##VIDEO ID:QVnRefGn9kc## welcome everybody to the January 21st 2025 meeting of the Norton planning board again this is a hybrid public meeting so members of the public are welcome to participate in person or remotely in person we are at the Norton Town Hall in the cran room at 72 East Main Street for those looking to join online via video the zoom link is available in the meeting agenda where you can join using Zoom app meeting ID 6389 29106 there's also a phone number which sty areir by phone the meeting will also be available on Norton cable access and the Norton meia s his YouTube page after the end of the meeting for future meetings please feel questions to the board ahead of the meeting to Brian carmichel Town staff they can be entered into the record shared with the members Etc if you are not able to attend so with that out of the way I'll call the meeting to order here um terms of planning board business and policies I do want to note that there was um a request with our meeting agenda for the board to try and find uh an alternative time to meet with uh Mr gski working on the zoning recodification um we didn't get enough Quorum of response for a potential meeting on the 23rd of this week um so when we get to a little bit later in the agenda we do have some available dates for him um when the agenda was posted he talked with Paul and said he has like an hour Workshop to go through and we felt like having he felt like having that after the NBTA everybody would be worn down and it wouldn't be as effective so um I think the idea being that we can try and focus on one this evening and move forward with that uh so when we get to that point in the discussion I'll go through the dates that we have from him does that make sense to everybody okay uh in terms of bills and warrant so I don't think we have anything to pass around right now um we do have a number of minutes that we had said last meeting that we're going to look to approve in batches um I want to make sure that everybody's had the opportunity to read those first few if we feel like we want to delay one more meeting I think that's okay but otherwise I looking for a motion to start approving those question so was it furthest away or was it the most recent meetings I believe I was going to go sequentially from the oldest okay that was my intention if it wasn't communicated people did the opposite that's on me moving ahead or do we want to wait I'm ready okay okay so the as absent further discussion we'll move ahead uh again just a reminder for anybody joining online via Zoom we ask that you please mute your line and while you're not speaking if you'd like to participate please raise your virtual hand in the meeting and we'll be happy to call on you thank you so the oldest sets of minutes that were included were from December the 12th of 23 again these are minutes that uh Brian has finally caught up on now Staffing situation in town H this can result um so that is the oldest one additional comments motions motion to approve the planning board minutes of December 12th 2023 second we have a motion in a second is there any further discussion okay all in favor please say I I I all opposed extenstions AB one exstension okay next set is from December the 19th same year motion to approve the minutes of December 19th 2023 second okay we have a motion from laa second from Eric any further discussion okay hearing none all in favor please say I I all opposed extensions one one exstension from Rob thank you okay and then again sequentially the next ones would be I believe January the 9th uh 4th there's one from the fourth am I missing that uh it's the joint planning board zba it's the recodification oh down at the bottom of the row there depends on how you sorted sure good point oh there we go I see it thank you so January the 4th 2024 uh motion to approve those minutes thank you laa and Eric any further discussion hearing none all in favor please say I I opposed extensions one abstain two extensions from Jim and from R okay now on to the ninth rade junuary 9th yes I don't think I reviewed those I think what I did was took all of the planning board Eva ones next okay do other people feel comfortable moving on the 9th or do we want to wait and maybe I can export these into a spreadsheet since I love spreadsheets okay go us okay well we've got the three uh we'll continue to make progress over the next couple of months here U moving on next item on our agenda is an approval not required for an-10 for 194 Taunton Avenue the owner applicant is L and fera um Paul do you know if the applicant is here they virtually okay Peter boy is here thank you I'm going to share the up on the on the screen so everyone can see it thank you Paul uh good evening uh my name is Peter Lavoy I work with DNL Design Group out Milford Mass uh we're here representing Loa and Ferrera construction um the lots are located at the corner of Tav in Old Tav um so going through the as builts and um for conservation and for the foundation uh the decks were added onto um 194 which is the closest Foundation to the road and when they put the decks on they we're too close to the property line um so we're basically here to adjust um the lot line between 192 and 194 so they meet um the side yard setback of 25 ft um so the change in the lots are only lot line changes um the area in the frontage for the Lots will stay the same uh we were able to swap the two Fil A and B the same size so the nothing changes area in Frontage and still meets the shap factor as well okay thank you questions for the applicant it's just that one sliver in the front corner uh yes right you can see the structure around 194 so the the left or the West property line was changed and you can see posel A and posel B are the same size so we just swapped the rear of the structure to the back so okay okay any further questions again this is an anr so the motion would be to endorse if we have nothing further motion to endorse anr 10 194 Tov seconded okay we have a motion from alen and a second from Laura any further discussion on the motion okay all in favor please say I I opposed extensions okay um Paul you have the plans there yes we'll plan to the tables are gone we'll find a place to lay them out and sign them at the end of the meeting if that works that works thank you very much thank you okay next item on our agenda is a modification to a special permit and site plan uh this is for a 299 South Washington Street um and Paul thank you for going through in your memo kind of the process here um not sure if we have the applicant here remotely or not rich rich on Zoom yeah I'm I'm online on the zoom Richard J from field engineering thank you on behalf of the applicant and um Paul just to restate your memo I'm sure it wasn't uh you're probably going to get it better than I will but again the action of the board is to review this and to determine if we feel it's a minor or a major modification to the permit if it is a if we find find that is a minor modification then we can proceed with issuing a modification to the permit if we find that it is a major modification then that would go through a noticing process as of this point there hasn't not been any noticing and uh follows that summarize it pretty accurately very okay uh Mr iio if you just want to give an overview of what we're looking to change here um yes so the plan on on the screen uh if you recall this was last fall we had permitted a 53,000 ft² building on this on this parcel known as 299 South Washington Street um adjacent to the conine the Commerce Norton Commerce Center um has the prospective owners have developed their building plans they've um basically Shrunk the size of the building from 53,000 to 40,000 square ft um cut off cut off about 96 ft from the from the back um side of the building where the loading area was just helped in produ uh providing more um truck U maneuverability and um and they just didn't need that that size of a building for for the what they're proposing inside so um we we submitted this request as a request for a minor modification there's no changes to the impervious surface on the site no change to the limits of work or the number of parking um spaces that was previously approved we did go before the Conservation Commission and received an amended order of conditions for the for the for the the change in the plans and um we would look to the board to to determine if this would be a a minor modification so they can move forward with the building permit process um the the prospective owners are are anxious to get to get going out here and and uh bring their their operations their business to to Norton thank you Mr Rich so again the applicant is U proposing a reduction in the building size but keeping the same amount of impervious and they've already got for conservation so any additional questions comments I feel comfortable with that well we can do well the first step is the board we have to find that is a minor modification or a major modification so that's one motion and then the second motion which can happen if we find it as a minor modification we can proceed this evening if we so choose uh if we find it is a major modification then essentially we're saying this needs to be permitted and go through a whole public hearing process again I would struggle a little with the definition major minor it's just that I don't think this changes a big deal no I just ass the letter up another St it is yeah it doesn't change any of the criteria by which we'd be looking at it so I don't see a need to redo a public hearing there's definitely in how a major and minor can it be interpreted as a lot of gray area okay very much I remember I've asked for Less gray area in the past and I got legal use spe more gray area yes exactly greater it's still greater than 10,000 square ft and greater than 25 parking spaces so and they kept the parking spaces even though they were reduced yeah that was the only question I had was the number of parking spaces being reduced commensurately but I'm fine with a minor modification I would agree it's minor I'll make a motion to find this a minor modification to special Department 9 and site plan five second okay we have a motion and a second to find that it is a minor modification is there any further discussion okay all in favor of finding this a minor modification please say I I I'll opposed extensions okay so that finding has been made I'll make a motion to approve the changes to sp9 and spr5 second we have a motion from Allen and a second from Rob is there any further discussion to approve the changes any questions to the applicant okay we have a motion all in favor of approving the changes to say I I I'll oppose extensions okay so that modification is approved and Mr richio uh Town staff obviously be in touch with you in terms of finalizing any paperwork that you need for that all right thank you so much have a good evening thank you thank you okay moving on again we're going to uh the meet of our agenda now we're going into our discussion again this is a proposed discussion around the proposed MBTA overlay District zoning bylaw and Zoning Amendment um obviously the last since our last meeting there has been a lot going on um Paul did you just want to give a quick summary in terms of what has transpired at the state level affecting this regulation and how that uh affects the town's eligibility and everything else yeah U I'll just summarize it here right on this chart that um two weeks ago the uh State's Supreme Judicial Court did weigh in on the Milton case and they did find that the MBTA communities Act was constitutional and that compliance was necessary and they further said that the Attorney General does have the right to enforce the ACT which could mean could suit municipalities to comply um they did at the at the time the court did say though that the regulation or the guidelines that were that we were required to comply with were was not adopted correctly uh because they're treating them like regulations but they were never adopted as regulations so about a week later the Commonwealth filed these emergency regulations that would lead to them being able to that would lead to those becoming enforceable regulations so um they are for all intents enforcable now but in doing so so they've reset the clock for us uh we had a December 31st deadline and it's now July 14th to comply with it so tomorrow I'll be sending them a revised action plan to tell them how we're going to get there which includes getting to putting this on our May 19th town meeting agenda okay and is there any difference I'm sure there are differences in terms of wording different things but between the regulations that were adopted by the Mass housing agency and the emergency regulations from the state the the only substantive one is the deadline everything else stays the same so the court 750 units all of it so the Court ruled that the guidelines weren't enforcable because they didn't go through the proper process but the state can just put in the same ones through an emergency process and everything's fine and they did that's lovely can I yeah I have a question on this is that they filed them are they just they're filed and they're waiting to get them approved and through or they not they are appr well they they're they're not approved yet but as theyve been filed as an emergency regulation they're in effect until it goes through their approval process is that why they reset the clock yes yeah because the court said these aren't enforceable so all of the ones that you but it now gives the state a little bit more bite it because they said it's constitutional and the a whole lot more bite because remember when we were going through this and a lot of other towns were saying well let's wait till the Milton case gets resolved because there were big constitutional issues with it and it's been resolved yeah but the state's emergency guidelines are because they are putting them in as emergency guidelines they're in effect with the clock of July right um let me take a look at a note the regulations are effective immediately for 90 days and then they the state intends to make them Perman it's what was written in the uh the state's um press release okay before we move on I'll ask the board is there anything about that that we want additional Clarity on from Paul obviously he's been he's in regular communication with with the state and their offices um as part of this I'm going way the direction I personally think we need to go anyways can you just go a little bit closer to the B the direction I think we need to go anyways is to come to this town meeting with a plan that will comply with these but also I want to hit the bare minimum I want to take all this extra stuff that we were're trying to add out I'm not interested in who's recommending it the law which is right before me that's what we should be following and then if we do that this is not our fight okay look away okay there they can settle it but on the state regulatory side any questions about the call it the last week and a half of vlash from the state in court okay um and Paul not sure what you have next in your slide here we you going to reinforce the timeline of what we're looking to do here the timeline and there's really two things tonight one is a you know need to get done and the other would really be nice to get done but uh for tonight for this and for the later Amendment for the or the recodification do need to be voting to recommend this to be on the warrant or you're voting to place it on the warrant because the deadlines in is actually the the deadline to submit is the same date as your next meeting so but it's like 4:00 in the afternoon but it's 4:00 it was time certain so for this we do need and it's just placeholder language this is not saying this is the final language you still have months of working with the public to modify language to to uh ultimately get to the parcels that you'll ultimately recommend for right now what I'll show you and what we went over last week was the I would say the wider net uh we're trying to create a safer buffer um we still haven't run this through the compliance model either but um the other thing I'm hoping to get tonight is if you're comfortable is to tell me what Parcels to go ahead and start working on advertising and getting and that's the official one that's the biggest one the biggest listing and then you could always shrink it you just can't add anything to it this will also give me a chance to start reaching out to those uh properties in the abutters to let them know CU I really want to step up on the public Outreach here so with that um so the articles are due February 11th again just placeholder language it just says we want an article on this yes we don't present anything we just say we intend to time in a few months you're making a recommendation on the yeah um I don't have any update to this time frame because they the the select board and town manager's office will finalize it after February 11th but um tonight big rule is to transmit uh to place it on the warrant but as you're going to continue on you're going to continue to refine the parcels in the text and then later in the process you all will make the recommendations so um and I'm also working uh to eventually have a joint meeting with you all fincom and the select board so we're going to see if that's possible get everyone in the room together it's a lot of heads yeah so um I just wanted to go back over uh the couple of the slides we I went over extensively last time and these were the two areas we focused on the most which was Norton Glenn and then uh Mansfield Avenue and I don't have anything new to add here but this was just a summary that if you went with Norton Glenn that's about 27 acres in total all of that property owned by PRI Norton uh there's an existing there's 150 existing units there if you were to just do a simple calculation of 16 units an acre to try to calculate the potential number of units it could be 430 again I think that's an overestimation but if you if you U subtract the 150 existing from the 43 be looking at about 280 new potential net potential new units and that would require raising everything that's on the property now and building to the maximum full capacity correct assuming that you could ined you could do that right and here and just like with Mansfield Avenue it gives you some opportunity to shred some acreage out of there too but this again it's the bigger the bigger net at this point but uh Mansfield AV um at your direct I took out the um Norton Estates the mobile home park and the shopping center and it's a total of about 32 acres and there's uh it would again with the rough calculation of about 509 potential units but there's 168 there so it could potentially increase by 341 but as you recall from my very long yes Tim it's probably not that the brand new BW building or the new one we just approved or it was also raised we could play hopscotch for all the little lots and take like one out every two or three and then you don't you can do that well has has to be contiguous up to a point so but uh what I was showing there was most of these lots are in single ownership owned individually and there's only a handful that are contiguous and owned by the same entity fair enough it wasn't my somebody didn't bring last year you guys did talk about it but uh when you combine them Norton Glenn and Mansdale da it gets you real close to the common wealth requirements it's at this point 59 acres and we'd be over the 750 again that 939 is a it's it's not an you know it's not an official number uh I should also say as soon as you guys give me the go-ahead on the parcels that I can get with serid to have them run the compliance model although I think this will be fairly close because these are all small Parcels they're not they don't have extensive Wetland so it's probably in the ballpark um but this gives you some some wiggle room if we want to try to get it closer um one thing to keep in mind too as we were as we were calculating it we're looking at it at 16 units in acre to try to create a buffer with the numbers the state comes up with 50 units time 15 to come uh 50 acres time 15 15 units an acre to come up with 750 so we'll never see 750 and 50 units but 50 acres sorry but I would focus you know on the acreage if you want to cut it as close as you can at this point I wouldn't do that just yet let's see what the numbers show us and then then we can figure out what Parcels can come out yeah I think and we talked about we don't want to we may not want to be at 50.00 zero even when have just agree with that yeah I don't know what that what that 533 not more than 55 yeah okay yeah yeah and we can right there refine from there yeah yeah is it only these two Ls I think that's the next slide call right the next slide well um there was there was another one that came up which was barrowsville which was the fourth vat getter uh I'm bringing this up just in case there's cold feed over one of the one of the sites one of the areas this this is down at barrowsville this is the former twe Mill um it alone is 24 Acres it and you can see right now it's been vacant for years it's been a mill um it's actually the mass Military Support foundation's been pursuing ownership of it um if I could bring up that without any zoning change the mass military for is it a government organization no it's a nonprofit they can't build with because our r60 doesn't have nonprofit in the zoning code so they can't right they would have we've told them before they need to extend Village commercial to right it would require zoning can I'm just bringing up that that's been going on for a few years um uh but the site again it's 24 Acres if you can do a calculation multiply 24 * 16 is 395 potential unions there's also some other properties right next to this that actually would be the very definition of what an MBTA development looks like there are some single family looking homes but there's four units in them and their densities are that one on the corner especially yeah yeah so you could bring that in if you wanted to add it um it's up to you but this is just a if you felt like one of the one one of the others is Is Not Great uh I should also mention that students here would go to salon e students at nville La and this would go to Salmon but the Glen is LG yes I'm going to put on the table my big concern is with this this looks to me like this we get developer would be all over this and we' get a bill it really does look to me like that and to me that's a push get if I could bring up the to go with that it it is one of the spots that it could get built and it doesn't have anything there yet it is an abandoned Factory so that's kind of debatable whether it's good but the nonprofit that's trying to get it right now if we add nonprofit uses to this District they'll be able to take it over without any other zoning change if if if if but we're exposing ourselves getting a big population right there um this site has its challenges although it certainly Could Happen U the dam the dam needs to be repaired let's I get you're trying to convince me can't no I'm not I'm not trying to do that I just want to put out there that there's some expensive upgrades to this what is mass Military Support what are they looking to use the property as so Mass Military Support Foundation what they do is they work with t typically combat veterans and there's a lot of training they help them start businesses is it a residential no it's so it's just a training facility training and education there could be some other commercial types of uses associated with it but if it's not residential that would help keep down people in that spot and keep it away from adding the apartments to it it's all theoretical right no I think Paul what's the closest sewer to this site how easy it would it be to hook in not close miles okay miles away so 123 I think and it'd have to go up so nowhere 395 septic is probably not feasible right I'm trying to think again that was just a that's just a mathematical formula yeah but be very there actually yeah septic power yeah um yeah I think as we discussed I think last meeting we had two clear top areas as we decide on selecting Parcels the question is is this something that we would notice as a backup in case for whatever reason we go and notice these parcels and the owner of the Glenn says you know what I'd love to redevelop I'd love what this this law says as soon as this is affected I'm putting in Max Capacity everywhere we would have hot thoughts about that so the once we choose which Parcels to notice that is our as Paul said the list that we can't expand from we can cut but that's our top list I'm comfortable putting all three locations on notice and then cutting it down as close to 50 acres going forward I want to finish the presentation for see what else there is it's pretty much the end so where do we can go I I pitch it and then I I've put we down and I think it should be on our selections our possibilities I my understanding of it and I know you don't agree with it but my understanding is it is that a educational facility cannot be zoned for this and where does it say that in the guidelines that are now becoming enforceable okay the guidelines not the law and the law is what's become enforceable let's be they are guidelines are becoming regulations until they've made that in writing I think you're taking ween out under you know it's not there and I actually have the long F I invite you to point it out as you want to say it's in there um say the it's not it's not Ina no is only three paragraph I don't think we should be eliminating it or something oh they might or something there I think that you're artificially put and I think Weeden is also one of your strongest things because it absolutely won't get built you put it right on the we comment they aren't going to do that okay nobody's going to build it there so the purpose of putting weat is to avoid it being built and I don't think we should be pulling out things like that and putting in um Parcels where there's some chance okay I agree with you 100% that Wheaten would be the best option but I think that it's clear in my opinion that the guidelines are becoming the law which is enforceable show it to me I in the guidel you guys keep saying that the guidelines are not law so guelin are becoming the regul so when they become a law Rob we can talk so as Paul said in the beginning the state put out the emergency regulations which are in effect immediately so regardless of how we feel about the state do you have a copy of those regulations where it says this yeah I'm pulling it up okay so these are not laws though this is just something the states suggest this is now the law it's a binding State rule so we can choose do whatever we want as a board but we would have to understand what we I think we all understand the Nuance of what we're talking about here we've gone over it repeatedly so to go along with a little bit further for for Rob's argument I am also fine with selecting ween for notice and then knocking it off further on if we like I'm okay with that I don't think it's going to pass I think exi get out of the conversation right now is not the best action I I again I think it's completely against the guideline and I think the guideline's enforceable but I'm fine with marking it for now and then cutting it down later the only problem with that is it's going to Cloud the picture the more we Cloud this picture like we do have a reprieve is now the deadline's July but if we get this again it goes to town vote and all the picture is so cloudy people are going to vote it down again then all of a sudden now we just seen that if this is the state does have bite behind this with the attorney general we need this is a second chance to get in compliance and not put us in danger I I'm fine with if as a board you want to take a vote on the wheat and parcel whether we want to include it I my expectation is they will take a vote on each section individually of what we want I agree with you whole heart can guidelines yeah so we can have continued debate on this do you have Le then we continue to have that as considerations so we can talk this out the rest of the night think my feeling is that we should vote as a board to include each set of parcels that we want in the notice agreed so when we come to each set we can debate each set individually is that everybody to also way as they vote not just trying to help the state but you have to get by our town meeting and if you come with something that the town doesn't like they're going to BU you down um that's why I don't want Cloud picture as yes we're going to eat that impact and so if we have an opportunity to do this right and get it by the town I think we should be seizing that opportunity not trying to so find a way to get a build it has to get through town meting and the state has to say yes it complies so if we do things at town meeting that are that the state doesn't like regardless of how we feel about the state they can say nice try try again so and I see something in the law if the state says well you canly with a law but we don't like it I say we fight that at that point I'm going to reverse my position on not fting they're going to probably say thank you for submitting an article this is not meet the requirements of the regulations you're not in compliance that would be what they would say okay so we can discuss specific Parcels when we get to that point let's not conf confuse the between a law and something you think might become a law guidelines and all that it's it is the current law the law guys let's move on let's be straight that is the law right here at my screen so let's move on I want to make sure we do have members of other boards who are joining us in person and who are joining us remotely I want to make sure as well as members of the public who are here I want to make sure they have the opportunity to speak um so if there's anybody here in person or who's joining remotely who' like to raise their virtual hand to speak um especially from our members of fincom and or the select board who are joining us um who'd like to come up and speak I do see you miss Winston as well um so I'm not going to set off a wrestling match to get to the podium here let's go first I just got a quick question and I came I'm sorry I came late um somebody explained to me that guideline and law just going back and forth cuz I'm I'm I'm I'm out of the loop on this just to clarify it so to clarify and Paul correct me if I misspeak here the state adopted the law and directed the state agency I forget which acronym to write all the regulations around it a couple of weeks ago a case involving the town of Milton went before the mass Supreme Court and the court found that the law was constitutional the Attorney General can enforce it but that the guidelines were not issued correctly so they aren't those aren't enforcable the state then went behind its back and said here are emergency regulations which match these completely these are now enforceable have fun you have until July um so the regulation so the state in the regulation designated the EO eohc to to develop these guidelines as part of 3A so the guidelines which are now emergency regulations are in effect and they ask for compliance by July in terms of the delineation between a law and the regulations that would be is it in the code of actual Master law 3A or is it in the regulations from the eoh hlc and answer is the latter for the this is what you have to do portion of it in terms of what you can consider as part of your District does that make sense yeah so schools are out is that what you guys are saying yes my inter that that is the interpretation that um we talked about at our last session a little bit and Mr War repeated I think that we discussed there may be some question about whether there is land owned by some of those uses which might still qualify um but that's something that we would determine when we get to that point in the parcel selection process so I don't see any hands raised in the zoom meeting so I'll ask if again I just want to be clear that um this um excuse me Roger M 62 po screen the slide that you had up earlier where it said you had all of the guidelines guidelines guidelines lines and then at the bottom it said regulations so did all of the guidelines become regulations and is that some is that what this is yes and these were the guidelines that we were going by before that are now regulations yes the state copied found the unenforceable guidelines copied and paste them into emergency regulations and now they're enforceable yes this is the document you're seeing Roger okay this is the emergency regulations on the state M.S and as far as I understand you're only voting for a placeholder space in the town beeting today that is the vote that we need to make right the question is whether we will also make parcel selection this evening um if we do that introduces the opportunity that we might actually have a meeting where we don't discuss this this this law I find that hard to believe a man can dream uh m I know you've been trying to get up to Cod and here did you want to have an okay hi Debbie Winston Elm Street I'm just concerned as I sit here the whole uh what's the word I'm looking for the whole atmosphere has changed related to this as of yesterday so do we know whether or not towns are still suing the state over this issue number one number two and I agree with Rob until you see it as law that we shouldn't take Wheaten out because the goal here is not to have them build and put more pressure on the schools in town services and my third point is as I sit here and as I have watched planning board meetings it is very disheartening to see certain members sit there going like this or rolling their head in their eyes with a colleague's remarks and legitimate comments that's not cool thank you so to answer your question Miss Winston I am not sure if other states or cities or communities are currently suing the state over this latest round I wouldn't be surprised if somebody did um I believe in the court decision the state did not touch whether Milton actually qualified at the level that they did correct they left that question unanswered they didn't yeah right if they Transit community so Milton will probably still have some bones to pick I think from my perspective to Rob your point and Miss Winston your other point from my perspective the state's emergency regulations are in effect and they clearly State privately own and used for educational institutional uses can't be used in this for this overlay so my perspective is that ween is not eligible we will take a vote as a board to determine what partials we notice regardless so that's my personal feeling Paul do we know what Holden intends to do they don't are they the one that's just ignored everything the state's done yeah theyve just thumbed their nose at it from day one and said we're not doing it yeah I I haven't heard of any changes I I should say too after our last meeting I did email the state the question about we and is it you know there's the campus but then also what about off campus my email went out the day the court issued its ruling um I haven't heard from them they've been busy yeah I will follow up and see uh they haven't always been quick to respond but Town Council has said her her opinion was campus it sure looks like it would be excluded property um if it's if it's paral property that Wheaten owns that's not part of it it it's becomes it her response was it's still ultimately the state's call so as we go forward tonight if we talk about ween really like to know which which part she actually couldn't exclude we so she said St she ex she said the campus would be an excluded property but again that all gets decided at the state level we are she said property that ween owns that's off of Campus might be eligible but that's but that's that's the state's call yeah and the state would be wanting to push for something that would get developed right yeah I it's it's certainly it's a gray area yeah I think we have somebody else barar Le Barrow Street um I'm wondering if you are aware I know planning board also deals with flood zones and so forth um the the area you talking about in relation to that pel is a flood area that river that runs through there whatever I'm not exactly sure what the name of it is but we had extensive flooding this past year um as a result people had to be evacuated from their homes in the barels Court barel Street area and um brought down en it was it was a nightmare I can't see how this possible would even be considered um in light of the fact that it is a very definite flood zone and it's already affecting the residents there also I'm worried about our water sources um maybe we we need to uh go to the state and say well we have emergency issues without what I mean how can we possibly make more water for this many units and we're struggling now to make sure we have enough clean water for the residents that are here thank you I don't disagree with you I think the state would say we don't care make it happen and I believe that is why I think the message from many members of the town has been let's comply in a way that makes it as challenging as possible for the most significant impact that it could be which is why I think the first two Parcels that we put up are ones that already have multi family units on them so that to get anywhere near whatever number the state wants they would have to raise it and build something new and the net impact would be lessened so if they did if somebody decided to do that we also talked about our last session I you see you um that none of the properties that we went through I'm not sure if we did this level of analysis with the barrowsville um that the building value was higher than the property than the land value for all of those Parcels so it wasn't a case where you have a prime lot with a fixer upper on it that you could P those down and raate that you would see the value in redeveloping immediately all of them had buildings on them that are more valuable than the land that they sit on which makes it less appetizing for development even if that were something some wanted to consider yes I don't know if you know this um but over 100 communities have approved this correct already I don't know the number in front of me but I believe how many of those the question is how many of those communities actually submitted plans to the state went through town meeting or this city hall or whatever it may be they were process and the state came back and said no we're rejecting that do we have a number on that are they generally accepting them is or is there a big um I don't have numbers but I know that there have been some where they've approved with conditions and there may be some that they've rejected I just want to analyzing this with it just going to rub a stamp it or are they really pushing back and going through it and seeing um you know no you can't do it here no you can put it there I you know I don't know what the history is with the 100 plus communities so I know they're going to go through this with a fine tooth com um there's a our regional planning agency has to run this compliance model that they have to submit so the state's looking at that from a number crunching exercise and who what agency of the St is handling this executive office of Housing and liable communities okay thank you and the Attorney General they're not going to rubber stamp anything when it regards to this could Paul could you explain the uh grants with the firefighters that's affecting the firefighter equipment if I do it might come out too angry I think that was Paul you can say I think that was Pro it was definitely alarmist but I think it was it's not alarmist State basically said anything any grant program that goes out tack this onto the end of it as a requirement but they did say Paul you continue yeah so in the guidelines that are now the regulations it said all these grants are subject to compliance and discretionary funds other discretionary funds so when Milton got into their situation the state withheld uh Cort Economic Council grants which was not one of the 12 listed so last week the state announced this fire uh fire safety grant that we've received for multiple years and apparently the towns that are not compliant well this is where it gets confusing because it it the reports went out that towns didn't get the money who were not compliant problem is now we're compliant until July um the governor in the in a a Globe article I read said no no nobody's not complying at this point so funding could still come but the but that application clearly said now you had to be compliant with NBTA and so that that caught a lot of that caught a lot of attention so Paul with the Glenn piece they couldn't just add on units right because they would have to build them to suit this he would have to get rid of all those families demolish and then start from scratch all over again potentially that's the only they couldn't add on is what I'm saying zoning bylaws only permit one building per lot right and none of those lots would be conforming enough where you could divide I just wanted to make sure sense why we chose it because it can't it doesn't it's not a feasible spot to build on it's very a lot would have to happen again I don't want to say to anybody that any of these parts is nothing will but e to say it's less likely when there's a building on it versus vacant land when there's a revenue producing building on it yeah okay here's sorry I was going to do one more call to see if there's anybody on the zoom meting who wanted to speak I did see uh at least one member of fincom and one member of the select board Okay so terms of path forward this evening I think Paul laid out we do need to submit placeholder said yes we want to submit placeholder language for this article the code is do we want to go down the path of partial selection this evening so um I'm want to speak to both of those I I I think I'd prefer not I'm personally I think you know we're I still disagree on the ween thing I think they should stay on the docket I think we paint ourselves into a corner take anything off and now I would like to add this one as a backup to we that was one of my previous deck this is the large apartment buildings if on on one East Main Street right if you go over the highway go about half a mile yeah I don't know the exact name of [Music] development so yeah I'd like to add that in that's something that we like right now as well have read as well um okay so it sounds like there's question about parcel selection at least from a final list but I just like to add that if we could add that and keep waiting in the conversation until it's officially eliminated so I would be happy I will say that we went through a review of outputs from the workshop at the last meeting along with a number of the part pars and East me wasn't something we discussed last meeting so I want to make sure that we do need to get to a point where parcel selection is final um so discussion is good at some point I would like to not introduce new Parcels that we haven't discussed so I'd like that point to be after right this second where where this parcel land on the no open house we Paul can check that when we go through if we're toting now we're already throwing away the results of the open house so we don't want to ride that too hard we no we discussed we at length at our last session and we discussed the end this evening so I we understand where we sit on that yeah last time we said it was law that it couldn't be used um check that out but that that was true now you're saying it's going to become law that it can't be used Rob no that is true it is and it is an emergency regulation from the state that is in effect to delineate between that and 3A is irrelevant so did what I said was what I just said untrue I'd like you to if you like to repeat it then I'll ask you then I will give you a yes or a no okay last time we talked about weat and being law I went and found out it wasn't um we then now we're saying well it's going to become LW and we still don't even want to talk about it and I think it should remain in the conversation until such time as it is law that we can it is a regulation that is in effect I find that distinction with whether it's in the text of 3A or whether is in an enforceable regulation in the hands of the state irrelevant so you can feel differently okay the board can choose to vote but then I want to put however they want but I then I do want to put this other parcel in and have it be in the conversation we're not deciding on it we're just saying we will also talk that one through and consider it I'm fine with considering another parcel in our discussions at our next meeting short um while we're on that I do see you up at the podium I just say is there any other Parcels that we've gone through in the open house or that we've talked to in previous sessions Beyond The Glenn Mansville Avenue twe weaton and the parcels that Rob just talked about which is East Main Apartments um Paul if you want to just pull up um I believe you had that in slide five maybe of your deck where you had those additional Lots um I'm not if I got the actual number correctly then I I'll give myself the mini Pad on the back there but I want to make sure that for a focused discussion on parcel selection that we know the full and complete list that we're prepared to discuss here we go so these were the other slide seven that wasn't that far off so these were the other areas in our open house which receive votes are there any other of these areas that we want to be that we think there's enough interest we want to have these in our discussion for our final pars of selection with the law changed do you want to have another open house let people vote again because the text of the law is not change so I don't think it's relevant oh so weaken is still allowed to vote this it was allowed at the time they did that Rob yes no you have to allow me to tell true information even if it's inconvenient oh my God Rob the delineation between State emergency regulation and the text of 3A we have to follow both so I don't care whether it's in the regulations or in 3A we have to follow it anyway and I think you're making everybody confused and not and you're not hearing me I think if people voted based on a different set of rules and a lot of people did vote for weaton if you're say it's off they should have a right to Revo again if you can find distinct changes between the previous regulations and the emergency regulations we're happy to discuss those well the fact we was allowed under the previous W under the new yes it was because it wasn't law then and you're making it you're actually making it a point now saying well now it's law so now it matters it is a distinction without a difference did not matter before then by the very distinction that you're harping on okay so I think we beat this horse enough R um sure i' like this included also specify East m east yes so anything else on the screen or anything else specifically that we want to be included in our discussion about parcel selection um hi this is suas um I actually live in Plainville I'm trying to buy a piece of um lot across from Reen Barton so when it says readen Barton is that the big industrial area or it's the small parking area in front of it it's an industrial so sir I would say that that is the the large parcel if you have questions about a particular property I'd ask you to contact during staff this meeting is not sounds good yep thank you just want to put that ify thanks okay Miss I'm sorry I kept you waiting up there few minutes I'm sorry for what I'm about to ask uh R Car Oak Street uh can I get a clarification on what Town Council said about Wheaten please Town Council said that they did not feel that the main campus would be allowed but that other properties that LE know would be a potential gray area if they weren't like being used for for example they have a lot of land behind like yeah behind the ball fields in that area that's I know you mean I just want to hear you say it again thank you yes thank you okay so is there anything further that we want to discuss this evening if we're not going to proceed on partial selection my next point would be move to submit the placeholder language to town meeting and then move on did we determine if we can do it in a single article versus separate Paul did you get clarification we did and you can do it on one one article please article I want one article so I don't have points of information saying no you have to talk about that part of the article later thank you Miss wion yes if you if you want to sit speak from there you can I can just restate him to the record I'm not going to make you H up thank you I have a question if if because I was one of the ones who voted we if it's not allowed there is a point that shouldn't we be allowed to vote again but I'm also hearing based on what she just said that Wheaten should still be in the mix just not the educational piece but the other land so I think I think so the question from the audience was just speaking about the distinction of voting for Wheaten and whether other land would be allowed I think we did talk about this at our last session um the feeling was that some of the other land that weat knows like behind the president's house and that kind of stuff we felt that the people who voted for weaton I think this was the feeling from people on the board was they voting for weaton as a isn't going to happen option so we felt that the other land that weat owned because it's empty um we could see a scenario where if that big parcel which is all one parcel that whole thing all the way going up to the parking lot um would be a potential thing where somebody would look at and go ooh I can build student Apartments so we felt that including that may not be in the spirit of people who voted for Wheaten as a I don't want it built so I'm putting my do here view so well said that is um I think Steve Stephen does that summarize how you kind describe people voting for that parcel I think if you are in support of the Library Square the north campus like the north uh thetic Fields it should be looked at as a place where the the potential is there for to develop and it you're looking at it as a good spot to build the center of town it's not a not going to happen option right it has access to I remember that night I think that was Z the end you were PR but then I moved my DOT because I didn't want it right if you want an ideal single parcel at the center of town instead of a split District that's a good spot for it but it has potential if you don't want it to happen that's not the choice if you want something split you got to choose from the other options thank you what I'm trying to put on here is another in and a happen option if they want to say we can is it there so that's what the is did you want to add a clarifying statement just uh yeah it really matters but um I'm not supported Wheaten uh at all because I just think it's too complicated um and I'd be interested to see what Town Council has to say further after tonight um but it does seem pretty clear that it would be excluded as private educational land use based on the now emergency enforcable bylaw regulations this board can choose to do whatever it wants including ignoring whatever rules it chooses to do so um yes I see another hand raised I'll ask you to come up again I gave Miss Winston a pass but I know I'm late to the potty but I and I don't want to drag your meeting on any longer but in 10 seconds can you tell me what properties are in the consideration what plots are under consideration right now by this board so right now the Glenn so the parcels that are commonly known as that Glen all of those are under one owner um man Avenue across from the TPC this does not include the TPC parcel it's all the multifamilies on the I hate Compass directions the right side of the road as you go towards Mansfield duplexes the duplexes and other Lots in adjacent so it also includes the ibw building and uh down too oil the oil company all the way down that nor links yeah R to norlands okay department so those two uh we talked about barrowsville potentially we talked about weaton potentially and we've talked about East M Apartments potentially as of now those are the only five right now that are under discussion and and they would all be split none of them would be none of none of them together would be the 50 acres we there's no one single 50 acre we currently we might be but most of the other ones are 25ish 20ish we could get to 50 acres the state requirement with the gland and Mansfield ab and nothing else and we can even reduce from the full set to get closer to the 50 I think Paul as you put up in your slide if you put the two of those together it's 59 Acres so there's some once we get past the big picture parcel selection we have the option to shrink down and cut things to get as close to the 50 as we feel comfortable so if uh probably not 50.00 in case the state decides we don't like this little bit of wetlands here so now you're at 49.8 and you're out of compliance um the schools also talked about the split being good that you could offset between the different elementary schools thank you so thank you Paul that and that summarizes what I just kind of went through I think a little bit Zach I have This research out a different computer home the aages of all these areas I'll send you those numbers thank you and Paul your presentation is in our drop box correct so it should be yeah and the one from uh two weeks ago perfect okay so anything further on this discussion otherwise our next action I think would be to vote to put placeholder language for this one article on the ballot at town meeting so moved so moved second second I say Allan Rob with the second are you okay with that Jim sure okay doesn't matter I'm sorry who was the second Alan motion second round and is there any further discussion on the motion to put forth placeholder language okay all in favor please say I I I opposed extensions okay so we have placehold language going forward and we have our our short list for a focus discussion on parcel selection at a future session okay the last item on our agenda this evening is continuing discussion on the zoning recodification um again this was originally pitched as Mr gasi would go through another round of his Workshop but he felt that because his session would take about an hour that after the NBTA discussion that might be a little bit intense for everybody um so we will look to reschedule him for another date um he has availability via Zoom next week uh that is Monday through Thursday or the following week Monday through Thursday as well and then if we go into the week of February the 10th uh I realize we already have a meeting on the 11th the 11th is the one day that Meek week key is not available of course uh he is available live or via zoom on the 10th 12th or 13th so our action item this evening again is just to put forth placeholder language what Tom meeting warrant to discuss this and then we would set further date to go through that Workshop which she said would be about an hour Paul hour an hour and a half okay hour hour and a half just to so two hours at least I didn't set the time minim I know I'm terrible at saying how prob arguing a lot so it's going to be three it is going to be so we already have the 11th as our next posted meeting and Paul I assume we have items on the agenda for that meeting we do that's not uh as far as your usual it's not a lot but okay we have to there's two or three more days left for them to advertise so it's potential that you could have another one yeah could be another item or two but okay um and has anything on the agenda for the 11th been noticed as a public hearing not at this time that's what we're waiting on so there's nothing that's noticed So in theory could we move our meeting to another day that week or is that a dumb idea no I think it's smart no 12 right the days that Mr Ros is available is the 10th 12th and 13th can so so the day that's not Tuesday just came up I can't do Wednesday 10th or 13th so the 10th or the 13th is an option we can either add an additional session have a focus discussion on the recodification or potential shift our meeting on the 11th to another day in the week um we'll say the 10th and the 13th since nothing has been noticed we do have that flexibility let me check my own calendar otherwise I'm going to get in trouble what what time are we planning on doing um I don't think we have anything specific um okay I just need turn I I can start at 6 yeah I don't think I think the chall I think we have a challenge starting before 7 from the from so they keep schedule okay select board has a meeting on the 13th okay sorry the 10 six the select board is not important we can kick them out of this room just kidding let them meet we can be in wi really so um if we want to avoid conflicts with the select board do we have objections to shifting our meeting on the 11th to February the 10th 10th Works 10th works I'm good I'm good Paul does that work for you too perfect Mo to the um just to make sure because that'll push our noticing guidelines for the next agenda back a day or two right not a problem just to make sure we put extra reminders in our own cu the town clerk's crying why are you doing it today you don't have to do it until just to make sure take care of it just to make sure that they actually post it and don't wait till Friday like they might sometimes do for a Tuesday session now they're they're quick we usually post them Wednesday or Thursday before Tuesday meetings so just to try to avoid that can you tell them paranoid sometimes no and with reason I've made mistakes so Brian I like it okay so we do still need to move to submit placeholder language for the zoning recodification so moved seconded okay Allan and Laura with the second any further discussion on submitting placeholder language okay all in favor please say I all opposed extensions okay that takes care of that um Paul is there anything else that you wanted to bring up as we go through this process moving forward to our time meeting and we've accomplished your two must havs for the evening right so hope well probably not by the next meeting but soon after that we should have the final schedule for town meeting out so that includes some big things including you know typically you we have to present to the select board in vcom but as I mentioned earlier we're going to try to see if we can have one big one big meeting have everyone in the same you know the room together talk to each other your public comments together um and then it'll save some of us meeting time too so if that can happen but we'll have the final schedule and uh yeah and I think we're still a little bit ahead of schedule but as things go with town meeting it accelerates real fast yes but I think I'll thank Mr marsan and Mr Tillis and all the members of the fincom select board who joined our meetings um if for no other reason that it'll make those other discussions quicker and everybody will know what we talked about why we talked about it and it won't be just me saying it so a motion to hold on I you say is there anything else anything you want to say in the in the open session otherwise we do have a motion to adjourn hold on hold on hold on okay why I said anything else no um before we get to the next recodification meeting I sent Paul some documents for you guys to review so you guys aren't like sidelined when the meeting comes I think I I looked in yeah I did we did get them on the tent I think I sent you a response um there's one probably one more uh that has the whole listing of all the categories for the useless table I cleaned up his organization cuz he had a a miscellaneous table and another table that were I don't know why commercial uses and other it was a the miscellaneous table didn't exist before so I don't know why he created a new random item table but it's not changing what we have permitted in the zone it's just changing the headings that they're under I I did a separate thing of changes I also would like to recommend but they to be considered completely separate I want just the organization of the chart itself to be considered as one thing that's the main important item there uh there's some changes nothing overly crazy but it might look a little cluster on the paper it's all highlighted and color coded uh but just yeah take a look at the document so it's not a surprise thank you Stephen anything else we do have a motion in a second on the floor okay before we vote before we vote I will say a reminder that we do have the plans to sign here so nobody leave before signing otherwise we have a motion to adjourn all in favor please say I I oppose extensions thank you very much everybody