##VIDEO ID:aCmkb9U9O5g## so pursuant to Governor Healey's March 29 2023 Bill extending several Co era policies and programs by allowing virtual meetings to continue from March 31st 2023 to March 31st 2025 this meeting of the northern Conservation Commission will be conducted via remote partic participation to the greatest extent possible specific information and the general guidelines for remote participation by members of the public and orities with a right and or requirement to attend this meeting can be found at the end of the agenda members of the public attending this public hearing SL meeting virtually will be allowed to make comments if they wish to do so during the portion of the hearing designated for public comment by raising their hand virtually or pressing star 9 if participating by phone no in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time by a technological means in the event that we are unable to do so despite best efforts we will post on Norton Cable website an audio or a vis video recording transcript or other comprehensive record of the proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting so uh conservation members uh participating tonight are myself Julian kades Dan Pearson Mark Fernandez and Joe cavalo uh we may have other members uh joining us uh later we have Lisa coroa um pxton H and Tom bestest who may join later um so um we the first item of business is I guess there is a a new bill um that automatically um uh any permits between the time of January 1st 2023 and uh 2025 January first get an automatic extension so John can you comment a little more on that or is that is that the sum total yeah that's basically the summary from what I gather from reading the correspondent so actually we had a couple requests for extensions come in and they asked um if they were if this was applicable it said based on what I'm looking at yes it is so their permit is automatically extended for two years um and that would mean that any project that was issued between this time frame would get an automatic 2-year extension on top of so it' be like a if it was issued now it could get five years so okay uh and then we have we have um let's see one file number 250- 11161 uh 171 West Main Street which was an anrad uh request that was previously um continued until January 13th I believe that's correct and we just received some new information which I have to review and then our next item is file number 250- 11163 concerning uh 400 Arnold Palmer Drive and that or Boulevard whatever they call it um and they have also requested a continuance also until January 13 yes you'll actually have to vote on that one uh and we can entertain a motion right now to do that and get it out of the way Dan might not be able to to make the motion but um still moves all right we have a uh a motion by Joe and Dan if you want to Second it you can put your your your thumb up that's a second roll call vote starting with Dan and Mark hi and it looks like Dan also uh is positive and Joe I and I'll throw in an I so the motion carries our our next uh item is [Music] um well looks like it's um we we have this 280 West Main Street they are requesting a continuance is that correct you skipped over Mansfield AV I I did um because I I thought um well actually that one the one that's a January 13th uh request for continuous that refers to another one yes so another um last minute request we got for continuance was for 280 West Main Street and they don't have a file number as of yet to my knowledge so the next item then is um well you tell me are we are we so we have to we have to vote to accept the continuance for 280 West Main Street and then we have to entertain uh the applicant's representative tonight for 257 259 Mansfield got it so so we're up to a request for continuation for 280 uh West Main Street then so again looking for a vote a motion for that so moved second and it looks well we got a couple of seconds but I think um we'll we'll say Mark uh made the motion Joe made the second so um Dan and Joe how do you vote I and that's an I from from Dan and Mark hi and I'll throw in an ice the mo motion carries um the hearing for 28 West Main Street is continued until January 13th and now we come to um file number 250-1 1166 concerning the project at 257-259 Mansfield Avenue do we have a representative we do I good evening everybody M basy from Bower engineering everyone had a good Thanksgiving since I saw you last great did um so so again thanks for meeting with this evening I think I have in my there were kind of two items that the commission had asked us to to follow up on as a kind of a really quick summary we we met with the commission a couple times um we've been approved by the planning board um we were here at at the last hearing and there were the couple items that we were asked to check in on the first one was um there was a question about let me share screen before I too far uh the first one was a question regarding the the pole yards and just taking a couple pictures of them and and I tried to explain it but a picture say a thousand words so we we did provide a a couple photos of those um this is from their their New Hampshire location this pretty recently built kind of couple examples of kind of what they would expect with the pole yard um this one here shows how how they would kind of drill the poles kind of at a a regular pattern but but essentially for training um there's no real necessarily Rhyme or Reason to how they set it up but just they'd set it up as convenient for training they would have them up um for a period of time uh you know from time to time they need to replace them as they they go bad or they get worn and then even some classes might consist as I understand it of um if a pole needs to replace you know drilling that pole in place you know to practice that on site um another photo example I have here this is a much larger scale than what what's being proposed at the subject site but just for for kind of concept to how they might have like a truck come down in so they would have kind of this similar situation where they have poles and I guess we we we're proposing as gravel just to be conservative but really I think it'll be allowed to to vegetate a little bit the pole area um there will they'll do their training and then they will walk just like a little bit of area around around the outside to to access it um we were also asked a question if um if any of it any of it or all of it could be paved and and that's kind of where the where the the the poll photos originated from we did send a send a sketch we ran this past the um the folks over at a ew and they're amable to to Paving this area this would kind of give them a an access to pull in back out and and go out but then still give them I guess what I consider maximum flexibility for how these your your picture is loading very slowly so oh I'm sorry go it's now on the screen um so go over that paved area is that the the red that yeah that's that's correct yeah it would give them the ability to pull in a truck back it out and pull it out and park up along the poles that might be you know used for training in this area but also give them I guess maximum flexibility if they did want to drill more Pooles in this area for whatever their their training needs were um if if the commission was amendable to to that um we did uh kind of put in our memo just a quick note about uh storm water and we did the storm water design you know impervious area calc you know factors in on a couple different locations uh groundw recharge requirement water quality volume treatment uh Peak flows volumes things like that and and we designed it if it was was impervious so this doesn't appreciably impact the drainage Cals or anything anything like that and it will be treated by um a proposed grass sale um in fire retention SL ring Garden area I mean there was some concern expressed about spills of either hydraulic fluid or something like that should there be be a mishap but I assume these trucks are equipped with um you know the Speedy dry and and other other materials to manage a spill pretty much on the spot is that correct yeah yeah and to be honest I don't think they they the trucks wouldn't be um there like St I think the question too was also are they going to be parked there or staged there or things like that and really it would just be used for training um in the above photo these trucks are here training they don't they don't park here or anything like there there's an active class um going on um so so it wouldn't really be much use of the area at all except for just minimally during during training areas yeah but there's always there's always the concern for equipment a malfunction like a a hydraulic line giving out and and cusing a an exposure so U as long as the equip the trucks are equipped with materials to manage that ex that spill on the spot without having to call you know clean harbors or something like that yeah I suspect that's pretty regular um practice for them in general because they're these trucks are um are everywhere right um constantly working along the roads or along Wetlands all right was that pretty much uh the only information that was outstanding uh yep yeah just a quick note I forget I think it was Mr carolo had kind of raised the question about the um the the stakes along the 25 foot buers so we did ask um ibw about that just to see if there's any concerns on their end we explained that it would likely be a a 4 in by 4 inch by 4 foot high post with some sort of sign on it um and they had no concerns they were amenable to that and and they weren't concerned about it being uh near their Pollard so uh any commission members have questions or John do you have any com comment no I think we've hatched this one out uh enough for this project um I will say to the commission that I don't have uh order conditions ready up on the Google Drive I have a draft available um it's pretty standard um from what we have uh issued in the past I don't have one easily accessible for the board but if there was anything that the board members would specifically like to add to the order of conditions if the commission chooses to issue one um because we can't issue we can't close an issue in order this evening we'd have to issue we have to close an issue in order this evening because of the 21-day window uh for till our next meeting on the 13th so I just want to bring that up to the board we can hold off on issuing but you know if if everyone is comfortable I don't mind issuing provided that the board doesn't have a a surplus of uh substantial comments well I I I mean concern was expressed before about um the proximity of this equipment near wetlands in sensitive areas so uh you know I know Matthew you don't necessarily have absolute knowledge as to whether these trucks carry a spill kit and I I think that putting that in as a condition might be I mean it may be a mood point because you know they might carry a spill kit anyway but I think requesting that they have a a spill kit for for hydraulic exposure um and you know does it does it happen often no but you know I have a contractor working on my site on my uh at home right now and he described an incident where he had a delivery truck that burst a hydraulic line so it does happen and if if they don't keep it right in the truck I'm sure they could keep it in the facility right there that's that's you know very close as well yeah so I I think that would perhaps John be be a reasonable uh condition to include for this particular situation noted any of the m other members have questions julan may ask a question yeah sure um I just want to make sure and I may have missed it um did you ever ask Matt uh whether during um you know inclement weather whether they work inside the training facility or not we we kind of went over maybe you can comment on that with that that in Clement weather they they have an inside facility yeah they they do yeah so I asked him uh because one one other question I think came up last year was you know plowing or things like that would they want to do that they wanted to leave that that flexibility open which is why they were open to the paved but I would expect that if it was um if it was in CL mether uh they would they would go inside because they do have the interior facility too okay perfect thank you so that brings up another point that I was going to add in there too Matt I don't know if it's going to be amenable to the facility and operations but we're going to want to keep any sort of snow storage outside that 25 foot buffer um so that's probably going to be one of the conditions I put in there that that that sounds very reasonable I think I had that in the draft originally anyway yeah I think before we uh end the discussion we we have to open the yeah the questions up to anybody in the meeting who might have a question so I don't know if this is the time to do that anybody any other commission members have questions uh if not anyone in the meeting have a question about this particular project so I don't see any hands or hear anybody taking their mics off mute and asking so um I think we've addressed all of the um concerns uh and because it's more than 21 days to our next meeting we're to request Matt that we do a continuation until January 13th but at that time we would be closing the hearing entertaining the orders and voting on the orders so so there's no time lost in in doing that y understood so if there are no further questions or discussion we can entertain a motion to continue this hearing until January 13th so moved second yeah I think actually Dan had his Thum up first so we'll make it Dan made the motion Joe made the second and Dan you vote Yes as a yes and Joe and Mark how do you vote I I and I'll vote and I so the motion carries so you can go over with John Matt as to whether or not you even need to attend the uh January 13 meeting that sounds great if I don't see on the 13th thanks to all the commission members for your time and and to John and Megan too Matt before you go just one clarification we're going to be sending potentially an order to you on the third on the 14th the day after the 13th um is that correct or should I send it over to the training facility the original yeah yeah plan on sending it to us I'll check with them but I'm sure they'll want us to record all right thank you yes thanks so we dealt with um 0 West Main Street so we're now up to file number 250 uh 1167 which is somewhere on Reservoir Street and an anrad um do we have a representative of that applicant or have they requested a continuation oh was the Wetland scientist on the site is representing the project I'm also here with Dan Campbell who is the applicant okay and U so we'll have you share your screen absolutely one second let me just rearrange some okay so this is the site plan for the anrat at zero Reservoir Street the applicant is requesting the uh approval of the Wetland lines which consists of a couple of flags here starting at GCA 10 going to GCA 27 this is a large bordering vegetated Wetland system that is in the center of the site several parts of this Wetland line on the southern section have already been approved through various orders of conditions but tonight we're just looking for the approval of these 17 or so Flags site is not we just need to zoom out and to confirm the the spot on Reservoir Street that we're looking at yep so this is uh 25 Reservoir Street 23 Reservoir Street down here to the South is the main road um this is where the the other projects were already approved by the commission several orders of conditions so this is Mansfield Avenue down at the bottom of the screen corre down here to the sou 140 and the the uh takeoff to Reservoir in man in Norton is just off to the to the right of our screen then that is correct Yep this is a a large bordering Wetland system in the center of the site sit's not mapped for any natural heritage estimated or priority habitat for rare species there's no mapped potential or certified vernal pools on the site additionally it's not within a FEMA flood zone outstanding resource water area or in AC EC so if you have any questions tonight I'd be happy to answer them John and I walk to the site this morning to review several of the flags um we were in agreement that the flags were correct on the site walk several flag or three flags or sorry maybe two flags were added today uh to this site plan and then resubmitted that was GCA 13 and gca1 14 they weren't shown on the original submitt and then additionally there was a a skew line in the middle here so that was also removed and the plan was updated this is the 25 ft no disturb Zone shown here and then we have the 100t buffer zone up to the north going across Reservoir Street so if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them so basically with each the A and B Lots the entire rear is effectively Wetland and then you've got it this the front parcel adjacent Reservoir Street is um all in the buffer essenti effectively yep so this whole area where my cursor is that's all bordering vegetated Wetland and then this area up where I'm tracing closest to Reservoir Street is in the buffer zone so subject to conservation review for anything that would be built there but outside of the actual Wetland itself and just to follow up and confirm this is not a permit for any sort of building or land use development this is just to review and to assess and verify the accuracy of the Wetland d and like Tom said I was out there this morning with him we walked the line and there are no need there was no need to change any of the flags that are out there so I just want to let the commission know that if they have any questions or the public have any questions we can answer them but I think that we could potentially close this out tonight if we need to uh yeah the only question is do we I I don't see do we do we have a an oad um or or so we do have an oad there's going to be no need to have special conditions for this one because it's only BBW and the uh terminology can be um from Flags I think it's G14 to Tom what's the one that's on the property over there to the right G27 would be g26 so G14 to g26 that's what we're confirming CU those the flags that on the property and that's what I would put on the form all right uh so any commission members have questions about this and I'm going to extend it to anybody in the meeting have questions about this sorry just a quick question for me on lot a are we also confirming the the flags on the southern part of the uh property or I guess it's actually the whatever part of the the bottom part of that property no we we are only seek they are only seeking confirmation the flags that are on the Northern side okay um those flags to the rear were already approved through another permit um and I don't think they're going to be proposing any potential land use development within the Wetland for whatever they're proposing in the future so therefore the only need would be for uh getting the street side of the Wetland flagged thanks any other questions one quick question there's no annual streams on the property is there or adjacent property there's no mapped perennial or intermittent streams located on the site no thank you so we can proceed to close and then we will vote later with regard to that very uh restricted oat well I would open it up to the public first to see if they have questions but I already asked if anybody in the meeting has questions oh no I don't see any and you can do that in one or two ways you can either go to the reactions button and there is a raise hand option or we're kind of informal so you can just take your your mic off mute and identify yourself but um I don't see anybody doing that so I'm presuming there there are no comments or questions uh and we're coming up against potentially considering a motion to close so there seem to be no questions and we're considering if somebody wants to dare to make a motion to close some moved motion made by Mark second seconded by Joe uh Mark and Joe how do you vote I I and Dan I presume that green check mark is a yes and I'll throw in a yes so we've closed the uh the anrad hearing thank you very much you bet so we'll we'll um bring this up in the sign conditions Etc section so our um next one is an xrated filing 250 XXXX root 123 intersection lights and I'm presume that's at U northwester Street and uh did I get that John that's correct um and so we have a representative for that yep uh um Matt shoot here with beta group and Elise trip as well from beta group um Can folks see uh a screen right now with a aerial view of the intersection we can great so just uh want to give everyone a little little background on this one so um beta is working for the town of Norton uh on this project it's going to be a a construction project where mot will be funding all of the construction and they're funding all of the right of way um acquisition that's needed as well because Route 123 is State Highway layout um for the entire project limit uh North and South worest Street are largely Town layout except for there's a portion of North Worcester where mot actually controls uh up in this area um so it's about 700 feet on 123 and um a couple hundred feet down each side street um so we're currently in final design with mot in the town um likely going to Construction in uh the spring of 2026 I believe if all goes well um so just a little background I'm sure most folks are very familiar with this um intersection of historically High crash rates um poor alignment with the intersection a lot of confusion when cars are turning trying to find gaps um there's no way to accommodate bikes um sidewalks are kind of spotty um and there's a lot of traffic congestion on the side streets yeah it's it's our version of Las Vegas is that a good thing well I never really like Las Vegas okay um so this is just a a section view of what you know the roadway would look like if you're if you're at roadway level driving it so it's going to be largely um you know two lanes in each Direction with a turning lane for a portion um there'll be bike Lanes on either side with a buffer between the travel lanes and the bike lanes and and then the sidewalk outside of that we just tried to sketch on here about what the existing roadway width um is out there to compare that with the with the new cross-section um in plan view looking at the improvements um so you know I mentioned the widening here for the three Lane section uh most of the widening takes place in this area here because that's really the only space there is to widen with the building constraints um on the edge here you have Charli Pond over on this side um North Worcester Street will be realigned a bit to kind of come in at more of a 90 degree angle um this area here which is pavement today will be um planted or some other perious treatment um and then we have this is all new sidewalk along this side of of 123 there is some existing sidewalk as you get further along and then there's existing sidewalk here that will be Recon constructed um and reconstructed sidewalk along North Wester Street which will meet up to some recently reconstructed sidewalk that the town took on um further to the South this is just kind of a zoomed in view there will be a um traffic signal at both locations it will really function as one um one traffic light these will be coordinated um but obviously a much improved safety Improvement here um there'll be crosswalks to get pedestrians across the road here and across northwester street um I'll turn it over to um Elise now for anything she wants to point out or or kind of open it up to questions from um you know folks on specific to you know resource areas jurisdictional work and and at least we'll kind of take the lead on on answering those questions unless there's questions of what I just spoke to that I can address first so I will um I'll just provide just a a brief overview of what resource areas that we're dealing with here to provide some context and uh be happy to go into greater detail on anything so work as proposed for the project within bordering land subject to flooding the Riverfront area associated with Charlie Brook it's a 200 foot Riverfront area and buffer zone to bank and bordering vegetated Wetlands now along chartle Brook on the sorry along chartle Pond uh on the south side of Route 123 we do have mapped habitat for priority habitat of rare species and estimated habitat of rare Wildlife we did get a determination from the division on December 5th that the project as proposed will not result in a prohibit take of listed species and in general work within resource areas for the projects is associated with just the reconfiguration of the roadway as well as reconstruction and construction of sidewalks as Matt kind of got went over already and as part of the project we are proposing compensatory flood storage to the extent practicable as well as restoration of some previously degraded Riverfront area and of course we'll be using erosion and sediment controls throughout the project uh so so with that I'd be happy to expand on any portions of the work in resource areas uh yeah I mean I can't see at this scale where you may have cementation controls placed um so we have um sediment barrier located uh that is this um kind of Blue Line type here SL symbol um anywhere we have a bottom of slope um work from the roadway and that delimits your your limit of work um yes well there's a clearing limit outside of that um so the the sediment barrier is placed between the tree clearing limit and the limit of grading so I'll just beyond the limit of grading yeah in generally the the tree line itself is is offset a little bit um just to show that the erosion controls are there and that the line work is not right on top of each other um but wherever there's going to be any clearing there will be erosion controls uh downgradient of any clearing or any work like that uh when we're dealing with any sort of wetlands Pond uh streams Etc so generally speaking a lot of the erosion controls were in to see on the southern side of the roadways is that's where we see most of the the wetlands Etc and I I don't I can't see the uh the uh River uh inner and outer riparian zones are they are they there somewhere they are uh they are a little funky on this one as the uh the stream itself the river itself uh is is not a typical uh L it goes in almost a 90° angle so uh it's going to be there's a a light pink line that's at the north side of the roadway that's kind of the farthest buffer line and that's going to be the 200 foot Riverfront area so it it actually ends up uh going towards the intersection and then cutting right down at a 90 degree angle so it's a it's a little funky um so we really only see that the Eastern side of the project is going to be generally speaking within Riverfront area and within bordering land subject to flooding so we see most of the of the resource area impact to the East and to the South but there there's basically minimal change from existing conditions with regard to to that as I understand it is that a fair statement yeah a lot of the work as far as resource areas go it's it's within existing degraded or or uh some other form of existing developed the widening of the roadways is really put as far as possible from any of the resource areas so I know specific to Riverfront area for example work is not going to be any closer than the existing development uh we're all set for questions yes you have any any further uh information okay so so John do you have any comments uh with regard to so we're going to have this peer reviewed for just to look at it for storm water purposes um I've talked to the town manager about it still trying to get a sens as to kind of um the peer riew because from what I gather um you know the the Project's going to meet the um the stormw water handbook requirements at the state level to the extent most practical um but it's not going to meet any of our local bylaw so that's something that we have to discuss internally um because I don't think it's going to be able to meet the local bylaw criteria uh and then secondly um you know there's a lot there's a lot of components with this site and there's a lot of components with from an environmental standpoint um it's a limited project they've got Redevelopment criteria they've got land subject to flooding um you know calculations and things of that nature um it's quite a bit and um you know obviously you I want to make sure that it's right I just don't know if there's there's a lot going on with this project I mean I can definitely you know give the commission my two cents but um it being a town project I just don't know if we want outside Source help for this one to look at it I make sure that it meets all the criteria um you know I just I want to be you know opine from kind of any sort of the because it's a town related project and I work for the town so um I guess from my standpoint I just want to make sure that it meets all the standards of the Wetland protection act and all eight standards um and I I don't know I just looking for more information from the applicant to kind of give us a little bit more insight specific to oh apologies yeah please please let me know if there's anything else we could provide um you know in the meantime or that that would be helpful as far as digesting the project I know there's a lot going on um well for one I guess if I'm looking at this and you're saying that there's compensatory flood storage Y where is it um you know I guess that's my question yeah yep yep the compensatory flood storage uh it's in two spots so we're going to see it um on West Main Street just on the North side there so we have a little bit proposed there and then on the other side of the driveway there's going to be another uh area of compensatory flood storage it was extremely challenging to provide anything further considering existing right of way constraints existing development and having a sufficient area where we could establish the grades and have it Be an Effective uh compensatory flood storage area and trying to keep it on public property not creating that on private property right because if you did that you'd have to submit a permit for those private property owners and that can give be challenging um so the the area where you're proposing the compensatory fledge storage is that dotted line or dotted hash yes Y is there any way we can make that a different color in the next plan set because if I'm a contractor and I'm looking at that red on red doesn't really work for me S yeah all right um f further questions John no I I I don't have much I mean obviously I think a lot of this is going to be contingent upon storm water um making sure that everything jives um you know there's just going to make sure the comp compensatory flood storage CS I haven't looked at them in detail I have to take a look and see if they look good um and then uh just making sure that it meets all the Redevelopment criteria because it that that's difficult to do so I just want to make sure that that's that's correct but I mean we've got some time I think uh you know this doesn't even have a d number yet so um D might have comments too I don't know is is there um treatment of the the uh storm water uh anywhere included in this maybe you could just quickly review what what has been included at this point really the only Improvement we have is um the you know replacement of the existing uh catch basins out there with deep sum cat and units other improvements were definitely um looked at for a possibility but again with the right of way constraints creating anything that would be effective uh to do more than what's currently been being provided would be again a challenge considering the site so where where does the U the runoff go with with the the um the catch basing system that's out there now does it does it go directly in into Charlie or um in other locations or so there's there's one Outlet uh so this is um this is the salon School driveway here so just to the east of that uh one of the discharge points for the project is that an existing head wall here on the south side of the roadway um and then the other discharge points is just to the west of south wester Street um there's an existing Outlet right in here and and so that goes directly into Charlie correct and there's no way even that can be made you know some kind of a I don't know it's uh I mean it's just so much that uh is going to run off that road and and John I guess that might be one function of peer review it admitted that this is you know probably a paved cow path at one time uh and but is there any way we can improve upon the the the storm water with the existing constraints so that might be the you know one of the only benefits of of peerreview I mean if we can I I you know I'm not I'm not saying there's any magic here yeah I mean from my standpoint you have basically have to deal with what you have right here what you're working with um you know and this is a very difficult challenging area to be proposing you know this magnitude of improvements um but I will say it's it's definitely needed you know from from what I see yeah I I mean you have you have a wetland line adjacent um adjacent Charlie Pond and then you have a little area although it is it's actually in it looks like it's in the inner raran Zone which appears to be Upland uh I mean could you have some kind of a uh a treatment structure the where it was you say I don't even see the the elevations there so I don't even know if it's if it's possible this is pretty steep slope coming down um from the roadway that's one reason why we don't have sidewalk along this Edge we had to get a waiver for that from mot because if we built sidewalk along this Edge um you know our limit of work would have expanded out we would have ended up needing a retaining wall to avoid impacts to the Wetland boundary here and over here so basically you're saying that's a steep slope and not even not even something that could be considered right I I have a question here with the lengthening of the corner on North Worcester there moving that over and the width of that road where is the snow going to go by you know it just seems like we're increasing a huge amount of winter snow in this area because it's not going to be pushed down the road there been any thought for what's going to happen there this is almost like what happens in the center of town um so yeah I'm not I'd have to defer to Mast out on their maintenance of this how they do it today and how they would attack in the future I don't have the answer to that that that this is their um they they have jurisdiction over this section of West Main an Old Colony it's definitely something we can look into though and see what we can find out for the commission I mean you do have that uh area of pavement that is going to be converted to perious surface so yeah right in here yeah where specifically is the concern for the the snow storage again I'm sorry I wasn't following that location well I mean normally it was being pushed across the road and continuing on but now then when we're coming around a corner here we have all this section of pavement here that you're increasing where is that snow going you're talking about around this corner correct yeah well the width so the the the width of northwester Street the actual roadway width um it doesn't change drastically we're just moving the roadway over here um to make this a safer movement um as opposed to the you know today this is kind of skewed so this is a larger radius um but now we've added WID to the main road and we've offset it further right yeah but but the reality is if we get significant snow the roads get narrower but now I mean just there's a lot going on here on this corner when we if you're going to talk about naring the road now well I mean the snow is is just pushed to the side but the actual Drive area is less in in a significant snowstorm until you know they come and they they with the big plows and correct but it has to go somewhere it has to be pushed somewhere and obviously it can't be piled in these areas because it's going to be a visibility thing so this is my concern yeah all right um so anyone in the meeting have any questions or comments about this project so it it sounds like we have um additional information and and the the whole issue of uh whether or not we're going to be able to do a uh peer review uh assessment of this project so we need to continue our next meeting is uh January 13th I assume you're amenable to to that yes um so unless there's further questions or discussions or or John is there any specific information you want to talk about now or do we can go ahead and continue I mean the other topic of discussion to talk about is chle Pond and whether there's a perennial stream that's associated with it like we we said similarly with Meadowbrook a few years ago yeah um but I I had assumed that the inner and outer riparian zones were centered on uh the dam for example and they out yes but the question is does that man-made restriction debunk the stream status that's the question well you'll have to explain the word debunk to me in this context so I guess I guess my question is is that the way that establish it or the way the way that the Wetland protections worded is that if there's a man-made restriction or obstruction that is there creating a pond from what I gather it doesn't um alleviate the status of a perennial stream so because if we remove that structure the stream now is there so I guess that's my question yeah but but I thought the inner and outer repan zones established that were based on on that structure and and the Pres exist so if we look if we look at this plan I guess my question is they cut it off at the the dam there's there is a plan view that it goes further down and uh so if you don't mind going to the next uh screen match all right so if we look over at the left side here that that's where the dam is if that helps I sorry on the right side apologies on the right side I was pointing on my scen but that doesn't help you guys um so that's going to be the side that has the actual Dam the dam the Dam's on both sides of the road and I'm talking about chly Pond yeah having a perennial stream interior of it okay so I would I would take a look at that sure and I would take a look to see because when I first came on board with with uh with Norton uh that was one of the projects that I was first given um to look at so I would just make sure that that criteria is uh correct and it's in alignment with the Wetland protection act sure it I mean as I understand it maybe somebody can correct me if I'm I'm not correct but as I understand it this region was was uh a huge swamp a bog uh um and it was excavated to refine bog iron there there was a a uh uh basically a uh a huge excavation to to do to uh Forge iron here is that your understanding of the history of this mine yeah yes I mean I'm just I'm just basically trying to be consistent with what the commission has looked at for these pawns moving forward and and I just want to make sure that the designation of the Interior perennial stream is looked at and thoroughly evaluated to make sure that whether whether it because I just remember from the last project we had it was a topic of discussion right but in in the case of meta Brook historically there was actually a stream there um and then they with the dam in and the steam the stream under the pond got submerged here there was there was no as I understand it was just a a swamp and uh it was excavated so it's it's not really clear at any time there was an established stream and that it was damned up as um uh as a retaining retained Pond for a mill so it just makes it difficult so I I think just arbitrarily CH choosing that the the stream is related to the dam outflow and throwing the inner and outer ruian zones is is kind of the best we can do in this circumstance we can certainly um you know do do some research as well and and see if we can find a little bit more information to support one way or another if that would be helpful for the commission just to make sure that everything's identified correctly I mean John I don't think it can change the overview with the project because no it's it's still going to be a limited project it's still going to be they're way over the riverfront um calculations because there's no way they can possibly get under it um but you know I just want to make sure you know I I it's never been done before I've never worked on a project in the area before so I just want to make sure that whatever kind of determinations we're making from this project moving forward they're the correct ones um because this is the driver and focus of of just making sure that we're consistent and accurate with our review um but yeah I mean there is historic uh information from the 1800s that is on USGS so you can take a look and see some of the historic maps and see kind of what the status was back then and if it was a pond back then then it's a pond yeah we don't yeah we don't have the DAT is to when that dam was installed but there there may have been other dams before that so it's it's hard to all right well unless there is further discussion I mean you guys got the tenor that we we're trying to be academic correct so maybe a little bit more information about the history of chartle uh might help be certain that we're we're doing everything correctly sure and uh then we can consider a motion to continue until January 13th moves second we have a motion by Mark seconded by Joe and I'm taking the thumbs up from Dan as a vote Yes and Joe and Mark how you vote Yes I and I'll throw it an I so motion carries so we'll see you guys on the 13th great thank you everybody you at thank you uh next item on the agenda is request for certificate of compliance one Gilbert's way uh 250- 1106 and I think that was yes that was a a porch and uh moving the existing pool yes and I was out there uh last week I met James Fleming and looked at everything everything looks good the site stabilized all the work is done and James is very happy that it's done as well and so is his family so I told him that he did not need to attend the meeting tonight and that the commission would most likely issue a certificate of compliance for the work that he's completed and your review of that was that um site inspected and you're comfortable with the c full CLC being issued correct looking for a motion the moved second so we have motion by Mark seconded by Joe and we're looking for a thumb up or down from Dan that was a yes and Mark and Joe I I and I'll throw in an eye motion carries and uh so the only thing outstanding was the anrad which you said was a simple um I can't remember the flag numbers but um like 12 to 26 or something on that order 13 to 26 13- 26 Bo those numbers um and um as establishing the Wetland line associated with the associated plan so any other questions on that oad determination if not we can consider a motion to issue the OED with the specific information we just talked about we moved second motion made by Mark second by Joe uh so between Joe Mark and Dan how you WR hi hi are you Dan you are frozen I tell you Electronics there you go we got a thumbs up and I'll throw in an eye so that I think concludes um so Dan um American sign language well I mean it could be an educational experience we all learned it uh anything else we need to talk about no but I just looked online um in retrospect there's an 1885 USGS map shows chly being a pond so no need to worry about that okay all right so um this will be our last meeting until the end of the year um we won't be seeing each other for another month looks like so if anyone has anything that they want to discuss or reach out uh feel free to do so to the office and um did everyone go into the office and sign that's that's that was the pH have been out so yeah I haven't okay so we that that's the one order of business we need to deal with this week is an arrangement with Megan for coordinating with the notary um so hopefully the phone system will be fixed tomorrow and we can begin making our respective appointments to go just so everybody's aware Megan will be um becoming a notary so she will this we won't have this issue anymore yeah we still have to be there and sign in front of her yeah which is fine but you won't have to worry about this kind of double signing thing anymore okay I'll be by tomorrow as soon as the RMV is done with me which uh oh get a new license I have to get my real ID yeah oh Nock that got pushed off yeah I kept getting lucky I kept pushed off pushed off but I'm flying out somewhere next early next year so I want to make sure I'm up to date good luck you going to the one over in North adle bro or I got an appointment at so is this for your real ID I mean or yeah yeah it's uh I pushed it off as long as I could why it was kind of fun you and I have different ideas of fun I guess why you get to sit and read for a while that's true all right all right well until next time everybody okay have a good holiday everyone happy holidays thank you Peter