##VIDEO ID:R2DogiBG_Wc## welcome everybody to the Norton planning board's meeting of Tuesday November the 12th 2024 again this is a hybrid public meeting so members of the public are welcome to participate in person or remotely uh in person we are at the Norton Town Hall at 72 East Main Street for those wishing to join via Zoom the meeting link is available in on the posted agenda or using meeting ID 6389 29106 there's also a phone number dial in directly we do ask if you join remotely that you please remain muted until until we have a public comment portion uh just to make sure that we don't have any cross talk going on with the zoom meeting will also be available through the Norton Media Center in the following days for future sessions please feel free to email questions for the board ahead of the meeting to Brian carmichel Town staff so they can be read forward to the board read into the record Etc so with that out of the way I'll call our meeting to order and dive into uh our general business here I don't think we have anything in planning board business and policies or bills and warrants or minutes to attend to at this session um we do have an item D for future meeting dates but I'll save that for the end uh unless anybody really wants to dive into their calendars to start off I'm assuming the answer is no um so first item up on our agenda is a review decision for remand special permit sp-1 and site plan 20881 for 237 East Main Street again this is just the review of the decision made in our prior session um thank you for pulling that up on screen um as this was shared to everybody did we have any questions comments concerns about the written decision at all um and did you want to just give any introduction or overview in terms of sure so this this uh decision represents uh what you had talked about at your last meeting so there were a couple things in here we We spelled out specifically that's in addition to the usual conditions um one is uh a standard condition of approval number four on page oh on page page three where uh because you were wanting to ensure that what gets built was represented in what was presented to you so we put a specific condition we actually uh modified a typical condition to specifically call out the site plan and the rendering plans so that way it's in it's in the record um otherwise the only other thing we added um and we need to just make this a standard condition again anyway is um um requirement for Native or adapted deer resistant and drought tolerant trees shrubs and vegetation so that was added right at the end and then uh we worked with Robin Our Town Council and just captured uh the votes that you all made um in fact we in fact that one motion where you had the site plan and the waiver she just recommended doing it all capturing it the same way so I did that um we made some specific on the uh special permit findings we made a couple of more specific findings in terms of uh the reasons for approval of the special permanent site plan that's really it okay anybody have any questions comments okay if decision then it'll be good to be signed and be done you have a copy tonight okay could make one later okay do chair can I ask um do you all sometimes you all have a a confirming vote on the conditions do you want to do that or um since we aren making any changes or updates we don't need to if somebody makes a motion we certainly can is it cleaner if we do it doesn't hurt either way yeah no I'm just asking if there's anything we gain from it basically it's another it's another vote on the record to add to the file yeah you guys bored sorry so you guys bored yeah okay if there not to be game then send it to the printer and I'll come up with you okay okay so next section on our agenda is public hearing um we have first one is MSP D4 for 222 Mansfield Avenue this is an application for a construction of a sound wall along the property line the owner is New England ice cream um this was on our agenda for our last meeting but was continued to this session for noticing error um so I see somebody's already sharing the screen here so if you'd like to just introduce yourself and Dive Right In uh and get into what we're talking about right uh good evening Mr chairman members of the planning board firstly I want to make sure that you can hear me yes we can thank you okay great my name is David mwell with Kelly Engineering Group we prepared the um request in front of you which is a modification to a special permit that was issued in 2016 the special permit issued in 2016 was for the uh Warehouse house use over 2500 ft within the industrial zoning District the plan that we have up here really is just a zoomed out uh picture so we can orientate ourselves where it is the bottom of the page where my cursor is is Route 140 the uh Arnold Palmer Boulevard is access to the uh to the uh no I don't even remember which golf club it is now the golf club back here over here the Great Woods sorry I'm not a golfer today uh over here is the greatwoods and in this blue line and green line is uh New England ice cream and the reason we're here tonight is to um construct a new sound wall for sound attenuation that will better Shield noise from New England ice creams operation with respect to the uh residential neighbors over here in Norton Estates um this is just a more zoomed in plan of um really this is a rendering of what we what we uh just an aerial view showing the perspective of where the building is how it was designed laid out this is from the 2016 project what's there today is a sound wall in this uh magenta line that I'm tracing um since New England ice cream has moved in and over the past few years they've had some dialogue with the neighbors um about the noise and that's that's been going on for quite some time and they've agreed to make some improvements the plans that we filed with the planning board I'm going to move on to those Now is really just in existing conditions showing exactly what we showed here there's the existing sound wall I've colored the building in yellow here we have the loading docks back here trailer storage on this side and the car parking is all out in the front there's some drainage structures under the pavement up here some drainage in the back uh the property lines are here and the residential neighbors are shown in these um homes over here um again this this is as the first sheet of the plans that we filed to modify the special permit and this is the second sheet um what we're showing here in red is the new proposed sound wall it's about 22 ft High proposed to be a real sound wall with u 22 ft High about 840 ft long or so 845 ft long also shown in this little window here is where the existing sound wall is that's a wooden sound wall I think it's 12 to 14 ft high and it's proposed to be removed um to put up the new one um not much on this plan we have erosion controls we did meet with the conservation agent I think last spring um we've got all the notes on here that um to take care of the environment usual Ro controls as needed um as far as the planning board perview on this I think we just want to modify the special permit to go along with all the recommendations from the staff and other agencies in the town I think I had mentioned that the uh nland ice cream has gone through kind of what would be considered an extensive review uh with the Board of Health they had a sound consultant kavan aachi um work with the uh the neighbors and the neighbors hired a sound consultant as well to come up with a program that everybody seems will work to attenuate sound issues at the um distribution center for New England ice cream so with that and through the chair I think that you know it's pretty straightforward what we want to do um we chose to apply to to the planning board to modify this special permit um as as there was another I couldn't find another mechanism to go to the planning board but everybody thought we should go to the planning board to um prior getting a building permit so um with that through the chair we can turn this over to uh planning board members and members of the audience just to let everybody know we do have Mr Jamie Lor he's the general manager for New England ice cream and some of the other businesses associated with New England ice cream he's on the uh Zoom call with us tonight to help answer any questions that I can't answer he's been following the um the sound issues and the um you know for about the past I guess almost a year now until we got to this point sure so that's it from our team and I can bring up any of the other slides I guess I can bring up this one or this this one shows up the best because it's got the neighbors thank you um that's it for our presentation thank you so much okay and uh Paul from the staff perspective um we have this as a modification to the special permit was it noticed as a major modification already okay yes so you don't need us to make a determination about Major versus minor it's already been noticed and everything else the with the scale of the wall that was just that triggered it makes so there it it saves us one vote out of many that we will probably do so um the other question that I would have for the applicant is like look going through the asentech report which was again the consultant hired by the neighbors I'm going to forgive me if I go too give you too much of a basic version of the what I read from the engineering is that they said it looked like the sound wall would meet Mass St Mass sound standards but it was close and their suggestion was you should be ready to do a phase two if the state makes you um if do you agreee with that characterization A and B are you have you kind of built it for that potential additional phase if needed uh so so I can respond to that uh and the answer is yes and yes uh really what we had proposed in our application about a year ago I forgot the exact time frame was really also an expansion of the parking truck Court in the back an expansion of employee parking in the front of the building and with that expanded Park uh truck parking area yeah if you can put up that slide three uh maybe even slide yeah over there uh with that expanded truck parking area there will be an ex a new sound wall built around that truck uh Court area uh which will also further reduce uh the noise so again we didn't want to um to make the the new saw what what they're talking about right now in the special apartment much higher or longer when we felt that the noise was going to be further reduced by getting to that next phase and and actually moving the trucks further away from the property lined with a with a new sound wall around it okay thank you you're welcome any questions for members of the board here Steve uh my initial thought uh the wall is 22 feet tall how that so correct the wall is going like pretty much east to west with a little tilt to it we're on the Northern Hemisphere the shadow of that wall is going to be on the two houses in that trailer park closest to the wall pretty much all the time can you speak to just the setbacks of the wall and the property line and um yeah I can I can I can do that so the setbacks I think we're on the building St there's a lot of discussion going back with the neighbors and the Board of Health whether to the soundwall was best to be closer to the source or at the property line um and it's my understanding and Jamie you can correct me if I'm wrong that all of the neighbors felt that they would be better protected with the sound wall as close to the property line as they could get it as far as sounds concerned I agree agree but is that wall going to be casting a shadow on those houses 24 hours a day like well all throughout the Sunny Times is it blocking out I don't think there was any real discussion Rel related to sunlight or shadowing from the sound wall the discussions that we had with uh the town Board of Health as well as Norton State's Attorney and norn States residents was really about uh M mitigating the noise and what was the solution to that so it was never it was never brought up as it related to sunlight on a home or anything like that and just from a on the plan perspective we have the height of the wall how far is the wall from those residences the closest residences would be about you know um 20 to 30 feet the the red line is about 10 10 ft from the property line so that would be about another 20 20 to 30 feet on the closest house okay and then this this one here I'm coming down here where that would be about uh would be about 20 ft it's very similar maybe 20 feet maybe slightly less over here okay so it is it's pretty tight yeah however is is it true that this is sort of a trade-off to them if they don't want the shadow they would have the noise right well they as the applicants said they had discussions with what I'm getting it sounds like a trade-off they're okay with we'll we'll there a number of the neighbors are here so I can ask them to speak in a bit um yeah are there any further questions for members of the board at this point otherwise I'd go to um residents who either on the zoom meeting or here in person yeah I'd like to hear the neighbors just to clarify with the residents that were asked about the sound were they given the 22 foot height as part of their like that was the consideration yes okay okay cool yeah I'd like to hear their preferences okay um sure so again we have people if people are here in the zoom meeting would ask that you raise your virtual hand quote unquote there is that function in the zoom meeting um and we'll try and if there's people in here in person and virtually we can kind of go back and forth otherwise I know we do have people here in person so I'll ask whoever would like to come up first I saw you raise your hand already so please just come up and uh State just your name and address for the record please hi my name is Mike nle I'm the resident of uh Norton States I'm also the president of the park um I just when I raised my hand I actually was trying to clarify there's trees that run along that that are 25 ft High whatever so as far as the sun and all that it really isn't going to make much of a difference so we didn't really care about that we were more trying to get the sound eliminated if I hear the okay from you that that's great with me that's you know we trading like you said we're trading something for another and and right now it's the sound is the biggest issue so did you have anything else that you wanted to add in terms of the discussion in terms of anything else for us to consider the only thing I really like to add um is if this does get approved uh the only thing that I would request is um that we keep the Board of Health um involved as far as their requirements and stuff like that so we're not trailing off into saying let's go you know I want to keep the Board of Health involved in this if possible if it's an okay they would be for the sound perspective I believe they would be the enforcement agent so they are that's their job that's all I wanted to say so right great thank you okay Mr chair i' ask a question to Mr no I'm one of the board members has a question for mind hi just in looking at the butters list I happen to notice that a lot of the mailing addresses are not the resident addresses I just want to make sure that you feel that you're com able that the people that actually live in those homes have been heard and that we just didn't notify people who own it and are using it as a rental property there is no such thing as a rental property there every everyone there is a shareholder a co-op so there 100 it's a co-op there 123 units there okay there are 123 shareholders got it um and you know they're all families so there's actually more than 123 people living would you say they owner occupied though are the share holders all residing on site yes okay yes all right there mob home to stay in the mobile home park got it yeah there were it wasn't as if you know it was like a PO Box in Norton it was there in walpool and R them I get you just wanted to make sure they're all residents perfect that I perfect as long as we've heard from the residents you want anybody else here in person that wants to come up here okay I see some Spectators so I'll ramble for another 30 seconds or go so and see if anybody on the zoom meeting would like to raise their hand um while we wait for that if there's anybody else from the board who has any additional clarifying questions for the applicant I mostly just want to know how the residents felt everything to me okay so again this is public hearing so if we have no further questions for the applicant we would we would move to close and then we would move to vote on the modification itself motion to close a public hearing for MSP 4 second okay we have Allan with the motion and Rob with the second is there any further discussion on the motion to close the public hearing again after we close the public hearing on 222 Mansfield Avenue we would not accept further discussion or comments I'll say one more time is there any further questions comments from anybody here just make sure they're not not I only have one question yes David um after you close the public hearing is it okay for the applicant and or myself to assist you with any further voting or answer any questions or it is not so if there's anything else like to say I would ask you to say it now nope there's nothing that I would like to say we just don't want to violate the open meeting law the way you're closing the hearing I wanted to make it clear that we we are also not allowed to save you no worries I am happy to shush you if you forget we'll go to mute okay so we have a motion in a second to close the public hearing is there any further discussion on that motion okay all in favor of closing public hearing for 222 Mansfield Avenue please say I I all opposed extensions okay public hearing is now closed is there any further action that we would like to take motion approve M4 second okay and is that with standard conditions standard conditions okay we have a motion from alen and a second from Eric anything further I am assuming there will be subsequent testing of the wall once it's built and if not should we condition that I would assume that there would be um but we could certainly include that in a condition I'm not sure if that's something that put at the discretion of the Board of Health is that fair that's fair okay Alan would you accept that as a friendly addition yes okay any further discussion on the motion to approve with conditions okay hearing none all in favor please say I I I opposed extensions okay so we are approved on the MSP D4 modification and uh David Town staff will be in touch with you with the decision and process after this thank you very much everybody thank you thank you okay uh beautiful building by the way we get the screens in'll be even better thank have a good night good night next item on our agenda is site plan s-8 and special perate sp-13 this is 257 Mansfield Avenue it's an application for a 12824 ft training building with the owner of the National Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 104 building Corporation I see the applicant setting up as easel behind me um again this was also an original listed on our previous agenda on October the 29th but continued due to a noticing issue um so while they get set up Paul if you want to just give a quick introduction and because this is um well it's going if this going to be part of your Spiel anyway project stealing your thunder but as as it is right on the Mansfield line I know you did coordinate with Mansfield as well correct right so on that account um so we you're they're seeking a special permit for building for building over 10,000 squ ft or 25 parking spaces and a site plan approval for because they're over 2500 square F feet so they've also proposed work in Mansfield so they're simultaneously working with uh both towns uh Mansfield uh director said that the their planning board is waiting on on our concom on approval for storm water plant so Matthew who's setting up he'll be going into that so but they're looks like they're ready to go um conservation will be meeting uh in on November 25th will be their next meeting to talk about this permit including this the uh storm Order Plan uh it's being reviewed by Pat Brennan right now as their peer reviewer so uh this is also a project that straddles both sides of town line so they were uh they improvements on both so fortunately they have they provided us with information showing how both properties connect to each other so that was that was an important thing for us to be able to see that initially it was wasn't quite clear but they provided subsequent information that shows a nice clean connection to it so Matthew from bowler engineering is here from from your perspective we're not going to see anything coming out of Mansfield that affects our decisions but they'll see stuff from us that affects theirs particularly on storm water because the majority of storm water is on the Northern side of it uh and and the building you know the great majority of this is their training educational facility okay uh that that will complement the the building that's already on the Mansfield side okay perfect so not to steal too much of your thunder but perfect this it's an okay spot I feel bad everyone's craying their next that's okay have screens too for the record map home Bas with poer engineering we're representing the applicant who is um NES group who is the the architect for for the the owner who is the International Brotherhood of of Electrical Workers I'm sure most are familiar with with the site right up along the middle property line with with Mansfield not too far from the infinity Center on on 140 as as PA and was speaking this is actually their existing facility here I think it's about 5 years old it's pretty pretty new they they've owned this property in Norton which is the subject property and they want to use this as a um as a training facility um I think this building right now serves almost a dual purposes offices and they do a little training in there and they want to make this entirely office and that just basically their their training facility um The Proposal is for an 8,000 uh sare foot building it's about 12,800 ft of total grow floor area um just for for context the building itself is kind of a a h building so it has garage doors on on both sides and actually through the center of the building it's going to have a a twostory roof and they'll have poles in there for for training purposes and along each of the side they'll have kind of a a mezzanine where they'll have some different office and classroom spaces for for training um they they do pull training for for prospective lineman I'm certainly something I'm not qualified to even attempt to do but but these folks do um there's no electrical equipment there but they have kind of the the utility poll set up so that people can climb and learn how to do things safely um as far as classes they say they expect about 10 to 12 linemen in any given class um they said it'd be a very rare occasion that they would have two classes at one time or in one day they relatively small training groups um for these type of activities um they they do have a little bit of office space in there but it's not 9 to5 office spases office space for a teacher who might come in a little early and wants to prep for their class um and really no um interdependencies between the uses I think their hope is that this is primarily for for training purposes it's just got the classrooms in it so people that were are coming for training would come in and use this parking area this primarily for for office space I mean it is nice that they own both sides together in case they ever had a a need but um but not really any any interdependency between the two uses um as far as as parking um we did do a zoning calculation for parking spaces which is 21 parking spaces although it is a pretty unique use so we also wanted to kind of do the anecdotal what do they really need so we obviously worked with that with ibw and and talk to them about their classes and as as they notice about 10 to 12 people per class so they feel they have they have plenty of parking they want to be underp parked um some other features of the site um would be the parking here um they also have these outdoor pole area areas that were proposed over here on the the north side and along the the East back area here you've probably seen some of that stuff on site now they have kind of like little grael pull out and they have some po set up and this be kind of a little bit of an expanded area through there where they put in their poles and do their outdoor training um as far as traffic um not expected to be um a heavy traffic generator again just 10 to 12 people per class um no nighttime use no in and out someone would come they would train for the day and leave um SW below like do thresholds for for like traffic studies and those things um for Access they're proposing one access off the road here at the at the farthest side we selected this location if you're out on 140 it's not a tremendous amount of site distance issues but there is a little bit of a crust in the road account this way so it's just the most sight distance down there um and given that they own the site over here instead of trying to propose two accesses off of 140 would propose the interconnection to the to the existing facility so they do have a dual access but only the one new access off of 140 um we provided a photometric plan all downcast lighting LED fixture um fully cut off I know Paul did have a comment we had a little bit of extra liting coming note on to to mans build AB above the 0.1 threshold and we adjusted that um per zoning requirement um as far as Landscaping um I have planned here but it's uh meets the the zoning code um the required front ly set back is I believe 25 ft is based on the the distance from the building to the property line along this this front buffers um six Street trees are proposed and I believe 408 shrubs all kind of just lined along here to provide a good a good front buffer to the property and then additional trees and shrubs throughout the the remainder of the property um all Public Public Utilities Public Water Public sewer electric gas um from storm water um the site's proposed to be treated by a very large infiltration Basin under the under the parking lot in the front um that's where the majority of of runoff will go from the roof and from the parking areas we also proposed a a whale and a fireo retention area around the back here to collect some of those those back areas which wouldn't uh drain the gravity to the front um overall I think a reduction in Peak flows um volumes that report's been reviewed by the conservation's peer review we've responded and I think we're just waiting to wrap up that correspondence but I think we're 99% of the way there about 100% of the way there um last just to a quick update I know Paul mentioned where we've been we met with conservation on 107 like I can say that was cautiously optimistic that was a good discussion they wanted us to get through the peer riew process but I think we feel we've met some of the things they were looking for which is primarily um their locally jurisdictional disturb buffers um we've also met with the Sewer and Water Commission this actually this evening um and they gave us uh approval for the water and sewer connections um I believe fire was satisfied they did have a questionable providing an onsite hydrant which we did um and then the Manfield planning board met with them on on 109 and as was summarized I think they just want approval from Norton relative to any storm water that might be coming off the the Mansfield side before they they close things up um last but not least I will I will show just a quick uh elevation of the building if you've um driven through the area which I'm sure you have you've seen the the existing building I think their hope is just to match the the architecture of of that building I think it I don't know if I could have told you if this was the proposed to the existing building with that carefully but I think very similar um color architecture and finish last class in the other on um that was very very quick but happy to jump into more detail um anything questions on you mentioned the the parking and being underp parked is that Paul you had mentioned that as well are we below the zoning requirements A and B have you requested the waiver with you said the zoning board correct they are not below they readjusted the numbers so they're at the what our requirement is okay perfect additional questions from members of the board here about the proposal yes the Swale that is cturing water from where yeah sure I think and where is it sending it yeah sure so um the set is the whole um drops off quite a bit from Mansfield Road down to the back it does the areas here we able to collect and catch Bas and this underground infiltration Basin this area here is going to be a lot lower than than this area in the front Le a few feet so the S would be proposed along this right side of the gravel aess it would basically just collecting water from from the pole yard primarily it would collect it during it down to the bar retention area so it's just collecting area water from that area back there yeah just basically from from this point back essentially fair enough that's happening now today you said and Pat Brandon was doing storm water peer review for conservation yes I'm sure he gave you a laundry list of details to go through based on our previous work with him yeah very very very I spoke with him briefly very very nice very detailed so um we had no no concerns with his comments for sure no where that's sending the water water that falls in the area gets sent to the res oh it's going straight down the hill yeah so that's really not a change from today he's catching all the stuff up here and taking it elsewhere so guess to that point it should be capturing should be reducing the impacts of the reservo he is up here yes all this he's capturing and dealing with he said from here back and I'm sorry I'm pointing St place you put your hand yeah um so what Falls there was it goes to the res today went to the res this past weekend yeah right right it will be treated by a b retention area before being discharged on nice to change something into a conforming lot for once thought that was a lovely little property down there that little on story home and all looks like that's going away but yeah yeah or was lovely little property in a horrible location if you look out the back it's such a wonderful view over res oh it is and the property itself's really nice but where they're sitting yeah yeah the the IB EV whatever I EU building probably has the best Sunrise view probably the people who per charge pick those back offices people right to look at 140 okay additional questions comments are we looking to close the public hearing tonight we're going to keep this open until conservation finishes just in case or I would agree with that that's our option um we can talk about that we can as the applicant feels that there's nothing that's going to change and we can close we can do that if we so choose um I was before we do that I was going to make sure there was no public comments yes no but I was going to say I I'm just thought I'd like to let conservation can we just condition it with the opinion that if they're into peer review and they're already in discussions and he's comfortable with peer reviews comments yeah we can we're almost there yeah we can definitely condition it if we want we can choose that we don't want to act for conservation if we want obviously if we close the public he an issue a decision and stormw comes back with oh my gosh we completely forgot about this thing this changes our entire design you would have to come back here for a modification so we wouldn't close it unless you were okay with it at this point in the stage so yeah yeah and again certainly up to the board our purpose of course be to close it um and I think having reviewed the the stone water letter is very very technical a lot of them numbers but there was no you need to move this or you need to move that or this Bas you know move anything like that yeah so we can we can choose to continue we can choose to make a conditional that's up to us so you okay with conditional okay so before we take any action I'll ask if there's anybody who' like to make any comments from members of the public who are here either in the audience in person or on the zoom meeting and again and I'll ramble for 30 seconds or so to see if anybody needs to find the mute button uh are you looking to speak or are you just okay just making sure I didn't mean to put you on the spot okay so again not seeing any public comments at this time the applicant has stated that they are okay public closing the public hearing if we are that is ultim our decision I like a motion to close second we have a motion from and a second from Steve to close the public hearing is there any further discussion on the motion to close the public hearing again after we close the public hearing we will not take any further comments questions Etc from the applicant members of the public so anything else you'd like to add now would be the time no I would just thank Paul and all the staff I think the experience working Norton was pretty pretty wonderful from all different boards so so things to Paul for all this time spread the word out of 50 ain't bad not bad okay so we have a motion in a second to close the public hearing hearing no further discussion on the motion all in favor of closing the public hearing please say I I all opposed extensions okay so the public hearing is now closed and further action motion to approve seconded okay and conditions with a condition condition I standard conditions and then contingent on conservation correct we need two motions here special Andy yes we yes we do um and Paul I was going to ask if there's any other conditions based on review that you think we should include at this point no no okay so my motion will be on the special permit because we need to too and then I'll make the same motion the S plan okay get out theable need to do one at a time yes we do okay I just want get home we have motion to approve the special permit with conditions and again contingent on conservation approval and we had a second is there any further discussion on the motion okay hearing none all in favor please say I I all opposed extensions okay motion on this on the site plan yes thank you okay trouble spitting it out that's okay okay and we have a second okay and we have motion and a second for spr d8 any further discussion on that motion okay all in favor please say I I I opposed extensions okay we have conditional approval um and as I said with the last applicant uh Paul will be in touch regarding the process and next steps and anything else that you need and uh CLC in conservation a couple weeks sounds thanks everybody for thank you good night okay final item on our agenda this evening prior to getting into future meeting dates is continuation on our discussion regarding the mbaa communities discussion uh here I said discussion about three times in that sentence um so after our last session we basically gave Paul the go- ahead to Begin work on developing public information session for next month to dive into this so Paul did you want to give just an update to that and we have some members of uh different boards here with us sure and um so we're making progress so thank you all for replying for the two choices the two dates we're going to go with December 4th because that's the one everyone has said they can do the the week later some of you two or three of you couldn't make it so we're going to go for December 4th and we're going to do it in the crane room that reserved um so so tonight I just want to go over some updates of where we've been I've been Brian and I have been working a lot on this on this event again this is as we presented it a couple weeks ago this is an event where the public will come in and show us where they would like to see this this District um so the exercise is going to focus on them putting putting dots on the map um and and showing and we're going to use laen sigle had a great idea about color coding it and using dots to determine what color is your high priority down to your low so we would just at this point we're testing using three dots to see if that works um we actually had a small test today uh we've got some changes to make nothing nothing super big but um testing it with folks in in town hall to make sure this works so um for good takes what were the steps in the test I'm just curious I'm sorry what were the steps for testing for testing steps uh we did a live walk through with them I'm going to show I've got some things to show so you can okay well yeah so you can see it and to answer Tim's question we asked the assessors yeah so they know a little bit more uh when we do another another go through we're going to go with some people who don't know quite as much about planning and land use so um this is a I'm going to just show you all a very it's a very bad illustration uh why is it not coming up it wasn't hard pry here don't worry there okay sorry just needed to get that shared so the idea I just want to start with this illustration is bran do you want to spin around here because I don't think anybody can see the uh is to have this exercise set up where um again we're in the crane room and we have we're working on U the dot map itself the exercise map but also then using the maps that serpent created all those suitability Maps surrounding the table um includ you know including the suitability maps the zoning map I think an aial of the area will be really important so people get a context of it so the IDE is they come in they take a look at the maps helps them understand the context and hopefully helps them decide where do they think this would be the where would be the ideal the best locations of their preference not suitable but their preference and so they would dot vote on the exercise map and then there are two comment boards that would be there too to get a little deeper understanding of the dots one would be where did you put your top priority Dot and why did you put it there the other would be if you didn't place a DOT why not that way if we get people in who don't want to put a dot don't want this they have an opportunity to to communicate that and you know again our goal is to try to understand where people are on this where they would like to see it and this way we should be getting a pretty clear a vision visual understanding of where people would like it or or not um but I think we need to have that opportunity for people to look at um to look at that so will the information provided also include other um suggestions that have been made by I'm thinking it's a clean slate but I want everybody who's who's put their ideas to to put them on the map I just think you suggested that we'd be there to guide people they want and be there so I mean we are residents and we can put our dots on on the map as well right so yeah yeah I mean there were good suggestions people came up with and and I just I I my preference my thought and experience would be let the public get in there but again as as members you all your residents you're you're eligible to put it on there put your dots on there but these things were formed and there was a lot of public feedback already on on the suggestions that were put out you've got you've got feedback from the public you've had feedback from the boards are we just simply saying we're not going to hear any of that and this is a start over the direction we heard from at town meeting was we wanted to have a new we wanted another shot at this have a public hearing and let the public help weigh in on it did you feel like you got feedback in the fincom selectboard meeting not on new locations not really we had some thoughts put out there feedback from the residents the citizens of nordon already I I think I think we got some especially at our last yeah session before Mee ideas have been discussed there's more coming to light but we deserve a a new exercise where everybody gets to participate where all the boards get to come in discuss their ideas where residents come in let me come on the table how I proceive this I feel like we got a lot of feedback we didn't like what it said so we're pushing it aside SE any of the feedback that no and that is my perception of what's going on here is we didn't like the feedback we got so we're throwing it out and we're trying to see if we can get ourselves new different feedback I don't think we've done any we haven't taken a batch of feedback and sorted through it thoroughly up but we have received it we received nothing Fe received nothing we have not this is a board this isn't one person don't talking really yes please he is talking Ahad I think this already getting too tested I agree that we've had some feedback that has to go into a batch of more and more feedback with everybody involved going through it and I think we still have an opportunity to present what we have get the select board's opinions on it get the fincom opinion get a bunch of residents we might have 20 people show up we might have a 100 people show up and all of their opinions need to go into this too your Maps my maps all can be suggested at some point we and they all go in I think we should probably be doing that outside the event I I'm not going to do anything outside the event I'm going to participate in a formal setting where it's supposed to and I think we all got to put the ideas on the table I've made Maps I want people to look at them I hope they take some of my suggestions but aund residents might disagree with them and they need to put their opinion in or or and there's nothing stopping us from I mean I know in the last session gerl senior said what about on 123 near adoro and a couple other ideas as well so none of those ideas are gone just for the purposes of this event we want people to give their input there's nothing that says the feedback that received before is no good in any way shape or form and that's how I feel and if we went through this exercise and we come to town meeting with something the public feels they were not heard and they don't like it we would get voted down again that correct if the public felt that way that is how that would play out correct that would be my expectation and okay and so let's say they do that except now it's spring and we've lost a lot of time and you know I feel like you're playing chicken with these grants where I if we just formed a plan that took the feedback we've gotten we had the school board wanted it split up we've had people they want the bare minimum um both in the verbiage and in the lots and if we put together something like that we could bring in the town meeting I think your chances of getting your yes vote on that are extremely good I don't think they're good on what the way you're trying to approach it and then we're not playing chicken we're not jeopardizing these grants and things which you've said are very important so I I think increases your chances of saving your grants if you do what I'm recommending here I think let's see I'll just say this is my perception so my perception from town meeting was we don't like what was presented to town meeting start over h that's what I took as the message um I think that in my opinion and everybody feel differently for us to put together what could be perceived as a rush and something that doesn't may not capture the feedback that we want to get would create even more of a negative perception of what is this board doing we told them no they dusted everything off made it look a little bit different and came back to us with the same thing what would they think that at all I think see the message I heard the message I heard was not so much start over it really was to come back with a plan that met the minimums there were some people in there and I don't support this they just tell the state to go away um I don't support that just for the record but um I felt like the feedback even in the town meeting was very strong they just want to see a plan that beats the minimums they'd like us to place these Lots in a way where it's not really a net change to Norton and I did that slide on exactly what I heard from people it's not a net change to Norton um or you know a lot of people want to do where it just you know it will never get built that is actually a little more popular um than the know net change yeah we were given an opportunity to come up with something we tried we did an Earnest effort it got denied this is the most democratic way to go forward where everybody has a chance at input that's what I heard at town meeting was not enough people were involved I think more people involved will be fine if there's if everybody agrees on the map after it still be it I I don't agree about the decision we're not going to change each other's minds yeah I I have no expectation of anything at town meeting being fine ever Tom be could spend half an hour deciding where to put a perod in a sentence so or we can pass a budget without even talking about it that too in a minute U so but yeah so the overall idea is community feedback input session on December the 4th and then after that we would proceed to take all of those comments feedback and bring it back to this board for more public can I just right can I can I just add to that cuz this is just part of the plan so we would have the community input session but we would also be notifying participants to come to the planning board meeting which I would suggest we start in early January you do have a late a mid December meeting but I just think you don't want to do a Comm you know something like that so close to the holidays but you're so you're early January could be your first session after the event to then look at the results of the of the exercise and then start working on to those points like where are the specific Parcels that we want if if this area and this area the two real hot areas and start working on with that that could that really gives a a a flashlight as to where the people who came out attended and you can work with that to determine what Parcels in in those areas would be yeah you know Parcels though or areas are you just you're looking at the public just to say what end general area yeah yeah absolutely and when you say what end of town are you still looking for a single place to put all of this no okay be and I don't want to lead the I don't want to be leading anyone at that event uh my instructions will be much more General because again at the end of the day you you put it your dots in the areas where you'd like to see it we just have information but the suitability maps zoning and you make your you make your decision based on that let's take what of I let's say people put the dots all over they they liked when I presented to using the apartments along 140 so they put the dots there you're saying it's an area so people putting dots there saying yeah I want it on these Parcels okay what's to stop you from saying the TPC lot right across the street is in that end of town that's a great question and that's where it's important to get people to continue because we need to Market this too is this is not going to be this event in early December it's not a dialogue I mean people should talk with each other for sure but there's no one presenting anything big but then when it comes to the specifics like that please go to the planning board meetings that's that's where that happens we just at this point trying to get a sense where in town people would like to see it and yeah when it comes to the specific Parcels we want people there and I we want the public to show up and continue to tell us this is where we would like to see it I think that's that's I think that's where we're going to get some of the okay we the school board gave us feedback we want to split it up they want it split up yeah so how does that map work with if we're look at okay this area was highlighted this area was highlighted what Parcels there actually make sense how can we split it up how do we make the math work and that's where our work after the session I think is going to be and also the feedback we got for the public was of whatever we did they did really want PA minimum yes nobody liked this open up the door and give it on to the stat or try and see how much we can give them they didn't yeah and that's those things will come up um at the planning board hearings that's again that's where the details are are really going to be but the other thing too that um hopefully will give us some insights is again when they put the dots down it's also helpful it it could be very helpful when they tell us why did they put it where they did they should you you'll need dot cops person puts a DOT down make sure it stays there oh right yeah you have a large roll a lot of people Milling around well we we and we'll take pictures at the end of the night to make sure falls off I'm talking about during the night you're going to want have somebody staying there going no no no you're pick you know nobody picks one back up or anything like that oh okay we'll have we'll have but yourself yeah so another yeah I I am familiar with young children trying to bend the rules all every day of my life so I'm familiar with adults doing it too and also this is Sim to the north master plan that we had back in 2019 in which your truly was a part of it and got creative thank you Peter I think we do need a SWAT though however if we had 20 people say I don't want this anywhere my vote I prefer this nowhere in town I think we need a basket or an area on the table so someone could put all their dots saying no I this is my opinion want it anymore we do we'll have a we'll have the comment board or we could even just say put your dot off outside of Norton but also write it up on the board um you know what that you didn't and why not I I would like to see like a sort of a anti map I'd like to see people put dots where they absolutely don't want it good thought that would be nice contrast um you'll need six colors now we can have a lot of preference that's doable I mean there might be a grouping of dots where absolutely nobody wants it in some neighborhood or something like everybody's G to go put their dots pile right on their house it doesn't have to go on the same map but do different map side by side we just do different color color dots yeah that that's not an issue yeah that's something that we can you can include in your next round of tests maybe call to see if that works or if that confuses people or not no so you were trying to get comments in it I that is chance too I spoke you don't have to speak for me I'm not I'm offering you a chance please you don't need to offer me a chance okay then moving on moving on he runs moving on moving on Tim just move on move on I take it back move on okay U Paul is there any other overview about the event that you wanted to give otherwise we have some other people here that ask them just to sure just just a couple things um once this hasn't been announced yet so starting tomorrow we'll put it out there I've got a Facebook I mean a a web page project page ready to go we'll do a Facebook um event and I would it would be great to know what Facebook pages we should be posting it too I've got a a big list but if you all have I'm pretty well versed on what there is for Norton sits I'll give you the list I'll send that email yeah that would be great so we want to blast it out there we're also going to create a one pager and we'll go to local businesses and use a QR code for you know let people and and you want to because there's some that you know I'm not a member out there something not supposed to know about but I can give you a full list yeah whatever whatever you all are comfortable with but I have things like Neighbors Peter wig wi Peter Channel Facebook Twitter and YouTube and also W radio right so you can just ask people to just share it as well yeah yes to their own Fe I will say I am not a Facebook expert no I haven't been on it in years I me if if the board just writes they're going then everybody that the board knows there's notifications to other people he Steve's going to this event and it will draw attention from other people yeah that'll that's Word of Mouth the way Facebook is made is from that type of major thing it she's right it will spread okay okay well we'll get that out okay so thank you Paul um help with anything probably a lot I'm available just ask okay thank you you're welcome so I have a couple members of Select board and finance committee here and then wanted to comp and just give any comments about the plan so far anything else they like to add otherwise you want I'm happy to take anybody's opinion Roger Mar um just like to say that uh um I appreciate the opportunity that you're giving the uh public to have input on this um I'm sorry that I wasn't involved earlier in this whole process um and uh I'm sure that you'll have a much clearer picture of where the Public's hoping to go with this whole project in the future so I I appreciate your efforts and thank you for opening it up to the public okay if you're good my words were the same as as Rogers I want to thank you and the board for everything they did leading up to uh trying to get you know a plan together um and Pa for all his hard work on it as well and uh you know thank you for everything and I think this a good direction moving forward you're here you can speak or you can sit there and I think my opinion may be a little different um but that's part for the course um first of all thank you all for the work you've done I mean it's a lot of work I've said that before to you um but I think at least from the people I'm talking to in town friends and you know neighbors I think it's a Miss I think the majority of people and my crystal balls broken but this is just the you know the people I talk to don't want it at all uh so you can do this exercise Paul that's fine but you have 100 people you're going to get 100 opinions and you're going to have dots it's going to look like uh I I don't know what when you're done with it for me I'm looking for the planning board to say okay you guys come up with a place where it's the mo least likely forever for it ever to be developed people don't want it I think that's what you're going to find as a majority you guys come up with the I don't know zoning at all you know this is probably my first zoning meeting I find it boring to be perfectly honest with you uh but put it in the area where it's the least likely to be developed you know and I said to you when you came to the finance committee put it atck landfill whatever some place where no developer was going to touch it and I think that's the direction that I'm going to take a wild guess here i' say that most of the most of the residents want they don't want it when you proposed it on Prime real estate on Mansfield have you know where this you know all the utilities are there there's sewer there put it somewhere where there is no sewer put up as many roadblocks as possible so it doesn't get developed people don't want this place to look like as I said in the meeting Chelsea or Brockton or whatever it may be they came into Olivia for a reason they like the country you know uh uh and that that's what I think you're going to get but that's just one man's opinion okay thank you got to shoot down my plan too because my plan did try and accommodate the state yeah no it's when we ask for public comment the public comment we get could be no anywhere on the Continuum of what we're of what we'll see and that's what we're trying to get here so uh Brian did you have your hand up just for I don't know him can can you just St Z till the three Rich he's on the finance committee as well for I just haven't the finance committee i l i I was going to say look at the webite spell that huh I was going to say look at the website to spell it because I was G give up so okay so um comments anything further Paul that you wanted to say in advance of this anything else that you need from the board at this point hope if if something comes up I'll I'll coordinate with you Tim okay certainly what time is the session on the fourth oh I was thinking of it as an open house between 600 and 8 okay thank you actually call I was going to ask you about that so because the Assessor's um test run took about 40 minutes do you think maybe we should push it for three hours no I think I think I think just a thought just a thought that was a test so I'm not going to throw people out at eight right no it goes over it goes over right and it and it's not a bad thing if two people are trying to look at the same thing at the same time and the dialogue starts between them and they start having that discussion I that's a that's a great outcome if that happens yeah no and sometimes the people are not going to agree I've been uh had an interesting discussion with Bob kimmell and Joe Fernandez going head-to-head on a couple of different things and different viewpoints that was one of the advantages of having sured run the master plan sessions is there was somebody at every station who didn't let you just put a sticker down and walk away like they they made they wanted to drill down and get into it so there's no action needed from the board at this point so we'll move ahead just looking at everybody and seeing yes okay so our next thing on our agenda this evening is future meeting dates so Paul what do we have booked so far is it just through December through December yes so we're January in 2025 somehow um so I believe we can go back to 645 if that's agreeable with the board I think we have to go that's he was the one I'd rather keep this cuz I my work I I have this is even TI for me to get I know I was early today but usually I'm R the wi get here sorry so Rob is um saying that 715 is better for him so of course no that's okay but yeah no it's uh I used to commun the commu from Boston that was always it just hope it wasn't late on Tuesdays which it was always late so okay so in January and Tuesdays um for Tuesdays we have four of them we have seven 714 21 and 28 um the last December is the 17th it looks like yeah we don't want anything at the end of December for obvious reasons yep go early in January then since we'll been a while yeah we're getting that that time anyway application could come in seventh yes but said be 7 and 21 right 7 and 21 or 28 if we choose it's up to 721 going once going twice okay so on the 21st President's day is the 17th president day is the 17th so we're on the 21st we want to say the 4th and the 25th does it matter that according to this inauguration day is the day before does that matter anymore in January yeah no I okay this thing wrong inauguration never mind no the inauguration days is on yeah much ear I don't know why is telling me it's on this date it's not my Andre yeah but um Martin Luther King Jr day is the day before before yeah um thing for February I generally try to avoid scheduling meetings during February school break oh that's what that is I was GNA say what does President's Day have to do with oh I didn't know what President's Day had to do with us for those of us with with young children got it that's school vacation no let's accommodate that what is the what are the so I would say that's the 17th the week of the 17th is February break so I would suggest if we're on January the 21st maybe the 4th and then go to the 25th unless anybody wants to do the fourth and the 11th no or 11 and 25 we could do that too either one I'm indifferent to between those two okay you want to do feel like Eric has the preference we three weeks just my idea a bias for it but I have no no real reason I prefer her's idea because it's spoken if we say yes to it good let's see so we're saying the 11th and the 25th yeah let me just check uh well that's not going to matter the 25th was one of the dates anyway I will potentially be traveling on February the 25th but that would just mean somebody else would lead in my stad that would be the time to go to Phoenix Tim no I'll be in Dallas we have a b sorry right just so would you feel more comfortable with fourth and 11 then I don't have a preference okay so do we want to say 11:25 is that our okay okay and zoom in from a hotel room I'm dve at the airport can't zoom in from an airport we'll see um so 25 um then it would be the same thing in March it would be the same thing in March if we did two weeks it would be the 11th and then it would be the 25th question is do I want to have a planning board meeting on my birthday or not which one is your birthday bring cake 11 which 11 okay no we'll bring a cake let's not try to lose weight um so if we're on the 25th preferences for March liveth being your birthday you need a little more respect than that you want us to shift this around somebody say something here you planning on going out for your birthday I don't know it's a Tuesday I mean yeah I did we can take them out after there you go birthday beer after let's do that so 11:25 March yep 11 and 25 okay yeah okay do the 11 Media Center said go cities right downstairs okay ail Patriots Day of believe is in the TW is the 21st April 21st yep April 21st so we would skip April break week again if we're on March the 25th then we would do the Easter week as well yes it is also Easter week okay so do we want to say and 22 8 and 29 I might have a conflict 29 yeah the 22nd is going to be that e Easter week April break it's Easter and then Patriot Day back to back I've got a conference the 29th and the 30th and or is it no oh wait is it not about just wait a second I'm I'm off on that I think I think their opposite begins so Patriots Day is the 21st that's Easter Monday so that's Easter week okay so I was right they were on the same weekend I thought I was going crazy for a second um so we're on the 255th of March we skip the first we could do the eth and then we could do the 29th we do 18 15 or one and 15 29 was bad for you though right I have a conference I'm not booked at it but it's probably likely I will be oh oh we can do 1 in 15 April fools day I'm okay with it are we cele we can have a rule that we leave that out at as long as you guys are okay with having meetings back to back back back yeah we're at this point we're going to have it's going to be back to back just but saying one and 15 is that our I'm okay with that 1 and 15 or 8 and 15 just depends where you do the back to back the 15 is tax day if anybody cares Le once my calender tells me it's telling me that too so it's actually the 16 we're saying one and 15 is that our one and 15 okay you're only just your taxes that day I don't have any pity for it actually before we say that when is April elections I don't know yet but it's it's usually the last week isn't it yes last week so so that that's probably good then so we skip so we don't do that and then do we want to should we still schedule our first May meeting it makes sense to schedu well we do have at least three members who are turning over in April oh I see so is the 26th when that boat will be yeah around then so maybe do we want to pencil in our first May meeting and we can reevaluate when we get closer I think so so for the 15th it should be early May so maybe the thinking maybe I mean if there's going to be a transition it might be worth May the 6th yeah be 6th and then why don't we pencil in the 6th and the 20th for May and that keeps us away from Memorial Day Weekend yep y more days May 26 um oh yeah and got SLE de you getting it out here the Scot free it's the day after I know I know yes um does that work for everybody okay um and once we program those in we also go out as calendar invites yeah so if anybody didn't take notes as we were going through this me we' got um we'll have all those so we can mark them on all of our individual calendars appropriately that was helpful thank you yeah thank you very much this helps us when we get new applications in yeah and if as long as we're far enough out if we get somebody if we get to a point and somebody says in a few weeks hey my boss just told me I'm going to be in De Moine for half of the month of March then we can evaluate as long as we haven't noticed anything this is all for us so okay is there anything else anybody wanted to yeah my agenda says we're done is there anything else any want to discuss this evening Mo to a Jour I'm looking forward to our next meeting is when I looked at you and see there's a fun special permit coming up which one is it somebody wants a horse they have horses according to the satellite imagry they do they do we just couldn't find a special permit for it itself okay this is a new owner so motion to adjourn you have a motion you have a second wasn't that meeting tomorrow codification that's what he was talking about do we have a do we have a second on the motion second okay any further discussion on the motion to adjourn hearing none all in favor please say I I opposed extensions thank you very much everybody