All right. This is uh the opening of Norton Conservation Commission meeting for Monday, April 13th, 2026. It is now 6:32. um and participating in our meeting
tonight. Commission members include myself, Julian Kadesh, chair, uh vice chair Lisa Rosa, clerk Dan Pearson, uh as well as Mark Fernandez, and Courtney Miller, Joe,
>> and I guess we have a full house. Uh Joe Carvalo is here as well. Uh and then we have uh John Thomas, our director here. First item on the agenda is minutes
of um Monday, March 23rd. A fairly voluminous set of minutes. Uh we had um Oh, wait a second. I may have a wrong minute.
>> No, that's right. The 23rd. March 23rd. Yep. March 23rd. >> Oh, I abained. Okay, that's right. Uh, I abstained the last night because I wasn't on the prior meeting. Um, but I was we had a full house on the 23rd. Um,
and we have one now. Any comments about uh those minutes? I didn't see anything when I went through. I don't know if anybody else anything. >> They looked mostly okay.
>> Mostly. Yeah. >> Oh, well I I mean it's such a minor point. There's um a sentence where it said uh I think it in 1051 uh it said um
John uh wanted to make sure that it complied with the uh storm water something or other and uh we want to see if the commission is comfortable. But we might have said whether the
commission agrees or if the commission is comfortable with the blah blah blah blah blah. >> You mean 1091, Dan? >> Oh, maybe it's 1091. >> The the Norton High School project.
>> Uh, I believe so. Wait a minute. I'll have to pull this up now. Let's see. on page six. >> On page six, which leads to seven. Oh, just my MS word is just um
starting here cross. I I mean it's it's just a it's just it's a minor point. I mean everybody knows what um what it says. >> All right. >> So leave leave uh
well not alone and we're looking for a a motion. >> Uh so moved. >> Seconded. >> Uh we have a motion by Dan. Second by Courtney. Uh low call vote. Uh we can
begin with Mark, Joe, and Courtney. >> I I >> I >> and um Lisa and Ben >> I. >> And I'll throw in an I. The motion
carries. Next up is um violations um 181 West Maine. I think we had um uh a representative was going to be here again and Sophie, is that you?
>> Yes. Hi. >> Okay, I'll get started with an update. So, hi, my name is Sophie. I'm a wetland scientist with Consulting. I'm representing the property owner Hikish Patel. Uh so since the previous hearing, the commission requested a revised uh
mitigation plan uh to propose so we can get those plantings in this spring growing season. Uh so I'll go ahead and share my screen if that's okay with the chair. >> She's also you should be able to >> All right.
All right. Are you able to see my screen? Hasn't gone through it quite yet, but let's >> quite yet. >> Try that again. >> Usually takes about 30 seconds. >> Are you able to see now? >> We do. >> Yes.
>> Okay, perfect. Let me just go. Okay. So, since the first mitigation plan that we presented, we have made a few minor modifications. Um, but the mitigation overall is still 2:1. Uh,
it's about 14,364 square ft in total. Uh, we did have pro tests conducted on April 6th, which uh gave us a better idea of where the septic and the leeching field um could potentially go. So, we've left the room for that um just in planning purposes.
Um but as I mentioned the mitigation is still two to one. So the entire area will be seated with New England conservation seed mix. Then we have about 35 trees proposed in there. So flowering dogwood, red oak,
American hopcorn bean and shrimp maple as well as 110 shrubs which include service berry, witch basil, black holeberry, Carolina rose and low bush blueberry. Uh we also have included in our mitigation write up that we are looking to remove some debris that was
found in the riverfront area and along the wetland boundary. So that's part of the mitigation as well. So I'd be happy to answer any questions from the commissioner and at this point >> I have a quick one. >> Yep. >> Have you guys secured the trees or the
bids on any of the trees for this site? We noticed in the past a lot of these plants when they get indicated they're not available. >> Absolutely. So we have included a note in the U mitigation write up that if plants are not available we'll uh go through the commission and find a very
similar substitute that still accomplishes the same wildlife benefits. Sophia, I wonder if it wouldn't be worthwhile to maybe get to get a secondary list together now. Um, just
because it might save you some time and effort on the back end to have that and have have us, you know, lay eyes on it beforehand. >> Yep, absolutely. So, we just we kind of wanted to bring the updated mitigation plan to the commission and kind of get that approval before moving forward and
working with the landscaper to get the the plantings ordered. So, the one comment I have is you you have all this dialogue, if you will, in the narrative that the contractor has to follow. >> I'm going to ask you to put that on the plans. So, the contractor is going to be
bidding on the plans, not narrative. So it should be in detail in or note format. Um if you had the seed spec uh the planting details everything that's basically going to uh lead a contractor to bid on this project
>> along with the notes. >> Understandable. I can add those plants or those notes in the corner and submit that uh to the commission prior to planting. >> And and what is the schedule for planting? Oh, can you actually point out where the test pits were for the septic
and where the septic uh is supposed to go or intended to go? >> So, we we're currently just in design phases right now. So, we have determined the leeching field will go um primarily under the parking lot, but we're still in the design phase. We don't have final plans yet uh to show, but that's why we
had spaced out the mitigation plantings to give enough room that there's no disturbance. and I've worked closely with the engineer to ensure that any potential disturbance off from that area will not be in the mitigation plantings. >> Okay. So there's no longer a conflict
with the potential septic system which means you can start preparing the site for mitigation time then. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So that that was that was the whole motive of this um separating out the mitigation from septic. So you've
we've planned it so um there's no disturbance between both of those projects. >> Okay. So does that mean before the next meeting you will um I don't know if the um applicant has somebody in mind to perform the work or they going to put it
out to bid get some bids or >> Yep. Well we'll um after this hearing I'll be in touch with the applicant. will organize and try to get an update for the commission at the next hearing on the progress of getting the mitigation plans installed. >> Okay, thank you.
>> No problem. >> I have one more. >> Yeah. >> Um could we include with the dumpster on this site? Um on paper >> just the location of dump dumping >> correct where it's going to be
permanently. >> For the years it's been moved around in the back. Thank you. >> All right. Uh there no further comments. >> Does the commission want to give a time that they basically have no budge
basically for having all these plantings in? Do you want to give them a deadline? >> July 1st. basically to have all the plantings in. >> Yeah, I would say. >> Okay.
>> When is our when is our meeting in July? Is it? >> Well, it's it's usually the second and fourth Mondays, but uh >> Well, I'm just wondering cuz that's a holiday weekend, so I don't know if
>> before July 1st. I think that gives them plenty of time, right? >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, the first meeting is the 13th of July. >> Yeah. I I I'm a little bit hesitant. Uh
I mean if in in 2 weeks we start having 100 degree weather or you know the window for for planting may may have passed. So maybe maybe we can revisit it that at
our next meeting simply because last year it became unbearably hot and it would have just killed any plants that were transplanted. But >> I can tell you I plant right through July and August. >> All right.
>> I don't stop planting. >> Just adequate watering. >> Just adequate water. >> Yeah. >> My last plan date is August 31st. And I plant every week. >> All right. uh
>> you might just want to point out to the applicants or the the owner that it's you know in their best interest to do it sooner rather than later. Um so they don't have to water and monitor it and this die off then they have to replace it. So uh I would say you know encourage
them to do it sooner rather than later. Yes, that's the goal and we have included that in our mitigation plan that we're aiming for before May 31st, but obviously dependent on weather and timing of the plantings, but that's the suggestion to them, of course.
>> All right, unless there are further questions, I think we we're all set and um we can move on to our next item. >> Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Uh and the next item is also a violation
discussion 292 West Main Street. Um do we have anything new to talk about that? >> So the owner of that property has contracted with actually Rim Engineering and um Brad Holmes from ECR. So they're
going to be working on a mitigation plan or a survey plan which may show mitigation um for that. But obviously the survey needs to be done first before they can actually show the medication. So um that should hopefully be somewhere in the midst of having a plan ready. I
don't know Craig, I don't know if you want to chime in on that. >> Sure. Yeah. Good evening. Uh so he didn't really give us the go ahead until the end of last week. Uh he kind of let it sit for a little while. So we did hire Brad. Brad gave me probably about
two weeks out before he get out there and flag. We can get out there beforehand and start doing the location work of course. So we'll uh we'll start on that in the next two weeks. So I would think we'd have a plan in about hopefully 3 to 4 weeks.
>> All right, great. >> All right. Um, so I I don't think we have any uh continuences to vote on. Is that not the way?
>> Okay. So, uh, the next item is public inquiries or departmental updates. Um, and >> yeah, so I have two things. One thing is that we had the um Norton cleanup day this past Saturday. Um, I think we had
300 volunteers show up um to help us clean up the streets of uh Norton. I know I was going around as one of the trash pickup guys and I had probably about 45 bags of trash that I had in the back of my pickup truck. Um, and it seemed that that was the sim similar uh
similarities with uh others that were doing the same. So, um you know, it's good to see that we're picking up trash. It's kind of disappointing at the same time. Um, but at that to that regard, I'm glad that everybody who showed up showed up and I'm glad that everybody
who contributed uh was able to do good for this town. Um, secondly, May 18th is um one of the uh Norton High School uh initiatives where they're going to help us out with uh contributing for open space and uh preservation. So, I'm have
30 volunteers from the Norton High School that are going to be helping me uh clean up some of the trails that we have in town. Uh we're going to be going over to Johnson Acres because that's one of the properties that abust the rail trail and I'd like to kind of get that trail ready to go for when the rail trail opens. The town basically has
ownership of it because it's a nice offshoot from the uh the rail trail and I think that would definitely provide a lot more benefits for those that want to use both the rail trail and also the wood woodland trails. So we'll be doing that May 18th. Rain day is set for May
21st. Um, if anybody else from the commission wants to join us, feel free to contact me, but it's going to be from 8:30 a.m. on that Monday till about um noon noonish. So, but that's all. >> John, if
we So, we participated in cleanup day. I did mark some locations for stuff that we weren't able to move ourselves. Is that something that we would send to you? >> What's that? Say again. um some some trash, some what looked to be construction dumping potentially. Is
that something we >> would if you if you know where it is and it needs to be picked up, I can let DPW know. >> Okay, no problem. I'll send you an email. >> All right. Thank you. All right. Um so, additional peer reviews is that an
item you >> Yeah. So Lisa brought this up at one of our last meetings about, you know, kind of having like some checklists for storm water and engineering review. So I put kind of some some format together on in the Google Drive for the commission to kind of review and give some feedback
and comments on that kind of stuff to see what their thoughts are. But, you know, that's going to probably be a working document that we're going to be working on and looking at when we're going through a lot of this stuff with these reviews moving forward. Um, I'm also going to pass it along to some of the engineers. But if there's anything
else that you guys think we should add or or kind of put in there, um, you know, for kind of the review processes, you know, I'm more than open to taking into suggestions. Um, but it's just kind of a kind of a something that I put together to see kind of get some
feedback from you all to see kind of what where you stand. >> All right. So John is I guess I was under the impression the last few years that that the planning board peerreview was reading I
was reviewing the plans for a lot of these things. Is is that not true anymore? >> So just so just so the commission understands also the the planning board um director just gave his notice today. >> So uh I just want to let you all know
that. Um, so moving forward, I don't know what direction the planning board's going to have. >> So it it's probably in our best interest for us to kind of um be a little bit more, I guess, informative and a little bit more of the understanding. Um, I
don't know who the next um, planning board director is going to be. Um, but Paul was pretty good at knowing a lot of the stuff um, and seemed to know kind of what he needed to get. So, I'm interested to see how the transition works. Um, but I think that's kind of a
good guide for us to kind of hang our hat on. But if there's anything that you guys think that we should probably move forward and kind of ask for, uh, in addition, um, you know, obviously planning board regulations and things are not our
purview. Um, but we can kind of try to maybe have a meeting with the planning board and also the conservation commission to kind of set up kind of some some boundaries and some kind of standards we want to put in place. I think maybe that's our next step too. Uh, so that way the board is
understanding of kind of where we stand from a storm water perspective and also for land development perspective. Um, but those those are just some suggestions I have. I think it would be good by the way. >> Yeah. I mean for years we did not want
to have the applicant expend money with two peer reviews. We understood that right. We didn't want to have them pay a review under the planning board and in a review under the concom. So we tried to streamline that and hire one engineering company that would look at it comprehensively.
And it and I mean I could be wrong um but it seems like the ones that we've had peer reviewed are purely just storm water and nothing else. But I don't I don't know that for sure. And my thought was well maybe the planning board's consultant is reviewing the rest of
these things. I don't know. Um, but I guess it would maybe be helpful, you know, moving forward to know if it has been peer-reviewed by the planning board so that we know which which pieces of it we need to have
reviewed, right? We're not duplicating efforts. And if the engineering um uh consultant for the for the planning board is looking at grading and drainage in the wetlands uh in the buffer zone in our jurisdiction, that's great. But if they're not, I think it's something that
we need to add to our um peer review scope. >> Yeah. Majority of the time what I ask when I ask our our peer reviewer who who's looking at storm water, I ask them to also look at the provisions of the wetlands protection act and the storm water handbook and provide us, you know, how it meets the performance standards
and not just the the 10 standards for the for the um for that, but also our local bylaw and then also the provisions of the wild protection act. So I mean if you think that for instance we need to look at other potential engineers you know moving forward we can do that. It's
just that for instance what I've noticed is that the engineering reviews from larger firms that I've noticed take a little bit longer uh for them to get us a response. um the person that we've
been using uh um Pat Brennan from PBG Engineering, he kind of gets us something within a couple days versus the 2 to 3 weeks that we're normally that we used to get uh peer reviews from and that kind of delays the process. So, I mean, I can I can reach out and see if
there's anyone else that can get us the results within a couple days versus weeks. Well, I'm not so I mean um I appear before commissions night and day. Um it's not so much timing. The timing is at the whim of the peer reviewer. My big
concern is that projects are falling through the crack in this town. So is an engineering company looking at the grading, looking at the curve rating, looking at the you name everything from a civil engineering perspective, is that happening through the planning board process right now? Granted, that's not
that's not in our purview, but the grading is for instance. Um, so is any who's minding the store? Is an engineering company peerreing these sites to see if they make sense from an engineering perspective? Do they work?
Never mind just looking at the rag saying, "Oh, okay. It meets the rag. Does it make sense? Is it a sound design? Is it industry standard practice?" So if that's not happening on the on the planning board side, we need to capture it somehow on our end. And I
think we've kind of lost sight of that. >> Okay. So >> we did it for years when we had a peer reviewer. They looked at everything. Um again, and then we realized it was maybe duplicative with the planning board. We want a streamlined process. So I don't if you could revisit that John
to see um >> so do you want >> if indeed to what extent >> do you want >> board has peer reviews done >> right so do you want me to put together a like RFP search for other peer reviewers and see >> kind of what they would or examples of
how they would give peer reviews and maybe then go with that route because that's the challenge that I have is I don't know what results we're going to get from a peer reviewer unless I give them basically very thorough outline of what they have to look at, right? And >> yeah, it's pretty standard. It's pretty
standard. In fact, I think NACC may have templates. But my first immediate question is, again, I don't want to duplicate efforts. What is the planning board process for peer reviews? I think we need to be informed of that before we go ahead and, you know, make up this whole other checklist or whatever. So, I
guess I need to be informed on that end before I can hold mine. >> Yeah. And I would probably say that I don't know what's in their 1970s bylaws and regulations. So what I will say is that um I don't even know if reviews
were something back then. So um you know that's a good question. Obviously, I think what I usually tell them is is what I tell the the planner is I need if it's going to go in front of planning for a peer review, I say to them, I need
something that's going to conform with our local storm water bylaw, the wetlands protection act, and the storm water management handbook. All three of those things. And I put it in an email and I basically send it out and say, "This is what I need." And what I get back is a review. and the peer reviewer
basically gives responses on what they have or have not met in conformance with things that he's identified as being an issue. He doesn't go in through like the whole whole kind of um I guess verbatim of every little piece of thing which
goes detail by detail by detail by detail by detail because that would probably be um very exhausting I guess is kind of what I'm looking at. So, if that's something that we want, like for instance, I'm just going to throw a name out, like John Chessia used to do. Um,
you know, we could definitely look into that, but it's going to cost the applicant a lot of time back and forth. And and that's just that's the question that I have to ask the commission. Is that something that we want to start doing is just, you know, for stuff that
might not be related to a lot of these things? cuz that was one of the issues that John Chessia had was that he would call out things that would not be in line with the standards and the practices that were being administered. He was pulling stuff out from that, I
guess, more opinionated things that weren't relevant. And that's why I stopped contacting him because I want things to be in line with what the standards are, what the policies are. I want everything to fall in line with that. So, I mean, if there are some firms that the commission would like me
to reach out to, you know, I'd be happy to reach out to them, you know, and and contact them about seeing if their their services could be, I guess, you know, used for these for these future reviews and we'll we'll basically pick out of the hat who who we want to use on
certain projects. >> So, the timing doesn't worry me at all, John. I don't give it a second thought because I go through commissions with peer reviews all the time. And some takes sometimes it takes weeks, sometimes it takes months. It's called the cost of doing business. It's called the cost of getting an independent
review for on behalf of the town to make sure that the town and or homeowners aren't stuck with something that doesn't work. Um, you know, one of the examples that comes to mind was on, you know, Zero Pine Street, um, that I had to catch the fact that the the grading
didn't work. So, who's minding the store? Good stuff like that. And then I think Joe also pointed out on some recent project that a guardrail was missing. So who is minding the store for that? We should as volunteers should not
be responsible for you know reviewing engineering standards and for that kind of thing. So that's what I'm worried about is falling through the cracks in this temple. So we can I mean this is just the beginning of the discussion but I I
really think we need a full-blown peer review and again time doesn't matter if we want what's in the best interest of this town to get an independent review. Anyway, we can start the discussion. I will look at your checklist.
>> All right. Um any further comments? If not, we can move on to our first continued public hearing. That is 0 Pine Street file number 250-203. We states and um I think so Claire, do
we have more information to add or do we uh did we pretty much get everything we needed at the last meeting? We had just a few outstanding items from
the last meeting uh on March 23rd. If I could just share my screen for a moment to summarize the revisions that the engineer made >> should be all set now. Claire, >> great.
Um, let's find my screen there. Okay, so uh in front of you is the snow and ice removal section from the long-term uh operations and maintenance plan that's contained within the storm
water report. the engineer uh rewarded that since our conversation to be much more specific to the HOA. Uh pro uh prohibiting the use of chemical additives and prohibiting stockpiling of
snow within 100 ft of bordering vegetated wetlands or within 200 feet of the perennial stream or in storm water basins. Granted, none of the work is even occurring within 200 ft of the Rumford River, but um that was just
added to be explicitly clear that snow storage should not extend uh within the 200t riverfront area. Uh and then just moving to the plans, uh we also updated the cover sheet to include a note uh
about the LI storm water measures that we discussed at the last meeting. Um, since it's not really feasible for the project as a whole at this point, we incorporated the comment that we were discussing at the last meeting for each individual lot, all 21 of them, um, to
incorporate some form of LIID storm water uh, features. And we chose to offer a few options um, just in that each house lot might be different. you
know, they might have different soil conditions or water table conditions that might not work well for the roof infiltration systems or the rain gardens or the mulched vegetative depression. So, we wanted to offer some options. Um,
so when the commission sees the um 10 lots come back for notices of intent and then when the applicant's going for any of the lots outside of buffer zones that don't require individual NOIs to the building department, they'll have plans incorporating LI measures if the the lot
can support it. Um, and we're open to that being incorporated as a special condition in the order of conditions as well. So it's not only on the plan but also uh reiterated in the order of conditions. Uh the final plan revision.
I'm just scrolling down to sheet E1 here. Um again just to reiterate the snow storage notes from the uh long-term operation plan um and sort of summarize it more clearly. Uh so those are really
the the only edits uh or revisions to the plan are those two locations. Uh we provided that to John Thomas to review before finalizing and submitting to the uh conservation commission's portal. The planning board also has this set of
plans and I believe they voted to approve the uh their review of this project at their most recent meeting. I don't believe it was last week. it may have been the prior week. Um, so this is sort of the latest and greatest plan set. And
uh, oh, one last thing. It wasn't necessarily a part of our update uh, or revised information, but I recalled that I believe it was our first or second meeting that the commission uh, suggested that they would like to have a special condition for the potential
vernal pool to be studied and certified with natural heritage if it is certifiable. considering we're in the perfect time of season for that. Uh I was out at the site last week to do a vernal pool study, gathered enough information to uh submit to Heritage Hub
to certify it. So uh with that being a special condition in the order of commissions, we'll certainly provide the Heritage Hub documents for the commission's uh files. And that's all I have. >> Uh any I have one. >> Yeah, go ahead.
>> Quick question. Uh, could you pull up the guardrails for this real quick? >> Do you want uh plan view or cross-section view? >> Uh, I probably want to see both. >> Okay. So, let's see.
So, here's our cross-section view of the wetland crossing. I'll just zoom in a little bit. So, we have the timber post guard rail on each side of the crossing. Is there any engineering to go with this? >> I'm sorry.
>> There any other engineering? Do these meet the MASH standards? >> Uh they they should. And again, this was all uh peer reviewed as well under the planning board in accordance with the planning board's uh regulations, state
regulations, and the uh D storm water management standards as well. So I presume that incorporated the engineers review of the timber guard rails. >> So So it leads us back to the question to what degree was this project peer
reviewed by the planning board. What would it sounds like player was reviewed by an outside consultant, independent consultant? >> Yes, that's right. And we've submitted uh the responses from Zenith to the consultant's comments to the commission's portal. Um,
John Thomas, can you help me out? You said his name just a bit ago. Uh, Brennan. >> Pat Brennan. Yes. >> Pat Brennan. >> He didn't. >> Right. He was just looking at storm water, right? Not grading and uh u guard rails.
>> I could not answer the guard rail question, but certainly he was looking at grading in support of the storm water review. >> I I have a question for you, Clar. So if we condition that these meet the match standards and our order of conditions, would this be a problem? >> No.
>> Thank you. >> Uh further questions or comments from the commission? And if not, uh anyone in the meeting have a question on this project? Uh which includes participants here in the comment room. Uh, and you can either uh
we have a hand up uh the computer labeled Andrew and Debbie D. >> Um, you want to ask your question? >> Yeah. Can you stop? >> No, you can't. >> I don't know. Sorry.
>> Still there. If you're trying to ask a question, you make sure you're not muted. >> Am I coming through now? us. >> Thank you. Yeah, it's Andrew and Debbie D over at 87 Pine Street. We did have a question uh about the hooking up into
the the sewers, the existing sewers across the street from this project. I'm curious how that is going to happen and where that goes through and how they get it from what appears to be lower to
higher and and then why can't I hook up to the sewers? >> Um is that a question you want to field there? >> Uh certainly yes. Uh, so that is a great question. Since there are no existing sewer lines
within this portion of Pine Street, what the applicant is proposing is that the sewer line connection would come from the residential development to this eastern entrance off of Pine Street and then connect to the sewer line that is
installed at um the residential development down the street. uh they would need to install the sewer line within Pine Street and at this point they just haven't gotten through the town review processes and the design of
that to get that to a final stage. Um so that is the intention uh with this development but uh we would need to come to the commission again uh very likely for that work because there are buffer zones uh extending into Pine Street
there. Um, and to the question, I see your property here. So, it's just beyond this um the sewer line. Uh, so I believe it's really just terminating at this portion of Pine Street. >> Too bad. I know some people might be
interested in hooking up to that. Um, so what happens? Do you have to pump it up the hill? How do you guys How do you How do you do that to to get it across the street and up into these sewer lines which I think run
behind those projects near the rail trail. Yes. Uh I believe it's a looped system and it does connect up to I want to say it's Briggs Street that's on the opposite side of the rail trail um at
that other development. Uh as a wetland scientist and not an engineer, this is not my wheelhouse, but I believe a pump station of some sort could be incorporated into the system in order to uh work with any gravity issues for directing uh
>> sewer from one point to another. >> It's collected by gravity and then it's pumped through a force main. So it's it's a little bit of both. >> I like the thing. >> Thank you, Lisa. Will we um end up with a pumping station somewhere on our street to handle that or is that just
all going to be hidden? I don't know if anyone actually on the board has an answer to that. >> We don't have at least from the project team's perspective, we don't have a true answer to that yet because it hasn't been designed. Um but we'd certainly be attempting and trying to go with the
lowest impact uh work to get this portion of the project achieved. But again, it's the design of it isn't really incorporated into this project where it connects from one point to another within Pine Street. We will certainly have more of those answers when we're before the commission for
that. >> Okay. >> I will tell you this. I will tell you this one thing though as part of this project they won't be able to impact any more wetlands um with that because then it would trigger the need for the threshold requirements and obviously
that's something that we're going to keep an eye on as they move forward with the next phase of that project when they go in for the sewer and water. >> Um we're aware of that situation. So when it does come up, we'll make sure to advise them and keep them on track to
make sure that that pump station is in a location which is just buffer zone impacts at a minimum. >> Um but you know obviously that's for the future discussions and the future design methodology that the their team uh bring in front of us.
>> That's kind >> okay. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate your time. >> John, I have a quick one to that note. Um, that being said, uh, will this project as an order of conditions be held until that next permitting phase
has happened or will they get a start date prior to that? >> Well, that's up to that's up to you guys. Obviously, you can make that determination. Do you want them do you want to put a condition in that says for instance they cannot
they cannot uh make any sort of uh land disturbance or construction efforts until they submit a permit application for that sewer and water connection. Does is that something that you want to put in the order of conditions? I think
it would have to be have to be proved because this site is obviously not conducive to septic. >> So these projects will have what we call they don't have independent utility. What that means is one relies on the other. You can't build a subdivision
without the sewer. So I think I mentioned this a couple hearings ago is where is it going and what's going on? We kind of need to see it. So 100% they should not be starting construction on this until we can approve that sewer
line and water line. So for instance, I don't know if the pump station is going on this site and if it is, have you made provisions for it? Cuz right now looks really tight. So the last thing we're going to let you do if you come in and
play hardship that hey we can't fit this pump station anywhere cuz you know all the house lots are cut out. It's not going to cut. >> No. Understood. And I we're open to that special condition uh to file for the Pine Street connection before starting
work. >> Yeah. I think we would want to know if pump station's going on site. And if it is, it doesn't look like you've left any room to put it anywhere. >> Right. Yeah. And we'll certainly provide all the details. Uh, and I'm taking
notes of that to be specific if we do have a pump station involved to note even if it's on this site or if it's somewhere else that we incorporate that. >> Yeah. >> So, uh, yes, I would completely agree with you, Joe, that it needs to be tied to it because again, the subdivision
cannot be built without the sewer. >> But, but I I'm going to just comment. I'm assuming this is going to require bank financing and I would presume that the bank would not
extend financing without a guarantee of a complete package. Um I mean this the part this part of the project just covers the roads uh and the storm water system as I understand it.
Is that correct? >> Right. And the sewer is part of the infrastructure which is not shown right. >> The the sewer is shown within the property. Uh it's just shown as an approximate connection where my cursor
is here but within the >> uh the development itself it is included. >> Yeah, the interlinking section has not been uh find out yet. But >> okay, >> you wouldn't install the roads without the sewer being installed at the same
time, would you? >> I mean, you wouldn't want to dig up. >> No, you have to put the sewer in first. >> Agreed. >> Yeah. You would never >> Agreed. So, I mean, the whole before anybody breaks ground here, presumably all the
pieces would have to be in place. Uh, is that a fair state, >> Julian? We've seen in town before where that's not happened. We have foundations poured in town here where houses never shouldn't have been built and there's just foundations in the
woods. >> So there's no get together. >> Yeah. >> Hard issue. >> Well, the the difficulty is I mean >> this is not part of the Westlands Protection Act. I mean are we going to
extend to to covering all of these things? Certainly it is. It's going to be within the buffer zone. Clar just told us that it's going to be in Pine Street in our jurisdiction. So they're going to have to come in with a separate order uh notice of intent which D does not like to see two notices
of intent for one project um or they're going to have to amend this order. So it's certainly within our jurisdiction. They're not going to be able to amend. They're not going to be able to amend the order because for instance, Pine Street is not part of this project. The
land owner for Pine Street is not the applicant. So, it's the town. >> So, technically, the limit of work has changed. So, they're going to have to come in with a brand new application um for that work specifically because
it's going to be two the applicant's going to be the developer and the land owner is going to be the town. >> But Jill, it still has to be tied back to the 5,000, >> right? >> It's going to it's going to have to get tied. This is, you know, it's going to
have to get tied to the 5,000 threshold regardless. So that's why I said we just need to keep an eye on this one, make sure that they don't go over the 5,000, which they're very close to. So for instance, the where they're going to site any sort of potential pumping station or any grading or anything
associated any any access uh or preparations that they're doing, they can't alter weapons. It's just they they basically have locked themselves in and they just need to make sure they work with what they're given here. uh if they want to facilitate the construction of
this project, they they basically need to do it outside any sort of wetland impacts. Even HDD is I would say don't do it. >> So then maybe we just condition it that they file the notice of intent, right? >> I I think that's the I think that's the
acceptable route if you're going to if you're going to go with a special condition that that you know is requiring that. Yeah. To start the uh I'm sorry. File the notice of intent prior to um for the sewer prior to the start of construction on the site.
>> All right. >> Okay. >> Um so, uh Andrew and Debbie, you still have a new question. >> Yeah, I just have a quick question. This is Debbie. Um I we have a note here that
Lisa brought this up weeks ago and I just wonder how something this important comes off the agenda or is not on the agenda. >> No, it's been on the agenda. John John has it. I guess I was just articulating. >> So maybe it's not the agenda that's
published, right? We just keep We haven't heard it talked about for a little while. >> Yeah. Not every not every subject matter I guess is what's on the agenda is just the project and and John keeps meticulous notes on on what he has to
keep track of in order to go and you know to put in this order. So that's part of it. >> Okay. I just a couple weeks ago at the last meeting I really felt like John John you were talking about you know this is almost a done deal. We felt like when we walked out of there.
>> No seems like >> I didn't mean that it was a done deal. I said that they've made a lot of progress towards getting to a place where they can get this project in order for getting an actual order of conditions and that is the next phase is that as part of this project coming through the
commission my board issues an order of conditions which sometimes has special conditions. Now my understanding from the last meeting is that I guess things got a little um back and forth with the my members and also the engineers. So
obviously they had a lot of questions and things. So that all stirred up a lot of you know uh requirements from the um their team to kind of provide to my board for the shity that this this work meets all the standards and everything of that nature. Now obviously when
everything gets done is that this order gets drafted up which I draft and I provide to the commission and then they basically give me insight as to kind of what sort of conditions they're looking for on certain projects. This one we had a similar project that happened down on
uh Pine Street for a 44 lot subdivision. It's kind of the same kind of this one's a lot smaller. This one I think is 21 lots. But for instance, a lot of the information is, you know, it's kind of it's it's the same kind of uh footprint
for what they're looking to do. They're looking to construct the road, put in the infrastructure, and then put in the houses after they construct the road. That's what's going on over at um Germaine and um uh Lloyd Circle right now. That's what they're doing. They're
finalizing the construction over there. This will have similar kind of similarities moving forward. It's probably going to take them at least 2 3 years to get this all fully built out. But for instance, I think they're moving forward in a positive way where they could potentially get an order of conditions. And that's why I drafted up
an order of conditions for my board tonight cuz I think we're at a point where the board may have some finite things this evening later on after we have this meeting um to kind of give me insight as to what they would like in that order as we are basically whether
they want to close this tonight or not. It's up to them. >> Can you just tell me Thank you, John. Can you just tell me what close this tonight means? >> Close this. So close this tonight means that for instance they would they would be in a
position to uh move forward with this project and give them either a denial or an acceptance for this permit similar to what the planning board did at their most recent meeting. They they approved this project. But >> right >> but assuming we close this hearing and
later issue uh an order of conditions the the um issue that we've just been discussing is going to be in the order of conditions. So it's not like it goes away. It it's
>> Yeah. Go ahead. >> You just be closing this one agenda one. What would you be closing exactly? The >> the project they are putting forth which is construction of the roads um and the
the sewer system is part of in inside the project is is part of that. Um, but before they can go forward, they're going to have to address whether or not they actually will be able to
uh put the connection uh that they're proposing uh into >> that condition. I'm sorry. >> That would be a condition. Well, I think uh we were talking about that that the notice of intent has to be
filed for that prior to beginning construction. >> And so then do they just have to file it or does it have to be resolved? Sorry, I'm just >> If they're going to file a notice of intent, they have to have a lot of
progress uh toward that. >> I see. I see. Well, thank you very much for explaining that. >> Okay. Um, so unless there are further questions, I I think we've addressed all the the issues
that can be addressed at this time. Um, anyone else have any comments or questions either on Zoom or in the room? So if not we are now faced with close or continue. We have an order of conditions and I
think we can make sure those continuing uh questions are in them. So from my perspective and I'm assuming you agree it can be closed tonight. Yes. I mean it the discretion is always in
front of the commission. Obviously I d I only draft up orders when I think the commission is at a good place to you know discuss and deliberate on you know potentially closing out a project. So I have drafted up an order of conditions for the commission to review based on
some previous um orders that the commission has drafted in the past and has issued. So, a lot of the language might seem similar. Um, but there were a couple comm commission member comments for conditions that will need to be added. One coming from Lisa on the
notice of intent for the sewer connection in Ply Street and then one from Joe Carvalo asking uh that the roadway and the guard rail they make meet mass DOT standards. Right Joe? Is that correct? >> Yeah. And I have a couple of others. So
Lisa is going to have a couple others that we're going to discuss when we get back to that time. So, you know, you know, obviously it's not perfect, but we do our best and we try to make sure that we capture everything. And, you know, a lot of this information that we do um is from volunteers and and some
professionals that do this for for a living. So, you know, obviously, you know, this is what we are and this is what we do. So >> well I mean the real question is you know is the commission done asking questions? Claire has provided answers
to every question we've asked. So if there are no other outstanding questions they don't owe us any information. That's the point we can make the decision to close the public hearing and wrap it up. And I think we're there. We can condition everything that's outstanding right now. So I will make a
motion to close the public hearing file 250-1203. >> Second. >> So we have a motion by Lisa and second by Joe to close the public hearing for
file number 250-1203. Um roll call vote beginning with uh Lisa, Dan, and Mark. I
>> I and continuing with Joe and Courtney. >> I >> I >> and I'll throw in an I. So the motion carries. We will be deliberating over the order of conditions later in the
meeting. Uh, next item on the agenda is file number 250- uh 120489 North Washington Street, ANRAD. Um, and
I don't know if we have any further discussion on this or we just continued it because there were more than 21 days. So, we continued it because Ken Thompson was going out there to uh to do some surveys of the vernal
pools and I actually went out there to take a look at them too, the potential vernal pools and uh Frank, are you on the call? >> Yes. >> All right. So, Ken Thompson from Five Wetlands was out there and he did some surveys. Correct. >> Correct. Yes. And when I was out there,
all I all I found was was woodf frog egg masses um in the certified pool. And I found I didn't find more than five uh when I went out there and I basically took my you know my waiters and my you
know my dip net and I was trying to find all sorts of things and I didn't seem to find anything but Ken gave a final report right of his of his findings. Is that correct? He did and I submitted it to um the commission.
Um and he found there were well there were two two spots that he flagged out as potential vernal pools, >> right? >> Um and he used a series PVP 2 and PVP 3,
>> right? And these and these two potential vernal pools are located within an existing resource area, right? BVW. Yeah, they are. >> So, and the town of Norton doesn't have a local bylaw which would have a buffer zone associated with vernal pools. So,
for instance, the buffer for the vernal pools would be up to the resource area themselves and the resource area itself would have a 100t buffer zone. So my understanding is that even if they were going to be, you know, let's say the
buffer was going to be um I guess impacted under the state standards, they would be protected. Is that correct? >> Um yeah, they would be um they're they're both within the BVW. So if you
throw a, you know, a 100 ft buffer around the BVW, you'd actually exceed that same buffer around the vernal pools. So they don't stand alone someplace on the site. They're both within the BBW,
>> right? So they're they're within their own resource area. So for instance, my question to you is that you know there are other towns and other communities that you've worked in and a lot of these other communities have local bylaws which have buffer zones associated with them, right? >> Yes.
>> And those are independently managed and I guess administrated by the local bylaws. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. But we don't have that. Correct. >> Right. Okay. >> So Mhm. So John, there's one CVP.
>> Yes. >> Right. Is there is one certified? >> Yeah, that that's the one that's on town property. That's on Johnson Acres. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Does that have which which flag series is that? >> Um well, it is.
>> Is that the 42 through 45? >> Uh >> yes. Let me just see. That is that is that is VP4-2 VP 4-5. >> So I guess when it comes to it when we when we look at the issue in the OraD we should um identify the CBP number for
that in the OAD. >> I will add that to that. >> Okay. So the other two did not meet the criteria then John. >> That's correct. That's what I when I did my my analysis and two site visits out there, I didn't find anything that would
meet the criteria. >> Okay. So, we can discuss that when we get to the Okay. Okay. Thank you. >> All right. So, that was the only outstanding uh discussion then for this.
>> Yeah. Everything else, the flags, I didn't really want to change any of them. Um, I don't know what the land owner plans. Is it Michael Michael Peterson? He owns the property, right? >> Yes. >> I remember talk remember talking to him a couple years ago. Uh, he had an idea,
but obviously nothing came out of that. So, >> obviously the first step is to get the ANRAD. Right. >> Correct. And um and then we're going to I think we're going to sit with the planning board and um present a few
things to them on a on preliminary plans and then uh get some direction from them as to which way we should go. I mean, I'm tending toward an open space type development. And if we were to do
that, we'd, you know, I don't even know. Well, we would wind up having some work within the buffer zone to these wetlands, but we we'd put most of these wetland areas in an open space lot. So uh
>> I would be I would be open to that too just because for instance we own the adjacent property which is already preserved in open space. So that would just add a lot more >> open space uh preservation and continuity. So if that is something that
you can move forward and you know get feedback from the planning board, I would be open to having a discussion as well. >> Mhm. Yeah. And I I think we'll probably be back to you within a few months. >> Okay. >> On some kind of a you know definitive
plan, >> right? Well, that's besides the point. So I guess this is just for the NRA. So >> yeah. >> Yeah. So for the purposes of this presentation, we we have everything
dealt with. Um and so we can go ahead and and close. But before I do that, any questions from uh anyone in the meeting about this uh ANRAD, which is basically an evaluation of the wetlands and their
associated buffers on the site or adjacent to the site. So if uh no one has their hand up on the Zoom meeting and no one here uh is interested in a question, so we can
potentially consider a motion to close. >> I'll make that motion close public hearing file 250-1204. >> Second. So, we have a motion by Lisa, seconded by Joe uh to close the public hearing for file 250-204.
And starting with Mark, Joe, and Courtney, how do you vote? >> I I Sorry, I'm freezing up. I >> I >> All right. And then uh Lisa and Dan
I >> throw in nice. The motion carries. >> Thank you, Frank. Thank you, Frank. >> Okay. Thank you all very much. >> Thank you. >> Our last uh continued public hearing is file number 250-205127 is Hoden Street. And Craig, I I think um
I think we might have gotten everything we needed. It might be uh if you can share a plan that may be helpful because we do have an old um an old
uh permit or order condition. >> You're all set, Craig, if you want to show that plan. >> Okay. could be up. So the last this is a 127 East Side Street single family house with grading down to
a septic system in the back retaining wall along the outside the 25 ft buffer zone over here and a private well. And then we had this driveway and recently brought up that um because of the slope of the driveway that we should have a um
swell along the side. So we are showing a infiltration uh trench here. Uh pretty detail on the plan the bottom. I can blow this up
run along the edge of the driveway sloping from the uh east to the west. So, it comes off uh into this 3T deep, 2T wide crush stone swell uh trench, I should say, uh with
3/4 in, 1 and 1/2 in clean wash stone, filter fabric over the top of the sides, and then just a detail of how to check it over time, leave the uh to remove the silt as it builds up.
So that would go along the west side of the driveway with a small because it is coming down steep no matter what we do here. Small pooling area for it to uh settle into. Uh just a 5ft diameter area.
Believe that was the only comment that was made. All right, questions from members of the commission. And if not, we can open it up to the whole meeting. >> And I got I got one thing.
>> Uh yeah, please identify yourself. >> Craig, it's Chris Pulk. I own the property. Ah, I was saying. Okay. >> Um, hey, did you change the front grading on that driveway on that plan? >> As I mentioned in the email when you did our design, sorry to reshare. You had
mentioned that there was a drop from the top of concrete of the foundation for the house to the uh to the garage. So, top of concrete's at 102 as we had to get over groundwater and the garage floor is at 100.5. So, we
are down a foot and a half lower than the main house. >> Oh, yeah. So, you did change the grading. I just I just wanted to make sure. I just can't see it from as far back in the room as I am. >> Okay. >> All right. So, you're all set for that? >> Yeah. Yeah, we're good.
>> Yeah. >> So, if there are no further questions, I think we're all set for a motion to close. Motion to close the public hearing 502-1205. >> Seconded. >> Uh so you have a motion uh by Lisa,
seconded by Courtney to close the public hearing. And again we'll go with Mark, Joe, and Courtney. How do you vote? I >> I >> I >> and Lisa and Dan
>> I >> I >> Okay, and I'll throw it. The motion carries. Thank you, Craig. >> Thank you. And that completes our public hearings. And we're now going to
move on to um our well, we have certificates for compliance and then later orders of conditions. And we just did 127 East Hajes Street for the new hearing. We
have an old permit um file number 215- uh 1113 um and that work was never done. So >> correct. So you would basically vote to close or vote to issue a permit
stating that no work has proceeded on this project and that no work has been done. >> So I can't remember that. >> I'll make a motion. to issue certificated compliance for file 250-1 mark three as the work uh has
not remained to date. >> Uh so we have a motion by Lisa and seconded by Dan. Um and again Mark Joe and Courtney had vote >> I I >> and uh Lisa and Dan
>> I >> All right. So that closes file 250-113. And now we have um I guess a discussion about the rail trail. >> Yeah. Well, we actually received all the
closeout deliverables today. Um well, the final piece that I was missing I received today. >> All right. And um does that mean you're comfortable issuing a complete
certificate of class? Okay. No. So for instance, for this one, obviously the wetland mitigation is going to take a little bit more time. They haven't met their 2-year window. So, you know, it's up to the commission on how they want to proceed. Um you know, whether they be
willing, it's up it's basically up to you guys. um whether you'd be willing to give a partial certificate. Um you know, I received all the SWIPS uh from the um from their team. It's quite a big package of materials. I think there was
like 150 SWIPS that I received. So, a lot of stuff to go through. Um, but I did receive an affidavit from the DPW director today, uh, stating that he he and his team are going to take on complete ownership of the management of
the on&M for the rail trail moving forward. And let's see what else was was I missing. Those are the two lingering items that I remember um, you know, asking for for mass DOT in the town. So
um the last piece would be that for instance we need to get that final monitoring and mitigation report which they will be providing us in December of 2026. Um cuz that's what their final report said. Um I know that there were some
invasive species they needed to take a look at. So I'd be interested to see kind of how that works in the spring. Um, but you know, that's the only that that's the only thing I think that's hanging them up for getting a real full COC for this from a administrative side.
Um, but you know, obviously I'll I'll leave it up to the commission to discuss. Uh well, procedurally in the past, we've issued a partial when there's been a certain portion uh not complete and and the portion to
be completed has been generally bonded, >> right? >> Um I'm assuming we're not in exactly that situation here. So, how would we word a partial uh certificate? I mean are
um so what I would >> a beta group is looking for a partial certificate releasing them from further >> no so for instance you know obviously the the um the contractor is still responsible for getting all the information for the wetland mitigation
that they they basically owe the commission uh for impacting the resource areas. So they still need to prove to the commission that that work is been has been completed and it meets all the standards with wetland mit mitigation
criteria. Um but we won't have that final report until December 2026. So the question obviously is I've received everything from the the transition from where the town is going to take on ownership of the operation
and maintenance of the rail trail. That was one of the conditions within I think it was condition number 27 received all the the electronic versions of the SWIP. So they've met all those conditions for closeout except for the mitigation criteria.
>> So the question I think we just >> I have a couple comments. >> Okay. >> Uh they have I walk that trail every day. They have not they're going to have to go back and revisit a few things. So, one is the prevalence and the it's so that in
the notice of intent. Now, this is ironic because I was cleaning out a shelf in my living room that was probably 13 years old. Lo and behold, I came across the notice of intent for this project. Blew my mind. There's an entire section on invasive species
management and eradication. Did they do it? I don't think so. because this ragweed out there between North Washington and Cobb Street that's 3 ft high that's as deep as the um the side slope uh slide the side area especially near the farm the horse farm
I don't think they did any eradication now that's one two we have a drainage problem John when's the last time you walked out there >> I was out I was out there last uh Thursday
>> yeah okay so did you at mile point 0.5 uh it's right at the sign that says enter in Mansville. Did you notice that the entire surface of the rail trail is wet?
So, it has been wet since the winter. It is a safety hazard. So, I can tell you exactly what happened. There's an equalizer pipe that they put in further down into Mansfield. It's not draining anything. and they miss the low point. It happens. Okay. What that's
left with Morton is the the the um the shoulder narrows up drastically in one area. Okay. So, what's happening is the water's building up and it's just sheet flowing across the the um the railroad
the trail. It is wet to this day, right? So, it's wet all winter. It's just maybe the ground water is high. There's not enough storage on that side. The other side where the water really wants to go is massive and it can handle the storage. They need to
put a pipe under. They need to get the water from one side to the next so it doesn't constantly over top. It's iced. It's It was wet yesterday. So, there's this I took pictures of it. So, it's a it's a flaw in the drainage design and
it needs to be fixed because we are going to be stuck with it from a liability perspective with ice on this damn thing for months >> and it's wet all the time. >> It was the area I'm thinking of. I think I noticed it last uh summer as well. I
ride I cycle quite a bit and use the rail trail on the way back and I noticed it constantly wet despite there not being having been rain in many days. So, >> right. So they missed a low point coupled with the fact that it's it gets constrained
because there's ledge on that side. They just need to get the water from one side to the other and they're going to have to put a pipe in. I don't know whether they're going to have to sleeve it, jack it cuz we don't really want seam in it, but I would suggest that Beta get out there and do a walk to look at the area.
It's at mile point I think I said 0.5 half mile point. >> All right. So, >> and that's right in Norton. >> I'm I'm assuming >> it's right on the line. >> You're suggesting that we table this until that particular item is addressed.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That and the invasive species is it's obnoxious. And and the fact that they had an entire dissertation in their notice of intent about how to handle invasive species, yet they ignored it when they did the punch list is beyond me. >> They have work to do.
>> So, I am not willing to even issue a partial at this point. John, there's also a couple other things that I want to go over that the town's going to inherit on maybe Friday morning or something, I can meet you out there. >> Yeah, I mean that works. I mean, also I guess I guess the question is I mean
>> my biggest thing is if there's anything that the commission has concerns with or issues, could you put please put it in writing to me like and that way I can basically say that my members have specifically said >> X Y and Z. That way it's not coming from
me because to be honest with you, I don't think they're listening to me. So that's what I'm gonna say. Okay. >> Well, you know, if we're paying for this, we don't want to be stuck with liability and have water on the rail trail in this one spectrum. It's not supposed to have water on it. >> It needs to be fixed.
>> Understood. Uh, you know, just just to let you know, my the battery on my computer is about to die. that will not affect whether I can participate in the meeting, but my picture will disappear at some point. Um,
so all right, >> I have one. >> Uh, I have not been out there to see it and I probably won't make it out there, but I know we discussed multiple times about the envelope. Um, have any of those issues on the
envelope been addressed or are we still have overhanging branches? And >> so that was >> hazardous. >> Yeah, that was >> from above. >> That was a topic of concern obviously. And, you know, one of the one of the discussions that the DPW director, you
know, took into consideration was, you know, he wants to take a look at all the overhanging branches and itemize them all. So that way he can say, you know, this one needs to come out. This one was a problem. This one's a problem. And we we had a couple um you know, trees come
down with the most recent windstorm and they actually took out like part one of them are all the way across the trail and some of them are taking out fences. So you know, it's it's definitely something it's it's almost more than the the town can take off, you know, for for what they can do. Um, you know, besides
the mowing and all the vegetative maintenance, it's just, you know, with a staff of nine people, I mean, it's very difficult for them to figure out how they're going to be able to maintain this. But if the town needs to hire more people because the rail drill, they have to hire more people because of the rail trail. That's just
>> my concern is before we approve it and accept it, uh, if the envelope was to extend in these areas, it should have been delivered at that as a deliverable. Correct. It most certainly should have. Yes. >> Yeah. I mean, typically the last rail
trail I did, it went to the extent of the clear way. Here, it just seemed to go to the extent of the pavement. Now, I get it. You don't want to over you don't want to overdo it, but there's a lot of overhanging branches. It It's every time
the wind blows, there's something down. So, I would want to know what what was on the original notice of a techn. I swear I asked this question with Matt Shu of of um of beta like what's your clearance envelope, but I personally just don't
think it went far enough. But anyway, I I don't know what the original notice said on that. I don't have the plans. >> And I I can't recall from from the original notice of intent either, but I can definitely take a look to see.
>> All right. So, okay. it. But it sounds like do we need a motion to table? Uh, >> no. I mean, there's no there's no need for a motion or anything. It's kind of >> motion. You have a list of the issues to >> I mean I have I have four things right
now, but then I think Lisa has a couple more that she wants to share with me. So I think you know part of the thing is that if we have that punch list of things you know we can say that you need to meet X Y and Z for the commission to to and obviously all this stuff is in
our jurisdiction you know that's where I have to basically say that >> these are actually items within our jurisdiction. This is just not the rail trail and the uplands. This is in our jurisdiction. So and that's where I basically am going to have to inform the town of what's needed.
So, >> all right. So, we're all set with that. >> Ellen, I have a I have a question just real quick. Just through looking at the on andm there's it says if inspection indicates the need for major repairs of structural services, inspection inspectors should
contact Mansfield or Norton Department of Public Works. Um, what triggers inspection? >> That's a good question. what triggers inspection >> cuz it it's not it I didn't see any
other context there that it would be you know x amount of time or when when it occurs but I that was just something that sort of occurred to me that it says
if inspection should does this then we'll do this but what what triggers the inspection in the first I I would I would think I would think that if someone had a concern or someone gave a call, that would trigger the need for an inspection. Typically, when someone calls my office and they say
that I have an issue with X or I have someone's doing X or someone's doing that, it triggers me to immediately prioritize having an inspection because public safety and hazard is is part of part of the job. So I I would think >> but I would think for this rail trail
John somebody to Courtney's point would be walking it you know every week or two maybe every two weeks just to see all right are there any hazards any imminent hazards >> we need to start marking trees and limbs but >> right so one of one of the things that I suggested to the rail trail team which
I'm not part of by the way um is that I suggested putting together a memorandum on how how often you're going to inst inspect and maintain the rail trail. Are you going to be bi-weekly? Are you going to be by bi-weekly? Um, you know, and
how often are you going to be cleaning up all the trash? And how how often are you going to be doing X, Y, and Z? So, I took a So, just so we have a side note, my my father, you know, he he helped build the rail trail that goes from Hollist to Medway, and he had some of
that that work and stuff like that. So I took some of the the language from that report that they put together and basically implemented you know some strategies towards and put position in front of the town but I seem to have it's fallen flat. So um unfortunately I
don't know but anyway my point is is that um I'm hoping that for instance um when I talk to the new DPW director he'll be more understanding of what needs to get done. Uh and that way for instance we can have a better understanding what needs to get done
moving forward. So that way it's basically it's a place for people that can be safe and that there's no hazards when there people are out there walking their dogs or with their children you know things of that nature. And obviously that's not my purview but that's just a you know the courtesy for
open space that I'm I'm basically trying to advocate for. Um, and then the other question that I had is questions or concerns regarding maintenance activities may be addressed to Mansfield Department of Public Works, Norton Department of Public Works, or the Mansfield, Foxboro, Norton
Wastewater District. Um, I feel like an average person is not going to know who's responsible for what piece where to be able to I I feel like that's a little bit of a dissemination um dissolution of responsibility in in a
way because the average person walking out there isn't going to go, "Oh, I have a concern. This is in Mansfield. I'm going to call the Mansfield department." Like I I I just feel how how do you delineate between like who's responsible for which piece? >> Yeah. One of the one of the
>> pretty much everybody knows what town they're in a trail >> the sewer division the sewer consortium that you're referencing. It's because it it it's it shares a sewer line. So there's a sewer there. So like if I
saw something like if I saw a manhole cover that became dislodged and they're hold it down, I would know to call the Mansfield uh the town of the town sewer department versus the DPW for a bridge. I I think that's the distinction they were trying to make is because it's the
space is is used by two entities, right? It's got a sewer easement, but I think I think I walked out every day. I think people pretty much know what town there is cuz it's signed, right? When you get to get to Mansfield, there's a sign there. >> There's a sign that says you're now in
Norton and there's a sign that says you're now in Mansfield. >> Yeah. >> Um I know for a fact after because the DPW director was out with me during my sidewalk last week, but he does intend to put more signs out there advocating um who to contact and and things of that nature. So my understanding is that's
going to be implemented. They just haven't put those signs up yet. >> Okay. Well, John, is there any chance of in instead of adding yet another sign, can they put it in that shadow box? >> Yeah. So, we're trying to get keys for that shadow box so that way we can get that.
>> Okay. Okay. Okay. >> All right. So, >> all right. >> You have your >> So, moving on from real. >> Um, so we do have three sets of
uh orders. Um item one is Wheaten Estates 0 Pine Street file number 250-203. Um and there's a lot of yellow uh pages 1 2 5 and six have
uh conditions specific to this project. Um uh let's see the finding page is the whole is the first page. >> So John, my first comment is on number six.
>> Yes. >> All right. I'm giving him way too much leeway here. weapon application efforts shall immediately commence following construction of the weapon processing. Well, they can start it, but that doesn't mean they have to finish it. So,
I would suggest saying the replication area shall immediately uh be constructed, established, and stabilized construction of the weapon processing area. So, we want that dump. We want it buttoned up, not just started, right?
>> Yep. So at the end here commence following construction of the wetland crossing area and >> they need constructed >> and stabilized instead of commenced
instead of commence. >> Gotcha. >> They can start it and walk away for a year. >> Let's we're going to make sure we change that. >> Uh so construct and stabilize and plant, right? >> Yep. construct, plant, and stabilize.
However you want to word that. Okay. Um, the other thing, and you have to help me here. Claire did a fantastic job adding notes to the planet, and I saw one on the front cover for that was about wetlands. >> Yes.
>> There was one about lid. There was one about the vernal pool. Yeah. >> And there's one about snow storage. So, I'm seeing four things that need to be added if they're not here already. >> They're not. So, you want to add all four of those, >> please. So, one was about the wetland. I
have the plans in front of me. Um, do you have the plans, John? >> I do. Give me one second. >> Let me see if I can open them at the same time. Hold on. 327. Oh boy.
Hold on. Oh, okay. Yes. So, it's wetland. Oh, it's relative to when they have to come back to us about the wetlands permitting for individual lots. >> Yes. So the first one is any lot within which
any work is proposed within 100 ft of wetland resource area within 200 ft of the bank or perennial stream or river must file a notice of intent to concomment. It is likely that the following lots will require wetland permitting and they list them out. >> So you want to list you want to list the
um the lots add lots. >> Yep. Yep. >> Requiring NI permits. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay, so that's wetlands permitting for individual lots notes one and two. And
then we want to add the low impact development note one. And then we want to add uh the I don't know where the hell it is now. The snow storage note. Hold on.
I know it's there. Now, this is in findings, though. Is that where you wanted to? >> No, I'm going to put it. Sorry, we're not going to put in findings. We're going to put the conditions. >> Um, one second. It was the snow storage note. I think it was at the Oh, was at the back of the M&M. Must have been,
right? Supplemental. That's not it. I didn't realize. Hold on. Okay. Om. Okay. So, uh the on and it's section
five, number item five. I guess you want to just reference that. And we want to add that the vertal pool um documentation be provided to us. And I assume they got to certify it, right?
They got to send it in for certification. >> Um Okay. snow storage lid. And then Joe had a comment about the um guy. I think that was it.
>> Yeah, Joe had Well, you had the the sewer connection, too. Don't forget that one. >> The sewer connection, of course. >> Sewer and the mash standards. Yeah, but the sewer >> the sewer goes in A in that long list under A.
>> Yeah, I'm going to add that one. >> Yeah, don't rearrange them. I'm just want to get them down. So, the notice of intent, is it sewer and water or just sewer none? >> All right, we're going to make sure it should sewer and water cuz they're both going to pop. They're going to have to do them both at the same time.
>> Roadway and Joe, what was it specifically? >> I'm just saying the notice of intent. The notice of intent for water and sewer that will service the subdivision should be um >> it's going to be here prior to commencement of any >> Yeah.
>> So I'm just going to >> Okay. Um cement and walls and content sewer slash water utility
project street associated with the states. Um, and Joe, sorry, what what were you saying again? Sorry, I lost my train of thought. >> That's uh Massachusetts DOT MASH
standards. >> Okay. So, it's just the it's the guardrail detail must be based on on per >> I'm going to say roadway and guardrail
>> and and guardrail specifications. >> Well, it's just the guardrail, not the road. You would want a road to be designed to mass state. >> Well, yeah. Oops. >> I don't want that. That would be bad. Yeah, you never know. Alternative.
>> We would not be able to do that. >> Guard rail meets mastery stairs. Okay. So, I have little snippets here for everything. Let me just make sure I got everything. Um, so you're basically saying wetland replication effort shall immediately be
constructed, plan and stabilized following construction of the roadway >> and and oh maybe this should say also in prior to any any other earth disturbance >> right sh be constructed
but but when are we when are we asking for the wetland replication be done after the railway is constructed Binder >> road to get to the replication. >> Binder course. Do we want to say binder course? >> No. Well, do they need to build the road
to put the replication in? I can't remember. >> They're going to have to build part of part of the road, I would think. Right. >> Or at least start it. >> So, they have to cross it to get to the replication area.
>> Well, one, if I remember correctly, Let me Oh, let me see if I can open the plans. >> John, can we add the spilled kit in here again for the wetlands area? >> Yes. >> Let me just put it here cuz I'm going to
What do you want? You said you wanted you wanted to take out heavy machinery, right? >> I I do. >> Okay. >> If we can just refer back to that other order verbiage in it. >> I'm going to I'm going to put that one in there
cuz I had language for that. try to figure out. Don't think how many wetland application areas could they have. I see one. >> There were two. >> There two. Okay, hold on. I'm trying to find the plant the right
plant shape. Hold on. It does not look like they need to do any crossings before they do the wetland replication area. One is right off of Pine Street. The other one
is off of the next culdeac over. So I do not think they have to make a crossing. >> So you want So do you >> So we should >> Do you want to condition >> prior to the wetland crossing? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And any and any other, you know, earth
disturbance. So they they really need us to get in there, get that established, get it done, and then they can go to town. you have wetland crossings or actually any any further earth disturbance and any earth other earth disturbance
>> trying to quantify it right and I guess that's the question because they're going to have to do earth disturbance to get there >> because they can't >> you know beyond beyond accessing it and and mobilizing to do But they but they can't start clearing and grubbing
anywhere else. >> I think that's the language. >> There you go. >> Cuz you can't do anything unless clear and rub, >> right? >> Okay. >> So, does condition number six look okay
then? Yep. Okay. >> Good to me. >> All right. So then obviously um I added prior to construction 1 B. I got to change the numbering here, but that's
okay. Uh submit a notice of intent for the sewer water utility project within Pine Street associated with Wheaten Estates. That's one of the things that we requested, right? >> Okay. >> And then under administrative conditions, we're going to under that
language, I'm going to add the lots requiring the notice of intent permits for all those lots that's listed. Um there's that LI note number one that you um you mentioned that's on the same kind of package. >> The snow storage note, right?
>> Yep. >> And then item number five in the O and M, right? Is that what you were referring to? >> Yes. Correct. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Um and that we're going to add a condition that says vulnerable pool definition shall be provided to the
commission. >> Do we want to ask it to be certified? Do we need to go that far or there expectations they're going to certify it? Right. >> I I think it's going to be certified. So I think Claire also said that for instance she'd be willing to give us the um confirmation notice that it was
certified from the portal. Okay. >> So, >> okay. And maybe proof of um Yeah. >> Proof of submission. >> Yep. >> Okay. I can't remember what it's called, but I
will definitely get the right language in there. Um >> Okay. >> And the guardrail meets the mass DOT standards. That was one thing Joe commented on. And he also wants me to put language in there for the spill kit for vehicles um similar to what we did
for zero east hodgees. So is there anything else um with this conditions? I guess these special conditions that I've listed in here that anyone has any concerns or questions with regards to >> John was there something about perpetuity and weren't we going to do
something with deed restrictions too here? >> Yes. So, um, if I'm not mistaken, uh, let me see where I put it in here. It's somewhere in here.
It's quite a bit. See where it is. Is it down here? No. I know I had language in here about the deed restriction stuff similar to what
they did over in Pine Street. >> Oh, it's right here. >> Three. >> Yeah, three. >> And I made sure to get the information from um the planning board plan. So, and this was one of the conditions
that I believe they had in their decision as well. All right. And then is there anything in the post construction list? I mean it's all pretty standard in the post construction. Um making sure that for instance the storm
management systems have been cleaned and standard um stabilization mitigation areas. Obviously, we're going to request an affidavit from um obviously Claire and her team.
Um and she's going to have to get basically uh confirm that the areas are invasive species free, right? And then just your t typical as plan letter uh from the engineer. I don't know if there's anything else
that we'd be looking for for close out. Obviously, the notice of intent for the sewer project would be its own separate entity. So that >> John on that on that notice of intent being a separate entity
um would it have to be an approved notice of intent before this site was disturbed? >> Well I think that for instance you know that's a good question obviously cuz this is this is more unique is we have submit a notice of intent for the sewer
water utility project with pine street associated with the wheat in the states. We're not saying, you know, that it's submit and and approved by the commission. Do you want to basically say an approved, you want to basically have an order of conditions for this before they get going on it or do you want to basically
have it kind of an understanding of what they're proposing? Well, >> I presumably they're not going to be submitting an order intent without an agreement with the town already to
put the sewer in. Yeah. I mean, this is going to have to get ironed out through the DPW. Um, and you know, obviously they have to make sure that everything works and jives with what they what they need. Um, I don't know how long that's
going to take. Um, they could easily submit a permit to the commission. I just don't know what the timeline would be for actually facilitating completion. Right. >> Well, I can't.
>> Well, we can also tie this. Let's let's do this. We'll leave the notice of intent there and we can tie this that they cannot start construction until the issuance of the order of conditions for the sewer project. So one we want upfront early on we want
we want the notice of intent right and then we tie we tie this to the um the start of construction to the issuance of the order conditions for the sewer. So to your point, maybe we just want to
say the order conditions for the sewer here. I was trying to go easy, >> right? Cuz what what I have here is probably the commencement of any soil disturbance or constru construction activities. So >> okay, >> that's kind of >> so then I could it would make sense to
say the order conditions. >> Okay. >> Right. >> I I think so. >> Yeah. Well, we'll have orders. We don't say provide a car. We just say order conditions. >> It's It's acted up right now. I don't
know what's going on. >> Okay. Okay. So, I would just say order conditions for water cooler utility work. >> Very delayed. Well, I was going to say that they should provide us a um
uh what is it? Uh registry stamped order of conditions cuz then it would have been recorded recorded version, right? >> Yeah, we were going to be issuing it. So, >> yeah,
>> I want to basically say that has to be issued by the commission. >> Okay. That will definitely scream instruments. All right, there you go. Okay. So,
I will make a motion to issue the order conditions for file 250-1203 as drafted and discussed. >> All right, we have a motion by Lisa and seconded by
>> second uh second by Joe. So, So, Mark, Joe, and Courtney, how do you vote? >> I >> I >> I >> And Lisa and Dan,
>> I >> I >> And I'll throw in an I. Motion carries. Um our next item is the ORAD the order of resource area deligation for 89R North
Washington which is file number 250 uh-124 and that has been amended to include the uh certified vernal pool number for
uh a 100 vernal pools. Um, you want to bring this one up? >> Yeah, I'm trying to. One sec. Trying to close this. Um, don't know why I cannot.
Um, can you go back with the arrow? >> I don't see the arrow. some reason why it's out. Oh, there it is. All right. Now, you can go back with an arrow.
>> Let's see. Go to the upper arrow. >> Uh, this one. Where is it? There it is. Okay. Red.
Okay, awesome. All right, let me just go back to the screen and share it the group. Okay, so what I need to do is I need to add
>> Yeah, I got to add the the I don't know it off the top of my head. I I emailed it to the applicant. I just don't have it off my um >> It's 2156. Jim >> 2156. >> Yep. >> And then I wanted to Whoops. What's
going on there? >> Two6. I wanted to uh get the potential variables if they were listed, but I don't recall if they are or not. >> There's one. There's only one mass mapper.
I just shut Oh, no. Here we go. There's only one PVP on Mass Mapper, >> right? >> And it's number >> seven something, right? >> No, it's 218. >> 218. >> Yeah. How come there's only one?
>> I don't know. >> Oh, >> maybe Natural Hired isn't doing as many inspections as they used to. >> Huh. Okay. So, it's it's basically due norththeast of the other one. I don't know where the second one was. >> I'm going to I'm going to look back and
see if it's if it's this one or this one, but we'll we'll make make sure that it's corrected. Just going to highlight it. >> Yeah, it was just two uh 218. Yeah, you don't know if it's 218. So, I would just clean up a couple things. Number two
says potential vernal pools exist on the site. I would just scratch that whole thing so that we capture it under under B. Okay. Right. >> Yeah, that's fine. >> Okay. Um, my next question or
clarification is which wetland series to this we have to now cross tie this to which wetland series does that certified verbal pool fall in? >> That fall. >> Yes. So that falls in I think it's the
>> a plan. It should be on the plan. >> It's not the E series. I want to say it is this this series here or it's A. It's either this or A. I will make a note.
>> BP. I'm going to play this now. Was it in the back? >> No, it's on the side. It's just if you're looking from a from a perspective of Johnson Acres is to the north. >> Yep. >> And it's the first vernal pool that you
see in the middle. It's like centralized. >> See one PVP. I see. I see another. It's across the property line. >> Oh, is it is it on our property? >> Yeah, it's on our property. >> A small portion of it comes onto their property.
>> Okay. It looks like it's um Jeez, I can't even read this. Can't the flags. Hold on. Go a little blind. Okay. It's I see it to WF30. Oh, vertical pool 4-4. >> Yep.
>> Let's see. WF28. Yeah. 28 to 32. >> Oh, that's it. >> That's it. >> That's it. >> Okay. >> Okay. Okay. >> I thought that was the one. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Right.
>> CP number 2.56. All right. >> That's all I have. Okay. >> Anybody else have any any comments?
>> Uh if not, we're ready for a um motion to >> I'll make a motion to issue the ORAD profile 250-1204. >> Seconded. So, we have a motion by Lisa,
second is by Courtney, Mark, Joe, and Courtney. How do you vote? >> I >> I >> I'm >> And Lisa and Dan, how do you vote?
>> Hi. >> I seem to be freezing up. Um, now I'll throw in an I. The motion carries. The motion carries. Um, our last item is
Oh, there the order of conditions on 1270 Hodgees Street file number 250-125. Um, so I don't know, was this a test? Nothing is highlighted here. >> Yeah, I'm I'm making sure you guys read
them now. >> It's a joke. >> I mean, the findings are are specific. >> I'm trying to make it more difficult for you now, >> but I don't think there's anything terribly unique here. It's pretty
pretty standard site. So, anyone have any comments? >> Oh, I'll make a motion to issue the order conditions for file 250-120 above as written. >> We have a motion by Lisa, seconded by
>> seconded by Mark. So, uh, Lisa, Dan, and Mark, how do you vote? >> I >> I >> I >> and, um, Joe, and Courtney,
>> I >> I >> an I. So, our last item of business is a motion to adjourn. So moved. >> Second.
and Mark Yo and Courtney. How do you vote? >> Hi. >> Hi. >> Hi. >> And um Lisa and Dan. >> Hi. >> Hi.
>> And I'll throw in. >> Uh do we really have to do this that formally since uh our old town manager is now gone? I'd still like to do it >> with the new town manager. So, we're going to make sure we're following
procedure. >> The motion to appear in pass. >> All right. Thank you everybody.