Good evening. Um, welcome to the Monday, March 23rd, uh, Fincom meeting. I'll do a roll call, Gavin,
Tracy. >> Mhm. >> Sandy, Barney, Paula >> here, >> Paul. >> Yes. >> And myself. Um, Kevin will not make it tonight.
Zack May and Steve. >> Ah, Zach's on. >> Has entered the chat. >> All right. >> Good evening, Zack. >> All right. Uh, if we could stand for the pledge of allegiance.
>> [clears throat] >> I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
>> Only the church. >> Okay. Um, >> Jeff Zack >> just got a text from um um Brandon. He just had some kind of
family emergency. He's not going to make it. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Um I guess we will just jump into new business.
Mark. Thank you, Chair Rotundi. Uh, with us today, we have the privilege of, uh, some of the best, uh, town departments here, and I will, uh, briefly introduce them, and if you'd like to hear from the the department head or have any questions, uh, feel free. Uh, first up,
we have the assessors. So, their budget consists of three full-time employees. And uh we are just to clarify it's it's level service as far as personnel are
concerned and contractual obligations. Uh so here are uh step raises and stipens. the line items uh went up a a little bit,
you know, from 154,000 with the operating expenses to 159,000. Um that's in contracted services. Um seminars and conferences, dues, and memberships. Um
pretty straightforward. Uh one one thing that is of note with the assessors moving into next year, you'll remember that we approved the veteran and senior um additional abatement. So um that's going to increase the the
overlay account this year. We're getting exact numbers on that. Um or as best as we can approximate um might be around $100,000. Um, any uh anyone like to hear from our our chief assessor, Miss Denise Ellis?
She's been doing a lot of work, a lot of late nights doing all the abatements. [snorts] >> Any questions, >> Mr. Chair? >> Yes. >> Just a a small question. Um the $2,000 for telephone communications that we
haven't appropriated the last couple years. Is is there something new that came up with that? >> Um [clears throat] hello. Um so I did have a phone a few years ago and I wasn't using it that often. Um and we had to do some cuts in
my budget. So I thought that would be a good thing to cut. Um, but now that we're doing with the new town manager, now we're doing everything through cell phone and I don't want my personal phone being used. I rather have a one for the public. >> Perfect. Thank you.
>> That's why >> $2,000 for >> Well, because I'll need a phone and then I I was That's an estimate. I have to buy a phone and then whatever the monthly >> Okay. >> bill's going to be. I mean, that might be short. I don't really know. I I have no idea. That's my husband's job. We
always buy. [laughter] >> Um, is there a typo or am I not reading it right? The supporting page uh summation of salaries versus the
front page summation of salaries for personnel services. Um, there is a $1,000 clothing stipen that's listed under operating costs. >> Does that Does that >> Yep. Okay.
>> Does that match? So 244 to 243. >> Yep. Okay. Thank you. >> Uh, one more question, Mr. Chair. Um, the contracted services, I thought we added that last year. Um, took it out of a article and put it into your budget. Um, but I noticed that you've only spent
3,000 of that. Is that something that's coming due soon? >> Yes. So, this is something that usually happens in the spring. Um, [clears throat] they're working on the system, but now we'll start doing all our inspections, our cyclical inspections, um, personal property and commercial. Um, so those bills will
start coming in now. And once they start doing the inspections, they'll send the bill in. They'll build us ahead of time. Anyone else? >> Thank you. >> Thanks. Thanks. >> Thank you, Denise. Moving right on to
our finance department, the town accountant. Here we have two and a half employees. And you'll notice there are stipens, uh, step raises, and um, pretty
much consistent with previous years. Um, actually the annual audit is increasing. We've been getting a really good deal in the past, but it's time to pay the piper. And um our contract expired, so we're up to
market rate for annual audit services. Um other other costs have increased nominally nominally. Um no, no, they haven't. They've stayed the same. 3,170 for a total of $318,944.
So the annual audit we we were getting a deal or should we go out and bid? So the auditor has has been here for as I understand at least a decade maybe 15
or more years and they've been u performing well and giving us good reviews. I mean, it's always good to to shop around. I think best practice would be to issue an RFP, and I I think that's what the select board intends on doing.
In the private industry, it's required for publicly traded companies to to switch auditors every 5 years. In the public sector, there's no such requirement, but it is best practice. [clears throat] kind of only ask because $15,000
bump in one year is tad high. >> Anybody else? [clears throat] I'm going to take that as a no. Uh, moving right along. Board of Health
has two full-time employees. and is also responsible for the the landfill item. Again, just contractual uh and step raises. Uh the sanitary landfill actually is estimated to go up a little
this year from 8,000 to 8,400. That's according to an estimate from the the company that services the landfill. And that's uh a DP, a company that works well with D as I understand it. The operating lines are
pretty much in line. Uh just a couple increases, very nominal. And also the public health nurse has stayed consistent with $4,000 appropriation even though we don't have haven't had a public health nurse since
2024. Uh the operating expenses are the same. Never know when we'll need medical help. >> Mr. Chair >> Sandy. >> Um, can I ask um Chris Hunter if I know last year you lost a part-time position.
Um, just wondering if there's any impact from that that you felt. >> Uh, can you hear me? Okay. >> Yep. >> Okay, good. Uh essentially it kind of worked out in our favor a little bit that we joined a a regional group with
um five other towns where we're sharing a a food inspector um and a public health nurse. So between those two physicians with my office, they've given me the help I've been looking for. Um and we're able to keep
chugging along here. But I the issue we have with that is going to be next year the funding for um the grant funding for that group is going to end on FY27. >> So it it's currently funded via a grant. >> Yeah. So currently there's a public
health excellence grant that's paying for the um Bristol North Public Health Partners Group which is Eastern Mansfield, Foxboro, Sharon, Planeville, and Norton. Um and we all
share those two inspectors. We also have an epidemiologist uh on our staff as well. Um, and so like I said, it's to help the they're doing this to help the towns um
share as much resources as we can and to help uh put the manpower in place that we need to to get the job done. Um because all all the health departments are struggling with uh lack of help. >> [snorts] >> So, that's essentially what the program
is set up for and and it's the grant funding, like I said, is only good until FY27. Uh, then they're proposing that maybe the towns will help pay and keep it going at that point, but we'll have to see how that goes. >> And is is there a guesstimate, not
holding you to it, to what that cost will be next year? Uh the I would I mean it would I'm saying it's probably yeah I I would say you're probably
looking at 50,000 a town >> okay >> per town which isn't awful to have those three positions you know but >> next year >> but it they're part-time and that would be next year that's not the issue >> right
thank Anybody else? >> I'll take that as a >> No. And if [clears throat] I if I may, Mr. Chair. >> Yep. >> Um, so normally we would have submitted an article for the hazardous household
waste day. U, however, we intend to roll that into this department. Um we're just updating the quote and will in the final budget include um that line item for whatever we're being charged for that.
>> Historically that's been what 10 20 10 >> in the past it was 10. In the past it was 10,000. We have a little bit left in the account. So the request right now is right around seven but we're trying to get them to sharpen their pencils I
guess with the uh estimate. So, um, at this time we were just asking for the seven to cover the difference. Um, but in the past it was always a separate article in the town meeting >> and we're trying to put it into our operating budget.
>> Okay. >> Thank you, Chris. >> No problem. Next up, conservation. Um, two full-time employees. Um, same contractual step
adjustments and we have a few uh new items here. Uh we have some inflation for maintenance of conservation areas and looks like there's a couple of projects u mandated
dam inspections uh and a survey for shore way for the inspection and $7,800 for for this survey which as of now looks like it includes staking.
And if you want to know more about those projects, you'd have to ask uh John. So what's involved in that project? Good evening everyone. How's everyone
doing? Um, first I got to ask is how many of you guys are Boers? >> Boat. >> Yeah. How many how many of you guys like to go boating on the on the reservoir? >> You guys have motorboats? >> No. >> No. Okay. Well, a lot of people do. And one of the things that I've been looking
at is areas around town that the town currently owns that are whether they're in conservation ownership or whether they're in town ownership to see if we can actually facilitate a physical boat launch for this town. Juniver Beach has been used for eons. I think it's about time that this town actually has a
serviceable boat launch like Taton and other other communities. So part of this initiative is do a survey of the full entire property to get a sense as to whether, you know, because of wetland limitations and setbacks and things of that nature. We have to potentially get permits and things, but that's for us to
figure out later. More of it's just I got to get a feasibility study to see if we can physically get a parking lot and physical boat launch at Shoreway property, which is actually across from TPC behind those apartments. uh that property was as part of the project was
um when they put in the apartments was gifted to the conservation commission at the time. One of the acceptable uses for that property is we can actually facilitate a boat launch at that location. So me trying to think of potential locations for this. This is
you know another kind of avenue that I've been kind of seeing is what can we get use out of a lot of the properties that we have in conservation. Um, I think it's easy access from Mansfield A and we're just hoping that the survey can provide us enough information so that we can kind of move to the next
phase which is looking at grants and other uh avenues whether we go with um Division of Fish and Wildlife again like we did at 237 um Mansfield A to help them assist us with the project or if we get other kind of grants uh for
facilitating the the boat launch. So, >> John, 237 Mansfield Avenue is not able to be upgraded to do that or anything. >> No. Um, part of the discussion was that 237 um Mansfield A is limited to kayak and canoe um boating only and that's
because of the um the inabilities for us to get a trolling motor there through there. I guess it's very very uh shallow. So, that was one of the decisions that was made. That's why it had limited access. But this location that we're going to be looking at hopefully um further south which is kind
of near the north links um [snorts] that hopefully will be deep enough for us to at least that's what the baometric survey shows that we have uh it's deep enough to facilitate um motorboats. So [clears throat and cough]
>> Mr. Chair >> Oh, go ahead. >> I think we want to say the same thing. Um, Mr. Chair, through you. Um, on we received a report from James last fall regarding some monies that were allocated through town meeting articles
over the years that there's money still sitting in accounts and you actually have quite a bit. So, I didn't know if you were aware of it and if you're not, I can go through them and if you are, if you want to just speak to >> Sure. Go ahead. >> What the plan is for some of these accounts. >> Sure. Go ahead.
>> Okay. So, um, the first one I see here was money is allocated in the town meeting in 2017 for Charlie Dam repairs, $44,649.92. >> Is that just still ongoing? And >> well, I guess the question is, um, it's kind of a reserved nest egg for us
because if we don't have money to facilitate any immediate repairs to the dams, we're basically up up the creek without a paddle. Um, so I think it's best for us to have that shity on hand as a town. Uh because to my knowledge, I don't know if we have any um $50,000
lying around for either dam uh in our bank accounts um to just basically go to those kind of emergency repairs if they're required. >> Right. Have you used it since 2017? Have you dipped into that? >> So we we have not, but I actually have uh [clears throat] PAR engineers are
looking at obtaining grant money that we're going to actually have to do repairs to the dam soon. Um, so in in addition to that money, I'm hoping to get more money so that way we can actually um do more repairs to the dams. Um, this this money that's here is I
would say it's best to I don't want to call it a rainy day fund, but what I want to call it is more so a fund where if we have to use it, we have it. Um, it's stored away and it's for emergency purposes. That's how I'm looking at it. >> Okay. Um, if we don't have it, then I
don't know what sort of funds we can dip into uh to do the repairs if we have a breach or if we have any sort of issues. I have to go back in front of town meeting, but >> that's not going to happen because >> by then all all the residents would be washed out and we'd be dealing with lawsuits and all that other stuff when
we have that money on hand. So, I think it's best to kind of have that money stored away. >> Okay, fair. Um, and then there's several accounts for the Camp Edith Reed, >> correct? Actually, I have some information if you want to hear about that. >> Yes. >> So, with all the with all the um I guess
discussions with Edith 3, obviously, you know, it was the Girl Scouts campground. Um we actually have a a I guess a property profile on our website. If anybody wants to click on it, they can go to the conservation commission. Um but there's also a survey there and it asks at the end and it asks what we want
to see done with the property. We've had one person give a response so far. So, I would ask the public who are listening to this tonight, um, to provide us some information if you can, whether they're on the finance committee or in the audience or at home watching this. Um, please, uh, let us know what you would
like with that property. Um, as far as I'm looking at it from my own perspective, I'm looking at things that could be low cost, low maintenance, have community involvement, uh, things that could potentially help the community grow as a whole. Um, one of the things that I was thinking about was trying to
facilitate a community garden at the location. It's one of the things that we're allowed to do at the um, Edith Reed because it is under a self-help grant. So, there are limitations where we can only use it for passive recreation and it's an open field and part of that is if it's an open field,
we can actually use it and convert it to a community garden. So, I've looked at that. um we could potentially get 15 to 20 plots of community garden space um there. It's just if we're going to do this, I need a community and backing. Um so if there's anybody out there that
wants to help and move forward with the community garden potential um aspect of it, it would be near the parking lot near the front. Um and it where the old pool used to be. Uh that would be another endeavor that I would look at if I ever wanted to expand the facility,
which is this money that potentially is sitting there. >> Yeah, it's almost $55,000. I just added >> So the thing is if I since the pool was demoed basically and p punched a hole into um by my predecessor and the pool is no longer in service, I can't build a
new pool there. So, I'd have to remove the pool, potentially remove the um the uh I guess it's the toilets and the facilities that are there currently that were servicing the pool. And I'd have to um have somebody come in and remove all
that. I don't know how much that would cost, but I know it wouldn't be a wouldn't be cheap. Um but it would be able to I potentially could facilitate the extension of this community garden at the location. >> Are those bathrooms on a septic? And why wouldn't you want to keep bathrooms for your facility? I mean, there is the
possibility of of of opening the bathrooms. That's true. There is that. Um there's also the um the current situation where I've turned off the water there, so I'd have to reservice it and everything like that. So, um and I probably have to redo those bathrooms.
They've been left dormant for a while, um or out of service. Uh I have to take a look at them, see how what the condition is. Um a lot of the facilities there are in kind of poor condition. I haven't been really up to date and maintaining them like our other uh
properties here in in town like um Ever Leonard which has gone through a couple renditions that's in probably the better shape of all our facilities. Um but there are other opportunities and and like I say to everybody is that if if somebody wants to you know think of
ideas or if somebody has ideas that they want to like I guess formulate or provide us you know I'm here to listen. So, if you have any ideas, you know, I'm here to listen. But I think the community garden idea is something that's low maintenance, low cost, something that we can get off the ground
running. Um, one of our other properties that adjacent to this is Rose Farm and we actually are renting that property to a local farmer who is paying the town to use the land. Um, but he's growing produce for the local community. So, Rose Farm was dormant like Edith Reed was. there wasn't really a use, but
we've found a way to make uh make it a use for not just the town, but for this this local farmer. So, we're trying we're trying here. You know, I'm just saying we're trying. >> Sorry. You said you're renting out that space. >> Yes. >> What is that money being used for when it comes in? >> That's a good question. It's going to
the general fund. So, um it's $1,000 a year and that that money is going to the general fund. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. Any other questions? >> Mr. Chair, >> Zack,
>> so we bought this property years ago and then we had heard that we were going to convert it into a campground and then we allocated money to fix the building and then we were going to use it as rentals and nothing's happened with it. It's been, as far as I'm concerned, pretty
much abandoned uh over the years. What was originally? Why did we originally buy it and what was the original intention? I mean, we've done nothing with it since we bought it. >> I I would ask anyone on the board that was there at the time.
>> Um I I think you summed it up, Zach. We were we were told it was going to be cheap money to take it and then we were going to use it to rent it out. and that
I don't think we did any there was no real thought to the cost of it or the annual maintenance of it. So, uh anybody who was sitting on this board, I
I don't think it was a unanimous vote to say, "Yeah, this is a good idea." But that's my recollection of what happened. Mr. Chair, I vaguely remember the conversation. I think it was Jen who was director at the time and I think
that we were supposed to be um repairing it and then potentially renting it out for like even business retreats. I remember that being mentioned and y >> u maybe scout troops and different activities and clubs and things that would potentially be bringing in revenue
[snorts] >> and so far nothing. >> So, Mr. Chairman, let me ask, what are the options if the town doesn't have the money or doesn't want to invest in this or put the time and effort into it? What are the options to do with that land?
Can it be sold? Can it >> No, it can't be sold. >> What What are the options? Turn it over to the state. Something >> you can turn it over to the state, but you basically spent money already for the property. So, I mean, you're just I mean, if you give it back to the state, they don't they don't have to pay you.
>> Abandoned property at this point, >> Mr. J. It's a disgrace to be honest with you. >> Yep. >> I will say in John's defense that he's done a really great job making it into trails that are walkable now. A lot of
them. Some of that got short circuited by a neighbor, but other than that, it's it's a beautiful place. You can actually walk from there right out to uh I believe the Y camp still if it's not too wet. >> I mean, we've we've >> bridge projects. We had >> we've enhanced our we've enhanced our
our abilities with having a partnership with the YMCA. I mean, I don't know. I wasn't here. I apologize. I wasn't here, so I don't know what the conversations that you may have had with Jennifer Carino about the property. Nothing against her or anything, but I'm not a park manager. I'm not That's not my job.
I I apologize for that, but it's not what I took this job for. My job is to be the conservation director and my job is to provide um amenities for the public as part of the open space director. That's what I'm doing. Um you know, for me to have a full-time
management of Edith Reed as as a function hall or whatever sort of kind of um you know, facility manager. That's not not my role and responsibilities. Um, you know, there are other towns that have similar avenues of this that h actually have dedicated land use
managers that their job and responsibility is to actually do these sort of things. Um, if that's something we turn to parks and wreck, >> sorry, sorry, Zach. >> So, why can't we turn it over to parks and wreck? >> Well, the the properties in the
conservation commission's uh ownership rights. >> Okay. So, how do we get it transferred? You can't. It's for It's for passive recreation only. Parks and wreck is for active recreation. >> But I will say on any given day, John,
on any given day, there's a a ton of cars parked there for people that are passively walking around on a property and uh and enjoying it. So, I don't think it's a a um a valid statement to say nothing's going on there because it has. You've done a nice job partnership
with the schools making the bridges and stuff. We we also have an American chestnut um restoration uh initiative happening over at EDA 3 too where this individual from Attboro is trying to plant American chestnuts there and you might see the cages over there if you go
walk through there. That is the passive recreation use. We're trying to basically hit on every passive recreational use that we can. Um you know part of the challenges are that I did the numbers. I did the numbers. I looked at things. I said, "If we had one rental a week, every week for $100, the
amount of revenue that is generated from that facility is not going to outweigh or it's going to you're basically going to break even on the cost to operate and maintain that property moving forward." So, what I did was I just canceled everything. I cut off all all the services that were going to Edith Reed
because, you know, it was costing me about I I don't know how much it was costing. I can't I have the numbers, but I can't look at them right now. Um but for me to facilitate um operating operating cost for that whole entire um property didn't outweigh the benefit.
There was no cost um I guess initiative that would have brought money back to the town as part of this. Um typically when I look at things I say okay is this is this going to make the town money? Is this worth the time and investment to do that? This was not one of them to operate and open the lodge. I know that
some people are not going to like to hear that, but for instance, for me to maintain it and operate it for having it functions and things of that nature, that's what it would be. And I I did a I did a very conservative approach where I had one one rental every week. And that's being generous because I don't
know if we would get one rental a week. >> It haven't been in the building when we took it over. It it was in dire need of work when we took >> It was and and she she did a great job in improving that facility. I will say that. um is it's in a definitely a better a lot better shape now than it
ever was. So, >> Mr. Chair, Zach, I don't expect John you to run that as a business. The town took it over. If the town took it over, they should invest some money. It should not be a business
where you're looking to generate revenue out of it. I mean, that's not I I don't believe that was the intention of picking it up. If the town can't afford to do something with it and to invest some money into it and to make it a passive recreational facility, then the town should find ways to exit it
completely. I mean, it should not be everything is not a business. Parks and Rec shouldn't be in business. They should be investments in the community that, you know, that the taxpayers make to improve their quality of life. So, you know, I don't live by that premise that, you know, well, it wasn't generating any money, so it's not
supposed to generate any money. >> [clears throat] >> Mr. Chair, >> Gavin, >> Zack, uh, [laughter and snorts] I wasn't here for any of this, so I don't know any of this history, but earlier you were saying that the whole story was that it was going to be a
profit driving campground or something. >> That was what they put in front of us way back in the day, Gavin. That wasn't me saying that. That's what we were told. No, I know. But like [snorts] turns out that's not true. We're more
restricted than we expected. It sounds like I mean I hear you on maybe exiting. Like we obviously don't have money to to to subsidize something there. So I guess I mean maybe you're right. The exiting is the only option. I just kind
of don't I don't know if it's if it's worth driving this point home every every year about this property that we have like that you know John has no money to do anything with. I just I I don't know. It's I mean >> maybe it's something to bring in front of the select board cuz I hear you if you want something done with the land
but also if it's I mean it sounds like passive recreation is not sexy but trees are dying because of climate change so some sort of chestnut project sounds great. Um, you know, community garden could be great for people who don't. I mean, I got an acre of land and I could
barely grow on it with the amount of trees I have. So, you know, shoot, I might take take uh take take the take that offer. So, I I mean, I don't know. >> I just think that these things are worthwhile. >> Yeah. I I I I think he's doing what he
can. I I don't know what we expect here. Unless you want to give the land away and then what happens? The state I mean, is the state going to do something with it? >> Paul, >> no. I'm ranting here so I'll shush. >> Mr. Chair, John. >> Yeah. I mean, this is not directed to to to John by any stretch imagination. It's
been going on forever since we got it. I mean, we we took the land without a plan, you know, in my view um to do something with it, >> but you know, I think it is a select board issue and they should decide what they're going to do with it. >> John, this is no different than all the other conservation properties around
town that you're hiking on. >> That's correct. One one of our >> just had a building on it. It's one of our 231 properties that we currently own here in town. >> And that's the only difference is it has a building. So people is article 97 land just so we're clear.
>> Yeah. >> I don't think you have a choice of doing much with it. >> I don't have much options, but I'm doing with what I can. So >> So what would the annual maintenance be just on that property? And is it more
because it has a building? So you're talking with having it open and functioning with electricity >> just as it is now >> as it currently is. The only thing that I worry about is cutting the grounds and maintaining it so that way the dog
walkers and everybody that's using that facility can enjoy it as a basically a place of of of um zen, you know, a place where they can go and take their dogs. Um they can go and use the trails that are out back, the ones that we
reconfigured. Um, yes, the lodge is there, but you know, it's not it's not open to the public public as of right now. >> Is is this the one you said the [clears throat] boiler the water heater wasn't functioning? >> Yeah, I have to replace the water heater, but the accounts that I currently have could facilitate replacing that. So, I'm not worried
about that. >> Mr. Chair, I just want to understand like uh where the money is coming from for like the maintenance of the trails and things. Are you spending out of these like Camp Edith repairs accounts for for that for the annual maintenance of it or is it part of your operating
budget? >> So I currently have a maintenance of conservation areas account and I also have a Camp Beth Reed maintenance conservation areas account. Um, one of them is
one of them is currently I haven't touched yet because I wasn't entirely sure what we were going to do with it. Um, that might actually go to the community gardens if I can use it. I just have to talk to the town manager about that. Um, because the numbers do
jive with what we're looking for an estimate for putting in the community gardens. That's about $11,000. Um, and then the other account that I have is for the maintenance of all 231 properties that we currently own, but some of them are not accessible and I haven't been to them because they're in
the middle of the swamp. So, >> um, but you have been spending down these Camp Edith repairs accounts that the monies that were allocated through town meeting articles. >> These some of them have been drawn down. Um, not all of them because I think some
of them were supposed to deal with the lodge per se. Okay. >> Um, it's also contingent upon what the public are looking for. Like I said, I mean, I'm I'm only here because I can think of lowcost initiatives that aren't going to cost the town money. Um, one of them is the community gardens. I think
if we get a big showing of people that are interested that are going to contribute and want to contribute to building these uh for the community, for them to use, but also for the community to use. I think that's a good initiative, a good camaraderie kind of opportunity that will provide the community that kind of,
>> you know, joint partnership. Um, but it's also them being committed to it because once you sign up for it, you basically are you're in it for the long haul, I want to say. Um, so anyone that's interested, be ready because we're going to put you to work. Um, but
then secondly is that if there are some people that are still interested in using the lodge, you know, that is an opportunity still. It's just I need to have a plan laid out. >> So, people need to fill out the survey online. >> It'd be great if you could fill out the
survey [laughter] because then, for instance, I could get two groups, one for the community garden and then one for the lodge. And I just need community help >> volunteers to run it. Well, not vol. No. Well, hey, do you want you want to you want to plan? [laughter]
>> Sounds like you volunteered. >> Mom always. >> Yeah. My concern really is just making sure that, you know, these funds that were allocated, some of them, you know, 9 years ago that they're just getting used and they're going to be used. I think I'm going I'm going to give the
opportunity to the public to let me know what they want and then next year when we circumvent the wheel on this um we'll have a better idea as to whether um whether we can give those back to the town. >> Okay. >> So, I'm going to let everybody that's
out here put the word out. If you want those funds to go to good use, >> then one final comment. Are you going to let uh the community gardens people pump from the river? >> What >> you going to pump? I'm going to I'm going to have water. Hopefully hopefully uh the new DPW director lets me tap in
for free. That's the goal. >> Anybody else? >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Thank you. Uh, next up, planning board. So, there's two full-time employees in the planning board. Uh, they they support the work of the the planning
board, the zoning board of appeals, uh, which has the annual assessment for uh, Southeast Regional Planning. Uh that's up a little bit, $4,277, an estimated 2.5 increase as that has
been the pattern over the past few years. Um and there's a new Taco Bell coming to town. Uh, any questions of our town planner? I'm not seeing any. I'm not hearing any.
>> It's an easy night, Paul. >> I'm trying to amend any bylaws. So, uh, >> you didn't get a no vote at least, right? >> [laughter] >> Ouch. >> Ouch, >> man. [cough and clears throat]
Thank you, Paul. Um, moving on to our um our our library department. Um, so we're very excited that our li library recently became accredited for the first time in in quite some time. You'll find a bunch of uh handouts here in your
packet. And I know Amanda's excited and I'm excited for her at all the great things happening with collaboration with the senior center, with park and wreck, with all the other departments. I just I see Amanda everywhere around town and couldn't be more happy to support the
awesome work she's doing at the library. I'm anticipating some questions because our budget's a little weird. It's a little different than the other departments. >> Right. So, so the school department and the library department are the two departments that we don't give them line
items. We give them a flat appropriation and their board of trustees and the school committee allocates that. So we've kept it at a sufficient level at the same level it was last year to retain accreditation
and keep the the library level service >> at h how many hours is accreditation? >> 50 hours. 50 out and I know it's a split budget. Are there
ongoing building issues? >> Oh, yes. [laughter] So, um, just to back up a little bit, our budget is roughly 80% municipal. Uh, and what we've done is allocate our most fixed costs to that side of the budget.
So, salaries, um, our sales network membership, and the materials expenditure that's needed as part of the state requirements. Um, the other costs, while only, you know, 20% of the budget, are often variable. Utilities, building repair and maintenance, landscaping, all
that kind of stuff. Um, so what we try to do is spend every bit of that money as carefully as possible. Um, whether the money comes from the trust or the friends or the public or municipal funding, um, it all has to be
spent wisely. So, I have to say, you know, in the past couple of months, I've been able to meet with the DPW director. We've talked about ways to save money on on building repairs and maintenance. Um, we've been able to prepare a 10-year capital improvement plan that'll help us
get ahead of some of these issues before they become emergencies. Um, and we're really looking at how much are we spending on maintenance of certain things like the HVAC and how can we get ahead of that so that we're not just pouring money out on those kinds of things. >> Mr. Chair, Amanda, I just echo what the
town manager said. Congratulations on finally [laughter] reaching certification and uh, God willing, we'll be able to keep you there for years to come. >> Thank you. Yes, I have to say it's a team effort and and I just carried the baton over the finish line. Um, but it it's a really big accomplishment for for
the town for the town to finally have all the state requirements being met. We're getting a little more in state uh aid this year and next. Um, because of that certification and that helps keep up with the cost of utilities, the cost
of building repair. Um, we are so grateful to the town, to the finance committee for giving us the budget that we needed to do that. Um, it was a long time coming. We kind of incrementally moved our way back up, but being there now, we have so much momentum. Morale is
so high, and we're just excited to be able to continue to offer these core services to everybody. >> Do do you have a um a you don't have a turn style that actually checks people in and out. Do you have a rough idea how many card holding members you have and how many people daily visit?
>> Yes. So we have roughly I think uh 8 to 10,000 card holders. You have to be at least 5 years old. So we have 0 to 5 age patrons that come to our baby time. Um so they don't count in that number. But we actually do have a people counter a little uh you know at the front door.
And last year we had over 66,000 visitors. Um 10,000 people attended programs uh all ages. our babies, our we call them pre-walkers or lapsitters, um all the way up to our seniors. We have programs for everyone. We have materials
for everyone. Anyone can come and get help with a resume, filling out a form on a government website, anything that people need. Um I I feel that the purpose of the library is to affirm and uplift everyone that walks through the door. So when people walk through the door, they're treated with dignity and
respect. And whatever question or concern or thing that they're trying to do, we're here to help them. and to support them doing that. >> Well said. >> Thank you. [laughter] >> Check a lot of books and use computers and the staff is very nice.
>> Um and you know it's this is going to be a tough budget year and we want to acknowledge that. We know that. Um but we do know that when times are tough, libraries use increases. People need it more. People need more free programming,
safe places to go, places to get help with resumes and job applications. Um, and we're prepared for that. If we can have the budget that we need to keep open the 50 hours, my staff is prepared to deal with an increase in in uh demand for services.
>> Anybody else? Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Amanda. Uh, so that's that's it. A lot of literature on the library, >> pun intended.
Uh, >> tree warden. >> Next up, >> tree warden >> is the tree warden. Uh so that's budgeted for the same as it was this year. Uh in fact everything on this page uh there's actually a slight
increase to unemployment. Uh so the tree warden is is a stipen. Um I believe we're we're currently working the DPW is on getting someone a certified arborist. It's actually a
course you take that's uh $5,000. So, um, if we can find $5,000, we'll we'll certify someone as an arborist. Uh, the reserve fund, we have not yet dipped into it this year. Um, I expect
to bring a request to the the committee in the next few weeks. Um, there are a couple counts that are running low. One of them actually is unemployment and uh the other one I believe is either
maintenance or it but um but I'll bring that back. Um, so I I would suggest leaving the reserve at a at a healthy amount just because as a town we have the flexibility to only meet twice per year and it's really convenient to be
able to have the finance committee in case of emergency be able to to allocate funds uh legal services uh level funded. We're using the majority of that this year. We're we're trying to keep uh union negotiations in house and use counsel to
a minimum. We have kept held back on using council for departments and boards and committees a little bit. Um, since there's a bit of legal expertise in in town hall,
uh, unemployments, we've actually had a few people on unemployment this year. And just just to be on the safe side, we recommend that at 100. >> Mr. Chair Mark, I have a quick question about um
monies that was allocated in a town meeting in uh the spring of 2018 for the legal budget. There's 10,000 still sitting in there that was allocated for chapter 40b legal funds. I don't know if that's going to be >> that's news to me. So that's a a special
purpose appropriation 10,4B. >> Yeah. But if it's not needed or can't we that get turned back >> over I think right there's a bigger remote >> appropriated >> probably. >> Yeah because >> I wasn't around back then. >> Currently we're not subject to 40b because we're 10.02 affordable housing.
That's down from 10.04 a few months ago. >> Yeah. This was again as of uh the fall when James sent us this report. So I don't know if it's still in there but yeah 10,000 >> in that account. >> Um sure. Do do you have any like a account number or I I can look into it and
>> I can forward you this spreadsheet that he sent. >> Take a picture of it. >> Okay, that >> has all the account numbers. Yeah, I'll send that to you. >> Off the top of my head, I I can't think of a use for it. So, I will either think of a use for it or I'll put it on the the um one of the articles to send in
the appropriation. >> Right. Right. Yeah. >> Mr. Um to to Paula's point, yeah, I have the same print out the same thing printed out. There's there's things like from, you know, 2014, 2010. Um if if I don't know if if you've had a chance to look
through all this and see um there's quite a few numbers that are just kind of sitting there, not not being haven't been used. >> Yeah. Happy to look at it. I don't know what you have in front of you, but that's I'm very interested. >> This is the most excited I've seen you since [laughter] your new your time with
us. money there. >> Gold and then their hills. >> After budget season's over, I plan to comb through all the accounts and then mine for gold. >> There you go. >> Might find some nickel.
>> Okay. >> We are we on with the chair's permission on to warrant articles. Uh, looks like this one is is up again. This time with a chapter 90 letter attached to the the packet.
And this year's appropriation is about $100,000 greater than last year's for a total of $860,247 and change. >> Which number was that? >> Uh, number two. >> Number two.
for those following along at home. And >> this is a a followup from last week. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, we have to >> vote to reconsider it. >> Inclined to reconsider. >> Mr. Chair,
>> yes. Gavin, >> can I I would like to make a motion to reconsider article two regarding the uh acceptance of chapter n chapter 90 funds. >> Second that. >> I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion?
>> This is just to talk about it, right? Talk about talking about it. >> Yep. >> Open it back up. >> And my reason being just cuz I think we had some procedural snafers last time and we can vote more comfortably hopefully this week. >> So to be clear to be clear, I think a motion for reconsideration has come from
somebody that the affirmative. >> So I'll make the motion because I did vote for it originally. I thought that was the >> Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know there were rules about it. >> No, I don't I >> I also voted for it though, so it's fine. >> Yeah, I think if anything, it's the opposite. >> Person who voted against it is supposed
to >> It's a prevailing uh >> but I don't think I I don't know that we've ever followed that. >> Yeah, but well, yeah, I'm not sure. >> Okay, so we have a motion, we have a second. I'm not hearing any further
discussion, so I'll go to the roll call. Uh, Zach, >> yes. >> Gavin, >> yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Sandy, >> yes. >> Bonnie, >> yes. >> Paula, >> yes.
>> Paul, >> yes. >> I to him a yes. So, that's unanimous. And I'll bring it back for a double header and make a motion to recommend article 2 regarding the acceptance of chapter 90 funds in the amount of $860,000
$860 $247,000. I can't read $860,247 and 73. >> Second. >> Thank you. >> I understand why this is so hard when you guys do it. Jeez, it's like you can't read numbers all of a sudden.
[laughter] Hey, >> I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? >> Hearing none. I'll go to the vote. Zach, >> yes.
>> Gavin, >> yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Andy, >> yes. >> Bonnie, >> yes. >> Paula, >> yes. >> Paul, >> yes. >> Ita, yes. That's unanimous. Sweet. >> Um, thank you, Mr. Chair. Next up, we
have prior year unpaid bills, and we actually have not received any. So, um, I'm prepared to withdraw that or or you can make a motion to to remove it. Uh, whatever the committee's pleasure, >> we just take no action.
>> Um, >> you vote to take no action. We we can vote to take no action or we just >> we can just reconsider it later if something comes up before the meeting. >> I mean they they all have had multiple deadlines, but I mean you never know what you're going to find.
>> We do know >> for number four. >> Yeah, >> that's that's for number four. Yes. >> Make a motion that we take no action on uh number four. >> Second. I have a motion and a second for no
action on article four. >> Any further discussion? >> Yes. I want to take >> hearing none. Zach, >> yes. >> Gavin, >> yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Sandy, >> yes.
>> Barney, >> yes. >> Paula, >> yes. >> Paul, >> yes. >> I assume a yes. That is unanimous. >> No. action 8 to zero. And next up, acceptance of chapter 59, section 59A.
So, this law and ordinance um would provide for the ability of the town to negotiate and wave past due taxes with the condition that there's environmental
cleanup performed at the property. So, this is very specific for brownfields property sites. And ordinarily, there's either a EPA or a state grant that makes this possible. They're prohibitively expensive, hundreds of thousands if not
millions of dollars. And so there's just a couple properties that that this could be used for. And in my opinion, this would provide a tool in in our toolbox to help the environment, to encourage
development, and get the get this money back on the tax roll because I mean, there are hundreds of thousands just sitting there and nobody's paying taxes. Until the pollution's cleaned up and until we have tools to do something like this, it's just gonna continue sitting
there. How many properties do we think this entails, encompasses? >> So, the one that comes to mind is the old Reed and Barton. Uh, which I mean, I
believe it's approximately $450,000. That's in unpaid real estate taxes. Mhm. >> I understand that property is under new ownership and the owner is speaking with the EPA and so far discussions have been
favorable. Um and if if we have this tool then we may be able to to get something accomplished. Um I can't speak to other properties but I can say that wouldn't be unchecked. Whatever
negotiation we make with these property owners would have to be ratified by the select board. So there would be a an additional check and balance. >> Mr. Chair, sorry. >> Reeden Barton being the >> Elvis Street
down the street there. >> 47 Elm. That's correct. >> Has an owner now. Miss Anne Brimsley is the owner of record as of a couple months ago. >> Okay.
>> Good to hear. >> Bought bought a $450,000 tax debt for a dollar. So, not to get off track here, the people who who wanted to do all this stuff are no
longer involved. There's discussions involving those people and the way I'm approaching it is believe it when I see it. uh as I understand those discussions have been
in process for a number of years. So if they're prepared to move forward or if someone else is prepared to move forward, I mean it would have to be the owner of record, >> right? >> Because the town's not taking that liability, >> right? Okay, [clears throat]
>> Mr. Chair. >> Yes. >> Um Mark, what would be a potential downside to not doing this? Like like I Yeah. What would be to to doing it? Yeah. No. Yeah. To doing it. What would be a downside? Sorry. >> To accepting uh this law. I mean,
someone may may argue that, you know, they owe the taxes, they have to pay them, but I I don't see that being a realistic downside because no one will pay it unless they can get it cleaned up. So, I >> Okay. >> I don't see a downside. >> Okay. Cool.
just just the property taxes if there's other bills like water department and all that or is that everything all inclusive? >> Um, >> good question. The title says local taxes. Reading through the law real quick,
>> state tax obligations, >> the water tax obligations. >> I I would say it it would include those leans because after a year, the water and sewer leans typically become part of the real estate tax. Sorry, one more question. Um, are there
other towns that do this that wave the taxes for brownfields? >> North Attabro recently accepted this a few months ago. Zach. [laughter] >> So Mark, help me uh understand
uh the legalities of what transpired over there. This person buys a contaminated property for a dollar that has a half a million dollar tax lean for
just to round up here. Um, and we have no legal recourse. Why wouldn't we just I understand what you're trying to do, but putting that aside for a second. What is our recourse if somebody I know if I bought a
property and had all this problems, you wouldn't come after me immediately? I I mean, as far as I know, we're not in the environmental enforcement business. Um, no, you're in
the tax collection business, though. So, you have a person that is an owner of this property that owes you a half a million dollars. What are you going to do about it? Shy of what you're trying to do here? >> I mean, our our option is to take the property in tax title and own it, but I'm hesitant to do that. We'd have to
file in land court, go through the process a year later, all the notices, and then we would take the property. But here, we don't want to take the property. >> No, I understand that. But that's the only recourse. You couldn't go after
this p this personally. Um, see, it doesn't it doesn't appear to be in a trust or an LLC or something. You couldn't go after this person's assets personally for the tax le. I'm not a lawyer here. I'm just asking. >> I mean, anyone can sue anyone for
anything. Um, but but are they going to win? No, I don't I don't think that's a winnable case. >> I think it was actually >> even this person voluntarily took this property over. >> Well, I I >> I haven't seen the deed. I'm I'm
guessing this person is is pretty savvy and put the deed in a in the name of a trust or an LLC. So, cool. for us to even get the money to clean up the part of the building that was a a severe hazard and stuff, I think was problematic because we don't own it. The
people that own it have abandoned it. So, it was an issue even back then. So, this gets it potentially back on the tax roles producing money in a in a safe site going forward. So, I don't see any downside to passing this. Well, I I'll I'll play
devil's advocate and and join Zach that this individual knowingly just entered into a dollar contract, but a contract nonetheless to purchase the property
knowing that it was contaminated. So then why is there no ability to go after them? >> Well, this person's not the bad actor. The bad actor is the people that skipped town. >> I I get that. But
you you knowingly entered into something knowing that it was contaminated. So you you knew that you potentially are on the hook to clean it up. So, I mean, it's
it's a risk. I Sure. Well, I I'm I'm not even thinking of it as a risk. I'm I'm thinking it of it as a that's the greatest deal in town. >> Mhm. >> To pay a buck and and just sit back and
go, "Huh, watch them squirm and and and vote this in and then I'm scot-free now >> to spend a million dollars cleaning the site." So, so there is another option actually um it's rarely used. We used it um one time with a an abandoned mill in
another uh city where I was where we >> we took the million-doll tax title and auctioned it off. So, the town didn't become the owner. We had a public auction and sold the title to someone
else. So, that's an option if you have someone interested in the property. And I would suggest I hope this owner um would be willing to work with us and has suggested that if if we accept this, then it might make a difference. I mean, there's really no
downside. If if it if we don't if we accept this, don't make a deal, then either she does something anyway, or I suppose we could go down the the hole of taking it and auction auctioning it to
someone else and and give them a chance. It would be huge if we can get a site cleaned up and put back on the tax roles. I I guess my only concern is that you vote something like this in
and then people are the thought process is why are we going to fight it? We have this you know mechanism just let it go this way. So
>> Mr. share. >> Yes. >> But isn't the alternative that Well, this person bought this for a dollar, but they also are in talks with the EPA. It's going to cost them her, this person money. I'm assuming they're going to
work with the EPA to try to get as many grants and as many ways to supplement whatever it's going to cost. But it's not going to cost zero dollars to remediate this land to this person that owns it. So rather than paying 450 that what they're trying to do it sounds
like is be a baited the 450,000 so that they can spend the money they or a portion uh I was not entering into any contracts there um and then spend their money in accordance with whatever the EPA is saying is required and getting lots [clears throat] of grants with the
state and maybe fally or however that works. I'm not an attorney either, but um to then use money to clean it up so that it is now clean, which is a benefit to the town and is salailable or developable for the person that owns it.
So, it ends up being a win-win in the end. In theory, it's not without risk, but in theory, that's where the money is going to be spent, and this person is in in essence agreeing to do that because they've assumed the property. They wouldn't want to just own it for a
dollar and sit there with it. They want to develop it. >> Sure. >> They just don't want to pay the back taxes. >> It's going to cost I mean, I'm not an environmental expert, but at least a million dollars. >> So, they're looking to make that back once they've done that.
I believe it's mostly above ground, but it's all aspestous. That whole remaining building that's there, I believe, is >> Mr. Chair, >> was that Zach? >> Yeah. So, is the abatement contingent
that the property is cleaned up? because you know the last thing you'd want is I'm going to give you 450,000 or whatever that number is and then uh and then uh well we found that it's going to cost 2 million. We're not doing anything with it.
>> Uh yes, that's right. That that would be part of the deal. >> Okay, >> Mr. Um >> Gavin, >> I looked up on our GIS website, which uh
is not binding. The warning tells you all the time, but usually pretty accurate. And uh it is owned by a corporation. So, as far as going after them, I'm sure they would just declare bankruptcy, and that would be that and the thing would continue to sit there. So, um as far as 47 Elm goes, that
person is not personally liable. It doesn't look like I mean obviously I haven't read their articles of incorporation or whatever. I'm not a lawyer, but >> it's not it's not that person's name that owns it. So, um I so I think I'm I'm of the opinion that I mean when I
look at the outcome that I want for that property, it's for it to be cleaned up and not be an eyesore, right? We're not getting we're not making anything on it now. It's been there for 15 20 years like this, right? So, I don't know. I feel like the
the time for anybody to bid on it, they would have come in here and tried to get involved in in the meantime. So, I do I do share the kind of sucks feeling. Excuse me.
>> Sorry. I'm I'm not sure >> your negative feeling about it. dollar and this weird >> I'm not sure I I have the negative feeling. I have the gee, we've been down this road before feeling. >> Mr. Chair, it does say in the required
agreement terms uh 1645 that conditions related to environmental cleanup including compliance with Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection requirements. So, it's making, as to Zach's question, it's making the environmental cleanup part of the
agreement to abate the taxes so that there is that win-win. Something is finally happening with a property that has been an isore for 20 years. Otherwise, they don't get an abatement on the taxes. >> It is sitting on an active river that's
continually leeching asbestous and other chemicals into the environment. So, >> is there a time frame for that though? How much time do we give them before we >> let them as long as they're continually making good faith efforts and progress?
>> I wouldn't pull the rug out from under them if they're moving forward. >> No, [snorts] >> Mr. Chair. >> Um, hold on a second. >> Someone come up. Oh. Peter was coming up.
>> How do you define meaningful progress? >> So, so the agreement would probably have a a specified time where they would need to remediate it. It these are done in phases. So, you do the phase one within 3 months, the phase two the next 6
months, and then the phase three probably 6 months to a year. And that's the phase three. That's where you take out the heavily contaminated soil to whatever depth the professionals, you know, advise. And if at any point the
they they lose state or federal funding, then that would or if they stop construction um and we wouldn't sign off the lean until >> the work is complete. So >> would negate the agreement if they don't
meet the requirements. Devil's in the details. >> Yeah, >> says the banker. Says the banker. >> Any other discussion? Mr. Chair, make a motion we accept
article 20, the acceptance of GL uh chapter 59, section 59A, abatement for continued environmental cleanup as presented. Second >> if if I may, Mr. Chair. >> Yep. >> And then and this was amended on the uh
town meeting article list. So I would uh if the maker of the motion would add and adopt bylaw chapter 164, Brownfield's tax abatement agreements uh to that motion um because that's required under this this law. >> So moved.
Second. So I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion hearing? None. Zach, >> yes. >> Gavin, >> yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Sandy, >> yes. >> Bonnie, >> yes.
>> Paula, >> yes. >> Paul, >> yes. >> I too am a reluctant. Yes. [laughter] >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Yes. And last but not least is a red line.
And uh hopefully this is you have this in your packet. This is amending the sewer connection bylaw section 163-8 to remove the mandatory 5-year tie-in,
[clears throat] which I've I've heard ever since I've been involved in development conversations and construction conversations. This seems to be the common denominator that's preventing some people from accepting and letting development go forward. uh
smart development that will improve the town. So essentially all we did was we took a red line to the the five-year requirement and instead of requiring people to tie in, make it convenient for them when
their septic fails or when ownership transfers. So which would be more cost advantageous to them anyways then I mean I I recently installed a new septic. It was It's like $40,000. Um
wouldn't be that to tie in, >> Mr. Chair? >> Yes. >> Um has this been discussed with the water sewer department? What what are their thoughts? uh they're supportive uh because the the
fees coming in will eventually come in and you have to build it for more fees to come in. Eventually they will be connected to the system and the enterprise fund is actually extraordinarily strong right now. Both
water and sewer. Sewer a little stronger than water. Um, but they're in support, >> Mr. Chair. [clears throat] >> Yes. >> Have a followup to that. Has the water sore commission voted on it or discussed it at all?
>> Not to my knowledge. >> Do they typically they typically vote on things like this? >> They they have in the past. Uh recently with the advent of the DPW director, the water and sewer commission is
entirely uh advisory. [snorts] >> Mr. Chairman, >> Zach, so here's the problem with this article. two years ago, maybe it was more than two years ago, two or three town
meetings ago, um there was a gentleman that uh had a warrant article if if you folks remember to change the tie-in requirement from 5 years to 7 years. And at that time the water sewer commission, the water department, the sewer
department was uh uh adamantly opposed to this because of the financial situation it would cause. So let's just call it what this is. If you were to run sewer
down my street and not require anybody to tie in, then the rest of the sewer uh customers are paying that tab until I tie in. So if I decide not to tie in for 20, 30 years, 40 years, 50 years, then
the people that are already on sewer are footing that bill because the town will be borrowing that money under the enterprise account and those payments will be coming under the enterprise account. So, I don't know, you know, I don't know if if this is uh Mark's idea
or the select board or who came up with it, but I find it hard to believe that in a two or three years time, the water saw commission, the water department, the sewer department had an epiphany. Wow. And all of a sudden went from
adamatly opposing a two-year extension to unlimited. So, for that reason, I'm a no. I I I kind of remember >> as as Zach just indicated that yeah, it
was a very, you know, sky is falling if you went two extra years, [clears throat] let alone this. And I'm not opposed to this. I've always been advocating for it, but I don't know how the finances all of a
sudden got so much better. >> [gasps] >> sneak preview of water and sewer budget. >> Oh boy. >> We haven't been counting two months a year of water revenue and sewer revenue
in the budget. >> [laughter] >> That's >> and our pertain earnings in water and sewer respectively have climbed millions of dollars and the rates have not increased in recent years. >> What? >> So
>> we can we can afford this and to to Zach's point [laughter] if if yes if if if there's a mile sewer extension maybe Joe a resident over on wherever Mr. Tillis lives uh would pay
maybe, you know, $4 extra a year for the next 20 years, 80 bucks. But the new development that's going to create would save hundreds in Mr. Tillis's pocket. So, Mr. Chair, I think that is part of what drove this is the fact that that
was the big deal breaker on Elm Street >> regarding everyone being forced to tie in and stuff. So, and again, we all I I I know I personally felt like, yeah, if you got a functioning system or one you just put in >> like 2 years ago and it's going to be good for 20, you shouldn't be forced to
tie in. So, I I'm an advocate that this is the right way to go with this. Um, it is upon failure of the system or transfer of ownership and it's going to feel at some point not and it's a wet town. H how [laughter] >> the DPW director will explain more? I I
>> how how >> 10 fingers. >> Yeah, [laughter] they couldn't go to the toes. How do you do? How do you miss two months? How many years? >> It's a good problem. It's a good problem to have. >> Oh, it's an excellent problem. But how
many years did this >> we'll have to do some forensic accounting >> how many years makes pretty sure [sighs] >> wow >> you know [laughter] >> that would have suddenly changed >> was it a select word discussion that you
know [laughter] >> thank you [laughter] >> Rainman I I can't speak to how long it's been going on. [laughter] >> Well, that >> when they get here, that is a question we will have. >> Yeah,
>> maybe we're not going to have this discussion tonight. That's fine. They're not here to discuss it, but we will want to know that >> it's there. I mean, at the end of the year, it goes into retain earnings. It's not disappearing anywhere. It just wasn't accounted for in in the revenues.
>> Are there any more accounts like this? >> I get a feeling that we can't >> just eat all this money. [laughter] Excellent question. And that's that's why earlier in the meeting I I was advocating for switching up the auditor. Well, I asked that. Um but okay.
>> Um cuz Oh, >> what's the >> Don't auditors like aren't they supposed to manually check what we're doing? >> Okay. Anyways, >> I think >> quick question. Oh. >> Oh, go ahead, Paul.
>> No, no. Gavin, you go. I I think Let me collect my thoughts, please. >> I'll go then. My question is pretty simple, I guess. Sort of. Um, >> Mr. I see Kevin's here. So, I see um you guys voted on this last week. Um, one
person voted against. Can you speak to >> Lucky you, Kevin? [laughter] >> See, now Zach knows I'm here. Watch out. Um, cuz he was at the meeting. Um Denise voted against it because she was concerned that the additional cost would
be bared by everybody else who is already tied into these or so we didn't know this information though. >> Oh >> yeah. Okay. >> So she was afraid that to Zach's point that that additional cost would be reallocated >> [clears throat]
>> uh to the rest of the population. So >> thank you. >> Yep. Gavin, I >> I think I was just going to say I I generally I understand the the hesitation to have, you know, a few
bucks reallocated, but I do think and I can understand the confusion with sort of like [clears throat] and I I emailed the water department a year or two ago when we were talking about Elm Street and was like, "Why why do we have these tie-in requirements?" And I heard the same thing. You know, it's for
financial projection reasons. So, I understand all that, but I do think when we get a new DPW director, new leadership, we've got a new town manage manager, we've got maybe a little bit of a different holistic vision on the situation, which includes both the
water budget, [snorts] sewer sewer fees, water fees, and the fact that we want to get this property developed. And when you look at all that together in that big picture, I think it ultimately ends up being a very small price to pay for, if there even is a price to pay. I mean, like like Mark said, it's probably a few
bucks. Um, [clears throat] for the town to progress in a way that it really needs to um unlocking some of these developments, I think that will be huge and ultimately will all be richer forward. I mean, that's kind of why we have a town is to work together and kind
of pull our resources and this sort of thing, I think, flows right from that. Um, so I don't know. I'm in favor of this. I think this was one of like probably the three hurdles for the Elm Street project. It was Betterman's tie-in fees >> and I had another one when I was
thinking about it earlier. I can't remember right now, but this is one of those pins knocked right down. Um the taxes was the other one and we knocked down that pin. Betterments remain and Marcus talked about aggressively uh negotiating with with developers and stuff. So maybe that one goes away and
you know Elm Street projects like it get developed for no cost to the residents. I mean that would be huge. But two out of three is pretty good. So, [snorts] >> Mr. Chair >> Sandy, >> um I just I just want to clarify though that this is there's a you know a minority of the town that pays sore
bills, right? So, I understand the initial concern before we heard about the extra money. Um as you we don't want that to fall upon a small percentage of the population. Um, I think it just needs to be really clear
from the DPW director and whoever else when presenting this article at town meeting that their rates are not going to go up. You have to, you know, if I think if you that's the only hesitation I would think anybody would have um is is being concerned about that because again it is such a small percentage of
our population. >> I I I don't think they can present it and say the rates won't go up. Well, but I think Mark they need to extra >> in such a way that [clears throat]
>> right for the projects on the immediate horizon we'd be getting state matching grants and using retained earnings and grants. So we we wouldn't be >> sure. [clears throat] So, we got a few extra million dollars
in sewer funds uh that we didn't account for, which >> I find it hard to believe even, you know, which a whole different subject, but the last sewer project we did, the cost overruns or just a few >> just the cost overruns,
>> that is a drop in the bucket. [laughter] And now we're just going to we're going to take our restrictions up wherever you want and uh you know you don't have to you don't have to worry about it. I don't buy it. One second. Second thing to my my friend Gavin's uh remarks over
there. Show me a town in the Southshore that has benefited from development. Mansfield, Easton, all the surrounding towns are in far worse financial situation than Norton is and have been. They keep building and building and they
just keep looking for more overrides and overrides and overrides. Show me one. Send that to me because I want to study it because I've yet to see one yet. >> Kevin. >> Yeah, Mr. Chair. Thank you. I just wanted to share also that when the selectwood was discussing this article,
uh there was a lot of discussion around not in the residential areas expanding sewer right now but more in the the main uh corridors around town for um industrial and commercial growth. So as far as the benefit of negotiating with
contractors so that they bear the cost of the complete sewer line and not everybody who's on the line. So I I don't know the details of for example uh zero Mansfield a but I believe that those three large um apartment uh
buildings that that developer is going to pay for the gravity line out to 123. So that's an example of nobody incurs the cost of the infrastructure improvements except for the developer ideally right whenever you
can negotiate that. So that was a big discussion uh that we had. >> Thank you. So you're So you're verifying that those apartments are going in, huh? >> I'm just watching it like you guys. [laughter] And and of course um
Mr. Kimell discussed he he's got the most knowledge of uh sewer lines. There are a lot that are forced gra forced sewer lines and not gravityfed that nobody can tie into. And the reason why they were put in as force lines is because of opposition from residents
that didn't want to tie into it. Not only the tie-in fees, the betterment fees, and then the ongoing outflow costs on your monthly bill >> right across the street's a big example of that. >> That's right. Yep. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> And and so we do have a plan to to to
have the major arteries 140 123, you know, built with the right diameter pipes and not to be responsive to each developer trying to force Maine to their project, which doesn't help the town as a whole. that this this helps it be more cohesive and actually I don't want to
use force but but persuade the developer to do what the town needs which that's a great example where we were able to to talk to him and then say can you pay for a onemile gravity line for the residents
at no cost to the residents so I I can't speak to whether that's project will be complete or not but That's if it goes forward, that's the terms it goes forward under. >> Mr. Chair, >> Paul, >> I make a motion that we approve article
23 to amend the bylaw the removal of the mandatory 5 to 7-year sewer tie-in. >> Second. >> Have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none, I'll go for the vote.
Zach, >> you want to take a wild guess? [laughter] >> I got to hear it. >> Absolutely not. >> Thank you. >> Smoke and mirrors. >> Gavin, >> yes. >> Tracy,
>> yes. >> Sandy, >> yes. >> Bonnie, >> yes. >> Paula, >> yes. >> Paul, >> yes. I to a yes. >> 71 71 >> 71
>> But that's all the fun we had scheduled for this evening. >> That was a lot of fun, too. [laughter] >> I like >> I for one can take no more fun. [laughter] >> How can you beat finding money?
>> I don't know. >> That's really generous. [cough and laughter] >> Mr. Chair, question we got in the previous minutes. How do we vote on minutes that are like a year or two old legally even? I thought there was a requirement in Massachusetts that there was a certain time frame that they had
to be accepted and presented. And I'm so if if you weren't weren't at the meeting, you are allowed to vote on the minutes as long as they they agree with what your recollection. I mean, if you saw it on the video later, there's
nothing that prohibits us from voting on minutes if we weren't at the meeting. Mr. Chair, >> yes. >> Mark, do you want to just discuss real quick the revenue and expenditure sheet you gave us? >> Do I have to?
>> Sure. >> Um, so I just want to say this is very preliminary. It's it's a draft. It's a working document. We're still um ahead of schedule. Um, there's a lot of moving parts. There's
uh anticipated revenues. I mean, the the Prop 2 and a half uh plus uh debt exclusion um local aid is essentially I'll call that flat uh 18.4 to 18.5.
Um everything else is going up with inflation, but state aid is staying below inflation. Um, we have uh our typical funding sources. Um, we're trying to wean off of free
cash. It's an uphill battle these days and nights. I usually up late uh trying to to figure out which corners of the budget we can tidy up to try to make this all come together and and keep level service for
our employees and uh the the typical assessments. Um I don't believe we have them all in yet. Um, but we do have Southeastern Regional, uh, which went up about 100,000 and that's directly tied
to enrollment. So, we must have a dozen more students attending there. U, interesting about the cherry sheet and that's that's what the state aid sheet is. They give us the front of it gives
us grants and money including chapter 70 for the schools and other funds and the back of it uh assesses you. So they give you $18 million and they take away 4 million um uh fixed and shared that's uh an
increase largely due to to health insurance and increased cost of energy. And as as you can see, uh we have a little bit left to balance before the end. But by uh by the first week in April, um I will
come before the committee with a balanced budget. >> Thanks. [clears throat] >> Um charter school tuition. I've I've always asked how this gets or or I've always asked for how this gets
assessed. So, >> charter school tuition. >> Yeah. So, it's going down like 300,000ish. Is it is it kind of based on just like uh the regional school, you
know, the number of people out of Norton who go to the charter school or how does that money >> I I went to the the cherry sheet on the state website and that was the dollar that was in the the block from the state. So I I I'm sure there is a
formula and it's probably directly related to number of students from Norton attending charter schools. Um but I I I couldn't speak authoritatively to that. Um but that's just what and these are numbers from the governor's bill. U sometimes the House or Senate could
change, but I don't I don't see them changing that particular one. Uh I mean it it might be one of those formulas. I mean the state has all sorts of formulas and some of them make more sense than others. This might be one of them that
doesn't. It might not even be related to enrollment, but I I can look into that and bring it back. >> Screen and mirrors. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> Any questions? [cough and clears throat]
Okay. Um, so did we get a thing of minutes? >> Lots of minutes, >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes. I recommend we wait till the next meeting so we have a chance to look at
them at least. >> What? >> We just got them tonight. >> No, I think you got your email. >> You got them in your email like a week or two ago. It >> was last week or the week before. >> Can't remember. >> All right. First time we got them in front of us. So, >> it's up to the comm up to the committee.
>> It's only 8:35. party. >> Do we have to vote on each um meeting minutes separately or can we just read off the dates and then vote it do one vote? >> I [laughter] think we could read the
dates and vote as presented. >> That's true. >> Well, we might have to do it separate. Yeah, cuz >> Oh, you really want to wait? >> We did last minute. We could just read through all of them. >> I just >> Mr. chair. Uh I just I'm thinking about
the chapter 90 discussion and how I kind of wish we hadn't voted on that even though it was you know I didn't even necessarily agree with the the issue but if somebody's uncomfortable voting and it makes no difference. I was thinking after that experience we should air towards just not voting. So I don't know
if Paul feels strongly doesn't want to vote on it based on that rule even though I also would be fine going forward today. >> I kind of have to I didn't speak up last time. So, I'm speaking up now. I guess that maybe we should just wait if one of us wants to wait. We'll always be here
next week. >> No, I'm all right. I'm all right. But I appreciate, you know, >> I mean, you could abstain if >> completely up to you. >> Yep. Yep. >> So, we're looking at both
the 2026 minutes and the 2024 minutes. You can. >> Okay. >> I'm kind of with Paul when it comes to 2024. >> Yeah. Remember anything?
>> Kevin's leaving. I forget who it was. is usually always found with typos. It was always typos. Was that you? >> That's me. And I already read through these and I can give them to Christie with typo corrections. [laughter] >> I can have any of them fixed, but I can only take credit for the minutes that
are the meetings that I've attended. But happy happy to correct anything that you point out. >> Yes, I wasn't implying they were yours. I'm just uh happy to hand you this with just the type. It's just typos that I noticed. And I'm happy to read them off too because Paul if you're not
>> just to so we can vote on them individually in the case that for any reason there's any different votes among the different minutes that would be the only reason to vote them separately.
>> What's your pleasure Mr. Chair? I would just go through each one. So we we can start with July 7th of 2024. Is the committee ready to make a motion or need any discussion?
I guess Bill could have asked that, but I was about to make motions and didn't want to interrupt anyone. Okay, >> Mr. Chair, >> Bonnie, >> I make a motion that we accept the minutes from July 7th, 2024
as presented, printed. I guess we should second. [clears throat] >> I have a motion and a second. Um motion from Barney, second from Paula. Any further discussion?
Hearing none. Zack >> abstain. >> Gavin >> abstain. >> And we won't have a quorum. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Sandy is here. >> Barney, >> yes. >> Paula, >> yes.
>> Paul, >> abstain. >> I'm a yes. So that's five. We don't have enough >> three or 503. >> Yeah. So we can't vote them tonight if it >> passed, right? >> Needs to six.
>> It has to be six. >> So >> no, we have a quorum voting. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. The majority voted yes >> minus three of us. Okay. >> We have eight. We have eight here. Yes. Right. >> Right. >> I thought we had to have favor. That's >> chairman. That pass. >> If three abstain, they're taken out of quorum. Isn't that how that works?
>> No, it's the quorum of the whole meeting. Okay. I was wrong. I was mistaken. Okay, >> cuz your vote gets recorded as an abstension. So, >> you got it, [clears throat] Paul Schliker, senior. >> Thank you. [laughter] >> All right. >> You pay you the big bucks to be on this committee.
>> Okay. September 9th. >> Feels like >> the only thing I noticed uh Mr. Sure. >> Yep. >> Is on the last page, page or page four, I should say. Last page with print is that it says second by and there's no one's nameless. It is just an underline.
So, I don't know if there's any way to see the meeting or something to find out who made that second, but that's the only thing that's missing information. >> Say that again. >> Uh, under where it says minutes on page four of this one. >> Okay. >> It says motion be made by Paul Schlaker
to approve the 424 minutes. ironically. Uh, second by blank. >> Ah, okay. >> So, if we can find out who that is. That's more than a typo. >> And then if we can >> Yeah, we could
>> spellch check. Uh, second at the end there. >> We We can bring that one back if that's an issue. >> Yep. But >> I I don't know if it matters, >> you know. >> So funny. My name is But not second. >> I mean, we
accepted as or approved as amended. >> I don't know if we >> do we need to actually know who it was. >> We can't amend it right this minute because we don't know who it is, >> right? I mean, >> oh, there's also >> call it a scribers's error and you get that. Okay. It's in every single one.
Yeah. >> You could always reconsider it if you don't like it when it's published on the website. >> Yeah, that's not going to happen. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> We're supposed to approve them in the state that they're going to enter the
website other than minor typos. >> Completely up to the committee. >> Come on then. [sighs] >> Yeah, he was. >> He was second. >> Oh, wait. >> He wasn't. >> No, he's not here. Wait a minute. >> He was virtual.
September meeting 24. No, he's when he joined. >> No, he started that. >> Oh, he started that. >> He started right at the end of my term being chair. >> He did. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Yeah. September 24, I believe.
>> That summer, whatever. Yeah. >> So, motion or no? >> I don't feel comfortable making a motion to >> Yeah. Have you been on since September 24th? >> Yeah, they started at the same time. That would have been the beginning. Yeah. >> 25.
>> Time is crazy, Paul. >> When you retired, >> it makes those July 7th minutes extra bad that they were from before I was even on here and I'm about to be [laughter] up for reappoint in 3 months. >> Okay. >> Whoa. >> Whoa. >> Whoa.
>> All right. If I don't >> What happens with that one? >> If I don't have a motion, then we'll just move on. >> Um, that's September 9th. September 16th. >> Oh, yes. It was a chair.
>> Mr. Chair, >> Bonnie, >> I'd like to make a motion to accept the meeting minutes from September 16th, 2024 as written. Second. I don't even see any typos. Motion by
Bonnie, second by Paula. Any further discussion hearing? None. Zach, >> if it helps you, you were at the meeting. >> Just saying. >> I don't remember what I had for lunch.
Forget about 2024. [laughter] >> I think it was tuna fish, Zack. >> Yeah. But anyways, Gavin, >> yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Sandy, >> yes. >> Bonnie, >> yes. >> Paula, >> yes. >> Paul,
>> abstain. >> I am a yes. >> So, yeah. Uh, September 23rd. >> Where's TR? What do you say? >> Back on 16. [clears throat]
>> 602 >> 16. [snorts] >> What's TR charger? the region charter. I don't know, honestly. All right. So, we're on September 23rd, correct? >> Yes.
>> I just see a couple typos. So, that's it. >> Mr. Chair, >> morning. I make a motion we accept the meeting minutes for September 23rd, 2024 as printed.
Second >> motion by Bonnie, second by Paula. Any further discussion? >> Hearing none. Zack >> Gavin, >> yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Andy,
>> yes. >> Barney, >> yes. >> Paula, >> yes. Paul saying >> I'm a yes. 62 September 30th. [sighs]
>> Mr. Chair Fing, >> I make a motion we accept the meeting minutes for September 30th, 2024 as printed. Second >> motion by Bonnie, second by Paula. Any further discussion?
>> Hearing none. >> Zack, >> obstain. >> Gavin, >> yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Sandy, [clears throat] >> yes. >> Bonnie, >> yes. >> Paula, >> yes. >> Paul, >> abstain. >> I am a yes.
62 October 10th >> after this meeting the crane meeting room I think >> yeah I made a correction that Bob Kimal lives on Pine Street not Pint Street but I did have a chuckle over it.
>> Um Mr. Chair >> Bonnie, >> I make a motion that we accept the meeting minutes for October 10th, 2024 as printed. Second. >> Have a motion and a second. Any further discussion?
>> Mr. Chair, I October 24th was a th it was a Thursday. >> It's October 10th, right? >> It was a joint meeting. >> Joint meeting. >> Was a joint meeting. >> Says it right. >> Ah, yeah. >> Did we not My notes used to do those.
>> Okay. We used to do those. Join me in >> Peter. What day of the week was October 10th, 2024? >> Was it Thursday? >> That's it. Peter knows. >> We never rain in that day. Peter >> Detroit.
>> Yeah. No, my my notes said seven. That's why I was questioning. >> I already made a motion. Correct. >> I thought I Okay, >> Zack. Amen. I just want to make sure I did. >> Did we meet on the seventh? >> Oh, does Zach hear you?
>> Yeah. >> Gavin, >> yes. >> Gracie, >> yes. >> Sandy, >> yes. >> Bonnie, >> yes. >> Paula, >> yes. >> Paul, >> I'm going to abstain because I wasn't there.
>> 503. >> 503. >> Yeah. catch up and watch the recording when you miss one. Second, Paul >> laugh. I've done that. >> I I have you myself with you.
>> Maybe that's all those. >> Or did I miss one? >> There's one more for March 2nd of this year. >> Right. So, now we go to March 2nd of
2026. says 16th too. I don't see it. >> Should be a little more uh in our memory. [laughter] >> Mr. Chair, >> Paul, >> make a motion we accept the March 2nd minutes >> 2026.
>> 2026. Yep. >> Add a motion. Who seconded? >> Bonnie did. >> Bonnie. >> Uh motion and a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. Zach, >> yes.
>> Gavin, >> yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Sandy, >> yes. >> Bonnie, >> yes. >> Paula, >> yes. >> Paul, >> yes. I Yes. >> Good job. >> Oh, that's the one you guys couldn't
hear me in. >> What? >> Huh? says a 16. See, do we have anything? >> Oh, we don't. >> I don't see them in my packet yet. >> I didn't have it either. >> I had a printer error. I'll have to bring that next time.
>> A lot of paper today. >> Mhm. >> See, we need to talk about computers. >> All righty. >> Paper, you'd say? >> I don't have those notes. >> We're We're working on it. >> We went over a bunch of articles. Why I'm saying that is because those meeting
minutes were not here. any >> further items anybody wants to discuss? >> 24th. >> Yeah, they're not in >> that would have been a >> Monday >> holiday. >> No, they're not October 7th. >> Yeah. >> Really?
>> It's this right. >> What do you got? Good. >> Is it usually the first or the second? >> Um, Monday. That's indigenous people. I'll take this as a no. >> There's a lot of discussion going on here though.
>> We were just wondering um if we've reviewed Monday, October 7th. Is that the date? If we had a meeting that day and if we've gone over those minutes yet from 2024 trying to be specific.
>> If it's not on this agenda list, I don't believe the assistant clerk has provided it yet, but I'll follow up. What was that date again? >> October 7th. 2024 >> 10724. I will double check on that. >> We didn't >> how many days do we need to have between
>> uh our last meeting and how meeting business days or cuz >> it's possible we didn't have a meeting because it was too close to the >> You can have a a meeting. A lot of towns have a finance committee meeting scheduled an hour before the town meeting.
>> We don't do that. Yeah, we don't. It's not a thing for us. So, I [laughter] we used to do that. >> I get it, Mark. >> Okay. >> I didn't mean to say it so quickly. Um been to one of those. >> We uh Yeah, >> we did have the
>> under extreme duress. We have occasionally done it, but in in the last say five years, >> we have not. So, actually on that note, I was going to ask my first that first >> fall I think we did one in the cafeteria and I was wondering because like I don't
even know if Mike was there. >> Yes. Yes. >> Or what? Like who even would have taken minutes for that? I don't I don't remember that. I submitted >> you did. Okay. So, somebody I'm not sure if we voted on those ones. I can't remember. >> They're actually on the website. Uh October 7th, 2024. >> Oh, so we already went over those. Those
fantastic >> those are already voted and posted. >> There you go. >> It's weird, right? >> So random post anyone in this. >> Okay. >> I don't know. >> I was Yeah, I was just questioning cuz we went to the [clears throat] 10th and I have notes from the 7th and that's why I said the dates my dates were I thought
off but they're not. I do have notes from >> we went over a bunch of articles. So unless people want to continue to continue this meeting into ours, um I'd entertain a motion,
>> Mr. Chair. Motion to adjourn. >> Second. [laughter] >> Those are tell me twice. Bill >> have Well, you got a vote on it. Have a motion on the second. Zack, >> yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Tracy, Sandy,
>> Bonnie, >> yes. Paula. >> Yes. >> Paul, >> yes. I should have stayed. >> Paul's already on 123. Sorry. [laughter] >> I am a yes. I should say no, but [laughter] >> it's unanimous.
There you go.