--------- workshop roll call please council member Nordby here council member Woods here council member Mongi here oh I'm sorry excuse me council member Mackenzie answer to anything as you can figure out council member Schwear is absent mayor Mongi
here the agenda please i'll make a motion council member Kinsey second second council member Woods all those in favor say I i i thank you topics all right we got two topics tonight um we're going to kind of flip them around I believe so first topic up
is going to be the first quarter 2025 budget update uh general fund and enterprise funds and we have uh finance director Winnick here to discuss well good evening mayor and council members uh is this working good um this
this item before you in the workshop I don't know if we can hear or not but um is really kind of giving a uh kind of a just a budget update on the first quarter of 2025 again it's it's it's early and you're going to see in there that we haven't received a lot of the
revenue um especially in the general fund because you know property taxes aren't due until May we don't get uh local government aid until June um so you're going to see a lot of that and it's you know this is really a speculation of of just looking at everything and kind of trends from past
years of where we kind of project that we would be at um so taking a look at the general fund and then our enterprise funds um and our general fund um as you're aware um you know the city council had approved a balanced budget of about $10.4 million um right now
we're kind of looking at um that for 2025 that we should be running positive about $142,000 and and again it's early in the year it's hard to to to really project um kind of the components to that um but
if we look at um the various departments that make up the general fund um right now I've got all of them in kind of a a positive um mode of looking you'll see one that has a a bigger loss in revenue
and then also a bigger expenditure reduction and that's the building inspections and that's the permits um and just from how the permits have come in for the first three months um will be down on both uh revenue and expenditures but they pretty much offset one another
um so it's not a big so it's not really a driving factor in the change of the fund balance um the only one right now kind of uh that needs to be kept a closer eye on throughout the the year is really our police and that's just
because we're finally getting to the point where we're getting a full complement but when we go through that hiring process it takes 3 to four months in some circumstances to train the individuals um in um and when we do that
um they're they're um partnered with another uh police officer and um for that shift we're paying um 3 hours at uh time and a half of FTO time field training officer time for for those
individuals so we have to keep an eye on on that one because uh even right now it's with the back fill I think we've expended about over $80,000 in overtime um but with the salary savings we've had and the other line items we've been okay
but that's something that we need to to uh be aware of as we move through the year um and keep an eye on that one all the rest of them look uh pretty good pretty much in line um and then if we kind of look at our enterprise funds um again change in fund balances um that
were approved in the budget are ups and downs but overall as I'm projecting out for the 2025 variance they all appear to be positive from uh where we had budgeted um and I think the the biggest one right now looking for a positive is
the electric fund um I've got it at about 388,000 uh wastewater at about 138 uh surface water at 130 um water fund at 84 um and so uh bottom line is we look pretty good
for right now and again it's 3 months worth things can change drastically as we go through the year um but we'll uh get on this cadence of having these quarterly meetings so we're always aware and so we we know and yeah and so we can look at seeing how things are playing
out throughout the year um that's our first item if there's any questions with that I certainly would um take those right now on either the general fund or the enterprise for 2025 no pretty pretty good looking forward to
the quarterly that's good news to be able to keep an eye on it get a good barometer the second item we're going to spend as much time as we as we want on um tonight because we got the remainder of the of the workshop and I think it's really critical that we do talk about this
first of all um there's some pizza so I I want everybody to make sure that they have a little bit um of pizza the reason for that is because we have something to celebrate um this organization has something to celebrate uh something that um for an organization that is uh
smaller um in um population um that is carrying um as much debt um that we do from a ratio standpoint um and that we have a little lower than uh median um income of our residents
here we've achieved something that is is is actually quite remarkable um to me what it sign what it's a sign is that it affirms what we the path that we have been on um the last three years um and
um I couldn't be prouder of this organization for the accomplishment i've I've uh titled this planning support and fiscal responsibility because that's how we got to where I'm going to show you in a second if you're unaware of of it I'll
give you a little bit of backdrop as you're all aware um we had a bond sale today um there's an item to um pass at city council about the bond results when you go into a bond sale you have a bond
rating call um and S&P performed that um and Brian and I um with our uh consultant Baker Tilly um Michaela who will be here later on this evening um we took that call brian did a magnificent
job of representing the city um somehow we really emphasized the positive things that have been happening in the past uh three years and as a result um this is what happened for the city um our bond rating um was
upgraded from a double A to A+ there's only one more step above that and that's the AAA bond rating um will we get there not with the amount of debt and that not with the the other parts but I I I I think that's something to to say about
us because I'm just I just quoted I just pulled out two quotes that came out of the S&P uh rating um which is attached to the document and I and I do think it's very important to read each and every word of these two the rating change reflects our view of the city's
material increase in available reserves to stronger levels than we expect it and we expect it to sustain it also reflects our our view of the city's relative relatively recent adoption of a formal fund balance policy as well as a
regularly updated long-term operating forecast which believe we believe demonstrate its commitment to maintaining structural balance a prudent approach to financial management including annually updated 10-year financial and capital
plans and up uh an adopted fund balance policy and routine budget amendments enabling the budget to track changing conditions further support credit quality that really speaks volumes and and what that really is coming down to
is that we have done an amazing job as an organization and it's not just one person this is a whole team it's a whole organization this comes from our city council our city manager it's our department heads um that have made this possible um but it it really is about
those 10-year capital plans planning planning um making it comprehensive making sure that we're covering everything that we possibly can anything that needs to be replaced anything that needs to be purchased um that's a capital item it's looking at our um you
know um our enterprise funds our internal service funds our um whether it's our park fund our general fund and we're doing 10-year um financial plans on there trying to get an idea of what type of rate increases we may end up having to do that as it incorporates our
expenditures for our our capital improvement um plan um it's making uh a commitment um which the city council has done um in 2025 being the second year of dedicating levies um for some of the items that we've
we've acknowledged that we're we're not funded to the right level to be able to take care of it um they happen to be infrastructural type of components um and being our facilities um our parks our roads um and that's a big commitment and that didn't happen by one person
that happened by a team um and so to have an outside organization uh write these comments um based upon a phone call and and financial information that they requested from us to submit to them is is really a big a big thing and to
have it upgrade um I I think uh Brian and I were quite surprised um that uh we got upgraded um we we we definitely um had talked before the call and and it was our desire we would like to push for that and we would try to because we've
done a lot of effort from an organizational standpoint to get us there um but we were we were told by our consultant that that doesn't normally happen it's very rare that you get an upgrade like that and that uh many cities when they do an upgrade have to
do a song and dance and invite them in invite uh you know the bond raider here kind of show off the city and so forth um and that's where I I I think um again um our city manager Brian did a stellar job of of really selling the city and and the things um the city has done and
that all came from the direction of the of the city council past and present um and so um I I I think it's something that we really need to um acknowledge that uh we've come a long I'm I'm going to use we've come a long way baby uh you
know from the from the time that I came here um that uh we've really put ourselves in a much better financial position um with planning um so planning what have we done we've done the 10-year capital improvement plans we have the 10-year financial plans we've done
policy updates um and you saw that in their comments uh where we've updated our purchasing policy we've updated our our uh fund balance policy um we do budget projections and monitoring um you know it's that old planning planning
planning um support um none of this would have been able to happen if it wasn't for the support that we've received from city council um I you know Brian had asked me the other day I or I had said to him I said you know you
realize in July I'll have been here for four years he goes four years wow that's gone quick um it really has uh it's gone quick from the standpoint that it's just uh from the again I've said the story many times from the first day that I
came here I felt welcomed and uh almost four years later I still feel that same way and still feel energetic and and love coming to work here at the city of North St paul a big part of that is the city council um has been very supportive good questions um uh wanted to you know
want to find out the information um and that's what staff is supposed to do uh give the information so city council can make the best decisions possible for the city city manager um my time here we've had our ups and downs on the city manager um I think one constant that
that's been there has been Brian um when I first came walking in the door he was interim um we had a city manager for a little while he came back in as the interim uh finally everybody uh wised up and we made him permanent uh but uh he's
been a great support of mine um and uh you know he's uh been been an individual that from again day one a lot of people don't realize that uh he was a very important part of making me feel welcome because you've heard me say that I came from an organization Ramsey County which
I absolutely loved it was my home i was there for over 32 years um I came here that's a big change um Brian sat six out of eight Fridays i like to go and have a good time on Friday brian wouldn't let me do that he'd sit there for hours and
talk to me uh but uh made me feel welcome um and then the department heads I I think you realize it i've heard city council make the comments uh we really have an exceptional group of department
heads um you know we have uh one in the audience there that is probably um you know second to none um as far as uh their diligence i know you probably don't see him or I probably I'd have to
introduce him um but uh the diligence uh you can give them uh a project and he's going to be pricing it uh any which way to make sure that uh the city's getting uh the best bang for the buck um very resourceful um he's uh very well he's
very blessed that he has uh Randy Miller uh being his superintendent the two of them work very very well together all of our department heads whether it's Jason Miller and or Jason Melinger in our um uh fire um department to uh John Wick in
electric um I should probably say your name Ron um at public works um Ray Rosales as our police chief um and then we'll be having a community development director coming in I believe on the 28th uh I think I
think the team is is very set that um there's a whole different vibe and feel on our department head meetings um we had one at 8:00 this morning where you know individuals are free to share things um and really have those conversations and uh that's important
and then staff um you know at the end of the day staff is what makes this this place successful um and we have some amazing staff um and I I I my familiarity with that is that I see a lot of the community development side
and the finance side um excellent comm community uh customer service uh relations um I hear stories left and right and you see the results um public works um can snow at any point in time those individuals for six months out of
the year their lives are on hold you never know if you're going to be called in called not um but they're there um electric um what kind of response time do you have you very rarely ever see our electricity in this city ever down um
you know um that's amazing um and um it's just a great great environment um I talked to our police force um and our fire department um always dedicated always there um we're finally getting to the point where we're going to be
hopefully at full complement in the police department uh so we just have so many great assets um and then we can't overlook a person who's sitting to my left who does so much for our organization um you know in city clerk
type of functions and our HR and that's Jenny jenny's been you know instrumental all of that all of that together is what's made this all possible um of getting that bond uh rating increase so
that's a lot of the good news um in the in fiscal responsibility and kind of I just kind of put some bullets you probably have a lot of other things but it's a conservative approach you know when we prepare our budgets we we do a conservative approach i don't um I
purposefully don't um budget all of the interest income that we plan on getting each year why because need to make sure that we're going to be able to hold that 50% fund balance in our general fund um and that's important um our department heads are very diligent and you've heard
me speak to that um you know Ron and and Jason are are two of the very best when it comes to to that financial stability um we've achieved it um we have we have very good uh reserves um based on our fund balance policy um we're sitting in
a pretty good position moving forward um things can change it's a snapshot in time things can change there's there's there's new demands there's uh you know new priorities um and we're going to get into a little bit more of that uh into discussion here as we move forward
taking a a snap snapshot look at the 2026 budget um and good stewardship um you know um that that's probably one of the biggest importance um I I used to uh present a training in Ramsey County on
on purchasing and the guidelines for purchasing and one of the things that uh I would always stress is is to individuals to treat the money as if it were their own uh it was kind of kind of interesting i would talk to people and and whether they were um having a little
home project done they would go out and get four or five bids because they thought the price was too high yet all of a sudden they come into government and it's kind of like a it's so cumbersome you know what do I got to get this bid I got to get that bid and that oh just just have them do it you know what's the difference well we're playing
with somebody's money um and we met we better make sure that u we're doing our job and we're being prudent and we're being good stewardships um and I think we do i think this organization does an exceptional job on that so here comes now into tough
conversations in in the future um we start to look at the 2026 budget um and kind of a starting point and and this is based on our planning to date as as I've mentioned that uh city council um to
date for the past two years have been dedicating some levy increases to the parks facilities and street plans um if we continue that um in which is is really required um based upon our capital um improvement plans that total
increase is $433,000 or approximately a 5.6% levy increase that's kind of our starting point of where we're at items that are being discussed by city council that have not been included in
any of our planning in in our capital improvement plan um to date is the community center as far as the operational costs we do have the capital in there um as you remember from um last year um the HGA park studies has not
been included into um the capital improvement plan and then it doesn't include if we were to be seeking any additional staffing levels um within our organization so again bring you back we're already at about a
5.6 it does not include any of these um so some of the strategies that we're going to be looking at as we move into preparing the budget for your review and questions is that we're going to be challenging our department heads to reduce costs where possible um and we're
going to be taking a hard look at what historical costs have been um why they need um those funds um making sure that we are tightening up our budget as much as possible on the expenditure side uh we're going to examine surpluses for
opportunities to minimize the levy increase um we've done very well um we've performed very well um as you're aware you know for the general fund um we had approximately a million dollar surplus some of that's needed to
maintain our 50% fund balance per our policy some of it can be utilized um we'll take a look at that um and see what we can what we can do um once we've finalized finalized the audit then I can start to put together our our 10-year
financial plans there may be if we're performing better in some of the other funds there may be some some excess um surplus that that's in there based upon our plan we have to remember um all of
that surplus is one time um you spend it it's gone um so we have to be looking at that and keeping in mind what is our plans um what's in our capital improvement plan and again a capital improvement
plan is meant to change um so city council is going to have to balance those needs um and it's going to be balancing those needs you know based on those on those three unknowns that we have right there meaning on part of it
on the community center part of it on the our park system and then part of it if there's staffing um needs um but we're going to need part of that surplus to meet the fund balance policy um again it's only one-time expenditures because
once it's gone we don't have it anymore um and right now and part of our disclosure that we give to S&P for the rating is that we're we were bonding here in 25 per the plan we're bonding 27
bonding 29 for streets there wasn't bonding for some other items onto it and if we vary from that plan the next time we have a bond rating our bond rating has a good chance of going down because we're carrying more and more debt
kind of want to talk about debt for a second to kind of put things into perspective that there's many times that um I hear a comparison um with our city in the city of Mounds View um we're
comparable in size our makeup's a little bit different um we're much more heavily on residential um they have a little bit more commercial um they have a decent fund balance they're over 50% fund balance um and
they actually have [Music] um some additional fund balance that they have put in that is for future plans for future expenditures um and still maintaining the 50% so they're
higher in in their general fund fund balance in aggregate than we are um but we're not too far off of it um but what really hurts us is you heard me earlier talk about there's two components there's the lower median income and debt
so I just kind of pulled this out of out of out of the financial statement for Mounds View for the year that ended 2023 24 isn't available yet um but um governmental activities um which includes your general fund um
and a number of other funds and then there's business type those are your enterprise in governmental they have at the end of 2023 a total debt of just under $5 million in governmental anybody want to guess what
ours is in governmental in governmental not tax increment just the governmental zero pardon zero i wish no see this is the this is the hard part this is this is the difficult part to
it we have $20.5 million of debt outstanding at the end of 2023 business type activities mountains View at the end of 2023 it's under 5.2 million anybody want
to guess what we have $15.7 million they're at a little over 10 million we're at 36 what does that mean they have a larger base with commercial
too yeah but what ends up happening is when we have that much debt in our enterprises for example means we have to have a higher rate because we have payments
that we have to make for debt payments so let's kind of look at that business since I brought it up so for 2024 uh Mounds View had principal and interest um bond payments of
$431,000 we had just under 2 million in our enterprise funds so think of you have to raise that much more revenue every year to be able to pay that debt that's why our rates are
starting off the ground floor yeah much more that's why our rates are higher now let's look at governmental and primarily it's going to be your general fund component to it u because that's where you you have to generate a debt levy uh Mountains View
474,000 ours just under 1.6 million so when you look at that difference of over a million dollars divide that by what our levy is and you're going to quickly see that you know we got about
12% increase in our levy just to cover that annual year what it equates to that's why we have higher property tax rates so one of the things that we've been trying to do in our strategies and we implemented in in uh uh 2024 and 25 is
the second year is by the dedication of that levy and those levy increases is what we're trying to do is to build up that we are actually starting to pay things more in cash than in debt um and if we can move that way obviously View
is there um so they're in a much better position that they can afford to do other things um and we can't so we raise our levy up higher to be able to do that um but in time if we keep on the plan
we'll we'll be in a position like a Mounds View um but that comes with a pain as you saw it's 5.6 to keep on our path that we're at of a levy increase um we can't continue to keep taking the 5.6 six and then adding on top of that
and ending up being in double digit levy increases um because we have residents um and we need to be aware of those residents and part of that it's a real tough balance um I think we've been seeing over the past few years um it hasn't really hit the property tax side
yet but we see more and more um um some of the the information that was given um delinquencies in our utilities um or you know we're spend spending we're spending money just mailing out um um disconnect
notices uh more staff time talking trying to make payment arrangements um part of that is you got a lower median income community and you got higher rates on your water wastewater surface water um
so our city manager said "We have to establish some goals and taking all of that into consideration and saying,"Hey our target for 2026 is going to be a 6% levy increase." I look at it and say "He's
nuts." He likes when I say that too we're already at 5.6 to keep ourselves on the path that means I got point4 to play with everyone in for a levy that's going to be tough what are some of the circumstances already playing with a union contracts of a 4%
cost of living increase that I'm going to have to give everybody in 2026 it's like how am I going to make this um and that's where I I gave a little of this information to our department heads today um I don't think any of them like
me right now um no I'm just kidding is that we're gonna have to challenge our department heads to reduce costs um find ways to I'm sorry are you able to put your thing on the middle again oh oh sorry i'm blind
is it Is it back it was there to start with was there earlier oh there we go thank you sorry about that Dad so we're going to be challenging our department heads
um and I have no doubt that they're up to the task um excellent crew um we're also um our city managers also set our goal is no utility rate increases told you he was
nuts just kept on getting better um and he said if we have additional requests or needs we need to start prioritizing what those are in other words what he what he's saying with that is that we got a capital improvement plan it's
going to change um we looked at it we'll just take like uh the HGA parks um if we start to put that into our capital improvement plan our plan we can't afford it um so what comes out um how do we prioritize what's the highest
priority um staff definitely will try to do that but that's where city council is really going to have to weigh in um on the vision of the city and how do we get there um you know what do we implement things will not be done overnight they're going to take time and planning
um but that's part of what planning is all about and then we try to identify and make sure that we have the the funding sources um over time to be able to get there um and that's the path that we're on um and again um our bond upgrade is showing we're on the right
path um so we got to keep doing that and then um this goal is to hold our our current staffing levels um to where they're at um right now um own my own perspective of what I've been seeing um I think we're good in all of our
departments i'm not hearing department heads asking for positions i know towards the end of last year um we had uh the police chief um talking about the future and a number of additional positions um that that are needed um
right now I in and even going into 2026 I think that's premature um and the reason why I say that is because we've had so much vacancy um we really need to get to the point where we're steadily on um a path of uh full complement and
being able to see what are the numbers of responses and so forth before we start moving forward with adding additional staff um on that side let's play let's let's see what we really have we haven't gotten there yet we've been close a couple of times even underneath
uh police chief uh Babinroth uh and then all a sudden um we end up losing a lot um and so I think right now um we're at uh three vacancies um there's some hiring out there um our investigator just came on board on Monday um seems
like a a wonderful individual um he was one of the four that was uh vacant so we got three um so we're getting close um I think you know I think by about June or July we hopefully will be at full and hopefully we stay that way for a while
but before we start adding um staffing levels I think we need to achieve that the rest of the departments I think we're we're pretty adequately funded at this point in time um not to say that things won't change in the future but that's kind of the city manager's direction is is really that we need to
look at that and we have to take into perspective that if you add an FTE to the police and they're a police officer you know with benefits you know that's pretty close to a 2% levy increase to be
able to afford that um and again with the target of 6% um you know that that just would be very difficult to do so I'm going to leave you right there and questions and I want to have a dialogue of kind of where we're at
questions how did how does all this sound to you what are your thoughts um are we heading in the right direction um kind of throw it out there um yeah I I mean I think that this is
definitely you have to start somewhere and I think um your the city manager's position is a great place to start um we may need to adjust it but yeah it's you have to
start again you have to start somewhere um what opportunities exist outside of levy increases for funding for some of the other projects for other projects um there's always the you know uh the opportunity and I don't
know if they exist or not but there's you know usually grants that are out there um that you know we need to make sure that we're pursuing if if they're available um I can't tell you which ones are off you know off the top of my head or out there but I mean that's always an opportunity at the end of last year we
talked about uh some of those components of looking at the revenue side you know and some of those were um you know the cannabis um you know is that a potential for a revenue source you know at the end of the day it's either you have to increase your revenue and hopefully it's
not just tax levy um that's going to our you know to our taxpayers um that you're generating additional revenue or you have to cut your expenditures um and that's you know where we're at um now from the budget perspective um we're
going to go at it at first of looking at okay is there ways that we can cut that budget so let's look at you know kind of the reality of things and and yeah a lot of it's due to at times of vacancies and so forth but in the general fund since I've been here we've probably been
averaging about $800,000 worth of surplus every year um so that means there's an opportunity to cut something um yeah I'm not I'm not saying that there can't be a a time where there's an emergency and we go above that well that's where we come back to city
council and you allocate some of your fund balance to cover those um needs and components to it so we do need to to to make sure that we're we're more in line with kind of the actual components of of where we're at um and so that's our
first look at it the other revenue um thoughts that were given there of looking at I think you know the potential of a uh you know a downtown uh like snow removal fee um again that's not a huge wouldn't be a huge amount for
us um but we also need to be aware that um you know the state is going to um be faced with some challenges ahead um when we when I talk about that um it's not necessarily in the bi
bianium of 26 and 27 uh right now in the 26 27 um they're looking at a deficit of about $456 million um that's a little bit uh of an improvement from their prior estimate the real problem is going
to be in the 28 and 29 um right now they're looking at a $6 billion deficit and that's part of what the governor right now and and the the House and the Senate are are challenging with is that they need to start making
some cuts now um to kind of alleviate that that big hit in 2829 we have to we have to remember we all know cuts go downhill so the rest of the city and then we have to turn around and do the taxpayers that's exactly
where I was going and one of our biggest um components for us that were at risk is local government aid um and you know and and that's over $1.6 million for us um and you remember that there's been multiple years in the past where they've
talked about cutting that um and then that went away and then in the past few years it's been increasing um but that is something that definitely could be you know could happen to us you know
and so the question we need to ask ourselves are are we prepared um yeah we're prepared right now but we're not prepared if we start spending too much of that surpluses in our in our surpluses meaning you know our fund balances and we put ourselves then we're not ready for that rainy day um
component to it and then our only choices are to increase the levy even that much more we don't want to be in those positions and that's why again right now we're sitting very very well from a financial position but all of that can be changed and distorted in a moment um we also have to be aware and
this was part of the conversation after I called our city manager nuts that he gave me some of his reasoning behind it and part of it is is that we're just in really some uncertain times um just you know the our nation um and um you know
are there tariffs that are going to be coming and start to increase different costs um are they not what kind of impact they're going to have um you know uh Brian and I were sweating all weekend long um on this bond issuance that we're
we're going to um approve tonight why because you know we're if you looked at this it wasn't just just the stock market that went up and down um it's really confused the heck out of the bond market um and that's probably more
troubling than the stock market is to be totally honest with you um and you can see a lot of experts will say the the the same thing um it things aren't reacting the way they should um when the Feds meet um in in May more than likely
there's not going to be a a reduction in the in the rates why inflation starting to tick up again um so there's so much uncertainty that's happening and it's not just happening in the US it's global um so those are are things that we have
to be aware of unemployment is is looking as ticking up um and so again that can impact our residents and so that's where you know Brian had come up with 6% the you know in his mind was getting to the about the most that he
wanted to to see us being at you know unless there's some other needs and there's justifications but that's kind of where we're how he came up with that target component to it um so there's a lot of uncertainty um we were you know if you looked at just last week bond
rates went up 50 basis points that's a half a percent allen just like that um so um I'm on the phone with Michaela on Friday and then and talking to Brian um
you know we're we're looking at the possibility of of the interest rates being upwards to a percent higher than we had anticipated for this bond issuance um we were on calls on on Monday we had to make a decision do we
pull it because it goes out it went out today and the sale was at 10:00 do we pull it um we we at the at the uh 11th hour yesterday we we got a little bit of good news um from our consultant that a
sale had gone um and it actually got some pretty good rates um and so we threw the dice out there and we decided okay you know we're we're going to go for it um and uh so we had the sale today and it came back it came in to where we thought it would come in it
didn't go the high route to it and so you know we'll be making the recommendation tonight for city council to to approve that um but we were faced with and this is another component I'm the reason why I'm saying this is this is kind of a reason why we do need to be
moving over to that cash basis versus debt basis because we're we're relying on whatever those interest rates are that 1% change over 20 years amounted to in principal interest and obviously it's
going to be interest um increase of $864,000 on that $6.7 million bond issuance that's a big change now I look at it and say you know we're going to be showing you tonight overall true
interest rate what we got it was about a 4.02 um even at five historically that's not bad i mean we can go back to you know early 80s and and you can see 14
16% but what's that type of an impact um how would we if they start to rise up that high how do we do 27 bond issuance for streets or 29 um or if there's other needs that we end up having um for
instance let's say city council makes that decision and say "Hey you know I want to take care of the Mcnite field and I want to do everything that HGA had said." Only way we could do that today would be going out for bonding if we were to bond with the uncertainty what happens
if all of a sudden it's an 8% well we couldn't afford it if it was at four um how do we do it at eight um so those are some of the the risks and concerns that you know we're moving forward in in in the environment but um the good news is
we're positioned very well right now um but what it really means is that we have to continue planning we need to have and we need to challenge one another we need city council to challenge us um we need to make sure that we're prioritizing things and we're doing the right thing
according to our vision for the city um with the resources that we have um and yes uh directly uh Council Member Woods we do need to look at other revenue streams to make sure um that we're not just so solely heavily so heavily
rellyant on the on the property tax uh we do need to find some other revenue sources to help offset that um it's it's imperative so on average right now this was 5 something yeah 5.6 is that kind of
like is that going to be like a what we're going to start off on most years i mean because when you say $20 million in debt we got to pay that debt and we got to do all this other stuff so I mean is this pretty much going to be you know a minimum of 5% because we're I mean I don't know how much of this 20 million
will be able to be bought down how big you know is there any kind of bonds or anything that are coming up that are bigger ones that are going to fall off uh nothing's falling off we had one fall off this year um but now we're putting one back in um you know if it gets
approved tonight um that uh No nothing in in a real close um So we can expect peace yeah um but you know what that really is is so how I have it in the plan if you if you
remember when I look at um debt I'm keeping our for our 10-year street plan I'm keeping our debt as if it were the same even if it goes higher I'm keeping it the same as long as we levy that
3.25% for streets once that debt goes up higher it just means more of it goes gets shifted to debt and less goes to the streets if that makes sense so like this past year um on that 3.25%
um which you know amounts to you know maybe about [Music] $225,000 because we lost a bond payment out of there about $460,000 i got to take that $460 plus the other and put all of that to streets
so we actually and then there was a little bit more but it was actually like $800,000 that moved over to streets to keep that level playing now when the debt in 25 will bring us back to where we were 27 29 will go higher we still
are at that 3.25 um for the street component to it so at the end of the day it's not the debt necessarily driving that component because I've got it planned out for the 10 years it's yes to yes we're going to be at that 5.6 every year unless we use
and that's part of the strategy is that are there some surpluses because the streets um parks um facilities a lot of those expenditures are one-time expenditures or capital expenditures i mean they're
recurring as far as a useful life is concerned but we can then take some of that surplus and maybe for instance if in my plan and I haven't had a chance to get to this point so in my plan if 1% of a levy
increase um over the 10 years means that you would have generated I'll say a half a million dollars for sake of conversation a half a million dollars but we have a surplus of a half a million dollars We may be able to lower
that part of that 5.6 down as a levy increase 54 makes sense too because as we do more then you have more interest payments then less roads until either you put more in that levy fund or till we move over to more of a Yeah
till we move over to more of a cash basis less and less of Yeah yeah how often do you guys sell off your bonds is it once a year or is it right time wrong time end at the beginning of the year end of the year how do they do that um
right now we're on a two-year cycle that's where 25 seven and nine are are the years for the bonds that are in included in the capital improvement plan um you obviously to get the work done you know the the work can't begin until
um road restrictions are pulled um and so you want to be ready to go um you know May time of the year April May May is usually the time you want to get started so to be able to get ready for May you know this this whole process
started last year um with our engineer WSB starting to do plans um and working with with Ron and Randy um to get the plans on what's the next road that's going to be done and start to get preliminary cost estimates and then we
started the whole bond process to cor to correspond and you see we kind of timed it out pretty good um because uh last was it Monday Tuesday that bids came in for the roads um bids just came in you're going to see tonight um to award
for the job and at the same time you're going to he had a bond sale today to award for the basically the funding for that streets so we time things out pretty good but it's usually going to be in the first quarter of the year for sure that we do that um so it's every
two two years um well right now we got the debt so the only way we can do it is to spend more conservatively and budget better because we have to pay that and that is something that we got to do so our side which we've been doing the last
few years is making sure we're not piling on so $20 million that we have as debt how often do we make a payment on that or to drop the debt down or how
often do they make payments like this once a year so your your regular bond payments are principal and interest are due February 1st and then August versus just interest um so basically principles once
a year um we look um at it every single year based upon interest rates where the bond rates are at um if it's hit a certain target like this bond and I think it was council member Nordby had asked on this issuance um we're locked
into this for 10 years after end of 10 years we could refund it so if the interest rates were better than we have now um and you know we can save enough um by refunding it we would refund it because when you anytime you issue bonds there's there's issuance costs there's
other costs that are associated no different than if you refinance a mortgage um and so we need to make sure that we're going to hit that break even point and then we refund um so we have um and then if we end up having uh enough cash in the in the debt fund for
that bond um you know when it's down to about the last two or three years there's a good opportunity that there might be part of the reason for that is because you're required to levy 105% of of your debt payment um part of
that is that 5% over is supposed to be um you know to make sure that if you have some delinquent taxes that you've got enough money to make your bond payments but this city has been very good has had very low percentages of delinquencies and property taxes um
historically so there is money that gets accumulated in that um bond fund and so we've had the opportunity that in the last two years we've accumulated enough money to make those payments that we can pay early and pay off that debt a few years earlier so in other words instead
of the 20 years we've been fortunate enough to get you know sometimes 18 17 years being able to pay off a debt um or we'll look at it can we refund to get lower interest rates in other words reducing our our interest in and payments so has it been below 20 million
prior where things keep adding up or are is it on a depletion of the amount that we owe each year that we're paying off um good good question until this year that's been going up um and so we just
had a bond um that was originally um issued um off the top of things for public works facility um it was refunded um because there were lower interest rates from the original um issuance um so that
one last payment was in February so we did not levy for that um in 2025 so you levy for in 2025 for the bond payment that's in 2026 so you levy so you have the money at the end of the year to pay it in February 1 um we didn't have to do
that for for that um um issuance grow from all the projects getting the the growth of new places like uh anchor and all that is that a lot of the the bonds for the roads and things like that the construction that was done for those
places um a lot of those are underneath TIFFs um so which is a different one which is a different Yeah so in other words part of those taxes are being captured yeah underneath the tiff to pay off those bonds reconstruction
for like the new downtown yes yep that's where a lot and that's where a lot of it has been yeah so to answer your question it had been on the rise up until this year then it went down and now with this bond issuance that we just had barring
the approval of city council tonight it'll bring us back to where we just were and then obviously 27 to 29 will raise it up again but again that 10-year plan has it that you won't notice that because you've been increasing again if
you're holding to that 3.25% for streets and 5% when I first moved here in 96 where you know was $1,000 $900 a year 5% on that but now the average is like 4,000 probably around here I would imagine yeah around 4,000 something for per property top of
that it does it it adds up it adds up yeah yep and that's that's kind of the challenge of of where we're at um again I you've heard me say this you know eventually when you're paying cash you're saving um and that's where that
again you know and I always use just the rule of thumb of you know one uh $1 million at a 5% for 20 years is you're doing a principal interest payment of about 80,000 that means over 20 years you paid 1.6 um you just heard me say
the example of 1% increase on on tonight's um would have amounted to $864,000 um that's how much it can impact but if you got the cash you don't have to worry about those things um but
at the end of the day um you know we do have uh infrastructural needs and so we do need to figure out a way to be able to do that and I think the path that we've started with this planning I think we're doing an excellent job um and again the really thing that we need to
look at is is you know again there's two sides of the equation revenue expense um how do we cut expenses um we all know what our expenses are um so that's open for conversation with city council how do how do we reduce that um expenditures
um you know if you look at our general fund um you know you saw the departments when we looked at that you know which departments that there are um you know how do you reduce those expenditures and in in those and providing the same level of service um the other side to it is
revenue um what how can we generate more revenue without it being that property tax component and that's a that's a tough one there's a lot of work that needs to be done with with that voter dan Brian I I can't thank you guys enough um this increase in the bond rating is amazing um you guys need to
take a moment to pat yourselves on the back both of you um and thank all your staff as well um absolutely amazing so thank you um two questions um a does this bond rating increase um is there
any opportunity there to um uh help with our prior debt um it depending on how aggressive you choose to be is there any room for play there and B um when does when do we need to start the conversation um if this is something the
council chooses to do um on the tax moratorum um so when it does end if we choose to for revenue generation okay you have to give me a little bit more explanation on that one the first one is um does the double A uh plus help
us on our current it could help us on our current again depending on where interest rates of the existing bonds are and where they were uh that plus basically says we have less risk um which means it lowers the interest rate
that you would get if that change from where we were at what we would have gotten and the in the market changes enough through an analysis that says we can refund then yeah we could end up then switching that from a no refund to
a refund um and be able to save some money from that um and again we look at that um on an annual basis okay um and so we'll do a review now um just on this past year at being double A+ and where
rates are in comparison and see where we're going to end up and see if there's any opportunities second one explain a little bit this the sales tax moratorum oh yes oh sales tax I think um yeah that should be ending um and so we need to
take a deeper dive onto that um usually it's for a you know more of a specific type of project um that you're you know um generating that sales tax for um so we do need to take a look and start to to plan that um
and have those discussions i just want to make sure we're having the conversation at the appropriate time so if we choose to as a council we can be at the ground floor of when that moratorum's over yeah and so I think you know this year is the the you know the year I think we need to I think it was
uh University of Minnesota extension offers um pretty reasonable services in in doing the sales tax and a number of cities around us have have taken advantage of that and I think we need to end up doing that yes this year you want to say something say you know
we did implement a couple of different things this year commercial oh yes oh uh the uh uh late payments so we have implemented some Oh
absolutely absolutely yes good good good point um I when I became mayor one of the things I asked from both you guys is the good the bad and the ugly on everything and so I really appreciate that because we need to have everything and I'm glad we're comfortable enough where you bring it
all to us we need to know it all we need to understand and uh so it's good to be able to have the frank conversations and understand what where we're at where we need to be what's good and what isn't working so I just want to say thank you to everybody there for that too and of
course the the double A plus was a was excellent news and thanks to everybody at the city everybody did such a great job to be able to get that so Dan I don't know the answer but like today correct that's what I had yeah and is that the same
with previously um I can't answer that off the top i definitely will go and look at that most of them have most most have hit past that 10-year piece to it that are governmental um so yeah so that's what we look at every year to make sure where the rates are and if we
can take an advantage of that yeah the rates are consider what the feds put out each day week whatever right what the feds are putting out well that's a part feds are putting out every day yeah that's well it's it's a part of it it really is driven by the market you know
demand you know supply and demand um the the Fed's interest rate is really kind of brings kind of like the bottom you're never going to see rates go below that um you know so when they were you know ratcheting up in interest rates all interest rates then go up even higher
than that so eventually when they get to the point where they can start to lower it down again their target is a 2% inflation is what they've been working at and saying for quite a while um if we got to that point we'd see the interest rates going down and then uh the market would then hopefully adjust to that
again right now for weird reasons the bond market isn't reacting the same way as it traditionally would you know based upon the stock market move too so we have to keep our eyes on that but yes we are are are diligently always looking and
analyzing to make sure that if we can save something yeah all right anybody else no not thanks again appreciate everything thank you very much any other business that you're looking at doing for tonight if
not I'll call for adjournment so moved so moved council member Woods second council member Mackenzie all those in favor say I i i thank you we'll come at 6:30 good to see you how are you yeah good to see you how you doing got to go in
Thursday Part: 2
all right we're not having Cassie's not here so we're going to be ready to start in a minute here once uh once Jenny gets back to the helm ready okay
stand for pledge of allegiance please to the flag of the United States of Americ here thank you very much can I get a motion to adopt the agenda please so moved so move council member Woods second council member McKenzie all those
in favor say I i thank you presentations all right we got two presentations this evening the first one up is the Arbor Day proclamation whereas in 1872 the Nebraska Board of Agriculture established a special date to be set aside for planting of trees and whereas this holiday called it Arbor Day was
first observed in the planting of more than a million trees in Nebraska and whereas Arbor Day is now observed throughout the nation and the world and whereas trees can be a solution to providing climate change and reducing erosion of our precious top soil by wind
and water cutting heating and cooling cost monitoring the temperature cleaning the air producing life-giving oxygen and providing habitat for wildlife and whereas trees are a renewable resource giving us paper wood for homes fuel for our fires and countless other wood
products whereas trees in our city increase property values enhance the economic vitality of business areas and beautify our community and now therefore Mayor John Ni for the city of North St paul Minnesota does hereby
proclaim Friday April 25th 2025 as Arbor Day in North St paul and I urge all of the citizens to celebrate Arbor Day and support the efforts to protect our trees and woodlands thank you the next presentation is uh
National Animal Therapy Day whereas there are thousands of pet pet partner therapy animal teams serving communities across the United States whereas scientific research shows that interacting with therapy animals can reduce stress relieve depression slow
heart rate lower blood pressure and strengthen the immune system and whereas therapy animal teams in the city of North St all play an essential role in improving human health and well-being through the human animal bond and whereas these exceptional therapy animals who partner with their human
companions bring comfort and healing in those in need and whereas therapy animal encourages the people of the city of North St paul to celebrate the therapy animals and their human handlers so now therefore on behalf of the city council and the city of North St paul Mayor John
Mangi for the city of North St paul does hereby proclaim Tuesday April 30th 2025 as National Therapy Day thank you next up is our consent agenda so item A April 1st 2025 workshop and
regular meeting minutes item B general claims of 1,188,89363 item C H claims of 37,46465 item D proposed ordinance amending chapter 117 of the North St paul City Code consumption and display permits item E parks and open space master plan
final approval item F ASME non-essential union supplemental agreement item G charitable gambling permit Metro North Metro Flex Academy annual carnival May 9th of 2025 item H building permit
report for March of 2025 and item res thank you anybody like to pull anything no if not can I get a motion to adopt the consent agenda so moved your honor so moved council member Norby second second council member Woods all those in
favor say I i i thank you open to the public jeff Schmidt is it yes all right how are you i'm good yourself good um I'm here tonight uh I'm Jeff Schmidt uh 251616th
Avenue East North St paul uh nearly and I'm here on behalf of St peter's Catholic Church nearly lifelong member there and nearly lifelong resident and uh I'm just here to ask for your consideration as you consider the um special event um umbrella license fee
changes that uh if there can be any consideration to nonprofits or churches or that sort of thing um so it doesn't negatively impact um their ability to host um events with food trucks or craft
shows or whatever the case may be so and uh that's why I'm here all right you appreciate it thanks for coming all right kid Carrie welcome good evening carrie Urban i'm here on
behalf of the Church of St peter at 2600 Margaret Street feels really weird to sit on that side of the room um like Jeff said um we're really concerned about the proposed changes in um the special event permit um for us the ability to if we lose that umbrella
license which we've operated on the last several years um it's really going to inhibit our ability to attract food trucks to the city of North St paul now people can say just take from the car show well after 13 weeks of eating car show food they're all delicious but we
kind of like a little variety and we we'd like to bring in some different trucks where the issue comes in um is the fee the fee for the city because we charge our trucks a participation fee that's how we that's a big part of our
fundraiser so we charge them $100 a day to be there and my ability to pay for an umbrella fee that covers all their licenses makes us an attractive city to come to and an attractive event um we're a growing event um we've been growing
for we've been doing business this way for the last five or six years we'd very much like to continue it that way i'm concerned that if they have to pay for the license that we're not an attractive venue anymore um and that's what we're here to to please ask you to humbly
reconsider doing that i just want to clarify that when we have an umbrella license which we've been able to get from the city our trucks are still going through all the due diligence with the city they're still submitting their insurance they're still submitting their
Ramsey County food license and they're still either submitting their um fire inspection or they'd have to get one um the thing with our event is we're midepptember by the time trucks get here they've been inspected thousands of time i have trucks who are coming from the
state fair i mean they're they're they're good they've been inspected and for them to have to pay that additional fee and help us with their contributions to participate really will um inhibit our ability to track trucks so again I
humbly humbly as a nonprofit in your city who is only a year younger than you we are for we were um dedicated in 1889 so we've been neighbors a long time um please as an area nonprofit I please
ask you to um consider letting us keep business the way it is with the umbrella permit um there's no threat to um health and safety and I see Jenny's clock is going to run out on me so thank you for any consideration you can give us and I hope you'll see I hope you come to our
festival September 20th and 21st nice thank you Carrie thank you appreciate that all right jump into city business action items item eight approve ordinance amending chapter 122 of the North St
paul city code which is a special permit let me turn that over to attorney Jeff is going to speak to it good evening mayor members of council uh so before you you have uh something of a cleanup ordinance um on the um special
event permits and food truck or food vendor permits uh that have been handled here uh so what this specific ordinance is doing is actually removing a vendor license requirement that is currently inactive under the code so how it used
to work is the event had to get a you know a blanket event permit and then each vendor had to get a vendor license which was a fairly proforma thing uh now we have um put in place a slightly more
robust food vendor permit uh and that was we've had this discussion that was with the fire department um there were some you know safety concerns that way uh and the city council has already approved those permits requiring those
permits so that is an annual permit for food vendors um with the city of North St paul um for food trucks I and then it would be a day of inspection if it's a a more of a from scratch like a tent
um and those have already been approved so what this is doing is now taking out the uh former requirement that there be an umbrella event permit and a vendor level permit uh so now what will need to happen is there will be an event
umbrella you know umbrella level event permit for the whole event that'll be a special event permit and then each food vendor there will need to have a food vendor permit from the city of North St paul there is a fee for that because there is a fire inspection for that um
but that is an annual license or annual permit and so that would be a oneoff and then it's good for the whole year uh for any operations within the city of North St paul um so again that that action has been taken already and this is just to remove the vendor permits uh and then as
well to correct um there were a number of uh typos and misspellings so as long as we're changing it I figured I'd we'd go through and fix those that's all I have on this particular one and would be happy to stand for any questions
when we Oh thank you when we approved the food truck thing um and maybe my memory is faulty um it was Did we say that the North St paul license was reciprocal or
they had it for the state i if they had it for somewhere else it it also covered it for the city or they could have an an excuse me an egg license which covered them for the entire state or they could have a county permit that would cover them for that county was my
understanding is that so if the food truck has a state or Ramsey County then they do not need the North St paul one in addition to Right well no and they wanted that to to be in place for even if it was um
that they had had one in Ramsey County that just the followup of getting that information from that city or that from that event that to follow up that information get that from them follow up with any questions that they may have had and make sure everything looks good um so they were still looking to
implement that fee so then they're saying that if they're bringing in a food truck that has not been inspected by our city fire that
they would be have to pay that uh inspection fee prior to them serving food up at the church yes that is correct so there are there are sort of two sets of licenses that a
food truck needs so they have a um county or department of agriculture food safety license uh and that is not something that we're getting involved in we're leaving that for the county they would also then need a city fire
inspection uh and that was the specifically that was the the fire department's concern um was the sort of you know doing an inspection of gas lines and burners and those sorts of things based on a couple of recent accidents so that we do not currently
have um anything in the code that would make that reciprocal with other inspections because I I don't know that uh there is a general requirement for fire inspections like that in state law
or at the county level um could we could potentially look into I know there are some other city level licenses that do have a more robust fire inspection we could look into adding something to say that you know if there is a fire safety
inspection component to another license they hold then we could make it reciprocal um but it would still be there would still be some amount of administrative work to make sure that they do have that fire safety component in addition to the food safety component
okay then you there's I've seen many food trucks around some of them have multiple four five 10 units running through the city okay they bring only one truck here to be inspected that's
the only truck that will be able to sell food at this location in our city because of the fact that let's say that truck was number four number 9 10 and 11 they have not been inspected by our city even though they're thinking that they had one
inspected is going to be come be able to come here they're going to actually have to technically get all of them inspected is that something that we can thin down to they can bring in a different vehicle if
that one's down that night uh so the the way that the ordinance uh that has been passed uh already for the food truck vendor ordinance the way that that is defined is it defines it on a per truck basis so each truck requires that permit
requires an inspection um I bet we could work something out where you know because we have the the fee the fee is mostly for the fire inspection uh and I bet it would be a lot more effective to inspect 10 trucks at once right than to inspect that way
one truck town 10 different days right um it would require some further tweaking to the code language but I bet we could um we could talk with the fire department i bet we could work out some kind of a formula for
um you know the fe the fee gets you you know an inspector and then if you bring a bunch of units to be inspected that would potentially work um that would again that would require an amendment to how the code is currently written uh and I I do not believe that would address
the specific concern that has been raised here of they would still you know they would still need a city permit um to operate within the city um even if they've been operating at for example the state fair okay so if she were to
bring in a vehicle that was at the fair and if they had two vehicles the one vehicle that she had scheduled to come here was broke down that second vehicle would
be best to have been uh inspected here the the you know what I mean the same scenario because if they're at the fair for 10 or 11 days there so could something go wrong yes so the way the code is written would
require an inspection of the truck that is operating in the city of North St paul um however the vendor wants to go about ensuring that the truck that is here is the truck that has been
inspected and to be clear this is per inspecting the capability of that truck to operate safely and not or that vendor the vehicle uh booth whatever it may be to operate
safely within the city limits and ensure that they're not going to you know blow up or something like catch fire harm our citizens and this applies not just to events like the one at St peter but to the car show and everything like that so
so yeah it would apply to the car show it would apply to a food truck that wants to park on a corner in a parking lot for a couple of random days yes any food vendors and again it is an annual fee so if there's a food truck that is here for two days in the spring and then
gone all summer and then wants to come back for St peters if they've already done that inspection once that year their initial payment of that fee would still be good so they would not have to get a new permit for coming back good from the day
that they inspect it until one day of the next following year a certain day whatever how do they consider that is that per month month to month I mean month to the year of the next year how do they want to do that uh so it uh all
licenses issued expire on so I guess I perhaps misspoke slightly so it it's um April 30th of each year is the turnover date and that's just an administrative easy to keep track of that day so if they got an inspection on May 1st then they are they are good they do not have
to pay another fee they do not have to get another inspection until the following May 1st okay and there is no changes what the cost of the special event permit yeah what was that cost to get that well that permit
fee is waved because what's that right but it's good profit correct yeah right and the fee for the trucks is $80 per I believe it's $85 per year per food truck
which for most food trucks is easily recoverable within sorry yeah worth of sales it's a $80 fee uh as long as they are applying at least seven days before they need the license to issue and then it's slightly more expensive uh if they
need either a rush inspection uh or if we catch them without the license and they need to get an after the fact uh they would be probably escorted out of the city at that point without a permit they would be um not necessarily escorted out they would be shut they would not be able to operate they would
be shut down for that day and then they would have to get the permit which would require uh it's a $160 after the fact permit fee so just to make sure I'm understanding things correctly the the because of this change the the special event permit fee
is going away for nonprofits that you guys already determined that okay so so so so so so that's already done and then the additional thing would be the $80 for the food truck which has already also already been decided right
any more discussion nope so the the approval is that we go with the way it's written here it's the the ordinance and a clean up and clean up that and then and it goes and it
covers the what we discuss here with the $80 and the once a year so the the $80 and the once a year inspection was a previous ordinance that has already been passed already done the ordinance that is in front of you tonight is removing that individual that each um right now
there's a still a requirement that so you'd need an umbrella event permit a vendor license and a food vendor license this would be to remove the vendor license requirement and clean up a couple of typos so that is the ordinance
that is in front of you tonight so just to make sure I'm understanding this and and I appreciate you um bearing with me approving the ordinance in front of us today truthfully has no bearing on them
or any nonprofit within the city and it would be up to us if we want to revisit if the food truck ordinance is overly harmful upon events but but the ordinance before us
today really has no effect on them i'm not sure it has no effect so it does if they are holding hosting a special event at which there are vendors those vendors are required to get an individual vendor license for the event so this would have
the effect of reducing the burden on an event at St peters by removing the reducing the number of approvals required and then yes if you wanted to revisit the food truck inspection and the food food vendor fee that would then
have to be um a subsequent action so then if she brings a vehicle in that has not been inspected they decide to set up here they have to pay the cost to have it inspected while
it's sitting here before they open up the shop so that would be the same effect as whether they came down to the fireh hall and and got it inspected uh yes depending it changes how much the
inspection costs depending on if they brought it seven days prior to the event it would be 80 if they brought it the day of it's it would be 125 okay and then if they just try and get away with it and get caught then it's 160
okay c can I ask a favor mayor um with your permission I I see members of the audience shaking their head about what Jack does would you be okay if I invite one of the members of the audience up front to see where the disconnect is sure carrie would you approach again
thank you i just want to make sure I'm understanding this so I can vote accordingly um in my communications with city staff the issue is the fire and I agree i don't want a truck to blow up my event either we my insurance requirements through the arch dascese are probably
more stringent than the city of North St paul's um I was told by staff that as long as they have a fire inspection from a reciprocal city in the metro which all of my trucks do by the time they get to September that they could submit that and that would take care of the fire
requirement that's why we're requesting you know some help with not having these trucks have to pay again because like I said we're the middle of September we're the end of the season these trucks have been licensed and inspected all over town and we're still sharing all of that
information with the city every single one of our trucks submits their certificate insurance listing Church of St peter listing city of North St paul they submit their Ramsey County food license they submit a fire inspection if for some I do have a vendor who comes from Sterns County he probably's going to have to pay for the fire inspection
because he's probably not going to have one that our city will will um accept but I'm I'm I want you to understand we care about the fire inspection as well we're asking for some financial loyalty assistance so that we can continue to
use food trucks as a fundraiser the other problem we have is North St paul's small i don't have a lot of trucks to pick from if we were Maplewood or Oakdale they do huge food truck events i could just go down the catalog and and and pick out the trucks I want um you
know we don't have a lot of food truck events in town other than the car show the car show us and I believe the city brings in some trucks for the autumn arts festival but even with the autumn arts festival see you wish I didn't work here in News at the Autumn Arts Festival
the city has them pay for the license but the city doesn't ask for anything in return not a cut of pro of profits not a participation fee so for those vendors it makes perfect sense where the where the challenge is is with us because we do use it as a fundraiser
so again Carrie I I don't disagree with the thing you said there um but my understanding is the fire license part of it we voted on two months ago now that might have already
been overly burdensome watch that meeting right but now we might have been overly burdensome to you but the part we're voting on today what what impact does the part we're voting on today have to them because the firetruck part has already been passed and we have full agreement
and participation in that right i have kids all over that parking lot i want nobody to get hurt the problem is is if we lose the ability to pay the umbrella fee which covers all of my vendors so that they don't have to pay that's that's the challenge we're at because
again we use it as a fundraiser we're we're a nonprofit you know that's how we pay for our ministries that's how we serve our neighbors sure but this doesn't change that you already passed the $80 we're asking to right right now for my event this year the city of North St
paul will bill me $95 that covers all of my vendors that goes away next year all of my vendors have to pay for their own license individually and then I won't be able to use that as a fundraiser because again can they make it yeah but we're
we're a short-term event we're a few hours on Saturday night and a few hours on Sunday um and we've been known to have rainstorms go through you know yeah um and so we're just we're just humbly humbly asking um for um some kind of
concession workaround for the nonprofits who are trying to use food truck events as fundraisers and I understand what you're saying i'm just trying to make sure I understand things right but to me if if we wanted to give uh St repeats what they're asking for we
would need to visit revisit the fire food truck license that we already voted in us voting yes today really doesn't our trucks are going through the exact same process of a license to right but to to give you
what you want in my understanding we would have to revisit what we already approved two months ago voting yes on this does doesn't have much bearing on what they're asking for reducing the cost that the vendors would have to pay
because they don't have to pay the vendor license my understanding is is if we can still pay the umbrella fee which is how we've operated um that is the best solution for us besides this that's outside of the realm of the what we're voting on tonight but it does impact my
trucks right so what Jason is saying is we would have to revisit what we've already passed two months ago in order to address your issue we cannot address that tonight well the I guess the part of the ordinance I'm referring to is removal of the umbrella
permit because that has worked very well for us that's not in the It's in this ordinance that's being removed right but we would have to amend it and then send Yeah so okay how does this do for other ones as far
as other events other places that there's not a lot of other people that do what we do during the Halloween and then Casey Lake with the arts festival that's really and St marks hasn't gotten into this yet but you know
who's to say they couldn't So I think I maybe see where the disconnect is coming from so in the the part of the ordinance that is being deleted it does say umbrella fee any special event conducted by a public charity is subject to one special
event vendor fee for all vendors that's it amen so it is removing the umbrella but it is also removing the requirement that there be any vendor fees so it is you no longer have to pay one vendor fee you now have to pay zero
vendor fees but my but they have to pay the food truck vendor fee and so that is how it is that's where the that's where the the challenges and so the ordinance tonight does not have anything to do with the food truck vendor fee it is
just removing the individual vendor fee i want my umbrella fee i can't wait to pay you my umbrella fee which which is how it's going to be this year what's going to affect you is the next year correct so if you wanted to bring this
back you would have time to do that again not affecting what you're voting on tonight so she's good we still vote on tonight because this removing the Yeah i mean my my um at this point in
time my recommendation would be that a we do vote on this tonight but we also asked Brian to contact local charities and get the um cost burden that this will change in in 26 to a workshop to see if we would want to revisit the food
truck ordinance um but from everything I'm hearing I I because it'll actually reduce their fee to me voting yes today on this ordinance makes sense but revisiting to see if we were
overburdensome upon local charities wouldn't um might make sense for a workshop topic i can tell you I've done a ton of research on this i do a lot of work with Minnesota Food Truck Association and it's really all over the map some cities totally exempt their nonprofits some
don't um I I I was trying to find a trend or numbers but it truly is all over the map i know Ardan Hills they just they got rid of their food truck ordinance they just let make people be licensed through the county but it it it is um every city really is kind of doing
their own thing so vote on this tonight and then have a discussion if you'd like to bring it back yes please all right we'll do that thank you for a motion motion please
approve the ordinance of the chapter 22 North Code Enforcement Special Permit so moved so move council member Woods second second council member Norvy all those in favor say I i i against nay nay
all right next up is the award and sale of the $6.74 million general obligation street construction and utility mods series here to speak to this welcome do you want to sit
sure i'm going to finish that don't take your hand almost good evening mayor members of the council um I'm Michaela Hwitt with Baker Tilly and here to present the results of the city's um issuance for the general
obligation street reconstruction and utility bonds um series 2025A i was here about a month ago um in which the council authorized the sale of the bonds and I know you heard during the work session tonight um kind of a preview of the results of the sale and
kind of the volatility of the market but I'm here again to present the results um share some information and happy to address any questions that you might have um with the uh recommendation to um award or um award the sale um of those bonds so again the purpose for the bonds
um the proceeds are used to finance um various street reconstruction projects that were identified in the city's 5-year street reconstruction plan for which the city did hold a public hearing um and approve that plan um various utility projects within the city as well as related costs of issuance for the
project the term of the bonds is 20 years um and the um one of the interesting uh pieces in the market was when we presented the pre-sale summary um we were showing a true interest cost of 4.18% um there was a lot of
volatility in the market last week which um based on all the interest rate increases we were showing um 100 basis point um increase closer to 5.19% so there was a lot of uncertainty in the market um there uh we were seeing um
higher rates less bidders and just general volatility um after uh watching the markets yesterday um we were um happy to see that the actual results of the sale were 4.02% 02% and um as we'll see um here I'll go
into the uh the actual bids that the city did receive on the issue but this is the bond buyer index which does provide um a preview of the interest rates and you'll see over the last couple weeks or excuse me within the last uh couple weeks the the increase in the rates and again that volatility in
the market so the city's bond issue uh we did receive six biders um you'll see the range of the interest rates with the winning bid of the 4.0217% and the highest bid going all the way up to
4.3263% in a less volatile market we'll probably see a little bit less of a spread between the um the the the uh ticks that were um presented with the bids so again you can see a little bit of the volatility in the market and this is just showing with the bid um what the
uh the pricing um related to that bid was for the bonds again here's the uh as the long or excuse me the semiannual debt service schedule based on the um the uh pricing and um the other aspect of it was the
city did go through their annual um uh rating review process uh we met with SNP and reviewed their topics of discussion and questions and pleased to um present that the results of the rating review this week week was an upgrade from a double A to A plus so that's great um
great news for the city and reflects the accomplishments that the city's made related to um the financial stability um some of the highlights related to that upgrade include um increases in the reserves so you have a stronger sustainable um balance um for the city also the recent adoption of a formal
fund balance policy which again reflects um having um a set uh fund balance uh within the city um a long-term operating forecast which results in the u longerterm budget and planning um as well as the uh commitment by the city to maintain a structural balance and and
overall um strong financial performance so again the rating why do we have it well it's a measure of the city's financial strength and ability to repay the debt um and really at the end of the day the stronger the rating the lower the interest cost and the estimated interest savings um going from
a double A to a double A plus is about give or take the market um eight basis points so we expect to see um interest rate savings as a result of the um the rating increase as well here's um showing there's three rating um agencies Moody's Fitch and SNP
and you'll see the double A plus is on the very high um grade credit and it's one below the AAA within the credit rating report um some of the highlights the credit strengths again um stable tax base strong operating performance and really
uh available reserves and um strong management practices that lead to um um strong financial performance um some credit challenges and these are are um some you can control some you cannot right a fully built out community
and they also look at the um incomes um the average incomes within the um within your city we always look at factors that could lead to an upgrade um if you have improved income levels which again you know based on the the uh per um resident
income median income um as well as um there was some consideration and I know um Dan has talked has been conversations about the balance of debt and the structure of debt versus cash payments um but again another consideration is what the long-term debt burden for the
city is and what that um whether it's the the term of the debt and the overall level um factors that could lead to a downgrade and um the way the city's performing this seems not the trend and seems unlikely but if there were
continual um deficits or um unbalanced budgets or draws that fund balance which again your fund balance policy maintains what your um minimum policy or excuse me your minimum fund balance um will be so the recommendation for tonight is
to approve a resolution that awards um 6.53 million to Northland Securities based on their low bid of the 4.021% um with that I'd be happy to answer any questions you have on um either the the sale or the rating or any general
questions questions thank you for your presentation was very thorough i appreciate it if not can I have a motion if there's no questions I'll make Okay council member McKinzy i'll second second council member Woods
all those in favor say I i opposed thank you thank you thank you for your time appreciate you coming you want to use the computer you want to sit by her i don't have a presentation so what do you think for she is well you know if you if you stand
up there you have to do a little song and dance that's right puppet show all right i'll announce you first item C for city business action items is the 2025 street utility improvement project uh city project number
receive bid award contract and authorize professional construction services we have engineer Dolly here to speak to that thank you Brian uh Mr mayor members of the council so this next item before you is contemplating award of a construction contract related to the last item that
you just heard in terms of the bonding for the 2025 street and utility improvement project um that project is uh includes improvements to streets and utilities and some other items which I'll uh go through just in a sec on a
few streets gerald Avenue between Mohawk and Msabi shauny Drive between Mcnite and the Casey Lake Parking lot uh Buell Avenue between Msabi Avenue West and Msabi Avenue East a little bit of a loop there and also some improvements within
Casey Lake Park including uh the east parking lot off of Shaunie Mcnite um some trail improvements on the north side of the park there and improvements to the storm water basin to accommodate uh Ramsey Washington Metro wershed uh
requirements for these types of road improvements and we're also taking care of the storm water improvements for the future 2027 project so we're just working in the area once getting it out of the way so when we get to 2027 we won't need to do anything we're we're
banking wetland or not wetland watershed credits if I guess I can put it that way so uh that's the project uh again uh full road reconstruction new curb and gutter uh new driveway aprons for everybody um new water man and water
services to the property line with shut off valves for everyone uh and uh line sanitary sewer services to protect uh against the instance that you know an old clay tile sewer service might collapse and then we've got an issue with a multi-million dollar road on top
of that so we're trying to do everything we can to kind of protect that investment and then walk away and reset that infrastructure life cycle clock for this whole area um trying to address as many things as we can so uh the project was in the capital improvement plan um
and moving forward then we opened bids on April 7th uh the bids did come in favorably so they ranged from a high at 5,745,000 uh down to the low uh of 5,137,000 so that's a pretty good spread
uh the engineers estimate was right around uh $5.5 million so right in the middle that's where we want our estimates to be we want some bids higher and some bids lower and I guess the most interesting thing to me was that the low two bids were only separated by
$23,000 on a bid that was over $5 million so that generally indicates that um we're probably getting the best market price for the improvements that we possibly could given the timing and whatever else the price of tea in China i mean there's a lot of factors that go
into these projects but uh I was very satisfied with the outcome here um as you heard with the uh bond sale information and uh deposit into the construction account um we uh pulled this all apart with the uh low bids and
made sure that everything including a 5% contingency just in case uh there's some construction cost overruns plus with the engineering indirect cost there is adequate funding with these bids to account for everything including some like I said some contingency extra just
in case so uh we're comfortable that uh funding is in a good place to pay for these things given the bond sale results um and uh I guess the other thing uh before I go into reminding you of what the action
item is here I just want to remind the council and the public that we do have an open house tomorrow at the Casey Lake uh building from 6:00 to 7:00 it's just an open house so there isn't like a presentation you have to be there at a specific time for but certainly welcome
any welcome any of the council members or anyone from the public to come and learn more from city staff from project staff folks that work with me uh we'll have uh the electric director will be there because there is some electric work that's going on kind of around the
same time um and we've sent out some letters to invite people and let them know that we do have some things happening in the neighborhood before the city project starts which is uh mostly gas company and some Century Link telecommunications work that'll be happening and we want those guys to
hopefully get done and get out of the way before the city work starts so um if a contract is awarded here tonight we anticipate a start of actually city construction not necessarily the gas company but the city work might start um late May maybe early to mid June I think
is fair so not right away by any means um but uh still should be plenty of time to wrap up most things we think that uh we will have uh substantial completion which doesn't include every aspect of the project but uh there will be a drivable road we should have all the
utility work done by um October there might be a little bit of cleanup before Thanksgiving before the construction season formally ends and then we always see a little bit of activity the following year in 2026 for um maybe growing some grass that didn't come in some minor landscaping planting of trees
uh and that last layer of asphalt that goes in after one freeze thaw cycle so um that's the general time frame frame and what we're expecting but like I said uh certainly come to the open house tomorrow night 6:00 to 7:00 at the Casey Lake building learn more um and with
that the action items before you tonight are twofold there's two different ones first one is to uh award by resolution a construction contract uh to the low bidder RL Larson Excavating in the amount of 5,137,76848 and the second item which I
can't recommend this uh Ron left me hanging here he was gonna come up here with me his name is also on the staff report um but there is a professional services agreement for that construction phase for WSB now that includes um constru full-time construction observer
so we're having Mark Lynch come back who's worked on the last several projects for us and is he's actually a North St paul um born and raised i think he lives right next door in Maplewood right now but very familiar with the community our construction standards uh public works electric department um and
so we're happy to have him back on the project um plus just contract administration and um surveying staking that sort of thing so pretty typical um and so that's also as a sep separate item to approve that uh construction services proposal uh with WSB in the
amount of $625,936 i can make that recommendation oh thank you thank you since I cannot Thank you Brian um so with that I'll stand for any questions the council might have are you satisfied with the uh contractor i think he's out of cloud uh yes so RL Larson is
a contractor that um we I don't think we've ever had them in town before i don't think they've been around that long yeah and and um so and I have not worked with them before um I don't have any reason to like disqualify them or you know so we're looking forward to
working with them and like I said we've got controls quality assurance built into the contract or with some of the folks that work for me to make sure and keep eyes on them uh to make sure they're doing a good job um certainly encourage the the council and the public
to utilize our communication tools with the hotline and if they do if they're concerned about something whether it's related to the contractor or not let staff know and we will uh address that sort of thing sometimes for example they start their diesels too early in the morning which is a disruption to the
neighborhood and there are specific hours 7 a.m to 7:00 p.m that they need to be within so sometimes we get some complaints like that um and it's nothing against RL Larson i guess we just don't have any evidence to say that they won't do a good job but we're looking forward to working with them as a new contractor
in town and hold them to our standards really is what it comes down to i've read the other listings and I' I've been to jobs that all these other ones have been but I've never been to RL Johnson because or Larson because he's up in St cloud seems like I read some that he's
like four to six years old contract i've heard they're doing a project for the city of Lino Lakes right now which includes some deep sewer so certainly more complicated uh utility work than what's included in our project um well at least our local they're doing they're doing work local yeah yeah exactly yep
yeah and some you know Northdale is from up uh in that area they have worked in town before ryan Contracting is from Shakapey Savage um Yeah so I think um I mean the days when we had Shipsky in town those were nice because they're all right next door well uh I knew what
you're getting yeah but you know trustworthy operation yeah the fact that they're coming from St cloud I guess um doesn't concern me at all in 2014 we had a contractor that was based out of MOA uh and they did an amazing job um Redstone Contracting so you know I think
it just depends on how they operate away from their headquarters right and you know they may have shop and properties or I don't know how they do it but you know I'm I don't think there's anything to disqualify these folks from and they've got all the concrete all submitted through the bids were do then
and did they uh so we river yeah so I don't know about supplier but we uh hold them to mindot specifications for all concrete walk and curb uh and that's a part of our city specifications and we do have quality control testing for
concrete cylinders and they're required to submit their mix design before they get started and so the engineers will review and approve that prior to uh start of work so we've got kind of those controls in there i don't know if it's coming from Knife River or another readymix plant but we
will know that before we start and generally the plants that we see are Mindot certified plants so um Morgan one question if you don't mind and this is irregardless of um who you're picking um just cuz there's so
much uncertainty um could you speak to what protections there are for the city let's say gas and asphalt go five times their price if this um uh contractor happens to default or go under um is is the city protected and do you believe
there's adequate verbiage in the contract for that uh I do uh Council Member Norby Mr mayor and Council so um a couple of contractual facts I guess that help protect the city um they uh
are required to submit a performance bond right so their shy is guaranteeing performance under the contract to the full amount of the contract uh you know if they were to go out of business or
something like that um uh we also um uh have I I believe 95% on this we've got a a non fuel escalator clause in the contract some MDOT jobs sometimes they'll allow like if fuel prices spike
they'll allow the contractor to you know make a request for some additional compensation on city jobs we usually write that out so I don't think they'll be able to make that claim um and you know they're submitting unit prices for things like uh that might have steel or
some of the other things that might be volatile volatile right now from a pricing standpoint so uh and the pricing was good right it was below our estimate um and so the good thing was there wasn't much difference between them so it's not like you have a real low one at
the end yeah exactly not like a huge outlier right that we had two kind of down there yeah and so um you know you never really know some contractors have different styles in terms of how they like to uh approach the owner meaning meaning the city of
North St paul and I guess myself as the engineer you know on the contract on like extras extra cost i mean they're all entitled to their opinion but there's certainly no reason why we uh we have to hear them but we don't have to approve their requests for additional compensation right unless they're
justified so uh we do take those uh into account if there is something that's justified we might approve that um either by change order or informally uh but if if it's something that we think is not within the uh ex expectations of
the contract in terms of compensation for performance um you know I work for you not the contractor right and so we're we're interested certainly in seeing this project come in as close and hopefully under if everything goes according to plan the contract amount
you've done a good job we've had quite a few that have appreciate that thank you for your due diligence for no rain yes that will help yes do you want to read the first one so we can uh on it the the amount sure i
can read and then you Yeah you then he's going to do the second one uh yeah uh so uh accept uh bids and award by resolution a construction contract for the grand total bid in the amount of 5,137,76848 for the $225 street and utility improvement project city project
number 25-01 thank you can I get a motion please so move so move council member Woods second second council member McKenzie all those in favor say I i opposed thank you and you're gonna have to read the All
right which one is it uh it is page 160 of 169 got the big cheese doing this one uh next up approve construction service proposal
with for the 2025 street and utility improvement budget by WSB in the amount of $625,936 thank you Ryan can I have a motion please so moved your honor so moved council member Norby second second Council Member Woods all those in favor say I i against thank you thank you
Mayor thank you appreciate it thank you uh before we move on I would like to make one correction i apologize uh the print off that I had used numbers that we had calculated uh due to the best educated configuration
for the GO bonds that were last week they changed as of today because we knew exactly what their rates were so I misspoke talking 6.74 million she um Kayla said the right number at 6.53 million that it's a good way to go if you're
going if you're going bowl might as well for the better that's right all right reports uh from city manager so we had a staff meeting today electric has been working um back out at Casey
Lake we got the rest of the lights up for the the trail which is more along the uh west side and then up to the uh lift station we haven't gone back behind and around by the houses we just want to throw it like back bedrooms of those homes but so that's up and running now
which is great um they've had some training they did their pull top training and their bucket repel training here this week as well um sent in some of their uh equipment for testing for their high
voltage communications um Eva's Eva's been Eva has uh been busy with launching the website which will take place on April 29th at 10 a.m u don't expect any major disruptions and I think you like the outcome
um finance of course has been busy with the bond doing the rating he's been really on top of that prepping all the information for everybody involved baker Tilly S&P so he did really did a good job um place as their uh two new hires
that they had have completed their field training now they're able to go out in the field on their own now um they still have one uh person in training going through that field training process um they still are down one officer and one
cso but uh and our cso um will be taking their test probably next month and uh we moved on to the officer they already did the interview process for him and bring be for hopefully a little while to train on him as the new CSO as he moves on in
his career um Ray was at Chief School last week had pretty good attendance like 400 attendees there said it was a good outcome and good training uh public works uh this time of year they're pretty busy the road restrictions are coming up tomorrow so things are going to start happen
um they got four summer help ready to go and one horse horiculturist uh coming on for the summer they've been out street sweeping kind of cleaning things up from the winter um doing ball field prep too which every
year this time they get a little anxious and want that open right away but got a it's built on a box so it takes a little longer to dry out doing some PVC sewer line sewer line cleaning um that's in progress right now we've got the lead service line
inspections going on again we got that back online they're doing probably five to seven uh each day that they're doing the inspections so picking away at that um student build house is coming along they're working on the sheetrocking right now so won't be long that thing up and ready
to go for the market uh been busy they got two new time on call members starting here and uh classes begin in mid August they'll be doing a live burn training tomorrow which is at their training center out there on Highway 12 in Con
14 um new engine is still uh things are moving along well no more delays so they're expecting that come mid June so they're looking forward to that um still working with the uh getting door lock bids for uh contractors we've dealt with
so a lot of good um options out there so just keep your check and then uh we've been doing fire inspections on our city buildings as well which I'll be uh finishing up here shortly so I
got very much reports from council commissions and committees well the EDA met last Tuesday i think it was in the eth and we uh voted in some president vice
president and the secretary and treasurer and then we start working on the initials of the uh fascia for our city downtown so that's in the process we did have two members still absent but we went on with
the uh facade with the facade yes perfect thank you if I could add to that that program we should have that up and on open gov as of tomorrow oh nice awesome that's cool thank you um arts and culture commission uh met
after the day after our last uh city council meeting and talked about the uh arts festival and plans for some of the activities there and the mural that's going to be done over at the historical museum
okay so so facing towards the um Legion i believe it's facing I believe it's facing towards the uh scout meeting oh scout okay that's fine all right i'm not sure what side they're doing that's going to be great that's a good spot thank you Norby the planning commission
met on the 3rd um there were two topics of discussion one was the approval of the master plan for the parks which we voted in the consent today and the other is they are discussing the downtown design manual had some um great discussion on it um and uh more to come
on that but that's probably going to be a couple of meeting discussion of how to um streamline that but great discussion great group couldn't be more proud of that commission great to hear thank you for your time for all of you guys when it comes to uh when it comes to your committees and commissions thank you
general business anything nope all right what nothing for me all right just would like to remind everyone as of today you can now start putting your yard waste out yeah i got my barrel it's overflowing yesterday yesterday was out oh you must be Wednesday yeah and we're
Tuesday so ours has been gone for a day mayor privilege yeah exactly yep they just come just for me just that one truck yes um I did want to mention that I drove by the um student build home it really looks nice in that spot i mean they did a great job it fits in really
well looks like it really belongs there so really really proud of it yes it's been a great uh we did talk about having Tom in to one of our meetings is that still on the schedule yes to thank him for all he's done for our community absolutely awesome good deal all right
if there's nothing else I'll ask for adjournment so moved so moved council member Woods i'll second second council member Kinsey all those in favor say I i i thank you all have a good evening 5th is the next meeting appreciate it