Okay. Uh, the first item on the agenda is accepting the meeting minutes from last meeting. Everybody have a chance to view them? >> Make a motion to approve. >> Motion to approve. >> Okay.
>> You have a copy, I think. >> Thank you. >> You want to make All right. So all in favor >> uh correspondent and mail. So I did get a copy of the select board remote participation policy. I haven't viewed
it yet. I don't know if everybody's seen this. I'm sure you're aware of it since you guys have signed it. So I will uh review this but that's the only thing we have. I didn't see any of the mail except there was an invoice for vertex. I think it was like $471 or something.
So, I approved that. >> All right. Community center, want to provide an update on that? >> Of course. Um, so a few updates on that for you. Um, so first and foremost, the roof shingle and roof system warranty issue is ongoing. Um, Greenwood has been
in contact with Gail Associates who's reviewing the design drawings for a possible offging issue. Um, and then GAF, the shingle manufacturer, and Carlile, um, the underllayment manufacturer, have issued their warranties for their work. Um, and the
roofing retainage, um, that we're currently holding remains at $10,441. So, that that issue is ongoing and um, Steve will be able to provide more updates as they come through. Um,
>> also ProAV, so they've completed the um they've installed the display in the lobby at the senior center and provided all the information needed to uh the town clerk to create an account and operate the digital messaging system. So
at this point um integration of any messaging is in the town's court. Um so we should be all set on that on our end. And then final update for the senior center. So, Sver's one-year warranty on materials and workmanship expired on
September 5th. Um, except for any extended warranties. Um, SVER addressed all the items on that list with the exception of the roof shingles, which I mentioned is ongoing. Um, we are confirming that the I think there was a fob issue, so we're confirming with
Chris Honor that that was resolved and also confirming that the dishwasher issue has been fixed. Um, were there any questions on the senior center before I go into town hall? >> What was the off gasing on? We went real
quick. I didn't I didn't catch that. Was that on on what was the off casting on? >> Um, Ed, do you have specifics on what product that was? >> I think it might be the insulation. >> Okay. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. So, they're taking a look at all the different materials to see if there may be something relative to offging there, but we haven't heard anything back from them on that yet. >> But we got the warranty on the shingles and the underllayment. Is that what you said? >> Yes. Yep.
>> Okay. >> Yes. >> Nice to meet you. Senior director Beth was asking if there is a utilities if there are funds earmarked for kitchen utensils.
I don't know if that was resolved or if you're aware of it. If not, I can follow up directly with her later. >> Where do we stand with the leftover funds? Wasn't it put into an escrow? >> Yeah, the our attempt is to try to keep some of the money that we have left. Not
we don't have a number yet. The intent is to try to keep some of that available, put like a $100,000 into a an account that can deal with any of these issues that might come up in the near future or something we forgot about. We're going to bond this whole thing
anyway. So, debt exclusion override, so we might as well take advantage of it and use it. I know there's some members that said we should we shouldn't send it back, but why would we do that when we we may have other opportunities? So, if we could put 100 grand aside for that and then whatever else is left,
hopefully it will be more than that. We're thinking about maybe seeing if maybe we can use some of that money to the restoration of the uh bio section. So, if she were looking for something like that when everything's all said and done, perhaps we could come back and and take another look at it. But right now,
we're not quite ready to be there yet. So, she'd probably put that in writing and send it to us. give us an idea of what exactly she's looking for. >> Good call. You can let her know. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Utensils were not part of the construction project though. So that's
what he's referring to is if there's money left over. >> We kept some money because it was >> never heard Bob's point. If there's money left over surprise, I guess. >> Yeah. Because I think the one we kept was because of the seeding issue and fertilizing issue and
>> the sidewalk heaving couple of >> a couple different projects. >> Yeah. Kept it in case those have to be remedied. >> We got a credit for $130,000. And that credit we thought we would hang on to even though it's not cash. It's still a credit toward what we spent and
see what's what's left when the project is completed. >> Concrete out front. >> Concrete is part of it. Um >> that's a different pool money. >> Yes, it's a different pool. But on on the um senior community building, it was the receding of the property, the um
water um water gardens, the invitation where the water runs off and some of the other issues that were there. They gave us a credit for that, an invoice credit for all the community building.
Yeah, I think it was sidewalk, ceiling, lawn areas. >> Yep. Yeah. Is that it? Any other questions? >> All right, let's go on to town hall. >> All right, sounds good. Um, so a few updates for town hall. So, um the phase 2 and three landscaping has been
completed with the exception of some spot seating in thin areas which um Vertex communicated or we observed it on the 24th of this month and we communicated that to um M O Connor so they're going to take care of it. There were two plantings that were also
replaced this week. Um so once it once the grass is addressed everything should be all set there. Did we do we get any There was supposed to be uh three proposals to recede the lawn in the spring or maybe the fall. Did we ever get those? And I said DPW
was getting them. >> No, I believe he has them. I I haven't seen them. Jared was supposed to get us an estimate on doing that receding over at the community building. >> Actually, the tunnel >> and the tunnel. >> I did speak with Steve earlier today and
he mentioned that's still a go. So I I can follow back up to Jared on that. >> Okay. >> All right. The concrete plaza was the next element. >> Um yeah, so the Mo Connor and their
subcontractor TMC, they're nearly complete with the remedial work at the uh plaza. They have a few areas left, small areas that they need to address. I believe u most prominently the side the portion of the sidewalk leading to the side door of the select boardroom. Uh
but overall um that remedial work is almost complete. Um and then >> do you have a date? Do you have a date when it'll be complete? >> I think um Steve reached out to Emor about it just to find out. Um it it should be in the next couple of weeks, but I can definitely I'll write that
down to confirm with him. >> Okay. uh the one-year warranty. >> Yes. So, um similarly to the senior center, the uh MC Conor's one-year warranty expired on September 25th um except for any extended warranties and
they are continuing to address the one-year warranty list that was issued. Um again, I can check with Steve. I know they're working diligently through that. So, I can confirm um an exact or estimated time frame of when that should be completed as well. And you and do you know how many items are left? It was
like 47 before. >> I do not. I apologize. Off the top of my head. I'm not sure. But again, I can check with Steve and have him send an update on that. >> Yeah, if you can just send a bullet list with all these updates, that's fine. I can send you the minutes if you want. I don't You should have them, right? The meeting minutes.
>> Um I do not have or I don't have them in front of me. I was just going off a list of other updates that I have. Um Okay. >> But that was definitely on it. >> All right. I'll make sure Steve has them and then you guys can regroup and just all these bulleted items are going through.
>> Yeah, absolutely. >> And then just send us an update. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Oh, sorry. Go ahead. >> Um I was just I have a few more updates and I'm not sure if they um are covering the ones that you're looking for. Did you want me to go through them or do you want to share your
>> Let's go through these last few and then we if you have anything else we can add them. So we got the phase two work. You said that was complete. We're just waiting for Yeah. >> Yep. >> And then phase three, uh, there was some fire alarm, electrical work ongoing,
minor interior work to be completed, and final inspection was in a few weeks. I'm assuming that happened because last time we met was what, September? >> Yes, that should all be completed at this point. >> Okay. And then new business, we had um
that was a new item closed. See the electrical bill. You ever hear anything on that? >> I'm working. >> Been working on that. That fun little thing. >> So Jen Jen gave me all the information I
have in the folder. Okay. >> Um I'm going to take that to our state reps and ask for assistance on that. >> See if we can get it clear to them. If not, then we're going to have to take some kind of action. [Music] >> So the project started road
construction. We weren't we didn't even own the property yet. So, we've been someone stuck in a meeting. No one has any any record of any permit to install >> and ended up charging the town $31,000 was the amount.
>> That was around,000. However, >> they went back and figured out when we took over the property and the project, we owe about 14,000. But they held those bills for months and then suddenly it
was all there and then they tried it to a little fast one. They sent it to the uh attached the bill to the new community building and thought that would they slide it through that way and it didn't work either. Yes. So I'm going to help work with the state reps to see if we can get this
thing quit. As far as I'm concerned they can eat it. you know, they had a recent issue where, you know, people weren't getting their electric bills, right? They weren't getting them and suddenly they got this massive bill that they had to pay and and the state went after them
and pretty much wiped out a lot of that. So, I think we can fall into that same category, but I am I have reached out to say replet for meeting to sit down and talk to him about it. >> Thanks. >> In the meantime, I'm not paying >> goals from the past.
>> We're not paying. Yeah. All right. And then the remaining funds, this is you, Bob. Um, you're going to review with the new town manager how to manage track and use appropriately. This is the one we talked about before. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we just have to, first of all, we don't we have no idea
how much money is left. >> Yeah. I think we're still reconciling, right? [Music] >> Well, have you sat down with that select board and talked about those or no? Sounds like you haven't got that far yet. The money that's left over that
we're going to review with you, but I think you were coming on board and you haven't >> you should get together. >> Okay. And there are two parts of it there. There's money left over from the the debt exclusion remaining balance that you always have and then there's
money that was allocated as part of settlement um funds like for example this this lock out here which I would hope that our accountant could have an account >> yes necessary repairs as they come up that's what we
>> so the settlement money from both projects hopefully we can we need to retain that in case we ever need it make any repairs here community center room for example, we have a settlement for that as well. And then the the balance from everything
else, we just won't borrow, you know, we won't fund it, be able to subtract it from the final. >> Yeah. or we could take whatever of it if there's any money. I don't know if there is actually, >> but if there's any money left from the public to consider giving some of that
to the fire department for their project, the renovation project as part of the part of the whole deal, but we can talk about that later on. Right now, we don't have we have no idea how much money we have spoken today. He said we're close, whatever that means. I think it's just making sure there's no
residual invoices that you know come in kind of thing. All the subcontractors claims and that kind of stuff. GCS are all paid off. >> Okay, that was it from uh last business.
Did you have anything to add for new? >> Yeah. Um just a few items. So um similarly to the senior center prov also completed the um vis visual display installs in the main entry vestule and in the lobby. Um so and the town has
been provided with the information to be able to set up the messaging on those. So those are in place now. And then um one item that came up or has been ongoing, but I believe there were additional issues that surfaced this month um were was the AV system in the
crane room, the select board room. Um we were notified on the 12th um from the new town manager that there were a lot of issues with sound, not being able to hear anything through Zoom. Um a lot of minor issues
that we've been working through. And there's actually a meeting held this morning um with the town's consultant, Secure One. DBVW was there, Vert.Ex was there, uh Asentec, who designed the acoustical and AV systems. Um Norton
Cable TV and Systems Contracting who's our electrician for the project, as well as CCS New England, who's their sub subcontractor, who actually installed the AV system. So, everyone was on site in the same room. Um, and they were actually able to address those issues.
Um, so at this point everything should be resolved. I believe the only thing outstanding is the town manager asked for a price for wireless microphones which they're um they're working CCS is working on providing now. And also they
CCS is going to be providing um condensed instructions from their O andM manuals to provide to the town manager so that can be placed um on the dis like at the microphone in different areas just to give instruction on how to use the different components make it a
little more user friendly. Um so those are the only items that are in play there right now. Um, and then lastly, relative to that item, uh, the town has been holding invoice payments for DBVW
and a scent, um, for the additional AV and acoustical services that were completed in the crane room and the other conference rooms at town hall. Um, there were three alternate fee amounts that were included in the accepted original fee proposal from DBW, which
were build and partially paid on, but they weren't submitted as an official amendment. I know that Steve did talk to the town manager today and um had a discussion about it and I believe we're working toward a resolution on that. Um so I think we're in good shape there
unless there's anything you wanted to add on that Ed. >> No. Okay. Yeah. So I think >> No, I think that's right. >> Okay, perfect. Um >> just just one um hopefully everything will work in that conference room and
the other conference rooms. Um and we are looking for training in in addition to the easy reference card and who was provided the information on the the displays both in the senior center and in the the lobby. Just I just asked
because we don't have a a dedicated IT employee at the moment. >> Sure. Um, I can double check for you really quickly because I saw an email on this earlier to give you the exact name, but I think it was the town clerk and one other individual. Let me just see if
I can find that in my email. Um, oh, so the, um, the information was, I believe, provided to the town clerk town clerk's office and Jill Sepa as the administrator for the devices. >> For both locations.
>> Uh, yes, for both locations. >> See, sure. And sorry to keep asking questions here. And also display sign out front by the street. That would also be Joel Sappa. >> The display sign by the street. Is that what you said? >> Right.
>> I don't know. I can double check. I'm actually not entirely sure. >> That would have been by Sorama, right? >> Or they provided it >> for the actual messaging. I'm not sure. >> I think he's asking who in the town was trained on it, right? So they know how to use it,
>> right? Let me um >> Charlene >> Charlene, >> she's still here, right? That's right. Jen told me. >> Yeah. And I'm sorry I keep saying I'll check with Steve and get back to you. I know there's a couple items on that
list. Um but I'll I will check with him on that. >> Okay. Anything else? >> That is everything that I had for updates unless there are any other questions at all. >> Are we
are we done with their contracts? Are are there any supplemental invoices? Have we run out of um services based on the contract we currently have in place? Ed might know better. So, >> I'm going from memory, but I think that
last invoice may have been it. >> Good occupancy. Warranties expired. >> Yeah. Rises on the call. Good to see you again. I >> think at this point >> whenever you need >> I think the only thing that was was this
walkway and the roof are like the two big items >> and that's where the settlements come into place. Yeah. So, they're done. movement in front of the walkway at the >> stadium. DPW is going to take care of that. >> Okay, I guess we're done. Anybody else
have any questions? >> I don't know if you noticed in this evening, but we had those white benches, if that's what you want to call them, installed >> outside. And I just want to get a consensus. Um maybe without objection
I'll remove those and and u salvage them unless we think they're a good idea to keep there. >> He's noticing to be honest with you. >> We had a conversation with a couple folks on about how ungodly ugly they are
in the first time we get a good heavy frost. I'm guessing they're probably going to crack and brand and break up. So, um I don't know what what kind of money we spent on those, but uh yeah, I think we could come up with some very nice benches that would complement this
building better than those. >> Are they bolted down? >> They're very easily removable. >> Are they bolted or >> hopefully they don't have water in them? >> They're bolted to the slab. >> I'm afraid of them. >> Bolt will rust and then bleed.
I said give them to the give them to the to the elementary school and let them use it for uh >> if you want to repurpose them will be >> I'm not quite sure what you can use to practice >> little pumpkins at him.
Are we all done with you? Is that what we're trying to say? I think so. >> Well, it was good working with you. >> Thank you, Ray. >> You guys as well. >> Tell everybody Mike at the office. It was a pleasure. >> Yeah. You use us, feel free to use us as a reference. Both of you.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> And I'll send the minutes so you can send me an update when you get a chance because this meeting has been pretty busy. So, you can give me a bullet list of some of the updates so I can catch up that would be great. >> Okay. I guess you guys are relieved.
Good night everybody. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> You >> next on the agenda is the middle school roof project. >> Yes. >> I believe the school probably has to open up their meetings. We probably should have let them do that at the
beginning. So whoever is >> Yeah, >> there are three out of the five here. So >> Okay. You want to post it, right? >> Not posted. No question. Forget about that. Never mind.
Whoops. >> So, I would like to thanks >> just the way I'd like us to. >> Thank you everyone for um putting us into tonight um their agenda. I um appreciate your time and your
willingness to have this conversation with us. Um, I want to also apologize for not coming here to see you previously. I take full responsibility for the misunderstanding. Um, >> just intervene for a second here.
>> Nobody's fault in this room. >> Right. >> In my opinion, someone else is responsible for this mess up and and you know, we have a lot of catching up to do. Me personally, I think this has to get done as soon as we can get it done. But I I I don't want
anyone in this room taking responsibility for it because we were not directed properly by our prior administration and they gave us the uh guidance they should have given us. So here we are trying to catch up. We all figured this out at the very end of it.
I asked for for guidelines on what the committee is all about. Whoops. What are we doing here? You know what I mean? So I think I think you you you don't need to apologize. I think it's something that uh has happened. We need to move on and let's figure this thing out and get it done as we can.
>> Thank you. >> Yep. >> Um so I I have some slides for you all here tonight. Um I wanted to walk through a little bit of the history of the Norton Middle School. Um I'm sure many of us are familiar with the issues
that have kind of plagued this building since the very beginning. Um, but I have a little bit of timeline that I'm going to walk you through and then we'll talk about the projects moving forward. So, um, Norton Middle School began construction in 1997. And, um, in August
of 1998, the 15-year warranty began on the Firestone um, DPDM roof, which is the um, rubber roofing. Everybody all set? >> That's how this >> Oh, I I changed a couple things, but you know. Okay, the
>> majority of us are pretty accurate. >> September 9th of 1998, the Norton Middle School uh opened their doors for the very first time um to our students and >> sixth grade. >> Okay, so Peter was there. Um and we had
issues on that day one when it came to issues. Um so we have a lot of documentation from the fall of 1998 um that showed that really since the day it was first occupied. There were reports of water leakage um throughout the building the primary areas have always
been um the rotunda um which is the round beautiful you know that you see from the road >> the middle roof. Yes, the cafeteria and then also um over the administrative offices. Those were immediately um part of the part of the problem. Um in
January of 1999, the contractor, our general contractor, which was Westcot, um began immediate steps to stop leaking uh making sure they were clocking areas of concern. Um and they also ordered a water leakage investigation that was
completed by Simpson, Guffs, and Wever. And what this investigation found in January of 1999 was that there was improperly installed through wall flashing um that in the masonry walls.
So the way that the flashing was installed is it was not um down as far as it should have been. And there was also um masonry um behind the brick itself. So where there should not
have been um like the cocking >> so okay so so what happened was what happened was the flashing wasn't installed properly >> correct >> against the brick and it was just leaking like a s >> and they had to go back and they had to make the repair
>> because the flashing wasn't extended properly. >> Thank you. Um, also there was an ineffective backup waterproofing system. Um, and you know, in the cavity itself. So, spring of 99, we haven't even made it through a whole school yet here yet.
They were already working with um, representative from the schools, Westcot Construction. We actually had um, prior to like having an owner project manager, we had a Norton clerk at the works uh, that oversaw saw the entire project and they started working on all of these
repairs as early as uh, 1999. Um at that same time the town decided to hold funds back from the general contractor Westcot. Um and unfortunately that had an impact on our warranty itself. So they were uh firestone said
that the warranty would not be fully executed until they received all of their payments. um December of 999 they did a followup to the initial report where they took a look at um what repairs have been done so far and also
try to um kind of you know hold people responsible for the actual work that was done um improperly. So there were issues with the masonry itself. There were issues with the roofing, the drywall, the windows. And they found that the subcontractors, the general contractors,
and the architect were all responsible for different aspects of these challenges at Normal. Um, in September of 2001, we had another uh memo from Simpson Gumperts and Eager noting that there were still items that
needed to be repaired that were not done appropriately within that first um the first findings. Uh those included replacement of copper flashing, uh sealant in a lot of the control joints and a modification of the steel plates in the brick itself. Um
at that same time around 2003 the town began involved in a lawsuit between uh Westcot Construction Corporation and Marshall Roofing um because of payments that were held back um and the court settled in favor of Marshall and we as a
community pay $60,000 for the remaining payments for the roof itself. Um we had different contractors come in to do some of these repairs. Some of the work was done by uh Atlas Roofing uh at that same time in uh 2006. I apologize, but you
fix that. Well, 2006, not 2026. Hasn't gotten there yet. Um Firestone basically said that the warranty that exists is only applicable to number one, the actual installation of the roof itself or any work that they themselves or
their um you know, >> certified installers. >> Thank you. certified installers came and did. So the work that we have been doing as a community was no longer covered under the warranty itself. Um which is is a big challenge. And then the third
page um we had an infotend consultant come out in October of 2006 noting the status of the repairs. There were still a lot of things that needed to be done. The town put forward a warrant for design services um to study and prep a bay for repairs in January of 2007.
um they completed the design the schematic design for plastic and roof repairs and from May of August of '07 we had um waterproofing completed at Norton Middle School by Chapman water um although you know you have your one
contractor they at 2008 they said don't call us we'll call you and they're never going to call us again um so they did no Marshall Rupy no longer wanted to be called um and so we had to work with Firestone to find us another roofing provider that they would allow. We do
the work and and we came out warrants. Um in 2017, we also um patched a portion of the metal loop over the cafeteria um to stop police. From 2001 to 2013 when our warranty was
finally um up with the fire removing, we have anywhere from six to maybe 18 repair requests a year. um basically going through saying, "Hey, this area is leaking, putting out to Firestone, having them come out, doing the warranty
work." Um but as you can see, it has just been one issue after the next since the day that this building opened. And um through the Massachusetts School Building Authority, we were not eligible
for a roof project until it was 25 years old. Um so we are finally there. Um we as as you may or may not know during COVID the MSBA actually shut down their um reimbursement and project process
because they were so backlogged with projects that they needed a little bit of time to catch up. This has been the first year this cycle has been the first year that number one were eligible and that they have the um accelerated repair um projects up and running. So we are
very fortunate to have been selected um to participate in the um the accelerator care project and um as you know we we passed the first question at town meeting in terms of the schematic design. So I have a few pictures for all
of you here tonight to show you kind of the the current status of our roof. Um and I also want to extend an invitation to anyone on the permanent program committee um to come by Norton Middle School. I would be more than happy to um show you some of the issues that we're
having within the school building. A lot of them are within our learning spaces. So these top two pictures um on that first page of this is in one of our sixth grade math classes. So the day that I took these photos, the students are taking a math test and we've got this giant barrel right next to one of
them where it's just dripping um and super distracting distracting and not great for learning. Um, you can see that the purple picture on the bottom, that's our office. Um, we recently did air quality testing in Norton Middle School in some of our really concerning areas.
Um, and everything came back fine except the one small area. Um, there is a a small vestibule um where our students come in and out on the bus every day. And inside the vestibule itself, we hit force of mold.
Um, but not within the actual foyer itself. So, um, we were very fortunate. Wade, our director of facilities was able to call Ryan Day. They came out, they remediated that area and we have since retested and it's not um within
>> where was it above the ceiling. stick one. >> So, and it's, you know, when you have this much water coming into a space, we have to do that air quality testing probably more often than you do other places. Um, on the second page of
photographs, you can see um the far left, that's our rotunda. It's that paint is just chipping away. Um, it's really interesting when you can actually see it from the outside. Um, a lot of peeling paint. We have the cafeteria roof that is is is just deteriorating.
That you can actually see both from the inside and from the outside. That is um one of our biggest challenges right now, that cafeteria roof. And then I have a few photos of some of our outside here. Um as you can see that there's the
teriated sealant and step lofting. We've got some areas where um sprews went completely through the rubber um and so it's open conditioning itself um right around the rotunda. It it the way that
it's set up is it it really looks like the roof is so soft now the water is kind of just pulling around that circle um and creating a huge amount of issues. So um we have been working with Tai and
Bond um for our um strategic schematic design process and as part of that work they did an infrared roof moist survey. Um so using thermal imaging to identify where that trap moisture is. Um, so as you can see on the next page, all of the
areas that are in red um on the roof are areas that um it's saturated down to and through the insulation. >> Yes. All the way down to the deck. Yes. Thank you. And so um all of those areas
need to absolutely be replaced. So that's it's about 7,100 square ft, which is roughly about 9.4% of the rubber roofing. Um and so when they see that
anything below 25% of um you know what information is deemed to be a good candidate for restoration. Um, so that is the biggest conversation I think that we're having is, you know, do we do we
do a restoration or do we do a full replacement? And so, um, in the restoration, what they would do is they would focus just on those saturated areas. They would take the roof down to the deck, replace the insulation, etc. Then once those areas have been
remediated, they would do a full pour of the EPDM. So, previously they would lay it out in in sheets. They would roll it out. Now, um the way that it works is it's much it's it's um similar to >> an epoxy floor. >> Yes.
>> It's like an it's a liquid. >> I was thinking like like the concrete and you kind of Yeah. >> Yes. But so so basically they would they would do a pore and then that would be a full replacement of the metal version itself. There is no rust. Yeah. >> You can't fix it. Um, versus a replacement, the entire
roof comes off all the way down to the deck. They would replace all of the ice and water barrier, the insulation, the coverboard, and then they would do their pool. Um, this requires additional insulation because um, building code now
versus building code in 1998. Um, there is a higher component of insulation. Um, and then what that what we would need to do there is we would need to raise the through wall flashing and and potentially in some cases some of the window sills so that way there's enough
clearance between the insulation itself and um the the brick and the flashing. Um so we've had a lot of conversations about these components and I think that um we found the report from Simpson Gump
Gumperts and Figer after this bottle has kind of been moving a little bit and um ironically we found two giant boxes um labeled Norton Middle School full roof and they were only slightly water damaged when we took everything out. So,
we were able to go through and um really get down to the nitty-gritty and read this report and then also share it with a schematic design um proof. And third option that we have too is that we could do more of a hybrid. You could go in, we could replace the areas that are
wet. We would go in and replace all of the through wall flashing and all of those components. So that way we would be pulling all of those things out and then pouring the rest. Um, I think it from my perspective as someone who is
not a contractor, is not um, someone who was super familiar with with building, um, I'm very nervous about restoration because of all of the issues that we've had since the very beginning
when it comes to the flashing and um, some of the main streets that we have had times what we want as a community to spend a huge amount of money and just leave those components there untouched and just continue to have the same issue
over what will happen is everyone will be pointing the finger at us that we didn't do it that I will discuss. if I believe in my opinion, I think the replacement is necessary because they got to get in there and find out what was done wrong
to perform. In order to do that, they got to rip it out, >> see what's wrong with it. We have to have enough money in there so we don't have a lot of change orders as we're going to make sure that that is done rebuilt properly. It's more of a rebuilt in my opinion than a replacement. And I
think it has to be done in a manner that as you say, I'm not going to be back here saying, "Here we go with the ice again." >> Yeah, >> that rotunda, if there was a way to take that thing off, that would be the end. That would be the >> the best thing we could do. But it is part of the building, so we got to figure it out.
>> It's an absolutely beautiful school. >> And for anyone who's, you know, even driving by it on the road, it's an absolutely beautiful school, but it was it was really over here. there are so many different levels of roofing that um
need to be replaced. So it all of that adds legal costs and all of for every area that there are is a new section is the potential to have have issues and so ultimately um it absolutely needs to be replaced. I think anyone that we bring
up there um once you see the condition that the roof is in itself um everyone agrees it it has to be done. So um what we have asked uh tie-in bond to do and really it's part of the MSBA um contract
is to also give us a schematic design for full replacement. Um while roof restoration has been very common um in you know businesses and um you know the rest of the world in municipal buildings
it's very new um typically grants um community improvement grant for MSBA they did not cover restoration so this is the first time that they're really doing it um and so both I think the OPMs that have worked with MSBA and the
schematic design firms are used to providing one resolution an issue and they really need to provide us with feel all of the information that that we need. Um so they are currently working on that. um they were looking to charge
us an extra $20,000 to do the next um phase of the diseatic design and we basically said we're not paying it and we we didn't have the appropriate information to be able to make the right decision and this is what you're being tasked to do through the NSBA and
they'll figure it out. >> Before we get too too too much into the project, >> yeah, >> as a developer, we should be sitting down and talking to them. >> Oh, absolutely. should be having some conversation with them saying why are you doing it this way because we don't what we don't want them to do is do it
then come back and say well now you owe some some more money >> oh yes >> think you want these changes done >> so I think the the sooner we can get them in and have a conversation the better and we have to get this thing clear up and keep in mind that these designers and companies that are doing these projects it's all about making
money so the more money it cost the more money they make so we have to we have to look into that to see if I'm making any shortcuts, but there may be alternative designs that we can look at that might make more sense. >> And I think to your point, Mr. Campbell,
um the owner's project manager is supposed to work for the Northern Public Schools. And so the conversation I had with them yesterday was like, I understand that like when you're done with our group project, you're going to move on and you're probably going to do other projects, other projects with
these same design firms, and I understand that you have that relationship, >> but your role as the OPM is to work for and advocate for Norman public schools, and that's the expectation. Um, so those are some conversations that we've had. Um, I do want to talk a little bit about
the financials because you know this is the money. This is the quote or you know the um >> estimate. >> Thank you. >> Get nervous. It's okay. >> Who is the OPM?
>> The OPM is James Re and he is from Next Level OPM. Um and I'm more than happy to have him come and present to um the planning um and then tie in is our
hired campaign. >> No. So they're they're given to you by the MSBA. You do not have an option in terms. >> Yes. Is that just for the accelerator roof reamp or >> So the way that it worked with MSBA is
that they have a number of um people that are already on that state bid list. They assign you the OPM and then the OPM goes out and does the process for design. >> That's very interesting. >> We select for the high school project we
went through the selection process and selected a role in but maybe this accelerated repair different. They might be they might be on call contracts or something >> program. Did I understand that it's an alternate year thing to give them time in between? Yeah. So if you don't get it
this year, you have to wait two years. >> Yeah. >> And I also want to say that I believe that there was an adjustment um in between from when the high school was done to now. um there was some sort of change or overhaul that happened with the MSBA and how they were conducting um
their their processes in entering into their programs for things. There was an overhaul that happened um I want to say maybe seven or eight years ago. Well, we had to present him to the MSBA game after we made the selection. But
I'm guessing this is is a special specialized project with a probably a faster return with these restoration projects. So they probably >> to avoid every town from going through the selection process. Well, yeah, that's probably why they have all previous
town meeting on June 6th, 2011. I was there and then and then the government 339 was there for the where the renew opening back in 2014. >> Your your designer um how about how
about them? How were they chosen? >> Same way >> the open >> the bid process for >> Yes. But are you are you concerned that there's too tight of a relationship there? >> No, I we're good. I actually really um
like the um people that we're working with from Tai and Bond. I think they've been very responsive to our requests and the work that they need to um I don't have any >> I I did watch one of your meetings when they were both presenting together.
>> I wasn't very impressed but >> Yeah. No, we'll do anything. >> Okay. >> But you're okay with saying it to them? I mean you don't have the option of European but I can get it >> actually the same way. >> Well I think I think at this point
>> rather than miss our window I think we we deal with the hand we have >> stick with the people we have and I think what we need to make a decision on which option we want to go through and move forward. [Music] >> I don't know about you guys. I'm a fan of full replacement. I don't want to
cutting corners, >> but I think the sooner we can get them in the better because again, we need to look at some of what they're >> proposing. I mean, just I've read some of the reports that that you have out there that you someone gave me a copy of the
whole the whole project. I had a chance to look at it. It's just I'm not a roofer. Don't pretend to be. >> Me, >> but there are some things that just red flag that I'd like to have clarification. >> I think I need a detailed. We haven't seen any drawings. We don't have the scope of work. All we have is an
estimate. >> And so, um, they're in the process of working on full replacement, um, to include all of those items along with another estimate. Um, I do want us to have a little bit of
conversation in terms of of the dollar amount. So, okay. The way that it works is that they give you the full scheatic design cost with built-in consencies. Um, and typically when you go out to bid, it
comes in about 70% of that design cost where you see the bids fall. Um so if we are using the um number that we had from the MS from the um high-end bond when it
came to the actual um restoration was $9.9 million 75 70% of that is about 6.9 and the MSBA would reimburse 55.63%. which if that was the number that we
were looking at, the cost to the town of Norton is 3,91,831. So, we hear a lot of conversation about a $10 million roof. It's not going to cost the town $10 million, but I think that's really important for us to be sure that we're sharing that information. So, the cost to us would be
about >> there's a lot of rumor mills in town. >> Yes. And social media doesn't have any Um so this is the restoration component. Uh we are working with them to get the
placement. So there you have it was like a million and a half more. Right. It wasn't a lot more [Music] what they're thinking. >> Concern not concerned but in my head what I want to understand is if you go
down to the deck and you have to replace the deck what happens underneath the deck? And the reason I say that is this ceiling's attached to the deck. The HVAC is attached to the deck, light fixtures, all kinds of stuff. So if you have to remove sections of the deck, there's potentially parts of the classroom that
have to go down with it. So we want to make sure that's included in the price. The other thing it has to be >> interior repairs, you know, you're going to have them. You found mold. Yeah. >> You know, where else are we going to find it? So we shouldn't be surprised by that. We should be upfront and say, "Look, when you when you're tearing
everything apart, you find something, we got to fix it." >> And the reason we want to be tight is you only have 44 days. That's what the gentleman said, right? 44 days to do a summer roof. You can't >> That's That's the summer vacation. Bang. >> Correct. Yeah. That's why it's
expensive. If we're not going to We have work that we still need to do here. We have to get the town to vote it through. >> There has to be a conversation about how we're going to pay for this as a community. Is it going to come out of our regular budget? Are we going for a
debt exclusion? >> If we're going for a debt exclusion, then we're going like that's a town meeting and a ballot. Yeah. >> So, we've had conversations, you know, amongst our team that we have concerns
about going out for a contractor at the Springtown meeting. Like, reputable people are not going to be available. >> So, if that's a big component that we need to make um is done. In the meantime, we would need to potentially
do some work this year to get us to summer of 27. Yeah, >> of course you want April 11. It's a couple weeks early than we normally have it. So, you should have something working with a select board
have something on that ballot to uh whatever general amount we feel we're going to need to do the we're never going to we're never ever going to be able to pay for this under the uh the variable funds. We're just not going to have it. So, it has to be a debt exclusion. And then a month later as I
told Tommy. So between that the two of them we can we can expedate expedite this a bit. Maybe still not for 26 but maybe as you say for 27 >> but also we have to get the extension with the MSBA too. >> Yes. And
>> we'll miss that window. >> Any issue with that? Okay. I've spoken with them every couple days since we applied for the extension is with their um senior leadership team right now. Um so that is in process and they do not
see any issues with that. So as I mentioned we've requested for the extension. We've requested a full replacement to sign and bonds. Um, we've had conversations with both time on about looking at the copa making the metal versus
>> asphalt shingles. Um, if we wanted to do a phase approach, if we said, "Okay, we're going to do this section of the roof in this year. We're going to do this section of the roof and another year." >> It's going to cost you a lot more, but you've also moved the MFBA.
And you know, if we go out and bid this project independently, you al you might get a lower bid, but you're also going to 55. So I know you have a couple questions. >> Is the reimbursement rate the same as
restoration or replacement? >> Yes, sorry. >> It has. So explain the the 70% version there from the schematic design. >> They they when they go the schematic estimate is always higher than what your bids will actually be saying it's
roughly 70% of what it's really going to cost. >> So you get the state to commit to >> you fluff it so they'll give you more. Yeah. >> Does it all add up to 30%.
>> So when they're when they go out to bid um they're saying that this looks like this is the estimate that we have. It's that 9.9. Um but then of course you have multiple roofing companies or multiple contractors that are going to look at the project themselves and you know
they're always looking to be able to come in and and get the lowest bid to be able to to run this project. Um it's unfortunately it's a little bit of a political >> call a state here. Right. So they when they
go through this process what they're doing is they are committing the MSBA to the highest amount possible. So that way if there were contingencies, we would have them locked in at that
highest reimburseable. So going in and saying, "Okay, 9.9, that means that 5.27 million is what the MSBA is on the on the hook for." So if it comes in, you
know, 30% lower, so you try to it's a little and I hate to say this because it feels kind of dirty, like it's a little bit of a game be able to get that. >> I guess my concern is When they complete the schematic design for the full replacement, are they going to come back with revised numbers?
>> Yes. >> Yes. Absolutely. We'll talk about that. >> But there are other contingencies like Bobtock only going to move the alien Ryan that may not be included in the design. So I mean that 3 million 91,000 could be
5 million. No yet. And so those components of asbestous mutation, we know we're not going to come up against that issue because the building was built in 1997 and therefore and we weren't using that as a construction material. >> Sure. >> Um you also have to build in um funds
for um ensuring that the building itself is solar ready. >> For anyone who is familiar with the Norton Middle School roof, you know that we will never ever ever put solar panels on that roof again. It has been nothing but a problem since the very beginning. Plus, we have a carport in every single
one of our schools that provides solar. Um, so we're not going to be putting solar panels up on the roof. We're going to be moving on and maybe that. So, those funds are there and when they're built into the cost, you can use those for other things.
>> We'll see that detail when they're complet. >> Yeah. Great. Is anyone looking at what exists on that roof as spot? We're talking about the interior issues that might arise. What about the external issues that could arise like how old are the HVAC systems and you know some of
the some of the stacks that they've got up there and all that. I mean is that something that they're looking at or is that something we >> Well, you brought something up in your presentation at the library. I heard somebody talk about something >> we weren't sure of some of the dates because they weren't right. Right.
>> Yeah. the HVAC stuff was included. >> Yeah, but we weren't sure when when some of those were actually installed or >> as well in in the Rubin and the brick work to see kind of to try to get behind >> some of those areas and see what's actually under there.
>> Investigation work. >> I'm sorry. >> Investigation. >> Exactly. And but we all know that um just because you did investigation work in in certain area that doesn't all you're not getting the full picture until you really pull it up. So um I think that's why it's really important
number one to have that contingency built in and also to um ensure that the money the dollar amount that we are having approved is the higher amount. So, yep.
>> If you get in there and you have issues, um, one of the examples that, you know, Wade and I have been talking about is that bus entrance, um, you can actually see there's these two huge, huge windows at the top of that brick structure. And all around them, you can actually see
that the clocking is really and like window filled down below. There's a huge amount of um, rock. So we replace those two windows. That wouldn't be a part of what MSB MSBA would
reimburse, but that may be a part of what we would need to do as a community in order to make sure that side of the building. >> I think you see where you stand. >> I guess what I was trying to say earlier before if we're doing it December 27th
before then if we got an issue on that roof, it need to be fixed. once we put the roof on. We don't want anyone up there >> monkeying around or doing anything that necessary. He should make sure everything's done right at all. >> So, Le has been um getting some quotes
as well um for potentially a little bit of um remediation this winter or you know, as soon as we can possibly get it done um in order to hold us until this until the summer of 2027. It's probably going to cost us$25 to
$30,000 to ensure that we don't have any really big issues. Um, >> so as of now, >> one of the big issues with roofs is installation, especially with schools, is it go so fast and if it's too hot, adhesives don't work very good over 90
degrees. They don't work very good under 40 degrees. So you see the conundrum. I used to do a lot of roofs for Walmarts. You can imagine Walmart's got some of the biggest roofs you've ever seen. Yeah. And 250,000 square foot, you know, five times this size. And what they used
to hire is what's called a registered roof observer. And they're basically a special inspector. I highly recommend one because they sit there all all day long and watch these guys put the roof down. No offense to any clerk, but they're not qualified. You know, they walk around a little bit and then that's
it. And that's how those mistakes happen. They're not a lot of money, but I highly recommend and they give you a report. I can give you examples of one. There not a lot of them around. Um, I can give you some more information on that, but it's part of special inspections, which I used to do. So, I
highly recommend it. It's not a lot of money. Even if it's 20, 30 grand, it's worth carrying because it's another layer of quality assurance and risk management. I mean, because we're going to do this once, let's do it right. any repair like the sophets and stuff
>> right even when you mentioned windows some of the HPS unit that blond mentioned gone you want to get out that you don't you don't want We would be going back up the reveal later. >> What we could do obviously this would be
with you know school committee and science committee and everything else is we could say okay this is our number as a community for the roofing project itself and then we add on to that. So you add
$100,000 $200,000 for the window those types of things. So you have it and it's a a full project where um I mean obviously we have >> painters to work with things like that. Um >> there would be things that we would need
to go out for and there are other things that we are contracts that we have. >> Exactly. >> It's important to understand what's eligible to for the MSBA working because with new construction or even renovations um athletic fields and and floors gym floors are not eligible.
>> Yeah. So, but in this case, some of these things we're talking about, the incentives may be eligible. So, the OPM designer need to make sure they package it all together in the bid and get free approval from the MSP. >> Yes. And the conversations that we've had, like for example, those windows
that I shared with you, um, because it is a an accelerated roof project, anything that does not touch the roof itself, so the windows, anything interior is not included. But even beyond the MSBA project, if you
had to add for reimbursement purposes, you had to stick to certain guidelines, but then you wanted to add say Windows softs and that kind of stuff that would not fall under that program. Then you say, okay, well, we need $9.9 million under the SDA
program, but we're also going to need another $200,000 when we borrow this money under the debt exposure. >> Yeah. solo encompassing into one one number. We don't want to have to come back and try to raise that money later on. >> I agree. I think that would probably be the best way to do it. And once we have
the number that we need to ask for, then we have a conversation um and say what what do we think we would need to >> be lucky with the bids for the the core project. You want to make sure that these language in the article and the the uh the ballot vote as well is
generic enough where it can include things like we're talking about right now. Yes, >> HBAC windows. >> Then even if they're not reimburseable, we got to make sure we can spend the money that's approved for those other things if we have it. >> Absolutely.
>> What's the schedule going forward? >> Yeah. When do you expect the um the full repair >> like schematic >> design or replace? And so, um, what we can do is if you let us know, um, some dates that work for
you, I can have them and present to you, >> right? >> Yeah, >> I have some questions. Mention like the pitch roof instead of playing metal roof, >> why would we not go with a shingle as well?
>> I mean, that kind of stuff. Just they have a reason why you can't >> reason. And so that was, you know, we asked the same question after our presentation at a few weeks ago. Um it was metal, so they chose to do metal again, but there's no reason we can't do asphalt. So they're looking at all of
those options. >> You know what? It didn't work the first time. Let's try to look at different options a second. >> And it certainly didn't work. And it's interesting because my question on the warranty for the metal roof was that um and they're saying the metal roof should
come with 50 warrant. Oh, weird. No. You know what? >> Sometimes it's the finish >> because I know you're going to sell your house before >> transferable. My opinion, warranties don't mean a thumb. The company you're working with
five years from now is be a different company. And I just I just I'm not I'm not I want to do it right the first time, but if I don't think they're ever going to come back on >> and then I want, you know, figure. >> So, >> so let's make sure we do it right. >> We haven't scheduled our next meeting,
but I it's on the 24th, which is the week of Thanksgiving. >> Could we get something the week before? Maybe by the 17th, so at least we have something we can talk about the 24th. >> We'll see what we'll see what we're able to get. Would you like them to meet with
you the week of >> come in the 24th? >> Yeah, just come in and explain it all. That's all. Just so we have a comfort level. You think we should take a position on which preference we >> Yeah, we can take a vote. >> We should do >> in terms of the full depth versus the
non full Yeah. >> the band-aid, whatever you want to call it. The >> band. >> Well, let's wait to listen to them for Yeah. But they're already doing the schematic on full depth repair, right? >> Yeah. So, I don't think this Oh, >> no. I I agree.
I think the only thing we can vote on is once we see those, if there's any alternates we think we may want to include, if it's not already included, >> my opinion is if you're trying to do a restoration project, you're not going to get it all. You don't know what's there. you know, why not go with a total, you
know, rebuild >> so we can find out what's there, what was done wrong the first time and fix it, >> you know, and try to do it the right way because it >> I completely agree and I I'm for the replace full replacement as well, but we we're only >> we're only into this one hour this
committee and I don't want to be hasty and >> you know just let's wait till the next meeting and then we can >> take a while for me to talk about >> same here. I don't intend to myself either. I mean, as we all know, you can't have allowances in public bid. So, you have to have exact quantities.
You can have unit prices, but you have to pre have a quantity first, but we can have those built in, too. If we think when you're doing your step flashing, if more masonry is crumbling, we have a unit price to repair. So, it accelerates things, you know, stuff like that. >> So, did the school committee take a
formal vote on which auction we would prefer replacement versus? >> We were in the same boat. >> Okay. I mean, I think to do it, right? For the amount of money, it's I think you said it was around a million and a half. And if we're only paying 45% of that, what's that? It's like 800,000 or something.
It's worth the even if it's a million, it's worth it. >> And you're going to reinsulate that roof, too. So, you're going to have some energy. >> Yeah, exactly. They might be able to insulate underneath, too. Who knows? They can do some spray foam in some areas. Maybe thickness doesn't get big. I don't know. Stretch code.
So you can't insulate money. Okay. The energy codes are 30. You could have a double 2.6 insulation. >> Let me interrupt. Chair just I'm going to let you finish talking. Does you guys have a meeting to go to? You
>> I have two quick questions. one, do we have to wait until uh town election and town meeting to get a vote or can we do a special town meeting and special election? >> Yes, we can. I lost money, but we ask you can if if the school
>> you can vote first and then go to meeting after, right? But we can do both. >> What I'm what I'm getting at is let's just say the deadline to do that and get it all squared away is February and we can have it done for the summer. Mhm. Like >> that might be worth the $10,000 for the
election to do it that. You know what I'm saying? Um and then I think that was a but whatever. I'll figure it out later. >> Yes. The select board can call for a special uh town meeting, a special election. >> Yeah, because I think the clock's
ticking, >> right? >> It would be advantageous to take advantage of it. >> Thank you. So >> did walk around the other day >> and the municipal
>> a couple things and I took a bunch of photos highly absolutely not dry after look at some of these sections of the roof. They did a thermal scan on the
roof. The high points aren't marked off and then you look and you see a drain. I actually took a photo and did a low point is the drain. Water runs down the hill. So, you know, water is traveling to that drain and decking
decking. So, the thermal scan doesn't always show um moisture under that section of roof, but you can see where the moist you can see where they did mark off. Um, you know, the section that's saturated,
>> but the water is still traveling under >> runs the pan. >> Screw hole. Think it's right above you. It's not >> falls the pan. >> Just cutting out the wet insulation. Placing the wet insulation makes still
got moisture that you're trapping it. part of the warranty saying get the right companies certified. >> You're going to get a 20 warranty. I'm certified by a 20 manufacturer warranty
on that bus tomorrow on Mando will honor that. If it's something we've screwed up and fails, we'll find another John Manville contract with a command. So, I'm not sure what he was in this
roof, but when it does go out to bid only three manufacturers, I recommend John the best manufacturers. You also go the TPO route, which is slightly more, but more durable roof, membranes, a little more durable, welded
seams, not root seams. and you know over time the seams fail. >> Patch is easier too. You just heat it up, right? Heat it up. >> The heat walls. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, I think some wood
contractor is you have to go back to that contractor. You can't let somebody else up on that roof. The warranty. Anyone back anyone else is up on the roof anymore, you've got it. Y as far as you know cold weather he's
said you know we fall down it does >> if it's rated for it >> can do cold weather applications >> if it's rated for >> it's just it can be done but like I said
we You don't want somebody to miss a step happens. >> Some of the other things I saw there agreed significantly cheaper. >> I'm not looking for cheaper. I just ch
What's the substrate? Is it plywood? >> Yeah, if it's plywood. Wow. Second is are they leaking or they just because the kind of finish came off.
>> Usually the paint fails. >> Yeah. >> Insulation. So why you got all these fruit pops looks of it? You got lead coated copper here. that and from here's what I did. The one thing was the wall flashes. I didn't
know if they wall there's a difference between when you build a building and you do a through wall flashing and then do a stock cut flashing through the wall flashing much more. So I I kind of printed this for you guys the difference.
>> It goes in and up, right? It goes in through the brick up the wall and then that brick sits on the >> other described it. >> They do a hook strip >> and and then the counter flashing after we rubber up the counter flashing snaps into the hook strip. >> Yep.
>> Um I actually think you do have through wall flashing if you look at the parts of the through wall flashing the hook strip. So, I'm not sure that you got um I'm not sure that the through wall flashings are a major issue.
>> Um could also be you got a porous brick hasn't been sealed in the last 27 years. >> You know, anybody knows if you spray a little mist on some old brick, it'll absorb it like a sponge. You throw a seal coat on it and you seal it then.
So, a lot of times old chimneys will absorb moisture. you know, we'll put branding lead on and we'll we'll point them and the brick still absorbs moisture. Once that moisture is in the brick in the walls, that's why they put these a lot of times they put these
in. See? >> That allows for any moisture that gets in the brick to sweep out of the walls. >> It works the other way too, right? Moisture coming out. Let me see the effort. >> You guys have a meeting in here? You have a good time.
>> Some of the other a lot of the patches are failing patchwork for you guys, but they don't do justice. This is a bunch of roof cement that they're putting on root cement on EDM.
Break down membrane. It's bubble up. This whole curb right here loaded through cement. See this look that's brush right there. We put a no no on that. We don't do that.
>> So you make sure that >> just all you know and somebody's putting cocking on screw pops came through the roof. They put clear silicone on a lot of your target patches are failing.
There's a hole in your roof. Then uh all your seams are failing just because of age. One thing I noticed which I was happy to see the decking is not rusted in the area of the softening. A lot of times when you get saturation decking it's sitting there for 25 years
you get a lot of rust replacing the metal deck would cost you a lot more. So, it's good that decking looks like it's in solid shape. Area that's marked off by the thermal scheme
flash and breaking down. I just took a whole bunch of photos. Um, as far as doing repairs on the roof just for up there that guy up there anymore 27, right?
>> So, >> when you when you do these patchwork, you're supposed to clean a membrane membrane plant. have some why not do a membrane cleaner and you can tell that on some of the fresh patches because when we do the membrane cleaner clean nice and pretty
shiny rubber and pour a patch on I see so I see some patches up there I don't see the membrane if you don't clean the membrane and then you can stick it typically when we go around and we do you know I did serial hospital years ago and we just same thing we do kind of
maintenance up there they don't so So I had a couple done go around rag to just clean a bunch of patches and then send my guys when I patch. So that's the way we do the patchwork bonus. Same thing. You got to clean all the corners. You got to clean all the pipes, clean all the seams. It's it's a
terrible job. But you got to get a ton of membrane, clean it, and clean all these seams. You can't just go in and strip in all the seam. As far as doing repairs, you're not going to repair this roof. Thinking about it today. I called my rep over John Manville.
He actually sent me some pricing on the generic flashing and not even parallel plast the generic stuff. And you're still looking at $310 a roll for 100 foot roll of cover tape. And that's a 6 inch roll going 100 ft. You got
thousands and thousands of feet of seams of you got one is the flashing. Those rolls are like 220 bucks a roll. You get 50 ft out of a roll of 9 by 50 flashing. You might get three curves out of that. You got to double wrap everything.
You're probably going to need a pallet of each between cover tape and flashing just might be talking too. >> So, but you know >> like 50 grand. >> I think you're going to spend 50 in
material fixing you know all the corners all the team. It could get you a few years out of pushing 30 years in this roof. So, you know what I look at when we determine whether or not it's even worth it. The membrane still pliable.
This membrane seems like it's still got pliability to it. Even though there's a lot of issues when you strip in a 6 inch seam, you can't 6 inch tape. You got to use 9 in the old >> seed in six inch. You got to get over that fresh.
But you got cleaner, you got primate, you got flash tape, you know, to hit all the penetrations, curves, uprightes, target patches, and make this roof, you know, well, I would say bulletproof, but to get yourself some more time, you're
going to spend 50 minutes and get the time on how that works. It has to be >> if you know 60 bucks an hour [Music] the flashing goes up against the brick. >> That's probably something we should be
looking at way too is the condition of that brick along the edge. >> Yeah. >> But once you're done you just seal couple rows or something. >> So you don't seal the brick terminate on a wall.
put on a rough strip change just meant we glue glue the membrane right to the brick actually brick me really I was told yesterday that there was a plywood
top typically we use a dens deck which is only sheetrock it's like a green board protection board very dense and helps when you're walking on the You don't want to put down like a double layer 2.6 poly ISO and then have a bunch of guys
up there walking around working on curbs unless you're putting walkway guys everywhere. So a lot of times in the schools or shopping they will put dex which it's almost like sheet very very dense like sheetro and half inch thick
takes adhesive well and you can walk on it without creating divots. You don't >> roof have a cover board too. >> That is have a recovery board. You got different kind the rated one on the deck. I don't know what
>> I'm wondering if that was in their design. >> Like if you got a brand new construction, even if it was insulated plywood, I would still put a half inch recovery board on just so I have cleaned they do that.
I never I saw a room in 96. I never move any good. I can't speak for the guys. >> Mr. Chair, >> yes, >> the roof's in rough shape.
>> Terrible shape. So, the roof's done. So, how do we accelerate this to get the roof done by next summer? Yeah. How do we move the wheels? I know government works this phase, >> but how does this get accelerated to get it done? Chasing going to throw money at it.
>> I think you got to get the schematic in me with them and then we decide to move forward to full design. Then we got to get a special election. >> Well, I think the special town meeting takes 45. I don't know what a special election. >> We probably would want to do the town meeting prior to the maybe have the
election on April probably get unless we want to move it all have both. Well, by the time we get the information we need, >> we're looking at, you know, if we if we called it November 1st, you're looking at the middle of January before we even consider having
>> Yeah. And I mean, November 1st, Saturday is a little bit crazy to think about. Um and and so the other thing we could do and this is not by wheelhouse. So um >> select board um we could tentatively
schedule something that we have if we have enough time and I mean we're we're probably it's got to be Thanksgiving for us to get this be. If you back into it, say you want to start construction June 15th, the average you got to back three months up
to go out to bid. >> And I guess the question that I have you is who is still available to do a project when you are going out to bid and
>> that's my concern. Can I ask what is the concern if we can start August 1st and go to let's say now they're concerned we're going to be on the roof while session would that be with anything >> say yes or no
>> a lot of noise >> and you don't really want to do roofing at night ask me and then you got to worry about the whole Corey check >> not only that but you got to do the Corey check for everybody did the entire
like down to the studs renovation on the high school football schools in session three phases just move classrooms around and you know we could always do that. >> How how's the enrollment projection like for the next year or two? Do we think
we'll be >> Yeah. We're not going to have like a way where we can two or three classrooms and keep moving them around kind of thing. Yeah, >> the flat roof you're going to get dust
coming down when you're ripping the flat roof is we did we actually did hospital operating we had to do it after our Saturday but but we had to work around that extended with the school I would recommen recommend doing doing something
and 800 squares of rubber and you depending on the company you hire you know I mean I do a lot of work with company those guys are back easy 100 squares a day easy and that's an easy route it's not difficult to
build no gravel underly and you know it looks like it's already taped there I didn't see any diamond the tickets in the room. So I don't think it's a dated system just a double air stick where they wear a recovery board on it and something drains and
those infections will go super fast and the right you can't go in there and that's how good you get a guy in there with four or five guys drags on
where >> provisions in there so they can't do that. Whereas you you know if you brought in a company like JNS they 20 guys and 15 of them are experienced by the human and they've
been physic what I would suggest is you guys go back to the time bond the urgency of the timeline I'm sure they have a lot of projects but like any other like anything else that we all have to do for work you tell me you need it tomorrow. I
get it done tomorrow, right? So, they need to prioritize this project, our whole timeline leading up to the June, you know, construction. I don't know when you walk in this, but there's a there's a process here to get any reimbursement through the state and um
they assign and this project among the their network of that are aligned to the state approved and certified all this stuff plus they assign the designer. So they both the designer the architect and the OPN have already been involved. They
provided and the designer is working on a complete um uh replacement uh estimate and and design as proposed coach. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Well, that was that was an option. I
wasn't a fan of that either. >> So what I what I'm getting at is just we asked that they come to our next meeting next month. um even if they don't have the schematic design complete and what we need to do is what you're telling us here put
thoughts in there again kind of act as a smart customer you know if you look at this if you this look these you know shingle group versus and then hopefully they can incorporate those ideas into their design because
they're the ones who come up with the the um the solution right And >> so it's a roof consultant. We deal with consultants all the time. Some bad top recommendation. >> Is he the guy?
>> You don't have an option. >> I understand that. But you guys, >> that's a bad group. So I get no problem with you. Thank you for being here by the way. And you you're welcome to come every
meeting and share your thoughts and I get no problem. high school project that we would all challenge our design on OPM project manager on site and that's part of our role right but
the OPM's role is to represent the town not his architect not his represent the town so we'll set we'll set that when we meet >> I think you guys put too much faith in
what I think my opinion it's all I mean I just did we just did a thousand room but you know I don't I don't disagree >> I say to the honor about the guys are you know
>> I don't I don't disagree with you but in order for us to get the 55% reimbursement we have to we have to play by the you >> don't need to you everything you say got to build an inspect doesn't work for back to Zach's comment about moving it
up. You know, I know you can take say June 15th and go backwards. My only red flag and maybe it is is if we rush this through and get it approved say by March 1st, how many of these good contractors have
already been scoffed up? Well, you can go out to bid without it being approved. Didn't we do that somewhere before? >> You can eat alive. >> You can't do that in good faith without knowing.
>> I just think you move as expeditiously as you can and language, right? I guess my point is, Zack, if we pressure too fast, then all the good quality contractors are gone. If we wait another year, now we got this whole period of time where the good ones are
going to bid on it. >> Time to sell it. I'm thinking that summer and do a good sales pitch. Make sure it's done right. Do we have the funds to >> That's a good point. You guys
started off saying she knew it's probably not going to be summer anyway. >> Because there's not many contracts manager for a year the way it is. >> I guess what I need to know is like what do we want to do? Like what's the direction that you want us to take? If
it's going to be 27, he go out and spend >> $100,000 in passion. I'm right. >> Well, do we have the money? First of all, >> the guy that you respect who I guess a really good roofer and >> but he's got ideas and he's saying
labor. We purposely we purposely haven't done much to this roof because we got it approved by supposed to get them in fall town. Like I'm running out of time to get somebody up there to get this work done. My job is to keep that building safe. That's my job. And I don't know if I can do that job much longer if we don't make a
decision. I'm hearing spend 50,000, spend 100,000, don't go out to bid, go out to like we got to have some kind of direction. >> Yeah. I think we need to slow it down. >> I've had several roofs up there. >> Yeah. But I've had several roofs up there. Like please like like it's easy
for anybody to go up there and be like, "Hey, that's bad work. That's bad work. That's bad work." They bought us time since 1997 and we've managed those kids and the staff save that >> hold on
there enough time to get to next year. So to your point, where do we go from here? If if we're gonna spend 100,000, where's that money? Does capital >> Does the capital budget have that somewhere? That's question one. Two, we still have to go out to bid. We can't. It's over $10,000. I don't think we can
just write a purchase order. It's got to go with the bid now. >> I guess my point is if we have it >> unless it's an emergency repair, >> we have retail meeting. It's finally approved. We got over a year >> to bid on. Send it out right away and get your best best players to come forward.
>> That's the new roof. We're talking about the repair. >> Yeah, correct. What do we What funds do we have available? Let me ask that question. between 15 and 20. >> It was a quick patch because we're putting a brand new one if not all of
them. >> Yes. >> Yes. How long? >> How long is that? >> Well, you have to write up a whole bid documents. You can't just say fix the roof. You got to you got to identify
what you need and where you need it. >> I understand that. >> This is why we should have been involved a year ago. >> So, not again that ship sails. We can't back the train up. We got to move forward. The vessel.
>> Yeah. because he didn't know what there was no way this was going to get approved. Even if we had this discussion, we don't have this back designed yet. Even if we put it even if you can put it with Tommy. >> Yeah. I think they were >> at the time we had this restoration
which is what was recommended and when that was presented to school committee it was then that the school committee questioned restoration versus um full repair and full replacement. And so then everything sort of kind of started to unravel because then we started to learn
what the correct process of things was supposed to be which then entered into fincom with their questions and permanent building with their questions and select with their questions. So what has happened now is what we had of you know the ball of elastics that was this
big has now become the ball of elastics that is this big. And so it's slowly starting to roll away from us and so we're trying to track it back in. And again, what Wade's trying to say is is they were trying to be as handsoff as possible because they didn't want to touch anything and jeopardize any of the
processes that we have to go through and follow according to the state. So now we've run out of that time and so now we're trying really hard to kind of rein this back in. >> So let's just >> Yep. Where' we go? [Music]
We had to go take care of we need an idea where it is. We just get through the process. If you have to send it out to Biden we never seen flash every curb every pipe.
Okay. Just to get a year on >> that's going to get you that's going to get you at least. >> What are you talking about? all the penetration they say I say push a bit you're probably gonna be
100 grand for a year probably a few years let's say we're going to do it we want to just say when you say 15 grand anything >> it's gonna take you two months to get
bid documents put together >> can't go up one scene But you can't you can't go up there and point. You have to have quantifiable drawings for people to bid on. It's public law. You can't just say, you know, here's 100 grand, fix my roof. We
have to have drawings. That's >> you can't say that. You have to have drawings and the specifications. There's a whole process for it. We have to design a fix. >> But still, you have to have you have to have drawings and specifications for
every trade to bid on. You can't otherwise it's subjective. >> I didn't say anything to tell but we need to be able to have a way to so they all bid on the same scope of work. >> If you can do that emergency fund that's fine then maybe somebody has to go up
there and point what's >> Yeah. >> Well, we've been using the word band and that's what we're talking about. We're not looking for permanent. >> Well, what we wanted somebody, but we don't need $1 million donating for a roof either.
>> So, would it be fair to say that we will take the time to do the bid work that he needs to normally do, which is this is not unique. We've had to do this for years now. And then he can present what that final total will be to FINCOM. And fin would be willing to use reserve money
>> would would potentially be willing to use reserve money to cover. >> Okay. So if >> so is it fair to say that that is where we're going from here under $50,000
because you spend $50,000 in something that >> well I also believe it's fair to say that when we originally were discussing this and we were saying about getting through the winter we did say that it was approximately about 25 to 30 grand. So that was under your 50 grand that you were asking for.
So I would say that that's where we're starting is that Wade's going to do his paperwork and then we can have a presentation to Pincom and we can take it from there. >> All right. So >> do we have an existing roof? Should have one from the all the schematic. Do we have one?
>> I think I think we have to take one. Somebody has to mark it up to his point. Highlight this area and you call it level one. Whatever level one is. Maybe it's new seats. But we got to we we can't have a contractor just go up and they spend all the money over here and didn't do
anything over here. We have to be able to >> put our fingers. Yeah. Like you know what I mean? Something like that. We need something where they can focus on. >> Okay. >> But like all his pictures you see. >> I have them. We just want to make sure if we're going
to spend this 50 >> next summer, it's >> not going to happen. >> No. So, let's let's put the brakes on >> for another winter and figure out how to how to get that other money that explosion. >> You guys back to
I have to come back to you guys for >> I think you got But again, if you don't have past been able to scrape out of your fund somewhere to do it if you don't have back what you need, you know, but um it
would be reason. Yeah, you know, we need to keep it under 50,000, but if you can use any of his expertise to help you with that. >> Yeah, of course. We love that. You guys are on your own.
I've already told you what it seem was part of we were handed because they were They were the ones that came back. >> That's the car that we dealt with that following the warranty. So, we have >> Yeah.
>> If this We're at the point where the warranty is expired. It doesn't matter who it is now. We just want somebody who's going to lipstick on a p. >> We can't help you with this. >> I appreciate it, too. Yeah, definitely. >> Yeah. I think we sit here tonight, we hear about the new community center, brand new roof that hit me. We can't get
over that. Huge building middle school from day one. You like you, you know that day one. >> You talked about like the library with 11 gate never be built and found like this again. It should be more square box kind of buildings that was a joke from day
one. We had now we're gonna put them up, you know, that knows a little bit. [Music] What are you guys doing for >> I don't know off the top of my head. I
didn't I don't have that yet. >> I really didn't tell you. It's a warranty, but I don't remember it. >> We have the RFP and everything. I just don't have it. >> I think you guys should if you want to
stop by, you're welcome to take a look at it like tomorrow or something like that. >> I'm just curious. So, if you get a 20 year warranty with RPI or Goodyear stuff or you get a 20-year warranty with Mandela, which is excellent. So, there's and to
get an RPI warranty, I just got to go in and ask for it. I mean they told them they're going to buy 500 square propert if you're going to get firestone car mandela you got to show several years of workmanship you got to have inspection you show income and there's a lot to get
those warranties that's why they're the top manufacturers so when it's going up to the low bid low bid some of those guys can't get certified John certified so it makes a big difference when he was we can save a couple thousand property memory.
>> Yeah, we did when he was handling the town hall actually worked out all the bids on that kind of free contracted Yeah. He contracted with a consultant to the RFP. >> Yeah. And then um not sure why I wanted
to once we got once we got to that point when all building was down so forth the RFP went out went out the bid and the consultant basically handled But there wasn't like reviewing the the contractor and giving them like the tour of the building so they could take a look at it
15 grand for that. >> Correct. Was important, >> right? Finding a certified installer is not always sound certified installer, you know, my license. I want to be a certified installer and say, "You're a certified RPI guy. Welcome to group."
Well, you guys actually do your homework and say, "I'm going to stick with these three top manufacturers." We know that anybody Firestone John Manville or Carile certified NFL is going to be a quality guy because if they're not quality
award Monday. Yeah. >> We Let's get Wade off the hook before we get into the five to five. >> So you know what you're doing. >> So can you come back next week? >> We can't give you any money without a special town meeting. >> Correct. But you can >> can't give you any but the finance committee can't give you a transfer.
>> No. And you know if if it becomes a problem u the other guys will go to and but let us know so we can be there to support you on it too. >> You can come back next meeting and give an update if you want. >> Hopefully we got a plan by then. >> Sounds good. All right.
next to fight upon. Thank you. So, so I think the important one thing we should clear up that we've been talking reading these bylaws I I think the no we have a new town manager so hopefully it's followed properly going forward but I think the intent was
anytime anybody needs it something in this town whether it's the school department town hall fire department whatever they're supposed the request is supposed to go to the town manager once it gets to him then it goes to no it goes to capital first. Once capital
approves it, then it goes to finance committee. Once that's approved, then it comes to us to decide whether we need jurisdiction or not because obviously it could be a $20,000 project. We don't necessarily have to oversee it. So, I think what happened is that process wasn't defined because that the bylaws are confusing.
>> That's not I'm just telling you what the assumption was. The bylaws are a little confusing. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> And I will tell you that one of the
things that happens. But the one thing the permanent building committee does is they have a full assessment of all the town buildings and I and a plan the next 10 20 years as to what needs to be done to handle these buildings and they have a pecking order and they also have a fund kind of like
our capital improvement fund that's set aside. So when that building was found to have trail lights, they were able to say, "Well, okay, we're not going to replace the roof on the former West West Street Police Station, which the money was set aside for, and they switched it and was able to put the bottom half of
the whole building off and put all new siding and everything on to replace it, was a million dollars, and it wasn't a big crisis. They had this very active building committee that has a lot of good talented people like yourselves on it that pay attention to stuff going forward and have a contingency plan. And I think that's what we're looking at is
we'd rather have a per it's a little more >> in depth and ready to rock and roll and knows everything. So you know plan's coming do we knew that this was coming with the tea down on the town hall and I tried to beat up Mr. Unix over and over again include money for the fire station
to do all their work. You know it has to be done and and he didn't want to money the waters and possibly have the project down in flame for the new town hall by adding additional monies here but we still need the monies. So they're back here now. So they're interested about the school project. Let's look at what
they need to finish the inside as well because that's part of the roof job one way or the other instead of having it come back separately. >> And this may be a separate conversation because I know I've highlighted this in you guys. But if you read the town charter, it says capital improvement committee shall be established anyway to
set forth a six to four of the town charter whatever section that is. But it says, "Shall undertake the review and recommendation with respect to departmental requests for capital items and capital improvements to be undertaken in the next 5 years." That's the five-year plan I've been asking about the last three years. And a capital improvement is anything over
$10,000. >> So that's why we were saying everything should go. >> You know who the chairman of the capital improvement committee? >> Not me. >> So hold on. So which is the first step. are voting. >> Yeah.
>> So again, I think this stuff isn't worded correctly. >> There's too much of this. >> Right. You've always had >> not us, >> you know, >> not us. I think the capital I'm not pointing. I'm trying to straighten it out so we all understand what we're
>> equipment. Equipment like a ladder truck and all that kind of I I agree with you. But then But then it come manager is Boris Queen. >> Correct. >> He's the one running the town. He comes with facts. I have chapter 20 of the
mass laws that you know. >> This is more specific >> about what should and shouldn't be done. So he's the first step. Once he finds that we have a roof going on in a school, he should come to the permanent
building committee and say, "This is going to be a project, but we're the ones that's supposed to oversee it." >> Mhm. >> So, here's the project. What do you think? Then it follows the regular process for capital and finance and and everything else along the way. But these
two projects between the fire department and the school were not handled properly and we were not advised properly. my personal opinion about what you guys are doing in the fire department. You guys are too far ahead of us. You might as well just finish it >> because we're we're we're totally out of it.
>> Well, to add on to what you said, Bob, like when you when we met with you, I don't know what it was, >> six months ago when October 30th, 2023. >> That long ago >> we met Yeah, we met. >> Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say
>> you did. >> And we said if you need help, ask for it. We didn't think we thought you had it under control, but I think the value kept increasing. >> Okay. And that's what was but we didn't have final pricing because >> the bathroom that's
>> actually did they were in the middle of doing the construction of the bathroom. Yes, you're right. We did we did use some utilize some staff, right? >> Yeah. had we had prisoners painting in there and trying to save money everywhere we can. So all of the all of
that that strategy we didn't want to get in the way of that. If if you start bringing in permanent building committees oversight then we you know anything over a million and a half you have to get in larger management right now that means prevailing wave. So we to
Bob's point we kind of like >> you're ahead of us keep going >> out of the mind in the chatter it says you guys can refuse the project if you want. Correct. >> So you send it back to them is what you guys are saying >> and the town manager never gave it to us in the first place. >> Correct. >> We we gave it back to them. You never
had it. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So my point is this, you know, you guys are already into it, >> right? >> You've already got your plans. You know what you want to do. The only way we can help you in my opinion is, as I indicated earlier, there's any money left over from this building, the school
fields, and the community building. If there's any money left over, >> then we could perhaps throw a few bucks at you. From what I'm hearing, there may not be a lot of it. >> But if there is something, we can maybe help you out that way. But >> at this point in the game, you guys are so far. Even the school department did
so much more than they had to do. >> Yeah. >> You know, because they weren't told the proper procedures. What of the work that they're doing, we had to do would have been our job. >> So, you guys are already into it. So I say from this point forward, town manager will get the information
and he'll say whoops. Okay, we just red flag that one for the permanent building committee and we can look at that kind of stuff. But personally, I don't think we should be involved in your project at this point. >> Yeah, >> unless you want us to be unless you get overwhelmed to watch
in the interest of being respectful of you of your time. So you guys kind of know the history of how we got to where we are now, right? We came to you guys twice. We went to capital revenge. The first few times we went to capital this click. We we asked and received $300,000. >> Um at that point we stated each time that we didn't know what the final
amount was going to be because we were waiting to get a quote back or an estimate back, excuse me, from the architect. Um which we we secured the architect in January. We didn't get the estimate after all that process until like mid June sometime around there. Um so next available capital meeting which
was October 2nd of this year, the the came to $1.4 million. So we had we had 600 we asked for another we asked for 900 in total. 800 of that was to to make up the balance of the the construction project for for what this is called for and estimate you know escalation and the
contingencies and stuff. >> Um and then an additional $100,000 to to try to replace the boilers in the basement currently in the basement. There's there's after they tore that building down all four boilers are still there and all four boilers are still being used. Um they're like over 40 years old. They're they're kind of in
disrepair getting harder to find parts. They're still working uh to be to be fair, but you know, for how long I'm not really sure. >> Put the last back then. >> $100,000 the estimate from the boiler company, we can go down from four boilers to big boiler. We figured if we're doing construction, we're having all this
stuff going on just to kind of get all this stuff, you know, done at once. >> Why would you look at energy efficient to many splits? >> We do. We do have some we do have some mini splits being used instead of as well. We did the whole for the green neighbor I think it's green neighbors
green communities um they came in and we had to do weatherization which we really didn't have the money to do it all. So we did partial with the new town hall side and when they came in there they said it's not it wouldn't be efficient to do the the mini splits in that side. Um so what we ended up doing is there was two roof units on there. There was
one from 2018 that's three times the size of what they need and one on the fire department was probably from the 80s. So, what we ended up doing is taking all the duct work from the fire department, hooking it into the three this one that was put in in 2018 and taking the um the old one off. And that
was one of the hiccups with the roof because we didn't want to get the roof and then have to take the unit off. And then when they came up and looked at it, they found out that the one on 2018 was never installed correctly. So, they had to do a lot of work to get that installed to get to the point that we could do the roof. Um, and I can tell you right now, the place doing that,
it's I mean, the AC cranks in that place. I mean, it's it's cold. They they really did a good job with that part of it. But the boilers basically heat and bring heat up into those units to bring it back down. And like I said, they're every single pretty much every single pipe leaks. Every I hate to have to shut
down anything because they came in and there was a leak and they shut it down and then they had to replace the valve and they had to replace something underneath it because everything they did just started breaking down. So, point. The boilers are a capital improvement issue, not ours. >> Yeah,
>> that's capital improvement. So, you guys still have the opportunity to go to capital to try to get those >> those boilers. Can you get money for that to come back to you guys and this says over, you know, this is maintenance repairs over $25,000 called the permanent building committee
and it actually specifically says from somewhere >> service equipment, right? Correct. Once again, >> we're back there to make an official pick a vote saying no question.
If you want to do that, you can do that. I just think would appreciate your guidance in terms of scope because we're half a million dollar short and they have $900,000 but looks at today it's going to cost 1.4 before maybe when we
go to next town meeting it right we're trying to keep it below 1.5 so we don't have an OPM >> yes >> so do they use some of the money now for design >> how much have you got so far >> so we we we received 900 so far we've
spent about $95,000 and and and honestly spending it in that in that manner I have to give the guys credit for doing the lottery work on their own and u and also by not having like you guys talked about earlier not having to go out to bid and have an RFP doing the projects that were less than $50,000. We save
probably about $100,000 just doing it that way so far and using the prisoners for painting. We've really been trying to be as cost effective as possible. Long story short, yeah, so about 95. We received 900. So, let's just say we have 800 left. Talking with the architect a couple of days ago because when we went
to capital, we we asked for the 900, we got 300, right? Um, so that's how we ended up at nine instead of the the 1.4, right? >> 1.4. Does that does that include the two boil boils? >> No. >> Yeah. The 800 that we asked for in addition to
can that be broken out separate. It's just a matter that 1.5 is there over 1.5 separate project. >> Separate project. >> Yeah. We have the money at the same time but the projects were going to be separated out. >> That would be it's not going to be
general contractor will be doing that project. is not going to be hiring enough to boil a person and and all that stuff be us as I understand it. >> So his capital board had a vote on capital budget. Yeah. My my comment when we went through
the line items was I know you requested 900,000. Actually the town manager recommended 900,000. I don't know if it was a fing pong that reduced it to 300. >> No, it was the capital committee. >> Oh, capital. That's right. >> So, did you guys approve the 900 as well
or fing? >> No, we approved whatever the recommendation of capital committee was. >> So, my comment was because I I read through all your rationale on your packet, >> right? >> And and you were worried about it. You want to get it done quickly to feed the
pasta and then it took extended amount of time like double as >> yeah but we asked them to phase it thinking that maybe we could change they had it like over several years but it was uh I'm just using round numbers 1.4 to do it as a whole project and 3.3 if
they phase it separate phases you kind of went into like three phases or something >> that's not good. So I I mentioned that in our meeting I said we've only given them 300. Isn't that going to like triple the cost because now they're going to have to do it over multiple phas. >> Okay. >> So how much
>> is that where you're sitting right now? Is you're looking at cost more over multiple phases? >> Yeah. So kind of like the like the Tommy just mentioned I guess to you guys would be just to get some some guidance. The spot we're doing right now is we have we have $800,000. Right. We we circled back
with the architect a couple of days ago, you know, in preparation for this meeting just to try to see like, hey, what can we do for that amount of money, that's that's all we have, right? Um so basically we would stop doing anything on on the first floor. So that would eliminate uh the bathroom conversion on
the first floor, the additional office, and then one of the other concept and you guys have plans over there, but I can just explain it to you. um water out of the first was that stairway we wouldn't need anymore on the capacity of the the last one on the second floor
that save that how much that saves. >> Yeah. So if we drop if we drop that up we're going to save probably about $150,000. So the thought process was to take those stairs out of there and basically just carry that floor right across and now you just gain maybe 300 feet on the 200 feet or so on the second floor and same
thing on the third floor for future office space or growth. my concern. Are you still looking now because this is going to be over multiple phases, but it's still costing roughly $3 million. >> No, I'm sorry. >> So that that's kind of that's kind of
that's kind of where we're at, right? So for the $800,000 that we have on hand, we could do we have to cut 600 square feet area off of the second floor budget >> and not do anything else on the first floor >> and stop all the stuff that I just mentioned on the on the first floor.
Fine. Um, we would probably have to eliminate the classroom portion on the second floor. It's the most logical area. And then at some point, we would probably have to come back and and ask to try to finish that off. >> No, we the training room just have to
have a makeshift training room in the >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, let's look over the next five years, right? So if you had had the extra 600,000 from the capital improvement committee, would you have been able to do everything that
you just mentioned you're cutting out and done it for 1.4 million? >> Yeah, that's what the estimate was for. >> So why that was silly that I guess we if you don't have the money, you don't have the money. I get that. >> My suggestion would be finances $600,000
hopefully. accounts to borrow,000 miles over 10 years. I thought James,0005 [Music] originally did it as borrowing the
900,000. We came up to about $124,000 a year and then it escalates down but decreases down. >> I can tell you it's that's going to be close. >> What's the building worth? Do we know >> a whole building or No, it's just about 50 years old. I
think it was built in 70. >> And then what were the improvements on the first floor that you were going to eliminate? You said bathrooms. So, so on the first floor, what we one of the things that we've already done is the the front the front entrance over there. We're gonna hasn't we haven't transitioned over there yet, but we had
it reconfigured. So, it's ADA compliant. >> There's actually a service window there now. And our admin desk is going to go over. So, right when you walk in that front entrance, you step to the right. The service window. Yep. And the admin's office is right there. You push the button, it'll open the handicap door. So it acts as a handicapped access and also
as a security feature so somebody can't just walk in uh to the building without being buzzed. >> So what are the bathrooms you weren't going to do? the older >> ones. When you walk through that door now, >> directly ahead, there's there's a a woman's room. >> Uh I think he has two stalls, double sink, so forth. And then around the
corner, there's a men's room. It's actually really big. There's a big uh hand accessible stall. you got to do is take that men's room, split that into two, make a >> room, >> then that lady's room, you wouldn't just
convert that into office space or like a coffee room with a table in it boxes so you can put it in people's spots. >> Right now, we are right. If you want to go to our classroom today and you're handicapped, you literally you have to
go up, you have to go through the front, >> come all the way down the hallway to the back of the building, >> go up the elevator, >> the fire department kitchen >> and then go down the catwalk and then go into the >> kind of we're trying to
>> you guys do the project. You don't want to be involved. No, you you guys have got to and I guess the word would be prioritize what is really important right now. Finish what you're doing. Get it done. Public phase one.
>> Yeah. >> Wait a couple years. Come back. Let's talk about phase two. You know, I know I know we want to get it done. >> Yeah. >> But at the same time, we got to come up with the cash. >> Yeah. No, we can we can do whatever to just know so that we can start. that
the process we can't to the point earlier that we were talking about like we can't ask the architect to design the full project and then not have the money to do the full project. We can ask them to design a project for let's say 800 and then move forward with that and and that and that's fine but otherwise we
have to if we're going to try to access additional money in like the the you know the spring and have it available in July and we're pushing the project back eight or nine months. So it's escalate when I got on the the Everything was pretty much done for the most part. I got on because I wanted the
old town hall knockdown. It was being told by the town manager it couldn't happen. Well, guess what? We figured out a way to make it happen. >> So, it came down. We never anticipated a quander what we're going to spend inside the fire department. >> That was never discussed. And when I heard 300 grand, I thought
>> maybe not to you, but tell me that wasn't mentioned. >> 300 grand. I say, "Okay, 300 grand. We'll we'll put some paint on and put up some parts." >> It's not a lot of money >> and call it a day. And now we're talking 1.4. So now we're on the other side of the spectrum. >> Because back then they they had all the construction trailer.
They could have just transitioned. You know, I don't know what the savings would have been, but it would have been something anyway. >> We could just take 500,000 from stabilization and do it. Should be, but I can't say that's what >> Yeah. >> I mean, it's just like anything. We we
have to cut down the scope. We have to decide what's >> you got to find out your needs and wants. >> Well, we we know our needs and wants to have that. It's just trying to figure out >> what can we put like you said the training room. Can you make do without it? It sucks. It's not what you want. >> But we did that with this building. This
building was 20% bigger. We cut it down. Same thing. >> There you go. There's 150 right there. >> That's cutting a new one. >> Taking one out. Taking Okay.
Why I won't even hold off and gamble spring I recommend when you go with the 800 grand because the springtime means we're not going to have the money. >> We'll be fine with the school >> spring we're not going to have it. >> Yeah. >> I think that's what we do.
If there's money left like for 900 that whole according to the architect that whole second floor would be be done including that that platform and now hey you know honestly maybe 800 they come in and bid and we're like surprisingly less than we thought we're just going based off the best information that we have on
that we trigger million that's the other part the other half suddenly halfway into something and say whoops you know we don't have enough money and then then it triggers that 135 But you always have to be careful because once you hit one/ird of the
value of the building over like two years, ADA kicks in. >> You know what I mean? That's why I said what's the value of your building? >> If you have 1.5 and your building's worth 3 million, you got to make the thing. I know hypothetically ADA kicks and what happens is what kills towns.
They go, "Haha, we're going to we're going to devalue our own buildings to save tax money." And then every time they want to touch it, ADA kicks in and nothing gets done because every building needs an elevator, every building needs a handicap ramp, everybody needs bigger bathrooms. I've seen it a million times. That's why I brought that question. >> I think we need ADA.
>> I think you do. It sound like you do. You have an elevator. >> Certainly better situation than we were. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah, because you didn't have those bathrooms before, right? Yeah. So, you're in better shape. But I think we we need to add a new member to the capital improvement committee. Somebody
from this committee from the building committee have representative on that capital improvement committee because we had added people on in the past like we realiz years ago when I was on the school committee they realized that there are school projects and there's no representative schools. So now there's a member of the school.
>> You took the planning to >> it was planning as well. >> You took the planning off to give to school. So, so some maybe in the future. I don't know how you >> I don't think that's supposed to be by our charter. They're supposed to be
>> Yeah. No, when we when we did it was I might be wrong, but I don't >> there. Right. Right. Right. So, I'm just saying that might have just gone by. is Audrey on my
weekend. No, I'm saying we need to we need to add >> whatever we did to add the school committee me who's the voting member. >> Well, we took the same thing to add to the tri what we did. We took the planning board member off which was useless. We need that person
and gave it to you. Are they voting? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> We did >> if one of us was on the capital improvement committee. I'm not saying the vote would have been different, but
at least we would have had somebody argue in your position who's a >> representative of the town, not an employee. I I'm afraid that in five years we're going to we're going to say we spent a million dollars more than if we had 600,000 approved day one instead of the
300 you know instead of the 900,000 instead of 300,000. But >> and the other thing is as far as you know as far as the monetary know obviously any $10,000 has to go to to the capital improvement committee right
anything less than that the departments can spend on their own as expenditures out of the budget but over 10 million they can go to the capital improvement committee I guess the school department could decide to spend 50 if they wanted to on top but the threshold in order to
bring it is10 10th and then as we talked about a million this committee um if it's over a million and a half we need to be helping with the project if no other purpose than to help select the
OPM right and then monitor every month or two months bring them in and have them give us an update >> the other the other 25,000 anything over $25,000 No, that's what the master laws.
>> That's why there's a conflict. >> Yeah, >> I think I think that's >> say chapter 20. >> I got the mass general. >> Yeah, chapter 20 of America. [Music]
>> This is annual meeting. [Music] >> Yeah, but I've got more detail. So, It says capital community supposed to do a fivey year plan and it says PBC supposed to do a 10-year plan. I'm like
how the hell does that happen? >> Has them taking a vote and supporting it? >> I think so. I mean I don't we don't have to oversee every single project. >> Absolutely. And by the way >> it says major, you know, and definition to me major is anything over a million and a half because that's when the OPM
kicks in. But as far as but as far as oversight project management every month we're volunteers. We're not employees of the town. So there's only so much we're going to be able to do right. We're not OPMs. We're
not clerk of the works. We're not construction managers on staff under the town doors. And so that's when you when you came before us, we were thinking, okay, how much are we going to help these guys? They're already doing it on their own. They don't get in the way, right? So we we almost it almost has to be an
LPM driven project for us to be valuable that way, right? >> Yeah. >> Saw the job you did for the high school, right? >> Well, that's a bigger job. That's what 80 million or something.
>> But you're only as good as your folks, right? So, you need to have a good That's why I was asking the school folks how they felt about that bad, huh? >> Huh? >> How was that? >> He he seemed uncomfortable with the presentation. That's what I'll say. And
I watch him. He looked very uncomfortable. He kept asking the other guy for the end zone. >> The heavier guy. >> He was the guy that was on the right. James, >> they just seem like they were asking for
answers from each other. >> I knew you were going to say something else and you cut yourself. >> So, you've given them 300,000 300,000 from the ambulance account. >> Yes. >> We give you another 300,000
where I honestly don't think it that's why we have to borrow it over over 10 years because it would have been a little over $100,000 and even right now we're running the numbers. do a little bit better. They paid for 15 firefighters, two fire,
I think that that's not by accident we raised that revenue last year after he back. >> I think one thing that has to happen, I think this has to get to his point earlier. I think there's some confusion
in here and ask me if there's something else. I think somebody has to sit down clear direction on what committee does what. I think it's confusing. Ask me >> Well, it says capital does a fiveyear plan. We're supposed to do a 10-year plan. What?
>> You don't want to be talking about >> No, me either. >> Well, then read read the definition of a construction. Construction and demolition shall include excavation, filling, and grading. That's the definition of construction. The hell that should be this plus, you know, that's on top of this. I think it's very
pissful writing. >> That's what I mean. Every time we got to dig a grave, they're coming to us. No, you can't be buried. >> My opinion is if we ask for any more money, shoot us.
>> Yeah. >> We're not going to be able to take it from available funds. especially regard. >> So, by the way, this is why it the town manager is a gatekeeper with things that come before us is because we we don't
understand the finances and how much the ambulance account has been completed. That's the all that's why it's got all filtered through them and like you guys tried to do with the previous town manager and I don't know what happened with that but he came to us instead and we said kind of keep doing what you're
doing >> but it should have been managed by the town manager. He should have made the decision. Um I don't think he was in that meeting. I think James was but not manager. >> The the one in October 23 >> or maybe it was October
over there. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, so Mark, which it was fought again. So, what would happen if we took the 800,000 they had left, put it right back into the ambulance account, transfer it back into the now
that zero. We're still in the appropriation. We did the appropriation and bond the whole thing to pay it out of the ambulance account over an extended period of time. >> 300. >> Could you make an interest off the 800?
concerned about the balance of theation. >> So you hope that you catch up. You'll remember we took a million dollars and putting capital improvement. >> We only spent 135,000 on >> correct. It's going to go to the spring.
which we normally do. We almost fund every >> spend it. You're going to spend it and spend 800. >> You're going to spend a lot in there. I don't know what other departments have project ambulance payments. You have fire truck loans. You have all the stuffs. We have
boards that we borrow money on and the payment. You're going to look at all the fixed payments that come on the spring before anybody else. 340 for the Prometheium boards. >> The fire trucks, the ladder truck, and the ambulance
bonded reserve at the capitalization. >> So we have 800,000 not supposed. >> Well, the thing is we might be able to do the second floor for 900 and that means we'll need 900 more to the construction.
first. >> Yeah. >> Another option. Another option, but I don't want to jeopardize the school roof. >> The other option is you go for $9.9 million for the school and you add another >> million
>> million dollars for the >> But that could that could probably not a good idea. I don't think I think >> I think [Music] the only other thing that I was just
mentioning to Zach is so like >> next year for example the the the apparatus payment $649,000 that's slated to come out of the out of the ambulance fund. If that if it wasn't if we if we totally up to you again if
you transition that to be a capital payment instead of that money as opposed to sending >> right we still have to do it. Yes, we could do that. We could bond it out of the reserve. >> That would allow you to do the whole
whole job. >> James, how many years can you budget for? 10 15 useful life is probably 20, but the shorter the better. I >> agree. the day meeting would would you be able
to stay stay on track without the phase? So I think so the next step from here is to do uh the schematic obviously you guys know the schematic drawing construction documents develop the RFP um I actually wrote it and um I know so you're looking
at from the time we say go ahead about 6 to 8 months from that point in time to go the time till we go out to bid >> oh that's that's just a I mean you guys might know better than me I'm just going by what the architect I have the thing from long just a long time.
>> You at that point then it may if you don't get the money scale it back then there's no harm no how you get $800. >> I I guess you could I mean maybe again maybe you guys can give us guidance on this but we have them I guess we need to tell the architect what the design >> because we're paying for that. >> The problem is
>> the design is according to him 10% of the cost >> bid for 800. Because spend so much on design. Let's get a contractor on >> 50 grand a month for a contract. >> Spend so much money with construction guys. Get them going
on. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Company to see if if they would be able to help us at all. >> So the prison is that an organization? >> Sheriff's Office. >> Okay. Yeah, >> I wanted to make sure it's legit.
>> That's fine. I just want to make sure it was okay. Said that I'm like, >> do you volunteer prisoners to paint? >> My house needs to be painted. Can I sign those guys up? [Music]
>> Everything probably high if you guys want. I mean I can didn't want to make the point >> was joking about and all the work you've done and everything was that 1.4 million based on prevailing wage or wasing [Music]
the projects that we've already done based on that also being done at prevailing wage. So you said I feel we already gain about $100,000 out now you drop another 150 >> right? Um, so now it's not it's not it
might not be 1.4 at this point. Maybe, you know, you look at 1.2 and you probably get get everything done and have, you know, maybe $50 to $100,000 of just in case money. There is >> the 900 that I didn't mean to interrupt
you, but the 900 that you originally requested is definitely going to be less because you've already done work cheaper than what he had estimated. Yeah, I think this point will be. Yeah. >> And you pretend if you keep going this route by using prisoners or whatever
else or in-house uh employees. >> So I think that I think we're kind we're maxed out on on that aspect of it because the next the next phases that we can do are all going to be over it's going to be one project. It's obviously going to be over $50,000. So like >> like we did like one one component of
what we did was like $47,000. So we just kind of squeak by on that, you know, to to stay in compliance with the the laws and everything. Had that get taken care of. >> You've already economized as much. Some of us did the the work in the bathrooms did a great job to to do that. And that
was, you know, basically free labor for all types of purposes and we paid for the materials. >> You just taken out the stages. >> I'm sorry. >> How much was it? >> 150. >> So it wasund um it was like 150 to 160 if it was incorporated into the whole project. And if you did it in the phased
approach, I think it was like 260 something or 250 or something like that. >> Okay. >> I'm being honest. The family was just kind of a thinking towards the future >> to have to grow without having to come back and ask
>> ask you guys for because of the second floor, not for the players. >> Three tears right now. The big thing I think is if if we can get the second floor done that that would be >> is the 900,000
>> you do that according to him that would cover the whole second floor >> and you have the money for that right >> okay you're 100 short okay and the other 800 was for the first floor right >> and that's if the bid comes out exactly as if we're lucky I guess it's a little
higher then >> between that and the boiling it'll be 200,000 But we'd have to get it out of something other than >> But boilers could fall onto capital improvements potentially. >> I I know. I understand. I'm trying to find a way to cut the pie. So
>> So we have one strategy. That's >> they have the 800 or do we just wait? >> What do you have to design? >> What he's saying is when they design it, they designing for the eight or designing for the 1.4. can always phase it and put two phases
only bitting one >> phase one and phase two or phase right either either hold >> yeah and see you all think that's the best course and try that way or or just make do with what we have and then try to circle back at
>> you can do it for phase who think it doesn't go with the >> Yeah, but you have to add it. You have to accept it at award. >> If you bid two phases, the day you award the project, you have to select what you want. You can't say, "Well, we'll come
back to this in six months." The price 30 days. >> Well, >> you can, but you have when you award, you have to determine at the time award which alternate you're accepting. You can't say six months from now because that's a that's a bid violation because other jobs
do it work egress and everything at a Fine. >> When you you can do with an alternate, but keep in mind do a phase project. This is the trap everybody falls into. I put a
presentation together on this. Phase one has to function if phase two never happened. >> You can't be like one and two and just cut it in half. Oh, your boiler's over here but you know but you know something else over here and they're supposed to work together. You got to make sure they stand alone. >> So if it's only finishes like toilet,
you know, repaint the bathroom and that's that's not affecting the other area. Just got to make sure it's designed. Here's phase one. Assume phase one is finished and then we're going to do phase two. You say phase two, you mean all of them. >> Correct. But you have to make sure they they're in mutually exclusive. They
can't depend on each other. >> It's like I I give the analogy you're building a house and you're building a garage, but your water heater is in your garage and then you decide, well, the the garage is an alternate. We're not going to build it. Well, dope. Now you don't have a water heater because it was in the garage that you chose not to build. >> That's the analogy I'm trying to say.
>> Yeah. >> Exactly. Long as long as you they're mutually exclusive. You can bid them and they say, "You know what? would have enough for this. >> One of the things we're doing is is >> simply to have the owner share it with one person. >> Correct.
>> Right. >> Oh, yeah. >> Right. >> Um but yeah, you can't can't take that away without them. You can't take out their dorm. >> Correct. >> Currently without having a place already for them to go. But if it's if it's also part of a starting early so that there
would be places for people to relocate >> during during the process because like the bathrooms going to would get thrown up part of the project is the the three showers upstairs instead of one for we have currently >> going to make sure they phase correctly. >> It sounds like the recommendation of the
is to have the designer your architect do all of the work for the entire full project. Pay the extra 10 15% for the piece that we're not sure about right now. Right. and then they have to go through all of the drawings and all the work they do with the smack design and construction documents
and then put it out to bid and then in May don't award anything yet until the money is approved in May and um and you know bite the bullet on the front end with the 100% full project that you originally spoke out. >> That's fine. It's good we're having this
discussion. You don't need >> No, 100%. I appreciate I appreciate the time. Probably the best thing to do now is just you guys work together the rest of the way. >> Find the money. >> Find a strategy on the money. >> If you get Southeastern Regional who has qualified instructors, licensed
instructors to come in and do some of the work for you, plumbers, electricians as two examples. >> In the meantime, even if they're putting in plugs where you're going to have them bench, that's going to save you a bundle of money if you have it under. >> All you're paying for.
>> No, I get it. That's the same concept as when we use the prison. I think that the trick is just to figure out what how would they mesh into >> you going out to bid and then you're going to have these guys don't work >> the money's the waters
they could do that blank wall 75 grand. >> Yeah. >> That would be a goodank >> like your training room. You could run infrastructure for to his point. You can run your conduits and work boxes with pull strings and I'll pull wire and get to that later.
>> The infrastructure behind the drywall. >> Yeah, it's easy to pull those later. >> Already pretty much so you already professional. >> Yeah, I guess we've reached out to them a couple times. Okay. We're we're we haven't really you got back to us once
and said they'll get back to you and we we haven't heard back. I'm sure they're busy. >> So, we're we have tried we have tried that. Not I don't know yet. >> You >> No, it's actually J. I think his name is Jared. She the superintendent gave me to
the person who's a child. >> Yeah. I had I got three phone calls and four emails to respond back. >> Drive up there. >> I can go back. I'll go back to the superintendent again. >> Don't we have a represent? >> So design is phase one and two bidded is
phase one, two, two being alternate and see where it lands. And at that same time, you'll work on see if there's somewhere you can get enough money to do the whole thing by whatever strategy you have that 800 you talked about. >> Yeah. >> Maybe surprisingly you only need 200
more. Who knows? >> But again, when you do the design, think of what you whatever you can cut out. Like you said, value engineer. >> I think the stairway is not automatic at this point. Just >> remember, value engineering isn't cost cutting. It's a misnomer.
But if I said, keep in mind, value engineering is not cost cutting. There's no value in getting rid of something. >> That's why people say it all the time. It drives me up the wall. A drywall ceiling and acoustic ceiling have two different values. Well, no ceiling has
no value. Does that make sense? >> But if you to your point, if you can eliminate painting or flooring or something that you guys can do yourself, take it out of the bid package, it's fine. Don't interfere with the contracting. You can't do something that's going to hold up his occupancy.
>> Like you can't say, "We'll do all the doorork knobs." Well, he puts the doors on without the door hardware. You're interfering with his occupy. >> Yeah. This point. >> Okay. >> It's also a matter of us having time to >> actually do it because it's taking away
time from >> Yeah. Well, we're gonna have a lot of prisoners to come and help then. Yeah. Like the painting. >> Well, you know what too, like I said, my son's a junior in the high school and there's a lot of kids that have to what
120 hours of volunteer time. >> Might be able to get some kids into some pain, too. Somebody's willing to supervise him. But it's another option. Get right on you made up for you. >> Remember it was built in 1978. That was
that was like tentier on the job at that point. It was made for three firefighters. So that's three. >> Population's grown. taking possible space in that building. We literally think to put a bedroom
there. >> Do we want to make a motion to adjourn? things like you guys journed.