we are at 7:15 here so welcome everybody to the Norton planning board's meeting of Tuesday April the 16th uh as posted this is a remote participation Zoom meeting only so thank you everybody for joining us uh for those viewing who would like to uh VI via TV I would like to join via the Zoom app the meeting ID is 6389 29106 there's also phone number should you wish to dial in directly for future sessions please feel free to email questions for the board ahead of the meeting to Brian carmichel Town staff uh and they can be entered into the record or submitted to the board in advance with that I'll call the meeting to order and I will start out by welcoming back Paul Paul dppi who is the uh planning and economic development director for at the town of Norton once again uh so Paul thank you for uh joining us again and hopping on the meeting on your first day uh we obviously we obviously know that you've seen all of these discussions in depth uh in the six hours that you've been on duty today so bringing back good memories memories anyway yes but uh we are definitely glad to have you back with uh back with us here and uh looking to having continued discussions as we move forward here um so with that out of the way we're g dive into our agenda this evening rep Laura we do hear your microphone thank you um we don't have any bills or warrants to approve or um minutes to approve at this time um so diving into our agenda again this is carved off from the agenda we had originally planned for last week but there was a question in terms of us meeting open reading law requirements um so we're going to start with um an update we have from sered um providing us an update on the mdta communities um parallel work that they've been doing for the town uh so I see a number of people from surpet on the call um so if you can Dive Right In we'll go from there yeah thank you hi uh my name is Robert cabal I'm joined by Chris Welsh uh Hey so um for those of you maybe on on television um who who don't know us we have we're at surpad the south eastern regional planning and economic development District we're the regional planner for Norton uh thanks Chris for pulling pulling that up uh so alongside nordon um we've applied for and received two grants from the Massachusetts housing Housing Partnership to provide technical assistance to explore potential NBTA multif family districts uh the short version of that for again for folks just tuning in uh it's kind of it's that no cost to the town uh we're just we're looking at sort of the real possibilities the way that won and other communities throughout South Eastern Massachusetts can can look at compliance with the requirements for multi family districts through 3A um so really what again what that means for nordon is that this technical assistance we want to find the right path for Norton and work with the planning board here and other stakeholders in town um and just find what the best way that that fits with with the way that the tel mon see itself developed that that we can do that so quick recap of where we left off um I think it was is it on here November something of last year 24th 14th something like that we were at this planning board and we presented uh because nordon has not really any directly suitable multif family ready districts we looked at just a townwide a range of locations that we produced this map that you see here and we highlighted really three sites based on a range of criteria from proximity to Transit walkability avoiding you know critical natural features in town uh presence of key utilities and the first one and if I remember correctly I think the board did respond most most favorably to this Mansfield Avenue site uh the reasons for that um proximity to the Mansfield Station I think there was some discussion of of the smaller parcel size for a portion of this that that we liked um of course the presence of utilities next site we highlighted was the Western portion of Route 123 uh similarly this one's close to the adabor station but it did lack some of those utilities and last if I remember this one was sort of the the least popular option was the Nord and Center option um and while there's a lot of quality of life uh amenities here um you know it doesn't have that access to the transit and some of the other things the board is looking for so we're happy to cover any of these in in more detail and talk a little further about them but just to kind of again kind of outline the Contour of of what we think maybe would be the best X St with discussion uh as we move into that next phase of achieving compliance uh we would want to like pick one of these sites or another it or anything uh I've heard discussion of the read Barton site that one is a possibility but the challenge if we did pick that one for example would be talking to the con to make sure something like that's not viewed as too onerous because of the remediation potentially that would be required so that's why it's not on these three key sites but again if there's another one we'd be happy to look at that um but we pick ideally one of these three sites or another site and then we want to hone in on that exact boundary which Parcels do we really want to include um and and Define sort of that shape and then we would also want to look if you don't mind scrolling down a little bit here Chris um the mechanisms that we want to consider so what what do we mean by that um we have here at 4dr uh Paul Paul reminded us actually that the road to compliance using 40R is is long so if we you know it's a good readymade tool it's a great tool for compliance but we would probably want to talk to the Commonwealth and see what what that Runway looks like um within the context of if it's too long uh that might not be possible or it might be challenging at the very least what does that leave us with another option something like a local locally initiated overlay District which is something many towns pursue it's not as get made it doesn't have the cash payments associated with 4dr but it does provide greater flexibility and control um so if we did look at a local overlay district for example some of those things we'd want to discuss is just kind of a list here is do we want to have like an inclusionary component I looking at um providing a mandate for subsidized housing I think you can do through a local one 10% requirement that number is kind of worth keeping in our heads because it keeps Pace with the current Shi you know we all I think know or many of us know that Nord and subsidized housing inventory is around 10% so if we make a district that produces more units and it stays at 10% that's sort of soort to speak treading water with that number otherwise you boo ground um of course all the benefits of providing subsidized housing for those in in town who who want a place to live you know uh and need something at that price point is is is another is number one great reason to do that too um open space considerations how do we want to think about open space in town um do we want additional uses alongside multif family bught that's that key requirement that we have is multif family bu right but do we want to allow mixed use for example or commercial alongside we need to just provide that clear Avenue for multif family housing by right that's the goal of the district but not to say there aren't parallel tracks that one could follow we could give every developer the option of doing mixed use and multi you just don't want to foreclose that option for multif family only um so that there's that's something to consider and then you know we've been ruminating and I'm not sure what folks on the on the board have discussed in terms of that smaller parcel that's that's one that we haven't come across in other towns but trying to like make sure we being thoughtful about that if that is still a priority and maybe looking at something like subd districts and grouping together a subdistrict the smaller Parcels with a set of controls that applies for that because the obvious risk that I don't think we quite got into in the previous discussion because there was a lot a lot that we had to cover is how do we not incentivize a developer to just buy four or five of the parcel St them together and propose something large so are there ways that we could set up controls with a subd district of smaller parcels and then to achieve compliance let's say we we do look at the Mansfield AB we probably want to include something like the um the RO Brothers parcel which is probably around six acres or so and maybe the rules for developing that is different like the maximum size for the building that could go on there in terms of units would be bigger to keep up with that 15 UPA and let's just hypothetically say you have several one acre Parcels you could have a I don't I don't know you have to look into this but maybe 16 uh unit Max on those or something like that so you keep up with the 15 UPA on that so just some some stuff to think about it's just an example but some districts could achieve many many things if we wanted to to do something like that um so uh with all that considered one of the mechanisms especially if you end up we're using our local initiated even if we're doing four yards this model bylaw the Commonwealth has provided it's a great resource it does just tell us sort of day facto things that we know will be allowed um in a great starting place that will be 3A compliant because they provided this bylaw so we can you know make this available for everyone in town who wants to learn a little more about this and you know kid say it's the most fun thing to read but does provide a lot of information and so that's going to be maybe our starting place um and just as a reminder of of some of those requirements I I'll kick it off to Chris who can remind us of of some of won's obligations under 3A just again to frame frame the discussion that that we're probably gonna have yeah of course thanks Rob um for those of you that haven't met me my name is Chris Welch uh I'm with sired as Rob said I'm G to quickly go over Norton's obligations under Section 3A um for those unfamiliar uh in today's call um section 3A is of Mass General law 4A essentially what it's saying is that uh an NBTA Community shall have a zoning ordinance or bylaw that provides for at least one District of reasonable size in which multif family housing is per as permitted as of right um so essentially what the major aspect of the law is saying and it's important to note this um before going into any further discussion is that this is not a mandate to build this is a mandate to create capacity for multif family housing um so the expectation is that overnight 750 units aren't going to be developed it's more of creating that capacity to be able to produce more multif family housing um so in Norton's context uh it's considered an adjacent Community um so some of the requirements that go along with that in include um a need for as Rob stated 15 UPA or 15 units per acre um a minimum land area of a of a district needs to be at least uh 50 acres um multif family needs to be permitted as a right uh with no age restrictions uh so basically how they get to the 750 unit calculation is um for every one acre you need 15 units so 50 acres the math on that gets you to 7 150 units um so um as Rob said we have a few different um avenues that we can look at that we'd very much like your feedback on uh including those three sites and including any other um sites that you might have in mind um so yeah and uh as a result of getting this funding award through the Massachusetts Housing Partnership sured has conducted an analysis of the Town zoning uh existing zoning I should say housing stock demographics and on the ground development patterns um which we will be summarizing in in different materials that will be disseminated as a result of the work that's done here um yeah so Rob correct me if I'm wrong I think we kind of leave it open to the board now to discuss um their thoughts on this yeah thanks Chris if any if you want us to kind of jump back through or dive into any of the things we went over in more detail or if there's any particular part of this discussion that resonated with with you all that that you wanted um clarification on but yeah just just let us know how we can chime in and answer any questions or or help with with the decisionmaking process here uh but I would think probably the best outcome is to get as close as we can if not outright I don't know again where you all are at it's been a while but thinking about which of those three districts or or a different one that we would want to pursue um but again it's really whatever works best for ort so just to to clarify so the decision point that we're looking for today is General agreement on a district and you said there above that there were some other things for the town to consider in the zoning mechanisms and consideration section absolutely so are you looking for a decision from us any of those any of those specifically or is that still keep thinking about those as we move forward the process the first thing you mention would be ideal again I'm we're not here to put pressure on the town to move any faster than you all want to but that would be we could certainly run in the background and and get some things going if we if we know there's a district that we liked and and I did again I'm not sure it's changed but I feel like I remember we it felt like there was close to consensus at the last meeting so if you guys are comfortable discussing that first we can see how far this discussion takes us we can again talk a little bit about pros and cons of of some of those more Nuance points too if we if we want to get into that sure yeah if you want to go scroll up higher to show the districts themselves and just um obviously that's the Mansfield Avenue one and then Western portions Route 123 and then the other one was the center um I think that uh I think as you mentioned um I think our original preference was towards the Mansfield Avenue one in the initial in the meeting we had a few months ago um does anybody have any additional comments questions oh definitely say let's stay away from the center and pick either the 140 or the 123 I think that's what makes the most and I think that's if I remember where we were last time we talked about it yeah I agree avoid the center completely it's a historic district it's going to get the most uh like resentment from the town uh near the Mansfield line where Tweeter is is perfect it's already Prett established as a busy area next to the highway I think that's ideal the chly end is somewhat reasonable but it is in a way a another historic district of town and it's I'd hate to see the district change too much but yeah the the Manfield end is perfect I just want to restate too for the public I'm not sure if there's anyone on the call or not I haven't looked that the state is forcing this down our throats um it's not something that we're doing our own bition um the state is mandating us to do this by a certain point and there are heav heavy penalties if we do not complain F and there are other there are other municipalities I think Milton specifically is one that is uh playing that game of chicken with the state right now yes I gave them a lot of credit I had a question real quick as far as the multif family are we allowed to uh only permit a multif family up to like four units in one building or does it have to allow it to continue to any level I think that's a really good question and one that I was spending a little time because I remember that you in particular had that question about you know looking at which I think is a good like you know planning principle to look at dense smaller Parcels um again it really depends what you guys want and what what's best for D but you know it's it's a good inclination to me in my professional opinion and one of the ways that that what you're thinking of seems to be a way we could approach it I got to dive through and make sure it's not but we didn't really see anything when we did a review today that prohibits that and that's that same idea of like the subdistrict if we look at sort of the left of the page where there's some of the smaller Parcels here yeah if we cap that at again let's just hypothetically say it's a one acre parcel let's just say 16 units per acre on those Parcels a subdistrict a and then we've got that Wish Brothers parcel there right across um 140 that you have a different set of controls there and that would permit a larger building that's more contextual with the site I we we have we can talk with the Commonwealth and make sure that's a permissible thing and review some some other districts that have that have had um you know approved approved plan some of them have like a lot of subd districts in them is the most is like the the limit for the possible smallest lot would it be like three units on 6,000 square ft that we could we fit that I think I understand what what you're getting at with this question and it it would be it's a little complex and I think the answer is sort of like threading the needle on what we think will give us the best outcome for most parses in the district some would just become non-conforming in the district if you get what I'm saying like uh in one one municipality is a more concrete example they wanted the larger uh minimum lot size and the lot lots that were under let's say 70,000 ft became non-conforming because only 50,000 ft a similar thing may happen here uh or you know if you just get too nuanced with making too many subd districts with too many controls it won't be allowed uh one District would have to be half the size one subd District would have to S half the size of the total 3A compliant District if that makes sense because what they don't want is spots owning a bunch of areas around town um that or wants to feel like a district or a neighborhood I would say my my my closest analogy to it would be the nor Grove off Reservoir Street where that's mostly 5,000 foot parcels and at two units per 5,000 foot parcel that's MBT the it has the number of units but it doesn't have multi family so The Next Step Up would be like three units on 6,000 square feet and if we made a district that had that that requirement then it would fit the standards we already have like you know 50 feet of of Frontage enough parking and it's three stories high possible and residentials aren't already if that's if that's sort of the way we could take it we could do like a Triple Decker which is already sort of a Massachusetts style of architecture it's not many of those in Norton but so yeah I mean if there's a way we can put a break at three or four units as opposed to allowing it to be an unlimited amount of units I think that might be more fitting I I think most of the time we prefer to see Triple Deckers as opposed to 24 or 48 or 70 unit buildings I'm not sure how far we want to if we're going to put the district anywhere else in town other than right next to Tweeter Center we might want a variety of building sizes okay there are other controls you could explore there sort of you you AUD some is even a height a height limit on buildings for example that that's totally allowed under uh writing your own 3A guidelines some towns don't have the fire equipment for example that would make it easy to deal with a larger building or you know things like that so there's a there's a range of controls we could explore and present to you and um some options chair can I yes please add something um so one of the things I'm glad Rob's bringing this up because one of the things we could look at as well to get to Steve's Point too is look at our use table for residential units and essentially my recollection I haven't gone back and dived into it but my recollection was we really just have a category multif family this could be an opportunity for us to create new uses use categories for housing like a Triple Decker like sads small apartments there's there's something out there called missing middle housing and we could look at that and start introducing those those types of Housing and tie that to some density of some sort I think that could could you know we could you know it could help us place where the appropriate styles of H or the types of Housing and the densities it might give us a little bit more give us some more more tools in the tool box rather than you know the few choices that we currently have on our zoning bylaw would that need to be some we look if you scroll down to the zoning mechanisms considerations section I know that there's discussion about what is this a base zone is it an overlay is it a smart growth overlay if it's an overlay District that's not necessarily something that we would be adding to our use tables it would probably be something that that be if we made it a base Zone correct Paul that would be the it would we did it as a base Zone there's a benefit if we were looking at it as an overlay which is like in the Mansfield area um there's a lot of commercial land up there which um you know we we want to talk with you all later about do we still want to have an opportunity to preserve the right for a property owner to develop commercial if we do this as a a new zoning District we might be removing commercial land from our inventory so there's tradeoffs I don't know yet what what now we have to work our team has to work together to figure that out um and what you know what trade we want to be able to present to you the trade-offs of whatever options we come up with perspective uh over the past last year or so I've come up with some constrict uh when can we actually like have like good sit down meeting to go over the potential of how to design this sort of this District like like where could I show my own I know we have a zoning recodification coming up but if we want to talk specifically about the MBTA um I I'm not sure where I present that because that's not in our charts yet so one again I'm I'm still pretty new coming back but that's a great question and and maybe one of the answers maybe an answer to that is is few years ago when we were developing The Village Center Corp we actually had a working group with the combination of the planning board and U zba in fact Allen was the zba rep who helped out and that's uh so that but that working group met prior to the full planning board so what the benefit of that was was we we Workshop workshopped it made a number of edits and you know by the time we got it to the full board um the you know it was pretty well flushed out and the full board made fewer very few changes from that point so we could be thinking about it in terms of of the um a working group and in fact one thing that's important um is we need M me uh and and our and and serpent we need to come up with a time frame because this does need to be adopted by the end of the year and has to go to town meeting has to go to the board before that so we need to start soon coming up with some time frames and this is this will be important decision to figure out in the time frame do we have a working group and set aside some time for that group so um you know again we're I'm kind of going on the fly right now but that what I think that was successful few years ago when we did it for the Village Center Corp and it might be something we want to do again and that would be an opportunity for you to weigh in okay yeah because we are doing a recodification right now and again I I started with the town right right before you took off for a little while glad you're back actually but uh I reflected on the work you did and I used that as sort of a measure of what could be done and that that's what I kind of use that as a way to how far can we push new districts what do we need what do we need for Over Districts I know I've been trying to study up on it as best I can so like some sort of uh my only other two cents at this point would I was always looking at this like an overlay District would be the most sensible thing to do I don't think a new base zone is going to work for us in my opinion I think it would be the cleanest way to to not only just professional opinion there all the ways will work but I agree it would be a clean way to conceptualize this and a clean way to present it to the public in a way that's digestable and understandable and just from a I don't think that this board has looked at 40 RS previously [Music] um obviously I'm sure there's eight levels of nuance to that but um the difference between that and a local overlay District being in a couple of points yeah of course uh the 40R and and Paul please if uh if you want to jump in any this because it's very chance PA May know a little more about these than I do uh they they're really a readymade district the main one of the main things is you could I think in the context of 3A have actually 20% Shi because that's the the built-in boiler plate number so that would be one of the main advantages is that you can have that higher Shi number provide housing again at a variety of price points and more for people in need um it comes at sort of readymade densities it's sort of a boilerplate district and they do you do get uh cash payments from the common like midle borrow has used some payments from this to build a playground I believe so so there are obvious benefits the con and again this is where I think Paul would really know a little more than me have been on the ground I've helped out with a handful of these but Paul has seen through the runway is very long there's a lot there are other requirements to to work with the approval agencies for a four yards Smart Road District so you have to meet certain uh philosophical smart growth sort of criteria that that it's connecting to all the things with smartphones I think close to Transit would be a pretty good indicator of of that it has a chance of success but um yeah that there's build outs that you have to do that are separate and distinct from just complying with 3A you have to comply with the 40R program so that that puts another onerous set of sort of criteria on this so Pros is kind of readymade boiler plate gives you a little higher subsidizes get we do with a district like this and uh I'll join the choir people that are appreciative of Paul being here I think the point you brought up about missing middle housing is a great one because so many people who need housing at a variety of price points not just on the subsidized side but naturally curent can do that but yeah it gives us a little way to get get some of that stuff but again at a Cost U and Sher if I could just add one thing to this too with the 40R and I was working on one in my last position um this would have been a great tool for us to consider for this and I wish two years ago when I left that I had brought this up but I didn't know as much about 40 Ys back then the challenge is timing again we We Know by Statute we have to get this adopted by the end of December with a 40R we could never meet that uh for example as part of the 40R adoption process before it goes to town meeting we would have to send all of our material up to the state and they get four months to review it and then get back to us and it and it's actually even can be longer than that because if you submit let's say on May F May 2nd they're going to backend it to the end of May anyway and then count from from that point and they have 120 days and you know we could ask for an expedited review but you know we can't count on it and besides that there is with 40 yards which is a great tool and I think it's something we should be thinking about down the road for another part of of town um there's just a lot of that application that the state submits because they give the towns funding there's a lot of calculations that have to go in that we don't have to do here but a 40R again is a great tool as Rob mentioned the town actually gets funding for eligible affordable housing units and then when the units actually get built we get additional money plus with a 40R you actually have design standards that you can put in and you know which can result in a better project we don't have those here so it it's just we're not going to get to there's no way we would get to December with 40R I think that's a fair point and and I think characterized perfectly we could very well ask for an exper review we have at sered some of those relationships the review process for a 3A compliance is 90 days so know uh Steve your question like what's the time frame you know we want to get something there we're working backwards from the warrant so we do want to move pretty soon on this stuff um we want to be thinking about one or in the case we did do 40R if we thought we wanted we were really committed to that want to do it one or both of those review time frames we want to work with inside uh for something like this so it sounds like a local overlay District is our path forward there for the large scale mechanism and then it turns into that the next question of other things we should considered question terms of yeah have to uh answer today if you want some time to ruminate on them it's a good working group thing or we could present a BW you could be like yes no yes no to them as you thought of it but those questions are the big ones I think we it's great that we can walk away today with thoughts on on the bigger thing like you mentioned yeah I mean I think should it have an affordable component that feels like a yes in big bold letters otherwise we're going to put ourselves under 10% super fast um even though we're treading water with a 10% um local zoning requirement and then yeah some of the stuff I feel like it's probably pretty straightforward but the rest of it we may need to go into a little more detail on our end did any numbers of the board have any additional comments on either the selection of the proposed District Andor the path forward with the local overlay I think I think the overlay is the right way to go about it it seems fitting and we can change where it's located in the future how we want to move it around if we want to spread it and just you we not and I would definitely like to focus on the mix use aspect of it all yeah just with the uh the local overlay I think that makes sense and I like the idea of it being in the in the north there near Mansfield and maybe we just when we look at how we want to Define this particular overlay maybe we just usually we can out of the 40R just so you know we we get an idea what what that looks like and so if we decide that this makes sense for a future project we already have an idea what it looks like that's a great Point too I think uh one of the things that we've asked the Commonwealth about uh and Paul you brought the design standards we could you design guidelines you know it's something maybe we submit a One-Stop Flor down the road or something like that because I don't believe that those would have to be adopted at to meeting I think those are a site plan review tool and so um we could pursue those after we adopt the district for example if it's something ER to point we want to look at adopting some of that 40R type stuff okay anyone else okay I'm not hearing anything um Mr K is there anything else that you wanted from the board this evening or have we given you enough for your next steps um if you guys are comfortable um with what I have in my notes uh with us proceeding with yes to local overlay uh we'll write up our first sort of idea of this with an inclusionary component we will explore mixed use as a a use alongside it and looking at how we can incorporate other components of a 40R that sounds good to you all we can we can run with that sounds good to me I think everybody's looking at the camera and nobody's saying no so I think we're good to go there and uh I heard some stuff about a working group um we are happy to to accommodate that and work that into our process we welcome it completely so however is best for you all you know um to to to set that up we can we can integrate that into our process okay yeah I think that's something that we may explore within the board and then we would um reach out to you through um Brian or Paul to that effect great just dive into nitty-gritty of uh all the design standards and all of those things sounds great to me thank you okay thank you very much everybody from sured than guys have a good night okay um we do have one more item on our agenda for which is execution decisions I'm going to push that one to the end unless anybody has any objections um since we do have two other applicants who are joining us on the call this evening um the first one is an anr endorsement for anr -5 for 192 tunon Avenue the applicant is Michael Dean and I believe I do see him on the on the zoom call here um so Mr Dean thank you for joining us um if you could please just give us uh just a narrative of what you're looking to do here um and we can evaluate this anr application um you should have the ability to share your screen otherwise um Brian I'm not sure if you wanted to pull up um the plans for this uh yeah if you want me to share my screen that's fine if I have the ability you should have the ability with the uh the green share button with the arrow there okay want me to do a triangle go for it do you see my screen not yet there we go it's coming there we go okay we see it thank you is that back over here I don't see it though no we do see it um can you see my point up yes okay all right so thank you thanks for that my name is Mike Dean with DNL Design Group uh ad you had just mentioned there's an anr in front of the planning board tonight it is referred to as 192 ta naav the planning board may remember this project it is located ta naav is located here and old taon in this area here so like I said the planable may remember the project are in early 2023 when there was a special permit submitted to the planning board for this pel and earlier than that uh in May of 2022 that's what's up here now labeled as first anr plan you can see that there this was approved before we got involved with the project um and you can see that's the that's the creation of the four lots lots one two three and four frage taunt n and old T nav signed and approved in May of 2022 that plan was essentially was the Genesis so that's what was behind the special permit that was submitted to the plan and board and ran through early 2023 so I'll just move to the current anr at this point um do I have to hit share screen again or can you see that move for you you're good okay perfect thank you so as you can see down here that's what's that's what's in front of the board tonight down this area I have it labeled current anr obviously the my lab doesn't have that on there you can see that's similar to Lots one two three and four fronting on taunt n and old taunt n and you can see how they're configured so as I had mentioned the anr the first anr set up the four Lots we submitted a special permit to the planning board went through that process address carment concerns uh for that special permit the special permit was issued in 2023 so this is essentially cleanup work that that adjusts these property lines to meet what was approved through the design and approval process of the special permit um the zoning things of that nature were reviewed through that process the lots have adequate Frontage adequate area meets the zoning requirements we're just cleaning up the property lines to to meet the the approved special permit that was issued by the board okay we submitted it back in I believe the 21st of last month so okay and we there wasn't a site plan that delineated these lot lines as part of that special permit yeah stay has a special yeah St a plan that yeah that morphed into just these are the property lines so this is an anr plan approval not required just showing the property lines that meor the special permit plan that was approved okay we're just looping back and cleaning that up it should have been done sooner but this is where we're at so okay would you like to see the site plan that was approved I have that as well but this is like I said is this an approval not required it meets The Zone in but I can certainly show you here's the design plan that was approved here there is there same thing that just shows the houses the grading the drainage the the driveways things of that nature but that's what that looks much more familiar okay yeah so so like I says the anr you don't show all the other stuff the other information on them you don't show topography the wetlands well you show the wetlands in this case for the AI because it's a zoning requirement but so that's the approved plan there that's the special permit okay was based off of and then this is the current anr here okay that makes more sense okay I was trying to I think the note at the top of lot two made me think that we needed to have access to that area of the lot for um poor residents but clearly that's a very narrow uh throughway there yes so here yeah so here is the design plan the house is shown up here for lot too house here house here house back in this area and if you go back to the first anr that I would call the first anr yeah same thing the house is up front on lot two where the existing house is you see my cursor here so never never to access back there even in the first scenario lot one was always going to be chunked out and access back here lot three is up front and lot four is up front okay that makes more sense now I apologize for uh my lack of brain power earlier when I was looking at this nope explain it absolutely any members have any additional questions uh from Mr Jean here this [Music] evening I I got a quick question um that that skinny connection between the two lots how wide is that it's just over 12 just over 12 feet okay and this also shows the remaining land in the back being heed over to the town which that actually says it on this plan because that was one of the criterias or the special Perman conditions versus the original anr it just said that it was a separate parel not a building lot due to no Frontage but at that point you didn't that that anr didn't go through any special permit so this this directs you know this TI makes it a little tighter in my opinion yeah and this was the plan that we settled on as opposed to doing something like a larger subdivision using the entire lot oh yeah we went through that whole process with all the you know this was there was some minor adjustments to these property lines obviously the the the adjustments were in this area here you know one and two a little bit of three but um that was that was um yeah that was all taken into consideration and when we went through the special perit we had to prove the alternative analysis had to call the sack Road things of that nature would have used up a little bit more land for the lot areas if you built the road Etc we went through that whole process yeah all in line with the master plan things of all that nature okay I get another question real quick um the the part of the the Frontage that goes along old taav uh there's a historic rock wall is that already removed is that being removed no that's not going to be touched that was one of the that was one of the comments that came early on in the special permit process in which we adjusted with a common driveway uh added that into the special permit so there were two special permits one for the for the uh type of drillings that were being proposed and the common driveway and that was one of the concerns of the abuts and then I think that resonated with the planning board as well through the special permit and that wall is not going to be touched other than the small section where they where it was required to Loop the water line awesome I think there was a historic Tree in that with this site plan as well if I'm remembering correctly well there was some discussions about a tree and where it was that there's a dead one out there over near the uh Carman driveway area and there was some discussion even before I think um the pre previous planner wanted some documentation before officially signing and have or having the planning board officially signed the the special permit uh the the the trees that the trees along that wall are not going to be clear but you know so I don't know about the historical tree but I do remember there was one where it was if it if it was in the right way or not then it needed an additional permit because it was a Scenic Road I believe but yeah there was a Scenic Road tree yeah thing where the we had to notice on the tree I believe for uh yes for the BW yes that was uh and it had to be advertised and everything that's for it to be remove that was that dead tree yeah okay any additional comments questions concerns from members of the board related to the approval not required that's in front of us i' make a motion to endorse anr five second okay we have a motion to endorse by an and a second from La any further discussion okay I will go through the members here for a vote uh Alan I will start with you yes Steve yes Laura Wayne Jim yes did I miss anybody Eric Eric I missed you miss me yes and I will vote Yes as well the zoom the gallery shrunk on me so I was scrolling through and I missed it I apologize can we sign this next week's meeting or do we have to come by and sign it um let me see um Mr din is there any land transactions that you're looking to have this recorded at the registry in the next week or so or not not a tight timeline right now we are on a tight timeline but I not sure a week matters they're trying to get some finance and then some land things going because like I said we should I should done this earlier but if you can't do it until next week what am I going to do but if you could swing by and sign it it' be great I think the other a anr plan only had one signature on it I think if I remember correct yeah it's um I think that is yes because uh the the remnants of um some of our covid error rules for the board is the chair is a single signer yeah um okay I thought something else because sometimes uh the town planner can sign a and our plans but whatever whatever you guys that's my John Hancock unfortunately um I I will I will say that um for members if we have the ability to swing by town hall and sign this uh once we get to four uh we can get it over to Mr Dean he can get it filed with the registry um if we are not able to do that by the uh we all know we'll see each other next week so we'll do what we can to Speed it along thank you I appreciate that okay with that one out of the way um thank you very much um next item on our agenda is a discussion with uh conine this is an advance of town meeting um discussing a road acceptance um so just from a order operation standpoint here um our board is discussing it and then it would go to the select board for placement on for a discussion at town meeting Brian is that correct from uh your perspective in terms of the process here yes uh we're going to send a recommendation to the select Board and they'll have a meeting on it prior to town meeting thank you uh so I see we have Jeff O'Neil here from com um so Jeff if you want to just give it just a um a brief overview of what you're looking for um sure for us at this stage thank you so uh to to correct what you and to elaborate what you're saying but you you are correct we are seeking what's turned a non-binding recommendation from the planning board uh and based on if that was approved and endorsed by you folks then that would allow the select board to adopt what's called an order of layout and once the order of layout is approved by the select board then it's on the town meeting uh number either item number 21 and number 22 at the May town meeting boote so this is for acceptance of the Leonard Street uh which we went over back at the October 24th meeting when the de definitive subdivision plan was approved um and you voted towards accept of the street and release of the bond so the only thing that's changed since then is the corrected terminology by Town Council as well as we added the ter the word North on the end of Leonard Street so there's a clear delineation between the rest of Leonard Street so that's what's on the plan in front of you and you should have the myars uh from John Helman available um for Signature uh if approved okay and again this is just going back this is going north from Leonard Street toward the um the eale building and then the other building at the end of the cuac which is not yet been that that is correct so here's the lonard street going back there's four Lots uh lot one on the left lot two which is is the Yale uh lot three which is building 12 and then lot four so that is just that street and that's why it's termed Leonard Street North okay and just from a point of information the differentiation between this being officially accepted as a street versus a driveway to those two buildings uh the differentiation there would be specifically from what from your perspective uh well as an accepted Street when we started off the process um would be maintained by the town for the benefit of the Yale folks and for the building 12 okay and was designed towards the uh standards of the roadway through the process and went through all the extensive uh inspections with all the various uh Department boards uh overseeing and managing the process and in addition we still have the warranty that's in place on the roadway so that uh ends Sometime Late fall but that's in place to oversee and maintain any issues that may arise okay thank you I guess one of my first questions Tim would be do we have that documentation from town staff saying just what Jeff just said in fact the road has been constructed and it is paved correctly not paved with candy canes exactly um all that information has been submitted to every one of the department boards within the town so DPW uh sewer water uh everyone else that was involved I guess I'm just saying do we have something from State specifically specifically Highway saying yes okay chair we emailed Highway this afternoon but we haven't heard back from them okay do keep in mind this is a recom you're making a recommendation to the select board um can I ask related to This I Know This was um there was a bond I believe on this was the bond was Bond Paul um we had a meeting in October 2 forth in front of you folks here at the planning board so at that meeting the definitive subdivision plan was approved um you folks voted to move towards the acceptance of the street at that meeting and release of the uh $2 million Bond so all of that was done at that meeting on October 24th 2023 so to clean up what we're doing tonight was kind of a I guess a cleanup by Town Council that recommended the non-binding recommendation in the process to get this to the select board in order for them to get it to the town warrant yeah thank you Jee um Alan to your point I think that I don't think that we're there's not necessarily dispute that the road exists and the road has been completed but just to from a tying up the file perspective are you I'm fine with forward on a conditional basis no abolutely I just anytime we have an applicant or whatever that says yes I went to that town Bo you know I just yeah I trust nobody I'm sorry yeah and I know we've gone back and forth with even with uh the permitting softwares that we've had in place over the past 12 months um so that may also play a role in that so I guess what what is the motion we're looking to make here tonight to endorse The Proposal for the select board um I believe that would be the the motion there so Brian or part you can okay never mind you can correct me if I'm wrong on that motion before I accept it second inter was that the correct action was the motion to endorse yes yeah okay so we have a motion and a second um is there any further discussion on the motion to endorse okay hearing none I will go through everybody for a vote I apologize you have moved around on my screen so it's just going to be a little bit of chaos here in terms of who I call on first so Steve I will start with you yes Alan yes wayes yes Jim yes Eric yes [Music] Laura and I will vote Yes um and I believe I got everybody this time without skipping anybody okay thank you appreciate thank you very much Jeff yeah have a good evening you too we need to come by and sign this is that what I understood there also yes yes so when you come for the anr come for the for the uh roadway acceptance we have them for one and draw Paul a gift on his new desk or old desk yes okay uh final item on our agenda this evening um is execution of conditions um again this is for SP 20381 and SP R-3 for 300 South Washington Street um Brian emailed out the draft decision um for us last week along with the agenda for this session um has everybody had a chance to review it do we have questions comments concerns have one question I thought our condition um with standard conditions and then Landscape and Lighting plan being submitted prior to construction I also had in my notes that um St Water Management permit was required and I didn't see it but maybe it doesn't need to be here yeah I just took it from my notes I didn't have storm water so um I just want the double check but I can add storm water in the yeah we do have that the Building Commissioner Andor conservation director would observe the construction of the management system at two different points obviously the storm water is required but yeah I think the reason was because they hadn't gone to conservation yet so kind of subject to conservation approving them which would give them the storm water management permit okay so that would be prior to [Music] constructions I would think so yes [Music] anything else from everybody anybody as it relates to this decision okay I don't think we have anything further um if anybody would like to call for a motion just to vote to approve this that's fine otherwise I would consider it completed and ready for Laura's signature do you want a motion sorry I think it may be Overkill but if anybody wants to make one obviously I would recognize it okay if nobody else feels it's necessary then I guess we would move ahead um that is the final item on our agenda this evening relatively short and sweet but this is also an hour that we do not have on our next agenda uh which has a significant number of additional items to discuss um is there anything else anybody wanted to discuss in the open session this evening motion of Adin seconded we have a motion in a second is there any further discussion hearing none I'll go through the RO one more time yes Jim yes Eric yes Steve yes La yes and I will vote yes thank you very much everybody good night good night everyone have a good night see you everybody next week thanks Tim bye