[Music] so this is the opening of our regularly scheduled meeting of Norton Conservation Commission uh is Monday February 10th uh 25 at 6:30
p.m and uh Dan I have some bad news for you um Elon Musk called me and he said we're we keep stuff at the beginning of our meeting since it's always the same
so we will wave the reading of the U the Preamble which [Music] explains the um the legislation by which we can use
uh can do these meetings remotely um and with that said if you need to that it is available in the regular agenda but uh we will begin the meeting with um uh the me regular uh the regular volunteer
members of the commission myself Julian kades uh we have Dan Pearson tonight Joe carallo Tom best Mark Fernandez Lisa carosa pexton posel and
um I think I think we have a full board yes we do and also participating uh is John Thomas our director and Megan our up our assistance so first item of
of business is our meeting minutes of27 2025 um a relatively short meeting uh any comments we had um Dan and who are absent
U Mr chairman I even though I was absent I wonder if I can I still make uh I know I can't vote on these but can I make observations I bet you could um I was just going to say that uh
in 250- XXXX uh there's a sentence the applicant stabilized the area with straw and tackifier and straw swaddles were extended as well I I think um um got it
Waddles with a the the applicant was taking very good care of the site that's all I can [Music] say uh yeah we can change that all right I'll fix that uh any other
comments uh there are a few but they're you know not that big a deal any anyone want to offer a motion to accept the minutes of January 27th as amended so
moved second we have a motion by T seconded I think by a millisecond by Mark roll call V vote uh Joe uh Mark and Tom how do you vote I I
hi and I'll throw in an i who did I miss PX hi uh yeah Joe we got you Paxton we got you so we have two Obion right we have Lisa and and Dan
OBS all right motion carries um and next on the agenda is the proposed water training by the fire department it says Josh Wilson is going to be the representative how are you
Josh how are you uh we're good you got you guys can hear me all right we can uh so if you guys haven't met me before my name is Josh Wilson I've been on the fire department as a paramedic and firefighter uh since
2014 um noran's at a dive team long time um I believe I found like archival footage from the 60s uh from the dive team um a few years ago we kind of regionalized it like our other assets uh for firefighting so stuff like technical rescue and Hazmat uh it's kind of a
State regionalized team um and we joined forces with north adoro um and eventually moved to uh adding eastn fire along with Franklin fire and soon to be Sharon fire fire department um right now we have about 18 divers about four tenders um and being in charge of
training um I was always looking for different things to train on uh try to you know help out the team in different ways um and one thing that was brought up by a lot of the older members of the dive team was um a car in the water scenario um you know we have it as a fire department um a couple times a year
of people driving mostly into winnan um and typically those people are are outside of the car by the time we get there but um you know there are some circumstances where you know the person could be unconscious it could the person could not be able to physically get out of their car and the dive team response
is needed in that case um and since I joined the dive team we haven't actually been able to do any sort of training that kind of alludes to this um and this is why I kind of come to you guys because you're kind of the first stop uh you know putting a car in the waters obviously you know you guys um I'm sure
have questions about it and we're trying to make it kind of as safe as possible and get the okay from you guys prior to you know committing to it and getting more resour sources put into it yeah I I I I mean I'll just give my comments and then the rest of the uh
people can jump in um I I I think our primary concern is avoiding any kind of U uh fluids contaminating and am I presuming the uh vehicle or parts of
vehicle will be absent a gas tank absent uh an engine says that in the letter I think Julian it says yeah so i s a proposal in uh kind of the operation all the safety aspects
of um you know what we plan on doing um I spoke to foges about uh you know more so is it possible to do this um and he said yeah he has shells of cars um he gets them pretty frequently um these cars have no engines in it nothing that
uh holds fluid such as brake lines uh the transmission any sort of fuel tanks everything is taken out of the car um it it's essentially just a shell of a car and that's what he said um you know if we're looking for you know a clean car that doesn't have any fluids in it
that's the the way to go with that um he's been very helpful he says you know he can help us get it in and out um that's no problem on his part um but obviously you know the biggest thing is making sure that we get a car that doesn't leak anything into the water yeah and I think compared to uh the
average bass boat uh I think you guys are going to be fine but um but the next question is the depth and you're probably going to have to scout out uh because most of the reservoir is very shallow and you can't have to scout out
a spot where I don't know how far below the surface you want to put this yeah so I've Dove and and all of our Pawns in Norton with the dive team my original kind of request and I know it was kind
of third person through Deputy Robbins my first request is Winn a cunet um because when kind it does get deep a lot quicker than the other lakes that we have in town um and especially the part in the parking lot kind of the back section of the chatau parking lot um it
does drop off very quickly um and that was the original idea I believe um Deputy Robbins talked to John Thomas I think it might have been Megan um and I believe he said the reservoir would be a better option I'm not 100% on
where that was um or why that was I just know that I was only offered the reservoir um the depth issue is obviously going to be a problem with that we do have float bags we do we do have the ability to kind of float it and pull it with a boat uh to get the depth but the reservoir is going to be a
little bit tricky because there really are only about three spots that I could think of that a car will fit yeah the issue with um wi kunet is that there's a lot more environmental sensitivity with wi kunet it's within an AC and it has
natural heritage species within the within the pond so you're better off avoiding that entirely I know it probably has the depths you're looking for but from an environmental nightmare if things did go wrong um you know you'd be in better better situation uh for
Norton Reservoir so that was why I suggested to Deputy Robins that uh reservoirs probably the better alternative yeah that definitely makes sense I I didn't know the reasoning behind it so yeah that makes a lot of sense yeah but it's
my understanding that there is a spot or or much of the area in front of the dam uh which is quite deep and talking about the reservoir the reservoir now yeah and yeah there there's spots up to eight feet right around that Dam kind of near
um where sa's Lane is kind of on that point um there's a large Rock and right next to it is about an eight foot depth and uh there is uh I think we have Public Access going up to the dam so
that would also make it uh I don't know if you can drive a vehicle John actually since they did all of the revisions on the dam is that something you can drive to or or not I'd have to double check to see if Stones
were put over there um to preclude people from going off the edge there um but I'd have to double check that area well okay anyone else have questions comments um I I have a few go ahead please uh
couple of quick questions if if this is a go uh if we're going to be doing anything in front of the boat ramp could we possibly close that area off uh just for safety reasons that we don't have the public coming through a training
area and you know possibly maybe with a week's notification or posting to that area that that would be happening uh safety other safety question will there be a tender boat and will we be flying a large di flag during this
session yeah so um with your first question this is why I kind of my idea was to try to keep it away from the boat launches um especially you know it's not like Juniper Beach that's used you know very frequently um we do have a fire lane in there um specifically for us in
the Juniper Beach um where we can at least Park our our boat trailer and our trucks away from there but um we're trying to avoid kind of you know messing someone's weekend up or week um if they are fishing I don't want to take up a whole boat ramp um but if you know that's the only feasibility of getting
it done um obviously we want to notify people as as best as possible um prior to that happening um the uh the die flag we always do any sort of training um we have die Flags um with us um it depends on what you know how we dive if we do it from boat the
boat typically has the flag up top um but if we do it from Shore base we typically have a dive flag kind of in the center where we're diving um any sort of training will always have a dive flag um that's out there um to notify people and to kind of stay away from us
uh when we do dive um obviously for you know real incidents you know s that kind of goes by the wayside but we always tend to have that die flag with us not concerned about an incident here only about safety during training uh last question here uh will we have a oil boom
just in case there is an issue on hand do we have that in our spill kit or anything available if we have an incident yeah so we don't have we don't have those as a dive team but the fire department does uh so we have access to any type of booms anything to spill up oil or any other type of fluid um and we
have those capabilities and we will definitely have those on hand just in case you know we do start to see something coming out of that car thank you uh anyone else I just questions just go
ahead so if you don't use the boat launch or the boat ramp how how do you intend to get the the vehicle in the water itself so um I believe it's going to be fogy um that'll end up
essentially you know rolling it into um into the water uh but like I said you know we will end up if we do have to use a boat launch which you know with the reservoir it'll typically be there um the other spot we do have kind of access to is that spot I alluded to before um
that corner of sailor's Lane um it is you know sturdy enough to park a tow truck on there to push a car out um but obviously we want to be as controlled as possible we don't want to cause any damage we don't want to do you know anything if it does go to the boat launch uh it'll most likely be dropped
in um with float bags attached to it um at a boat launch and then moved with one of our boats to a deeper location okay so when do you think do you intend to come back before the commission when you decide on an actual
location um yeah come with a more definite location for you guys um I don't plan on on doing this drill does have the go-ahead until June um so this is why I'm obviously trying to start you know early with you guys um to kind of
you know work out the logistics with it um so once we get a definite spot um you guys are okay with it um I'll come back to the commission and U you know go over more details about it this is more of a PR preliminary type um you know go ahead
to make sure that it's something that you guys would be open to as opposed to specific details which will come a little bit closer to the drill itself okay thank you and if uh Sharon's joining you might look at MOG right John Thomas oh actually John I know there
were freshwater muscles mapped in I thought it was the reservoir as well no am I thinking went a c it just thinking went a c it okay there's none in the reservoir not that I know of okay oh I think they're
plenty you can come down I are they are they mapped by natural heritage though I don't think so so if they're not muscles what are they then aquatic species what that aquatic
species well they're B valve aquatic species but anyway we can talk about that at another time yeah I thought because I figured if they were mapped just might be one area we want to avoid that's all yeah there's no there's no map natural heritage and the reservoir to my
knowledge okay um Dan you had a question yeah well uh John's Point uh very well taken um you know the there I'm just thinking of that nice space uh
sort of informal space on Bay Road uh right next to Wun it seems like it would be very easy just to drive drive a car in there and well you know or whatever about the snake the Snake River with that boat
launch uh I guess so uh there's actually not far it's about there's actually two cars that are underwater right there yeah okay well that uh that takes care that takes care of that yeah
there's two cars under there the problem that we have with that is we have enough depth and everything but there are currently two cars I believe there was three and one was taken out this is way before my time as a diver um and I know that um there's a pretty significant
current that goes through there which is gonna kind of add a whole other factor to the training itself um that water coming out into the Snake River well maybe someone should put a a sign up do not drive your car into the
uh into the body board anyway uh on a serious note thank you thank you for bringing this to us early Josh or Joshua thank you all right so I have a question for John uh assuming everything gets
selected what what is the paperwork uh involved is this a request for determination is this an administrative decision what what what's what do we do with this that's a good question it's temporary fill right that's what the car would technically consider count as
right Lisa uh I mean know how do how do we look at this so it's gonna be probably there for what a few hours yeah I mean it to me it's not much different than a boat can we put a repair plate on the
car then it's no longer temporary fill or anything it's just a registered the vehicle I guess I don't consider it a a fill John because it's a structure really it's a temporary structure that's going to be sitting on the bottom for probably less than half a day
all right well I I will um reconvene with the commission um once Josh and I have kind of selected an area and we will make a decision then but it seems like we will definitely have an understanding of what sort of paperwork needs to follow at that time so I'm
gonna just kick this down a little bit I need to do some research too so okay and I mean just thinking it through what how how we wouldn't even what would we condition right so once the disturbance is going to be soon as the it goes in they could dislodge set well here's the
other question is that do we want to make it so that way we give them an order conditions to do these things on a certain period in time frame and just come to us when they want to do these sort of activities and do a notice to do it more than once yeah what's right now
we just have the one date um I don't have any intention on doing it again any time at least this year um but obviously you know if this does turn out to be you know a good drill um we get a lot of training out of it obviously this is something to kind of think about um
doing yearly but obviously we want to kind of go through the you know do it once before we you know do it multiple times okay I'm just thinking ahead John that how how would we couldn't even be able to condition it right because once it comes back out again you're going to
dislodge sediment in the water column out deep feet but you can't really condition it so I mean I would seriously consider doing this administratively so and you know with regard to sediment
the reservoir is kind of unusual in that it's so trow in most areas so when the wind really blows all the sediment gets resuspended across the entire Reservoir so the reservoir turns brown so I I can't
really say and and you know we knew that there was two feet of muck on on the reservoir at one time because we had cores and then the more recent studies show that that muck is pretty much gone now because it kept getting resuspended
from all the wind and it goes over the damp so we we can hardly say that a little bit of sediment being suspended is different from the natural process in that particular body of water so uh I don't know if we should be concerned about that yeah that's no I'm not Julian
that's why I'm bringing it up so the only only thing I could think of that you would condition is sediment sediment is going to happen it's going to happen it's going to be immediately you know settled to the bottom and we're good so that's why I'm saying I don't think it will I think that's the only potential effect and that's why I think we can
handle it administratively all right any we haven't opened it up the entire meeting so if anyone has a a question in the uh in the audience you may want to just uh raise it now and uh if there aren't
um John this is uh Deputy Chief Wilson from the noron fire department I just want to let everybody know that um Josh has a full support from the upper management of the uh fire department myself and chief Simmons were both uh divers years
ago um I think this is great training um I think one of the things we can do is if anybody wants to come and we do the training and look at the vehicle before we put it into the water just to make sure that you can get your eyes on it to make sure that there's nothing in there is as far as fluids and things like that we're confident that foges is going to
take everything out of there that possibly could have fluid um we welcome that part of it so um he has our full support and we'll do whatever the board wants us to do to make this happen so is the commission more understanding that administrative
approval um with me there just making sure everything's okay does that seem sufficient I me it does any other comments yeah that seems so that's like a a second or a
third check on it so yeah that seems like I mean do you need a you need a formal vote John I mean if there's no permit then I would say that no right okay all right well thank you guys uh let us know when
you're going to be doing this and um I I can't see that it will be an issue all right we'll be in touch guys right thank you for your time thank you thank you all right our next
uh item is uh we have request for continuation of the mass do uh file number two the hearing for file number 250- 11168 concerning the redesign of the
intersection of 123 and uh north and south wester Street they have request a continuation until February 24th so Mo second uh we have a um motion by Dan
second by T roll call vote beginning with Joe Dan and Mark hi hi I and Paxton Lisa and t i abstain hi and I'll show in and I the
motion carries uh next up is any public inquiries or Department updates uh we have a couple new projects coming through uh they'll be filing with conservation they're going to be on the agenda for the
24th all right um so we're moving on to contined public hearings and we pretty much wrapped this up um but um I don't think there was any additional information
this is for file number 25172 8 West Main Street concerning a notice of intent to uh correct some problems at at the site um so I don't think we have a representative here
tonight we just uh close the uh public hearing and then we'll act on uh orders of condition later is that your understanding John that's correct we were just waiting for a d number I talked to DP last week so
they were able to get that U for us in this meeting tonight so should be all set so unless there are any questions we can consider a motion to close the hearing for file number 250 1172 so moved second
second uh we have a motion by Thomas seconded by Joe uh Joe Dan and Mark how do you vote hi hi hi and Paxton Lisa and Tama i i i and
I'll throw in an I so the motion cares we're now in New public hearings file number 250- 11730 South Washington Street um and uh do we have a representative of the applicant yes sir
and I'm assuming you can share your screen for a yes I can indeed uh give me one second here all right all right folks good evening my
name is froli I'm a wetland scientist with Goddard Consulting uh here on behalf of the applicant Dave patuk for the site zero South Washington Street uh we have it here highlighted in red South Washington Street coming down from the
northwest side 495 along here and the line with Taunton just down to the southeast a bit um so right off the bat we have for existing conditions uh we have a wetland line shown here see this uh Stronger
dash line with the stippling inside that Wetland line was approved with an oad uh that's valid through I believe end of October this year we zoom in a bit we have our 25 foot buffer zone
pH as well as our 100 foot Wetland buffer through the site we also do show a perennial stream on the USGS of the site uh if you'll recall I believe in October of 24 we were in front of you we documented this
stream dry outside of drought conditions to overcome that perennial presumption so what that did was essentially uh opened up a little bit of wiggle room on the site for what might be allowable now that uh that is not considered a perennial stream and therefore does not
have Riverfront area that determination was issued uh confirming that stream's intermittent status uh in the fall we have a little bit of an situation because this site is partially developed uh with an open order of
conditions already we have what we're showing here is essentially the uh existing conditions from that previous filing so we're sort of using the pre-existing conditions as our Baseline
here we'll just note that this Wetland encompasses a large portion of the site kind of starts up here in the by the frontage on South Washington arcs down and even arcs back up with a little finger down here as well as a small small isolated vegetated Wetland here in
the center so moving on to what we have proposed for the project uh in general The Proposal is to construct this gravel lay down yard for the applicant's business um he's a few
doors down uh East down South Washington Street currently needs a little more space for the business uh storing trench boxes Road plates excavation accessories these types of things so we have essentially a gravel lay down yard
through most of the usable area of the site we do have a proposed building up here by the frontage as well uh the intention with this is to really be a welding shop so kind of a bare bones building so to speak we have a retaining wall that
surrounds most of the proposed storage gravel area um that was done to kind of minimize the need for grading slopes out and we can also sort of reduce uh erosion or runoff potential by doing
that we're also showing uh STM Water Management we for Bays connected to a subservice infiltration field um going to do the heavy lifting for storm water management on this one we got a French
drain up in the frontage over here um we are are kind of clipping into your 25t buffer zone in a couple of areas so I want to draw to that real quick uh this blue hatched area is that
75 foot buffer zone these couple of pink swaths through here are going to be permanent impact to that 25t buffer zone so essentially above the retaining wall that total is just over 2700 Square ft we do have uh some minor temporary
impacts to the buffer zone to that 25t buffer as well that's just under 2700 Square ft that's for grading uh just to get a more reasonable Wall height and that'll get stabilized seated and planted afterwards um you know standing that we
are encroaching buffer zone we've proposed a couple of areas to go along with it they're shown in green here uh and essentially what we've done is we've areas that are a little thin in the under story so they have you know uh
a tree canopy for the most part um but there's really no shrub or sapling layer in these areas uh so what we've done is we've gone ahead and specked out a smattering of native plantings to go in these areas to kind of bolster that
buffer zone uh I do want to draw to section up here there is a concrete head wall uh that comes out from under the road here presumably Road drainage uh and there is kind of a a relatively unvegetated area between that uh outfall
and the Wetland itself so we figured it might be a good opportunity to uh improve the capacity of the buffer zone there to provide some filtration of storm water runoff and those types of things uh that's essentially overview of the project uh not too too much going on
here relatively simple um so if there's any comments questions recommend ation I'm happy to entertain any of that so this is yet another iteration of what has been proposed for this site correct uh it
appeared uh but it so this is not really an amended notice or an amended order of conditions there's already an existing order on this correct yeah so we had kind of coordinated with John on this topic um amending the order was not
really appropriate because it's a you know a pretty marked increase in the limit of work so amending that existing order wasn't really the right move here uh we've gone ahead and filed this notice of intent before closing out the previous order of conditions because we
wanted to um we didn't want to paint ourselves into a corner if if this proposal wasn't going to go anywhere we still want to be able to move forward with the previously approved order um so as this process moves along and if we
look like we're we're moving in the right direction with the commission here we will certainly be closing out that previous order all right so um I'm assuming there going to be questions and John do you want to begin or
or um I I made some comments in my report to the commission but I will let the commission members uh ask questions first on this one okay all right so um any questions for members of the
commission I have several okay so um I want to go back to the site plan for a minute and I I really um need you to focus on the distinction so our 25 foot is not a buffer it's a no Disturbed zone right so that's the first thing you
need to change on this plan is that it's that this isn't there's no wiggle room it's a no Zone okay that's the first question um or the first comment I have and is any portion of the site in a flood zone uh no no flood zone on the site okay uh
walk us through the potential the Wall height and what's what it's going to be made out of how it's going to be constructed yeah absolutely um Wall height varies over it up in in this neighborhood you know
we have bottom elevation 8 1 1/2 top at 87 so uh 5 1/2 ft there and we vary over its length you'll see uh 5 and 1/2 ft here and then we come along uh we PR
some grading below the wall over here to temper that that wall height a bit we end up with six feet and then we start we have a in this location then we start coming back down as we come up the Eastern property boundary so basically circling the
entire site to fill it because it's too low yeah the uh to install the storm water system as designed yeah we need a little bit more elevation here yes so where's the 25 foot no disturb uh it's this line here with the
sort of hat marks through it I think we uh we might take a better look at it on on this version it's on this diagram it's the blue hatched area okay and and what's the wall G to be made out
of a detail you showing detail there will be a det in the typ plans I'm not sure the material off the top of my head um concrete block wall it's concrete okay
um so okay you really have to prove to us on a virgin site that's not developed why you need to go in or a 25 foot no disturb and to me just trying to shoehorn this in to fit it in is not a good enough reason so you need to avoid it at all cost which means which tells
me you need to pull your walls in and if you don't have enough room to operate site's not really meant to be developed in this way because you have to abide by the 25 foot no build um that's the first thing I'll say and then the second thing
is the um the gravel surface so what type of equipment are you going to be operating on here because if you leave this as gravel it could be constantly chewing it up and you're going to end up washing some of those during a rain event you're going to actually end up washing some of those fines into the
Wetland so is the gravel surface really conducive to the operation of equipment here moving materials uh yeah I think that um this is not at all uncommon for a type of uh yard like this to have that that kind
gravel I didn't ask if it was common what my concern is it's going to lead to erosion so you really want to have it paved because you're going to have equipment grinding down that surface constantly and and leading to erosion and ruting so is there any
reason why it's not paved other than money cost uh well the not Paving it also kind of facilitates some of the uh the storm water management portions of the proposal so the the idea is that
well we can go back up to that sheet as well um we also are having these siment for BS as well uh with vegetation kind of interspersed vegetated strip between to connect to that underground storm
water system to collect a lot of that sediment because it is understood that that that is uh something we have to anticipate here okay I still think it needs to be paved it's it's going to you're going to have equipment operating on it and it needs to be paved um let's also talk
about the um the entry point where you mentioned that there was a cul under there is that cover discharging flows onto the site towards the Wetland yeah so this this is out from this catch Basin here okay yes
so that area it looks like you're going to enhance it yep we're proposing plantings in that zone right so there's probably a reason why that area maybe lacks top soil or locks vegetation and it's because of the erosive flows there is what that's telling me so it might
not be the ideal place to plant there's a reason it lacks vegetation so you don't want to go planting something it's going to get washed into the Wetland so I don't think that's a great location um and where is the access from the
road right in here is the the ACC oh okay it's really really hard to see uh those are the only comments I have and I'm not um I guess I'll go on record as saying is I'm opposed to any work in the 25 foot no disturb uh other
questions just one quick question is this slab in the 25 foot Zone too of the proposed building we just kind of barely clipped that that edge right here and that build push forward out of that zone we we can see if if we can push it
uh I imagine it's cited as such because of a a setback if I had to guess I don't know that distance off the top of my head um we can cly explore that so yeah so we we basically need to know that the site
wouldn't work or or why you're in at 25 all you're doing is just saying you're in the 25 so the due diligence and the burden of proof is on you to say why you need to be in the 25 right now I'm not seeing it except you want to put a 10 PB bag of crap on the site that's pretty small what
it yeah um so fairly good size building 50 by 100 what what is the activity that's proposed to go in there uh this isn't be a welding
job so it's basically a a business that's going to be operated during normal business hours is that correct correct yes so you're you had a label of a possible future uh oh yeah that's on one of the
other sheets yeah well I mean it it doesn't seem that possible is a word that relates I mean this is it's it's a business that's going to have to have uh some kind of facility associated
with it uh unless you want people just kind of peeing in the umber brush which is probably not going to be acceptable so I think the plans have to be revised to
include the um the Board of Health opinion as to where a viable septics system is going to go and that may well impact where your building can go as well yeah so the The Proposal with this
is have a rotating tour of Porton uh you're you're cutting out a little bit I didn't understand that sorry the uh the idea at least at this time is to just have portons that are regularly serviced
okay uh other questions okay if if we have portons which are a source of pollutants we would have to know where those are we would have to know about secondary containment if that's going to be your primary method of uh disposal we need to know where those are
we can get a location of that for you we I want to see secondary containment on those as well please does this building also have fire suppression you said wck shop yeah it'll it'll have it'll have all the required fire suppression it's
getting water and gas and electric so is there a is there any drainage in the floor or catch system in the floor or uh of you know base material there at all uh I'm not sure if the interior has
been spec to have drainage at this point um we are roof run off I don't think there's any uh interior drainage to be routed to the storm water system um well there there seem to be uh I
guess I guess the first step is um to open if there are no further questions in the commission although John do you want to make comments now or should I open it up to anyone in the um in the meeting wanted to who might want
to have a ask a question uh I think most of the comments that the members made this evening I mean I I know for a fact this this Project's going have to go in front of planning board for a site plan review um and you know part of the pieces is for them to make their decision they want to make sure the
storm water's done but you know obviously if what I did tell the applicant and his um consultant is that you know this will require another peer review uh by the uh storm water peer consultant so um you know if there are
uh revisions to this um plan or we do anticipate revisions to this plan uh those should be vetted out before um we engage the peer review consultant to I guess you know prohibit any sort of additional cost that could be you know I guess part of this project for the for
the applicant so um I guess the question that I would propose to the applicant is holding off on any potential peer review until this is at least gone in front of the commission and they're satisfied with the design and then also in front of the planning board to make sure they're satisfied with the design as well um because we don't want to have to
keep going back and forth with the peer review just to make sure it meets the specifications from both boards yeah absolutely John we appreciate that and and are definitely on board with that I think we'll get a step or two down the road here before we
we pull the trigger on that okay all right so we need to open up any questions from anyone in the meeting uh potentially about this project and if there are not we have some items that need to be considered
for uh in the continuation of this hearing uh in particular the issue of intrusions into the 25 foot no disturb and the other issues that John uh just raised so um
unless there's further discussion um we can consider a motion to continue and I think our next meeting comes up on the um the 24th now it's my understanding Chris
that you're going to be in front of the planning board on the 25th is that correct for this uh I'm not sure that off the top of my head to tell you the truth um okay I I'll say why don't we pencil it in for the fourth and if we need to push it out again if we decide that makes sense I'll be in touch with
you John all right sounds good all right that said we can consider a motion for continuation till the 24th so moved second so we have a motion by Dan seconded by Lisa Joe Paxton and Dan how
do you vote hi hi hi and Mark Lisa and Tom how do you vote hi hi hi and I'll through in an I so Chris will uh see you on the 24th or thereafter depends thank
you folks have a good night you bet thank you next item is file number 2 250- 11171 260 South Washington Street um a an anrad uh verifying onsite re resource
areas do we have a representative of the applicant yes hello uh yes so David mwell good good evening uh my name is David MAA with Kelly Engineering Group um
representing the applicant also uh present here at the meeting is John Rockwood with EOTech who did the uh Wetland resource valuation so um one of you how I share my screen I'm
trying to figure that out here on this particular there it is thank you that just came up um we want to use this okay can we see the screen now we can yes okay great um so the uh hearing
tonight is for abbreviated notice resource area delineation an rad uh for the property at 260 South Washington Street um the commission may remember I don't know a couple years ago that um the land owner had another uh use on
this as a billboard down in the corner over here and that um has been constructed and that order of conditions is um also either expired or about to expire and we got a look at that uh file
uh through the staff and realized they were really just focused in that one corner of the property um so we figured we would file a comprehensive um andreed on the entire property so Wetlands on the property consist of bordering vegetation wetlands
in the back over here with Route 24 here um industrial building at I think it's 280 South Washington Street I don't know the tenant and I think this is a hotel here maybe Extended Stay of America we're in between those two sites sorry
that's Route 495 right not 24 oh excuse me I went around I went around the corner already um Route 495 right here uh identified BBW associated with an intermittent stream before the uh runoff
goes over the highway another section of bordering vegetated Wetland here also identified um in the front of the property in shown in yellow is three um isolated areas showing Wetland vegetation we had Ecotech go take a look
at the property their recommendation was um got pretty definitive bvw out in the back there's some isolated wetlands in the front um need to check if there's any um potential for isolated land subject to flooding um to move forward with this
property so we put together an um anrad application which consists of this is a color version of the same plan the plan that's in your file is the black and white version um so we can always go back to that one if anybody wants to see it so we put together just a a report that
includes um all of the items that you need to have this stuff done including John's report we mentioned the fact that um there is an order of conditions on the site um as this moves forward um we might help help the uh other applicant
close that out if we need to I don't believe it's closed out yet we have the standard forms we got our D number 250117 from D all the checks were paid uh sent out the butter notices this
is all the the fun stuff John's reports very comprehensive starts you know a few pages down on the um on BBW he's got his soil plots all that fun stuff um map showing we're not on the flood plane on this particular
site there's the USGS map R the stream strats on the um on the roadway shoulder uh intermittent stream and this area of town is in the AC I believe it's the
canoe River aquifer in this particular area um and this whole area town is in that um so associated with the application we did um as John our consultant recommended isolated land subject to flooding calculations
for the low area uh depressions we've done a quick storm AR analysis what ilsf CS the first step is to determine if the Watershed can generate um a quarter acre foot of water we took a look at all of those uh things we've detailed it out in
a little discussion we showed all the uh depressions and the drainage areas around the uh isolated Wetlands we obser oberved three isolated Wetlands but then we also observed there's kind of a flat area in the
middle in between some of them and we we uh checked that for ilsf as well we did our hydraulic calculations for all these these areas you'll note that um to do them right we actually consider the the part that was identified it is as
isolated Wetlands as a paved surface or imperious surface even though it's most likely not um the surrounding areas we use the nrcs soils Maps which we included in the report um the areas are all group a soils here we think this is
a kind of maybe an old gravel borrow which shows um pits udah Thorns graval um complex there so the runoff calculations for each individual
um check for ilsf cal um generated essentially no runoff because we have very well- drained soils here and you run that for the one year storm the way ilsf works for anybody who doesn't know is you determine um the Basin area
itself you run the one-year storm if it generates a quarter acre foot you are most likely you are ilsf if it can contain it and then you run the 100-year storm and the upper boundary of that 100-year storm within that drainage
basin is the boundary of your isolated land subject to flooding um we did get just some minor comments from the staff um this afternoon and these are all the attachments associated with our report including quoting the uh
regulations from the wetlands protection act and he um John had said we might want to just show some spot grades on our drainage Maps which we did and we figured we' just show them to you but we didn't really know exactly um what we
want to do to better document this so we figur fig we would show we could do and have a discussion with the commission and um and move forward from there I also stuck at the end of this I didn't see that I emailed them over usually I do that's the proof that we sent our
butter notices out the day that we filed I put this at the end of our little presentation so with that we think we have a a a decent comprehensive application for consideration by the commission and we have the uh the team here to uh answer
any question questions and um move forward so in that I think John if you'd like to supplement that at all before I give it back through the chair that would be great um if not maybe just uh introduce yourself to to the discussion
John Rockwood from EOTech I'm a principal environmental scientist and I'm a senior Wetland uh professional Wetland scientist I delineated the site in December there was no snow cover ever the soils weren't Frozen it was actually
good conditions to delineate you know there's a pocket of bordering vegetated wetlands in the Middle with a channel that drains to the East and there's a channel along 495 both of the channels are intermittent there's a pocket of
wetlands up in the western corn Northwestern corner of the site and then there's um the three isolated areas um that were delineated based upon vegetation and hydrology that pretty much sums it
up so those three isolated areas are not regulated Wetlands then they are not regulated under the ACT unless they qualify as isolated land subject to flooding Norton doesn't have a bylaw so there's no jurisdiction under a
bylaw and uh those are the only uh things that count under this particular [Music] filing so it almost looks like again maybe just just one quick comment it almost looks like this um area has been
uh damaged by off-road vehicles is that the is that the sense of seeing it on the ground as well a lot of ATVs out there at one point it looks like this trails and other things but it could have been
uh you know past work on the site there's pits there's uh and mounds on the site so it could have been think it might have been a borrow area for some of maybe the construction of the highway or something at some point some we looked
at some historic aerial photos some of them which the whole whole areas cleared maybe 10 or 20 years ago something like that okay uh Lisa go ahead please I just had a question about uh John about so you did the delineation in December um so you wouldn't have seen
any evidence of vernal pools and those areas so I understand there's no pvps mapped out there by the state or certified but is what is your gut feeling as to the viability of potential
grma pools out there out of c a resource area under the ACT there a type of wildlife habitat that occurs within other re Within um resource areas or even in unregulated Uplands
um any area that contains water in the spring has a possibility I can't really right say I really didn't there was no water in any of them when I was there and groundwater is certainly coming up you know from December through January and February groundwater is certainly
coming up and coming up soon we're going to start to get some uh rain but if the soils are all tight a the water is going to go into the ground pretty quickly um there's no real evidence of flooding Within These Things John can
comment on that from what he observed because he was out there more recently but there was no significant evidence of uh flooding there's a little bit of ice cover in one of them but um other than
that there's no real evidence at this time so so John Thomas we might just want to um put something in this anrad that maybe this has to be Revisited in the spring to determine whether there are any veral pools out
there yeah I have already conveyed that to the the applicant that for instance you know it's we're outside Vernal pool season so I cannot confirm the presence of veral pools on the property at this time um Y and we have done that in the past for other an RADS where you know
they come in for a winter delineation and basically reserve the right to or the applicant to evaluate that um prior to the filing a notice of intent or they can conservatively say that they think that it may be a potential Burnal pool and if they want to provide that
supplemental information to us um with the notice of intent or during the process of that notice of intent to you know establish that yes we did do a survey we did evaluate this and they can provide that information to us then you know that gives them that ability to say
okay that looks like that can not be a factor in this but you know I think as of right now you know these three isolated Wetlands um based on the calculations and information that they've provided uh do not look like they would constitute isolated lands
flooding based on the data U and thank you for getting that Spot Shot data over to me um you know and the commission because that shows that an actual field uh um survey was done on the property a lot of people have tried to just incorporate liar imagery and call that
good unfortunately that's not usually good so I appreciate you guys getting it over to us today so um so I'm I'm a little bit confused so if we have we were G to we the commission is can can issue an anrad
with a qualifier basically is that what we're talking about vernal pools aren't a resource area no they're not but they Ur in one so even if it's not subject to okay so for instance if those don't qualify as ilsf and there's still a veral pool in them it's still qualifies
as a veral pool under the water quality regulations yeah and that's another thing to bring up too is water quality certificate potential I mean let's say you're coming in with a project for this and you're going to fill all three of those isolated Wetlands um you know you got to make sure they're less than 5,000
square feet so that's something to consider as well because you still need to file a water quality CT for that um and since it's an naacc I mean we're talking NEPA thresholds and all the the Jazz so just some things to consider moving forward with this project as you
look at it yeah so David it's it's undetermined so in the spring we would ask you to um you know or before you come before us again is to check out those three isolated areas and the BBW to uh see if there's any verol
activity we would just in the in the oad we would just say it is it's uh unconfirmed it's unknown at this time whe they're I mean the other the other thing here is that you know it's a winter delineation it's round upon by DP to to
confirm wetlands in the winter time and um you know it's outside the outside the Vernal pool season so it's not like we can really verify anything and I feel like we're doing uh the applicant a favor by you know me look going out there and doing a winner evaluation and saying that the flags look good I mean
we could we could request you know that uh a third party do the investigation if we don't feel confident so I mean that's the other option too we're just trying I was just trying to understand how it would work um but but you you are expressing a
degree of confidence that none of these areas will be vernal pools so all it takes is in another few weeks confirming that they're not Vernal pool
and a note can be added to the um the decision be note there' be a note in the rad that indicates that the site should be evaluated for the presence of you know Vernal pool biology and hydrology during the appropriate season that's all
that's necessary it's pretty simple pretty standard yeah and and the season is coming where if there's an urgency of time with a regard to what you're going to do with this it I'm assuming that's what what's underfoot here that you can
do that evaluation and submit new data and that'll be done well I think that's great I just uh I haven't heard of an oad like that but it makes sense to me and I appreciate everybody's time and consideration of uh putting all the things out there and and
um helping us vet the property I think it's great certainly heard of that so it's it's not a real issue no so so John Thomas are you comfortable with saying you're you're you're good with the delineation I mean I guess I'm guess I'm a little little taken back by this one
because I mean what do you expect coming in for a winner delineation and rat I mean I I guess that's my question I'm not trying we're we're not we're not we're not putting any pressure on anybody and we don't expect an approval in one night and we appreciate you we appreciate the discussion so I don't I
don't want us I don't want you to seem like we're taking back at all because I'm not and this is why this is why we make the projects this is why we meet with the professionals and we're we're in the process so um yeah I guess I I you know I think we're you know as it
stands right now with everything that's been said I think we're in great shape and as you say if um if we have vernal pools there we have to get through that and anything else as John Rockwood had said you know we're trying to get our resource areas identified and as the
chair had mentioned there's somebody looking at the property and we're we are um we're looking to to move forward and um with Vern pool season coming up it's probably not a a big delay and could probably run concurrently if we are uh certain that there aren't any veral
pools any aren't any veral pools there and would prevent um any future development of the front portion of the property um we would probably just continue on with our other things we were looking to get you know a good
feeling on this before we um to start the other portions of of of a of a development project and um I think we're I think we're there so I I I think this has been very productive I took some notes and I appreciate it we did know about the AC
EC um the water quality certificate was one that wasn't quite on my radar because I figured when we if we were to displace the isolated W Wetlands that were not jurisdictional I
um we have three and um but to I think it's a half an acre in an AC we have to we have to fight with meat and um so if you if you fill more than 5,000 square feet of isolated or bordering vegetated Wetlands that's one
of the thresholds to my understanding for meepa um and if you require a water quality certificate that are automatically triggers the need for meepa review so I would just make sure that and I'm saying confidently that I've lck the site I looked at those
flags and I didn't want to change any of those flags um based on my review so just make sure that the area of those isolated Wetlands is less than 5,000 square feet gotcha uh if that's less than 5,000 square feet the next phase of
this whatever you're proposing may go a lot easier than what you would want for for any sort of potential development on this site um you know and I mean if you fill in all three of those wetlands and that's over 5,000 square fet you've got a lot of work ahead of you and uh you
know your consultant and your applicant need to really look at potential maybe Alternatives uh to lessen any sort of potential impacts and that's just me giving you some advice um as you this thank you thank you I appreciate it it's an angle that I didn't uh I I always consider the 5,000 squ feet as one but
we're all on the same property it's all y they're not very large though so we'll we'll keep going on those and you we'll um we'll work with the commission obviously if we do a development here we're coming back anyway we'll be we be doing buffer zone and everything else
obviously and we we'll need to work with the commission um for any work that we have to do through meepa because I think if anything goes in here we have to go to mea by the way to pay just to pay within the AC all right so any project other than a
single family house in an AC generally gets thrown into meep only if you trigger State permit if you trigger State permit right you have to trigger a state permit state permit's indirect indirect access permit we need
so we flag this is an we're we're not we're not talking about development here sood okay all right so I think we need to open this question up to uh any questions of anyone in the uh anyone in
the meeting have a question about this and it's if not uh it's my understanding that we have enough information to issue an anrat and we can potentially close this is that correct John that is my understanding if the
commission is comfortable uh all right so so unless there are further questions or discussions we we can consider a motion on this uh hearing I'll make a motion to close the public hearing for file
250117 second by we have a motion by Lisa seconded by Joe um for closing the hearing on file number 250-17 uh
so Dan Lisa and Joe how do you vote i i i and Paxton Mark and I think Tom I had to leave the meeting so how do you guys vote hi hi and I'll vote I so
the motion carries so um you you have your to-do list with regard to those areas proving that truly isolated and not um bural pools but at any rate we'll be issuing an
OED uh probably at our next meeting so thank you guys thank you thank you for your time you appreciate it appreciate the input uh next up is uh a new hearing file number 250
11143 uh 360 South liser Street and uh so it's request for Amendment and as I recall this was one very large building and I guess that's uh there's a proposal to to change that U you can just refresh my memory and
maybe um share your screen to show us the plan sure let me just pull my screen here so good evening everyone Michael Tor from civil environmental Consultants
I'm here on behalf the Alin of FAL building Corporation so as many of you recall we were before you last Springtime for new7 intent at that time it was a 35,000 square foot Warehouse building
so since that time the land owners ultimately decided to sell the property so we're working with the new purchaser for the property so the new purchaser for gy building Corporation is a contractor by trade so this is going to
be an expansion of their operations down to the South Coast so in place of a 35,000 foot building they're looking for three smaller buildings two buildings about 4,000 square feet which are
Warehouse kind garage space in a 12,000 or 1200 foot office building so quick refresher for everyone 360 South Worcester we're right next to thermofisher or Thermo King and yond
that is actually the Home Market Foods Distribution Center so the proposed project as I mentioned the three buildings located within the same footprint the previous development so the dash dot line around the perimeter
is the previous limit disturbance that was approved as part of the order or of the notice of intent so all proposed work is staying within that notice of intent the Project's been designed with an asphalt area towards
the the front with about 16 passenger car spaces and then a gravel area towards the rear of the buildings that gravel is surrounded on the plants with a 12in BM to provide containment around the
rear gravel storage area so gravel in this case was used for infiltration purposes but we included a 12-in burm just to prevent any runoff from sediment going in towards Wetlands from a drainage perspective this
project gener aligns with the previous development so maintaining similar drainage patterns the site was split East West uh with this develop this revised model the dra has been designed where
we're meeting in some cases exceeding the previous performance standards on the project for all the storm water regulations so I know John has sent this out for peer review for storm water and we're waiting to get the results back on that one with that i' open up to anyone any
questions uh all right well it's my understanding that you've markedly reduced this the storm water requirements here I mean John is that your your overview so um basically what they're
doing is they're keeping the same limit of work um so that way they can come in for an amendment and the footprint of the development is less than what they proposed originally um but the storm
water um will need to be basically peer reviewed by peer review consultant to make sure that it uh is in compliance with the handbook and our local bylaw uh so that where we're currently standing I mean The Limited work we already
permitted this um as the original limit of work so what they're showing is less of a impact area overall um from what was um originally proposed but we still need to make sure that we go through
this the procedure with the storm water review uh anyone have questions on so um Michael the area in the back that's gravel is that going to be used for so it's contract Contracting used for the property so it'll be
miscellaneous storage for the contractor what he'll use back there I don't have exact details of what he's going to be storing back there mostly equipment or materials that he'd be using for his prop projects I think John Thomas it's something we should probably discuss as
a commission at some point you know with these Contra yards yeah we had the same situation yeah yep yep and whether we're going to look to having these areas paved because I am just not seeing that the operational equipment in gravel over
time is successful I just don't understand how it's going to work I don't understand how the soils are going to become compacted you're going to have material popping up through the voids it's going to run off with rains continuously so I'm just not seeing how that's helpful
to the vetland at this point on any site so I think we need to discuss this as a commission um the last proposal did it also include the gravel in the back the one at um the one on Hill Street is you're talking about the same project
sorry the same layout no they had okay a parking and building I believe the building was more centralized okay correct and from purpose of storm water in terms of the infiltration and everything with runoff we did model conservatively as the
gravel as impervious area so we did take that into account into our analysis and providing that 12in perimet burn and was intended to help contain any runoff from sediment on the site so I still think it's something we need
to discuss as a commission and maybe even or with d it's at some point because we're seeing this over and over again and I'm just not con I mean I'm just not convinced it's going to work over the long term you're talking like maintenance nightmare right y scenario y
yeah yep I'm talking about voids becoming compacted so it's great that you're going to have infiltration but then what happens when the if there's equipment out there and there the operation of equipment soils become compacted and therefore you don't have that um um paracity anymore and so what
happens then yeah that's when start starts to run off so we can't really leave it up to the owner at some point to you know refresh that gravel because we know that's not realistic so that's the issue I'm having with
having these gravel areas over and over again uh with the operation of equipment on them yeah and I'm speaking to this gravel area we've pitched these two deep on catch that go through War equality to
help address some of those issues but in ter we're not we are intending for this to be impervious area we're not planning for voids run off to count for infiltration on this and our modeling right so what you're telling me
is you're going to capture and treat that's great but what happens to the underlying material over a few years that's what my concern is not I I understand that you're going to capture or treat it you're going you're treating it as impervious you're counting for it in your calculation for storage all that
good stuff that has to happen but I'm talking about the Integrity of the ground surface after a few years yeah the first time plow goes through here if there's materials in the winter you know all that material is going to be displaced
yeah and then redressed in the spring probably with new material I mean you you got to I see your point Lisa and that's the challenge with um storage yards like this is that you know we're not thinking long term you know 20 30
years from now what potentially could be and that's why I think they all have to be paveed John that's why they all usually are paved so that it can be so that it can be maintained and nobody wants to PVE them because they don't want it's called the
cost of doing business it's called the cost of development and nobody wants to do it and it's really the only reason why they don't want to do it it's the cost that shouldn't be of course it is but it shouldn't be our issue it shouldn't be a potential issue with degradation to that resource area over
time because somebody doesn't want to pay to have something paved is this primarily a landscaping contractor or it's unknown they also do some civil Contracting work so he works in landscaping he also has some civil
Contracting yeah which means heavy equipment right there could be and Julian we we can't you know this person could just build it to spec and then sell it or lease it out to somebody else we can't we can't take a guess on who's going to
use this and what they're going to use it for right now we know that there's going to be storage and there's going to be equipment operation out there so I for one going on the record is saying that I think this needs to be paved uh I you know I agree with you
that a gravel surface is great as long as you don't use it very much but this is you know if it's any kind of volume business it's going to be have a lot of [Music]
traffic um so so we this still has to go out to be peer reviewed so yeah it does so we we definitely have to continue this um and I don't know if we open this up to the
whole meeting for questions uh but if there is a question raise it now otherwise um we can we can consider a motion for continuation um and uh Michael I think
you're going to have to raise that issue of the lack of effective durability of this gravel surface for this kind of business activity absolutely we can have those conversations with a client I mean it's not going to change
the storm water um design if everything was you calculated everything as impervious right Michael correct yeah so it's just a topic of discussion for material being represented at that location um and and as a followup to
that are there Provisions for snow storage here yes there is snow storage identified on the site layout around the perimeter so these dashed Out Lines around the perimeter what about in the back though uh you provide either just over the top
of the gravel BM so you have an enormous area in the back how are you going to where are you going to put how that's snow the area in the back is bigger than the front yet you have more snow storage in the front which is kind of counterintuitive but absolutely we if if the commission would
like we can provide calculation for the no storage around the the site I think there needs to be more in the back yeah thank you uh all right so unless there further discussion or questions we can consider
a motion for or continuation of the hearing for file number 250- 11143 I'll make that motion so Dan I think you made the motion and we need a second
second uh seconded By Lisa so Dan Paxton and Mark how do you vote i i i and Lisa and Joe I I and I'll throw in an eye so Michael we'll see you
on the 24th thank you everyone thanks Michael uh so there no requests for coc's or extensions we do have an order of conditions for file number 250- 11172
um which is the king Barbershop uh remedy for an unfortunate violation um a lot more yellow than usual yeah a
is um describing the um disturbance uh four is noting that this is a action related to an enforcement order five
um it authorizes restoration um six notes oversight will be needed and seven is a uh requirement for monitoring
reports and then we had uh 31 is um also the delineation of the monitoring report 32 notes requirement for visual barrier
um so uh any I guess the question I have is in the in the headline it labels this as a attachment a we do we generally have attachments yeah so it goes yeah it goes
as an attachment and this is it considered attachment a because when you issued conditions it says enter attachment so attachment I could call it just attachment one but attachment a seems more appropriate so it's just that I had
never observed that before and this is the first time or have you used that before it's not just me I mean this is this is from going all the way back when Jennifer was here she put it as attachment a as well so um I guess you learn something new
every day right yeah I was I was asleep for a long time um any questions Lisa any questions John yeah what's the difference between s and 31 are they say the
same 7 and 31 yeah I guess yeah I guess 31 is the same so I guess I can one's a condition one's a finding right but I could just remove it because it's a condition I thought it would be appropriate to put it up there too so
that way they know they need to do it because I know it's duplicative but it being that for instance this the first sheet you see when you open it um since they don't know I'd rather it be right in front of them on the first page so I just say uh
reference condition 31 or something yeah because it's a little yeah okay and their copy won't be in yellow is that right no none none of the stuff we issue is in yellow just so we know yeah no I I I got uh I think in
this particular order uh having it right up front seems to be needed that way there's there's no um I guess discrepancy
further discussion if not we can consider a motion I'll make a motion to accept the heck is this oh the is this an order is an
order R for a second uh an order for file uh 250-1 172 was discussed second uh we have a motion by Lisa second by Paxon um so uh Dan Mark and Lisa how do you
vote i i i and Paxton and Joe how do you vote hi hi and also in an i motion carries and I think that brings us to the end
yeah oh I one more item I will not be here for the 24th unless I can do it from Tahiti oh so I guess the question is Lisa will you be here the
24th okay I just unmuted myself yes I will be okay good so Lisa will be the honorary chair on the 24th um and Dan you can be uh the fill in Vice chair how's that sound okay all
right as long as leas is here it's no problem okay excellent all right well if anybody has anything else um D do you have anything no I was just gonna say even if Lisa isn't here I will
try my best to rise to the occasion you could drive the bus down yeah there's going to be no Preamble moving forward so oh the other thing I wanted to bring up was I was going to put this on the next agenda but um the governor hasn't released whether we can continue doing
Zoom meetings yet but I'm hoping they release it sooner rather than later I know that there's probably a lot of stuff going over with the state going on right now so um but it's till March 31st 2025 um I think we have maybe two or
three more meetings till we can till we have to go back in person so um if we don't hear anything I'm hoping we hear something sooner rather than later so that we can continue doing Zoom meetings otherwise we have to meet in person which is not a bad thing I'm just saying that um you know just so way everybody's
aware so can I ask why are we doing away with the Preamble because it's the same old same old and everybody kind of knows knows that we're doing Zoom meetings and that okay we have permission to do Zoom
meetings through legislation suspending that requirement of the open meeting law and it's like how many times do we need to read that see Julian's trying to shave off five minutes so that's what he's trying
to do so in his efforts well I I have not been to another commission that reads that well okay they so why do you want us to keep reading it well I I F said he's doing his thing I don't know I just no one
I've never been to another hearing where someone's read that thing but anyway should have shared that once ago if anyone misses it I'll be happy to declaim from famous uh environmentalists
you know John mure somebody like that or uh in nature is Pres conservation of the world something like that all right well just then at the next meeting if I if I prompt you to say it just just remind me that you don't have to okay
okay yeah I think I think there's a tremendous amount of performance art going on right now and maybe we can just get rid of some of our performance or or do it in private so all right all right
thank you all right thank you everybody morning everyone night night