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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=D-ZGmgLGf-k

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Uh, good evening. I'd like to call to order the uh board of assessors meeting for this evening, Tuesday, June 30th. On the record, I'd like to uh make uh [clears throat] to be present would be uh our clerk James Shabbet, member Lucas

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Ray, um myself, the chairman, and the director of assess uh Richard Dorny and the director of assessing uh Denise Ellis. So with that, uh Denise, uh the agenda, I believe, um acceptance of

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meeting um meeting minutes for >> Yeah. So um for June 2nd, they're not ready. >> Yep. Because that's fine. >> Um but I do have June 23rd if you want to do those. >> Yeah, I reviewed those. >> Okay. >> Uh Jim, those are easy. Yeah, >> nice and easy. >> They were very easy.

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>> Um uh we could have a motion to approve those. Mr. Chairman, I make a motion to approve the minutes of June 23rd, 2026 as written. >> Okay. Is there a second? >> Okay. All those in favor?

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>> I >> I sign that. Okay. All right. Next on the agenda would be uh business under new business. Okay. Now um did anyone get a chance to see

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Denise's email and review it? >> Yeah. Okay. >> You guys want a copy of the packets? >> Um which one? I've got this. >> Yeah. Yep. Do you need one? >> So I think this kind of um came about from for a couple of reasons. Y >> um

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>> won our questions from our prior meeting and then you was a new member >> and um so Denise maybe you can tell that you went to your annual meeting. I was at my summer conference

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um and I talked the state was there doing a presentation so I talked to um the director of DLS and do the lawyer um let him know what was going on. Um

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then I reach they had me reach out to our state our rep that we work with for our values all the time. Um and they talked to their boss, they reviewed the meeting and this is what they send us >> um all that information

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>> or about how >> we do have to do inspection >> which is what we need. We need to know because whatever we do it has to follow the law, >> right? And that's that's all we've ever done in this office is follow the law. >> No, no, but there are different ways of following the law. There's not one way

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to follow the law. There's always multiple ways. Not when it comes to the assessors and inspecting properties, things like that. We have to go by, you know, the procedures and laws that they're telling us. We just >> variation. I understand that. But there are many variations within what's

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required >> in in any >> You mean well there's standards. I mean, >> at least from my point of view, I'm not looking to go outside of any standards whatsoever. >> Okay. >> That's I just want to make sure that >> that's you know what I mean? If there's a standard, it's written y

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>> that's it. Yep. >> That's >> Yeah. >> Um, >> so so tell them I think you guys >> in regards to the Would you agree with that? >> I would like to stay within [clears throat] the standards, but I feel like the standard in Norton hasn't been the same standard that other towns

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apply. You know, as far especially in regards to this certificate of occupancy requirement. So, you know, I built several homes in other towns. I've, you know, never had an assessor have to do an interior inspection on a build in order to get the CO issued. and only in

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Norton. So, you know, that's that was my agree with Jimmy. With that said, >> discussed that last meeting. >> Well, let me just say let Denise, she wasn't at the last meeting. >> Let me just say one thing about that. That's not true. A lot of towns do that and it's not illegal to do that. As a

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matter of fact, our rep that we have that I've been working with for 10 years, he was an assessor in another town. He did it in his town and he recommends all of his towns to do that. >> So, what did I say that was not true that he's that other towns don't do this? I didn't say every town doesn't do it, but the towns I built in I built

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several. >> No, I'm just You're just saying you haven't heard it before. >> Well, you just said it wasn't true. It's not It's not true. It's just not every town follows the same. >> I'm not making an [clears throat] argument. I'm just saying there are other towns that do. >> It's It's Would you say um it's recommended? >> It's recommended by the state,

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>> but it's not mandated. >> But those two statements aren't in conflict. >> Right. >> Some do, some don't. >> Right. Right. Exactly. >> Right. You guys have just said you've never heard of it. I'm just saying no, it does happen. That's all I'm saying. So, it's recommended, but it's not mandated.

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>> Don't need to follow it. But, and we've talked about it at our last meeting. And um I believe there's some changes with the building department too on their procedures as far as how they going to sign off. >> That's that's what I've heard. I don't

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know. Did you talk to him personally? So yeah, that's what I've heard, but that's again, you know, outside of the assessors, you know, we have no control over what he does with, you know, you know, certificate of occupancy. So, you know, I did hear that, you know, the only departments that are going to be

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required to sign off is the the departments that are required by law, the building department, fire department. You know, this there's, you know, possibly conservation if there's a conservation issue. um board of health, you know, might come into play, but you know, the assessors doesn't, you know,

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belong on the certificate. Do >> you mind me asking why you don't want me doing these because this is our new growth. This is how we verify that we have the right assessments on these. So for you guys to say that you don't want us to go in there, >> we might not be on a different page. >> Okay, let's >> I'm just going from the last meeting.

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>> No, I understand. I'll just go back and one one comment I just follow what Luba said. So do you think what is the um reasoning behind is it more that he wants to get more digitally >> I can't speak for the inspector you know

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but I mean it it makes sense to me that the assess is not on the requirement for the CEO and it makes apparently it makes sense to him as an inspector. >> Yeah. um you know makes sense to Jimmy you know >> well well >> that part we know we can't legally be

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um required >> okay but it could impact how we do our assessments and get the true valuations a fair assessment right >> I I think I don't think so to be honest

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>> okay >> um I think I think we need to like hash it out Yeah, >> I'm I'm malleable. I want you. [laughter] >> No, I I just find it odd like that. I've been doing it for so long. I did it in my other town as well. I've been doing

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this for 15 years going in on them. So, but you kept saying that it's illegal for us to do that. It's not illegal for us to do that. It's not. As long >> it is to >> if the occupancy is not issued because of lack of a signature. That's illegal. >> He would know that has never ever been

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held up. if I don't sign something, they never they never hold that up. Um, and I've actually a couple weeks ago somebody came in and I couldn't get out there. I signed off. I said, "Yeah, I can't get out there, so go get your CO." Like he he would I've never had one of the building inspectors stop one

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>> because of my signage wasn't on there. That's never happened that I'm that I'm aware of. >> Um, it's never come up to me. No one's ever came to me and said, "They're not going to give it to me unless you sign off." So because I always explain to the builders what I'm doing and they have no problem with I'm just I'm just out there to confirm all the information. So when

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I built the home that have gotten big problems with it. >> When actually there are some that have got big problems with it, but that's >> when I when I built the home on when I recently built a home on Charlotte A, >> you were required to come out and do an interior inspection on that home before

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we would get our co released. And and actually the homeowner asked me to be present at that meeting, which I didn't, you know, don't know why, but you held up that CO until we got a interior inspection. I can H hold it up. If you said no, you're not coming out. I I would have said okay. I

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didn't hold up until my certificate of occupancy on 29 shallow. >> No, I didn't. You did until the homeowner actually called me and says, I can't get my CO. Would you be present for the meeting? >> I never talked to How long ago was that? >> Last May. >> I thought that was 38 Charlotte.

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>> 38. Yeah. 29. I build 29 Charlotte, too. >> 38. 38. Nobody ever asked me about that cuz I would have said, you know, if you don't want me out there, it's his house. >> Well, he didn't feel comfortable with you coming out and you guys had already done a a prior inspection while we were working, which again, that was a problem I had because I don't feel like the

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assessor should be walking on to an active job site, you know, especially unannounced, but you know, I see no reason. It's a it's a >> Well, we have to walk on to active job sites so that we can confirm the the percentage that's complete. >> You have to make an appointment first. >> No, we don't have to make an appointment first. We don't have to make an

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appointment to go out for new construction. No, we don't. We don't have to do that. We have our list. >> That's a question we need to >> So, who's liability? Who's liable if you get injured on the job site? >> Okay. Let me ask you what who is what happens if the building if the building inspector gets hurt or one of the fire?

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>> So, the building inspector is required on CEO and the building inspector. >> They're they're insured for the town though. So, what you're saying is I'm not insured. I am I'm just like everybody else in this town. Just like the fire, police, DPW, I'm insured just like all those. I am required to go out

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to these homes. My one of my staff members are we're all insured. If I get hurt, it's on the town, >> you know. >> Okay. So, maybe let's back this up to fair assessment, right? >> Correct. Um, >> exactly. >> So, we talked about I think one of your

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emails to us was talking about um water type uh the percentage. >> Yep. you know, maybe to elaborate on that. Um, you know, okay. >> I don't know if you saw that, but it >> Well, we're getting I'm just trying No, no, no. I'm trying to keep something straight in my head cuz I had asked you

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to put three items on the agenda, >> right? Well, >> and I don't know where we're at, but we're new to the standards, I think. >> Certification, a certification of standards for inspections. So, >> but that's not one of the it so I asked

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you didn't end up on the agenda. Yes, they are. Where? Court of assessor's policies. I didn't I didn't want >> They're on there. I just didn't. >> So, this overlaps, that's all right. >> It does, which is correct, which is it's right. I just want to take it in sequence um because just from the most

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recent meeting we had um and Denise's um she wasn't here. She was out um in at a seminar. So, I just want to >> not a deep criticism. >> Yeah. You've really made this a lot harder by doing it this way. >> Well, >> because it's not compartmentalized and

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we're going to be all over the place. It's going to be hard to get to the bottom of anything. >> Okay. Well, >> but you can interject when you need to. We'll figure it out. >> Um, >> but I thought this was important that you know from our last meeting. >> Can we establish one thing?

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>> Yeah. >> We cannot go into the interior of any building ever without permission. >> Correct. >> Okay. which means and that's trying to >> residential commercial. >> Well, I think one of the things that's

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happening here is things are being said by all of us. I I'll include myself. >> Mhm. >> Things are being said and there's not enough specificity. We're getting misunderstood all over the place is what I'm seeing. >> And I could be misunderstanding you,

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too. That's that's >> So, okay. Which means yes, we've got to go out and look look at things. However, we cannot go inside ever without an appointment and permission. >> Correct.

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>> Do you agree? >> Yeah. I don't go in unless they let So, if I go to a new construction, the guys are out there and I say who I am. Is it okay if I go in? >> They can't allow you in. >> Well, they do. So, >> yeah, but they can't. They're not the owner. >> So, you >> Who's the owner? >> The You have to make contact with the

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owner of the property to get permission. Okay. So, it's very rare that I do go in because usually I don't. But so, um, so let me just explain to you what I do cuz I think it confuses one thing >> that would fall more. >> We were trying to talk about it, >> I guess, in the abstract

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>> without any I I hope you've noticed. I haven't said you've done anything or not done anything and I'm trying to make sure because I think we can have a productive conversation. >> Sure. Definitely. >> You know what I mean? >> Yep. >> So, I I just wanted to reiterate I'm not accusing you of anything. We're just talking about how we could do things.

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I hope that helps. >> Yeah. No, if you I can explain to you what I do because I don't think you guys understand what I do when I do my inspections. I think that's where the confusion lies, right? So, I think it is because under this whenever somebody whenever

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there's new whenever permits are pulled, >> I need to go out there or my staff member does. I do all the new construction in the big additions. That's what I do. >> So, I have to go out there. I measure the house, take pictures inside row. If I get in with, you know, an appointment, that's what I do. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, that's what we do.

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>> Now, on that one, um, and I don't know who it was, I'm not accusing anybody, but I know on my job sites, assessors have gone in without my permission, and I need to tell you, I have been furious about it because I don't care if you're

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insured or not. I don't want anybody on one of my job sites. And and actually uh I'm not sure about that one. >> But but why though? >> I'm just curious like why

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>> wouldn't you want the assessment to be accurate? Wouldn't you want the person buying your house to make sure that their assessment is accurate and not >> one question I got. Why would you have to measure if you got a set of certified plans that have been approved? >> Because they're not always correct. So I've been to houses and they've changed And that's an issue between the building

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department. If if if someone needs to make a change, the building official makes us do an amended set of plans or we have to make an amendment to the plans. We can't just make a change on the whim without getting the plans changed or making an amendment to the ch to the plans. >> I I guess to get back to it, um we don't

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>> and I don't want to be combative, but if somebody doesn't want us in there, it doesn't matter what their reason is. I'm just curious as a builder. Like I don't care about the homeowners. I'm just curious as a builder. You're building a home and you're going to be selling that home. So

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why do you care if I'm in that house or not? >> I don't want anybody in there. I don't want to say you want to walk around. I'm going to throw you out. >> So that's my question. I'm just curious why. >> It's a workplace. We're trying to get work done. We don't want to be interfered by anybody. >> The assessors are in and out of there in

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2 minutes. >> They're not >> Well, I don't know what assessor you work. I'm in and out in like 5 minutes. No, no. I don't want them in at all. >> I don't want salesmen in at all. >> We have like people show up. I'll come back to the job. There's a guy in there measuring it for installation

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>> out. Inspectors in there unless he's got an appointment. >> Correct. >> I understand that. >> I've had a I've had inspectors show up on my job site and I didn't request an inspection and I've had I've had issues with >> No, I without all this. >> Right. I understand. I understand

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exactly where you're coming from because we're in the business. >> You've been there, >> right? >> I'm sure you've been in walking around and somebody's showed up and said, [clears throat] >> "How often does that happen?" >> But but that's not the issue. The issue is >> permission from the property owner in

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advance with an appointment. That should be the standard. >> I >> That's the legal standard. >> When we're outside doing just exterior, we don't exterior exterior. >> No, talk about interior. >> Yeah. And that's very rare that we would go in some place. Like I usually when I

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go out there it's very rare. >> And that's fine. I'm just trying to establish that that needs to be the standard. >> Oh, it is a standard. >> Not saying anything's wrong. >> And that is a standard. >> Okay. I agree. I I think that you should have an appointment if you're going into the property, but an exterior extension,

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an inspection or assessment, >> you know. I don't >> No. No. We we have >> exterior we have the right to >> right >> measure and what have you. Um, right. >> But to what Lucas was saying, um,

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>> I guess the builders when someone like, um, a national company, right, on Pine Street Bolts, they'll have they'll excavate for 40 homes or, you know, whatever. And don't they, it's basically

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cookie cutter. They have three or four different designs, right? >> Yes. No. >> Yes. They submit for each project and they follow that plan. >> No, they don't. Not over there. >> That's an issue for the building. >> Yeah, I think to be honest with you, I think that um >> and I've actually and I actually

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mentioned that to the building inspector the other day. I did speak to him on one of my finals and I said, you know, about you know where you had said Denise where you know the plans don't follow the the final product and he said not on my watch. He says you know if a builder is going to make changes he needs to amend

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the plans. So you can't say, "Oh, we're not going to finish the basement and then finish the basement and throw a, you know, curveball the assessor." If if you say there's no finished basement, there's no finished basement. You want to finish it, you got to amend the plans, right? >> Well, you got to you got to revive because what happens is you got to

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revise your plan so that the town can then say, "Okay, what how much is it going to be to finish that basement now? Oh, there's another 50,000. It's all about money." The town going to say, "Well, now you owe us another $10 per thousand." >> But also at this point, we're basically accusing the building part of them and not doing that. That's not That's not

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what I'm talking about. So, there's a certain house over there. There's four or five different option. Like, some of these houses have different options. So, those aren't >> redone. Like, we don't know what those options are until we go out there. And I've already talked to the building inspector. >> It's on record.

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>> No, it's not cuz they send over at the plans and there's four different plans to go with it. And we don't know which one it is until I go out there and all the ones I go out to aren't the original plan. >> They can't get a buildup of it that way. >> Well, that's what they're doing. not supposed to. That's on the build inspector.

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>> That's all the It's the upgrades, >> right? >> It's considered the upgrades to those houses. >> So, again, Denise is talking about new growth, how to capture new growth, >> and there is a vapor zone there that doesn't tie in until

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>> later. So, you know, I think there are some and it's not I'm not pointing it's not the building department's fault. It's just how business is conducted and and it's not how it's conducted. >> So, just to let you know, like >> we're in the business. I do that stuff. >> But the other thing that we do, you

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know, we're not the building department. We're the CES. We're completely different. So, we get the plans. We go out every spring to do them. I go through all the plans that I have. I get them all set and then we just go out. We're not looking every day. I can't we don't have the time to go to the building department onto the open gov

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every day and see if there's any um any revisions or anything that's a process >> you just do it at the end of the project >> and you can ask the build inspect >> but I've already been out there so that's not going to help me at all I mean I've already had all that to your point I know what you're saying >> but think about it

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>> I've thought about it you're just plain wrong you cannot do it that way >> I >> and it's not how the business works >> so 40 homes go up um >> they go up one at a time, one permit at a time with accurate plans for each house. >> Well, but the assessments can't because they they'll do five or six homes with

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excavation, go in and build the foundation, right? >> Yeah. They're putting up more than one at a time there. >> They need correct a permit for each one. Correct. >> And the permit has to have accurate plans attached to it. >> Correct. >> So there's no ambiguity. >> None. >> But how does the building department

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capture? They can only do and deal with the present. Correct. In other words, um there's let's call it 42 46 48 uh Lloyd Circle. Okay.

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>> Um 42 is 3500 square ft on a on a on a piece of paper drawing. >> Uh 46 is uh >> stick with one. Yeah, just stick with one. So 3500 ft, >> right? >> Cannot be changed without amending the plans. >> Correct.

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>> So on open gov, what shows there is what's being built there. Correct. Okay. To the point to to the point the assessor's point is they're not built in sequence or at the same time. No, but it

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doesn't matter. But when he's assessing the property >> as as is at the date of the inspection >> when it happens. >> So So let's say your point. So, that one particular house that we can go with,

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right? There's, like I said, there's probably like four different plans. They send everything over together and then I have to go figure out which one they're doing. And I've already, like I said before, I already talked to the building inspector about it. And I don't know. I I can't tell you what the building department does. It's a totally

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different. >> I've had to look into it, but that that can't happen. >> No, it doesn't. >> Well, it does. And I've already and I spoke to the building department about this exact issue and he he specifically told me that that's not the way it's it's operating. >> I I I read your email and I talked to

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him last week. >> I don't want to comment without actually like researching it. I don't want >> either way. It doesn't really matter. I still have to go out there and inspect it. So it doesn't really matter what the dimensions are because I still it's required for me by the state. But you

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don't have to go inside the homes even even at the final when the home is built. You do not need to go inside the homes and sign the seal. Not every town does it. >> But what we do have to do >> is try is what we have to try. >> Exactly. We have to try.

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>> You can ask the owner. They can deny you entry and then you cannot hold up the >> Okay. And I never would do that. I guess what I'm trying to get at and would have been a lot easier if it was categorized. [snorts]

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>> That's why I made a little bit jumping all over the Thanksg though. >> So, >> just as an overview, we have to try to get inside. >> Correct. >> Doesn't matter if we agree with that or not. We have to try to get inside.

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That's >> the rule. And we have to accept >> there's two ways to get inside. >> There's the nice way and there's the hard way. >> And for years and I'm going to say I'm going to say this goes back before your

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time. How's that? Does that help? [laughter] >> I'm fine. Whatever way you want to do it. I remember being told in 1996 by an assessor that if they weren't allowed in, they would assume that I had goldplated

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faucets and run my appraisal up through the roof. >> We have to assume what's we have to guess what's in there. >> But that was what I was told. You have to let us in, otherwise we're going to get you. >> Well, I would. What I said was, "Guess

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what? I do have goldplated faucets. Beat it. What I'm saying is I don't know about the people that voted for you, but the people that voted for me want to see a different approach."

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That's what I've heard, >> okay? >> Here, there, and everywhere. And I honestly think that we could get better cooperation if we're nice. I I think >> we are very nice to my office. Is that what you're saying?

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>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's what it sounded like. >> I'm not making any comment on how things are done. I'm trying to establish how we should do things. that's without any

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>> perhaps we could be more um I've always said you know use I'm not necessarily I know social media but more than the town website more pages. >> Okay. you you and I talked about this

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um somewhat um and I had sent you an email um you were you were on vacation which it I'm and it was already halfway through so no harm >> over the cyclical yeah there was already

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halfway through the process I'm not I'm not pointing any fingers >> but what I'm looking at is let's say in the future say next year when >> is it PK? >> Yep. >> Okay. When they come in, if we were to develop a statement to put out

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everywhere we can and say, "Look, if you live on one of these streets, we're going to be there." Um, we need to be there because the state says we have to every 10 years and explain it to them. Sure. >> And then say, um, the cars will look something like this. They'll have I don't know if they have a magnetic sign,

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but whatever we can tell them. >> Yep. and then say by law we have to ask you to come in. >> Sure. >> Um I our our goal is to just be accurate whether you let us in or not you will not be penal and I guess in a way that

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>> Sure. We could do something like that. Absolutely. >> And I think we might get better cooperation by >> doing it that way. >> Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. We can do that. >> No problem at all. >> That that's where I'm coming from. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. No, we usually put them.

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They're usually the streets are usually up on the website. I don't know how they didn't get up there this year, right? The website's been kind of a crazy thing. >> No, I know that's in transition. >> Yeah, >> but that's a good point. And again, I realize >> now we have the town website that they use. Um I don't do social media, but

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they can we can definitely put it on the town website that they're using now. So, and I think they did put that up afterwards. Ah, >> yeah. >> But if we if we get it early, we can get the word out there and >> sure, >> we can help. >> Yeah, I [laughter] agree.

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>> So, we all agree that we could do better than than what we're doing as far as getting the customer. >> I'd rather say it's a good way to do it, [laughter] not make any comparison. I don't think putting the information on the blanking billboard out front here in

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the town dated website or an ad in the Sun Chronicle no one reads. I don't think that's a good way to reach the people. You know, there's 20,000 res. >> It should be there. But you're right. Some of the like Facebook groups are going to get a lot more exposure. But

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the big thing would be a statement we all agree on and we put out. >> I think we all agree that we could do more public relations always improve it. >> Move forward with the customers, customer friendly and I agree with you that you know um it's got to be

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established that it's not to be something that has to be a bad experience for them. >> I also don't think we should be walking in someone's yard without an appointment. >> I think we have to. >> Yeah. >> I think I I just >> from what I'm reading here, I think they

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don't come to my yard. So, you know, and they won't and you know, they didn't come in my father's yard. I don't think we should just be walking on people's property, though. >> Well, would maybe a public a public like Jim said that we'll be a little bit more proactive

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>> and saying, "Hey, these are the streets. This is the what we're doing in the next." That one, from what I'm reading, the law is pretty clear that we we need to measure >> and um >> we we don't need an appointment or

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permission outside. >> If it's a fence, we would never go in the if it's a fence, we would never go through the fence. >> I wouldn't [laughter] dog in there. >> I'm no kidding, right? Um if there's no trespassing signs, we don't no trespass. They might go in the door and just ring the bell. Like I have to do that for

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permits, but it depends. depends on the house. It depends how it's set up. If it's a long driveway, it says no trespassing. Don't usually get down there unless it's an addition or something and we have to um but we wouldn't like necessarily walk. It's those things are kind of iffy. We don't usually go if it's a no

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trespassing unless >> well in this case we're talking about the cyclical. They won't say no trespassing. >> Those guys are they're doing it everywhere. I'm guessing >> Oh, they're in they're everywhere. They're in every town. They take turns every week they're somewhere else or

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every month depending how long it takes in a town. >> I'm guessing they're like Kyrie possessors. They're very friendly and nice and careful and >> Yep. They PK they have really nice employees. >> So Jim, you made the statement. I'm going to follow up. What what is you know quote your your people that elected

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you? What were they expecting or what were they are expecting? They want to see a friendly approach and and one that gives them all the respect in the world. And and I think I think we could

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um get better cooperation from people using that method. >> Examples, I mean, anything you can >> Well, like the statement I just said, you know, if if you live on any of these streets, we're going to be there. And then I think it's important to say the

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state requires us to be there. Yeah. >> Because that and I think I stood up at town meeting on the veterans thing and said I think it's um what was it the um >> guy stood up and said he couldn't get an exemption >> because we hadn't passed that what we passed at that.

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So I thought it was important. I got up at town meeting and said look >> this wasn't us. >> The state says we have to do it a certain way. the states the state requires us to send a tax bill or assess this person and only by adopting this we

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could change this wasn't us right >> and I think I think we can get a long ways if we tell people either say this isn't us or say this is what the state requires us to do um if we go out and

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say we have a right to do this then their backs up >> and also if somebody if somebody doesn't let you in, I think the assessors need to assume a fair or a good condition home inside and not, you know, assume

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goldplated faucets like Jim said. So, you know, and if you know, if the house turns out to be, you know, a junkyard inside, then they can let us in. >> We can then see >> that's yeah, that's another one. Um, if we let people know, look, our

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assumptions are going to be that your house is decent and normal. If your house is a wreck, please invite us in. We'll give you a break. >> Well, no, we want to be um >> normally when they do, >> we have to be serious. And what I'm saying, >> do you have do you have any numbers um

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that state how many uh >> rejections, not rejections, but people that don't let us in? No, they used to do that, but they don't they don't really keep track anymore because it's not really required. But, you know, when when they're doing the cyclical inspection, they're I mean, if they

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don't get in, I highly doubt they're I haven't seen them anyway that they're increasing anything. Like, if they're not getting in and the house is at average, they're not changing that to like good. You know, maybe the outside they might if they can see that it's all new windows, siding, and roof, they might change that, but they're not going

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to change the inside if they haven't gotten in. The only time that would happen going to make the assumption that the inside is in good order. It's decent. >> No. No, they won't. They'll just leave it at average because the only time average. >> Yeah. >> So, your house always starts at average

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and then we start increasing the interior or the exterior as they're pulling permits, >> right? So, that's how we see it. Um, so if there out there for the cyclical when there aren't any permits pulled for anything, they're not going to assume the inside's in good condition because the outside's in good condition.

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>> 500 properties a year. Well, more than that usually. I mean, this year they did 500, but sometimes it's up to a thousand. Depends how far. No, they're out there. But >> they're not fine tooth combing anybody. >> No, they're just measuring, checking the outside, making sure the measurements are right. Um, but they're not going to

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assume that the outside's nice, that the inside's nice. They're not going to do that. And we only do that if we can't get in. So, if somebody pulls a permit for a kitchen and they don't let us in, well, we're going to upgrade that kitchen no matter what. Even if they say it's not done, we're gonna upgrade it because that's what the permit says. So,

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and we don't know what's done. Was it gutted? We don't know. So, that's why they should let us in so that we can No, because a lot of times people do bathroom. A lot of times people do bathrooms when we go in. I'm like, you only replace the shower. They're like, yeah. I'm like, oh, I'm not changing anything. I'll just leave it the way it is.

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>> So, that's why it's important. And honestly, when we get in, we probably take down more assessments than we do bring than we bring them up, >> you know. Um, >> I mean, I've been doing this work for 25 years. >> Is there any It was 15 10 minutes ago. I know. I know. I'm a certified appraiser

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for 25 years. [laughter] I've been in the towns for 15. >> What would you like to see in the next 90 days? 30, 60, 90 days. As far as the board um getting out to the public, what would you how would you want to achieve? >> I mean, I think having the board have

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its own um Facebook page would be good. you know, that way it reaches out to, you know, and maybe I don't run it. >> I got my own I got my own. Listen, I'm not gonna if I have something to say on social media, I know you guys don't like it. I don't care. I'm going to say what

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I'm going to say. I'm not sitting here because I care what people think. So, if I have something to say, I say it. I'll say it on my own. I'll say it on my own social media or my own. But if the if the board had a social media page then

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we could refer to and then like Jim says, "Oh, we're going to do that. How do you moni How do you approve it and how do you make sure it's checks?" >> We approve it as a board and we say here's what we're going to post and then here's what it's going to say and then nobody goes wrong.

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>> Well, I guess the way to do it would be whoever is the chairman at the time would be the one that would make the post. Same as like you sign documents. Not all of them require all three signatures. Some of them are just the chairman's signature. >> So

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>> the chairman goes rogue and post things on his own. We just remove them. >> So what would itself >> that would be just for the board's information to not for you know me or you or Jim to go complain about you know

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>> issues. What would be any downside to that? I I'm trying to think. Only downside I could think of would be if the chairman just started doing things on his or her own. >> No, I don't see that. >> No, I don't think it would happen either. For it the next meeting, you're not the

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chairman anymore. We fix that. So, I think it would be fine. >> I'm thinking of um more compliance or you know, does the town need to get involved with setting a Facebook page for the board? I mean, I

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don't know. I don't think so. Pretty much every department's got one. >> Okay. >> Police got one, fire's got one, highway's got one, everybody's >> and then before you know something gets posted, we just sit and we agree and say, "Okay, that looks like a good post. We should

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>> do a cyclical inspection. We'll say on these streets." >> Yep. >> It's not a complaining page. It's more information >> that if it's Yeah. if it's facts and information opposed to being um you know subjective and you know I I couldn't

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>> it's informationational only that's the point >> yeah I mean because you know how Facebook can run >> that's fine but you know is if it's facts only and we're being informationational that way we can post it to the town then you know it's you know if someone on the board's got a

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gripe and wants to make their own complaint they can go on a different Facebook group not use the board's group as you know and I don't even care if you control it. I don't want to control it but we all agree. You know this >> it has to be an agreement. It has to be to me >> nobody wants you to track [laughter]

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it. Well I'm I'm just saying I I to me I think I guess this is the age of social media I guess but you know my first pass would be >> well I guess the other thing might be >> whatever announcement we put out put it out there. I don't know. What do you

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think? Put it out there with the comment shut off. >> Yeah. >> So, we're only making an announcement. We're only interacting. >> There's 20,000 plus residents on social media between the three major groups. That's the best way to get the information out there is. And then if you want to post it and shut off comments so there's no complainers,

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that's that's even better. That's a great idea. You know, that way, you know, you just put the information out there. Here's the streets we're working on. Here's where it be and shut off comments. That's it. >> That may be something that I don't know. I feel >> and then you know if if the comments are shut off nobody's going to go back and

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forth. They're not going to be you know squawking about us and we're not going to be responding. >> Well, somebody will repost it and make their own comment section. Can't avoid that. But >> you can't I mean you can't avoid that. That's different. >> All right. Well, so that's what you you would like to see that in the next 90 days >> just for moreformational for the for the

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res. Yes. >> Doesn't have to be in 90 days. I mean >> a third I'm just thinking >> I mean it's it could be a very long time. It could be a year before we have to say anything. [snorts] >> I'm just trying to get it, you know. >> Well, I mean, it's probably not a bad thing because we could put out there that, you know, the exemptions are

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ready, you know, things like that. >> Yeah. >> You know. >> Oh, actually, you know what? >> I don't do social media, so I can't set up. I don't really >> We probably should put out like when abatement season starts or stuff like that. Something like that. >> I mean, it's probably not a bad thing.

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>> Tax reclassification hearing coming up. >> Yep. Yep. I mean there's a lot of information >> that's done in the website >> y >> because if people are aware they're less likely to be >> well right angry well >> usually angry people are uninformed people

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>> well the more information you get buy in that's that's just automatic that if you can get people to be informed because that gives them um they're not caught um you know surprised or flatooted they they'll buy into and if they have a

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question they would reach out to you, you or me, and then it can be that way the information. So >> at first pass, yeah, I mean social media, but I get what you're saying. You can I'm cool. >> That's what you were asking. I have to update it because that I haven't updated

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this in years and they changed a couple of dates. >> Um but I'll update it. I found it this morning, >> so I'll update it, >> clean it up, and get it back out to you guys. >> But can have that for now. That's the um >> Sorry to be the new member that asked a million questions. Oh, I'm glad you're asking questions. That's good. You

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should be. >> So, uh, where are we at with the codes? >> So, um, so I think we already Well, by vote, right? We already had the vote last meeting. >> I'm talking about the codes for the property card codes that we >> Oh, as soon as the website's all set,

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then we're putting them up. I can't touch this website. I can't do anything. >> So, and once they launch the new website, then we can put it up. >> I have it all ready to go. I just can't do anything yet >> cuz that's they're what rewriting it >> the website.

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>> Yeah. >> Oh yeah. It's been I guess I don't know month. Anyways, >> so I just like to get a copy of that. If you can email me a copy of that or email Jim a copy of the codes. So >> yep, >> even if it's not on the website,

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>> I'll send it to all of you. >> Yeah, because it probably be helpful if you might know what the codes are, but I There's some of them. >> No, I have to look at most of them myself. Some of them because you don't see them all the time. >> I'll admit when we went through the the

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course, they've got all this stuff and I'm like, I'll look that up when I need it. >> Yeah. And every software has different codes. So, like if you might might be in a different town, their codes might be different, you know? I mean, some of them are similar, but they're different because of different software.

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>> Okay. So, um, to your point, we're a little bit going back and forth, but where we at, >> right? Well, I think I think to keep it open. >> Yep. >> Um, >> for Denise's point, she wasn't here last time and um >> Oh, I we we spoke pretty much going back

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and forth on the CO and >> yeah, >> I think we've kind of now beyond that, right? We've >> accepted the votes and we're going to go move forward. I mean, I think we should present something to the building inspector. >> We are right.

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>> Yeah. You signing off. >> Um, >> and then at the same the only thing it does shift it and I understand where you're coming from. It's easier that way. It shifts it to we need at every sale to send out a letter or something. >> Mhm. We do we do that anyway, but we try

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to, you know, if we don't have to get out, we always like doing it this way so we have to if we don't have to bother a new homeowner, it's easier on them. That's why we like to do it at this time. >> Otherwise, then we have to bother them. They just bought the house. Then we have to be back out there and they're like, "Weren't you just out here?" Well, no,

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not actually. We weren't inside. So, >> it just makes it easier for our office to do it. >> No, I I understand that. Um, >> and it's more accurate that way, too. >> Well, the other thing we still do have >> is we we have new house. It's done. It's

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finished. Um, the new owner says, "I don't want you in there." We're not going to get everything, but we stop by, see the building inspector, and say, "What did you see? >> He's been there. Who can tell us?" >> So, for us, it's all about the quality

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of construction, which is very important because that's telling us what the house is valued at, you know. So, somebody's doing all these upgrades, you know, you have your Viking, you know, appliances and your top-notch cabinets and all that stuff. That makes a difference. I mean, we'll see that in the sales price, but

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if we know that ahead of time instead of changing it afterwards, that's another important reason to get in there so we can see what's going on. >> I would agree with that. >> But if we can't get in there and all of a sudden we have it wrong and then we're looking at the sale price and things, then we have to go back and change everything.

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>> You've got a house that sold for 1.4 million >> and it has all kinds of upgrades. >> Mhm. >> We don't get in. we that changes our square foot price upwards quite a bit because we're not accounting for upgrades and it raises

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everybody else. In other words, if we you take the 1.4 and say, well, there's 200,000 in upgrades now it's 1.2 divided by the square foot and that's a rough approximation. So,

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okay. So, 1.4 200,000 in upgrades. We don't get in so we assume there's no upgrades. Now we take 1.4 divided by how many square feet and that's how many dollars per square feet square foot. >> Okay. >> And now that affects everybody else. But

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if we take the 1.4 subtract the 200 because those were upgraded. >> Well, it doesn't necessarily Okay. >> Now the the the base price is 1.2 divided by the square footage. >> Is that you following what I'm saying? >> Yeah. I don't know. I wouldn't look at it that way. Um

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>> Well, I'm looking at how the software is going to adjust it. It doesn't um necessarily mean that um it's going to affect everybody else. You talking about all the other new construction, you mean or all the other houses and put all the new construction in as required. >> Yep.

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>> And I think do we have to do a certain >> Oh, that would be in the cyclical inspection. Those get inputed in >> like >> into the software. >> Um if there's Yeah, we just note that we're out there. Um, >> but it's all there's all numbers, new

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numbers or whatever or the old numbers still go back in >> the only if there's any changes, >> right? But what I'm saying is the software sees this one/10enth required input which some might not be any changes. >> Mhm. >> But that's input in. It could be no

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change. It could be up, down, or whatever. And then there's new construction that goes in. That's like the input section of the software. >> Okay. And then there's 90% that the software automatically throws numbers at to a small degree, whatever degree based on what we input.

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>> Not necessarily. No. So what we're doing is when we're there's more than that cuz what they're cuz you're saying that the new construction might affect everybody else in town. >> Well, there's 9year-old data out here somewhere. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So the software has to keep bringing

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that up because otherwise when it comes to the cyclical inspection we're not doing it by new construction though. That's all about the sales data. >> So when we're looking at values and the values go up every year that's because of the market. That's totally different

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than new construction. >> But but new construction is a part of it because new construction gets sold, >> right? But that stays with the new houses because of the age of the house and all of that. Um, so >> well I I guess what I'm saying though is

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the sales and the new construction because it's sales. >> That's all stuff that the software sees that it talks to the rest of it. >> We put it all in there. But >> because we can't look at 6,000 houses >> No. So yeah, that's why we have the codes. >> We can't even look at 600. We have to

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hire somebody. >> Exactly. Um, we Yeah. So once you know once the sales come in, we look at all the sales, right? And then so we start to quantify them. So we're looking at >> that's so we're looking at the colonial. >> If we quantify them wrong, it affects

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the rest in a way. >> It could. It could. But there we do a lot. Like when we're quantifying them, we're doing them >> right. Exactly. You got to find number. >> We can't get it right. Right. It's not even possible. >> So when we're quantifying, we quantify them in a bunch of different ways. Um

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once we start, you know, we'll go and look at now the colonials. What are the colonials doing in that neighborhood? what how old are those colonials? Like we have to look at all the different ages, all the different square footage, um all the different factors that are involved, you know. So,

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>> and those sales are what we're looking at and they >> and factors we're missing >> affects our accuracy. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Right. So, that's why it's important to get into these homes um to make sure

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that we have everything accurate because we don't want to over assess anybody. I mean, everybody's taxes are high. I mean, where I live, my taxes are high. I don't want anybody over assessing me either. So, I mean, we want to be as honest as we can. So, if we can get in and eight years ago, some guy ran

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for president on the taxes are too damn high party. He called it. But so I think what Denise was saying if if there's a lot of home sales [clears throat] for four bedroomedroom 2 and a half bath colonials that can drive

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>> Oh absolutely with the way the sales are going versus a ranch home. >> That's am I right? >> Yeah. Could be. So every year that's always been so whatever right. So whatever the trend or not trend in actuality >> I've been valuing houses for 35 years.

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If I don't know what a house is worth, I'm going to go out of business because I have to put a million dollars into a project and if it's only worth $900,000, right, >> I'm out of business. They got to know. >> And

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I think it's more complicated now than it was 30. 30 years ago, you could just drive by and say that raised ranch is worth that, that one's worth that. I mean, you could >> not these days. You don't >> It's much more complicated now. >> Yep. The way the market's going, it's

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been crazy. >> And now we don't have raised ranches and colonials. Now we've got all kinds of architecture. >> Yeah. >> They It's hard to put a >> But new growth is a important part of your job. >> Oh, yeah. Well,

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>> and the assessment and >> because the new growth is part of the budget. So, you know, >> we uh we're going to get that new growth in. >> So, but I I um you know, just from our discussion now, I mean, do you are you in agreement that

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do we have to follow new growth, try to get new growth the best we can and track it? Are you in agree with that? >> I would take exception. I'm more concerned with assessing properties fairly and not >> concerned with the budget and the and the new growth numbers and worrying

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about other departments and their issues with the budget cuz you know I think I don't you know if the home's worth a million dollars it's worth a million dollars. I don't think well we need a million one to make that work so we can make the budget work. >> That's their problem. The budget's not our problem.

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>> Well I would hope that's not >> No, I don't think that I hope not. That's not happen. I think the sale would be >> the sale. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> New growth that comes. >> Yeah. >> We certainly take it in >> right. >> But I don't believe we should aggressively

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be trying to get it. >> Yeah, I agree. >> You know, >> and at the end of the day, it's really the sale price. >> What do you mean by aggressive? >> It hasn't always been the sale price. >> Um, it should I mean, we could change the sale price and and >> we have to the sale price. No, but I

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mean trying to >> what? Lucas, go ahead. >> So, I think the sale price should be the you know the the the guideline and you know we already had this discussion and I understand commercial is different but we got commercial properties that sell

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you know 72 million valued at 64 million. I feel like the sale price should be the the benchmark. when we go back to the residential, [snorts] you know, we already had this discussion at one of our abatement um for the abatements, you know, there was a home that sold and a year and a half later it

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was valued $270,000 higher it, you know, and we ended up approving an abatement on that property. So, the sale price is the benchmark. You know, that home shouldn't be 9 months later valued, you know, $270,000. >> Question on that, though.

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Um, could that be a function of the software? >> It could. Well, it's a couple of different things. So, the sale price is only the sale price for that one year and it can it could be an increase after that, >> but we don't input it.

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>> No. So, no, it it's part it's so like you know, so if they're seeing all these that was the thing I wanted to bring up. >> So, they're seeing all those colonial that's what I was saying at the last meeting. >> We input all the sales. Yeah. And now the software says colonials are worth a lot more money than they were last year

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in the software, >> right? >> That would be I don't completely agree that it's the software that increases valuations when you got some homes that go up or don't even go up and then some homes that go

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up 25 30% in in a year. So that's quantifying that's when quantifying comes in though looking at the neighborhoods. That's when you know the computer's not bumping up home% changes. >> It's not happening. So, one guy goes up 3%, one guy one guy goes up 25%. That's

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somebody's going in there and putting the finger on the scale. And I got my opinions to that. But, you know, the computer is not pushing up homes 25%. Well, the town average is 5 to 8%. So, why this guy go up 20 25%. The home I was just referencing saw a massive spike

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almost 20% increase 22% in one year. But the sale price the year prior, you know, should have been the benchmark. Yeah. Okay. So maybe the market goes up. He goes up, you know, three or 5%. He shouldn't have gone up 20%. And that's why we approved and baiten on that property. So and what did we do? We

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brought it back to the sale price, >> right? And it's only that's only good for one year and that's it. Because like we just said that like if you if those colonials are going up 20%, it's going to hit that person no matter who it is. >> Okay. But we don't do it. Well, it goes into the software into all the code

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that's saying and and there's always outliers, you know, it does happen. Um, and we do try to catch those and see what's going on. But last year was kind of crazy with the things going on, but there are always outliers that could happen because of situations like that, especially in the higherend homes

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because we don't, you know, it's hard to say. >> Mhm. >> But yeah, we do take a look. >> Well, I guess the the big thing I'm saying, so we don't go in and say, I think that house is more than >> Oh, god. Absolutely not. No, we would never do anything like that. We review the sales. I review the sales. My staff

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member reviews the sales. So, like we'll go on MLS, um, you know, live real, do homecom, whatever. And we'll take a look at those homes if we can't get in. I mean, we do both. If we can get in, that's great cuz I don't like looking at the pictures. I don't think they're accurate because you have professional photographers doing them now, right? So,

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I don't like doing that, but so we try to read what, you know, what are the upgrades? That's what we look for. Oh, they upgraded the kitchen, the bath, the heating systems. So, we go by that stuff. That's the only time we would change anything without actually going to the home because we we that's what we have to do. We don't chase sales is what

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you're saying. We don't >> So, you you're taking the position that you don't make any manual changes to valuations on on residential homes in town and that everything is computered through the computer. >> No, it's not what I said. I I just said we are looking at all the pictures. If we can't get in, we do make changes. If

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we get in and we find things have changed, we'll make those changes on those houses that we're in. And for the sales, if we see those changes on like MLS and they're saying that they're upgraded, but we don't have the upgrades, then we will make those changes. >> And a home that doesn't have any hasn't

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had any upgrades in several years. You know, you can manually go in and make changes to that home. >> No, we would never do that. Not if there's no reason to get into that house. >> I've lived it. I've been living it for the last >> We would never just go in and change something. >> 100% you do. 100% myself. The guy on Reservoir Street.

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>> I've never went in Me and Wing and changed anything on yours. You pulled permits for everything. I don't know what you're talking about. >> I'm not going to get into my property on. But I've already made I've already proven that you guys manually go in and make adjustments. >> We don't. >> Yes, you do. 100%. How does a home go up

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25 27% in a year when the market says, "Okay, the homes went up 5%." Well, this guy's home went down. You know, the market on average the home goes up five or 8%. So why is this guy going up three times the rate in town? >> And not every big home, not every

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valuable home is going up at the same rate. >> So one of the things that um we talked about last meeting and um and it's actually on the agenda down the road here is >> I got no idea where it is. [laughter]

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Well, both you mentioned about um detached properties >> and and let's >> Right. >> Don't jump to Don't jump ahead. >> Well, I'm [snorts] just saying I I think we're Have we >> Do you need to add anything more about

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the standards of inspection? >> No, I think as long as you guys understand what they are, I think we're all set with that. >> Okay. Are you all right? You all right with that? And can we can we and if we need to bring that up for all business next meeting, we can. And it's a wash. >> One thing I want to say about

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>> said something that encouraged me. I want to give you credit for that. You said you went in, all they did was change the shower and you said not not doing anything there cuz that's my concern. >> Yeah. We have new growth and we account for it. >> Yeah.

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>> But I just don't want to see us actively trying to get new growth. God that that statement helped. >> No. I'll go into houses and I'll go down like the B they have a finished basement and it's like a 1970 finished basement >> I take it right off to me that's not

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finished they come right off >> if it's got panel owner wants an abatement on his garage >> has no issues with the valuations on his home but you requested >> an inspection on his home has nothing to do >> that's why why do you got to go into his

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home if he's not disputing the value of his home he's disputing the value of his garage They filed for an abatement and in order for an abatement which I believe it says it in the standards we do a full inspection which includes the home. >> Okay. So that's >> we can't because >> that's policy.

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>> That's yeah that's I think it says it in the state in the um certifications. >> All right. So that's policies. >> Y >> no wiggle room there from the town of the board. Um all right. So we can obviously continue this at next meeting. Um, if you have any else to add and but

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I'd like to move on. Um, and I think everyone >> moving on to >> Well, we're going to go to old business and actually we covered this uh certificate of occupancy. >> You got to catch all at the end. Okay. >> Yeah, it's all caught up and certificate of occupancy uh policy and I think we

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talked about that. Is there any else we need to add? I think we made the decision. >> Yeah. >> Um I think you had put something together. Yeah. >> Um I think the vote if I remember cor I I definitely remember it was 201. >> Yeah.

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>> Um and um that will be forwarded to the building department for their action. Am I right? >> Yep. >> So >> okay. >> Now 8 of 58. >> Well that's going to be next. That is um

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858 is six hard to drive. >> Oh. >> All right. So, you had >> Where are we at on that? >> Well, you Well, we're going to discuss that as soon as we um Don't you have something that you wanted signed to note? I thought you had put together

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>> for the building. >> That's Huh? >> Yes, that was done. >> Was it done? >> Yeah. >> Oh, wait. for the building department. I thought we were going to do a letter for the building department. >> Exactly. >> To remove the assessment from the >> CO you had put something together. >> Well, a six T drive. That's done.

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>> That's separate, >> right? No. Uh we'll talk about that uh right after uh certificate. We >> Oh, we got the letter for that, >> right? And you you wanted to bring that up cuz we actually voted on it. >> Correct.

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>> And though we didn't put a an official signature to it, >> correct? So, would you like that to be signed now? >> Why didn't you say so? [laughter] >> Did you understand? >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Um,

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>> fine. Two to one. I was wrong. It was perfectly understandable. >> All right. Thank you. >> I'm slow. >> All right. So, [snorts] uh, with that taken care of, now we're going to talk about 80 of 58, which is, uh, in reference to six hard drive. >> Okay. But that's done in

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>> it's done. Um the um so what we need to do is do an official Denise had been away for uh what couple weeks. >> Yeah. So it hasn't been officially sent

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into the to the state. The actual document we've agreed that everything is going to be put forward to the state. Oh, all right. There's no changes. But Denise feels uncomfortable

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doing [snorts] um what we um have agreed upon and voted upon. So my >> we already submitted it. >> No, we didn't submit it. >> I was of the impression it was done and submitted. >> Wasn't submitted. That's why I put it on the agenda. >> So submit it.

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>> What? >> We voted on it. We redid it. >> Correct. So my question or my I guess bringing it up to you, would you mind since you architected this, would you mind submitting it

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>> through >> to the state? >> I mean, I don't feel like I should be the one to submit it. I thought you were going to submit it. >> Well, I can do that, but I since the vote was 201, I have no problem doing that, but I was just offering that tonight. I mean, >> I'll do it. I'll do it. You guys want to

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submit it? I mean, >> it's up to you. >> I'll go and do it. I'll do it. But I just wanted to make sure >> it needs to be submitted as we presented it, though. >> Exactly. >> No changes. >> Oh, yeah. No changes. [laughter] >> Why? >> There's one way to be sure of that.

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>> You submit it. >> There's no changes. No changes at all. I have it here. Be happy to do it, but I'm just offering and let you know that Denise's position on that and just being transparent. >> Yeah. No, no. And that's that's understandable.

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>> So that's why it's on as an agenda item. No changes. Everything is >> I got the Arnold's mad too. So [laughter] but um we agreed that we were going to do this and we will do this. >> Okay. Well, why don't >> you are going to be submitted? >> Well, if you submit, could we do it this

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way? >> Then you know everything's done. >> I mean, okay. >> On the up and up. >> It's up to you and I I can do it as the chair. You want to do >> Once you submit it, we can all see what was submitted anyway. So, just submit it and then we can all review it through the gateway. >> All right. Very good. So, that's uh

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>> that was a lot of work. >> Well, I it's just being upfront. [laughter] >> All right. Um >> So, what was the delay in submitting this? >> Oh, boy. >> I had um I'll take some shirt, but Denise was away and

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I thought it would be best if she had been part of it and that's the reason why. So, it will be submitted exactly how we presented and signed off on it cuz I have it right here agree.

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>> I agree. >> I don't agree that we should have delayed it. I mean, I we have a three me we have a three member board, >> you know, and you know, perhaps, you know, the town manager didn't agree with it or the honors. I said, "We have a three member board. We voted to submit

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it. We should just submit. >> We don't have to wait for Denise to get back on vacation. >> Say a shorter version. >> Yeah, >> we voted. You should have submitted. >> You did wrong. >> Do you even know how to submit it though is the question. >> Well, I I can I can

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>> So, I mean, if you haven't been there and you don't know your way around it, then it would be kind of difficult. And I don't know if if you explain that. >> Well, I've been on the portal, so >> Yeah, but yeah, >> we'll work it out. Uh, we'll get it done this week. How's that? If you can let us know when to submit it. I'd like to just

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confirm. >> Yeah, it's going to be exact word for word. >> Y >> exact. >> I said one sentence. You've gotten the beating. I was going to give you >> Okay. Um and then um I guess the last

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um discussion for this evening will be uh Jim Board of Assessive Public as a continuation. >> So we had three what do we have? three things, right? >> Um, >> yeah. Three three bullet points. You

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>> Let's start with the I guess the I don't know if it's the hard one or >> you was mentioned it in an email. Um, and I had the thing with six [ __ ] drive really piqu my interest.

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Um, and I know we've all got different opinions. So, I do think we need to develop some kind of a policy on these accessory buildings, how we're looking at them. >> So, our accessory buildings are fine. Um, this Todd Drive one is a little bit

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unique. >> Well, to be blunt, if that's worth more than 80 grand, I'll eat my hat. >> There's no way when they sell that house, it's going to I I don't think it >> We don't We don't know that until it sells, though, unfortunately.

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>> No. But in a way, >> how much should it? Yeah. How much should it cost? You know, that that I think would be worth a lot more than that. You know, you have that beautiful floor that they did. It's a big garage. Then you have the finished area above

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it. So, yeah, we don't know what how these I mean, we have to look at the sales when we have garages like this. And we don't have any that have sold. >> Correct. Right. So, it it's it is Right. But it is >> that's why what I'd like to do is reach out and see if we can get three or four

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appraisers to come in and talk to us on how they appraise these things. >> I can tell you how they appraise them because I've been doing it for 25 years. >> I know how they appraise them too, but I think that's why >> I know they appraise them too and it's not the way the town appraises them >> 100%.

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>> Um, I can tell you that. >> Well, I can tell you that the other in assessing this is how we do them because like I said, I worked for another town. We did the same way. I'm at these meetings all the time in the classes. Everybody's doing them the same way in the towns.

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>> They could be, but I want to get them right. >> And I don't think we are. >> The way the banks are appraised in these buildings are not the same way the town is appraising. >> Nope. Because they do we do mass appraisal and they do not. >> Correct. That's what that's what we I

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talked to um Rich about. The difference between appraising and assessing is they're dead on accurate. We're throwing darts at a wall. >> No. Who? The assessor. The appraiser. >> Is that what? >> The appraiser has to be right. >> No. So, the appraiser, it's their opinion of value. It's not AC. It's not

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It's not That's just because some they're set selling something for 500,000 and the appraiser said, "Yeah, it's 500,000." Not necessarily. That's the appra when you read the appraisal, it says it's their opinion of value. >> I've read a million of them. I know all the boils. >> So, that appraisal can go a few

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different ways. Like I said, I've been doing it for so long. >> But when appraisals go wrong, appraisers get fired. >> It It's a serious business. They're looking at one. >> Absolutely. >> They're looking at one. >> We're We can't be held to that standard. We're looking at 6,000.

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>> So, I' I'd like to have some appraisers come in and talk to us about how they value those. And you're talking about, excuse me, detached properties, >> accessory buildings. So, we have valuation companies. They are appraisers.

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>> So, >> the all your valuation companies out out there are appraisers. >> That's what they do. And they they're the ones that are looking at these. They're the ones that are putting the values on these. They're going by all that stuff. >> I'm concerned.

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>> Okay. Go ahead. >> Because my 35 years of experience tells me that the Arnolds is way way off. Um, now if appraisers come in and explain it in a different way, I'm

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willing to change my mind, but right now >> we've got them >> all over town. >> Yeah. And I'm just saying we got to Denise standard. >> Is there a way um that we have the

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latitude to put another code in for >> Yeah, we put codes in all the time. No, but a a new code for some sort of like for example, I don't know. Do we have horse properties? Barns. Yep. >> Are they How How are they? >> They're separate. Yeah, they're listed under a barn, >> right?

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>> Or a stable or they're all different. >> Well, that would be a commercial property, right? >> No. No. >> No. >> Residential. >> Residential. >> That's a big business, >> right? So, um >> residential. >> So, my question would be >> apartment buildings are residential. [clears throat] >> Okay.

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So, is it something that we would have the ability to classify, I don't a a big 3,000 square foot [snorts and clears throat] um detached

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um whatever property for for um space like a a gym or a you know, can you can you break that down or whatever the the usage is.

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>> Well, yeah. So, on the card it says that it's a garage and then it has the code for the the the bays underneath and then a code for finished area above. >> So, if you got a garage that is um say

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the garage. >> Yeah. And then you got another property. You got roughly the same size garage, but it's a declared in-law, which is legal to rent, legal to live in. >> And those valuations are very similar. Almost the same square foot price. >> I I see a problem with that. >> It doesn't

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>> because the Arnold, you know, the garage on Todd Drive is not livable. It's not heated. It's not liveable. I don't care if it's got sheetrock. It's still the thing. >> This garage over here is a rental property. It's a declared in-law through this through the tile. So, this value is worth more than this one, but it's not.

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That's not the way we're doing it. They're both 180 a square foot. We shouldn't be valuable. >> I had I had an 18 15 I think 1500 square ft accessory building where I lived on Pine Street back in the '90s. And I got zero for it.

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>> Zero when you sold it. >> Zero. >> It had no value. Had zero value. I could have got the same money for that house with or without it. It brought me zero. that all the >> I've moved I don't know how many times in [snorts] between then and I have not

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built another accessory building. I want one in the worst way but I've not built one because I know they have zero value or very low value. When I build a house that I'm going to stay at for a long time, then I'm going to build an accessory builder for myself. But valuewise, they've got little to no

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value. They're like a swim hot tub. >> They do have value. And you know, you have to you have to prove that though. So with the sales, right? for those values to change. It has you have to prove that they're not worth that, you know, because when they're doing those when they these things are first built, they're also looking at

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construction costs, what they might be. I mean, there's a lot of different things that we're looking at when we're putting these >> value is what you can sell it for, >> right? But we don't know that until the the sales come in. So, I mean, these garages are selling with their homes, and we have we have there's a if if that

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Okay, let me let me back up for a minute. We have a house that's sold with a garage. All right. >> We And then we have another house that's sold without the garage. We're looking at those differences. That's the way to look at that. That's exactly how we're looking at it. And that garage is saying yes, it is adding value and that's why

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it's valued at that that amount. So yes, we are definitely looking at that. >> The guy's garage who has a garage, >> which is the right way to look at it. >> Yeah, that's we do that. Absolutely. Are you saying that the the garage over on um Todd Drive is valued at the same

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square foot price as a garage that's a declared in-law that's got two kitchens, two bathrooms, and can be rented? >> Um I'm not sure. You'd have to look at it because there's too many different factors involved in that. >> They're both roughly the same size. This guy has rental income coming in or he has the ability to have rental income

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space. Legal living space. >> He's got legal living space. We >> legal living space should be priced higher than accessory builds. >> Well, but it depends how it's coded. So, if it's it depends like if it's a second floor,

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then if it's a if it's an in-law, well, so it doesn't matter if it's an in-law or not an in-law. We don't charge extra money because it's an in-law because we have to look at what the sales are doing. Depends what No, depends what the sales are. Depends on the square foot vastly different. >> Not necessarily. They are a little bit

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different in their accessory building. >> You can't live in your finished >> talking about a single family and then one with an in-law. Is that what you're saying talking about? >> I'm saying you can't legally live in your garage in your accessory building. You can legally live in an in-law. So

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that's that building is worth more money because it's an in-law. It's it's liveable >> detached to the house. >> This No, not detached. I'm talking about detached. I think that's why I wanted to reach out and see if we can get some appraisers to come in to talk to us. >> Well, if you can give me some I mean, if you have homes that are like that, I can

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take a look at I can explain them to to you. But I mean, off the top of my head, I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. Um, when we do in-laws, it's the square footage. We will put in that there's an extra kitchen and we'll charge them for the extra kitchen, but it's all about the square footage. You

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know, if they're getting income from that, we can't charge them on that. That's an >> But like I I guess what I'm saying and and if see if I can tie it in what Loki is saying to try to >> let's say we've got a uh 2,000T colonial

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um 1872 ft. How's that? >> There you go. >> That's 2636. So 1872 ft colonial with a twocar garage. I might be out of touch. 7 700. >> Okay.

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>> Roughly. >> All right. We'll we'll use that. >> And let's add a 4 bay uh 24x 48 garage to it. Um I'm just for the sake of discussion

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going to say that when you sell that this is worth seven. With that garage, you might get seven and a quarter. you're going to be hardressed to get more. >> It depends on the buyer, you know. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. >> I think so. It depends >> because the buyer that wants the garage

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knows he doesn't have to pay for it. >> But, but if that's the case, if that's what's happening, >> wait, wait, wait, wait. >> Okay. Sorry. >> No, it's okay. Okay. So, now we got the same 1872 twocar garage 700. And now we've got 24x 48, which is I don't know

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what that is. 1100 ft roughly. And now it's an ADU, >> right? I was just going to say, yep. >> Now it's 7 plus two. You're going to get nine all day long. >> Well, and the buildings could be almost identical. You know, sheetrocked

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everything. >> That I guess that's that does that make sense? That's where >> it does, but that would reflect in the seals and that's what we'd be looking at. >> Correct. >> So, we'd have to wait for the seals. I mean, I couldn't give you an answer because we have to see what happens.

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But I'd like to look at where we're at and kind of see if we can homogenize things a little bit. >> Okay. >> Aren't ADUs different? >> So, we don't have any >> and knowing knowing also that it's a revenue neutral thing

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>> because it's not a new growth situation. We're just moving things. You know, you know what I'm saying? >> Well, so you're adding an ADU and you're saying it's not a new >> No, no, no, no, no, no. We're looking at where we're at with accessory buildings. Mhm. >> And whatever we change it to

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>> detachable. >> It doesn't change the levy. >> Yeah. Right. >> Right. It Okay. Yeah. >> So, we're not we're not talking about dollars coming and going out or anything. We're just talking about trying to be better reflective if we can. If we can. I'm not casting any

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stones. >> I'm just looking to see where they are. >> Yeah. Um Okay. >> So, that like what are you guys looking for? Like what did you want me to do? Do you want reports on something like >> No, no, no. I'd like to reach out like

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publicly, see if we can get some appraisers interested to come in and talk to us and tell us how they're looking at it, what they're seeing. >> Okay. >> Because other associations, people you know. >> Oh, you know what? That's the other two. Yeah. And feel free to invite somebody

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you might know. We're not trying to not trying to stack any decks. We're just trying to, you know, get information or anyone. I can tell you what appraisers do for for detached dwellings. >> They just throw a figure on there. 25,000 a bay maybe.

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>> You know that that's that's that's that was standard. It used to be $5,000 a day. >> I mean I'm also aware that you get the PNS, you get the number and you got to hit it. I mean >> Well, no. Yeah, but not that's not always the case though. But like that's that's standard usually. I don't know what it is now. I haven't appraised it.

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>> No, you know what? You go to the ENS, you get the project, you got to hit that number and you try and if you can't hit it, you can't hit it. But >> yeah, but you know, when it comes to accessory buildings on an appraisal, they're always a lot lower. They usually >> And they're accurate.

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>> Not always, though. >> They don't bring the money. >> Well, >> you're saying detached properties don't bring the money. >> Well, in our in our sales data, it does bring the money in because we're going by the sales data is what I'm trying to say. Well, at the same let's bring that

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in too then. >> It's it's all about the sales data. That's how we know that value. >> Let's bring that in too. >> That makes sense. >> Let's look at the sales data and bring that into >> Well, that's how we come into the values for >> Let's bring it in so we can all look at it and see where it is. >> What you could do is and you said

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accessory dwelling units. Is there anything that we can contrast compare? >> We don't have any of those. But we don't have any yet. >> We don't have any yet. I don't I Right. I don't believe we do. >> So, you can't do that. eggs from happening. >> It'd be >> I'm talking about accessory buildings, garages, barns, and whatnot.

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>> Right? So, when those seals come in and we're off, we have to figure out why we're off. And at that point, that's when they start making those adjustments. So, if that garage is off, then we're going to bring that value down on those garages. Like, we're we're already doing that stuff.

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>> We are as a board. Well, >> no, we're doing that in in with PK and myself. We're looking at that. >> We just had this we just had this in the basement. You know, you guys were not dropping the valuations. We as a

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>> way to capture any of that detached properties and have >> that's what I'm saying. Let's listen to medium and high. Let's listen to appraisers. Let's bring in what sales data we have and let's look at it. >> You can't bring appraisers though because the apprais appraisers do different than what we do. You can't do

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that. That's totally different. >> Well, our job is to assess the fair and accurate value, >> right? >> And they're in that business of doing that. >> And we have the sales debt. Let's bring them both in so that we can see cuz right now we're operating in a vacuum. >> So if a if a bank appraiser says your

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accessory building is worth >> I'm not saying you're operating in a vacuum. I'm saying we are. We don't. >> The town can't then say, "Well, that building's worth 600,000." Cuz you know the building is worth 200,000. That's what the bank's giving you for money. I would I would think and maybe this is

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just throwing bank appraisers their job is to >> money >> loan money at a low risk >> based on the fair market value of >> at a low risk. So I don't think they would um

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>> not not typically they give you a fair market value and then they say we're going to give you 80% of that fair market value. I'm not giving you 100% of the >> and a lot of times with the appraisers what the appraisers do is what it's worth. >> Let me let's back up for a second. That's one thing I have to say. When an

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appraiser now with all the new regulations, this is, you know, a couple of years ago, like I said, I haven't appraised in a couple of years. What we had to do with the the new regulations, I don't know if this still goes on or if it was just a temporary thing. I have no idea, but they they look the bank's looking at the property record card,

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right? So they're seeing what's on that and on that property record card they see what the garage is valued out of the whatever you want to talk about. Right. [snorts] So I mean they >> I don't even know how to explain this. They're >> not doing that anymore. >> Yeah. I it's it's really complicated

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with appraisers. You can't but they they are looking at what they are looking at what we're assessing those at. I always Yes, they are. I've always done that. And in my assessing classes that's what we did in all my appraising classes. All the appraisals coming through now is

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just comparable data. >> Of course, it's comparable data, but you have to look at it. But they are also looking at what the town has on the property record card, >> right? Because that Yes, they are. I I I'm an appraiser. This is what I was doing. Yeah, we do.

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>> But it's not in the report. >> No, >> all the numbers are comparable data. >> It's a lot more complicated. I can't get into how appraisals are done. It's a lot more complicated than that. But they are looking at all that data the same way we are. >> All right. >> So, >> okay. Well, what do you feel comfortable

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and what do you feel comfortable doing next step to kind of agree that to get information like that that we can all agree upon? >> I I'd like to invite some people in say like August and see if we can learn something. >> Well, maybe you should have maybe I'll

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have PK valuation come in. >> That's good. That would be great. >> I'll see if they can come in. >> Okay. So we can at least put a pin on the map that we agree with a certain set of data or agree process. >> I'm trying to look at an open mind. It's altogether possible. We gather all this

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information and I say I was wrong. I I don't have a problem with that. >> Um but what >> I just I think bringing in like your you know your >> appra like just a regular appraiser. You you can't do that. It it's totally different than that. You'd have to bring

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in valuation companies because we do valuations. You can't just bring in appraisers. We don't go the state doesn't even I don't know what to say other than I don't agree with you. I'm sorry. >> I would I would be open to bring an appraiser in >> but PK and

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>> absolutely PK. Absolutely. That's important. >> You know, I don't know what I'll talk to the association and see what they see. Yeah. But the point is, >> I mean, I can bring maybe a couple of those guys in who are appraisers and

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yeah, in doing both and maybe that will I can bring probably the president of the association and that might help if you want to do that. >> You can probably explain it to you a lot better than I can. >> All right. >> So, I mean, I think he's still a >> that would be great. So, >> and um >> anything else you'd like?

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>> No. >> No. >> On the subject? >> I'm I'm suppose I >> You got two more points. So I know you >> Yeah. Okay. Oh, that was to do with that. So So

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my agenda worked. It was an easier one. Okay. [snorts] This is more I guess questions. Um and is regards to new construction additions.

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Are we getting the asbuilts from open gov before we go up the measure? >> So I pull them. Yes. >> Good. Okay. >> Yes. >> Yep. I always do. Yeah. I just want to go out there and just double check everything. That's all I'm doing. I have

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drawn out. I just >> It's all drawn out. An engineer certified it. >> No, I draw my own pl I saying is we got the as built that the engineer drew. Now we go out with the tape measure and we're just checking his numbers.

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>> Yep. >> Pretty pretty much. Yep. Where we run the tape measure up and go, >> right? And we do it again. >> Yep. Or a laser. I use a laser, but yes. >> Oh, even better. >> Yeah. I haven't used a tape measure in a long time. Um,

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so as built, the other one I think I think we we kind of touched on it is where we have new construction sales and we send out the package and they say, "Ah, we don't want you to come in for whatever reason."

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>> I mean, it could be, "We don't like you. We don't want you to come in." It could be, "We're busy. We ain't got time for this." Whatever reason. Yep. >> We can consult with the building inspector and say, "What did you see?" >> Well, not really cuz I don't rely on other other departments for that. What I

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would do is What's the sale price? >> No, no, no. Sales price is sales price, but I'm saying, >> but if I'm out So, let's back up for a second. So, I go out there. >> Let's go, let's go with Lloyd Circle because that's a new development going out there >> right now. I have all those houses at

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good construction. >> I don't really think they're much better than that, right? And so [clears throat] we have a couple different ones out there. Like I said, that one style has a bunch of different um >> yeah, >> upgrades to it. >> So if I go out there and I say, "Oh,

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it's good, but it's selling for 1.5 and all my other houses are only at 1.2. That's exact same house." >> That's what I was getting at earlier. >> Then I'm like, "Well, that's not good. That must have a lot of upgrades in it." And I'm going to upgrade that one to like a very good cuz I have to bring it

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close to that sale price cuz we have to be between state regulations between 90 and 110% of the sale price. Yeah. >> So I have to bring that I have to put that into like very good. >> I do have and that's what I had touched on earlier. In other words, we got the sale price. We know what it's worth.

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>> Yeah. >> Now the question is how does it compare to the other ones? Cuz when we input the software, >> see it's easy over there because that's a development. So, I can do that over there. But if it's just a house scattered about, that makes it more difficult because I don't know what's inside of that house,

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>> right? >> You know, and if we have it wrong, right, and I go out there and I'm like, "Oh, God, no, I have that." If I have it too, let me just finish. If I have it too high and then I have to bring it down and then we say if they file for an abatement, we have to abate it.

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>> Then that's going to come off the new, right? You don't want to do that because what happens is now that's a negative >> on our budget for next year. >> That's actually what that's the that's what's behind most of my thoughts. >> Yeah. >> If we can appraise everything so we

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don't get ab requests, >> right? >> That's where we want to go. [cough] >> Exactly. [clears throat] >> So I guess my question though is so you've got one um they say we'd rather you don't come in. Um the one across the street is 1.2. This one's 1.5. At that

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point, >> same house by >> same house. >> Yeah. >> I'm just saying maybe that point the right thing to do is Mr. Building Inspector I got 1.2 1.5. What did you see in there? Oh, let me tell you. You know what I mean? At least then when you make

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that assumption, at least you've got >> Oh, yeah. And I've done that in the past. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. If I'm if I'm stumped on a house, I definitely talk to the building department. I'm always in contact with them. We talk to each other all the time. >> Excellent. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. I always verify things. I >> told you that was an easy win.

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No, we always want to verify. >> Okay, back to the hide one. [laughter] So, the other one was, what can we do to get better efficiency under

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592A or chapter 5 653 of the acts of 1989. >> So, so that that's where we grow, >> right? So, chapter 653. This is if you resend it. I think I >> resend it. >> Well, because you guys were talking about

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>> No, no, no. >> Okay. All right. I thought you were talking about receiving it at the meeting. >> No. And that's why >> Okay. When we adopted it, I think I probably spent 15 minutes at the microphone at town meeting doing

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everything I could to oppose it. A whole bunch of people did. They passed it. That's the way it is. And we it's not up to us to decide whether we be in favor of it or we be against it. It's our job to administer it. >> Mhm. >> So keep that on the table.

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>> So yeah. So now instead of January 1st, we've got two periods. Is that >> So we go up to June 30th. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> So January 1st we do it and we don't have to wait till January 1st. On June 30th we say what's out there halftime. Right.

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>> Rough way to say it. Exactly. >> Rough way to say it. So one particular piece of property on January 1st, it's a piece of raw land. On June 30th, there's a foundation and there's a frame up. >> Correct. >> Without this, we get nothing. With that, we get the the

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>> reassess reassess at that point and we get the foundation in the frame away. >> Correct. >> Okay. Yeah. So trying to figure out how do we do it the most efficient way we possibly can do it. In other words, we get the reassessment but we don't put any more

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work into it than we have to. >> What do you mean? I don't understand what you mean. >> And what I'm trying to get at, and it might not be possible, but we've got things like um um you had mentioned something about we've got percentages we assign, right?

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Right. >> And we can almost automate that with the data offer opened up. >> Um, >> and only only reason I'm saying that >> is we've got we can look at a frame and say there's a whole house that's framed there, but until it's inspected and signed off,

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>> it's not there. >> So, with the valuation companies, right, they have a chart >> that we go by. >> Yeah. >> What is the percentage complete? So, I think I put that in the email like it's a foundation, it's 5%. >> You didn't have details, but >> Yeah. So there's a whole chart to get us to 100%.

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>> And we certainly don't want to argue about what the percentages are on the chart. >> Yeah. So then that's what we go by. So if I'm out there and and I look at that chart, okay, I'm up to 40% complete. Then the house is at 40% complete as of June 30th. >> Right.

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>> Right. >> Okay. So these, like I said, I was looking for efficiency. These are basically just drivebys >> pretty much. Yeah. I mean, I'll go, you know, if it's new construction, yeah, they're pretty much drivebys because they're not done. I'll go take a picture

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of it, do a couple of measurements, make sure I get the the measurements right, and >> then just estimated by then, you know, by that chart that I have. >> To your point, I think I I think I get where you're going at. Is there a way that you could um just affirm something

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with the building department? I think we should I think we should have that chart. Until that frame is inspected, it's not a frame yet. And like Jim said, >> well, that's, you know, until that sign off is done, it's not a frame yet. So, what if there's still framing? How do you value a house that's half frame? Is

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it a full frame? Are we valuing a full frame that's half frame? >> If it's if it's not fully framed, then I wouldn't frame it. >> If it's not complete, then it's not complete. >> The foundation is there. >> Full frame until it's been signed off. That could still be >> No, we don't have to go by signoffs in the assessing department. We if so if I

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go to a house and you don't have the co they might help us >> what >> they might help us >> just if the frame is signed off then guaranteed plumbing heating and electrical are

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done. >> Mhm. So we can collect I don't know if those are those separate. >> Uh yes. >> So >> usually >> showing that >> if we go to open gov and the rough frame signed off all those are done guaranteed

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because they can't sign off till they're done. >> But again >> but again efficiencywise no I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you but efficiency wise looking it up on open gov and driving by it. >> We have to drive by it. That's our requirement.

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>> Okay. Well, then again to your point earlier, I'm sorry. >> It's okay. >> Your point earlier was that um we have to acquies to an exterior inspection. You can't go in, right?

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>> I drive by. I just don't come on the job site and walk in. >> Well, it depends. At the end, we we certainly can. >> You can ask. We can ask, >> right? But so you in a way where's the best data going to come from? >> That's where it gets technical cuz >> where's we were talking about if you

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don't go in the abatement's denied which isn't true. You just lose the point of appeal. But then like you just said we can't go in. Yeah, we can but we have to ask. We can ask >> according to what I'm reading was supposed to ask. >> But what I'm saying is that the information where's the best way to

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gather that accur most fair and accurate information? Yeah, that's what we're going at. And how do we do that? >> Well, that would be me because would you rely on somebody else if you, you know, if you had a job and somebody said, "Oh,

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my the job's done." Would you rely on somebody for that? I wouldn't rely on anybody for my own work. I mean, I have to sign off on all this. So, I'm not going to rely on >> you rely on the building department. You know, when you said plans changed and then at the last meeting we were at, you said you don't even know how to read

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plans. >> I know how to read. That's not what I said. >> No, you did say. >> No, I said how to build inspector does know how to replant you. >> So, what I don't do I don't know how I don't go into all the technical part of the building like you guys do. I look at what the dimensions are and what's on

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the first floor, second floor, is there a basement. I'm just looking at all the dimensions and what's there. I'm not looking at roof heights or all the beams. Like, I don't care about that stuff. That doesn't matter to me. I need the dimensions and I need to know how many rooms are in that house, how many bathrooms, how many bedrooms. That's

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what I'm looking at. I'm not looking at all the building stuff. I don't care about that. >> Basement plan, first floor, second floor, and show me a picture >> basically. Yeah. And so that's what I'm looking at. >> That doesn't do it. I'm just saying >> kind of like that. I just want the dimensions cuz I have to draw it out and

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I have to get it into the system. But like I said, I'm not looking at the beams. I'm not looking at all the different things that you guys look at. That's what I was talking about reading plans. I don't care where the electrical is. I don't care where the plumbing is. Like none of that matters to me. I just need to know what the dimensions are,

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how big the house is, and what's inside of it. >> But one thing we might be able to take advantage of if we just drive by and we see the frames up. >> If we look on Open Gov and it's signed off, now we know that all the systems

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are done, too. >> Then we can put it on. I can usually tell that when I'm there. Honestly, I can when I'm at the house, I have to measure it anyway. If the if the frame is up, I have to measure it so I can tell. If I'm there and there's a door open, it's only studded. Nothing else is

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done. It's and there is studded, you know. >> I don't do the electrical and all that until the walls are up. That's what I consider that stuff. Um >> Okay. >> You know, I don't >> Yeah. Yeah. You >> Yeah. He's not walking in.

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>> Okay. Well, like I said, my my goal was just to talk about efficiency, and I don't >> I'm not seeing anything, but >> yeah, I mean, honestly, we're pretty efficient with what we do. >> I think it's easier to signal, >> open up, sign into the portal, and look, see where the inspection phase is and

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ask the inspector, then jump in the car and drive around. But, >> are you saying like um you know, you said the electrical, plumbing, the mechanics? Yeah. You can't get a sign off for a rough frame until those are signed off.

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>> So signed off for approval. >> They have to be done, >> right? You mean completed? >> Oh, yeah. The rough has to be completed because you frame the house, >> right? >> Now, the plumber goes in and drills holes, >> right? >> Well, the inspector will not come out until the plumbing is done and the

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electrical is done because he has to come out to make sure you didn't drill a bunch of holes in places that >> are going to hurt the the structure. So, it was just a possible thing we could use as a tool to know they've done. But like you're

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saying, >> if you're going to measure it, >> if I go out there and I can't figure it out, then I would go to the building department. >> And it makes sense to measure it at that point because you got to develop the property card. >> Exactly. >> And without that, >> right? And I can't I can't develop the property card. Exactly. That's exactly

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what we do. >> Okay. So, um, last point, Jim. Any >> That was it. >> That was it. >> That was it. >> Oh, okay. Very good. Um, Lucas, you have any final thoughts? >> See, I had a hard one, an easy one, and a hard one that I gave up on. >> All right. Is that fair?

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>> Fair. >> Okay. >> All right. So, um, I think we we came and agreed to some things to move forward and, um, >> I think we're on both sides. >> When do we want to have our next meeting? Um, we do need to have one in

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July because today's the 30th, but tomorrow we have to start running the monthly reports. >> Okay. >> It'll be a quick one. Um, really just for the motor vehicle, I think that's all we're going to have. >> Okay. I'm going to be away most of July, but for a quick one, I'm sure I can

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figure it out cuz that's what I'm supposed to do. I signed up. I got to do it. >> So, >> the only issue would be between the 12th and the 19th. >> Okay. because that would be like six or seven hour drive to get here. >> You So the later of the month would be

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better for you. >> Does that work better for you? Later in the month? >> Yeah, it doesn't matter to me. >> Okay. So if I take it the first week of the month, doesn't do any good at all. >> So let's let's say u [clears throat] that be like July 20.

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Do you prefer Tuesdays and Wednesdays? Tuesdays. >> Oh, Tuesday's a good day. Yeah. Okay, that's still good for you. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> 21st. >> Uh, >> when did you say? >> Well, uh, we got Tuesday, so let's, uh, try.

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>> Would you prefer Denise? Are you good for Tuesdays still? >> Uh, I can't do the 14th, but I can do the 21st if you want to do it later in the month or >> Yeah. I would Are you all right with the 21st or 28th? >> Yeah, cuz I can't do the 20. I can't do the 14th either. So, >> all right. It's the 21st. That's good.

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>> Let's do that. you >> you >> if it changes, just let me know. >> Yeah, we can always do it the 28th, but 21st will be the goal. >> 28th. >> Oh, 28th works also. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. All right. So, let's plan for the

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21st. And if not, you're still up north. And >> no, I'm >> All right. 28 Oh, 21st. >> Yeah. >> 5:30 is still a good time for you. Would you like it earlier or later? >> 5:30 is convenient. >> Yep. All right. 19th is Runford, Maine.

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And then the following week, Friday, I'm in Hingham. Saturday, I'm in Douglas. [snorts] Sunday, Bridgewater. And then the following week in Norwich, New York, specifically. >> Okay. All right. So, let's do that. Um,

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in the meantime, my task is to get that 858 at 6:00 drive done this week. I will notify both of you when it's time and it'll be just in case as we had said. >> Um so with all that um I'd like to make

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a motion to adjourn the meeting. >> I can't say that but I will. >> All right. >> Doesn't need a second. >> Make a motion. >> Ajourn. >> Okay. Second. All those in favor I >> I. >> Thank you. 761.