Good evening. Like to call the Monday, April 6th uh fin meeting to order. Um we usually stand for the pledge of
allegiance. So I guess we will do that. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> What do you got? What is that?
But before we get going here tonight, um there were a couple of things that occurred over the past week. Essentially, um, two individuals from the school
committee complained loudly in two emails and then a follow-up email at just how disorganized and how
I guess I I'll just say inappropriate our meeting was last Monday. Let me start by saying thank you for volunteering. Not everybody does that in this town. They're very
quick to complain if something doesn't go their way. But I don't see them lining up here to sit in one of these chairs like you guys have over the past I don't know how many years.
So, thank you for that. To address, you know, what what transpired, I'll just say, I am a heavy believer in the chain of command.
If you have a problem with something that was here, you should come to me. If you are unsatisfied with your answer, then you can bubble the frigin thing up. But to just blast emails out because you
weren't happy about something to me is very childish. It's unprofessional. To answer some of the questions, I have a master's degree in finance. I have been employed
for 20 plus years in the field. You two who complained won a popularity contest in that you had the most votes to get on your school committee.
Can I ask, do you have a master's degree in education? Hm. You're serving on the school committee. Do you have the background to do it? So why are you questioning the members of
this board? Seems like someone a few people are living in a glass house. when I was when it was pointed out that I had the audacity to be laughing
because I had just heard that somehow in this town someone was unable to report income for a full 12 months. The story I
got was they only did it for 10. I don't know about you, I find that laughable. How many months in a year? 12. How many seconds in a minute? 60. How many states in this country? 50.
This is all stuff we have learned. I am unsure un clear why we would only report 10 months of income versus 12. I'm not in control of what people do
inside this building or some of the other buildings within this town, but I can tell you we as a board are a little concerned about that fact of 10 versus 12. And we want an answer.
We were accused of not opening an email. I don't know how someone can accuse us of opening an email. I hope they did the forensics to prove their statement.
Otherwise, they've made an assumption. And what happens when you make an assumption? You make an ass of yourself. minutes in this committee have been an issue since the
prior town manager. It is not lost on any of us that we have not had minutes. One of the first things I said when I took this appointment again
to Mark to my right was minutes are a disaster and I will not have my reputation spoiled because they have not been done by the prior administration. Fix it. And
guess what? He is addressing it as we speak. Mail. I am not in control of the mail in this building. This is a secure building. I do not have access to the
mail room. I thought it was decided about four weeks ago that the mail would be brought to us before this meeting. I can't get into a secure room.
So for those those crying that we didn't have it last week, not in my control. They clo one of them school committee members closed out their email. I hope
we can collaborate in the future. I responded your email. Really didn't set that up. Hopefully we can because we are one town. We are here to make it a better town.
But that type of [ __ ] that was sent around last week is unacceptable. I would like the committee to take a vote at this point as to whether I should remain as the fincom chairman or
not. I am happy to step down at this point. >> I make a motion Bill remain the chair. >> Second. All those in favor I >> abstain. >> Anyone opposed?
So nine one abstension and it was 10. The last thing before we get to the fun, >> and I'm, you know, Mark, I'm sorry. I'm
in a mood, as you can probably tell. We need the information before the meeting. If we are to make decisions, we can't get the information the moment of the meeting. It is unfair again to the
members of this committee to be shown this document. If it's an overview, that's great. But even as an overview, members should be able to peruse it and have the ability
to formulate questions. So, please send this stuff out by Friday. Thank you. With that, Mark, the floor is yours.
>> No pressure, Mark. >> No pressure. >> Thank you for that opening um commentary. >> Well, actually, let me back up. Sorry. Does anybody have anything to say before
we move on? Quick quick comment about the email. It did not have the booklet attached. It only had a partial spreadsheet attached to it. So that was incomplete anyways. All of us did open it. Couldn't find the booklet that was supposed to be attached. So that's for that's for
starters. >> You had to jump onto their site if you really wanted to dig for it stuff. And then secondly, I actually did reach out regarding the 10 months bill. And what I was u informed of that it was the easiest way for them to have a cushion
of 1 to two months which is required by the department of revenue for them to have a 10 to 20% buffer like we have the 5% for the stabilization fund. They have a stricter requirement for the enterprise account for the water sewer by the state and that was their easiest way. So for their record keeping, they know there's 12 months a year. All the
money's there, but they just look at 10 months of the year because it gives them a two-month buffer. So that was their reasoning. It's very, it's very down and dirty accounting, but that's what I had gathered for that. So I just thought I'd throw that out there for starters. We'll hear from them when they come in, I'm sure. >> Thank you, Paul. >> Yep.
>> Anybody else? All right, Mark, now it's you. >> Thank you. Um happy to present fiscal 27 balanced budget today. On that
note, uh Bassum, would you uh run the the PowerPoint, please? >> There's no budget to the agenda this evening. >> I got it. >> I'd like to build off something uh Chairman Rotundi said that that we're one Norton and we're going to work
together to to overcome this. This isn't departments against each other. It's not the boards against each other. We all have we live the consequences of this and the service we provide to the residents every day and
the the basic utilities, the what makes Norton great together. So, this budget's going to build on that. Build on the the foundation, what makes Norton great, and here's how to make it even better.
This budget is built around a simple principle. I'm going to repeat this phrase more than once today. Recurring expenses should be supported by recurring revenue. It reflects a disciplined approach, a long-term approach. uh not just
surviving this year but building us strong into the future for many years. I'll walk through the structure of the budget, the key pressures we're managing and the plan to stabilize things. Next.
Next. Next, >> at a high level, the fiscal 27 budget is balanced at approximately 84.8 million. That reflects a 1.8 million increase over last year, uh, primarily due to the
levy, 2.5%. It's a it's actually a 2.2 increase. Um, you'll see on a later slide all the revenue sources that contribute to this year's budget. The most important takeaway here is how
the budget's structured. We've reduced reliance on one-time funding from approximately 2.7 million last year to 1.6 million this year. We've eliminated the $500,000 stabilization draw entirely. At the same time, we're
absorbing a lot of fixed costs uh due to inflation and other pressures contractual and there's a modest increase to the schools in here and we'll maintain the overall discipline
that we need to bring us into a stronger position. Um there's there's some numbers on this slide. uh we'll talk about them uh a little more as we continue, but you'll notice fixed and shared is a substantial increase this year and I think we we saw
that coming into it with with insurance and energy costs. Next, so this is the plan we are here. This budget uses 1.6 6 million in free
cash. It's a weaning off a three-step plan. Next year's target will be 500,000. The following year, we will have a stable, structurally balanced budget, be able to perform strategic investment,
be proactive rather than reactive. put our funds to work for us in capital, in OPAD, in areas where we see a return on investment to have services not only strong this year but sustainably strong
into the future. And you might say, um, town manager gold, why can't we just fund them from free cash? Using one-time funds to support ongoing services doesn't make services more secure. It
makes them less secure. Using these recurring um using one-time funds for recurring costs distort the reality because these one-time cost these these recurring costs they increase with inflation with
market pressures. And the one-time funds we're using are not replenished. They're variable from year to year. We can't sustainably rely on them. What if they don't materialize one year? Then we're budgeting ourselves into a cliff. So, we're not in a crisis. We're heading off
the crisis. This isn't a a red alarm bells. This is a yellow caution. Let's let's build on a strong foundation here. So, this budget still supports our core services, education, public safety, and operations, but does so in a way that we
can sustain. It's a practical plan that will protect our residents for years to come. Next, so before we talk about spending, um, I like to analyze the revenues first. As you can see, the tax levy is by far the
biggest proportion, meaning that we here in Norton are responsible for our own financial fee. We can't rely on state aid. State aid is flat again. Um well below inflation, well below um level
funded service requests or level sorry level service requests. Um, local receipts are improving and this budget's a meaningful reduction in free cash in one-time funds
to to shore up the gaps. We're trying to build a a solid core with integrity that if the financial winds come and and they they do come from year to year, we'll be in a position where we're not in in a
reactive in an emergency state, but we'll have a strong foundation, a strong base that will be able to thrive in any economic uh downturn or upturn. you know, when we have surplus free cash, we can use that
to to invest targeted investments in new uh new programs. I mean, we could reduce taxes, some might say, and others might say we could build a park. We could do the things that we would like to do. We need to be on strong financial footing.
Uh the re uh next, so this shows the revenue mix by percentage. job. Pretty similar to the the last slide. Um, local bar budgets bear the brunt of economic downturns. Uh, the federal government, they're
allowed to deficit budget. uh this the state government, they're allowed to give us whatever state aid they vote on, whether or not it's sufficient for our needs, whether or not it satisfies their obligations to fund K to 12,
and who's left holding the the bag. That's why we need to budget with discipline and consistent. So without an override, the only responsible choice is to align expenses
to revenues. That's what this budget does. Next, so the expenses here, um, as you can see, Norton public schools represent the largest share of the budget.
And second, a significant portion is allocated to what what's called fixed and shared costs. Things like employee benefits, contractual obligations, and insurance. These costs continue to grow here year
after year, and limit the flexibility we have in any given year to fund individual department requests. Say when we're spending uh like like next year we're spending an extra 50,000 in electricity. Um, so that's 50,000 that
we can't take to uh support um a part-time worker at the the senior center, community center. Um so without uh within the structure this budget provides a modest increase to to
schools to to general government and maintains core services and absorbs all the fixed cost pressures. It's not a uniform expansion budget. In the past, it's been uh what is a 1, two or three increase
and we'll just give a uniform increase. Um but this is a disciplined allocation within constraints uh where they are in real time. So we started at asking for a level funded as to supplies, level
service as to employees. We're we're not trying to lay anyone off. We're trying to keep all of our our hardworking, diligent employees, the the backbone of the government here. So, I'll walk through uh the next slide
is going to talk about a little bit about fiscal discipline and what we've done this this current year. Next. So this year we are on target. We've had the lowest turnbacks in a decade. Uh that means the
budget's essentially where it should be. Um PE departments are spending u well over 90% of their budget. It may look like a lot, 726,000, but in a budget of uh what do we say 84
8 million, that's that's a very small percentage. Too close for comfort. Um, so we've we've held the budget tight on the municipal side, including very difficult decisions like not backfilling police officer, not backfilling a
firefighter, um, not easy decisions. Not decisions that I like to make. At the same time, we've strengthened key functions like DPW, HR, and IT, actually
saving money in the process, and providing increased service, maintaining and actually improving overall budget control. With that starting point, I'd like to turn to the next slide and discuss the
school's funding request briefly. So the school request reflects real needs and real pressure. It was a request of 1.6 million roughly 4.4%.
The question is not whether the the needs exist at the school. It's what the town can sustainably fund within its current re revenue structure. The school budget increase is $371,017
which represents uh 1% and um that's essentially as as much as any department is seeing for an increase this year. So it's it's a short-term belt tightening
for long-term gain. I spoken with uh my counterpart at the school. We've had many discussions and obviously they're not elated with with a 1% increase when they asked for 4.4. Um
but as we were talking before, it's one Norton. We're all in this together. We're we're going to make it work. A little belt tightening and long-term gain. We're talking about I'm jumping into the next slide. Uh
next slide, please. Yeah, there you go. Is uh joint forecast. So, if we're providing more more funding, it's important that we're not just filling gaps. We're we're fixing the system. It it needs to be more stable, more steady, not just more
pressure next year walking out of the frying pan into the fire. So that means that schools and towns, all the departments need a shared approach. And then that's what we're discussing. Uh the department heads, you know, what what's a realistic long-term uh funding
structure look like? And then they can internally plan when we have three-year, fiveyear expectations. then they can make the the curriculums make the staffing work to fit the budget rather than the other way around which
is kind of backwards budgeting. So we're I mean we're we're not far apart honestly talking about the the 3 to 5year plan. Uh the town and the schools are planning together. Um there's efficiencies we can find where we're talking about um shared
services for for snow plowing for for mowing for IT for firewalls um looking into major cost drivers transportation um energy
utilities uh areas of shared concern and I I have confidence that we'll continue to work together and and find efficiencies that will benefit not one department but again one Norton everyone as a whole. So
we can improve efficiency over time and create a more stable path forward. Next, here's some current pressures that will continue to next year. health insurance. Uh, no one knows where it's going to
land la next year. Uh, the last two years have been brutal. It hasn't been this high in as long as I can remember. But that's why if we have a solid foundation, we can weather storms like an off year that's 12% in insurance. And when that
represents uh 10 million of a $80 million budget, um, that's quite the impact. um pension and oped are things that we need to continually plan for um not be reactive to but I mean uh I mean the power of
investing when we're just throwing a little bit at OP each year it's going to chip our way at it exponentially u we need to manage our capital our debt and plan for things like um hopefully we won't have another snow and ice year u next year like we did this year but we
need to be prepared for things like that. So, we're managing broad-based pressure, not just a single department, not just a single uh struggle, balancing all these things to come up with a plan that works
for everyone or most people. Next, and this was cited as the the biggest driver going into this year's budget season. So it was projected to be a 12% increase and through collaboration with other
municipalities through teamwork this was this was reduced to approximately 8%. Savings of $400,000 which frankly allowed us to survive this year.
Um uh I I want to recognize Jen Soka who played a key role um in my office. She's a benefits HR specialist and her analysis and uh behind the-scenes support really helped us to achieve this
savings. That improvement helped stabilize this year's recommendation without reducing services. And we're going to continue to discuss this moving forward because I mean we have until May 18th when town meeting
meets, but we have some health insurance budget proposals that we're currently discussing with unions. In fact, I was discussing earlier today with one of the members and we we there's a lot of common ground. I mean, our initial proposal
I I don't want to, you know, sour anything. We need to work with the unions together and then we can benefit the the employees take care of their long-term health and also help the taxpayers and help the I mean reduce
pressure on the budget, allow us to fairly compensate our employees and keep up with inflation and our health insurance plan. We have a couple things in the works. Um hopefully we'll be we'll have a couple of solutions in the
next few weeks and um if some of them take longer, they take longer. Next, so this explains how uh there's cost drivers that are beyond our control. health insurance, uh the costs of education and state aid, they're just
not keeping up with with the reality. Um so that's why we need to uh carry the gap. We need to plan for our future. Um buckle down and and make it work.
I mean, some people say to to do more with less. Um but but really it's just to do the best you can and try to to serve the residents. If you're in highway filling potholes or if you're in assessors giving out abatement
applications to do it with a smile and to um to to serve the people. Uh next, so this is the responsible path that we're embarking
down that helps us to set in place a a solid budget for years to come. So we're going to moderate growth. We're not shrinking. We're not going backwards. We're just growing a little bit slower for a couple years. And then year three is is
God willing business as usual. Uh we'll have enough for for raises for uh to pay our employees fairly to provide the the staffing that will provide for emergency services, give our our kids in the
classroom the special education services they need and provide for u the long term. So, we've taken a meaningful step this year where we're halfway there to closing the structural deficit.
Um, the plan is to continue that trajectory over the next few years. To make it work, there's a glide path that'll get us there. Uh, next, and I kind of referred to this a little bit earlier, so it's 1.6 this year, 500,000
next year, and then the following year, we'll be in a surplus. We'll be investing into stabilization. um capital that provide a return on um investment. Uh we'll be buying capital with cash instead of paying interest.
We'll be earning interest on our stabilization on our trust funds instead of paying interest. So it's a phased approach, not abrupt cuts, but steady movement towards stability.
And this discipline choice will um give us dividends. Uh next, this is the core principle in responsible budgeting. Um it's not my opinion. And it's it's the state experts that have dedicated their careers to
this and and their guidance is to use recurring expenses for recurring um revenues or strike use recurring revenues for recurring expenses. It it's just the common sense way to
plan for the future. it's it's going to pay dividends. If you use one-time money to balance the budget, you're not solving the problem. You're scheduling the problem. And next is how that principle is
applied in our budget next year. Next slide. So free cash as we know is unspent funds from the prior year's budget and stabilizations are savings account. These are tools that are best used for one-time um strategic
investments, capital, snow and ice, emergencies. So, this promotes long-term thinking to invest in our future to
uh proactively plan. And we've actually started a a 10-year capital plan which you'll hear more about um at one of the next two meetings. We'll report back the capital improvement committee and we'll report back on this year's capital but also
what all the departments have looked looked ahead to. And I mean that includes um envelope repairs. I mean, things like if if a roof needs replacement, it shouldn't come as a surprise. We should have it scheduled
and we should know when it's going to come up on the schedule. The same with our fleet. The same with um anything really. We So, we're looking at making schedules and then the fire department, to their credit, been been good on this about scheduling engines
and and ambulances and paying a little each year because you can't just buy one of those in cash. There's certain things you do need to borrow for. Um so so we're going to work the plan
create a sustainable budget for the next 5 10 years plus. Um next at a high level this protects the town's core services. Um this year actually uh education's up a percent, fire is actually down uh 3% and police is down
1%. the the fire deficits uh due to um electricity is leaving some electricity is leaving the fire department and going into facilities because it used to be fire to to heat that building when town hall was there but we need to reallocate
some of that um over here. So it's not as bad as as that would make it seem. And there's also some stipens that um we lost a couple of uh positions. We lost paramedics and gained EMTs. So the paramedics had
higher stipens. The EMTs have lower stipens. So that also reflects some of that reduction. Um at the same time, town operations are tight. Fixed cost pressures are absorbed. things like benefits,
insurance, fuel, oped, other post-employment benefits, uh centralized collective bargaining obligations, and other mandatory obligations like keeping the electricity on and the the utilities on are in fixed costs. You'll notice
fixed and shared cost went from 22.9 million to 24.1 million, a 5% increase. And that's I mean that's not negotiable things. I mean the health insurance um it it still went up high. It went you
know almost 8% not 12% but still up a high year. Um we have to cover utility costs and that's you know $1 towards those overhead is $1 less that we can put where where we need it. And if if we
have the cushion, we have a stable structurally sound budget, then in off years when we do have an un unforeseen expense, then we can meet it head on and we can um you know flex a little when when we're turning back uh such a low
amount, what 750,000, then it's it's hard to flex at all when when these pressures come. Um so there's more detailed budget numbers in the handout. I just highlighted a few major departments here. Uh this is a balanced approach and
to support critical services while maintaining overall discipline. And the final slide next. So this avoids a crisis. It's it's we're not at a crisis point, but we're we're headed in the right direction. We're looking to thrive. We're creating
stability. We're working a plan. And there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Um, we're going to get through this together. And I mean, this won't be the only hard year. Hard year's come. And we're going to meet it head on. And
I have full faith in the department heads, uh, the employees, and all of the unpaid volunteers here, uh, to make it work. And, and because that's what we do. happy to uh walk through any part of this in more detail as the the committee
likes. Uh there's some handouts here. Um Mark on some of your handouts here um which I think has
all the departments and your recommendation. What we're not seeing is really what was the department's recommend or what was Yeah. What was the
department's recommendation versus what you're coming up with to see what's being cut dollar-wise? So that we can then ask the some of
somewhat obvious question, what is that going to hurt and how are you going to deal with it to the department heads? So without that it's a little difficult to really see what's
changing. >> Hey >> Mr. Chair, can I add to that too that not just the final numbers but we're getting you know itemized lists from all the departments from fire department from police department. Um you know what is what is the overtime going to look like for both of those departments especially now that you're cutting a
firefighter a police officer. Um, I mean, we're I feel like there's a lot of detail that we're not seeing um in your recommendations compared to what we saw with the requests. Like if we could see the same layout that we saw for the request and then you'd be able to
compare side by side, it'd be easier to see where the hits were were happening. >> Yeah, because devil's in the details. I'm >> happy to provide that. I can email it tonight.
Mr. Chair, I just had a question regard and right out of the gate, Mark, your um town managers line item for personnel services is up 86,000. I thought that was a net neutral from this year to last year with your new hires. >> It it is. We actually we took a position
from the treasurer's office and moved that person to the town manager's office. >> So, you've taken a spot and again that would have been nice to show here. you know that is the one of the reasons for that bond. It's a great question. >> Okay. I was just >> Yeah. Okay.
>> Mr. Chairing. >> Yeah. I just wanted to um I just your presentation is if you read any of the and I'm sure you probably have any of the um finance committee reports that go on the inside of the um
town report that gets published every year. that big thick book that probably doesn't get cracked open by very many people. It says exactly that, that this committee has been saying for the almost decade that I've been on this committee, long before that, that recurring
expenses should not be paid um or cannot be paid or sustainably paid and that eventually we would, you know, not be able to cover all of the expenses that the town has. And so I think I echo what my colleagues are asking which is what
people will want to know, what we will want to know in terms of what our recommendations are that there have to be services or um personnel that are cut to make this work. Um because that's why the recurring non-recurring
um revenue was used was to sustain even just a little bit and even then we still had to make cuts. So I think that's what I'm most curious about are all those little details. And and >> do the do the budgets take into account
the the latest and greatest uh contracts or is that still an unknown? So, uh, a couple couple good points. Um, first first point, um,
yes, you can certainly talk to any of the departments you like. Any information you want, I'm happy to provide. There are some reduced services. For example, uh, public works is not able to, uh, plow sidewalks, is
not able to empty trash cans on the rail trail. um staffing up public safety is necessarily impacted when they have one head less on the fire and on the police. Um yes, they can have people call in for
overtime. Um but it's it's necessarily a a juggling act, a shuffling act. And then you can talk to any of them and and they'll they'll frankly tell you what the trade-offs are. How do they get away with not plowing the sidewalks? I thought that
was mandated for kids that live within a certain mileage of the schools or you got to provide them with transportation. And Mark, >> uh, so there there's actually upon consultation with the school department, there's only about like 10 kids that walk to the to the high school.
>> What about >> what about that? >> And um, but and there is something on the town meeting warrant which we'll see at the next meeting. Uh the public works director asked for a bylaw to require people to shovel the sidewalk in front of their house after it snows.
>> Yeah. >> So we'll we'll see that uh in the in the next week and give you all an opportunity to weigh in on that. And to to Bill's question, uh the school raises uh due to timing um
have been, you know, taken into consideration in in the budget. Um the town raises are still under uh negotiations. So there is a centralized compensation uh provision um that has an attempt to address the upcoming
bargaining. >> So So we do have a line item with some >> I'll I'll be crucifi that's a good word. Yeah. with a buffer that
we hope would be sufficient to handle whatever the raises ultimate or whatever the contract ultimately outlines and
gets put into these budgets. Uh yes sir. We need to pay people fairly if we expect to keep them. And and can can I can can I just go back to that comment you just made of
>> like not emptying the rubbish on the on the the walking trails or whatever >> the rail trail. >> Yeah. Is that like >> we simply don't have the manpower to >> So what's going to are we taking away
the receptacles or or is it just going to overflow and we're going to say too bad? >> The receptacles are in the the highway garage. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> They're taken in before the first snow. >> Okay. >> J. >> So it's like a national park like the federal system. The carry in carry out.
>> Yeah. Hopefully. Paul. >> Yeah. Do we know what the um school raises were? Because I'm almost thinking, Mark, you're going to be looking at parody on the general government side. >> I won't publicly speak to our collective bargaining strategy, but the two and a
half the school raises should know that that should be public. >> I looked on the school website and I couldn't find them. I'll have to ask the school directly for them. >> Yeah, once it's ratified, it's should be public. >> Supposed to be posted. I thought it was ratified. >> Supposed to be posted within a fair number of days, too, on the town
website. So, >> so you know their budget last week cuz I just caught up reading the information their salaries of 2 million. Was that
pre or post raises or a contract? Is that 2 million before or after? >> It's it's it's post because they actually paid a retro to July 1st. Is that what you're going to say? >> Yeah. I asked Dr. O'Neal and she said it included the contractual.
>> Okay. >> So their first year of their contract is actually this current fiscal year. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I asked her how she did it. Um she found a way. >> There's a will. There's a way.
>> Mr. Chairman Zack Steve Evans been trying to log on. I don't know if somebody can let him in. >> Pass him. >> And he should show up as a participant, Mr. Chair. >> Correct. >> But I think he had a time trying to get
into the meeting. >> Yes. We've >> assuming he did. >> Yes. >> Yeah. We've already said that that it would be >> for the duration. >> Oh, gotcha. >> Um I'm receiving word from the
superintendent that they settled at 2.5%. >> Who's apparently per >> someone watches our meetings >> per year. Per year per year for the three years. I check >> at least for one. >> So two and a half for this current year or for next year or for the year after or all three.
>> Maybe she will follow up with a clarification >> for this. >> Thank you. >> Coming year at least, >> Mr. Chair. >> Mark, can you can you speak to some of the things you remember off the top of your head in terms of you said one
police not being filled, one fire not being filled. Did you say a senior center was going to have an impact? >> Uh we were we were hoping to provide a receptionist which would have been above and beyond level uh service. So >> okay
>> not a additional ne negative impact but just something good that we're not able to do right now. >> Any other positions that were either are not being filled or cut? >> Uh that that's that's it. just a police
officer and a firefighter, which um >> I would have loved to get you the information Friday, but I figured out at 3:30 in the morning last night that unfortunately those two positions couldn't make the cut. >> And do you do you know from talking to Dr. O'Neal um what a 1% budget's going
to do? How many cuts that's going to mean for schools? >> Well, I >> that was in last week's presentation. a 1% I think >> I think >> no she said if she didn't get >> if she didn't get anything she said 5 to 10 for the whole budget I guess >> what's a 1% do for I guess is the questions on
>> so 5 to 10 divided by four >> be seven or eight >> and >> I mean I mean and she and they do have resignations and people that are not making tenure um so these are not necessarily people
that are being laid off. There might be layoffs. I don't want to speak for the school, but you know, they have a significant amount of staff and bodies, right? But someone someone retiring
that's still a need that you got to fill either by a body or you got to get those 15 20 25 kids into other rooms that may already have 15 20 25 kids. So there's
an impact there. Um so update 2.5 2.5 2.75 um and they are redistricting you know due to enrollment dropping the current elementary class sizes are less than
they have been before. So they're evaluating, you know, you know, we've always had x number of whatever grade teachers, but what's most appropriate than keeping people at the same level. >> Yeah, she she had spoke to that
last week. Um I I forget whether it was police or fire where they had indicated that it was an open position that they were
giving up. So is that what is happening here or is it an actual person? >> Oh no no we um we just didn't backfill. So, it's not an actual person and police and fire.
>> So, it's an open position with nobody in it. >> And correct. And in an average year, there's probably two police officers and two firefighters that resign or transfer that that need to be backfilled. So, we're we are currently backfilling those
positions as the the openings arise. We just kind of placeholdered one just in case. And I'm glad we did because I' I I wouldn't want to have to send a pink slip to anyone. >> Right. >> Mr. Chair, we just um Mark, in this
current fiscal year, are you going to be coming back for a reserve fund for some of the um separation expenses and stuff where we've had some employees leaving or is that new >> uh other account handle that or >> That's actually covered under the accumulated absences account that we
created a couple years ago. Okay. >> Um, but I mean there there might be a utility request or a um there was something else not on the tip of my tongue, but there might be a
request. Um, and Mr. Chair. Yeah. Mark, do you have a ret the uh a retiree representative on your insurance committee? >> Because they're supposed to be represented as well when you're doing any kind of negotiations for changes. >> We're we're actually >> you don't have one get one. I
>> I don't want to jump ahead of myself, but today we were talking about reconvening the the PE the PEC and there will be a retiree representative on that. >> Used to be Chief Bridges. Retired. Chief Bridges used to be on it. May you rest in peace. >> Mr. Chair,
>> Mr. real quick. >> Promise. >> Steve, uh, do you have a question? >> No, I'm good at this point. Thank you guys for getting me in. Appreciate it. >> Okay, you have your hand up. >> No, that's >> Is that the mouse? >> That's the mouse.
>> That's his mouse. >> That's the mouse. >> That's Mark's hand. >> Oh, >> looks like Steve's hand, gentlemen. >> Okay. Yeah, >> Mr. Chair Paula. >> Um, Mark, the reserve fund, how much has been spent to date?
for fiscal year 26 >> reserve >> $0. >> Okay. And we want to budget $165,000 for FY27. >> The same amount as this year. I mean it's it's I guess we could be flexible.
I' I'd exercise caution if I mean I would love to just say yeah, let's take that and give a firefighter or give a teacher. I mean I'd love to and if that's what you choose to do, that's what you choose to do. um just because we only meet twice a year. If we have unanticipated
needs, we'd have to call a special town meeting to to try to fund something. So, it it is useful in case of emergencies. I I know we haven't used it yet. Um >> Okay. >> It's because we had used 181.
>> Mr. Yeah, Zach >> Mark, what is the free cash balance after this? >> After this, I will have to check and get back to you. Um, off the top of my head, it was 5 million. We put um
maybe uh maybe 5 to 700,000 into last year's budget, 1.6 six million into next year's budget, a million into capital. We probably funded another article or two. So, I'd say there's probably
probably around a a million a million to a million and a half depending on snow and ice totals, but I'll get back to you with the exact number. Okay. Anybody else? Mr. Chair, >> Kevin,
>> Mike, >> Mark, I know in the presentation we had gotten a lap spend through December. I know prior years it'd be ideal to see through March. Now the third quarter is over the spending by department as opposed to just the high level 45%.
>> I can get that to you tonight. >> Yeah. Uh just to um build on what Kevin just said. So typically we we see this spreadsheet that you gave us, but there's a column for expended through March ideally
of the current fiscal year. Um the department's request and then your recommendation and then there'll be a blank column for our recommendation. So we'd love to see the spreadsheet just redone with those columns. That would be
great. No problem. That sadly goes to land landscape. >> Yeah, >> Mr. Chair Paul, >> just both the police chief and the fire chief when they were in Mark talking
about the amount of time it takes to backfill a position as far as getting somebody interviewed on board, trained and all that that uh I almost and I had voiced it then I'd like to see it funded and have it get kicked back in free cash for next year if they don't get the
position in line but they have the funding available so they can start the process to do it kind of a deal. So I know you're trying to save and balance it and not have but it takes so long to get them on board that it's uh you're always chasing it. So it's like we never have our full aotment and then when
there's problems we end up using overtime which is one and a half times the cost of if you had the person there. So it's a you know it's a another 50% negative when they're hiring in at overtime to fill a spot that uh that hopefully we could have filled possibly through a the process. So, you know, I I
personally would like to see both positions possibly funded in there with the caveat to the Chiefs that that it's it's to give them the chance to start getting them on board. It's not to bang them right out July 1st or something like that there, but to start working to fill the spots so that they can
literally try to stay ahead of that one or two retirements. And I think there is some retirements that the chief alluded to in the fire department. So, I'd hate to see us suddenly down three spots that they're using. So the shifts are short and I'm hiring overtime round the clock just to keep the stations open and I
know that to keep Charlie open it's a it's a draw. So >> Right. Right. You'll see a a recommendation from free cash to backfill what or to to pay out the contracts for two retiring fire officers in in next year.
>> Yeah. >> And we do need a plan for training. It takes a few months to get fire and police up to up to speed and pay for their so >> and that's before they count for staffing as far as uh you know the contracts go as well. So then they're
there but they're and they're they're great learning but they're not counting as part of that minimum staffing. Right. We currently have three firefighters who are not, you know, trained to to fight fires right now, but they're getting up to speed with with the crews,
and they they should be off to the academy uh shortly in the in the coming months. >> So, that's kind of your buffer with the free cash, but I'd almost like to see that maybe tweaked if it's possible, Mark. But uh um but >> I we're working closely with the Chiefs
to try to make that happen. And I know Sean uh to Chief Simmons has someone that he he would like to to start now. Um but without salary in the budget, I I can't hire someone if we don't have money to pay them. >> So it's someone that doesn't need
training and transfer from another department. Um, but I mean if we started them now and then waited till someone retired then then we'd probably pay more money than if we had to train somebody in we don't have any confirmed retirement
dates. So it's hard to to schedule these things. >> Mr. Chair >> follow >> on the uh revenue expenditure sheet you gave us. Mark, it looked like it looks like there's a reduction in the amount of ambulance receipts that's going to be
used for FY27. Could you speak to that because I know that the fire department has has used that before to help their budget. >> Right. Um so I'm I'm informed that uh that account has been
I mean I I mean depleted there there's currently some money in there but last year we allocated 800,000 for the fire station renovation as a result of town hall construction in addition to bonding for
uh fire engines for ambulances. And I mean, right now it's paying for 11 uh approximately 11 firefighters in this year's budget. I guess it paid for 12 firefighters from last year's budget. I I was told that wasn't a sustainable
source of of revenue and that it had been rated. I I don't that's a word with connotations, but it had been used extensively. Um, so the recommendation was to I mean they wanted a million and I said, "Chief Simmons, could I please
have 1.1?" And he said, "Well, you're my boss, so yes." >> Okay. Thanks, >> Mr. Chair. >> Sandy, >> the the looking at the same kind of line of questioning looking at the Hicks fund. I I know last year we increased
that and that was I thought pushing the boundaries of what that money was intended for. Um and and with another increase is that how is that working in terms of um you know we were always told that we couldn't use we could only use that for certain things and we couldn't
take that much money out. So how is that not increased? Um, so that's the the trustees made the decision to uh to vote 300,000 uh for this year's budget and you're correct that can be used only for
for cemetery related work um which highway will will honor and devote the the resources from the hick fund uh for those purposes a little more than last year. I think it was 280 to 300
Anything else? >> Mr. Chair, it's uh I could be way out in left field, but it's really hard for me to come up with a lot of questions without seeing what we talked about, right? spending till March. The delta
between what the department's requested and and what the town manager is recommending. Um because we've seen and heard about reductions. I just I'm having a tough time really understanding how it's going to impact each department.
>> Understood. Mr. Chair Zach, >> I guess I'm interested, I guess, for the entire committee here is what their thoughts are, what everybody's thoughts are on this approach. I know we've been talking
about it for years. I know Bonnie mentioned it was put in the recommendations for years, but um we've made it work. Um using all available funds. I don't necessarily agree with the term
one-time funds. They're not one-time funds. They're variable funds. They're there every year in varying amounts. And I just can't see a scenario where we're building a park with free cash while laying off school teachers, firefighters, and police officers. I
just it's just not I don't think it's going to fly with the community. Uh when you don't have food on the table and you don't have to eat, you don't fund your 401k. I know we're talking about OPED, but last I looked, less than
1% of OPED obligations statewide have been funded. Nobody's funding these. There one community they pass an override to fight them, but other than that, very little is being put into OPED funds. So, what what we're being asked here, and
again, I haven't I still going to need time to digest all these numbers, is basically rolling my office year after year after year. Um, we're not going to use free cash. So, every year we're going to continue to degrade our schools because expenses will rise faster than
the income year after year after year as we've seen and we've used all available funds to fund these departments. So, I guess my my question for the committee, are we ready to go down this road of saying we're not
going to use free cash and uh just take the axe to everything? five for worse than we've done previously. >> Mr. Chair, I think to answer Zach's question personally, I we need to see I think what the actual cuts are going to be, right? It's >> what positions are we talking about and
how many. >> Mr. Chair, >> so super >> That's exactly what I was getting at. Uh Sandy, it's it's I personally I just we need to see it all right where it's being cut and uh whatnot. So yes, uh
Zach, I guess yeah, I mean I I understand where you're coming from. It's just hard to say, yeah, we're going to take the axe unless we know where it's >> Well, I mean, the school department's already said they're not going to tell you what they're cutting because they don't want to personnel issues. So they're going to tell you roughly how many positions and it's going to be up to them.
>> She just said six to eight probably. And to be clear, we're not talking about building a park the same year that teachers are being le laid off. That's that's foolishness. >> I agree with that. But uh there's no end in sight based on, you know, rough in
two years. That's that's what the plan showed. >> Okay, Miss. Yes. Your name, address. Hi, Debbie Winston, 77 Elm Street. Zach,
I do understand what you're saying, but I want to commend our new town manager. Thank you very, very much. And I can say that's the majority of the residents cuz what you're saying, Zach, is you're
not putting in all the COVID money that inflated these budgets. So, what I hear the town manager saying is, "We're going back to reality." And don't worry, I work for the schools. The schools are
going to be able to handle it. If you knew what us teachers do, we can do it. And we need to get this town fiscally responsible, transparent, and that was the mandate that the residents wanted.
and I commend our new town manager. Thank you, sir. >> Thank you. >> So, so the state of Massachusetts says OPED's 6% funded statewide.
We are 2% funded and paying $4.5 million in in interest. Is that not paying accumulating? Anything else or are we waiting until next week when we have more information?
>> Mr. J, can we get those spreadsheets um possibly within the next few days, Mark? Maybe just to get get it some time to really digest them. >> Sure. To to make sure I understand. And so you're looking for a column with the department recommendations, a column for the finance committees uh
recommendations and year-to- date spending. >> March 30th. >> Yeah. >> As of March 31st. >> Okay. That probably >> if you don't have March, February, >> I No, I I have March. Um it'll just be a
separate report. It'll take me longer to integrate that into the spreadsheet. >> Um >> Mr. Did you by Friday before the weekend? >> Zach, >> um, correct me if I'm wrong, Mark, but I
thought you had requested that the town departments submit a level funding budget. So, you have the recommendations here. That's last year's budget. Basically, they never I don't believe they submitted their their requests. you asked them to
produce a level funding budget which would be last year's budget. So >> that's with with certain had to have you know salaries and and >> steps and contractual obligations and and and some people just uh included
other things. Um but it it was very helpful to see where the true budget stressors are. It was more of a we're always talking needs versus wants and you can see that clearly um with where the real pressures bubble up. I know the
pattern is to have everyone come in with all their asks and then you whittle it down to what's needed. If you start with what's needed and you see, oh, electricity is going up, you got to fund that or um stipens are going up yet you have no choice. You have steps, we need
salt. uh these are the the essentials that we're we're funding. But but I'll you for what it's worth, I'll give you what the department's >> um recommended. I just I hesitate to give a a new request to them to make all
new budgets. It's time consuming and I don't think that's what the committee wants. No, we're we're whatever they came to us presenting, you know, weeks ago or in the coming days. Um, you know,
that's their request. Then there's, you know, what they've spent through March, so 3 months or nine months out of the year, your recommendation, and then we figure it out from there. like a a blank column. Yeah,
>> column and we put what's recommended, what we recommend. >> So, >> okay, I can I can format that. >> Three new columns, blank column. >> Mr. Chair, Mark, when you um when you come up with these numbers, I mean, and
you just reduce it. I'm assum assuming it's not just arbitrarily, you know, cutting whatever $1,000. Is it is there a line item that you were thinking that you're that you're itemizing or are you just leaving that completely up to the department heads to figure out?
>> It's it's super collaborative. Um, I've had at least three meetings with each department head and every time I take a red pen to an item, I'll shoot them a text, an email, and often I have to add those items back in
because I didn't understand something that that they help me understand. So, I guess for me, the more detail that you can give about where those cuts are going to be within that department, um, like I said, the overtime to me is concerning because
I would think with a one down, one body in each, you're going to have potentially more overtime. That was what one at least one of the chiefs had said um, is a concern. So, I don't know if that line item was increased from what their request was or decreased um, and how that's going to impact. you know, it
doesn't really make sense to decrease that line and then have to come back in the fall and and push it back in from free cash. Kind of in the same position we we're now understood >> kind of like this. >> I don't know if you
>> Yeah. The the department requested and your recommendation. So we're just going to decimate town services. You know what they >> You want to see the three the department me fin >> department >> spent yearto date you fin. And then you
know that that's why it's >> goes this way. >> Okay. >> Because it gets a little >> tougher to >> that's just what's been done in the past and it just makes it seems to make it easier. >> Right. I agree,
>> Mr. Chair. >> Paul, >> Mark, we had talked um last meeting, the meeting before, like the Edith Reed had a lot of carryover funds year after year. Um I I think there's like a three-page spreadsheet of all those kind of of funds. Are they something you've
delve do delved into yet as a way to possibly try to uh cash some of those out to also um fund potentially uh some of the contracts or anything like that there cuz you start adding a one or 2% raise into any of these general
government size contracts. It's going to be a pretty sizable lot. >> Pretty sizable. >> Yeah. Um I I I believe awarded me that spreadsheet. >> Oh, you're talking about this one? Yeah. So, thank you uh for that. >> I don't know if that's the newest copy of what the date of that was.
>> This is this was from October of 2025. >> Yes, that's actually uh >> uh so we are um our new IT director is uh purchasing laptops from one of those appropriations. Um I'm looking at the the select board
uh town manager lines. There's only a couple. One of them is the Jackson property um which we perform some maintenance. So, we do regularly spend uh money from there, but that's, you know, as I continue to go through this, I can
definitely look at that >> as a potential um item for review. I mean, there's another one. and I just didn't have time to put it in. But we're um we're probably going to be cutting like 90% of
the cable bills, which 90% of 20 or 30,000 is a decent amount of money. Um so I haven't been able to make that adjustment yet, but I'll like to come back to the committee with with these types of one-time
buffers. >> Yes. Um Peter J. Wiggins mayor Morton and last night I posted an article from 2008 and then from April 6 from the Sun Chronicle it's Martin fire chief Richard Gomes again plans totally fire station
hours to save money the following year which is 2019 town manager James Purcell said as public safety public health and public works where PCEL's top three budget priorities for the fiscal year starting July 1 versus PCEL has presented a 46.8 8 million balance
budget proposed that SW $33,260 less than current spending. That's due to the big revenue projected on record of so-called free cash and which Nton has spent of $1 million this year. And that year, Nton had a proposition of Orlando
failed and do the same road. Nope. >> Thanks, Peter. >> Thanks, Peter. >> Mr. Chair Mark, I I know you've got like a glide path in here that shows, you know, we're we're kind of hyperfocused on 27, but
you've got a view that goes out 28 29. You've got the first page here that kind of walks a full, we'll call it a P&L. Do you have in some kind of backup a walk of the assumptions you're making that shows kind of how we get down to
this not relying on these one-time funds? I mean, I just look at the revenue sources, right? And it's like 66% of our revenue is going to grow at 2 and a half. 21% of it's essentially flat as a pancake. Like what assumptions have
to be true for that free cash walk to make sense? >> It's great question. Um, new growth would obviously uh >> you've got to have a plug in there.
something has to change. >> Put the pedal to the metal. There's also, I mean, efficiencies. I mean, people are doing jobs that computers and AI can do. I'm not saying we're we're going to cut staff, but every time there is an opening, that's an opportunity to
assess if we've been doing it the way it's always been done or if we could let a consultant go that we're paying over $100 an hour for and have someone come in staff and do the same do a better job for $60 an hour. And we've implemented a
few of these. And >> do the department heads have kind of a vision? Like have you provided the departments with the vision of where you need to get in a multi-year view of like AI adoption? You need to get X% efficiency per year to make this work.
We're still in the uh initial conversations uh that's exactly what we need to do. We need to look out 3 years, 5 years, uh anticipate what the revenue will be and give department heads expectations of
what what efficiencies we're we're looking for. I did talk speak with the department head today who's and we're discussing when when this person uh resigns or transfers we're going to take that position and
turn it into more of where the actual need is which will in turn bring in money rather than doing something that's uh always been done. So these opportunities,
some of them are unplanned for. You can't plan when somebody um leaves employment a lot of the time, but I mean our DPW is is doing great um in bidding out things that traditionally haven't been bid. And I mean there's a lot of
money that's been uh accounting accounted for as as you'll see when when he comes in next week or the week after. I guess we could talk about schedules after this discussion. U but just in hiring the the right
engineering firm and applying for the right grant, using the right grant. Some grants can be used to hire part-time staff. Um other grants um we've frankly been leaving on the table that could
have resulted in in fewer potholes and newer, for example, clean streets or complete streets. We haven't used it for 5 years. We we've left tens of thousands on the table that we'll never see again. We're using it this year. Um so
efficiencies with with staff who are using technology, using best practices, we are going to have the same level of service at a lower cost. And and it's only one year. We have to we have to buckle down for a year or two. then we
can, you know, still be smart with money, but we won't be talking layoffs in in year two, year three, the way we are now. And to say the sky is falling is just I mean eight employees out of
what four or 500 like like we're cycling through dozens every year. Like we'll be okay. and and not to make light of that in any
way, shape, or form, but to those eight employees, you know, they may not be okay. So, I I wouldn't just off the cuff go, well, it's only eight out of 500, so no big deal. >> Well, two of two of them were not
backfilled, so um >> so six, >> Mr. Chair Paul. So, so Mark, Mark, your new DPW director, is he an engineer? >> I thought that was one of the requirements. >> He is not. That was a preferred requirement, but this gentleman just had
unparalleled experience. >> One of the savings that you would have to look for an engineering. >> He's an electrician, which comes in handy. >> Mr. Chair, >> Sandy. >> Yeah. I have no doubt that the schools will make it work like they always do, but I don't think we should minimize the
you know, the impact that this is going to have on even if nobody loses their job, even if there was eight retirees that don't come back, that's a we've already heard from the teachers last year, the impact that they felt over the last couple years, the cuts, um their class sizes going up, their
responsibilities and, you know, their burdens going up. Um it's it's, you know, I I don't know how much I don't know if that's sustainable. They were saying that last year. So, I think you're going to have a lot of burnout. We've heard that from the police and fire, too. So, I think, you know, I I don't want to minimize the impact. Even
if no one's losing their job, if it's a one position that's not filled, that's still an impact. >> Yes, >> Mr. Chair. And I would also say that typically um because the need is so high to have personnel at the elementary level um and
typically the I think no they will speak to that when they're here again. But um the impact is more felt in the upper grades in middle school and high school. I have two high schoolers um and there were cuts made 5 years ago. There were cuts made four years ago. There were
cuts made three years ago. There were cuts made two years ago. There was cut made cuts made a year ago. And then there will be six more cuts made this year. So the cuts are on top of other cuts even though it will be fiscally responsible. And I'm not against being fiscally responsible. But now I would heard 6 years ago that the benefit to my
kids would be minimized. And now 6 years later I have a senior who's graduating and he's done fine. But all the seniors have felt these cuts since they were in sixth grade, since they were in second grade. since that the year my son was born is 2008 where we were talking about
the things that Peter mentioned and there are less um classes that are offered because when someone does retire is not filled that's an elective neither of my sons could take because that that teacher was let go 6 years ago. Um, so all the things that we want our kids to
have to be prepared for when they enter college and when they enter the workforce, they're not being provided and we can't even say what they are anymore because it happened so many years ago. So I don't want to minimize um, you know, what the impact is of being fiscally responsible. I I know that what Debbie said is true that the
people have asked for this, but I think what is going to be felt over the next year and people are going to fight about is whether or not the the the felt impact is affecting them or not. So the people who are elderly and the people who are disabled who don't have their sidewalks plowed are going to be upset
because they can't go outside and do it. But the people who are ablebodied be like, "Yeah, it's fine. I had to give that up. That's okay." Things like that pit neighbor against neighbor. And I just think that's really sad. Um because, you know, I've lived here 20 years and there have been multitudes of arguments about things including money
most of the time. But um I don't think it brings us any closer to our goals overall which are to be able to provide a good educa education to students which is the majority of our budget. Um and I do think that while the government side of things feels things in one way when
the efficiencies um are made or are are enacted, I think the schools feel them very much differently. So we'll be talking about that I know over the next few weeks um and just see how that turns out. >> Kevin So, I know if I sit and wait long enough
with this great committee that you're all going to have the questions that I would have thought of. So, Bonnie, you can put my name tag in front of you anytime you want. >> Um, I just But the one thing I wanted to point out is um getting back Paul to your question about the Jackson property
in Edith Reed. The conservation actually the open space committee, they have not been able to hold a meeting because they didn't enough people for a quorum uh all year. I was just appointed to that committee um as well as a park and wreck. So I would ask that you hold off
and I'd like to see that sheet Paul that has the balances on until I can understand the source of the balances in those accounts, what the original intention was and how it was going to be used and then um work with John Thomas
and the rest of the committee to understand what their future plans are uh with that money. So, um, I' I'd ask respectfully that you don't do anything this May for this budget season until I can get my head around >> that's way beyond conservation in three pages.
>> I'll email to you, Kevin. There's there's a lot there's a lot of articles with unspent money. >> I I know Edith Reed has history. I know Jackson's got money in that account, but I don't know what it was for, what the plans are. I know it's on our agenda for next week for our next meeting I'm going
to. So, I I didn't want Tom man audit to your request. I just don't want any anything coming up at this town meeting that uh in the budget >> too late Kevin appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thank you Brandon.
>> Mr. here. I know uh Mark, everyone's uh no one likes to hear cuts and everyone's kind of uh I want to say jumping on you, but you know >> asking kind of kind of jumping on you, I guess. But I
>> of less than ideal news. >> I I I do want to say um compared to the last town manager we have, we've never had someone look at the future. So I I appreciate that. Um, I you know I I definitely need to understand it more,
but I since I've been here for almost 2 years, we've never had a future plan. So, it's very nice to to see that as well. So, thank you. So, I'm I'm gonna beat a dead horse, which I kept beating with the Oldtown
manager >> in that from speaking to other people in on other Fincoms. I've always asked projections.
Can you provide like a three-year projection? Those other FinCom seem to get it and they're they kind of look at me like why can't you get it, Bill? And I'm like only been asking for like 10 years and
it's and it's yeah, we're working on it. >> I will get my crystal ball out. I'm Are you talking revenue and expenses? But I mean I think revenues might be easier then we can base our expenses on the revenues would be the way I would
build it. >> Right. I mean we we do have uh given where our revenue comes from. We you know 50 60% what whatever was in
your your presentation tonight you already have twothirds of it already built. Um, and we know our expenses to a great degree, especially if you have contracts and whatnot, you know, they're going to go up X.
>> Sure. >> We should be able to see that. >> Sure. That's that's a great suggestion. Uh, like for example, if if we're using the ambulance reserve account the way it should be used, I I think we would be able to add firefighters getting paid
out of that. So maybe not 11, but next year 12, the following year 13, and still be able to afford ambulances and fire engines. >> Mr. Chair, I mean, maybe a way to go about it is, I mean, to your point, you
can project revenue to a decent amount. You can project many of your expenses off of historical bargaining rates, inflation, benefits have gone up 10% the last three years. And then you've got a productivity number which you've got to
tie everything out. And then you assign departments productivity targets. I like that idea as a base as long as we're flexible depending on the on the ground conditions. Yes, I think that's people work towards goals. So that is
that I like it. >> Does this committee look unflexible? Um, this is good feedback. >> Gavin, >> something popped in my my mind. The auditor when he presented to the select
board, he had indicated that about 80% of the free cash is um it's not from 80% of it is from excise tax revenue underestimated. It's not from paybacks or returns from uh excess uh
you know uh budgets from that that previous fiscal year. So that was a shocking number for me. We hear about the free cash four or five million every year. 80% of that is from excise tax revenue not from uh not from
budgets that are under under spent. >> Thank you Kevin. And there is a bill uh pending that would um that would allow people to register their vehicles anyway without paying excise tax. So we oppose that bill. That would put a damper on our budget, a very
big damper. So I I wrote to our representatives and um I'll keep asking them to keep an eye on that. We don't want to jeopardize our local receipts. >> No. Okay. Are we
done with this topic for the evening? Um, okay. So for planning purposes, who is not
available for a meeting on the 22nd? One, two, three, four, five. And and Steve, you're usually 7:30, so then
we wouldn't have a quorum right away. >> Correct. >> That's not going to work. >> Okay. >> You could start at 7:30, Mr. Chair. That's just a suggestion. I won't be there. So, >> yes, >> take it take it for what it's worth. Yeah,
>> I think the Monday's a holiday. >> If needed, I could be online. My son's having surgery on the 21st, so I need to be home. >> Um, >> we have enough time. Otherwise, Bill, if we stack it up somewhere else and go a little later than 9:00, >> I I think we need to stack a few
meetings if we're not going to have the 22nd, >> the Wednesday before. >> Uh >> I mean, the Monday next Monday is light 15th. >> We could add something on to next Monday. We could add public works into next week.
>> What is left to go over? What is the the agenda going forward? We've we've we haven't done many articles. So there are >> it's and that's the same week as public works is the essentially the rest of the
articles >> and then we need to digest the whole budget. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And and we may have to call people >> back to hear you know what this is going to do.
Um, Mr. Chair, do we want to next week? We could, just a suggestion, we could potentially um consider April 27th after the public hearing to be our night that
we vote on the budget and possibly have department heads attend if they can. >> What's the last day?
We we I I think that would be the last advisable day. We wouldn't want to push it into the first week of May. That's too close to get the warrants printed up. >> Yeah, that that's probably the last day we should vote. >> So, just do a few articles every week,
every Monday till then, along with getting the rest of the budget presentations and then wait until the 27th. >> So, we basically have next Monday because the week after >> 13th. Yeah. >> Yeah. So,
>> no longer meeting next Monday for starters. Mr. Chair, >> load it up a little. >> Well, I am saying load it up. >> Yeah, we can get all the rest of them on Monday. >> Bring your coffee.
But then if you're making decisions waiting for the 27th, >> that's a little scary. >> That's you're you've really pushed that to the brink. >> So you nobody wants to have two meetings next week. >> Um
>> yeah, the 15th was a suggestion. >> I know. >> Do you want to ask the same question about availability for the 15th? Bill. >> So, who's available on the fifth? Well, wait. >> Are you available on the 15th? I'm
available at the pleasure of the the committee. >> Okay. Well, >> going on. >> I see. >> Careful. >> Going to Florida after me. >> Okay. >> Okay. Let's turn this way. >> Who's
not available on the 15th? >> Well, I am not. >> Okay, that's two. which is way better than five or six. Um, I would I would recommend
doing two next week. Not that I'm a big fan of that, but >> we need to get it done. I'm not either, but I'm also not a fan of midnight, >> which has been >> I don't think >> possibility in the past.
>> We've we've quit at 11. >> Yeah, Bill, I'm not going to squabble about it. We'll say 11's still too late. >> I think I walked out at 11. Um, >> street lights are off on our street, right? >> How many more articles do we have to
vote on? Oh, this is updated. There's there's about 10 I want to say half of them are DPW so it's it's projects uh capital projects and then the other half are budget related um supplemental
budget um replenishing accumulated absences the the enterprise budget the regular budget that's essentially it mean there's a couple random ones like like the sidewalk bylaw. Um but there's there's
not a whole lot. >> There's been times where those random ones take like a full 2 hours. >> Horrible. >> At town meeting or during this meeting? >> During this meeting? >> Well, exactly. Not the ones we spend two hours on usually. But
>> are we going towards the 15th then? Sounds like >> um >> I can do it. Sounds like the only person was Stephen. >> Well, Steve and Kevin, >> sorry. Yeah. So, I'm fine. >> I'm I'm I'm good with that if it fits
into your schedule. >> Sure. So, uh what topics would you prefer for Monday and Wednesday? I was going to load up all the load up DPW with the finance and the administration together on Monday,
but if you'd prefer to keep them separate, we could do one Monday and one Wednesday or do them together, do something else Wednesday. >> We could talk offline, but whatever. >> Do we want the at least the main department heads to come in Wednesday
>> for that Wednesday? That would probably be smart. So, police, fire, school. >> So, April 15th. >> Yes. >> Police, fire, school. >> Yep. >> And then that way we'll have that updated >> budget. Yep.
>> We didn't want to wait till the 27th for that. But there's just going to be a lot on the >> Well, that they're going to, >> you know, we may >> No, cuz wouldn't you want the information to then vote
>> on the 27th, >> you know, by having the what fire says, what police says, >> what the schools, you know. So, >> usually when we're voting, we're able to ask the questions, then we vote. You know what I mean? When it's I don't know. I just feel like we're going to
have a lot on the 15th with the articles, too. >> I don't think we voted with them here. I thought that's why you had them present. We're going to vote privately discuss. >> We've done both. >> So, I guess DPW is carrying like the heavy lift for the rest of this. They
they can do articles and their budget the same day. In fact, they should. He's going to be here. >> So, that would be Monday definitely. >> Okay. Um, >> you can ask them to come back generated.
>> Before and then they haven't been here. >> Sounds like we're having two meetings no matter what. And then >> well if if if we don't have reason for the second meeting but I I from the way I see it you would
be circling back to okay here's here's the recommended budget. How's this going to hurt or what's this going to hurt? We're going to take that information. we still have to take the budget in its
entirety and then figure it out. So I I I see that in the entirety as the 27th unless people see it otherwise. >> So just what because I've seen this over the years. I worry I guess if we're
going to be potentially debating things on the 27th and actually have to start voting on the budget and we don't have department heads. I feel like this has happened before and we've had questions come up and then you know the town manager will be like, "Oh, I got to go ask that. You know, I'll let you know."
And and then things get delayed, the vote gets delayed. >> Do do we >> That's definitely happened before. >> Okay. Do would we then be asking that they be available? not necessarily have to be sitting here. >> I can be on Zoom. >> Zoom
>> to be on Zoom like if there's a question that I >> mean Dr. O'Neal's answering questions in real time. >> I think most of them are on Zoom now. Ask away. >> Yeah. So >> monitoring us. >> Um >> yeah, that that would be fine. Just as
long as they'd be available for questions when we're debating. >> Yeah. >> Or discussing. Sorry. >> All right. the whole time. >> I I mean, if the committee's worried that there might be too much to digest the 27th, maybe
>> we start voting earlier and that that way if there's anything you need to sleep on or if we need to get back to you, then we would have a date to do that. Well, I I would I would hope all the articles are pretty much done
>> next week so that the 27th is truly just the budget and nothing to do with articles. >> I got to make sure I join. >> That's my hope. >> That's except doesn't the DPW have a lot of
projects and budget? Isn't it kind of budget related? Yes, they they'll be here Monday to take care of Okay. articles and budget. >> Yeah. >> I need to confirm with Justin, but >> yeah, that's >> all right.
>> Sorry, Justin. Whatever you do Monday, you're you'll be here. So, there's no just to confirm there's no meeting on the was that the 22nd or whatever the week of vacation.
So, if that was on the schedule or whatever, we can take that off. >> But we're moving it to Wednesday the 15th. >> 15, right? >> Tax day. >> 15th and
>> tax day. Everybody will be happy. >> So, it sounds like we have three remaining meetings, Mr. Chair. The 13th, the 15th, and the 27th. >> And then there's probably another one, but that could just be minutes or whatnot. presentation,
>> right? That could just be a a safety meeting just in case anything >> runs along. I mean, we would need to print the warrant. And >> I would say two weeks before the 18th, so by May 4th. >> And when is
so our what is what is that? The fincom report needs to be ready by >> let's build upon >> the 27thish. >> You don't have to lay off anybody. There's enough money, right?
>> Right. I mean that the or a couple of days after because you can't have the report until we finish the budget. So, >> so maybe it'd be wise to placeholder April 29th so we could confirm that
everything with the budgets in order, we have the recommendations ready to be voted on. >> I'm not one for more meetings. I just think it it >> kind of makes sense the way you said it there. Um, >> I we could try to get everything for
April 27th and >> Well, we we would need When does the when does everything have to be buttoned up and submitted? That that's the ultimate >> I mean the the drop dead date is a week
before town meeting. The the warrants need to be publicly posted. I don't want to wait until the week before town meeting. I'd rather do it two weeks before. >> So, what what what The drop dead date is what day? >> Town meeting is the 18th. The week before would be the 11th.
>> Mr. Chair, can I suggest because I know last year we talked about the fact that the FINCOM used to um vote on the >> Yes. >> So maybe we could do that on May 4th if we had it ready for May 4th and we could that we could do that at that meeting. >> Right. So if we have the budget by the
27th then um the vice chair has the pleasure of writing the fincom report. >> I knew that you knew that I
>> so if that can be presented by the fourth and then we vote on it because last year we did not vote on it. Um and and a few people members were
not happy. Um so that gives us enough time to make sure it gets to where it needs to go. Gives us enough time to, you know, read it and
um approve it because we won't be making any amendments because it's going to be perfectly written. >> You know it. I know. Uh, and Paul, you wrote it last year. Can you forward it to Brandon? >> I will.
>> Thank you. >> Um, >> yes. >> Okay. >> So, I think we took care of that. Um, yes, the public hearing is still the 27th.
>> And what department heads would you like on the 27th? I don't know if we we just want them available like not here. >> Okay. >> Available for question.
>> Just in case there's a last minute. >> Well, it's also the public hearing, so they maybe the public might also have questions for them too. Like just >> That is true. Even though prior public hearings have had how many participants? >> We're getting really popular.
>> Last year we had a few. Last year we had a record number. >> Well, maybe maybe this year it'll be even more >> on the agenda. >> Well, talking about a tight budget and >> that's when people show up. >> Well, yeah. When I mean there's going to
be a a a contingent who are not going to be happy with what's being proposed. And then there's going to be that contingent who are going to express what was expressed here earlier that everybody
drunk the the COVID Kool-Aid and has never gotten off of it. And there's some truth to that statement. Um, how much can be debated, but there's
some truth to it. We got a bunch of money. we spent it or we put it into the budget, it inflated the budget and you live with it. Now we're trying not to continue to live with it. So is what it
is. More to follow on that. Um we have a set of minutes in front of us. Mr. Chair, I only see two typos. That's all. I wasn't here, so I can't speak to
it. But um your name is spelled wrong under call to order and Jen O'Neal is two L two L's. >> Ah >> Mr. Chair >> Kevin >> Mark I look at these minutes and
normally I try to baseline these as a transcript and base it on the facts of what occurred at the last meeting. And I go through these set of minutes and I read some things like the
committee struggled to follow as pretty strongly worded opinions in meeting minutes >> that I don't think are fully qualified to be put on record.
You know, I don't necessarily feel the need to defend myself like I think, you know, appreciate that Bill, you know, defended all of us, but I too have an MBA, a masters of finance, work in corporate finance and just spent
90 minutes doing a balance sheet flux review and a P&L variance analysis for what I do in corporate finance. So, I read this and it reads to me like the opinion is we're a bunch of fools. And that may seem a little strong, but
things like inconsistency in understanding financial controls and audit processes as a reflection of this board. I don't find any of that consistent with what was discussed last week. So, I have a problem with these
minutes in their entirety. understood and as as ministers many different ways of doing it. I advocate for just listing the votes. Some people list the the discussion points, others try to go verbatim. I mean, there's a
middle ground, of course. And just for the record, I don't I don't think the minutes are meant to disparrage anyone or even the the committee in general. I think that might have been alluding to potentially information that wasn't provided the committee that led to
confusion. So So I I understand your point. >> Well said. So, >> do I >> take it we'd like these revamped a tad
to to more speak to the black and white facts and and what occurred and not to provide any type of opinion
>> which is what minutes from where I've come from what minutes should be just state the facts. Um >> and not vote on these. >> We just wait and see about a revamp.
>> Okay. >> Back. >> Yeah, that's fine. >> Okay. Well, we'll just we'll bring them back next time revamped if if that's agreeable with the committee. >> Works for me.
Uh, Mr. Chair, just uh one, if we're going to revisit them anyway, I do have one content note, but I first did want to second everything Kevin said. I think uh regardless of intent, there's a pretty
inappropriate amount of interpretation in these minutes. Um, as far as the content goes, the minutes do have to describe uh what was said and not not maybe what some of us meant to say. So, I kind of would defer to the committee on whether or not
I said something different here. But, um, as far as acknowledging the budget materials have been received 11 days prior, uh, but had not been reviewed, I did definitely acknowledge that they've been received 11 years prior. The reason I knew to look up the email
that I knew would be there was because I had opened it and read everything in it. And I think the question was posed whether or not I had re reviewed them before uh our town manager uh very wisely cut off the conversation. So um I think I might strike the end of that
sentence. Uh and I think I acknowledged feedback regarding the books themselves. But whatever we got in that email I I did read. So, if I misspoke the minutes, unfortunately, I have to reflect that. But I don't know if anybody has some thoughts on that note or if we could
shorten that sentence. >> I think that whole that whole paragraph is I mean, it's that that was a two-minute conversation at the end of the meeting from what I watched. and I wasn't here but I watched the meeting and the majority of the meeting was the budget presentation that should be with the majority of the minutes right the the majority of the content of the
minutes and and certainly public speaking at the end you know there were concerns raised you know sentence or two would be more than adequate doesn't have to get into all the >> I I I think I covered a lot of that at
the beginning of this meeting >> I'm excited to see those That's >> so, >> you know, I I understand what Gavin's saying here and I I I just thought
that whole portion of the meeting was inappropriate. I'll just leave it at that. >> I think your summary was great, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Um, I think we could find an a a way to describe what happened to
everyone's satisfaction. Anything else? Cuz I'm I'm, you know, now I'm like having so much fun. I don't want this to end. But, you know, I'll I'll take a motion if people have had enough.
Mr. Chair, one thing I I wanted to mention. I know there was some going back and forth. Can we get like an email within the next couple of days for the meetings that are coming up? >> Just I have four scheduled. I could >> Okay. I just want to make sure I know
there was some going back and forth and we were talking and it wasn't necessarily uh picked up by the mic. So, I just want to make sure everyone's aware that's >> next week is Monday, Wednesday. Okay. The following week is no meeting
>> and then the week after is the Monday the 27th >> and then a contingent one on the 29th, right? A backup >> on the 4th. Uh fourth, sorry. >> Yeah. >> So, everyone hear that? Just want to
make sure everyone's got it. >> Loud and clear. Vice Chair Noble. Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion. I'd like to make a motion to adjourn. Second. >> Uh Steve, >> yes. >> Zach,
>> yes. >> Kevin, >> yes. >> Brandon, >> yes. >> Oh, sorry. Gavin, >> yes. >> Bonnie, >> yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Sandy, >> yes. Paula >> yes >> Paul >> yes
>> I to yes >> thank you journ 85 15.