Good evening. >> Um, call the April 15th tax day. Uh, >> oh, that's right. Fin meeting to order. >> You like to stand for the pledge of
allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
>> This is awesome. We have no technical issues like Monday. Um, >> I was informed that Norton Media said that was a one-off and it won't happen again. >> Let's write that down. >> We'll see.
>> That's awesome. >> Um, let's see. Is >> Kevin >> Kevin and Steve not here >> until 7:30.
So with that said, >> sure. So um happy to get into uh the budget. Uh just as a preliminary matter, I think last time we talked about using some of the health insurance money to uh help out with the budget this year. Upon
consultation with the the fire chief, um we decided it's probably appropriate to use um another 100,000 from ambulance reserve ambulance receipts. So instead
of 1.1 1.2. So that's a 100,000 that we could use for his firefighter. So instead of instead of 11 firefighters, it would cover 12 firefighters out of the ambulance reserve. And we do feel that the revenue is sufficient to make
that the baseline going forward in addition to ambulances and fire trucks. So that would cover the fire position. Correct me if I'm getting this wrong. >> And then the 150 we talked about from health insurance um would go for a
police officer in the schools. So 100 for employees, 50 for schools if I remember. >> Yes. Right. >> Okay. >> And so I mean schools had >> I won't speak for schools but uh they're happy to get 50,000 I'm sure.
>> Okay. Any questions, Zach? >> So would that mean we would be looking It's June uh June 30th, right? Is the fiscal year. Uh so you look you'll be looking to get somebody in the position
by then chief. >> Yeah. >> July 1st. Is that >> if possible? Yes. Soon as soon as possible. >> The same thing with the police department to get that >> start working on that position. >> We we have to you know look atmies and and time it right.
>> I know it takes it takes forever. That's that's why I'm asking position. It takes forever unless you can find somebody experienced that you can >> you know a different uh >> municipality. I know every surrounding community seems to be passing over, right? So they're probably not going to
go through. So they have some availability. >> Anybody else? >> I might have to sit over there chair. >> You know I have a question. um the 150,000. So this is um money that you said was saved with health insurance
because you negotiated a new contract with our health insurance provider. So and we're using this. Is this considered a one-time fund though? Like do we foresee next year that health insurance could go up significantly and then what are we going to do with that? You know
what I mean? So, I'm I'm working on the forecast as the committee suggested and hopefully I'll have that by our next meeting in two weeks from now after school vacation week for the children. Um, yes, I think that would be sustainable.
>> Okay. >> Because it's it's if we expand the opt out program and expand the HSA program, I see it even getting better, much much better, like hundreds of thousands of dollars better, optimistically speaking. >> Cool. Great.
Mr. Chair, >> Paul Mark, just um to try to round out the discussion from the other night. Um when the schools were in, they were looking that um um an additional 400,000 would really
make them whether this next year where we're cutting back on some of the stuff you're giving 50 towards the school out of the insurance. Um, what would be the drastic side of the potential doing 350 out of the free cash and doing a 1950
free cash instead of 16? There's still a decent reduction in the free cash and >> Oh, I I heard that school said that they were happy with the budget. >> Oh, well, maybe maybe happy is overstating it, >> but um I thought like able to do it
without layoffs. Um >> but they needed like 400 I thought they need a 400 more. >> Yeah. So I mean free cash doesn't have another 350. >> So >> what is the balance?
>> Preliminarily about 100,000. Really? >> It was a big snow and ice year >> and there's 200,000 recommended for accumulated absences trust
because we have at least two buyouts next fiscal year. We had two buyouts this fiscal year, but we're currently negotiating to stop the bleeding with buyouts and the unions seem to be receptive. But we in the future we can
hopefully prevent six figure buyouts from being a regular thing. >> So I don't want to derail the agenda too much here. Um >> this might be next meetings discussion but >> so
you had said that there was a pool of money set aside. He didn't want to give the number. So I respect that. Set aside because contracts were still
in play in various areas. Are we projecting all that pool to disappear or is there excess to again hit the schools because again their
their contract? I don't have it open. Well, I do have it open. $2 million contract went up or salaries went up two million >> and we're not even close to that. We're looking at townside raises. No, but what
I'm saying is, you know, we try to I I think we've we try to cover those costs and everybody else's budget and we're like not even close in theirs. So >> that so I it's like robbing Peter to pay
Paul. Um dance >> right here >> and we'll continue to >> welcome to Norton. >> I mean we at the last two meetings we we we added 150 and 100. We'll we'll see what the the finance gods say for next
meeting. I'll I'll try my best. I don't want to >> Okay. >> overpromise and underd deliver. >> Yeah. Okay, >> Mr. Chair. Um I saw that the House Ways and Means came out with their um projections today to do 160 per pupil.
So that would up the chapter 70 funds. I know sometimes we've used that number as our starting estimate um to budget from from there as opposed to the governor's budget. Would that be an option? >> It's it's certainly an option. It's just a risky game because the House and then
the Senate and then the governor like like you don't it's like the stock market trying to to target the ups and downs. I also heard UGGO went down, so it might have been a net decrease instead of a net increase. So, we'll I'll look at that
and bring that back next meeting. It's certainly possible. >> I don't know who said that, but yeah, >> Zack. >> Zack, >> down here at the kids table. >> Uh, Mark, correct me if I'm wrong. You know, I have I have all the meeting at home and
I look to them, but I thought in your presentation originally that we were sitting around 1.6 million free cash and now we're saying we don't have 100,000. I'm I'm a little confused the way that went. >> So 1.6 is included in the budget. So I'm
already including that. So 1.7. >> So there's no free cash basically. You use 100% of all the free cash other than $100,000. Uh yeah, like 2 million went to last year's budget. Um a million.6 is going to this year's budget. Yeah, all the
free cash has been going to budgets, which is not a sustainable practice. >> I thought this current this fiscal year right now that we're finishing up and then we had almost 6 million total >> uh 4.6 million >> 4.6
And then then I went for budget supplements. It went to borrow to pay back the 500,000 that we borrowed from stabilization and 1.6 correct is going to this year's budget. >> Mark, can we get like a like a write up
on that just number? >> Hang on a sec. I I was just jotting this down before I came, so maybe I can give you more specific right now, but I can certainly give it to you in
writing after. Um, so I had 4.6 was the certified free cash. Then October town meeting, we spent 2.4 million of that and that was for budget supplements and
stabilization repay. So 4.6 minus 2.4 4 minus 1.6 for this coming up budget. Snow and ice deficit. We budgeted 80,000 for snow and ice. So
above the 80,000 we spent 288,000 and change. >> Now we're going to get some funds back from that from the feds. Is that pending? >> Potentially, but I'm sorry. >> You good? >> Potentially, but a fraction. A fraction.
And generally speaking, I I know from experience, it doesn't come to us for another year at least. >> They told me 8 to 12 months um meeting with Nema and then then during another one they said it could be several years. So >> So the jury >> somewhere between 8 months and several years.
>> Do you remember the total we asked for? >> It was I believe it was 154,000. Um if they approve that um the presidential disaster uh declaration did get approved. So that's that's obviously good news. We met the thresholds for that. um then it's whatever they
approve, you have to give them all the backup for it and we get 75% of that if um you know if everything checks out. Um but that being said, we can write off some of the emergency management volunteer hours to help offset that 25%. So we might be might be able to get it up into like maybe the low 80s or
something like that. Um but again, I have no definitive timeline for you on that. And even the snow removal was like it was like 48 hours that they allowed. So you had to pick like the worst or the busiest 48 hours. >> So even though the storm went on for six or seven days of clearing, you're only
allowed 48 hours. >> Chief, >> correct? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Guaranteed money. >> We've done reimbursements for federal stuff before that took, you know, 16 17 months to get honestly >> be a bonus in a couple of years,
>> right? Yeah. For for sure. Yeah. Um, so so the last thing was minus 200 for accumulated absences brings it tound roughly 100,000 remaining in the trash. >> Goes quick, >> Mr. Chair. >> Paul,
>> so Mark, we're we're going to we're going to have to vote to transfer from free cash for the snow and ice. Um, what about reserve funds? Should we tap into that for any of the snow and ice? Could we use that for some of that some of the
expenses as well? >> It's it's we could do anything um preserve. I mean, it it was a once- ina-lifetime year, so that's not like out of the question. I I don't think it's a good practice since we did last
year just borrow 500 from the reserve funds and then pay it back in the fall. Then we're kind of just putting >> That was stabilization though, right? >> Reserve. >> Our fing reserve. >> Oh,
I haven't >> stabilization. I'd be using as well for >> because usually reserve goes back to free cash if you don't spend it. I've never seen it. I don't see why we couldn't put it for next year's budget.
I've always just seen it go next year's prec. >> No, for these one time. Yeah, these onetime expenses. >> Oh, use it for snow and ice. You mean >> I would prefer to use stabilization or reserve funds for these one time. >> I mean hopefully I mean next year we
could have blizzards as well. >> I excuse me. I'm apologize for interrupting. I just want to make sure that you guys are locked in afterwards so we can stay open in case anybody needs to come into this meeting. >> Yeah, we got it. Thank you. >> Thank you. Have a good night. >> See you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Certainly an option. >> I thought he was going to tell us the other way. >> We're not We just We might need some of those reserve funds just for uh electricity or >> unexpected bills,
>> right? Not a large amount. Uh we have what 160 140 in there. Um, I would guess maybe we need 20 or 40. But um, guess there are no other general questions. We can get to the the heart
of tonight's meeting if that's okay, Mr. Chair. >> It's awesome. So, um, pleased to present, um, after a long awaited charter change about five years ago where town meetings said we need a DPW director, um, we made it happen. Um, and
I we couldn't be more pleased. We're buckling down on expenses, on organization, on on everything. We're we're targeting new growth, which will help tremendously. We're not counting on it, but if New Girls happens, which is
the plan, it it's going to help everything exponentially get us out of where we are and get us where we need to be faster. Um, but Justin Cha is comes from New Bedford and there's not an aspect of public work that he hasn't seen, been exposed to, handled, and
we're very privileged to have him. >> Thank you. So, good evening. As Mark said, uh uh I took over about 14 15 weeks ago maybe. Uh first week of January. Um kind
of hit the the the ground running and I think uh it paid off dividends during the during the snow and and you know I think my my first three weeks here we had 40 something inches of snow. So uh
it was kind of you know right into the fire. Um, I've sat down with um all the budgets that I'm going to present tonight. I know I have a few here to to talk about. Um, I want to say that um, you know, on the
on the surface, you've got a fine group of people working here in Norton. Um, I think I think everybody wants to see progress and and see money well spent. So, um, the support I've received from not only town hall and the select board,
but the staff has been, uh, tremendous, and it's much appreciated. So, um, thank you for having me. Um, if you don't mind, we'll start with the highway budget, I believe, uh, which for the most part was was, um,
level funded. Uh you'll see a couple of increases from last year's budget uh accounting for contractual raises under services. Um some money was moved around uh such as uh telecommunications and um
we took some money from one line item and and gave it to another line item. But overall, I believe uh the budget went up by $50,000 from from the previous year. Um, >> and if I may, that's but that's because
Hicks fund is um pitching in. >> Yep. Hud Hick Fund is pitching in there. Um, gave us a cemetery employee this year and some of the equipment that we needed to run cemeteries. So, um, for the most
part, we're going to we're going to attempt to to move along next year, uh, with a level fund. Now, um the way I see it, again, and I know everybody comes to you and says the same thing, but that's not sustainable. Um the infrastructure
that this town is taking on is increasing. Um I I I see a a face I know well, Sandy. Um and it just brings to mind like the, you know, the rail trail and and some of these items that are great for the town, but they take on
maintenance costs associated with that. Um uh so it's just something to keep in mind moving forward that that you're going to see some of these budgets, especially in the highway department, um uh increasing over the years
or the next few years based on uh infrastructural needs, if I may. Um repairs to private ways. We we've always heard that, you know, we needed the past money
so that police, fire, and whatnot, you know, doesn't, you know, poor roads don't damage that equipment. So, why are we going from 11 even though we haven't doesn't appear we've spent that much down to one?
>> Yep. So, uh, last year's 11, I guess, was allocated specifically for, um, King Phillip and Charlotte. Charlotte, correct? >> Right. Um, that was a one-time increase. If you notice, years past, it had been
$1,000. Um, I was told the select board requested extra money be be added to that, but there's still limited work that we're allowed to do in private way per uh per legalities and legislature.
So, um, we're putting more time into, especially King Phillip, into pothole repairs, into doing minimal grading, not to cross that line to what is, you know, emergency repairs compared to what is,
you know, bringing this back up to the to the level that some people would like to see. So, um, we think that bringing that back down to $1,000, um, makes more sense. >> Okay.
>> Mr. Chair, um, Mark, I know you just sent a new year-to- date um, totals email, but um, the one that you had sent earlier this month, it said you you had spent 2100 on the repairs to private ways. So, over that 1,000.
>> Um, do you anticipate for this year? Yeah. Yeah. As of >> It's the same report that I sent before. I just sent it again. >> Oh, okay. I didn't know if it was updated or changed. You changed anything. >> I will tell you that that number will go up. Um we're doing, you know, we're hot
and heavy into pothole repair right now. There's not a day that goes on that the that the machine's not out. Um we've been kind of heading to those private ways later in the day when when we've gotten some of the other roads done. So, there will be an increase in that as the year goes on. You still feel comfortable
with just budgeting a thousand >> for next year? Yes. >> Okay, >> Zach. >> So, so what is the official policy on the private waste? What are we doing? I want to talk about repairs. Are we plowing them?
>> We plow straight down the middle for emergency vehicles. On all private waste. >> Straight down the middle. >> And that's pretty much it. That's for the emergency vehicles to get through. >> And how many private ways are there in town? Do you know?
>> I did just give you that number. >> 15 or 16. >> Yeah. >> Cuz there's one near you. You guys have put up a sign long before your time and this private way. No town services will be provided. That's a little different than no town
service, but >> yeah, we I was here for the storms and I know we we plowed down the middle. >> And we actually >> much to a lot of people's cigar, you know. >> Yeah, there was like an emergency call,
too. And like firefighters had to shovel people's walkways to get there. >> The driveway that was pretty darn close to a quarter mile long for a cardiac arrest call. Yeah. >> So, you got to do it here. They're in the middle of it. >> When it comes to emergency, you know, if chief calls us and says we need to get in this area, as we did on that
particular call, we'll send somebody to assist. >> Yeah. With Lord, >> thank you. >> Next up, Justin. Uh again, I the next I think budget is snow, correct?
>> Yes. I'm not sure there's a lot to talk. >> Yeah, I'm not sure there's a lot to talk about, but uh again, we're level funding that the $80,000. We we sincerely hope this year was one off. Sincerely hope
that. Um but as Mark said, um you know, we surpassed we surpassed that 80,000 by 288,000, I believe, for a total of of 300 and something thousand. And again, um I am
communicating with other towns and cities and it's incredible that we only spent $300 and something thousands this year. Um it's a it's again it's a it's a um it's kudos to the guys that were out there
doing that following and and um you know we pre-saltt we post salt. A lot of thought and pro uh goes into that process and whether we're going to pre-saltt posts salt depending on what the weather patterns are coming up later on in the week or what the storm's going
to do after the storm passes. So uh we really try to manage it from a public safety standpoint first but also a budgetary standpoint uh you know following that. So um any questions on that? Just just one on the I noticed in
Mansfield next door they they chemically treat the roads prior to >> we did a new >> Houston's doing it too. >> We did a new Bedford also. >> Um is that >> it it's a good process but for us to turn to that process now to have to go out
and buy the equipment to do that doesn't make any sense at all. Uh we buy so what that is is what they call magnesium chloride. Uh we buy our salt premixed with the mag. So it's just a different method. I you know I'm not saying that
the pre-treating with the liquid mag doesn't work cuz it it works well >> costwise. Costwise it's more expensive, more equipment u more time on the roads. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Chair. Um, I don't want to skip
ahead, but I know we got the uh the article about the the sidewalk snow removal. Um, but we're funding snow and ice at the same level. Shouldn't we see some cost savings in this from that? >> Absolutely not.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. That again, that $80,000 for a snow season is not a lot of money. Gotcha. Thank you. >> And we have about a mile of sidewalks.
>> I'm sorry. If I might add to that, you would definitely see a cost savings in the overall the 328,000 that we spent this year, but the $80,000 budget to turn back say $10,000, I don't think I
don't think that's prudent. >> Okay. I guess we can talk more. >> We'll explain more when we get to that. It's been at the 80,000 for years because it's the only account. >> Correct. And if you do drop it, if you were to drop that fund, you cannot
deficit spend next year >> and ever again. >> And I I don't know about ever again, but I can speak for the city of New Bedford did that last year where they they dropped it by three or $400,000 and now you cannot deficit spend it. So
now you have to spend it out of your highway budget. Um, >> and I believe if you increase it, you can't reduce it, >> right? >> So that's why we've left that level. >> Leave it alone. Leave it alone. >> Been, you know, as long as I've been on this committee. >> Plan on that. Plan on that fund off to
the side because chances are, honestly, chances of us making an $80,000 budget, I think you probably did it last year when we had one storm, but chances are very slim just in salt alone. Forget the snowfall, right? just just trying to
treat ice. >> Got it. Okay. >> Okay. >> Next. >> Next up is >> Justin. >> Facilities. >> Yep. >> So, facilities. Again, I believe we
level funded except for two uh two line items, which is electricity and uh fuel, which I'm, you know, working with Mark. Um, we're well over budget this year. I think it's a it's a um it's a point of you had a brand new building.
People were unsure of what the electric and heating costs were going to be. Um, I know we surpassed the budget amount well before I even got here. Um, and I I went over the numbers with you a couple of weeks ago. I think we are projected to go over by
almost 200,000 mark. Is that correct? We are predicted to go over a little bit in facilities just because of the new construction because >> um not not 200,000 I'm sorry. >> No, not 200 like 20 >> 20,000 >> because of the new town hall and the
senior center funding. Uh we kind of needed to rearrange the electricity uh accounts to be more effective. So I mean there there are some solar credits that maybe we could deploy a little more effectively and then
hopefully we can do that going forward. We're discussing with the companies to try to do that. >> Working on consolidating those credits. >> These numbers reflect the actuals from this year which are the best indicator of what next year will be. >> I was going to ask about solar. So where
it sounds like the credits are all over the place. Where are they? Like why why isn't it consolidated? >> That's an excellent question. >> That's an excellent question. But you also have I'm sorry, but you also have a ton of accounts here in town.
>> So one thing that Ebisaw isn't good about is consolidating accounts. So I Christie might even answer that. Like we had something like 25 electric accounts here in town. So there's so many accounts and and
we're still paying for the landfill which is also generating electricity and the school uh through u what was it train >> is also generating excess electricity um I mean the amount of credits we have
we shouldn't really be paying electric bills moving forward but >> for a little while >> but the the maze that we're dealing with with with constellation National Greed. Great greed. That was so fre
>> But we have to get all these accounts aligned with the credits and then going forward either we could request a refund or have no utility bill for X years. But that's in the works. But it's not an easy thing to do. But we've literally
been in contact with them every day for the past 60 days. I kid you not. I can share the log. >> We're trying that. This is something we need to do. >> Worst case scenario though, we're not
losing anything. We're just through no nobody's fault. We're just so disorganized that we're not going to be able to reap any benefits you currently. >> I mean, that's not how I would appraise it. >> Yeah, I don't either. >> But uh
>> I don't either. I don't know if I agree with this statement, >> but they're not being allocated as efficiently as they could be and will be in the future. >> Okay. And this is just town hall. So, this isn't schools. This isn't uh maybe COA, right?
>> I'm talking globally. >> Yeah. So, all those credits are out there for everybody else. And and I know that Mark's office and that was one thing that he requested that I I look into with them is bringing those credits together and getting it on one bill. so
that we can somehow figure out >> the money's out there. How can we use it? >> Yeah. I'm I'm I'm I'm just concerned that we're going to come to a day in six months going, you know, here's what we got.
Here's what we lost because of being disorganized. >> No. >> So, it's out there. We just need to >> It doesn't expire. >> Okay. >> No. Solar cards don't expire. You have them on your home. You move. You sell your house. You're allowed to keep them.
We're going to move forward and bring them together. >> Awesome. >> So, it's not net metering. >> Nope. >> All municipal building. So remind me um this
is this town hall and our new um community senior center. What about the former council on >> aging and what about our former >> weatherized? >> Yeah. >> Aging. >> We're still paying on >> We're still paying for that building.
>> Keep the heat on. Not keep it from freezing. small. >> The going plan is to get a survey, get a easement from National Grid and sell it. >> Sell it. Okay. Yeah. Cuz I >> It's probably worth half a million.
>> The minutes reminded me the last we talked about that building two years ago, there was units had mentioned um some nonprofit that was interested in taking that over. But that >> I mean I got a call last week from the Y. Um, people also want to store things
for C2. Um, the toys for kids drive. It's about the children. Um, but uh, no good if it can generate some revenue. >> Yeah, the building's not >> the building is not in good shape. >> Yeah, but whoever buys it can knock it down.
>> Yeah, it's the land that's the most >> Yes. >> given its location. >> Anyway, I'm just curious. Okay, thanks. We have that school building behind there, too. That's been working with Jen. >> The garage. >> The garage or whatever. >> Oh, yeah.
>> Yeah. I don't know if we'd call that a building. >> A garage. >> It's a garage. >> Garage. >> It's a structure. >> Today. >> We own it. Schools own it. Yeah. >> More snow. >> One good hurricane and it's >> I don't know if they own it or if they
they work out of it. >> Oh, >> yeah. They store their >> They store their lawn equipment. >> Their equipment. Yeah. >> Okay. >> We've been working or talking with Jen to kind of move that aspect of it out.
Um and maybe DPW at some point take over the groundskeeping of the grounds. Maybe um the schools continue doing the athletic field for the children, but we take over the grounds and cutting grass and snow removal. So, we're kind of working to figure out how we could make
that work. And part of that was what we would demolish that building and where could we house the equipment and that kind of thing. >> So stay tuned. >> And plowing too. Did you mention that? >> I said plowing. Yes. >> Plowing and mowing. >> My least
>> looking for efficiencies. >> My least favoriteities. >> We good with snow? I'm sorry. >> I mean facilities. >> Yeah. Everything else looks >> all right. On to water.
>> I was just going to say water and sewer to last and do street lighting first. >> Sure. >> That's I set up the packet for best for last. >> Okay. I must I went out of order. Street light is currently also uh level funded. Um and this is the electricity for
street lighting, not the replacement of street lighting. uh the replacement of street lighting falls under highway as well as a I believe warrant article from uh couple years back. There's still some funds that we're working on
replacing the old lights over to LEDs. Um we had a good push right before the blizzard right when I got here um on um Mansfield A and on West Main Road. and we have the
subcontractor under contract to continue that push. Um, we're changing over to LEDs. We're at like 50% of the town. >> Yeah. >> And and then I see the confused look in some people's faces. I too was told that
we were all LEDs switched over, but um, Boots on the ground says that we're not. >> Absolutely not. about 50%. >> Mr. Chair, >> will we charge for that? >> Not that I'm aware of. What I know of is an article that you guys uh and I say
you guys, I apologize for that term, but that the town voted, don't quote me the number, but $200,000 or something to that effect. >> Um, it has been spent. You have changed all the lights, but there's a ton to go.
We could get an accounting of where that money >> went. We've spent it, but it's not done. >> No, that's what I Okay, >> there is $60,000 that I am aware is still in that account. That's currently what I'm using to continue this project
going. So, yes, there has been $140,000 give or take. will get an account on it spent for the switch over of them. But I think the cost of switching over the whole I think the cost of switching over the entire town far surpassed what that warrant article did.
>> So that was going to be my next question. If we're only 50% done and we've spent like 70% of the budget, >> yes, I'm going to come back and ask for more money. However, I am working with Eversource or National Grid out here
rather uh to find out what kind of uh rebate uh grants are available to do that same thing because they want us to switch them over to LEDs as well. So, um stay tuned for whether or not there's rebate money available. >> I hope so. Paul,
>> Mr. Chair, Justin, if we look at the last couple of years, they've been $50,000 a year. This year at the halfway point we're only at 125. Is that because of the LED savings? Because the halfway through here should be half. >> I can't answer that. >> I apologize that I can't but I haven't I
haven't >> managed it long enough too. >> Next year you're looking for 50 again, but it almost looks like you can go to 25 and then still cover maybe. But >> I I saw the same thing you saw, but I also know there's been some eversource bills that are kind of floating around that I'm not sure have been paid yet. So
I'm I I can't answer to that at this point in time. Um but certainly there is a possibility that that that'll happen. >> In a normal world it would be consistent every month to month. You know in the winter well not if you're talking street lights. Yeah. It would be consistent.
>> Winter would be longer. >> Yeah. >> More than the summertime obviously lights are on longer. >> Zack >> but half years a half year. Mr. Champ. >> Yeah. So, the street lights were owned by National Grid,
>> I'm told. >> And then we put on a contract to a third party to change all the lights in town and to reassess the locations going back a few years back to Mike. I
was in the I was under the understanding that that was done. We paid the contract for third party. I know they've done in my area which I live at the edge of town. Uh but now you're saying they have not done.
I think there's a serious issue with that if that is the case. And my next question would be is I'm on 123. Is that the town's lights or is that the state's lights? >> That should be the state's lights. 123 >> and 140. Those are not
>> cuz I didn't mention. >> Do they actually maintain them though? >> We shouldn't be paying anything. the balls, you know, we should be, you know, I don't know. >> And again, it's 123 from the center at out of Grove, not from here to East. >> Correct. >> I'll get back to you on whether or not the state's paying or we're paying because I don't
>> The bigger issue is we paid we put on a contract for somebody to replace all the legs of town. And as far as my understanding was that was done years ago and now you're saying that half of them not. I just find that
>> shocking, >> disheartening. >> I >> concerning. >> I can't especially >> if we put a contract out. We need to dig up. I know. I know. >> I haven't seen that manager. I know you're new. You're getting your feet wet. I get that. But somebody needs to dig out that contract wherever it may be. >> Um
>> I don't think from what I and I I could be wrong. I don't think there was ever a contract executed. >> And who changed the lights? It wasn't the highway department. It was a third hire. >> It is peace meal. >> Yeah, they're doing them peace meal. Dagel electric does them.
>> So who does right now if I call you and I say my street's light my street light is on my street. Who's coming to change the bulb? >> D electric at some Well, it that's a catch 22. It's LED now. So there's no bulb to change. >> Oh, whatever. >> But your lights out and you call me. I'm
going to put it on a list and when I have four or five on that list, I'm going to call Del electric. And we don't have an electrician. We don't have any means. Well, you do have an electrician, but I I don't change lights. >> I think some more digging needed into that whole project. >> I promise you I will.
>> You have my word. >> So, we we you don't think it was ever officially contract? >> I don't think there was ever a contract executed to change that. I think there was x amount of dollars allocated for that warrant and that money went into a
fund and they have pulled from that fund and change lights over in peace meal like Mark said but I don't think there was ever a contract that said go around town and change 150 lights like I >> and the location I haven't seen that's what we were sold
>> I do have a database of my number >> I do have >> that's the point I'm more concerned about >> I do have a database of all the lights locations but on that database it shows me which ones were changed and which ones weren't. Now, I didn't believe that. So, I sent guys out from a couple of streets and said, "Go make sure that
these haven't been changed." And they have not. And I can speak at least to West Main and Mansfield AB. There was a good 40 that were not changed over. >> So, right now you're getting we're getting build electricity based on the bulb that's in there. >> Correct.
>> So, who's reporting that to National Grid? You're not supposed to. No, you get based on usage and that's >> Well, there's no meters on the There's no meters on these lights. So, they're basing on on what bulb you got in there and how many hours roughly the daylight
is. There's no meters on these lights. So, that's, you know, and just by the way, so you know, we were paying about 200,000 a year for street lights roughly, you know, before this project and it's dropped down >> considerably. Yeah. >> So, you know, >> I can't speak on the metering part.
>> Yeah. So I've been to one day it's all I'm saying >> we pay the church we paid just for the light is a fun take care of maintaining everything >> but it's been a drastic reduction in
>> in that in that line item >> so I don't know >> I again I promise you I will get you the information you're looking for and you deserve >> and we can provide a whole accounting of that whole that warrant article with all invoices and look up the contract
>> and and I've seen that I've seen the pieces of invoice like a electric say 10,000 10 lights like I've seen that there was no big contract like you're talking about executed I can't tell you why but I can tell you I know what I've seen >> Peter
>> yes um I was going through my archiver of minutes I covered and my units asked for change the street flexibility back in 2024 four. >> That's right, Peter. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Peter.
>> Thank you, Justin. >> All right. If if you want to get technical, the state's probably supposed to pay for lighting them on the stateowned roads. I I don't know that we would ever see a dime from trying to chase the state down
on that. >> Especially if they're not needed, >> I'll definitely get the information. >> We can ask We can ask >> how we pay, why we pay. state representative actually has a bill he's putting forward that would save us 25
cents a gallon on diesel and unleted because why should our DPWR fire trucks our vehicles pay the state tax that just >> gives an additional tax goes back to the state
>> so that 25 cents a gallon >> that'd give us you know 30 $30,000 a year if we don't have to pay that 25 cents a gallon. >> It's 30% of our free cash right now. So,
>> we'll take it. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> What did you want to do next? You want me to save water and waste? >> Just go to order. So, you got recreation next. >> Yep. So, one of the uh one of the organizational changes that we've made
since I've been here is we we uh you know made one one DPW and part of that DPW DPW excuse me is parks and recreation. Melissa's uh department or now division um now falls
under DPW which kind of aligns with the way it kind of should be. CNZO highways traditionally maintain the parks and wreck areas. So um um it's a pleasure
working with Melissa so far. Um I I sat down with her on a few occasions, seen um where your parks and wreck was a few years ago and where it is now. And I think she's doing an outstanding job with the programming. Um and
hopefully this reorganization will not only open up more um opportunities for us to work together uh and share resources but also um
you know give her some of the support maintenance-wise that she wasn't getting I I would think. Um, so again, parks and wreck, Melissa's here for specific questions. Um, but you can see that for the most part, uh, it went up a couple
of thousand dollars from the previous year. And most of that is the contracted services for the pool maintenance. Uh, the plumbing of turning on and off um, water at these locations in the springtime and winterizing it in the
summer. Opposite. Thank you. and uh Flynn pest control to uh get some of the critters out of these buildings that stay dormant all winter. So, I would open up questions for parks and wreck. Did we
Wasn't there a pool issue last year or last winter that we needed money to fix the pool? there was a slow leak that the pool um the pool guy for lack of a better term he fixed it. Um so we took care of that
and then um this year there may this year he found that there may be a leak in one of the one of the pipes probably underground but he thinks he may have fixed that. We couldn't tell this past summer because it was a hot sunny summer. So, we
couldn't tell if it was leak or evaporation out of the pool because there's no shade in the pool. So, he didn't seem concerned. He does commercial pools all over the state. Um, and if he's not concerned, I'm okay with that because he's been with us for
years. So, >> decades. >> Decades. Yes. Bill is awesome. Uh, Zach, >> uh, question on the personnel services. It went from 38 to 48. Is there a line in hours? More hours.
>> Melissa is taking on more hours over the next year. Yep. >> And then my my question would be >> there's a stipen. There's also a stipen in there for Melissa. My other question would be on a comment Mark made about the fuel. Should we be charging, you
know, water and sewer to parks and wreck? I mean, >> that's a town bylaw. >> Oh, it is. >> Not only that, but it also falls on the countered water. So, your regulatory agencies want you to >> they want the chief to pay for his fire
when he puts out a fire. just >> looking for any ideas. >> Just like on the opposite side, highway pays and and water and sewer pays for details. It's kind of along the same lines. >> I saw that five grand or whatever it was.
>> Yep. >> Um Mr. Chair Mark, the um the year to date for through April 2nd, it said that the expenditures had gone up to 41,231. Did I >> on which line?
>> Notate that wrong. expenditures. Maybe I it could be my mistake. So, I'm just I'm just double checking. >> 1,00 >> 231 for expenditures, which >> I have 9,000. Oh, that's >> that was as of December. >> I have 18,000. >> Okay, then it was my mistake. I'm just
double checking. 18,000 >> through December 31st. I have 18. >> What about through the April 2nd? >> So, it's 18 plus 9. That's just so the bottom line. Yeah.
>> So, it's 18 plus 9, so it's 27,000. >> 27,000. Okay. So, that's exceeded >> um what was budgeted for expenditures. >> That can't be right. Oh, your part-time wages, Melissa, that's separate, right? >> Yeah.
>> Your part-time wages doesn't come out of the budget. Is that correct? >> I'm just looking at expenditures, though. >> Yeah. But if you look at expenditures up top under recreation, the 18,000 or whatever number you're seeing is part-time wages. No, the 18,000 up above for personal services is is me.
>> Oh, okay. I'm sorry. >> That's okay. >> Yeah, I'm looking at it. The expenditures from the year-to- date um expenditures that Mark sent recently. >> So, I'm opening that right now. >> Yeah, I could have um >> which do you know which page it is? It's 56 pages. >> Oh,
>> it's towards the end because it's one of the last budgets. >> 630. >> It looks like a $60,000 budget. at the same rate. >> It just looked like we had exceeded the expenditures, but you were budgeting for like almost 20,000 last
>> after 28. I started at 25. >> But is it 28 when you got benefits? >> Well, I I don't think it's accurate. >> I do have not adding it. It's not looking for
number 630 recreation. department, >> right? >> So, I'm not looking at this. I'm looking at his financial report. >> Says 35. >> That's why it's important. >> Here it says, that's why.
This is all fun. Oh, here it is. Recreation. So, >> there it is. Recreation. >> Recreation. This date on the report that I send >> looks like it's
rent shows 28,000 part-time wages. Is that what you're saying? >> I'm talking about the expenditures, not n not personnel. >> 570. >> I don't have a question on the personality expenditures. >> 11,870. >> Maybe I can explain it.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I just have like she we're just trying to get the accurate number exceeded what was budgeted for expenditures. >> So I have 11,870 >> spent as of April 2nd for the expenditures. Okay, then I I wrote it wrong then. I'm just double checking
that cuz I had 41. >> You have 11,000. >> Yeah. 11,870. >> Okay. >> Date actual if I'm reading this right. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's what I see as well. >> Yeah. Okay. 11,000. >> Mhm.
>> Okay. >> Any other questions? >> Now we get to the fun stuff. Ah, I can wait. >> So, would you like me to jump into the budgets or would you like me to talk about revenue >> if it has to do with the 10 months
versus 12 months and cushions and all that kind of stuff? Yeah, we we'd love to hear that explanation. So, in the process of looking at their budgets going into this year, so the budget was already kind of written out
and I went over it to look at what they were spending, what I decided I needed, seeing where that all matched up. I started looking at the revenue calculation that they had. And I'm here to to clear up any
disunder understanding. There's no hidden money. This is for the public as well. There's no hidden money out there. I didn't walk in to the water department and find, you know, a case of money. I found was that the way they
were managing their revenue or the way they were calculating their revenue didn't make sense to me. So, I dove into it deeper and I found some paperwork from years ago where somebody had instructed
how to figure out their revenue for the next year at this time of the year. Now, this is just an opinion, but in my opinion, if you go back three or four or five years, I believe the town manager asked
for revenue numbers later in the year. Somewhere along the line, that number started creeping up closer to February, closer to January. I I was told this year Mark asked for them at the end of January.
When I looked at how they did their revenue, they were calculating what they received up until that point, right? And there's a few things. It's not just your water bill. It's also interest. It's also capital. There's a few revenue line items. But then when it came to that
that calculating of what the revenue will be for the second half of the year that hadn't taken place, they were calculating it from April to June 30th. My first question was why are we doing that and
I answers I've received was this is the way it was taught right other answers I've received is that was a way to increase the debt service for future projects not debt service I keep using that word uh the retained earnings for
future projects um I think it's kind of a combination of something in between I think that at the time maybe the revenue was being requested at the end of February or sometime in February. So it made a
little bit of sense. They were giving you April to to June. But the first thing I said was, "Well, stop. I noticed that there's two months missing. recalculate it with those two months in for what we took in last year from February to June
instead of April to June. And lo and behold, there was a surplus of money. In the past years, this surplus of money would show up at the end of the year, right? Again, it wasn't hidden money. Um, I've seen the retained earnings and
I started digging down to Yeah. Uh Mark's asked me the question of how long has this been going on? I don't know. I can tell you that in 2020 the retained earnings was
um let's just take water for instance. In 2020 your retained earnings surplus was $2.5 million. In that particular year, um, it went up by 33, I'm sorry, by $335,000.
21, you had a bad year. I would imagine that was COVID. That was probably um, so your retained earnings actually went down a little bit, so they must have had to use money for the budget. But then when you start in 2022, it went up by
$25,000. I'm sorry, I keep saying 25. it went up by $250,000. So at the end of the year there was a surplus of $250,000. In 2023 it went up by $700,000. Rough
number $696. In 2024 it went up by $700,000 and then in 2025 it went up by $1.3 million. So,
there's a surplus of money, retained earnings, which as of the date I received this was sometime in early March. Uh, the water had $5.2 million in retained earnings.
It seems like an astronomical number. It's really not. It's more than I particularly will manage this retained earning. um you're supposed to take um your biggest asset, which at this point is the water treatment plant, and you're
supposed to have enough to um to cover a major disaster, right? Like a a real major issue over there. And $5.2 million is more than enough to cover that, if not excessive. There's a lot of plans in place for the
town, right? moving forward with with with sewer and moving forward with with uh water replacements. So, it's nice that we have this nest egg. I don't want to keep doing that, though. We have needs that I'll I'll I'll
portray to you in the next when I show you the budgets that some of that retained earnings that I know we're going to have at the end of this year should be put into the budget to be used today, not >> five years. What's the actual percentage
that's in there? The DLS um DLS wants between a 10 and 20% surplus in retained earnings for those emergencies, which is a pretty sizable number, I would think, on your budget. >> It is, but it's 10 to 20% of your biggest asset,
right? Or even if you took it even if you took it as 10 to 20% of your annual budget, we have $5 million in there. So, what I'm saying to you is I can't speak for why and how things went the way they went. And I I know you don't
want me to keep saying that, but I can, right? I don't know what went in somebody's mind four years ago. What I can tell you that is from managing budgets elsewhere and being a part of that financial system that I can show you tonight that our
projection to take some of that money that I would tell you is going to end up being retained earnings at the end of the year and put that into the budget now and still have a surplus which which is what Mark and myself discussed going forward. Like I'm gonna I'm gonna give
you this annually. what I think the you know the retained earnings will be at the end of the year which you can see in our budgets and we can go over that in a minute >> and Justin so 25% is the optimum balance for that which is roughly three months of operating expenses and what I was
what I was told just asking some people >> they did a very raw accounting thing of saying let's only look at 10 months worth of revenue and that gives us two months worth of the surplus that's why they based everything on it was just a very simple down and dirty way of looking to have a little bit of a syrup
by looking at only the 10 bucks. There was nothing hidden like you said. >> I really don't think there was anything malicious. I really from the bottom of my heart. I know the people that are working there. I've gotten to know them. They're working extremely hard to come up with this budget. Where I say this
probably could have and should have been caught was at the end of the year every year when somebody said, "Hey, we're putting 25 $250,000 into retaining earnings. Hey, this year we're putting $700,000 into retain earnings and hey,
this year we're putting $1.3 million into retaining earnings." You put a $1.3 million into retain earnings when your budget could have used that. So again, I again, not to get into it, but I I've seen that in the past. They've come to
you and said, "We need to borrow retained earnings to make our budget whole for next year." Like I I saw that like it might have happened last year or the year before that they came to you at the beginning of the year where I am tonight and said, "My projected revenue is $300,000 shy. I'm going to take that
out of retained earnings." And and like the people that you are, you said, "Yeah, absolutely. We got to make this budget whole." and then at the end of the year they put 700,000 into retained earnings. It just doesn't make doesn't make sense.
>> So So this year's budget puts 420 into retained earnings in water and puts >> after I increased >> 570 into retained earnings in sewer >> in estimated estimation. All right. Obviously that's an inter.
>> No, that's okay. >> Well, I should say in projected revenue for next year. So a week ago, two weeks ago, you know, I I don't know whether it was during the meeting, after the meeting,
you know, I asked you, Mark, this doesn't impact our financial reporting though, does it? Because it sounds kind of wonky that what we've reported is somehow off. Well, it all
gets reconciled in the recap that we have to file with the state every year. So, so at the end of the year after all the collections come in and the treasurers reconciles the accounts to the actual cash we brought in, you know, minus the
uncollectible accounts. It equals the amounts that we build build minus unaccounted for water which is like hydrants, fires. Um, but it it does tie out at the end of the year. It's just a
budgeting way that I wouldn't have estimated. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> That's a great way of putting it. I wouldn't manage this department like that, >> but but the state reports that were filed were correct to the best of our knowledge. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. and and our auditors or whatever didn't question how are you putting this money in >> it I don't want to say it's a semantic but it really is it's really I would expect you guys at some point to
say Justin why are you putting $1.2 $2 million in savings. And at that time, I might say, "Well, because I know we have a water man to replace, and I know it's going to cost this, and I know I'm going to ask you, but I Mark will tell you that, you know, from a fiscal
standpoint, you probably don't want to use cash to pay for all that anyways. You you want to borrow money, right? You don't want to We talked about this a little bit about how much cash you want to use a particular time on a project." Um, but if you came to me and said, "Why are
you putting $1.2 million into that >> and I tell you because I know something's coming up or I I want to plan for a rainy day." You might say, "Well, this guy's frugal. He's smart." But there's a fine line in between that when you do it for your own house and when you do it for a municipality,
right? Like >> it's great. It's It's great to bank for tomorrow, >> but not at the demise of today. And I don't want to say they did. And that don't please don't anybody understand it differently.
>> It was just a different >> I'm on Facebook. I I do see them, right? Like it was just a different standpoint that I don't think is good for the town. >> Okay. >> We end up in the black this way and in the positive and but it's it's just more
effective. It's a better service to the finance committee, the the town meeting, the select board that relies on our reports to to do it the transparent way that we're putting forward. >> That's perfectly put right there. At the end of this year, if I come back and say, "Hey, our revenue prediction was off.
>> We've got $800,000 going instead of five." You're going to say, "Wow, that's great." But if I came to you and said, "Hey, my revenue was off. We got $6 million." You'd be like, "Well, that doesn't make much sense." So, I'm I'm hoping since I'm not on
social media and I'm I can just imagine that this this issue is that you guys are going to explain it at town meeting. >> Absolutely. >> I'm not going to be able to. >> Absolutely.
Mr. Chair, >> Zach, >> so I'll ask the question that probably uh most residents are asking at the moment that may be watching this at home. Few years ago, we did a rate study. They did a rate study and there was a significant water increase over a
multi-year step. >> We're sitting on this surplus budget. I understand the needs of the water that you know whether it's PAS, whether it's water manes or whatever. Um, we don't know what accounting was used when those
studies were done. So, what about relief for the homeowner? >> So, a a rate a rate study in general goes by a couple of factors and one one factor is what is your 10-year outlook?
What is your 20-year outlook? What projects are going to come forth? As you know, you have a PAS issue in town. That rate study was done with those things in mind. So in answer to your question, no, that money is allocated
and is going to be spent and needs to be spent. Absolutely needs to be spent. We need to do a new rate study to figure out where we're going to be in the next 5 to 10 years because you're supposed to do them every 5 years. And I believe I saw seven years ago you guys did the last one. Um, so there are projects that
these dollars are are going to be allocated to. We're talking about a West Main Street extension. Some of these CIP requests that I know we're going to talk about in in a minute or so, some of them are to, you know, to improve and advance the town. The other
thing I'm going to say when it comes to sewer, and I can speak on this, that when you as a town first started installing sewer, you didn't have enough money to be able to afford that, right?
Because you're relying on people paying sewer bills to do your infrastructure going forward. So that's where a lot of these, you know, betterments came in and money that was forced at that time that now you're in a better position where we can afford to to not do that kind of
stuff. So those are the kind of things that the rate payers are going to see in the future. They're going to get a bigger bang for their buck and and I definitely see the need in this town for that. >> Random,
>> I was just going to ask having 5 million. No more questions, please. >> Um, in the bank, >> you're at the wrong meeting. >> Do we earn interest on that? The reason Okay, reason why I'm asking. >> Mark might be better apt to tell what percentage of interest, but yes. >> Yeah, probably not very much, but but
yes, >> the reason why I ask is, you know, I think it was two years ago when, you know, the town found all this money. I think it was 1 point something million that was earned on interest that wasn't paid for the projects. I know that's 30
million, but it's 1.6. You're still a couple hundred thousand worth of interest if it's five. >> Yeah. So, I guess we front end and loaded the borrowing for for this building and the senior community center. >> Well, yeah. >> So, we were also paying interest at the same time. We're earning interest,
>> but we still might have been a net zero, but >> I think >> Well, actually, investments did really good that year. >> Yeah. I just didn't know it was 5,000, 10,000, 100,000. But that's just curious. >> So, we'll see if
>> it's invested very conservatively under the Massachusetts laws that >> Okay. >> Unless it's a trust fund, we can't invest it in a aggressive. >> No, I know you want, but but it's a safe
>> diversified. Well, most of you local banks over the last couple years have had consist of just >> liquid money markets at three and change, which >> Yeah. So, it's probably in there. It's probably in the three if I had to guess.
>> Find out exact if you want. >> Um Justin, just um on the trying to get it right back to your spreadsheets. >> $50,000 increase in the highways line item. >> Yeah, you on water and then 226 on sewer. That's a $388,000
increase. Are we talking more sal more more hires and stuff? >> If I don't mean to cut you off. If you want to go into the budgets now that I wanted to make sure everybody was >> at least satisfied with my answer because I knew that was going to be a a
topic for tonight. >> Uh Gavin, did you have something on >> small thing? I was looking at the auditor's report and I think I saw 182,000 of interest in the last auditor. Thank you. Good morning. >> Yeah, I just happen to be focused about
what the audits report. I was what did they say? And it was nothing interesting on this topic. >> So, let's jump into water if you don't mind. Water uh budget >> and and as you mentioned, you see an increase in a couple of line items.
Number one is uh uh the salary increase. Um, and I'm I'm gonna kind of explain this as I'm going to explain this as one, water and sewer, but it's really water and sewer separately. Right? So,
you have a need in this town to have a superintendent of water 100% for water. You have a need in this town to have a superintendent of sewer 100% in sewer.
What you have is uh a great guy in Frank that's trying to manage both sides. And from a regulatory standpoint, it's to the point this day and age where that's impossible. I'm proposing to separate those two. So,
however you slice the pie, the superintendent's salary was 50% water and 50% sewer. What I'm looking to do is take one of their salaries and put it to water and one of their salaries to put to sewer. So you'll see an increase in both of those line items in both
budgets. Along with that, I'm doing the same thing with the foreman. You have a foreman of water which is a union position. Right now you have a warm a foreman of water and sewer combined. Um if you look at the way his dent day is spent, he doesn't have time to to do
sewer. He's 90% water. So along with that superintendent, I'm looking to to split that um foreman position as well. So you'll have a foreman paid out of water. You'll have a foreman paid out of
sewer. His duties will be those those uh those individual divisions. I'm going to call them divisions now because they're no longer departments. and there will be no need at this point to back the assistant superintendent that you once
had. So there is uh there is some of that money that's incorporated into these positions. >> So that's 206,000 of the 388. I'm just trying to >> What What are you at right now? I'm sorry. In particular. >> So So if you split those out, you add a
second Frank at 112 and a second guy at 94, that's $26,000. If you got a $38,000 increase in your salary lines across your three departments, I'm going to assume that something of that is yours. Is that
>> Yeah, my salary my salary splits between highway, water, and sewer. >> And I'm just trying to so we all see where 380 comes from. I'm sorry. Big bump. >> Yes. >> So you're part of that? I think I'm part of that 60 170 or something like that. I'm thinking >> so there is a uh there was the
assistant. So call that a wash. There was an assistant, not a wash, but there was an assistant water superintendent that was paid out of both of those. Some of that is now gone. It's absorbed by my salary, but my salary is split between water, sewer, and highway.
>> So, two new positions over. >> Two new positions coming on. >> One at 112 and one at 94. >> Let me just before I say that, >> is that >> Yeah. 112 and >> 90 would be another 165 bill. It wasn't in
last year's budget either. So that's >> right. >> So that's a third position if you will. Yes. Is showing up in this budget. >> Correct. But the delta is only two positions cuz they had that other position. >> But I don't know if it's >> um
>> Go ahead. I'm not trying to confuse things. That's why I was trying to take them one at a time. >> But level fund. This isn't level. This is a >> no water and sewer is not level funded. >> I'm not proposing a level fund. I'm
going to go on and tell you what the other additions are for >> and and the salary comes out of $10 or >> the salary is going to come out of revenue that I'm projecting for this year. >> Okay.
>> So, your revenue which we have to prove it out. >> We have proved it out. Your revenue is enough to cover my proposals plus put the numbers Mark said. I'm sorry.
>> My I'm using my own sheets. >> So 420,000 at the end of the year in water and 571 in sewer. >> We're still putting what? 3/4 of a million total. >> Yep. into retain earnings.
>> Just had a discussion down here too. Um the benefit side of the equations um that shows up in the town side mark like this Google and all that like their benefits. >> It's enterprise. >> That's the way coming out of that should be shown in here somewhere or not. I don't see it.
>> It's enterprise. So it shows up as an indirect. If you look at that other line, the interfont operation transfers, >> which which we did take a fresh look at this year and squeezed >> probably close to another 100,000.
>> It's a general fund from enterprise. >> That's from their their account your your account town hall >> that covers that covers benefits and all the other town hall. Yeah. >> That doesn't show up that doesn't show up or go to town meeting anywhere. Um it it does as the indirect line on this
budget. >> It's right there on my budget. >> So it's which which line is it? You want to show them? >> Yeah, it's uh if you look at line 561 right above that into fund operating transfer for water would be 681,000 and for sewer it would be 614
I'm sorry to the general fund >> for benefits. Yeah. For for benefits, you know, a percentage of the accountant's salary, the town manager salary, the the treasurer salary, all the Yeah. >> Mr. Chair,
>> can I ask um why the town manager recommendation for the salary lines is is higher than the department request on both of those? >> Because I had forgot to add in a contractual uh increase to the superintendent of highways. >> So, that's not in the sheet here. Once
yeah, once it got to Mark, Mark caught it. >> Because I'm still seeing the bottom line is what? >> Oh, yeah. He missed the number. I I I found the number that he missed. He didn't want to give someone a raise. >> But she's seeing that the total down here is the same.
>> Oh, that's the same. Yeah. >> Yeah, that's probably cut and paste error. >> Cut and paste. So I like the bottom line and it it matches up. >> So the other few items and and just to be again transparent, the other few
items that you'll see that I'm asking for an increase for for this year for both of those items are professional service and engineering services. Uh those are kind of twofold. Um the professional service and part of the
engineering services is for software. Um so the town right now when it comes to water and sewer and even highway for that matter um has no maintenance programs. Um what I mean by that is
everything's logged on paper. So um what did you do today? It's all here on paper. What did you do yesterday? It's all here on paper. Um I need you to go do this. It's verbal. I'm putting the town into this century with,
and I don't mean that disrespectfully, but with a software, a maintenance software. As you know, the town has an app called Cclick Fix right now that you're allowed that you guys use, which is an outward facing. It's for the residents. It's for uh even employees. I
I tell them, you see a pothole, you put into click fix. What I need now is at right now those cclick fixes go to somebody's email. So somebody gets an email saying there's a pothole on Elm Street and then I say to you go fix the pothole on Elm Street. And I'm not saying they're not recording it and
logging it, but it's on paper. What I need to institute is a maintenance software that says Cclick Fix automatically creates and generates a work order. That worker already gets assigned to you or you. You go out, you complete the job, you close out the work
order, and then in turn that goes back to the resident saying you were heard and this job has been completed. Why do we need that? Multiple reasons. I want to be able to come to you and justify my operating expenses with real data. These are what the guys are doing. This is
what they're doing all day long. These are the amount of jobs they're doing. It would be eye opening to the public to realize exactly what they are doing. Um but then it's also for for uh you know for managerial purposes. How long does
it take us to do these jobs? You know do we need an add added person? Is there equipment that we need? And then finally, also for regulatory compliance, water and sewer, where we're regulatory regulatory, I think that's the word, um,
go mandated to fill out paperwork every year that that shows that data. So, what ends up happening is some some people stand there and go through work orders and go through assignments and go through chemicals, and we're looking to
to get that all in software. Uh on top of that, um and Mark probably will talk more about this, but there's procurement software that um I'm begging Mark to to buy into, which I know he does. Again,
everything we do in town is on paper. Um >> so there's a bigger discussion. >> Time balances on the accounting software. Need need. I would also assume that this also gives you real time
records in that someone doesn't come up and say, "Hey, you need to fix X and you're like, I thought we already did that." >> Yes, absolutely. How much money have we spent on this valve over the past three
years? Um, and I'm not saying it's not in people's heads because honestly it is. But the other need that the town has and the other piece of the software that the town is missing is the GIS data. So we did pay a company I think seven years
ago to come into town and GIS our assets. What's an asset? A fire hydrant, uh, a crosswalk, a tree, those are all your town's assets. hasn't been done since. A lot of growth has happened in the last
seven years in the town of Norton. There's a lot of data that's not there. They weren't capturing everything. They when they when they did it, they did it kind of out of necessity and they did capture, you know, some of the assets of town, but not the entire holistic. So that's the other software, a real-time
GIS system that 99% of the towns and and cities out there are using that incorporates all that data and and you know, >> isn't there a downside to that though that the state's going to say, "Look at the value of this town. We're not giving
you a dime." >> No, absolutely not. >> Okay. >> Absolutely not. >> Um Mark, just a housekeeping on the sewer budget. Um, you get a column off another column and you get 5,000 next to the pot sewer
treatment plan which should be blanked out. That 5,000 should be shifted down one line. Yes. >> So all those columns add up >> and then >> we don't pay nothing to T or do we? >> Okay. I I have had bills to Totten. >> Oh, we do pay Taton. We do send them
sewer. >> Yeah, we we pay them. >> That's an accurate number. No, so that 5,000 going across the board was blank for all the other years, the last three years. >> I think >> and if you look at if you shift that down all so the 5,000 11,000 2500 12,000
>> Oh, I see what you're saying. >> I I think you have the same totals, but if you shift them down, it'll look better. >> So, it shows the right thing. And secondly, would you explain to me just one last time on both the water and sewer? What is the benefit of the budget surplus of almost a million dollars that
help the town side or what what what is that for? >> What do you mean by that down the end? >> Down the bottom that's what that's what only that's not yours. You got it down under your column, Mark, as um 571 291 for budget surplus on >> That's just what we put That's just the
the column we put it in after Mark asked me to to show you that's what we think we're going to have going into retained earnings at the end of this season. >> So, will it does it directly benefit like the general fund side of it? We can't like hire another firefighter with
with the surplus water sewer. Um if we do use it to stimulate new growth then that will allow us to provide more funds for general funded positions um fire, police, schools. >> So that's the retained earning part
again and it's just um you're just show you're breaking it out in advance rather than just having something there, >> right? And instead of putting 1.3 million in like we did last year, we're putting 500,000 in and using some of it for our budget. >> In floor,
you're putting almost a million. >> Thank you. Lot of thinking going on. >> I think that concludes my time here. project. >> I think fire is for us today. Or do you
want to do >> War? Do you guys have questions for fire? I mean, Sean's been very patient. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Are you here? >> Justin does have a lot more projects to discuss. >> Well, I think he got his extra 100,000,
so I think he's good. No, >> I'm very We're very happy about that. Yes. But I'm obviously happy to answer any questions if you have any. Do you have any I guess we'll talk about this next time. I don't know if you have any capital >> in capital. There's Go ahead. You want to talk? >> I can I can go over there if you want. I can pull it up real quick for you.
>> Can I ask a question first? Um is there is this isn't the updated one then? The one that you gave us because you're going to add something has the position been added in here. >> 100,000. >> No, it has not has not been added. >> So, can can we get an update for police and fire on those?
>> Uh, sure. I'm I'm hoping to update it again, but I can give you an interm update with >> Oh, you can wait until it's a final the final is fine. >> Good. Let me answer your question, Paula. >> Yes. >> So, for for capital, we had requested
40,700 for turnout gear. Um, you guys remember that expires every 10 years. We try to maintain two sets per person. >> So, and we try to space it out so that we're not, you know, replacing 40 sets all in one year. Um and then uh our second request request was for $649,800
just for the apparatus payment. That would be 305 for that payment. Um we also had AEDs on our list. We found some alternative funding for that. Um in the gas meters that we had on our our list, we were able to get a grant from the state for like $15,200 I think it was to help uh pay for that
as well. So that was good news for us >> in the town. So, if we do all the capital request and the 1.2 million um like we talked about earlier, that would let's see here. I had over here
1.2 6. Yeah, I'm showing a different number. Somehow this didn't add up right, but anyway. So, that'll be about 700. It would be about 1.9 we take out of there. Right now we have 3,54,970 in the ambulance count as of the end of
March. Okay. >> So in um our conservative average what we're basing on 5 years is uh 1.662 uh million a year and then uh so that breaks down to about $138,500 a month just you know so you guys can
have a a picture what that looks like. So, um, we with all that coming out between now and the beginning of next fiscal year be about $415,000 additional that would go into that account. >> So, so we are confident that the amount reserve account is stable there. I mean,
Deputy Wilson's with us. I don't know if he wants to add anything up. >> I mean, Kathy wanted, but yeah, I mean, we we've looked at all the figures and stuff. So, yeah, I have it all mapped out projected over the next five years. Yeah. So, um, we should be able to we should be okay to do that. So, that
would leave us Oh, that's what that's what my numbers were. That would leave us with a balance of 1,164470 after taking out the 1.2649 and then 40,700. That's why I gave you the other figure of you can also add another $415,000 onto that if you're thinking fiscal year- wise.
And then I have my capital. I don't want to bore you to either, but I have the capital mapped out in that 1.2 two in the figure for 1.1 based on what we decided to take off to supplement the budget over the next 5 years. So, um we'll be okay once we get rid of that uh the apparatus payments, we're going to be in good shape. Excuse me. We have an
ambulance coming up in a couple of years for it'll probably be about 525,000. Um but they take about 3 years to almost 3 years to come in now, too. So, um yeah. Yeah. The last last one was three and a half years. >> No kidding. Yeah. So, surprisingly, I
just found out the one that we have on order uh is going to probably be about three months sooner than uh than we expected, but it's still almost three three years. So, my point of telling you that is even though that's that's that's coming up in maybe like another year or so, we could talk to the vendor and
possibly, you know, order that ambulance without signing a contract. And because it's such a hot commodity because it takes so long to come in, even for some reason, you know, 2 years later, we said, "No, we can't do that." They would they would easily sell it to somebody else. you hearing of them being able to do that and that would kind of free up
so we're not taking that $500,000 out next year and getting that number even closer to you know uh to being too low than we would like. So >> and you stay ahead of inflation if you can lock in the price. >> What's that? >> You stay ahead of inflation if you can lock in the price. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's that's what we
benefited when we ordered those two apparatus at the same time. We saved over $200,000 by doing it that way. And we got a 5% discount by doing a bulk purchase. >> So Chief, you guys have done a good job at buying that one. forecasting out, you know, like the the apparatus, the ladder, and then it'll be
paid off before we even get probably the it's going to be close. And keep in mind, another another bit of good news is that when when that 649800 that was calculating uh interest over that time, too, right? So, this is, you know, if the town meeting approves it this July, we'll actually have three
payments basically waiting there, right? And I don't want to bore you while I find >> interest all the time because we haven't paid it to them, >> right? So, we're gonna when that gets closer, we can talk about how, you know, how we want to bond that or maybe we can just pay pay it outright. Um, in addition, we also worked out a deal with them. If we do a payment to them, like
say when the chassis of the the fire engine is is done, it's still in the factory, but we'll have a VIN number and everything like that. I I can pull out the numbers if you want the exact ones, but we're going to save probably like 15 $18,000 on that. And we worked out the same thing with uh with a new tower truck. When the chassis is done, we're
going to get like a 17,000 discount by paying for that. And then when the aerial part of it constructed, we make another payment and we're going to save probably another 15 or 20,000 for that. So we're going to save a good amount of money just by working out those things and we have the money already sitting there ready to pay them for when that
stuff comes in without having to go to borrow right away. >> So that so that leads to my my question. You got two years the 650,000 drops off. >> Um what are your needs beyond that for equipment? I understand you're always going to be in ambulances. You got to stay. >> Yeah. >> What is the condition of all the other
trucks and equipment that you have? >> We're in pretty good usually. >> Yeah. No, no, we're we're in pretty we're in pretty good shape. The ambulance I have uh FY28 coming up. I'm just trying to find big things for you. Obviously the payments for the next two years that we just talked about. Um the fire gear in FY29. Uh right now I'm
projecting $108,000 in some and maybe 322 for fire gear. So that's going to jump up because we have a lot of sets that going to expire that year. Um FY30 I have $160,000 for uh an SCBA filling station to fill our fill our air bottles. Um that's that's pretty
expensive. >> So no major major like >> No, I'm just scanning it real quick just to make sure. Um then we have an ambulance again on here FY32. I'm estimating just inflation $650,000. Hopefully it's less than that. >> You know that's outrageous. >> It's been going up. Sounds outrageous.
>> You used to think like like 3 or 4 5% and it's been going up like 8 10% a year. Yeah, it's it's unbelievable. But um >> why I just pick them up in a Rolls-Royce and be cheaper, >> right? >> And then the next pumper replacement on the on the capital plan is an FY34.
Um and I'm going to have to adjust that cuz that's um that's showing $900,000 on there and it's going to be way more than that. >> So in two years time, you're going to have a lot of cash. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then we'll not only that, but we'll also be able to to kind of tuck some away to build up for some of these other things that are coming
up, you know, maybe six years from now, seven years from now. I'm sure uh you know you'll probably be through another >> rate increase in a couple of years time. >> Yeah, every couple years we look at it and um >> you just did one about 6 months ago. >> Uh I think it was a little bit longer than that, but it wasn't that long ago. Every couple years we look at it. Our
bill and company helps us with it and we also have uh like a chief spreadsheet that we kind of share with each other what our rates are so we can compare both Bristol and Northol counties and stuff. So we try to keep an eye on that. So >> Paul,
>> so the chief alsie chief also has in his um um information the plausible separation expenses for two bags for 66. >> Yeah, it's it's almost a couple hundred,000 and keeping just keep in mind that's that's at this this current
rate, >> right? >> So you know whatever they get for pay increases will you know obviously increase that by that same percentage. That's what you're looking at with the 200,000 cash that come. >> Yeah, we're actually kind of short because we had two 200 thou two 100,000s
this year and we have the 200,000s next year. So, yeah, >> planned and we might have unplanned ones too. We >> go to keep that around a million bucks, right? >> That's that's the goal. But hopefully we can rearrange the
contracts where these will be a thing of the past, you know, because you get a pension when you retire. You know, maybe the the new people won't expect to get an additional amount plus a pension. >> The history of that was back in Prop 2
and a half raises. They gave that as an incentive at the time buyback. But then guys weren't using sick leave if you had to hire in at time of the half. So town's saving half time indirectly, but you're also paying it future dollars with money you saved 20
years ago. So So again, it doesn't always pay out that well, and it is a very pricey uh lineup. >> Have any answer any other questions? >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Chief. >> No, thank you. Appreciate you guys. >> You're welcome to stay. Uh,
what do you think about that? I'm happy to stay. >> Thank you, Melissa. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. Have a good night. >> So, does this committee want to proceed? Do you want to go in
order of warrant articles? Um, if so, I'd suggest I mean, they're all adequately noticed in my opinion. I'd suggest you could go right to number one and vote the school roof or we could take care of DPW's projects while they're here. >> I'm good either way.
>> I I guess I would do DPW order or GPW. >> No, I I do GPW. Anything with that reverse? Sure. >> So the first warrant article is number two, which is the chapter 90 transportation aid program. >> I already voted that.
>> All right. Thank you. Tell me what you want me to talk about. >> Um, so capital. So article number nine. >> Article number nine is capital appropriation. So that's the Excel chart in the back of your packet that has four subtotals
from the capital improvement ambulance reserve water and sewer and you're the bulk of that. I have highway water and sewer. >> So the highway request for capital improvements is a new asphalt box. Uh what we call a hot box that was for the
potholes pothole replace uh filling that we talked about. Um currently the asphalt hot box that we're using 30 years old. Um if you've ever seen a asphalt hot box, they did not designed to last 30 years. I mean, it's it's hot asphalt that you
try to keep clean, but doesn't work. So, it's time to replace that. We have two currently in our system. Uh, one is one goes in the back of a truck so that you can do long patches like a like a trench fill or something, and the other one is
a um a portable one that you shove out of to fill potholes. It's the It's the one that we shove out of that we're looking to replace uh for $70,000. The other request for highway is for a six-wheeler with a sander and a plow. Um
I think it was brought up at the capital improvement u committee to kind of price that out over five years. Um >> yes. >> So the you know the request originally was uh $280,000. Uh that's for a six-wheeler with a um
don't quote me five ton sander on the back. I have it if you really want to know. Um, correct. >> What is it? >> And a plow. >> And a plow. Yep. Um, the again the unit that we used this past year is uh 30 years old. Um, it's seen a lot of
storms. Um, the heat in it doesn't work. Uh, the hydraulic fluid leaks and it's not repairable anymore. Parts are impossible to come by. And I think the crew has done an outstanding job keeping it going for 30 years.
So, uh, that's the highway requests and stop me if you have a question for those or I'll move on to water. >> I just have one question. Um, the paving in front of the middle school, are you going to be involved in that or is the school handling that themselves?
>> We're we're involved. >> Okay. >> We're going through our uh surge contract. Um, >> we gave them a good quote for what to ask for. >> Okay. Very good. Um Justin, the asphalt box also gets used by the school
department and water department when they're digging trenches and patching. Is there any reason that couldn't come out of that instead? >> Um >> truthfully. >> Yeah. No, I'm I'm and I'm all for that. I'm all for that portions of it. And you'll see that I am doing that as we
go. I'm not sure that would be an item that you'd want to do that with. That's my best answer. >> Okay. It's a good try. always trying. >> I you know that that's the perfect example of why one DPW makes more sense.
We have assets that we need to share, right? Um but >> we always have, but again, here's a chance to maybe write it off out of that container. That's all. >> Correct. And you'll see later on, give me a minute and we'll we'll get to the next one. Any other questions for the two highway items?
So next I have water and you'll see that there's a again uh year one of five for a new loader. Um the new loader is the is the piece of equipment that you saw uh you know removing snow this past year
from the side of the road because the plows can no longer push it. It was too heavy. Uh the load is also used to load trucks, right? So, it's used uh to load salt, sand, dirt, uh whatever we're loading. Uh currently, we have one
within the department that was purchased from the highway department. >> Um water also has a need for a loader. Um water uses the loader. Even during the snowstorms, water needed this the the
loader to um to clear the well sites, to clear the sewer sites. Um, we ended up going back and forth and again, if you know what a loader is, it's a pretty big size equipment that doesn't go very quick on the on the roads. So, we would have a guy from Highway Department going
across town to pull somebody out of the side of the road to clear and then come back. Uh, it just doesn't make any sense. So, for water and sewer to have their own loader stationed at the water and sewer department on the other side of town, uh, just makes 100% of sense, justifiable for water and sewer to pay
for that loader. And there's a a price of $13,000 for a plow out of water. That's a truck that was purchased last year or the year before. Due to budget constraints, they didn't purchase a plow with it, I'm told. I want to I
want to put a plow on that to be able to utilize it. So that's what that request again paid for out of snow. Um paid for out of water because it's going to be used to clear water assets. Sewer, you're going to see the other half. I'm sorry.
Sewer is missing one item. So sewer is paying the other half of that uh that loader investment. Oh, that's >> it's probably in another one item. I'm sorry. It's a different water. >> So So the only request from Capitol for sewer is the other half of that loader.
>> So So if you have questions for Justin, that that's great. The other items either Zach or myself can speak to. We were there at the capital. >> If you want to do that, I'm going to use the restroom. >> So the load is $600,000 total. >> Nope. The loader is 60 time 5. 300,000.
>> 300,000. >> It's a little under that. It's like 280, but once we fully equip it and get a radio and all that, you'll be up to 300. >> The only thing before you take off is, you know, seeing now it's under your hat. >> Pickle ball courts. >> Yep. It's on here, too. I'm sorry. Yep.
Pickle ball courts. $40,000. >> What the history? I People may have forgotten. Okay. >> Allocated some money. Go ahead. >> So, some money was allocated over the past year um two years for it. Um there's a
there's a uh growing request to put in pickle ball courts. Um >> a lot of requests. >> So the money that was allocated and I don't have that in front of me, but I believe it was 16,000. >> $16,000.
Uh the courts um the courts are going to be over $60,000 to put in. Um and there's also a $10,000. Um, again, I wish Melissa was here to give her props, but her park program revolving fund has $10,000 to
put into that as well. So, we're asking for a capital improvement uh request of $40,000 to pay the um the delta of that. And I will say it to everybody, this is for um the tennis courts over at the
middle school that we're turning them into pickle ball courts. We're going to do two tennis courts, which comes out to six pickle ball courts. Uh originally, Melissa came to me and said, "We're going to look into having the the the courts resurfaced and uh composite and
painted." Um after speaking with the highway department, who has some experience with those particular courts, I believe they're built on top of very soft ground. Somebody said a septic system, but I don't think it's a septic system. I think it's an old
Anyways, uh there's no faith that resurfacing that court will last. It's going to continue to move every year. So, what we're proposing is if anybody's been to Gillette Stadium, they have uh an outdoor pickle ball court now where the ice rink goes in the wintertime.
They're portable uh or temporary, I don't know, how do you want to call it? They're they're uh tiles that clamp together. Um and and they paint them. So you'll have some beautiful quartz that if something should happen to underneath, we can take off. We could,
you know, redo the foundation, put them back down. So, uh it it seems to make the most sense for what the area we have to to play in. >> And just as an aside, >> no, I'm not going to play with you. >> We have no tennis courts left in
>> You will. You'll have two of the four will continue to be tennis. >> Okay. >> But then I believe there are people here from school. School has their own tennis courts. >> Correct. They built new ones behind the middle school. >> Yeah. >> Not behind the
>> I think these tennis courts if I'm if I'm correct the school basically said we're no longer going to use them as tennis courts. Correct. >> And they gave them to parks and recreation and they've been using them since. >> Yep. The school department paving them. What is it being paid? That's the middle school area that um
>> the house used to be up front where they used parking. Yeah. Okay. >> So I think 50,000 was allocated at one time. >> It was 50,000 allocated last year. Was not going near enough. >> So the balance was >> and again we've priced this out through our surge contract. We don't do it
internally. uh we manage it but it'll be done by a subcontractor and uh the balance is being requested this year from the school but to give to us. So >> you're looking to have these done both those projects at the middle school this summer. >> Correct. I promised I promised people in
this town that they would be playing pickle pickle ball this year. So uh you have my word >> and have a place to park >> and have a place to park. And I yeah, I think that not only helps those courts, but I know the bus situation over there and parents, I'm told, >> park there and it's just not a good a
good setup over there, >> especially when it snows. >> Especially when it snows. >> The police department parking lot improvements. Are you handling that, too? >> Yes, I am. Uh, again, chief, I think, requested money last year. It was $25,000 more. Is that
>> No, no. I Yeah, no enough. I was going to think >> I I don't even know. I don't think that was his request. I think that's what he was told he could have. I don't I don't know the situation, but half of their police station is in dire need of uh of a resurfacing. Um we're pretty confident
we're going to get the whole police station parking lot done for that money. So So the delta of what we're asking for this year again is going to be through our surge contract. Um we've talked it over with uh the police chief and uh there's some lighting there he thinks we can remove and and we're going to get
that done this construction season as well. Right. And that's in addition to a $25,000 grant from the state that would have paid a couple parking spots. >> That's where the $25,000 came from. I apologize. >> Bonnie. >> Yeah. You mentioned that the $10,000
revolving fund. I'm pointing at her like she's still here. Um from the recreation department is going to help pay for the pickle ball courts. Is that what you're saying? >> So, how will the lifeguards be paid? >> There's enough in there. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we went over it. Melissa was comfortable with that amount for the
pickle ball courts. Gotcha. Okay. >> And I think it's a little bit more that she spends out of that during the year for different programs, but uh that 10,000 was a surplus, if you will. >> Great. >> Is there uh do we vote on our those
limits a couple weeks ago for the revolving funds? Is there enough room for that additional use? Do we know? Does anybody have that? I don't remember any of those numbers. You mean off the allocation? >> No. So there's like a limit how much you can use for >> That's what I mean. Well, how much we
can I'm saying the same thing and I do I do know >> you check that number if you guys >> Yeah, it's it's in excess. >> We haven't changed it. I know cuz that >> it's in excess of 10,000. >> But there's still >> actually that one doesn't need to be voted. That's a special count. It's not a 53E. It's a 53D and a half.
>> Oh, okay. So we didn't even look at it the other day. >> D and >> 53D and a half. >> D and half. Not not the 53 and a half. >> Not to be confused, >> they do have three quarters laws. >> Wow. >> Leave it to the legislature.
>> Cool. >> So, the other items on here, we need you back for >> I will be back. I promise. >> And don't charge us for overtime. >> I don't get it. >> So, we have uh cruisers here. Chief Clark asked for Did you want to take the
lead? >> No. Go ahead. Chief Clark asked for three cruisers. We approved two um conducted energy weapons and both his cruisers are over 100,000 miles. They they wear those out and typically uh
pass them down to highway if they have any life left. I'm not sure these two have any life left. um we really need to beef up um our mechanic capabilities in DPW, so we're spending less on outside repairs and taking care of the things
that we have. Um I mean, we're doing the best we can. And there's just sometimes there's three cars like that need little dents fixed or something to get them running again and we just have to use an outside service because we don't have the person
that could fix them more economically. Uh so conducted economic weapons, tasers, um they're out of warranty and you want to air on the side of safety when it comes to potentially saving
lives. So, we would start a 5-year contract for tasers, 32,500 a year, and that way, um, I asked if we could get a trade in for the the old tasers, and he's going to look into that, but this quote is not taking that
into consideration. It's actually one company that provides the tasers for all the police departments in America. >> Um, that's wonder how that happened. Easy. >> So for 150 160 for the term, how many
tasers is that? >> 35. Yeah. 35. >> They're about five grand each. >> And highway department can't use those. >> Shocking. Shocking. >> Let's not do that.
>> I mean, yeah. Yeah. We probably don't want those in untrained hands. I >> probably >> save. >> Um, so yeah, along with the station, the park, the parking really does need it back there. It's falling apart. Uh, any
questions on police? You want to move to schools? Um yeah, we I just just uh looking at the tasers from um last we just approved 21,000 tasers from last year, too. >> That was probably the last year of a 5year contract. >> Yeah. He he really doesn't want to be
out of warranty. And I pressed him on it and I if if a taser malfunctions, I don't want to be the reason why. >> Yeah. I think is is is >> those things fail the next step is to go into lethal force and he doesn't want to
get in and having to use lethal force >> and they do try them on themselves before they >> deploy them. I I took a tour >> the new people. >> As a police officer, you have to have yourself taste.
>> I took my son's a >> tour though like four or five years ago and >> when they were doing the the shooting range, >> they were like, "Do you want to get tased?" I'm like, "But yeah." >> Wasn't on your bucket list.
>> Wasn't on my list. >> We have an empty bladder. >> Oh my god. >> Yeah. Yeah, they have an inside shooting range over there. >> Yeah. >> And they already expended all their ammunition funds this year. >> Wow. >> One shoulder versus this one.
>> I know, right? I Yeah. I wonder how many times they've had to use them to deploy a taser. >> Oh, there's an annual report on that. It's um It's probably on the website. >> They they had to do so many reports as part of their accreditation. They're
like 500 items they need and that was one of them. How many, >> you know, keeping track of those statistics? >> Hopefully avoids the use of a firearm. >> Pull out a firearm. They have to file a report. >> Yeah, >> it's a report on anything when it comes
to pulling a weapon. >> And if they had body cams, they would automatically start recording when you pull the weapon. >> It's very goal for the future. if we can ever figure out how to pay for storing the the data. We can get grants for the
body cams, but the problem is the annual operating costs to store those terabytes, >> but we're looking into the if the regional dispatch center >> can do it for all four communities. >> We discuss the school department, right? So,
>> all right, school. Enough about tasers. Uh tech tech please Norton Middle School. So this is the third year of five for um for this contractual commitment. >> It's uh we don't really have much of an
oblig. Um tech switches. That's the big one. That's and I'm I'm going to get this wrong, but tech switches are those white boxes on the ceiling that transmit Wi-Fi, transmit internet
through the building. So that's what makes the internet go to the classrooms. It's beyond its expected life of 3 to 5 years. It's managed 7 to nine years. >> Time to replace them. And it comes with a 60% reimbursement. So we're going to
be asking to appropriate 357 but only use 60% of that 40 or only use 40% of that 60% >> and then the other will just kick back and stay in the capital fund. >> Correct. Under the grant you have to allocate the full amount in order to get the grant and the rest will be turned
back. >> Yeah, >> that's 1428. So necessary expense and there's all sorts of conditions. They're going through the procurement for that getting the best deal. I mean
they actually went up from 50% reimbursement to 60% reimbursement which is good. Uh so that's that's school plus the paving. >> That's the middle school one next to the playground.
Yes, the one we discussed. >> And the library has a $2,0008 $284 security system. The original I I don't want to say too much in a public meeting, but I'll just say that we could use that security
system. >> There's a million dollars worth of books. I'm I'm informed >> which I'm working with uh with them over there as a facilities director to kind of oversee their uh improvements. >> There's an old rifle, a nice work of
art. You should check it out if you haven't been to the library recently. >> There was also a bathroom request there, but there's some issues with that quote. >> So hopefully they come back with a fall >> um >> bathroom request >> request for the library. >> Yes,
>> they don't have one. No, >> that's a remodel. But again, the quote had something like six toilets in it when there's only one. So, I'm not sure. >> She does want to expand the footprint, I found out, but we can get more quotes. >> We're going to work together >> and apply for grants. She she found a
potential grant source. >> So, that'll be coming back to us in the fall. >> Mr. Chair, >> Paul, >> and you can go ahead and go vote on the capital since it's all presented. I don't see a reason why not
if everybody Well, we'll find out. >> Sorry. >> So, this is this is article >> nine >> for 10. It's 10. Nine is the appropriation of 10 and 10 is the plan. >> All right, Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a
motion to vote on article 10 fiscal year 27 capital plan. Uh, do I have to read each? >> Yeah, you're supposed to just uh
>> You can read the totals. >> Yep. Totals for each source source >> for $929,261 from total capital improvement stabilization. Uh $690,500
from total ambulance reserve, $43,000 from total water retained earnings, and $30,000 from total sewer retained earnings. I >> have a motion and a second. >> 1.692.
>> Second one. Paul, >> thank you. >> 1.6 >> 1.692. >> Oh, there it is. >> Have a motion in a second. Let's see. >> Um, any further discussion,
>> Zack? Mark, I think we're missing. We appropriated some funds for the study on the comment. >> That's a warrant. >> Simple warrant. >> That's a separate article. >> Okay. We Okay. We voted on capital. >> He did the same. >> I thought the same thing earlier.
>> Yeah. Okay. No, I'm good. >> Okay. Motion and a second. Any further discuss Facebook, there's no missing funds. >> We hold on one second. Seconds up.
>> The number I get's different. I get 1,619,834 from these four totals. Adding them up. And the number on here is 1692 761.
So, >> what total do you get, Bonnie? >> So, I'll >> 1,619,834. >> I did not get that either. >> I got >> That's right. >> I got 1,692,761. >> That's what's it twice and did it wrong
twice, apparently. Sorry about that. >> Um, okay. Motion second. Any further discussion? No. Um, Paul is really pushing me with a taser
here. >> Um, >> hurry up. Fine. >> That's where those extra tasers are. >> All in favor? >> I I opposed. Abstain
unanimous. >> That was fun. >> Nine to zero. >> Okay. What's next? >> So, we're on number 16.
West Main Sewer. Yep. So, number 16 on the warrant articles uh to fund the water and sewer mains and infrastructure West Main sewer expansion project. So, one of the uh tasks I was
given uh immediately was to figure out how we're going to get sewer down the rest of West Main. Um I'm looking for $60,000 to do a study. Um I know people say study. What What does that mean? But um
it's not cut and dry. We want to get a uh we're calling it phase two because you've already done phase one. We want to bring sewer from um its current state which is right near the high school or >> housing authority >> housing authority and bring it all the way down to south and northwest the
Solomon school >> um >> past the >> past the middle school. So we need to we need to get the middle school on sewer but uh we want to go all the way to Salmonies and get them off septic as well. and of course hit all the the industries along the way. Um it's not
cut and dry that it can be a gravity sewer. So you know free flowing from Solommones all the way down to where it is right now. As a matter of fact, it it's known that it can't be. Um so this study is going to show us what the best way to to do that. Whether it be a
pressure system, whether it be a um uh gravity partial going the other way partial, that's what the $60,000 is going to show us. And it's also going to give us some uh insight into grant grant opportunities to to help pay for
construction. So, what I expect or what I'd like to see is this study completed by the fall and come back to you in the fall with a design amount for that. Um, and this money would come out of uh sewer retained earnings. >> So the ask is
>> $60,000 for the study >> to come out of retained earnings. >> Correct. >> So 60,000 just to study >> how we're going to do >> what's going to be needed to get from point A to point B >> and everything in between. >> Correct. I know there was some issues in
the last phase. Uh we want to make sure that those issues don't don't happen. Um that's what the 60,000 is to get a >> So is that I mean the issues in the last phase were just the construction of it um because
they kept hitting ledge they didn't expect is this study to study that or >> that would come into the design phase but yes as you know there's a uh a line that goes now from
Sommones down to 4 in line. So, um we're looking to maybe put it in the same place that that exists now. Um stay tuned. But yes, >> okay. Cuz I was I was such a fan over those. >> Can you reline that? >> Three years.
>> Not big enough. >> It's not big enough. It's only 4 inch. So, yes, you could probably hit the Solomony school, but that's that's about it. >> Okay. any further discussion. >> So why my question is you're going that
far. Um and I obviously from previous meetings I have concerns about doing things this type of work without benefits. >> Understood. >> Uh and what that would mean to the rate payers that are currently paying. >> But with that being said, why wouldn't you,
again, we're doing this kind of peace meal. Why wouldn't you do the study all the way to the Alamar line? I mean, it's all businesses along the >> that's going to be in the next phase. I mean, my own best answer to that is it's imperative that we get sewer down to the middle school. As you know, there's a
sale a failed septic system there that that they're on borrowed time with. Um, >> so is the is is the as part of this study, is the pipe going to be large enough to accommodate flow all the way to the Attabo line? Absolutely.
>> When phase whatever it is, 345 >> Absolutely. that'll come into the design phase. But yes, absolutely. >> Yeah. And that that's something we're focusing on. We don't want to just be responsive to what developers want. We want developers to be responsive to what the town wants.
>> And it'll that study will incorporate bringing north and you noticed I said north and south because I'd like to see it extended up both ways there. So that that design will be to handle potential buildouts in the future.
Mr. J, can I just >> uh just a small comment on what the town manager just said because I think that was a really uh a good point. Um I think with the with the housing situation in the state, what have you, development is likely coming either way. And uh I think
when you are intentional about where you want that development to be and prepare for it, you can end up with a much nicer town than if it just comes and a 40B is in some unlockable neighborhood or whatever happens. if you fight it the whole time. And I know folks don't want to hear that, but I think the economic situation, I mean, private land can be
built on like we have zoning bylaws, folks are able to build um one way or another. So, development is coming. And I think being thoughtful about where we want it is really smart thing to do. Um and I think right in the center of town, it's a great place to uh to be thinking about that. That's all I want to say.
Thank you. I'll just add if you if you let them put force mains everywhere then there's going to be double the amount triple quadruple the amount of pump stations then if you plan it out and then have them do it according to the plan but yeah
>> and hopefully the pump stations will have standby generators unlike down over the where they opted to go the cheaper route with the promise that they were going to do that and then they didn't so the fire department has a nightmare every time there's a long >> correct Any further discussion?
>> Brandon could make a motion if you want. >> I I was waiting to see. >> The moment is yours. >> Mr. Chair, I would like to make a motion to vote on article 11 >> 16 >> 16
>> 11 plus >> I am sorry. There we go. Article 16, guys. >> The uh West Main Sewer Expansion Study for $60,000 to be taken from sewer retained earnings.
>> Second. >> I have a motion from Brandon, second from Paul. Did that help? >> Thank you very much. >> Any further discussion? >> Hearing none. All in favor? I >> I oppose
abstain. That's unanimous. >> On to number 17, which is a water and sewer uh mains and infrastructure project for the Mansfield interconnection. Um you know, this comes with, you know, the water quality issues
that we have in town. Uh the need to make sure that we have a viable source should we need it. Uh Mansfield is got a project going on now to uh increase the size of their interconnect on their side. Um we have the need to increase
ours from a six to an 8 in um along with putting in a meter and valves um so that we can uh you know each kind of valve when we want the other town to use our water um along with the meter to charge accordingly. So uh this is not a study.
This is for the design um of the replacement of the interconnect that exists right now and the installation of a of a meter pit and valve for that extension. >> Is that on 140 at the power line? >> Yes. >> So do we have already
>> the Mansfield line? >> The um >> Mansfield line, right? That's not 140. >> Mansfield. >> Yes. 140. Yes. Yes. >> And >> I'm sorry. Do you already have the um the right to the pit area or do we have to take some evidence from
>> No. No. We're going to we're going to design it accordingly. >> Yeah. >> Where where is this? Like near the gas station and the and the >> I've only been in this town for 15 minutes. Let me pull it up on the computer side of the um gas station.
It's right at the top line >> where the two new bu or the one new building is >> across the street. But >> in the street is where our line is. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> The line is technically in somebody's yard.
>> Do you want a Google map? >> Me too. >> I know it close enough. >> Okay. >> And this is in coordination with Mansfield who's doing a water main project on their side. So when they're finished their water main project then the connection will be stronger help
both towns in case of emergencies and they already treated all their PAS. So >> that was going to be my next question. >> We don't want PAS. So when there's an emergency, do we not do we test the other
suppliers >> quality or we're just like >> well they have regulatory compliance as we do. So >> there's no need to Is there a flushing that takes place? Absolutely. Because the lines are stagnant. But there's no
need for us to test them for POS. the it's a regulatory complant issue that that's already known. We can go online and get their results >> and they're and they're compliant at this point. >> I can't speak for Mansfield, but I know they spent a ton of money. They better
be compliant 50 million on PA. >> Yes. Okay. >> I know they're on their third. They're on their third PA treatment facility being built. So, >> just and the 200,000 then that's the design and the construction that suits. No, that's the design.
>> That's just the design. >> Design. >> I said that all the time. >> That and tasers. >> That's the design. >> Yep. >> It's Monopoly. >> Well, I was just going to say that. >> So, in the design process, that's when you get the estimate for the
construction. >> Uh, not tonight. I could run out of >> I would leave that up to the financial people to figure out whether you want to bond for it or not. We're not talking in the tens of th millions. We're talking probably a million or two.
>> Just >> it's not it's not that simple. It's not a five foot piece. It's a don't quote me please, but like a 100 foot line that we're moving from 6 in converting from 6 in to 8 in. >> And and you saw what happened to to
Adabra with their valve and their connection. We don't want to repeat that. We have interconnections with Mansfield and Attboro. Correct. Anybody else? Not East, not uh >> Nope. >> No more.
>> That's a whole another story for another night. >> Surface water. >> We've talked about that a little bit, Zach. >> So, what are you thinking the construction phase? 28. >> When do I think we could construct? >> Yeah. >> Oh, if we can get the design done by the end of this year, we could go out to bid
the beginning of next year. We're they're not going to be done for two years. So, we'll want that construction to kind of coincide with them. >> And how much disruption is that going to cause on 140?
>> There's going to be some I mean, I'm not going to lie to you. How much of that that'll come out in the design phase? See, when you do this type of project, they got to do a traffic study and figure that all out >> cuz I'm assuming at least one side is going to be not driving,
>> I would imagine, during the project. Yep. >> Yeah. And that's a lot of that's a heavy traffic. >> Don't don't book any concerts next year. >> But the answer the answer is not to do nothing. I mean, it's got it's got to get done. Like there's going to be an inconvenience.
>> I will definitely work to minimize it. And I'm a pretty Guess >> I'm pretty good at that. I did a lot of construction overseeing in New Bedford and uh >> so we're going to have to widen Reservoir Street and put in street lights and >> No, no, no. This is just
>> that's going to be the bypass. >> So, you heard it first here. >> It's going to be the bypass. Everybody's going to go, I'm not doing 140 >> down reservoir. >> So,
>> or the other exit. Yeah, >> Mr. Chair. >> Brandon, >> I'd like to make a motion. >> Which number? >> Article 22. I'm on quitting 17. >> Oh my god. >> Uh, article 17
for the Mansfield interconnection design uh for $200,000 from water retained earnings. >> Motion from Brandon, second from Paul. Any further discussion? >> Postations.
>> Hearing none. All in favor? I >> I >> uh abstain. Opposed. That's unanimous. >> I suppose I should have we should have asked this ahead of time. When's the select board voting on this stuff?
>> Tomorrow. >> Tomorrow. >> Okay. >> It's in the next one. The >> Oh, 216. I'm sorry. All right. I'm good. I'm good. Uh, next article is article 18 is to fund water and sewer main infrastructure improvements. Uh, you can
see off to the right there that there's a request for 216,000 out of water and 30,000 hour sewer. Uh, we kind of lumped it all in together. Um, the water replacements is to continue our program of replacing water meters throughout the
city that are being estimated. Um, last count there's at least 700 that are still estimated because the meters aren't reading right because they haven't been replaced in >> a long time. Um, >> that 200,000 is is earmarked to replace
about another 400 next year. Um, you ask why not replace them all at once because we don't have the the bandwidth to do so. Um, and it's also for some water treatment improvements of the carbon system. Uh, some cleaning of of wells
that are needed. Um, I talked at the the CIP request meeting. Um, I'm looking to get the infrastructure system on a base um to get everything up to where it's supposed to be and then annually some of these increases will be in the budget
rather than be a capital request or a warrant article. the 30,000 for sewer stations. You have three stations. Uh, don't quote me, but there's 19 stations in town. 20 something stations in town,
which was Mach was saying to, you know, when you don't I I digress. Uh, we have three wastewater pumping stations that need to be updated uh control-wise. They need to have uh level controllers replaced and
you know the on and off pump sequence of the pumps replaced. They've been kind of doing one at a time here and there. I want to get the last three done completed and out of the way. So that's what that $30,000 is for. >> And the water meter replacement.
>> These are residential water meters and commercial industrial water meters. So, how I don't know how to word this was how off or accurate >> there's no power there
>> has it gone from whatever you would have had prior to replacement to what you got replaced is it relatively >> well it depend I know that's a I know what you're getting at it's a it's a difficult question to answer because it
depends what's wrong with the meter. In some cases, when you remove a meter, you can have them sent out and you can actually tell even though you haven't been able to read it, you can actually tell how much water was used. In some cases, the meters beyond that. Um, I can
tell you that again being from New Bedford and being a prod thousands of meters replaced, it all washes out in the end. And I know that's a weird question, but one might be up, one might be down. um
it's to get accuracy moving forward. That's that's the reason why we replace them. So right now those meters are being estimated and they're being estimated off of two years worth of water usage. So if I have a history of
having my meter estimate be, you know, a hundred bucks a quarter, you come in replace it and it's a thousand bucks. Do do I have recourse here? >> No. >> Recourse to what do you mean?
>> You should have been paid more. >> I mean, you bought >> this is a this is a this is one of those laws that it's your responsibility to make sure your meat is accurate, >> not the water department. >> How would I know that? >> It it should say estimated or actual on
the bill. >> It does. If you go home, look at your bill and you'll see if you >> for it to go from, you know, pennies >> to a,000 bucks. If we're all trying to run on a budget, whether it be >> you got free water for a long time
>> over time, they're not reading all the water. >> Is is there a payment plan if that comes up to someone? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Absolutely. What you're saying, I don't think we're on the same page. What I'm saying is that you could be paying $100 every month because I estimated it.
>> Then I put in a new reading and come to find out you're really using $200 worth. >> I don't go back to you and say you owe me $100 for the past 3 years. >> No. No. I can. >> However, if we were to pay to have the meter checked and it was to find out
that you actually used that water and I can prove that, then yes, you would be on the hook for the $1,000 and I'd work out a payment plan for that $1,000. >> Okay? >> Cuz you use the water the water like >> So, if you don't think your water bill
is right, you can ask to get a check >> anytime >> and they'll they'll do a meter check. But if it's, correct me if I'm wrong, if it's correct, then you have to pay the meter check fee. >> Correct. >> If it's not correct, we'll eat it. >> What What's that fee? >> A couple hundred bucks. >> 200 200 bucks. >> You send it out to a third party and
they analyze it. >> Okay. >> And it happens. It happens all the time. >> Replace mine a couple weeks ago. So, I'll report back at the fall session on how my water BILL'S GOING. I CAN I CAN tell you I can tell you mine personally
at home I was paying $75 a month. Now I'm paying $100 a month. >> Did you see a well going into my house? >> No, you didn't. >> And that was before I left employment there. That wasn't something they did after. >> Okay.
>> I mean, we want accurate readings. We want it for financial reasons. We want to get what we're going to we're supposed to get and we want to make sure you're paying for what you're paying. >> It's not an uncommon thing. >> Technology changes. We need to move with the technology. >> Okay. >> And so now we have to drive by each
house, >> which we still will be, but the technology that we use in the new meters at one point we'll be able to read automatically, but we're not even close to that. >> So does does a homeowner get the option to, you know, get an app that says
Norton water bill? We will get to that point. Yes, you can get there >> in the next >> and it'll show you your consumption by hour in the next two years when you when you >> kid to get out of the shower. It's totally >> in the next two years we'll be there. >> Wow. >> Okay.
>> My my brother lives in Bridgewater and they have that system. He'll get he'll be watering his flowers in the summertime and he'll get an alert in his phone. We think you have a leak. You've consumed x amount of water in the last 24 hours. It's like I don't know. >> No, it's probably you're outdoor
watering. There's a water ban. We're going to find you 500 bucks. Is >> that true? >> No. They won't find me. They want to sell water. >> I don't know. >> Well, it depends. >> Do we both? >> Yeah. >> Mr. Chair
>> Brandon, >> I would like to make a motion to vote on article 18 for water and sewer meters and tanks for uh $216,000 from water retained earnings and $30,000
from sewer retained earnings. >> Got a motion from Brandon, second from Paul. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor? >> I >> abstain
opposed. That's unanimous. >> Great. All right. The next one that I have on my docket is number 24. The reconstruction in inter uh of intersection at Route 140 Mansfield and Tarton ABS. Route 123. As you know,
we're looking uh uh to reconstruct that. Um we held someformational meetings in the past. It's gone to traffic. Uh we're looking to move this into the next phase, which is bringing design to 25%.
I repeat, to bring design to 25%. Um, and the cost of bringing design to 25% getting us on a tip project with Mass DOT, uh, doing all that paperwork. The cost is $140,000. I'm asking for $40,000
in in capital improvement funds. >> We're rolling the dice. We we think we can get a grant um for the 100,000. Um, we're in close coordination with our state and federal partners and we believe this one's going to go through. If if
not, you'll see us back in the fall. >> So, for now, I'm only asking for 40,000 of the 140. >> Is this Steve How in charge of the whole state highway system or something? >> It's an election chair. Yeah, >> it's an election. >> Call your call your representative and
tell him to support our project. >> And this is Rotary >> 60%. >> Nope. This is the center of town. >> This is the center of town. >> Are they going to do a a roundabout? Are they going to do a >> So, that's going to be voted on at >> They're not going to do a fly over >> That's going to be uh voted on at the
select board in town meeting. >> That's going to be the article that takes all night. >> I'm sure. What I can tell what I can tell you is that it looks like it's leaning towards a new road ton a directly between the church and
>> uh the site right now that's being redeveloped. >> So we'd have to take one property two properties >> two houses two house and another >> yeah across from the post office.
That that's again >> an iffy, but it looks like yes, they will pay for that because it's a state road. >> Make more sense. >> It will take two hours. >> Well, maybe that's not for >> So again, and I I understand everybody's
had a long night. This is just for 25% design. This doesn't seal us into saying we're going to construct. This gets us on a tip project. We're hoping that this will become a transportation project and mas dot will pay for the entire construction in which case we'll be on
the hook for just design of the entire project which will be more than the 140 I'm requesting but far less than the 10 million that this project's estimated to cost. >> And straightening the roadish
is supposed to make it smooth. It's going to be a four-way traffic stop. Correct. >> Well, it is a four-way cone. It's just >> No, it's not. It's a jagged. >> I I understand that, but it's >> it's not a four-way stop. >> You can get stuck in the middle. >> There's actually two lights in the middle. Yeah. >> And then you feel very embarrassed.
>> It's not a fourway. Technically, what this project is doing, >> what this project is doing is and and it's it's shown to improve >> uh traffic weights, traffic slowdowns, but it's also um bringing everything to
ADA compliance. It's also bringing pedestrian safety into the forefront as well as bicycle lanes, which mass dot requires. >> Bicycles. Okay, >> sorry. We'll talk about that anytime.
>> That's a mask not requirement. >> They're scared. They're not stupid, but they're scared. >> Invite me to the conversation cuz I'll I'll talk to Vans all night. >> Okay. >> Okay. Let's not do that. >> Not tonight. >> I'm not I better be sleeping telephone polls and then stop.
>> So, so sorry, Mr. Chair. So, I'm sorry. I'm tired. This article is to just for us to recommend or not recommend this $40,000 from capital for design. We are not
voting on the design right now. >> Mr. Chair >> have added. >> I would like to make a motion to vote on article 24 the route 140 Mansfield AB Taon AB and Route 123 East and West Main
Street intersection design uh by taking $40,000 from the capital improvement stabilization fund. >> Second have motion Brandon second Paul. Any further discussion
hearing? None. All in favor? >> I >> opposed abstain. >> That's unanimous. The next one, Mr. Chair, is a request to resolve a drainage issue along um
another troubled area, South Worester Street um in front of uh well at 44 Southwester Street. the the topography is there's about 10 houses on either side and they drain the storm water to one catch basin. It's been a perennial
problem. They went in the past got an easement over private property and we're going to watch a video in a little bit. Um, and with the chair's uh indulgence, all the water goes into one gentleman's
house who is who's sitting here today. And they actually created a retention, you'll hear from Justin whenever I mess up, a retention basin in the gentleman's front yard, and it's taken like 70 80% of the water, but sometimes it still
overflows. They created 500 additional gallons in addition to the 500 gallons in the catch basin, the 500 gallons in the street, and it just keeps overflowing a river into his uh basement. Um, >> does it ultimately go to the golf course, one of the ponds? >> So, that's that's the plan.
>> That's the plan would be to pipe it through the backyard to the golf course. We need to get an easement from them. And I believe that's what we did to the other side of the house. There is a pipe going to the golf course. Um, so that's what we'd be asking for here. I understand we've we've done a lot and I
I think um our DPW director can speak to that and with the chair's indulgence um the gentleman also would like to say a few words. >> So this is a 100,000 just for the design. >> No, this is for construction design construction
everything. >> Okay. >> I was asked to get a a price on doing that. Um and that's what we did. We went out and got a quote. um on what it would cost. Um I know that um Jared, our highway superintendent, has been heavily
involved in this. I was brought to their attention a year and a half, two years. >> 2019. >> 2019. >> Um when when did the when did the detention plan go in? >> 20 24 March of 24.
>> So in March of 2024 under the town manager, we were asked to go there, come up with a plan. um an easement was given by the homeowners to the town. Uh a detention pond was built. Um from our standpoint, we think that captures 80 to
say 80% of the water that does flow there. Um there's another 10 to 20% on a 5 to 10 year storm that I know um I'm told I'm told uh overfills that detention pond and heads towards the house. Um
Jared has come up with another plan and I think he he had spoke to the homeowners at that time. There's there's some burming we can do on the retention pond to raise that up and we can also um dig a cover towards that property in the
back which you're calling the golf course uh to force the water that way. Um and again I'm not here to say whether this project is right or wrong. I'm just here to tell you what I know of the project. Um and let you guys decide for yourselves.
>> And would you be keeping the retention pond or are we trying to kind of do >> I think the homeowners would like to see the retention pond go away, but I don't think that's a viable option and it's on a now easement of town land.
>> So, we own the hole in their front yard. >> Yeah. But it's still someone's front yard. So, >> no, it's a town easement. >> I get that. >> Still their property though. >> It's still someone's They're looking at a retention pond where most people don't. So that's why I'm kind of asking
if after you do all this, is there still a need for that? >> But I digress. >> I think the other one goes right from the street directly to the golf course. >> The other one's on the other side of their house and it's piped
>> right to the right to the pond. Right. I'm sorry. >> Can we move? Should we move up? >> Yeah. Come on. You waited a long time. >> So, >> on the street there's right in right on my property line. There's two storm
drains, one on each side of the road. It actually goes to the one on my side of the road, under the road, to the opposite side of the road, comes down, follows South Worester Street, and then comes down my driveway, under my shed, and out to the golf course. And in 2019, they came and put a manhole in my
driveway to try and clear that drain, which didn't work. Also, >> that was actually having a plug problem that long run. >> I don't think it's a plug problem. I think it's a water problem and a small pipe problem. >> Mr. Chair, Zack,
>> so let's make this easy. We caused flooding to this folks's property. >> I'd like to show you I'd like to show you the video. There was flooding before and then the fix made it exponentially worse. >> Well, it made it more frequent. The fix
made it more frequent now. >> The detention pond made it more frequent. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. Because because before the water or the road held the majority of the water, right? The retention pond was tied into
the road underneath. So now before the road even fills up, the the the retention pond gets all the water first. >> And you'll see it fills up in about 5 minutes. >> That's 2019. >> That That's our front yard.
>> That was before the retention pond. >> Yep. >> Mhm. >> Wow. >> And there's a video of you can see the road is flooded where the cars are driving by. So it's holding. >> And that's to the left of your house >> if you're looking. >> That's on my front door to the right. to
>> sideway. >> If you're standing on the sidewalk looking at our house, it's on the left. >> Yeah. >> Do you have something after >> like we sent a lot of videos? >> No, you don't have to. It's not all of them, but they they really captured.
>> So, that one right there would be a good one. >> This one? >> Yep. >> It's a This is not time lapse. It's It's a five minute video. >> Sorry about the sound. You can mute that. Um, you could drag it >> jump ahead. >> Yeah, you could drag it to three minutes
or whatever. >> That's the retaining pond. >> That's the retention pond. This is all of five minutes. >> You can keep going. >> And then, >> so this gives me very little time to get to the basement. And now the whole the
whole thing floods the backyard. >> So it goes in the backyard, runs down our front foundation into our basement door. 8 in up the basement door is underwater. >> We had to install a water alarm. So when this happens in the middle of the night, the alarm goes off. We jump up with a
wet back. >> I got to dump it in. >> When we're on vacation, my 78-year-old father has to come to the house. >> Sump pump. >> No, it's not a sump pump issue. It just comes in the door. >> It's not a French drain. >> In the door. >> It's not a French drain issue. I have I
have no leaks in my foundation anywhere. So there is no doubt in my mind that that that storm water overflows and comes into the house. And I'm not here to point fingers and say what's right and what's wrong. The concerns I have is number one, we
have to get an easement from that golf course. >> So you're and and I'm not saying you're I'm not saying you're asking. I'm just saying the ask would be to hopefully get $100,000 to try and fix this. But then the golf course is going to approve us
putting a line in their golf course to the retention pond. So they have to allow us to dump our water into the retention point that goes there. >> It's on the other side. It's not No, it's not the way the systems work. >> So what's plan B? >> Yeah, that that's what we were told.
>> So that that line goes directly to the golf course. The one on that goes down my driveway goes directly into the golf course retention pond >> on the other side. I know it does. >> Yeah. All the way. >> Yep. That doesn't mean the golf course is going to allow us to do this. >> No. >> So, is there a plan B if they don't?
>> So, there was a there was a phase two at some point back in time that if the retention pond didn't work, we were supposed to move on to phase two. But I was also told that there's there's a wooded area where um >> back behind the other house >> in between kind of in between the houses
where John said >> if it could make it to there it was enough to filter it to before it gets out to the golf course and we don't necessarily have to tie in all the way to the golf course but >> it just bypasses my property cuz you know am I on the hook to clean that
trench out because I just got a big trash hole in my front yard now from the road. The phase two plan was to go to the wooded area. >> The phase two plan actually um >> Jared's phase I'm sorry. Go ahead. I'm sorry. >> It was It was It shows the trench that's there, but then it shows a tie in that
goes all the way to the back of the property line. I can't remember if that was a a a surface drain or if it was a pipe that was piped in. >> Uh but it disappeared cuz it was phase two. And and and again, I'm not making judgment on you. I only know what I know
from what I've been told that when the retention pond went in and John from conservation was there as well, they let you know that you're going to need to bring up your property a little bit above that retention pond. But there's also a phase two. The phase two approach was for us to burm that to bring the
retention pond up a little higher and for us to swail it towards the back of those woods. That would be our phase two. putting a pipe and doing away with the detention pond was like last last ditch effort like if all else fails.
>> Um >> I mean but it still is >> we have and we have 114 emails with a thousand conversations going back and forth with this because there was a lot of things that were communicated that kind of have seemed to have changed a
little bit. But again, it was put in and um you know, June 7th, we emailed Jared to say, "The plan didn't work. It's still flooding. It's still flooding." In June 9th, he responded, "Sorry, it didn't work. We'll move forward with phase two of the
plan." And that was June 9th, 2025. And then that was it. But we also like because they tied the street into it. Now we have all the trash, all the chemicals, everything running into our backyard into my
garden. I had a video and he couldn't find it and I wish he could have found it where I actually went out in bare feet because I was so upset and filmed. It's up to my ankles. >> Filmed it. Fa the phase two then would be raising up the property between the house and the pond so that the pond now
will drain further into the >> into the natural environment and that will keep the water out of your house. I mean, >> how would that was that the better first try, especially with kid start dealing with the golf course and having to do that cuz it's different ownership now than it was with Tim to Terry and eons
ago when we got to put the other one in, you know. So um >> but how I just don't know how that would look and work if >> I have some ideas that I don't know that is prudent to discuss here in front of the finance committee but I I have
cosmetic ideas that putting abites around that detention pond because I understand it's not the greatest thing to look at but when you put in plants you're also absorbing some of that water you're helping that water retention and to have Jared go there and
it's easier for us to maintain a swale than it is for us to put a pipe in the ground and then maintain that. >> So I I definitely feel that they need to have some kind of mitigation to make make this right. >> I agree 100%. >> So I don't know whether do we approve the 100,000 and let it get worked out as
the and hopefully come to a good ending point which will take care of the uh >> Yeah. I mean I'm homeowners. >> Yeah. Can I ask what do the homeowners would like to see done? What would you guys like to see done? >> So, here here's I I'm also a good
neighbor and and Jeff Burton, who owns uh Southshore Millwork Works, is my neighbor. >> He was never I'll take the blame for not informing him, but somebody should have informed him that that that trench was going in, and nobody did. And he showed up knocking on my door, not appreciating
the fact that that trench got put in. >> It is on it. >> It is on it. Like I can I get I I kindly mow around on his side. >> But he said he's he's tried those trenches and his businesses and they don't work. >> They fail over time. It's just a matter
of >> That's why he was like, I wish you had come to me because I could have said if this is their plan A, don't agree to it. And we were so desperate >> because we finally like it took us that many years. >> We finally got a meeting with the town
manager after a lot of people calling. >> He met with us. We s begged him to come out, look at the property, look at what we're dealing with, showed him the videos. He started posting them online. Um, and then they came hired an engineer
to come out and come up with some plans. And >> we had to get a lawyer. Excuse me. >> Like we both had concerns. We were like, I don't know if this I don't know how it this trench 4T deep or however is going to hold as much water as we get because
the street again what you were describing is sloped like this right in front of this to the right of our house. Everything tries to go there and it just overflows. But we were so desperate. >> I will say it's not much different than the other area in town that
>> Barrel Street. >> That Barrel Street where we're working frantically to replace >> Court. Yeah. So, >> thank you, Peter. >> So, you guys from Union Street in there? Is that what it is? This this >> Charlie Town Country store still by 3 million, >> right? >> And we we were told the manager told us
to, you know, talk to an attorney and we did and we gave up the easement. We gave the town that part of our land, our yard, and >> in the hopes that >> and they built this I don't like at this point, the way it looks does not concern
me. the the flooding and like our house is what >> we were willing to deal with that if it worked but it's not working. know, as as as homeowners with a new DPW director who has some ideas to try to work with you. Um, >> not just to shed the water, but also to
cosmetically make it look something that >> I mean, I get it. >> We go forward, Justin, with this article for 100,000 and then if it can that case, hopefully we can just make it go away to the golf course. But if not, maybe we can do something. >> Well, we can at least ask them. I don't even think we've asked the golf. >> Oh, we have we've called them and they
haven't returned the calls. Sorry. Can I jump? >> I can I can assure you >> honestly over the past three to four weeks I've called personally. >> Sorry. Can I jump in and ask um this is it says $100,000 for design and
construction. Correct. So it sounds like you had an engineer out there before. >> Rim Engineering is >> for us. We had an engineer. Correct. >> Yeah. They measured the prop. They were on my back deck. They just measured. So when you when you do the retention pond, they came in and measured the flow and the size and they decided what the
retention pond would look like. >> No, that this was before the the choice to do the retention pond. I think that happened within within highway department >> to decide the retention pond, >> but the engineer just came out to survey the property
>> and then I think you guys decided the retention pond was the way to go. And maybe if it wasn't tied into the street, it might have bought us more time cuz the road would have held more water. But >> it we get all the water and it doesn't even have to be a storm anymore. It's
just regular rains from these question. >> It's tied into Sorry. >> Can I Can I just point of order? Can I speak up? Can we Can we have everyone direct the chair? >> Thank you. >> I don't know how this works.
Um so um my question is that if if we can we pay an engineer right as part of this $100,000 a new engineer not the one if if he was the one made recommendations let's not go to that one again um to come up with a plan rather than us sitting speculating what the
solution is going to be is part of that money going to you be used to pay for a professional to come in and evaluate the situation and hopefully come up with a better plan than what has been come up with up to this Is that is that part of the $100,000?
>> Yeah, like I I there's there's really only a couple of options. So, >> I'm I'm trying to answer your question correctly. We would need an engineer to design the size pipe that we would run to um the
retention pond in the golf course. Um, so we need that done. But I ultimately I'd be asking them to design. I was asked to get a quote to design to take a pipe from there to the golf course and designing construction was $100,000.
What you're saying is like ask an engineer to come in, check out the area, maybe pay them $20,000 for them to say run a pipe from here to there. Well, it seems like if if we've been trying things and not and not having them be successful up to this point, Yeah.
>> that it would it'd be worth the money to pay. >> So, I I guess I guess my answer to you is yes. My answer to you is yes. That $100,000 incorporates an engineer telling us this is the best way to do this. >> And and not just >> I think this will work.
>> Not Yeah. Not just to agree with you should just do a pipe from here to here. it it's to actually look at the issue and say that pipe's not going to work either. This is what you need to do. That type of stuff.
>> They're at the dead end of a a storm water system. I mean, I get it. Yeah, I'm saying. >> So, so it it it it may be something more drastic like, hey, you need more storm, you know, catch bas basins all the way
up your two hills and draining got to go some. Yes. >> And and draining out somewhere else and not going to the bottom of the ocean. You know, that's what they could come up with, which will be way more than 100 >> at the end of the day, >> right? But I think it it's worth it to
pay an extra to come in and do this right this time, >> right? Instead of continuing >> to to go, "Let's try this. That didn't work. Let's try that. That didn't work." Mr. Chair, >> Paul. >> So, the homeowners are making a comment here if you read between the lines that
it sounds like the the catch basins are draining from the bottom straight in rather than from the tops and you're losing the cash basin capacities from the street is what I'm trying. Is there a way to relocate so it comes off the top? So, the catch bases
actually feel >> Oh, it does. It does come off the top of the catch basin. So be >> the catch basin and the pipe. It's not at the bottom of the catch basin. It's about two feet. It's about two feet. >> I hate to talk about it because before we had the trench >> like
>> the water. So if if it's if it was blocked off and you did block it, right? >> Right. Like if it was like that before, all that did was it just backs up onto the street onto my neighbor's driveway and then drains straight into the yard. So, the only thing that really changed
is because it's open, the trench just fills up a lot faster and it backs up. >> You fix the road problem, right? You have no ponding on the road anymore, but it's all in my yard now. >> It just happens a lot faster than before they built the trench. >> This year, >> but our yard,
>> Brandon, so I I have two questions, I guess. Has this always been an issue? >> Eight years we've dealt with. >> We moved in 2018. >> So, I'll be honest. I would be livid. I would be at the town hall. I would be banging on the doors. I would have
grabbed the old town manager and brought him down. >> I'm just being I would be absolutely livid. >> The only reason that happen I'm just being honest. I >> My family all lives in the town still. I grew up here and I'm like no. I mean, I
I would get a lawyer and I be going after the town to help with the basement and everything else. I I don't even know if that's legally possible, but I I would be livid. Just my >> I mean, we've been pretty patient. I'm not going to lie. >> Again, 2018 we bought the house and in
2019, we bought it in April and that spring and summer we had water in our basement twice. >> This is just a daylight. I didn't I can't film at night, right? So 3:00 in the morning, if a storm's coming, I'll be on the couch. I got to wait up for the storm to pass. >> Alarm.
>> She's got to help me shopvac my basement and dump it in the washing machine. >> Mhm. >> You know, maybe go away, Justin. >> I have to >> I don't disagree. I'm all for it. I have to screw a board up against the door on the inside. >> There's many other issues.
>> Not for you guys. I know. Brandon, >> I would like to make a motion for article 10. >> We're all here to help. Brandon, >> I was kidding. I um article 25 storm water drainage
easement. >> Uh pay uh $100,000 from the capital improvement stabilization to fund the storm water and drainage easement >> design and construction. Second >> at 44 S uh Worcester Street.
>> Second. >> Have a motion Brandon, second by Paul. Any further discussion? >> Hearing none. All in favor? >> Opposed? Abstain.
That's unanimous. >> You took a telephone. >> Good luck. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for not staying so late. >> Yeah. So, sorry. I didn't mean to jump in and just start. No, thank you for saying that because we have felt that way. But
>> you shouldn't just >> I would have done your muscle. >> All right, what's left? >> You might have had one of those tasers, actually. >> That's right. We're going to be >> We need the taser. Careful. Don't stand in the water. Have a taser. >> Good dog night, guys. Thank you guys
very much. Hold up and get out while you can. >> Tomorrow. I appreciate you guys. Should we be is here too? >> Good luck. Thank you. >> Good luck. We'll
>> talk to you tomorrow. >> Grab a bucket. Start bailing. >> It's easier to get in. >> Yeah. Right. >> But I will I will do my best. Okay. >> All right. Thanks. >> Bye, guys. >> Have a good night. >> In a future. Can we >> Yeah, we do them first.
Let them go first. Sorry about that. I thought I didn't know I didn't at first but yes I hours after 8 years right >> they were very polite too. I would have been like let me go
>> well when they first came in my anyway. Yeah they were polite tonight. >> They were very polite. >> Okay. What's next? 26. >> Do we have >> Do we have a copy of 26? We don't have >> the 26. We should probably put that
over. Um, >> great. >> Let's get a redline copy to you in two weeks from today. >> Week and a half. >> 27. >> But those people, correct? >> It is. There's a ton of things in there that either talked about the sewer commission, talked about highway superintendent, water superintendent,
and it's basically cleaning that up. >> Putting my name as the department head >> 20 or 30 spots. Um, so the last one I suppose for today would be um another fun one, adoption of
a bylaw for sidewalk maintenance. >> We have language for that. >> That should be it. >> Oh, well that's this >> that's that's the proposal >> in your in your packet. And um so again,
I will start off by saying I was brought in to do what's best for the town. Norton is one of the few exceptional towns that has DPWs or DPIs shovel their sidewalks
um that are that are owned by private, you know, that are bought private residencies or private buildings. Um, years ago, this probably was not an issue because Norton didn't have sidewalks. >> We still don't. >> But every project that Norton does, they
add more sidewalks and it's become a burden on the department. Um, again, I know the blizzard is a is a an exceptional year. Um, but it took us seven days to get sidewalks completed. Um, that's seven days of two people all
day long clearing sidewalks that may or not even be walked on. However, it was brought to my attention then why do them? Because there's a liability to the town if you don't do them. So, as it stands right now, the
town is responsible for keeping sidewalks clear. We have to clear them. We don't have the staff or manpower to do that. Um, I think if you saw the amount it costs the town to clear sidewalks,
um, you'd realize that having homeowners do their own sidewalks like most towns and cities do makes a lot of sense. Now, I'm not talking about sidewalks outside of town hall or the fire department or the schools, but the sidewalks that are
owned by private, you know, that lead to these areas that are owned by private residences or private private people. So, that's basically it in a nutshell. So, >> say the apartment building on the other side of 495,
>> the owners would be responsible for >> the owners of the apartment building >> like it is everywhere else in the world. >> Okay. >> I'm not saying you're the only town, but there ain't a lot left. And like the sidewalk that goes down here to the bike trail,
>> everything that a Buttstown property would be our responsibility, >> but everything in between and to a house, whatever their frontage is, >> the granite store would have to do in front of their granite store. >> Yep. >> Mr. Chair,
>> Paul, >> is this Wait, Paul. >> Oh, sorry. Um, not a stupid question, but a comment as to why we're not including fire hydrants. >> Uh, fire hydrants are our asset and our
responsibility. So, again, in other cities and towns, we put out alert like I kind of did during the blizzard and said, "We would appreciate you helping us, but it's a little bit different in that it's our asset." >> Well, the sidewalk's our asset, too.
Exactly. Yeah, that's a good point. >> You know, >> I guess I didn't I didn't Adam. >> Yeah, I'm just thinking if you want to go to this trouble, then it probably is going to pass anyways, I'm guessing. But if it does, >> it's a good idea.
>> I was told not to bother, but I I'm insisting on I'm insistent on bothering. And it's only I mean, we're talking about putting another sidewalk up on is it Plane Street or uh >> Pine >> by the school? Pine Street. There's another. >> But >> we just can't keep up with them.
>> But like Robin's circle, these subdivisions that go in, don't they take care of their own sidewalks? >> Subdivisions do if they're if they're privately maintained. >> Can each go? >> So, can I get one of those >> individual ones? >> Right. Right.
>> I'm sorry. >> No, no, no. I'm just >> Can I get one of those things for the hybrid? Absolutely. >> Across my house that I couldn't find. >> Absolutely. after the blizzard. >> Brandon, >> um I was just going to ask, did legal
review this? >> It's almost identical to other cities and towns. >> Okay. >> Um and I I looked at it in my legal view, my I had another lawyer look at it in her legal view. It's
100% good. And I rarely say 100%. I always say 99, but >> it's legal. I plus I walk me into avenue and Freeman Street and when after the snow the the snow is the sidewalk is covered still so
I have to walk down the road and it's dangerous to >> Mr. Chair I have a couple things on the language in here. So, um, it's saying that the owners of the sidewalk that's
in front of their house would have to remove it within 12 hours of >> of the last snowfall. >> I feel like that doesn't even happen now. >> I mean, I walk my dog around and >> it took 10 days for my sidewalk to get >> around my house, too. like there was no
I don't have a sidewalk on my street but I walk around streets with my dog and run around and um yeah it was definitely more like days so I >> because we only have so many people that can do it >> right that's his point >> that's my point we didn't get to them for days because we don't have the
ability >> I just feel like that's kind of a lot to ask >> again I'm not I'm not trying to reinvent a wheel it's kind of the the norm >> okay and then um the exceptions here >> I'm I'm sorry before we go on and it's we're not going to go down the street in
the 13th hour and find people. It's >> that's what I was wondering how you didn't police that. >> It's a police it's play what's going to get policed is when somebody falls and tries to sue the city that >> interesting um the exceptions. So, um
the town manager I guess may decide or maybe you um to grant temporary relief. What does that mean if there's like a severe weather event? So if there's a huge blizzard with the blizzard, you don't have you have more than 12 hours. >> Oh, that's it won't enforce. >> I won't. Yeah. Just like you would do
with a parking ban, you can say, "We know that the blizzard's coming. >> We're not going to enforce this after 12 hours. We're going to give you 48 hours." >> And then for a household where um the owners of the house are not medic uh physically capable of shoveling their
own sidewalk, would they be able to contact you and let let you know? And then you'd keep track of those households or >> I don't think we're ticketing anyone. >> Generally speaking, what we would do is give them a list of people that have volunteered or >> contractors that would be willing to go
do it or >> Okay. >> Um I think that was the intent of that. But like Mark said, my intent is not to go ticket you because you're in trouble your driveway. >> Yeah. I just worry about Yeah. Like folks who aren't physically capable. >> Yeah. physically cable should be snowing their
own sidewalk. But >> yes, >> just saying. >> Let's go down the line here. Bonning. >> Thank you. Um, you had mentioned that there was a cost associated with whatever, you know, doing this and keeping up with this. I think that would
be a question that people will want to weigh. >> Um, so I would be ready with that number at >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah, I'd like to see it now as we're discussing. >> I don't have it on me. >> Okay. But you said >> I can tell you that we shoveled or
cleared sidewalks for seven days after the blizzard. >> No, I don't doubt that. I don't doubt that. I guess I just it's it's it's interesting to hear if you saw the number, but then we don't have the number. >> Well, I mean, just just estimate how many hours. >> I didn't say I saw the number. You said if you saw the number, you would be
surprised. >> You would be. So 7 days two guys a week for seven days is >> I I guess I put it this way. >> 80 hours. >> How long did it take you to shovel your driveway after the storm? >> They don't shovel though. They have a
machine. So that's >> Have you ever watched that machine? It >> It does a great job on Freeman Street. >> It It's not super quick though. It's not like it goes zoom >> and it doesn't go everywhere when it goes down to a driveway and back up and
back down and back up. >> It It's It's struggled just fine >> up here, >> but obviously I didn't watch it. >> Um >> when I said you'd be surprised at the numbers, I'm just the point. It was a rhetorical thing that it cost us a lot
of money to to shovel. I just when we're talking about taking a town service that's existed for as long as we've had sidewalks, including sidewalks that took people's land 20 years ago or whatever that now suddenly they're going to have to maintain. I'd like to see that it's worth the juice is worth the squeeze. >> I'll get you that number.
>> Without that number, um, and then also, you know, it's not just the financial aspect, it's also the quality service that we're trading here. And if we're talking about these, we're going to ticket this and that and the bylaw, but actually we're not going to tickle ticket people. we're going to give elderly people uh rightfully so some
relief so that they're not suddenly required to do this task. Um then the sidewalks actually aren't cleared and then they're not usable. So really what we're trading here is giving up our sidewalks for whatever this amount of money is in my opinion. And I keep
hearing we don't have that many sidewalks but then I hear how much it costs which seems to be in conflict. So quite frankly, I I just I I hear you on the rest of the the world apparently having this this uh this article, but I just don't see how it benefits this town
um as as a threatened. I think it it just moves the inequities around um and will result in Peter walking in the road quite frankly. >> Yep. That's right. That's right. >> Kids walk. >> All I will allow to to respond to that. Um during a snow event, we have to
decide whether we keep the streets clean or the sidewalks clean. >> You don't though. You keep the streets clean. The sidewalks are always the second priority. And rightfully so. >> They are. That's what I'm That's the point I'm making. They shouldn't. >> That's fine. Nobody's arguing that you should do the sidewalk. >> But Peter is not going to be able to walk down the sidewalk because we can't get to the sidewalk.
>> No, no. What I'm saying is so this maybe not a good example, but what I'm saying is that the people are not going to clear their sidewalks. A sidewalk needs to be clear from A to B to be useful. And if 10% of the people are seniors or medically unable and they've been given relief and now the sidewalk is not
clear, people are going to choose not to walk, they're going to spend money on an Uber or they're going to spend money on a taxi or they're not going to go where they're going to be because they're going to call into work or they're going to walk in the street and they're going to, you know, I just don't I see a lot of lot of issues with that, especially
if >> we're talking about an outcome where really the work's not actually going to get done because we're not going to ticket people. Again, rightfully so. I don't think I mean goodness I I don't want our seniors uh suddenly now choosing between getting ticketed by the town and and having to pay money to have
somebody clear the sidewalk. Um but if we're not going to enforce it, then the work is not going to get done and now we're basically just sacrificing our sidewalks. Yeah, >> Zach. >> My concern with it is I would say, you
know, and I don't know the numbers, but I'm guessing 60 70% of the sidewalks on Main Street uh in this town. And if you walk anytime from 2:00 to probably 4:00 in the afternoon, you're going to see school kids on those sidewalks back and
forth. And you can tell people they're going to shovel the snow, but you know, it's not going to happen. Uh, you know, I'm into Bedford. They tell me to shovel. I don't am I going to put it? I'm just going to push it back into the street. I don't even bother. Uh,
so I have concerns with this. I The kids are going to be walking the street over there in the afternoon with the traffic um that's there. And I think we're basing this off a once in a 10-year event of a blizzard, which was an extraordinary, we haven't seen
it, I don't know, since 78, maybe >> 78. >> Yeah. >> I I >> Is it that big of an issue on a normal winter? Well, the last three, four, five, six winters, we've had nothing. So, I think we're making a bigger issue than it is based on one event this year.
Um, and I just think this will be another two hours at town meeting of people bickering. Uh, so you know, so for those reasons, I I'm going to be opposed >> Paul. So my son has a place in Franklin
and I very obviously noticed that certain stretches of sidewalk were done with a nice snowblower and a good neighbor did four or five of the neighbors and then nothing for four or five houses and then another good neighbor did a stretch and so I don't think it works because of that alone.
And I mentioned the other night with the schools here the whole idea of the fact that the kids really need to have those sidewalks done no matter what. So, I'm I'm kind of exact here that I don't think it's going to happen, but Paul, for the record, I did my fire hydrant at least three times during the storm.
>> There you go. >> You know, >> there we go. Chief, everything else is the same number. >> Well, that's the last one. Anyway, that's the last 27th. >> You know how much capital cost? >> 26.
>> And it's still going to go somewhere. >> It's 202. Is that it? >> I want to say skip, >> but that's me. >> We have the >> Oh, I definitely want to skip. So, you want me to make a motion?
>> Um, >> I'll take a How will I word this? If someone makes a motion to to do the minutes, then we'll sit here and do them. Otherwise, I'd like to have a motion to
call it an evening. >> Mr. Chair, >> Brandon, >> I would like to make a motion to adjourn. >> Second. >> A motion and a second. I'm surprised no one wants to do the minutes. I almost was going to do it as a joke, but
>> you made enough jokes tonight. >> Any further discussion? >> Hearing none. All in favor? Abstain? Object. Tom is getting overtime tonight, Bill. That's right. That's right. class.