our roads the quality of our utilities how many water breaks we may be getting in specific areas of the City versus other areas of the city places where Public Works know are um becoming more expensive or more problematic from a maintenance standpoint to be able to take care of like underground pipes or whatever uh and trying to fold that into something that is U you know giving the city and the public a generalized road map for the next 5 to 10 years in terms of where might the project be and those Capital Improvement plans or our pavement management plans where we identify neighborhoods or areas they're not written in stone they're subject to change sometimes sometimes the council has some thoughts about changing them or changing the ORD sometimes staff wants to reorganize things for priority reasons for example if we've got a like again a water main break hot spot we might want to bump that up or fold that into a project uh but it is an very involved ongoing process uh that staff takes very seriously uh also is intended to fold into other uh Capital Improvement Plans by other agencies such as Ramsey County or maybe the Watershed district has got some projects that they might be doing so when we can or mindat would be another one so where we can try to dovetail our efforts uh or sometimes it's important that we come in and do our work before like Ramsey County does an overlay project for example um we try to do that and try to fold that into kind of that five to 10year Capital Improvement plan as well too it started um uh back in uh uh 2012 I think was kind of the first part of the the modern era of North St Paul capit Capital Improvement planning and this project that we're going to talk about here tonight was the last project on that list and it even got broken into two projects over time so as we move on into the future uh I think what you will see and what you'll be considering as the decision makers for the city is a bit of a shift in uh kind of Focus right so initially the this first 10 years or so of projects uh a lot of them were underground utility full reconstructs um very invasive time intensive uh you know takes the whole summer to do and what we're trying to do is get through the last of those projects and Trend in a direction that is more focused because we have addressed a lot of the worst underground utility areas uh focus more on Pavements pavement preservation or Andor pavement replacement um you'll hear about overlays you'll hear about maintenance overlays things that Public Works does that doesn't really need an engineer that they're able to do on an ongoing basis and I think that maybe if you follow followed along with the budget disc discussions last year and probably we'll get into it again this year too um Dan the finance director has probably mentioned um you know well not a pivot but more focus on overlay or Pavements as opposed to the underground um utilities which will make the projects a little bit smaller in financial size and more e um economically feasible uh potentially some of those projects will not need to be bonded for maybe they can be paid for you know from a cash standpoint um all that's kind of TBD As you move into the future but I just to point out that we are at a little bit of an inflection point in terms of what the last 10 years have been like like and the focus for the last 10 years and then maybe what the next 10 years might be like right so and our hope is to as we reallocate those dollars towards Pavements is to be able to cover more real estate and have a greater I guess perceived impact hopefully with respect to the overall quality of North St Paul's roads that's kind of what we're trending towards or hope hopefully trying to Trend towards so back to this project um with this slide Morgan can I ask one favor because I know I was confused the first time I met you can you introduce yourself and explain your relationship the city ah shoot yes absolutely I apologize my name is Morgan Dolly uh I am the city engineer of record for North St Paul I've been uh I'm a consultant so I'm uh a by contract City employ city engineer uh I've been uh working with the city of North St Paul since 2009 and the engineer of Records since about 2010 or so um and the First full Recon project that I was involved in is a part of this modern capital Improvement plan was 2014 uh there's been about uh half dozen or so projects since then more if you include overlays um and been working with several different city managers and several different Public Works directors but uh yeah it's been um great experience working with the city of North St Paul since that time so was was that enough kind of background yeah thank you as a good reminder thank you um okay so into uh this slide shows project locations and I thought you may recall that I mentioned previously before that um this project was split into two and so we're showing two different colors here um green is what is anticipated to happen in 2027 according to the capital Improvement plan uh so that's on the bottom there so that's Chisum and massabi and then what's happening this year uh is in the red that's bule and Gerald and shaune with a little bit more detail which I'll show in some future slides um one question that we get asked a lot is why did you kind of pick to break it into two like this because it looks like really there's not that many streets involved here in 2025 and that's true but we do have some work within the park for storm water quality so we have some ponding that's going to go on in there we have a water main Loop that I'll show later that goes through the park we're going to be replacing part of the trail there because we need the trail for construction access at the bottom of the hill and really that break point at Gerald um and then taking care of the loop on bule if we do that in 2025 those are streets that will not need to be driven on by heavy construction traffic in 2027 the contractor in 27 uh will be able to get in and out of that green area off of radit without needing to drive on any of our New Roads uh which are in the red which will protect that investment and lengthen the lifespan of those roads and so that was intentional to break it as we have it here and uh we think that again in 2027 we can write those project specifications such that it it prohibits the contractor from getting on those brand new roads so that's the that's the break there's also um a significant amount of storm sewer infrastructure on shaune Drive big pipe very large pipe that's very expensive and so that has been driving kind of the offset or of cost between the two projects and that's why it was split into two was because it was getting to be too much to construct In One Construction season and Too Much from an economic feasibility standpoint to do in one year so uh back in 2020 I believe the decision was made to break it into to on the capital Improvement plan so this next slide again just shows a little bit more about um some of the areas within the park that are going to be worked on the north northern portion of the park uh areas that drain towards that um uh water treatment uh Pond if you want to call it a pond at the at the head of the creek there uh we're also going to um do some work in the parking lot for the park so there'll be some improvements there which I'll show in a little bit more detail um focusing in on the surface improvements uh and underground utilities on Gerald and a lot of these are the same I won't go through every single bullet um but we're looking at full Street reconstruction brand new curb and gutter um we do have very poor soils throughout North St Paul so our experience has been on some of these roads uh they were originally built you know asphalt just kind of over a very thin layer of gravel uh sometimes uh not much granular underneath that sometimes we're seeing Pavements that have been laid on top of black dirt which is definitely not good which is one of the reasons why some of our streets are just not in great uh condition so when we fully reconstruct the road we're actually coring out all of that bad soil and replacing it with good granular material that's free draining that is uh well compacted and will hopefully be pushing us onto a road towards our uh streets lasting with good maintenance with regular M maintenance 50 60 70 years um and uh and not being prone to a lot of you know potholes or other major distresses opening up in the pavement other than some normal cracking and cracking is normal no matter what um but staying on top of that sealing the cracks um that's generally kind of our approach from a maintenance standpoint to Pro protect um and lengthen the life of the new Pavements that have been put in and the investment that the city has made in those roadways when you're talking about the current state of the existing roads I mean how old are the roads that we're talking about these are actually uh newer than you would think so this is early 70s late 60s depending on what part of the neighborhood went in okay um the northern part of town uh this is just anecdotally from my experience working on these different projects soil oil s tend to be very uh poor compared more poor compared to the southern part of town or the older part of town um some of the roads even though they're not in great shape either but in either north of 36 or south of 36 um you know those could have been 50s 60s vintage and some of them are better some of them are not as good certainly some of the utilities that we're seeing in the northern part are not great in fact uh the sanitary sewer on Gerald Avenue we actually uh had to advance some sewer lining to 2022 is that the year that we did that so it was just getting so bad we were having some sewer backups along that road it was intended to do that sewer lining with this project but we couldn't wait right so some of it is been driven by utilities not streets but but um y okay early 70s is kind of that the short answer to your question there thank you um okay and then so for underground uh full replacement of the water main uh and water Sur Services uh the sanitary sewer as I mentioned the main line is already lined but we're going to be lining the services to the home not all the way to the home but just to the property line that is something that we've been doing on all of our reconstruct projects to protect again the investment in the roads we don't want to leave uh like an old clay tile service for example under a road that could be subject to breaking um and then caving in and then we got to have a contractor dig the road even though the services are private responsibility we think that that's a good investment you know if we're going to put millions of dollars into a road some level of uh money into those older Services um seems to make sense and they've performed fairly well we've had very little problems with those on the past projects um that we've utilized that in so that's a part of the strategy there um on Shaun e specifically I mentioned kind of significant amount of uh of of storm sewer pipe um we're proposing a a new I'll Show additional slide on this but some new sidewalk on the North side to connect some existing sidewalk to mcnight and also to connect the mcnight sidewalk to the park and the Park trails itself um similar roadway reconstruction and similar um where there are water and sewer Services uh same replacement as well too bule again that's kind of that isolated Loop that we're trying to get in and get out to uh protect that from any impact with the future project in 2027 same thing uh full roadway reconstruction there is sidewalk on both sides so usually on these projects where we've got existing sidewalk we reconstruct the sidewalk at the same time to reset everything on the same uh infrastructure life cycle clock um upgrade all of The Pedestrian ramps to current Ada uh requirements that's something that doesn't exist right right now so whenever we're touching a sidewalk we got to bring that up to ADA compliance and again same thing sewer sewer Services lining uh there is some sewer reconstruction there Mainline reconstruction in this area specifically because we do have some uh some sanitary sewer Force main that needs to be Rec reconstructed and so we kind of have to do everything all at the same time so that's one uh one area where we're not just lining the main line or not lining the main line but we're reconstructing it within the park itself uh as I mentioned there's a 2-in overlay of the parking lot which will extend the life of that parking lot it'll look like a brand new Surface on the top we'll re restripe it um and uh so it look like a brand new lot but we're not replacing any of the well there might be some spot replacement of the curb but it's going to be as needed mostly just attending to the asphalt uh uh Pavement in the parking lot um again there's a six foot sidewalk north of the parking lot from um the binous trail the asphalt Trail that's in the park as I mentioned up shaune to connect to mcnight we have some storm water basin expansion going on in the park uh and that is all driven by Ramsey Washington Metro Watershed District rules so every time that we disturb uh the subgrade for a roadway project we we are triggering Watershed rules that require us to build into the project some storm water runoff treatment to improve the water quality of the water leaving the impervious surfaces that we are um reconstructing and so that Basin was put in in 2014 for a project that was uh further to the East and so the most economical approach here is to just to provide some expansion around the outside we do have a little bit of Maintenance uh and some erosion on some of the slopes on the sides of that uh Basin as it sits now so it's a kind of a nice combination of being able to address that issue and provide that water quality treatment uh component that's required by The Watershed District all in one Fell Swoop uh so we'll take care of that all at the same time um significantly there is a new water M Loop that does not currently exist I don't know if you can see my pointer you probably oh here we go this right here is going to be it's kind of ill illustrating it's not exact but there's a gap and an easement between the homes there between those two homes so we're going to directionally drill a water man um without open cut so hopefully trying to preserve some of that sidey yard aesthetic uh for the people that live there on either side and there's no need to drill any services or anything this is simply a connection or a loop that because we have um water quality drinking water now drinking water quality complaints and issues at the end of the current dead end line line which is at the end of uh is that wellhouse one four four wellhouse number four which is basically right at the entrance to the park you can't really see it very well but it's this is wellhouse 4 right here and the water man pretty much just ends right there but we also have homes that feed off of that and because it's a dead end line there's not a lot of water circulation uh they might have I don't know Brown water or they can smell it t basically taste and odor complaints Jason knows all about that that's right you're on a sometimes on culde saacs or dead end lines it's something that we have to so if we do have an opportunity um to take care of that with uh providing a loop um this is an opportunity to do that so we've built that into the project and hopefully help uh the drinking water quality for those folks that are connected off that line right now um and then there's also a lift station which is also hard to see but that's kind of down in this area um and so that lift station was rehabilitated in in 201 16ish or S 17 maybe 2017 so the station The Pump Station the lift station itself um is not really included in this project but the Force main so that's the pipe that the The Pump Station pumps into U and uh that that uh is going to be rehabilitated and replaced where necessary so that uh again um that doesn't need to be attended to at some point in the future so um just taking care of that all at the same time um see this is another graphic that basically shows a little bit more exact detail for the water M uh kind of that where's my pointer here yeah so the teal here this is all new water M um now will you have to go into mcnight rotor doll when you do the uh replacement under piping underneath there or is it on just that's a good yeah we're at this point we're trying to operate without needing to go into their RightWay even right um and we don't have any plans to you know they just overlay that so we don't have any plans to go into the road okay uh if we do need a permit it'll just be for that kind of that the very entrance there just to do some work when you get that all be resurfaced anyways okay now we have in6 2014 or 2016 we did improve the pipes on the other side of mcnight um I think that's a replace placing the pipes under mcnight is more of a project for when Ramsey County decides to reconstruct mcnight road which probably won't be for some time we could have done it at this time but it didn't seem um like it was the right time I guess knowing that um we've got everything on either side all teed up for for when Ramsey County does reconstruct so we're hopeful to minimize impact to Travelers and traffic but if they have an issue at the intersection then it will have to be done at that point if there is some sort of unforeseen issue yeah but we're yeah we're we've designed it so that we're actually building a manhole at the tie-in point so that should be a good place to transition without any sort of major um issue with a construction joint outside of a manhole I guess um and that pertains to not just water M but that's a good question in terms of how that's going to work with um with the county fortunately we do have multiple ways into this neighborhood so if we are working right there off of Shaunie um we would want to make sure that hopefully access to the park parking lot and access to the other neighborhood areas are maintained by way of radit or some of the other streets right and we'll proba I I have a slide on phasing but that's something that we do try to focus on is to have the contractor move from area to area to area as opposed to working on everything at the same time to hopefully maintain access um well that would make sense you move your equipment once if you have to right right now I will um mention that's so it's when you say move at once one question that we get from residents who live on these projects a lot is why do they keep digging in the same place over and over and over again and that's because in these Urban reconstruct projects it's because of maintaining access so at the end of every day the contractors got to mostly uh not in every single situation on every day but mostly the expectation is is that they're going to get that road back to a tempor temporary kind of gravel surface that people can drive through um and so if it were in the middle of a farm field and nobody was living around yes they would probably dig one hole and they'd lay the water man and the sanitary sewer and storm sewer and everything in the same trench and then put it all back together but because they have to kind of work in bits and pieces people do see PE people do see the contractor digging in the same area more than once but that's because they have one crew put in the water M and then they'll come with the sanitary sewer or whatever right so it does and then they have to build the road and that's usually the last step so um it would be uh look more efficient if again if it wasn't fully built up with a lot of homes but that's why it appears that way um to make sure that people can get in and out as good as possible uh this next slide here is uh showing sanitary sewer and uh and that Force man I guess as well two uh off of bule um and that orange section there that's the area that's already been lined for sanitary sewer I should explain uh lining of sanitary sewer so that's something that we've done um uh very successfully in North St Paul where it's uh CIP lining is the acronym so that's cured in place pipe lining that's the CIP basically what it is is they um they have uh a felt sock if you will that is sized exactly to the size of the pipe that they're going to line and that pipe might be um could be a cast iron pipe it could be a clay pipe usually for sanitary sewer in North St Paul it's a clay pipe um and Clays Clay is great lasts forever but it's very prone to cracking it's very brittle it's prone to tree root intrusion so what this um CIP lining does it basically gives you when you're all done it gives you a new plastic lasts for a hundred years is what I've been told by some manufacturers pipe inside the original clay pipe and with the extra Advantage you don't have to dig a big trench to get to it they do it all while the pipe is underground and they access it through existing manholes so they don't have to do a lot of digging it's kind of nice uh there's a lot of robotic camera work and inspection by you know the little remote control vehicles that have cameras that you can kind of pan and tilt and look at things and plan out um sometimes add adhesive or cut uh cut things off to make the pipes more uh amendable to the lining process but the felt sock is measured perfectly they pull it into the pipe they inflate it with hot air and that felt pip felt material is also soaked in like kind of an epoxy like heat cured material that when the uh steam the hot air goes into the the pipeliner and and inflates it and it sticks against the inside of the existing clay pipe uh the heat cures it and it turns to like a rock hard plastic kind of material um and is very durable and very smooth on the inside so the pipe does get a little tiny bit slower uh smaller but not enough to really impact the capacity of these pipes in a residential neighborhood um and good for saving trees saving on excavation saving to get in and out of here without people seeing one more hole dug in front of their house um so anyway so and and actually recent costs have been tracking about the same as open cut excavation open Cuts may be a little bit less expensive but it seems to be uh good bang for the buck in terms of what we're trying to do and take care of the residents and be respectful for Access that's with the robotic uh camera so they can actually kind of look at um when they line the main line they can actually see the little dimples or divots where the service lines are and then they have a little uh robot thing that opens up a little hole for each single one and they they catalog that all beforehand so they've got a plan going into it they know exactly how many feet from manhole a to the house on the left and so they're um they're doing all of that on the on the fly as they're preparing it for service Mainline Service as they open that up um and that's all actually done you know segment by segment people really only see a minor Interruption of their Sewer Service maybe could be as little as one hour a couple hours or it could be a few hours you know usually the contractors out there knocking on doors asking them hey we're about to line through here can you just um not do a load of laundry or don't don't run your dishwasher for a couple few hours normal kind of you know flush a toilet here there that's usually fine um and then when they're done then everything's back open then they're back on line I should mention also with uh when we're replacing water main we do put in temporary above ground water pipes um can't do that in the winter when it's 20 below zero but when the uh temperatures are normal that is kind of the normal way to keep people on their water while we're replacing the pipes underground so it's connected through hydrants it's the exact same water it's just running through different above ground pipes um and usually connected house by house to either an outside hose spigot or sometimes we have to dig down to their service and connect that way uh if they don't have a hose spigot but generally um the interruption for water service on those folks is you switch from regular water to uh temporary water and then when we're all done putting the new pipe in the ground switching from temporary back to the new pipe usually just an hour or two I mean pretty pretty minor when you guys tear apart the wind you're down in the ground and you're going up against the uh sewer that goes in and out of the home do you inspect it at at the resident side to make sure there's nothing jammed up in there or anything or is that a main drain service that has to be done from the inside out yeah so our contractors typically will sometimes they do depending on what they see from the street side they start with the inspections from the street side with the televising of the mainline and then also uh what's called a lateral launch uh caming of the Sewer Service which might go from the main line up to the house and because they're only line like to the property line that's really primarily what they're focused on so they we are not hiring them to verify every linear their the resident has to understand it's his property right and his duty to do a main flush from his drain all the way out to the street to clean it all out right right yes and I think that we if we haven't it's very well I know we have on some projects um as part of our kind of preconstruction communication like a letter that would be sent out um we might encourage that or provide them like an address of a contractor that might do that for them if they haven't already um so that's something that I think I'd like to see us do yeah and and like Morgan said when the connection to the our main for the customer service that's normally like when we're out camera and sewers that's normally where we see the rot walls or the root intrusion from the service lines that's where a lot of the problems and let's say the the homeowner resident has like an Orangeburg pipe or something like that but back in the day when they did this worker connected into our main the contractors way back when they'd knock a hole in that clay pipe with a hammer stick the pipe in grow it around it and then you know bury it back bury it back and that's where we see I mean you can drive or you know when we're C or cameraing those lines you can see the roots that are in those U service lines um and with what we're doing with we when we line that connection that's protecting us that's really helping the the homeowner out because normally that connection is where you really see you know y the the roots in there so you know depending you know where the property line is you know we go 10 what 10 12 feet into the property so are there any other questions okay so this next slide is showing side walks I know it's not showing the split between 2025 and 2027 but this is a pretty unique neighborhood in North St PA where there's sidewalks on both sides of the street um you don't see that very often um basically uh the approach since uh the beginning is if there is an existing sidewalk the commitment has been to reconstruct that sometimes they've been busted up over the years with the tree root heaving or so there might be some trip hazards there I think over the years the city certainly has uh looked at replacing you know a panel here a panel there throughout the city sidewalk system so this is an opportunity if you're reconstructing the roads replacing the curb and gutter you know we can we can take care of that all at the same time now even though we're showing some red on mcnight we're not touching that that's just showing that there is a connection there the green is what doesn't exist here today so for whatever reason when they were putting this development in and then you know late 60s early 70s they just stopped That Sidewalk very close to the park and very close to mcnight road but with no way to actually get there without walking on the road basically so um fairly minor cost in comparison with the overall project but it's just a very easy connection we can make for those folks to get them uh right to the park uh going to the left or right to mcnight road to the right which uh that sidewalk goes all the way up to almost 694 bridge and it goes all the way down you can walk south of I94 on that sidewalk which I did not know but I kept following it and you can walk a long ways on that sidewalk so that's a viable connection um you know this next slide is design considerations that's something that I like to talk about which are just kind of you know unique things that every project is totally different you know so the sidewalk thing is kind of a unique issue that the the two Graphics I copied in here just for reference for you folks to know that we're not operating in a vacuum here but the the comprehensive plan which is something that happens every 10 years that was adopted uh by City Council in 201 um 18 and so we're coming up on another comprehensive Plan update cycle that's something that's mandated by the Metropolitan Council that all cities look at their land use planning their infrastructure planning their transportation planning combine it into a document um that addresses um current conditions and then out for the next uh I think 30 years or something like that so the last plan which was adopted in 2018 is the 20 240 plan we're coming up here in a couple few years embarking on updating that plan to the 2050 plan so there's a little bit more strategic discussions that you folks might be a part of Planning Commission might be a part of there's generally a lot of public engagement that goes along with that one of the chapters in that plan is sidewalks pedestrian you know Trails bicyclists that sort of thing and so um that the connection between the park and mcnight that was an identified connection that was in the 2040 comp plan at that time um and so having built built that into the project we're using that as a reference this other one to the right that's a little lesser known plan at this time but it is referenced in the comp plan so I don't think it's invalid and that's the living streets plan that was a document that was prepared in 2011 by our Watershed district and I think they paid for it at the time but there was a lot of public involvement there's some talk about trails and sidewalks and complete streets and not all of it has has been implemented and no plan is intended to be implemented 100% right lot of its interpretation as we get to a project but those are just two reference points I guess that that do talk about you know if you do have sidewalks trying to maintain them uh if there's opportunities to fill gaps that's another theme that shows up in these plans if you can fill a gap that's something the city should take a look at and so those were all kind of um reference points through the sidewalk construction or sidewalk design as it pertains to this project now with sidewalks throughout the city are the homeowners responsible for Clean cleaning each sidewalk it's in another home Yeah by I Ron you can weigh in too because I know we've we've looked at this and talked about it a lot too but by ordinance generally with some exceptions sidewalks in front of homes are expected to be cleared from a snow standpoint by the homeowner adjacent home owner yep there are there are a couple sidewalks that we do plow um the 2020 project or was that 20 18 18 project Lake Boulevard That Sidewalk got put right on the curb line um so at that that time I I didn't make that decision but the decision was made for us to PL that because the wind roll from the plow would go right up on the sidewalk now the sidewalk on County Road C 17th Avenue was that a City plow or is that a residential plow that's residential and that's County Road all right okay yep yep mcnight also yeah um couple other bullet points here I guess trees is another one I'm going totally out of order but um Josh Bond who's the city's Forester in public works has been through the whole project area um taken out some diseased and emerald ashore um trees or you know trees that' be at risk of dying right or they already had yep I I think Mo I think most of the trees are removed in that in this project area and I believe the 2027 project I think they're pretty much they're pretty much out so mostly things have been taken care of but I guess you know we know through having done several of these projects that sometimes things underground are we don't know their exact location sometimes something's in the way some there's some conflict we do expect there might be a some some tree removals there's there's one that's kind of right at the Right Where the Sidewalk Ends Where the Sidewalk would go through it doesn't make much sense to kind of go all the way around it on somebody's private property and so you know there's 's a a tree here or there that will need to come down there's some trees in the park um but we do build in some budget for reforestation if you will and so you know we have the opportunity under the guidance of Public Works and Josh as the Forester to do some tree planting at the end when all the underground and Road stuff is done hopefully we can either work with a resident or work within the park to find some good locations where you know they won't be subject to damaging a a sidewalk in the future or they won't be planted right on top of a water shut off which we've seen before right it's it's not they're not really always kind of thinking about what's Underground when they're planting the trees in the first place but we have an opportunity to hopefully do our best to mitigate that where we can where it makes sense so that's something that um City staff and public works works on with the project staff kind of at the very end um likely this will that'll be in 2026 first part of 2026 um and then also the first bullet here Watershed requirements I mentioned those are Watershed rules that are kind of mandated on us they do add cost it all goes back to the Clean Water Act of 1974 which is a federal thing and it's taken generations to kind of trickle down and get to this point um the intent being that it cleans the water flowing into our Waters and streams and wetlands and so you know there's a environmental stewardship component to that the downside or the the offset to that is it does cost money on our projects to to do that and so our uh approach here is to hopefully combat inflation things just keep getting more expensive every single year and also economies of St scale and efficiency of being all in the same place is the um you know that that pond expansion or enhancement that we were talking about right there in casy uh park by the head of the creek we're going to do everything that's necessary to be able to meet the requirements for both the 25 and the 27 project in the future ahead of time so when we come back for the 2027 project that part will be done we won't have to spend any money on it so we're spending a little bit money ahead but it'll be less expensive in 25 than it would be in 27 plus we'd be monkeying up grass and things that was you know would just planted in the park so we're trying to do things hopefully will this shut down the ball fields down at mcnight then for the summer I don't no not as a it will not a parking lot um the parking I think the parking lot I don't know if that's going to be a staging area um but as far as ball as far as ball fields or anything there's really not much going on down at Casey Casey number one the main parking lot by the building there's ball games there that mostly gets used that parking lot gets used a lot this back parking lot um there's not a lot of people that use that because there's no there's really no ball fields that get you well there's a ball field right there but it really doesn't get used but I think think for the most part I mean that may be a staging area for some of our equipment so we'll have to see how things go or you know yeah we we don't in in the project documents we don't want to give away the farm too early we uh we you know the contractor will likely ask they'll tour the project they'll see that as an opportunity it's up to the city whether they want to grant that but I will tell you and I think Ron's thinking this exact same thing is that if the contractor does have a staging area where they can park equipment and lay out some pipe or lay out some pallets or things that are going into the streets it cleans up the streets and it makes it much easier from a housekeeping standpoint they have to store their stuff somewhere and if they don't have a staging area outside of like the rights of way it winds up being the rights of way and that's it's technically legally okay but in ter if that's your house and you've got like a bunch of pipe stacked in front of it for a big chunk of the summer it is kind of annoying so when we do have an opportunity to let them use an area um it might it might be beneficial in a non-obvious way but it might be better for everybody that lives on the project to to do without the parking lot for the summer if we can live with that right and and we'll work it work work that out and talk with the contractor find out you know what what we think they'll need or what they think they'll need because like Morgan just said a lot of times residents will come home and then all of a sudden or we'll get a call and they're like hey we have uh you know a 10- foot high pile of concrete curb that just ended up in our front yard and you know the contractor like well we need a place to start this and put this and we this is the closest place and you know it just might still be within the RightWay but the people I mean rightly so they perceive it as that's their front yard like they've been mowing that for the last 30 years right so that's why I'm kind of watching because we got some kids in St Peters that need ball fields cuz Colin's going to be up this year oh okay so they need some places to play ball this summer yeah and if we have that if I have that information or know that that's going to happen you know I'll definitely take that in in consideration you know like I said I don't automatically say Hey you know you can use this parking lot or use whatever we have we have to see what's going on but I know the past few years those fields were not you know that field wasn't used so my initial thought was well they're going to come and ask for a staging area or some place and like Morgan said if if it's not a place that we give them it ends up being everyone's front yards unless they can work a deal out with somebody outse like a church or somebody if that's going to be you know if we have that information it's definitely good for us to know that so we can you know go about planning when we when we do this because we do try to work with the residents as best as we can we're usually out there with these projects every day we usually end up knowing all the people in the neighborhood one way or another um just because there's a lot going on and we really you know pride ourselves on making sure that our residents are taken care of as well as they can be with a big undertaking that's happening in front of their house you know so yeah it's you I always say in neighborhood meetings or when I'm talking to Residents there's just no way to candy coat a full you know summer of reconstruction it's noisy and it's dusty and it's you know sometimes you feel the vibrations um um but the the specifications we're using the practices that uh contractors who do this kind of work and that are familiar with what I call an urban retrofit project where you're trying to retrofit the streets and utilities while people are living all around you um usually especially if everybody is being communicative and fair with one another they can go well um and that's one of my slides is communication before I get to that though I do want to mention mention the phasing so we as I mentioned before like we're not going to let the contractor blow everything up and then just work in one corner here while the people have you know no streets to drive on and they don't see any activity for you know two months or something like that um we like to see the contractor only remove the pavement when they're getting to a specific situation and we haven't gotten to the point where we're we've dictated that out in the plans and specifications yet but again we'll look for logical breaks or logical ways to make that happen um and generally it saves the contractor cost if they do it that way because it's their responsibility to maintain these roads through the summer and if they're rutting and they have to constantly be putting down gravel to try to take care of it even though they're not actively working there that just it costs them money and and that's their responsibility we're not paying them to maintain the roads we say you got to maintain the roads and the cost for that is incidental to the project right so they don't get paid every time they put gravel down on the road they've got to make sure that people can get in and out of the project area and the best of their ability they try to stay on top of the roads but you know you get a rainy year and it's all muddy oh yeah be some unhappy R is yeah it's not our friend with these kinds of projects has there been a bid put out yet or is that no uh that might be next here uh yeah it's one slide after this so uh construction schedule anticipated subject to change certainly uh but usually we we see the construction start after road restrictions come off could be miday is usually when I think that's going to happen but it could be earlier again if mot lifts road restrictions earlier like they did last year was like in April I think right because last year was warm yeah and so if they can get going earlier so they can finish earlier we'll let them oh yeah um and so but so it could be April but usually it's me uh substantial completion is most things are done by October or some times November of the the same year um that means that we've got at least one lift of asphalt on the roads so the roads are paved all the underground work is done and some of the maybe last things that might happen uh in the spring of the next year like you see June 2026 would be the final Paving so the final layer of asphalt maybe some tree planting maybe some grass growing maybe some Landscaping little kind of miscellaneous cleanup items is usually what happens in the year following as far to get to the bidding schedule as you me you're asking about earlier so what we're shooting for right now is to request permission from the council to authorize advertisement for bids at the second meeting in February so we're we're getting there about a month away that doesn't mean uh that just means that we're getting your authorization to place an ad for the the bidding process to occur uh then the plans are uploaded to uh virtual uh plan room basically where contractors can download that and they can review it and they can put together their prices we've been using electronic bidding the last several projects very successfully contractors love that they don't have to fill out things with paper and use white out and whatever it's all done online in the computer um so the bid opening we're thinking would be March 25th thereabouts uh and then we'd be bringing the bid results to the Council on April 1st with a recommendation presumably uh with a recommended low bidder per Minnesota state statute for at least for Contracting work uh over $350,000 I think is the threshold um cities are obligated to award the contract to the low bidder to the lowest responsible and responsive bidder and responsible and responsive that's a whole discussion Jack can get into with from an attorney standpoint those are legal terms um but sometimes we get asked like hey you know we've got a good contractor right here in town or whatever can they do the work there are rules that we have to follow unfortunately we can't just give work it has to go through a process and we do follow that in accordance with the the annual Financial audit that the city goes through right so um generally we if everything is regular with respect to the bids received we are recommending to you the low bidder and generally if it's a contractor that we've worked to uh with before or if not we're getting references from other cities um but generally we've had pretty good luck with our publicly bid sealed bid projects like that and the contractors that have been selected um okay so just a right now where we are right now I mean the pro the plan and the design is still there's a little bit left to do go here but we're getting close to the end of estimating the costs and itemizing all the line items and all the pay items and the specifications and everything that goes into the bid package the contract documents um but what I've represented here is showing how the entire project which is estimated at just over $6.5 million breaks into different components and those different components are funded by different funds if you will so at the very top streets and surface Improvement so that's what you might imagine it's uh the roads the curb and gutter the sidewalks um surface improvements also includes a lot of the like Turf establishment or protecting things from erosion and runoff and so that's the majority of the project or that's the biggest component at just over $2.3 million um the water main that's just over 1.3 and the funding mechanism for that would be the Water Utility Fund uh sanitary sewer uh that's the Wastewater fund that's just over a million dollars and then storm sewer is the surf surface water fund and you can see the $1.8 million that's a big component two things with that we're including the water quality treatment for the 2027 project so we're doing a little ahead there and then also these pipes that are under shaune are very big it actually conveys a pretty big chunk of the city east of mcnight um through into Casey Park and so the big pipe is more expensive than I guess an average project because we've got a a fair amount of that so again all together uh $6.5 million um what I would say is that uh in the capital Improvement plan it's stated that the uh project is to be funded by bond funds and then the bond payments so it's just just like taking out a loan right so but the bond the loan payments or the bond payments by the city for the next whatever the period of the bond is 20 years for example is pretty typical um those uh principal and interest payments are made or by contributing amounts from each one of these funds so and the streets and surface improvements that would generally be um the uh that's Levy that's from the general Levy so the general property tax levy I don't know that we have do we have a street fund I don't know if there's a street fund but or pay pavement preservation is one and I think there is an A Street fund but those that's what's paying off the bond payment over 20 years is for that component and then a little bit simpler because these are uh Enterprise funds they have their own Revenue generating um ability through the utility billing right and so um they're not only taking in money from existing customers but then also responsible for making these Bond payments over 20 years for the individual projects and there's existing bonds for past projects that are still being paid off this would be proposed to be you know another one of those as well too I think that may have been part of uh Finance director Dan winnick's presentations to you in the past I mentioned communication is super important and this is a slide that was shared uh uh past presentations on several past projects but including this project so the city has set up a a dedicated phone line like a hot hotline uh and also a dedicated email address that is communicated out to to all the folks that live on the project um and I think the phone line I mean it may be answered during the day but generally goes into a monitored voicemail box um Ava Grier is that how you say your last name Grier g Grier Grier so our communications director Ava is generally responsible kind of for the first cut although she will um triage and redirect questions from the public to for example our uh construction Observer out in the field who has a lot of um home to home and Resident to resident contact during these projects or maybe uh the question needs to come to me or maybe the question needs to go to public work so uh I think uh everything's coming into City Hall first Sometimes she's able to answer those questions and and or at least say yep I'll have somebody come out and meet with you or I'll get somebody on the job um but then that's being kind of transferred to people that can hopefully address their concerns in the most timely fashion um mostly they are things that are kind of in the moment and construction related like hey there's a pile of stuff in front of my house is that going to stay or or but sometimes they're long R longer range things we try to flesh out uh by asking these questions ahead of time like do you have a grad party coming up in June that we need to be prepared for because we can make those accommodations if we know about them to make sure that you know people can get to the house even if the roads maybe a little bit dinged up uh access is there hopefully there's parking available like adjacent on the streets or whatever we'll try to work with those people as long as we know about them so it's everything from the minute to maybe something more um long range that we need to plan on we've even uh done a wedding or there was a backyard wedding in the middle of a project and we pulled that off successfully so um we just always uh encourage people to you know if you have a problem please let somebody know about it um if they uh and sometimes and there's nothing wrong with this they may come to you folks we do try to encourage them to use the proper uh tools you know email phone uh to get them in that habit I mean they certainly can CC you or you guys can pass information along uh there's nothing wrong with that but if we do kind of start those dialogues and those one-on ones between staff project staff whether it's City staff or uh WSB consultant staff whatever then we can hopefully be successful in you know solving their issue and maybe gets you guys out of the middle or hopefully maybe cuts the time in terms of being able to address their their issue but usually there's a little bit of a learning period in the first part of the project takes a little bit to get folks used to what's going on and then hopefully you know after the first couple weeks it it tends to go a little bit more smoothly once people are used to it um we will probably do another o like a outside I think like in the parking lot in the park like a open house in person that was one of the comments we got is does it have to be uh zoom and online and that has worked well in the past because we can record it and any anybody who can't make the virtual open house can just watch all the info and pick it up on their own time um but we want to be respectful of that and so we might you know come March or April like before construction we might hold another one like out there hopefully the weather's nice we can maybe we can even have the contractor out there um so they can meet some of the residents who are interested in learning more if they've got questions um I'm gonna just gonna blow through these because we're running out of time but these are frequently asked questions that uh we present on every project because they're questions that get asked on every project um access to to my driveway if I live on the project generally um unless the contractors digging or you know replacing a pipe or coring out the road building the road right in front of the the home generally there should be a drivable surface for people to get in and out um certainly at the end of the day and the beginning of the day like so for so for folks to get out to work or if they need to come back from work so they can come into their driveway um that's what we hold the contractor too um and the contractor knows also we get this question a lot if there's an emergency like if there's a house fire or there's a medical call or something like that they know that it's their job to backfill whatever hole they got going on and allow for you know the fir truck to go around the hole or whatever it is uh that's pretty practice on these projects and thankfully we're not working on an endless amount of culde saacs there are multiple ways in and out of this particular neighborhood so that's good um uh and so that's for the the excavation or digging right in front of the driveway when we get towards the end of the project we are replacing the ends of the driveways like we put in a new concrete apron and we maybe do a little bit of driveway work to match that in pouring concrete uh is not an overnight it's ready to drive on um as you might imagine I mean people like to put their handprints and stuff and that's a whole another issue where we try to protect that from happening um but uh generally it takes contract five to seven days to cure and so at that point most of the road is done we've got ample room for people hopefully to park their cars outside of the driveway and on the street right in front of their house and then the contractor will put a ribbon across the driveway um and let that concrete cure out and as soon as the contractor pulls the ribbon then people can drive on that that brand new concrete now if we're pressured for time we have some really urgent matters to attend to um we can use what's called high early Contra concrete which costs a little bit more uh but in special circumstances we've like we've used that downtown we'll use it in certain situations where if we really need to get those driveways poured and people driving on them right away because uh you know there's for example they don't have a lot of places to park on the street in one particular part of the neighborhood we will do that it's not a significant additional cost um tend to get a better product with normal concrete so we only like to use that if we have to but um it's always there as a tool um Can entire driveways be replaced the part of the project so sometimes folks will be thinking you know I've been meaning to replace my whole driveway the city's just doing the end of it maybe I should get the whole thing done can the city do that as practice generally no we don't do that we don't that sometimes contractors don't want to get into the liability of working on private Pro property they'd like to stay stick within the right of way which is you know City not property but City uh area for them to work in um sometimes they'll do that um what we tell folks is that we will share with you all our concrete subcontractor and our asphalt contractor and if you would would like to contact them and if they're interested or willing in getting into a relationship with private property owners that would be perfectly fine um and once in a while that happens some some folks don't want some contractors don't want to have anything to do with it sometimes they're like yeah sure no problem um and if they do wind up going with somebody else we just ask them to let us know so we can coordinate and we' prefer that they come in and do their stuff after we're done but maybe it makes sense to do do it the other way we just need to kind of talk about it look at it think think about what's the right way and then coordinate with their contractor or let them to know to let their contractor know when uh it would work best to work in and around our stuff so it's still achievable but it's just not something that the city has historically taken I don't know of too many cities that that do do it that way right but we always do get the question asked um how much of the driveway is replaced it depends on the driveway and the slope and you know usually it's only a couple few feet beyond that apron if we can uh you know snap and saw cut a nice clean line in an asphalt driveway and create a nice joint there we will if they have an existing concrete driveway we'll replace the concrete we'll probably go to the next logical joint where it makes sense to just kind of cut it there um I don't think we have too many gravel driveways but basically the policy is to replace uh behind the apron in kind whatever they have now so gravel for gravel asphalt for for asphalt um concrete for concrete that's the approach so it might might be 3 to 5 feet behind the the apron and the aprons are three to five feet I think also so uh generally the right of way is I think that's another FAQ here but it's actually the next one the RightWay is usually UH 60 to 66 feet wide and that depending on how wide the road is that's anywhere from like 10 to 14 feet off of the back of the curb as an imaginary line right and so we try to stay within that um if we can are they still going to be the same widths are they're not narrowing your roads at all are they correct no these are all that's a good question I should have said that yeah on this particular project no Chang there's not going to be no cutouts or anything like for the plow guys to be able to make a dipdo no no I don't think so yeah I I'll argue that all the time but that's part of our out on Charles Street and all that too yeah right whoever did that was yeah was that me no okay that was done before okay um yeah I mean the only time where uh I can think of and it wouldn't be necessarily a bump out but we might change the curb line a little bit would be like for Ada purposes where the PED ramps touch down and cross the road um sometimes it makes sense to do something a little bit different just because of the current regulations but it shouldn't be anything substantial and these guys always that's one of their number one comments is how am I going to plow this right and so I think um if we need to adjust we can always adjust and we try to do something that works best for everybody basic curb line and that's it right right yeah we would like morg or Morgan WSB um they'll give us 30% plans we'll sit down with Morgan um another one of their engineers and then we'll take some of our guys that actually are out in plow trucks and you know plowing and we look at stuff and we have some pretty candid uh conversations sometimes because the guys are like well I would have this or what is that so we do we do definitely try to look at the maintenance part of it you know um but with the some of these living streets plans that were put in place you know where there's medians and plantings and whatever obviously them aren't my first choice it's maintenance it's more stuff to go around but we got to kind of work you know there there's yeah there's always those balances right like Aesthetics versus maintenance versus cost versus yeah and so um we do try to deliver the best product that everybody's in agreement like and so one maintenance thing that we're building in it's kind of a minor detail but I mentioned that lift station in Casey Lake Park we're we have to contractor is going to access that area by the asphalt Trail that's uh on the North End of the park there that people use for walking now um so you know that's going to get scuffed up and we're already planning to repave that but at the end of that area um there's an opportunity to kind of redo how that trail fits around the lift station for access to the pumps access to the hatches and so we're trying to do um a minor Improvement there it's not for plowing purposes but to hopefully make it a little bit easier for the guys to get at the lift station and maintain the lift station yep just to get our jedar truck in there and be able to turn around and go in and come out the same way that we went in just cuz it's such a big truck you know it'll over build that path a little bit so it'll handle that truck and just for a maintenance standpoint yeah um mail and trash I mean the short answer of that version is or short version of that answer is that if there now I can't remember this neighborhood if it's home service if they got mailboxes but if there are mailboxes those get pulled out at the front end of the project and we put in kind of a group mailbox in a location that's usually dictated by the postmaster sometimes we get into arguments with the postmaster about where it should go U but they have to make that location work with their routing and where the mail care is going to drop all the mail um so people will have to pick up their mail in a different location usually for the majority of the summer uh and then when everything's done we will either put their originally salvaged mailbox if they want to keep it back uh or sometimes if you know we need to put a new Post in and put their old mailbox or if it's totally busted up we can give them a kind of you know standard mailbox to replace the one that was there before um and for trash uh usually things are supposed to operate on trash day like they normally do uh people should just leave their bins out at the end of the driveway or wherever they normally do but it's the contractor's responsibility because sometimes the trash hauler can't get in the same way so he the trash hauler there's a point of coordination usually this is one of the bumps in the road at the early part of the project usually we figure it out uh trash hauler might be need to come in and turn around uh like at the parking lot at shaune contractor's responsibility is to come and pick up all the trash bins at the ends of the driveways uh usually we ask people to put a piece of duct tape with their address number on the bin so they come back to the same place and the contractor will run those bins up to the trash hauler with a skid steer or something empty them out and then bring the bring the empty bins back so trying to make it hopefully um as close to similar as normal just sometimes the trash hauling truck isn't actually able to come right to the end of the driveway um and again that those are other things that contractors not getting paid extra for that they know it's written into the specifications that's what you got to do it's incidental to the project um work hours 7 to 7 Monday through Friday uh and Saturday 9 to 5 not always do we see the contractor working on Saturdays usually they're not interested in paying their uh folks overtime unless they're really getting pinched on schedule um so usually we don't see them work on Saturdays they have to ask permission on a Sunday or holiday or overnight work once in a great while that makes sense um I don't foresee it happening on this project but sometimes you see that uh because of you know like if it were mcnight Road and it's a busy road and sometimes it makes sense to do some night work but for this I think we'll probably have a pretty standard month through Friday 7 to 7 um sometimes contractors can cheat that and they like to show up at 5: in the morning and maybe they'll start their diesels warming up at 6:00 in the morning and that's not okay yeah and so we we tell them like you don't start your trucks until seven that's what it says sometimes they cheat that and we got to yell at them and then so anyway you know if we do hear that um yeah we know they're not supposed to they get told at the pre-construction conference that's not acceptable sometimes they have subcontractors and people that aren't underneath the prime contractor's thumb that need to be reminded so once in a great while that's another blip in the road that we need to address um and then areas of lawn so that's kind of been a big one um right now uh we the best approach is to replace any Disturbed lawn area with sod um industry standard for sad is that the contractor water Waters it maintains it for 30 days and then after that time the it's the homeowner's responsibility to take care of it and we give them a flyer that says do not cut your brand new sod short you will kill it and then there's nothing we can do about it um and we tell them like mowing short is uh one of them oh and then U and and if it gets really dry or hot after the sod goes in water it like um espe and if people are still on their temporary water that bypasses their water meter and so water is free so hopefully you know people but they you know generally want to make sure that the grass takes as well as it can um once in a while we have to go back the next spring and maybe replace a couple areas that might have died and we've made some minor exceptions but um we do try to stick with that knowing that we have communicated with everybody to say hey 30 days this is when you guys got to take it over here's all of the best ways to take care of it don't cut it too short make sure you're watering it so we're trying to give them all the best information and it's worked pretty well minor minor issues once in a while we have to replace a little bit here a little bit there and that might have to be at Cost but to try to keep folks happy and keep them um as calm as can be after having lived through an entire summer of a lot of heavy construction I think again those are some of the exceptions that if we think it's Justified we'll try to take care of that um we don't want to be too undue with the the burden here and growing grass is one of the last things to happen yeah um it's 6:28 if we can a couple seconds before we start the 630 that'd be great I think I've already mentioned the other things here about storage uh changes to the road you know irrigation and Landscaping I mean we try to protect that where we can and if they do need to come out or be repaired again we we work with the contractor to take care of that so uh oh go ahead just one thing quick we once this project gets going we have weekly meetings with the contract contractors out there on site so if there's stuff that you guys hear you know questions I me we meet with them weekly so you know like the starting early or if they're starting their trucks early we meet with them on a weekly basis to go over things to you know try to keep things on track so yep um it that is something we do throughout the project until we deem that you know we're at a spot where that doesn't need to be done anymore and on these projects really we usually have to have those weekly meetings all the way until the season ends right I mean just in case something comes up sure um so it's a a lot of communication not just with the residents but the contractor also all right well thank you yeah thank you guys for listening thank you all right you guys can call me any time or um you have other follow-up questions I'm always available all right okay thanks thank you all right call for adjournment so moved so move council member Norby second second second council member Ken all in favor say hi hi hi all right 7 to come back at 6:35 give us 5 minutes e