It is 5:30 and I'd like to call uh a meeting with the board of assessors for this Wednesday, March 18th, 2026. >> Call to order present. >> Denise Ellis, director of assessing
Mike Bone, clerk, member Lucas Ray, and myself, chair Richard. Um Denise, would you like to start off? >> Sure. We have uh the meeting minutes from February 18th.
>> Did everyone get a chance to uh review these? >> Yeah, the final. >> Okay, that is I did as well. Okay, sure. We're all in agreement that this format is good. >> This format. Okay.
All right. Excellent. and all right. >> Okay, we have vendor bills. >> You make the best salary. >> And on the vendor bills, we have um uh fees for the Bristol County
Association, KP Law. I have a conference to go to and W Mason. >> Okay. And this is the Bristol County Assistance Association. >> Yes. Is that an annual membership? >> It's an annual membership for the for the three office people.
>> Okay. Several days. >> And what do they do they have quarterly meetings or is it just more shared data? >> Um they just you know they might have classes here or there or they might have a meeting >> there. There's no like over association
whenever something comes up. >> Yeah. >> Probably twice a year maybe. >> Okay. and uh KP Law that was >> that's TP cases. >> Yep. And
Mass Association. >> That's a conference next month. >> Where's that? >> It's a spring conference. Um is that >> Lake Pearl Can? Yeah. >> Is that just yourself? >> Yeah. Yeah.
We're just going to go over there's a bunch of things coming up. >> So, we have every year we have a spring conference, a summer conference, and a winter conference. >> All right. Good. All right. Thank you.
>> Something bad is coming up. >> All right. >> And this is a vetamin payoff. Um, so I'm going to pay that off. >> Okay. And this has been all recorded. >> Uh yeah. So that one's been paying that
one off. >> Okay. So Okay. So there you go. >> This is for the uh sewer on West M. >> Um I believe so. Yep. West M. >> Okay. Just Okay. >> Yep.
I don't have the monthly list. I think you guys might have to come by, I think. >> Is it not out yet? >> Um I I think she'll have to print it. >> We'll get that printed for tomorrow. >> All right. >> I'll send you guys an email tomorrow. We
can probably do it next Oh, we can just put do it to the next meeting. >> We can probably just do it for the next meeting. >> Okay. >> Um I think that'll be fine. >> Return plates and everything. >> Yeah, that's all it is. All the abatements and everything. We can just wait on that one. >> Kelly was on vacation. She probably
forgot to do it. Okay. Um so now we have So these are omitted and revised uh bills. So one of them was um it was an exempt property that came out of exempt. Mhm. >> So, we have to send them a bill.
>> Um, so I calculated the amount and they already have this, but you guys just now we have to commit this um so it goes um to the one to the budget and all that. So, that's one of them. The paperwork's on the back. It tells you what it is. They wrote and then the other one is
actually that's Norton Rams. That's the one that from the last meeting we abated the commercial land because they had to combine everything. and then we had to put it onto another lot. So that was the letter we sent out for the bill for the new lot. So now we
have to commit it. So this these commitments will go to the tax collector. >> So is it now one one bill? >> So on this one Yeah. So what it was um they were going to put a development in. They had the street then it got rescended cuz it was too light. It was
out there for too long and then they changed the zoning. So all those lots had to go back into one lot. So we put it on the other lot that we thought that they owned that they wanted it on there, but they didn't. They wanted on a different one. So we had to fix it all. So >> this is all commercial property where they are.
>> Yeah. Yep. >> Okay. All >> way down towards >> So does that get captured? >> Um yeah, it's already in there. So, it's already gone. Yeah, that's commercial. Um,
this has to go I also have to put this on the gateway for the state so that they know that it's there and then once we start doing all the numbers, it'll be there for them. And so, that's that one. And this one here was the exempt to the buildable
property. I think it used to be um a home and then they sold like a um >> that's a halfway house type of thing. Maybe >> that's a residential neighborhood. >> It's a it's a residential neighborhood. >> It's off Oak Street. Correct. >> Y
>> I think >> it was a group home. It was a group home. >> Okay. >> In those and they sold that. So, and they were exempt group homes. So, now we're going to build them and then we build them by how many days that they have that property for the year. what's left in the year. >> So it converted from group home to a
single family residence. >> Yeah. So it was a single family, then it was a group home that goes into exempt and then they no longer have the group home. They sold it. So now it comes back out of exempt into billable. >> Okay. >> Then we have to figure out how much the bill would be for the the rest of the
year that they have it. >> I think we'll be discussing later on the home next door as well. Number eight. The what one? >> The base number eight. >> Oh. Oh, yeah. That's in here.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. Who was the purchase of this property? Do you know? >> Um, whoever that person is that they bought it over near the letter, too.
off the top of my head. >> The Matson's. >> No idea there was a group home there. >> You never know this group. This group homes all over town. You wouldn't even know it. Yeah, we probably have I can think of four or five off the top of my head.
>> There's a brand new one over on Baker. It's a little tiny street right over there. Brand new, beautiful home. Okay. Okay. Oh, one more thing. Um, this one here is um this was a chapter land that you guys
approved last week, last meeting. And this is just a paperwork um for it just to approve file and we'll send that out to the owner.
Okay, vaguely remember that one just >> this is just the paperwork from a followup followup, >> right? Oh, we could do these two too. I guess these ones um
are denials from These are just the letters that go out the denials that you guys did at the last meeting. >> At the last meeting. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I remember this. >> What's the address on those? Uh, this
one's 136 North Washington. >> Residential. >> Uh, yeah. Yep. And 107 South Washington. >> They're both residential. >> Yep. >> These are for the exemptions.
These denials. >> So, this I believe my memory serves. This was the one where the title >> was uh >> in a trust. >> The aunt, the mother. >> Oh, right. >> The mother and the daughter.
>> The trust. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. They never came back. >> They never >> um No, I guess not. >> Was there a letter sent to them
explaining the reason for denial? that there was an issue with the trust and not the actual evaluation. >> They they will get all that. So that's just the main letter and then she'll I'm not sure what it says in there, but she'll definitely have that. Sometimes we'll put send a second letter with that explaining why.
So I'll make sure she's doing that. >> Got instructions on. >> Okay. We already did that land classification. Did we just do that? >> Which one? >> The notice of action for the >> Yeah, I signed that. Yep. So, everything's been signed that we have.
So that's now we have to go into executive session for unless you guys have something else to talk about >> the exemptions and abatements. >> Yeah. Did you guys >> So one thing I want to do is with the property cards because I have a lot of people calling you know reaching out to
me. They don't know how to read a property card. >> Yep. >> The codes. So I didn't see anywhere on the Norton website where you can where it shows what the codes are you know. So, you know, for example, a garage, you know, G, whatever, whatever the code is,
it should there should be some sort of explanation to the residents. So, when they read their property cards, they don't have to call the assessor's office and say, "What is this code?" You know what I mean? So, there's there's probably a hundred codes on a property card and you know, even even I'm having
trouble reading some of them like what is that? I don't know what the code is. It should be somewhere on the assessor's website where you can see property card codes and what they what they mean. so that people can >> you know read read through the >> Y >> and even even the state website doesn't have
>> you know what the code >> Yeah. Cuz you know what the reason why the state doesn't is every software company has similar but different codes. That's probably why they don't have it on the state website >> like like vision has certain codes like instead of a USF they use
I don't know second story I forget I forget what they used but it was like FHS or something but there's different codes depending on the software that you use >> for the property itself like the 130 versus 102 those >> state yeah that's all state regulated but it's just the codes itself like what we'll use for a second story like BAS
that's standard through everybody but like the second story might be slightly be different. >> So, yeah, we can do that. We can I can put something together for that. >> The other question I got is on the commercial real estate cuz I went in to look at these abatements and, you know, I think, you know, I'm still going to
need my time. I went in there last um two weeks ago and I was given maybe, you know, eight of them and I know I know there's more than that. So, >> yeah, they weren't they weren't ready. That's why I didn't have any more. So, the commercial, you know, I'd like to know how we're valuing commercial
property. You know, according to the state, there's three ways to value it. And I'm just wondering how Norton is valuing commercial real estate cuz what I'm seeing in Norton is some of these newer properties that we're um putting up, you know, the sale price is say 35
million and the valuation is 10 million less. There's, you know, there's condos, there's commercial properties, um, which are 10 $15 million less than they sold for. And if you look at the state law, you know, there's three ways to, um,
figure out how you value in commercial real estate. And, um, I actually looked it up today. One's the income approach. You know, the point of list, I think it's called, um, you know, how much money they're taking in in revenue for rents. And the other was a sales comparison which similar to what we do with
residential. >> And then the third was the cost approach like how much it would be to build that building. So I'm just wondering you know when I look at all these commercial properties why they're valued significantly less than what they sold for and you get a 70 million $72 million
property that sold a couple years ago. Why is it valued you know $12 million less than it they actually paid for it? So, >> it's a lot of different reasons for that. Um, they look at all three approaches. Um, depending on what the property is,
um, it's it's very complicated. So, PPA does all that. Um, they're commercial appraisers. That's what they do. Um, and they do look at all the different all the different approaches. Um, it depends what it is. Like for instance,
apartment buildings might be you might see a big sale there, but they'll be valued lower um because you know because of a lot of times they'll purchase a property but they'll say well we're going to make that money up going forward. You know that's a big thing
with them. Um a lot of times it depends on what kind of a lease they have net lease double net triple uh lease. So it all depends on how they're set up >> and how they're validated. So it's very you just can't have a standard way of doing it because every property is completely different.
>> I understand that. But if you're looking at a commercial building that's has 72 units that sold for $70 million for a figure and that valuation is, you know, 10 or 20% less than the sale value. Why aren't we using that same approach for a homeowner that buys a two family or a three family? That's, you know, and why
aren't we looking saying, well, his rental income, you know, if we're comparing, you know, we're not giving a fish the same, we're not holding the same standard for the commercial properties, the residential. >> So, every every commercial property this, we have two forms that we send out every year. We have the forms of list.
Those all go to income properties, you know, like your multifamilies, they'll get the forms of list. Um, as well as the commercial properties, but the commercial properties also give us income and expense um forms that we require. Um, not everybody sends them
in. Um, forms of list, we can't find anybody for not sending those in. The income approach, we do find people for those. Um, it all depends on the information they given us and what's out there. Like I said, commercial properties are so difficult because they're all different. You know, you
have a warehouse that um assessed differently than, you know, apartment buildings, obviously. So, there's all those different >> different things. >> But if we were using a sales comparison approach, we could say the property sold for 30 million, it's worth 30 million.
Sales if we use that approach, which is one of the methods that you can use on commercial real estate. So, I just, you know, I have I have a problem when we have brand new factories going up. They pay $70 million for the factory and that factory then is worth 60 million a year
or two later. You know, that doesn't happen with the residential. With the homeowners and the residential, we always go up. Why are the commercial massive commercial real estate's going down? You know, so we're not knocking down farmland and putting up factories to give them breaks. And I feel like we're giving some significant breaks on
these properties. I haven't seen any commercial properties come down yet. >> There's I can we can go over that one. Oh, there's one in here. There's a few of them in there and that's where I started seeing them, started looking into them why they're so significantly valued less than what we paid what they paid for and it's in the it's in the
several millions and you know when we're having a budget issue in this town and you know money issues, why are we giving these commercial people these commercial buildings such tax breaks? >> It's more complicated than that. It's commercial is a com completely different animal than residential. Um and again it
depends on what their leases are, how they're set up. Um we do look at they do look at all three um approaches to value and it all depends what's going like I said it all depends what's going on. What's their income? You know, you know, what's their vacancy rate? What's the
cap rate that they're using? There's there's just so much involved in it. um you can't use you can't just use um the sales approach. You can't do that with commercial properties. >> So you're saying that the commercial property it's it's assessed really at the value that it's present value. Would
that be all right? Well, if you have 40% vacancy in a 300,000t building, the value of that is not going to be um the same as getting 100% vac.
>> I I agree with that where, you know, you guys say, you know, a plaza that was originally purchased for x amount, was full, and then 10 years later is now got a 40% vacancy, you know, that valuation is going down. I can agree with that. But when you got an apartment building with 75 units and they're all packed and
there's a 5year waiting list to get in and they're getting topofthe line rent, why are those properties going down 10 million $15 million? Clearly the hot, you know, the hot properties, everybody wants to get into them. >> Well, probably one of the factors would be the condition, right? If you go over
>> Yeah, we can go over that one when it comes time. I can explain that one to >> the street. They sold that, a year and a half ago, two years ago. the one um was it uh >> East Maine. >> East Maine. And that was quite a quite a
uh profit from the original. >> Right. And there but there's issues with that that we'll have to go over and I'll explain it to you. >> Okay. All right. >> Eric. >> Yep. All right. Um and anything else before we go into >> I don't think so. >> Executive Mike.
>> Good. >> Okay. Um, what I'd like to do is, uh, adjourn the open meeting, um, and go into move into executive session. Um, we will not be returning to an open meeting. So, uh, do I have a a second to
that? And, um, all in favor? All right. Selfie.