Good evening and welcome to the Tuesday, April 7th meeting of the Norton Planning Board. The public is welcome to participate in person and remotely. We are here in person at the Norton Town Hall at 72 East Main Street in the Crane Room. You may also join online via the Zoom link as listed in the agenda. And
in addition, please feel free to email any questions ahead of time to town staff as listed in the agenda. I will call this meeting to order. We have six members in person tonight. Tim, myself, Eric, Bridget, Steve, and Frank. We do not have any planning board
business or policies. We'll save a couple of those for the end. No bills and warrants, no minutes. We took care of those. The first and only item on our agenda for public hearings tonight is site plan review 9 and special permit 17 for 0
West Main Street. The owner applicant is SRO Development LLC. The applicant is seeking to construct two top-of-the-shop buildings with a combined total of 35 units and 65 parking spaces. This was continued since early February. Today,
we did receive a letter from the applicant is seeking to withdraw this application, both of them without prejudice. He is still working on plans. He is not ready to present his new um project to us and he would like to present a new project to the whole
board. So, we have a letter on file um from SRO Development LLC care of Michael Larkin requesting to redraw without prejudice. So, the chair would entertain a motion to withdraw site plan review 9 and special permit 17 0 West
Main Street. >> So moved. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. All in favor? I >> I opposed. Abstensions. 6 nothing. That is the only item on our agenda
technically for this evening. April 11th coming up is our Nicktown elections. We have three seats um with a few writing candidates and one person on the agenda on the ballot. Our next meeting is going to be April 21st. It's
not going to be a meeting that has public hearings. It's going to be more of a housekeeping and training and getting policies and procedures um outlined with the new board and a strategy going forward for the rest of the year. May
18th, we do have town meeting. Um we have a couple things the planning board is involved with that is on the agenda. Only other two items for tonight is we do have two members that are here in person. It's their last meeting. Mr. Griffin who's been here for I believe
nine years. Correct. And Mr. Norris, who's been here for seems like a very long three years. >> Just just enough to get some grades. That's about it. >> Yes. He had no gray before he started. >> Nope. >> Uh Eric, we'll start with you. I do have a
>> very expensive >> certificate of appreciation for you to please hang on your wall in your office when you get home. >> As a clerk, do we need to sign it? Um >> I signed it for you. >> Oh, thank you. >> But uh please take the floor. I know you have a few things you want to say. Oh, I
got a presentation no less. >> Um, so give me one moment here. So, let me go to zoom. So, I am going to take a couple minutes uh to go over a little bit of some
thoughts I've had especially uh recently. Uh, let me see. Let me see if I can figure out how to share All right. Now, I know financing is not financials of the town. It's not necessarily something we we get into here. Um, I
honestly personally think that's kind of a mistake. So, I waited till this is my last day. So, if you want to kick me out, too late. Um, but honestly, um, as I think you know, most people listening know, I went to
the, uh, select board cuz I had concerns about the VCC and and the decision-m that was seemed to be going at the time. And the reason I had that that issue was because looking at Norton from a
financial standpoint, I was a little uh little concerned with removing one of the few really good parts where we can we can set up some of uh some extra money from business tax, you know, taxing businesses. So, it's more or less
what I I just kind of want to go over real quick so you can see what I'm seeing. Um, so this is the chart here. Um, I used the audit data that's publicly available. So I got from 2016 2014. You can go before that, but I I
needed to pick some place to start. And you can see in 2024, um, the green line is the money we're taking in in total. Um, the yellow line is the expenditures in total. And the red line at the bottom is basically um
basically our deficit. And what that and basically what that's showing me and what I've been feeling for a couple years now is we are hitting a point where while previously the mining being managed through not staying within 2 and
1/2 uh purposes 2 and a half and being very diligent is very good I think we've hit a point where our tax base is just is not big enough to deal with the realities of of the world today. Um, so this is so this is it is slowly starting
to start now, but the but in my opinion um we need to start making those hard decisions now. Um not not by 2034 or that red line where that is. It's it's continually going down. But that
also means there's a good chance we won't have the uh the general fund anymore because all that money well all that deficit has to come from somewhere. Um it's also that is also those lines are also making some assumptions like the interest rates aren't going to be
the same. I don't believe that's true. Right now it's 2.5 and a lot of the analysts are looking at it being 4.2 by the end of this year let alone next year and the year after. Iran war not pushing up gas prices higher. that's probably not a reality either. Um, and uh, you
know, electricity prices in Massachusetts, they're still going to continue to go up. Um, and they're they're guessing right now at least 9% this year. And again, this is nothing that's calculated in those lines. The lines I the graph I showed before are the steady state. And that's also
assuming we'll get the same amount of aid from the state which I don't believe is going to be true either because um currently way people are looking at that is that they are budgeting for a crisis not for sustainability. They're they're
basically are fighting for stable state not for growth which means less money for the towns. Um so those so none of those are in there which is but in my view of what's going on those all have to be calculated and
so the two options in my head are continue prop 2 and a half overrides which we haven't done uh I think the we have one coming up um but we haven't actually approved any uh or expand the tax base and there's a couple ways to do it but to be honest the best way is to
look at the CIP the SIP which really is is it says commercial, industrial, personal property, but it's really what percentage of tax are coming from businesses. And if I remember right, it's about 18% for Norton. >> Yes. Correct. Okay. I think that's
really realistically where a the town should be looking at in general, but I think that's where this the planning board um should try to look at. I know there's the atepa town meeting and all that but um I think
there's four areas of opportunity and they're basically the ends of 140 ends of 120 in the VCC and that is but I think there's really only five areas of opportunity right now. Uh basically everything is far away from the center of the town on the highways cuz that's
where get all the traffic anyway and the VCC. And that's why um when we had the joint board, I didn't make a stink about the fact that the select board uh probably overstepping their bounds by what's going on in the charter because I do believe the VCC is that important. I
didn't I' I'd rather the compromise than jeopardize it alto together. Um that could have ramifications down the road. That's something future boards will have to to think about. But um but yeah, I I think that those are those are basically
the only areas of opportunities we have to to build out uh basically the tax levies for more businesses. And when does it matter now? I mean, again, we had a two and a half that failed back in 2024 for school stuff. We
have the middle school roof coming up on Saturday. Um so my challenge to the citizens of Norton is in fact that one ballot question propane the middle school of the new roof it's but it's if anybody who's listening hasn't gone through the process before it's not just
the ballot then you have to show up for the town meeting on May 18th to prove the final warrant. So currently right now um there's about 250 people who participate total at town meetings roughly. But that but they're
representing 20,000 people. That's only one one and a quarter% of the population showing up to determine the future of this town. So part of my challenge to the citizen Norton is is show up. get get become at least aware and show up because are you going to let that 1%
basically control where this town ends up for the next 10 20 years and then my challenge to the planning board future planning boards is try to try to find like I honestly think doing the refresh like doing nothing but you know talking to the board getting things
settled for the next round is a great idea but I also think part of the conversation is having quarterly talked with town staff and be like what are opportunities? What's what tools can we what tools do we have? What tools do we
need to kind of help get that that SIP percentage up? Um or even just ask questions like why don't we have a grocery store? You know, I think that's a good conversation to have or like, you know, AI is a thing. Is there an area we can put an overlay for a data center or
something like that? So, it doesn't have to be good idea, but I think there has to be ideas thrown out there just so we can get to the good ideas. Um, but that's that's basically all my thoughts in a nutshell over the last couple months really cuz the other
part of it is my little thing at the bottom. You only can cut so much. What ends up what ends up happening once you cut too much, especially with the schools, is nobody wants to stay around for the broken schools. Nobody wants to come to the town with the broken schools. So now your property tax starts shrinking as well. And since it's 20 82%
property tax, if that starts shrinking, it's just becomes a a downward spiral until something happens. So sorry it's not on the happiest of notes, but this is this is honestly where I think the town is. And you know,
uh the planning board has limited tools, but it does have tools to at least attempt to address some of it. >> Yeah. And that's it. here. Very good. >> Hey, could I just >> Oh, go ahead. >> Well, first just a couple things to to add to it. Um
the 18% um we have come up uh few years ago was about 15, but best practices say a municipality should be at a minimum 25%. >> That should be at least the minimum target. >> Um one other opportunity area um is the
DOT property across from Blueestar. It's about 30 acres and >> it's supposed to be coming online, but again, as we know, we're in redevelopment mode now. There's just very little vacant land left. Um, and
the other thing I I think it's important to bring up is on the issue with the supply and demand, you know, this board plays an important role because of what you approve or don't approve has an effect on the revenues coming in. So um
you know that's a really critical I mean we went from 15 to 18 largely because of blue star but again blue star doesn't happen if the board doesn't approve it. So you all have a very important role um
in our budget. On top of that, something else that's been on the top of my mind, Paul I Paul and I have talked about this and it kind of is going along with what you said, Eric, and it's something that we'll start talking about next meeting and is it something that we need to put into
our bylaws within our special permit criteria or for every project is a fiscal impact study. >> So require the applicant to dig out all the information. How does these 72 apartments Yeah. and all this affect
this town services. We hear everyone say well it's going to be negative effectively it's gonna anyone can say what they want we really don't know I feel sometimes that we are fighting blind we have an idea about some things we don't know exact facts so if we have some type of requirement for all these
projects to do a fiscal impact study we can actually say this is what it's going to impact on fire this is how it impacts police this is how it impacts town services and put the burden on the applicant to prove it to us and not >> us to try to find our own information and have to come up with it ourselves.
Um, other than that, going to what chair was saying about the budget, Eric, I know just in the talks in the last week and a half where they are talking losing 6 to8 teachers, one less firemen, one less policeman yep, >> funded for next year. So, obviously budget constraints
um is significant. >> Um, anything else? >> How much time you got? No, I'm good. Plenty of time. I'm I'm good. No, that that's like I said it's been it it's unfortunate that we can't really we don't have we don't have in the in our
own bylaws to be able to talk about fiscal stuff and I I think this this board really should be the proactive part. I was in the you know being in the CIC I see the other side of it and just you know we when I left to join this
particular meeting we were right at the line and it was and that's including grabbing money from other places outside of the capital and I was like this is crazy. So um I'm happy not to have the experience on both sides but you know I think I think having this board being
being at the forefront of fiscal responsibility for lack of a better word is is an important step. Well, please come back and uh keep an eye on us. Please chime in >> from a far away. Yes. From far away. Yes. But no, I will I I'll pro honestly
it's it's I'll definitely keep an eye on what's going on here in in general cuz like when that bylaw comes up, I want to make sure I support it and stuff like that for the fiscal stuff because I think it's very important. >> Thank you. And we appreciate your service. >> Yeah. >> And Eric, I'll add on to that. I think
so and one of the ways I think I've I look at it and I think Paul we've talked about this is like the development and fiscal path for the town is a triangle you know the triangle of like getting something done you can
get something good fast or cheap pick two >> um for town finance I think it's either taxes development and town services >> if you have low taxes and low development velment, you're going to
have reduced town services. >> If you have more development, then maybe you have the opportunity to reduce taxes or increase services or something like that. So, yeah, it's find the ven diagram and area where in the where in
that area you want to be and that's uh you can't pick all of them, right? You can't have low taxes, high services, and no development. You gotta pick something, >> right? Yeah. And you got to move somewhere because, you know, just the
way the world works. >> It is time now that everyone do their job and show up at town election on April 11th, May 18th for the town meeting because you care about your town like me, the mayor.
Show up. Show up. >> Thank you, Peter. could have said it better. >> We'll keep going here with Mr. Griffin. This will be his uh end of the stay on the planning board. I have a wonderful certificate of appreciation that's going to go over his computer desk tonight when he gets home.
>> That's some nice paper actually. >> It's very very nice paper. It's high class. >> It is. >> Um Tim's part of the reason I was on the board. He was speaking at one of the town meetings where I was just sitting and listening in the audience and he said, "Look, I'm on the planning board now. Anyone can do it. All you got to do
is do something." and and try um it's kind of one of my uh things I've been saying to myself. You can just do things. So, if you want to do something, all you got to do is try it. If you want to affect anything in town, you can. There's plenty of opportunities on this board and many other boards are looking
for help. Um Tim, go ahead. Has any final thoughts? I know you shared some thoughts with it. You know, >> I don't think I have any uh more final thoughts to add. I had kind of started a running notebook and I sent it to Paul to share with everybody of uh random
ideas. Some of which I stole and some of which I've just kind of made up as I went along. So uh use them as you will, I guess. >> I have nothing else on the agenda. Anybody else have anything they want to say, Steve? >> Yeah. Uh well, thank you both of you
guys for what you've done. I I've enjoyed all of my meetings with both of you. You've both very fair. You've had good manners. You treat people nicely. You've been kind to me. And it's going to be a little bit of a loss for the board to not have you guys.
Uh I'm very much I admire what you've done, Tim. I hope I can graduate to your stage at some point. I'm impressed with how you've conducted yourself this whole time. So,
>> thank you. I appreciate it. >> Hopefully at some point we interact in a professional way again. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm I think I have my first meeting with the cultural council next week. So, I'm not leaving >> Yeah. You know, stuff leaving town, but
>> So, if anyone wants to watch me uh fail miserably at over 30 basketball, that's weekly, too. Yeah, I'm still sore from last week. If there's nothing else, the uh Tim and Eric, I think the last motions
uh should be yours tonight. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. We have a motion in a second. All in favor? I I opposed. >> Good night. Thank you very much.