##VIDEO ID:Iy3ItS0SUmM## all right thank you everyone for the patience um welcome to the Joint meeting of the finance committee school committee and select board January 8th 2025 I'm going to call the select board meeting to order um our roll call we have myself Alec Rich we have Roger Marson we have Kevin Snider we have Denise Luciano so you can call your boards yep I call the meeting of the thcom to order I have Paula Trace Zack Gavin and myself and Bonnie is online I'm here and I'll call the school committee to order I have myself uh Dan Shey Sher Cohen Audrey michella and Justine Gan all right excellent and now we have the Pledge of Allegiance I to the flag of the United States of America to the stand indivisible with liy and justice for okay and um before we start we did have a something uh a memorial um so just like to uh make note um we uh we lost a good friend um this past week um John Freeman passed away he's U been involved in the town for a very long time just like to make note of that and that um his wake is tomorrow and relatives and friends are cordially invited to attend visiting hours on Thursday January 9th from 5:00 to 8:00 p.m. at the Norton Memorial Funeral Home 19 Clap Street um offer gr 40 in nor um like to see as many people show up for that as we can thank you thank you Roger um so as I had said earlier I think we're going to try to make this um short and sweet I wanted to get all these boards together so that we're all on the same page about the process and the timeline for the budget I feel like last year kind of um we're a little off the rails so I want to make sure we're all on the same page here um did you all have the timeline did you get the timeline that was put together by Mr units yes okay thank you so our initial thoughts were that um that town departments would come to Mr units with I believe what a 3% budget is that right yes um so we are looking at 3% and U if someone's looking at anything other than that I'll tell them to give me explanations on why uh they would need more than the 3% okay so I think I think for our purposes um and this I'll open it up to the board after this but I think I think initially those budgets should come in at 3% and that's it um if they want anything above that that'll be a separate a separate issue that we can tackle later on but I think everybody should come in with a 3% budget um and again I'll open it up to the board here Mr chair Mr chair um I'd like to note that it can be less than 3% would be okay thank you so just a quick question for clarification then so are we not supposed to say what our needs are in order to stay at the 3% are we supposed to just so something to answer that question I'm not sure how it's it's been done years and years in the past but last year was debacle it it was ridiculous um I think coming in at 3% is what we're asking everybody to do and then you're need will be dealt with after that we want to see the initial 3% budget and then afterwards we'll discuss that um that's St going to be something that's discussed immediately we want to see that you can get a 3% budget to everybody for every Department good question y I think personally I think there'd be some value understand the 3% budget ask but at Value in understanding what level budget level funding looks like too so rather than laying off people in one place but the ability to hire somebody someplace else I like to understand what does it take to be level set Services no changes and that may be over 3% for some and under for others yeah I think that's typically what the schools tend to do is look at what our level services will be year-over-year which is basically keep what we have with you know zero Cuts I know last year that was a bigger number um but I and then we look at to get to the 3% this is what is eliminated to get to 3% so if I'm understanding correctly you want to see 3% everything that's going to be eliminated if we get to 3% like going to be like handcuffed right off the bat at 3% my my position is and again this is just my personal position is that we should see the 3% budget first and then work from there so if there are needs above and beyond that to get to level Services then we work from there but I I think what we did last year was backwards um and I mean it didn't it didn't work but that's historically the way we've done it just historically it's been done improperly but I understand that's how you would like to see it but for us to do it that way we have to do what's right for our students our families our school system so like what Dan is saying for us to just commit at 3% oh just uh forget about everything else like that doesn't make sense for us but we're not saying that that's going to be the final budget we're saying this is the very first budget that's brought in should be a 3% budget and then we work from there but we have to at least show what we what our needs are that it has to be in that budget as well what our needs are or else we're not really showing what we truly need unless I'm misunder I don't know if I'm misunderstanding something to me it sounds like the the process we usually come in is reversed like you and I might be misunderstanding what your position is Steve but Ty at least the schools since in my time here we look at what level Services is and and I'm going to throw it on number level Services is 5% then we you know we vote on our 5% budget we know we might not get it and then for us personally when we get 3% is when we look at what our cuts for our departments will be so for us it's a little different where and I don't want to speak for police fire Town whatever those are but for us to do 3% off the bat would be disingenuous of us because it's so early in the process that we may come back and again that we it's the will of the voters to give the percent that they want to give to whatever Department it is so I think for us it's disingenuous to our staff to say we're only going to get 3% which means again throwing out another 30 layoffs we can't be flirting with layoffs in February so so here's the thing we have a 2 and a half% increase every year so every budget should be going up 2 and a half to 3% a year so the very first budget that should come in should be at 3% and I understand that so what you're telling me is that you're not going to come in at 3% which is which is okay I understand that I don't know 3% look but I think exactly well you should we haven't done our numbers so I can't tell you what looks well I'm not asking for your numbers tonight I'm saying that that's what it should be at can I just ask can't do that then then there's a problem and I please understand I'm trying to understand to make sure I'm not misunderstanding something and I I don't mean any disrespect at all with my next comment but whose call is it to tell us what number we need to bring forward can I can I jump in here quick so I think we need to kind of take one little bit of a step back one and I'm looking at Mike and Jen when we talk about annual Town budgets per the town Charter that is not necessarily the school the school committee sets the budget period what we are trying to do as a school committee is I would like to and I think our my members would as well our school committee would want to work with the select board and the fincom to put together something that we are all as a majority in favor of right we go to the towns people and say Hey listen this is what you know fincom agrees to select bers you know also put their you know stamp of approval on it school committees set with this number and we kind of send something forward that makes sense obviously to the town hypothetically though that's us playing nice correct Mike [Music] Jen so you're right you do have you're you're a independently elected board you have the right to uh prepare your budget um any way you see fit and then submit that and there's a timeline when that has to be submitted and then um it's my job then to prepare my budget for the town which includes the schools and present that to the finance committee and uh the school committee and the select board and and that's why when we see when those final budget documents are done there's separate columns for school commit recommended budget and town manager recommended budget is that correct Mike um you'll see um the final you'll see a finance committee recommendation in a town man yeah and then like what the request was um I think from my perspective I'm thinking about the school budget really in three different phases so a 3% which is what we're being asked to put forward a level service which is what our goal is is to provide the same level of services for our students year after after year but then I actually think that's even different than what Sher you were saying what our needs are we had a $3.4 million budget deficit last year we Le off 29 people we were able to bring three people back over the summer we were able to get a little bit of M money at fall town meeting our needs and our level service are not the same thing um and I can tell you level service will be more than 3% um Christine and I have the numbers we've spent a lot of time with them already um we're also in the middle of contract negotiations with our teachers our power professionals our custodians and our administrative assistants so it's very challenging to put together a budget and say this is the number when you're in the middle of negotiations because we do not know um what that final number will be and we have to negotiate in good faith um so I understand where the you know select board would like us to come forward with 3% I understand that's the goal um I think it's really important for us to show what the level services are and what the needs are of our school Community as well okay so just to jump in I think there is a little confusion I think the 3% is not meant to be your final budget the 3% is meant to be a starting point and then we work from there I think that's just getting confused somehow I guess I just don't understand why we can't come to you as a starting point with because we have the the mandates and all of that I I just don't understand why we can't come to you with a budget of our level Services what we need and and a 3% if that's you come with both but but my personal thought was and I believe we discussed this before was 3% but at least as a starting point you can come with both at the same time I think we have to because I think we would be doing a disservice and again I don't know that I'm wrapping my head around what you're saying so so last last year last year you came with a 12% increase ask and and and it took up until what a week before town meeting to get a 3% budget I want to start with 3% budget and then increase it from there as we can so we want to do a back from what was done last year because I think everything's been personally I think it's been done backwards for years I mean again I don't think and again I with all due respect here like where we were last year we were also staring at what was going to be a possible override the the resident spoke L me clear I mean it is what it is so I think now now that we know what we're looking to do where our residents you know voted on I don't think a 3% is crazy to start with personally I totally agree with what sher's saying in terms of you know this is not how we've done it and not to mention it might be impossible for us one I I'm just going to say it right now we're going contract negotiations with three different unions right now you know we're in contract negotiations we have zero idea what that's going to look like Christine Jen I think the teachers is what 85% of our budget their salaries and whatnot and stiens and everything so I mean we're looking at a huge number that is a very well unknown right now you know um obviously we're trying to I think both of us both the teachers union and and you know us negotiating the contracts would like to have that done sooner than later because that's all always going to help us but I do think everyone's got to be prepared that like we may not know those numbers I mean take a look around as what's happening you know in the state in terms of you know teachers contracts and negotiations and how they've gone we might be in the spot that you know come March where we're supposed to Smith this budget we don't have a contract done starting for for July 1 and who knows what those costs look like so I do think we got to be a little careful to shev's point of what does this look like what does 3% look like and I think I'm not necessarily disagreeing but I do think we need to all understand we're a little bit of a different situation here with the times we're inad Denise I I want to clarify first this board had not discussed the 3% idea before but I also I understand the desire to say it's 3% across the board to make it easier and just say listen we've got 3% increase in dollars so everyone gets 3% and let's just look at what that looks like but that doesn't take into account the different complexities of the different departments and the size of the different departments right you may have a department that actually doesn't even need as much money as they had last year because someone retired someone new came in that's at a lower rate and they actually could go with a decrease but you're going to they're going to come back and say I've got 3% incre increase so I'm just going to figure out where I can spend that 3% right versus US putting it where we might actually need it so well we should be budgeting based on level Services keeping everything the same versus just saying everyone gets 3% that's not taken into account complexities at all so again um I'm not saying everybody gets 3% I'm saying that's a starting point that should be the starting point because that's what our budget allows so let's start at that and then Mike do you want to add yeah I was just going to say like General government 3% that doesn't mean that every department is getting 3% like like you were saying General government if General government can only get 3% there may be some departments that get but General government may not need 3% and so what I don't want to see happen is that we're adding headcounts in one place and then laying off 30 more teachers yeah I just wanted to make it clear that it's not like individual one two person Department you get 3% you know it's the general if we looked at 3% for General government it would be 3% total for the entire general government operation I I really just need to understand what is it going to cost us to keep everything the same as it is today what will that cost us next year Mr jff M maybe I can help um so the school budget has to be uh finalized to to the town manager no later than 8 weeks prior to town meeting which is March 24th so that's what s weeks from now something like that so a question for Jen if you're putting together your budget does it take you longer to put together a level Services budget and a um a needs budget um and a three uh in addition to a 3% budget and and if it does take longer are we talking five weeks longer or are we talking you know a week so to put together three different line item budgets does take us quite a bit longer obviously because we have so many line items um our budget is very big um but you know we have our level service budget we obviously um there are projections in that based on contract negotiations and assumptions um because that's the reality of what we have to do right now um for us to put together a 3% budget we can certainly do that um I don't know how long it would take us I think it's fine I we definitely were able to put together all the budgets that were requested last year with with you know with ample time um and we know what our needs are we we we know what the positions are that we really wish we could bring back um we also know and are able to read the room in terms of the community spoke very loud and clear last summer the an override is not on the table in any way shape or form so what my administrative team has been asked to do is to be really creative in what and what we're asking for and if you are asking for a new position or something along those lines then what are we giving up in order to have that happen we cannot be going in with additional FTE they know that we've talked about this you're not going to see a budget from the school system that is outrageous it's going to reflect the need of our students okay so I guess the point I was trying to make there is that I don't necessarily see the advantage of just saying well everybody give us 3% um and I don't really see how that speeds up the process necessarily if we're if if we're going to get a budget at 3% on X date and then we're going to get another budget 2 weeks later and it does we're not saying that the schools or whoever won't get 3% what does it matter if we start out at 3% and then get another budget a week later it's not like we the select board has anything to say about what the school committee presents to us as their budget am I making sense absolutely and and this is just a request we're not mandating that from the school committee it's the school committee's budget so we're not I mean that was that was just a request as a as a starting point because that's the percentage that our our our our increased budget is every year so I mean I I think that's a no-brainer for me to start at 3% and work our way up if we can work our way down hopefully in other departments uh but again I I I don't think that's a huge ask I mean again uh Dr an said that the town has spoken they've spoken very loudly and they want us to stick to our budget and our budget is 3% if if there's more to to to to give to the schools I know there will be you know then that increases but I think that's a starting point and I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that I think it's just important for us to show what our needs truly are absolutely I we just keep getting cut you know not I shouldn't say that I shouldn't say it that way you know what I mean like we we've had to you know lay do layoffs and and change programming and things like that so I just think it's important and it's our job as a school committee to really show what our needs are that that's what I was saying and so I I appreciate that that's um your recommendation and that's kind of what that's why I was asking and I said I please don't take it please don't take offense to that because I just want to know because if it's our job as a school committee I feel like I'm not holding up my role here if I'm just doing a 3% and not doing what we actually need so I just wanted to make sure I was clear yeah I would never say not to submit what you need no no I just want to make sure I understood okay yeah and again it maybe came off wrong but no the 3% was was the starting point the base the Baseline let's start there and and move on from that I'm sorry Sandy you yeah just um I think from a fincom perspective personally I I'd like to see as much information at the beginning as possible um so if you know if if they if you want multiple budgets that's fine but I would definitely want to see uh rather than saying giveing your 3% now now later um you know giveing more information I'd rather have that information up up front so we can um see what you know what does a what do those cuts look like um and the other question I have is do we think that we're even going to be able to give schools a 3% given that it was a 1% last year that's and that may not even be all the cuts that have to get me so I guess I'm not sure where that if that 3% for other budgets or for the general government where you can kind of play around and and lower and upper you know just just um balance them out is one thing but 3% of the school budget is a huge number um and and I don't know that that are we guaranteeing they're even going to get that and if not then that's a lot of work to then have to make more cuts on top of that good yeah I was just going to say and so that you know you'll see all the information it'll be the same way on all the town departments Town departments will be asked to submit their budget based on level services and then it'll be up to me to go through all the Departments to say well we don't have that so this is what's going and this is the budget we're going to present which that's how we've done it in the past correct yeah that's been the process and that's what concerns me about being given a number of 3% now because historically you know years when we had a better budget we we've got haven't gotten 3% you know so I mean I I I and and respectfully Steve I know I just don't want to start throwing out a 3% like historically what the schools will do is look at level Services submit that and and I think the school committee is a little bit unique where we set our budget for our department versus Mike setting it for you know the the the other departments in town so and and we say this every year our vote on our budget is largely a figurehead vote because it's not the final number that we may be granted through the budget process at town meeting like we know what our needs are we could we could vote on a 7% budget knowing we're not going to get it but that's what we have to do to advocate for the students that we represent and the families that we represent in town so that's my only hesitation with hearing a 3% number off the bat and and you know because when we looked at this at town meeting I I remember Mike had a slide you know when we looked at the 3% increase I think it was only like 900,000 for the whole town um and then once we had those allocations to you know other things that we needed to pay off it was like down to you know a couple hundred, a sprad spread out over the whole town versus you know things like that so that's my only hesitation Steve and I understand you know your perspective that the budget was a mess last year but I think at least from speaking from the school committee side we've been very you know proactive in that we know what our level Services would be and I'll throw out a number and say it's 7% it's not um and if we come back at 3% we know what our 3% is going to look like I I think we have a good grasp on what our budget looks like and and I trust Dr O'Neal and her staff to know that some level Services might be 7% we don't know but we know from the conversations Dr O'Neal is going to have with Mike that it's going to be 3% then we'll be pretty in the ballpark about what our what our slashes might need to be I think that's that last sentence you reiterated the reason for the 3% so you can know what potentially your Cuts might have to be because I mean last year it was we're cutting with 60 people and then it was 40 and then it was so you didn't know because you didn't prepare that so if you start if you if you prepare the initially were prepared so I think I think let let me jump really quick so hold on last year we came with multiple different budgets correct and why we came with multiple different budgets is because this meeting didn't really happen of EX exactly what you guys wanted not for and I'm not blaming stck I'm not blaming fincom but we've never been given a piece of paper that tells us what the timeline looks like what what that's why one of the main reasons why I wanted to be here tonight is to say to hear s Bo looking for 3% what is fincom looking for us so we don't have to go back and do well now we need this oh we want that oh we want this this is why that meeting occurred in the first book we're going to have these discussions we sat through multiple Mee of hey if we get 4% this is what cuts are going to look like if we get 2% this is what cuts are going to look like if we get one we went all the way down to zero there was a time where we had that you know we were talking about we might get a a reduction not even a 1% and we had that prepared so we were ready to go and we were prepared we were just following the lead of of Mike and select B saying hey what are we actually looking at soon as we got to that number all it was was handing in a different piece of paper so I and again I don't mean to jump on you like that it's okay don't you can't jump on the school committee say we weren't prepared cuz we were prepared as if we have ever been okay can I let me let me let me apologize for that that I should have said that yeah the school committee did put a lot of work into it and everybody did um I think the way it came out publicly it seemed it seemed different but um that being said I mean that it's it's a recommendation and a starting point um so that you're prepared that's all and Zach if you don't mind just um one of the things that's really challenging from a school perspective is that we're having a lot of conversations about people's livelihoods and it's not appropriate to have some of those conversations in a public forum where people may be hearing for the first time that they're going to be laid off if we're having specific conversations about specific roles or positions they should hear that from me oneon-one or they should hear that from their principal they should not hear that um during a joint meeting or or on television or through social media um and I think that other thing that's important is when you are starting to look at Cuts you don't know what those positions are going to be right off the bat so you take an average salary and you multip you divide that average salary by whatever your deficit is when you're finally getting into the nitty-gritty of what those positions are going to be the salaries are not exact so that's why those numbers change and that's why they fluctuate from the beginning of it um but I appreciate Nick your point we were absolutely ready and prepared and we will do the same this year if the school committee wants to share a 3% and what our level Services is um by March 24th we will have that information prepared for you all right anyone else those second good ah Mike when will you have numbers on what the total say that the last when will you have a final number at what the total in uh uh revenue is for the town um we should know within about 7 Days okay so instead of going through all this that I've just been listening to uh we have a traditional 7030 split okay so why don't we just take it's $100 million just for argument sa schools you're going to get 70 million Town you're going to get 30 million and then come up with a budget and then go through your normal process and say okay that means x amount of cuts for our department bring it to the select board bring it to the finance committee and then let's have a discussion whether we want to take from here and move it here instead of you know let's come up with three let's come up with two this is what we got we got $100 million you get 70 you get 30 now let's have a discussion of priorities and then we can have say okay do we want to take from here and move it there or a take from the schools and put it there I think that's a much fair smoother process when he's going to have a number for us in seven days so I just I want to make two point one one's a question SL comment is you know one of the things we we had a lot of last year is like last minute requests so publicly I'd like to State and ask does the finance committee need any additional information I know we got some requests last year late late in the day that we just couldn't come up with when it came to salaries and line items and things like that so if there's any information that anybody is looking for as we start this process please let us know because we we had to say no last here because it was a daunting task to figure out as we're going through our budgets um the second part I just want to you know for everybody to consider you know last year was unique when you know throughout the summer you you know override failing and then all of a sudden you know the the money comes in higher with with different various things I'm not going to think I'm smart enough to know what it was but we have to remember at least when it comes to the schools that you know June 30th we close our books July 1st we open them so any supplements we get like this past year we can't add staff typically once the school year starts so when we look to you know rebound from any cuts that we make if it's later and later in the summer and after the school year starts like this year you know we're not going to be able to possibly fill some of those positions because the the folks we would Target aren't available so you know fall town meeting we can we typically do some some non you know thing you know things in the budget but we can't add Staffing at falltime meeting because it's you know November at that point so I just want everybody to be aware of that that you know we can't get this nice supplemental budget request and then be whole again so that's one of the things that that is challenging for the school is that we do have to close our books and start a new year um in July so all the more reason to to prepare this properly uh as best we can which I which I'm sure you'll do so just um in the chatter it says that the school budget shall be arranged to show the actual expenditures for the two previous fiscal years the estimated expenditures for the current year and the ensuing fiscal year so there should be four years on the wait okay so um sure we do that yeah on the on the detail apart thanks for bringing that up um Mike when you present the budget to us with all the different departments be very helpful for both the school and from the town side to see headcount ideally the last two years and then the proposed year coming forward but the headcounts are for each of those departments and the LS so I guess Dan had a great question like from fincom do you guys hand other departments a little list of what you want to see how you want to see it or is it just kind of like present your budget and go I I hand them notes it says stop spending money you know I think um I think Mike gives him a worksheet um that's a standard worksheet that that has the right mik you give everybody like a template to fill out out that we've been um I think using for several years yeah I I think Dan had a great question too and and this another reason for this meeting is to to avoid those last minute changes and those last minute um Corrections and everybody worked so hard last year um it's incredible how many hours inom but in so U we're trying to avoid their 10hour meetings hopefully go ahead Mr chair um I just want to answer uh your question Dan so I know there was a member last year late in the game I apologize for that that asked for um the salaries similar to how we see it from the other departments where there's each person with their role with their salary and their incentives so he was asking for that information and I believe your system the way you do things can't easily pull that it was going to require a lot of like work for you to produce that just it doesn't all exist in the same place exactly exactly that but I believe going forward this member in particular wanted to see um the salaries to look just as it's presented from the other departments so I guess my question is is could fincom provide us a bulleted list of an index card of what you would like to see from the schools because we are a little bit different from what the town possible departments want uh but if you give us that information of what we're looking for you could get it you know Mike I'm sure yeah but I template yeah I mean if we get that again I've sat on this not that long but I've sat on for 3 years and I've never seen a template to to go it probably goes to Jen and Christine and I believe Christine you and I have seen what the town salary piece look like correct did you see that last spr yeah you showed us one yeah I I think the biggest thing Paul and I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert but I I think when it came to that salary line item we we as a school department didn't have access to the town's program to print that list it was something Christine was going to have to do literally line by line which was I think she said it was going to be like like 10 or 15 hours over time or something and we said we we can't do that this late in the game you know especially because you know to your point we're preparing for multiple different scenarios so that's why you know yeah so I mean that's it's not I mean Chris would would ultimately you know do it if asked but there was just it was so late in the the year that we just couldn't do it we couldn't make it happen so again the whole goal of this meeting is is to avoid those things and try to all get together and and figure this stuff out so we're not doing that so I mean this member is not present I'm just bringing it up on his behalf and so in case he waits till April again to bring it up I'm just going to bring it up now um yeah I have one more question sorry um Mike as far as providing Revenue information to us possibly next week maybe the week after um are you also going to know the estimated like fixed and shared expenses I won't have that next week no okay when do you think the earliest you would have that what's that what would be the earliest that you would have that to us um probably towards the beginning of February Mike I did have one question and this kind of goes back to everything that happened over the summer is when we look at our budget process and we get everything ready for town meeting and so forth is is there numbers that we don't have as a town like we don't know the state aid we don't know the state things do we have a list somewhere of what we don't know and we're just speculating even for town meeting yeah it's usually the state aid we always we'll never have it they they never finish the budget until July well we have a rep here so maybe be good time to point out thank you Mike Jas for com that wasn't a direct question or anything like that all right okay so uh anyone have any other questions statements want to yell at me come on let's do it no I think this packet has definitely been very helpful I don't know I've never seen it so this is great they kind of laid out everything that we kind of needed um and like I said from from the schools committee standpoint is you know we want to work with you guys and we want to you know have the support you know kind of running in our favor if you will um so I think that's exactly kind of what we were looking for and giving us some dates and things that we need and helps us out when we're trying to go through this whole process as well as you know we do tackle a lot um I feel like for like seven months last year all we did was talk about the budget so uh you know hopefully this will definitely clear clear that up so Nick as you said you know for three years I I didn't see this either and um the select board in my three years had not taken the lead on budgeting so um I'm hoping to you know we can kind of Take the Lead and and make it a smooth process for everybody um and one other thing is you know a lot of times last year we had meetings because we had we had an emergency meeting because fincom didn't vote on something that we should have voted on first um I'd like to avoid that this year and anything that we have to vote on first should come before the select board and then go to fincom um save everybody time Sandy you agree with that appreciate that yes said be it'd be good if we it good if the select board actually discussed the budget stuff too together yes okay I think it's definitely sorry on that note can I just ask if we can if it's possible to get all of I know I the the department heads have to get you their budgets by a certain date mik I I know you have time you want to have time to look that over and and and do whatever you need to do for for those but can we get all of that select board and fincom all up at once I know it's a lot but um as what's that once they're all submitted just yeah just like push it all over and let us have it all at once and and I me I think that that a peace meal is tough especially if we get it like on a Thursday or Friday and then God for they actually have plans on weekend which doesn't always happen but you know once in a while and have time to go um so it would be nice to kind of have a look at it you know and all in one big picture too be able to see it all at once I think it's possible to have a a peaceful and um you know a smooth budget process I think that when we created these joint meetings all those years ago it was to do just this because I think that when we're working together and we have open communication that's when we understand what everybody needs um and wants and so that's why I think that there's just been a lot of changes obviously and so I think that kind of joint meetings kind of fell by the wayside that's why it's important to have them we were doing them like quarterly you know when we first started this all those years ago um because I think that when there is understand standing there's a little bit more Grace with each other and we're not so quick to jump down each other's throats I think that we can lead by example and by listening to each other being kind that's always my famous thing as I head out of this term um but I think that it is possible to do that you know all together and and my hope is that we can actually do that work together and and just have a more peaceful budget process this year I agree and again this is one of the reasons why I want to call this meeting I mean I talked to Paula last year and Sandy and and they relay the frustration about how the budget process went last year and how much I keep saying it wasted time I mean everybody's time is valuable you're all Vol we're all volunteers here and um I'd like to waste as little time as possible if we can and hopefully that's that that'll work so I just want to plug again like to see the head count for each department for the last two years in this coming year or I will ask each one as a cool friend I second that all right anyone else I just wanted to ask Mike when is the or when are the uh department head budgets due to you what is what is that dat I can't if it's on here passed over it February 3rd I think feary yeah yeah says FY 26 budget request form is reest form is do in duplicate in duplicate for sand don't forget the first one we just just so we know on public record that's not the school the school is March 24th yeah are you sure hopefully all right anyone else I know I I'm sorry I promised a quick meeting and who told me I was wrong Dan 49 minutes like that started late I said take 15 when I walk take 15 here okay um anybody else last call all right excellent so um make a motion to adjourn second a motion a second I'll favor I the meeting second all in favor I and motion to adjourn the school Comm second all in favor I I thank you